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You know, it's still a practice that I honestly just have to, I don't know, pick up every

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day.

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Because there is a part of me that's prone to going back to, you know, to hiding or to

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isolating or to, you know, figuring it out on my own.

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So yeah.

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And that's, I think that's something I think for men, especially, I mean, I think modern

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women do that as well.

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They just do it differently.

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But in terms of just the taking on the burden ourselves, you know, that is, that's the part

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where that's why the cross in salvation is so profound.

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But if you've, if you've been trained in religion, let me put it that way, because walking with

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Jesus, having a relationship with the Lord, being in church, there can be lots of different

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interpretations of that.

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But if you've been trained in church or religion or that kind of culture for a while, you can

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ease, you can come to the point where you're dealing with your humanity, dealing with all

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of your stuff, sort of like put away the profoundness of the cross.

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Because it's like, it's like, I would be, I was raised in church and so I understood

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this from a very early age.

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And so when I became a young man, late teens, early twenties, and I'm like encountering

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the real world sort of for the first time in my life in independence and in all that

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kind of way.

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And I would see people just get really saved and really have this transformation.

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They have this encounter because it was their first time in that sort of way, receiving

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this truth of they've lived in the, the, all of the trauma and the, the, the weight of

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sin for their whole life.

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And then for the first time, you're hearing, Hey, you don't have to really carry that burden

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anymore.

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You're like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

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That's mind blowing.

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That's like, you're just like, man, you're giving me like, seriously, I can come out

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of this prison and hear a lot of other individuals like myself, yet we've been on a prison for

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a long time.

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We're kind of really, we're kind of in it as fast, especially if you got saved and when

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you're very, very young, you don't really realize the burden of sin in that way except

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for you do because you still are sinful.

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You still are carrying the weight of sin because you're not processing in this way that we're

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talking about.

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Like you're still, Oh, I've got a, I've got to religion has a way of being a very poor

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taskmaster to try to still put it back on you, just try to put it back in.

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You've, you've got it, you're still not getting it right.

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You're still not, you're still missing it.

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You're still the, you know, there's always a carrot in front of you.

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There's always something else to achieve spiritually, you know, in your religiosity.

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And so that can be just as destructive of just flat out, not being saved at all.

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You know?

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So we work out all of our individual salvation with fear and trembling in the sense that

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it's like, I have to come to, uh, uh, an authentic point for me, right?

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And it's, it's groups like this.

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And I love the fact that you, that you were able to have confession within a group of

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men and, and that, uh, that you felt comfortable and loved and championed and secure enough

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to be able to do that.

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That is one of the things that, you know, we talked about last week was, you know, that's

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like week three, um, is repentance and confession.

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You know, of course we, we talk about that scripture, confessing your sins one for another

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and, uh, and being healed.

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And so that is part of the, um, the heartwork journey in that process.

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Um, week four, uh, heart check in number four, we are getting into the area of forgiveness.

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So first of all, permission, we give Holy Spirit permission to come in and to reveal

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the areas of our heart that need helping that traumas that need healed.

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We then begin to reveal the lies and the untruth that we're believing about ourselves,

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about God, about situations, about other people.

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And then as we begin to realize the truth, we come into agreement.

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with the truth. So we repent, as I was saying at the beginning

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of the call. So we go through repentance. And then through the

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process of repentance, at the end of that comes the confession

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part where we have to confess, this is the behavior, this is

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the actions, these are the things that I've been involved

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with, this is the patterns of thinking that I've had. I'm

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confessing these things, because now I'm realizing the truth and

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the process of coming out of agreement and repenting. The

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confession is sort of the processing of that. And then

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comes the very important part of forgiveness, which is the

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releasing and the untethering of what has happened to you, what

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has happened through you, and what has happened because of

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you. Right? Because sometimes we need to release forgiveness

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towards someone else. Sometimes we need to release forgiveness

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towards ourselves, we need to forgive ourselves. And then

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sometimes we need to be forgiven because of what we've done to

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others. So depending on who you are in the story, and what story

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we're talking about at which time, you can be all three. And

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trust me, I've been all three. And so it's all good. So

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founding scriptures, of course, in this area of forgiveness,

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Ephesians 4.23, forgive one another, just as God forgave

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you because of what Christ has done. So God, who doesn't have

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to forgive you, because he's holy, and he's perfect, and he's

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right, and he is far above us. But because of what Christ did,

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God then has the ability or has the measure to be able to

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forgive you because of what Christ did. So that's powerful.

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And Colossians 3.13, remember, the Lord forgave you, so you

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must also forgive others. Does anybody struggle with that?

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Because even though you understand mentally, you know,

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like, like, hey, you know, I know I've been forgiven. But

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this thing about forgiving someone else, because of what

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I've been through that. It's hard. Sometimes. Anybody? Yeah.

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Anybody want to talk about that? What happened? What that was?

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Oh, I don't know. Was that somebody else come up? I'll jump

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in. And this one's, it's super personal. And it's taken better

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part of like seven months. So I think I've been divorced for

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maybe three years, separated and divorced for almost five,

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something like that. And then I had really the honor and

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privilege of taking a shot at reconciliation last summer. And

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so, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so without getting into any of the

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details, 88 days, Labor Day of 23. Essentially, my former

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spouse said she couldn't do this. And she said, we're done.

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And and so I gave her the space she needed to check back in a

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week later and really asked, you know, I was confused, shocked,

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everything kind of came out of the blue for me. At least the

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pace that we were at kind of the things that we were navigating

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toward. And, and so as I circled back, you know, can we end?

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Well, can I can you help me understand? She doubled, she

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ultimately doubled down like, well, you weren't doing this,

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and you weren't doing that. And she kind of had the secret list

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of things that she'd been keeping an eye on.

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My ex wife wrote me wrote me that list.

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Yeah, it's, and it's like, I mean, it's triggered something

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really, really deep in me that hasn't been active for quite a

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while. This just deeper shame and identity. And so I had I do

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voice memo, like, for me to get something out of my body, like

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I'll pull my phone out and record, like, it's so whether

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it's writing or whatever, for me, it's voice memo. Yeah, I

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just felt I felt foolish. I felt angry. I felt betrayed. I lied

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to you. I mean, I feel like all these big emotions. And, and

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it's taken since September, whatever, whatever Labor Day is

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last year, for me to work on letting go of that, like,

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that's and I

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I don't even know if I could say fully forgiven.

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I don't know if I'll end up,

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I don't think she feels like I need to forgive her,

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but in my heart, like there's a blockage,

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or at least that blockage is getting smaller,

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and so I need to release, like fully release that.

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There's a part of me that's still holding on, so.

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Okay, so it's just a process.

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Yeah.

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Really, yeah.

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That's it.

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And I think that's more honest and real

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than just like, oh, I've forgiven,

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you know, I've taken care of that.

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It's like, that's just in the past,

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and I've already processed that and everything.

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It's like, well, that's kind of one of the big things

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about heart work in terms of it being a protocol,

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a step-by-step sort of process

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that you can really condense.

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I mean, obviously you can, when you're learning it,

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you're processing it for the first time or whatever,

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or processing it for real, I guess,

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for the first time sometimes,

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because I know a lot of people have done heart work

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and a lot of these processes and counseling

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or whatever in the past,

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but it is a template that you can take with you

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for the rest of your life to process things

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and to get good at processing them.

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There was a book that was written years ago

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called The Road Less Traveled.

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M. Scott Peck wrote this book,

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and it is based on the poem by Longfellow,

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The Road Less Traveled.

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And he starts the book out with life is hard.

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That's the first sentence of the book.

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Life is hard.

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And his point in the book,

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the very first sort of point he makes is that, you know,

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if you take the road less traveled,

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it's hard because it's less traveled,

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and it's not easy to get down

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because the path is not as wide

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and there's not as much, you know,

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ease to get down that road.

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But if you learn early on how to solve problems

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and become a good problem solver,

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then life becomes easier.

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And you get to the end of the path

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and you enjoy the product of the road less traveled

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and you get good at these things and life becomes easier.

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And so the same thing with heartwork, you know,

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the more you get good at coming into surrender, permission,

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and coming into these ideas

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of changing your thought patterns and coming into truth,

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processing repentance, confession, and forgiveness,

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then the easier life becomes when you do it.

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So it's a tool for you.

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You know, forgiveness really,

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and guys, I don't know if you've ever thought

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about this before,

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but how many of you thought about just forgiveness

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in general, outside of this work?

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And there's like, you know, you've understood like, okay,

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we all understand that forgiveness is necessary,

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but if you've ever,

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very few people have ever spent any time

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actually thinking about forgiveness,

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like forgiving or the fact that you have to forgive,

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but forgiveness is not a feeling.

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Forgiveness doesn't happen when you feel like it.

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Like if you're ever processing forgiveness and going, okay,

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I know I need to forgive,

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but I'm going to do it when it's really authentic.

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And when it's really authentic,

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I'll probably feel something.

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So at that moment is when I'll process forgiveness.

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And that just isn't true

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because lots of times that feeling never happens.

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Lots of times the feeling of what you should do

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never comes to motivate you to do it.

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So relying on a feeling to process forgiveness is incorrect

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because forgiveness isn't a feeling,

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not that they can't be associated with feelings,

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but forgiveness itself, the process is not a feeling.

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It's a choice.

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It is something that you do of your own volition.

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It's something that you do

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because it's not just the right thing to do.

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It is the right thing to do,

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but that's not the only motivation.

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You don't do forgiveness just because,

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well, it's just the right thing to do.

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I mean, if that's enough, fine.

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But forgiveness is also something that releases

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not only the other person, but it also releases you.

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It is the culmination of the forgiveness,

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of the repentance and confession.

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So as repentance is changing the mind,

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confession is an action of sort of like admitting it

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and coming into like vocalizing it,

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the forgiveness part.

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is the releasing.

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It is the chains literally falling to the ground portion

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of this healing process, right?

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The bandage is coming off because you have released

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and you've untethered yourself from this situation.

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And if an abuser, if somebody has abused you

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and they were the abuser and you're the victim,

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as long as you have walk in unforgiveness towards the abuser,

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then you're still the victim.

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So if you don't wanna be the victim anymore,

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for instance, this is just a for instance,

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if you don't wanna be the victim anymore,

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then you have to release the abuser, right?

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So you can see very simply how forgiveness

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is the process of untethering yourself from the situation.

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Right?

245
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So it's not a feeling, it's a choice.

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There is a forgiveness template that's in the book

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and that template is designed to just process a prayer.

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Now that forgiveness template was given to us

249
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and was shared to us by a man who is an insurance owner.

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He owns an insurance company in Alaska of all places

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and he had environmental disease and he got healed

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of environmental disease literally

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by processing forgiveness.

254
00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:36.000
No hype, no music, no demonstrative dramatic,

255
00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:38.280
oh, encounter or anything,

256
00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:40.920
literally processing forgiveness.

257
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And he now runs a wellness clinic

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where people call in over the phone

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because for crying out loud, he's in Alaska.

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I mean, who goes to Alaska for counseling?

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You just call in.

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And so they have a call center

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and they process people forgiveness mechanically

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and they have statistics that say for every person

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that has this kind of work of the flesh

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or has this kind of manifestation of sickness in their body,

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when they do this kind of forgiveness

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and they process it this way,

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so many percentage of them get healed in their body.

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Like amazing.

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This is the template that was given to us by this man.

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And it is the process of just simply releasing

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just in rote, not by trying to feel it,

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not trying to just do it,

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but just simply doing it because it's necessary,

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because it's good, because it's scriptural

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and because it's something that is part of the process.

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It's the closure part of it, right?

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And so this is kind of like the revelation

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that I wanna give you in terms of what forgiveness is

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and why it's important.

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And the other thing is,

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is that it does come in layers, guys.

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What did Jesus say about forgiveness?

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More specifically, what did Jesus say

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about the number of times that forgiveness is necessary?

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70 times seven.

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70 times seven is what his answer was.

289
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Should I give my, and the guy was asking the question,

290
00:18:32.040 --> 00:18:35.800
he was like, should I forgive him seven times?

291
00:18:35.800 --> 00:18:39.040
No, you should forgive him 70 times seven.

292
00:18:39.040 --> 00:18:40.080
What?

293
00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:41.880
What do you mean 70 times seven?

294
00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:43.880
Now, if you do the math, right?

295
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.800
We do, that's very easy, it's 490.

296
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So if you wanna put a number on it,

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I guess, according to scripture,

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if you forgive 490 times, then you're done forgiving.

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Now, does it take that long?

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I don't know, maybe sometimes it does,

301
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:02.840
sometimes it doesn't.

302
00:19:02.840 --> 00:19:04.280
But if you wanna put a number on it,

303
00:19:04.280 --> 00:19:06.760
you do it 490 times and then you're done.

304
00:19:06.760 --> 00:19:09.000
You don't have to forgive anymore after that.

305
00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:14.960
And I had a man, it was a businessman,

306
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:16.840
and that was a revelation to him,

307
00:19:16.840 --> 00:19:19.720
the 490, the seven times 70.

308
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:24.040
He says, because I'm a really good grudge holder,

309
00:19:24.040 --> 00:19:25.840
this guy was, this is his testimony.

310
00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:27.960
He goes, I'm a businessman.

311
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.080
And he worked for the big ministry

312
00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:31.760
that I had worked with for a long time.

313
00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:34.720
He was the chief operations officer.

314
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:36.040
So this guy was all business.

315
00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:38.000
I mean, you had to remind him

316
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.560
that he was doing ministry work

317
00:19:39.560 --> 00:19:42.200
in order to like do the thing, right?

318
00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.000
And hey, you remember this is a church, right?

319
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.920
You know, like yeah, whatever.

320
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.400
And so he was operations, he was business, he was numbers.

321
00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:52.400
Man, he could get stuff done like amazing.

322
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.040
This guy was a really brilliant businessman.

323
00:19:56.040 --> 00:20:01.040
And he told me some things sometimes.

324
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.000
and I'll tell you this next thing. But he said, you know, that scripture came to me because

325
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:09.040
he goes, I've had a lot of forgiveness to process to people that have stolen from me,

326
00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:13.840
been wrong to me, family members, all kinds of things. And he said, and I just decided that it

327
00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:20.480
was going to be 490 times. He says, and I've literally counted on times. He goes, you know

328
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:28.160
what? I've never gotten to 490. Somewhere along the way, forgiveness happened and it was processed

329
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:34.800
and it was good and it was released. So, you know, the principle holds true.

330
00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:42.960
And, um, the other thing is he told me, he said, um, when I was having a, like a mentoring session

331
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.720
with him and I was telling him some things I was going through and I was young at the time. I was,

332
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:56.560
I think I was younger than 30. And, um, he just stopped me in the mid sentence,

333
00:20:56.560 --> 00:21:00.400
just me going on and on and on and on and on about my life's problems and what I had questions

334
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.400
about and what I was concerned or worried about and so forth. He said, Hey, he said, just hold

335
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:10.560
on a second. I said, he said, if you ever failed before and I'm like, well, yeah, of course I've

336
00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:17.280
failed before. He goes, no. I mean, have you ever like failed? Like just miserably fail,

337
00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:22.880
hang your head in shame, walking, you know, the dog doesn't even want to look at you. You're such

338
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:30.160
a failure type thing, you know? And I go, ah, I don't know that I've ever done that. And I,

339
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.720
and I'm thinking, and I don't ever want to do that because that's terrible. I mean, who wants

340
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:40.480
to like, nobody wants to do that. And essentially he said to me, he's like, yeah, he says, well,

341
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:48.320
he says, experience that basically go fail and then come back and talk to me.

342
00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:55.840
And, um, it was just in a few short years that I actually, from beyond that point that I actually

343
00:21:55.840 --> 00:22:02.720
went through divorce and failed in my family. And it wasn't because of that conversation,

344
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.120
but that conversation came to back to me and it made a lot more sense to me. It's,

345
00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:11.920
I was like, Oh wow. And he told me, he proceeded to tell me how he had lost his fortune twice

346
00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:19.200
twice. And he had to get it all back twice because of business and family and different things.

347
00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:25.360
And it's not until you experience some failure in life, lots of times that you really start

348
00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:32.320
understanding like, ah, man, there's some really, um, important lessons and you can start talking

349
00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:39.920
to other people about, um, some real things about what's happening, where to go, what to do,

350
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:46.480
not to take things so heavily. So sometimes that, that, that the things that are really

351
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:52.480
of record and really important, those are the things to pay attention to, right? Not the,

352
00:22:53.040 --> 00:23:00.640
not the small things that don't seemingly add up to so much. And, um, I don't know why I shared

353
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:07.200
that with you, but, um, I just thought it was really important to share the 70 times seven

354
00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:13.680
70 times seven story, because there is a limit and typically you won't pass that limit,

355
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:22.160
especially if you're keeping track. So how do we know that we have truly forgiven or been forgiven

356
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.080
in a situation? Anybody want to take a stab at that? How do we truly know that forgiveness has

357
00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:45.760
been processed? I think, um, uh, first, um, I don't know. I mean, I'm not convinced that 490

358
00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:50.640
times is the limit. Like I would, I'm imagining Peter had said like, how many times should I

359
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:57.440
forgive 490 that Jesus might've said 490 times 490,000, you know, because I know God's forgiven.

360
00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:04.640
490 times. Yeah, sure. Um, that's true, but your point is still well, you know, well taken. Um,

361
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:13.360
but, um, I think, um, I I've been pretty shocked doing the hard work. It was, it was so helpful

362
00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:19.120
to hear that if there's something that kind of keeps coming to mind, like, or if there's something

363
00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:24.560
that kind of, um, is, is continually present, that that can be a good, a good sign. And I,

364
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:30.720
I, I I've told lots of people and lots of people have told me that forgiving is not forgetting.

365
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:37.840
And I, I understand that that's true, but I've been amazed at how in doing this work,

366
00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:44.080
I've actually just forgotten about a lot of stuff. Like I was just trying to remember like, okay,

367
00:24:44.080 --> 00:24:49.120
what, when I did week four, like, what were the examples of things I ever gave people for? And I

368
00:24:49.120 --> 00:24:54.800
was having a really hard time remembering, which was really shocking to me. So I'm really, really,

369
00:24:55.840 --> 00:24:59.760
and I think that, that for me, I've tried to,

370
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.340
I tried to forgive certain people so many times for things.

371
00:25:03.340 --> 00:25:05.540
And I think that this chapter specifically

372
00:25:05.540 --> 00:25:09.980
really helped me understand that if it kind of keeps

373
00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:12.100
coming back, that I need to look more at it.

374
00:25:12.100 --> 00:25:14.340
And I think I was able, instead of saying,

375
00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:17.020
oh, I forgive this person for this action,

376
00:25:17.020 --> 00:25:19.700
to actually calculate that cost, like you said,

377
00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:24.340
and to think through, okay, so if I, you know,

378
00:25:24.340 --> 00:25:26.740
what is it about that action that hurt

379
00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:28.380
and what was the cost to me?

380
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.800
Like, did it cause me to feel worthless?

381
00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:35.840
Like, you know, did it, did I feel like

382
00:25:35.840 --> 00:25:38.640
it took something away from me that I should have had?

383
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:43.240
You know, and so I was really, really surprised

384
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.280
at how helpful, incredibly helpful it was.

385
00:25:47.780 --> 00:25:50.240
Yeah, as we talk about that, that, you know,

386
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.400
forgiveness as it, you know,

387
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.280
because it does happen in layers sometimes,

388
00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:00.880
typically when, what we say is that

389
00:26:01.080 --> 00:26:03.840
if there's any sort of pain point

390
00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:06.740
associated with a situation, a person,

391
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.360
a particular thing that we're dealing with

392
00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:12.720
in the area of needing forgiveness,

393
00:26:14.340 --> 00:26:18.320
any type of tinge or pain or just profound,

394
00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:22.600
overwhelming, you know, emotion is just an indicator.

395
00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:24.200
Like pain is an indicator,

396
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:25.840
just like a cut on your finger is,

397
00:26:25.840 --> 00:26:27.960
it's like, hey, this needs attention, you know,

398
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:31.040
or else it's gonna be infected or bleed out or whatever.

399
00:26:31.040 --> 00:26:33.800
So pain is just an indicator, it's all it is.

400
00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:37.840
And so what we say is that however, whatever the pain is,

401
00:26:37.840 --> 00:26:40.700
that there's another facet to deal with that.

402
00:26:40.700 --> 00:26:42.120
And it's not that it's incomplete

403
00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:43.720
or it's not that it's wrong or bad

404
00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:45.360
because it's like, oh, I didn't do it right

405
00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:47.600
or I didn't do it fully or whatever it is.

406
00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:48.920
It's not about that at all.

407
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.100
It's just that because it happens in layers,

408
00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:53.640
sometimes that's what happens

409
00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:56.360
is that you might have a tinge or a pain or a thought,

410
00:26:56.360 --> 00:26:59.120
you're like, ooh, yeah, that made me feel like,

411
00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:00.560
I felt that, you know?

412
00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:03.480
So this is why it's beautiful with the heart work

413
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.480
is that you just take your forgiveness template out

414
00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:11.180
or maybe you've memorized it or whatever the pattern,

415
00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:15.240
and you just process it without feeling.

416
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.480
You process it just because it's just a process.

417
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:18.320
It's a choice.

418
00:27:18.320 --> 00:27:21.280
You're making a choice of your own volition to go,

419
00:27:21.280 --> 00:27:22.240
you know what?

420
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:23.080
I felt that pain.

421
00:27:23.080 --> 00:27:24.000
I felt it.

422
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:25.000
It's revealing something.

423
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:25.840
I don't know what it is.

424
00:27:25.840 --> 00:27:27.320
I'm just gonna process it.

425
00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:29.440
And because at the end of the prayer,

426
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.240
the last step is to ask Holy Spirit,

427
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:35.200
what is the truth about this situation?

428
00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:38.160
And so then there's the revealing of like,

429
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.860
now that I processed the forgiveness and processed it,

430
00:27:40.860 --> 00:27:43.720
now I'm gonna understand some things about the situation,

431
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.980
the other person, myself, whatever it is

432
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:49.360
that needs to be realized, understood.

433
00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:52.760
And this is why the forgetting sometimes happens

434
00:27:52.760 --> 00:27:55.720
because what happens when you know

435
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.680
that you've truly forgiven is when the other person,

436
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:02.800
for instance, if it's like an offensive situation

437
00:28:02.800 --> 00:28:04.720
or somebody has done something to you,

438
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.820
you don't longer associate them with that act.

439
00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:12.420
You no longer associate them with that situation

440
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.640
because you've released and forgiven them.

441
00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:18.320
Now you may say, well, geez,

442
00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:21.600
somebody does heinous things to another person.

443
00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:23.520
How could that person ever forget that?

444
00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:27.440
How could that person ever not associate that person

445
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:30.080
with that action or whatever?

446
00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:32.000
I'm not saying that you have to like

447
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.880
be best friends with that person.

448
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:36.080
I'm not saying that, you know,

449
00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:39.000
you need to have a relationship with that person,

450
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.640
but there is a spiritual process of the disconnecting

451
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.560
and the forgetting that you don't associate

452
00:28:47.560 --> 00:28:49.440
that previous person with that action.

453
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.980
You see them differently.

454
00:28:52.120 --> 00:28:56.440
You see them as maybe even a victim of their own situation

455
00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.440
and why they did what they did.

456
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.520
You see them in their own humanity.

457
00:29:00.520 --> 00:29:02.920
You see them as a child of God.

458
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:07.400
You see them as something else than what they were to you

459
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:09.500
at one particular moment.

460
00:29:10.340 --> 00:29:14.900
Your perspective changes on what really happened

461
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:19.660
other than just, hey, this bad thing happened to me.

462
00:29:19.660 --> 00:29:21.700
So that's how you know forgiveness is working

463
00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:23.540
or that it's complete,

464
00:29:23.540 --> 00:29:25.580
is when you are no longer the victim

465
00:29:25.580 --> 00:29:28.620
and they are no longer the abuser.

466
00:29:30.380 --> 00:29:31.820
Or maybe you were the abuser.

467
00:29:33.300 --> 00:29:34.980
Maybe you were the guilty party.

468
00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:37.140
Maybe you were the person.

469
00:29:38.140 --> 00:29:43.140
I had to go back to my ex-wife and my situation,

470
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:47.820
I was in the midst of ministry.

471
00:29:47.820 --> 00:29:49.820
My wife was the lower school principal

472
00:29:49.820 --> 00:29:52.100
of the church we were working in

473
00:29:52.100 --> 00:29:57.100
and she wanted a divorce and I didn't understand why.

474
00:29:57.940 --> 00:29:59.540
And she wrote me the list of things why.

475
00:29:59.540 --> 00:30:00.380
She literally.

476
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:06.040
wrote a list. And, um, and I still didn't really get why we

477
00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:11.680
were getting divorced. And, uh, but we got divorced because it

478
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.680
was inevitable. And, uh, on paper, if you line up the pros

479
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.840
and cons and who did what and all that kind of stuff, I looked

480
00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:23.500
like the good guy and she looked like the bad guy. She did, you

481
00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:25.840
know, what she wasn't supposed to do. And in the context of

482
00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:28.880
what we were living in and what we were doing at the time, it

483
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:34.920
was even, uh, scandalous, but it wasn't really a scandal. It

484
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.840
wasn't really like a salacious story. I mean, if I told you

485
00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:43.040
the details, you'd be like, uh, uh, okay. So it wasn't

486
00:30:43.040 --> 00:30:46.120
salacious, but it was just, you know, like, oh, that's, you

487
00:30:46.120 --> 00:30:50.960
know, we don't, we don't have that here. Uh, but it wasn't, I

488
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.840
wasn't the non-guilty party though. After I processed what

489
00:30:54.840 --> 00:31:01.600
had happened in my family, I had failed simply the fact that

490
00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:06.600
we're not married anymore. Doesn't matter what you put down

491
00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:08.960
on paper, like, well, who did that? Blah, blah, blah, blah.

492
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:14.920
It was a failure. And it was my responsibility, especially as

493
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:20.120
the supposed initiator, instigator or initiator of

494
00:31:20.120 --> 00:31:23.920
spirituality in my home as the head quote of my household, as

495
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.680
the leader of my household, I failed and I had to come to

496
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.160
terms with that. And I had to apologize and repent that I

497
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:38.240
failed my ex-wife, even though she was the one that left, you

498
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.720
know? And, uh, we had a moment of reconciliation, not, not

499
00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:47.160
towards marriage, but just in our personhood, our, our

500
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.120
believers in Christ as, as believers in the Lord, we had a

501
00:31:52.120 --> 00:31:57.920
moment to be able to process that years ago in our life. And

502
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.440
it was important. And there, and if there was something that

503
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:06.200
needed to happen, even today, um, I'd be willing to do it and

504
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.520
go there and talk about it because it's just that

505
00:32:09.520 --> 00:32:12.760
important to do that. And, you know, I've not been married to

506
00:32:12.760 --> 00:32:20.560
her for 18 years. It's been a long time. So it's a process

507
00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:26.520
guys. Forgiveness is, um, um, I guess, like I said, the closure

508
00:32:27.320 --> 00:32:33.280
of this process. And the next part is, um, really stepping

509
00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:39.720
into the real you, because what happens in, um, when we're

510
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.000
dealing with lies and we're believing with lies, so back in

511
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:48.360
week two, when we live our lives from a position of unworthiness

512
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.840
and our behavior is a precipitation of the lies that

513
00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:55.800
we're believing about ourselves, others, and God. And we're,

514
00:32:55.800 --> 00:32:58.680
we're, we're living that way. We're not living our authentic

515
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.440
selves. Actually, we talk about the heart. We talk about the

516
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:08.320
deception of the heart. When the heart is, um, when the inside

517
00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:12.840
of you, the truth, your true self is believing lies, your

518
00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:17.240
heart then is deceiving you. So your own self is literally

519
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.640
lying back to you saying, yeah, that's right. You know, you

520
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:23.720
should feel, um, justified to do this and you should feel bad

521
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.760
about that. And you should feel empowered to go and do wrong

522
00:33:26.760 --> 00:33:32.000
things and justify whatever. Right. So your, your heart

523
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.080
literally echoes back to you, the lies that you're believing

524
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.520
and then begins to like lead your, so your life becomes being

525
00:33:41.520 --> 00:33:46.400
led by somebody that's, that's, that's not you. So it creates a

526
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.880
counterfeit you that is then leading and living your life and

527
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:56.000
making decisions for you. Right? So that, so you have literally

528
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.200
have this person that's impersonating you that's

529
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:04.920
believing lies. It's on the inside of you. That is a wrong

530
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:09.239
identity. Once you go through the heart work and you undo the

531
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.239
lies, you do the repentance, confession, forgiveness, then

532
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:17.040
you have an opportunity to then begin living the real and

533
00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:23.040
authentic you in Christ, who you really are. And that's what

534
00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:28.719
we'll talk about next time, um, in heart work. So there's so

535
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:32.159
much, I mean, we only have an hour guys and, and, um, there's

536
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.320
so much to unpack. There's so much to, to go on and on and on

537
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.760
about, but we kind of have to keep things moving because

538
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.320
that's kind of like what these, these heart check ins are for,

539
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.560
but there's, it's an opportunity for you guys to

540
00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:46.440
process some things. And I'm, I'm so glad that you guys shared

541
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.120
tonight. Um, it was great hearing from you because, um,

542
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:55.040
that's a lot of what this is, um, about. It's really just

543
00:34:55.040 --> 00:34:59.000
kind of an opportunity to share and talk about your processing

544
00:34:59.040 --> 00:34:59.920
of this, of the heart.

545
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:10.480
So, Rob, I would imagine, are you new to the heart work process in general?

546
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:11.480
To the curriculum?

547
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:12.480
Yeah.

548
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.480
Starting in January.

549
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.720
I'm like, if I look at the bar chart, I think I'm halfway through, but I haven't picked

550
00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:18.640
it up in about 30 days, so.

551
00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:19.640
Okay.

552
00:35:19.640 --> 00:35:20.640
All right.

553
00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:21.640
Yeah.

554
00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:22.640
That's great.

555
00:35:22.640 --> 00:35:23.640
That's great.

556
00:35:23.640 --> 00:35:24.640
Well, it's great meeting you and great seeing you for the first time here.

557
00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:25.640
It's awesome.

558
00:35:25.640 --> 00:35:26.640
Yeah.

559
00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.640
I'm glad you were able to check in with us.

560
00:35:27.640 --> 00:35:28.640
Thanks for sharing tonight.

561
00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:29.640
Yeah.

562
00:35:29.640 --> 00:35:33.600
It was just going to say, great to meet these guys, too, after seeing some of you on video

563
00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:34.600
different times.

564
00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:35.600
Yeah.

565
00:35:35.600 --> 00:35:36.600
Nice to meet you, Rob.

566
00:35:36.600 --> 00:35:37.600
Yeah.

567
00:35:37.600 --> 00:35:45.680
Yeah, James and Joshua and Thomas, thank you guys for being here, too.

568
00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:47.320
Thank you for sharing.

569
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:55.400
And if you have any questions, guys, reach out on the chat that's in the Facebook.

570
00:35:55.400 --> 00:36:02.120
There's a general chat in the men's group that you can always participate in.

571
00:36:02.120 --> 00:36:08.440
Once we come out, the app is being developed and our phase three people are going to be

572
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:14.100
joining it this week, so they'll be doing some more testing and ironing out some bugs.

573
00:36:14.100 --> 00:36:18.920
We got a lot of bugs worked out, and so that should be a little bit easier for us to communicate

574
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:25.000
because the point of the app wasn't necessarily that the app is this great thing.

575
00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:31.640
It's just the centralizing of our content and centralizing of our communication and

576
00:36:31.640 --> 00:36:37.320
some of the connection points, like the meeting points, instead of it being in five or six

577
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.880
different private Facebook groups and being all over the place and being on a platform

578
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.880
over here.

579
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:46.960
The app is intended to try to centralize a lot of our content and bring it together so

580
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:54.400
we can just be a little bit more smooth with our either updating or announcing, posting

581
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.560
content, and so forth, all right?

582
00:36:58.560 --> 00:36:59.560
So God bless, guys.

583
00:36:59.560 --> 00:37:02.760
8.02, we're going to stop here.

584
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:09.360
And if you want to process some forgiveness and want to just process with the group, feel

585
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.360
free to do that.

586
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:13.960
You can post in there and say, hey, this is something that came to mind.

587
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:17.760
This is something I'm going to release in forgiveness, just sharing it out there.

588
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:18.840
Maybe it helps somebody else.

589
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:23.480
Maybe it's a part of your confession, whatever.

590
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:29.280
So it's all good to be able to do that and encourage you to participate in the group

591
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.280
and chat.

592
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:31.280
Hey, man?

593
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:33.920
Thanks for leading us, David.

594
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:34.920
Yeah.

595
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:35.920
God bless you guys.

596
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:39.720
Have a great week, and we will see you next Monday.

597
00:37:39.720 --> 00:37:40.720
See you guys.

598
00:37:40.720 --> 00:37:41.720
All right.

599
00:37:41.720 --> 00:37:41.720