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I'll tell you when. Oh, it's taking long. Hopefully my internet's okay.

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My screen says now live, streaming live on Facebook.

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Oh, we're live. Oh, we're live.

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Okay, hello. Welcome everybody to the Kingdom Economic Masterclass.

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We've had a few technical difficulties, so sorry if we are a little bit late.

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Just to recap what's been happening, we've had people all over the world tune in with us

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and we've been going over, you know, God's heart for finances. We started with your big vision,

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like the God-sized vision and dream that he has for you, and then we talked about

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economic alignment and then economic climate. And so once you've graduated from those things,

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we really want to dive into economic reformation today, and who better to talk than the most

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joyful Bible teacher I know, who is the Pastor Bruce MacDonald. Welcome, welcome.

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Thank you, thank you. So glad to be with you.

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So Bruce has actually written a book on money, so this is perfect for him to speak to us and really

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impart some training and teaching today. And I really would like Bruce to actually pray for us,

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because sometimes you can be taught, but we want to catch it. And for those that are hungry to

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learn, to grow, to really step into everything that God has for you, get ready to receive.

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So Bruce, take it away. Thank you so much. Yeah, I love to pray with you all. It's just a delight

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to be able to have some quality time to talk about this all-important subject. Heavenly Father,

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we just want, aside from inviting each other to participate in this time, we want to invite

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your great Holy Spirit to come. We want to just invite you, Holy Spirit, to

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talk through the words that are shared to help us to understand the important things that you're

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wanting us to know. We thank you, Lord God, that the Bible is a phenomenal

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master text on money stuff. And so we just pray that we're open a little bit more today,

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we'll understand a little bit more today, we'll get more excited about what the plans that you

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have for each one of us in regard to economics. So we just commit this time to you and one another

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to you in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. Okay, so Bruce, what is your money story?

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And what got you involved in writing this book? What can you impart to us today? I want you just

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to release the fire and everything that you've learned so that we can go for it too. Thank you

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so much for the invitation. When you ask a question like that, it's always a bit of a challenge to

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know where should I begin. But I think for me that the thing that will help people most is to start

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from 1987, a long time ago. But in 1987, a number of interesting things happened in New Zealand.

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For me personally, the fact that New Zealand won the very first Rugby World Cup, that was big.

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The second thing was that I'm from the Bay of Plenty and there was a significant earthquake

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down in that part of New Zealand at that time and really rocked all of our world. In fact,

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we used to talk a lot about it until Christchurch had their earthquake. Now we don't talk about

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ours anymore. But the third thing that happened is that there was an economic recession.

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And the number one effect in New Zealand that I was conscious of was that interest rates

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just soared. I had people in my church, in fact I think my wife and I, our first mortgage,

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we were paying 16.5% interest. And I had people in my church with second mortgages of 22%.

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Now if you could try and translate that into today, in Auckland city there would be hundreds

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of families who would become insolvent within weeks if they were paying that level of interest

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on their mortgages. And even though it wasn't exactly like that in 1987, the pain in New Zealand

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was real. But you know, Zania, it was interesting because I was just a young pastor

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and our church was in an incredible season. We were seeing people become Christians all the time

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and we were baptizing people all the time. And I guess I didn't really focus until one of my elders

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came to me and he said, Bruce, you do realize that our people are really hurting, don't you?

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And I guess it's

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my attention. So I started to really make it a matter of prayer. At that time, I was given a

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series of tapes by a man by the name of Larry Lee. If people are taking notes today, they should write

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that name down. And he put a series on the Lord's Prayer. And of course, when you get to the third

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part of the Lord's Prayer, it's give us this day our daily bread. And I'd always prayed that prayer

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as a sort of religious formula. I always thought it was a prayer of desperation. You know, if you're

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short of money, then you cry out to God, give us this day our daily bread. But the way Larry taught

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it, different to anything I'd ever heard. And he taught it that it was literally put your foot

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down. It was a demanding prayer. It was kind of give us this day our daily bread. It wasn't begging

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God. It was a prayer of demand, of command. I'd never heard of that. And the point that he made

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was this, and it was a really good point. He says, do we believe that God wants us to have our daily

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bread? I'd say yes. Second question, do we want to receive our daily bread? Yes. So if God

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wants to give it, we want to receive it. Where's the problem? And he pointed out that the problem

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is that there's a thief. The devil is a thief. And so he steals. And so it's not a case of us

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begging God. It's a case of us demanding from the evil one that we receive what God has for us.

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Well, I began to pray that on a daily basis. And I want to say I was aggressive. I was aggressive.

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And I suppose about three months went past with me praying, give us this day our daily bread,

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putting my foot down. And this one particular morning, I need to just describe it as honestly

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as I can. All of a sudden, there was just like this presence came down. It came down from the

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ceiling and it just came right over me. And in moments like that, you can almost think any word

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I'm going to say now is going to be the wrong word. So I just went silent. And I heard the voice

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of God say to me, enough, Bruce, I heard you. I just went off to church buzzing because I really

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felt I'd heard God. And about 10 o'clock in the morning, one of the ladies in the church came in

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and she asked me how I was. I said, I'm brilliant. I'm absolutely fabulous. And she said, well, why?

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And I said, well, I had this incredible time of prayer this morning. So anyway, she said,

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what were you praying for? And I said, look, I was praying about the mortgages of people in the

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church. I was praying about the economic system in our country and the difficulty that so many

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families are in. Well, she was angry. She kind of looked at the ceiling, gave this kind of little

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look. And then she said, it's time, isn't it, father? And I said, oh, time for what? And so

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she said, it's time for me to tell you something. I've been praying about it and I think God has

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given me an answer. So I said, well, you better tell me because I don't know what the answer is.

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And she began to unpackage this idea. And I won't go into it now because our time is relatively

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limited to say that the idea that she gave me was the seed for Liberty Trust. And for those who may

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be listening who don't know what Liberty Trust is, it's a charitable trust that teaches Bible

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principles of finance. And then it has a model of how that might look like by having created a

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community of interest who all contribute money into a common pool. And then as the pool builds

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up, we refinance people's loans on their homes, their mortgages, interest-free. So as at two weeks

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ago, we finally loaned out, we got over the top of $60 million New Zealand loan, interest-free.

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And we have a trust fund now of $20 million, which all it does is just refinance. It just

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goes around in a big circle. It gives interest-free loans, people repay those loans and it goes out.

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And so, you know, here we are a little over 30 years down the track, we've loaned $60 million.

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Within 10 years, it will be, no, sorry, within 20 years, it will be more like $100 million

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loaned interest-free to New Zealand families, New Zealand churches to help them to own property and

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to be debt-free. So it's a pretty, it's been a really exciting journey as you can imagine.

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And it's stimulated me to learn a whole lot of stuff about how much the Bible is a financial book.

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Yeah. And so people can learn more about on the Liberty Trust website.

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Yeah, absolutely. If people want to go to the website, just www.libertytrust.org.nz,

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it would answer all the questions. And my goodness, you know,

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Zalia, wouldn't it be great if somebody from Australia were listening and they started one?

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Wouldn't it be great if somebody from Africa would start? We are all about multiplication.

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So we've been talking about, you know, aligning your heart with

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that revelation of prayer. And then you started aligning with that, with what God wanted.

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And that the testing process, there must have been a testing process where God was like,

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I heard you, I see you're faithful. And then you step into reformation, which is like you

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started creating opportunities for others. Can you speak more on kind of the motivation,

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the heart around reformation and creating opportunities for others and why our money

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isn't just for us and our families, but for the wider kingdom and the world impact?

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Yeah, I would so love to talk about that. I just think that, you know, when we see something in

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God's word, when it comes alive to us, one of the questions I think we should always be asking is,

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Lord, I can see this. What can't I see? What haven't I seen? And one of the things that I'm,

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no, just two or three things I think I'd just like to drop into people's ears. Number one,

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there are around about 500 verses in the Bible on prayer, about 500. There are around about

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350 verses on faith. Now, two really important topics. But on the area of money, there's around

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about 2,350 verses. It's a major Bible theme. And often Christians shy away from talking about

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money. Absolutely. And often because of we've misquoted a scripture and we say money is the

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root of all evil. The Bible never says that. The Bible says the love of money is the root of all

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evil. But you know, we need to understand that while money is a terrible master, it is a

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wonderful servant. It's supposed to serve us. It's supposed to serve our destiny. It's supposed

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to serve our future. It's supposed to serve our family. And we need to teach it to serve us.

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Love it. So you mentioned that I've written a book. It probably is more, if I'm being more honest,

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it's probably a booklet. It's short. And I wrote it short because it's written for young people

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because it's kind of, you know, Zania, it's kind of the book, the things that I wish somebody had

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told me when I was younger. And it's called The Four Purposes for Money. Yeah, and I think

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that would be cool for us to all, you know, invest in ourselves by getting a booklet that's simple

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because then you can teach those same things to other people. Yes, that's certainly been my

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dream. I always pray that if somebody reads the book, the next time they hear it taught, it's

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because they're teaching it. Yeah, well, you're here for such a time as this. And I love that you

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touched on the recession of the, and when the interest rates, you know, were rising. And,

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you know, we are in unsure, uncertain times at the moment. And maybe that was like a little

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kind of hint from God about, you know, what could be coming in the future. You never know. So

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really looking into your money and your finances and that kind of thing is a good

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thing right now, right? Absolutely. I think that even, you know, where we started off talking about

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praying that prayer, if all of those who were listening got honest and say, well, how long

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is it since I prayed, give us this day our daily bread? Second question, if I pray that prayer,

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how do I pray it? Do I pray begging God? Am I asking him for something that he's already said

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he would give me? And have I actually put my foot down and said, recognize that there's a thief and

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I need to take issue with him? Tania, I don't know whether you know this, but it's a wonderful

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statistic. Jewish people make up around about 4% of the population of the U.S., about 4%.

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But they hold about 40% of the wealth. I love that you touched on that because that was the

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training last night. So if anyone missed the session before, definitely dive into that training

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because if we implement those principles, the biblical principles, who knows what God can do

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with our life? Absolutely right. God, you know, sometimes when people hear that, they say, well,

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that's because God, the Jewish people are God's chosen people. But listen, last time I read my

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Bible, we're God's chosen people.

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people so it's not just about it's not just being his chosen people they actually know

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some principles and i i'm about three quarters the way through my next book and my next book

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is going to be called uh the title is living as a circle inside a square it's going to look at

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how the jewish people do the money thing because there are principles that they can apply or they

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do apply that we need to apply and will change our economy forever i love it so three homework

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um is to take home with us would be to pray that prayer uh yeah i would definitely encourage

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everyone because i i think that what will happen is that you know if you've got a heart for for

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connecting with god on the money thing that will that will begin to connect you with that destiny

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praying that prayer day by day connects us with that destiny because we're starting to pray the

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heart of god that would be the first thing the second the second thing we haven't really

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touched on but i believe that people have to learn the four purposes for money and apply them they

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need to spend of course we can't avoid that they need to give they need to save and then they need

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to invest they need to do four things with all the money they get and um they need to do that with

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all the money they get that's the second that's the second thing that i think is is critically

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important and then realize that the bible has a lot more to say than we've yet discovered and start

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to become creative and say to god i know what i can see what am i not seeing what's in your word

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that i don't see that i need to see and if people would begin to pray that i think it would be

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surprising what god will begin to show us i love it well thank you so much bruce for joining us i

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do have one more question and i'm i hope i'm not going over time i didn't actually time this

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if you could have if you could just take the lid off people um right now so that they could dream

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bigger and have a greater god-sized vision for what's possible with their life with when money

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is stewarded and multiplied in their life what would you say like how could you help them take

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off that limit what would you like that's kind of a big picture question isn't that's a that's a

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wonderful wonderful question i think that i think that we have to believe that god has a a plan for

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us beyond where we're at right now and i don't know whether you know this but the words one

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another appear in the new testament about a hundred times and i live with the philosophy asp all shall

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prosper that through my life others should prosper as well and once we get a hold of that like one of

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my more recent um prayers for example as i say lord i want to be able to give every day of my life

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365 days a year i don't want to just give what you know if we give once a week that's 52 times

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a year if we give twice a week that's 104 times what wouldn't it be wonderful if we've got such a

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flow of money coming to us and then going through us that we're literally giving as almost like a

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daily expression of our life but it's my prayer before i die lord before i die i want to give

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every day i want to be i don't want to be a receptacle i want to be a piece of pipe i want

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money to come through me and flow and if people begin to get the fact that god will use us like

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that what an adventure yeah that was so gold bruce um i will love and leave you and thank you so much

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and i really hope people dive into the liberty trust and your booklet um oh that was so gold

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for us to be generous to live generous you know at the end of my day that i would be

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known by god as a generous person okay love you so much love you team we'll see you on the next

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session with an interview with marina who has an amazing transformation story with money love you

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thank you