WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.600 All right, welcome guys, we are live going YouTube and X 2 00:00:04.600 --> 00:00:07.300 and we're just doing our weekly team training at Enovo. 3 00:00:07.540 --> 00:00:10.800 And so here we're just gonna keep working through 4 00:00:10.860 --> 00:00:14.620 training our team and potentially future team members 5 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:18.260 on some of our process and how we do things. 6 00:00:19.100 --> 00:00:21.340 We are building, we're a product agency, 7 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:24.340 building a number of different products for ourselves 8 00:00:24.340 --> 00:00:27.200 and then also building products for clients. 9 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:30.240 And so we're leveraging the shape up process, 10 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:32.640 we're highly leveraging like AI, of course. 11 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:34.680 And so we're gonna teach you kind of what we're doing 12 00:00:34.680 --> 00:00:36.840 in real time and you guys can kind of follow along. 13 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:38.660 If you have questions, you can always drop comments. 14 00:00:39.300 --> 00:00:41.400 And then we typically do this for like 20 minutes 15 00:00:41.400 --> 00:00:43.560 and then we'll jump into some team chat after this. 16 00:00:44.620 --> 00:00:46.880 So today I wanna just talk a little bit about 17 00:00:48.460 --> 00:00:51.100 this journey of kind of what I'm calling 18 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:54.040 human deep learning in the age of AI. 19 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.600 And so we now have information, 20 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.840 access to all information, one prompt away. 21 00:01:01.060 --> 00:01:05.319 We essentially have like, AI has a PhD in everything. 22 00:01:05.780 --> 00:01:08.240 It just needs to be told kind of how to, 23 00:01:09.580 --> 00:01:11.960 what to do and you kind of need to give it some guidance. 24 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:14.640 So the skill here is always like, 25 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:16.640 every time AI comes in at one level, 26 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:18.820 like you have to kind of, in your mind, 27 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:20.200 you're now getting a promotion. 28 00:01:20.360 --> 00:01:22.860 So you went from developer to senior developer. 29 00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:26.120 If you're like, it starts to do more of that job. 30 00:01:26.180 --> 00:01:28.720 Now you're like helping more with like product management 31 00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:31.200 or the business side or whatever. 32 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:34.040 Like you're kind of working your way up the ladder 33 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:36.020 and having AI kind of fill in behind you. 34 00:01:36.260 --> 00:01:38.260 So no matter what your task is, 35 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.520 even if it's administrative, like take yourself as like, 36 00:01:41.600 --> 00:01:43.320 okay, I'm an operations person now 37 00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:45.500 and I'm gonna delegate all these things to AI 38 00:01:45.800 --> 00:01:47.680 to help me with my job. 39 00:01:48.100 --> 00:01:51.520 So in that age, when all the information is right here 40 00:01:51.520 --> 00:01:54.800 at our fingertips, how do we actually learn things? 41 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.180 Because now it's like, well, do we need to learn? 42 00:01:58.860 --> 00:02:02.380 And I've been going on this very interesting 43 00:02:02.620 --> 00:02:06.260 but parallel journey and in no way, 44 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:10.460 like do, does this sort of connect with business 45 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:12.160 or I didn't do this because of business, 46 00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:19.540 but I set out in 2021 or 22 to go get my pilot's license. 47 00:02:19.720 --> 00:02:21.140 And so I've always loved flying. 48 00:02:21.140 --> 00:02:22.340 I've always loved aviation. 49 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:27.700 And our daughter was born in April. 50 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.780 And I realized I was like, man, we are, 51 00:02:31.420 --> 00:02:35.460 we're only ever losing margin in your life. 52 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:38.540 So like you get a girlfriend, you get married, 53 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:42.000 you have kids, like your margin just shrinks down 54 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.980 and down and down until you kind of look back. 55 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.720 And like when we were, had our first kid, 56 00:02:46.820 --> 00:02:48.480 we're like, man, what did we do with our time? 57 00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:50.960 Like before we had kids, like we just had all this free time 58 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.960 and we had literally endless amount of margin. 59 00:02:54.380 --> 00:02:56.420 Then we have a second kid and it kind of like builds. 60 00:02:56.540 --> 00:02:58.360 So you kind of lose margin as you go. 61 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:00.140 So I kind of saw that trajectory and I was like, 62 00:03:00.140 --> 00:03:02.820 I'm either going to become a pilot now 63 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.640 and put the time in now and do this, 64 00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:07.320 or it's probably gonna be when like our girls are 18. 65 00:03:07.420 --> 00:03:09.620 And I was like, why would you wait all that time? 66 00:03:09.820 --> 00:03:11.280 And I also like to think about things. 67 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.500 This is sort of like a tangent, but also somewhat related. 68 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.680 Like finding topics and interests and hobbies 69 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.740 is extremely powerful because one, 70 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.340 it gives you time to reset all the, you know, 71 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:26.620 and if you're trying to build things like on a computer, 72 00:03:26.940 --> 00:03:28.840 try not to make your hobby building 73 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:30.380 slightly different things on a computer. 74 00:03:30.460 --> 00:03:30.960 If you know what I'm saying, 75 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:32.360 like do something a little bit different 76 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:33.620 kind of stretches you. 77 00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:36.020 And so it's healthy for a number of reasons, 78 00:03:36.300 --> 00:03:38.640 but I didn't have a hobby for a while. 79 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:41.840 And I, that was very unhealthy. 80 00:03:41.860 --> 00:03:43.720 And I was like, I don't need a hobby, works my hobby. 81 00:03:43.720 --> 00:03:46.060 And that was kind of my line. 82 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:48.180 And I kind of wore it like a badge of honor, 83 00:03:48.420 --> 00:03:49.840 but that's not a smart thing to do. 84 00:03:49.880 --> 00:03:52.320 So you need a hobby, something different. 85 00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:55.000 And I would also advise you, like sometimes in business, 86 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:56.820 there's like, oh, I'm gonna become a pilot. 87 00:03:56.940 --> 00:04:00.020 It's gonna teach me how to like run a business better. 88 00:04:00.100 --> 00:04:00.340 Right? 89 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:02.780 Like, no, that's putting like stupid pressure on yourself. 90 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:04.600 Like just enjoy it for what it is. 91 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:07.620 I'm not trying to like, however, in this case, 92 00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:10.020 there are some similarities I'm gonna like point out today 93 00:04:10.260 --> 00:04:12.660 that I have learned in that process. 94 00:04:12.660 --> 00:04:16.920 So one, like this is a tangent, but have a hobby for sure. 95 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.579 That's something that's healthy to do, but also enjoy. 96 00:04:21.700 --> 00:04:23.940 And also like when you're picking something, 97 00:04:24.260 --> 00:04:25.800 I always kind of ask myself, 98 00:04:26.660 --> 00:04:28.680 like what's the thing I would be doing? 99 00:04:28.960 --> 00:04:30.060 What's the hobby I would have? 100 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.380 Let's say if I had like sold my business, 101 00:04:33.380 --> 00:04:36.220 I made tens of millions of dollars in the bank. 102 00:04:36.220 --> 00:04:37.800 And I'm just kind of like sitting on a Monday, 103 00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:39.300 like what would I actually want to go do? 104 00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:42.160 Well, for work, I'd like to be doing exactly 105 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.000 what I'm doing today. 106 00:04:43.220 --> 00:04:46.040 Like building cool products, working with awesome people, 107 00:04:46.860 --> 00:04:48.260 awesome clients, awesome team members, 108 00:04:48.380 --> 00:04:51.360 and then coaching and teaching our process. 109 00:04:51.440 --> 00:04:53.260 It's like, oh, that's what we're doing right now. 110 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:56.140 And if for like fun and a hobby, like I'd probably be flying. 111 00:04:56.280 --> 00:04:58.820 Like even if I had enough money to buy a private jet, 112 00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:00.000 I would still want to go learn. 113 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.460 how to fly my own plane. 114 00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:02.840 Like there's just something really cool about it. 115 00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:05.880 So it's not for everybody, um, but it is exciting for me. 116 00:05:05.900 --> 00:05:08.940 So I was like, well, that stuff sometimes is a lot more, it's 117 00:05:08.940 --> 00:05:10.080 a lot closer than you think. 118 00:05:10.080 --> 00:05:13.420 So like, I don't want to wait until I'm like in my fifties to go then start 119 00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:15.060 doing, living the dream, if that makes sense. 120 00:05:16.020 --> 00:05:17.160 So that's a whole nother talk. 121 00:05:17.820 --> 00:05:21.260 But the point is I went and I was like, cool, I'm going to go be a pilot. 122 00:05:21.440 --> 00:05:23.220 So started out like, this is great. 123 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:24.580 There's a lot to learn. 124 00:05:24.820 --> 00:05:27.820 I did a first discovery flight and I kind of got like, okay, 125 00:05:27.820 --> 00:05:28.980 this is the really fun thing. 126 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:30.180 It's, it's really fun. 127 00:05:30.460 --> 00:05:33.800 Um, it gets a little hard, but like, I need to kind of navigate 128 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:36.080 like how, um, I'm learning this. 129 00:05:36.080 --> 00:05:39.340 And then I started to do some of the book learning and stuff along the way. 130 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:43.340 And for two or three years, I'll say for the first three, three or four 131 00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:46.960 years of doing this, I kind of just went in these cycles of like getting 132 00:05:46.960 --> 00:05:49.580 kind of good and then I would leave it for like a few months and I would 133 00:05:49.580 --> 00:05:53.420 come back and try to like build up that skill again, and then I was 134 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:56.680 kind of like enjoying the fun parts of it, but not actually doing the real work. 135 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.260 I wasn't actually going deep enough into the learning to make forward progress. 136 00:06:01.840 --> 00:06:05.380 And so this year I was like, I got to finish this by the end of the year, 137 00:06:05.380 --> 00:06:07.100 because now it's going on like four years. 138 00:06:07.460 --> 00:06:11.400 And if you were trying to like become a private pilot from not having any 139 00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:15.380 knowledge to like, you know, passing your check ride, you can, you could 140 00:06:15.380 --> 00:06:16.960 technically do that in 30 days. 141 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:18.420 Other people that do it in a couple of months. 142 00:06:19.320 --> 00:06:21.340 Um, it's, it's not four years. 143 00:06:21.380 --> 00:06:25.860 It's definitely not like an entire, uh, you know, four year degree. 144 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:27.640 It's, this is something you can do in a couple of months. 145 00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:29.120 I've just extended it so long. 146 00:06:29.460 --> 00:06:33.340 Um, and of course I'm doing it as a hobby, so justify not doing it at certain times. 147 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:35.080 So anyway, this is where we are. 148 00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:38.020 So this year I decided I was going to go deep, going to figure this stuff out. 149 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:41.200 And so when you get into this, there's this like really fun. 150 00:06:41.880 --> 00:06:43.440 Um, book called the far aim. 151 00:06:43.460 --> 00:06:47.400 And it's this massive textbook with like tiny little prints of all the FAA 152 00:06:47.580 --> 00:06:52.160 regulations and basically how to fly a plane and like best practices and all 153 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.640 this stuff, you basically have to learn a lot of these different things. 154 00:06:54.640 --> 00:06:58.180 Um, in addition to that, I like bought these note cards. 155 00:06:58.260 --> 00:07:03.080 I have 350 note cards here that I'm like aggressively trying 156 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:04.700 to memorize in the next two weeks. 157 00:07:05.200 --> 00:07:08.760 Um, and so all that to say, like, I went deep and I, and I would want to be able 158 00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:11.820 to like pick up any note card and answer a question they have this thing. 159 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:16.100 Um, when you become a pilot, you don't just take a multiple choice test and 160 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:17.980 then they hand over like your license. 161 00:07:18.440 --> 00:07:21.720 That would be terrifying if you were flying with abuse because it has to be 162 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:26.980 regulated, um, the FAA and people there have delegate have to basically say, Hey, 163 00:07:26.980 --> 00:07:28.480 you are approved and we trust you. 164 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.040 And now the public can fly with you and we say that you're a safe pilot. 165 00:07:32.200 --> 00:07:37.400 So I love that idea of like in the age of like hacking and finding AI to like 166 00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:40.100 do different things, like this was a very concrete thing. 167 00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:42.100 You either are a pilot or you're not like you either get 168 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:43.060 the license or you didn't. 169 00:07:43.320 --> 00:07:46.620 And so it's very, um, black and white and there's no hacks. 170 00:07:46.940 --> 00:07:47.940 There is no scheming. 171 00:07:48.080 --> 00:07:48.660 There's no hacks. 172 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:51.400 There's no, you just got to either go deep and learn the thing 173 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:53.020 or you, you didn't pass it at all. 174 00:07:53.520 --> 00:07:57.160 So, um, I was like, I decided I'm just going to go deep and actually figure this out. 175 00:07:57.180 --> 00:07:59.460 So I wanted to show you this little graph that I found. 176 00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:00.420 I thought it was pretty helpful. 177 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:05.040 Um, this is pretty true and you can apply this to pretty much any, um, thing. 178 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:07.360 So the, you got experience and time. 179 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.880 So as time goes on, like you're like, yay, this looks like fun. 180 00:08:09.940 --> 00:08:11.900 Like, and then you're like, Oh, this is kind of hard. 181 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:14.500 And then you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to keep going. 182 00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:15.000 And you're like, cool. 183 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:15.980 I think I got it. 184 00:08:15.980 --> 00:08:17.260 Or no, I definitely didn't. 185 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:17.520 Okay. 186 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:18.480 I don't know anything. 187 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:22.200 And then it kind of creeps up all the way to like, okay, I think I've 188 00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:24.980 actually arrived at something that's like, as time goes on, I've 189 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:26.500 actually hit that experience. 190 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:29.340 And this year we did this right. 191 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:34.039 With, um, with, uh, our product, you know, uh, management. 192 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.380 So we, we, uh, we were doing shape up. 193 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:37.520 We all read the book. 194 00:08:37.640 --> 00:08:38.500 We're like, this is pretty good. 195 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:41.120 I was like showing people, teaching our team. 196 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:42.500 I was teaching clients. 197 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:46.220 I was, you know, uh, basically like, Hey, we've got it. 198 00:08:46.220 --> 00:08:47.480 And we're coaching people on it. 199 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:48.380 We're so good at this. 200 00:08:48.660 --> 00:08:52.880 And then we had Ryan Singer come in for a few sessions with us. 201 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.380 And he first, he was like, we're going to do a three hour session. 202 00:08:55.540 --> 00:08:57.380 So I was like, okay, that's, that's intense. 203 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.240 So like immediately, you know, in our mind, we're like, Oh, let's 204 00:09:00.680 --> 00:09:02.680 like sketch something out in 30 minutes. 205 00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:04.120 Let's do something in 45 minutes. 206 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.520 And so he was like, let's go and do this one tiny piece and 207 00:09:06.520 --> 00:09:07.600 spend three hours on it. 208 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.420 And so immediately our whole. 209 00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:13.120 Uh, paradigm kind of shifted as far as like, how did, like, we actually 210 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:18.720 have to go very deep and we got very, very, um, like meaningful movements, 211 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.600 but what we would have done maybe, you know, in an hour, he was taking maybe 212 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.820 multiple three hour sessions to go through and we're like, wow, there's 213 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:28.360 like a different way of doing this. 214 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:32.140 That is slowing down, actually going really, really, really deep 215 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.160 into this one product feature. 216 00:09:34.380 --> 00:09:37.780 And that's when we kind of realized like, Oh, we, we thought we were 217 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:40.040 like, you know, an eight or nine out of 10. 218 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:42.860 What we didn't realize is the scale was from zero to a hundred. 219 00:09:43.620 --> 00:09:47.440 So we actually were like, you know, eight or 9% there. 220 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:50.140 We weren't like, you know, uh, 80, 90% there. 221 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.500 It was, we were off by like a huge multiple. 222 00:09:52.660 --> 00:09:57.540 And so as we go to deepen these subjects there, it's also kind of fun 223 00:09:57.540 --> 00:10:00.000 because the process actually gets interesting and fun. 224 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.860 And when you kind of learn that craft and you get a little bit curious about it. 225 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:07.960 And so, um, same thing, like as, as I've gone through the pilot stuff, 226 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:10.900 like I'm actually going deep now and I'm actually learning a lot more 227 00:10:10.900 --> 00:10:15.580 about weather patterns and regulations and how, like the mechanics of work. 228 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.420 And you kind of, you go deep enough and it's not just kind of memorizing, like 229 00:10:19.420 --> 00:10:21.020 here's the definition of this thing. 230 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:25.480 It's like, Hmm, I wonder how a carburetor works and going on YouTube and watching 231 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:30.180 like a 45 minute video, the debrief, like diagram, like, how does a carburetor work? 232 00:10:30.520 --> 00:10:32.380 And this can be applied for everything. 233 00:10:32.380 --> 00:10:36.660 Like if you get curious, uh, let's say you're taking on a new technology. 234 00:10:36.760 --> 00:10:41.560 We're, we're kind of delving into this world of, of rag, uh, you know, 235 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.140 um, agents, uh, for, for some AI things. 236 00:10:45.140 --> 00:10:48.700 And so like, I've been going deep on these deep dives, like for 237 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:50.200 learning what this is, how does it work? 238 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:51.060 What are the mechanics? 239 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.380 It's not enough to just like prompt AI to go build the thing. 240 00:10:54.380 --> 00:10:55.940 And then like, wonder why it doesn't work. 241 00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:56.560 242 00:10:57.140 --> 00:11:00.520 Um, it's going deep and you actually understanding it because once you 243 00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:05.420 understand it, you can then instruct the AI to go, uh, and be extremely powerful. 244 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:06.600 Um, with that. 245 00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:11.480 So, um, it's basically getting away from the center surface level area. 246 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:13.880 Cause we can all be sort of good at a lot of things today. 247 00:11:13.880 --> 00:11:16.400 And with AI, it kind of make up a lot of the difference. 248 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:20.620 Um, but if you go deep and you learn these different, um, processes, you 249 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:22.980 actually learn how to think about the problem differently. 250 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:27.420 And, um, especially if you're doing a feature or a bug, you're really 251 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:31.400 learning from a client, like what really is the problem that's happening here. 252 00:11:31.560 --> 00:11:32.480 We're going way deep. 253 00:11:32.520 --> 00:11:36.200 It's not just that you need a button here and you want this, like, uh, you know, 254 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:40.480 this project requirements stock built, kind of going a few layers deeper as we 255 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.500 call founder therapy and kind of understanding what does this person, 256 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.180 what, what does this customer need? 257 00:11:45.300 --> 00:11:46.780 What are they trying to actually accomplish? 258 00:11:47.060 --> 00:11:49.020 What is the outcome they're looking for? 259 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.960 Um, and then how do we get there as fast as we can with this most simple 260 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.420 and most elegant solution, uh, possibly. 261 00:11:55.520 --> 00:12:00.620 Cause typically as you learn and you actually understand this, it's being 262 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:03.360 able to turn around and actually explain it to someone else that's 263 00:12:03.380 --> 00:12:05.400 really means you understand it. 264 00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:08.320 So having to teach someone this thing. 265 00:12:08.560 --> 00:12:11.060 So, uh, that's why we're doing training here, having different 266 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:13.340 people jump on and, and, and train as well. 267 00:12:13.660 --> 00:12:18.460 And, um, I think that when you can kind of explain it to someone else, 268 00:12:18.460 --> 00:12:20.820 you really do have mastery of it. 269 00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:23.480 Um, and so, uh, there's a difference. 270 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.140 There's two tests that happen when you're doing your pilot's license. 271 00:12:26.180 --> 00:12:30.040 There's this, um, knowledge test, which is you go into a testing room, you've 272 00:12:30.040 --> 00:12:32.720 got two or three hours and you answer a hundred questions, it's all multiple 273 00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.640 choice and just get a grade back. 274 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:38.680 Um, so I studied a bunch, memorized everything, and that's very much like 275 00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:42.420 this kind of rote memorization, uh, technique where you just, you know, 276 00:12:42.420 --> 00:12:46.260 the definition you plug in the, the, you know, uh, response and you just 277 00:12:46.260 --> 00:12:47.340 see if you got it true or false. 278 00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:48.400 I mean, you got it correct. 279 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:53.460 Um, when you do the final check ride, you do this thing called an oral exam. 280 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:58.480 So you sit down, uh, with this, uh, instructor and for two or three 281 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:04.740 hours, they just interview you and you can, it's just, you know, uh, it, you 282 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.840 can use a book and you can reference material if you need to, but you need 283 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:09.700 to really actually understand this. 284 00:13:09.700 --> 00:13:11.540 It's not just giving back a definition. 285 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.000 It's going deep and they'll kind of in a true interview fashion. 286 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.120 If you kind of will kind of pull it one thread and kind of something seems 287 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:23.740 shaky, they'll just keep going deeper down until see how deep you can go to 288 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:24.920 understand how this thing actually works. 289 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:29.640 And a lot of the times, like you've, if you've heard of, uh, uh, Elon Musk, 290 00:13:29.660 --> 00:13:31.900 we'll talk about going back to first principles. 291 00:13:31.900 --> 00:13:35.400 If you can understand sort of the first principles of something, and here's 292 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.120 why, you know, a wing creates lift and it actually keeps you in the air. 293 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:44.520 If you kind of understand, um, how this, um, uh, Bernoulli's effect works. 294 00:13:44.520 --> 00:13:49.000 For example, you kind of get down to these sort of basic principles, then 295 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.960 everything else, you can kind of build that on top of that foundation. 296 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.100 And we did this a lot with, with the product side. 297 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:58.680 Like once we kind of learned these tools, we knew how to do framing and 298 00:13:58.680 --> 00:14:00.020 we knew how breadboarding worked. 299 00:14:00.020 --> 00:14:05.160 And we went really deep on the process as a team, and we weren't afraid to 300 00:14:05.160 --> 00:14:09.980 spend a lot of time to what maybe at the beginning seems like C like a small 301 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:10.540 progress. 302 00:14:10.940 --> 00:14:10.940 303 00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:15.480 Um, and so taking that time to, to invest in ourselves, to go deep and to learn 304 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:19.660 this, um, these are the skills that like, that, that, that is going to make you 305 00:14:19.660 --> 00:14:23.420 extremely competitive in today's market because everybody has access to AI, but 306 00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:27.280 I guarantee you, everybody's willing to just go surface level and you go deep on 307 00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:27.580 something. 308 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.180 It puts you in a totally different, um, puts you like leaps and bounds, like 309 00:14:31.180 --> 00:14:32.220 ahead of everybody else. 310 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.860 Um, because you both have access to the same AI tools, but if you have that 311 00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:40.800 knowledge and that, um, the, you know, years of experience and you are actually 312 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:44.420 a senior developer and you've, and you've, uh, led other developers and you've 313 00:14:44.420 --> 00:14:48.860 reviewed other work, you can go so much further, um, to leverage AI than if 314 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.400 someone's just, just kind of vibe, like a founder's vibe, coding an app. 315 00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:53.120 Right. 316 00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:56.680 Um, so, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of the main thing. 317 00:14:56.680 --> 00:14:57.600 I just want to skim through here. 318 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.000 See if I had, um, any. 319 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:08.100 other things I wanted to share, but yeah, just basically don't be afraid. I was calling this 320 00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:13.700 human deep learning and we talk about deep work. So I think these sessions are going to happen 321 00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:19.300 inside of deep work is where you get the deep learning. It's not a scrolling on your phone, 322 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:26.100 seeing a reel about some new tech stack thing or whatever, and then that's how you learn something. 323 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:32.260 That is surface level, of course. It's watching the 45 minute deep dive. It's watching the three 324 00:15:32.780 --> 00:15:38.000 hour deep dive video on this. I remember when we first got into AI and we first got into how 325 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.980 to leverage it in our business. Sahil from Gumroad had put out some three and four hour 326 00:15:44.020 --> 00:15:48.440 live streamed videos where he just went piece by piece and walked through how they did their 327 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.480 actual work. And most people are not going to invest three or four hours in that. And I did, 328 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.120 I took time, I watched their whole thing and I learned how they were actually doing it in 329 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:02.200 their company. So don't be afraid of some deep work sessions, spending some time on the stuff. 330 00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:08.100 If you are going into a new topic, a new tech stack, take the time, figure out how it actually 331 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:12.820 works, figure out people are leveraging it. What's the pros, cons of it? Become an expert 332 00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:19.860 in that thing. We're diving into the world of like rag AI solutions and that's something I'm 333 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:25.620 going deep in. And I'm also using AI to teach me things. So that's also very helpful is 334 00:16:26.660 --> 00:16:32.540 having it ask dumb questions. You can ask it dumb questions. You may not ask in a comment somewhere, 335 00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:37.100 you may not ask it to a colleague, but you can ask AI some pretty dumb questions. 336 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:43.440 If you're a fan of The Office, it's Michael Scott who's trying to figure out what a surplus is and 337 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.140 either like, hey, explain it to me like I'm seven. And the accountant explains it and he's like, 338 00:16:47.140 --> 00:16:53.740 I don't understand, explain it to me like I'm five. And that same thing is like, you haven't 339 00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:58.140 dumb it down for you until you're like, okay, I get it now. I understand the core things. 340 00:16:59.420 --> 00:17:04.660 And a lot of the times, when you're going into a new topic that you're not familiar with, 341 00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:14.140 it is just learning the language. That is the main thing. One of the concepts I learned was 342 00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:21.380 when you're learning a new topic, if you can just learn the definitions and the language 343 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.400 and the vocabulary of that topic, it all of a sudden kind of unlocks everything. 344 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:32.100 So just push through. It sounds all like jargon. It sounds very confusing at first, 345 00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:35.840 but when you kind of get push paths and you go deep, you are going to kind of start to learn 346 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:42.400 things at a new level. So yeah, I would say don't be afraid of going deep. 347 00:17:44.260 --> 00:17:57.780 Give your time. If you're planning out a new feature or some new tech, a new build of something 348 00:17:57.780 --> 00:18:03.740 and you don't have mastery of that topic, that's something that's part of the context of this. 349 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:08.800 It's not necessarily a problem, but it's something that's worth mentioning. And don't assume that, 350 00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:13.120 like, oh, I'm just going to kind of fake it and I'll figure it out. I don't want to be found out 351 00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:18.200 or embarrassed that I don't understand this thing. If you're taking on a four-week or two, 352 00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:22.880 four-week project on something and you don't understand how a certain technology works, 353 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:28.060 let's build a week or two in there to become an expert in that thing or at least get a 354 00:18:28.060 --> 00:18:33.800 substantial amount of information into it, because that is part of the learning process. 355 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:38.920 Someone has to go and dig in and figure this out on behalf of the client or whoever's funding the 356 00:18:38.840 --> 00:18:46.820 feature. And so I just want to make sure that we don't, one, we have an honest representation of 357 00:18:46.820 --> 00:18:57.560 ourselves as far as if I was sort of skimming the flight textbooks, if I was sort of doing that and 358 00:18:58.280 --> 00:19:04.940 I was like, hey, guys, who on the team wants to go for a flight with me? I don't exactly have my 359 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:11.260 license, but I get the gist. It's going to be fine. It's all good when you're working on a 360 00:19:11.260 --> 00:19:15.580 project. I don't know if I'd get in a plane with you and be thousands of feet in the air. 361 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:24.900 So it's one of those things where just being honest and kind of real honest look at where we 362 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:31.780 are, what do I actually understand? And I've always taken the viewpoint that we are all 363 00:19:31.860 --> 00:19:37.780 learning. No one's actually landing at mastery of building software. Because as soon as you hit it, 364 00:19:37.780 --> 00:19:41.780 it's just another level. There's just always going to be another level. Even in running a 365 00:19:41.780 --> 00:19:45.160 business, you're like, cool, I'm going to build my business and I make six figures in a year. 366 00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:49.060 I'm crushing it. Now I'm going to try to make a million dollars in a year. And as soon as you do 367 00:19:49.100 --> 00:19:52.660 that, immediately it's like, let's try to do five. And if you're like, do five, then you're like, 368 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:58.440 let's do 10, 10, let's do 50, 100. And just like, it never ends. So there's no one who's 369 00:19:58.760 --> 00:20:00.000 mastering business. There's no one who's like, 370 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.820 mastering building apps. There's no one who's like even mastering flying a plane. Every single time 371 00:20:05.820 --> 00:20:10.360 you fly, you're learning something. It's just being in this mindset of always improving, 372 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:18.140 always refining and going deep. And the sooner you just deal with all, overcome all that 373 00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:24.200 resistance and just decide, okay, I'm going to go deep and just start diving into the three hour 374 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:29.940 videos and watching the lecture and actually doing it and prototyping and all that yourself, 375 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:35.880 that's when you kind of learn, it kind of fast tracks you on that path of actually 376 00:20:36.060 --> 00:20:39.860 getting substantial knowledge in there. Because a lot of times we can just keep avoiding it. 377 00:20:41.100 --> 00:20:45.600 And we're like, I'll just kind of learn enough. And I kind of was like just enough to get by. 378 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.000 And I had this mindset for years. And it works in school, whole nother topic. But this is why school 379 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:59.760 is a horrible idea in general, especially college, I wouldn't recommend it. But I don't think I 380 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:07.000 probably go to school, I mean, to a college, because this is something that's so easy to just 381 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:13.280 remember and regurgitate knowledge and not actually have deep understanding or learning sort 382 00:21:13.280 --> 00:21:18.540 of the life skills that you need. And so I was able to skim through school that way. And that's 383 00:21:18.540 --> 00:21:24.400 what's really fun about learning how to fly is you can't have any hacks, like you can't hack this. 384 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:31.060 There's no shortcuts, there's no scheming, there's no like workarounds. And AI can only get you that 385 00:21:31.060 --> 00:21:35.660 far. Like I have AI, I'm using it to help me like quiz and stuff, but it's pretty dumb. Like 386 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:43.200 you'll quickly realize that it's knowledge. And once I'm now like able to correct chat GPT on 387 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:47.380 like some of the regulations, now I'm like, I think I'm starting to understand this. 388 00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:55.520 And I'll like question certain requirements. So that's kind of maybe how like what going deep 389 00:21:55.520 --> 00:22:01.960 actually means. So that's what I encourage you, don't be afraid to jump in. Again, kind of look 390 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:08.100 at, you could probably plot this out, this little graph on a lot of different topics. And of course, 391 00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:14.500 the whole thing is a fun journey, I'll say, but you know, most people are kind of stuck in this 392 00:22:15.210 --> 00:22:21.950 level. And they're kind of stuck in this sort of, you know, 50, 60% experience. And this is where 393 00:22:21.950 --> 00:22:27.090 like sort of vibe coding lives in this world is people like jump on replit, they jump on lovable, 394 00:22:27.550 --> 00:22:31.530 they throw a couple prompts in and like, hey, I just built an app in a weekend. And there's some 395 00:22:31.530 --> 00:22:37.850 value to it, like amazing that we can do that today. But actually building software and learning 396 00:22:39.250 --> 00:22:43.430 how to build a product that people will pay for and use and how do you get them to come back and 397 00:22:43.630 --> 00:22:48.670 engage in the app? And how do they actually solve your users problems? And how do you market it? 398 00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:52.930 How do you sell it? How do you price it? Like, that's actually what's involved in sort of 399 00:22:52.930 --> 00:22:58.170 building an app or building a product, you know, in 2025. And yes, AI can help you with all those 400 00:22:58.130 --> 00:23:04.570 things. But it is kind of this extra knowledge of going kind of deep on these topics. And of course, 401 00:23:04.570 --> 00:23:10.830 just doing it and kind of learning on the job. So let's help maybe a bit of a ramble, but I wanted 402 00:23:10.830 --> 00:23:16.230 to share this. It's very real this week, because I'm in book learning, studying, learning a lot 403 00:23:16.810 --> 00:23:24.490 to try to get this checkride done behind me. So awesome. We'll switch over, 404 00:23:24.770 --> 00:23:27.750 jump into some discussion here. But thanks for joining us. And we'll see you on the next one.