WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.360 Today, we interview the CEO of First Liberty. 2 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:05.400 You are going to love what he has to say. 3 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:11.280 We're going to talk about all kinds of things from vaccine mandates to the freedom to kneel 4 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:12.480 in prayer. 5 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:20.480 That's next. 6 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:30.040 Hey, welcome back to the Barry Farris Show Culture Shift. 7 00:00:30.040 --> 00:00:33.120 Today, we've got a special guest, Kelly Shackelford. 8 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:37.040 He's a great guy, but he's also the CEO of First Liberty. 9 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:39.560 Hey, Kelly, we're just going to jump right in. 10 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:40.640 Thanks for joining us. 11 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.040 I'm glad you're here with us, appreciate it. 12 00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:46.240 So you've got a lot on your plate. 13 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:48.000 You've got cases from coast to coast. 14 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.840 You've got lots going on. 15 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:54.000 But why don't you just start out by giving us just a quick little overview of First Liberty. 16 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.680 What are you guys all about? 17 00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:59.520 First Liberty is the largest legal nonprofit in the country that all we do is religious 18 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:00.720 freedom cases. 19 00:01:00.720 --> 00:01:07.440 So let's say you're Chaplain Calvert, and you've been in the army for 17 years, and 20 00:01:07.440 --> 00:01:12.480 there's this President Trump guy there, and you post something on your personal Facebook 21 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:16.880 page that says, you know, I really agree with the president on his transgender policy, and 22 00:01:16.880 --> 00:01:18.800 then you cite scripture. 23 00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:22.160 And then the new administration comes in and decides that they're going to end your legal 24 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:28.960 career, I mean, your military career, because you agreed with the last commander-in-chief, 25 00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:32.000 and because as a chaplain, you expressed a religious belief. 26 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.440 Well, you don't have money to go out and hire, you know, attorneys and teams. 27 00:01:36.440 --> 00:01:42.720 So we come in, represent Chaplain Calvert free of charge, which, you know, we do with 28 00:01:42.720 --> 00:01:47.920 everybody, so that when we win, we don't just win for Chaplain Calvert, we set a precedent 29 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:52.560 for all of our chaplains, and whether that's your child in school, or your business, or 30 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:57.760 you name the situation, that's why we do what we do, and we do it free of charge, because 31 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:02.720 most people can never afford to fight the government and to bring in all the best 32 00:02:02.720 --> 00:02:06.960 litigators in the country, who all donate their time, by the way, on these cases. 33 00:02:06.960 --> 00:02:08.400 Oh, that's outstanding. 34 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:13.440 So it's the name of your organization is First Liberty, and I'm guessing that's coming 35 00:02:13.440 --> 00:02:17.520 from the First Amendment, the first part of the First Amendment. 36 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:23.840 Yeah, our founders called religious freedom, our first freedom. 37 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:28.160 And they did that because they understood if you lose that freedom, you'll lose all 38 00:02:28.160 --> 00:02:29.120 your freedoms. 39 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:34.400 And it's if you ever look at a totalitarian society, the first flashpoint is always 40 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.600 religious freedom, because they're the citizens that, you know, are actually, you know, 41 00:02:39.600 --> 00:02:43.360 won't bow knee to the government, because they bow knee to one greater than the government. 42 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.080 And that's totalitarianism can never allow that. 43 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.120 So for First Liberty is because it's our first freedom. 44 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:50.160 It's in the First Amendment. 45 00:02:50.160 --> 00:02:53.360 The first two clauses of the First Amendment are the two religion clauses. 46 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:59.200 And it's a great name for what we do, which is defending our first freedom, which really 47 00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:03.760 means we're defending all the freedoms because this is where the we and we just saw this 48 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:04.800 in COVID, right? 49 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:05.520 Yeah, COVID. 50 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:10.240 What was the first flashpoint when all of a sudden all these mayors and governors had 51 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:11.600 all this power they never had? 52 00:03:11.600 --> 00:03:12.640 It was religious freedom. 53 00:03:12.640 --> 00:03:14.640 It was shutting down the churches and synagogues. 54 00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:17.440 So that's, that's why our name is what it is. 55 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.120 It seems like totalitarian regimes are quite afraid of God. 56 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.000 They're not, they don't like to have a higher power than them. 57 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:27.120 I think that's kind of the, the essence of the issue. 58 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.760 So tell us about some of your big cases. 59 00:03:29.760 --> 00:03:34.480 What is it that you've worked on in the past that's maybe large that some of us would know 60 00:03:34.480 --> 00:03:37.360 about and maybe something that's a little more fresh and current? 61 00:03:37.920 --> 00:03:41.040 Well, you know, there's, there's just a ton of them now. 62 00:03:41.040 --> 00:03:44.240 I mean, I think 11 years ago, we had 48 cases. 63 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.000 Last year we had 321. 64 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.960 So there's a lot, but the ones that people are probably, I mean, heard about more than 65 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:55.760 others, uh, coach Kennedy case, the coach who got fired for going to a need to say a 66 00:03:55.760 --> 00:04:00.320 silent prayer after the football game, the Bladesburg cross case, the veterans memorial 67 00:04:00.320 --> 00:04:06.000 that is up for almost a hundred years that they tried to tear down because it was a cross 68 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.840 and it was on government property. 69 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:12.880 And right now, as you started by current, it would probably be the seal team, a case, 70 00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:13.840 the Navy seals. 71 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.920 We represent 40 Navy seals who, uh, they're just really treating horrifically. 72 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.800 I'm talking about, we're talking about court martial, a dishonorable discharge. 73 00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:27.600 They're already punishing their families. 74 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:28.100 Why? 75 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:35.120 Because they requested as they're right under the law, an exemption for the vaccine, a 76 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:39.920 religious exemption, because they have, you know, religious conscience issues, uh, with 77 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:41.440 regard to the vaccine. 78 00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:45.600 I mean, this should not be happening to people who serve us in the military who are basically 79 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.720 giving their all, uh, shouldn't be happening with anybody, but it certainly shouldn't be 80 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:53.360 happening with those who have served in such a way. 81 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:54.640 And then we're going to run off these. 82 00:04:55.760 --> 00:04:57.840 They're trying to get them for financial issues too. 83 00:04:57.840 --> 00:04:59.840 I mean, I heard they were looking at trying to. 84 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.860 take back some of their training expenses. 85 00:05:02.860 --> 00:05:04.300 I mean, that's millions of dollars. 86 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:05.540 That's nuts. 87 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:06.460 It's crazy. 88 00:05:06.460 --> 00:05:09.820 Plus we lose these unbelievably talented people 89 00:05:09.820 --> 00:05:14.100 who are already trained and ready to go and committed. 90 00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:17.820 And really this is sort of an ideological purging. 91 00:05:17.820 --> 00:05:19.940 I mean, if you saw this administration, 92 00:05:19.940 --> 00:05:23.400 they talked about sort of purging the military 93 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:25.260 of quote extremist elements. 94 00:05:25.260 --> 00:05:28.300 It's interesting how the first major purge 95 00:05:28.300 --> 00:05:31.620 seems to be only those with religious beliefs, 96 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.020 with conscience issues. 97 00:05:34.020 --> 00:05:36.540 This is really dangerous what they're trying to do. 98 00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:41.140 And we're, you know, fortunately for those we represent, 99 00:05:41.140 --> 00:05:43.060 the law protects their right to do. 100 00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:46.780 I mean, in the Department of Defense instructions itself, 101 00:05:46.780 --> 00:05:50.220 it guarantees them the right to religious accommodation. 102 00:05:50.220 --> 00:05:53.940 And this is great part of our history in America. 103 00:05:53.940 --> 00:05:56.860 I don't know how many people know about Desmond dogs, 104 00:05:56.860 --> 00:06:00.580 but Desmond was a seventh day Adventist 105 00:06:00.580 --> 00:06:04.020 who didn't believe in carrying a rifle. 106 00:06:04.020 --> 00:06:05.700 It violated his faith. 107 00:06:05.700 --> 00:06:09.140 And so they treated him unbelievably. 108 00:06:09.140 --> 00:06:10.140 They abused him. 109 00:06:10.140 --> 00:06:12.300 They tried to court martial him, 110 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:14.900 but thank goodness we're a system of laws 111 00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:16.260 in the constitution. 112 00:06:16.260 --> 00:06:18.580 The court martial was unsuccessful 113 00:06:18.580 --> 00:06:19.900 and he stayed in the military. 114 00:06:19.900 --> 00:06:22.780 They figured out a way to accommodate him. 115 00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:26.240 He was a medic who didn't carry a weapon. 116 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.240 The result of having a guy that's different like that was, 117 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.720 if anybody's ever seen the movie, you know, Hacksaw Ridge, 118 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.200 it's the true story of all these people, 119 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:42.400 just a brutal war, I mean, battle area. 120 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:45.080 And there sort of was up in the air 121 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:48.000 and people would, our soldiers would have to kind of 122 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.420 climb down after the big battle. 123 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:54.640 And Desmond, because of his beliefs, his value for life, 124 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:57.720 and that's the reason why he wouldn't carry a weapon, 125 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:01.920 crawled back up there with all these dying American soldiers 126 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.480 and one by one, surrounded by the enemy, 127 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:09.000 pulled and dragged them and lowered them down through a rope, 128 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.240 ended up saving 70 American lives 129 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.200 and ended up with the Congressional Medal of Honor. 130 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:19.400 And everybody at the end who persecuted him for his faith, 131 00:07:19.400 --> 00:07:23.560 for being different, thanked him and apologized to him. 132 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:25.320 That's what America is about, 133 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:28.640 is we got plenty of room for people with different beliefs. 134 00:07:28.640 --> 00:07:31.480 We can't afford to lose great people. 135 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.280 And so this is a really dangerous thing that they're doing 136 00:07:34.280 --> 00:07:36.800 and it goes against the very history of this country. 137 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:38.200 Absolutely. 138 00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:40.960 And you know, it seems like that this is not really 139 00:07:40.960 --> 00:07:45.280 a sincere health issue. 140 00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:47.480 If a number of the folks you're representing 141 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.700 have already had COVID, I've seen myself 142 00:07:51.700 --> 00:07:54.740 and I'm not an expert, but I have read for myself 143 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:58.660 several studies that show that the individual 144 00:07:58.660 --> 00:08:01.660 natural immunity actually is equal to 145 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:04.980 or better than the vaccine. 146 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:06.780 And then which vaccine's the best? 147 00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:09.540 And then some of the vaccines don't work as well 148 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:11.220 for certain types of people as others. 149 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:13.700 And some of the medical exemptions people are requesting 150 00:08:13.700 --> 00:08:15.940 seem extremely reasonable to me. 151 00:08:15.940 --> 00:08:17.420 And in a normal situation, 152 00:08:17.420 --> 00:08:20.540 you would just think that you could make an accommodation, 153 00:08:20.580 --> 00:08:22.740 especially when you've reached past 90%. 154 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:24.180 I mean, goodness gracious. 155 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.980 And, you know, the POTUS is bragging 156 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:30.420 about being past 90% vaccination levels in the military 157 00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:31.780 because he coerced everyone 158 00:08:31.780 --> 00:08:34.020 with threat of loss of livelihood. 159 00:08:34.020 --> 00:08:35.440 And it's just absurd. 160 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.299 So I'm glad you're fighting this for them. 161 00:08:37.299 --> 00:08:40.020 And I think you're doing that really on behalf of 162 00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:43.700 not just people who have a religious belief 163 00:08:43.700 --> 00:08:47.860 that the vaccine is a violation of their beliefs, 164 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:50.140 but for people who might have some other belief 165 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:51.580 that could come up someday 166 00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:53.820 that their situation could be violated. 167 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.740 Nobody wants to be forced and coerced into something, 168 00:08:56.740 --> 00:08:58.900 especially something we know so little about. 169 00:08:58.900 --> 00:08:59.900 So thanks for doing that. 170 00:08:59.900 --> 00:09:00.740 Let me ask you this. 171 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:02.340 Are you guys willing to take that thing 172 00:09:02.340 --> 00:09:05.180 all the way through to the Supreme Court? 173 00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:06.540 We plan to. 174 00:09:06.540 --> 00:09:10.900 Our lead on this case is our general counsel, Mike Berry. 175 00:09:10.900 --> 00:09:13.020 He's actually Lieutenant Colonel Mike Berry. 176 00:09:13.020 --> 00:09:14.140 He's still in the reserves. 177 00:09:14.140 --> 00:09:16.100 Seems like a really sharp guy from what I can tell. 178 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:18.740 He's the number one military lawyer in the country. 179 00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:23.740 So he's ready to go the full length and we have to. 180 00:09:23.900 --> 00:09:24.740 I mean- 181 00:09:24.740 --> 00:09:25.580 How long would that take? 182 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:26.420 Like just for our viewers, 183 00:09:26.420 --> 00:09:27.860 most people aren't legal experts. 184 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:30.100 So you're at the beginning stages here. 185 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:31.420 How long would it take? 186 00:09:31.420 --> 00:09:33.340 Realistically, can you accelerate things 187 00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:34.900 because livelihoods are at stake? 188 00:09:34.900 --> 00:09:37.500 Yeah, I think there's gonna be some acceleration here 189 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.820 because there's deadlines coming up 190 00:09:39.820 --> 00:09:41.660 at the beginning of November. 191 00:09:41.660 --> 00:09:44.460 They're talking about taking these actions against them. 192 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:46.640 And then depending upon how all that goes, 193 00:09:46.640 --> 00:09:48.600 it could be what actions they do take, 194 00:09:49.460 --> 00:09:52.040 so I think things will be accelerated, 195 00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:54.280 but it's not unusual. 196 00:09:54.280 --> 00:09:55.680 Like our Coach Kennedy case 197 00:09:55.680 --> 00:09:58.280 that's just landed at the Supreme Court. 198 00:09:58.280 --> 00:10:00.080 It's been going on for seven years. 199 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.300 Wow. So some of these cases really do take a while. 200 00:10:04.300 --> 00:10:06.700 You've got to work your way up through the system. 201 00:10:06.700 --> 00:10:09.100 Sometimes you've got to go up and back down. 202 00:10:09.100 --> 00:10:10.800 I don't think that'll be the case. 203 00:10:10.800 --> 00:10:12.800 At the Coach Kennedy case, 204 00:10:12.800 --> 00:10:15.600 some viewers might not remember since it is seven years ago. 205 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.100 As I recall, he would kneel in prayer 206 00:10:19.100 --> 00:10:22.100 and out of respect for God at the beginning 207 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:23.700 and maybe at the end of each game. 208 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:25.700 Is that right? It was after the game. 209 00:10:25.700 --> 00:10:26.600 After the game. 210 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:28.400 When everybody would go to the center of the field 211 00:10:28.400 --> 00:10:31.500 and kind of, you know, shake hands and all that. 212 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:34.400 He had a tradition himself, 213 00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:36.500 really a pledge he made to God 214 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:39.800 that he would go to a knee and for 15 to 20 seconds, 215 00:10:39.800 --> 00:10:42.500 he would thank God for the privilege of coaching 216 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:44.200 the young men that he got to coach. 217 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:47.800 And that's what he did for seven years 218 00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:49.800 until the school told him that if he did it again, 219 00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:51.100 he was going to be fired. 220 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:52.900 It wasn't that kind of, 221 00:10:52.900 --> 00:10:54.900 and I don't remember all the details, 222 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:57.700 but is that the coach that basically felt like 223 00:10:57.800 --> 00:10:59.200 he sort of had to do that? 224 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:00.000 He was compelled. 225 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.200 He believed that that was kind of an agreement 226 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:03.600 he had with God, 227 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.100 that he had basically had a belief and a faith 228 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:07.700 that God was pleased with that, 229 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:10.900 that honored him and that was the idea. 230 00:11:10.900 --> 00:11:13.200 He was in the Marines for 20 years 231 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.400 and this is a guy that had a pretty rough background. 232 00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:20.000 And as he was preparing to go to that first job 233 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.000 to be a coach, 234 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.600 he happened to see the movie Facing the Giants, 235 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:28.600 which is about sort of Christians and coaching 236 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:30.400 and it just convicted him 237 00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:31.800 and he made a pledge to God. 238 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:33.800 He said, after every game, 239 00:11:33.800 --> 00:11:35.200 the first thing I'm going to do 240 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:36.800 when people go in the middle of the field 241 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:39.300 and slap each other on the back and all that, 242 00:11:39.300 --> 00:11:41.600 the first thing I'm going to do is thank you 243 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.400 for the privilege of coaching these young men. 244 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:45.400 And so that's what he did. 245 00:11:45.400 --> 00:11:48.300 And they ended up firing him 246 00:11:48.300 --> 00:11:49.900 and then unfortunately for him, 247 00:11:49.900 --> 00:11:51.200 he lives in the Ninth Circuit, 248 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.300 which is out of San Francisco. 249 00:11:53.300 --> 00:11:55.400 So the Ninth Circuit said coaches aren't allowed 250 00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:58.300 to pray in public if anyone can see them. 251 00:11:58.300 --> 00:12:00.400 So I guess that would ban teachers 252 00:12:00.400 --> 00:12:02.300 from bowing their heads over their meals. 253 00:12:02.300 --> 00:12:03.300 I mean, it would, 254 00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:05.500 it'd just be incredible the loss of freedoms 255 00:12:05.500 --> 00:12:07.400 for everybody who works for the government 256 00:12:07.400 --> 00:12:10.600 because you would lose your First Amendment rights. 257 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.000 And that's not the law. 258 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.400 The good news is we went up the first time 259 00:12:15.400 --> 00:12:16.900 to the Supreme Court 260 00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:18.600 and they didn't take it then 261 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:19.900 because they felt like there needed to be 262 00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:21.300 some more factual development, 263 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:24.300 but the four more conservative justices 264 00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:26.000 said they were very, 265 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.700 they found the decision below incredibly disturbing. 266 00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:31.100 They really wanted to look at reviewing it 267 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:33.800 and that was before Amy Coney Barrett joined. 268 00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:36.700 So now that we're on our way back up 269 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:41.000 with even worse facts than we had before, 270 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.500 I feel really like there's a great likelihood 271 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:46.100 the court will take this case. 272 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:47.500 So then what happens to the coach? 273 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.300 I mean, does he get back pay or what happens? 274 00:12:50.300 --> 00:12:51.400 Well, yeah, at that point, 275 00:12:51.400 --> 00:12:53.000 but right now he's out of coaching 276 00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:56.600 for six, seven years, having to wait. 277 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.900 And that's the thing he loves is being with those kids 278 00:12:59.900 --> 00:13:01.600 and everybody loved the coach. 279 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.600 I mean, it's just interesting. 280 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.000 They tried to use against him, 281 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:08.400 the judges of the Ninth Circuit, 282 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:11.200 that he was a person of good character 283 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:12.600 and people liked to follow him. 284 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.100 Like that was a bad thing. 285 00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:17.700 It was bad that people wanted to do what he wanted to do 286 00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:20.900 because it was evangelistic for him to be praying. 287 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:22.100 That's right. 288 00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:24.600 Even though he never asked anybody to do anything, 289 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.300 he was a great example. 290 00:13:26.300 --> 00:13:27.600 And evidently that was a negative thing. 291 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:30.800 My favorite was the Ninth Circuit said 292 00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:33.900 that one of the reasons that they were ruling against him 293 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:38.900 was that for him to do all this was pugilistic, 294 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.800 meaning he fought back. 295 00:13:41.800 --> 00:13:44.900 And what they were saying was he went to the media 296 00:13:44.900 --> 00:13:46.800 and filed a lawsuit. 297 00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:49.500 And it was like, if you read our brief, 298 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:51.100 you would probably enjoy it in the Supreme Court. 299 00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:53.100 We said, this is a remarkable thought 300 00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:55.500 that our founders would I'm sure be 301 00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:57.100 just incredibly enlightened by 302 00:13:57.100 --> 00:14:00.400 that the government can abuse your First Amendment rights. 303 00:14:00.400 --> 00:14:04.600 But if you respond by speaking out and filing a lawsuit, 304 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.200 well, you're not really worthy of its protection. 305 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:08.500 Unbelievable. 306 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:10.500 It's amazing. 307 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:13.400 So it's gonna be a flashy case, I think, 308 00:14:13.400 --> 00:14:14.240 that the Supreme Court- 309 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:15.300 And this one's coming up, 310 00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:17.800 you're presenting before the SCOTUS 311 00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:19.200 in the next couple of months, right? 312 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.400 Yes, now that's not Kennedy 313 00:14:21.400 --> 00:14:23.600 because that one we're waiting to see if they take. 314 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:24.440 Okay. 315 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.400 But on December 8th, 316 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:29.600 we argue a case of the Supreme Court 317 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.700 that is gonna be a really important case 318 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:33.700 to the issue of school choice 319 00:14:33.700 --> 00:14:35.800 and Christian or religious schools. 320 00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:38.000 It's out of Maine where they said, 321 00:14:38.900 --> 00:14:40.800 you can pick a school for your kids 322 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:43.000 and we'll reimburse you as parents 323 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.300 up to the state tuition levels. 324 00:14:46.300 --> 00:14:48.600 And you can pick any private school you want. 325 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.000 And we'll even allow you to pick religious schools. 326 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.200 But if it's a religious school 327 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:54.600 that's serious about its faith 328 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.700 or teaches anything about worldview 329 00:14:56.700 --> 00:14:58.500 or has any of that stuff in their curriculum, 330 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.300 then we'll take your money from you. 331 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.040 And we're like, you can't do that. 332 00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:06.480 Basically, they're going to decide whether or not you're crossing the line on anything 333 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.520 doctrinal or anything of that nature. 334 00:15:08.520 --> 00:15:09.520 Yes. 335 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:10.520 Anything. 336 00:15:10.520 --> 00:15:11.520 And they're lying. 337 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:12.520 They're the arbitrator. 338 00:15:12.520 --> 00:15:13.520 Very quick. 339 00:15:13.520 --> 00:15:17.920 Very quick line to the line is basically, if you mean anything about your faith and 340 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:23.000 you can't do that, the government can't say, hey, we're we're going to let everybody. 341 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:24.160 I mean, it should be. 342 00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:25.320 Are you teaching math? 343 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.080 Are you teaching science? 344 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:28.080 Absolutely. 345 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.160 And that's not what they're doing. 346 00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:32.440 So what this is going to do, Mary, it's really interesting. 347 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.720 There's cases already that because for years they would argue, well, if you have school 348 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.600 choice, you can't include the religious schools. 349 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:46.040 And the Supreme Court said, no, that's discrimination to to say you can't have the religious schools. 350 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:53.520 Well, so now the question is, OK, if it's not required to exclude the religious schools, 351 00:15:53.520 --> 00:15:57.360 can they choose not to include the religious schools? 352 00:15:57.640 --> 00:15:59.760 And I think we're going to get a victory. 353 00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:01.120 I mean, we really believe we will. 354 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:06.200 And if we do what it will establish, it'll sort of be that last nail in the coffin saying 355 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:12.200 whenever you have school choice, whenever you let parents choose religious schools, 356 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.840 Christian schools must be treated the same. 357 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:19.600 They must be included as the parents have every right to choose those. 358 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.120 And that'll be a really big thing. 359 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:26.240 I mean, result, I think, for Christian schools, religious schools across the country. 360 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.640 And I really feel confident that we've got good momentum on this case. 361 00:16:29.640 --> 00:16:31.080 No, that's great. 362 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.720 So let's just shift over to vaccines and vaccine mandates and all that type of thing. 363 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.840 We may have to just go straight to rumble, no offense, because I sometimes get censored 364 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:45.680 when we say anything about vaccines, even if we read something directly from an epidemiologist. 365 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:51.680 So what is your view of the big picture on the vaccine mandate battle? 366 00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:58.640 I know you've got this huge case with the Navy, and that's huge, but we've got Southwest 367 00:16:58.640 --> 00:17:03.120 Airlines and you've got a bunch of proud Texans that are saying, even if I want to take the 368 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.200 vaccine, it's none of your business. 369 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.200 And so we've got that. 370 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.440 And then we've also got folks that it's like, even if it is your business, I've got a religious 371 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.079 exemption and we've got others saying, even if it is your business, I've got a medical 372 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:14.480 exemption, et cetera. 373 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:20.520 So you come from a place where there's some real vigor to your beliefs. 374 00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:23.480 What do you think is going to happen with Southwest? 375 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.200 United's got a case going forward. 376 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.840 They have a whole bunch of pilots and others that are on board. 377 00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:34.000 I think it's like 2000 total employees going forward. 378 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.120 Delta said, hey, we're going to let you choose. 379 00:17:36.120 --> 00:17:38.720 What do you think is going to happen with this religious exemption? 380 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.400 You've got a toolkit on your website we'll talk about in a minute, but what do you think 381 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.840 is the big picture of what's going on with the vaccine mandate? 382 00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.840 And then will we will we win the guys that want freedom or will this be a precursor to 383 00:17:50.840 --> 00:17:52.720 total control and compliance? 384 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:53.720 What's going to happen? 385 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:55.760 There's sort of two parts of this. 386 00:17:55.760 --> 00:17:59.840 First, let me talk about something that people have heard a lot about. 387 00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:02.460 But maybe you're a little confused about. 388 00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:08.040 First is what about what the president talked about coming up with this mandate to force 389 00:18:08.040 --> 00:18:14.760 all the companies in the country that have 100 more employees to force mandate, vaccinate 390 00:18:14.760 --> 00:18:18.120 all their employees. 391 00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:20.120 People might think, well, isn't that already in place? 392 00:18:20.120 --> 00:18:21.960 It's not. 393 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.400 He hasn't done anything. 394 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:25.880 He talked about it in a press conference. 395 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.440 The OSHA regulations have not come out now. 396 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.360 I don't know if that's because they're never going to come out, because if they do come 397 00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:37.480 out, I think they're going to be massively unconstitutional and and I really think they'll 398 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:38.480 be struck down. 399 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.600 But let's say they do come out with these. 400 00:18:40.600 --> 00:18:46.920 What this is, is OSHA, which is really a federal agency that's supposed to keep the 401 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:52.760 workplace safe, taking over health care. 402 00:18:52.760 --> 00:18:56.640 And you just I don't think that's going to get very far because health and safety is 403 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.720 not a federal controlled issue. 404 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.920 It is a state issue. 405 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:05.420 The health and safety power is a state power under the Constitution. 406 00:19:05.420 --> 00:19:09.560 So number one, this is not something that the federal government really has any authority 407 00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:10.560 over. 408 00:19:10.560 --> 00:19:15.240 But let's say the courts allowed them to, even if they did, that type of decision would 409 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:19.200 have to come through the legislature, not through an edict from the president or an 410 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.680 executive branch official. 411 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.280 And there's just so many other problems. 412 00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:27.560 So real quick before I don't want to interrupt you, but just to make sure people are following 413 00:19:27.560 --> 00:19:28.560 with you. 414 00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:33.640 So right now, as we sit here, all the mandates for United and American Airlines and all these 415 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:38.440 other big companies and all the things that they're doing are not actually as a result 416 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:39.480 of a law. 417 00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:42.760 They're a result of a press conference by the president, United States. 418 00:19:43.080 --> 00:19:46.080 Now, if that had there was no executive order there. 419 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:50.840 I mean, he he has said that everybody who is 420 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:55.200 a federal contractor, they want to require them. 421 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.720 But again, that's not a law. 422 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:58.920 So the U.S. employee, the U.S. 423 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.040 government employee. 424 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.440 These are required by executive order. 425 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.480 Here's the executive telling all of you, here's the order. 426 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:07.800 It's not a law, but it's an executive order. 427 00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:13.920 And that's, but all these companies are just responding out of fear or 428 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:18.320 compliance or they're in maybe, maybe they want to do federal contracts. 429 00:20:18.320 --> 00:20:21.360 Maybe they have federal contracts and then wanting to comply 430 00:20:21.520 --> 00:20:22.800 with the federal contracts. 431 00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:24.440 Again, it's not that they have to. 432 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:31.760 And, uh, the executive, an executive order only applies to executive officials. 433 00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:36.400 So in other words, the president has a right to not contradicting law, but 434 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.680 he has a right to, you know, say, Hey, I want the people working for me to do 435 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.840 such and such, as long as that doesn't violate a statute or the constitution 436 00:20:44.840 --> 00:20:49.000 or whatever else, he doesn't, doesn't have any right to tell private industry 437 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.880 how to do why he's trying to go through OSHA and OSHA now that was kind 438 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:58.840 of clever, if you're, if you're evil, I mean, to kind of go through a 439 00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:03.960 mechanism that can find you that has enforcement power and, you know, they 440 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.320 can come by and say, Hey, your workers comp safety programs, not up to, up 441 00:21:07.320 --> 00:21:10.720 to snuff, you're, you might be in violation here and here and that type 442 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:15.160 of a thing, but goodness, that's like, uh, that's like the CDC saying 443 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.200 we've decided that landlords can't charge rent anymore. 444 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.280 I mean, it's, it's the same overreach. 445 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:23.360 I mean, what the heck is going on? 446 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:28.880 So do you think that if this actually came to a case, it would be viewed by 447 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.480 most judges as something that should be thrown out? 448 00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:33.520 I think so. 449 00:21:33.520 --> 00:21:36.800 And it don't be, I mean, we have lawsuits, they're already drawn up. 450 00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:37.320 They're ready. 451 00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:40.640 I mean, in a moment's notice, we we've got clients we've got, I mean, 452 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.320 OSHA applies to churches. 453 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:43.640 It applies to ministry. 454 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:44.840 It applies to everybody. 455 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:45.680 So think of this. 456 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.760 I mean, really the president is overtaking everything. 457 00:21:49.320 --> 00:21:50.720 Um, and it's just nonsense. 458 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:55.040 I mean, they're doing this under an emergency, uh, provision. 459 00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:59.840 Well, if it's an emergency, then why is, is it only apply to companies 460 00:21:59.840 --> 00:22:01.280 with more than a hundred employees? 461 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:06.360 I mean, I don't think you heard what COVID does not affect companies 462 00:22:06.360 --> 00:22:07.880 with less than a hundred employees. 463 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.120 It's a very slippery kind of a virus. 464 00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:15.280 It only goes after people with over a hundred employees or they are with, or, 465 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.840 you know, like in Europe, they accept now with their vaccine passport, 466 00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:24.840 the, um, natural immunity, which I thought was interesting. 467 00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:26.000 They should. 468 00:22:26.280 --> 00:22:27.080 Well, I agree. 469 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.960 It's just factual now. 470 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.000 Let me go to the second though, because I got you off track, but go ahead. 471 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:39.320 Which is, let's say though, that the court said, Hey, we're going to allow 472 00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:44.320 Biden and OSHA to pass these things, to require all these companies with a 473 00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:48.600 hundred more employees to re to require their employees to get, you know, uh, 474 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:56.720 vaccinated even then there still are federal laws that protect everybody 475 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:01.160 who works for a company to have a right to religious accommodation. 476 00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:04.600 That's been in the law since 1964. 477 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:10.640 So the point is there are almost always a right to a religious 478 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.240 exemption and, or a medical exemption. 479 00:23:13.800 --> 00:23:17.440 And, uh, and that's why we created, you mentioned it earlier, the 480 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.680 religious liberty protection kit for vaccine mandates, um, because 481 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:23.880 people didn't understand, they didn't know what the rights were. 482 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:25.360 And so we tried to make it to where. 483 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:30.720 Even whether you are a person who's in the military, there's a 484 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.840 set of laws that apply there, or you work and your, your employer is the 485 00:23:34.840 --> 00:23:38.200 government, there's a set of laws, constitution set that applies there. 486 00:23:38.520 --> 00:23:43.480 Or even if you're a private employer situation, again, title seven of the 487 00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:48.040 civil rights act of 1964 applies there and all of those situations, you get a 488 00:23:48.040 --> 00:23:51.520 right to religious exemption and religious accommodation, and we even 489 00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:53.680 provided sample exemption requests. 490 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:55.480 And what we found Barry is that. 491 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:59.600 Probably 90% of the people that come to us and just follow that 492 00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:01.680 themselves, they get the exemption. 493 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:02.360 That's great. 494 00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:06.400 Um, sometimes people don't and they push, they, you know, they 495 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.240 kind of try to intimidate them. 496 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.320 We found that when they go back and they push and they don't back down, 497 00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:12.680 they typically get it. 498 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.120 So it's really the smaller scenarios where companies are being abusive. 499 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:23.120 And in this case, the military, the military has said now a number of times. 500 00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:28.640 And think of this, the law requires them to provide accommodations and they're 501 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.400 required to look at each case individually. 502 00:24:31.800 --> 00:24:32.320 Okay. 503 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.120 That's a requirement as a matter of law. 504 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.400 They made a statement already that said, they're just going to deny all of them. 505 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:38.080 Yeah. 506 00:24:38.080 --> 00:24:39.000 That's insane. 507 00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:39.760 That's crazy. 508 00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:43.600 Now, before we go, before we go to the military, um, there's a lot of people 509 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:46.600 out there that still haven't gotten their religious exemption approved. 510 00:24:46.600 --> 00:24:48.920 They have done some rendition of an application. 511 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:54.200 So if they go to first liberties website, they can click over to where you've got 512 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:59.880 this whole, um, uh, presentation all laid out for them, and they can go. 513 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.400 and they can pick who they are. 514 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.440 So let's say you're a Protestant Christian, 515 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.680 they can go to that section 516 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.720 and then you have right there for them 517 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.760 the two ways they can have to get a religious exemption. 518 00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:11.120 You know, I'm a Catholic Christian, 519 00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:14.200 I'm gonna come over here and pick maybe similar ways, 520 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:15.840 but just slightly different wording, et cetera. 521 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:18.360 And you've got all that already laid out for them 522 00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:20.600 for free on the website right now, right? 523 00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:24.200 It's at firstliberty, you spell out firstliberty.org. 524 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:25.960 And I will say this though, Barry, 525 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.920 what I'm finding in most people who don't get these, 526 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.120 they're being intimidated out of asking. 527 00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:32.960 Yeah. 528 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.400 They're being told you won't get it 529 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:35.800 or something will happen. 530 00:25:35.800 --> 00:25:39.000 Or, you know, the other is people are asking, 531 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.360 they're submitting and they're just being denied 532 00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:43.180 and they just let it go. 533 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.320 You don't have to let it go, okay? 534 00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:48.880 Even though we can't represent 10,000 people, 535 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.440 I mean, we're getting thousands of requests. 536 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:53.280 And so we're trying to take the big cases 537 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:56.720 like the seals and others that we can set precedent. 538 00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:00.200 But even if you can't find a local attorney 539 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.560 and we just can't help you because of numbers, 540 00:26:03.560 --> 00:26:07.040 the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 541 00:26:07.040 --> 00:26:11.360 is a federal agency that it explains if you go there, 542 00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:14.280 you can file to say they refuse 543 00:26:14.280 --> 00:26:17.240 to give me my accommodation requests. 544 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.520 And the EEOC can even take up your case for you. 545 00:26:20.520 --> 00:26:22.440 But the point is you're not done. 546 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.520 I mean, follow through, go as far as you can. 547 00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:27.680 What we find, I mean, I'll give you one example. 548 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.640 I've got a doctor who called us. 549 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.120 He said, hey, I'm gonna fill out these forms. 550 00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:35.200 I'm gonna request the exemptions. 551 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.520 I'm at three different hospitals. 552 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:39.320 And he did. 553 00:26:39.320 --> 00:26:42.080 And he called back out and said, you know, 554 00:26:42.080 --> 00:26:45.600 one of them granted my exemption and the other two didn't. 555 00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.200 And he says, so I'm gonna follow through 556 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:50.240 and I'm gonna push with those other two. 557 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.440 Guess what? 558 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:52.880 They all granted his exemption. 559 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:53.720 That's great. 560 00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:56.720 It just takes people pursuing. 561 00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.360 In most cases, when people are granting exemptions, 562 00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:01.400 are they also granting an accommodation? 563 00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.680 Because like in the case of the United Airlines pilot 564 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.040 that I know, I walked with him through his whole process 565 00:27:08.040 --> 00:27:08.960 and that was horrible. 566 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:10.520 He got the exemption, 567 00:27:10.520 --> 00:27:12.320 but only after they asked all these 568 00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:14.160 extremely intrusive questions, 569 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:15.880 acted like they were his pastor. 570 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:17.760 Like, can you prove you're a Christian 571 00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:20.320 and can you demonstrate, do you have an attestation? 572 00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:22.640 All kinds of what I thought were illegal questions, 573 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:23.680 very intrusive. 574 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.640 But anyway, he kept pushing back and pushing back 575 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.360 and he did get his exemption. 576 00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:30.240 So that we thought, hey, we won something. 577 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:31.960 So you got your religious exemption 578 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.840 and then you go to page two and it's like, 579 00:27:33.840 --> 00:27:34.840 but you're not gonna get paid. 580 00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:36.240 You're not gonna have your benefits. 581 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.840 And there's basically no accommodation. 582 00:27:37.840 --> 00:27:39.240 Now, isn't that kind of illegal 583 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.680 to give you a religious exemption 584 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:42.440 with no accommodation at all? 585 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.760 Yeah, there's two ways they could violate that law. 586 00:27:44.760 --> 00:27:48.000 One is to refuse to, you know, 587 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.400 recognize his exemption right or her exemption right at all. 588 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.080 The other is to say, yeah, 589 00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:56.720 we know that you have a valid religious claim, 590 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.080 but not give them any reasonable accommodation. 591 00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:03.480 And now I'll say this though, 592 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:08.480 if people are asking for a religious accommodation, 593 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.560 if you can think of a way, your own creativity of a way 594 00:28:13.560 --> 00:28:16.880 to, you know, meet your religious objections, 595 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:21.680 but also, you know, take away whatever fear they have, 596 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.280 then I think it's great to offer those things. 597 00:28:24.280 --> 00:28:25.120 You bet. 598 00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:26.280 Everything's different. 599 00:28:26.280 --> 00:28:28.440 Like, I mean, one of our people that called us, 600 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.640 it was in a medical company, but they worked from home. 601 00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:32.840 They never saw anybody. 602 00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:37.480 I promised to wear a mask while at home on the Zoom call. 603 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.080 So, but there's lots of ways, you know, 604 00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:42.360 the traditional sort of case in this arena 605 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:47.400 is the seven day Adventist or the Jewish person 606 00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:50.320 who can't work on the Sabbath. 607 00:28:50.320 --> 00:28:51.160 Right. 608 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.480 And the company schedules them and they say, 609 00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.360 hey, I need an accommodation. 610 00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:58.040 If the company can juggle schedules, which they usually can, 611 00:28:58.040 --> 00:28:59.400 they're required to. 612 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.600 And so if you offer them something that is reasonable, 613 00:29:02.600 --> 00:29:05.000 that makes it much more difficult for them to then say, 614 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.920 no, we're not gonna be reasonable. 615 00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.320 And I think it puts them in a really bad situation 616 00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:11.320 if you were in a legal battle with them. 617 00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:12.440 No, that's great. 618 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:13.720 So this has been great. 619 00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:14.560 We could go on forever. 620 00:29:14.560 --> 00:29:16.720 And I think people are very interested in this topic, 621 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:18.360 but how do we get ahold of you 622 00:29:18.360 --> 00:29:20.040 if somebody wants to support you? 623 00:29:20.040 --> 00:29:24.120 And just tell us just a little bit more about First Liberty 624 00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:26.840 before we sign off for today. 625 00:29:26.840 --> 00:29:28.960 People can just go to firstliberty.org, 626 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.840 just spell it, firstliberty.org. 627 00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:34.240 And the best thing I'd say is there's a deal 628 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.160 that says be an insider where you start getting, 629 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:39.600 once a week, you'll get an email 630 00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:42.160 and you'll know what's happening. 631 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.880 Because otherwise you're not gonna know about it. 632 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:45.120 I mean, you're not probably gonna know 633 00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:46.320 when there's a big victory 634 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.200 on any of these issues that we're talking about. 635 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.240 And especially for people, they say, what can I do? 636 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.160 You know, I'm not an attorney. 637 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.320 Well, number one, they can pray 638 00:29:57.320 --> 00:29:58.640 and they're not gonna know about the cases 639 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.280 unless they see them to pray for. 640 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:05.080 I mean, wouldn't you want to know that Coach Kennedy is having his argument, you know, 641 00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:09.320 and you can pray for the argument tomorrow or whenever it is. 642 00:30:09.320 --> 00:30:13.240 Number two, they can educate others because as we're winning these cases, most people 643 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.680 don't know that we're winning the cases. 644 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:17.400 So people are scared. 645 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:22.560 And if you educate more people, they get more bold and standing for their faith and what 646 00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:23.560 they believe. 647 00:30:23.560 --> 00:30:26.480 And then obviously, the last thing is you can support us financially. 648 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.280 We were a nonprofit, so we represent as many people as we can. 649 00:30:30.280 --> 00:30:34.020 And we're kind of a unique combination, because while all the people on our staff are like 650 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:38.540 top of their law school class, and they specialize in religious liberty, our cases are always 651 00:30:38.540 --> 00:30:44.100 a combination of our people and the best litigators in the country at the most powerful law firms 652 00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:45.900 who are donating their time. 653 00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:51.540 So like, every time we spend about 10,000 on our staff, we get about 60,000 of volunteer 654 00:30:51.540 --> 00:30:53.660 time from the best litigators in the country. 655 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:58.600 So it's a great team effort, which is why we get so many victories. 656 00:30:58.600 --> 00:31:01.440 And so we're just loving to increase the Army. 657 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.800 So I tell people if they want to come and be a part, we'd love for them to be a part 658 00:31:05.800 --> 00:31:09.200 of really changing the future of the country in a good way. 659 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:13.120 And they can just go to firstliberty.org to get involved. 660 00:31:13.120 --> 00:31:14.800 That's outstanding, Kelly. 661 00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:15.800 So fantastic. 662 00:31:15.800 --> 00:31:19.640 Well, it's been just great to have you on the show today. 663 00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:24.340 Any of you lawyers out there that have a love for God and a love for country, you might 664 00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:28.740 want to consider getting, you know, seeing if you can reach out to First Liberty yourself. 665 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.740 There might be some real benefit to you long term. 666 00:31:30.740 --> 00:31:32.300 That could be a really good way. 667 00:31:32.300 --> 00:31:38.020 What a great business model, a six to one ratio, and that's a huge bang for the buck. 668 00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:39.340 So thank God for that. 669 00:31:39.340 --> 00:31:40.340 That's fantastic. 670 00:31:40.340 --> 00:31:42.300 Well, thanks again for coming on the show. 671 00:31:42.300 --> 00:31:43.980 We sure appreciate it. 672 00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:49.020 And to your freedom, because if you want to be successful in life, you've got to live 673 00:31:49.020 --> 00:31:50.400 in a free society. 674 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.040 And that's what we're concerned about. 675 00:31:52.040 --> 00:31:53.040 So God bless you. 676 00:31:53.040 --> 00:31:54.040 Until next time. 677 00:31:54.040 --> 00:31:55.040 Hi, I'm David Farah. 678 00:31:55.040 --> 00:32:02.120 Thank you for listening to my dad's podcast, The Barry Farah Show, Culture Shift. 679 00:32:02.120 --> 00:32:05.680 Click subscribe now to be sure you don't miss an episode. 680 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:10.320 Share this podcast with your friends on social media and give The Barry Farah Show your five 681 00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:11.680 star rating. 682 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:17.560 Check out today's show notes below this episode and at thebarryfarahshow.com. 683 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:24.540 This podcast is also available in video format at The Barry Farah Show on YouTube. 684 00:32:24.540 --> 00:32:25.300 See you next time.