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Time for a cup of tea.

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Nice.

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So.

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How lovely.

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How lovely.

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I hope you guys are doing good.

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Great to be with you for our second session.

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As we chat about the seven sacred pathways to intimacy.

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And this session is called welcome to our chaos.

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So we're going to go deep on that.

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And.

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Here we go.

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Cool.

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So if you're watching on Facebook world,

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then come along and join us.

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And.

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In the zoom room.

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Cool.

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It's all live happening there.

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That's good.

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Good to see.

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So we'll just hang out for a moment here.

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As we.

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Look at this.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Hope you guys are doing real good.

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We are going to be.

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Having a bunch of fun today.

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And our story time today.

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So.

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While we're,

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while we're waiting for people to just kind of turn up and jump in the

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zone.

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Jumping in on Facebook as well.

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Fun news is that we.

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Completed our book.

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And we're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be.

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We're going to be, we're going to be.

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We're going to be doing the book,

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the book is done.

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The couples book is done and the.

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Single's workbook is done for the seven sacred pathways to intimacy.

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So some of you will have seen this.

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If you are in.

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If you've seen it in the group.

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I posted a picture of this in the group.

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But let me.

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Let me share the screen.

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Share a screen with you and I'll show you.

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A picture of the book.

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Which is fun.

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Yeah.

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So here I go into a screen share.

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Okay, sweet. This is the book.

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Yeah.

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How do you like that? That's that's the ring that we told you about

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last time as well. So that ring is.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That was fun for everyone. So we're stoked.

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The book is done.

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The book is violent.

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It's it's happening.

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So everyone here in the online school,

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you guys will get a free copy of the.

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Ebook and the couples work book and the singles work book.

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They'll be coming out next week.

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So.

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Yeah, so we're really, really excited about releasing that.

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Yeah.

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Facebook looks so cool.

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Yes, it is.

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Hey, Selena.

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Hey, Lisa.

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I don't know if you can.

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Always love it when you jump in the zoom room with us.

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So we've got.

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Yeah.

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All right, sweet.

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So we're going to pray and you're going to jump into it.

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And if you're here in the zoom room.

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Watching Facebook comments as well.

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That's why I'm kind of looking away here and there.

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Is just to get a gauge on what's happening on Facebook.

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So feel free to be chatting. We love to be engaging.

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Engaged sharing the love and we love to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We'll tell our story.

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Some Q and a and stuff at the end for a bit.

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Depending on how long we've got.

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Cool.

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So.

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All right.

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Oh.

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Papa.

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Thank you for this time.

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Thank you for sharing this journey with us.

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It's been a fun week that we've had putting together the book.

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The workbooks.

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Thank you for everyone that's sharing this journey.

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Well, that's what we're so.

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Grateful for, for the standard here in the online.

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School of sonship.

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And we're so grateful for what you are doing and people's lives.

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And as we do hard things, we thank you that you are causing amazing growth and transformation

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all over the place.

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And so we give you all the glory and all the honor.

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And we ask that you would bring an authentic expression of heaven into every area of our

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lives.

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In your beautiful name, Jesus.

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Amen.

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John Ritchie's jumping in there.

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Cool.

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John, good to have you.

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Jumping in too.

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And Raymond.

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Ah, there we go.

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Some of the crew turning up.

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That's nice.

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And one fun thing for everyone as well is that we've just released a new initiative

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because we weren't busy enough creating a book.

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Raymond, good to see you.

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John, good to have you.

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We weren't busy enough creating a book, so I've also created a new opportunity for people

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too.

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So next week, I'm going to be doing a training on automated impact and income.

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So that's coming up.

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So I'm actually going to be giving away free Kingdom businesses, so I'm going to give away

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free Kingdom businesses next week.

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And so if anyone's interested in learning how you can increase your impact through the

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online space, and you don't want to hear about our story, how we managed to start with just

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myself, to in less than six months, having 14 staff and impacting tens of thousands of

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people within six months, then we're going to be sharing those, there's three secrets

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that really make it possible for people to jump into the online space.

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So we're going to be sharing those with you next week as well, for anyone who's keen.

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We'll be giving away free Kingdom businesses as well.

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Sweet.

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So there we are.

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Nian, how do I say that?

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Is that right, Nian?

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You're going to have to un-mute it.

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Can you un-mute?

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How do I say your name correctly?

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It's an Irish name, Niamh.

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Niamh?

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Niamh, yeah.

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Did you say it's Irish?

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It's Irish.

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Yes, I'm Irish.

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Fantastic.

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So are you in Ireland right now?

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Yes, I am.

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11pm.

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Oh, that's so cool.

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Did you see any of our training on St. Patrick?

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Yes, I did.

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I loved it.

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Cool.

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I just feel like you should just pray for us quickly as we jump in.

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I'd love to hear your accent, you'll probably enjoy my Kiwi accent, I love the Irish accent,

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and it'll be just great to have an Irish blessing as we get into it.

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Oh my goodness.

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Well, thank you, Benji.

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Father, I just bless you for this couple.

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I thank you for the work that you have done in their lives, for what they've been through

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and what they've come through and out the other side, and the richness of what has been

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mined in that journey.

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I thank you, Lord, that it's been your work and that you make it available to everybody.

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But this couple have walked that path and they will be sharing that, and I thank you

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for that.

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So Lord, we just bless this time and we pray that it will be a revelation, insight, and

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actionable for people who listen, be they single, be they a couple, whatever their state

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in life may be.

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And we just thank you that you would be with us at this time.

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In Jesus' name.

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In Jesus' name.

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Thanks, Kim.

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Amen.

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Thank you so much.

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Niamh, is that how it's said?

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That's right.

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Well done.

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Wow, great.

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Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

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Thank you for sharing and praying for us.

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So, last week, when did we get to?

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Wedding, I think.

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No, getting engaged.

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Yes, we talked about getting engaged.

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We told you our crazy story, how Alana totally shot me down.

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If you haven't heard the build-up to how Alana completely shot me down and then turned

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it around from that to we decided we were getting married in the same conversation.

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And then we had a wedding day the next day.

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If you haven't seen that part, then make sure you check out part one and jump into the guides,

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and that's quite hilarious.

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So, we talked about boundaries.

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We used all sorts of naughty words that you're only allowed to say if you're married.

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But we're pretty, we're just pretty, like, we'll just use the words for body parts and

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things like that in this training in general.

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So, what we talked about last week, just building up to this, was our boundaries, that we had

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boundaries that we put in place.

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So, for us, we had boundaries.

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Kissing was okay, but what was I not allowed to touch on you?

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Pretty much anywhere covered by underwear.

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So, we had physical boundaries, we had time boundaries, and accountability.

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Those were the three main things that we talked about that we had in place to protect ourselves

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and to try and set a good example.

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for those who would follow us um yeah yeah to be about reproach yep so i was a pastor at the time

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as well so i was trying to be doubly doubly good on all of that um on that side of boundaries so

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what we um i just want to what i want to try and prep for you is we're going to share how

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chaos like how we ended up in a whole bunch of chaos um in our story but that was even

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though we tried to do everything right you know like we kept our boundaries we didn't break those

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boundaries once we you know we're happy with a check up from the neck up on the kissing

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um but hands weren't allowed to go like alana said anywhere there was underwear there was no hands

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and we kept those boundaries and we married as virgins i'm the only guy alana's ever kissed

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and as soon as we got together we started doing you know communication training and relationship

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silk stuff yeah um read a bunch of books we we thought we were preparing ourselves

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really well yeah what was coming and then like how could anything ever go wrong

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and so i'm just we're trying to paint a picture of like you try and do everything right right you

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think you you think you know what to expect you think you've prepared you think you've got it

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going on and you think you're being good kids right so we um

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um uh yeah so married as virgins i'm a past this kid never really did anything that you know like

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sexual with anyone else ever so we've walked like our whole lives preparing for this moment we've

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walked our whole lives waiting for marriage we've walked our whole lives like okay this is it so

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we're total sex rookies when it comes to the honeymoon we've got no idea about that or what

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was your like you know your family culture around sex um one of the conversations that stands out

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in my mind as a teenager was around the dinner table having dinner um me and my siblings were

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all teenagers and dad said if you come home pregnant don't come home so i feel like that

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really sort of encompasses what the ethos and sort of the ideas around sex were like it just

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was dirty it wasn't safe just don't go there um and yeah we just it was just to the so i think

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subconsciously i had this it's not okay for you and you shouldn't do it even in the confines of

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marriage um because leading up to it it had this really negative um atmosphere around it

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so yeah and um actually in our last session um on the origins of gospel part two we actually

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talked about the guys who started bringing that into the church which is jerome and augustine

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way way way back and they taught that anyone who was married was a second class citizen

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how crazy is that so and then i was even saying to benji just last night that actually right

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throughout history for women um sex has sort of not been okay it's been used against them and

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um sex has been for the sole purpose of man in a lot of cases and that's sort of how in my opinion

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it's been presented throughout world history women were forced into marriages and um you know all of

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those types of things so i think actually there's a whole historical context behind

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how women view sex on a self-conscious level

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so i know we got married a total of six rookies there was a cool part right um so some one part

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that i talked about in the book that we just loved which was really beautiful partners just after we

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got married so we we got married we were driving away from the reception and um and so leaving the

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reception uh we went and got changed but we still you know acted like we weren't married then we're

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like okay we're not gonna separate rooms we got changed and all that and separate rooms for that

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just for that moment and even so we went to our you know our hotel um but when we were driving

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in the car something was so special this atmosphere of holiness um that the present the presence of

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god came in the car in a tangible way that we were both looking at each other going wow like what is

260
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this it's such an amazing atmosphere of holiness that you know we weren't praying for it or anything

261
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like that but just this beautiful tangible um tangible amazing atmosphere of holiness that

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this thing was just god just honoring the journeys that we uh that we walk it's like wow this is

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amazing so um on our sex night like our sex night our honeymoon night it's sex night on our honeymoon

264
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night um we didn't know what it was going to be like and i just said to alana look obviously you

265
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know we're i'm really keen to um get into the action but we you know i was trying to take the

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pressure off you know i was trying to take the pressure off and just make sure it's like

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trying to create a safe space and safe atmosphere really because we both had

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idea what to expect. Although we had read enough to know that it probably wasn't going to be fun.

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So or you know not necessarily the most amazing sex in your life on the first time ever. So um

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you know actually I mean quite an interesting like in the build-up books I think I might have

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just touched on this last week as well but we had all sorts of build-up books all sorts of you know

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things like that so we had that anyway yeah our honeymoon was fantastic it was great it was loads

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of sex and we were absolutely stoked on it we I managed to surprise Alana because I don't usually

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surprise her but I managed to surprise her on this um with a trip to Australia because at the time

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um we basically had no money at all I was a full-time volunteer pastor um with next to no

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support and um and we didn't even know how we're gonna eat let alone you know do fancy honeymoons

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but in fact I got to book it so I booked two weeks at a five-star um hotel in the on the

278
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gold coast in Australia not knowing how I was going to get flights or you know or anything but

279
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anyway God provided which was awesome so we had a really fantastic honeymoon um uh yeah so living

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it up in luxury in a five-star hotel on the gold coast um and Alana had no idea that was coming

281
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she thought I would be driving around somewhere so I managed to surprise her with that I hadn't

282
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had a passport so I managed to get all those things neatly together um and boom we were away

283
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so that was fantastic honeymoon was amazing I was like yes marriage is awesome and then we came

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back to reality we came back in it um for those who are following on from last week you'll remember

285
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:47.840
that when we you know um Alana we used to share where you were at you know before so I've come

286
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down to China for sort of a break for a year so I've been working in Christian ministry through

287
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a series of events while I was working there I was extremely burnt out um I was sort of at the

288
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bottom of every barrel emotionally, spiritually, physically and I just needed to go somewhere where

289
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um I could literally just sit on the couch and watch this out the window because that's sort of

290
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where I was at I also wanted to get out of my parents house and have the expectations that

291
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were on me not on me um and to sort of explore it just explore outside of the confines of um

292
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my family home basically um and the expectations of where I was to go to church and all of that

293
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kind of thing and so I went down to China with the specific mindset I was going to be there for

294
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:43.280
a year and I was going to leave uh and then Benji and I started going out and it wasn't really like

295
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I knew what I was getting myself into in a way I mean I was marrying Benji and he was called to

296
00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:53.360
Tiana but it wasn't really until a little while after we were married that the reality of that

297
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session I was stuck there and I didn't have my family around I didn't have good friends around

298
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:07.440
and what actually that meant for me and the reality of it like that hit really really hard for me

299
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:13.440
yeah whereas for myself right God spoke to me when I was 17 before I was even following him

300
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:21.760
properly you know like um and called me to Te Anau not specifically Te Anau but Fiordland

301
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and I was like yes and so from the time I was 17 I had been doing absolutely everything within my

302
00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:33.440
power to get there uh so I was like yes got such a sense of calling for this place we're here this

303
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.160
is awesome we're going to change the world and you know like so we're in two totally different

304
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.800
places um historically because Alana and I have been doing ministry together we've been doing

305
00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:46.240
ministry together for we've been married 11 years but we've been doing ministry together for over

306
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:51.440
15 years so we had several years together doing ministry and like missions trips and seeing like

307
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:56.000
outpourings and God break out and radical supernatural stuff and signs and wonders

308
00:18:56.560 --> 00:19:04.080
and Alana just carries this you know seer grace and really that seer grace got shut down during

309
00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:08.160
the spiritual abuse period we're still working towards seeing it coming alive I see bits of it

310
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.560
coming back but before that she would be seeing angels on a regular basis and we'd be having

311
00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:18.480
all sorts of angelic encounters and demonic like it was all sorts of like crazy fun supernatural

312
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:24.560
like wow so she was I looked up to her in terms of the supernatural dynamic because she just

313
00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:30.720
naturally could see in the spirit really well um the one of the crazy things is about that

314
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.560
spiritual abuse period that she went through it actually shut that whole side of her down

315
00:19:36.560 --> 00:19:43.120
and um and I think we're just seeing you know like it popping up um coming alive a little bit

316
00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:50.800
more and more now a little bit a little bit not not huge but compared to um compared to

317
00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:57.360
the place that we've been it's it's pretty cool so I think Benji in some ways thought he was

318
00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:59.360
marrying who I was and

319
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.400
Then we got married and the reality hit him,

320
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.840
that actually I was pretty broken.

321
00:20:04.840 --> 00:20:09.520
So, yeah, I was just so burnt out.

322
00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:12.600
I was really missing my support network and my family.

323
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And I was about as far away from me as I could get

324
00:20:16.520 --> 00:20:18.120
in New Zealand and we were broke.

325
00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:18.960
So.

326
00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.080
I remember not long after the honeymoon,

327
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we got back and we're sitting on the couch

328
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:28.600
and Alana's just in tears, sitting there in tears.

329
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:32.240
Basically, I was like, she just looks depressed.

330
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.080
And as a husband, that's a great way

331
00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:35.760
to feel like a total failure.

332
00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:39.360
Like when your wife looks depressed, you're like, wow,

333
00:20:39.360 --> 00:20:42.360
this is what you get when you marry me, you get depressed.

334
00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:43.400
Like, yay.

335
00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.760
So I was like, I know how to fix it though, right?

336
00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:48.760
Because I'm a genius.

337
00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:50.360
I was sure I was a genius.

338
00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:53.080
And I was like, I just sat next to her on the couch

339
00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:55.280
and I was like, babe, let's just pray in tongues.

340
00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:57.560
So I start praying in tongues and she was just,

341
00:20:57.560 --> 00:21:00.880
I just looked at her, just tears rolling down her face.

342
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.800
And it was at that moment that I realized

343
00:21:02.800 --> 00:21:04.600
that she wasn't loving this idea.

344
00:21:04.600 --> 00:21:06.160
Like, yeah.

345
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.880
I was like, oh, maybe I'll just pray in tongues

346
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.360
by myself then.

347
00:21:10.360 --> 00:21:13.680
And so, so it was like, for me as well,

348
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.120
like my heart sank because I'm like, ah, in my mind,

349
00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.560
like if you've got a problem, then you fix it

350
00:21:19.560 --> 00:21:22.360
by praying in tongues and then the answer comes, right?

351
00:21:22.360 --> 00:21:23.360
That was my rationale.

352
00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:26.520
Like I'm just full on revivalist glory, Holy Ghost mode.

353
00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:28.920
That's where Alana had been as well.

354
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:30.760
I was in this real supernatural space,

355
00:21:30.760 --> 00:21:34.400
but the spiritual abuse had just left that tank empty.

356
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.440
And it was just like, to try and dig out of that tank,

357
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.680
it was just like, I'm like, I'm empty there.

358
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.280
I can't go deep in there.

359
00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:44.440
So we started realizing, man,

360
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:46.280
things aren't kind of going the way

361
00:21:46.280 --> 00:21:48.760
that we thought they were going to be going right,

362
00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:50.440
right after the honeymoon.

363
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:52.160
Like, oh, this is interesting.

364
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.240
And like, so something that was beautiful, right?

365
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:58.080
All the way through as we,

366
00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:00.000
you can probably tell that we're really fun people.

367
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.720
Like we've had crazy amounts of fun all through our marriage,

368
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:05.600
even in the times when it's been hard,

369
00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:07.160
even in the times when it's been really hard,

370
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.240
we've had a genuine love for each other,

371
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.880
even if we're like, ah, I can't even connect with you,

372
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:15.960
but I really love you, but ugh.

373
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.840
So there's been really fantastic times

374
00:22:19.840 --> 00:22:22.480
and also really hard tragic times all the way through.

375
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.880
So we're going to like unpack for you now

376
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.440
some of the sacred pathways.

377
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:28.200
So I'm just going to start like sharing with you

378
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.240
what those pathways are.

379
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.320
And then you can kind of like see where our journey was

380
00:22:35.320 --> 00:22:39.800
and what was causing the chaos, which was me.

381
00:22:39.800 --> 00:22:42.960
And then, yeah, we'll kind of chat from there.

382
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:47.960
So huge, huge part, I'm going to fast forward

383
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:49.480
and then we'll come back,

384
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:54.480
but a huge part of our marriage problems

385
00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:58.040
came all from me, right?

386
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.120
But I was totally in this narcissistic place

387
00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:05.520
where, you know, narcissism is just basically blindness,

388
00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:07.760
right, if you want to sum it up, it's blindness.

389
00:23:07.760 --> 00:23:11.920
I was blind to the fact that I was the catalyst of our chaos.

390
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.160
I also think that I had quite obvious problems

391
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.640
that I was admitting to, that I had problems there.

392
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.840
So that made it almost easy for Benji to put the blame on me

393
00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:24.600
because here I was obviously with an issue

394
00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:25.840
and I couldn't deny it.

395
00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:31.120
Yeah, whereas I was like, you don't just have issues,

396
00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:33.720
like you are the issue, you know?

397
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.200
It's like all of these problems in our marriage,

398
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.040
they come from you.

399
00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:43.200
And so I was in this place where just all the judgment

400
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.480
was I was like, I love her, but like, she's the issue.

401
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:47.560
And so when I'm praying for our marriage,

402
00:23:47.560 --> 00:23:48.760
I'm like praying for her,

403
00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:51.040
like she's the one that needs help here.

404
00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:53.480
Like, I'm like, oh God, help her, please,

405
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.160
that lady's got issues, like we need help,

406
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.000
Jesus, please help her.

407
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.720
But I'm praying and fasting for our marriage.

408
00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.160
I'm praying and fasting for Alana to get help, not me.

409
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:04.000
I'm like, what?

410
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.920
I don't know who, like, I'm obviously doing good.

411
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.760
She's not doing good.

412
00:24:08.760 --> 00:24:11.000
She's causing, so that was kind of where we were at.

413
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:15.240
And it meant that I had all these false judgments

414
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:20.080
in my heart towards her saying that she's the issue.

415
00:24:20.080 --> 00:24:21.680
And nothing could get through to me, right?

416
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:23.280
It didn't matter how many times

417
00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:26.840
or how many different angles that she communicated from.

418
00:24:28.280 --> 00:24:32.840
And that same conversation again and again.

419
00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:34.200
But it didn't matter, you know,

420
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.920
like it didn't matter where she was coming from,

421
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.360
like, she couldn't get through to me

422
00:24:38.360 --> 00:24:41.080
that I might be causing some of these problems.

423
00:24:42.760 --> 00:24:45.040
And God couldn't get through to me either.

424
00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:48.080
The only thing that she finally eventually was able

425
00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:49.880
to communicate in a language

426
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:54.120
that I could just manage to understand a little bit

427
00:24:54.120 --> 00:24:55.960
was extreme levels of pain.

428
00:24:57.560 --> 00:24:58.560
That was the only language

429
00:24:58.560 --> 00:25:00.760
that I could actually understand a little bit.

430
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.840
was when I was in excruciating pain to the point of desperation where I'm like oh my gosh like

431
00:25:05.840 --> 00:25:12.720
something has to happen for our marriage like I'm so desperate right now and it's only really in

432
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:20.480
that place of desperation that that my um like my blind eyes opened just to crack to the possibility

433
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:26.800
that maybe I was causing some of these issues too maybe it maybe it wasn't exclusively Lana maybe I

434
00:25:26.800 --> 00:25:30.320
was causing some of these issues too so we're going to pause there and we're going to go back

435
00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:35.840
and then we're going to like unpack all these issues up um so the second sacred pathways to

436
00:25:35.840 --> 00:25:39.760
intimacy which you'll see in the book and in the workbooks which everyone's going to get a free

437
00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:49.040
copy of those next week but um what you've got is uh the first one is spiritual so that's the

438
00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:56.720
first pathway so for um uh I'll just list the pathway pathways and then we'll go we'll go

439
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.160
through it but you've got the spiritual pathway that's the first one right so that really a huge

440
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:05.120
part of that is identity and that's why I talk so much about identity and operating systems and the

441
00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:09.920
book covers that well but um I talk about identity all the time um because that's the spiritual

442
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:15.200
pathway so if you if you've got identity issues they're all kind of connected to the spiritual

443
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:21.120
so um the spiritual pathway is the first one and these first three pathways are the foundational

444
00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:26.160
pathways okay so you've got three pathways that are the foundational pathways that are going to

445
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:32.080
like these are going to set the tone and set the atmosphere for your whole marriage so the first

446
00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:37.200
one is the spiritual side of things if you're not you know secure in your identity there's no way

447
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:42.160
you can be a powerful person right so if you're not secure in your identity you cannot have a

448
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.120
healthy functional relationship it's going to be dysfunctional your capacity to have healthy

449
00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:54.640
relationships is determined by uh your ability to walk in your identity so the spiritual pathway the

450
00:26:54.640 --> 00:27:02.320
first one that actually dictates our ability to receive and express love so that's the first

451
00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:08.720
pathway our ability to receive and to express love and you know like if we can't be receiving

452
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:13.040
expressing love from god then we kind of like our tanks will run dry really quickly i was just

453
00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:18.240
talking to someone this week um you know a friend of ours just want to talk about how like her

454
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:24.880
relationship a little bit it's not just about how she feels like her her her partner is her anchor

455
00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:30.880
oh i just think about a different one to you you were talking to that friend

456
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.520
all right well um well she was just saying that you know like

457
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.920
she doesn't know jesus but for her in her world if there's a relationship problem her whole world

458
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:50.000
is completely shaken to the core because her relationship is her source so if there's a

459
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:56.000
relationship issue she's like i'm completely i'm not functional because that's my source

460
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:01.680
so all her love all her stability all her security is gone the moment that there's a relationship

461
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:07.440
challenge so that's why the spiritual pathway is the found first foundational pathway after

462
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:16.560
the spiritual pathway it's the emotional pathway um so the emotional pathway it determines um now

463
00:28:16.560 --> 00:28:23.440
let me it's evading my brain for a second here yeah grab the book the emotional pathway

464
00:28:24.320 --> 00:28:38.000
determines our ability to express like to um it determines our capacity to express love

465
00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:44.960
right so if your emotions aren't in check if someone's got a really short fuse that they're

466
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:52.400
always breaking you know like uh if they're always flipping out we we're talking about in the book

467
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.400
it's called amygdala hijacks but if you're always having emotional meltdowns or breakdowns

468
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:01.440
you're not a safe person right you can't express love so we'll go deeper in that but the emotional

469
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:07.440
pathway determines your ability to actually express love um your ability to communicate

470
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:14.480
love effectively right determines how effective you are at communicating love so um the third

471
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:22.000
pathway is the intellectual pathway and that determines your ability to so you've got the

472
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:27.120
spiritual pathway that determines your ability to receive and express love the emotional pathway

473
00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:33.200
that determines how effective you are at communicating love and then the intellectual

474
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:39.520
pathway that determines your ability to effectively communicate love to your spouse specifically in

475
00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:46.240
the way that they want to be loved and then so that's the foundational three and then you've got

476
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:50.960
we call the fourth one an essential pathway which we call the forgotten pathway because

477
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:59.440
the five love languages books it talks about you know um quality time acts of service gifts words

478
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:05.840
and touch. And even though they kind of allude to it, that it's not necessarily always sexual,

479
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.640
most people don't think about that. And so they think there's, you know, there's five love

480
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:15.840
languages. So if it's touch, then that's probably, you know, then they want to be having a lot of

481
00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:19.600
sex, like they're a touch person. So yeah, they want to snuggle and things like that, but they

482
00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:24.400
want like, really a touch person is a sex person, right? So that, so most people kind of like,

483
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.240
weld that in their mind. So we call it the forgotten pathway, the sensual pathway,

484
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:33.520
which is non-sexual touch. And so that's, sorry, that's the fourth pathway. And then the last

485
00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:40.080
three pathways, we call them make it or break it pathways. So the make it or break it pathways are

486
00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:49.760
first of all financial. And these, these pathways, they really start showing up what's in your

487
00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:56.480
foundations. You know, so whatever's in your foundations, they start really showing up here.

488
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:02.560
So the make it or break it pathways, the first one is financial. And so that has a huge bearing

489
00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:09.520
on how you live. It determines whether or not money is your servant or the master in your

490
00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:13.760
marriage. So that's the financial pathway, determines whether the money is the servant

491
00:31:13.760 --> 00:31:18.800
or the master in your marriage. It's not just about how much money you have. It's actually

492
00:31:18.800 --> 00:31:25.120
about your relationship to money, you know, like is, you know, are you a slave to money in the way

493
00:31:25.120 --> 00:31:30.800
that you think about money? Is money got a higher value to you than obedience to God? Because if

494
00:31:30.800 --> 00:31:37.040
you, if money's higher in your value system than obedience to God is, then money can control you,

495
00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:41.360
money will become your master in that way. But then money will also control you,

496
00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:46.560
secular money will also control you as if you have none, right? It dictates your time, it dictates,

497
00:31:46.560 --> 00:31:50.560
you know, what you can do, what you can't do, what you can eat, if you can go out, if you can't go

498
00:31:50.560 --> 00:31:55.440
out, if you can hire a babysitter or not. So that's the financial pathway, determines whether

499
00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:03.440
or not money is the master or the servant in your marriage. The sixth pathway is the leadership

500
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:09.200
pathway, which is who's making the decisions, who's wearing the pants. Where do you live?

501
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.160
Yeah, where do you live? Who's making those decisions about where you live?

502
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:17.680
Alana, I joke about that, who wears the pants one, because I'm a big,

503
00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:25.680
I'm just, I think sex is great, I was like, wait, wait, let's not fight about who's wearing the

504
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:31.440
pants, let's just not wear pants. To me, that's a better idea. But the leadership pathway,

505
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:38.000
that's all about the decision-making process, like how are you communicating, you know, do you have a

506
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:42.560
codependent relationship, do you have a power struggle relationship, or do you have a powerful

507
00:32:42.560 --> 00:32:46.720
people relationship? So we're going to break all those things down going forward in the journey,

508
00:32:47.280 --> 00:32:54.640
and then there's the final one, which is, yes, the sexual pathway. Yes, so that determines

509
00:32:57.120 --> 00:33:03.920
how sex is stewarded in your marriage, you know, is sex safe, or is sex weaponized,

510
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:09.440
you know, is someone using sex for manipulation, are they using it for control, are they using it

511
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:17.040
for punishment, or is, you know, is it mutual, is it fun, is it painful, is it a health issue,

512
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:21.520
all of those dynamics. So those are the seven sacred pathways. And a lot of the breakdown

513
00:33:21.520 --> 00:33:28.400
relationships, often people, it'll come under those last three, that's where a lot of tension

514
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:33.200
for people comes in, and reasons why relationships break down and fail.

515
00:33:34.080 --> 00:33:38.080
Yeah, those are recognized as the top three reasons why relationships fail,

516
00:33:38.080 --> 00:33:44.320
the financial pathway, the leadership pathway, the sexual pathway, but actually the deeper issue,

517
00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:49.600
which people don't often identify as the reason they're having problems there, is the foundational

518
00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:55.680
pathways, which is the spiritual, the emotional, and the intellectual. But people aren't very

519
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:02.480
conscious of those pathways, they're not very, people aren't very conscious of the spiritual

520
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.720
side of their lives, they aren't conscious of the fact that they've got an identity crisis

521
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:11.840
that's causing chaos in all parts of their life, they aren't often conscious of the fact that

522
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:16.960
it's their emotions and their triggering and their reactions that's actually shutting down

523
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.159
their ability to communicate the love that they have in their heart for that person. So

524
00:34:21.040 --> 00:34:23.600
if we jump into our story,

525
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:35.520
what would you say, Babe, was one of the most classical painful moments for us?

526
00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:38.560
You wanting sex and me not wanting it.

527
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:44.800
There you go, very good. How many times have we had a conversation about

528
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.239
me trying to initiate sex and you not being interested, apart from last night?

529
00:34:54.080 --> 00:34:59.760
Way too many, I couldn't even count. It was often.

530
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.840
Oh, because probably, I mean, we've been married over 11 years.

531
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.040
So if you take, let me get my calculator out.

532
00:35:07.160 --> 00:35:13.280
So if you go to 11 times 365, that's 4015.

533
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:15.080
So that's your conversations.

534
00:35:15.080 --> 00:35:20.200
That's how many, that at bare minimum is how many times I've thought about having sex with you.

535
00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:22.560
At bare minimum, at bare minimum.

536
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.960
That's that's about how many times I would have thought about, you know, sharing that conversation.

537
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.840
Yeah. You know, it's probably a lot.

538
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:40.280
If I was to be really gracious, I might say hundreds of times we had the conversation.

539
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.480
But it was years of that conversation.

540
00:35:43.520 --> 00:35:46.080
We haven't had that conversation for years now, which is really cool.

541
00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:49.440
But here's kind of how a classic, how I would classically go.

542
00:35:49.640 --> 00:35:54.960
Alana comes to bed, which I mean, would want to go to bed after, like, right.

543
00:35:55.400 --> 00:36:05.280
So I try to, I'm unconsciously thinking of the fact that Alana needs an earlier night for it to be a better chance.

544
00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:07.080
Right. So I'm like, hey, let's go to bed.

545
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.920
And she's like, oh, maybe we'll just watch another episode of this.

546
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.320
And I'm like, oh, I'll just start getting ready for bed.

547
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.200
And like, so I'm in bed, lying in bed, waiting for her to get there.

548
00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:18.720
And she's marking a round something product.

549
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:21.360
I'm like, oh, my gosh, what does she have to do?

550
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:22.320
It's like, let's go.

551
00:36:22.640 --> 00:36:25.520
And so she gets to bed conveniently.

552
00:36:25.520 --> 00:36:26.600
It's late now.

553
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.360
So I know that she's already, you know.

554
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:39.040
But also, he probably didn't realize that I could tell during the day if he was going to ask me that question at night.

555
00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:42.440
And I think a lot of it was subconscious on his part.

556
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:50.040
But it might be in the way that he had to be in the day or that he tried to kiss me or that he took the rubbish out.

557
00:36:50.040 --> 00:36:57.480
Like, I could tell exactly his formula throughout the day, if I do this equals this.

558
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.400
So I would spend the whole day knowing we were going to have that conversation.

559
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.200
That's why I didn't want to go to bed.

560
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.120
So he probably thought he was being a genius.

561
00:37:08.200 --> 00:37:09.840
OK, so here we go.

562
00:37:10.040 --> 00:37:11.040
Oh, yeah.

563
00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:14.640
So here's our conversation.

564
00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:16.080
Our conversation would go like this.

565
00:37:16.080 --> 00:37:17.560
You finally get to bed or whatever.

566
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:21.320
I'd initiate and she wouldn't be interested.

567
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.160
And then we'd have like a casual negotiation.

568
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.360
Like, oh, yeah. Like, are you sure?

569
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:27.800
Like, could I talk you into that?

570
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.440
And then my sexual appeal was like.

571
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:33.280
They do fast.

572
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:36.280
Well, like, tragic.

573
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:45.680
I would not feel very like I felt like I had no ability to seduce my wife at all.

574
00:37:45.680 --> 00:37:47.120
I was like, man, I am bad at this.

575
00:37:47.120 --> 00:37:49.360
Like, I am bad at this.

576
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.720
So anyway, we kind of get through that kind of stage of the negotiation.

577
00:37:53.720 --> 00:37:57.480
And it'll be kind of clear to me that she just really wasn't interested in anything at all.

578
00:37:57.680 --> 00:37:59.800
And you try one more time.

579
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:01.800
Well, you got to try one more time.

580
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.800
And then I'd be like, OK, total fail.

581
00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:08.360
And then that's the moment then that I would start sulking.

582
00:38:10.080 --> 00:38:12.720
So so I'd be like, well,

583
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:15.920
I'm offended that you're not interested in me.

584
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.120
I'm obviously the sexiest man in the room.

585
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.320
And and you just know you're not interested.

586
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:24.200
So I'd be like, I'm kind of offended by that.

587
00:38:24.200 --> 00:38:30.640
And then I get emotional and I'd be like, and so here's the thing about the emotional

588
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:34.920
pathway of how the emotional pathway dictates your.

589
00:38:36.600 --> 00:38:40.480
Effectiveness at communicating love is your emotional,

590
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:44.640
the emotional pathway dictates the effectiveness of your ability

591
00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:49.640
to communicate love because it's your emotions that start setting the atmosphere.

592
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.160
And the moment that you're you create an unsafe atmosphere.

593
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.880
There's not going to be any vulnerability.

594
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.400
Right, vulnerability runs away from an unsafe atmosphere.

595
00:39:04.600 --> 00:39:08.240
So the moment you create an unsafe atmosphere with your emotions, which,

596
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.960
you know, it doesn't have to be much to create an unsafe atmosphere,

597
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:17.000
just a little like tone of voice or a little switch in your attitude.

598
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:17.800
And it's just like.

599
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:21.560
You know, like.

600
00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:24.240
We're off to get across to the B&O.

601
00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:28.000
So I create this unsafe atmosphere,

602
00:39:28.520 --> 00:39:31.120
which if you imagine snails, right?

603
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:34.240
You feel like they fully extend their antennae out when they're like

604
00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:35.200
having a great day.

605
00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:38.040
They're out there in the sun like, yeah, everything's great.

606
00:39:38.040 --> 00:39:39.640
It's a sunny day and they're feeling good.

607
00:39:39.640 --> 00:39:44.120
They're like kind of like snail charting down the road and they ride up

608
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:46.760
and they feel totally safe.

609
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:47.360
It's awesome.

610
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:48.840
It's like, oh, look at that snail.

611
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:50.040
It's so heavy.

612
00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:52.280
And then someone stands on the pavement or whatever.

613
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.280
But or it's a fright, right?

614
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.720
And it just the first thing that happens is it's antennae retract.

615
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.000
And then after it's antennae.

616
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.920
If it's really scared, it goes right inside its shell.

617
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.680
So it's completely, it's just sucked right inside there.

618
00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:11.640
And that's a great picture for what vulnerability's like.

619
00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:14.400
Like the moment something's unsafe,

620
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.800
first our antennae go back,

621
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.040
and then if it really, we confirm it's not safe,

622
00:40:18.040 --> 00:40:21.240
then we suck up right inside our shell.

623
00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:23.640
And so that's one of the things

624
00:40:23.640 --> 00:40:25.080
that the emotional pathway is doing,

625
00:40:25.080 --> 00:40:28.120
is dictating the safety in an atmosphere,

626
00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:30.560
which then determines the level of vulnerability

627
00:40:30.560 --> 00:40:32.880
that people can express in that atmosphere,

628
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.320
how safe they're feeling, all of those things.

629
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.040
So I created this unsafe atmosphere right away.

630
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:44.880
And I was often like, all day, I felt unsafe.

631
00:40:45.240 --> 00:40:47.320
So it wasn't just in that one moment,

632
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:52.040
it was all the time that I felt unsafe in our own bedroom

633
00:40:52.040 --> 00:40:54.520
or in our own house

634
00:40:54.520 --> 00:40:57.520
because of the whole atmosphere around it.

635
00:40:57.520 --> 00:41:01.360
So then I would, I'd stop for a little bit,

636
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:05.680
and then we'd have our most dreaded conversation after that.

637
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:11.720
And then after a while of our most dreaded conversation,

638
00:41:11.720 --> 00:41:13.440
going through the exact conversation,

639
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.720
the exact dead-end conversation that got nowhere,

640
00:41:16.720 --> 00:41:18.120
said the same things,

641
00:41:18.120 --> 00:41:19.720
it was almost like you could script it.

642
00:41:19.720 --> 00:41:21.840
Lana basically didn't even want to communicate

643
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:24.000
because she was like, you're gonna say this,

644
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.120
I'm gonna say this.

645
00:41:25.160 --> 00:41:28.960
And then that, like that silence was the worst for me.

646
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:33.600
I'm like, I'm dying here and you've got nothing to say!

647
00:41:33.600 --> 00:41:36.280
And she's just like, aw, just trying to ride it out.

648
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:41.040
I'm like, I'm in so much pain and you can't even talk to me!

649
00:41:41.040 --> 00:41:42.800
I was like, ah!

650
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:47.800
And so that would kind of be like the end.

651
00:41:50.120 --> 00:41:51.320
That would pretty much be the end.

652
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:52.720
Kat, good to see you.

653
00:41:55.600 --> 00:41:59.920
And then we'd go to bed, like go to sleep,

654
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:01.840
way later than we planned to,

655
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:05.560
both kind of emotionally drained out.

656
00:42:05.560 --> 00:42:06.920
Kat, good to see you.

657
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.640
We're both at that point, we're going to sleep,

658
00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:12.600
we're both emotionally drained out,

659
00:42:12.600 --> 00:42:15.760
we're way tired than we needed to be,

660
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:18.360
way later than we planned on going to bed,

661
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:21.880
going to sleep and not feeling very connected.

662
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:23.560
And then the next day,

663
00:42:23.560 --> 00:42:27.160
waking up with a sink atmosphere the next day as well.

664
00:42:27.160 --> 00:42:29.920
So that to me, I was like,

665
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:32.080
this is the problem in our marriage right here.

666
00:42:32.080 --> 00:42:33.400
This is it.

667
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:34.920
This is the problem.

668
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:39.920
You're not happy to have sex every time I want to have sex.

669
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.680
And that's the problem.

670
00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:43.600
You're the problem.

671
00:42:43.600 --> 00:42:45.920
Yeah, you're the problem, right?

672
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:47.800
So that's what I was like,

673
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.400
this is obviously the problem right here, is Alana.

674
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.080
And like I said, this went on for years.

675
00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:55.720
It wasn't just once or twice that I got shut down.

676
00:42:55.720 --> 00:42:57.120
You know, like in the worst of it,

677
00:42:57.120 --> 00:42:59.640
we would go months without having sex.

678
00:42:59.640 --> 00:43:01.800
I know one guy who was a student for us,

679
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:04.000
he lived in a sexless marriage for,

680
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.200
I think over 30 years before it ended.

681
00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:10.200
He was like, obviously if he was married for 30 years,

682
00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:11.480
he's kind of an older guy.

683
00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:14.440
So that marriage ended, I don't know all the details,

684
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.720
but if you don't have sex for 30 years in your marriage,

685
00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:19.880
it's probably a sign that it's not that healthy.

686
00:43:20.680 --> 00:43:23.760
And then after that marriage ended,

687
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:26.040
he got remarried and he came to one of our training schools

688
00:43:26.040 --> 00:43:29.040
as an older couple in their 60s.

689
00:43:29.040 --> 00:43:31.840
And we always do sex talks at those training schools

690
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.000
and that mainly because it's young people,

691
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.000
but they were so happy to be sharing about how the,

692
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.080
now in their 60s, they both had the best sex lives

693
00:43:39.080 --> 00:43:40.000
that they ever had.

694
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.240
And so they were like, oh, oh, oh.

695
00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:46.520
But this guy, 30 years in a sexless marriage.

696
00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:50.080
Actually, in some studies that I looked at,

697
00:43:50.080 --> 00:43:54.720
it's someone who did a survey of a whole bunch of people.

698
00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:59.720
Their statistics came back that 10 to 15% of people

699
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.800
had not had sex with their spouse

700
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:06.720
in the last six months to a year.

701
00:44:08.160 --> 00:44:10.040
So that was interesting statistics, right?

702
00:44:10.040 --> 00:44:12.520
10 to 15% of people hadn't been having sex

703
00:44:12.520 --> 00:44:15.280
with their spouse in the last six months to a year.

704
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:16.960
Cat is like mortified.

705
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:18.280
That's a good mortified face.

706
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:19.880
He's like, what, what?

707
00:44:23.040 --> 00:44:28.040
So, yeah, so there was actually a space there

708
00:44:29.240 --> 00:44:30.840
where it probably went longer than six months

709
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.480
where we would have been one of those statistics

710
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:33.320
at one period there.

711
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:34.600
It was like, oh my gosh.

712
00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:36.640
And I was just going nuts.

713
00:44:36.640 --> 00:44:39.360
But my conclusion was, Alana's the issue,

714
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:43.040
not taking into consideration the bigger picture

715
00:44:43.080 --> 00:44:46.640
of why she didn't feel like sex

716
00:44:46.640 --> 00:44:48.040
and what the context was

717
00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:51.840
and what had created that world of chaos.

718
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:53.720
So, because I wasn't aware

719
00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:55.720
of the seven sacred pathways to intimacy, right?

720
00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:58.440
So I'm just thinking, right, we should be having sex

721
00:44:58.440 --> 00:44:59.560
and you're the problem.

722
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.120
my blindness and my narcissism really was the issue

723
00:45:03.120 --> 00:45:04.880
is I was not taking into consideration.

724
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.600
I was just like tunnel vision on the fact

725
00:45:07.600 --> 00:45:09.640
that when I'm asking for sex, she's saying,

726
00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:11.320
no, that's the problem.

727
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:16.320
But I wasn't, it's like, I wasn't aware of the fact,

728
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:19.200
I wasn't consciously aware of the fact

729
00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:22.280
of the environment that I created in our marriage, right?

730
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:25.560
Where I wasn't consciously taking into consideration

731
00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:28.480
the fact that Alana was totally burnt out.

732
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:29.320
She was spiritually burnt out.

733
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:32.480
And a lot of these years were our little kid years.

734
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:34.640
So she's got little kids, babies,

735
00:45:34.640 --> 00:45:36.680
postnatal depression as well.

736
00:45:36.680 --> 00:45:40.320
We would have totally say she had postnatal depression.

737
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:42.520
Ezra was our first child,

738
00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:45.720
was a really, really difficult baby.

739
00:45:45.720 --> 00:45:48.600
Lots of sleepless nights, lots of just intensive,

740
00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:51.320
like, oh, breastfeeding was terrible.

741
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:54.920
He had an issue and breastfeeding was really hard.

742
00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:56.720
And I wanted to play with Alana's boobies.

743
00:45:56.720 --> 00:45:59.280
And so that was not, you know,

744
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:00.960
like it just creates extra issues.

745
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:02.760
You know, like if your nipples are bleeding there,

746
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:04.320
you know, from breastfeeding,

747
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:07.320
then you're not necessarily being as super sexy

748
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.160
about anyone else playing with your bleeding nipples.

749
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.360
So there's the spiritual side of things,

750
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.600
where Alana's totally spiritually down.

751
00:46:16.600 --> 00:46:21.040
So there was pressure on us in that side of our marriage.

752
00:46:21.040 --> 00:46:22.960
And I wasn't taking that into consideration.

753
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:26.040
I wasn't taking the postnatal depression.

754
00:46:26.040 --> 00:46:27.880
We weren't even consciously, at the time,

755
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:28.880
we were in survival mode.

756
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.280
So we weren't really even analyzing ourselves very well.

757
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.760
We were like, oh, we're gonna get through this.

758
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.480
Like, yeah, like, come on.

759
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:36.960
I think that's a big part of it for me.

760
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.520
The first five years of our marriage,

761
00:46:39.520 --> 00:46:40.920
I was in survival mode.

762
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:44.040
I can't take anyone else into consideration

763
00:46:44.040 --> 00:46:46.960
when I'm trying to get myself through the day.

764
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:50.080
And I don't think either of us really understood that

765
00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:51.080
at the time.

766
00:46:52.120 --> 00:46:53.640
Oh, I didn't, definitely didn't.

767
00:46:53.640 --> 00:46:54.960
And I didn't either.

768
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:56.760
That I was actually just trying to get myself

769
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:59.960
through the day, let alone deal with Benji.

770
00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:01.920
And then when you've got kids on top of that,

771
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:04.800
and you're trying to get them to survive the day as well,

772
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:07.560
there's just so much extra pressure there.

773
00:47:07.560 --> 00:47:10.080
Yeah, so we had pressure on the spiritual side of things.

774
00:47:10.080 --> 00:47:11.600
We had pressure on the emotional side of things,

775
00:47:11.600 --> 00:47:14.320
because I'm creating unsafe atmospheres all the time.

776
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.320
Because I'm like, come on, woman, what's wrong with you?

777
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.560
And then we've got the intellectual side of things, right?

778
00:47:20.560 --> 00:47:24.840
Which is your ability to effectively communicate

779
00:47:25.720 --> 00:47:26.560
and effectively love and express.

780
00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:27.880
This was one area where we-

781
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.840
We had great communication most of the time.

782
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:31.720
Not all the time, I think.

783
00:47:31.720 --> 00:47:33.440
We had good communication,

784
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:38.320
and we had a good level of knowing each other,

785
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.160
even in the midst of our chaos.

786
00:47:41.040 --> 00:47:44.240
But I still wasn't very effective

787
00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:45.960
in actually loving her specifically,

788
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:48.120
because I was so blind to all the other areas.

789
00:47:48.120 --> 00:47:50.240
We had communication going really well,

790
00:47:50.240 --> 00:47:52.480
but because of my blindness to everything else,

791
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:56.160
it's actually really minimized my ability to love her.

792
00:47:56.160 --> 00:47:57.000
So you're like,

793
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.000
if you've got the intellectual side of things

794
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.160
down really well,

795
00:48:00.160 --> 00:48:03.560
then you know exactly what your spouse wants,

796
00:48:03.560 --> 00:48:06.440
when they want it, and how they like it, right?

797
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:07.280
That's when you can tell

798
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:09.640
that you've really mastered the intellectual pathways.

799
00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:13.240
You know what your spouse needs, what they want,

800
00:48:13.240 --> 00:48:15.600
what their dreams are, what their desires are.

801
00:48:15.600 --> 00:48:18.080
That's when you can tell that you really know.

802
00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:19.960
And also, right?

803
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.040
And also that you're meeting those needs.

804
00:48:22.600 --> 00:48:25.280
If you've mastered the intellectual pathway as a couple,

805
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:28.200
then it's not just a theoretical knowledge

806
00:48:28.200 --> 00:48:30.840
of what each other wants, when they want it,

807
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:31.680
how they like it,

808
00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:34.600
but there's this mutual place where you should come together

809
00:48:34.600 --> 00:48:37.080
and each person is getting what they want,

810
00:48:37.080 --> 00:48:39.560
when they want it, and how they like it.

811
00:48:39.560 --> 00:48:41.400
And I think a big part of it for me, too,

812
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.000
is I didn't know what I wanted.

813
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:44.400
I didn't know what I needed.

814
00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:49.560
And in hindsight, I was actually just so burnt out.

815
00:48:49.560 --> 00:48:51.760
I needed time, was a big part of it.

816
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.000
I needed time to just kind of sit and sleep

817
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.120
and just like the real basics.

818
00:48:58.680 --> 00:48:59.520
Yeah.

819
00:48:59.520 --> 00:49:02.920
Yeah, and then the next pathway is the essential pathway.

820
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:07.280
And because we were so versed in the five love languages,

821
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.400
as we kind of missed the boat a little bit

822
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:11.520
on the five love languages,

823
00:49:11.520 --> 00:49:14.360
because one of the five love languages is touch.

824
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.960
And so in my mind, I've used all touch for sex.

825
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:20.920
Like to me, the goal, like if you start touching me,

826
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:23.160
like the goal should be sex, right?

827
00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:25.000
Like that's where you want to get to.

828
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.400
Like all touch should have a happy ending.

829
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:29.880
You know, in my mind, I was like, yeah, hey,

830
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:31.560
but not so for Rolanda.

831
00:49:31.560 --> 00:49:35.200
And because I always thought that all touch should end,

832
00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:36.920
you know, should have a happy ending.

833
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:41.920
She was like, well, no touch is really that safe right now.

834
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:47.360
Like we couldn't sit on the couch and me hold his hand

835
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.680
because he thought that it would be all on

836
00:49:49.680 --> 00:49:52.320
and then we would be back in that conversation.

837
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.760
Or, you know, like he's sitting at the dining table

838
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:56.680
and I put my hand on his shoulder.

839
00:49:56.680 --> 00:49:57.520
You know, like that type of-

840
00:49:57.520 --> 00:49:59.000
Oh, I know what that means.

841
00:49:59.000 --> 00:49:59.840
Exactly.

842
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:09.000
So that meant that I avoided touch at all costs, because for me, any touch, he wanted

843
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:14.000
sexual touch, and so therefore no touch was safe, when I actually just wanted to hold

844
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.000
his hand for that to be it.

845
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:21.000
So she's stoked with sensual touch, she was happy with the sensual side of things, which

846
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:29.000
is massages, to her that was safe touch, the sensual side of things was safe touch, it

847
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:35.000
was nice touch, but because I had no understanding that sensual touch was even a thing, I was

848
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:40.000
just like, oh, she's trying to start something, I don't know where this is going.

849
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.000
So she starts with drawing touch, and then I'm like, you didn't touch me!

850
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:49.000
And it starts sulking, and creating unsafe atmospheres, and so she starts to just touch

851
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.000
me a little bit more, and I was like, yes, she's really into me!

852
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.000
And she was like, that's not what I'm saying!

853
00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.000
So she'd stop touching me again, and we'd just have that cycle going around in the sensual

854
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:05.000
touch, and it wasn't, and we'll talk more about this in the next session of how we started

855
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:11.000
to patch things, start to figure things out, when we started to realise that sensual and

856
00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:17.000
sexual touch were two different pathways, when actually my brain started to realise,

857
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.000
oh, there's another thing going on here with that lady.

858
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:26.000
So that's why we call sensual touch the forgotten pathway.

859
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:32.000
So the first three pathways, spiritual, emotional, intellectual, we call them the foundational

860
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:36.000
pathways, because that's going to set the whole atmosphere, that's going to set the

861
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.000
whole tone, that's going to set everything up in your marriage.

862
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:43.000
And the cool thing about that for people is that a lot of that work can be done before

863
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:47.000
people are married, you can do so much work there before people are married.

864
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:55.000
But then the fourth pathway is the sensual pathway, where it's non-sexual touch.

865
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:58.000
So it's massages, or what, you know.

866
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.000
Holding hands, snuggling on the couch.

867
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.000
Yeah.

868
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:02.000
Hugging.

869
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:05.000
Hugging, kissing, anything that's not sexual.

870
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:10.000
The cool thing about that is we're starting to, not starting to, we're really getting

871
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.000
it.

872
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:16.000
So something hot and saucy, really saucy, that's really awesome for my sex life, is

873
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:18.000
giving Alana a massage.

874
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Her preference, I'm like, babe, what do you want?

875
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:26.000
Because, you know, when we're serving each other in marriage, it's best when both people

876
00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:29.000
get what they want, when they want it, and how they like it.

877
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:32.000
So, you know, give Alana, I'm like, what do you want?

878
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.000
She's like, oh, a full body massage would be great.

879
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:39.000
So get the oils out, she gets a full body massage, and then the real sexy thing is going

880
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.000
straight to sleep after it without initiating anything.

881
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:45.000
For Alana, that's a great night.

882
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:46.000
Like, she just loves that.

883
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Like, that's a great night for her.

884
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
She's like, yes, that's awesome.

885
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.000
And for me, that's great in terms of delayed gratification.

886
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.000
Like, I reap really well from that.

887
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:01.000
It requires a lot of self-discipline, really, sometimes after giving your wife a full body

888
00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:05.000
massage, and then, you know, just calmly going to sleep after that.

889
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:08.000
Requires a good bit of self-discipline.

890
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:13.000
But it's delayed gratification that works really, really well for me later on.

891
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:18.000
Because then she has nights when it's all about me, and she's all about, you know, like,

892
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.000
making sure that I'm getting everything that I want.

893
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000
So that's the essential touch.

894
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.000
That's the forgotten pathway.

895
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:28.000
And then the next three are the make it or break it.

896
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.000
So finances is the first one.

897
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:36.000
So when we first started our marriage, I was working.

898
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.000
Yeah, Alana was working part-time for a bit.

899
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.000
But then we were also involved in ministry, and missions, and running conferences all

900
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:45.000
around the place.

901
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:48.000
So that didn't really work for her to have a job.

902
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.000
Because we were always, like, taking off.

903
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.000
We're running a camp here.

904
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.000
We're running a mission trip here.

905
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.000
We're running an event here.

906
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:56.000
And so she was always trying to have, like, time off.

907
00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:57.000
So I was like, look, this doesn't work.

908
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.000
So we were like, well, we've got to chase the calling.

909
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.000
So we definitely prioritized the calling over finances.

910
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:08.000
So we were kind of in this place where, to me, my mindset was, you know,

911
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.000
like, ministry is a calling, not a career.

912
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:16.000
Like, this is all about radical faith, radical obedience, whatever it takes.

913
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:17.000
God will provide.

914
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:18.000
We'll just say yes.

915
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.000
And I love that attitude.

916
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:25.000
But there's a dynamic of finances where you can live in the provision,

917
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:27.000
the realm of provision or the realm of promise.

918
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.000
In the realm of provision, you'll have just what you need.

919
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.000
But the realm of promise is a place of abundance.

920
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:38.000
But we were years and years and years away from even, like,

921
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:42.000
being able to consistently put food on the table without stress.

922
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.000
So we had next to no income.

923
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.000
We lived really, really tight.

924
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:48.000
But we just didn't have income.

925
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.000
I still don't know how the back slipped.

926
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.000
We had a handful of supporters.

927
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.000
And then we had a credit card to try and bridge the gap,

928
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:58.000
which was every week and no idea of how we're going to pay the credit card.

929
00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.000
And then we'd just have.

930
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.640
up a miracle sooner or later where God would pay off the credit card and we'd start the cycle

931
00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:10.160
all over again. So financially, it was real pressure. And so if your money is a wonderful

932
00:55:10.160 --> 00:55:16.720
servant but a terrible master, and like we said before, there's two ways that money can rule over

933
00:55:16.720 --> 00:55:22.320
you. One is that money has a higher value to you than obedience to God. So in that sense, it didn't.

934
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.520
In terms of money being an idol, money was never an idol. That wasn't an issue that we had to deal

935
00:55:27.520 --> 00:55:31.680
with. We didn't have to worry about that. But then the other area that money rules after you is you

936
00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:37.680
just don't have any. If you don't have money, then money is your master because it dictates

937
00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:43.120
what you can do, what you can't do, where you can go, where you eat, all of those things. Even if

938
00:55:43.120 --> 00:55:48.320
you've got great faith, faith and money are all that wastes attention. I was like, God,

939
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:56.320
I want to start using my faith for bigger things than groceries. So that was another massive area

940
00:55:56.320 --> 00:56:01.440
of pressure for us just being broke. Having said that, we saw crazy amounts of breakthrough. We

941
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.520
still stewarded hundreds of thousands of dollars for the kingdom, like mission projects going over

942
00:56:05.520 --> 00:56:11.440
here, like people getting blessed all over here, but just us having nothing. Our personal finances

943
00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:17.120
and our ministry finances were two very different. We just didn't have, we personally didn't have

944
00:56:17.120 --> 00:56:20.720
money. We weren't taking stuff out. We were stewarding, we were helping other people,

945
00:56:20.720 --> 00:56:26.640
projects also, but we're in this place of like, hell, God, you've got to break through so we can

946
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:34.320
make sure we've got food for our kids or whatever. So then the next one that's financial,

947
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:44.960
the next pathway is, where are we at, babe? Financial, no, no, we haven't, we're doing the,

948
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.040
oh yeah, no, no, it's directional, it's the leadership pathway. So the leadership pathway,

949
00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:53.120
how are you making your decisions? So we were good. We shared that decision-making

950
00:56:53.120 --> 00:56:58.560
role really well. It's just that one of the decisions that we made was about where we lived,

951
00:56:58.560 --> 00:57:03.680
and that was Te Anau. And while Te Anau was a beautiful place, and I felt like I was called

952
00:57:03.680 --> 00:57:07.920
there from the time I was 17, it was everything I wanted to do was just to be there, I wanted to die

953
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:14.720
there, I wanted to leave there. Alana, six months into our marriage was like, I miss my family.

954
00:57:14.720 --> 00:57:21.440
I don't want to be here. I've got nothing here for me. This is your dream. Where do I fit in this?

955
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:27.280
So I was the closest, I didn't cry very often. Alana does all the crying for us, I did the

956
00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:34.640
sulking. Yeah, she does the crying, I do the sulking. But it was pretty much the closest

957
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.520
to like crying I was at, like just kind of a real breaking point early on in our marriage,

958
00:57:39.520 --> 00:57:44.720
because I was like, I'll give up my dream of everything that I've thought about and obsessed

959
00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:52.160
about since I was 17 years old. I'm happy to lay that down so that we can make things

960
00:57:52.160 --> 00:57:56.800
good for you and safe for you. Because I always said to her, you're the priority.

961
00:57:57.680 --> 00:58:02.560
God can get anyone to lead a revival, God can get anyone to lead a church, but only I can be a husband

962
00:58:02.560 --> 00:58:06.720
to my wife, and only I can be a father to my kids. And I actually feel like for us that was,

963
00:58:07.200 --> 00:58:11.520
like looking back, that was quite a pivotal moment for him to say to me,

964
00:58:11.520 --> 00:58:18.400
actually, if you say go, we'll go. And I mean, I said to him, I would never do that, because I

965
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:24.480
believe you're called here and I want God to speak. But him giving me that power was actually

966
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:31.200
quite helpful to me at that time. So Alana waited 10 years for God to speak

967
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:40.080
on leaving there, on leaving Te Anau. And it was hard for her the whole, like every day,

968
00:58:40.080 --> 00:58:46.800
it was hard. And we had babies and she had no family. All of that was really, really difficult.

969
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:52.480
So the sixth pathway is the leadership pathway. So we had good decision-making ones,

970
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:59.200
like leadership pathway, it determines if you have a codependent relationship,

971
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:03.760
if you have a power struggle relationship, or if you have a powerful people relationship. So

972
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:08.960
we made some of our decisions really well together, but then other parts of our place,

973
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:14.800
in terms of like leadership and decision makings, we were power struggle and other parts,

974
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:20.080
we were kind of codependent, you know, in terms of like me being pouty and salty and not being a

975
00:59:20.080 --> 00:59:26.480
powerful person trying to manipulate her into sex with a bad attitude. That's like codependent

976
00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:32.000
behavior. You know, that's where someone's being the victim, playing the victim card. We didn't

977
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:36.400
really power struggle, like we didn't really fight, like in terms of fighting, arguments,

978
00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:41.280
shelter, we've never shouted at each other. That's not really how we roll. We've never,

979
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:48.000
like I only punched her once, but that was in my sleep. And I was dreaming, I was dreaming that I

980
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:54.480
had all these rats in my pocket and then all these rats escaped out of my pocket. And I was trying to

981
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:59.760
catch these rats in my sleep. I was like, Oh my gosh, it's all these rats. And one of them in my

982
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.360
ran over over the top of me to the other side and I tried to grab it and I woke up as I like

983
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:09.040
reached over and grabbed this rat and like what I actually did was just

984
01:00:09.040 --> 01:00:12.640
punched Alana really hard and I was like oh so I just pretended I was asleep

985
01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:22.480
it's the only time you've been revived. It hasn't been a power struggle for us

986
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:27.200
but there was codependency there rather than powerful people. Yeah and while we had these

987
01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:33.120
few areas that were so painful and so challenging the other areas of our life were amazing we had

988
01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:42.160
so much fun and um just like life was great in other areas and but we had skeletons in the closet

989
01:00:42.160 --> 01:00:48.240
right you know they could just go and I feel like this dark cloud would descend on us uh or on me

990
01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:53.200
I feel like a dark cloud would descend on me my whole mind would get swallowed up with chaos

991
01:00:53.200 --> 01:00:58.720
thinking and I'm like whoa and I would have to work insanely hard on the spiritual side to really

992
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:05.520
not be losing control to like you know to maintain stability so that for me was a real strength for

993
01:01:05.520 --> 01:01:08.960
me is the spiritual side of things because I was like sweet well I'm going to have three hours of

994
01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:13.360
the glory today and then I'll be able to sort my mind out but often you know my three hours in the

995
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:18.560
glory is just like sorting myself out um and so that was a big strength to our marriage is that

996
01:01:18.560 --> 01:01:24.960
my coping mechanism wasn't porn we've never had porn in our marriage it wasn't other woman it

997
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:30.240
wasn't um eating although Ilana makes a lot of I had to ask her to stop making muffins

998
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:38.160
because it was you know there's too many side effects and front effects um so to reduce the

999
01:01:38.160 --> 01:01:42.880
muffin quotas for a bit there you know like it wasn't it wasn't drugs alcohol anything like that

1000
01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:49.040
my my coping mechanism has always been prayer so I would go out and if I was you know if I

1001
01:01:49.040 --> 01:01:53.360
needed to do a little bit more soaking it'll be soaked out in prayer usually so we kind of reset

1002
01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:57.760
it and come by the time I've had three hours in the presence I was always going to be in a really

1003
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:02.880
awesome headspace and you're like kind of come back wow let's go again so that side of things

1004
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:08.240
was a real strength for our marriage I think actually me that Benji carried us through because

1005
01:02:08.240 --> 01:02:15.440
if it was um you know two people like me or Benji didn't have a great coping mechanism I actually

1006
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:23.360
think we would have imploded and so for sure like Benji carried us through a lot of those years

1007
01:02:25.120 --> 01:02:30.400
so I thought I was way more awesome than I really was so that's why I thought I was so perfect and

1008
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:35.200
I thought man this chick needs so I was like I'm gonna help her out and pray for her because she's

1009
01:02:35.200 --> 01:02:44.400
a mess I think you just think you've made me so one um and then the last pathway is the sexual

1010
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:50.960
pathway which is where we were having our major meltdowns but I'd jump in bed wait for her to

1011
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:56.400
turn up and I'm like man when she gets there she's going to be so unrecognizable wild um but that

1012
01:02:56.480 --> 01:03:04.640
never happened well maybe maybe you know we had three babies so maybe maybe not but um

1013
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:12.800
that's where all our pressure was coming from was that sexual conversation um but what I wasn't

1014
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:19.760
realizing is that I was you know like our whole marriage was chaos and that's what I was blind to

1015
01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:24.400
I was I only thought we had problems you know in terms of Lana doesn't want to have sex as much as

1016
01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:28.240
I want to have sex I thought that's what our problem was and so I was like that's easy she

1017
01:03:28.240 --> 01:03:32.160
just needs to sort her attitude out and let's just have sex you know we're having our conversation

1018
01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:37.040
was like you know like we could have had sex and you know be sleeping happily right now but

1019
01:03:37.040 --> 01:03:42.320
instead you're crying and I'm sulking and no one got so we've kind of created this marriage where

1020
01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:48.240
no one got what they wanted and no one got what they needed uh love major love deficit in our

1021
01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:53.600
marriage it was obviously like it's kind of funny because Lana's right we had so much love for each

1022
01:03:53.600 --> 01:03:57.760
other and so much fun when I had three hours in the world I would come back on fire and you know

1023
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.680
have a great attitude and then you know sooner or later the skeletons would come out of the closet

1024
01:04:01.680 --> 01:04:05.760
and then we'd pick our pieces up again and go again and it'll be like the process and the

1025
01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:12.400
rigmarole of like the deviant conversations is going over and over again but um made it really

1026
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:17.280
really challenging so it did get to that point eventually when I was just so desperate like

1027
01:04:18.240 --> 01:04:22.880
there's so much pain that he booked me a counsellor for my birthday it was it was

1028
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:28.400
Dave Riddell and he was down for a bible school and he only had a couple of nights when he could

1029
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:33.440
do stuff and he only had one night where he could fit us in and it happened to be Alana's birthday

1030
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:38.160
so we had a two-hour session with Dave Riddell for Alana's birthday and she cried through most of it

1031
01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:43.920
um and his and I was stoked with his advice because he nailed her but he didn't actually

1032
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:49.600
he usually nails everyone but he didn't nail me as a narcissist um but he nailed her and said you

1033
01:04:49.600 --> 01:04:54.800
guys need to just start scheduling sex nights um and sensual nights he nailed that he's like

1034
01:04:54.800 --> 01:04:58.560
you're going to separate sensual and sexual and you need to take care of her needs Benji

1035
01:04:58.560 --> 01:04:59.840
because you just take care of your needs

1036
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.160
and you get over yourselves.

1037
01:05:02.160 --> 01:05:04.960
And I was like, yes, this sounds awesome.

1038
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:06.200
And so we created an agreement,

1039
01:05:06.200 --> 01:05:07.480
like, yeah, we're going to do this.

1040
01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:09.120
But then we just lied to each other

1041
01:05:09.120 --> 01:05:11.560
and broke all of our promises and never actually kept it.

1042
01:05:11.560 --> 01:05:13.280
And it was at the end of that,

1043
01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:14.880
after going through all these promises,

1044
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:16.200
I'm like, yes, it's a sex night.

1045
01:05:16.200 --> 01:05:19.560
And she's like, I'm not coming to bed for ages.

1046
01:05:19.560 --> 01:05:21.360
I was like, ah!

1047
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:25.960
And so, so we created more chaos there.

1048
01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:27.720
And then so I would, you know,

1049
01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:29.720
and then I'd like give her a massage or whatever,

1050
01:05:29.720 --> 01:05:31.280
and then try to initiate sex.

1051
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:33.440
And she'd be like, hey, you're not supposed to do that.

1052
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:34.280
Not sex night.

1053
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:36.040
I'm like, when are you supposed to have sex on a sex night?

1054
01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:37.360
And we're like, eh!

1055
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:40.960
And so it was chaos.

1056
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:42.680
So I think that's kind of probably

1057
01:05:42.680 --> 01:05:45.640
where we're going to leave today, isn't a mess,

1058
01:05:45.640 --> 01:05:48.920
because next week we're going to like start

1059
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:53.400
like unpacking how things started getting like tidied up.

1060
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:55.240
You know, like what actually started to happen

1061
01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:58.280
that we were able to start figuring things out.

1062
01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:03.160
But really what I, what the issue was really

1063
01:06:03.160 --> 01:06:07.800
in our marriage was like the simple fix happened

1064
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:12.800
for our marriage when I got to the point of extreme pain

1065
01:06:14.640 --> 01:06:17.240
and extreme desperation for solutions

1066
01:06:17.240 --> 01:06:22.240
that I managed to open up my eyes to the possibility

1067
01:06:22.560 --> 01:06:25.240
that I might be contributing something

1068
01:06:25.240 --> 01:06:27.000
towards the issues in our marriage.

1069
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:32.440
And that little kind of crack in the blindness

1070
01:06:34.040 --> 01:06:36.120
started to open up to a space where I was able

1071
01:06:36.120 --> 01:06:39.560
to start taking extreme ownership for my mess

1072
01:06:39.560 --> 01:06:42.000
and where I was sulking.

1073
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.880
And we'll close with this, but once we started,

1074
01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:48.400
I started taking extreme ownership from my mess

1075
01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:50.880
and stopped blaming Alana, what we found is

1076
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:53.040
that our marriage completely transformed

1077
01:06:53.040 --> 01:06:56.400
and she didn't have to do much and I had to do all the work.

1078
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:58.080
Right, she didn't really have to change anything

1079
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:00.880
that she was doing very much.

1080
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:03.440
As soon as I started taking ownership of myself

1081
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.840
and my issues and my sulking and my bad atmosphere,

1082
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:09.600
as soon as I started taking extreme ownership for that,

1083
01:07:10.680 --> 01:07:12.240
all the pressure started coming off all around

1084
01:07:12.240 --> 01:07:13.640
our life everywhere else.

1085
01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:16.840
And it started to give me the space

1086
01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:19.160
to move out of survival mode.

1087
01:07:19.160 --> 01:07:21.440
Yeah, and then what do you know,

1088
01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:22.760
little by little, everything changed.

1089
01:07:22.760 --> 01:07:24.120
And we'll talk more about that next week,

1090
01:07:24.120 --> 01:07:26.680
like how things changed.

1091
01:07:26.720 --> 01:07:29.120
But that's it for now.

1092
01:07:29.120 --> 01:07:30.920
We might even start off with a Q&A.

1093
01:07:32.720 --> 01:07:35.000
We'll, yeah, hopefully next week we'll do a Q&A.

1094
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:40.000
If not, the week after, we'll just dictate it to,

1095
01:07:40.520 --> 01:07:44.200
I will dedicate it to Q&A the next session otherwise.

1096
01:07:44.200 --> 01:07:46.320
So I hope that's been fun for you guys.

1097
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:47.280
If you do have any questions,

1098
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:48.920
feel free to drop them in the comments,

1099
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:50.720
put them on Facebook so we can kind of like

1100
01:07:50.720 --> 01:07:53.320
start creating a database of questions.

1101
01:07:54.080 --> 01:07:57.640
But that's it for now.

1102
01:07:57.640 --> 01:08:01.680
And Niamh, did I say it right?

1103
01:08:01.680 --> 01:08:02.520
Niamh?

1104
01:08:05.240 --> 01:08:07.200
Niamh, Niamh.

1105
01:08:07.200 --> 01:08:09.280
How about you pray to wrap it up for us again,

1106
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:12.000
because we love your prayers.

1107
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.320
You just like that Irish accent, don't you?

1108
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:16.880
So much, so much.

1109
01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:20.399
Father God, we thank you for this couple,

1110
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:22.520
for what you've brought them through.

1111
01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:24.560
We thank you for the little nuggets

1112
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:29.160
that they are going to be revealing in the next few weeks.

1113
01:08:29.160 --> 01:08:32.840
I bless you, Lord, for the honesty,

1114
01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:36.120
because in that space of truth and vulnerability,

1115
01:08:36.120 --> 01:08:38.920
the miracles can begin to happen.

1116
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:41.479
And I thank you that in their being honest,

1117
01:08:41.479 --> 01:08:44.600
they opened the door for others to be honest

1118
01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:47.040
with themselves and with each other

1119
01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:48.760
and above all with you, Lord.

1120
01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:50.439
And so I thank you for that time.

1121
01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:52.399
I thank you for their testimony,

1122
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:54.479
for the journey they've been on.

1123
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:59.479
And I just pray that you take the obvious and multiply it,

1124
01:09:00.040 --> 01:09:02.359
just as you multiplied the loaves and fishes,

1125
01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:07.359
that you multiply it to become a door opener for others.

1126
01:09:08.240 --> 01:09:11.640
And I pray that in Jesus' name, amen.

1127
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:12.479
Amen.

1128
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:13.319
Thanks, guys.

1129
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:15.240
Love you all heaps, bless you.

1130
01:09:15.240 --> 01:09:18.560
And same time next week, Friday, 10 a.m. New Zealand time,

1131
01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:19.399
we'll be here.

1132
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:21.080
So see you later, bye-bye.