WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.280 Today we're gonna talk about leading three types of people. 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:06.300 You know, when leading teams, 3 00:00:06.300 --> 00:00:10.280 you always have that person who makes your job hard. 4 00:00:10.280 --> 00:00:13.520 You know, they suck the joy out of your leadership. 5 00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:14.360 Perhaps you're thinking, 6 00:00:14.360 --> 00:00:16.760 our team would function so much better 7 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:20.400 if that person would be easier to lead. 8 00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:23.440 You know, in all my studies that I've come across, 9 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:24.500 people often ask me, 10 00:00:24.500 --> 00:00:26.520 as I did my PhD in management leadership, 11 00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:29.220 studying all the best management leadership practices 12 00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:30.160 from around the world, 13 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.120 if you could summarize it down to one key thing, 14 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:36.480 what be one of the major things you could share 15 00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:38.560 in terms of leading and managing people? 16 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.200 And I would say it's self-awareness. 17 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.800 You know, many times, self-awareness solves the issue. 18 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:46.720 Sitting down with someone and saying, 19 00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:49.400 I don't think you represented yourself well 20 00:00:49.400 --> 00:00:51.200 when you did this. 21 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:52.960 You know, sitting down with people and saying, 22 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:55.160 are you aware, John, that when you're in meetings, 23 00:00:55.160 --> 00:00:57.720 you talk over people, you take up all their space, 24 00:00:57.720 --> 00:00:59.580 no one can say anything. 25 00:00:59.580 --> 00:01:01.700 You know, self-awareness usually solves 26 00:01:01.700 --> 00:01:06.700 about 80% of team issues or management leadership issues. 27 00:01:07.020 --> 00:01:09.580 But when we make somebody self-aware, 28 00:01:09.580 --> 00:01:12.940 they may respond in one of three ways. 29 00:01:12.940 --> 00:01:16.260 This is a framework given to us by Henry Cloud, 30 00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:19.200 if you wanna research some more about that. 31 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.580 But what it comes down to is, 32 00:01:20.580 --> 00:01:24.560 what do people do when reality comes to them? 33 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:26.460 Because one of the first jobs as a leader 34 00:01:26.460 --> 00:01:28.260 is to define reality. 35 00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:32.040 We can't call people up until we've called them out. 36 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:34.640 So we gotta call them out in a kind but clear way. 37 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:36.100 We have to define reality. 38 00:01:36.100 --> 00:01:39.700 John, you really are difficult to be in a meeting with. 39 00:01:39.700 --> 00:01:41.780 You don't represent yourself well, 40 00:01:41.780 --> 00:01:44.820 and you're changing the rest of the team's view of you, 41 00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:47.820 and you're creating a wrong view of the team with you. 42 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:51.460 Feedback is not easy to hear for any of us. 43 00:01:51.460 --> 00:01:55.120 So let's categorize, or Henry Cloud categorizes, 44 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:56.880 people's response, and therefore, 45 00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:00.260 how we need to lead them according to that response. 46 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:02.880 So he uses three categories. 47 00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:06.680 He calls it the wise, the foolish, and the evil. 48 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:07.880 Let me say right off the bat, 49 00:02:07.880 --> 00:02:11.039 this is not saying that somebody's always wise, 50 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.520 always foolish, or in some cases, evil, 51 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.360 meaning involves lawyers and the police. 52 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:17.440 We're not saying that. 53 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:20.300 We're saying that in this situation, on this issue, 54 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:25.140 they may be wise, foolish, on very rare occasions, evil. 55 00:02:25.140 --> 00:02:27.440 So here's how we tell them apart. 56 00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:30.500 How do you know someone's in one of those three camps? 57 00:02:30.500 --> 00:02:34.600 And that's got to do with how they own the feedback. 58 00:02:34.600 --> 00:02:37.620 A wise person will own the feedback. 59 00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:42.100 They'll often say, thank you, wow, I had no idea. 60 00:02:42.100 --> 00:02:45.260 They see feedback as a gift, even if it's painful, 61 00:02:45.260 --> 00:02:46.300 but they own it. 62 00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:49.380 They see, I can see that, wow, I was unaware. 63 00:02:49.380 --> 00:02:51.540 Thank you, thank you for telling me. 64 00:02:51.540 --> 00:02:56.000 A foolish person's response to feedback is deflection. 65 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:57.580 They avoid ownership. 66 00:02:57.580 --> 00:03:00.860 It's always someone else's fault, you know? 67 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:03.320 And often these people are the smartest people, 68 00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:06.100 person in the room, and they know that. 69 00:03:06.100 --> 00:03:08.260 They're often very high producers, 70 00:03:08.260 --> 00:03:11.660 but when it comes to truth, they adjust the light 71 00:03:11.660 --> 00:03:12.860 because it hurts their eyes. 72 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:14.400 It's like, oh, it wasn't me. 73 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.860 You don't understand. 74 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:18.580 You know, I've got 30 years of experience. 75 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:20.340 Nobody sent me the email. 76 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:21.980 It's not a big deal. 77 00:03:21.980 --> 00:03:23.260 You know, or they shoot the messenger. 78 00:03:23.260 --> 00:03:24.300 You're always against me. 79 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:27.180 You just don't like me, that type of thing. 80 00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:29.900 So they deny the seriousness of the issue. 81 00:03:29.900 --> 00:03:32.460 They even get angry, and then you can end up 82 00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:34.580 having meeting after meeting. 83 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:36.900 But, you know, they leave you as the leader 84 00:03:36.900 --> 00:03:38.060 feeling kind of hopeless. 85 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:40.300 They just don't hear me. 86 00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:42.060 And the last one is evil. 87 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:44.060 And you know they are because they are threats. 88 00:03:44.060 --> 00:03:47.060 I'm gonna file a lawsuit, you know, whatever it is. 89 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:49.500 So there's an immediate threat. 90 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:52.220 So we know it's wise because they own the feedback. 91 00:03:52.220 --> 00:03:54.100 We know that in this case they're being foolish 92 00:03:54.100 --> 00:03:55.900 because they deflect and don't own it, 93 00:03:55.900 --> 00:03:57.900 and they minimize the issue. 94 00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:01.160 Or they're evil because of threats. 95 00:04:01.160 --> 00:04:05.320 So, you know, you cannot lead each of those three categories 96 00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:07.340 in the same way you would lead yourself. 97 00:04:07.340 --> 00:04:10.580 Each one of those requires a different response. 98 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:13.900 So let's look at, so we've talked about the indicator. 99 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:16.079 Now we'll talk about the strategy. 100 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:20.360 So we said the wise person, indicator, owns the problem. 101 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:23.680 Growth strategy, well the strategy is growth and development. 102 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.960 Okay, well let's give you some training. 103 00:04:25.960 --> 00:04:27.400 Let's put you on the course. 104 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:29.280 Or why don't we get together, you know, 105 00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:32.080 for 15 minutes once a week, talk through how, 106 00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:35.480 or after a meeting, John, let's talk for five minutes, 107 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:37.040 10 minutes, let me give you some feedback 108 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:37.920 about how you did. 109 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.720 You know, John, you may want to use questions 110 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.440 instead of making statements and then rambling on. 111 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.120 Or John, and I've literally helped people do this, 112 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:51.100 John, what you may want to do is start with your end point 113 00:04:51.100 --> 00:04:52.680 and instead of working up to it. 114 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:56.300 This is particularly true of very analytical people. 115 00:04:56.300 --> 00:04:58.840 They want to tell you every single little step to get there 116 00:04:58.840 --> 00:04:59.940 and they'll take 40. 117 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.720 minutes of the meeting, getting to the bottom line, 118 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:06.080 and teaching John to start with the bottom line 119 00:05:06.080 --> 00:05:08.360 and back full as people have questions. 120 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:11.000 So these are growth and development strategies. 121 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.960 And the outcome of this is they become wiser and they grow. 122 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:17.840 So wise person indicator is, own the problem. 123 00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:20.480 Strategy, growth and development outcome, 124 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:22.000 they grow and become wiser. 125 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:24.440 Let's talk about the foolish person. 126 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:27.400 This person is being foolish in this situation. 127 00:05:27.400 --> 00:05:29.120 They deflect, that's the indicator. 128 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:31.840 Strategy, containment. 129 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:33.680 I literally had a meeting with a person 130 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.560 and I sat down with him who was just 131 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.000 incredibly brutal in meetings. 132 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.320 And so I said to him, we'll call him John again. 133 00:05:40.320 --> 00:05:43.520 So I said to him, John, you cannot talk to people like this. 134 00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:45.920 This is not the way, you were just rude, 135 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.360 you were demeaning, you talk over people, 136 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:49.600 you're just, and he said, 137 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:51.560 well, I've got 30 years experience, 138 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:55.440 and this person really was an international speaker 139 00:05:55.440 --> 00:05:57.440 in our industry. 140 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:00.040 And so when I confronted him, he would not hear me. 141 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:01.640 So what was my strategy? 142 00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:02.760 Containment. 143 00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:04.560 And the containment is, okay, John, 144 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:05.880 I'm only gonna let you talk 145 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:07.600 in the last five minutes of the meeting. 146 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.040 Well, that's ridiculous, I'm a senior executive, 147 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:11.240 I shouldn't be treated this way. 148 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:13.400 I'm not asking, I'm telling you this what it is, 149 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:15.440 or you don't come to the meeting. 150 00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:17.680 And you may ask one clarifying question. 151 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.560 He felt, this is demeaning, this is wrong. 152 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:23.880 But over time, and after a month of that, 153 00:06:23.880 --> 00:06:25.800 why are we doing this containment? 154 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:27.400 To create self-awareness. 155 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:29.880 The outcome here is self-awareness. 156 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:32.440 And they go, oh, I see, I get it now. 157 00:06:32.440 --> 00:06:33.800 Thank you, okay, I get it. 158 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:35.960 And now we've turned them into a wise person, 159 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:38.400 and now we can talk about growth and development. 160 00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:42.320 Finally, there's the evil, somebody who's threatening. 161 00:06:42.320 --> 00:06:43.880 And this strategy is protection. 162 00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:46.760 Call the lawyers, call the police, whatever's necessary. 163 00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:48.560 And the outcome here is separation, 164 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:52.120 usually immediate separation. 165 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:56.440 So let's just summarize all of what we've learned. 166 00:06:56.440 --> 00:07:00.640 When we bring people, when truth comes to people, 167 00:07:00.640 --> 00:07:04.840 when we give them feedback, we get one of three responses. 168 00:07:04.840 --> 00:07:07.960 So with a wise person, the indicator is 169 00:07:07.960 --> 00:07:08.800 they own the problem. 170 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.880 Strategy is growth and development. 171 00:07:10.880 --> 00:07:13.560 Outcome is they grow and become wiser. 172 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.440 Foolish person, the indicator is they deflect. 173 00:07:16.440 --> 00:07:18.200 Strategies contain them. 174 00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:21.320 Outcome is to create self-awareness. 175 00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:24.920 We wanna win people, we want people to grow. 176 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:26.840 Evil person, they threaten. 177 00:07:26.840 --> 00:07:28.440 Strategy is protection. 178 00:07:28.440 --> 00:07:30.320 Outcome is separation. 179 00:07:30.320 --> 00:07:33.240 Look, mastering these difficult conversations 180 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.880 does cause us to grow as leaders. 181 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:36.880 But here's the key. 182 00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:39.040 We're looking for what's best for the person, 183 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.520 not because we're irritated or annoyed. 184 00:07:41.520 --> 00:07:43.600 We're looking to help people grow. 185 00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:47.280 We're managing the impact on the team. 186 00:07:47.280 --> 00:07:51.720 And it's only kind when it's direct and clear. 187 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.200 Don't be so soft, the person doesn't even know 188 00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.640 they're being corrected. 189 00:07:55.640 --> 00:07:57.480 You know, I've literally asked a manager once 190 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:00.080 to have, he had to let somebody go. 191 00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:02.360 And then that somebody came back the next morning 192 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:03.880 and I went to the manager and I said, 193 00:08:03.880 --> 00:08:07.120 I thought you, I thought we fired that person. 194 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:08.320 He said, I did. 195 00:08:08.320 --> 00:08:09.440 But he did it so gently, 196 00:08:09.440 --> 00:08:11.040 the person didn't even realize they were fired. 197 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.680 So yes, the kindest thing you can do is be clear. 198 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:16.720 And if you're gonna sit down in that meeting, 199 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.880 here's a power hack. 200 00:08:18.880 --> 00:08:20.360 Don't get into other conversation. 201 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:21.440 How's the family doing? 202 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:22.280 How's your things going? 203 00:08:22.280 --> 00:08:24.600 Don't do the chatty, but just go, 204 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:26.480 hey, John, we have a problem. 205 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.960 And it's got to do with how you are in meetings. 206 00:08:28.960 --> 00:08:30.680 Go straight to the point. 207 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:32.640 Have one or two examples. 208 00:08:32.640 --> 00:08:35.400 Don't exaggerate and don't use generalization. 209 00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:37.600 So John, well, you know, you're hard to work with. 210 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:38.520 That's terrible. 211 00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:39.919 That's unkind. 212 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.200 Be very clear and very specific. 213 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:45.600 John, in meetings, you talk over people. 214 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.040 Be very, you know, this happened last Tuesday 215 00:08:48.040 --> 00:08:50.840 and the Wednesday before that, here are two examples. 216 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.320 And so we can, what we're doing is we're helping people 217 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.320 to move into the right category. 218 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.600 Now that you have a little framework and a template, 219 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.400 you know how to lead all three types of people.