WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.880 Okay, all right, so what we're going to cover today, I mean, first of all, this is the last 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:12.120 VIP session, guys. 3 00:00:12.120 --> 00:00:17.120 So I want to welcome all of you, congratulate you for making it through the entire week. 4 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.840 You guys have gotten a double dose, like everybody in a normal challenge receives certain training, 5 00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:24.040 but you guys got double that. 6 00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:29.320 So I hope you see how much you've learned. 7 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:33.200 And now that you have the videos, the nice part is since you're in VIP, you get them 8 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:34.760 for 90 days. 9 00:00:34.760 --> 00:00:39.760 So you can continue to go back and look at your own videos for 90 full days. 10 00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:47.720 Let me see if I can find out what is going on here. 11 00:00:47.720 --> 00:00:49.960 And let me share my screen. 12 00:00:49.960 --> 00:01:07.040 All right, uspto.gov and let's do a search. 13 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:08.040 Share my screen. 14 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:09.040 Ta-da! 15 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.040 All right. 16 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:17.680 They changed the front page. 17 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:18.680 It was different. 18 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:20.560 When we started the challenge, it was different. 19 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:22.080 So they changed the front page. 20 00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:27.880 Okay, so one of the things that before I jump into this, how many people here have logos 21 00:01:27.880 --> 00:01:32.640 for their companies by show of hands, like physical hands or virtual hands? 22 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:38.400 Because if nobody has logos and nobody's interested in logos, then I won't go through this. 23 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:46.200 But I want to see if people are interested in learning how to actually search for logos. 24 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:47.200 We got a hand. 25 00:01:47.720 --> 00:01:48.720 Natalie is interested. 26 00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:50.800 Is anybody else interested in learning about how to search logos? 27 00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:53.200 Because I could just send Natalie the video. 28 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:54.200 I need one. 29 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:55.200 Yes. 30 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:56.200 Heather does. 31 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:57.200 Tony does. 32 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:58.200 Okay. 33 00:01:58.200 --> 00:01:59.200 All right. 34 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.200 So there are a few people that are interested in logos. 35 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.200 Okay. 36 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:03.200 Got it. 37 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:04.480 Yeah, we had a connection issue. 38 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.440 So we just fixed it and we're all live now. 39 00:02:07.440 --> 00:02:08.440 Okay, cool. 40 00:02:08.440 --> 00:02:09.440 All right. 41 00:02:09.440 --> 00:02:11.480 So I'm going to show you guys how to actually search P2. 42 00:02:11.480 --> 00:02:12.480 All right, cool. 43 00:02:12.480 --> 00:02:16.480 I'm going to show you all how to actually search logos on the United States Patent and Trademark 44 00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:17.760 Office. 45 00:02:17.760 --> 00:02:21.920 This is kind of different. 46 00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:22.920 So let's do this. 47 00:02:22.920 --> 00:02:23.920 I go to trademarks. 48 00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:24.920 I go to searching. 49 00:02:24.920 --> 00:02:28.080 Let me wait till you can see it. 50 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:35.080 So start off the beginning, go to trademarks, searching, come down here to search. 51 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:36.400 Okay. 52 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.000 You are only going for logos. 53 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.680 You are only going to use this one here, the design mark search. 54 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:44.680 All right. 55 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.840 So you can use this other one, but you need to know how to type Boolean logic. 56 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.440 I'm not going to try to train you guys in Boolean logic now, especially on the fifth 57 00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:53.440 day. 58 00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:56.760 It'll just fry your brain. 59 00:02:56.760 --> 00:03:01.120 So what I'm going to do is show you right here. 60 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:02.120 Structured is what you're going to click. 61 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:03.120 All right. 62 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:10.160 When you click that, you're going to use as the field, if you just go down slowly, you'll 63 00:03:10.160 --> 00:03:13.520 see description of mark is one there. 64 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.920 Let me show you another one that you can use. 65 00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:18.760 Description of mark is a good one. 66 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:24.040 Design code, you could use that, but what most of the time I use is design description. 67 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:25.040 Okay. 68 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:28.880 That's usually the one that I'm going to use. 69 00:03:28.880 --> 00:03:37.000 So if I do design description, then I type in what exactly is it about the design? 70 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:38.280 Okay. 71 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:39.520 Something that's distinguished. 72 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.880 So let me do this. 73 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:48.240 You guys can unmute right now and let's kind of, let's say you, let's create a logo. 74 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:49.720 Let's just create a logo together. 75 00:03:49.720 --> 00:03:54.800 So just like we were running a real company, let's create a logo together. 76 00:03:54.800 --> 00:04:00.720 So what might be some of the features of the logo that you'd want to use? 77 00:04:00.720 --> 00:04:01.720 Circle. 78 00:04:01.720 --> 00:04:02.720 A circle. 79 00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:03.720 Okay. 80 00:04:03.720 --> 00:04:07.080 So we got, I'm going to type it in the chat. 81 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:13.000 So we know that one of the features of the design is going to be a circle. 82 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.000 What else? 83 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.000 What else should we put in there guys? 84 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:21.120 Different people that, you know, just give me other objects that you want in the design 85 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:22.480 that you're creating. 86 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.680 This is just like you're creating your own company right now. 87 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.000 It's just, this is exactly what we would do in our own company. 88 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.520 A purple elephant. 89 00:04:32.520 --> 00:04:34.800 Okay. 90 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:35.800 There's an elephant. 91 00:04:36.520 --> 00:04:37.520 Let's do an elephant. 92 00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:38.520 So we got purple. 93 00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:39.520 We got an elephant. 94 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:40.520 What was that Heather? 95 00:04:40.520 --> 00:04:41.520 Under a tree. 96 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:42.520 Under a tree. 97 00:04:42.520 --> 00:04:43.520 All right. 98 00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:48.080 I'm going to try to take one thing from each person. 99 00:04:48.080 --> 00:04:52.540 So we've got, Heather has a circle, Tony has an elephant. 100 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:55.960 What else do we want in this logo that has a circle and an elephant? 101 00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:58.920 Anybody want to offer something? 102 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:00.040 I'll take one more thing. 103 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.000 Anything? 104 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:02.000 Tree. 105 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.000 Come on, David, the logo man. 106 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.000 You got anything? 107 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.000 Nobody's got an idea? 108 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:23.000 And just so you guys understand, coming up with a logo is a tough thing to do for a company. 109 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.000 It really is. 110 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.000 Cigar. 111 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.000 A cigar. 112 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.000 Oh, I like this. 113 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.000 Yes. 114 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.000 A cigar. 115 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.000 We got a circle with an elephant and a cigar. 116 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000 All right. 117 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000 Now we're talking. 118 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.000 Now we're talking. 119 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:38.000 It just got interesting. 120 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.000 Okay. 121 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.000 Here we go. 122 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:47.000 So we got in the design description, we're going to put in elephant, and I'm going to 123 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.000 put, I can't think of that there's any trademarks out there that have an elephant and a cigar, 124 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.000 but we're going to look anyway. 125 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.000 So let's start out. 126 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.000 Let's do this cigar. 127 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.000 So if I were doing like a trademark search for this logo, and I know it's going to be 128 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:07.000 a circle, an elephant and a cigar in it, I would start out with the things that are most 129 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000 distinguished. 130 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.000 Like if I did a trademark search for a circle, there are going to be so many results. 131 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.000 It'll be very hard to like weed through them all. 132 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:22.000 So I would start out with the most unique part, like a cigar. 133 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.000 Definitely. 134 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:24.000 Elephant, definitely. 135 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:30.000 So when I did a search, I would start by including both, and then I would search for each one 136 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.000 individually. 137 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:38.000 So I'm pretty sure, I haven't pushed this button yet, but I'm like pretty sure there's 138 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.000 no logos out there with an elephant and a cigar. 139 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:45.000 It's going to make me laugh if there is, but no way. 140 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:47.000 What? 141 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.000 Okay. 142 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:51.000 I've got to see this. 143 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.000 All right. 144 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.000 So this is what you're going to do. 145 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.000 You're going to click image list next. 146 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.000 Get out. 147 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.000 No way. 148 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:04.000 There are trademark logos with elephants and cigars. 149 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.000 That is crazy. 150 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.000 I never knew this was the case. 151 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.000 Wow. 152 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.000 Okay. 153 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:19.000 Well, apparently the rhino is the same category as elephant. 154 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.000 So they give you rhinos with cigars. 155 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.000 They've got giraffes with cigars. 156 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.000 This is great. 157 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:30.000 Okay. 158 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.000 So I just showed you. 159 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:35.000 Oh my gosh. 160 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:36.000 Look at this one here. 161 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:43.000 White elephant with a gigantic cigar and a circle and a circle too. 162 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:44.000 Wow. 163 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.000 Wow. 164 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.000 Wow. 165 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.000 That's kind of hilarious. 166 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.000 I did not expect this at all. 167 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:56.000 All right. 168 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.000 So let's go through white elephant. 169 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:02.000 I'll show you what I would do if I did this search and I came up with this. 170 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:03.000 First of all, I would be shocked. 171 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.000 I was like, what? 172 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.000 The only thing I was thinking of was like camel Joe with the cigarette, but 173 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:10.000 an elephant. 174 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.000 I was like, what? 175 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.000 Okay. 176 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:18.000 So I'm going to start out by getting out of the logos. 177 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:21.000 Because I just looked immediately to see if everything was a logo. 178 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.000 Everything appears to be a logo. 179 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:29.000 So what I'm going to do now is go back to the list itself without the 180 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:30.000 logos. 181 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.000 And I'm going to look to see which ones are alive. 182 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:34.000 Right? 183 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.000 I'm going to start from the oldest first. 184 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.000 Let's see how many there are. 185 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:38.000 49 records. 186 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:39.000 Okay. 187 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.000 So I start from the oldest first. 188 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.000 Now, when you look at the trademark search results, you'll see this word 189 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:45.000 dead. 190 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.000 You see that word dead? 191 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.000 Is it too small? 192 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:56.000 I can make it bigger. 193 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.000 There we go. 194 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.000 Can you see the word dead now? 195 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.000 There? 196 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.000 Okay. 197 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:02.000 Wonderful. 198 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.000 All right. 199 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:10.000 So dead means that either the trademark was alive and then it went 200 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:14.000 abandoned or they filed an application. 201 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.000 No, it's typically the trademark was alive and it went abandoned. 202 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.000 And you can tell by these registration numbers. 203 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.000 These are registration numbers. 204 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:26.000 But then these over here never got a registration number. 205 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:30.000 So that means to me that somebody filed it and then they abandoned the 206 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.000 application. 207 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:35.000 So I would start by looking at the ones that are alive. 208 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:38.000 That's where I would start. 209 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.000 So I start over here and I see live and I click on that one. 210 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.000 And there's an elephant. 211 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.000 And this must be a cigar brand of some sort. 212 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.000 Yep. 213 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.000 It's for cigars. 214 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.000 Cigars with an elephant. 215 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.000 Right? 216 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.000 So then I go back and I look at my next one. 217 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.000 Dead, dead. 218 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.000 Here's a live one. 219 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.000 Now, since there's no words on it, that means it's dead. 220 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.640 is that it's purely a logo with no words. 221 00:10:02.640 --> 00:10:04.340 When you get a result that has words, 222 00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:06.640 that means that the logo has words with it. 223 00:10:07.920 --> 00:10:11.600 But here it doesn't, it just has the logo alone. 224 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:16.020 So I click on the logo and it is a scary looking elephant. 225 00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:20.920 Some scary looking blue elephant. 226 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.040 I'm not sure why this one came up 227 00:10:25.040 --> 00:10:27.720 because this clearly has nothing to do with, 228 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.400 oh my gosh, this is a long recitation of goods. 229 00:10:30.400 --> 00:10:33.760 Look at that, that is really long. 230 00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:36.440 But it does have in there cigar bands. 231 00:10:37.380 --> 00:10:38.220 So, okay. 232 00:10:39.160 --> 00:10:40.720 All right, so now I keep going up 233 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:42.320 to the next one that's live. 234 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:46.640 Click on the next one, that's an elephant. 235 00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:49.880 And it must be for cigars if I keep going down. 236 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.080 There it is, cigar lighters. 237 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:59.160 So what I'm looking for is a trademark 238 00:10:59.160 --> 00:11:04.160 that is similar to what I wanna use. 239 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:06.900 And that's not even close. 240 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.960 White elephant I think was the one that I was curious about. 241 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:13.840 All right, so white elephant apparently 242 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.800 must be some kind of cigar brand. 243 00:11:17.280 --> 00:11:20.640 Oh no, it says excluding cigars, okay. 244 00:11:20.640 --> 00:11:22.840 All right, so this actually is a good example. 245 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:25.000 So here we have a white elephant. 246 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:29.020 It's for tobacco products, but it says excluding cigars. 247 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.880 One of the few reasons why somebody would add the language, 248 00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:37.720 all of the foregoing excluding cigars, 249 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.920 is because they in fact, 250 00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:43.600 there must be another trademark registration 251 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.180 that is for cigars. 252 00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:46.640 So they were forced to say 253 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:49.300 all of the foregoing excluding cigars. 254 00:11:50.300 --> 00:11:53.340 That's usually why, if you ever see this language, 255 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:55.920 all the foregoing excluding whatever, 256 00:11:55.920 --> 00:11:57.460 it's usually because there's somebody 257 00:11:57.460 --> 00:12:00.940 who owns that other word, okay. 258 00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:04.700 So now I go back and I go to the next one. 259 00:12:06.380 --> 00:12:08.520 Here's a live one, trifecta. 260 00:12:10.060 --> 00:12:11.620 I don't know why this comes up. 261 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:14.080 I don't see an elephant there. 262 00:12:15.260 --> 00:12:16.880 Heads of elephants. 263 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:19.680 I don't see a head of an elephant there. 264 00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:21.000 I don't know what that is. 265 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:25.560 White elephant over here. 266 00:12:25.560 --> 00:12:27.280 Oh, this is the one that bothers me. 267 00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:30.000 This is the one that bothers me the most. 268 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.560 White elephant for cigars, boom. 269 00:12:33.560 --> 00:12:37.800 So I just showed you how to do a trademark search for logos 270 00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:42.800 by looking at the description of the actual design 271 00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:46.800 using words that describe the design. 272 00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:50.920 And boom, here's one, white elephant, elephant, cigar. 273 00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:55.200 So to me, I'm concerned. 274 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.000 At this point, I look at this and I go, 275 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.620 I don't think we have a very good chance 276 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:03.400 of getting our own trademark for an elephant with a cigar. 277 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:06.640 And here you've even got a circle. 278 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.160 Oh, and look, there's even a palm tree. 279 00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:13.760 Actually, I think that's more of a tobacco plant 280 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:16.400 than a palm tree, but anyways, close enough. 281 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:21.000 So to me, this is, when I look at this, I say, nope, 282 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.480 we can't file, it's dead, don't even bother. 283 00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:27.680 Because it's the same international class for cigars, 284 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:31.360 which is 34, and it's got an elephant 285 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:32.520 and it's got the cigar. 286 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:36.480 Does that make sense? 287 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.600 Yeah, does anybody have any questions about that? 288 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.280 I wanted to, searching for logos 289 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:43.020 is one of the more complicated things 290 00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:47.500 because you got to use the exact words, right? 291 00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:49.140 But one of the things that I'm trying to do 292 00:13:49.140 --> 00:13:50.860 is give you tools that are free. 293 00:13:51.700 --> 00:13:52.820 Like this is a free tool. 294 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:55.940 You can go on and do whatever you want with this thing 295 00:13:55.940 --> 00:13:58.560 and be absolutely fine. 296 00:13:58.560 --> 00:13:59.880 So that's the beauty of it, 297 00:13:59.880 --> 00:14:03.060 is that this search tool, free. 298 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:07.100 So, but what I would be doing is, 299 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:12.100 if you don't see something that is, 300 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:14.940 let me go back and show you something real fast, 301 00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:19.020 just to help you guys out on searching. 302 00:14:19.020 --> 00:14:23.900 In this case, I searched for two words, elephant and cigar. 303 00:14:23.900 --> 00:14:26.120 If I found nothing, the next thing I would do 304 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.340 is take the next thing that's most obscure, 305 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:30.100 which is an elephant. 306 00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:32.060 Because I would think there's a lot of cigar things 307 00:14:32.060 --> 00:14:34.180 out there, but then I would just search 308 00:14:34.180 --> 00:14:36.740 for the elephant alone. 309 00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:40.780 When I search that, I get a lot of records, 310 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:43.880 7,445 records, that's a lot. 311 00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:46.860 Then I click on the image list 312 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:48.560 and I start going through them one by one 313 00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:50.960 until I find one that's close, right? 314 00:14:51.900 --> 00:14:53.620 But the other way that you can search this 315 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:56.580 is if you know that you're going to cover cigars, 316 00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.040 you know there's an elephant in your logo, 317 00:14:58.040 --> 00:15:00.380 you can type over here, cigar. 318 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.000 and then look at the goods and services 319 00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:07.780 and say, and. 320 00:15:09.020 --> 00:15:13.440 Now you've got logos that are, 321 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.680 the products are cigars 322 00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:17.440 and there's an elephant in the logo. 323 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.840 Now when I submit it, I only get 34 records. 324 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.840 Do you see how I just reduced the number? 325 00:15:23.640 --> 00:15:26.000 So now I can click on the image list 326 00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:29.640 and these are all trademark logos 327 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.760 for companies associated with cigars 328 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:38.560 where there's an elephant that's included. 329 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:41.360 That's a hippo, that's not an elephant, but in any case. 330 00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:46.280 That's how you do it, okay? 331 00:15:48.640 --> 00:15:49.720 I'm sure. 332 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:50.760 Any questions on that? 333 00:15:50.760 --> 00:15:52.240 Oh, Heather, yes, go ahead. 334 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.600 My question is in some of those ads, 335 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:58.840 we saw the elephant and it was like, 336 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:01.320 wait, but there's no cigar. 337 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:05.760 And then, so the cigar was not actually in the logo, 338 00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:07.960 but it was in the description. 339 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.320 So can you talk about that a little bit? 340 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.440 Yeah, so if you look at the search that I just did, 341 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.840 this is the search that I just did. 342 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.720 I looked for elephants in the logo and cigar is the goods. 343 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:25.920 So in that case, it won't have a cigar in the logo. 344 00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:27.560 If I come over here and I say, 345 00:16:27.560 --> 00:16:29.760 instead of goods and services, 346 00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:33.040 I say it's a description of design, 347 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:40.720 design description and I search, now there's less. 348 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:47.720 So now the results that I get are elephants with cigars. 349 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:52.080 Now here's a camel with a cigar, 350 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.560 but I think the reason for that is probably 351 00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:59.560 because the goods, I'll actually just show you. 352 00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:02.120 Here it is. 353 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:08.599 The design search code associated with elephants 354 00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:11.200 also includes all these other animals. 355 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.040 You see that? 356 00:17:14.040 --> 00:17:17.160 So what happens is after you file a trademark application, 357 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:20.599 it gets categorized into a specific search code. 358 00:17:24.560 --> 00:17:27.359 And so one of the search codes is this one, 359 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:28.880 which includes elephants, 360 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.120 but that same search code includes other things. 361 00:17:32.120 --> 00:17:36.040 So when you search for elephants as a description, 362 00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:39.680 you're gonna get other stuff where elephants is included 363 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.520 in the search code, even though it's not for an elephant. 364 00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:45.800 It's a little complicated, 365 00:17:45.800 --> 00:17:48.480 but basically you can see it right here. 366 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.280 Why is it that I got logos for things for cigarettes 367 00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:54.000 when I'm searching for cigars? 368 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:54.840 This is why. 369 00:17:55.840 --> 00:17:59.720 Because in that search code that includes cigars, 370 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:01.800 it also includes cigarettes. 371 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:08.480 So this is why I got camels with cigarettes, 372 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.400 which is Smoking Joe essentially. 373 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:14.920 That's why that result came up 374 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.680 because elephants are in the same search code as camels 375 00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:24.760 and cigarettes are in the same search code as cigars. 376 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.880 So that's why you're always gonna get a little more 377 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.880 than exactly what you're searching for. 378 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.880 Good question though. 379 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:35.360 That's a really good question. 380 00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:38.840 All right, let me stop sharing there. 381 00:18:38.840 --> 00:18:42.120 Okay, any other questions on how to search logos? 382 00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:43.960 Ray, yeah, go ahead. 383 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:46.640 I just have a question that came up as you're doing that. 384 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.000 What if somebody has like a letter or a number 385 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.440 in their logo mark? 386 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.240 Like it's not a word mark, but it's an actual icon. 387 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.080 Would you have to write the word letter or number 388 00:18:58.080 --> 00:19:00.160 when you're doing search terms? 389 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.720 So if the logo has a number, you said, or a word? 390 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:06.240 A number or a letter. 391 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.280 Like some people have like their initials 392 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:10.680 for their like real estate. 393 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.800 You'll see like, you know, or construction SCS or whatever. 394 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.400 Would you have to type out the word letter 395 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:23.400 or type out the word number so that it reads it differently? 396 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:25.520 In your case, just to, 397 00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:27.560 I wanna make sure I do this correctly. 398 00:19:27.560 --> 00:19:29.440 So in your case, you're specifically saying 399 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.040 that the logo is the letter or it includes a letter? 400 00:19:33.040 --> 00:19:34.600 It includes one. 401 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:35.520 Okay, all right. 402 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:38.960 So if it includes one, it's different than if it is one. 403 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.480 So there, as an example, like if you look at the, 404 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.320 what is it? 405 00:19:43.320 --> 00:19:47.440 The Los Angeles Angels, the baseball team, right? 406 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.880 Yeah, or like LA Dodgers or something. 407 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:52.120 Or yeah, they have that A that's cursive 408 00:19:52.120 --> 00:19:55.160 with like the angel halo over it. 409 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.600 Like if I were searching for that, 410 00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:00.200 I would be searching for design. 411 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.720 with the letter A alone. 412 00:20:02.780 --> 00:20:05.160 And then what I would do is I would also see, 413 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.540 so let's see if we can find it. 414 00:20:07.540 --> 00:20:08.540 This is a good example. 415 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:10.840 See if we can find it. 416 00:20:10.840 --> 00:20:12.420 I've never actually looked for it before. 417 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:18.760 So it would be the letter A as a design description and halo 418 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.300 as a design description. 419 00:20:22.860 --> 00:20:24.140 That's a lot of records. 420 00:20:24.340 --> 00:20:25.080 Let's see. 421 00:20:25.300 --> 00:20:27.660 Let's see what we get. 422 00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:30.520 There's no A in there. 423 00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:34.160 All right, let me try one other thing. 424 00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:40.620 If I do this, quotes, that's the same thing. 425 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:42.320 Okay. All right. 426 00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:45.420 Well, they're giving us more than we need, but let's just scroll down 427 00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:47.340 and see if we can find the Los Angeles Angels. 428 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:06.440 The other way to do it is you can use lost. 429 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.960 The reason why I don't like this search all the time is 430 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.320 because you only get two options to list there. 431 00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:16.720 You can't add more, which is unfortunate. 432 00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:22.220 Because if you could add more, then I would add, oh, here we go. 433 00:21:22.220 --> 00:21:25.960 I don't think this is it, but let's see. 434 00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:30.360 A plus collectibles. 435 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:40.640 Then I would just add another deciding factor, which would be at Los Angeles. 436 00:21:42.380 --> 00:21:43.980 You know, whatever the group. 437 00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:45.420 No, it's LA Dodgers. 438 00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:46.860 What's the, who are the Angels? 439 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:49.280 The baseball team. 440 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:49.780 I don't know. 441 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:51.280 I don't follow baseball. 442 00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:54.000 So, but in any case, yeah. 443 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.100 So that's how I would do is I would look up the halo and I would look up the letter. 444 00:21:57.100 --> 00:22:01.140 So to answer your question is like, here is, here's a logo right here. 445 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:05.380 This is a logo and in the logo, it includes the word seal of approval. 446 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:11.620 So if I were trying to find this logo, I would look up the word seal of approval 447 00:22:12.120 --> 00:22:14.580 because it would be included in the description. 448 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:24.420 So if I came down here and I look at description of Mark right there, it says in here. 449 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.420 The words seal of approval, see that. 450 00:22:33.220 --> 00:22:38.140 So anytime that you follow a trademark application for a logo that includes words, 451 00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:41.020 you actually have to include the words in the description of the mark. 452 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:49.900 So it gets more tricky if it's a single letter like a, because a is there's a lot of A's. 453 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:56.280 So for that reason, it's a little more tricky to, to look up a single letter, 454 00:22:56.780 --> 00:23:03.980 but I wasn't able to find it quickly, but we've only gone through like a hundred of the hits 455 00:23:04.460 --> 00:23:06.780 or 200 of the, of 2000 hits. 456 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:09.060 So I'm pretty sure if you just. 457 00:23:09.060 --> 00:23:12.320 If you include the term letter, will that change it? 458 00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:15.180 Will it reduce it or is it unnecessary? 459 00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:19.100 No, because if you put the word letter, then it's going to be searching for the word letter. 460 00:23:19.800 --> 00:23:20.500 The word letter. 461 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:25.820 You know, and so you're, you're not, you're not searching for the word letter. 462 00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:33.600 Um, when it gets tricky for, for trademark searching is like, what if there's a hyphen? 463 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:37.180 What if there's like multiple words that are put together? 464 00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:40.200 How do you search multiple words that are put together? 465 00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:42.160 That's when it gets trickier. 466 00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:48.040 Uh, and I'll show you guys how to do that real fast, but it would have been nice if it just popped up. 467 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:54.400 There's a lot of trademarks with the A on it. 468 00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:57.180 So, um, anyway, maybe it's older. 469 00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:01.140 If there's any way to go to like the oldest, it's been around for a long time. 470 00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:06.500 I mean, or could you sort it with the, um, the international class? 471 00:24:08.560 --> 00:24:13.980 Uh, you could, but the problem is, uh, which I alluded to two fields are taken. 472 00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:15.500 Two fields are already taken. 473 00:24:16.780 --> 00:24:18.520 Let's say I wanted to get rid of that. 474 00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:24.700 And I wanted like baseball, like what's, what's the international field for baseball. 475 00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:33.900 I mean, I could also say, see if I, if I knew the name, it'd be a lot easier if I just look real fast. 476 00:24:34.180 --> 00:24:35.460 Well, there are the LA angels. 477 00:24:36.060 --> 00:24:37.420 It is a Los Angeles angels. 478 00:24:38.580 --> 00:24:38.940 Okay. 479 00:24:40.820 --> 00:24:42.500 And they're playing the Seattle Mariners today. 480 00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:45.220 Yeah. 481 00:24:45.220 --> 00:24:46.900 Los Angeles angels, people. 482 00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:47.260 Okay. 483 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.160 So if I just look up, um, let's see if it works. 484 00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:57.680 Los Angeles angels. 485 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.760 That would instead be the owner, right? 486 00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:05.480 It would no longer be the description, 487 00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:06.640 it'd be the owner name. 488 00:25:08.040 --> 00:25:09.280 And submit the query. 489 00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:12.940 Nothing comes up, which is interesting. 490 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.660 So let's get rid of, let's see, 491 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:20.300 maybe it may be that they don't go by, 492 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.480 the company doesn't go by Los Angeles Angels, 493 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:25.320 but let's see. 494 00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:27.960 That's not right. 495 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.880 The Los Angeles Angels can't own 6,000 records, 496 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:32.040 there's no way. 497 00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:33.040 This can't be right. 498 00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:35.640 Did I spell Los Angeles wrong? 499 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:39.720 I must've spelled it wrong. 500 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:40.920 No, you got it right. 501 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:42.040 No, that's right. 502 00:25:44.560 --> 00:25:45.400 Los Angeles. 503 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:47.360 I don't know why. 504 00:25:47.360 --> 00:25:49.440 Well, apparently Los Angeles Angels 505 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:54.440 is listed on 6,800 trademarks. 506 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.340 That makes no sense to me at all. 507 00:25:56.340 --> 00:25:58.020 There's no way that Los Angeles. 508 00:25:58.020 --> 00:25:59.380 Oh, I know why. 509 00:25:59.380 --> 00:26:00.660 You did or. 510 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:04.420 Yeah, see even me, I've been doing this for ages. 511 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:06.660 You have to remember that operator. 512 00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:08.700 Then you commit to query and it doesn't come up. 513 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:11.500 So then what you do is just delete this 514 00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:13.580 and just look for the top one alone. 515 00:26:13.580 --> 00:26:14.420 Nothing. 516 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:16.140 So that means nothing is in the name 517 00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:18.540 of Los Angeles Angels. 518 00:26:18.540 --> 00:26:20.760 So that company must be owned. 519 00:26:20.760 --> 00:26:24.300 Los Angeles Angels must be owned by another entity. 520 00:26:24.300 --> 00:26:27.060 So if I were trying to figure out what's going on, 521 00:26:27.060 --> 00:26:30.420 I look up Los Angeles Angels owner 522 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:32.760 and see who's the owner. 523 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.820 Arturo Moreno. 524 00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:39.940 Okay, so let's see who owns. 525 00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:50.180 Let's see if it pops up. 526 00:26:55.300 --> 00:26:56.300 Okay, here we go. 527 00:26:57.500 --> 00:26:58.620 See if this helps. 528 00:27:03.300 --> 00:27:05.220 Yeah, I'll share my screen 529 00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:07.140 so you can see what I'm just looked at. 530 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:12.580 Plus, plus, plus. 531 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:18.100 Quick links to the Los Angeles Angels trademarks. 532 00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:21.180 So if I look, see all the A's, 533 00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:25.380 so if I look, see all the A's, they owned A's. 534 00:27:27.620 --> 00:27:29.780 So these are their trademarks. 535 00:27:29.780 --> 00:27:31.040 Who owns it though? 536 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:35.100 Angels Baseball LP. 537 00:27:35.100 --> 00:27:37.660 See, so it's not called Los Angeles Angels. 538 00:27:37.660 --> 00:27:40.380 It's called Angels Baseball LP. 539 00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:43.380 So if I wanted, I need to figure out who's the owner 540 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:46.400 and then there it is, Angels Baseball LP. 541 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.340 But you'll see it's an A, 542 00:27:49.260 --> 00:27:52.340 but in the description of the mark, 543 00:27:52.340 --> 00:27:56.680 it says the mark consists of the letter A, right? 544 00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.500 So you have to put it in the description. 545 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:02.540 So whatever the words are, 546 00:28:02.540 --> 00:28:03.860 you need to put it in the description 547 00:28:03.860 --> 00:28:06.260 when you file your application as well. 548 00:28:06.260 --> 00:28:07.780 Let me see. 549 00:28:07.780 --> 00:28:09.780 All right, any questions on that? 550 00:28:09.780 --> 00:28:13.180 That was a pretty thorough example of a logo search. 551 00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:16.100 So all of you should be able to search for logos. 552 00:28:16.100 --> 00:28:17.780 The tricky part though with logos 553 00:28:18.220 --> 00:28:19.540 is if you don't use the exact right words, 554 00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:21.100 you can get a lot of trouble. 555 00:28:21.100 --> 00:28:23.740 And just as an aside, since you guys are VIP, 556 00:28:23.740 --> 00:28:25.480 I just want to make sure it's clear. 557 00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:27.260 The tools that I'm showing you guys 558 00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:30.380 are like maybe 60 to 70% effective 559 00:28:30.380 --> 00:28:32.220 because the United States Patent and Trademark Office 560 00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:37.180 website, like, I've found many times it's missing things, 561 00:28:37.180 --> 00:28:38.460 but then separate from that, 562 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:40.220 so the question is why am I showing you this? 563 00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:42.800 Because if you have like 10 different things 564 00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:46.020 you potentially want to go after, you can decrease them 565 00:28:46.020 --> 00:28:48.140 and then just bring the ones 566 00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:50.620 that you weren't able to knock out easily, 567 00:28:50.620 --> 00:28:51.660 bring those to your lawyers. 568 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:53.580 That will decrease your costs. 569 00:28:53.580 --> 00:28:56.260 All right, so let me see if we have like 570 00:28:56.260 --> 00:28:57.780 one or two questions. 571 00:28:57.780 --> 00:29:01.180 And if we do, I'll see if I can answer those. 572 00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:04.740 And then we will close for our entire week 573 00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:08.180 of challenges for this entire week. 574 00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:10.000 This has been a pretty awesome week. 575 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.300 So let me just see if anybody has a question. 576 00:29:12.300 --> 00:29:17.300 Anybody have a question on anything that we've covered? 577 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.220 Trademarks, copyrights, patents, any of that stuff? 578 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.000 Yes, Natalie. 579 00:29:24.540 --> 00:29:26.080 How are you, Natalie? 580 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:27.900 I'm excited about doing the audit with you. 581 00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.140 This is good, I'm excited. 582 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:31.820 I'm all pumped up about doing the audit with you. 583 00:29:31.820 --> 00:29:33.020 This is gonna be awesome. 584 00:29:34.300 --> 00:29:37.820 Oh, well, the one thing I'm realizing with all of this, 585 00:29:37.820 --> 00:29:40.100 I'm like trying to read my patent. 586 00:29:40.100 --> 00:29:41.660 I'm like saying, I never read it. 587 00:29:42.060 --> 00:29:44.980 I'm in so much trouble with you because I'm saying, 588 00:29:45.980 --> 00:29:50.540 I'm looking for the eye to see how to read it. 589 00:29:50.540 --> 00:29:53.420 And I'm like, so lost in a sense. 590 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:56.980 But the question, one of the questions I had was, 591 00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:59.980 do you, after the four, the- 592 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:08.400 nine years or the for the trademark on the 14 years for the design pattern expires what happens 593 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:14.560 after that is it like that's a great question yeah that's a great question so for trademarks 594 00:30:14.560 --> 00:30:20.480 they can be renewed forever they never expire as long as you renew them you have to continue 595 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:26.080 to renew them over and over and over um for patents they expire 20 years from filing 596 00:30:26.800 --> 00:30:32.640 so they but patents also have what's called maintenance fees you have to pay a maintenance 597 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:40.480 fee at three and a half seven and a half and eleven and a half years okay so um the cost 598 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:48.400 increases based on the number of the maintenance fees so i'm going to pull up the uspto website 599 00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:54.320 i'm going to show you specifically let me share my screen i'll show you what the costs are i'll 600 00:30:54.320 --> 00:31:00.640 show you guys how to find the cost so this is the uspto website uh right here you can actually just 601 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:08.880 type up here fees like that and then go to the uspto fee schedule current uspto fee schedule 602 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.960 and then you look over here so this would be maintenance you click on maintenance 603 00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:20.160 and these are your fees three and a half seven and a half eleven and a half years 604 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:28.400 now as an individual you guys can you guys may qualify for micro-entity status i would check 605 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:32.000 and see if you can qualify for micro-entity status because then you're paying like a fraction 606 00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:38.480 of anything otherwise you're definitely a small entity but you might be a micro-entity 607 00:31:39.280 --> 00:31:43.200 so these are the costs that you pay for maintenance fees 608 00:31:43.280 --> 00:31:50.800 uh so to maintain to bring your patent alive or to keep your patent alive at three and a half years 609 00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:58.640 it's let's say 800 bucks then it goes to 1500 then it goes to 3000 okay that's just to keep it alive 610 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.880 all right and if you're large corporation this is why all of my clients who are large corporations 611 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:10.560 i always drill them really hard when it comes to the third maintenance fee i said are you absolutely 612 00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:16.320 sure you want to pay this thing like is this technology absolutely not obsolete because we're 613 00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:20.880 about to spend almost the cost of a brand new patent application to keep your patent alive 614 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:27.600 are you okay with that and i asked them to put it in writing before i do it if they put it in writing 615 00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:34.080 awesome then we'll go ahead and we'll renew it but 7 700 just to keep a patent alive 616 00:32:35.040 --> 00:32:40.880 now trademarks are different so if i go over to schedule and then i go to 617 00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:48.320 oh no no no no where is it these fees here we go 618 00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:56.480 it did not pop up oh there it is it's down here okay trademark fees so now application related 619 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:59.840 fees post registration is what you'd be looking at to keep them alive 620 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:06.800 and so now you've got like your section 9s your section 8s your section 15s your 8 and 15s to keep 621 00:33:06.800 --> 00:33:15.840 them alive these are things that are due like at 5 years at 10 years so you're paying in increments 622 00:33:15.840 --> 00:33:20.560 like after a certain number of years you're paying to renew to keep it alive it's not every single 623 00:33:20.560 --> 00:33:27.200 year though it's at every at least every five years it's not every single year so you've got 624 00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:35.120 to pay that fee just to keep it alive so but if you want to figure out the fees just go to 625 00:33:35.120 --> 00:33:43.280 the uspto website and right at the top just type in the word fees and then boom you got it current 626 00:33:43.280 --> 00:33:44.480 uspto schedule 627 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.400 click on that in fact what i'll do is just copy this and put it in the chat 628 00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:00.320 paste enter there we go and that's it now you get your fee schedule 629 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:06.720 let me just look and see in the chat i know there was some something going on a question 630 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:09.840 okay 631 00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:11.440 you can see 632 00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:24.080 okay somebody just asked a really good question what qualifies as micro entity status so let me 633 00:34:24.080 --> 00:34:30.800 pull that up for you guys micro entity status is all about kind of figuring out items that might 634 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:36.639 exist in a particular conversation is really important okay somebody just asked a really 635 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:44.800 so let me pull that up for you guys micro entity status uspto 636 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:52.159 here we go micro entity status all right here we go here's the page that gives you all the data on 637 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:57.120 and just so you know all you guys that are going either taking the auto or going in the 638 00:34:57.120 --> 00:34:59.920 protection portal this is the kind of stuff you'll get out 639 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.640 access to stuff all the time. 640 00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:04.400 Like I always drop things for you guys 641 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.000 because I want to help you guys the most I can. 642 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.840 And we'll be having our first meeting 643 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.320 for all those who join next week on the night. 644 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.320 So you get to jump right in and meet our other members. 645 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.920 Yeah, and so what we do on the first day 646 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:19.240 is we introduce you guys. 647 00:35:19.240 --> 00:35:21.060 You guys say who you are, what you do, 648 00:35:21.060 --> 00:35:22.600 what you're looking for. 649 00:35:22.600 --> 00:35:24.320 And then if there's other people in that group 650 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.100 that can support you, they will, 651 00:35:26.100 --> 00:35:28.360 or they'll meet up with you or they'll partner up with you 652 00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:29.720 or whatever the case is. 653 00:35:29.720 --> 00:35:32.820 It's a really tight-knit group, which is wonderful. 654 00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:39.160 So it says an applicant or patent, 655 00:35:39.160 --> 00:35:40.620 application or patent may qualify 656 00:35:40.620 --> 00:35:43.540 a micro-energy status if each applicant, 657 00:35:43.540 --> 00:35:46.760 its inventor or every other party 658 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:49.180 with an ownership interest in the patent application 659 00:35:49.180 --> 00:35:50.660 is a small entity. 660 00:35:50.660 --> 00:35:55.660 Small entity means less than 500 employees 661 00:35:55.660 --> 00:35:56.740 or is it 500? 662 00:35:56.740 --> 00:36:00.300 It's 500 or less employees. 663 00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:03.100 That should be listed here in the description. 664 00:36:06.020 --> 00:36:08.420 Basically, if you're alone, you're micro-entity. 665 00:36:10.180 --> 00:36:11.020 So that's one. 666 00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:12.500 The next part is the additional requirements 667 00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:14.980 of micro-entity is gross income basis 668 00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:16.480 or institution of higher education. 669 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.060 So your gross income has to be under a certain amount. 670 00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:23.080 Here it is. 671 00:36:23.080 --> 00:36:26.520 Small entity is 500 employees or less 672 00:36:26.520 --> 00:36:28.120 or fewer than 500 employees. 673 00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:29.320 Let me make this bigger. 674 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:31.960 Now you guys can see it. 675 00:36:33.640 --> 00:36:35.880 All right, so your income though, 676 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:37.960 this is the part that's important 677 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:41.600 is your income level has to be under a certain amount. 678 00:36:41.600 --> 00:36:44.400 So you just have to look in here and see if you qualify. 679 00:36:46.040 --> 00:36:47.000 And let's see. 680 00:36:50.080 --> 00:36:51.920 Gross income limit. 681 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.760 Neither the applicant nor the inventor 682 00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.560 nor a joint inventor had a gross income 683 00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:59.280 in the previous year from when the fees paid 684 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.600 of more than the maximum qualifying gross income, 685 00:37:04.020 --> 00:37:06.320 which is three times the median household income 686 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:07.420 in the United States. 687 00:37:08.680 --> 00:37:13.680 So maximum qualifying gross income is 212,000. 688 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.360 So if you make under 212,000 and you're a single individual, 689 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.060 I don't mean married or not married. 690 00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:24.780 I mean, like you're an individual filing, 691 00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:27.560 you may qualify for micro-entity status, 692 00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:30.840 which means that you pay a fraction 693 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:32.080 of what other people pay. 694 00:37:33.120 --> 00:37:34.400 Okay? 695 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.440 All right, so, and here's the page here. 696 00:37:38.020 --> 00:37:39.920 This is where it talks about your gross income. 697 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.920 This is where I got the number right there, $212,352. 698 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.740 So if you make less than that per year, 699 00:37:47.740 --> 00:37:50.580 you can qualify for micro-entity 700 00:37:50.580 --> 00:37:53.760 and you can pay a fraction of what other people pay. 701 00:37:55.540 --> 00:37:56.460 Now, just keep in mind, 702 00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:58.100 that doesn't include your lawyer's fees. 703 00:37:58.100 --> 00:37:59.460 And that's where you spend most of your money 704 00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:01.140 is on your lawyers, right? 705 00:38:01.140 --> 00:38:03.860 So like, you're gonna spend like a good $10,000 706 00:38:03.860 --> 00:38:05.720 on a patent application for a lawyer, 707 00:38:06.620 --> 00:38:10.260 but the USPTO fee is like 500 bucks. 708 00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:13.620 So it's great that you save money with the filing fee, 709 00:38:13.620 --> 00:38:16.260 but you still spend $10,000 on a lawyer. 710 00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:20.060 So, yeah, so it's something to keep in mind. 711 00:38:20.060 --> 00:38:22.540 All right, I think we have covered enough. 712 00:38:22.540 --> 00:38:25.580 I know I've answered over a hundred questions at this point 713 00:38:25.580 --> 00:38:29.620 and I truly appreciate all of you guys. 714 00:38:29.620 --> 00:38:32.220 I think we were gonna close it here. 715 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:36.380 If you guys have any, I'm gonna stay around 716 00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:37.780 if you guys have any other questions 717 00:38:37.780 --> 00:38:42.620 on either the portal or the audit, 718 00:38:42.620 --> 00:38:44.860 I'll be here for you guys to answer any questions. 719 00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:47.420 Natalie, I'm looking forward to taking care of you 720 00:38:47.420 --> 00:38:52.420 and there are a few others as well and we'll close there. 721 00:38:53.220 --> 00:38:56.780 So congratulations, Idea Protectors, 722 00:38:56.780 --> 00:38:57.900 go enjoy your weekend. 723 00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:01.740 And you guys have completed the training 724 00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:03.020 like beginning to end. 725 00:39:03.020 --> 00:39:05.260 So I applaud you guys, well done. 726 00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:08.620 It's like I gave birth to a bunch of patent trademark 727 00:39:08.620 --> 00:39:10.760 and copyright children, jeez. 728 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.520 Why do you keep referencing that? 729 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.400 Well, we've got a lot of watchdogs 730 00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.720 and we know some of these people are in communities 731 00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:25.120 and whatnot and do not be afraid to help your friends 732 00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:27.600 by saying, you might not wanna post that 733 00:39:27.600 --> 00:39:29.640 or did you do that? 734 00:39:29.640 --> 00:39:32.640 Cause if Peter does it, then he's put them on notice. 735 00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:35.520 So he doesn't say that's why he does this, 736 00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:37.040 but he sure is proud of us 737 00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:41.000 when we can accurately help others protect their ideas 738 00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.680 as well and get them in this challenge 739 00:39:42.680 --> 00:39:43.720 next time you see it. 740 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.600 David, I got your email. 741 00:39:47.600 --> 00:39:48.920 I'm looking at it now. 742 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.200 Just stay on for a sec, stay on for a sec and let's- 743 00:39:54.200 --> 00:39:55.480 Oh, I wish Anita was here. 744 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:58.800 You know, I hope Anita joins us because I think- 745 00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.640 She took the- 746 00:39:59.640 --> 00:40:00.480 She did. 747 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.000 Oh, good, because you know who I think she'd be great to collaborate with is Angelica. 748 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:05.000 Oh, yeah. 749 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.000 Oh, that's a good point. 750 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.000 Yes. 751 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:08.000 Yeah. 752 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.000 Very good. 753 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:14.000 I can't wait to introduce those two. 754 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.400 Yeah, those two actually they will work really well together. 755 00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:22.000 Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they do something together, honestly. 756 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:26.000 Two powerhouse women for sure that'll be awesome. 757 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.000 Let me see. 758 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.000 Hey, Peter's got a question. 759 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.000 Pete. 760 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.000 Pete. 761 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:39.000 Pete, what's up buddy. 762 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.000 Hey, how's it going. 763 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.000 I was just stopped by the pool hope everyone's doing well. 764 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:58.000 My question is kind of pertaining to obviously there's entity structuring in for tax purposes. I didn't know if there was if that impacted protecting IP trademarks copyrights. 765 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.000 And if there was an intersection or overlap or synergy there. 766 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:10.000 So you're asking about entity types and protecting of IP. 767 00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:16.000 Yeah, like specifically the location like whether it's the headquarters or a subsidiary. 768 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.000 Oh, yeah. 769 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:18.000 Yeah. 770 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:22.000 I do tax optimization for like exactly what the business does. 771 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.000 But like I've never really thought until the challenge. 772 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:31.000 What about the, you know, from a protecting of IP from a strategic standpoint. 773 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:32.000 Yeah. 774 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:35.000 So it's actually a really big, big, big, big issue. 775 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:47.000 I have a number of clients that will take all their IP put it in the name of a certain entity in a certain country that has a lower tax bracket, you know, and so that it's a it's a very strong strategy. 776 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:55.000 If you have a good IP portfolio is to know exactly like if you can have legal rights as an example. 777 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:01.000 One of my clients put all their rights in the United Kingdom because the tax bracket taxes were lower than in the US. 778 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.000 So they created a UK entity. 779 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:06.000 They transfer all the rights into the UK. 780 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.000 And then they license the technology over to the entity in the US for use. 781 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.000 But for tax purposes there, they pay a lot less money. 782 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:18.000 The only issue that you got to be careful of, though, well, one issue you got to be careful of is that you're exporting technology. 783 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:27.000 So you can get into like taxing of exporting technology or you can run into issues with customs where they're saying, hold it. 784 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:40.000 Like as an example, if your technology is from lasers, you know, if your technology is on some kind of tech, something that can be considered to be a threat to a government. 785 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:50.000 Then, you know, or or would be typically used by defense like national defense like lasers is a really good one. 786 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:56.000 And there's a bunch of other ones. If that's the case, then you may not be allowed to assign all rights. 787 00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:03.000 I don't want to sue an entity in another country because the US doesn't want you exporting that kind of stuff or that other country doesn't want you importing that kind of stuff. 788 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:12.000 So there are some rules on that. But for purposes of taxes, you know, tax purposes and incorporation, absolutely. 789 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:24.000 Like I would definitely look and see if you're going to build a strong IP portfolio or if you are supporting corporations that have IP portfolios or evaluating those companies. 790 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:30.000 I would definitely look into their specific countries that will give you lower tax brackets. 791 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:39.000 And even in the United States, there's certain things you can do to keep your, you know, to gain certain benefits by having it in an entity that's in a certain state. 792 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:53.000 And are there, I mean, similar similar question, I guess, is it are there states where there's been more legal precedent, you know, more protections of patents or trademarks or copyrights or is that kind of universal? 793 00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:02.000 Not for states because it's all federal. But there are countries like there are certain countries where you obtain more rights. 794 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:10.000 Like back in the day, like I've I've been very, very fortunate to deal with protection of IP all over the world. 795 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.000 And David Zhao is one of my contacts out in China. 796 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:21.000 And he'll tell you that, you know, if you went back 15 years, legal rights in China was horrible, like just horrible. 797 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.000 You know, you could get a patent out there and never be able to enforce it. 798 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:30.000 And then it changed about 10 years ago. They started changing. They got a lot better. 799 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:40.000 But the decisions that were made, like if there was patent infringement, they would they would threaten to to have the company stop selling the product. 800 00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:47.000 But they wouldn't grant court decisions for money like nobody was winning money. 801 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:55.000 They were winning like injunctions. That's all they were winning was like, oh, I got a I got a permanent injunction. 802 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:00.000 Well, then what happened was Mr. Zhao over here, his uncle. 803 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:05.000 opens up another place with the exact same technology, 804 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.640 and you're like, or even less discreet, 805 00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:11.720 his wife is listed as the founder 806 00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:14.560 of ABC Corporation in China, 807 00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:17.640 while he stops selling, now his wife is selling it. 808 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:20.020 And so it was so frustrating. 809 00:45:20.020 --> 00:45:23.520 And then the Chinese government started realizing 810 00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:25.400 that a lot of companies were leaving there, 811 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:27.240 they wouldn't do manufacturing there, 812 00:45:27.240 --> 00:45:28.960 they wouldn't do anything there. 813 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:32.480 And so they started changing the laws so that, 814 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.840 they literally did a 180, 815 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:36.360 so that all the foreign companies 816 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.160 were getting more rights than the Chinese companies. 817 00:45:39.160 --> 00:45:41.120 And then the Chinese companies started complaining, 818 00:45:41.120 --> 00:45:43.520 saying, you're letting the foreign companies 819 00:45:43.520 --> 00:45:44.400 win for everything. 820 00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:45.720 And the Chinese government was like, 821 00:45:45.720 --> 00:45:47.840 yeah, we are, because we need money. 822 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:51.760 And we need like employees to have, people to have a job. 823 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.960 And those jobs were coming from foreign countries. 824 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:59.000 So we got to give legal rights to these foreigners now 825 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.600 and let them win a little bit so that they'll come back. 826 00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:05.120 And it worked somewhat, but all the issues with COVID 827 00:46:05.120 --> 00:46:07.600 and all the other stuff had kind of a wrinkle 828 00:46:07.600 --> 00:46:10.960 in that whole dilemma, and then so, 829 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.800 but in any case, the fact is that in the United States, 830 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.980 it doesn't really matter your legal rights are gonna be, 831 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.600 they're gonna be respected in every state. 832 00:46:22.600 --> 00:46:24.400 Now, that's not to say that 833 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:27.840 there aren't certain states that are better for litigation. 834 00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:29.720 Like Eastern District of Texas 835 00:46:29.720 --> 00:46:31.960 used to be the best place to do litigation 836 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:36.100 because all the judges were very patent friendly. 837 00:46:36.100 --> 00:46:39.920 So they were very, they were enforcing patents 838 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.960 like crazy in the Eastern District of Texas. 839 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:44.280 And anybody who had a patent, 840 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:45.440 if they were gonna sue somebody, 841 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:48.280 they always sued them in the Eastern District of Texas, 842 00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:50.120 like always. 843 00:46:50.120 --> 00:46:54.540 And so you had literally hundreds of law firms 844 00:46:54.540 --> 00:46:57.200 that were opening in Texas 845 00:46:57.200 --> 00:47:00.880 because they wanted to get some of the money for litigation 846 00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:02.880 because like a single litigation matter 847 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:07.520 can give you 3 million to $15 million worth of legal fees. 848 00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:10.960 So why not like open up a shop in Texas 849 00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:13.100 and then make money, right? 850 00:47:14.140 --> 00:47:18.840 But then what happened was the TC Hartland case 851 00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:22.160 was decided, which basically said, 852 00:47:22.160 --> 00:47:23.720 it's actually a court case, 853 00:47:23.720 --> 00:47:24.560 which actually said, 854 00:47:24.560 --> 00:47:28.680 hey, look, whenever you sue somebody, 855 00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:31.200 you need to sue them in the state of incorporation. 856 00:47:31.200 --> 00:47:34.560 You can't sue them anywhere you want and say, 857 00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:37.920 oh, there was one sale in Texas. 858 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.840 So I'm gonna sue them in federal district court 859 00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.640 in the Eastern District of Texas. 860 00:47:41.640 --> 00:47:44.040 Like the courts came out and said, no, you can't do that. 861 00:47:44.040 --> 00:47:45.440 And that was a TC Hartland case 862 00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.840 that came out a number of years ago. 863 00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.600 So now if you get sued in Texas, 864 00:47:50.600 --> 00:47:53.220 you can say, I'm not incorporated in Texas. 865 00:47:53.220 --> 00:47:54.620 What are you talking about? 866 00:47:54.620 --> 00:47:56.600 You need to sue me in New Hampshire. 867 00:47:56.600 --> 00:47:59.200 So all of a sudden the number of lawsuits in Texas 868 00:47:59.200 --> 00:48:00.920 decreased and tanked 869 00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:04.380 and all these law firms started tanking and crashing 870 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:06.360 because they couldn't just hang out in Texas. 871 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:08.400 So then people started leaving Texas. 872 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:11.100 So that's a long way of saying 873 00:48:11.100 --> 00:48:13.800 legal rights are respected throughout all the United States, 874 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:15.840 but there are certain court systems 875 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.680 that like patent litigation more than others. 876 00:48:19.680 --> 00:48:22.560 And so you might have a higher chance of winning 877 00:48:22.560 --> 00:48:26.760 if you own a patent, if you can be in those specific states. 878 00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:29.320 And so that's something that we've run into in litigation 879 00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:31.480 when we're evaluating where to file a case. 880 00:48:33.640 --> 00:48:34.480 Yeah. 881 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:35.300 That's great, thank you. 882 00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:36.240 You're welcome, you're welcome. 883 00:48:36.240 --> 00:48:38.920 All right, my friends, that will be it. 884 00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.120 My friends, bless you all. 885 00:48:41.120 --> 00:48:42.920 Oh, thank you guys. 886 00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:45.000 I really appreciate the personal comments 887 00:48:45.040 --> 00:48:46.040 that I'm getting here. 888 00:48:46.040 --> 00:48:47.520 I really appreciate that.