WEBVTT

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Gentlemen, how are you?

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You can hear it.

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I think you can hear me.

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Yeah, we can.

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I saw I was on mute.

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Hey, David, how are you?

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We can hear you as well.

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What was that?

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I just said, hey.

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Hey, hey.

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How are you guys doing tonight?

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I have my Central Machine Works hat on tonight.

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That is a, I think it's like an old

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building that used to have like a shop or like a factory or some sort of in it.

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It's not really big, but now it's a brewery.

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And so they have like inside and outside seating, like a picnic tables.

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It's kind of a cool little place here in Austin.

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Like dozens and dozens and dozens of places just like that.

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And then, yeah.

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So we ate there Sunday and had food and it's really good.

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They have good pizza, hamburgers and stuff.

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And so it's kind of cool.

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Anyway, do you live in Austin, David?

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I live in Austin.

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I don't live in Austin proper, but I do live in the Austin area.

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I live a little town north of Austin.

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Yeah.

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How wonderful.

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Yeah.

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So we've been here for about seven years.

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We enjoy Austin.

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It's hot, but I can't complain about that because I moved away from Columbus, Ohio,

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Midwest, which I love.

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I love Columbus.

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I love Ohio.

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Grew up there, but it's got winter and it has snow and you have to shovel your driveway

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and I don't like that.

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I didn't want to do that anymore.

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I didn't want to do that anymore.

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And it can get like single digits.

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It can get really crazy.

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Weather's just, I don't know, so unpredictable now these days.

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Who knows even what is going to happen.

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But anyway, I got down here and I was like, look, I can't complain about cold and heat.

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You got to pick one or the other.

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Like you got to like, like cold and hate heat or whatever, you know, can't come down the

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hot and then start complaining about being hot.

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You just move from cold.

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What is it?

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So I have chosen to be okay with sweating.

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You know what?

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So we manage it well down here.

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Abram, what's the password like for the Zoom meetings?

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Uh, do you feel like I'm trying to, uh, I prefer to go on Skype.

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I'm trying to zoom on my computer.

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Oh, so you like put in, put it in manually, like to access the, yeah.

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And I'm so, I'm so, um, not familiar with the software here.

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I know it's a reoccurring meeting.

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It's probably a way to save and stuff or whatever, but yeah, you can like even put the link.

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I mean, the link that we usually share, I think, how do you know, how do you get the

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link right now from Facebook?

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Well, normally, yeah.

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Facebook would have all the information.

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I just copy paste, copy, paste, and then join.

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But the Facebook pages is changed.

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None of that information, none of those links are there anymore.

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And it just said, I think on there through the app on my phone.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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Which that worked for you pretty good.

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What part on the phone?

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Just the linking out from the app.

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Oh yeah.

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That was super, that was super simple.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's great.

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I just don't want to hold my phone.

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That's good because there's several people that were having problems with that, but, um,

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but I think it's just more of a user error on that end of it because, um, the linking

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out from the app has actually been working pretty good across the board.

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So I just, I'm always asking about that now just to make sure.

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Yeah.

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Thomas, that's the, that's the password 377-977.

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Okay.

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Thank you very much.

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And so, yes, go ahead.

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Uh, so the, um, but it's just good.

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Yeah.

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If you guys have any like technical issues, definitely mention them on this call because,

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um, I, I definitely want to go in there and fix stuff every now and then when we've got

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it.

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So, um, of course we have like the feedback system and there's like a, it's like a Google.

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Um, uh, doc or Google forms thing that we have in there to like give feedback on the,

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on the app, but appreciate any feedback you guys have because a lot of tech guys on here

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and I appreciate any help we can get.

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Our, our, our system, our business is kind of a simple business, but it's surprisingly

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can get surprisingly complicated in terms of the technology that we could, you know,

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technology that we could just to deliver it.

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And then on top of that, developing technology.

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That's actually really slick and cool and like does really neat things. So I mean you get really really complicated really quick

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as I'm sure you all

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Know and understand and can appreciate

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So, uh, thanks guys for being here I love seeing y'all we're getting used to this

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Every Monday night. It's really great. I'm enjoying I'm enjoying the camaraderie. I'm enjoying the the banter and the going back and forth. Um, I

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Just want to pray for us father God, we just thank you right now Lord for each one of these men

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You thank you right now and just bless and appreciate

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each of them and their their own uniqueness their sonship and

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Where they're at the process and the position in life where they're at and the process that they're going through

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Just working out their own salvation before you and through you and with you

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so I just thank you for that and we just invite you Holy Spirit onto this time together in this call and

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just let us be led and

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orchestrated and inspired and lifted up

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Because of you in Jesus name. Amen. Amen

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Anything you guys want to talk about tonight? I've got something that I was

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Wanted to to work through a little bit

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But anything on anybody's heart mind like hey

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I've been thinking about this or I have a question about that or like to kind of

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Bring this up as a topic of discussion anything

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Right now that's on on your mind

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want to open that up a little bit we can sort of take a vote or

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If it's not a topic that's like exciting we'd be like, yeah, no, I don't want to talk about that

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We're talking about something else. So what I can't I

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Got one that like envious because I envy people who who get to get to be in a marriage or a ship

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But I sometimes

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Can be him so much. I really want to crush them

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But because I'm falling behind and I want the same opportunities everybody

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So everything is the only thing that prevents me to not envy is that think about the blessings I have

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Yeah, I like it when people rejoice when I got so if I did try I should try doing that to someone else

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Got it. Got it. Envy. Okay

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Envy

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Okay, I wasn't sure is envy or the violence behind envy because I heard the word crap

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I heard the word I want to did I hear you sound like crush them sometimes?

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Okay

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I'm not going to I know I know it's illegal and and rightfully so

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it's just I always try to compare my life to others because I want success and I really

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Cuz I how bad things were in school and I set out to make my life great

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Of course a little my mom is already proud of me, especially with what I'm doing

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Well hunter I met you in person several times

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And so I know maybe maybe you just meant that and you were a little heavy-handed with the whole crushing thing

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but so we have grace and and

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For you on that. Um, yeah, so we talked about that

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anything else

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guys

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Suggestion David. Uh, is there a way to increase your volume a little bit? Oh, yeah. I sure I guess

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I

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Think I

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Appreciate you bringing up Envy Hunter. I think that's probably something all of us have experienced and I

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Appreciate your honesty about about those feelings I think

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One other thing I've been wondering about

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And I understand there might be books on this topic or whatever else, but I know Jackie's kind of talked a lot about

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Attachment theory recently and

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Months and so I I think

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If there's specific wisdom whether from you David or from the group about

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You know for those of us who have done the work of like testing and finding out our attachment style

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Steps for us to be able to move towards kind of a healthy attachment style

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Could maybe be a point

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Definitely we can talk about that. I I will admit I am NOT up to speed on our

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attachment theory

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topic within our group

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Because believe it or not

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Jackie and I don't sit around talk about this all the time

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But sometimes we do so surprisingly, I know a lot more than maybe what I probably

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You know should but that is a subject area I've not delved deeply into and I've heard

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Incursory like being around her talking about that. Of course, I know that's some of the stuff that we're putting together

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so definitely we can get into that for sure, but

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It's been talked about a lot in terms of especially around our household

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Avoiding attachment avoiding and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, we definitely get it get into some of that

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we

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You can even talk about it tonight if you'd like to.

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And just in theory, again, I don't

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have a lot of teaching that I've done studying up

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on that particular topic.

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But we can definitely talk about it

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if you want to comment on it, want to ask any questions.

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To me, not right now, but I'll definitely get into it.

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We'll get into some.

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I'm pretty familiar with attack necessary and all that stuff.

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I've done a lot of research on it.

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Good, Mike.

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Me too.

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Me too as well if you want to share with me.

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We want to share with each other.

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Absolutely.

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One of the things that I wanted to do,

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and I'll bring this up, well, so first and foremost, Thomas,

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you brought this topic up to us.

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What is your question or comment about it

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succinctly that you would like to address?

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Do you have questions about it, or do you

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have thoughts that you have like, hey,

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this might be what I'm dealing with or whatever?

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Yeah, thanks.

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What a thoughtful question.

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I think in addition to continuing

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to want to honor what Hunter said,

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this week on the dating resume call,

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I had put something that I felt like God had communicated

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to me that it's important that my heart says yes

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to the person that I'm with.

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And Jackie said, I want to raise a yellow flag with that

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if you're dealing with avoidant.

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So for me, after taking some multiple quizzes and things

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along those lines, I've pretty regularly come out

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as disorganized in my attachment.

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So I think the specific question that I have been processing

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through myself is, what does it look

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like to be able to look for either red or yellow flags

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in terms of being in relationship

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and learning how to choose to take steps

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towards a healthier attachment style?

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So I'm more than happy to get some of Dan Siegel's books

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and read about it.

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Or the book Attached, I know, is very popular right now,

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things along those lines.

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So very happy to do that research.

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But it was something that had come up recently.

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And since you had asked if there were things

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we were thinking about, that's something.

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This week, I ended something with someone.

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And I had to do a lot of thinking

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after Jackie said that about, is this a healthy letting go?

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Or is this an unhealthy letting go?

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You had just recently released a connection

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of relationships of some sort.

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I did.

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I did end a level two relationship on Saturday.

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Oh, OK.

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Got it.

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What was the reasoning for the releasing of the relationship?

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You felt like this wasn't a relationship for now,

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or there wasn't a compatibility?

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So I think it brings up really interesting questions

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about, when we talk about spiritual, emotional,

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physical, intellectual compatibility,

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what exactly are we looking for, how similar, how different?

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I felt like there was some amount

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of spiritual compatibility.

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This is someone who's less charismatic than I would be,

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less focused on the Holy Spirit and prophecy

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and that kind of stuff, but more deeply

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into spiritual formation concepts and things

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along those lines.

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So when I asked about, oh, what are your experiences

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with the Spirit of God?

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She really said, oh, well, everything comes from emotion,

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and so took it more into my understanding

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the realms of the soul.

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So there was some of that, which I was kind of like, well,

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people can grow in that area.

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And then I would say there was a lack of physical attraction,

251
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.240
which I would say raises more flags for me

252
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.400
in terms of attachment style.

253
00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:39.000
I think intellectually, I think we were a pretty decent fit.

254
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.400
Emotionally, it seemed like we were a decent fit.

255
00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:44.520
It seemed like to me that spiritually and physically,

256
00:14:44.520 --> 00:14:46.760
that was where it didn't really seem to,

257
00:14:46.760 --> 00:14:51.520
where I felt like my heart was kind of like saying no.

258
00:14:51.520 --> 00:14:52.360
Yeah.

259
00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.600
Does that answer your question?

260
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.160
Yeah, Rob or Mike, do you have any comments that come up

261
00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:01.240
in terms of like, especially?

262
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.520
is in terms of like, Thomas's original question. Like, what

263
00:15:03.520 --> 00:15:04.200
is something?

264
00:15:05.160 --> 00:15:09.840
So, typically, so it sounds like, Thomas, you have a pretty

265
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.200
good look at it. Avoidant usually they look for, they

266
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.320
start nitpicking things. They like finding ways to eject,

267
00:15:17.400 --> 00:15:22.760
right. So like, they'll be like, you know, and because, because

268
00:15:22.760 --> 00:15:25.600
love has been scary to them. Right. So, you know, whenever

269
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.640
they've been loved, it's, it's blown up. And so they start

270
00:15:28.640 --> 00:15:31.120
feeling loved. And they're like, Oh, no, this is gonna blow up.

271
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.880
So I need to find a way out. So Thomas, I don't see you doing

272
00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:39.080
that. Right? I see you actually going, okay, we're not fully

273
00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.040
equally yoked. So that's, you know, if you were like, you

274
00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:47.640
know, that's legitimate. That's legitimate concern, not being

275
00:15:47.640 --> 00:15:50.320
able to share the Holy Spirit and walk in the same way. I

276
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.000
mean, can people grow? Yeah. But you really don't want to

277
00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:59.400
presuppose that, then, and you're, Thomas, I don't know, I

278
00:15:59.400 --> 00:16:02.160
think you're a fairly secure dude. You know, in a lot of your

279
00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:05.880
ways. I mean, I'm not, I'm not watching your, you know, I'm not

280
00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:12.680
in your relationships. But um, yeah, I think avoidance just

281
00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:21.640
tends to cerebralize it. If that's a word. You know,

282
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:27.960
intellectually. Yeah, it's analysis paralysis, but it's,

283
00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:33.000
it's for the purpose of leaving. Right? Not for

284
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.520
discerning. Objectively. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's kind

285
00:16:38.520 --> 00:16:39.920
of how the avoidant goes. Right?

286
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.320
Yeah, I'm curious, Thomas, since you thanks for giving, putting

287
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.200
yourself out there as an example. But I, since you know

288
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.320
that you're disorganized attachment style, like you,

289
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.000
sounds like you've done some work, which would tell me that

290
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:58.600
you know what maybe some of those triggers are. As you take

291
00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.960
a step back, I guess it's only been a couple days. But do you

292
00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:04.880
feel like any of those disorganized triggers were

293
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.440
present as you evaluated the decision?

294
00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:13.400
You know, I haven't seen as much information about the

295
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.440
disorganized style, because I know it's it's what about 10% of

296
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:22.800
the population, I think. So I think that with the I've seen

297
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.079
like in the book attached, it seemed like it talked a lot

298
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:28.359
about avoidance and a lot about anxious, but it didn't really

299
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.720
seem like there was very much about disorganized. So I'm not

300
00:17:31.800 --> 00:17:34.840
as aware of kind of the particular triggers, unless you

301
00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:38.280
say, Oh, well, it's just a combination of both, which I

302
00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:45.720
think I've heard some people say. So I think that for me, one

303
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:50.800
of the one of the one thing that maybe might be considered a

304
00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:57.440
trigger might be that I was concerned that I was kind of

305
00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:04.960
like making excuses for like, kind of like you were you were

306
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.640
saying, Mike, I think I have in the past kind of been nitpicky.

307
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:13.000
And so this time, I think we went out around six times over

308
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.760
about seven weeks. So it's in you know, we did different

309
00:18:16.760 --> 00:18:20.040
things. We did an escape room together, we like did some other

310
00:18:20.080 --> 00:18:24.080
kinds of stuff, like both activity and kind of sitting and

311
00:18:24.080 --> 00:18:28.000
like eating and that kind of thing. We toured a house like an

312
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.080
architectural house together, which was really fun. That's

313
00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:37.440
cool. I didn't also just kind of like, didn't seem to enjoy

314
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.000
sharing time with her. So I'm not sure. But then then that

315
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.320
kind of triggers the question of like, Oh, well, but that is

316
00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:48.440
that because I'm unhealthy, you know, or is it because, you

317
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.240
know, because I'm being healthy and paying attention to how I'm

318
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:57.680
feeling. And ultimately, it felt and I stayed up really late,

319
00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.320
which I think was also kind of another trigger is symbol of

320
00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.760
anxiety was being just really kind of concerned about whether

321
00:19:03.760 --> 00:19:06.080
I was kind of doing this healthfully or not healthfully.

322
00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:12.320
But ultimately, it kind of felt like it felt best to let go. I

323
00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:16.720
think one other thing that I was really concerned about was that

324
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:22.200
this was a connection through a married friend. And I really

325
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:27.040
didn't want to let that married friend down by ending it. And I

326
00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:30.000
think that's not the best reason to stay in a relationship

327
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:36.000
either. So that I don't know, I think that was also something

328
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.320
that I felt pretty anxious about.

329
00:19:38.120 --> 00:19:44.760
Wow. Amazing. Go ahead, James. No seven days. It sounds pretty

330
00:19:44.760 --> 00:19:50.800
painful. You're pretty resilient. You, you, you, you

331
00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:52.440
did all you could it sounds like

332
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:58.040
I pretty serious college tribe for sure. Seven, seven days, six

333
00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:59.480
days and seven days or whatever.

334
00:19:59.680 --> 00:19:59.920
Yeah.

335
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.880
That's like some cool dates, by the way. Shifting topics. Tell

336
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:08.400
us about how creative your dates are. No, I know. For me,

337
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.200
I'll just speak from my own experience. Because my, my

338
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.040
anxious, what I'm what I'll be paying attention to are those

339
00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:20.940
triggers. But then when I find myself acting out of my kind of

340
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:24.280
coming from my my natural attachment style, I find

341
00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:29.640
myself reacting as opposed to being making centered decisions,

342
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:36.000
centered, thoughtful, careful decisions, I find myself, you

343
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.480
know, the word reacting comes to mind, but acting out of some

344
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:46.400
form of that attachment style fear, you know, of losing

345
00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:51.520
anxiousness and neediness. For me, that's all shows up for me.

346
00:20:51.520 --> 00:20:57.120
And so as I think about, you know, that potential situation,

347
00:20:57.120 --> 00:21:01.040
which I'm not in a dating relationship, those are things

348
00:21:01.040 --> 00:21:04.360
I'll be looking for, am I acting? Am I thoughtfully

349
00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:08.600
intentionally acting? Or am I reacting? And if if you were to

350
00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:11.840
apply that, it sounds like to me, you put a lot of centered,

351
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.960
thoughtfulness around your decision, if that's helpful at

352
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:16.680
all. So

353
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.880
thanks. Yeah, I get the impression based on, you know,

354
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:25.000
how you described it, how you talked about what you were going

355
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.320
through and your thought process, I don't get the sense

356
00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:31.880
that you were being avoidant, just on the sheer being avoidant,

357
00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:37.240
because you were concerned or afraid or, or trying to, like,

358
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.880
you know, not connect, that seemed like you were being just

359
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.960
very evaluative. And I guess I think my next question is, is do

360
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:46.200
you get the sense that

361
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:53.520
um, the the, the girl that you're with that she felt the

362
00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:58.720
same? Like it wasn't mutual? Or was she? Was she disappointed?

363
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.840
Do you think? I mean, I don't know whether she said so or not.

364
00:22:00.840 --> 00:22:03.760
But do you think in and of yourself in terms of her

365
00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:06.960
reaction? Do you think it was like, Oh, yeah, this is probably

366
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.440
not?

367
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.080
I think that's also a good question. I think that we had a

368
00:22:14.080 --> 00:22:17.360
really good talk on Saturday. And I had been really strongly

369
00:22:17.360 --> 00:22:21.280
considering ending things the week before, and kind of brought

370
00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:23.600
up, hey, we've been seeing each other for like over a month now

371
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:28.520
just wanted to like check in. And I think her response to that

372
00:22:28.520 --> 00:22:34.880
conversation was really good and healthy. And she was like, Yeah,

373
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:40.920
you know, I'm enjoying like getting to know you and and we

374
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:45.480
had like she had been very avoidant of any kind of physical

375
00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:48.480
contact, which is pretty much fine. But she was like really

376
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.680
nervous that like me even kind of like kissing her on the cheek

377
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.480
was kind of like too much. Which is which is okay. You know, I

378
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:57.320
think different people have different kind of sensitivity

379
00:22:57.320 --> 00:23:01.800
levels for sure. That kind of thing. But then that night, we

380
00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:05.000
kind of sat in the park and I was like, like, you know, is

381
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.160
there anything so I told her like, I'm really kind of

382
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.160
processing and I'll be continuing to process. Is there

383
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.160
anything that you're processing? Or you'd like us to talk about?

384
00:23:14.560 --> 00:23:16.520
And she was like, Yeah, I've just been wondering, like, have

385
00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:19.520
you been married before? And like, so we had a good kind of

386
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.920
discussion about things she was interested in. And I was able to

387
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.520
ask some kind of deeper questions, which was helpful.

388
00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:31.400
And this was after you had told her or this was this was this

389
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:36.320
was last week. Because of that conversation, and it started to

390
00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:39.520
feel a little bit deeper. I was like, okay, well, I'm going to

391
00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:42.480
give this more time then because it doesn't feel like we're kind

392
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:47.080
of just kind of going along on in a little bit of a shallower

393
00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:51.880
way. Not that it has to be super deep, you know, after six or

394
00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:57.080
seven weeks, right. But then on the way back, she was like, Oh,

395
00:23:57.080 --> 00:24:01.280
would you like to hold my hand? And when I held her hand, I was

396
00:24:01.280 --> 00:24:04.800
like, this does this does not feel right. Like I've held hands

397
00:24:04.800 --> 00:24:06.800
with people when I'm like, this is really great. This is

398
00:24:06.800 --> 00:24:11.240
wonderful. And with her, I was like, No, like, no, I don't. I

399
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.680
don't feel like I want to be holding hands with you. So I

400
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.440
think that that was another thing to me where I was like,

401
00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:23.720
Yeah, well, is that, again, fear of connection? Or is that kind

402
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:28.720
of a healthy signal to me to be like, there's some there's lots

403
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.160
of parts of me that are saying no. And then so I thought about

404
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:35.320
it, and then continue to decide whether or not to give it more

405
00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:39.680
time. And then on Thursday, I decided, I've been studying

406
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:43.120
systems theory, and the idea of sub optimization, which is where

407
00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:47.200
you optimize one part of a system, and it causes kind of a

408
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.840
lack of health to the rest of it. So I was thinking, you know,

409
00:24:50.840 --> 00:24:53.760
I could keep on seeing this person, I feel like I have

410
00:24:53.760 --> 00:24:56.560
enough information to make a decision, I could go extra kind

411
00:24:56.560 --> 00:24:59.840
of super far. But I feel like it

412
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.560
it seemed like I would rather prioritize openness

413
00:25:03.560 --> 00:25:06.060
and freedom to go on dates with other individuals.

414
00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:11.380
And so on Saturday, though, to answer your question,

415
00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:13.440
she said, yeah, you know, I was in a place

416
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.440
where I like, I didn't really know,

417
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.040
I wasn't sure kind of like what was going to happen.

418
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:23.420
And, you know, but she was in a good place

419
00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:25.520
and we both agreed to be acquaintances.

420
00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:27.400
She lives in Pasadena and I'm in Santa Monica,

421
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:28.600
so it's also really far.

422
00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:30.920
Okay.

423
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.400
But like the same church together, same.

424
00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:38.640
No, so we might share the office cubicle together.

425
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:39.480
Yeah, exactly.

426
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.120
No, yeah, we might see each other again at parties

427
00:25:42.120 --> 00:25:46.100
or actually I said maybe this is too soon,

428
00:25:46.100 --> 00:25:48.080
but if I meet other guys who I might feel like

429
00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:49.400
might be a good fit, you know,

430
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.600
if you're okay with that, I'll let you know.

431
00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:53.520
She was like, that would be great.

432
00:25:53.520 --> 00:25:57.000
Yeah, sounds like it ended well.

433
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:57.840
I think it did.

434
00:25:59.060 --> 00:25:59.900
Good deal.

435
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:02.840
Well, that's really interesting.

436
00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:03.680
Thanks for sharing.

437
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:04.760
I really appreciate that, Thomas.

438
00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:09.760
Thanks for being open and so what do you think you,

439
00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:14.120
what do you think you learned from that situation?

440
00:26:14.120 --> 00:26:19.120
Like just in three words or less, you know, like.

441
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:26.480
I learned the value of care.

442
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.280
I think she was such a caring person

443
00:26:30.280 --> 00:26:34.360
and she did such a good job being incredibly committed

444
00:26:34.360 --> 00:26:37.720
to like the ideas of formation within community

445
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.880
and like being present for like a little girl,

446
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.840
gave her a jar of honey and that kind of stuff.

447
00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:45.640
It was really wonderful and it was a strong contrast

448
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.200
from someone kind of like very physically beautiful

449
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:50.800
that I went out with about a month ago

450
00:26:50.800 --> 00:26:55.800
who had less kindness and less ability to care.

451
00:26:56.520 --> 00:27:00.240
Less ability to understand kind of like the difficulties

452
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.180
that kind of normal people go through and experience.

453
00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:04.560
Yeah.

454
00:27:04.560 --> 00:27:06.960
Well, I feel like you're the kind of guy

455
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.080
that's very considerate, kind in that way

456
00:27:09.080 --> 00:27:13.920
and so you seeing this reciprocated back to yourself

457
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.880
and her behavior, I'm just assuming,

458
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.080
it kind of sounds like you felt like

459
00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:22.320
that was really refreshing, which is great.

460
00:27:22.320 --> 00:27:23.840
So you're like, oh, okay,

461
00:27:23.840 --> 00:27:25.900
this really does exist, so to speak.

462
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.240
And then when you said that the girl that was,

463
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.040
I don't know how you said it was,

464
00:27:32.040 --> 00:27:34.200
I don't know how you said it was,

465
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.040
were attractive, physically attractive,

466
00:27:36.040 --> 00:27:38.400
we all perked up and we're like, well, who's that?

467
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.240
Like, how'd that go?

468
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.740
You know, like, I'm just kidding.

469
00:27:42.740 --> 00:27:45.000
But obviously that's not something

470
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:50.000
that's to be talked about or remembered.

471
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:51.840
I mean, I didn't talk about it.

472
00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:53.160
I don't want to hog the whole, all the time.

473
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.040
Is that somebody you're still seeing?

474
00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:58.960
No, no, we're in a dream interpretation group together.

475
00:27:58.960 --> 00:27:59.800
Oh, I see.

476
00:27:59.800 --> 00:28:01.800
She was really interesting to me.

477
00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:05.800
So I did ask her out and we went,

478
00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:07.120
we did go on another fun date,

479
00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:12.120
but she was, she is kind of very Holy Spirit filled,

480
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.680
which is awesome, but much,

481
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.280
like kind of not as much thoughtfulness

482
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:23.520
and not very much compassion.

483
00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:25.040
Yeah.

484
00:28:25.040 --> 00:28:26.000
Okay.

485
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:26.840
Interesting.

486
00:28:28.760 --> 00:28:29.600
All right.

487
00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:30.420
That was good.

488
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:32.480
That was a good little bit there.

489
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:33.520
It was a good conversation.

490
00:28:33.520 --> 00:28:36.760
Thank you so much for sharing and being open about that.

491
00:28:36.760 --> 00:28:37.600
Thanks.

492
00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:41.160
Anything else, guys?

493
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.680
Anybody else got anything else

494
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.920
that they'd like to open up, talk about?

495
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:47.920
We can talk about Envy in just a second.

496
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:53.920
Anybody have any comments on Envy?

497
00:28:54.280 --> 00:28:55.120
Like, do you see,

498
00:28:55.120 --> 00:28:59.920
is that an issue that you see in yourself or other people

499
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.400
with regard to seeing married people and going,

500
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:04.240
you know what?

501
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.680
I, you know, that's, I have a problem with that.

502
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.680
Like I'm from an envious or jealous standpoint.

503
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.920
Anybody?

504
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.760
I do.

505
00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:17.880
I just feel like, okay, you have each other.

506
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.720
I want to stay in touch, but they said, no, I can't.

507
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:21.760
I'm busy.

508
00:29:21.760 --> 00:29:23.840
Okay, if you can't help or hang out,

509
00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:26.000
I want nothing to do with you anymore.

510
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.560
It's basically, once they're married,

511
00:29:27.560 --> 00:29:29.440
I have to pull the plug on the,

512
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:30.480
you gave me no choice,

513
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.360
but to pull a plug on the friendship.

514
00:29:34.280 --> 00:29:36.520
Oh, you're talking about being in friends with somebody

515
00:29:36.520 --> 00:29:38.760
who now is in a relationship.

516
00:29:38.760 --> 00:29:40.200
Or married, yes.

517
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:41.440
Yeah, okay.

518
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:42.920
I see, yeah.

519
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:44.320
Yeah, that can be really challenging

520
00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:47.120
because there's a lot to be said

521
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:48.560
if you're in a relationship.

522
00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:51.600
There are some things sometimes that you feel like

523
00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:54.880
you have certain kind of connections, relationships

524
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.160
that change because of their married status.

525
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.040
And depending on what level of.

526
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:07.120
relationship. And I mean, no, no husband, new husband wants their wife to be super friends

527
00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:16.520
with another guy. That's just like, not, you know, I'm not saying it's wrong or unacceptable,

528
00:30:16.520 --> 00:30:22.480
but I think probably to a degree, it's kind of like, yeah, no, you know, this is my wife.

529
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:27.920
Stay away, basically. And so that would be a level of threat, I think. But I think there's

530
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.880
definitely kingdom and loving and compassionate, peaceful ways to obviously deal with that,

531
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:43.120
right? Rather than like, crush them, obviously. So we can talk more about that. But anybody else,

532
00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:54.160
envy, jealousy, coming up? Cause an issue? I find myself moving toward or experiencing

533
00:30:54.320 --> 00:31:02.800
a deep longing when I engage or interact with a couple, especially a healthy couple or a long

534
00:31:02.800 --> 00:31:12.960
term couple. So I kind of wander between this deep desire and longing, like, I just enjoy

535
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:20.240
watching what they have. And then I also flow between curiosity, like I really want to study

536
00:31:21.040 --> 00:31:29.520
and soak in what's making that relationship work. And then I also sometimes move into grief,

537
00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:37.040
so maybe not quite in grief of what I lost. And so I allow myself to feel, you know, just

538
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:46.320
the disappointment of endings, which, you know, for me is, you know, grieving is just a process,

539
00:31:46.320 --> 00:31:51.920
it's not a destination. At least that's been my experience. So depending on the situation,

540
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:56.640
or the time of day, or whatever might be happening, I kind of triangulate or kind of

541
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:04.640
bounce around inside of that. But overall, I tend to just observe with a lot of fondness

542
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.480
and desire, like, man, look at what they got. I wonder what it took. I wonder what

543
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:17.600
sacrifices have been made. I wonder the difficulty, the ruptures and repairs that have

544
00:32:17.600 --> 00:32:22.000
taken place. And, you know, depending on how close I am to them, or how open they are, you know,

545
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:29.360
I'll even engage in a conversation, or I'll just sit back and just take it in, to be honest,

546
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.720
take in their glory, I think is maybe the best way to say it.

547
00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:40.720
Yeah, that's interesting. I'll share some little anecdote. Like, we, you know, of course, there

548
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:49.600
was the news over the weekend, right, with this tragic situation with an assassination attempt,

549
00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:56.720
and all the stuff that went down, and somebody innocent died, and, you know, all that. And it

550
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:01.600
was made my wife and I think about for a second there, we were recounting, we're like, how many,

551
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:06.080
like, assassination attempts had happened on presidents. And then we started thinking,

552
00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:12.640
like, how many actual, you know, men who were present are still alive. And there happens to be

553
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:18.320
actually six former presidents alive right now. I believe I get the number right. And, of course,

554
00:33:18.320 --> 00:33:24.720
Jimmy Carter is still alive, technically, although the news report is that he doesn't really wake up

555
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:33.360
very much. But he's 99 years old. And he will be 100, I think, in October. But one of the little

556
00:33:33.360 --> 00:33:37.360
anecdotes about just coming, you know, like the path of, you know, how you go down the path,

557
00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:44.000
like, well, how many, you know, what about Jimmy? One of the things he said, he said, he's known to

558
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:51.040
have been said, I didn't think that I would live this long, number one, which was interesting.

559
00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:02.080
And then he actually has been married to his wife for 77 years. 77, can you imagine that?

560
00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:08.800
And he said, also, another thing that his, I guess, he's known to have been said, was

561
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:18.239
the key to a long life is a good marriage. I went, wow, that's amazing. Like, that's really

562
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:22.480
interesting. And I know he's a believer. I know he's, you know, a good Bible believing man,

563
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:30.080
whatever people thought about him as a president or whatever. But, you know, he's taught Bible

564
00:34:30.080 --> 00:34:35.280
studies for decades after having been president and so forth personally, like in his church. I

565
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:39.840
mean, he would literally show up like weekly Bible studies. I don't know if you know any of that,

566
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:47.520
but it's really kind of fascinating that the comment of a key to a long life is a good

567
00:34:47.520 --> 00:34:55.280
marriage. And I thought, I found that to be really amazing in this day and age, that that was

568
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.040
somebody's testimony. But I, you know, I'm sure there are people that you know, or they've heard

569
00:34:59.040 --> 00:35:00.240
of, or you've heard their story.

570
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.800
story about long lasting marriages and kind of like the

571
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:06.480
line along the lines of what Rob was saying about, you know,

572
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:12.760
boy, what it must have taken to endure a marriage. And I'm not

573
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.720
saying that when you're married, you're basically just enduring.

574
00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:19.640
I'm not saying that obviously, there's tremendous, you know,

575
00:35:19.640 --> 00:35:24.320
benefits and life and heritage and beauty that goes along with

576
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:27.480
being in relationship like that. But I just think it's it's

577
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.680
interesting to I hear things like that being married 77

578
00:35:30.680 --> 00:35:35.000
years, I'm like, what's that like, you know, like, what is

579
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.520
the you know, we obviously need to hear some secrets and keys

580
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:42.880
and you know, like tips on like, what that was like, and what it

581
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:48.640
meant to, to be that. So just sharing that with you just at

582
00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:52.920
this think about so, um, Mike, you have your hand raised. So

583
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:59.600
Yeah. So I can, I can relate to Rob. What did I just do? Sorry,

584
00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:01.880
I want my phone. I gotta get my computer out. But, you know,

585
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:05.560
Rob, as far as like, I don't like, I get a longing, like,

586
00:36:05.560 --> 00:36:08.000
you know, longing on what's missed, right? You when you see

587
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.920
a good couple, and I do do a lot of analytics, right? Like,

588
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.760
what's working for them? What is what are they doing? Right? You

589
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:18.600
know, my great grandparents were married 75 years, they got

590
00:36:18.600 --> 00:36:20.840
married in the depression with the hooks and the crooks is what

591
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.920
they used to say. And you know, one of the things they said to

592
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.960
their longevity was they never lost appreciation for the little

593
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:33.000
things. Like, I mean, like, they, I mean, 75 years, 70 plus

594
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.000
years in, we're like, you know, thank you for passing this all

595
00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:39.520
like, it was like, they were just they were so grateful for

596
00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:43.120
each other. And, you know, and they and they were the salt of

597
00:36:43.120 --> 00:36:46.080
the world. So you know, it's like, everybody thinks it's the

598
00:36:46.600 --> 00:36:49.200
or not everybody, but a lot of people think it's the big things

599
00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:53.080
that matter. And the more the more I look at it, I look at it's

600
00:36:53.080 --> 00:36:57.000
the little things. It's being able to hold, hold hands and

601
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.880
enjoy each other's company. It's, it's where you both sit

602
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.360
together and your nervous systems deregulate because

603
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:08.000
you're safe, and you're at peace, right? You know, and your

604
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.080
cortisol levels drop. And like, so no, it's just, it's pretty

605
00:37:12.080 --> 00:37:17.120
cool. Like, it's to see that, you know, you know, and I, you

606
00:37:17.120 --> 00:37:20.680
know, a lot of maturity and learning that, you know, but

607
00:37:20.680 --> 00:37:24.440
like, it is being married in a bad marriage can shorten your

608
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:28.600
life, but like length, because of all the stress, but actually

609
00:37:28.600 --> 00:37:32.760
having a great marriage can can prolong your your life. Yeah,

610
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:38.480
yeah. I would agree with that. Yeah. My wife is definitely

611
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:45.360
contending for the extension of my life, when she slaps that

612
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.240
piece of food out of my hand. So you don't need that. Right

613
00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:51.960
now. Today, we had lunch. And she goes, I was just like, I'm

614
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.240
gonna go to Topo Chico, which is like, you know, like this,

615
00:37:54.240 --> 00:37:58.120
that's the, like the sparkling water, you know, she goes, No,

616
00:37:58.120 --> 00:37:59.720
you don't need that. I'm like, what's wrong with that? It's

617
00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:02.320
just water, you know, she's now drink regular water, like

618
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.360
you're dehydrated. You think like drinking sparkling water

619
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.440
is going to hydrate you? It's not, you know, drink regular

620
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.640
water. And I'm like, Okay, because how much water have you

621
00:38:10.640 --> 00:38:13.640
had today? And I'm like, I don't know, like, I drank coffee.

622
00:38:13.640 --> 00:38:17.280
It's got water in it. She goes, No, that's not water. Drink

623
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.160
regular water. Like, what are you doing? She didn't quite say

624
00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:24.600
knucklehead, but almost. I mean, she quite almost got to the

625
00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:27.720
point. But anyway, it was, it was good. And that's how our

626
00:38:27.720 --> 00:38:29.960
relationship goes. And then we sat and had lunch together. And

627
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:33.680
it was beautiful thing. So, Thomas, you have your hand

628
00:38:33.680 --> 00:38:34.320
raised. Go ahead.

629
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:41.200
Yeah. Um, yeah, I really just, I wanted to continue to honor

630
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:45.560
what you were saying, Hunter, I think that I think it was really

631
00:38:45.560 --> 00:38:49.920
wise that you talked about how comparison can happen when we're

632
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:54.680
envious. And I think I've definitely felt that, especially

633
00:38:54.680 --> 00:38:58.160
kind of in past years of, you know, then you hear about like,

634
00:38:58.200 --> 00:39:00.160
Oh, yeah, there's health benefits. And it's like, well,

635
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.560
why don't I have those health benefits, you know, and whatever

636
00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:07.600
else, there are so many wonderful things. I think, for

637
00:39:07.600 --> 00:39:10.920
me, and this isn't something that I would say has to be true

638
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.560
for anyone else. But one thing I've really appreciated is the

639
00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:17.920
concept of stewardship. And I feel like that's been a helpful

640
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.680
reframe for me to say, like, okay, well, that person is

641
00:39:22.680 --> 00:39:26.280
stewarding something else. And I'm stewarding what I have. And

642
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:30.480
do I really believe that God will take care of me. And there

643
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:33.840
are things that I've made it through that I didn't think that

644
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:38.640
I would survive, you know, but I think that that God did take

645
00:39:38.640 --> 00:39:43.080
care of me. And that question of how much do I believe that

646
00:39:43.080 --> 00:39:46.720
God will take care of me, I think is a really important one

647
00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:48.480
when I deal with envy sometimes.

648
00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:50.520
Yeah.

649
00:39:51.160 --> 00:39:56.600
And and do I believe that he's promised to, you know, to meet

650
00:39:56.600 --> 00:39:58.720
my heart's desires, like it says in Psalms.

651
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.720
you know, whatever that looks like, even if the road there is a lot harder than I kind of hoped it would be.

652
00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:07.060
Yeah.

653
00:40:09.600 --> 00:40:16.640
Rob, going back to you just for a second, how different are you now, because I know you were

654
00:40:16.640 --> 00:40:26.640
married, and like how different are you now than when you were married as a person?

655
00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:31.200
Because I guess it's interesting that when Thomas brought up that word stewardship,

656
00:40:31.200 --> 00:40:35.040
that's like a huge big topic, but that's one of the things I feel like

657
00:40:37.600 --> 00:40:43.200
from a male's perspective that's so important in the marriage relationship. And of course we

658
00:40:43.200 --> 00:40:48.240
talked about, we put that visual up for like way too long last week about the whole thing,

659
00:40:48.240 --> 00:40:54.240
the umbrella thing, and that brought up a lot of visual. And I think one of the responses,

660
00:40:54.240 --> 00:41:00.560
a lot to that visual, for instance, is kind of like, this is really triggering because it

661
00:41:00.560 --> 00:41:08.720
like puts a lot of too much weight or too much heaviness on the male to be provider. Yeah,

662
00:41:08.720 --> 00:41:13.360
it's one thing if you're looking at it from a female's perspective, like this is an overloading

663
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:19.040
situation. But I think for males, one of the things that comes up is like, oh, it's too hard,

664
00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:27.040
it's too much, it's too this, whatever. But that stewardship is interesting. How different are you

665
00:41:27.680 --> 00:41:38.160
now than you were as a married man in terms of just your understanding of who you are?

666
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.880
And I don't mean that to be a loaded question. I'm just trying to, I'm just curious.

667
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:52.480
How much time do you have? Yeah, I'm trying to think of the quickest way to frame that up. I

668
00:41:53.040 --> 00:42:04.800
think that every adjustment, every learning, every kind of grace-filled step that I've taken

669
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:12.720
in the last five years, I've been separated, divorced for five, total of five. And really

670
00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:18.640
trying to heal, really even four years before that, so we'll talk total of nine. But I really

671
00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:26.400
took the road to recovery, addiction recovery. And then eventually that moved into the idea of

672
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:32.880
discovery of who God intended when he made me five years ago. So that's kind of, I'll call that my

673
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:43.200
kind of anchor point. All of that road is paved with what I'll call just a long trail of harm,

674
00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:56.080
a long trail of failure. And so without getting into tremendous detail, I didn't have the most

675
00:42:56.080 --> 00:43:05.280
maturity. In many ways, I was mature. Beyond my years, I started taking care of things that I

676
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:11.760
shouldn't have had to when I was six, seven, eight, nine. So I was surrogate dad, surrogate husband,

677
00:43:14.080 --> 00:43:17.600
didn't really have a chance to be a boy. So there's a lot of maturity I brought into the

678
00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:24.960
relationship of doing things and caring for things, caring for situations. But there was

679
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:31.120
just a real lack of emotional maturity. And I subscribe to the idea that emotional maturity

680
00:43:31.120 --> 00:43:37.200
typically is stunted or halted at the age that addiction starts. So in many ways,

681
00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:42.640
I have four adult children and I was the fifth inside of my marriage.

682
00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:51.840
So inside of that, I didn't have the maturity. I certainly didn't bring skill. I didn't bring

683
00:43:52.800 --> 00:44:02.000
the desire to change who I had become. And in fact, addiction really was like a drip IV.

684
00:44:02.640 --> 00:44:06.480
I kind of think about the idea of an IV dripping poison into my heart

685
00:44:07.520 --> 00:44:12.640
that just changes ever so slightly year over year over year over year.

686
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:20.400
And so I look up one day and start to face the harm that I've caused and enter into those really

687
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:26.720
difficult conversations with my then spouse and really started to lean into her pain and

688
00:44:27.520 --> 00:44:35.200
harm that I caused. So I mean, it's just a huge wake up call like, oh my gosh, who did I become?

689
00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:46.400
And how did I get here? So all of that was a catalyst to pick up every component of my failure

690
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:53.280
and really examine it and pick it up. And so to kind of pick it up, look at a 360

691
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.760
degree angle, I had to name it in order to heal from it, name it to tame it.

692
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:07.000
And so really the last five-ish years have been just a very thoughtful,

693
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.840
intentional, aggressive road to being the kind of man that God wants me to be.

694
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:17.200
I sat down at some point, I did the math, I don't really keep track anymore,

695
00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:25.600
but I probably have almost 4,000 hours of work over the last five years, you know,

696
00:45:25.600 --> 00:45:32.280
between studying, self-study, examination groups, therapy, intensives, you name it.

697
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.640
And I don't share that to brag, I just share that because honestly, guys,

698
00:45:35.640 --> 00:45:44.200
I had that much ground to make up and I'm really proud of the work that I've done,

699
00:45:44.200 --> 00:45:46.760
but I still feel like it's a lifelong effort for me.

700
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:52.320
So, it gives you a hand and anytime you ever want to talk either online or offline,

701
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:58.440
I'd be glad to talk about the specific details because, like I said, in order for me to heal,

702
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:02.400
I had to get really specific about who I had become.

703
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:03.640
Yeah.

704
00:46:03.640 --> 00:46:11.880
No, I ask that because a lot of different ways.

705
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.160
When did faith come into your perspective?

706
00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:19.760
Is that something you've always had or grew up with or just like in the beginning or in the middle?

707
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:21.120
Since I was a kid.

708
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.080
Okay. So, yeah, it's always there.

709
00:46:23.080 --> 00:46:26.400
So, it's just a matter of like, yeah.

710
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:30.240
Yeah, that came up today as well when I was spending time with my wife.

711
00:46:30.240 --> 00:46:31.200
We were out.

712
00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:35.400
I went to an appointment with her and then we did a few errands and then we just happened to grab lunch.

713
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:42.280
But we were thinking, I was thinking about my previous ministry experience

714
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:50.120
and there's some things going on now that are like precipitating from just long line of just,

715
00:46:50.120 --> 00:46:52.440
I think, wrong behavior.

716
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:58.840
Nothing like extremely, you know, like gratuitous in terms of its scandal,

717
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.400
but definitely just not healthy.

718
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:07.840
And I was lamenting, like I was talking with my wife and she had mentioned,

719
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:13.320
she goes, yeah, she goes, I understand now that I know more about that ministry

720
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:18.160
because my wife went through an equal amount of just usurpations

721
00:47:18.200 --> 00:47:24.480
and abuse in terms of spiritual abuse in her church experience prior to us meeting.

722
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:28.760
And we were both on the tail ends of that and tail ends of our divorces

723
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:30.880
when we actually met each other for the first time.

724
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:36.280
And again, we were just neighbors, you know.

725
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:42.640
But she said she understood my ex-wife more now in light of some of these things that are coming together

726
00:47:42.640 --> 00:47:48.760
because my ex-wife and I were part of that ministry in the way it was back in the day.

727
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:52.840
And I said, yeah, I said, you know, there's so many things much,

728
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:59.600
so many more things I understand now about relationship, about stewardness,

729
00:47:59.600 --> 00:48:02.800
responsibility of husbands and wives and all of that.

730
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:08.760
Now, having been married to Jackie, just period, let alone the work that we do now,

731
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:11.760
like with heart work and last year's thing and all that,

732
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:17.120
just being married to a woman like Jackie who is just like,

733
00:48:17.120 --> 00:48:22.280
she's pretty transformative, very strong nature, but very ideating.

734
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:29.360
And she has a lot of understanding and a lot of like, she just has a lot of great intuition.

735
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:33.360
And I said, it's just amazing.

736
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:38.280
I don't know what I would have been like had I been either married to somebody else

737
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:40.160
or continue to be married to my ex-wife,

738
00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:45.440
because I hope I would have come into some level of understanding that I have now

739
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:48.040
to the point where I'm just like, yeah, I still need to,

740
00:48:48.040 --> 00:48:54.560
I think there's some things I still need to articulate to my ex-wife.

741
00:48:54.560 --> 00:48:58.280
Like for the record, like, I'm sorry, first of all,

742
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:05.960
that we were so intertwined in an environment that was so unhealthy,

743
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:12.320
even though I had no idea at the time that it even was or that even like,

744
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.240
like, okay, so what else, or, you know, what else do you do?

745
00:49:15.240 --> 00:49:16.960
You know, you don't, you don't know what to do.

746
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.280
Like what, what I've done differently, you know, type thing.

747
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.320
I have no, I can't, I didn't know how to answer that.

748
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:28.400
But to just to say that even ways that I treated her when we were young teenagers in,

749
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:32.840
you know, junior high and high school that were just not appropriate, you know,

750
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:34.800
for a young Christian man, you know, type of thing,

751
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:39.600
just stuff like that, that really like, because she and Jackie,

752
00:49:39.600 --> 00:49:44.600
their backstory is very similar in terms of how they grew up and the trauma.

753
00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:49.040
And I just had no understanding for the kind of trauma that she,

754
00:49:49.040 --> 00:49:51.880
my ex-wife endured and what she had to deal with.

755
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:57.520
And now, now that she's dealing with her faith development, which, you know,

756
00:49:57.520 --> 00:49:59.960
we both pray for her and not that I don't think she's.

757
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.960
way out of the sphere, but I think she's developed in a way that's like, I hope she's okay

758
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:15.120
spiritually. I pray for her to be well and healthy in that way. That just came up.

759
00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:23.760
That's one of the things I feel like is very important for married and for unmarried men

760
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:30.560
in terms of, and I've said this before, that we're having a crisis right now with masculinity

761
00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:39.920
with regard to healthy, well, righteous masculinity. It's very, very absent from

762
00:50:40.720 --> 00:50:49.920
the front page. It's just either super, just crazy, toxic, terrible, or it's just like a movie

763
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:55.840
I just saw the other day where one of the major things of the movie is that all the men in the

764
00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:07.440
movie were just extremely not present and completely powerless. It was total abdication

765
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:13.680
of any kind of stewardship, responsibility, any kind of stepping into who their true identity is.

766
00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:20.800
It was just, a lot of that is just screaming at me right now and wondering, it's just like,

767
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:25.040
what can we do about it? What kind of conversations can we do? How can we help men

768
00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:33.680
show up? How can we help men rise up? How can we help men understand the nature of stewardship

769
00:51:33.680 --> 00:51:38.720
without putting such a heavy burden? Because the burden is not supposed to be heavy. It's

770
00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:44.000
supposed to be light according to scripture, but it is a certain level of responsibility

771
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:57.120
needs to be accepted in order to really strike correctly in the power of the masculine and what

772
00:51:57.120 --> 00:52:02.560
it can bring to our lives individually, our families, and our societies and everything.

773
00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:12.880
That's a really strong problem right now. Maybe you guys have some ideas as far as this is what I

774
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:20.000
see, men need to fill in the blank, whatever it is. It's not a put on. It's like, yeah, men need

775
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:27.760
to do this. I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about where is the healthy invitation,

776
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:35.120
encouragement, that kind of thing. You're certainly welcome to respond to any of that,

777
00:52:35.120 --> 00:52:39.280
like any of you guys. I just- Thomas, you came off mute first. Do you want to jump in?

778
00:52:42.240 --> 00:52:47.680
Or maybe not. Were you talking to me? We're just unmuted. That's all. You were on mute first. I

779
00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:53.280
said, did you want to jump in first? Oh, I haven't muted myself generally. I got you. You're just

780
00:52:53.280 --> 00:53:01.440
being very, very quiet. I'll just start. I don't have the answer. I just have my own experience to

781
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:09.520
reflect on. I think that would be appropriate because that's why I asked you the question

782
00:53:09.520 --> 00:53:16.320
before. How different are you now than you are now? You can speak to like, hey, here's a guy

783
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:25.760
who was obviously not aware or didn't even want to be aware and now super aware. What's that

784
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:34.240
transition like? Oh, man. Yeah. I wish I had an arrow to fire. This is the one everybody should

785
00:53:34.240 --> 00:53:41.200
put into their quiver and I don't. I've heard you say it. I've heard Jackie say it. I'll come back

786
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:47.680
to just I think the core of what the both of you are offering in this program and that's to do the

787
00:53:47.680 --> 00:53:55.760
work. I've heard you say show up and I come back in a meeting, I'll say show up for yourself first,

788
00:53:55.760 --> 00:54:03.440
but it's showing up to do the work and the work can mean a whole lot of things. We call it heart

789
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:12.800
work here. And that has just paid dividends for me, David. I can't tell you how important this

790
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:18.720
idea of doing the work has been for me, which for me, again, is showing up with guys that I have

791
00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:24.080
four or five year relationships with, listening to their stories, turning around and offering

792
00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:30.640
that back through mentorships or like mentoring other guys so I can give back. But if I had to

793
00:54:30.640 --> 00:54:36.080
pick one, one of the biggest advancements in my journey was to actually do story work,

794
00:54:37.120 --> 00:54:44.880
to go back into childhood, to understand where little t trauma started. What are some of those

795
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:51.680
core memories that shaped the narrative of how I believe, what I believe about myself.

796
00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:56.960
And then to really tell the truth about that. I've done that in therapeutic settings,

797
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.840
group settings, I've done it in retreat settings.

798
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.040
things. You know, and a lot of the what I'll just call more

799
00:55:05.040 --> 00:55:10.640
modern, you know, views of even Christian counseling, have

800
00:55:10.640 --> 00:55:13.440
stunt started to happen to this narrative of story work, but

801
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.760
particularly bringing the youngest young parts of

802
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:20.360
ourselves, back to back to whole this idea that there are young

803
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.480
parts of ourselves that are stuck and I, it's been a big, a

804
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:28.360
big part of my journey. So all to be said, I mean, it's it's

805
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:31.560
showing up, it's doing the work, it's leaning into the

806
00:55:31.560 --> 00:55:34.600
uncomfortableness, it's going into what I thought was a dark

807
00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:38.280
cave that I might never come out of if I ever went to that place

808
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:43.840
in my having the courage to do it doing with with other men or

809
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:48.480
other like men, like minded men. And then just building off of

810
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:51.200
each one of those experiences and letting them transform

811
00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:54.520
through all of it. So I know silver bullet, I wish I could

812
00:55:54.520 --> 00:55:57.000
offer it. But it for me, it's just been about showing up

813
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.760
daily and doing and doing the work.

814
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:03.560
Yeah, yeah. And then that's huge. Because, again, like I

815
00:56:03.560 --> 00:56:08.560
said, whether you're married or not married, like, it's like

816
00:56:08.560 --> 00:56:12.960
doing the work is worth it. I mean, and doing that, like,

817
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:18.680
without having to say that you have to do it, like, again, like

818
00:56:18.680 --> 00:56:22.440
a put on, because so many things are put on people that I think

819
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:26.400
are so inappropriate. So like, we got part of our world, like

820
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:29.240
just trying to cast off things because they just can't deal

821
00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:34.240
with too much. But at the same time, it's like an order for you

822
00:56:34.240 --> 00:56:38.600
to be like healthy and well and responsible and like, not just

823
00:56:38.600 --> 00:56:42.040
like a good productive member of society, but like, you know, all

824
00:56:42.040 --> 00:56:47.200
that you can be in God, you have to take on the responsibility or

825
00:56:47.200 --> 00:56:50.320
the stewardship or do the work or like, you know, want to like,

826
00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:57.480
you know, be better, be healthy. Well, so it's an oxymoron oxymoron

827
00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:03.120
ish, you know, in that way. Mike, you have your hand raised.

828
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:08.320
Yeah, I just wanted to, I've done a crap load. I've been I've

829
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:13.240
done 30 years of work. So, you know, I think one of the keys is

830
00:57:13.240 --> 00:57:20.080
I'm not understanding what you did. But not see, I had a really

831
00:57:20.080 --> 00:57:22.800
bad propensity to be like, Oh, man, I should have known. I

832
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.440
should have would have, you know, like, I should have known

833
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:26.880
that I shouldn't have done that I should, you know, and I would

834
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.400
have should have myself and should have myself on the foot

835
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:34.360
and it, you know, and it was really condemning. Where it's

836
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:39.440
like, hey, I like Rob, I mean, I became an adult at three. You

837
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:43.320
know, I mean, I remember having to protect my mom, right. And,

838
00:57:43.680 --> 00:57:48.520
okay. And so like, I took on I lost my childhood. And so, you

839
00:57:48.520 --> 00:57:51.120
know, but getting back to bringing full circle, bringing

840
00:57:51.120 --> 00:57:53.920
that little kid who should have been protected, who was the

841
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:57.000
protector, right, you know, and like, like the story, I love the

842
00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:01.200
Rob, I love the story thing, because that and bringing Jesus

843
00:58:01.200 --> 00:58:05.440
into that equation. Jesus, where were you? And just, you know,

844
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:08.400
that's funny. You know, the verse, and you will know the

845
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:11.320
truth, and the truth shall set you free. I can tell you in my

846
00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:16.320
trauma journey, Jesus coming, Jesus is the truth, coming into

847
00:58:16.720 --> 00:58:23.360
the traumas, actually brought freedom. And so, and, and, you

848
00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:26.960
know, and actually just looking back and remembering my younger

849
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.480
self and like, and apologizing, hey, you know, I wish I would

850
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.320
have done better, you know, and like, and just owning my owning

851
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:39.280
the fact that I, I missed, you know, I think that brings

852
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:42.000
freedom, you know, too often, or like, Oh, man, I don't want to

853
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:47.320
admit that, but not admitting it keeps you bound. I mean, I, you

854
00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:51.960
know, real, real masculinity owns their crap. Good, bad and

855
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.920
different, right. And so I just found that I just found that

856
00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:58.600
even with my ex, the Lord's like, I want you to apologize

857
00:58:58.600 --> 00:59:01.080
for this. And I'm like, dude, she's barbecuing, she's

858
00:59:01.080 --> 00:59:03.880
barbecuing me right now. I'm not gonna apologize for

859
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:10.160
anything. Yeah. But, but when I did, I was free. You know, that

860
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:14.600
the yoke, the enemy puts the yoke of regret of all the you

861
00:59:14.600 --> 00:59:18.680
know, so I just have gone back through my past. And you know,

862
00:59:18.680 --> 00:59:22.680
I've owned all my stuff where I missed both to myself, and to

863
00:59:22.680 --> 00:59:25.680
others. And, you know, and then the other thing is just

864
00:59:25.680 --> 00:59:29.480
abiding. Because he'll take you through the process, you need

865
00:59:29.520 --> 00:59:35.120
to when you need to. And when he does it, it works. You know, you

866
00:59:35.120 --> 00:59:37.640
don't have to force it, you just have to ask the Holy Spirit to

867
00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:40.320
lead you through it. So that's just the things I've found.

868
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:45.440
Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, because I steer away from

869
00:59:46.520 --> 00:59:52.120
it's like, I just said earlier, you know, it's it's only now, in

870
00:59:52.120 --> 00:59:56.600
a lot of ways that I've realized. I don't want to say

871
00:59:56.600 --> 01:00:00.040
just the error of my ways, like, Oh, I did a bunch of whatever.

872
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:14.160
But I'm just like, my behavior and how it was either inappropriate, damaging, or whether

873
01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:21.940
it was just completely clueless, there's also, it's like, you're talking about all the things

874
01:00:21.940 --> 01:00:24.920
that you were like, yeah, I should have known better, whatever.

875
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:27.400
But sometimes you don't.

876
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:29.560
Sometimes you don't know better.

877
01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:33.320
It's like, you can't apologize or repent for things.

878
01:00:33.320 --> 01:00:37.680
You can, but what I'm saying is, is like, once you realize that the, what was going

879
01:00:37.680 --> 01:00:45.480
on, but at the same time, there there's, you know, you live a lot of your life, not aware.

880
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:48.200
Well, there's, there's a say, there's a 12 step.

881
01:00:48.200 --> 01:00:49.200
There's a lot of 12 step sayings.

882
01:00:49.200 --> 01:00:50.200
I don't know them all.

883
01:00:50.200 --> 01:00:52.400
And so I won't, I won't 12 step you all to death.

884
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:58.680
But one of my favorites is when you know more, you do better, right?

885
01:00:58.800 --> 01:00:59.800
Yeah.

886
01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:00.800
That's okay.

887
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.320
Like it's, I think that's an okay, an okay saying to live by.

888
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:06.320
Yeah.

889
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:07.320
Right, right.

890
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:08.320
Right.

891
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:16.200
And there's, and there's, and there's some, then there's some therapy, some releasing

892
01:01:16.200 --> 01:01:21.840
when you can, when you're, I think when you're led specifically to make amends, not that

893
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:27.440
you have to be like, you know, have a diary list of everything and everybody you did wrong.

894
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.800
I don't know that's how it'd be impossible, but maybe sometimes you feel like you need

895
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:32.060
to do a little bit of that.

896
01:01:32.060 --> 01:01:36.560
But I think where you're, you're, you're, you're really trying to like, Hey, you know

897
01:01:36.560 --> 01:01:37.560
what?

898
01:01:37.560 --> 01:01:42.720
There's something I realized about me or about the past or whatever that I want to like,

899
01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:45.040
I want to, I want to bring reconciliation.

900
01:01:45.040 --> 01:01:50.600
It's more of a reconciliation thing than it is really like a, um, I need to apologize

901
01:01:50.600 --> 01:01:52.440
or I need to get forgiveness over that.

902
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:57.080
Maybe it is something like that, but I'm talking about more of a sort of like bringing a reconciliation,

903
01:01:57.720 --> 01:02:04.200
a healing, an opportunity, I guess, for reconciliation when you can go back in some of those situations.

904
01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:10.240
Like I feel like I have to do some of that, uh, with and for my ex wife, uh, because I'd

905
01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:13.880
feel like there's something specific, especially there.

906
01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:16.800
And, uh, and I just feel like it's something before the Lord.

907
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.640
So I'm going to do it at some point.

908
01:02:21.640 --> 01:02:22.640
All right.

909
01:02:22.640 --> 01:02:23.640
Got one more thing.

910
01:02:23.640 --> 01:02:28.760
Since I, since I wait, since I'm going to be three, six and I feel like I wasted part

911
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:30.440
of my life, how can I undo it?

912
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:34.560
Like I can't travel back in time.

913
01:02:34.560 --> 01:02:42.320
I think all of us to some degree, including myself would have that, that we could say

914
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:45.360
that statement, we've wasted portions of our life.

915
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:50.600
I think everybody in human being on the world has quote wasted part of their life.

916
01:02:50.600 --> 01:02:55.560
But quite honestly, I think that is sort of some of the meaning of life.

917
01:02:55.560 --> 01:03:00.980
It's not necessarily, yeah, you may feel like you wasted it because of whatever thousand

918
01:03:00.980 --> 01:03:02.580
different reasons.

919
01:03:02.580 --> 01:03:08.320
But at the same time, there's a sense there's a, there's a sort of a juxtaposition and irony

920
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:15.320
in the fact that that is really kind of what part of life is all about is that you go

921
01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:17.280
through it.

922
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.920
And there are portions where you look back, like Mike saying, like, I should have known

923
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:24.880
better or whatever, or I wasn't aware or whatever.

924
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:29.880
And now you in a statement, Rob says, like, you know, when you know better, you do better

925
01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:30.880
type things.

926
01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:33.840
So that's part of life.

927
01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:39.520
So in one way, you want to take responsibility and stewardship for it and you want to give

928
01:03:39.520 --> 01:03:44.000
over the part of it that, you know, that is, is trying to be redeemed because Jesus paid

929
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:48.160
the price for your salvation and for your redemption.

930
01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:50.540
And so you take your burdens off that.

931
01:03:50.540 --> 01:03:53.840
But at the same time, you also don't want to like sit here and just beat yourself up

932
01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:59.440
like you're a terrible person, like you have to like make recompense for all of this because

933
01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:03.560
it's just not real and it's not possible.

934
01:04:03.560 --> 01:04:08.160
And it's also the fact that suppose you took back all the time, all those years back and

935
01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:09.480
did a restart.

936
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:14.680
Well, the problem is then you have to, well, even though I did some of that stuff outside

937
01:04:14.680 --> 01:04:19.480
of that, you were building up, you were, you were constructing to make building your life

938
01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:20.480
up.

939
01:04:20.480 --> 01:04:23.760
That would also mean you have to rebuild your whole life again, all the way back up from

940
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:24.760
scratch.

941
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:25.760
Of course.

942
01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:30.240
And I think one of the greatest things about, and I don't know whether I said this on the

943
01:04:30.240 --> 01:04:36.760
prayer call on Friday, Faith Friday, I get into sort of a sort of like a, just a sort

944
01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:43.440
of a encouragement moment talking about living on this side of the cross as, as in terms

945
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:51.120
of our faith development and in terms of our understanding of what Jesus did for us.

946
01:04:51.120 --> 01:04:56.840
We have to remember that Jesus didn't die for us to redeem us and pay the price for

947
01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:58.760
our sins and our mess ups.

948
01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:00.040
He literally died.

949
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:07.200
us. That is a huge revelation, if you can sort of like connect

950
01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:13.560
that. He literally died as us, he became as we were without

951
01:05:13.560 --> 01:05:17.960
sin, and didn't just take the place of us. Or I mean, didn't

952
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.280
just die like for us like, yeah, I'll just do this for you. But

953
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:25.240
he literally with all of his emotions, all the temptations,

954
01:05:25.240 --> 01:05:31.160
all of who he was as a man, as a human being, literally died as

955
01:05:31.160 --> 01:05:38.480
us. And so that level of redemption and receiving that

956
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:40.800
and just a revelation and understanding of what that

957
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:47.800
means for us is huge. That doesn't mean that you cast off

958
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:52.160
all of the work and the stewardship and the response,

959
01:05:52.160 --> 01:05:56.240
there's just a healthy balance of that, you know, like before

960
01:05:56.240 --> 01:06:01.520
the Lord. So I don't know how to put it any other way than that.

961
01:06:01.520 --> 01:06:05.160
But I don't hope that makes sense. But I think that's, I

962
01:06:05.160 --> 01:06:08.880
think it's worth mentioning that rather than walking away from a

963
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:13.080
conversation like this feeling like, burdened, I would never

964
01:06:13.080 --> 01:06:16.400
want anybody to walk away from a conversation like this going,

965
01:06:17.120 --> 01:06:21.480
Oh, man, I feel so bad about myself, or I feel like, you

966
01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:24.360
know, I've got, yeah, I've got to do the work. But I just

967
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:27.120
really, really, you know, feel guilty or feel, you know,

968
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.960
oppressed or whatever. Because that's not what this

969
01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:32.280
conversation is about this conversation about as an

970
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:36.840
invitation to come higher and invocation and invitation. And I

971
01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:41.960
think that's, I think that's everything that everybody that

972
01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:44.720
commented on this call, I think that's what their heart was, of

973
01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:47.840
course saying, and I love that. So we've had a really good

974
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:51.960
discussion on this tonight. So I appreciate all of your input.

975
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:56.000
Thank you so much, each one of you for sharing and telling your

976
01:06:56.000 --> 01:07:03.000
story. And asking the questions. The enemy, yeah, the enemy

977
01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:09.240
brings condemnation. The Lord brings things to you that the

978
01:07:09.240 --> 01:07:10.480
Lord brings things.

979
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:13.840
Sorry.

980
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:17.080
So the enemy brings condemnation, like, hey, you're

981
01:07:17.080 --> 01:07:19.720
bad, you're screwed up. Yeah. The Lord's like, hey, I'm

982
01:07:19.720 --> 01:07:22.920
bringing this up. So you can be free. You know, a lot of times,

983
01:07:23.200 --> 01:07:25.520
he's like, hey, you screwed this, you know, he's like,

984
01:07:25.560 --> 01:07:30.080
there's a mistake you made. And when you rectify it, inside of

985
01:07:30.080 --> 01:07:32.640
you, you're going to be free, because you've been holding on

986
01:07:32.640 --> 01:07:37.080
to that for so long. I want you to let it go. So you actually

987
01:07:37.080 --> 01:07:37.920
come up higher.

988
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:43.440
Yeah, we I like it when Jesus used the yeah, but phrase, like

989
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:46.320
we use Yeah, but like, everything's great. Yeah. But

990
01:07:46.640 --> 01:07:48.960
and then we usually putting something bad, Jesus use the

991
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:51.600
opposite. He goes, like, you're like, well, like, I really

992
01:07:51.600 --> 01:07:55.320
screwed up. I'm terrible. He goes, Yeah, but really, like,

993
01:07:55.520 --> 01:07:57.960
you're better than that. Like, let me help you out. Like, let

994
01:07:57.960 --> 01:08:00.720
me let me give you a let me give you a lift, you know, type

995
01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:04.400
thing. So yeah, it's true. But here, let's see. Let's work on

996
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:08.240
this together. And I love that juxtaposition of that. Yeah, but

997
01:08:08.240 --> 01:08:14.280
phrase kind of reminds me of that. Thomas YouTube video, King

998
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:17.960
archetype, put in the app, found the ideas incredibly

999
01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:23.600
helpful. King warrior, magician lover. So you're giving us a

1000
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:26.640
resource. Did you put that up already?

1001
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:36.359
No, I haven't. But But I'd be happy to, in case.

1002
01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:39.479
I guess. I don't know if we can access it later on. But if you

1003
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:42.200
guys want to grab that, I'll give you time to do that.

1004
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:45.160
Oh, I was gonna put it in the app. But if you want to Oh,

1005
01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:47.720
yeah, no, no, no, that's fine. Go ahead and do that. Yeah. Do

1006
01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:51.680
that. That's cool. But I appreciate what you're saying.

1007
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:54.080
And I think you're right. It's helpful to have like some kind

1008
01:08:54.080 --> 01:08:58.160
of something like some kind of idea structure or like, you

1009
01:08:58.160 --> 01:09:01.840
know, instead of just like, go be masculine. It's like, well,

1010
01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:04.960
yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, don't work on yourself. Don't take

1011
01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:07.000
care of your shit. That's like, No, no, no, no, that's not what

1012
01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:09.319
we meant. It's not not what we're talking about. We're not

1013
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:12.920
trying to have a big heavy like departure from this. We're

1014
01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:17.600
having like, this is this is a healthy, good conversation. Be

1015
01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:22.680
lifted up be enlightened by it. So who wants to pray? Who wants

1016
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.319
to pray us out tonight to somebody just give us a good

1017
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:31.040
Mike should because you can be done. He's on the bus. He's

1018
01:09:31.080 --> 01:09:36.560
given us a bit. Pretty good. Okay. All right. Lord Jesus. So

1019
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:40.520
yeah, I thank you that your yoke is easy and your burden is

1020
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:43.960
light. Yeah. And I just pray all the things that the other lie I

1021
01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:46.920
just pray you break off all the lies of the enemy that are

1022
01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:51.439
burdening us that are making us feel inferior and like, not

1023
01:09:51.439 --> 01:09:55.960
enough. And Lord, we're enough because you're enough. Yeah. And

1024
01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:58.600
we were perfectly loved and we don't have to fear or be

1025
01:09:58.600 --> 01:09:59.960
anxious. And Lord, you

1026
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:05.120
have amazing futures for each of these men. I just pray that you bring more hope.

1027
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:12.720
And Lord, I just pray for their future brides, that they would intersect them soon. But in the

1028
01:10:12.720 --> 01:10:17.360
meantime, Lord, that they would become the men that you've intended them to be, that they would

1029
01:10:17.360 --> 01:10:25.440
walk in the fullness of you. And Lord, I just pray for supernatural dreams and visitations.

1030
01:10:26.080 --> 01:10:31.360
And Lord, would you break the chains? I just see chains right now. Anybody who's chained,

1031
01:10:31.360 --> 01:10:36.640
I just pray you break it off in Jesus' name. Just walk in freedom. There is no condemnation.

1032
01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:42.240
You are free. And he who in the sense that's free is free indeed. So don't go back to chaining

1033
01:10:42.240 --> 01:10:49.360
yourself. Walk in freedom. And he has great plans set apart, and you're set apart for a reason.

1034
01:10:49.360 --> 01:10:53.600
And you will find your bride in due season. I just pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

1035
01:10:54.160 --> 01:11:00.080
Amen. Amen. Thank you, Mike. Bye, guys. God bless you. You are all champions.

1036
01:11:01.040 --> 01:11:06.000
I just felt like, Lord, I felt like he wanted me to use that word. You all are champions. So

1037
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:09.600
God bless. Talk to you soon. See you later.