WEBVTT

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Okay, welcome guys to day one of VIP congratulations that you guys are actually in VIP.

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My intention is really answer all of your questions in a lot of detail.

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But same time, just keep in mind, I can't give you legal advice.

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So what I mean by that is, I can tell you what the law says in certain areas.

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But what I can't do is I can't tell you in this situation, you should do this or not

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situation you should do that.

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Or this definitely is infringement.

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That's definitely not infringement.

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I can't do that.

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But I can show you what needs to be assessed and making the evaluation so that you can

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make the evaluation or you can bring the information to your attorney being well informed, right

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because the intent of this is not to phase out attorneys.

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Matter of fact, I have a lot of attorneys that are actually sponsoring this meeting

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that they, they call me up, they're really excited about doing this because they know

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that the clients that come to them are better informed, which, you know, as an example today,

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as I mentioned to you earlier, Joyce, I was talking to somebody for an hour explaining

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the differences between design patents, utility patents, statutory bars, US versus foreign

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filing, all sorts of stuff, and not a minute of that was billable, right?

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Imagine doing that all day.

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Like, I mean, you know, businesses that sell products, within a minute, you can sell 100

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users, 1000 units, right?

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Lawyers can actually bill the entire time that they're working, and that's it.

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So it's it's not there's only so much time in a day.

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So but what I'm trying to do really is get people to understand these concepts.

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And so this is, this is proven to be really successful in doing that.

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So I'm really enjoying this.

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But I want to start out by just answering questions like, we covered a good amount today,

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which is typically what happens day one is busy, day two is usually the busiest.

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And then it starts to calm down.

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Like day two, people are like, what, what, day one, they're kind of like getting their

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their legs about them.

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And so we covered a number of things, descriptiveness, we covered what trademarks are, I touched

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base a little bit on domain names, I'm going to talk a little bit more about that here

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going to do go in a little more detail on a trademark search here.

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So you can actually see how to do trademark searches in a lot more detail what those fields

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really mean.

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But I want to just check in with you, Jay and Joyce and Miguel, if there are specific

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questions you have, just either raise your virtual hand or unmute yourself and just go

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right ahead. Yeah, Joyce, go ahead.

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OK, I guess we'll take it one at a time.

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I have several questions.

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I didn't know I had questions until I was in the church.

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There was one.

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I, I have been, I think in 2001, I was given a like, like a written language from God.

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And it's turned into it looks almost like art, but it's I'm putting it out for sale under

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a gift of prayer dot com, I think is the website I've chosen so far.

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I might change the name after you.

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But a friend of mine took it to Stanford linguist.

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I was living in San Francisco at the time.

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So I said, I don't know if this is language, but I don't know if it's real or not.

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But anyway, what it turns out to be is there's it's just like almost automatic writing, but

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Holy Spirit. And then it's got a lot of crosses.

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And it turned out to be intercession.

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And so I'm does that is that like a copyright or a trademark?

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You mean fonts?

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No, it's not fonts.

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It's like I do literal page after page after page.

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I do like single sheets that are like people say, pray for me about this.

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So I pray and the writing comes out of me.

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And it's when you say a writing, is it is it using are you creating your own language or are

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using the alphabet or like what are you?

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There is no alphabet.

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So it's basically a creative writing.

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Right. Yeah, that's copyright law.

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Copyright. OK.

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Yep. All right.

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That's where copyright law comes in.

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Now, there's a number of different things that potentially that can break down into.

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But that that's copyright law.

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And you will learn that later.

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Yeah, we'll jump into that on day three.

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OK. And then I just said, quick, quick notes, question marks.

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Like, my question on the trademarks is like, it seems like, wow, if I've been using, and

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this is one of my domains that I've had for years, but now I'm literally going to get

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it active.

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It's going to be a bit, it's been to be a business for all these years, but today's

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the day, called Worthy Lamb.

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And so that's a very, that's a common name.

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There are many Worthy Lamb applications I looked on online, but mine is a character

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in stories and products I would want to develop out of that.

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So I didn't know if I could put trademark on that, even though it's such a familiar

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phrase and, you know, words, and I don't think it's a descriptive, I was trying to understand

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that descriptive thing.

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Does that make sense?

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You're saying Worthy Lamb?

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So is it the character, is this like in a children's book or something like that?

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So if there's a character in a book and it's called Worthy Lamb?

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I mean, trademark comes into place where you're trying to identify goods or services,

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right?

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So if I create like a character in a book, like whatever the name is, let's say like

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Spider-Man, right?

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That makes it easier because obviously it's a famous comic book, right?

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So if I use Spider-Man in a book, that's not really using it as an identification

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of a source of goods, it's a character in a book.

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A trademark identifies a source of goods or services.

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So if I have like Spider-Man and underneath it, like I'm selling, let's say Spider-Man

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comic books and the title is Spider-Man, that's protectable because there's a series of

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books under that name, right?

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So that makes it protectable under trademark law.

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If I have, let's say Spider-Man t-shirts or Spider-Man costumes, those are all protectable.

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But if I just have a character whose name is Spider-Man in a book, I'm not using it

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as a source of goods or services, it's just a character in a book, right?

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So now the writing of the book itself, the comic book itself is protectable under copyright

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law, right?

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So any writing becomes protectable under copyright law.

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But again, just having a random character's name in a book in and of itself, it's not

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really a trademark.

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I would have to use it as a trademark to actually be able to obtain certain legal rights as

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a trademark.

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I'm going to lower my table and sit down, I've been standing the entire time.

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Let's have this go down.

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There we go.

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All right, good enough.

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So what was the, Joyce, I think you're muted, so.

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Yeah.

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What if I, my intention has always been to create products out of where they land, the

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books.

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Yeah, so that's something that I was going to teach on tomorrow.

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So there's a thing called an intent to use trademark application.

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So trademarks can be, you can have an actual use application.

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So I'm using it, actually using it.

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That's called an actual use application under Section 1A.

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Or there is, if I'm going to potentially use something, but I'm not using it yet.

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That's called an intent to use trademark application.

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So I can, that's a Section 1B trademark application.

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Yeah.

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OK, let me go over to Jay.

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And then if you have another question, you can jump back in.

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Jay, go ahead.

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Jay, what is that in the background?

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So I actually have a day job.

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I work in IT computers, right?

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So, yeah, that's an antique phone system that you're looking at.

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Wow.

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In the background, right?

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Yeah.

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So who knew, right?

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That's massive.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, I just, yeah, so whatever.

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Yeah.

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So I work for a Fortune 500 company.

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And I'm more so just, more so here because I really liked your AI law class.

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That was fantastic.

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Oh, thank you very much.

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I appreciate that.

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That was just, you know, hats off, right?

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Top notch.

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Thank you.

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And so.

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So as part of trying to talk about AI to my folks at work,

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certainly I'm trying to expand.

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I realized that there's a lot of IP law here

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that I have no idea about.

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And so just trying to get my feet wet,

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and just as everyone else with, hey, I have an idea, right?

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That was certainly not my intent joining the call,

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but since I'm here, right?

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You know, one of the thoughts that I had myself

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was like to try to come up with some sort

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of a school education program, right?

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So I went and registered a domain, right?

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But the, you know, from what you're saying, right?

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Descriptive, right?

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So certainly I feel like I fall

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into that descriptive path, right?

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So like, I can't register,

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like United States college program, right?

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And just to come up with some training pointers, right?

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And so certainly that falls, I think,

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right into the descriptive, right?

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So I think that certainly I'm in trouble there,

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but I'm not in it to make money, right?

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So, you know, I have a day job, right?

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You know, this would be for fun, right?

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And just to try to help some folks.

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So the question really comes up,

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if I really don't care about, you know,

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as long as I can trademark like the logos

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and the website domain, you know,

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so that no one could take it away from me,

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really, that's what I'm concerned about.

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I'm not necessarily concerned about somebody using it,

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right, because I think in order for, you know,

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an educational thing to be useful,

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schools don't have money.

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So certainly give the use away of those domains, right?

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Or the logos and stuff like that, right?

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So, you know, do you feel like there's some way

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of protecting, you know, what I'm referring to

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as just creating a protection for myself

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so no one else can just grab it underneath me?

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Yeah, it's a great question.

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When we use names that are descriptive,

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then you're right, we can't own those names

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because other people can just use the same name.

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We can't stop them.

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However, you can come up with a clearly distinguishable logo

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that doesn't include those words,

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you know, that has a design in it.

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You can have some kind of design that's unique.

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You can come out with a brand like coloring.

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See what people forget,

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they think that brand only consists of like a trademark

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and that's not the case.

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Brand actually includes a lot of different things.

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So it can include your color scheme,

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it can include your fonts,

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it can include like your voice,

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the audio associated with it.

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It includes like, it can include your copy,

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the tone in your copy,

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can include your trademarks themselves.

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So if you try to do some level of protection

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based on what you're building,

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your trainings themselves would include like materials,

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right, so if it's an e-course,

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then you're gonna have some kind of handouts probably.

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Those are protectable under copyright law.

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The logo itself that you utilize,

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that's protectable under trademark law

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if it's potentially available.

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If you create a funnel or a website

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and it has a certain color tone to it,

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that's potentially protectable under trade dress law

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depending on how distinguished it becomes.

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Like Russell Bronson has certain looks

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that he has to his funnels.

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Those are protectable under not only copyright law

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for the text, but under trade dress law

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for the design itself, the look and feel, right?

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So there's a number of different areas

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where potential protection is available.

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If that is the name that you're in love with,

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then essentially the extent of your protection

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will fall into the materials under copyright law,

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the logo under trademark law,

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and then potentially trade dress,

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which is kind of harder to prove.

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But those are really,

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that'll probably be the extent of the protection

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that's potentially available.

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But more importantly, I think,

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by using a descriptive name or business name,

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not really that's a business, right?

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But like a organizational name, right?

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At least nobody else could in theory register that name.

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Correct.

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They can't do anything like that, right?

250
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So-

251
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That is absolutely correct.

252
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So you don't have to worry about potentially infringing

253
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upon somebody else's registration

254
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because you're using the same registration

255
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and you're using a descriptive term.

256
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So by the mere fact that you can't own it

257
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means that you can't infringe

258
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because you can't own it, right?

259
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So that means nobody can own it.

260
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So that's one good thing that's available

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with a term that's descriptive.

262
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And in fact, what I've seen people do, you have to be really good at this, but you can become an

263
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exclusive owner of something that is descriptive and then end up owning it, which is it's bizarre.

264
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It takes a good 10 years to be able to prove that, but I've seen it happen.

265
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So that's fine. I'm not trying to, you know, again, I'm not trying to make money on this.

266
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Right. Right. Right. And one thing to keep in mind when when we're talking about owning things,

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it's not always about, you know, making money. Quite often what what owning these things allows

268
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us to do is we get to control the quality of what is provided to a third party so other people

269
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aren't misled. All right. So as an example, let's say you have an incredible educational program

270
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and you're genuinely helping people. If you want to maintain the authenticity of the quality so

271
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that other people are not misled by people using shortcuts and people using like the wrong

272
00:16:03.680 --> 00:16:09.040
processes, then you want to own your own name because then people know, oh, when you go there,

273
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you're getting the real deal. You're getting the real training. You're you're obtaining a

274
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certain quality that's going to transform your business versus another party who can now use the

275
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same name and then draw people to them and give them something less than what you're actually

276
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providing. So there's something about being a good steward of what we are blessed to have,

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quite frankly. You know, it's like like we got this incredible idea. I'm like, wow, like that's

278
00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:42.560
amazing. So now we want to make sure that whatever that is, that we're releasing to others like this

279
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training. The reason why I own Protection Portal, the reason why you own like the logo is that

280
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people can say, right, when you go there, that guy's going to take the time to make sure you get

281
00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:58.240
it. And like, you know, he wants to make sure that what he's teaching is not wrong. Now, what if

282
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somebody else used a name, like say I use a descriptive term, somebody else uses a descriptive

283
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:09.440
term, they can create their own program. People think that it's this program. They go in there

284
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:14.079
and they're getting the wrong information. They're getting misguided. So there's something about

285
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stewarding it well ourselves. It's not just about making money all the time. At times, it's really

286
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protecting what's been bestowed upon us so we can help others. Yeah, that was good. And just

287
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:33.280
going. Thank you. And then just the other one I had was on the on the earlier session. There was

288
00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:40.320
on the I looked up a few sites and I noticed the term live and dead. What does that refer to? Yeah,

289
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:45.120
that's a great question. Let me show you. Let me pull that up. That's a really good question.

290
00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:57.600
So

291
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.720
I'm really glad Jay that you brought that up because I never really had a member say that

292
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:22.080
before. But it's so important to protect your customers and audience base by making sure that

293
00:18:22.080 --> 00:18:25.920
they're going to the right place when people knock things off. So that's that was a great,

294
00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:35.120
great contribution. I'm so glad you asked. Yeah, it's unfortunate when, you know, often like when

295
00:18:35.120 --> 00:18:39.600
we when we're building a business, we're thinking about our own financial gain, which makes sense.

296
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Obviously, we're investing money in building something. But there's something about the fact

297
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:52.560
that you were entrusted with something that is important and that you're taking the time to serve

298
00:18:52.560 --> 00:19:01.040
others really well. You want to make sure that they're receiving the quality of what you have

299
00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:07.760
to give. And by doing that, by honoring that gift set that you have, by honoring that relationship

300
00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:12.640
that you have with others, I think more is provided. You know, the ones who actually steward

301
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:20.080
well what they're given tend to get more. And so let me just show you this dead thing here. Can you

302
00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:26.480
see that? Yeah, I see it. OK, great. So the reason when you click on this, you'll see live, you'll

303
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.480
see dead. Live means that the trademark is present, is currently alive, meaning it's enforceable. Dead

304
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.080
means that it existed at one time, either as an application or as a registration. And it's

305
00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:42.720
currently dead, meaning that it doesn't it there's no legal rights associated with it.

306
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:50.960
So when I click on this, you'll see here abandoned to that. So abandoned means that the trademark

307
00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:59.360
is no longer the federal registration is no longer enforceable. Now, the term abandoned like.

308
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.880
For trademarks, when something's dead,

309
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:06.860
does not mean that the party does not have

310
00:20:06.860 --> 00:20:08.820
any legal rights in any way, shape, or form.

311
00:20:08.820 --> 00:20:11.180
It means that they don't have a federal registration,

312
00:20:11.180 --> 00:20:14.300
but they might still have certain common law rights.

313
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A party can decide not to maintain a trademark.

314
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They could say, you know what?

315
00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:23.620
We're going to save money this year.

316
00:20:23.620 --> 00:20:26.980
We're not going to renew this federal registration.

317
00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:28.580
Because you have to continue to renew

318
00:20:28.580 --> 00:20:30.300
your trademark every five years.

319
00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:32.540
So they can decide, you know what?

320
00:20:32.540 --> 00:20:36.380
We're not going to renew because we have like 300 trademarks.

321
00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:37.660
We're going to let this one go.

322
00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:39.420
We're not using it that much.

323
00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:41.900
But since they've been selling product

324
00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:43.260
throughout the United States, they

325
00:20:43.260 --> 00:20:47.060
may actually have certain legal rights under common law,

326
00:20:47.060 --> 00:20:48.780
even though they no longer have rights

327
00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:52.260
under a federal trademark.

328
00:20:52.260 --> 00:20:54.820
However, the big thing on this one, if you notice,

329
00:20:54.820 --> 00:20:56.660
is there is no registration number.

330
00:20:56.700 --> 00:20:58.860
See that?

331
00:20:58.860 --> 00:21:03.740
So if it's dead and there's no registration number,

332
00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:06.780
that means that it was filed and abandoned.

333
00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:08.500
And the way you can prove that is you just

334
00:21:08.500 --> 00:21:10.220
click on this button right up here.

335
00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:12.740
It is a TSDR.

336
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You click on the TSDR.

337
00:21:16.060 --> 00:21:18.780
It shows you the status of the case itself.

338
00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:22.020
Abandoned because no statement of use or extension request

339
00:21:22.020 --> 00:21:25.140
timely filed with the notice of allowance was issued.

340
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:30.580
So that's basically telling you that they filed the application

341
00:21:30.580 --> 00:21:33.020
and the case was allowed, but they didn't

342
00:21:33.020 --> 00:21:34.700
file the statement of use.

343
00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:37.100
And so for that reason, the case went abandoned.

344
00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:39.220
And you can even click on the documents

345
00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:42.020
here and see exactly what happened.

346
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See intention to use.

347
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That's an ITU's intention to use.

348
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They filed an extension.

349
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And then they didn't file anything.

350
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The USPTO sent them a notice of abandonment.

351
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And then it went abandoned.

352
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OK.

353
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So that's what that dead and live means.

354
00:22:01.300 --> 00:22:06.340
But if you notice that there is no registration number,

355
00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:09.060
then that means that it was only an application, never

356
00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:12.100
advanced to actual registration.

357
00:22:12.100 --> 00:22:12.740
Yeah.

358
00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:14.300
So then just the only follow up question,

359
00:22:14.300 --> 00:22:16.540
which I'm glad you picked Nike because I was actually

360
00:22:16.540 --> 00:22:17.620
looking at the same one.

361
00:22:17.620 --> 00:22:21.700
So I see the word Nike and I see they felt the need

362
00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:28.060
to also trademark like Nike Air or Nike Go, right?

363
00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:34.580
Does that mean that Nike Fred is available for use?

364
00:22:34.580 --> 00:22:35.740
That's a good question.

365
00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:40.940
So you notice that they have Nike as well, right?

366
00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:45.380
So let's say you had Nike Fred or something like that.

367
00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:48.700
And you wanted to use it for footwear.

368
00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.300
The fact is that they own Nike for footwear.

369
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So you cannot take a federally registered trademark

370
00:22:56.100 --> 00:22:58.980
and add a word to it to try to get around trademark

371
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:00.820
infringement.

372
00:23:00.820 --> 00:23:04.380
So if their federal registration is within your registration,

373
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that's a problem.

374
00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:09.940
Or within your trademark, that's a problem.

375
00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:10.580
OK.

376
00:23:10.580 --> 00:23:15.300
And so the reason why they've created multiple trademarks

377
00:23:15.300 --> 00:23:19.980
is just to see why is that the only purpose for that or?

378
00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:21.620
No, they have different brands.

379
00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:25.260
And so they'll have different trademarks for different brands

380
00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:27.260
that they're utilizing.

381
00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:32.180
So you'll have like Nike Air, Nike Luna, Nike Vapor.

382
00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:33.740
Those are different lines.

383
00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:35.260
Now, they own the word Nike.

384
00:23:35.260 --> 00:23:39.180
So if somebody came out with Nike Lunar,

385
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:44.180
they would obviously infringe even if they only own Nike.

386
00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:47.900
But if they use Lunar alone, they probably

387
00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:49.580
wanted to own the name Lunar.

388
00:23:49.580 --> 00:23:53.260
But probably were not able to get a registration for Lunar

389
00:23:53.260 --> 00:23:53.740
alone.

390
00:23:53.740 --> 00:23:55.260
So they added the word Nike to it

391
00:23:55.260 --> 00:23:59.100
to make it more distinct so they can get their registration.

392
00:23:59.100 --> 00:24:03.540
Because if you tried to own the name Air alone for sneakers,

393
00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:04.900
you probably wouldn't be able to.

394
00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:08.180
But once you add Nike in front of Air,

395
00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:10.900
you can get a registration.

396
00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:12.620
So it could be a number of reasons

397
00:24:12.620 --> 00:24:14.500
why they add the word Nike in front of it.

398
00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:16.980
It could be just that as a brand,

399
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:20.700
they always use the name Nike before the other word.

400
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:22.740
Some companies always do that.

401
00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:27.300
They always have their normal name before their trademarks.

402
00:24:27.300 --> 00:24:30.820
That's one way that some brands work.

403
00:24:30.820 --> 00:24:32.780
And then the other thing is some of these words

404
00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:38.020
that come afterward, Nike, are just basic words

405
00:24:38.020 --> 00:24:39.540
that other people would have.

406
00:24:39.540 --> 00:24:41.420
Like the word town.

407
00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:44.900
You can't own the word town.

408
00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:48.260
So does that mean I'll go back to the descriptive discussion

409
00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:49.500
we had at the beginning?

410
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.420
Does that mean that if I come up with some snappy name

411
00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:54.380
or something like that that's very unique,

412
00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:59.500
that I can then trademark descriptive names after that?

413
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.920
like they did with Nike town. Well, if you have your own, let's say you have your own distinct

414
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:13.840
trademark, right? Let's say it's like Feshier is your trademark. You can, and you can get a

415
00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:18.000
federal registration for that. You could add any descriptive term you want after that, because

416
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.000
all they're going to count on is the trademarkable portion. That's it.

417
00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:29.120
It's like Microsoft Excel. Well, the word Excel exists. Like Microsoft doesn't work on the word

418
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:34.880
Excel alone. They, you know, so it's like, you would have to have a situation where.

419
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:42.400
So like Nike Air, right? So, you know, yeah. Nike Air, good example. Like Nike Air, right? So

420
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.960
Air is a descriptive name, you know, presumably, right. The Air and the Seekers, right. So it's

421
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:55.680
describing this. Yeah. Like this one right here, Nike Golf, like they have right there, Nike Golf.

422
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.160
Right. I mean, golf is descriptive. I'm sure this trademark is being used for golf. If I click on it,

423
00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:09.840
what does it say? Footwear. I'm sure this is all being used for golf. Right. Well, they can't own

424
00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:15.200
the word golf alone. See, and it even says here, no claim is made exclusive right to use golf

425
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.600
apart from the market shown. Right. So then in theory that I could, you know, make, if I could

426
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:26.800
get like a weird name, I don't know, Zana or something like that. Right. If I could make up

427
00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:32.080
some weird name and then put that in front and then put the descriptive term afterwards,

428
00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:38.160
then that may be trademarkable. Correct. And the reason why it's trademarkable is because that

429
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.480
first word is trademarkable, not because the second word is trademarkable. Right. So, but,

430
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.320
but I could get two trademarks, right. I could get the trademark on the weird name and then I could

431
00:26:48.320 --> 00:26:54.480
then do like they did with Nike Town or Nike Air. Yes, that's exactly right. So, and that's what a

432
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:59.600
lot of companies will do. They'll own the, the unique name alone is the company name and then

433
00:26:59.600 --> 00:27:06.160
they have all these brands. Right. Right. Right. Okay. That's good. Yeah. I mean, Samsung, like

434
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:11.600
Sony, there's a number of them. I used to represent Boston. Actually, I still represent Boston

435
00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:17.920
Acoustics. Boston Acoustics has many, many, many different types of speakers. Now they're way

436
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:22.720
smaller than they used to be. They got bought out by Denon and Marantz, which then got bought

437
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:29.520
out by Massimo. Right. But, you know, they, they had all these different lines, but it was always

438
00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:34.640
the Boston, blah, blah, blah, like Boston Acoustics, Microsystem, Boston, blah, blah, blah. It was

439
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:41.200
always Boston, Boston, Boston. So, yeah. So you, you come out with a, although in that case,

440
00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:45.680
what was interesting in the United States, we were able to get a registration for the

441
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.360
name Boston for audio speakers. In China, we couldn't because in China, the word is the,

442
00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:59.120
the law says that you can't get a trademark for a geographical region and Boston is a geographical

443
00:27:59.120 --> 00:28:04.080
region. Right. Right. And so in China, we could never get the registration. So we had to do some

444
00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:09.440
unique thing. We actually did the, we got a registration for, this was really cool.

445
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:14.640
We get a registration for the Chinese characters that said Boston, but we filed it as an artistic

446
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:20.800
work instead of a wordmark. Oh, okay. That's how we bypassed the whole system, you know, and we won.

447
00:28:20.800 --> 00:28:25.600
But sometimes you got to get really creative. Right. Right. I'm surprised you were able to

448
00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:30.560
get Boston. That, that certainly sounds like a descriptive term, right? Cause they're right.

449
00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:37.360
But the big thing is that the name Boston is not descriptive of speakers. Oh, right. Oh, I got you.

450
00:28:37.360 --> 00:28:42.320
There's nothing. It always comes down to what are the goods or the services. That's how it,

451
00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:48.080
that's how you look at it. The goods and services. If the term is descriptive of the goods and

452
00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:51.520
services, that's the problem. If it's not descriptive of the goods and services, you're fine.

453
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.120
Very good. All right. Excellent. Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. Great questions. Joyce,

454
00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:02.080
did you have another question? Actually I should check and see if Miguel has a question. Miguel,

455
00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:09.120
do you have a question as well? And if you do, you'll have to unmute, but we'd also love to see

456
00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:14.960
your face on camera. If you're with us, I don't see that he does. Joyce go right ahead.

457
00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:18.400
You just have to unmute.

458
00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:34.400
Okay. When you were talking about trademarks, if we see no trademark on others like that

459
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:41.280
worthy lamp thing that I was thinking about, if we look at their website, their products,

460
00:29:41.280 --> 00:29:48.720
whatever, and there's no trademark showing, does that help determine that I might be the first one

461
00:29:49.520 --> 00:29:53.840
to claim it? Or what does that mean? Because I was a little confused about,

462
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:59.440
but then you said it was first to file for wins. And

463
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:06.560
but i'm trying to determine i mean we do the search but then don't some people put trademark

464
00:30:06.560 --> 00:30:11.760
on and they didn't really trademark it anyway or copyright it yeah you you remember you have

465
00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:18.160
certain legal rights under trademark law even if you don't file anything right right so you can use

466
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:23.280
a tm the second you start using the trademark in interstate commerce you can use a tm okay

467
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:29.280
so you don't even need a federal registration okay because i was just wondering if it just

468
00:30:29.280 --> 00:30:34.960
seems risky to me you know i just want to be sure but you start using it and then somebody

469
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:41.440
i'll do the search but then if somebody shows up then i guess i'm paying you $600 well what

470
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:48.080
you want to do is you you compare you compare your trademark to the others right meaning

471
00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:53.840
what are the goods or services i'll give you an example let me walk you through this okay

472
00:30:54.800 --> 00:30:56.160
oh let me share my screen again

473
00:30:59.040 --> 00:31:04.240
okay so this is a trademark that's owned by nike right

474
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:17.040
you see the goods here yes footwear clothing namely caps gloves right these are the actual

475
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:27.920
goods so that limits them there it does it okay so let's say that somebody came out with nike golf

476
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:36.960
for flowers that has nothing to do with footwear hats jackets pants rainwear shirts shorts box

477
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:44.560
sweaters sweatshirts t-shirts vest visors and warm-up suits wow that seems risky for them

478
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.760
i could make nike golf greeting cards or well but here's the thing and the reason why i mentioned

479
00:31:51.760 --> 00:31:56.320
before is that if somebody has a famous trademark they get a lot more strength

480
00:31:57.600 --> 00:32:03.600
the federal district court will give them much more leeway because they'll ask okay

481
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:10.000
why in the world did you use nike golf for plants like that's they're gonna ask that question though

482
00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:14.800
like you know what what in the world does nike golf have to do with plants

483
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:23.280
and you know it might be a little difficult to defend that well um you know we just i just

484
00:32:23.280 --> 00:32:28.880
randomly came up with it i decided to come up with my new floral line called nike golf

485
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:35.680
just randomly yeah that doesn't make sense yeah it'd be a little difficult okay to do that so

486
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:41.280
for that reason um i tend to tell people stay far away from famous trademarks if the only reason

487
00:32:41.280 --> 00:32:46.320
why you're using a trademark is because it's famous don't use it it's it's just a bad idea

488
00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:52.080
because they are they are really um like i like i said i've been up against mcdonald's

489
00:32:52.080 --> 00:33:00.400
microsoft um these guys are highly litigious you know they want to fight yeah you know they have

490
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:04.960
and a lot of these have these companies have in-house counsel which means they're already

491
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:11.280
being paid the lot the corporation is not paying extra money to hire a lawyer they already own the

492
00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:16.080
lawyers but the lawyers work for them so they're just sitting around looking for something to do

493
00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:21.280
like don't justify themselves yeah yeah definitely do not give them an excuse to

494
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.480
to do something um not not a good thing okay i think that answers my question so

495
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:34.880
i'm not sure what question was but okay good good all right let me show you

496
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:44.800
uh let me go into the search let's go a little more into the search over here just so you all

497
00:33:44.800 --> 00:33:48.480
um since you guys are here in vip now i need to get your questions answered but

498
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:56.240
you get to see a little bit about some extra features here so looking under the fields

499
00:33:59.040 --> 00:34:07.920
i use non-punctuated word mark a lot um but let me show you these other ones so you know what they

500
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.400
mean you're not you're never going to use abandonment date because you're not going to

501
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:18.960
know what the date is um you're not going to use affidavits that's usually used if if there were

502
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:24.239
something filed with with the uspto but you're not going to deal with that assignment recorded

503
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:30.480
that's the date um so let's say you you have a trademark it was filed in your name and you want

504
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.040
to sign all right title and interest to your company you would file an assignment that's

505
00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:41.520
what that assignment is okay so but you wouldn't know the date of recordation so you probably

506
00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:45.760
wouldn't look at that attorney of record if you want to see all the things that i filed you could

507
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:51.280
look up by name just type it in there you're never going to use a basic index you're never

508
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.840
going to use that coordinated class cancellation date you won't care change the registration you

509
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:59.840
don't care current basis so that's like the section

510
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:07.360
1A or 1B. 1A is an actual use trademark application, meaning you file the application

511
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:14.080
with a specimen showing that it's actually being used. 1B is an intent to use application, so that's

512
00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:19.680
you know, you file the application saying I will use it in the future, I'm not using it now,

513
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.880
and then at some point you're going to have to show proof of actual use. So

514
00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:32.640
it's called a section 1B application. It's called an intent to use trademark application.

515
00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:40.560
One of the hardest things for people to come up with is a new trademark, like a name that nobody

516
00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:45.440
else has ever used. Very difficult to come up with because there's only so many letters in the

517
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:51.200
English alphabet and only so many sequences that you can use, so it gets kind of difficult to come

518
00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:56.080
up with a new name. So if you come up with a new name and you're not using it for a product

519
00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:03.440
or service yet, you can actually file an intent to use application instead of an actual use

520
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:10.320
application. An intent to use application is under section 1B, and with that filing,

521
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:16.720
you can file your application, get it allowed, but not registered, and then at the point of

522
00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:23.280
getting allowed, you have to show proof of using it. You can file extensions for three whole years

523
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.320
until you actually use it. So there's a lot, there's a lot of leeway that the United States

524
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:32.720
Patent and Trademark Office gives you if you come up with a new name and you're not ready to use yet.

525
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:40.720
A decimal mark you never use, a description of the mark, that's like if it's a logo,

526
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:47.840
you know, you're kind of describing what the logo looks like, right? Now what's interesting is this

527
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.400
other thing here, design description, is very similar to description of the mark.

528
00:36:53.520 --> 00:37:00.960
So if the mark is a design, that actually describes the description of the

529
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.640
design description. Description of the mark here is more like,

530
00:37:06.080 --> 00:37:09.840
actually, I know it's going to be easier just to show you. Let me just come over here. Oh,

531
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:16.000
I got it too. The engine shuts down after a while so that everybody can use it.

532
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.520
Peter, you're teaching too well.

533
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:26.480
Yeah, let me see. I'll show you guys, I'll show you what that means in real life so you don't

534
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:38.160
have to guess. There it is, footwear. Was it a good display? And the good thing again, you guys

535
00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:43.360
are VIPs so you get the replays for like 90 days. So you can go back and look at this later

536
00:37:44.160 --> 00:37:48.000
to see what things mean. All right, so if I come over here, Nike.

537
00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:57.680
Here it is, see description of the mark, the color, the logo is blue, see how it describes

538
00:37:57.680 --> 00:38:04.400
the mark itself. That's what it's actually doing. All right, so now what's interesting though is

539
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:09.440
that there is a description of the, what's the other one? Let me go back.

540
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:20.160
Description of the mark and then design description, that's the other one. So if

541
00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:25.920
it's a design mark, it does the same thing. It just describes what the design looks like.

542
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:31.040
Disclaimer statement, you're not going to use that. You're not going to use this distinctive

543
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:37.600
link limitation thing. If you want to see all the trademarks filed in one day, just put in the date

544
00:38:37.600 --> 00:38:43.760
by clicking following date. Full mark, I suggest if you ever do a trademark search, never to choose

545
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:50.240
full mark because full mark is like the exact same trademark, which means you're not going to

546
00:38:50.240 --> 00:38:55.840
get anything that's related to it where there might be a potential likelihood of confusion,

547
00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:00.880
meaning that you might be liable for infringement. You're only going to get the exact same thing.

548
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.280
So I tend to tell people don't use that, use the non-punctuated word mark instead.

549
00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:11.200
Goods and services are exactly that. That's why I chose down here for footwear.

550
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.960
It's exactly what it's used for. International class.

551
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:25.920
The international classes, I will explain to you guys tomorrow. Every good or service

552
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:31.120
has a number associated with it. And so I'm going to show you what those numbers are and

553
00:39:31.120 --> 00:39:35.920
how you can figure them out. International registration number, that's just a registration

554
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:40.640
number. Live or dead, you already know, we walked through that. You don't have to worry about these.

555
00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:44.720
All right, now we get to the ones I like. Non-punctuated word mark, love that.

556
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:50.800
That's essentially, it has your mark in it, plus it could include more.

557
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:57.840
Original filing basis is section 1A or 1B. Other data, don't care. Owner's name,

558
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.640
if you want to see all the trees, I'm going to show you how to do that.

559
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.520
Marks that are owned by your competition.

560
00:40:02.520 --> 00:40:03.840
That's what you choose.

561
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:05.420
Owner's name.

562
00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:07.760
And you search for that company.

563
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:08.820
Name and address.

564
00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:12.080
I mean, you can put in the name and address if you want,

565
00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:14.480
but most people just use the name.

566
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:15.980
Priority date, you don't care.

567
00:40:17.020 --> 00:40:19.120
The reason, what priority date does is,

568
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.640
let's say you file an application

569
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:26.240
and somebody else files an application.

570
00:40:26.240 --> 00:40:28.820
The priority date's the earlier date.

571
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:31.540
So whoever filed first wins.

572
00:40:31.540 --> 00:40:33.420
And so you're looking at the filing date,

573
00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:35.860
but then priority date is,

574
00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:38.340
let's say you file in a foreign country

575
00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:41.740
and within six months, you seek rights in the United States.

576
00:40:41.740 --> 00:40:42.580
You can do that.

577
00:40:42.580 --> 00:40:45.540
It's called foreign filing off of a single application,

578
00:40:45.540 --> 00:40:47.560
but you have to do it within six months.

579
00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:50.460
If you do that, then it'll have a separate priority date.

580
00:40:51.740 --> 00:40:53.900
Physical filing date is the actual filing date.

581
00:40:53.900 --> 00:40:57.100
Pseudomark, you're not gonna know or care about.

582
00:40:57.100 --> 00:40:58.980
Published for opposition, you're not gonna care.

583
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.580
Prior registration, you're not gonna care.

584
00:41:00.580 --> 00:41:03.180
Registration date, you're not gonna care.

585
00:41:03.180 --> 00:41:05.740
Renewals, registration number.

586
00:41:05.740 --> 00:41:07.860
If you know the actual number of the registration

587
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:10.700
of another party, that's where you enter that.

588
00:41:10.700 --> 00:41:12.580
Section 44 is you won't do.

589
00:41:12.580 --> 00:41:15.540
Serial numbers, second you file a trademark application,

590
00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:16.360
you get that number.

591
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:18.860
You can type in that number and file the trademark.

592
00:41:20.620 --> 00:41:21.980
Serial, you won't care.

593
00:41:21.980 --> 00:41:24.300
Single design code, you won't care.

594
00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:25.300
This one, you won't care.

595
00:41:25.300 --> 00:41:30.300
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

596
00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:32.100
Yeah, you won't care about any of the rest.

597
00:41:32.100 --> 00:41:35.340
So that's kind of a breakdown of all the parts

598
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:38.180
that can be looked at for a trademark application.

599
00:41:38.180 --> 00:41:40.260
There's a lot of different parts that you can use.

600
00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:41.340
Joyce, yeah, go ahead.

601
00:41:44.380 --> 00:41:45.220
You did it again.

602
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:49.320
Under owner name and address,

603
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.700
do we have any responsibility when we're checking

604
00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:56.180
because of that common law geographical requirement?

605
00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:01.220
Does that make sense to you?

606
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:08.420
Common law, you said like Destin, Florida.

607
00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:12.140
And if I'm checking to see, I'm going in for area,

608
00:42:12.140 --> 00:42:15.580
if I'm looking, anyway, do you understand what I'm saying?

609
00:42:15.580 --> 00:42:16.460
Yeah, I'm pulling it up.

610
00:42:16.460 --> 00:42:17.300
I know what you're talking about.

611
00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:18.140
Hold on a second.

612
00:42:19.060 --> 00:42:19.900
I'll show you.

613
00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:23.580
All right, here we are on the screen again.

614
00:42:23.580 --> 00:42:25.820
Let's do a submit query.

615
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:30.760
Let's just grab Nike Motiva.

616
00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:36.920
Okay, and here you should have, see owner right there.

617
00:42:39.660 --> 00:42:41.300
And there's the address, right?

618
00:42:43.720 --> 00:42:44.560
That's it right there.

619
00:42:44.560 --> 00:42:46.220
So they filed it.

620
00:42:46.220 --> 00:42:47.700
If they have a registration,

621
00:42:47.700 --> 00:42:50.940
then all you really care about is the federal registration

622
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:52.380
because they own all the United States.

623
00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:54.220
If they filed an application,

624
00:42:55.620 --> 00:42:58.180
this is actually more complex than I'm explaining to you,

625
00:42:58.180 --> 00:43:00.020
but you asked, so I'm going to give you the answer.

626
00:43:00.020 --> 00:43:03.900
So if they filed an application

627
00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:06.620
and then the case went abandoned

628
00:43:06.620 --> 00:43:08.820
and they didn't get a registration,

629
00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:12.260
then what that tells you can be,

630
00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:14.260
maybe it was rejected

631
00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:15.840
by the United States Patent and Trademark Office,

632
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.400
whatever the case may be.

633
00:43:18.080 --> 00:43:21.640
They may still have certain legal rights to the trademark,

634
00:43:21.640 --> 00:43:23.640
even though they don't have a federal registration.

635
00:43:23.640 --> 00:43:27.980
And so like, if they just abandoned the case,

636
00:43:29.080 --> 00:43:31.840
it doesn't mean they're not using it internally.

637
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.600
The way you want to determine

638
00:43:33.600 --> 00:43:35.640
if they're using something internally

639
00:43:35.640 --> 00:43:38.200
is something I'll explain to you guys all tomorrow,

640
00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:40.200
which is called the Wayback Machine.

641
00:43:40.200 --> 00:43:44.320
It was created by MIT and using the Wayback Machine,

642
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:47.040
you can look at their prior websites

643
00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:49.840
to see if they're still using that trademark.

644
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:54.480
So, but for now, if it's a federal registration,

645
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:55.680
it doesn't even matter.

646
00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:57.280
Like doing a search doesn't even matter

647
00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:00.360
because they own all of the United States.

648
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.200
It's not just-

649
00:44:01.200 --> 00:44:03.240
I didn't realize, that's what I didn't realize

650
00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:07.440
is that the trademark gives you the only thing to say.

651
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:11.680
Yeah, but in this case here, like Nike Motiva,

652
00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:13.400
it's a 1B, which is what?

653
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.240
An intent to use application.

654
00:44:15.240 --> 00:44:17.360
It's not an actual use application.

655
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:20.800
So that means that they filed it.

656
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.520
They said, we're going to potentially use it

657
00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:26.280
and they haven't used it yet, right?

658
00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:27.680
And they have three years.

659
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.520
They get up to three years of extensions.

660
00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:35.240
Up to three years of extensions you can do, yeah.

661
00:44:36.640 --> 00:44:39.480
So, yeah, I mean, it's all, it's possible.

662
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.080
So the reason why people do this

663
00:44:42.080 --> 00:44:43.520
is they come up with a unique name

664
00:44:43.520 --> 00:44:45.560
and they're like, wow, this is a great name

665
00:44:45.560 --> 00:44:47.400
but we don't want to lose potential rights to it.

666
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.560
So let's file an application.

667
00:44:49.560 --> 00:44:51.720
We just can't file an actual use application.

668
00:44:51.720 --> 00:44:53.560
We have to file an intent to use application

669
00:44:53.560 --> 00:44:55.640
because there is,

670
00:44:57.920 --> 00:44:59.160
there is,

671
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:05.000
there is no actual use yet.

672
00:45:05.060 --> 00:45:07.780
And we also don't want another party to use it.

673
00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:10.140
So that's why the file is section 1B,

674
00:45:10.140 --> 00:45:12.040
which is an intent to use application.

675
00:45:13.560 --> 00:45:16.760
Do you tell us how much the application is cost to file?

676
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:17.600
Or is it-

677
00:45:17.600 --> 00:45:19.820
Yeah, so a trademark application,

678
00:45:19.820 --> 00:45:23.580
like my law firm charges $1,200 as a flat fee.

679
00:45:23.580 --> 00:45:27.380
And that includes the preparation of the application.

680
00:45:27.380 --> 00:45:28.660
It includes, actually includes

681
00:45:28.660 --> 00:45:31.380
the United States Patent and Trademark Office's

682
00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:33.380
fee itself as well.

683
00:45:33.380 --> 00:45:37.900
So like, cause the USPTO charges $250 or $350,

684
00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:41.940
depending upon if you file a TEAS application or not.

685
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:45.660
TEAS, tomorrow, since you guys are in VIP,

686
00:45:45.660 --> 00:45:47.220
you guys are actually gonna see

687
00:45:47.220 --> 00:45:49.020
all the parts of a trademark application.

688
00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:52.140
Cause I'm gonna walk through filing one online.

689
00:45:52.140 --> 00:45:54.920
So everybody can see every single part

690
00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:57.260
and ask any question that they want

691
00:45:57.260 --> 00:45:59.780
on an actual application.

692
00:45:59.780 --> 00:46:04.340
But the fee that I charge is like 1,200.

693
00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:08.060
I mean, law firms charge anything from like 1,500 to 2,000.

694
00:46:08.060 --> 00:46:11.340
And I've seen it up from that for an application.

695
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:14.820
But what I do is I try to do a flat fee for everything.

696
00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:19.820
So it includes the filing costs, the USPTO fee,

697
00:46:22.300 --> 00:46:25.300
all the way up into the first office section.

698
00:46:25.340 --> 00:46:29.020
So that's basically one fee for like 10 months,

699
00:46:29.020 --> 00:46:31.260
which makes people a lot.

700
00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:33.900
In my experience, it makes people a lot happier

701
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:35.780
if they can manage their legal costs

702
00:46:35.780 --> 00:46:39.560
as opposed to getting mysterious extra bills.

703
00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:45.180
There's nothing, there's a few things more annoying

704
00:46:45.180 --> 00:46:46.980
than thinking your business is doing great

705
00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:49.600
and then randomly getting a bill for 2,500 bucks.

706
00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:53.000
And you're like, what was that for?

707
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:53.840
Like, hold it.

708
00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:56.120
What are you talking, what is this?

709
00:46:56.120 --> 00:46:58.960
And so we try to make sure that none of that happens.

710
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:02.280
We just do, we try to do everything on flat fee if we can.

711
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:05.320
All right, and Peter, just for clarification too,

712
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:10.320
like didn't we have someone once they really didn't want

713
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:15.840
to fully do the whole process for the firm filing properly

714
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.200
because there's a proper way to do it

715
00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:18.680
and in proper ways, obviously,

716
00:47:18.680 --> 00:47:21.240
which is the nuances you guys get to learn here.

717
00:47:21.240 --> 00:47:23.560
And then she didn't want Peter to handle something.

718
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.200
He kept recommending it and then she came,

719
00:47:26.200 --> 00:47:28.600
when it came back 10 months later.

720
00:47:28.600 --> 00:47:30.040
Oh yeah, it crashed, it was wrong.

721
00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:32.360
He was so upset that it was, he was like,

722
00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:34.240
I tried to-

723
00:47:34.240 --> 00:47:36.320
Yeah, it was really, and just to be,

724
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.600
people know I'm not like,

725
00:47:38.600 --> 00:47:40.680
there's no obligations, obviously.

726
00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:42.800
I'm training you guys to set a good example in my heart.

727
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.800
This is not, you know, this isn't me trying to get clients.

728
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.500
I mean, if it happens, great, but that's not the intent.

729
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:54.420
But if you've never filed a trademark application

730
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:58.260
on your own, it's highly suggested that you don't

731
00:47:58.260 --> 00:48:01.340
because you make a mistake, like you choose the wrong,

732
00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:04.500
let's say you miss something in the recitation of goods

733
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:09.500
or services, or like you can end up in a situation

734
00:48:10.740 --> 00:48:12.700
where you can't fix it,

735
00:48:12.700 --> 00:48:14.660
in which case you got to file another application.

736
00:48:14.660 --> 00:48:15.940
And that's what she ended up doing.

737
00:48:15.940 --> 00:48:18.740
She ended up having to file another application

738
00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:23.540
and it was unfortunate because she lost the priority date

739
00:48:23.540 --> 00:48:25.920
of the trademark application filing.

740
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.020
Now she had been using an interstate commerce,

741
00:48:28.020 --> 00:48:31.820
but that only gave her rights in a specific like city.

742
00:48:31.820 --> 00:48:35.660
She lost legal rights throughout all the United States,

743
00:48:35.660 --> 00:48:39.260
which is, I've seen the worst nightmares in trademarks.

744
00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:41.700
I'm not trying to scare people into stuff,

745
00:48:41.700 --> 00:48:44.380
but I've seen some really sad situations.

746
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:47.180
And the thing about trademarks is they're so easy.

747
00:48:47.180 --> 00:48:50.520
Like, you know, it's not like writing a patent

748
00:48:50.520 --> 00:48:52.840
that takes a long time.

749
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:56.620
Like, these are things you can do easily.

750
00:48:56.620 --> 00:48:59.340
Like, I don't mean like filing yourself.

751
00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:01.940
I mean, it's quick.

752
00:49:01.940 --> 00:49:04.820
Like, it's not like a three week process.

753
00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:07.020
There's not tons of review.

754
00:49:07.020 --> 00:49:11.300
You know, these are things that should not be

755
00:49:11.300 --> 00:49:16.300
remarkably complex and can be filed once and done, right?

756
00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:18.420
And so you just, you don't want to make mistakes

757
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:20.500
on silly things, which again,

758
00:49:20.500 --> 00:49:22.340
is one of the reasons why I did this.

759
00:49:23.460 --> 00:49:26.900
All right, let me see if there's one more question or so.

760
00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:28.700
I'll answer that and if not, we'll close for today

761
00:49:28.700 --> 00:49:30.340
and we'll jump in tomorrow.

762
00:49:30.340 --> 00:49:32.180
It's like going in deep tomorrow.

763
00:49:34.060 --> 00:49:35.360
Miguel's been quiet.

764
00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:43.300
Miguel, are you working in training?

765
00:49:43.300 --> 00:49:45.260
Miguel's like, Miguel's recording.

766
00:49:46.700 --> 00:49:49.800
All right, well, let me close there.

767
00:49:51.100 --> 00:49:53.620
If you guys, like if you guys are in VIP

768
00:49:53.620 --> 00:49:55.380
feel like this was beneficial to you,

769
00:49:55.380 --> 00:49:57.940
I would go into Facebook group and let people know

770
00:49:58.940 --> 00:50:00.340
so that they can experience.

771
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.240
it as well. They can get so many answers that they like. But I think we have like seven or eight

772
00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:10.800
people that are in VIP. Yeah, there's a few. Not everybody can make it every day, but it is really

773
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:16.160
beneficial too to share it with other people just because the great part is other people usually

774
00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:20.720
come with questions you may not have considered, which is, I mean, this is my favorite part.

775
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:27.360
But if they have questions you maybe didn't consider, you're like, oh man, I didn't even

776
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:31.680
think of that. So it's just a really fantastic contribution. So the more people are in,

777
00:50:31.680 --> 00:50:34.800
the better, you know, the interaction just grows getting better and better.

778
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:42.480
So yeah, that is a really good point that what you find is the larger the group gets for VIP,

779
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:46.880
the more people learn in that time because they're all running into different scenarios.

780
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.000
And now you're like, whoa, I didn't even know. Yeah, they're all brilliant. You guys all are.

781
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.280
Yeah. But I'm just trying to make myself available to help everybody. So

782
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:01.040
happy to answer any questions. And so with that, one question. Yeah, go ahead, Jay.

783
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:11.280
So you see that the copyright logo on the bottom of websites, right? Does that,

784
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:18.160
you know, just on websites, I mean, obviously, nobody went and took that website and,

785
00:51:18.160 --> 00:51:22.880
you know, took the images of it and then submitted it all for, you know, copyright,

786
00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:29.600
you know, legal copyright, you know, what, what is the, can you just slap copyright logos on

787
00:51:29.600 --> 00:51:33.680
anything that you've created or? Yeah, so I'll answer that in two ways.

788
00:51:35.040 --> 00:51:41.360
Number one, the reason why Ray's laughing right now is because actually we have done exactly that.

789
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:50.640
We filed copyrights on a website. So I had a client called Bill Cope. He was out in Texas.

790
00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:56.640
And he creates websites for dentists. And what was happening is people would come see his site

791
00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:01.360
and they copy the whole site. And then they just, they have their own dental, you know,

792
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:08.080
they just copy it and run it and copy it and run it. So one day he reaches out to me and says,

793
00:52:08.080 --> 00:52:12.800
Hey, I got your name from somebody at Georgia Tech. And so it is when I worked in Atlanta,

794
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:18.640
Georgia. And he says, I don't know what to do. Like, they're just, they're copying my website.

795
00:52:18.640 --> 00:52:23.200
And, you know, and it's really frustrating. He says, and by the way, my wife's teeth are

796
00:52:23.200 --> 00:52:28.400
on my website. And so people are taking pictures of my wife teeth and my wife teeth are all over

797
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:34.640
the internet. I said, Bill, why are your wife's teeth on your website in the first place? I mean,

798
00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:42.880
that's the bigger question. But in any case, I said, well, we can't stop them under copyright

799
00:52:43.120 --> 00:52:49.040
because you have certain legal rights to your copy and your images under copyright law. So

800
00:52:49.040 --> 00:52:53.280
this is what we're going to do. We're going to print out your website. I'm going to file a $65

801
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:59.760
and back then I think it was $55 copyright application at copyright.gov. And then we're

802
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:06.320
going to send cease and desist letters to everybody. And we did. And then Bill said,

803
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:11.760
you know what, I'm paying legal fees for you to send these letters out. I want them to pay me

804
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:18.560
for the money that I'm using, you know, on you. I said, actually, that's a good idea. That's fair.

805
00:53:18.560 --> 00:53:23.040
You know, they're committing copyright infringement intentionally in most cases.

806
00:53:23.680 --> 00:53:32.640
So why not get your legal fees back? Then Bill said, well, since I made like, you know, the $750

807
00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:38.480
for the modification of a letter, you know, I've spent a lot of time and money building this.

808
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:45.680
I think I should make $2,500 for infringement. And so cease and desist letters started going out

809
00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:51.920
for $2,500 and people were paying them. Then Bill realized, hold it. I can make more money

810
00:53:52.720 --> 00:53:58.480
sending cease and desist letters out to other people than I can making dental websites.

811
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:04.400
And that's when I said, Bill, I can't represent you anymore. This is getting out of hand, buddy.

812
00:54:05.200 --> 00:54:11.520
You're starting to extort, you know, mom and pop dentists and I can't do this. This feels bad.

813
00:54:12.160 --> 00:54:16.160
It's like that logo, let's get ready to rumble, right?

814
00:54:16.160 --> 00:54:22.800
Exactly. Right. Yeah. And so that's a long way of basically saying, yes, people do actually file

815
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.880
a copyright for their website and their images. And that's how you do it. You just print off

816
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:32.400
your website and just submit it as an application. And if there's like a page or two that are really

817
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.280
important, I would file that separately because what you learn on day three is that copyrights

818
00:54:38.160 --> 00:54:45.440
protect the essence of your copyright. So if you file a 500 page document and somebody copies one

819
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:50.960
paragraph, there's a low chance of copyright infringement. But if there's like five pages

820
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.520
that are really important, then.

821
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.840
I don't know if those are gunshots or what.

822
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.760
You could almost faintly hear that rumble.

823
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:15.840
They're like bang, bang, bang, bang, like, yeah, I think those are gunshots.

824
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:16.840
Wow.

825
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:17.840
Okay, cool.

826
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:19.640
Anyways, hopefully people are okay.

827
00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:24.960
But um, so the, you can file for the copyright application for the website.

828
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.440
Now separately, how do you use that notice?

829
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:35.360
It should be circle C, and then the year that this thing was modified.

830
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:37.800
And then the owner, right?

831
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.800
It should not be circle C, copyright, the year and the owner, because that's essentially

832
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:45.800
saying copyright, copyright.

833
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:50.320
So anybody who's a lawyer laughs whenever they see copyright, copyright, they go, oh,

834
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.840
they don't understand IP law.

835
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:57.520
So you can either write the word copyright, or you can do circle C, and then the year

836
00:55:57.520 --> 00:56:00.800
and the owner, but you never write copyright, copyright.

837
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:01.800
Okay.

838
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:06.440
And then the owner can be the individual or it could be the entity that owns it.

839
00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:08.200
And we'll talk more about that on Wednesday.

840
00:56:08.200 --> 00:56:09.200
Excellent.

841
00:56:09.200 --> 00:56:10.200
Oh, it's my pleasure.

842
00:56:10.200 --> 00:56:11.200
My pleasure.

843
00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:16.720
All right, my friends, well, you have an incredible evening.

844
00:56:16.720 --> 00:56:19.080
And I'll catch you tomorrow for day two of trademarks.

845
00:56:19.080 --> 00:56:22.680
We're going to touch base a little bit on AI and trademarks as well.

846
00:56:22.680 --> 00:56:27.160
We'll be hitting based on a number of different things in trademark law.

847
00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:32.120
And then since you guys are on VIP, you actually see the actual filing of a trademark application.

848
00:56:32.120 --> 00:56:33.840
I'll demonstrate it all for you guys.

849
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:35.600
So you understand all the parts.

850
00:56:35.600 --> 00:56:38.720
So you can get all those parts together when you send it to your lawyer, which will decrease

851
00:56:38.720 --> 00:56:39.720
your cost.

852
00:56:39.720 --> 00:56:40.720
Okay.

853
00:56:40.720 --> 00:56:41.720
Very good.

854
00:56:41.720 --> 00:56:42.720
Thank you.

855
00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:43.720
All right.

856
00:56:43.720 --> 00:56:44.720
Have a great night, everybody.

857
00:56:44.720 --> 00:56:45.720
Take care.

858
00:56:45.720 --> 00:56:46.720
Thanks, Peter.

859
00:56:46.720 --> 00:56:46.720