Hi.
Hey, Wendy.
How are you?
I'm good.
There you are.
Yes.
How have you been?
I've been pretty good.
How about you?
Been good.
I've been working on a lot of things and I've been working on a lot of things.
I've been working on a lot of things.
How about you?
I'm good.
How about you?
Been good.
I do not remember the last time that we connected.
Do you?
No.
It's been a while.
Probably been longer than a year.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
Yeah.
Oh.
Well, it's good to connect again.
Good to see you.
Thank you.
You too.
We're wearing the same color.
That's right.
We are.
It's a pretty color.
It's cheerful in the wintertime.
Yes.
I just got back from some exercising and so I am still in short sleeves even though it's
that, well, it's a warmer day today, but here in Texas, it's still not as warm as Hawaii.
Are y'all temperate year round or do y'all ever have to wear jackets during a certain
season?
It's pretty warm all year round.
I would say like a pleasant California springtime all year round.
Okay.
Oh, how nice.
Wow.
Where it will fluctuate.
It typically between 70 degrees and mid 80s, but sometimes it will drop down into the 60s
and sometimes it will be like in the high 80s or 90s, but typically all year it's pretty
comfortable.
That's wild.
I haven't been to Hawaii yet, but my best friend and her husband are actually in Hawaii
right now.
I don't remember, I think, I don't remember what island that they're on, but yeah.
So, and I told her, I said, when I talked to her earlier this week, I said, well, I
have a call with Hawaii later on.
You're here vicariously.
That's right.
Exactly.
By two different people.
So what's going on?
How are you?
Well, I felt that I would really benefit from the most recent class that you did.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I just really appreciate what you offer.
It really supports me and strengthens me.
I'm trying to like put my history in a nutshell, but I didn't grow up Christian, but my cousins
did.
And I always wanted to learn more.
I've always felt a really strong, just personal connection to Jesus, or I felt his presence
and his teachings.
Like he's trying to speak to me directly, but I, and then it's been so beneficial to
kind of have your coaching because then I go to the Bible and like, oh, that he's teaching
me saying that's in the Bible.
So that's very comforting.
Let's see.
Oh, and I found a really good minister here.
So I'm starting to go to church a little bit here where he teaches about your identity
in Christ.
And my cousins grew up Christian, but it, unfortunately, my aunt was just really hard
on them in that way.
Like always kind of nitpicking them.
They never believed enough for her.
It's almost like they never followed her way of Christianity enough for her.
And it had a pretty serious detrimental effect on some of the boys, but the girls just have
kind of risen above it and found their own connection.
But it's just on my mom's side, my family, I love my family on my mom's side, just very
beautiful.
But anyway, I mean, it's a continuous process for me.
Yeah.
I'm closer in my heart to who I am in relationship, like who I truly am.
But I realized today one of, like I've been praying, like, what is my hangups?
What are, like, it's, you know, and they come to me.
But today I was really, and I've already known this, but it's a deeper level of understanding
that I was taught very strictly to follow my dad's authority.
And my dad was not in alignment with a higher power.
You know, he was very much on this earth, disconnected from God.
And he was also very harsh with me.
And so because I got that from a really early age, there was a part of me that constricted
myself.
And I feel it like in...
feel it in my body where I constrict my light. So that I'm
under, like a, an imbalanced power and imbalanced rule rather
than the pure love of our Father. So, I mean, I'm, I'm
getting awarenesses every day, but I really I know this is
however long this session is, and you did a month long or more
training. But whatever you feel you could pull from that, that
would help strengthen me would be wonderful.
Okay, well, what, what are some of the things that have been
coming up? Like, particularly the past few months, that caused
you to reach out? You'll remember when I when I said, Oh,
I have this breakthrough program, you know, and you're
really what made you think, well, I'm interested in that,
you know, I want that. And as opposed to at other times where
it wasn't the right time, like, was there anything in particular
or if you've been like really struggling with any particular
events that have come up or a lot of stress and anxiety, we're
talking about like stuff that has affected you like, well, I
mean, just period, but I meant like affected you like
spiritually, but and then I don't remember this situation
with your husband, I remember it being stressful. I just don't
remember why. What does your husband is your husband not a
believer? Or does he just not believe in the same way that
you do? Or was there something about that?
Yeah, you're so you're right on with that. My primary challenge
right now is actually overcome the pretty severe trauma that
he's inflected upon myself and my daughter. He ended up filing
for divorce about a year and a half ago. But three years prior,
he would say he wants it to work out. But behind my back, he was
organizing everything to his benefit. And then he and so I
got hit pretty hard with pretty severe manipulation, deception.
And when I found out what he had done, I mean, I would I would
feel it. And so of course, I would feel it like any woman
would feel that regardless of how intuitive you are, but I'm
actually really sensitive. And I would tell him and he would have
an extremely quick lie. And, and there was times when I would
talk to him, and it would be him, you know, just like his
innocence, and then I would see a shadow pass over him. So I was
dealing with some pretty harsh things. And I think that's why,
like, it came to my mind, like, why did I slip into that? It's
like, well, I so basically, to overcome a pretty abusive hub
has been the last three years of our marriage, and then a divorce
that was very heartbreaking for me, because I did. And this is
really in alignment with with what you taught, like what we
tried to do, like, you try to be good enough for the person
that's hurting. Like, I was trying to be good enough for the
person that was actually really harming me, and really would
made a choice to be hurtful. You know, like, there's nothing I
could do to make him be a good husband and a good father. But I
tried, because it was my belief system to make it work. And then
I had hope that he would come back to his more kinder self for
our daughter. And so I became very exhausted and very weakened
by this. And and then also, you know, to be fully like authentic
pain causes anger. And so then you're stuck in this like, angry
at the person that hurt you when I need to fully release it and
overcome it, and not even be triggered by it, not even be
like, this was his choice, but it doesn't. That's not who I am.
Like, I'm not. I'm not the pain that he inflicted. And I'm not
like what he did. I'm, I have had many moments of feeling the
freedom of who I am, in union, rather than being suppressed
under somebody who is very deceptive towards me.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Is the divorce finalized?
It has been finalized. For over a year. It went very quickly.
Yeah. So he filed. And I just, I, what I was what was the most
important to me was that I have my daughter most of the time
because of his imbalances. Yeah, I didn't want her on like in his
energy field. So I got things moving very quickly. And I think
it was in four months where things like this can go on for
years. Yeah, I was just like, we Yeah, so after four months after
he filed, I was like, Okay, I, I like literally worked my ass off
for years for this person to try to make things
work. And, and then I saw everything where he where I just
mistrusted myself for years, like he was not planning on
having a workout. You know, I see. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm sorry,
go ahead.
No, I mean, definitely the experience of exhaustion. That's
why like, rush, like over breakthrough or overthrow,
even out of this energetically, where I still have to communicate
with him for scheduling with my daughter. And every time I do,
I'm just like, correct. I feel like, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for catching me up on all that. I
couldn't remember exactly what the situation was. I just
remember that there was that was a factor. And, and that was
before he had filed for divorce, because back then you weren't
talking about it. You weren't talking about like, the
possibility of divorce, like when you and I first talked
about first connected, you know, the last time that I remember
you and I talking. And so anyway, so that's new news to
me. And I'm sorry for what it is you've been through. But I am
glad that that this is the path that that had to be taken that
it's finalized. Because then it gives you an opportunity to have
some, some disconnect, you know, from it, you know, spiritually,
you know, etc. I mean, you can always you can always the Lord
always protects. And so you can always disconnect in those ways,
even if you are physically married, that it's always, it's
always just more empowering and, and, and health, health and
healing promoting for everything to be final. So that's what I
was just why I was asking. And so some of the things that we
talked about in, in the breakthrough program was, so
what it was really about is when I had done the rest intensive,
like the really you done a mini one, right? You don't one that
was like just a month, or something like that. I've done a
number of, of many classes with you. Yeah, you have. Okay. Okay.
I'm sorry. I can't remember everybody and how many they did.
So okay, all right. But you, I have one that's, that's longer
and more intensive, not like the main one. But I have only done
that ever, every so often, I think I've only done a total of
four of those, maybe. And anyway, so my point is that in
there, I noticed that there, the majority of people would majorly
shift. But there were every now and then some people that were
really struggling. So you'd have some people whose lives
completely turned around, then you have the majority of people
which were in the middle. And then they, they, they had, they
had major breakthroughs, I mean, enough where they were just in
I'm talking about the rest intensive program, you know, my
original program, they would have major breakthroughs, and
they would end in various areas of their lives. But then you had
some other people who had some breakthrough enough where they
could like, see, okay, I think this is legitimate, you know, I'm
believing in this, you know, I think that this is the Lord and
whatever. And, and they, and it, at the very least, it increased
their hope. And the fact that he was kind, and the fact that God
was love, and it began to relieve a lot of pressure. And
they were able to help. They were able to get, like I said,
just some relief. But there were things that those people that
I'm talking about, like, these people here, they were really
struggling to get. Even when they would take multiple rest
intensives with me, they were struggling to ever get past that
initial point of, oh, I this is this is brings a lot of hope.
And this is nice. And that God apparently is nicer to me. And
so it makes me that I thought and so it makes me feel better.
But they were struggling to actually shift into rest to the
point where it was like making these major life changes, that
they were watching all of their, their classmates, you know,
experience. And, and I thought, okay, so what's the difference
here? You know, what's going on in these different with these
different people groups? And why can some people what is the
hindrance that these some of these people are experiencing
that the majority of the people aren't? And I and even the
majority of the people that are in the middle, why what is
hindering them from experiencing the greater fullness? And
because I wanted to be able to help people remove those
hindrances. And one of the things that I realized is,
there's some very foundational things that we have to change
about
our belief about the Lord and our approach to him that some people, these people over here,
were working in their life with the Lord to make these hard, major shifts in how they approach the
Lord. And so they were getting these major transformations. These people, the vast majority
of them in the middle, they were making some of them to a particular degree, and they were reaping
the benefits of the amount that they were able to believe to that particular degree. But these people
just had so much, and it's a weird word to use, but if you remember me saying that, and
if we're not in rest, we're in an active state of resistance. These people just, it was like they
were in a chronic state of resistance. They didn't know how to live life without fight,
without battle, without pushing, without, and it's how they had survived this far.
It's how they kept the faith, despite all of the bad things that had happened to them, was to
actually not be open and receptive to the Lord, but to be in constant resistance, which is what
it, which is what you're experiencing when you say that you just feel, you know, that you're,
that you shut down. There was a phrase that you used, though, when you're talking about your dad,
and you said there, what did you say that you feel in your body? Like that there's actually,
I actually feel like muscularly that I constrict, like I constrict who I am. So
with the belief, if I do that, I won't be hurt by my dad or my mom enforcing my dad's abuse. So yeah.
Yes, exactly. So that, that's it. The way that I refer to it is people are living in a straight
jacket, in a self-inflicted straight jacket. And I noticed that that was the common denominator
in all of these people. And it, and the way that I could recognize it is that is how I had lived.
And, and, and it wasn't until I began to discover the freedom that the Lord offers and chose by
faith to believe that it was true and that he was offering it and then step into it.
And then finally, I lived life so different. It wasn't until then that I could recognize how this
felt. This felt like I was always keeping myself small. And then whenever there was a potential
threat, I would try to make myself smaller internally, not externally, everything in me
just like gets tighter. And it's a form of self-restraint is what you're doing. Yeah. And
here's the major, here's the really bad problem with that. For one thing, it's rooted in the
belief that we're bad, that we're the problem. Yeah. That we're bad, that we're wrong. We're
the problem. I always, I believed growing up that I was evil and not because I did all these bad
things, but I thought that was the conclusion I came to because I thought, and I trust me, I was
a very, I was a perfectionist. I was this like perfect little obedient church going little girl.
I mean, to the extreme. I was very obedient to my parents. So like I didn't, they didn't take
me to church, but what they taught me like, how can I be perfect enough for them so I'm not hurt
and I'm loved? Yes. And, and then this morning when I was waking up, I thought it is okay for
me to identify with me as being good because a part of me fragmented and was like, I had to
put on that identity of I am bad because that's what they were doing to me. You know, they were
like, you did this, so you're bad. And when I was doing the best I could. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And anyway, they, you know, we, we put this label on ourselves, like I'm bad, I'm evil,
I'm whatever. And we self-identify and the, and the reason it's so detrimental to us again,
for a variety of reasons. One thing is God says that that is not true, but the other about us,
but also God gives us the power to identify things. He gives us including ourselves. Now,
here's the way that it works. God is the one who creates everything. So, so it's not an initiation
that mankind makes of like, aren't we all powerful, we get to identify things. It's not that. It's
always step two. God always
does step one. So here's how we can see it in the Bible is when God created the world
and created all the animals but he told Adam to name them. So there was a and then he told Adam
to have dominion over creation. We identify creation. We're the ones who after God creates
something whether it be creation, it be the physical laws, it could be laws of finance,
laws of business, anything that's under the umbrella of God created including yourself
which is you know your soul and your body because spirit came from God but our soul and our body
those are aspects of us that didn't exist before creation and then when creation came along well
then our soul and our body is our the aspect of ourselves that is created but our spirit
came out of the Lord and in a manner of speaking could say it's not created meaning like it's not
part of like this earth created you know anyway point is because it's an aspect of creation
it's also an aspect that you've been given dominion over to identify when you and the
reason I keep using the word identify I just now realized that I'm not explaining that you're
naming it when you name something you're giving it meaning and you're giving it and you're basically
declaring a like the characteristics that that thing is now supposed to carry out
characteristics you're basically giving an instruction you're telling it who it is and how
it's supposed to act out and so big and anyway so that's what our role is here on earth is we're
supposed to have dominion now again we're not creating all of these things we're always step
two God is always step one God creates all of these things and he says I want you to identify
these things I want you to tell it who I've made it to be again we're step two not step one so even
though we're declaring it we're declaring God's words after him we actually because creation was
put below us and it's looking to mankind for instruction and for what it's supposed to believe
about God etc we're the middle man between God and creation so God always does everything first
God's the one who basically makes something what it is but now he gives us the authority to pass
that declaration and that identity of that thing onto it by repeating God by in other words by
repeating what God said by repeating what God made it to be and by saying it and speaking it
so that that thing who's now look who looks to man in a manner of speaking creation looks to man
not God to know what it's supposed to do now yes God's sovereign over everything and yes God tells
creation what to do and yes creation listens to him but what I'm I'm just trying to explain this
in simplistic terms of we have a particular dominion a particular power and authority
and creation as we mature a sense of God as God teaches us how to be more like him then he gives
us more power more authority for creation to listen to us when and do what we tell it to do
and and you know be what we tell it to be and what God holds us responsible for
is to only tell creation what God has declared over it that it is so again we're always step two
but my point is that step two is vital it's important it's not like oh well since God
already said that I don't need to know God's like I want you're my son I want you to come
into agreement with me about it and when you do that's when things happen sure can I get around
you if I need to and do it without you Adam you know or humanity yes I can but we're I built you
for a relationship and I'm now teaching you how to do what I do and I'm teaching you basically how
to be a gatekeeper for creation so you have the authority to choose what gets let into and to
allow to speak to creation and what isn't so that's what I'm saying so the point is when we
self-identify with these things that well I'm evil I'm bad and we try to constrict ourselves
it's like Adam naming the animals you are very powerfully injecting negativity into yourself
because you are saying you're telling yourself that you're something you're believing that you
were something and your body and your soul are listening and then they start falling
following that instruction.
So that's how we get things like sicknesses,
you know, et cetera.
People that are very stressed,
chronically stressed, chronically anxious,
have, think very badly about themselves,
think that they're very small people.
In other words, that they don't have any significance.
They tend to have horrible, horrible health.
I was gonna say journeys,
but they tend to have horrible health.
And there are certain types of illnesses
that even non-believing doctors,
so in other words, non-Christian doctors,
secular doctors have identified patterns
of certain types of illnesses typically are created
in people that struggle in these particular ways,
or have had these particular traumas in their lives
or whatever, so they know that those things are connected.
So anyway, it's the body carrying out certain instructions.
So I know that that was a lot to give you,
but the reason I wanted to go into all that detail
is to give you not just some information
that just like, oh, that's interesting,
no, but to show you where it's biblically based
and why changing what we believe about ourselves
and tell ourselves is so important.
We won't change, like we literally are,
we won't change, our lives won't change,
our bodies and our souls won't change
until we come in and start telling it something different.
Not in a hopeful way of, oh, I really hope this is true.
No, we have to choose to believe
that we are who God says that we are.
And then we give that to our soul and our body.
We're like, no, no, no, soul and body, this is who we are.
And I can tell you that because God said it
and I've chosen that that's reality
and therefore this is now who you are,
so now start carrying this out, start living like this.
You're now identifying, you're now agreeing with God
and identifying yourself now to be who God says that you are.
You're now naming yourself who God says that you are
and then you will start living out that new name.
So what you're talking about,
that self-restraint and whatever, it's self-inflicting
and all you have to do is now start doing the opposite.
I say all because it's a very simple thing
but it doesn't mean that it's easy.
It's not complicated, it's very simple.
We've been telling it one thing,
we need to now actually be choosing and believing in faith
that it's something different
and the results are life-changingly powerful.
We're actually living out whatever it is that we told her,
whatever, however it is that we've identified ourselves as.
So if we want something to be different,
we need to identify ourselves as the different thing.
In other words, what God says that we are.
Anyway, so before I go on, is all of that making sense?
Yes, yes, every word was reaching me
and I, yeah, very appreciated.
I, yeah, no, this is perfect.
And anywhere in scripture that supports that
would be amazing and I, yeah, I'm just grateful.
I'm grateful, it makes a lot of sense
because it explains something in a different way
at a much deeper level
that I maybe understood at the surface.
Okay, okay, well, good.
And actually, before I go on, let me grab something
because I think there might be some scripture verses
in there, just a second.
Okay.
Okay, so also, go ahead.
Is this recorded?
Yeah.
Yeah, you'll get a recording of it, yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Yeah, I do this so that people can,
because otherwise it's a lot of information
and people are like, I can't remember it all.
Okay, I'm trying to see if there's anything else
before I wanna get to this one verse that I found.
So again, names are very important to the Lord
and he changes people's name.
He's changed people's names in the Bible
as they needed to be identified differently.
Like you think of Abram and Sarah,
I was changed to Abraham and Sarah
at the time of God's covenant with them.
When God made a covenant with them,
well, then he's like, I'm gonna change your names.
That's a serious deal, my goodness.
I think with the-
Two of them were in their nineties,
or at least Abraham was.
I think that Sarah was maybe in her eighties or something.
But anyway, I mean, they were very old
and then God changes, you know, their names.
It's very significant,
especially because back then,
names were always important,
but back then they didn't have last names.
Remember they were always,
so Abraham, son of so-and-so, son of so-and-so,
and then that's how they identified themselves.
So it was their only name, and it's very important.
And because God knew that, you know,
it carried in a name as someone's identity.
So he says, your identity has changed
now that you've got a covenant with me.
And so I'm gonna change your name
to reflect your new identity.
He did the same thing with Jacob.
When Jacob wrestled with the Lord
and, you know, wrestled with an angel,
and then it says in Genesis 32, 28,
then the man, meaning the angel man,
said, your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,
because you have struggled with God
and with humans and have overcome.
So Israel, the name Israel means he who struggles with God.
So what God was doing there is he's like,
okay, this was a major threshold
and a milestone in your relationship with me, Jacob.
The major milestone, because you have wrestled with me
and you've overcome.
And your, and not only our relationship,
but also your generations after you,
there will be my firstborn son.
And I could call that anything I want to.
And I'm gonna call that he who struggles with God.
And that's one of the things in the breakthrough,
in the breakthrough program that I talked about,
it's the very first session,
about the importance of the struggling journey
with the Lord and why it's not bad.
It means that God's answering your prayers.
But anyway, so that's a longer conversation
that we might be able to get into,
but I start out the program with this verse
to emphasize the fact that God considers names
to be very important because every time it's spoken,
it's declaring that thing about the person.
And like, say for instance, if somebody's name was Joy,
because that's easy for us in English
because we use that word in the English language,
but we don't use the word Ashley in the English language,
you know, for anything other than a name,
but we use the word Joy.
And in other cultures,
like the culture that I grew up in overseas in Turkey,
their names are all actually words in their language.
And they, so my point is,
they pick a word in their language that means something,
that they like the meaning of that
and that person's name.
But in English, it's harder for us
because we only, a lot of us don't even know
what our names mean, right?
So we all have to like look it up in a book, right?
But back in Hebrew, they all knew what their names mean
because of how the letters work together and all of that.
But point is, your name is always carrying meaning.
And every time that you say that, say that name,
you are declaring that thing about over the person.
And over and over and over.
So for thousands of years,
every time their enemy said their name,
every time they said their name,
every time somebody reads the name Israel in scripture,
every time they talk about it,
every time it's on the news,
people are putting out the phrase,
he who struggles with God,
he who struggles with God.
And so the more that you put it out there,
remember what we just talked about,
the more instruction it's giving to creation,
the more information and truth
that it's speaking to creation
and then creation's therefore gonna respond to it.
So the thing is that,
that's another example,
because you were asking examples in scripture
of what it is that I'm talking about.
Names are very, very important.
And in other words, declare it because of their meaning.
So you are declaring a meaning of everything
over and over and over again.
And then it will begin to,
and basically you're giving it instruction.
How do I explain that?
You are reaffirming that as an actual truth.
You're declaring that as a truth over the thing.
Like if you call a child Joy,
and that's the child's name,
every time that child's name is spoken,
Joy is being spoken over that person to be joyful.
It's calling them basically to be joyful.
It's declaring something about them
and inviting them to step into the meaning of that name.
So anyway, the same thing with Jacob there,
where God was changing his name.
And just so that I don't leave this as like a question mark,
the reason that this name was so important
is that the struggle with God is a very intimate
and very human.
special place. It's not a bad place. So if you're struggling, for instance, you know,
the Lord, if you're like, Oh, you know what? I really like to be closer to him.
Haven't heard him in a while. Everything feels dry and dead or desert like, and I need breakthrough
or whatever. But again, the name of the breakthrough program, it's usually, it was attracting people who
feel stuck. At some point, all of these people who were going through the program and they couldn't
get past a certain point, they feel stuck and they just feel not just left behind. They feel
abandoned by the Lord or worse. Sometimes they feel martyred by God. They feel like they were
brought into the desert to die. It's like, Lord, why would you do this horrible, awful, hurtful
thing to me? When I've asked you for something good, you told me that if I asked you for bread,
you wouldn't give me a stone. Why did you send me into the desert to die? This is what, you know,
I said, I wanted to get closer to you. Why do I feel further from you? Anyway,
that the struggle, the struggle is the desert place. The struggle, our struggle with God is
the wilderness. And God has shown us over and over throughout scripture that the desert and
the wilderness is the place where we meet God. So if we're wanting to meet God, God will bring
us into the desert. He'll bring us into a place of struggle because he said that my intimate place,
that's where his mountain is. And when he could name his child, you know, his first born,
his favorite Israel, anything he said, me, he, who struggles with God. And here's why it's,
it's an intimate place is because you're facing him and you're wrestling it out. When I was,
I was really mad at God. Oh, when was this? I didn't know. It was probably about 15 years ago.
I was really, really, really mad at God. And he told me, and I didn't know I was to the point
where I finally was so mad at God that I was allowing myself to be mad. And I recognized it.
So I went to the Lord and I, and, um, well, I say I went to the Lord. It was like, I could sense that
he was just standing right there and it was just so mad. And how could he have hurt me like this?
How could he have brought me to this point? I don't know what to do. I don't know what to believe
anymore. And he, and he, and he spoke not audibly, but you know, I knew what he was saying.
And he said, Ashley, he said, you can, you can be mad at me. He said, that's okay. I understand.
You're just, you're, you're going through time. You're mad at me there. You've got questions.
You've got, um, uh, you've got animosity towards me. You don't understand. You want it reconciled.
You can't figure it out. He's like, I get that. He said, I'm fine with that.
Here's what I'm asking you to not do. He said, whatever you do, he said, don't turn your back
on me. When you're mad. He said, when you struggle, he said, I want you to struggle with me
and struggling with God does not mean struggling against him in resistance as if he's the enemy
and it's on in this opposition, but rather it's struggling with him as in you're in this
wrestling match with him. You're both active, equal participants in what you're trying to resolve.
And what that means is you're fighting for the relationship. You're fighting together
for the relationship. That's what that means. That's what the wrestling, that's what the
struggling, it's not, and you're bound and determined to do it together as opposed to
turning your back on the one that you're struggling with and abandoning them and trying to think,
and trying to think that somewhere out here, you're going to find a resolution to this struggle.
You're not. So the way that you save relationship is you wrestle the, the, the problem
out with the person, you know, including the Lord and you navigate it together and whatever.
That's why the struggle is intimate. You are right there with him. And the two of you are
wrestling the thing out together. Kind of think of it similar to the idea of a husband and wife,
how they're always told that you're supposed to, um, that you're not supposed to consider each
other, the enemy. You're supposed to consider this problem that, that, that what y'all are
struggling with is a problem outside of you, that the two of you need to team up together
and decide how you're going to handle this. And it could be that they have a certain character
issue and, or they're handling things in a specific way in the home and you're handling,
and when you think that things should be handled differently in the home or whatever,
instead of thinking this person's the problem and how they're doing it, or, and they're thinking
this person's the problem and this, and they're, and we just need to fix one or the other person.
They say that you're supposed to think of it as a problem outside of the you,
and that the two of you are trying to wrestle.
with and figure out together.
And it's that same thing with that same idea with the Lord is we're not
supposed to treat each other, you know, him as like the enemy, but it's like,
no, God, I'm going to grab you.
And I'm not going to let you go until we figure this thing out.
But you insist on wrestling it with him.
And he's like, Hey, I'm right there with you and we'll do it together.
And even though you're mad at him, even though you're like, God, this is a
part of your character, I do not understand.
So what you're wrestling with is, is always some aspect of your relationship.
Some aspect of how something that happened doesn't seem to reconcile
with who you thought God was and what you thought he would do, you know,
whatever that you choose him over the problem that you need him, that the two
of you are going to wrestle through the problem.
The, the reason that the struggle is so, is so important and vital and special
is because what it means is you're choosing him over the problem.
Now, sure.
What are you doing with him?
You are wrestling out the problem, but by not turning on him and abandon
and abandoning him and whatever, you're actually choosing him over the problem.
And the two of you together are going to figure it out as opposed to rejecting
him in favor of figuring out the problem.
So anyway, that's a lot of information, but that was what he was declaring over
Jacob, and that was my introduction to that through the break to the breakthrough
program was, Hey, what everybody is in right now, this struggle, this, this
wilderness experience in this desert, where we feel abandoned by God, we feel
stuck like, God, I have begged to get out of this for a very long time.
Why have I not done it?
You know, why hasn't it happened?
Why haven't you saved me?
Why haven't helped me figure this out?
You know, why haven't you met me?
Why aren't you talking to me?
Why don't you, and everybody feels stuck for different reasons and whatever.
So I'm just like mentioning lots of them or this thing of like what you're
talking about, or you've lived in self-restraint so long, how do you break
out, how do you break out from, because this is, this is, this leads to nothing
but dryness and literally nothing, but death that is literally leading to death.
So how do you actually get out of that?
And, and you're, and you know, you're just asking the Lord about it.
Well, um, this, this place is a very intimate and special place to the Lord
because he's like, this is the closest that you get to me.
This is where I offer you myself is in these places, because I want
to show you that you don't.
That's why the desert always feels like there's, there's nothing there
because God's like, you're so reliant on all of these other things
of the world to make you feel better.
That when you feel all this dryness, because all he allows all of these
things to be pulled out of your life.
He means for you to then build, be fulfilled by him alone,
because there's nothing else.
So it's not that, Hey, I want you to now do without all of these, these
things, um, and I just want you to choose me instead, God's just, God's like,
no, I want you to, yeah, I want you to choose me, but you need to understand
that you're, I will fill you and provide for the needs that you were
choosing to be filled elsewhere.
You'll so in other words, with all these things taken away, God's not
trying to kill us and deny us of being a fulfilling our needs.
He's like, yeah, I want to teach you how to get them somewhere else.
It'll be much more fulfilling and whatever.
So it feels hard because that transition of how do I stop relying
on this and start relying on him?
How do I get it from him?
I've never even seen him.
You know, how do I actually do that?
Where do I go to get that?
How do I, you know, I've asked the Lord and that still hasn't
worked, it still hasn't come.
So what am I missing?
What am I supposed to do?
And we feel very lost and whatever we can get very frustrated.
But my, the point is God says that he'll provide it.
So we have to choose that it's true and just continue to seek him of like how,
how to do it, but my whole point is to just, to, is to help us treasure the
struggle instead of villainize it.
And the more that you treasure the time of the struggle, I don't
mean that the pain that comes up.
I just mean treasure this time and know that it means you're highly favored
of the Lord will allow this time will allow you to more smoothly go through.
Uh, this time and therefore the pain can sometimes not be as bad.
And also you'll move through it faster because what we're really talking
about is stopping the resistance is don't resist the wilderness.
Don't resist the season.
Don't resist the struggle.
Just allow it to just be, and you'll.
go through it faster. And then if you treasure what God that this is a gift
from God and you receive it from God, it's like, Oh God, wow, this is so sweet
that you love me like this. So in other words, Lord, you're giving me love. It
doesn't mean you love what's happening and how and all of the circumstances. I
don't mean you have to do that. It means you're choosing to look past the
circumstances and give it a different meaning than choosing that this that
these things that are that happen in this struggle are and are like bad or
evil and it mean God hate me. It means God hates me. Looking past all that and
realizing no because I'm here, that means that God is loving me. Not that God is
doing bad things to you. No, no, no. But that God is loving me and he's gonna
help me through all of these bad experiences that I'm that I have right
now. All of these struggle, all this pain and whatever. But the fact that I'm here
means that God is answering my prayer so that they'll go away. Because remember,
whenever we're going through struggle and all of the pain comes up and we're
facing all of this stuff, you have to feel it and experience it in order for
it to go away. I know we hate that. We absolutely hate it. But it's the way that it
goes. And so what happens is, you know, we're used to it. Let me put it like this. Like you
have an emotion that comes up. Like say for instance, anger. And you think, oh I'm
not supposed to be angry. So we think that, so we try to cut it off and think
good thoughts about the person and try to like change things or whatever. And I
don't know, maybe or or stop thinking that way and then try to overcome it by
doing something really nice for the person. But if we're not actually
dealing with the anger, all we're doing is we're stifling it. Because we don't
feel it anymore. We think, oh see, I overcame. I'm a good Christian. I made the
good choice. No, we didn't. We stifled it. So not only is it still there, but it's
now festering. And it's now creating poison in our soul and our body that
eventually over time will manifest itself in something horrible. Right? And
it's some kind of thing that is because but what we're doing is we're put it by
putting keeping poison in us. We're self-destructing. We're literally like
trying to like harm ourselves. Right? So in other words, in order for that anger,
in order to deal with that anger, what we need to do is we need to allow that
anger to come up and we need to feel it in its fullness in order for it to come
out. Because it's kind of like horrible expression, a horrible way to think about
it. But think of it kind of like having diarrhea or having or vomiting. It's in
the let's look at vomiting because we'll talk about it coming up. It in order to
feel better, it has to come up and out. So we none of us like throwing up. But
when we do, we know we're eventually going to feel better. Right? Because the
bad stuff that's in us is now out. It's the same thing with the emotion. We have
to let that come up in order to be able to let it go. If we will let it come up
and fester on it and feed and whatever, that's not good. That's good. But to let
it come up and now face it fully and let it go, that gets it out. That is
overcoming because it's choosing to not keep the thing. It's a no, that is not a
part of me. That is not who God says that I am and that I'm not keeping that thing.
That thing's going. And now we fully face it and deal with that. And I don't know
how on earth I got on that subject. But anyway, maybe it was like the struggle
and like experiencing pain. Oh, that's what it was. Experiencing the pain and
the emotion, allowing fully facing what it is that you're going through instead
of ignoring it and thinking, I shouldn't feel like this. I shouldn't. I shouldn't
be thinking these things. And because I'm going through this horrible struggle
that all this stuff is coming up, I should be a better person. I should get
past this to show whatever. No, the struggle is to allow all those things to
come up so that you now have the opportunity to let them out finally. But
in the desert, that's why you feel all that pain. It's finally taking the lid
off so that all of this stuff will come up and now you have the opportunity to
let it go. Just because we don't feel something doesn't mean it's not there.
And so when we're going through the desert, through the wilderness, through
those struggles, God is saying, okay, let's get the poison out so that you
you stop being in a toxic or a septic internal state. He's like, I know that
it's damaging you, but because you don't let yourself feel the anger or feel the
fear or feel the whatever, and you keep cycling it, it's just staying in there
and it's doing horrible damage. So we need to
let that thing come up.
And now, and so let the thing come up, fully face it,
make a choice about whether or not that's staying
and choose instead.
No, it's not staying, I'm gonna let that thing go
and then it's gone.
And that is how we overcome.
We don't overcome by just not feeling the thing.
You overcome by fully feeling the thing
and making a choice about it
and choosing instead to let it go.
Now, one of the ways that you can do that is,
what I do is whenever I feel a very intense emotion
and I don't wanna keep it,
I'm like, okay, this is not healthy,
I know this isn't right
and I'll use anger as an example.
What I'll do is I'll get alone with the Lord
and allow myself to fully feel mad
about whatever it is that I'm mad about.
And I don't mean fully feel mad where I lose control
or I wanna like hit something, I don't mean that.
I mean, I just allow it to come up
and then I go and I allow the Lord to bring his presence in.
So I basically ask the Lord to bring his presence in
so he's with me while I'm mad.
And I feel like I'm literally sitting in a cloud
of his presence while I'm mad.
And I learned multiple things from that.
I think at least two or three.
One, I learned that God fully accepts me while I'm sinning
and that I'm allowed to be in his presence while I'm sinning
and he doesn't reject me.
And that is not the God that I was ever taught about.
But God is not threatened by us.
He's not threatened by our choices
and he's not threatened by our sin.
He's much bigger than all of that.
So he fully loves and accepts us unconditionally.
So we just sit in it, in his presence
and we learn, oh wow, God fully still loves
and accepts me anyway.
He doesn't love and accept the sin.
He loves and accepts me regardless of what choice
I'm making at the moment.
So anyway, and regardless of the fact
that I'm struggling to not believe the Lord,
which is what sin is and all that,
he still loves and accepts me.
So I feel, I experienced that, like, oh my word.
I'm experiencing what it says in the Bible
is true about the Lord where he said,
I am unconditionally loved and accepted.
This is really wild.
So anyway, I'm feeling the fullness of my emotion.
I go to the Lord with it and fully sit in his presence
while I'm feeling that emotion.
And I then in his presence, he doesn't correct me.
Nothing, he doesn't tell me, Ashley,
these are the Bible verses.
You know better than this.
This is what you need to do instead.
You need to forgive.
You need to do that.
He doesn't tell me to do anything.
He just, he just lets me be.
And his presence heals me.
And suddenly in his presence, I have everything that I need.
And the thing that I was mad about,
because what we get mad about is the fact
that we have this need that isn't being met.
You know, whether it be, you know,
just that we didn't feel loved or felt disrespected
or felt, you know, just whatever the thing was,
or it felt out of control.
We felt insecure.
We felt afraid, whatever it was.
All of a sudden God, we're in the presence of God
and he provides all of those things for us.
So you suddenly feel like you have the thing
that you got mad for not having.
You suddenly feel that you have that from God
and you no longer need to be mad.
And so the madness goes away.
And then God heals you, heals you internally.
And so the reason, and he begins to heal that place in you
that is triggered and gets you mad.
It's the wildest thing.
So it's like multiple things happen.
You finally feel loved and accepted and fully identified
like, oh my goodness, God, I really am okay with God.
I really am this loved and this accepted and this,
I don't know, just fully okay as I am
with the Lord.
And then, you know, because he's the all sufficient one,
he being in his presence provides for the thing
that had triggered your emotion.
You no longer need the emotion anymore.
So it goes away.
And then you're, and then he begins to heal that place
in you that gets, again, like I said,
it gets triggered for, you know,
and impromptu to start like getting mad or whatever.
Anyway, that is how I safely deal
with feeling the fullness of emotion.
Because for one thing, we're always,
we're afraid of emotions because we think
I'm not supposed to feel this way.
It's sinning.
So me feeling this way means God's mad at me right now.
And we have to go to God and write a different record.
We have to go to God and experience something different
because we're believing he's mad at me.
Okay, well, let's go and see.
And it's scary because we're like,
oh no, I know what I'm gonna find out,
but God says different.
So what do we choose?
What I've always believed about God,
which has gotten me to life that I live this far,
you know, meaning like, you know,
any struggles that we have or whatever,
that's what that's, that's the fruit of it
is all these.
bad things I've been believing about God and I don't want my life like this.
So if I want something different, I better start believing something
different about God.
So what does God say?
God said, Ashley, actually, that's not true about me.
So what is true?
I fully love and accept you.
And I've already, I've already paid for your sin.
There's no more sin to pay.
I mean, there's no more payment to be made for the sin.
I'm very unthreatened by your sin.
I'm very unthreatened by your choices.
I'm way too big for that, though.
I can handle it, you know?
And so you just go to him and experience the different experience that he
actually is and backs up what he says that he is experienced that he really
does deal differently with you than what you'd always heard would happen.
If you went to God, go to God and find out.
And it's scary, but you have to choose that.
If he says you'll get a different experience, you have to choose that.
You have to risk, you know, all of your fears for the fact that God says he'll,
he'll treat you differently and you go and you experience it.
And once you experience it, it totally wipes out anything else you'd ever heard
before, because God himself, you actually experienced God himself, as opposed to
somebody telling you about him.
And it just logically made sense to you.
Which would you rather build your life on actually experiencing him?
So anyway, I find that very, very important.
And so that's that, that, like I said, that's how I safely deal with the
emotions because, because I'm in his presence dealing with them as opposed to.
As opposed to feeding on him or allowing temptation to come in and
we act on the emotion or anything like that.
The whole purpose of the emotion is to feel it, to let it come up.
It's like throwing up to feel it in order to let it out.
And you do that in God's presence.
And anyway, that has made a huge difference for me.
And and it's made it and talking about, you know, how did you start changing
your sense of identity of who it is that you are?
Another thing that's not only helped me, but helped other people that I've
talked to about this and I'm giving them this like practice or exercise is.
Um, is to, is while you're feeling any feeling, whether it be mad or you're
sad or you're disappointed or, or you're not feeling good about yourself or
whatever, just go to God and just sit with him and just see how he responds to you.
What does God act like when you're feeling like you are and you'll
find that he won't correct you.
And if he does correct you, it doesn't feel like correction.
It feels like.
He's just, he's trying to affirm to, you know, I really do love you.
This is, and this is who you are and whatever, as opposed to cut
that out, you know, better.
You know, I think of that as correction, but where he like speaks out these
positive truths that technically I suppose it's correction, but it
didn't, it didn't feel like that.
He's just affirming to us over and over.
No, no, this is who it is that you are, you know, and, and people and it'll
make us it, and it's helped me and other people not be so afraid of God.
Cause again, we're giving ourselves an experience of God and saying, okay,
he says he's like this, so let me go put myself in that place and
experience him and see what he does.
See what he's really like and let him show up in my life as he wants to.
Who does he want to be with me?
Who does he want to be right now?
And just let him be that thing as opposed to, well, I think God's this.
And here's my standard and he better show up like that and whatever.
No, just go to God, which is recklessly, you know, feels like
reckless, abandoned, feels risky.
Just go to God and see who does God show up as who does he want to be?
And then, and, and you'll, it'll heal a lot about what you believe about God.
It'll heal a lot about what you believe about yourself, because we're supposed
to get our sense of identity from him.
Who does he say that we are?
And I don't mean whether or not you like Mexican food or what, what
your personality is or whatever.
I don't mean that.
I mean, I mean, just like the, the essence of, of who you are, like that
you're, that you're good and that there's nothing wrong with you and that you're
creative and that you love beauty and that you, I don't know, you appreciate.
Um, you appreciate things that the Lord created, including people that feel very
unlovable, you know, or whatever, you'll discover things about yourself that are
so deep that you don't even have words for, but you just allow yourself to sit
with him and be perfectly okay.
Even though you don't have words for why you're okay.
or what identifies you as being okay, or what your personality is, or what your characteristics
are. You may not have words like righteous and holy, and you may not have any of those words.
You're just like, I'm perfectly whole. I'm perfectly okay. There's nothing wrong with
me deep down. It doesn't mean we don't have flesh to overcome, but who it is that we are,
our identity is in our spirit. It's not in the part that's sinning. It's not in the soul or
in the body that's not believing God sometimes, because that's what sin is. It's the not believing
God, and that's what our soul and our body does, but our spirit that's one with Christ and no sin
and nothing corrupted can be in Christ. Well, then it means that if our spirit is unified with Christ
and nothing corrupted can be in Christ, it means that your spirit does not sin.
So your spirit is perfect, and that's your seat of your identity. Nothing's wrong with you.
Your soul and your body are looking to your spirit for instruction, to feel safe, to feel at peace,
to feel okay, like they're always looking to the spirit. Are we okay? I'm scared. And the spirit
is the parent. Your spirit that's one with Christ, which is perfectly fine, it's always
giving stuff. It's always the one who gives the instruction that he's the king. He's the ruler
over the soul and the body, letting them know what's going on and what God says and urging them
to believe. But the soul and the body are not the ruling force of you. Who it is that you are,
when you sit there with God, what you'll experience is your spirit. There's nothing wrong with you.
There's nothing wrong with your soul and your body either. They're just making choices,
and they just need to be redeemed. But remember that there's nothing wrong with them in the fact
that you're going to have them for eternity. Jesus, when he died and rose again, he rose in
the same body that he died in. And you know that because he had the wounds, right? But he can now
walk through walls and he can now translate, you know, appear and disappear and all of that. But
he could still eat. You know, he ate fish with him. He had breakfast. And he's like,
I prove to prove to you, I'm not a ghost. Give me something to eat. Remember? And then he told
Thomas, but stick your hand. If you don't believe me, stick that it's really me. Stick your hand in
my side. Stick your fingers in my hands. He wanted to show them this is a real body, but I can now do
different things. I'm the same person that was with you. And then when he ascended to heaven,
he literally rose. So his body went to heaven. He didn't just like disappear or his body fell
into the ground and he died. He literally kept his body. So there's nothing wrong with our bodies.
They just need to be redeemed. They just need to be changed from flesh that can die into spirit that
can ever die and isn't subject to physical loss, just like Jesus body. And it's the same thing with
our soul. So my point is there's nothing wrong with your soul and your body. They just need to
be redeemed. Just the parts of it that lead to death just need to be overcome. So, so I say all
that as an encouragement, don't villainize yourself. There's nothing wrong with you. There's not even
anything wrong with your body. It's afraid. It's very scared. That's all that's the only thing
that's wrong with it. It's just very scared. And so it's acting out like a, like a rebellious
teenager or a little two-year-old who's throwing a temper tantrum. It's just trying to do the,
do the best it can, trying to survive, trying to keep up, trying to keep itself alive or keep you
okay or battle diseases. It thinks it's, it's that it's threatened by, and then it thinks,
oh my goodness, I couldn't overcome it. And now I have to be, or I couldn't, I couldn't battle the
disease and now I've been overcome by it. And so it ends up taking on cancer. It ends up taking
upon these things, right? It's just afraid. It doesn't know that it is who God says that it is.
And that's our job. We have to tell it, no, this is who God says you are. And so, and it has to
be an eternal choice that we make. This is who God says that I am. Therefore, this is what I'm
going to declare. And this is what I, what I choose. This is what I'm going to live out.
That is faith is choosing that whatever God says is reality really is our reality
because hope won't get, won't get us there. We can't, it can't be, oh, well,
if God says it's true, then I guess it'll happen. No, we have dominion. God says you have to come
into agreement before it'll happen. I've said it, but you need step two. In other words, you need
your agreement before it will actually happen. So come into agreement with me that it really is true.
And then you'll start seeing it, you know, in your soul or in your body or, or whatever. So
I say, is this helpful or yes, absolutely. Okay. Okay.
No, absolutely. So even instructing your body that it is that it doesn't have to go through
a death process, because it's alive, like your spirit is.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So and there's different schools of thought on that I immortality is
not something that I've like looked a lot into where or really pursued it's been because there's
so many different things that we can learn from the Lord. But I do believe personally,
that immortality is absolutely possible. I believe that that's what Jesus's resurrection
proved is that he was the last one that had to die. The reason that he had to die,
as opposed to him being quote, unquote, immortal, I mean, even if even though he was,
but he that he died, as opposed to being more immortal and never physically dying.
The reason that he had to do that is you have to go through the thing
in order to prove that it doesn't have a power over you. So we had to go through death,
and then rise up to prove that it wasn't final and to prove that it didn't have the final say
and to prove that it wasn't threatening. But simply avoiding it doesn't prove that it that
it doesn't have power. You have to go through it to prove that it doesn't have power of you.
So that's why Jesus had to go through it. And that's how he was, because that's how it had
to be conquered. It had to be proven that it didn't have the final say and that he could rise
from the dead, even after he died. But he was the last, but because of what he did,
that conquered death, we don't have to. Now, very few people, I say very few,
compared to the number of people that have lived on the earth. Very few people have ever
understood quite how to do that. I have friends that are looking into it and have studied it quite
a lot. And so they anyway, for me, it's I'm not a definitely not a subject matter expert on it.
I believe that it's possible, but it's not anything that I'm that the Lord and I are pursuing
together. So you know, God might, God might strike me differently, you know, later on,
he might just say, actually, I want you to look into this more. So but right now,
it's not an area that I'm focused on. But yeah, I do believe it's absolutely possible.
I do, too. I read a book over 20 years ago, that talked about that.
I really? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they say some people say that John has never died,
you know, and that John's still around, or, you know, obviously, Enoch, and didn't die.
Elijah didn't die. I mean, there's all kinds of people that didn't die. But and but I'm talking
about like people that aren't even in the in the Bible. And those people, you know,
claim to be 400 years old, or, you know, whatever. So anyway, I absolutely believe that it's possible.
And, and I believe that that's what Christ's death and resurrection bought for us and improved
was the fact and here's and again, the whole point is the fact that God creates good things,
he created the spirit, the soul and the body. And he means for those to stay around.
No, even though even when someone, even when someone dies and is buried, Paul talked about
the fact Yeah, but if even the ones who are dead first, they're going to rise first, and God's
going to redeem their bodies, they're going to either going to redeem them that he's going to
redeem them in the air and all of that says that they were going to be changed in the twinkling
of an eye. No, and it said they were, I don't know, receive new bodies in the air or something
like that. But the new bodies, I believe it's just simply the fact that it's their old body
translated into into spirit as opposed to flesh. Just like and the reason I think that is, again,
the example of Jesus, Jesus always goes before us and shows us what to expect and goes through it
so that we always have had someone who's gone through the experience first. And that's what
happened to him. It was his own body just translated into into into spirit. So I think
that that's what it means by getting a new body is it's not that as if this body is bad,
and God needs to replace it. I was like, No, it's fine. I don't create bad things. I just need to
train. I just need to, you know, remove the death from it and make it eternal. So anyway.
Yeah, no, I understand. I've come across those kind of teachings.
Yeah, it wasn't unfamiliar.
Oops. Well, and I know we're over time. And was there any last thing that you were wondering
about or had a question about before we get off? And I'll have this recording, I have to wait for
it to process and everything before I can download it and upload it. But when I get all that taken
care of, you know, I'll let you know. And that was there. Is there anything else before we jump off?
Um, just maybe anywhere in the Bible that affirms our goodness. And then yes, I have a few.
questions. One, I remember a story when you were in a hotel room and you needed the funds to
purchase it. And you spoke about how the Lord came through, but I was wondering what happened
at that. Everyone wonders that. Yeah. Um, well, when I say the Lord came through meaning like,
um, it, the, it wasn't that, how do I explain this? I called a friend for help
and meaning like spiritual help and said, okay, here's the situation.
Um, I can't hear from the Lord when he wants me to do. Um, and, and I don't know now what to do.
And so the friend watched me through some spiritual aspects of it. Okay. Well, did you do
this? And what have you in the Lord been doing the past few weeks? And, um, when, uh, and I,
and I told them and they said, okay, well, here's what I want to do. They said, I want to,
I want to give you, um, they said, I want to send you money so that you can leave the hotel and you
can start your journey again. And then we'll just be what God does, you know, on your journey from
there, like does do things change and God starts, you know, providing you the physical means by
which in other words, in money to go from town to town, town or not. And, um, uh, because God's
not a genie, you know, we're just, uh, we just are wondering, so what is he doing? What does
he want to do now? Is it time for her to go back to the States? You know, that kind of thing.
Anyway, so he's the, so I had a friend who actually gifted me the money. Um, and I don't consider
that. I mean, sure. God works through a variety of things and yeah, I have my friend and I called
him. And so God works through stuff like that, but it's not the same thing as what I had been
doing thus far of what I refer to as like living by faith where I'm just like, okay, Lord, I don't
know where the money's coming from. And I'm just trusting you to provide it, you know, as it's
needed. This did not fit that same, um, uh, did not fit that same form or format. Um, and the
reason that I don't tell people the end of that story is because it's really hard for people to
hear and to understand, because we always like the stories of when God stays in the 11th hour
as God will is like, okay, well, no matter how bad it gets, you know, all of the stories that
I've heard from so-and-so they always, um, uh, they always, God always comes through for them
always, no matter how bad it gets, you know, eventually something will happen.
And what's hard to explain is that no, sometimes it doesn't.
Um, but to me, that was one of the most precious times, if not the most precious time of my whole
journey with him was that desert place, that wilderness, that struggle, because not only was
it hard then, but I then went to a city where I had to heal from the fact that I just gone through
that with the Lord and I didn't understand. And I was hurt by him and I, and I didn't know what to
do, but here's what I learned from it. And here's why it was so special is, and why again, wilderness
experience and a struggle is a place of tremendous intimacy with the Lord. And it's this, and it's
this wrestling because you're just this close. And it's that when that happened, I told the Lord,
I said, Lord, I choose you over you ever sending me money, ever you ever helping me out of the
situation, so to speak. Um, I choose Lord that you are provider, not that you give me money.
And I choose that that is who you are to me. You're not my genie. I'm not going to look to
you to be my genie. You're not going to look to you to give me money. I'm going to look to you
to always be my provider. Even if I don't never see it in a physical manifestation,
even if I have to walk through all the consequences of not seeing the physical manifestation,
like I get sick and die or I, and, and God doesn't heal me or I, um, you know, I don't get the money
and the deadline comes and goes and, and I never got what I, what I, what I needed.
God, I choose that you're not the fulfiller of all of my physical, all these physical
manifestations. I choose that you're deeper and more important to me. I choose that you're always
that you are my provider. And, um, and, and that began to, and so I made a choice and a deeper
choice with God than I ever had before that he was who he says that he was. And that that was
the most important.
thing to me. And that I wanted him to be that regardless of
what it made my life look like, regardless of the hardships,
regardless of the physical manifestation, or the lack of
physical manifestation, you know, the lack of money, the
lack of funds, the lack of health, the lack of
relationship, the lack of whatever, that that did not
change or determine God's character, that God still was
the same God in the same way still doing the same things to
and with me that he'd always done. And that had that hadn't
changed and wasn't changing and wasn't different while all
these physicals a while I was in all these physical
situations. And so anyway, in a manner of speaking, God didn't
come through. And it's not that and that's a horrible way to
explain it because it sounds like God didn't really come
through. He came through and the fact that he was he still
was who he says he was. He didn't, I didn't see any
physical manifestation in the way that I wanted to. And so
anyway, but I, I'm perfectly fine with that. Did it hurt?
Yes. Did I struggle? Oh, my word. It was so hard. I mean,
you're a single woman alone and literally no one knew where I
was. No one in the world knew where I was. And I, and then
here I was, I couldn't get out of the city. And I couldn't
leave my hotel, but I couldn't stay at my hotel. So what, you
know, what are you going to do? And, and funny enough, all of
the hotels both before and after that, I always had to pay.
Or maybe all before that I always had to pay before. So I'd
never been in that problem before. And then when I but when
I was in Venice, they had me pay when I left. And all the
other hotels require me to pay before. And it was so
interesting that that was the one that I couldn't pay was
after I'd already racked up the expenses. In other words, I'd
already stayed. I thought it was fascinating. So anyway, that's
what happened is that, again, I chose no God, I choose that you
are good. And you are provider. Even though I don't, I, you
know, you didn't send money, or you didn't allow for this, or
you didn't, whatever, that that doesn't mean that you're not
good. It doesn't mean that you're not provider. And I
choose that that's who you are. And so Lord, you and I are okay.
We're not, there's not a problem, just because I have
this physical situation I'm trying to work through, you're
going to help me with this physical situation, you're going
to emotionally be my stability, you're going to spiritually be
there with me, you're going to give me ideas. I'm an active
participant in my life. God's, God's not the only adult in the
room. I'm an adult, I can do stuff. I'm an active
participant. And that's what is very important for us to do as
we mature in the Lord is we learn how to be an active
participant without controlling. That's really hard to do. Because
being an active participant means that risk is required. And
we also risk disappointment. And it means that we're
actively participating without getting to control the outcome.
That's really, really hard. And most people choose that if they
have to be active participants, they want to be in control. And
so they take the prodigal son route and say, okay, God, you
provided me all these means by which to do them, I'm going to
control my outcome, I want to control how much I make, I want
to control where I work, I want to control, you know, how many
kids I have, or who I marry, or whatever. And they want to
control it. And it's real. And then there, you've got the other
extreme of like, God, you know, I'm just a servant purist, I
just wanted to, you know, and so just just provide for me, and
they're not actively participating in their life. And
God wants the middle. This is no give all the control and
determination of the outcome to me, but actively participate.
That's really hard to do. Anyway, those are some of the
things you know, that I learned is, and God, and I grew closer
because of the Venice experience, even though all this
time later, like, why did God do that? I don't know. But I do
know that I didn't get this out of it. I got this out of the
fact I made a choice. I chose him over him getting me out of
my situation. And I stayed by that choice. And I said that
choice. So anyway, and that he wasn't respond, what didn't hold
him responsible for my situation, or I didn't like I
didn't hold his character responsible for my situation,
like, oh, it means God's bad. Or it means that, you know, I'm
bad. You know, like God says, neither of those things are
are true. So I choose that that's true over understanding or ever having that situation
reconcile in my mind. So and that's what was important and that's what was powerful about
that situation. So yeah. That makes sense. Yes. Thank you for explaining that. You're welcome.
Well I will let you go and I hope this has been helpful and encouraging and I'm giving you some
stuff to start with. And also last thing I'll mention is remember everything always goes back
to two things. Remember that God is who he says that he is to the degree he says he's that and
that you are who he says that you are to the degree he says that you're that. So you can shift
into rest in a moment if you believe either of those two things. The reason why I have an entire
rest intensive if it's just those two things to remember is because we have struggled so much in
certain areas of our life to believe those. To believe that either he is who he says that he is
or that we are who he says that we are or that he is it to that degree. That he isn't that much
or that we are that much of what he says that we are. And so I give people like
like stair steps to learn it. I give people like you know like a like tool that kind of like
help them get a bit closer and help them get a bit closer. Help them get closer because there's
there's a reason why we're in so much unbelief against the Lord. We have reasons. We have things
like Venice. Yeah. You know all these things of oh well it means this and it means this and God
God abandoned me or God whatever and we gave meanings to things and those things have to
become out how we have to come out of agreement with all of those things that we were holding
against the Lord. And if we have a hard time coming out of agreement you know in one fell
swoop we have to take it a step at a time. And there's nothing wrong with that. God's the one
who built process. God's the one who built the idea that things take time and that they have
steps. And God doesn't create anything that's evil. So there's nothing wrong with being in a
journey where something has to take where you have to do it incrementally. So don't get upset
at yourself if you're like oh God I'm sorry that I don't have enough faith. God's pleased at what
faith you have. So give him what faith that you have. Stretch and believe him to the degree that
you can. And then he'll just and then you'll just build more and more. So yeah. All right.
Good. Let's see. And then how important it is to tell us tell ourselves the truth in alignment
with what he's saying who we are. Like to not say to ourself what's not true about ourselves.
Yeah. Yeah. Honestly and everyone's different. I don't talk to myself a lot and like tell my soul
and my body those things. You can. You probably remember from the rest intensive that you can
talk to your soul and your body. And even David did. David talked to his soul. He says rise up
on my soul and praise the Lord and whatever. So you talk to your soul and you talk to what you
tell them things and you can absolutely do that. But remember they're not going to believe you
unless you believe it. So what you have to do first is you have to choose. In other words you
have to have faith. What faith means is you have to choose that if God said it's true you have to
choose that that's your reality. That that is the reality that you live in. Remember that it won't be
a reality until you make it so. In other words you make it so in your head in your in your decision.
It has to be a free will decision that if that's what God's that and you that something is real
that something is true that that's the world that you live in that that is your kingdom.
You can't it won't you won't find proof of it. You won't see it in your past. You won't see it
in and sometimes you might have a hard time seeing it in the Bible. It doesn't mean it's
not there. It means that you know you're looking for it and you just haven't found it yet you know
or maybe you haven't even seen it in other people's lives. But God's telling you that
something is true. You're like okay if he says it I've got nothing but God's word which is what
faith is. Faith is belief in God's word what he said and then you make a choice for yourself
that is that is what is true. So think of it kind of like this what God does. We keep wanting to
think that okay if God tells us something that it's just going to happen and it's just and it's
just going to be true and that's not what happens. What happens is God says something's true and he
lets it go. He says this is truth. Actually this is a possession of mine. I created this. It's
important. Here it is. I'm telling you about it and now you have the choice to take it into your life.
And so it's sitting there just because God created it and believes in it and
says it's true doesn't mean that you have taken it. So pretend this is not my
hand and it's just standing and it's just sitting out there. That doesn't get
to benefit my life. This truth is not operating in my life. It's not making
things happen in my life. So God can say he's good. This is an example. God can say
he's and that he's good to you. Is that I'm good to you and this is the truth
and it's how I've created life to be. This is reality. There you go. In order
for that to be reality in your life you have to decide of your own free will.
Okay God if you if you I could pick anything to be true or to believe
anything to be true but if that I want to choose only the things that you
choose. If you chose this one then God this is the one that I choose is
actually reality. You have to make a willful and intentional decision that
it's so. Not hope that it's so. Not choose to believe that it's so. Choose that it
is so. So kind of like and there's one other way that I thought I should
describe it and it just left me that and oh you will feel like you're making
it up. It'll feel like when you're a kid and you wish that life was different and
so you imagine for a while and pretend that it's different. That's what it's
like. That was educated out of us. Yeah that you're not supposed to act on your
imagination because it's not real right. That's what it's gonna feel like. You're
it's that the adult in you is gonna buck at it. You're gonna think I'm not
supposed to do that. I don't get to pick reality. You do. You do. If God said it, it
means it's a reality that can be chosen. Right. So you choose it. Now here's what
you can't choose. You can't choose how it manifests. So you choose that God's good.
What you don't get to choose is that he's gonna do specific things for you.
Yeah. That we don't get to choose that but you always choose okay no
God is good. So now that you choose that God is good and you choose it now you
turn your soul in your body. You live like it. You think okay now that I'm
choosing that this is reality. You always act off what you believe is really
reality. Okay so this is my choice now. Now what decisions do I make now that
this is true. Now that this is the way things work. Even though I haven't seen
it yet. This is the way things work and how do I know that? I know that because
God said so that's the way things work. What would I do? What decisions would I
make? How would I act in this particular situation? And then and then you start
and then that's what changes your actions. Your actions are always
determined by what you believe is reality. You will always always always
subconsciously without fail without exception always do what you really
believe is true. Always without fail. So if we are not acting like what we
believe is true we don't really believe it. We can say that God's good and that
he loves us and the unconditionally accepts us all he want but if we don't
act like it then we actually aren't believing it. And that's what James is
talking about. He said your faith without works is dead. In other words
faith without acting on it isn't really faith. You really don't believe it because
you'll always act on what it is you really do believe. So that's how you know
what you believe is what are you doing? What are you making? What decisions are
you making? That kind of a thing. So you choose that you are who God says that
you are. That you really are good. And you asked about scripture verses about
about good. I don't remember all the scripture verses but think about the
fact that you know for instance you no longer live but Christ lives in you. Yes.
And so things like that. He's perfectly good. And it says that in the Bible it
says God is good period. So things like that and then it says also that
goodness is a fruit of the Spirit. It's not something that you work for. It's a
fruit of the Spirit meaning that we're joined with his spirit. That's the fruit
we bear in our body. It means that you already have love. You already have joy.
You already have peace. You don't have you already have patience. You're not
supposed to have to work for those things and work on those things. That's
what the flesh has to do because the flesh doesn't have them. It has to work
for them. But we just receive it very naturally from the Spirit. The reason
you're not seeing all of the fruits of the Spirit to the degree that you want
to in your life is because of because you don't believe that you have them. So
if you don't believe that you have them then they're sitting there and you
haven't grabbed it yet because you haven't chosen that it's true. Once you
choose that it's true you start acting like it. You start you start feeling
peaceful. You start feeling joy. You start feeling
loving and acting loving. And like, where did this come from? It's because it's who you are. And you
chose that you were the thing because God said, you were, God said, this is the reality. Your
reality is this is your identity. So there you go. Now, do you choose it or not? Cause you don't get
to have it, see it in your life until you take the risk of disappointment in yourself, in God.
And what if this doesn't work? What would this do to my life? If I like start acting like it
and reality proves to be very different, you know, it's all of this risk that goes on in our,
you know, ideas of risk that go on in your head of all the things that we could do that could
happen. We think, what if I choose that it's reality, but it's not really reality. So it
won't work out. Well, that's what you have to risk. It's why it's so hard. It's why faith is
so hard. So you choose it. And you're like, you know, if God said it's true, then I have to believe
that it's true. I'm going to choose what God said over all of this proof that I see in creation,
which is simply only manifesting the fact that we've been telling creation lies about God.
So that's the way it acts. It acts as if a God isn't true because that's what we've been telling
it is true. Tell it something different now so it can start acting like, but it's true,
you know? So anyway, that's what faith is and that's what you choose about yourself. So yes,
you can talk to your soul and your body, but before you do that, you have to shift into your
spirit. In other words, your spirit always believes God. So you have to choose that that really is
true about you, that that really is, that that really is reality, that identity that God says
that you are. And it'll feel risky because you won't feel like that to you. You won't feel like
in maternally anything's changed. Logically, it doesn't make sense. You want to find all the
scripture in the Bible. So finding scripture in the Bible in order to prove, you know, between
you and the Lord that what I'm saying really is true, that is fine. But where you can't find
enough, oh, I just need a little more. That's not faith because God's told you in certain parts of
scripture and you find in between you and the Lord, you listen to the Lord's spirit in you and
he'll tell you, you know, whether what you're reading is true or not and what it means and all
of that stuff. He's his own interpreter, you know, but if you're like, yeah, but it's not,
I need a little more. Yeah, it's not enough. I need a little more. Then what we're doing is we're
using the Bible as our proof to try to convince us. And God's saying, no, I want to be enough.
Did I tell you, did I tell you in your spirit? So looking for it in the Bible, that's fine.
Relying on it where to the point where God telling us isn't enough. And we keep throwing the Bible
back at God saying, yeah, but God, you, I don't have it enough in here. Yeah, but I don't have,
you know, I still don't have it enough. And then we start using God and we start putting the Bible
between us and God. That's the end we start and create. So that's the problem. But otherwise,
you know, just finding like the second scripture, that's fine. Absolutely. Okay.
Thank you so much. I so appreciate our time. You're welcome. I did too. It was good to see you
and I will, my husband and I are going to be leaving town. So we will have that. We'll have
spotty internet connection for a bit. So I might not get to uploading the video until next week,
but I'll try to upload it as soon as I can for you. And then I'll tell you how to access it.
So you'll have a login and everything. Yeah. Okay, perfect. And then
are you, you're planning on doing another breakthrough class sometime next year?
You know, I, I don't know. I honestly have no idea. I'm taking a, a, another sabbatical or
how you get through whatever from, from the ministry for a while, other than doing like
one-on-one consultation. Cause I feel like the Lord's wanting to teach me like some deeper things
and help me understand some things that I don't understand that I'm hoping will be helpful to
other people. But you remember that what I based my ministry off of is my life and what I've learned
from the Lord and what he and I live together. So there are some things that I feel like I'm
missing in my relationship with the Lord that I want to have and and to be deeper in. And I think
that he wants me to focus on that and then I'll have something to give. But so that's why I think
that he wants me to stop is just to focus on, on he and I for a while, but I'm doing the one-on-one
consultations. That's been fun. But so I, so the thing is, I don't know if I'll do another one or
not, but but in the meantime, I do have these. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Okay. All right.
to see you, Wengie.
You too. Have a good vacation.
Thank you and Merry Christmas.
Oh, Merry Christmas to you too.
Bye.