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Okay, everybody.

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So my name is Renee, and most of you have seen me on prayer calls, I help lead a bunch

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of different stuff.

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And I'm actually excited to do this co-ed version tonight of love seats really focused

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on what I would say, not just sex, but sex and intimacy, because intimacy is more than

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just sex, right?

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I actually watched Jackie do her dating 101 class last night.

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It's been so long since I've heard her teach that I thought I better get brushed up on

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what she's like saying at the front end.

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And so I wanted to get a chance to do that.

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Thank you for those of you who were brave enough to send me questions on the form.

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So let me just tell you why I like being able to share about this topic.

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For those of you that don't know, I ran a pregnancy center for 20 years.

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And so I have been speaking to middle schools, high schools, young adults, grown adults,

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couples one on one in school and church settings about the topic of sex, intimacy, unplanned

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pregnancies, STDs.

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So I pretty much if you think Jackie doesn't have a filter, I also do not have a filter

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on this topic.

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However, I'm also aware that not everyone's comfort zone is the same.

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And so as appropriately, we will discuss topics and answer questions that were submitted

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and will answer questions that people submit to me privately.

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If I think they're appropriate for a co-ed environment, if I think it would be more appropriate

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for Jackie and David to answer separately in the Ask Jackies, I'm going to go ahead

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and do that.

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And I would actually say, if questions come up that are a little bit more detailed from

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this session, it would be great for you to put it in the Ask Jackie.

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The good news about doing the Ask Jackie form now is not everyone's going to see all your

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questions.

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So it kind of gives you a little bit of kind of secret and then be able to do that.

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So the rules for engagement tonight is I'm going to share what Jackie in this program

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thinks are the dynamics and the guardrails as it relates to intimacy and sex.

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There are some of you on this call or some of you watching in playback who might have

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stricter guardrails and some of you might have more loose guardrails.

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That is okay.

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I'm just trying to express what would honor Jackie and this program.

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So here's what I'm going to ask that you do tonight.

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I'm going to ask that you not ask questions of the community in the chat box and give

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answers because I can't monitor to make sure the answers and the advice you're giving matches

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what Jackie is approving as part of the program.

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And so if you guys want to have conversations offline, not on this Zoom, you know, of course

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that may happen, but for tonight, I mean, I don't care if you guys are talking to each

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other or clarifying stuff, but hold questions until the end.

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I've kind of have a summary based on the questions I've already received.

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I'm going to specifically read out some of the questions and there is an opportunity

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towards the end for you to private message me a question that I will go ahead and answer.

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And if, of course, at any time, if you need me to clarify something, feel free to raise

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your avatar hand and I will call on you and I will let you ask that question.

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If I think I'm going to come up with it later, I might just say, hold that question, put

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a pin in it for now.

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So are we all set?

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So I'm going to go ahead and open this up in prayer because I'm very aware with a population

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right now, we have 74 live.

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I know that that number is going to increase and the number that are going to watch us

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and playback is going to increase.

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When we talk about sex and intimacy, I'm very aware that one in three women have dealt with

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some form of sexual assault.

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One in four men have dealt with some form of sexual assault.

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Many of us on this call have dealt with sexual addiction, pornography, love addiction, either

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the one doing it or the on the receiving end of it.

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So I just want to honor that this is sacred and safe space.

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Father God, we just ask that you be a part of this conversation.

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You love and designed intimacy and sex, and so you don't think it's a bad thing.

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You think it's a beautiful thing in the covenant and in the guardrails that you set before

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us so that we do it safely and that we maximize the joy that you meant for it to be.

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So sex and intimacy is not meant to be dirty or shameful.

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And so Father God, we want to give it its proper honor tonight.

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And Father God, I ask for a special hedge or protection around each person that this

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might trigger them or where they have received incredible pain in this area, that maybe this

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is just a turning point for them to get healing that they didn't even think was possible.

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We lift up this whole night to you in the mighty and precious name of Jesus.

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Okay.

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We are on it.

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All right.

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So the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to talk about sex and intimacy.

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the, the different levels and kind of like the do's and don'ts at the different levels.

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So the first level, just to remind you guys, level one, that's all of us right here.

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Level one is just people that you do life with in a very kind of superficial or a little

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bit more realistic way.

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It's just that level two is you're starting to build a relationship with somebody.

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And I'm glad I've listened to Jackie talk about this last night because I had never

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really thought about it.

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She reminded me that we're at level two with coworkers, family members, people of the same

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sex and people of the opposite sex, that level two is just building a relationship with somebody.

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And it's not meant to be a sexual connection, um, right away that it's really meant to be

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like, Hey, I want to get to know you better.

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Like, you know, I ran, I met Aaron two years ago in Nashville and I'm like, man, I want

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to get to know that girl better.

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And so I made a choice to kind of get to know her better while she was here for a week.

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And so now I know her a little better than some of you that are just starting in the

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community.

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So, you know, Aaron and I might argue we're at level two together.

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And so I love that theory because it kind of takes, do I have chemistry?

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Is it going to be a sexual thing off the table, especially in those early conversations, especially

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when you guys are getting set up on dates or you're meeting people online, you're starting

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at ground zero that is really different than somebody that you're considering going on

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a discovery date with that you've known that's friends with your family.

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He or she has been at your church.

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They've been a part of your life group or your social network.

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You've already been in acquaintance with them.

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And so that might grow differently than a level two discovery dating relationship.

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That's really starting out from ground zero.

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The other thing I like to remind people at level two, and this is true even at level

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three, how you start level two is not the same as how it goes through all of level two.

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Obviously, if you keep dating the same guy or girl, even though level two means you're

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dating different people at the same time, obviously you're going to talk about different

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things on the very first date with that person than the 10th date, right?

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And so some of you may stay at level two with people for two to three months.

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And I will say this, you guys, please do not let the phrase last year single force

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you to rush the process.

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I've seen a lot of people like barrel through and man, they're like at level three within

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two weeks.

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And like, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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And like, and they were a complete stranger beforehand.

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So feel free to use level two to really, really get to know that person.

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So here's some things that you want to do.

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You want to keep it low key and platonic.

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You really want to, especially in those early dates, you want to keep it platonic.

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The phrase that Jackie uses a lot is you want to stay in the present.

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It's okay to talk about, like when I talk about my past on my early dates, I might say,

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oh my gosh, you know, I was kind of like, I was kind of a book nerd and I really didn't

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become more of an extrovert till I went into high school.

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Oh, I cheered in high school or I was in the choir.

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Oh, I used to love musicals and be a part of that.

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Like that's like generic information about my past that I wouldn't care if the guy in

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Kroger or Target knows that information.

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So it's okay to talk about your past if you wouldn't mind sharing it to any stranger that

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you run into.

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So that's kind of the past information.

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That's okay.

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It's the information you wouldn't care if anybody knows.

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When you stay in the present, you have an opportunity to get to know who that person

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is today.

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I don't know about you, but I'm not dating who that guy was 10 years ago or five years

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ago, or even the guy that he was when he was married.

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If he was married previously, I'm hopefully talking to a more healthy, heel, whole man

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today.

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So that's the guy that I want to get to know.

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And ladies, same for you.

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He wants to get to know who you are today, and maybe he kind of wants to know what your

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hopes and dreams are.

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Obviously don't make it to like, oh my gosh, I want to get married and have 5,000 kids

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and I want to do full-time ministry with my person.

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You may not want to vomit that on the first date.

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You might want to share some other things that are your dreams and your goals.

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I want to finish a book.

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I want to run a marathon.

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I want to be able to learn how to paint.

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I want to learn a second language.

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I want to go to Israel.

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There's a lot of things that I'm sure are on your bucket list of things that you want

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to do in the future.

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So this is low-level intimacy.

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So again, remember, a lot of times people think intimacy is just sex, and especially

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for people where sex was forced upon them at a very young age.

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We hear that phrase, intimacy, and we just assume it means sex.

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Intimacy does not equal sex.

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Intimacy can take on so many other levels and not just sex.

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I did see this question a lot last night, so I thought I would go over it, because people

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get very confused.

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They're like, oh my gosh, well, if I'm not supposed to talk about my faith and my child.

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children on those first dates.

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What the heck do I talk about?

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So here's what I think about.

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Think about an onion.

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And you know how an onion has lots of layers to it?

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I think it is okay for you to talk about your faith,

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your family, your children, your hopes, your dream,

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your job in those early level two stages

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that you feel comfortable with.

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Now it's low level.

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So again, you wanna make sure,

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is this something I wouldn't mind telling somebody

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in the grocery store?

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Now my mother vomits her life story to everybody,

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the grocery, the checkout person and the person behind her.

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She thinks they all need a full explanation of everything.

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So my mom probably would share a lot of information

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on that first date, just cause that's who she is.

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Here's a good litmus.

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If you know you're sharing too much information,

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too much intimacy on those early video dates, early dates.

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If that person suddenly ghosted you,

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would you feel like you overshared?

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That's usually a good indication that you overshared.

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Okay, now, cause as you guys know,

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Jackie kind of challenged me

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to do this whole online dating thing.

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I teach the online dating thing, which is hilarious

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cause two years ago, I hated the very existence

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of online dating and I became the poster child for it.

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So what I've just learned is I've learned how to navigate

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a lot of texting conversations, video and dates,

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share enough about myself without oversharing.

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So I no longer have what I call

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emotional overshare hangovers.

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Does anybody else know what an overshare hangover

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feels like, especially for a co-dependents in the room?

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Man, we just know.

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And I will say this too,

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if you have been a part of a 12 step program

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where you share very quickly, very fast,

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you also might fall victim of an overshare.

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If you have a strong empath skill,

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if you have been in social services,

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if you are in the medical field, if you are a teacher,

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anything that has afforded you the gift

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of opening up quickly, getting people to trust you quickly

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and you getting them to vomit their story quickly,

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what served you well in your job in ministry

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does not serve you well on your first and second dates.

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You need to reign that intimacy button in.

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You guys, I have this uncanny gift.

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I used to run a nonprofit

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and I would do the last interview.

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I would let them come in my office, sit on the couch.

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I would totally disarm them.

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I would kind of slouch back in my seat and I'd go,

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so tell me about yourself.

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Literally, that's all I would say.

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So tell me about yourself.

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You would be shocked and amazed what people would vomit

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in the next 10 to 15 minutes.

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And I would just sit and listen.

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I'm like, oh my gosh,

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I can't believe you're telling me this on the first interview

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like this is crazy.

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And so I've learned,

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I need to reign that in when I'm dating

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because Jackie's talked about this a lot.

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We need to make deposits on our first dates.

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So we need to add all of the elements

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that are healthy about us that we know to be true,

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that areas of our life that have been healed,

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restored, redeemed,

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things that we're excited to talk about.

236
00:13:09.780 --> 00:13:12.500
We are not ready to start making withdrawals

237
00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:13.940
on another person.

238
00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:16.860
And you guys, I think we can all attest

239
00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:20.220
to either being the overshare or being on a date

240
00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:23.340
and somebody starts telling us their entire life story.

241
00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:26.140
You guys, I don't know,

242
00:13:26.140 --> 00:13:28.260
in case one of those men are on here

243
00:13:28.260 --> 00:13:29.980
or ever listens to this later,

244
00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:31.860
I don't ever want to divulge some stuff,

245
00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:33.940
but you guys, there's sometimes information I've learned

246
00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:35.820
on a first or second date,

247
00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:37.900
intimacy wise, content wise,

248
00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:39.580
that is too much information.

249
00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:40.500
The other thing now,

250
00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:43.700
as we lead into the conversation of sex and intimacy,

251
00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:45.860
I can't tell you how many men and men,

252
00:13:45.860 --> 00:13:47.820
I'm sure you can say the same thing,

253
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.300
how many men have told me how much sex they used to have

254
00:13:51.300 --> 00:13:53.020
or not have in their marriage.

255
00:13:53.020 --> 00:13:54.660
If their wife cheated on them,

256
00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:56.460
if they cheated on their wife,

257
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:58.380
they like sex, they didn't get enough sex.

258
00:13:58.380 --> 00:14:02.940
Like I'm amazed at how much content I learn about their,

259
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.300
and once you hear that conversation of sex,

260
00:14:06.300 --> 00:14:08.100
you can't unhear it.

261
00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:10.660
Both Jackie and David feel very strongly

262
00:14:10.660 --> 00:14:13.380
that the topic of sex,

263
00:14:13.380 --> 00:14:14.540
Debra, I will answer that question.

264
00:14:14.540 --> 00:14:16.060
That's a great question.

265
00:14:16.100 --> 00:14:17.100
How to reign it in.

266
00:14:18.100 --> 00:14:20.860
Sometimes I am really good at doing that.

267
00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:23.580
And sometimes it's so fast.

268
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:25.380
I'm just sitting there with popcorn going,

269
00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:26.700
okay, just go, man,

270
00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:27.540
because you're just going to go

271
00:14:27.540 --> 00:14:29.580
and we're never going to have another date again after this.

272
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.580
Like, this is just so crazy.

273
00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:33.540
I got to listen to the rest of this.

274
00:14:33.540 --> 00:14:36.700
So I will tell you how I try to reign it in.

275
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:40.460
But so you don't want people make withdrawals

276
00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:42.300
and you don't want people talking about sex.

277
00:14:42.300 --> 00:14:45.740
So I know there are a lot of other dating sites

278
00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:47.260
and there are a lot of other people

279
00:14:47.260 --> 00:14:49.740
who feel like right in their first text exchanges

280
00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:53.180
with a guy or girl or on their first video date

281
00:14:53.180 --> 00:14:55.380
before a live dates even happened,

282
00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:57.620
we have to make sure we align politically.

283
00:14:57.620 --> 00:14:59.740
Are you vaccinated or not vaccinated?

284
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.280
Are you waiting to have sex to get married?

285
00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:05.840
Boom, that's heavy content.

286
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.420
And you would say, well, Renee, I need to know that.

287
00:15:08.420 --> 00:15:09.260
I'm getting too old.

288
00:15:09.260 --> 00:15:10.460
I don't have time to waste.

289
00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:11.320
I will say this.

290
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.560
And I had this conversation with Gail earlier.

291
00:15:13.560 --> 00:15:16.880
I'm so glad I gave so many different men a chance

292
00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:18.160
in the last two years,

293
00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:20.060
because I've had so many live dates,

294
00:15:20.060 --> 00:15:22.560
which has taught me about how badly I used to date.

295
00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:26.920
You guys, I was the queen of vomiting my resume onto people

296
00:15:26.920 --> 00:15:28.760
and getting their resume information,

297
00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:30.720
bombarding them with questions.

298
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.220
And so, you know, it takes practice and practice

299
00:15:33.220 --> 00:15:34.540
and practice and practice.

300
00:15:34.540 --> 00:15:37.120
So do what you can to get on those live dates,

301
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.960
practice those live dates, get to know yourself,

302
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:41.680
get to know other people.

303
00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:46.120
Those conversations are just too, too intimate for texting.

304
00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.240
I mean, I'm amazed at how many people start to have

305
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.200
the sex conversation by text.

306
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:51.600
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

307
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.520
You haven't even done a video with this person.

308
00:15:53.520 --> 00:15:56.440
You don't even know if they are who they say they are yet.

309
00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:57.840
So you really want to be careful.

310
00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.840
So Debra, you asked how I rein it in.

311
00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:04.440
I literally will do it.

312
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.760
I will try to set the stage early.

313
00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:10.120
And if somebody asks a question

314
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:11.740
that I think is pretty intimate,

315
00:16:11.740 --> 00:16:13.800
here's the answer I give.

316
00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:16.580
I say, that's a really great question.

317
00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:18.520
Since we're just getting to know each other,

318
00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:21.200
I'm gonna answer at a very high level.

319
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.040
If we continue to date,

320
00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:27.000
I will give you more information as appropriate.

321
00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:32.000
If I ask a question, I will also sometimes preclude it.

322
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.160
I might say something like,

323
00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:36.140
hey, so how long have you been divorced?

324
00:16:36.140 --> 00:16:38.640
Just for the record, I don't need a blow by blow

325
00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:40.640
of what happened in your divorce proceeding.

326
00:16:40.640 --> 00:16:42.360
This is just high level today.

327
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:43.660
Like you don't have to do it.

328
00:16:43.660 --> 00:16:46.180
So I try to tell them ahead of time.

329
00:16:46.180 --> 00:16:47.920
I don't need them to go deep.

330
00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:49.420
If they start to go deep,

331
00:16:49.420 --> 00:16:52.160
and I think this could be an amazing guy,

332
00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:53.520
I will help rein it in.

333
00:16:54.520 --> 00:16:57.000
This is why I do video dates first.

334
00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.040
I don't do phone dates, I do video dates

335
00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:02.200
because I like seeing not just tone and inflection,

336
00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.040
but I like to see body language.

337
00:17:04.040 --> 00:17:05.760
I wanna be able to look them in the eye.

338
00:17:05.760 --> 00:17:09.440
So if I'm about to press pause on them over sharing,

339
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.000
I want them to see my warmth in person.

340
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.400
If I do it over the phone, it might feel abrupt.

341
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.520
So what I might say is,

342
00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:19.359
wow, we're gonna hold off on that.

343
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:20.280
I just need you to stop.

344
00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.460
So like I literally will put up my hand

345
00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:24.740
and just say, like, Paul, you're right in front of me.

346
00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:25.579
So I'm just gonna say,

347
00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:27.380
hey, Paul, I see where you're going with that.

348
00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:28.580
I need you to rein it in.

349
00:17:28.580 --> 00:17:30.340
Like I totally, at some point,

350
00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:32.900
it will be appropriate for me to hear all of that.

351
00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:33.960
Tonight's not the night.

352
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.420
Let's just try to stay high level

353
00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:37.080
as we're just getting to know each other.

354
00:17:37.080 --> 00:17:40.780
Now, I have done that and people have ignored that

355
00:17:40.780 --> 00:17:42.600
and they still barrel in.

356
00:17:42.600 --> 00:17:43.820
I mean, there was like one guy,

357
00:17:43.820 --> 00:17:48.820
I was like, dude, stop right now, stop, stop.

358
00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:52.080
And so you don't have to subject yourself

359
00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:54.060
to too much overshare.

360
00:17:54.060 --> 00:17:56.520
You have to learn to set healthy boundaries.

361
00:17:56.520 --> 00:18:00.040
Again, that's why you don't have those deep conversations

362
00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:01.080
by text.

363
00:18:01.080 --> 00:18:03.560
It's hard to hear tone and inflection.

364
00:18:03.560 --> 00:18:06.440
And that's why I like to do things by video

365
00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.040
until I meet them face to face

366
00:18:08.040 --> 00:18:11.440
because I want them to see my smile, my nice eyes.

367
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.920
I wanna be able to try to let them know.

368
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.440
And if they get embarrassed and go, oh my gosh,

369
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.280
I shouldn't have done that.

370
00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:18.800
You're just like, oh my gosh, it's okay.

371
00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:20.440
I used to do the same thing.

372
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.120
Like let them off the hook.

373
00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:23.980
Kenny, I used to do the same darn thing.

374
00:18:23.980 --> 00:18:25.160
I totally get it.

375
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.960
We're just trying to get to know each other

376
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.880
and I don't want you to feel bad about it afterwards.

377
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:29.920
It's all good.

378
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.280
Like I just affirm them like crazy.

379
00:18:32.280 --> 00:18:37.280
Now, if I do correct it and they can't get over it,

380
00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:38.920
that's probably not my person

381
00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:41.720
because my person's gonna mess up and I'm gonna mess up

382
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.960
and we need to be able to hold space for those mess ups.

383
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.960
Okay, physical boundaries.

384
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:49.560
Okay, so now we're gonna sound

385
00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:52.040
like a total prude about this, you guys.

386
00:18:52.040 --> 00:18:54.880
And I would argue a lot of us

387
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.040
have done it the wrong way sexually, right?

388
00:18:57.040 --> 00:19:00.840
So I'm not saying this from a Miss Perfect place.

389
00:19:00.840 --> 00:19:05.840
Do not think Renee is white as snow and I've done it right.

390
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.720
I'm here to tell you, and this is what I used to say

391
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.200
when I went to go speak to the high school

392
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.200
and college students.

393
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.680
I would go with one of the married people on my staff

394
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.560
and I'd be like, okay, so they're an example

395
00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:18.040
of what happens when you do it right.

396
00:19:18.040 --> 00:19:21.120
I'm an example of when you do it all out of order.

397
00:19:21.120 --> 00:19:23.360
And there's a cost that goes with it.

398
00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:26.040
There's many joys that go with doing it wrong,

399
00:19:26.040 --> 00:19:28.960
but there's a lot of big costs that go with it.

400
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.800
So here are the physical, sexual, intimate boundaries

401
00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:36.240
that are good, especially in the early part of level two.

402
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.640
Hugs, gentle touches, winks, nods.

403
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.060
They're all okay.

404
00:19:42.060 --> 00:19:44.600
Like gentle touches, like when you're at a restaurant

405
00:19:44.600 --> 00:19:45.920
and they say something really cool.

406
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.000
I don't know if you've ever seen the friends episode

407
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640
where Rachel kind of strokes Joey's hands

408
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.120
and she's like, oh, that's so sweet.

409
00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:57.760
She created a touch that was just nice.

410
00:19:57.760 --> 00:19:59.920
Now go hiking, you guys.

411
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.780
Um, I went hiking with somebody and he missed every opportunity.

412
00:20:04.780 --> 00:20:07.040
I almost tripped and fell like a million times.

413
00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:11.100
He missed every opportunity to be chivalrous and grab my arm.

414
00:20:11.100 --> 00:20:12.660
I'm like, dude, you couldn't grab my arm.

415
00:20:12.860 --> 00:20:14.740
And then that could have been a friendly touch.

416
00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:16.260
I would expect you guys.

417
00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:20.740
Um, when I'm putting up my luggage on an airplane, married or single, if a man

418
00:20:20.740 --> 00:20:24.580
is offering to help me and he brushes his arm, I'm all good, like, Hey, get

419
00:20:24.580 --> 00:20:26.220
my luggage for me, that would be great.

420
00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:27.580
So that's, what's good.

421
00:20:27.580 --> 00:20:33.180
Now, obviously as you move along in level two, you're like, I want a hug.

422
00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:36.220
I want to like a peck on the cheek.

423
00:20:36.260 --> 00:20:39.860
I want to like, I want a little kiss, maybe a kiss, no tongue.

424
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:44.820
Just realize you don't yet know how many other people he or

425
00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:46.460
she might be doing that with.

426
00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:51.620
So at that point that you want to start making out is probably the time that you

427
00:20:51.620 --> 00:20:56.140
need to have a conversation about how many other people you're making out

428
00:20:56.140 --> 00:21:00.460
with and trying to get, so up until then, Jackie would say, you don't really owe

429
00:21:00.460 --> 00:21:05.060
anybody an explanation of how many other people you're talking to or not, but the

430
00:21:05.060 --> 00:21:08.780
minute something like kissing starts happening, then that's the time that you

431
00:21:08.780 --> 00:21:12.420
have to fess up and start having a conversation that doesn't mean you're

432
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:16.020
like, okay, tomorrow we're exclusive or we're getting married and we're taking

433
00:21:16.020 --> 00:21:16.540
Simbis.

434
00:21:16.580 --> 00:21:17.980
No, that's not what that means.

435
00:21:18.260 --> 00:21:23.180
But it does mean you might press pause on the other people that you're talking

436
00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:28.940
to because you now have created a level of sexual intimacy with somebody.

437
00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:35.500
Um, if you are dating long distance, um, and I will say this, not everyone is

438
00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:40.060
excited about this because we want you to have live dates with them.

439
00:21:40.460 --> 00:21:45.860
We want to keep, uh, so to protect level of intimacy level of especially sexual

440
00:21:45.860 --> 00:21:49.540
intimacy, keep those video dates down.

441
00:21:49.820 --> 00:21:52.420
They don't have them to be six hours long.

442
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:57.580
Don't start having them from the bedroom in your pajamas, sitting on your bed,

443
00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:02.500
like looking like, Hey baby, like don't start pillow talk.

444
00:22:02.540 --> 00:22:03.740
I call it pillow talk.

445
00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:07.100
Don't start pillow talk before you've had your first live date.

446
00:22:07.300 --> 00:22:08.060
Don't do it.

447
00:22:08.180 --> 00:22:13.180
Sit at the table, sit at the couch, find a place that you would normally

448
00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:14.620
have a conversation with somebody.

449
00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:18.340
Don't bring the guy or girl into your bedroom before your first

450
00:22:18.340 --> 00:22:20.180
date, if you are video dating.

451
00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:25.060
So that's just my, I'm just telling you, it creates a level of intimacy that can

452
00:22:25.060 --> 00:22:30.700
get sexual because the only thing you're doing is talking when you are in person,

453
00:22:30.740 --> 00:22:33.700
you can go to the park, you can go bowling, you can go play darts.

454
00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:34.860
You can go throw axes.

455
00:22:34.860 --> 00:22:35.740
You can go ball.

456
00:22:35.980 --> 00:22:40.060
There are things that you can do, but when you zoom, the only thing you

457
00:22:40.060 --> 00:22:42.820
do is start sharing and sharing.

458
00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:45.700
Now I have gotten creative on zoom dates.

459
00:22:45.940 --> 00:22:48.020
I have done scatagories.

460
00:22:48.060 --> 00:22:49.140
I've done UNO.

461
00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:50.100
I've played Yahtzee.

462
00:22:50.100 --> 00:22:54.820
Like you can be creative, you can cook a meal together, but by and large, zoom

463
00:22:54.860 --> 00:23:00.380
will turn into a lot of oversharing, which starts to lead into emotional

464
00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:05.060
intimacy and it can start to lead into what we call digital sex, right?

465
00:23:05.060 --> 00:23:07.460
We all know, like, it's like sex talk, right?

466
00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:08.020
We're adults.

467
00:23:08.020 --> 00:23:09.340
We can kind of talk about that.

468
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:15.540
So if you are long distance, I would say if you are within four hours, within a

469
00:23:15.540 --> 00:23:18.860
month, within that first month, you should be trying to book a halfway visit.

470
00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:24.500
If you are probably a plane ride away or 10 hours, um, Jackie would still say

471
00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:29.020
within six weeks or six dates, you need to be booking that, that flight.

472
00:23:29.020 --> 00:23:33.580
And I know it sounds like an expense to do that, but if you drag out three

473
00:23:33.580 --> 00:23:38.700
months of talking to somebody digitally, it really can make that first meeting

474
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:42.940
super weird and you're putting a lot of time into somebody that you're not

475
00:23:42.940 --> 00:23:47.020
getting to see how they behave out in the real world, remember we're trying

476
00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:53.060
to build intimacy and we're trying to build it without verbal intimacy and

477
00:23:53.060 --> 00:23:56.140
sexual intimacy, which can be done digitally, of course.

478
00:23:56.380 --> 00:24:00.140
So we want you to experience in-person live dates.

479
00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:00.860
Okay.

480
00:24:01.860 --> 00:24:02.780
Let's see.

481
00:24:03.060 --> 00:24:05.300
Um, we don't incur, I think I've already said this.

482
00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:08.820
We don't encourage you to start talking about sex until you think

483
00:24:08.820 --> 00:24:10.420
you need to start talking about sex.

484
00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:11.820
That that's just it.

485
00:24:12.060 --> 00:24:15.340
If you're out on that day with our guy or girl and you're thinking, man, there's

486
00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:17.380
no way in heck I'm ever going to sleep with this person.

487
00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:18.980
Then don't talk to them about sex.

488
00:24:19.020 --> 00:24:21.220
Like, like, don't just get to know them.

489
00:24:21.780 --> 00:24:22.020
Okay.

490
00:24:22.020 --> 00:24:25.940
So level two now heads into level three, hopefully.

491
00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:26.380
Right.

492
00:24:26.900 --> 00:24:31.540
Um, before you go to level three, I've heard people say exactly, Erin, it's

493
00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:33.420
not your business until it's your business.

494
00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:36.900
And so I'm going to start to get a little more specific on there.

495
00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:39.260
Now, before you go into level three.

496
00:24:40.060 --> 00:24:42.020
And I will say this, I learned this the hard way.

497
00:24:42.260 --> 00:24:44.740
A lot of times I've heard men and women both ask this.

498
00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:46.260
How many dates do I give it?

499
00:24:46.260 --> 00:24:49.900
If I feel no chemistry or physical traction, Jackie would say it's

500
00:24:49.900 --> 00:24:51.540
a yes until it's a no, right?

501
00:24:51.540 --> 00:24:52.620
It's a yes until to know.

502
00:24:52.860 --> 00:24:56.420
Well, you guys, I got all the way up to Simbas a year and a half ago with a guy

503
00:24:56.420 --> 00:24:59.620
that I was not physically attracted to because everyone convinced me.

504
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.040
this is what normal attraction's like, and this is what healthy love is. Y'all, I almost married

505
00:25:05.040 --> 00:25:10.000
somebody I had no physical chemistry with, and Jackie was like, oh, Renee, I should have told

506
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.520
you to stop before this point. And I'm like, well, that would have been really helpful for me to know.

507
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:23.520
So before you go exclusive, make sure at that point, Simbis, it's save your marriage before

508
00:25:23.520 --> 00:25:28.560
it starts. It's a pre-marriage class that you can take before you're engaged or while you're engaged.

509
00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:35.280
Um, but it's really good, really intense. Um, so here's what I would encourage you. If you are not

510
00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:41.120
physically attracted yet to the person that wants to go exclusive, you need to be honest with that

511
00:25:41.120 --> 00:25:46.480
person. If you're like, gosh, I really do like this person. Maybe if I'm just alone with just

512
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:51.760
this person, my attraction might grow. I think it is appropriate for you to say, gosh, Miriam,

513
00:25:51.760 --> 00:25:55.840
you know what? I would love to consider being exclusive with you too. I have to be really

514
00:25:55.840 --> 00:26:00.560
honest with you. I'm not, I think I'm not experiencing the same physical chemistry that

515
00:26:00.560 --> 00:26:06.960
you are. Are you still open to going exclusive? Knowing that you need to let them be able to have

516
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:12.560
a say if they want to go exclusive with you, if they're not physically attracted to you at that

517
00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:18.720
point yet. Um, there are now some things that you're going to start to talk about that are what

518
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:24.560
you would consider God defended deal breakers. Maybe before you go exclusive, that is when you

519
00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:29.760
start to broach the conversation about like, Hey, I noticed we started to kiss more. You talked

520
00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:36.560
about sleeping over. I feel like I need to be super clear now about intimacy. My, my plan is to

521
00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:41.600
not be sexually intimate before marriage. Um, is that something we can talk about? Do you feel

522
00:26:41.600 --> 00:26:47.520
comfortable with that to keep that conversation super high level? You guys do not get into like

523
00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:52.640
the details of what that means at that point. You can talk about that later and let's not all get

524
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:58.720
all Bill Clinton. Let's talk about what sexual activity means. Sexual activity is when your mouth,

525
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:03.920
your hand are touching other genital parts or genital is touching genital. Let's be clear.

526
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:10.000
Gail is laughing, right? But that is sexual activity. So whether it's, um, you kind of got

527
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.320
what I'm trying to say there. Don't need to repeat myself. Y'all can replay that back and go, wait,

528
00:27:14.320 --> 00:27:21.680
what did she just say? But you heard me. That's sexual activity. It's not just intercourse. Um,

529
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:28.720
okay. Now here's also a time that you may start to consider having a conversation. If there has

530
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:36.640
been drug, alcohol, sex, or pornography in addiction in your story. So only when you're

531
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:41.680
about to be exclusive or during that exclusive stage, because here's the thing you guys,

532
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:46.160
if you've got a pornography addiction or a sex addiction or a love addiction or alcohol addiction,

533
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:51.200
do you necessarily want that information to go out to every level two person? No,

534
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:57.760
like that's like private information. And so I would say very early in that exclusive time,

535
00:27:57.760 --> 00:28:04.240
they've now earned the right to hear that again. They're still not ready for all of the details.

536
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:10.640
So if somebody confesses that they had a sex addiction or porn addiction, that is still not

537
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:15.520
the time for you to say, okay, so how often every day, what did you do? What'd you watch? Like

538
00:28:15.520 --> 00:28:19.600
you're just gathering that information and seeing if that's something you can sit with.

539
00:28:19.600 --> 00:28:23.040
And you also can be asking that question like, okay, so if we're going to date

540
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:29.680
and you have a past with pornography, what are the guardrails we can both put up that you feel

541
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:35.520
comfortable with? So I feel safe and you feel safe. So I know how to honor our relationship

542
00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:41.440
in each other so that I can ask you questions. Am I allowed to see your email? Am I allowed to

543
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:46.720
ask you this? Do you feel comfortable if I ask you that? You start to ask what the guardrails

544
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:55.520
are around that addiction. Hopefully that makes kind of sense. And at that point, you may start

545
00:28:55.520 --> 00:29:01.520
to have more appropriate conversation about what your sexual boundaries are with each other.

546
00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:06.480
Now we'll say this, there are plenty of people who think, man, I can make out until the cows come

547
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:12.400
home, full on tongue. And as long as our clothes are on, like, I'm not going to want to have sex.

548
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:18.640
I got, I've got this, the willpower of, you know, like a monk, I got this. There are other people

549
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:25.120
that might say, you know, like that time of the month, or if I'm horny or if I'm sad, or if you're

550
00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:29.520
so hot, like I can't even make out with you more than five minutes. You guys, there was a season

551
00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:33.840
in my life. I'm not in that season right now. So don't freak out. But like, there was a season

552
00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:40.560
in my life where I so needed affirmation, which I thought was physical. If he was hot and I was

553
00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:45.920
horny, there was no place in my home that was safe. Not the kitchen, not the living room. So

554
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:50.400
like this whole idea, like, you know, and like, let's not turn into 16 year olds. Well, how far

555
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:57.600
is too far before it's a sin? Okay. Wherever you think it is, take two steps back. That's where it

556
00:29:57.600 --> 00:29:59.760
is. Like, and so that's a different.

557
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.480
boundary for every single person.

558
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.960
So some people kissing on the mouth is too much.

559
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.480
Some people tongue is too much.

560
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.920
Some people like, hey, we can't lay on top of each other

561
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:15.920
making out because like now I'm feeling body parts

562
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:17.200
through the clothing.

563
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:22.200
And so if you're having an adult conversation in level three

564
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.640
you can start to have more clearer boundaries

565
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:27.600
on what that looks like.

566
00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:32.320
And I will say this too, which person gets to win

567
00:30:32.320 --> 00:30:34.360
on how far is too far,

568
00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:38.040
the person who wants the least amount, that's who wins.

569
00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:41.800
So if Gail is all good, Gail's right in my middle screen

570
00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:43.420
so she's getting picked on tonight.

571
00:30:43.420 --> 00:30:46.020
So if Gail is like all in with tongue and she's like,

572
00:30:46.020 --> 00:30:47.020
hey, I can do tongue

573
00:30:47.020 --> 00:30:48.960
and I'm not gonna wanna do anything else.

574
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.600
But Ty is like, I can't do tongue

575
00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:53.760
because then I'm gonna totally wanna have sex with you.

576
00:30:53.760 --> 00:30:55.320
Then Ty wins.

577
00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:56.480
Does that make sense?

578
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.200
We gotta honor what the person needs at the lower level.

579
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:04.520
And I will say this, if this is a good guy or a good girl

580
00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:06.920
that's a God kingdom person,

581
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:10.040
they will honor what that is for you.

582
00:31:10.040 --> 00:31:11.480
And I will get to your questions

583
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.320
because somebody asked me specifically,

584
00:31:13.320 --> 00:31:16.440
like if they say that they have to test out the car,

585
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:17.280
I love that.

586
00:31:17.280 --> 00:31:20.400
Like y'all, I had a video day with a guy who swore

587
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.680
he was like a Jesus loving guy.

588
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.520
And it was clear in our early conversations,

589
00:31:26.520 --> 00:31:29.380
he had long relationships after his divorce,

590
00:31:29.380 --> 00:31:31.320
they would travel together.

591
00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:32.800
So he didn't have to tell me

592
00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:34.720
he expects to have sex before marriage.

593
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.640
It was very clear in his conversation.

594
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:39.820
And all I said was,

595
00:31:39.820 --> 00:31:43.320
yeah, I'm pretty sure you're not gonna wanna date me.

596
00:31:43.320 --> 00:31:45.440
And I said, it sounds like the lifestyle

597
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.040
that you've had with the women that you've dated

598
00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:49.840
really doesn't align with what I think is good

599
00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:51.160
and healthy for me.

600
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.440
I didn't say it wasn't healthy for anybody.

601
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.480
I didn't say it was a sin.

602
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.520
I just said, it's not healthy for me.

603
00:31:56.520 --> 00:31:58.240
And he's like, really?

604
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:00.840
You would actually buy the car without test driving it?

605
00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:02.760
And I said, here's what I can tell you.

606
00:32:02.760 --> 00:32:05.120
If he kisses good and he dances good,

607
00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:06.400
the other stuff is good.

608
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.600
I don't need to test it all the way out.

609
00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:11.000
Like Vicky's, see Vicky, right?

610
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.680
I'm telling you, you're hardly a bad kisser

611
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.660
and great in bed and vice versa.

612
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:17.620
They usually kind of go together.

613
00:32:17.620 --> 00:32:20.580
So I, you know, sometimes I just find a snarky way

614
00:32:20.580 --> 00:32:22.080
to kind of come back around with it,

615
00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:23.360
but I don't get all righteous.

616
00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:25.080
I don't start quoting scripture.

617
00:32:25.080 --> 00:32:26.800
I'm only on a video date with this guy.

618
00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:28.640
I don't need to bring him to Jesus

619
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.040
like and convict him of his sin.

620
00:32:30.040 --> 00:32:31.380
Like sometimes you guys,

621
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.800
I would totally try to convict men of their sin.

622
00:32:34.800 --> 00:32:37.760
Like I was on a video date years ago with this pastor.

623
00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:40.720
He was so flirting with me, so flirting.

624
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.600
And like, he was willing to drop me like a hot potato.

625
00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:46.000
And I thought it was my place to school him

626
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.640
on how he was behaving like a brother in Christ.

627
00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:51.300
Y'all, like it did not need to be me schooling him

628
00:32:51.300 --> 00:32:52.860
and he got married to some other chick

629
00:32:52.860 --> 00:32:55.700
and I'm sure he didn't think twice about my bad advice,

630
00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:56.540
all that.

631
00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:58.940
Okay, so let's see.

632
00:32:59.780 --> 00:33:01.700
Okay, I think I covered all that.

633
00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:06.180
Level three exclusive as it's moving along,

634
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:08.860
possibly talking about marriage.

635
00:33:08.860 --> 00:33:12.460
Okay, so you're peeling the onion more and more

636
00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:14.060
and giving information about,

637
00:33:14.060 --> 00:33:16.760
okay, so let me use me, I will be a guinea pig.

638
00:33:16.780 --> 00:33:18.420
I will use me as an example.

639
00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:22.820
Pretty early in conversations.

640
00:33:22.820 --> 00:33:25.020
Now you guys, I will say this too.

641
00:33:25.020 --> 00:33:27.700
I'm a public speaker, I've published a book,

642
00:33:27.700 --> 00:33:30.300
I've spoken from the stage in ministry a lot.

643
00:33:30.300 --> 00:33:33.900
So there's a lot of information already out there about me.

644
00:33:33.900 --> 00:33:37.780
So what I'm willing to share earlier in dates

645
00:33:37.780 --> 00:33:40.060
is based on the fact that there's already information

646
00:33:40.060 --> 00:33:41.380
that they could Google about me.

647
00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:43.700
So they might as well hear it right from my face.

648
00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:47.920
So use that as your litmus test of how private you are.

649
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:51.360
You don't wanna share any more than what you feel safe with.

650
00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:54.280
So here's what I might say really, really early on.

651
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.120
My relationship with my dad was really complicated

652
00:33:58.120 --> 00:34:01.520
and after he died, it was a complicated grief

653
00:34:01.520 --> 00:34:05.320
and I'm really glad I had a chance to work through it.

654
00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:09.239
That's it, that's all I might say in my first five dates.

655
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.440
If we've been dating a pretty long time,

656
00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:14.340
I might start saying things like,

657
00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.380
yeah, my dad made so many stakes as a father

658
00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:22.620
and as a husband, but what I really learned over the years

659
00:34:22.620 --> 00:34:25.260
is while his behavior was more overt,

660
00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:26.620
there were some things that my mom did

661
00:34:26.620 --> 00:34:27.820
that were kind of covert.

662
00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:29.960
Now I'm still not telling you what my dad did.

663
00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:32.179
I'm still not telling you what my mom did, right?

664
00:34:32.179 --> 00:34:33.980
Now I'm exclusive.

665
00:34:33.980 --> 00:34:36.380
And again, I'm using me as a guinea pig here.

666
00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:39.179
So you guys are all getting my level three conversation

667
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:40.219
in this, but I'm trying to tell you

668
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:42.520
how a conversation progresses.

669
00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:45.280
So in level three, I might say things like,

670
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.120
you know, my dad really started making fun of my weight

671
00:34:48.120 --> 00:34:49.920
by the time I was 12 years old.

672
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:53.760
And so, and he stopped putting my photographs in his wallet.

673
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.120
So, and he told me I was the smart one.

674
00:34:56.120 --> 00:34:57.600
So by the time I was 13,

675
00:34:57.600 --> 00:35:00.040
I probably already had body image issues.

676
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.680
did not think I was cute, and I think I've been chasing that ever since.

677
00:35:05.600 --> 00:35:10.880
Right before I get married to somebody, now my father has gone home to Jesus. So there's a lot

678
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.280
of things that the Lord has healed that I'm no longer going to need to take to the marriage.

679
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:22.000
And so I may not say much more than that ever. But if a year ago with my dad still alive,

680
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:26.400
I might say something like, I really want to marry you, but we need to talk about how we're

681
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.680
going to handle the wedding because I don't want my dad to walk me down the aisle. It's

682
00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:33.280
going to make me really uncomfortable, and I don't want to have that dance with my dad.

683
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.560
So can we find a way to work around so that it's not going to be so obvious?

684
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:43.120
Do you see how I'm still talking about my dad, but there's a level of respect about it? Now,

685
00:35:43.120 --> 00:35:47.760
I still even haven't told you guys all of the intimate details of my relationship with my

686
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:53.920
father. That might wait until I'm married. And so it's not that you don't talk about your kids,

687
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:57.200
and you don't talk about your faith, and you don't talk about some of the stuff that you've

688
00:35:57.200 --> 00:36:03.840
been through, but you share just a snippet of it. And at each level, you share a little bit more

689
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:09.760
as it comes up as it's appropriate. Does that make sense? When I talk about my faith, I've been in

690
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:15.520
ministry 25 years. I've got Christian symbols on my wrist. So it's easy for me to talk about my

691
00:36:15.520 --> 00:36:20.800
faith super fast, but I don't go like, okay, so what's your relationship with Jesus? And do you

692
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.960
speak in tongues? And what are your spiritual gifts? Y'all, I don't do that. I'll say things

693
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.880
to people like, so what takes up your day? And what are things that are really important to you?

694
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:34.320
And if they say, if they ask me the same question, I will say things like, oh my gosh, I love theater.

695
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:38.960
I love working out. I love cooking dinner for friends. I'm very involved in my church. I'm a

696
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.720
part of my prayer ministry. So it's just one of five things that I list. So it's clear that it's

697
00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:49.680
important to me. So when we're talking about intimacy, that's what we're talking about here.

698
00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:54.800
All right. I do want to get to this. Okay. So I'm about to get really deep. So if I'm

699
00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:00.080
going to embarrass you, I'm kind of preparing you right now before your engagement, here are some

700
00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:06.320
topics that you may or may not need to talk about. You still, if you're about to get engaged,

701
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.320
you still do not owe them every single sin, the number of sexual partners that you had,

702
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:17.600
the positions you don't like in sex, the ones that you do like in sex, that is still not

703
00:37:17.600 --> 00:37:23.520
necessary conversation to get engaged. Okay. Now, again, I've cleared all of this with Jackie.

704
00:37:23.520 --> 00:37:27.040
You may disagree with all of this. I'm just letting you know, as a community,

705
00:37:27.040 --> 00:37:31.600
this is what we're encouraging. I'm adding this second one because I did work. I did run a medical

706
00:37:31.600 --> 00:37:38.320
clinic for 20 years. I do believe somewhere in stage three, if you have a lifelong STD like

707
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.440
herpes, you do need to let your partner know that. I think it's a fair thing for them to learn

708
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:47.440
that you have something like herpes because it means you have that for the rest of your life.

709
00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:53.360
That will very much change the way you have sex, especially if there is an outbreak. Again, I'm just

710
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:58.880
being very blunt with you all. Topics like if you've had an abortion, paid for an abortion,

711
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:04.160
had a sexual assault, it can or cannot be discussed at this time. You don't have to

712
00:38:04.160 --> 00:38:09.440
tell somebody if you've been assaulted. You don't have to tell somebody if you've had an abortion,

713
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:14.480
especially if you've already done the healing for it. Again, I ran a pregnancy center. You guys,

714
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:19.440
one in three women in my age group have had an abortion. In the younger age group, it's one in

715
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:26.960
four. It's a very high number. One in four pregnancies will end in a miscarriage. The

716
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:31.920
chances are that a woman has experienced a miscarriage, infant death, stillbirth, or an

717
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:39.280
abortion is very, very high. Guys, just know that chances are it's very, very high. Chances are she

718
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:45.280
has dealt with some kind of sexual inappropriate behavior at some point in either her job or her

719
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.840
life, but she doesn't owe you that information sooner than she's ready to tell it to you.

720
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:59.040
Men, if you are thinking about marrying a woman and she is over the age of 50, just realize that

721
00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:07.360
as our bodies age, we might need a little bit more patience and assistance to enjoy sex again,

722
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:14.320
especially if they've never had sex or it's been a very, very long time. Women, it might be a good

723
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:20.160
time to visit your OB to make sure as you're starting to get into that level three relationship,

724
00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:25.680
you really want to be having honest conversations with your OBGYN about how you will be able to

725
00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:30.640
safely and satisfiably have good sex. You want to be able to have that conversation.

726
00:39:31.520 --> 00:39:37.360
Here's the thing, and Jackie talks about this all the time. She really still encourages us to

727
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:41.600
wait until marriage to have sex. She knows that that doesn't happen. She knows that by the time

728
00:39:41.600 --> 00:39:46.240
people are taking Simbis and getting engaged, she knows a lot of the people in the community are

729
00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:52.160
having sex anyway. I will give you the same information I tell the young people. The hormone

730
00:39:52.160 --> 00:39:58.800
that comes out of a woman, it's oxytocin. Do you want to know the three times oxytocin shows up in

731
00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.920
a woman? It is

732
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.160
It's when it's released during sex, childbirth,

733
00:40:03.160 --> 00:40:05.860
and when she's lactating or breastfeeding.

734
00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:09.800
Those are the three times oxytocin releases from her

735
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.120
and it causes her to connect in a way

736
00:40:12.120 --> 00:40:14.340
that it does not cause men to connect.

737
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:18.800
So women, that is why when we have sex, we connect.

738
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:20.600
The hormone does it for us.

739
00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:22.560
There is no way out of it.

740
00:40:22.560 --> 00:40:25.320
And so it is why if we break up,

741
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:27.480
there is a soul tie that is different

742
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:29.440
than a soul tie that exists for men.

743
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:32.800
Yes, a soul tie does exist for men with sexual activity,

744
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.800
but we are just wired differently.

745
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.400
And so we will attach differently.

746
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.520
I promise you, I've looked for the loophole in scripture.

747
00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:44.160
Nobody has looked for the loophole more than me.

748
00:40:44.160 --> 00:40:47.280
There is no loophole for divorced people,

749
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.920
people over the age of 50.

750
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:52.520
God is very clear that sex is amazing

751
00:40:52.520 --> 00:40:54.840
and beautiful in the covenant and marriage.

752
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:56.440
You guys, it is the most intimate

753
00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.120
and personal thing that you can do.

754
00:40:58.120 --> 00:41:01.320
And a lot of times when I saw some of these questions,

755
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:03.560
there is fear about certain positions.

756
00:41:03.560 --> 00:41:04.920
I don't wanna have oral sex.

757
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:06.420
I don't wanna have anal sex.

758
00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:07.760
I don't wanna be in this position.

759
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:09.140
I don't wanna be in that position.

760
00:41:09.140 --> 00:41:11.680
In my suspicion, it's because something traumatic

761
00:41:11.680 --> 00:41:12.960
happened in the relationship

762
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.800
and it wasn't a safe relationship.

763
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.080
So I would just say this,

764
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.720
and thank you, I see that there's other questions

765
00:41:22.720 --> 00:41:23.840
that might be coming in.

766
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.920
So I would just say this, once you're engaged,

767
00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:30.040
you can start to have honest conversations.

768
00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:32.320
So here's what you still may not be prepared to do.

769
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:35.040
It's okay to say something like this.

770
00:41:35.040 --> 00:41:38.440
You know, Terry, I do have a sexual past

771
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.600
and there are some sexual activity that I've enjoyed

772
00:41:41.600 --> 00:41:44.240
and some that I hated, some that hurt,

773
00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:46.800
some that made me feel like a slut.

774
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.360
And so I'm hoping as we become sexual together

775
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.640
in a marriage relationship, we will explore those together

776
00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:57.440
and that we would not engage in any type

777
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.920
of sexual activity or position

778
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:03.400
that would cause either one of us to not feel good.

779
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:05.840
Is that something you would be okay with?

780
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.840
So if you notice, I was able to talk about that

781
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.360
without saying, okay, so in this position,

782
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:14.880
or in this position, like no need to get graphic.

783
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:19.280
Like this is about building repertoire and conversation.

784
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:23.360
Okay, so that's all my notes.

785
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.400
So I'm gonna pull up the questions.

786
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:28.600
So let me hide the participants thing.

787
00:42:28.600 --> 00:42:33.600
Okay, so does it get released with kissing?

788
00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:35.000
No, it doesn't.

789
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.120
Oxytocin does not get released with kissing.

790
00:42:37.120 --> 00:42:39.520
I mean, I don't know, unless you can like,

791
00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:42.000
technically it's three times oxytocin is released.

792
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:46.040
It is released during sex and it's during penetration

793
00:42:46.040 --> 00:42:49.000
and it's during breastfeeding again,

794
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:50.720
and it's during the birth.

795
00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:53.720
So there's an actual specific action

796
00:42:53.720 --> 00:42:55.760
that's kind of happening to make it happen.

797
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.440
All right, so let me read some of the questions

798
00:42:57.440 --> 00:42:59.360
that were sent in ahead of time

799
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:03.560
and feel free to start promising.

800
00:43:03.560 --> 00:43:06.200
I mean, if you wanna start sending me questions,

801
00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:07.040
I will do this.

802
00:43:07.040 --> 00:43:09.920
Okay, what are some recommended boundaries

803
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:11.160
for stage two and three?

804
00:43:11.160 --> 00:43:14.000
Any tips to navigate exclusivity in the abstinence talk?

805
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.480
I feel like I covered that.

806
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.880
So I feel like we're good there.

807
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.400
How can women make men feel special?

808
00:43:21.080 --> 00:43:23.360
Hugs, words of affirmation, making them their favorite male.

809
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:26.240
You guys, I'm a big fan of the love languages.

810
00:43:26.240 --> 00:43:27.560
I think that's a fun question.

811
00:43:27.560 --> 00:43:29.920
I try to ask people like, oh, have you done Enneagram?

812
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:30.760
Have you done DISC?

813
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.560
Have you done Myers-Briggs?

814
00:43:32.560 --> 00:43:34.960
Have you done a Strength Finders?

815
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:36.720
Have you done the love languages?

816
00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:38.560
Like, that's fun stuff.

817
00:43:38.560 --> 00:43:41.160
I'm a personality test junkie.

818
00:43:41.160 --> 00:43:44.880
So in level two dating, I love learning that.

819
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:46.320
So I love learning that.

820
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:48.560
I don't mind saying to people like,

821
00:43:48.560 --> 00:43:51.800
oh my gosh, like, how do your children tell you,

822
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:53.960
how do your children show you they love you?

823
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:56.400
How do you like to be affirmed at the office?

824
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:58.120
Like, do you like this or do you like that?

825
00:43:58.120 --> 00:44:00.360
They don't have to have read the five love languages.

826
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.000
If you know what they are, you can start prompting them.

827
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:04.760
Oh, do you like this or do you like this?

828
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:05.600
Here's what I do.

829
00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.880
You guys, I can, hey, if there's a guy

830
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.920
that's gonna go on a date with me right here on this call,

831
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:10.120
I can't stand roses.

832
00:44:10.120 --> 00:44:11.400
I like Gerber daisies.

833
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:12.480
I like daisies.

834
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.040
You're gonna give me roses, yellow, pink, white.

835
00:44:16.040 --> 00:44:17.840
I don't know why I don't like red roses.

836
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:19.260
They just get black so fast.

837
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:20.100
I don't know.

838
00:44:20.100 --> 00:44:20.920
I like daisies.

839
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.260
There's something about daisies that just make me happy,

840
00:44:23.260 --> 00:44:24.720
especially Gerber daisies.

841
00:44:24.720 --> 00:44:26.960
Like, I have a basket of wildflowers.

842
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:29.000
Actually, what I really like is wildflowers.

843
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.860
And if you go pick them out in the yard

844
00:44:30.860 --> 00:44:32.520
or you steal them off the side of the road

845
00:44:32.520 --> 00:44:34.040
and you didn't even go to a store,

846
00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:35.840
I'd be all good with those flowers.

847
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:37.440
I'm like, I like baby's breath.

848
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.440
So you see, like, you start helping.

849
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:41.280
You start helping the other person

850
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.720
showing how they show love.

851
00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:44.320
Okay.

852
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:45.720
Sometimes, okay.

853
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:46.600
Hmm.

854
00:44:47.720 --> 00:44:49.760
Someone said here, this is a really good question.

855
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.240
Sometimes making out leads to touching,

856
00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:53.520
then to this, then to that.

857
00:44:53.520 --> 00:44:55.280
It's a cascade of events

858
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.800
and it feels wrong to stop in the middle,

859
00:44:57.800 --> 00:44:59.840
especially if men are super aroused.

860
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:08.480
Be clear. No is always no. You get to say no at any time. You get to say no if you're making out.

861
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:14.160
You get to say no if you're half naked. You get to say no if he's inside of you. If you are done

862
00:45:14.160 --> 00:45:22.400
and you say stop, stop means stop. Let me be super clear about that. No means no. And in fact,

863
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:28.800
in most states today, you actually need verbal consent to have sex, which is why in most states,

864
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:36.000
if you are inebriated, you cannot give consent and it can be considered rape. So them not just

865
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:41.840
saying no isn't enough. She actually needs to say yes. He needs to say yes. So ladies,

866
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:46.320
let's not just say it's men doing it. Sometimes we all get hot and bothered too and we start

867
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:52.720
pushing them too, especially if we used to use sex to reel a guy in. If we used to use sex to

868
00:45:52.720 --> 00:45:58.800
reel a guy in when we feel like he's drifting away, we might start resorting back to old tactics.

869
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:05.520
So here's what I would say, you guys. No always means no, and you can always stop whenever. I

870
00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:09.600
don't care how uncomfortable it is. I don't care if somebody has to go relieve themself in the

871
00:46:09.600 --> 00:46:18.000
bathroom afterwards, but no always means no. Does God not want us to have beautiful sex? And did

872
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.840
he really mean for us to abstain our whole life? Well, no, he didn't mean for us to abstain.

873
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:26.320
In the same way the enemy wants to kill marriages, he wants to stop them right from the get-go.

874
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:32.000
So I promise you women didn't start, we did not start menstruating at like 10, 12, 13 years old

875
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:37.120
for us to not have sex until we were 55 years old. That is not how God originally designed it,

876
00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:42.080
right ladies? No, we were all supposed to be able to have happy, healthy, holy sex at a much younger

877
00:46:42.080 --> 00:46:48.240
age. So that this is not God's original design. So God was hoping that we would all get married

878
00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:53.520
younger and stay married. He did not intend for us to do this into adulthood, but here we are,

879
00:46:53.520 --> 00:46:58.640
we're single, and so we still have to honor God. It is not the original design,

880
00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:07.200
but he wants to protect our hearts and our minds, okay? Is this a red flag?

881
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:13.600
If someone you're in level three with who said that they're agreeing to wait till marriage,

882
00:47:13.600 --> 00:47:19.200
if the conversation starts to get sexual, especially if you know you're getting both

883
00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:23.280
turned on, here's the thing y'all, we're all guilty of starting to go, if we've all been,

884
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.880
if you have already been sexual in the past and you had good sex, it is really easy to go down

885
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:34.000
that rabbit trail without even thinking about it. So let's try to have some space and grace when

886
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:39.040
that first happens and just say, Dana, I know that's not who you are, I know you want to wait,

887
00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:43.760
and so you know what? I'm going to put a stop on that conversation, girl. I love you,

888
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.760
this is fun, but this is going to take us both to a place we don't want to go.

889
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:53.200
So my partner already knows where I stand on this issue, so I'm hoping they're going to be

890
00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:58.960
strong enough to rein me in, right, Dana? Dana knows that if I was talking about a guy, she'd

891
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:02.800
be like, oh, sister, that is not a conversation y'all need to be having together, or he's been

892
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:08.720
hanging out on your couch too much, like you're just waiting for, you know, like, I always say

893
00:48:08.720 --> 00:48:15.440
this to young people all the time, your willpower will give out at some point. I used to say the

894
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:22.320
fear of God or your mother's face is not going to last long enough. If you guys get naked on

895
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:28.400
top of each other in the dark long enough, enough times, you will fall, you just will, willpower.

896
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:38.400
Is it okay that they have to relieve themselves after making out? Hmm, that's a good question.

897
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:44.160
That's a maybe. I would say that was a really good question. Somebody privately asked me

898
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:49.600
if you are making out and if he has to go relieve himself, is that okay? I would say this,

899
00:48:50.160 --> 00:48:56.880
if it happened once, maybe twice, and you knew you guys were making out, it was going too far,

900
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:02.960
I get it. That might creep some of you out, but I get it. If it's happening after every single

901
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:11.040
makeout session, that would start to concern me, that would concern me that he is not in control

902
00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:17.120
or she is not in control. So I would say how often it would happen would concern me,

903
00:49:17.120 --> 00:49:23.200
and I think that would be Jackie's answer, but feel free to add that question on to ask Jackie.

904
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:28.080
Do we need, this is a really good question, I wanted to get to this one. Do we need to wait

905
00:49:28.080 --> 00:49:34.240
for a man or woman who has already decided to save sex for marriage because they want to honor God,

906
00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:39.360
or is it okay to date somebody who doesn't have that value but is willing to wait because he

907
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:46.560
wants to get to know you? I would say proceed with caution, proceed with caution, because here's how

908
00:49:46.560 --> 00:49:53.120
I will ask that question further. If the sex thing comes up pretty early on, and I get the comment,

909
00:49:53.680 --> 00:49:58.960
I had no intention of not having sex before marriage, but if that's something you want,

910
00:49:59.680 --> 00:49:59.840
I'll

911
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.640
honor you. So here's the next question I always ask. Okay, so now you've let me know where you

912
00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:09.920
stand on that. So if we're making out, we're both really turned on, maybe I'm a little tipsy,

913
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:14.160
and I say, hey baby, you know, I think I changed my mind. Let's just go ahead and have sex anyway.

914
00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:19.680
We've been together for six months. Will you stop me? Will you say, Renee, that's not what you want.

915
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:25.600
And if that guy says, no, I won't stop you, then that guy is not safe for me to date.

916
00:50:25.600 --> 00:50:35.280
Because I know that the willpower then is 100% on me. And I know me, I don't think I could do it

917
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:47.680
all by myself. Like I'm just just being real. So Vicki, that's a no. Vicki, that's a no. Let's

918
00:50:47.680 --> 00:50:52.320
see. Oh, thank you. Okay, I'm just now I'm going to scan through to make sure there's no other

919
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:57.280
private questions. If you want to be, how do you tell them that kissing is too much?

920
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:03.600
You know, I had a girlfriend, she had been through a lot of sexual assault, a lot of

921
00:51:05.040 --> 00:51:11.840
promiscuous behavior. And she met a really good godly man, and their first kiss was at the altar.

922
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:15.600
Now I'll tell you what, he laid it out thick. And it was the longest kiss I'd ever seen at the

923
00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:20.000
wedding altar. I mean, at the altar, and I was a little embarrassed by it. But they're pregnant

924
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:25.120
with their fourth child. And so somehow they made it work. And so I think you can just be honest,

925
00:51:25.120 --> 00:51:33.120
I will say this, make sure whatever boundaries you have with sex and intimacy, whether it's

926
00:51:33.120 --> 00:51:38.720
verbal intimacy, emotional intimacy, spiritual intimacy, sexual intimacy, make sure it's because

927
00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:43.520
it's lined up with scripture. And it's because you feel like it's what God's called you to do.

928
00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:49.600
Don't have a boundary up because you're afraid and something bad happened. And it's just something

929
00:51:49.600 --> 00:51:55.200
that you need to maybe work on. And so if you spiritually and personally feel like kissing

930
00:51:55.200 --> 00:52:02.080
before marriage is a no go, and you feel 100% that that's your answer, no matter what, then before

931
00:52:02.080 --> 00:52:06.400
you hit level three, you need to be honest about that. I mean, if he's not asking for a kiss in

932
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:11.520
level two, then you don't need to tell him. But at some point, if he's asking for a kiss, you might

933
00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:15.840
have to say something like, you know, I really don't want to kiss at this stage, I'm just not ready.

934
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:19.440
So maybe you don't say I'm not ready to kiss till marriage, you just say right now I'm not ready,

935
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:24.880
because I don't know, maybe if you court him long enough, it's healthy enough, you might want to

936
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:31.200
kiss him before you get married. So why pigeonhole yourself in that? How do you bring up being

937
00:52:31.200 --> 00:52:36.480
exclusive in stage two, if the guy has not mentioned anything, but is talking about future

938
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:42.160
dates together. And you can be really super, you know, I'm a Yankee, Gail teases me all the time,

939
00:52:42.160 --> 00:52:47.920
I just say it like it is. And I'm super direct about it. So I just say like, if he starts talking

940
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:54.720
about a future with me, I'll say something like, hey, you know, right now, I'm not aware if we're

941
00:52:54.720 --> 00:53:01.600
even exclusive yet. So it feels a bit odd to be talking about future conversations until we're

942
00:53:01.600 --> 00:53:07.440
exclusive. Are you ready to talk about being exclusive? Oh, no, no, no, I'm not ready. No

943
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.720
problem, then I'm not ready to start talking about the future with you. That's that's just

944
00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:18.160
a Hey, let's just keep enjoying each other's company. And if at some point you are ready to

945
00:53:18.160 --> 00:53:22.560
talk about being exclusive and the future, that's when I feel like that conversation would be more

946
00:53:22.560 --> 00:53:29.440
appropriate. Again, you guys, stage three of exclusive is different than end of stage three

947
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:34.800
exclusive stage three of exclusive is you probably want to start making out you start want to holding

948
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:40.000
hands you want to like focus only on that one person. So in that early stage, you've not said

949
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.480
that you're going to marry them. You're just saying that you're not going to marry them.

950
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:52.640
Nicole, I love it. I hope I'm not embarrassing anybody. And let's see. No, you cannot take

951
00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:57.360
Simbas as a single person. It's just the course isn't designed that way. You take an assessment,

952
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:02.720
he takes an assessment, and you spend the next eight weeks packing unpacking the compatibility

953
00:54:02.720 --> 00:54:09.040
of the program. But for sure, if you want go online, it's, it's the initial save your marriage

954
00:54:09.040 --> 00:54:14.000
before it starts, go online and read about it, it'll tell you what's in the test. It's really,

955
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:18.880
really in depth. So you basically take this very, very long assessment, they match you up,

956
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:26.720
and you spend the next eight weeks unpacking those results. Okay, anybody else? I mean, feel free

957
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:34.000
to if you want to be bold, you know, I'll be able to go another 10 minutes or so on this.

958
00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:42.800
Our wonderful friend menopause. I know y'all. I'm just I'd like to hear more guidance about

959
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:47.680
how to ask about what guardrails do you need in place for when you meet? Okay. Kim, that was a

960
00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:52.080
great question. Are you talking about the guardrails as it relates to pornography or sexual addiction?

961
00:54:52.080 --> 00:54:59.760
So, you know, it depends on what the addiction is. So

962
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.280
So if somebody like, you know, my nephew, um, got addicted to Adderall,

963
00:55:05.320 --> 00:55:06.640
which turned into something else.

964
00:55:06.640 --> 00:55:10.720
And so he knows he's in a level three relationship with his girlfriend.

965
00:55:10.720 --> 00:55:13.440
He knows at any time she can ask him to take a urine test.

966
00:55:14.080 --> 00:55:15.720
Like he's given her permission.

967
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:20.480
If his behavior seems off and he's starting to behave different, she's

968
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:23.520
allowed to say, Hey, I need you to take a urine test and he's not going to get

969
00:55:23.520 --> 00:55:25.800
offended because it's part of his past.

970
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.120
He relapsed once it's been five years.

971
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:32.320
But, you know, he has not been miraculously healed of his addiction.

972
00:55:32.560 --> 00:55:35.320
Some of us are miraculously healed from addictions.

973
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.800
The vast majority of us have to go through the long channel of healing

974
00:55:40.120 --> 00:55:44.600
and we need recovery programs and we need, um, accountability partners.

975
00:55:45.040 --> 00:55:49.600
Um, so the person that did confess to me about his pornography, the first

976
00:55:49.600 --> 00:55:53.600
thing I did ask is how long have you been sober and he gave me the length

977
00:55:53.600 --> 00:55:58.120
of time and I said, what is your accountability system to help keep you

978
00:55:58.160 --> 00:56:02.360
sober that we actually use the word sober, even though we were talking

979
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:06.600
about pornography and he mentioned who his accountability team was.

980
00:56:06.720 --> 00:56:10.400
And I said, okay, well, we're only in level two.

981
00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:15.200
What guardrails do you have up to make sure that you stay clean?

982
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:17.480
Now he knew exactly what I was talking about.

983
00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:18.520
And he said, you know what?

984
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:21.440
I can't watch shows like game of Thrones.

985
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:24.840
I can't watch this.

986
00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:30.120
Um, you know, and so he was very clear about what he can and can't do.

987
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.400
And I said, okay, well, if we were, um, at level three, I will bring up then

988
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.720
what I think I would need for guardrails.

989
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:42.520
So for me in a level three thinking about marriage, um, I would need to

990
00:56:42.520 --> 00:56:47.640
know that if I asked him, if like, as far as I would be concerned, um, I

991
00:56:47.640 --> 00:56:51.440
would say, you know, can I have access to your computer at any given time?

992
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.680
Like if I feel like your behavior starting to get weird, can I see your

993
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:56.840
computer history?

994
00:56:57.040 --> 00:56:58.720
Can I see your phone history?

995
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.240
Um, would that offend you?

996
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.520
Um, if that would offend you, what will you offer me as a guardrail?

997
00:57:05.520 --> 00:57:09.080
So I know that I can ask you that because if someone's owning up to an

998
00:57:09.080 --> 00:57:13.880
addiction and they know that they still need recovery for it, you get to be a

999
00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:18.080
part of what those guardrails look like, because it may have to be a part of your

1000
00:57:18.080 --> 00:57:18.600
marriage.

1001
00:57:19.240 --> 00:57:24.760
And you guys, here's how blunt, um, I have family members in wheelchairs and I

1002
00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:28.960
won't name names in case one of those people ever watches this video, but

1003
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:33.200
somebody said to his girlfriend before they got engaged, I need you to watch a

1004
00:57:33.200 --> 00:57:37.360
video of what sex with a paraplegic is going to look like, because I need to

1005
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.400
know that you're going to be okay with having sex with me that way.

1006
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:42.240
And you guys, I loved that.

1007
00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:45.200
I love that there was a very blunt conversation.

1008
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:46.440
Now, here's the thing.

1009
00:57:46.640 --> 00:57:48.720
You can be in a wheelchair and have amazing sex.

1010
00:57:48.720 --> 00:57:49.280
You really can.

1011
00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:51.280
It's just going to look potentially different.

1012
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:52.800
It might include Viagra.

1013
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:56.280
It might include additional things to make it happen.

1014
00:57:56.840 --> 00:58:00.320
Um, and so those are the, like, in my opinion, if you can't have those

1015
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.360
conversations at end level three and in engagement, you're marrying the wrong

1016
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:05.880
person.

1017
00:58:06.080 --> 00:58:09.400
And I say this from somebody who ran a pregnancy center.

1018
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:12.000
I can't tell you how many young couples I would have in front of me.

1019
00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:15.960
And I would ask very direct, blunt questions in front of them.

1020
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:17.440
They couldn't even look each other in the eye.

1021
00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:18.640
They're like, Oh, we don't know that.

1022
00:58:18.680 --> 00:58:19.200
Oh, we don't know that.

1023
00:58:19.200 --> 00:58:23.880
I'm like, Oh my gosh, you did the most intimate act on the planet already.

1024
00:58:24.120 --> 00:58:26.800
And y'all can't even talk about sex with each other.

1025
00:58:27.520 --> 00:58:32.200
Um, I mean, healthy sex at our age, you guys, we, some of us have had a lot of

1026
00:58:32.200 --> 00:58:32.720
trauma.

1027
00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:38.480
You're going to have to be able to have honest conversation about what, what you

1028
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:40.320
need to make it feel good.

1029
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:44.560
And if it hurts and it doesn't feel good, you are going to have to say something

1030
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:46.080
and please no faking it.

1031
00:58:46.120 --> 00:58:49.120
Like when you're married, please don't fake the, Oh, make sure that they know how

1032
00:58:49.120 --> 00:58:50.160
to do it correctly.

1033
00:58:50.520 --> 00:58:54.680
Um, and then you'll just set yourself up for a healthy, holy marriage.

1034
00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:57.600
I mean, a lot of us want amazing.

1035
00:58:58.640 --> 00:59:03.720
Spiritual intimacy, emotional intimacy, and sexual intimacy in our marriage.

1036
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:08.040
And the best way to do that is to date well, and I will end with this and take

1037
00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:09.800
any open questions that you have.

1038
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:11.240
You guys have been so good.

1039
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:11.680
I don't know.

1040
00:59:11.680 --> 00:59:15.480
Maybe some of you are dying in this conversation and it's been really hard to

1041
00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:16.040
sit through it.

1042
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:21.240
But some, a Christian counselor said this to me once, he said the same muscle that

1043
00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:26.880
you exercise to choose abstinence single is the same muscle you'll use for fidelity

1044
00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:27.400
married.

1045
00:59:28.600 --> 00:59:33.840
And so if you have a hard time being abstinent single, you're going to have a

1046
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:37.760
hard time being faithful married because at some point your spouse is going to

1047
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.280
upset you, piss you off long enough.

1048
00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:46.440
Be cranky, be fat, not in the mood and temptation will come around your place.

1049
00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:52.000
And if you couldn't say no abstinent, you will probably have a hard time saying no

1050
00:59:52.080 --> 00:59:52.760
married.

1051
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:56.920
Um, and I'm just saying that therapists have said that, and I, that has really

1052
00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:59.840
just changed the way I think about abstinence.

1053
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.360
Here's the thing too, I heard Tim Tebow's parents talk about this when he was talking

1054
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:06.360
about this.

1055
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:09.440
He goes, this is the model I set up for Tim when it came to abstinence.

1056
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.840
I told my kids to not change the bullseye.

1057
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:14.340
The bullseye is abstinence.

1058
01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:16.560
The bullseye is no sex until marriage.

1059
01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:19.980
He goes, I'm not saying my kids got it perfect every single time.

1060
01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:25.920
And sometimes the arrow, like archery, sometimes the arrow doesn't hit, but if you keep changing

1061
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:29.700
the target, you're never going to hit the target.

1062
01:00:29.700 --> 01:00:34.300
So our aim always should be to keep level two platonic.

1063
01:00:34.300 --> 01:00:38.500
The minute it starts to get romantic, be considering becoming exclusive.

1064
01:00:38.500 --> 01:00:42.780
When you're in level three, pay attention to what you're doing.

1065
01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.700
Aim for abstinence, even if you mess up.

1066
01:00:45.700 --> 01:00:46.700
Yes.

1067
01:00:46.700 --> 01:00:48.380
Is it hard to wind it back?

1068
01:00:48.380 --> 01:00:49.380
It is.

1069
01:00:49.380 --> 01:00:52.960
I promise you, I can say from experience, it can be done though.

1070
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:57.900
And so we want to encourage you to have great intimate relationships, but we want you to

1071
01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:00.380
honor each other well while you do it.

1072
01:01:00.380 --> 01:01:02.660
I don't want you to have emotional hangovers.

1073
01:01:02.660 --> 01:01:08.380
And ladies, you all know this, and men, maybe you know this too, I'll tell you what.

1074
01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:13.380
And I do think sex is an amazing, beautiful thing, but I do not miss the shame I felt

1075
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:18.340
post sex in a relationship that wasn't God honoring.

1076
01:01:18.340 --> 01:01:22.700
No sex is as good as how bad I would feel afterwards.

1077
01:01:22.700 --> 01:01:27.340
And that's me being honest in front of 107 people and whoever else watches that.

1078
01:01:27.340 --> 01:01:31.660
So I can just say that it is so much easier for a relationship to end.

1079
01:01:31.660 --> 01:01:38.380
I am not shattered and destroyed if I've not done too much too soon.

1080
01:01:38.380 --> 01:01:44.140
And so I know that my future husband is going to love that I'm taking this stand for him.

1081
01:01:44.140 --> 01:01:49.220
And I'm just hoping he will be patient as I relearn how to do everything and all of

1082
01:01:49.220 --> 01:01:50.220
that good stuff.

1083
01:01:50.220 --> 01:01:51.220
All right.

1084
01:01:51.220 --> 01:01:52.220
Anybody have any questions?

1085
01:01:52.220 --> 01:01:53.220
Hi, Renee.

1086
01:01:53.220 --> 01:01:54.220
All right.

1087
01:01:54.220 --> 01:01:55.220
Sounds good.

1088
01:01:55.220 --> 01:01:56.220
Hey.

1089
01:01:56.220 --> 01:01:57.220
Hey, everyone.

1090
01:01:58.100 --> 01:01:59.580
So David and I are back in Texas.

1091
01:01:59.580 --> 01:02:05.260
We just got home from California and we wanted to try to get in on the end of this conversation.

1092
01:02:05.260 --> 01:02:06.940
I'm glad we made it.

1093
01:02:06.940 --> 01:02:08.100
I'm at the end.

1094
01:02:08.100 --> 01:02:10.420
So this is perfect timing.

1095
01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:12.620
Perfect.

1096
01:02:12.620 --> 01:02:18.900
So if you have any questions, like Renee said, also, David and I are here as people having

1097
01:02:18.900 --> 01:02:25.020
sex to answer some of those questions about what sex looks like within marriage, what

1098
01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:28.740
sex looks like within courtship, because we were next-door neighbors.

1099
01:02:28.740 --> 01:02:32.780
And if you don't think we had plenty of opportunities to do the deed, we did.

1100
01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:33.780
You know, we're grown-up adults.

1101
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:38.640
We can go over each other's house whenever we want and do whatever we want.

1102
01:02:38.640 --> 01:02:41.900
And so we are here also to be part of that Q&A.

1103
01:02:41.900 --> 01:02:43.260
So take it away.

1104
01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:44.260
Let's see what we got.

1105
01:02:44.260 --> 01:02:45.260
Be free.

1106
01:02:45.260 --> 01:02:46.260
Who's got questions?

1107
01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:47.260
And David's here, too.

1108
01:02:47.260 --> 01:02:59.100
Yeah, hi, I'm Kim.

1109
01:02:59.100 --> 01:03:02.060
And I had sent a message recently.

1110
01:03:02.060 --> 01:03:09.180
I met someone in Singles Nation in my area, and I had just put out an all-points message

1111
01:03:09.180 --> 01:03:16.460
saying anyone living in Puyallup or Tacoma area, and this person responded yes.

1112
01:03:16.660 --> 01:03:19.660
In fact, there was someone else who did.

1113
01:03:19.660 --> 01:03:26.100
Anyway, it sounded like she liked it, and then I also told her that I had participated

1114
01:03:26.100 --> 01:03:31.460
in a number of the Zoom groups and that I was working my way through a heart work.

1115
01:03:31.460 --> 01:03:38.000
And she sent me a, I guess, a heart symbol, you know, back after me sending that.

1116
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:44.380
So my question is, just contemplating the next move, such as somehow making contact,

1117
01:03:44.380 --> 01:03:48.980
or if it's possible, maybe sending a friend request.

1118
01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:55.980
Just anyway, I'm just kind of, don't want to jump in too quickly, for sure.

1119
01:03:55.980 --> 01:04:02.100
All right, well, yeah, I definitely would.

1120
01:04:02.100 --> 01:04:05.660
She sent the last message, she sent you a heart?

1121
01:04:05.660 --> 01:04:06.660
Yeah.

1122
01:04:06.660 --> 01:04:07.660
How long ago was that?

1123
01:04:07.660 --> 01:04:09.020
That was just yesterday.

1124
01:04:09.020 --> 01:04:10.020
Okay.

1125
01:04:10.020 --> 01:04:11.020
Well, we want to respond.

1126
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:17.140
Gentlemen, first of all, I love it when y'all make the first move.

1127
01:04:17.140 --> 01:04:19.140
All women love it when y'all make the first move.

1128
01:04:19.140 --> 01:04:20.140
We like that.

1129
01:04:20.140 --> 01:04:23.340
But secondly, don't leave us on read for too long.

1130
01:04:23.340 --> 01:04:24.780
What does that mean?

1131
01:04:24.780 --> 01:04:28.980
That means we know you saw our message, and there isn't any response, because a lot of

1132
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:32.520
times if we think you're cute or we think you're interesting, we're on pins and needles

1133
01:04:32.520 --> 01:04:35.180
waiting for you to respond to us.

1134
01:04:35.180 --> 01:04:38.740
So any response is better than no response at all.

1135
01:04:38.740 --> 01:04:45.460
So I definitely would send a friend request for sure, and then also let her know that

1136
01:04:45.460 --> 01:04:46.460
you're sending one.

1137
01:04:46.460 --> 01:04:52.100
Say, hey, I sent you a friend request, so we can continue the conversation.

1138
01:04:52.100 --> 01:04:54.940
Just let her know that you sent it, hopefully.

1139
01:04:54.940 --> 01:04:58.460
Some people are real weird about friending people on Facebook that they don't know, even

1140
01:04:58.460 --> 01:04:59.580
though she's talking to you.

1141
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.560
She might not be friends right away if that's if that's the case and you're going to continue to

1142
01:05:04.560 --> 01:05:11.280
talk to her that way but suggest a phone call instead of just texting back and forth you know

1143
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:15.200
friend request her and then suggest a phone call say hey you know would you like to talk on the

1144
01:05:15.200 --> 01:05:20.000
phone sometime would you you know like to do a zoom or you know i'm probably not going to give

1145
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:26.240
you her phone number but guess what messenger has built-in face time right yes i've done that too

1146
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:31.440
yeah so go ahead and suggest hey would you like to face time over messenger here and

1147
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:36.800
you know talk a little bit and so that would be the next move that i would suggest you do

1148
01:05:37.760 --> 01:05:45.520
okay great thanks thank you and guys we want you guys to be the ones that suggest the face-to-face

1149
01:05:45.520 --> 01:05:52.240
whether it's the messenger or the zoom or the coffee or the walk whatever it is we we would

1150
01:05:52.240 --> 01:05:58.560
love for you to be the person that initiates that um and so that'd be great right so we do

1151
01:05:58.560 --> 01:06:05.120
have some sex questions in the chat renee and and it looks like it looks like i got the most of them

1152
01:06:05.120 --> 01:06:10.800
but feel free to pop in and say what you want to say to it oh you think that there isn't any more

1153
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:16.560
okay wait there's one for jackie david i feel like it's christmas and there's a present that's

1154
01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:23.760
says jackie and david how did you maintain sexual boundaries as neighbors while courting

1155
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:29.920
yeah it was really hard it was super hard right because we were very into each other we were very

1156
01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:35.840
attracted to each other by that time by that time when we're because you guys we dated for a very

1157
01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:41.280
short amount of time we were neighbors for four or five months and then we dated for a few months and

1158
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:48.800
we were only engaged for 17 days you guys um and here's the thing everyone needs to acknowledge

1159
01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:54.160
and i don't know if renee covered this but please acknowledge when you do get into a serious

1160
01:06:54.160 --> 01:07:01.600
relationship acknowledge that you really are anticipating the sexual part of your relationship

1161
01:07:01.600 --> 01:07:08.240
but that is not a reason to rush the nuptials that is not a reason to rush into getting married just

1162
01:07:08.240 --> 01:07:16.560
so that you can you know you can uh have sex legally right that's not a reason to do it and

1163
01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:22.720
um a lot of times if that really is something that's causing you to want to rush the engagement

1164
01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:32.080
kind of take a better look at that and um and and i'm not just saying that for um the guys on here

1165
01:07:32.080 --> 01:07:38.400
but ladies if you are in a relationship with someone and you know you got to level three pretty

1166
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:42.800
quickly and you feel like they're rushing you to the altar we got to take a deeper look at that

1167
01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:49.280
okay because a lot of times it's it is about the the lust factor the excitement factor and there's

1168
01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:54.400
nothing wrong with feeling super sexually attracted and aroused by someone and wanting

1169
01:07:54.400 --> 01:08:01.200
to end up you know in bed with them but once it's over you got to be compatible you got to be

1170
01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:05.120
compatible outside of the bedroom and so we got to make sure that we're not letting people rush us

1171
01:08:05.120 --> 01:08:12.160
so back to me and david um how did we well first of all i will tell you david and i were both

1172
01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:18.000
married before as you guys know so we both have had sex before um once again very attracted to

1173
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:28.960
each other but also resolute in the idea that we did not want to have sex before marriage if you

1174
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:33.680
are really in it to win it with that then there isn't anything that's going to cause you to do

1175
01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:40.640
that before you make that covenant and we were resolute in that we had both made a decision

1176
01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:46.880
that we were not going to we're going to do things god's way matter no matter how much we didn't want

1177
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:52.479
to do it god's way we were going to do it god's way and me specifically because in my first marriage

1178
01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:56.640
i didn't do it god's way and that marriage was a train wreck in a dumpster fire

1179
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:06.880
especially in the sexual department and so i was like you know i'm gonna do it god's way this time

1180
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.720
and so being resolute inside yourself the bible says that you have the spirit

1181
01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:18.720
of not fear but the spirit of love power and self-control and so don't be laying around on

1182
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:25.600
each other right don't be laying that that's not a gun in his pocket well it might be if you're in

1183
01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:37.359
texas but it's probably not it probably a knife yeah well or a knife once once that joins the

1184
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:42.800
party it's probably time to go home all right you're doing something that you probably don't

1185
01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:47.279
want to you don't want to start fires that you can't put out and so that's a good rule of thumb

1186
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:51.840
especially when we're adults and we have our own homes and our own apartments and we can do whatever

1187
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:57.680
we want inside of those places there isn't a parent or a chaperone or someone telling us no

1188
01:09:58.400 --> 01:09:59.920
and so that's when we have to really be

1189
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.800
leaning into that spirit of self-control. So that's the best. You guys, we came very,

1190
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:09.680
very, very close to saying, oh, the heck with it. But it was always that restraining of,

1191
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:13.680
you know what? I want to see what this looks like doing it God's way.

1192
01:10:14.400 --> 01:10:21.040
I really want to see what's different in this area if we really do it God's way.

1193
01:10:22.240 --> 01:10:26.800
I just really wanted that. I really wanted to see what that looked like. And I'm glad I did.

1194
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:31.920
I do not regret it even one second. All right. Any other questions for us? Any

1195
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:37.840
rest questions for the single Pringle, for Renee? We run into different things, right?

1196
01:10:40.240 --> 01:10:45.440
We'll tell you what it's like now and what it was like at the serious part of our relationship.

1197
01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:51.280
But then Renee was here to tell you, you know, basically the boat most of you are rowing right

1198
01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:59.440
now. I think it was good. You guys, I feel like, I mean, there's a lot of good feedback

1199
01:10:59.440 --> 01:11:04.880
in the comments. I feel like people had good, good stuff. And I got good questions. I got a

1200
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:08.960
lot of good questions ahead of time that I made sure I tackled. So I think it was good. I think

1201
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:16.480
it was a good, honest, heart to heart. And people stayed on the call. I still see faces. No one's

1202
01:11:16.480 --> 01:11:24.160
hiding. Sounds good. Someone just said, especially if you're a pyromaniac and that

1203
01:11:24.160 --> 01:11:31.280
just makes me want to laugh out loud. That's great. I see a question from Jackie and David

1204
01:11:31.280 --> 01:11:38.880
from Liz earlier in the chat. Okay. Let me look. I'm glad we got to you guys. I love talking about

1205
01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:44.160
sex. I'm glad that we were able to make it into this conversation at the end. Jackie and David,

1206
01:11:44.160 --> 01:11:48.560
did you feel less of a connection because of waiting? I'm in my first relationship where I

1207
01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:53.440
haven't had sex. And sometimes I feel scared because I worry he's not into me because he's

1208
01:11:53.440 --> 01:11:58.480
not pushing boundaries and actually will set a boundary. If I push it and remind me, he wants

1209
01:11:58.480 --> 01:12:04.000
to wait for marriage. Ah, good guy. Sometimes I feel the relationship is lacking something without

1210
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:09.360
the sexual connection. I can't put a finger on it, but I feel like I love touch and I miss that

1211
01:12:09.360 --> 01:12:14.720
and wonder what it's like with him. Okay. And so then this is where you have to start looking at

1212
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:18.800
your attachment style. Your attachment style has always been based on sex. That's how you,

1213
01:12:19.360 --> 01:12:23.760
that's how you felt connected. That's how you felt like someone wanted you or someone liked you or

1214
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:29.200
someone found you attractive. That shouldn't be how you know those things about somebody.

1215
01:12:29.200 --> 01:12:33.360
And I love what she said in this, you gentlemen, the ones that are here, the ones that will watch

1216
01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:39.920
and replay. I really believe in my heart of hearts that the man, the masculine should set

1217
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:47.600
the boundary when it comes to sex, not the feminine, the masculine should, the man should,

1218
01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:52.960
the man should set the boundary when it comes to sex. Because even if the woman is

1219
01:12:54.960 --> 01:13:02.160
playing to allow you to do that with her outside of a marriage covenant, you should be the man

1220
01:13:02.160 --> 01:13:07.920
and not do that with her. Because I'm just going to tell you, even if you marry that woman later

1221
01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:14.800
on, she's not going to respect you. You're like, but she wanted it. Yeah. In the heat of the moment,

1222
01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:22.960
she did want it. And as the man, you should have said, no, we're not going to do this.

1223
01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:30.400
I respect you. I love you for you than this. And I want us to save this for when we make a covenant

1224
01:13:30.400 --> 01:13:37.360
to each other. That is a very, very divinely masculine thing to do of protecting her, even

1225
01:13:37.360 --> 01:13:46.880
if you have to protect her from herself. Makes sense. So I love it. I love that Liz's boyfriend

1226
01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:52.880
is doing this. And I know right now it's kind of making you feel like, oh, he's not that into me.

1227
01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.520
No, it's actually showing a level of maturity.

1228
01:14:07.200 --> 01:14:12.480
You're like, wow, you know, you take you take the sexual contact out of a relationship,

1229
01:14:12.480 --> 01:14:18.320
then the relationship kind of becomes boring. You know, then you have to take a look at

1230
01:14:19.280 --> 01:14:25.360
why do you feel that way about sex? Why is that how you're feeling significant?

1231
01:14:25.360 --> 01:14:37.760
Why is that where you feel seen and feel known and love? And also, ladies coming from control.

1232
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:45.440
If we can't control a man sexually, we can't make him want us and make him call back because,

1233
01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:48.640
you know, he's excited about our next sexual encounter.

1234
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:53.440
Then we feel like we're losing control over that man. And that is the dark feminine.

1235
01:14:56.160 --> 01:14:59.840
If you can keep a man coming back without seducing him.

1236
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.120
If you can keep a man wanting to call you and go out with you and wanting to be in relationship

1237
01:15:05.120 --> 01:15:12.840
with you without using your sexuality to manipulate him, then you have a man that actually truly

1238
01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:19.840
deeply cares about you and isn't just there for the benefits.

1239
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:21.880
Amen.

1240
01:15:21.880 --> 01:15:33.760
I think that's a good answer.

1241
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:38.400
Some men are agreeing with me that they should definitely lead in this area.

1242
01:15:38.400 --> 01:15:39.400
And you know what?

1243
01:15:39.400 --> 01:15:40.400
She might get mad at you.

1244
01:15:40.400 --> 01:15:44.280
I've had men, I've coached men that have told me, yeah, you know what?

1245
01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:48.480
I know that we think that men are the only ones out on these dating apps that want to

1246
01:15:48.480 --> 01:15:50.920
have sex and are sending us eggplant emojis.

1247
01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:56.000
If you don't know what that means, ask a teenager or some young person in your life

1248
01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:58.280
and they will tell you.

1249
01:15:58.280 --> 01:16:02.720
But it isn't just the men that are wanting that kind of validation.

1250
01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.040
Women are out there too wanting that validation.

1251
01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:09.560
And I get men all the time, I've coached men that say, hey, you know, I'm on dates with

1252
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:13.880
women and you know, they want to kiss, they want to make out, you know, why?

1253
01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:15.440
Because she's trying to get validation.

1254
01:16:15.440 --> 01:16:20.760
She wants, you know, she wants him, she wants to feel liked and, you know, attractive and

1255
01:16:20.760 --> 01:16:21.800
all those things.

1256
01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:24.880
But it's happening to men too.

1257
01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:31.040
Christian men who want to save that for marriage are also trying to be pushed into sexual things,

1258
01:16:31.040 --> 01:16:36.040
not just women.

1259
01:16:36.040 --> 01:16:42.320
All right.

1260
01:16:42.320 --> 01:16:43.320
Do we have any other questions?

1261
01:16:44.200 --> 01:16:50.800
Hey Jackie, I want to ask a question, I've kind of sort of asked this before.

1262
01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:55.840
Let's say you're in that level three stage and or I was not in a level three, but I had

1263
01:16:55.840 --> 01:16:58.120
a guy ask me that, but it was inappropriate.

1264
01:16:58.120 --> 01:17:00.840
So I wanted to know, is it even, well, he didn't ask me that.

1265
01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:01.840
He told me something.

1266
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:05.120
And I wanted to know if it was, if you're in a level three is when, you know, when you

1267
01:17:05.120 --> 01:17:09.720
start having those, maybe you're in Cymbis or some other premarital counseling and you

1268
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:18.040
start having those conversations about sex and anatomy or what people's body look like.

1269
01:17:18.040 --> 01:17:32.240
And if a man is upfront about the lack of anatomy, how do you handle that?

1270
01:17:32.240 --> 01:17:36.960
If you're at a level three relationship, a marriage minded courtship with someone, and

1271
01:17:37.280 --> 01:17:43.440
they're worried as a man that they're not going to satisfy you.

1272
01:17:43.440 --> 01:17:47.480
And that, you know, that it's all about, you know, cause there's the rumor out there that

1273
01:17:47.480 --> 01:17:48.480
size matters.

1274
01:17:48.480 --> 01:17:49.480
Right.

1275
01:17:49.480 --> 01:17:51.840
And we all know what we're talking about here.

1276
01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:55.480
And here's the situation.

1277
01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:58.080
It's not, it's not, it's, it's not about the size matters.

1278
01:17:58.080 --> 01:18:01.160
It's about what, what you do with what you got.

1279
01:18:01.160 --> 01:18:02.160
Right.

1280
01:18:02.160 --> 01:18:08.520
And everyone's going to have all kinds of different sexual things that are either hangups

1281
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:13.120
or things based on trauma, things based on culture, things that we think we're supposed

1282
01:18:13.120 --> 01:18:14.120
to like.

1283
01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:15.920
I'm just going to get graphic with all y'all.

1284
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:20.800
A woman's vaginal canal at the most is about four to five inches deep.

1285
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:23.560
Anything more than that's pretty big waste of time.

1286
01:18:23.560 --> 01:18:24.560
All right.

1287
01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:26.240
Sorry, Renee.

1288
01:18:26.240 --> 01:18:31.920
And so I'm just going to tell you that all of those things that we hear in culture, we're

1289
01:18:32.680 --> 01:18:34.000
supposed to be counter-cultural people.

1290
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:35.560
We're kingdom people.

1291
01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:39.600
We're not supposed to take a page from the playbook of culture.

1292
01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:41.840
Sex is not just about orgasms.

1293
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:47.880
It's not just about, you know, people, you know, getting, you know, pleasure.

1294
01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:50.320
It is about intimacy.

1295
01:18:50.320 --> 01:18:52.360
It's about emotional intimacy.

1296
01:18:52.360 --> 01:18:55.720
And this is going to, it's going to freak some of you out that have never had this.

1297
01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:57.800
And you're like, how in the world can this be part of it?

1298
01:18:57.800 --> 01:19:00.280
It's about spiritual intimacy.

1299
01:19:01.280 --> 01:19:04.280
And some of you are like, well, I've never in my life.

1300
01:19:04.280 --> 01:19:05.280
Yes, you haven't.

1301
01:19:05.280 --> 01:19:06.280
But you know what?

1302
01:19:06.280 --> 01:19:11.280
May your next sexual encounter be with a covenant partner that wants to be spiritually intimate

1303
01:19:11.280 --> 01:19:12.280
with you.

1304
01:19:15.280 --> 01:19:17.280
Because I'm going to tell you what I call porn sex.

1305
01:19:17.280 --> 01:19:21.280
That's the kind of sex where they just use your body and you use their body.

1306
01:19:21.280 --> 01:19:25.280
And then after it's all over, everybody feels ashamed of themselves.

1307
01:19:25.280 --> 01:19:27.280
Even when you're married to them.

1308
01:19:27.280 --> 01:19:29.280
Because that is not what that's supposed to be like.

1309
01:19:29.280 --> 01:19:33.280
So to answer Tiffany's question, first of all, I don't think that it's necessary.

1310
01:19:33.280 --> 01:19:36.280
I think, you know, it's kind of like Christmas.

1311
01:19:36.280 --> 01:19:37.280
Let's let it be a surprise.

1312
01:19:37.280 --> 01:19:39.280
We don't need to know.

1313
01:19:39.280 --> 01:19:43.280
Unless you have some kind of medical problem, like impotent, you know, there's, there's,

1314
01:19:43.280 --> 01:19:48.280
there's impotence there, or there's some sort of sexual dysfunction or something else.

1315
01:19:48.280 --> 01:19:50.280
And it's like, I don't know.

1316
01:19:50.280 --> 01:19:55.280
There's impotence there, or there's some sort of sexual dysfunction or something else.

1317
01:19:55.280 --> 01:19:58.280
And in Simbis, we do encourage people to talk about these things.

1318
01:19:58.280 --> 01:20:00.280
You definitely want to talk about those things.

1319
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:03.640
those things. But as far as, you know, let me describe it to you,

1320
01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:07.000
see what you think of it. No, that isn't that's not necessary.

1321
01:20:07.920 --> 01:20:13.080
That is not necessary. And I think that it's degrading,

1322
01:20:13.080 --> 01:20:17.040
honestly, to you and to them. And the fact that they would

1323
01:20:17.040 --> 01:20:20.880
need to do that or feel like they wouldn't be enough, shows

1324
01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:24.800
me that they have heard too many rumors, too much locker room

1325
01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:28.560
talk that has to do with the broken and curse culture that

1326
01:20:28.560 --> 01:20:33.680
we're in, instead of the kingdom culture that we represent. And

1327
01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:36.920
so and here's the other thing, if you're just dating someone,

1328
01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:39.680
and you're really not not like, you're not in a marriage cut,

1329
01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:43.680
like a marriage courtship yet. A lot of times if someone starts

1330
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:49.240
talking like that, I had, I promise you, I had one couple

1331
01:20:49.240 --> 01:20:52.920
that I was dealing with, that were dating, they were not

1332
01:20:52.920 --> 01:20:55.600
courting, they weren't getting married anytime soon, but they

1333
01:20:55.600 --> 01:20:58.880
were dating. And they were dating within this community.

1334
01:20:59.280 --> 01:21:03.680
And they ended up sleeping together. And they ended up

1335
01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:07.960
sleeping together off of the stupid question. I don't, I

1336
01:21:07.960 --> 01:21:10.280
don't know if I'm really that attracted to you. Oh, well,

1337
01:21:10.280 --> 01:21:13.800
let's have sex and see if you're if you could be attracted to me

1338
01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:20.280
or not. What? What? So I feel like when people start talking

1339
01:21:20.280 --> 01:21:23.240
about their genitalia, start describing things start, you

1340
01:21:23.240 --> 01:21:26.040
know, wondering if it's going to be satisfying to you or not. I

1341
01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:28.160
feel like that's a slippery slope that could lead to a lot

1342
01:21:28.160 --> 01:21:31.400
of things that you don't want it to lead to. Anyone else feel

1343
01:21:31.400 --> 01:21:31.880
that way?

1344
01:21:35.440 --> 01:21:35.840
So

1345
01:21:44.840 --> 01:21:47.800
I just want to say thank you, Jackie and David for holding safe

1346
01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:52.160
space for us to even have this conversation. The church has

1347
01:21:52.160 --> 01:21:55.760
done so much of us so much damage. And I'm thankful for us

1348
01:21:55.760 --> 01:22:00.000
to have a holy conversation that's also honest. So thank

1349
01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:01.240
you for holding space.

1350
01:22:01.760 --> 01:22:05.640
Absolutely. I it's so important. And Jen asked, how do we set

1351
01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:09.080
realistic expectations for the wedding night? Especially if you

1352
01:22:09.080 --> 01:22:11.800
were married before and it's been a hot minute? Yeah, that's

1353
01:22:11.800 --> 01:22:14.560
such a good question. Because here's the thing. The thing is,

1354
01:22:14.560 --> 01:22:17.240
is that if it's been a hot minute, that means that the

1355
01:22:17.240 --> 01:22:21.320
wedding night is going to last a hot minute. It's probably going

1356
01:22:21.320 --> 01:22:27.320
to be over really quickly. It is. And that's why friends, when

1357
01:22:27.320 --> 01:22:32.360
it is time to be intimate again, let's put a lot of emphasis on

1358
01:22:32.360 --> 01:22:37.200
what we call foreplay. What is that? That's just being intimate

1359
01:22:37.200 --> 01:22:41.920
with each other, kissing each other and snuggling with each

1360
01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:46.000
other and talking with each other in this moment. You know,

1361
01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:50.000
it doesn't have to be straight to, you know, the the main

1362
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:56.320
event. And so you want to take some time. All right. I'm just

1363
01:22:56.320 --> 01:22:58.360
going to call David Dorman out because he's here. But my

1364
01:22:58.360 --> 01:23:04.160
husband, he made a mixtape. He made a mixtape for our

1365
01:23:04.160 --> 01:23:07.640
honeymoon. And wait, should I tell him about the bubbles and

1366
01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:11.560
the smoke? Okay, y'all, we say that we stayed in a bed and

1367
01:23:11.560 --> 01:23:16.000
breakfast on our wedding night. That was the only time we've

1368
01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:17.920
ever stayed in a bed and breakfast. That was the first

1369
01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:20.320
time in the last time. I don't think that I think that we're

1370
01:23:20.320 --> 01:23:24.320
actually not allowed to come back. And the reason why is

1371
01:23:24.320 --> 01:23:27.360
because it was in the basement of this beautiful farmhouse out

1372
01:23:27.360 --> 01:23:32.160
and not farmhouse, but old house out in Amish country. So it was

1373
01:23:32.160 --> 01:23:34.720
like the the entrance was outside entrance. It went down

1374
01:23:34.720 --> 01:23:39.640
to the suites that had a hot tub. It had a fireplace. It had

1375
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:43.560
all the things. And so we went straight there. We got we eloped

1376
01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:46.320
in like a little chapel in Amish country with just our kids and

1377
01:23:46.320 --> 01:23:50.520
our parents. Then we went to this bed and breakfast. And the

1378
01:23:50.520 --> 01:23:55.360
fire was already going. And the hot tub was already warm. And so

1379
01:23:55.600 --> 01:24:00.000
my husband, he's 36 years old. I'm 32 years old. We're now you

1380
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:05.080
know, Dave's over 50. I'm almost there. He didn't know that much

1381
01:24:05.080 --> 01:24:08.480
about a lot of the things that were going on there. And so

1382
01:24:08.520 --> 01:24:15.320
because because of that, he ended up the flu got cold

1383
01:24:15.320 --> 01:24:18.760
basically, that's the bottom line. So we we left the fire

1384
01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:21.760
was kind of burning, we let it kind of get cold. And then we

1385
01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:24.320
came back, we left for a minute, we got some Mexican food,

1386
01:24:24.320 --> 01:24:27.480
because we were really hungry. We came back to this room. And

1387
01:24:27.480 --> 01:24:30.680
long story short, I went into the bathroom to change, you

1388
01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:34.000
know, to change, get a little sexy and change. And when I came

1389
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:38.240
out, my husband had put bath and body works bubble bath in the

1390
01:24:38.240 --> 01:24:42.520
jacuzzi. Okay, put a couple drops of that in the jacuzzi.

1391
01:24:42.800 --> 01:24:46.760
And he didn't realize the flu had gotten cold and close. So

1392
01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:50.040
when I came out of the bathroom, you guys I had to stop drop and

1393
01:24:50.040 --> 01:24:54.320
roll. I was on the floor crawling across the floor of

1394
01:24:54.320 --> 01:24:58.360
this air of this, of this bed and breakfast because the entire

1395
01:24:58.360 --> 01:25:00.040
room was filled

1396
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.980
with black smoke and bubbles.

1397
01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:06.100
The whole room, it was like a scene of the Brady Bunch.

1398
01:25:06.100 --> 01:25:07.500
It was crazy.

1399
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:09.900
And I crawled, I crawled the floor,

1400
01:25:09.900 --> 01:25:12.420
I crawled the floor and I crawled up the steps

1401
01:25:12.420 --> 01:25:15.860
and out of the house and I was sitting out there

1402
01:25:15.860 --> 01:25:17.620
in this white robe that they provided,

1403
01:25:17.620 --> 01:25:19.260
these like cotton white robes,

1404
01:25:19.260 --> 01:25:22.260
covered with soot and bubbles.

1405
01:25:22.260 --> 01:25:24.900
Covered with smoke, soot and bubbles.

1406
01:25:24.900 --> 01:25:27.820
And some man walked by, ended up being the guy

1407
01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:30.140
that owned the bread and breakfast.

1408
01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:33.320
And he said, he said, hmm, he said, honeymoon?

1409
01:25:33.320 --> 01:25:35.120
And I said, yes, sir.

1410
01:25:35.120 --> 01:25:36.400
And he said, carry on.

1411
01:25:37.700 --> 01:25:39.820
That's literally what he said.

1412
01:25:39.820 --> 01:25:41.340
It was crazy.

1413
01:25:41.340 --> 01:25:43.380
It was crazy town.

1414
01:25:43.380 --> 01:25:44.860
And so yeah, that put a huge damper

1415
01:25:44.860 --> 01:25:46.420
on the romance of that night.

1416
01:25:46.420 --> 01:25:48.900
But once again, my husband made a mixtape.

1417
01:25:49.980 --> 01:25:52.660
And so on your honeymoon night, Jen,

1418
01:25:52.660 --> 01:25:55.960
you're gonna wanna pack a lunch and stay a while, all right?

1419
01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:58.920
It's gonna be, it's gonna be,

1420
01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:03.320
listen, it's gonna be like a baseball game.

1421
01:26:03.320 --> 01:26:06.120
There should be several innings to this game.

1422
01:26:06.120 --> 01:26:09.000
It's not a situation where, you know,

1423
01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:10.680
you wanna rush anything.

1424
01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:12.880
And that's how it's gonna be really enjoyable for you

1425
01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:15.840
because otherwise, once again, you go to the main event,

1426
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:19.720
that's gonna be very, very, very, very fast.

1427
01:26:19.720 --> 01:26:22.640
And remember, for those of you that have never been married,

1428
01:26:22.640 --> 01:26:23.800
you guys need to hear this.

1429
01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:25.520
And you've, and for those of you that are virgins,

1430
01:26:26.080 --> 01:26:26.920
you've never had sex,

1431
01:26:26.920 --> 01:26:30.560
you get to a place of familiarity with that person

1432
01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:33.160
where, you know, in a good way,

1433
01:26:33.160 --> 01:26:35.360
where you're just really comfortable.

1434
01:26:35.360 --> 01:26:39.560
You're really just in a space where you trust each other.

1435
01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:42.640
Sex is so good when you trust each other emotionally,

1436
01:26:42.640 --> 01:26:44.520
you trust each other spiritually,

1437
01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:46.280
you trust each other physically.

1438
01:26:46.280 --> 01:26:49.480
And then it'll get longer.

1439
01:26:49.480 --> 01:26:52.880
The times between start and climax will get longer

1440
01:26:52.880 --> 01:26:55.840
and longer and longer, hopefully for most people.

1441
01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:57.960
And especially if you add in the things

1442
01:26:57.960 --> 01:26:59.560
that I'm talking about.

1443
01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:01.560
So that's what you do.

1444
01:27:07.400 --> 01:27:09.440
Donovan, I'm glad we can entertain you.

1445
01:27:16.280 --> 01:27:18.240
I agree, I think this is great.

1446
01:27:18.240 --> 01:27:22.040
I'm just glad we get some social help like I do

1447
01:27:22.040 --> 01:27:25.080
because for our marital status,

1448
01:27:25.080 --> 01:27:26.680
for people that don't know what they're doing

1449
01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:27.760
or have heart problems,

1450
01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:29.880
because this is their only life tutoring.

1451
01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:32.440
I've had life tutoring from school to work,

1452
01:27:32.440 --> 01:27:35.200
independent living, and now this for my marital status.

1453
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.480
Yeah, well, you're going to be well equipped.

1454
01:27:40.480 --> 01:27:44.120
So friends, remember that this is why you need to be,

1455
01:27:44.120 --> 01:27:45.160
this is one of the reasons

1456
01:27:45.160 --> 01:27:46.760
why you need to marry your best friend.

1457
01:27:46.760 --> 01:27:48.960
Best friends make the best lovers

1458
01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:51.760
because this is a place in your life

1459
01:27:52.440 --> 01:27:54.840
where you're just really going to want

1460
01:27:54.840 --> 01:27:56.720
to be able to trust that person.

1461
01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:00.240
Just really trust them and really know

1462
01:28:00.240 --> 01:28:03.400
that they deeply care about you

1463
01:28:03.400 --> 01:28:06.240
and about your feelings in all ways,

1464
01:28:06.240 --> 01:28:08.520
in this area and then the other way.

1465
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:10.280
And guys and women,

1466
01:28:11.120 --> 01:28:13.440
intimacy does not start in the bedroom.

1467
01:28:13.440 --> 01:28:14.320
It starts in the kitchen.

1468
01:28:14.320 --> 01:28:15.280
It starts in the living room.

1469
01:28:15.280 --> 01:28:18.240
It starts in the car when you're driving together

1470
01:28:18.240 --> 01:28:23.240
and you're fussing and fighting or telling someone

1471
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:27.000
how to do something critical.

1472
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:31.440
There isn't anything that kills a man's sexual desire

1473
01:28:31.440 --> 01:28:35.120
more than a critical and nagging wife.

1474
01:28:36.760 --> 01:28:37.600
And there isn't anything

1475
01:28:37.600 --> 01:28:39.480
that kills a woman's sexual desire

1476
01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:42.880
more than a man who only wants to touch her

1477
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:46.640
or only wants to be romantic or say nice things to her

1478
01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:48.960
when he wants that outcome.

1479
01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:52.360
Women have to be,

1480
01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:55.560
the foreplay doesn't just start in the bedroom.

1481
01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:59.080
It starts in the morning when y'all are eating breakfast

1482
01:28:59.080 --> 01:29:02.840
before you go off your separate ways for working.

1483
01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:04.040
The way you talk to each other,

1484
01:29:04.040 --> 01:29:05.800
the way you smile at each other.

1485
01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:07.640
Never stop flirting when you get married.

1486
01:29:07.640 --> 01:29:10.200
David and I, we are some flirty people.

1487
01:29:11.560 --> 01:29:12.400
All right?

1488
01:29:12.400 --> 01:29:13.920
And we've been married for 16 years.

1489
01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:15.720
So I'm just gonna tell you, it's not gonna stop.

1490
01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:17.640
This is never gonna end.

1491
01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:20.560
And we laugh and we joke around

1492
01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:25.360
and all the things that you do during that courting stage,

1493
01:29:25.360 --> 01:29:28.280
you're gonna wanna take that into the marriage.

1494
01:29:28.280 --> 01:29:29.440
That's what's gonna give you

1495
01:29:29.440 --> 01:29:32.280
that beautiful, healthy, intimate life.

1496
01:29:33.120 --> 01:29:35.520
And for those of you that are gonna have kids,

1497
01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:36.600
you're gonna add kids to the mix

1498
01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:38.760
or maybe you already have blended families,

1499
01:29:38.760 --> 01:29:40.760
the times that you're truly sexually intimate

1500
01:29:40.760 --> 01:29:42.920
may be few and far between.

1501
01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:46.040
Kids have a way of just killing your libido a little bit.

1502
01:29:46.040 --> 01:29:49.400
And there's just all kinds of different things that happen.

1503
01:29:49.400 --> 01:29:51.880
I remember one time I was sexting my husband.

1504
01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:54.560
I was sending him, oh my God.

1505
01:29:54.560 --> 01:29:57.320
I was sending him all of this kind of like,

1506
01:29:57.320 --> 01:29:58.920
saying this and saying that.

1507
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:04.240
And we were on a family vacation at the time and he wasn't with me.

1508
01:30:04.240 --> 01:30:10.680
The problem is, is I didn't know that our 18 year old daughter, Kaylee, had his phone

1509
01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:12.480
and not him.

1510
01:30:12.480 --> 01:30:18.000
So she was getting these, she was, these text messages were popping up on his phone from

1511
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:24.640
me because she had borrowed his phone to do whatever.

1512
01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:26.760
And you know, they weren't, I mean, they weren't crazy.

1513
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:31.080
They weren't like X rated or nothing, but they was definitely R rated.

1514
01:30:31.080 --> 01:30:36.560
And anyway, when we all got back together, I just remember my daughter's face.

1515
01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:40.260
She just looked at me and she was like, I had dad's phone today.

1516
01:30:40.260 --> 01:30:47.240
And I was like, and then I was like, well, I guess, you know, I guess, I guess this was

1517
01:30:47.240 --> 01:30:49.640
a great education for you then.

1518
01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:59.520
So, but you know, keep it fresh, be able to, you know, and once again, it's not just

1519
01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:00.520
about the act.

1520
01:31:00.520 --> 01:31:01.840
It's not just about the sexual act.

1521
01:31:01.840 --> 01:31:03.120
It's about the respect.

1522
01:31:03.120 --> 01:31:08.240
It's about the honor that you carry for that person in everyday life.

1523
01:31:08.240 --> 01:31:10.160
That's what it's about.

1524
01:31:10.160 --> 01:31:11.800
Relationships that are built on lust.

1525
01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:12.800
Those relationships.

1526
01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:13.800
Yeah.

1527
01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:17.660
It's hot in the bedroom until, until it's not.

1528
01:31:17.660 --> 01:31:22.720
And then after it's over with, there's shame there, there's fear there.

1529
01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:24.020
There's disconnection there.

1530
01:31:24.020 --> 01:31:26.900
This is why we don't have sex outside of covenant.

1531
01:31:26.900 --> 01:31:30.820
It actually, did you know that sex outside of covenant actually creates disconnection

1532
01:31:30.820 --> 01:31:31.820
instead of connection?

1533
01:31:31.820 --> 01:31:38.060
It'll actually do the exact opposite of what God has ordained it to do.

1534
01:31:38.060 --> 01:31:43.420
Sex has been ordained to bring connection, to bring oneness to a covenant couple.

1535
01:31:43.420 --> 01:31:47.700
If you have sex with someone that you're not in a covenant with, it will actually cause

1536
01:31:47.700 --> 01:31:49.740
disconnection.

1537
01:31:49.740 --> 01:31:53.460
You might've liked that person before, but now you're going to start getting kind of

1538
01:31:53.460 --> 01:31:54.580
suspicious of them.

1539
01:31:54.580 --> 01:31:56.740
You're going to start feeling disconnected from them.

1540
01:31:56.740 --> 01:32:00.660
You're going to start feeling jealous about them or paranoid, or, you know, you're going

1541
01:32:00.660 --> 01:32:06.420
to start, you know, thinking sketchy thoughts about them because you, you entered into a

1542
01:32:06.420 --> 01:32:11.660
holy act in an unholy way.

1543
01:32:11.660 --> 01:32:17.900
You brought all kinds of dis in there, this, this, this, this.

1544
01:32:17.900 --> 01:32:21.580
I can't tell you how many people show up in my inbox after they've been dating someone

1545
01:32:21.580 --> 01:32:22.860
very seriously.

1546
01:32:22.860 --> 01:32:23.860
Yes.

1547
01:32:23.860 --> 01:32:27.060
Within this community, very seriously, it looked like it was going to go all the way

1548
01:32:27.060 --> 01:32:30.620
to marriage, you know, was going really, really, really well.

1549
01:32:30.620 --> 01:32:32.540
And then they're like, they broke up with me.

1550
01:32:32.540 --> 01:32:36.580
What do you, what, wait, what the, yeah, they just, they broke up with me.

1551
01:32:36.580 --> 01:32:41.980
The very first question I ask when that happens is, did y'all have sex?

1552
01:32:41.980 --> 01:32:47.620
And 99% of the time, the answer is yes.

1553
01:32:47.620 --> 01:32:50.980
Causes disconnection y'all don't do it.

1554
01:32:50.980 --> 01:32:52.900
Do not do it.

1555
01:32:52.900 --> 01:32:55.420
It's not about raw laws or rules.

1556
01:32:55.420 --> 01:32:57.140
It's not about laws or rules.

1557
01:32:57.140 --> 01:33:01.460
It is about God's way is the best way.

1558
01:33:01.460 --> 01:33:05.860
And there's a reason why God does the things that he does his way.

1559
01:33:05.860 --> 01:33:06.860
There's a reason.

1560
01:33:06.860 --> 01:33:09.860
And it's not just to keep you from having fun.

1561
01:33:09.860 --> 01:33:12.860
Uh, I'm a Jackie.

1562
01:33:12.860 --> 01:33:16.860
Oh, we just had time for one more.

1563
01:33:16.860 --> 01:33:19.860
We're just going to have time for one more question, Hunter.

1564
01:33:19.860 --> 01:33:20.860
So go ahead.

1565
01:33:20.860 --> 01:33:24.860
Tell it to me in 15 seconds or less so we can let everyone go.

1566
01:33:24.860 --> 01:33:30.860
I think I just, uh, maybe, uh, when I heard if we're dating, I understand we should have

1567
01:33:30.860 --> 01:33:33.860
sustained it physically and set boundaries where we kiss on a cheek.

1568
01:33:33.860 --> 01:33:37.860
Would it hurt to just kiss on the cheek and just leave it there and not on the mouth or

1569
01:33:37.860 --> 01:33:38.860
lips?

1570
01:33:38.860 --> 01:33:39.860
Cause that, that makes sense to me.

1571
01:33:39.860 --> 01:33:40.860
Oh, Hunter.

1572
01:33:40.860 --> 01:33:41.860
That's sweet.

1573
01:33:41.860 --> 01:33:45.860
And yes, if that's what you decide between the two of you, then that's wonderful.

1574
01:33:45.860 --> 01:33:48.500
Some people may decide to do a little more than that.

1575
01:33:48.500 --> 01:33:53.780
They may decide to kiss on the mouth and may decide to, you know, you know, hug a little

1576
01:33:53.780 --> 01:33:54.780
bit.

1577
01:33:54.780 --> 01:33:55.780
They may decide to hold hands.

1578
01:33:55.780 --> 01:34:00.860
You guys, the people that don't actually kiss each other ever before the ceremony, I think

1579
01:34:00.860 --> 01:34:05.860
that can be super sweet and very precious and very, you know, holy and supernatural.

1580
01:34:05.860 --> 01:34:10.460
If that is the conviction that God has given you, I have seen videos of people like that

1581
01:34:10.460 --> 01:34:14.380
where I'm like, wow, that seemed really supernatural.

1582
01:34:14.380 --> 01:34:18.420
And then I've also seen videos of people like that where I'm like, wow, that was super weird

1583
01:34:18.420 --> 01:34:19.500
and awkward.

1584
01:34:19.500 --> 01:34:25.020
So I feel like it go either way, but I, it has to be the conviction of the two people

1585
01:34:25.020 --> 01:34:26.020
involved.

1586
01:34:26.020 --> 01:34:29.140
I had one couple that didn't even see each other while they were dating.

1587
01:34:29.140 --> 01:34:33.140
Like they didn't know what each other looked like for like the first month and they're

1588
01:34:33.140 --> 01:34:37.740
married now, you know, I knew what both of them looked like cause I match made them.

1589
01:34:37.740 --> 01:34:41.820
But when I found out that they'd been talking on the phone and had never, ever, ever seen

1590
01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:46.940
each other besides the pictures that I showed each other of them, I was like, Oh, I don't

1591
01:34:46.940 --> 01:34:47.940
recommend that.

1592
01:34:47.940 --> 01:34:51.780
So, you know, sometimes people do things that, you know, we as coaches don't recommend and

1593
01:34:51.780 --> 01:34:56.220
it's still, it turns out that God told them to do that and, and it works out really well

1594
01:34:56.220 --> 01:34:57.220
for them.

1595
01:34:57.220 --> 01:35:00.020
So you guys listen to Holy Spirit, let him guide you.

1596
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:06.720
in this area. All right. As long as it doesn't go against God's covenantal laws of this,

1597
01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:12.800
then I feel like it's safe for you to let God lead and guide you individually in relationship.

1598
01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:18.000
All right. So thanks, Renee, for letting us jump in. David's just sitting here laughing

1599
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:22.080
the whole time. You can tell, you can see he didn't say, you don't want to say nothing.

1600
01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:25.120
Oh, I have long answers. That's the problem.

1601
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:35.360
Good news is everything I said completely lined up with everything you said. So I feel good that

1602
01:35:35.360 --> 01:35:40.800
I've been a good student this whole time. You have, you've been a good student and,

1603
01:35:41.360 --> 01:35:49.040
and you guys, it's never too late to stop doing things the wrong way. It isn't. So if you've been

1604
01:35:49.040 --> 01:35:53.280
doing it the wrong way, because you thought that that was where you were getting significance,

1605
01:35:53.280 --> 01:35:57.360
you're really hoping that, you know, that was going to cause things to go to marriage,

1606
01:35:58.080 --> 01:36:01.440
you know, or, you know, you just really miss being touched and you really just,

1607
01:36:01.440 --> 01:36:06.160
you know, all the things we get it, but you, you can, you can stop now. You can repent,

1608
01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:12.560
turn away from that, turn to God's way. And I promise you it will, it will go way better for

1609
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:20.240
you in the future. All right. Love y'all. Thanks for letting us stop in.