WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.880 It has been a couple of weeks. 2 00:00:01.880 --> 00:00:03.440 It's good to have you all back. 3 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:04.700 I know on the last call, 4 00:00:04.700 --> 00:00:07.860 we talked about how to be a brilliant project manager, 5 00:00:07.860 --> 00:00:09.380 and that's a tool that teaches us 6 00:00:09.380 --> 00:00:12.840 how to very quickly build trust and manage expectations, 7 00:00:12.840 --> 00:00:15.120 not just for ourselves as project managers, 8 00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:16.800 but also for our team. 9 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.420 And so this is really important because what you deliver 10 00:00:20.420 --> 00:00:23.200 and how you deliver it really does matter. 11 00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:25.200 So we wanna become known for being people 12 00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:27.760 who do what we say we'll do, when we say we'll do it, 13 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:29.600 and that is the perfect tool for it. 14 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:31.560 And so today we are talking about 15 00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:34.320 how to manage three different types of people 16 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.000 and strategies for dealing with poor behavior. 17 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.520 But just before we dive in, 18 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.120 I do have a pro tip for you today, 19 00:00:42.120 --> 00:00:45.420 and it's all about setting the rhythm for deep work. 20 00:00:45.420 --> 00:00:46.760 And so I know at this point, 21 00:00:46.760 --> 00:00:48.200 we've gotten in the practice of it, 22 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:50.120 and we know deep work is so critical 23 00:00:50.120 --> 00:00:53.600 for bringing our great contributions to the team, 24 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:55.760 for our ability to innovate and be creative. 25 00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:58.440 And so in order to get the most out of deep work, 26 00:00:58.440 --> 00:01:01.360 we do have to really develop our ability to focus 27 00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:03.220 for longer periods of time. 28 00:01:03.220 --> 00:01:05.480 And my challenge for you all this week 29 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:08.260 is to set aside one bucket for deep work 30 00:01:08.260 --> 00:01:10.900 and to be sure to practice inversion. 31 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:13.380 So inversion is where we are bringing something 32 00:01:13.380 --> 00:01:16.320 that we love into the deep work session with us. 33 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:19.720 And for example, I love to set a candle 34 00:01:19.720 --> 00:01:21.680 and pour myself a hot cup of tea. 35 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.520 That is kind of my trigger to remember, 36 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:25.160 okay, we're going into deep work. 37 00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:27.820 And why we're doing that is we're teaching ourselves 38 00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:31.020 how to reframe and really love deep work. 39 00:01:31.020 --> 00:01:33.900 And that's how we make any rhythm into a lifestyle. 40 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:37.360 So the pro tip for today is to try out some element 41 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:38.580 of inversion this week, 42 00:01:38.580 --> 00:01:41.420 and then let us know next week how it goes. 43 00:01:41.420 --> 00:01:45.120 So if everyone is ready to dive in, 44 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.180 just one quick reminder as we're going through the material, 45 00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:50.460 do be sure to put your questions in the chat. 46 00:01:50.460 --> 00:01:52.140 I'll be helping Dionne monitor that 47 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:54.300 so we can make sure we get to any questions. 48 00:01:54.300 --> 00:01:57.420 And with that, Dionne, I will hand it over to you. 49 00:01:58.380 --> 00:01:59.220 Thanks, Jalen. 50 00:01:59.220 --> 00:02:00.040 That was good. 51 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:01.020 I should just let you keep going. 52 00:02:01.020 --> 00:02:02.620 You're on a roll. 53 00:02:02.620 --> 00:02:05.220 So yeah, these are powerful techniques. 54 00:02:05.220 --> 00:02:08.979 And I love how when we put all these together, 55 00:02:08.979 --> 00:02:10.740 they don't make our life more complex. 56 00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:13.340 They make our work feel more effortless. 57 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:15.680 And because what we're doing is we're going 58 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:17.660 with our natural wiring, 59 00:02:17.660 --> 00:02:20.900 and that helps us to be able to take maximum advantage 60 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:22.740 of what it is we're doing. 61 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:25.820 So today I'm going to deal with something 62 00:02:25.820 --> 00:02:29.620 that I have probably seen leaders struggle the most with 63 00:02:29.620 --> 00:02:32.900 when it comes to leading different types of people. 64 00:02:32.900 --> 00:02:36.540 And if you're a kind-hearted person 65 00:02:36.540 --> 00:02:38.940 and you find it very difficult to, 66 00:02:40.060 --> 00:02:41.580 you don't want to be mean to people, 67 00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:44.460 you want to be known as the person who's kind-hearted 68 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:48.660 and as a leader, that's the kind of reputation you want. 69 00:02:48.660 --> 00:02:52.460 Nonetheless, I have seen so many people struggle 70 00:02:52.460 --> 00:02:53.580 with this issue. 71 00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:56.580 And here's the reason is that we take this idea 72 00:02:56.580 --> 00:02:59.820 that we want to treat others how we want to be treated. 73 00:02:59.820 --> 00:03:03.420 And while that is an overall general coverage idea 74 00:03:03.420 --> 00:03:06.100 that's good, there's a lot of nuance to that, 75 00:03:06.100 --> 00:03:08.900 that it's worth taking the time to break out 76 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:13.300 and to realize that there are really three types of people 77 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:15.140 that you're going to lead. 78 00:03:15.140 --> 00:03:18.780 And why we like to do this as an entire group, 79 00:03:18.780 --> 00:03:23.060 not just with the main leader, the CEO of the company, 80 00:03:23.540 --> 00:03:24.940 the reason we do this with everyone 81 00:03:24.940 --> 00:03:28.260 is so that you can also see how you're being perceived. 82 00:03:28.260 --> 00:03:31.060 And this will also help you in your own career 83 00:03:31.060 --> 00:03:35.980 to position yourself correctly and to be a better team player 84 00:03:35.980 --> 00:03:40.980 or at least to know when you're hitting certain components, 85 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:43.260 as I'll explain in a second. 86 00:03:43.260 --> 00:03:46.300 So, when we're leading a team, right? 87 00:03:46.300 --> 00:03:49.860 There's always that person, you know what I mean? 88 00:03:49.860 --> 00:03:51.900 There's always that person in the team 89 00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:54.580 that just makes our job a little more difficult 90 00:03:54.580 --> 00:03:56.460 or sometimes very difficult. 91 00:03:56.460 --> 00:03:58.420 And sometimes they have the ability 92 00:03:58.420 --> 00:04:01.100 to like suck the joy out of everything you're doing. 93 00:04:01.100 --> 00:04:03.820 You know that person, right? 94 00:04:03.820 --> 00:04:07.060 And don't point fingers, just watch, right? 95 00:04:08.140 --> 00:04:09.460 Don't tag anyone. 96 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:13.860 The idea here is we're sitting thinking about that, 97 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:17.019 how do we manage that person? 98 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:19.820 And in one part of my career, 99 00:04:19.820 --> 00:04:23.460 I did a lot of, initially a lot of CEO consulting. 100 00:04:23.460 --> 00:04:25.140 So I'd go into a company 101 00:04:25.140 --> 00:04:27.700 and then I would help restructure the whole business 102 00:04:27.700 --> 00:04:31.380 from the board, you know, to what legal entity it is, 103 00:04:31.380 --> 00:04:33.180 how to set up the management team 104 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:35.220 and do the whole thing end to end. 105 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:38.420 And there was always that person. 106 00:04:38.420 --> 00:04:42.580 And that person was the one that would create, 107 00:04:42.580 --> 00:04:46.700 they're usually pretty noisy, they're very scratchy, 108 00:04:46.700 --> 00:04:47.980 you know what I mean by that? 109 00:04:48.020 --> 00:04:48.860 You don't want to go near them 110 00:04:48.860 --> 00:04:50.900 and there's always grinding involved. 111 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:55.180 They just seem to be difficult to manage, 112 00:04:55.180 --> 00:04:57.140 to position, to lead. 113 00:04:58.140 --> 00:05:00.020 And so, you know, and sometimes. 114 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:06.160 the rest of the team feels, man, our team would be so much better if that person was easier to lead. 115 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:13.280 And so we're going to talk about how to deal with that person. And, you know, here's a bit 116 00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:17.360 of the weird thing of all this. At some point or another, maybe we've all been that person. 117 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:24.320 You know, maybe we've all had our moment of not too smart, being difficult, and pulled back 118 00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:29.440 afterwards. You know, I really didn't need to be that difficult about that. So this is about really 119 00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:35.600 talking about all of us in some degree or another. So but as a leader, having having tools in your 120 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:41.840 toolbox to know how to deal with the three types of people, knowing what identifies them in that 121 00:05:41.840 --> 00:05:49.200 group, and then knowing what strategy is best in terms of leading that person. So, you know, 122 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:54.320 when it comes to reality, the first job, one of the first jobs, we always say the first job of a 123 00:05:54.320 --> 00:06:00.480 leader is to define reality as it is, not as we hope it will be. And so sometimes we just have to 124 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.280 call the thing bluntly what it is, as a leader, it doesn't mean we're being negative, we just got to 125 00:06:05.280 --> 00:06:11.680 be very, very clear about what it is. And when you do that at a company level, that's one thing. But 126 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:17.920 when you have to do it for an individual, that kind of feedback can be hard to hear. And I was 127 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:24.480 always fascinated by the fact that Elon Musk brings up the point that he always invites negative 128 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:30.240 feedback from his friends and from his some people who work closely with him. And he's and his reason 129 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.480 is, he said, Look, I love hearing the positive stuff. And you know, it's encouraging all that, 130 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:38.960 but the stuff that I grow from the stuff that really helps me get there is the negative feedback. 131 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:46.640 And so how do we give really helpful negative feedback to people, you know, who are being 132 00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:51.120 difficult to lead or are causing, you know, problems. So we all know that when you get a 133 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:56.560 group of people together, you're going to have problems, you know, so if you find the perfect 134 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:01.520 company, don't join it, because you'll mess it up. So don't do that. So you know that the reason is 135 00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:05.920 where that we all just people and when you put a bunch of people together, you're just going to 136 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.840 have stuck, we have different backgrounds, different ways we're raised different ways, 137 00:07:09.840 --> 00:07:16.000 we think confrontation should work, we have different ideas about what the work environment 138 00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:20.880 should be. But as the leader, it's your job to set the atmosphere and to set the rules of 139 00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:27.920 engagement to set the rules about how we work together. And so I want to pick three categories 140 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:36.800 of people. And I love if you've read any Henry Cloud books, boundaries for leaders, any of those 141 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:44.560 kind of necessary endings to the books of his I really like been very interested in Henry Cloud's 142 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:51.840 view of the shaping of leaders. And, and so he uses a classification, which we'll borrow for 143 00:07:51.840 --> 00:07:57.520 the sake of this conversation. And he calls them the the wise, the foolish and the evil. 144 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:04.480 And so here's the thing, it's not that somebody is always wise, or always foolish, always evil, 145 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:09.600 we just have modes on days or in some stages of our life, maybe when we're going through a 146 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:16.000 difficult thing, where we might be foolish in an area. So how do we know the wise, you know, 147 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:22.000 how do we know somebody is wise? Well, you can tell when somebody is wise, because when you 148 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:27.760 approach them with negative feedback, they immediately own the problem. That's the big 149 00:08:27.760 --> 00:08:33.360 indication, they own it immediately. In fact, many times, they'll even thank you. And you'll go and 150 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:38.799 say, Hey, john, are you aware that in meetings, you've, you know, you speak over people, you're 151 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.840 very dominant, sometimes, and when you have opinions, you don't like to let other people 152 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:48.320 explain their different points of view than you have, or you where you do that, and they look at 153 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:54.480 you surprised, go, I had no idea. Thank you so much for telling me, you know, wow, okay, I got it. 154 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.480 And especially if you've got two or three examples, like this morning at the nine o'clock meeting, 155 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.200 you know, so and so said this, you said that, and you've got real examples. And we've talked in past 156 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:08.960 trainings about how to give that feedback, we're dealing with what are the strategies we're going 157 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:14.960 to employ once we give the feedback. So we're taking that idea that we talked on last time to 158 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:20.480 the next level, when somebody owns the feedback straight away, you're dealing with a wise person. 159 00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:28.240 And so, you know, they are willing to adjust themselves to the truth that you're presenting, 160 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.840 it may not be the truth, but it's the truth you're presenting, and they're willing 161 00:09:32.400 --> 00:09:37.520 to be flexible enough to adjust to your truth. What they don't do is fight you about what the 162 00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:42.800 truth is. Well, that's just your perception. That's just what you think that I have a different 163 00:09:42.800 --> 00:09:49.520 opinion, and all that sort of thing. And, and they see this feedback as a gift. So there's a certain 164 00:09:49.520 --> 00:09:56.320 humility to this, to this person. And so, you know, that's how we can tell immediately we're 165 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.080 dealing with a wise person, when we're dealing with a foolish person, there's 166 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.440 always deflection. So the first one is ownership. The second is 167 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:09.880 deflection, they deflect, they avoid ownership at all costs, 168 00:10:09.900 --> 00:10:13.720 it's always someone else's fault. You didn't send me the 169 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.120 email, I never got the memo, nobody told me. Now, here's the 170 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.720 weird thing. They're often the smartest person in the room. Not 171 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:23.760 just that they think they're smart, but it's often they 172 00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:26.800 actually are the smartest person in the room. Often they're the 173 00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:31.080 high producers. And so when the truth comes out, you know, when 174 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.600 when you want to shine the light on them, so to speak, you know, 175 00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:37.840 it's like the light hurts their eyes. So they try to dim the 176 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.200 light. That's the image I have, you know, when you go to a wise 177 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.400 person, you shine the light, they look at what you're doing, 178 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:45.600 they look at where you're shining on their lives, and they 179 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.000 say, Oh, my, thank you. That's really helpful. But a foolish 180 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.800 person does try to divert the light. And if they can't do 181 00:10:51.800 --> 00:10:53.960 that, they try to dim the light. Well, I just think you're 182 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.080 overstating, it's not that serious. You know, it's very 183 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:00.760 dismissive, dismissive. It's not really a big deal. I mean, we 184 00:11:00.760 --> 00:11:03.400 all do that, right? We all talk like that. Hey, it was just a 185 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:06.280 bad day. You know, sometimes I get enthusiastic. That's one of 186 00:11:06.280 --> 00:11:09.280 my favorite ones. Well, you know, I'm a very passionate 187 00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:13.120 person. No, you're really annoying when you do that. So 188 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:15.120 you know, that type of thing. Well, it's just I'm just 189 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.960 passionate. And so it's all the dim the lights methods. So 190 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.760 they're very smart, very capable. And so they will deny 191 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:27.400 the seriousness of the issue, almost making it out like you're 192 00:11:27.400 --> 00:11:31.960 making a mountain out of nothing. And so and one of the 193 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.960 things I noticed that almost always are annoyed or angry. And 194 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.640 often, you know, then they end up with a meeting after the 195 00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:41.600 meeting, you know, the one that happens at the water cooler or 196 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.960 down the hallway, and they end up talking about, you know, this 197 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.080 meeting with someone else, or there's a meeting after the 198 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.200 meeting. And so they often leave you as the leader feeling a 199 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.720 little bit hopeless, or like, hey, man, I really didn't. I 200 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:59.720 didn't didn't make any progress here. So the issue here is not 201 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:03.160 so much what you've done here. It's the way that they received 202 00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:05.600 your feedback. Now, if you did your feedback poorly, fairly 203 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.200 enough, but I'm going to assume based on other training, you 204 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:13.320 know how to give the feedback. And we want to talk through, you 205 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.280 know, when we're dealing with this foolish person. And again, 206 00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:19.920 it's not that they're foolish in every area. It's just in this 207 00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:24.280 area, this one area, they're being foolish. And so don't let 208 00:12:24.280 --> 00:12:28.360 them dim the light. Don't let them deflect the light. Let them 209 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:32.040 stand serious. Don't let them diminish the seriousness of the 210 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:35.960 matter. You hold your ground as a leader, because that's your 211 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:39.640 position. Now, if they genuinely, you can see this 212 00:12:39.640 --> 00:12:44.080 humility. And in the humility, you realize, oh, you know what, 213 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.560 maybe maybe I'm overstating this a little bit. But 214 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.080 nonetheless, usually, as you know, from the previous 215 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.240 training, you're going to have very precise examples of so 216 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.960 you're going to go there, hey, on this day, this happened on 217 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:59.320 this day, this happened. And I wanted to have two or three 218 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:03.040 examples so that you knew the extent of what I'm saying. 219 00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:06.840 Because here's the weirdest thing about this. If you give 220 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.440 feedback to wise people, even if they're wise, and they own the 221 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.760 problem, and you don't give precise examples, what will 222 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:18.080 happen with a wise person is they'll sort of over, they'll 223 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.200 overdo their response in the sense of, they'll think that 224 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.200 it's way bigger than it actually is. So the wise person will tend 225 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.520 to amplify the problem unless you give very precise examples 226 00:13:28.520 --> 00:13:30.840 so that you go no, no, no, no, I'm not saying view that it's 227 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:34.200 not that big, just tone it down. We're just talking about this 228 00:13:34.400 --> 00:13:37.560 one thing, the foolish person goes the other way, they 229 00:13:37.560 --> 00:13:42.000 diminish the problem, and try to make it smaller than it is. So 230 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.200 therefore, having actual examples of what you're talking 231 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.560 about in your feedback, hey, I appreciate contributions you 232 00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:51.960 make. But here's one area of growth, we need to talk about 233 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:56.160 this thing that you do. And then the last category is evil. This 234 00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:59.200 is when people are threatening. Well, you know, if you get 235 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.520 words like I'm going to call my lawyer or any of that sort of 236 00:14:02.520 --> 00:14:07.360 threatening language, you are in a completely different strategy. 237 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:14.120 When I was a younger leader, I misjudged the importance of 238 00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:18.680 identifying these threatening, this threatening type of talk. 239 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.800 And you know, that can, that can range. So when you hear threats, 240 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.840 you know, there's a different strategy than what you do with 241 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.760 the other two. And we'll talk about that, you know, in just a 242 00:14:30.760 --> 00:14:33.880 second. So here's the bottom line, I'd love you to learn from 243 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:36.920 this or take from this as a model for your leadership moving 244 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:44.040 forward is you just because you are a certain type of person, 245 00:14:44.280 --> 00:14:49.120 you can't lead everybody in the same way. You have to have more 246 00:14:49.160 --> 00:14:52.440 breadth to your leadership, you have to have more substance to 247 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.240 your leadership, you can't have a, well, I'm like this, and I'm 248 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.000 going to treat everybody like me. So each of 249 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:06.320 us, you know, we all have, we've all at different parts of our careers, encountered difficult 250 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:10.720 people. And I'm not talking about people, again, who are necessarily difficult all the time, I'm 251 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:16.960 talking about that moment of foolishness, call it and maybe a kinder word would be an area of 252 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:21.440 blindness, they're just blind as to what they're doing in one area, they don't realize how they're 253 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:27.760 coming across. And if you go back to the previous training, we've talked about, you know, the art 254 00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:34.400 of mastering difficult conversations around this. And so, you know, as you're sitting thinking about 255 00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:39.440 these three types of people, I created in a little worksheet, a little cheat sheet for you, 256 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:47.600 that you can look it up. So let's just, let's just create a very simple sort of table. So the 257 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:54.240 table in the in the columns are going to have wise, foolish, evil. And then in the in the other 258 00:15:54.240 --> 00:16:00.640 three columns are going to be what's the indicator? What's the strategy? What's the outcome, indicator, 259 00:16:00.640 --> 00:16:05.120 strategy, outcome, and then with that map, we're going to figure out so let me fill that out again, 260 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:11.840 indicator, strategy, and outcome at the top. And then down the side, it's wise, foolish, evil, and 261 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:17.280 then that matrix, we're going to fill out that little spreadsheet. So how do you know you're 262 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:22.000 speaking to someone wise, we already talked about they own the problem, there's that immediate sense 263 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:28.160 of ownership, they'll thank you. And so what's the strategy for somebody who immediately owns the 264 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:34.000 problem? The strategy is growth and development. Okay, well, let's talk about a growth strategy. 265 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.960 Let's talk about how you can do that better. Here's a program, or let's work together. Why don't we 266 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:43.840 meet for, you know, why don't we meet for 30 minutes once a week, and we'll talk about how 267 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:48.800 I can help you or here's, you know, you can put them on a program, the point is you help them grow. 268 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:55.440 So the strategy is growth. And the outcome is you just have a wiser person. For the foolish person, 269 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:02.560 the indicator is deflection, deflection, minimizing, you know, trying to make the light 270 00:17:02.560 --> 00:17:08.720 go away or make the light less. So deflection. Now, the strategy here is containment, 271 00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:16.800 you have to contain this person. Why? Because of the outcome you want is self awareness. So I'll 272 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:24.400 give an example. I had a team that I had to lead an investment group that did international 273 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:29.280 foreign exchange transactions. And it was an AI technology that traded, you know, 274 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:35.280 forex currencies, and so on. I say all that to say it was a very complex and very technical business. 275 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:42.000 On the one side, you had very complex AI. On the other side, you had a lot of regulatory controls. 276 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:48.320 And then in addition to that, you had a very complex issues around geopolitical movements of 277 00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:53.360 what forces currencies to trade against each other. And so I had two people on this team, 278 00:17:53.360 --> 00:18:00.880 both who had over 30 years experience. And with these two guys, who are both VP level people, 279 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:07.280 would get into it with each other in meetings, and it would get pretty heated. But as almost always, 280 00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:13.680 the same guy who would sort of wind everything up, and the minute you challenged him, he went 281 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.560 straight into I've been doing this for 30 years, and I'm the you know, whatever, he did that game. 282 00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:24.320 And which, by the way, is, you know, is just appeal to illegitimate authority. But anyway, 283 00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:27.920 he would play this little game. And so I started talking to him, I said, Are you aware 284 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:32.160 that in meetings? Well, that's because, you know, john over there is always 285 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.920 doing this, and he's an idiot, and he doesn't know what he's doing. And you know, I have to 286 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:40.080 work with, you know, basically, he was this genius, and he had to put up with all us. And 287 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:44.160 again, I said to you, often the foolish person is the smartest person in the room. Just to give an 288 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:50.960 example, this guy was I met him at an international finance conference, where he was one of the he was 289 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:57.680 the keynote speaker. And he had been running his own and done advisory, I watched him literally 290 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:04.880 debate three senior bank executives, Credit Suisse, Bank of America CEO, I loved watched him 291 00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:11.920 debate them under the table. He was he's really smart. And here he is doing his little deflection 292 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:16.720 thing. And I said, Look, you know, we've done this training, right? He said, Yeah, I know, 293 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.400 you're going to do the whole deflection. I said, all you're doing, you haven't owned a single 294 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.200 thing yet is well, you know, and he just, you're making too much of it, the usual stuff. So I said, 295 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:33.840 Okay, here's the deal. From now on, in each meeting, you get to ask one clarifying question. 296 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.000 At some point in the meeting, once you've said that you can say nothing more. 297 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.160 If we don't, if you don't keep to that, I'm not going to allow you to come to these 298 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.560 meetings for a month. But for the next month, you get one clarifying question. 299 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:53.200 I mean, he was outraged, you know, at my seniority, and I'm treated like a child. I mean, 300 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:58.880 literally lost his, you know, you know, he lost his marbles, and he was upset. He was truly upset. 301 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.220 And so then he proceeded the very next meeting to ignore all 302 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:08.240 that. So I said, Okay, we're amping it up. Remember how I 303 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.640 said you can't come to meetings for a month, you can't come to 304 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.080 meetings for a month. And after that, he could come to meetings 305 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:15.720 and say nothing for another month. Then he got his one 306 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.320 question back the month after that. He was livid out of his 307 00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:24.360 mind. But what I noticed is one of two things happen, it either 308 00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:28.620 causes a separation, and they go their own way, or they start to 309 00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:32.720 become self aware. In his case, fortunately, he became self 310 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.000 aware. And as we got into a couple of months down the road, 311 00:20:36.360 --> 00:20:39.840 he got to the point where he was asking his clarifying question. 312 00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:42.760 And then he started to become very respectful and saying, 313 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:46.280 Look, I'm not trying to be difficult now. I just want to 314 00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:49.200 make sure we understand this. And when somebody got upset with 315 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.960 him, he said, Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to use that tone. 316 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.640 And he suddenly became self aware. And about a year later, I 317 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.860 was doing his, I was doing his evaluation of how he was doing. 318 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:06.220 Because the year previously, I asked him to rate himself on 319 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:08.940 his people skills from one to 10. And he said he was a nine. 320 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:12.340 And I told him he was a one. And that really had a fun 321 00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:17.300 conversation. So three were not on the same page. And so, but a 322 00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:19.920 year later, he said, Yeah, maybe I'm a three or four. I know I 323 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.980 thought it was a nine, but I'm not so sure anymore. I said, No, 324 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:25.020 I really think you're coming along. And this time I had a 325 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:30.160 slightly higher rating than he had for himself. So what happens 326 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.920 in these scenarios, when you are dealing with that foolish 327 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.520 behavior in a person containment, hey, you at the 328 00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:42.280 Christmas party, you got out of control, you drank too much. And 329 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:45.040 every time we have these events, this is the second third event 330 00:21:45.040 --> 00:21:47.840 where you've done this. So you don't get to come to the 331 00:21:47.840 --> 00:21:49.800 Christmas party, or you come to the Christmas party, you get 332 00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:53.440 don't get to drink any alcohol or whatever the problem is. So 333 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:58.180 containment, so you contain them, why to bring about 334 00:21:58.180 --> 00:22:02.020 self awareness, you don't bring them growth strategies. Most 335 00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:04.660 novice leaders do this, no matter what the problem is, they 336 00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:07.740 just what if I grow and I invest in the person, they'll become 337 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:12.060 better? No, they will not. Because you haven't come to the 338 00:22:12.060 --> 00:22:17.220 point of self awareness yet. You can only help someone grow with 339 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:23.100 self aware. Whereas one pastor said, you know, grace is for the 340 00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:27.800 repentant. The management leadership equivalent is growth 341 00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:32.400 is for the self aware. So don't just use growth strategies for 342 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.360 everyone. That's not the case. For the evil people, the 343 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:38.480 indicators, there's threats, there's threatening behavior in 344 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.760 some form. And the strategy here is protection. What kind of 345 00:22:42.760 --> 00:22:46.640 protection, call the lawyers, call the police, do what you 346 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:50.320 have to do. And the outcome here is separation. Once you are at 347 00:22:50.320 --> 00:22:55.460 that point, you are in an abusive situation. And there is 348 00:22:55.460 --> 00:23:00.580 no growth strategy, maybe even no containment strategy that's 349 00:23:00.580 --> 00:23:03.620 going to help here. This is particularly brutal with 350 00:23:03.620 --> 00:23:07.300 narcissistic people who are so and if you don't know what a 351 00:23:07.300 --> 00:23:10.740 narcissist is, that's definitely worth looking up because I bet 352 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:14.020 you know, one or two. And, you know, and I've watched 353 00:23:14.020 --> 00:23:18.500 particularly in like divorce cases where Christian families 354 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.280 and all the rest, but suddenly they hit this situation. And 355 00:23:22.280 --> 00:23:27.680 the containment was tried didn't work and resulted in terrible 356 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.160 threats. And so in that situation, protection is all 357 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.320 you've got. And it's sad when that's what we've got left is, 358 00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:41.600 you know, you know, lawyers and police and so on. So I'm going 359 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:45.400 to assume for the sake of our conversation, that for the most 360 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.900 part, you're not dealing with any evil issues for the for this 361 00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.260 conversation. If you are, you know what to do about that. And 362 00:23:53.260 --> 00:23:56.200 for the but the harder one is what to do with the foolish 363 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:01.020 person. Here's the bottom line as a leader. At some point, you 364 00:24:01.020 --> 00:24:06.020 have to master the art of difficult conversations. And 365 00:24:06.020 --> 00:24:11.220 here's what really helps me I think, am I being kind by not 366 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:15.260 giving them this feedback? And the answer is no, I am not being 367 00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:18.980 kind. I'm not being kind or loving by not giving them 368 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:23.200 truthful feedback. So the idea that I'm being kind by 369 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:28.460 softening and over overlooking poor performance, poor behavior, 370 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.800 especially if it's somewhat disruptive to the organization 371 00:24:32.800 --> 00:24:36.520 or even destructive to the organization, I have to speak 372 00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:41.360 up. Second, if I really want to be kind, then I'm going to also 373 00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:46.620 be really direct. It's only kind when it's direct. It's not 374 00:24:46.620 --> 00:24:50.260 kind when you say it so softly, they don't even feel corrected. 375 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:55.280 Because foolishness, remember, needs self awareness and self 376 00:24:55.280 --> 00:24:58.700 awareness needs very direct conversation. 377 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:06.080 So I found that, you know, we've all learned about the sandwich effect, right? Give them a compliment, 378 00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:09.520 bring the negative thing in, and then give them a compliment. Everybody heard that. I think we've 379 00:25:09.520 --> 00:25:15.680 talked about that ourselves. Yeah, that only works for the first group. That works for wives. It 380 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.440 doesn't work for foolish people. And the reason is they use the two pieces of the bread, the two 381 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:28.000 positive elements, as a means to deflect and diminish the issue. So I have found that the most 382 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.000 direct thing, you can just sit down right at the bed and say, John, we have a problem. What's the 383 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:40.000 problem? When you're in meetings, this has occurred. This has happened on this case, this case, and this 384 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.720 case. And then they start talking, saying, when I'm finished speaking, then I'm going to give you 385 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:49.840 an opportunity. Because you can see there's already pushback. So I'll make sure that I've 386 00:25:49.840 --> 00:25:55.520 finished saying what I want to say. And then I wait to hear what I'm dealing with. But sometimes 387 00:25:55.520 --> 00:26:02.720 they'll surprise you and go, OK, no, I can see that. All right. And you know this. But there are 388 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:10.160 the hardest ones, or what I call the clever foolish people. They know what they have to say. 389 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:17.920 They know the answer you're looking for. And they go, OK, you know, yeah, yeah, no, I can kind of 390 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:24.640 see that. And I go, that's not ownership. That's just very clever deflection. And I go, yeah, 391 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:30.880 that's not enough. I need you to own this. This is what ownership looks like. I need you to own this. 392 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:36.160 Well, I'm not going to own that. You know, we all do. And then out comes the real deflection. 393 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:41.440 So I found that it's only kind when it's really direct. And the second thing, it's only kind 394 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:50.480 when it's insistent. John, I'm insisting that you take responsibility for this issue. 395 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:58.000 When you're doing that, I found that part of the insistence is, and I'm insisting because 396 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.200 it's having an impact on the team this way. It's having an impact on your performance this way. 397 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:10.080 And John, you're misrepresenting yourself. You've got these other strengths. But in this, 398 00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:15.760 it clouds everything you do. This is the way you seem. And I don't think that's really who you are. 399 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.720 So you can give them a lot of ways out. So I wanted to just take a second and say, 400 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.240 if any of you are dealing with feedback, anybody have to do, you know, quarterly reviews, 401 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.920 half annual reviews or whatever it is. I know we haven't got to the review stuff yet, 402 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:38.080 but we'll get to that. But if you're doing the reviews, there has to be a moment when you now, 403 00:27:38.080 --> 00:27:41.360 if you're again, if you're dealing with a wise person, and then you say, hey, man, 404 00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:46.080 I've found this area, I think would help you grow. I just noticed small thing. It's a polishing 405 00:27:46.080 --> 00:27:50.320 thing. You're doing really well. Here's a growth strategy to help you grow to the next level. 406 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:55.600 To the foolish person, you just have to get into it and stay insistent and stay direct. 407 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.640 Because that is the kindest thing you can do. And I also found that another practical thing that 408 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:08.320 helps with people like that is if you're having the conversation goes a lot, goes south quickly. 409 00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:13.760 Say, I would like you to take tomorrow off, come back the next day, and we'll pick up this 410 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:17.200 conversation again. And I want you to prose it. I don't want you to say anymore, 411 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.920 especially if it starts getting heated. Just stop the conversation and say, from this point on, 412 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:27.680 let's pick this up in a few days time or two days time, and we'll get back to it. I found that you 413 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:32.080 need to let them get out of the office because they can end up having the meeting after the 414 00:28:32.080 --> 00:28:38.080 meeting. And that can be pretty destructive to the culture. So I think that's a practical thing. 415 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:43.600 Any questions? Jalen, I haven't been following the questions. 416 00:28:45.280 --> 00:28:50.880 There were a couple of comments. There's one from Tyler. It says, it's also helpful when the team 417 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:55.600 gives each other feedback instead of waiting on the supervisor or owner to give the feedback. It's 418 00:28:55.600 --> 00:29:01.680 a cultural thing. And Amber was saying also, it's really important to be direct with specific 419 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:06.800 examples. So yeah. That's really critical. Exactly. No, good points, Amber. And I think, 420 00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:13.040 well, I want to give you, so obviously, some of you may not want to fill out the worksheet because 421 00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:20.240 it's not directly relevant. But what a useful cheat sheet for you to have at all times. Even 422 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:26.000 for those of you that are parents, this is true too for your kids, right? It's the same cheat 423 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.560 sheet. Now, of course, we're not talking about kids being evil, but we certainly would. I found 424 00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:36.800 that most of it is around the foolish thing. Most of it is around that. And so having clear 425 00:29:36.800 --> 00:29:43.280 containment strategies for your kids, super useful. And it's always amazing the similarity 426 00:29:43.280 --> 00:29:52.560 between leadership and parenting. So I had a friend who ran a franchise, and he said, 427 00:29:52.560 --> 00:29:59.920 running a franchise is a lot like adult daycare. So I didn't know if that was, I never. 428 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.000 for anyone before. So, Robin. 429 00:30:05.560 --> 00:30:10.960 Yeah, I wanted to, you know, one of our core values is trust, 430 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.040 you can have, you can trust me to have your best interest at 431 00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:16.800 heart. And I can have you, I can trust you to have my best 432 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:21.000 interest at heart. And you can we can trust me to have Noah's 433 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.680 best and you to have Noah's best interest at heart. And when I'm 434 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.200 talking when we're talking about these foolish people, the 435 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.120 difficult people, the ones that deflect the ones that, you know, 436 00:30:32.120 --> 00:30:38.280 do that diversion idea, I, I perceive, and that happens that 437 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.040 they're just trying to defend themselves, they're afraid that 438 00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:44.360 they're going to get fired that, you know, that they're just not 439 00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:48.840 secure in their position. And, and rather than, you know, 440 00:30:49.520 --> 00:30:53.520 listen and own the problem, they, they deflect it and, and 441 00:30:53.560 --> 00:30:58.000 don't own it. Because if they do, then then now they, they 442 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.720 think that now they're giving you permission to let them go. 443 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.240 Right? Yeah, I mean, that's a good point, Robin. It's a good 444 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.000 observation. It is insightful. I think almost all deflection is 445 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.200 based on fear, you probably could make that case, right? 446 00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:19.360 It's fear of the truth fear of, you know, but yes, I think 447 00:31:19.360 --> 00:31:22.240 giving them reassurance straight away and saying, Look, we're not 448 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.320 talking about you getting fired. Now, if this persists, that might 449 00:31:25.320 --> 00:31:28.280 be another conversation, but we're not there yet. So I think 450 00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:31.400 take it off the table. Yeah, you don't want people to feel you 451 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.800 don't want to threaten them. But you do have to be direct. So 452 00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:38.320 that and again, remember, the objective is to create self 453 00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:41.680 awareness, why so that you can make them wise, the idea is to 454 00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.680 win them. So you know, and you can say that, and the reason we 455 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.240 do this training with everybody, so that when you having that 456 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:51.960 conversation, your team members, you say you do know what comes 457 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.680 next, right? I literally had this happen in our team. We went 458 00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.680 through this training, and then somebody was deflecting. And I 459 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.120 stopped and I said, you do know you're deflecting, right? And 460 00:32:02.120 --> 00:32:04.600 you do know what the strategy is going to come next. And he 461 00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:09.640 burst out laughing. He said, I am so sorry. You know, 462 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.640 immediately, he went from zero to 60 straight away to self 463 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:16.280 awareness. And I said, Okay, well, you made that easy. So I 464 00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:20.160 think it is it is built into your culture, that you people 465 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.560 are aware that this is how they're going to be managed, or 466 00:32:23.560 --> 00:32:28.640 how they're going to be led. Okay, Jalen, you want to, we do 467 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:32.400 have the little worksheet, we drop the worksheet. Yep, we've 468 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.360 got the worksheet, grab the worksheet. And maybe even if you 469 00:32:36.360 --> 00:32:38.480 don't have something to discuss, I'll just leave it to the 470 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.120 different teams. Just discuss, you know, how you could use 471 00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:45.640 this, maybe you have an immediate application, or maybe 472 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:48.560 it's just something to bear in mind as a as a tool moving 473 00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:53.120 forward. And we'll jump back here. Let's do let's do five 474 00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:55.720 minutes to since we've taken extra time upfront here. 475 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:00.000 Okay, perfect. Well, we are going to separate into our 476 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.400 breakout rooms. Now, leaders, if you need access to the 477 00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.240 worksheet link, I just put it in the comments, you can grab 478 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:09.560 that before we separate. If you have any trouble moving to your 479 00:33:09.560 --> 00:33:13.160 room, just post in the comments, the name of your team, and I'll 480 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.520 help you get over manually. And then solo leaders, we do have a 481 00:33:16.520 --> 00:33:18.960 group called general, you can go in there and interact 482 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.360 together. And we'll have the remainder of the time for 483 00:33:22.360 --> 00:33:26.320 questions when we come back to the main meeting at 55. So here 484 00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:30.880 we go. I'm opening up all the rooms. All right, so it is 485 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.160 question and answer time. So if any of you have questions, or if 486 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.960 something just isn't working, and you want some more insight, 487 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:42.680 please feel free to post in the chat or raise your hand. And 488 00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:46.360 Dionne will be more than happy to answer or elaborate. So I'll 489 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:48.000 be checking the chat. 490 00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:51.360 Yeah, there you go, Tyler. 491 00:33:53.920 --> 00:34:00.000 We were kind of talking about what it's like when you don't 492 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.520 necessarily agree with the feedback, but you want to still 493 00:34:02.520 --> 00:34:08.159 accept it. Right. So I think there's a kind way to do that. 494 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:12.320 That's not necessarily deflecting. So how could you be 495 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:16.000 a wise but not foolish person when you don't necessarily agree 496 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:16.719 with feedback? 497 00:34:18.080 --> 00:34:24.600 Oh, it's a good question, actually. Yes. So I appreciate 498 00:34:24.600 --> 00:34:30.480 that. So what my personal thing has always been to tell people, 499 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.520 I will give this very serious thought because it comes from 500 00:34:33.520 --> 00:34:36.560 you. So it's honouring. Hey, Tyler, thanks for sharing that 501 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:39.159 with me. But because it comes from me, I want to get that 502 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.400 really serious thought. I might talk to one of other two, you 503 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.080 know, friends or whatever, and just bounce it off them too, if 504 00:34:45.080 --> 00:34:48.440 it's appropriate. If that's okay with you, can I get back to you 505 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.840 in a week? Or can I get back to you in two weeks about that? I 506 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:55.080 really want to consider what you said. So I'm saying that because 507 00:34:55.080 --> 00:34:59.680 I totally disagree with what you just said. And I once 508 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.780 I once got off the stage on a speaking platform and a guy 509 00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:07.980 walked up to me afterwards. And he said, you know, you're one of 510 00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:11.580 the most arrogant people I've ever met. I can't believe that 511 00:35:11.620 --> 00:35:15.300 and he just launched. And but it's unfortunate with somebody 512 00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:21.820 that I was connected with on the same leadership team. So I just 513 00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:25.340 waited for his moment, I could see he was and I didn't think 514 00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:30.320 there was an ounce to his feedback. So I said that to him, 515 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.280 let me think about that. I was, you know, I was talking about 516 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:38.640 exercising self control. And I said, healthy, and I get back to 517 00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:43.220 and I said, I said, Give me a week or two. And over two weeks 518 00:35:43.220 --> 00:35:45.440 later, I went back to him and I said, Okay, I spoke to three 519 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.760 friends. This is who this person is this person, this person, 520 00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:51.760 every single one of them disagreed with you and do not 521 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:56.380 believe that your your feedback was valid. That's all I said. I 522 00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:58.940 didn't say I disagreed. I said they disagreed. So it showed I 523 00:35:58.940 --> 00:36:01.980 went through a process to get because of his seniority, I 524 00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:06.060 couldn't just dismiss him. And, you know, there are just weird 525 00:36:06.060 --> 00:36:10.420 people who want to use and manipulate systems, but I think 526 00:36:10.780 --> 00:36:14.780 showing serious feedback and showing that you're open to it 527 00:36:14.780 --> 00:36:18.280 because you could be blind. And you know what I also found? It's 528 00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:21.980 rare that there's nothing in it, there might be something may 529 00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:27.420 have been massively overstated, or there's actually a relational 530 00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:32.940 issue. And they use that to try to, you know, level things up. 531 00:36:34.780 --> 00:36:37.820 To me, if the conversation continues, you're not really 532 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:41.900 deflecting it, you're able to, like continue to, and you may 533 00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:45.940 not come like you may not end with the first thing that he 534 00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:48.520 said, or she said, you know, you might be able to come out 535 00:36:48.520 --> 00:36:49.960 with a solution that's different, which isn't 536 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:52.080 deflecting, but it's just different. 537 00:36:52.120 --> 00:36:55.880 So yeah, I think you're taking ownership. That's the point. I'm 538 00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:58.800 taking ownership of that feedback, even though I disagree, 539 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.400 I'm still taking ownership of it, because I'm, because I'm 540 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.520 humble enough to know that I can't see everything. And you, 541 00:37:05.560 --> 00:37:08.860 even if I feel it's exaggerated, look, the reason it's a blind 542 00:37:08.860 --> 00:37:14.320 spot is because it's a blind spot. Because you can't see. So 543 00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:18.060 there's always this, there's always this possibility, and 544 00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:20.940 getting other people who are close to you to give feedback. 545 00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:24.260 You know, I've done that on other occasions and gone back to 546 00:37:24.260 --> 00:37:27.220 somebody and they said, No, I think that you may be a bit 547 00:37:27.220 --> 00:37:29.340 overstated, but I think they actually have a point. And I go, 548 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:34.840 Really, I do that. Oh, wow. Okay. Robin. Surprise. 549 00:37:36.020 --> 00:37:42.420 Yeah, I just wanted to chime in. Here at NOAA, we have core 550 00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:46.980 values and 20 cultural commitments. And so a lot of 551 00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:50.600 times, it's not a an issue. And other one of our core values is 552 00:37:50.600 --> 00:37:54.640 the service. And we strive for zero missed inspection. So if 553 00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:58.480 we're missing inspections, it's pretty easy to go back to, you 554 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.400 know, whoever's in charge of that the operations manager or 555 00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:04.440 the inspectors, and say you're missing inspections. And so 556 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.960 there's no question about the truth of the matter. So I think 557 00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:14.660 having a good core values and good, and we have what we call 558 00:38:14.660 --> 00:38:17.860 cultural commitments, that it makes life a whole lot easier 559 00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:22.140 when you're talking to one of your people about it, and, and 560 00:38:22.140 --> 00:38:24.020 you have, you know, something to substantiate it. 561 00:38:25.020 --> 00:38:25.700 Very cool. 562 00:38:27.020 --> 00:38:27.900 Can't add to that. 563 00:38:31.220 --> 00:38:32.340 Over to you, Jalen. 564 00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:36.700 All right. Those were great questions, but we are out of 565 00:38:36.700 --> 00:38:40.120 time. So don't forget, we do have the end of call survey that 566 00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:42.580 will happen as soon as you exit out of here, please be sure to 567 00:38:42.580 --> 00:38:46.880 share your feedback. And we will see you here next week. Bye, 568 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:47.640 everyone.