Okay, so welcome to Love Seats.
This is the Love Seats for the fabulous lady
rocking our 50 and above age group category.
This is a female only session,
and it's really a great time
for people to ask some dating questions
or questions that you might have
that hopefully I will be able to answer
or I will call on the audience to help answer
in the meantime.
And you know, I was talking about this
with Jackie earlier, and you guys,
I really want you to remember
whether you're asking questions in Love Seats,
whether you fill out an Ask Jackie,
you put it in the Facebook feed of Bride School,
or you're in one of those separate chat rooms,
remember that when we all give an answer to your question,
it is really based on what we've all learned,
but it's always through our own filter, right?
Like I'm gonna remember the parts of Jackie's teaching
that resonate most with me,
and I also take her teaching
plus what I've been through in life,
and I make it really work for me.
And so sometimes you're gonna hear questions and answers
in any of those forums,
and if it doesn't feel right for you,
it doesn't feel right for you.
Like everything that we do in this program,
there's some guidelines,
there's some direction that we're going in, best practices,
but of course, every story is different.
And so don't like ever feel like, oh my gosh,
always test what somebody says to you,
especially somebody else in the community and not Jackie,
including myself,
always test it against what we've been trained
and attest it with the Holy Spirit and the word of God.
We would never want you to do something
that the Lord is telling you not to do or vice versa.
So that's always like the blanket information.
So I'm just gonna, actually, Cheryl, you're on,
will you open us up real quick in prayer
so that we just bless this time together?
Sure.
Hey, father, thank you that you're a good, good father.
You love us so much as your daughters.
We thank you Lord God that you desire your best for us
and that you use Holy Spirit to do so.
So come be with us right now and God our words
as we can talk and we invite you here in Jesus name.
Amen.
Okay.
So I'm gonna review a little bit
and I always think this is good reminder
cause I kind of see the same questions over and over again
when it comes to like profile and dating
and online communication and what level one,
level two, level three.
I'm gonna kind of just give that general summary
but I want you to be thinking in the back of the head
if you are ready to go into the love seat tonight.
So if you go into the love seat,
it's not the hot seat, it's the love seat.
So you might be stuck somewhere,
maybe stuck not getting from level one to level two,
level two to level three.
You're not getting any dates or you're in a relationship
and you really wanna unpack it
and you're gonna kind of share your story.
You're gonna be brave and you know,
we're gonna use the tools that Jackie has given us
to see how we can help you.
So the first thing to remember you guys,
level one is just your,
it's just, it's not even low stakes dating.
Level one are all the people that you're in community with
and your acquaintances.
All of you should be hopefully trying
to enjoy level two dating.
Level two dating is really a great opportunity
to find out more about somebody.
In level two dating, it is appropriate to find out
who they are today, what's important to them today
and where they're going tomorrow.
Jackie always talks about dating in the present.
If we start those early phone calls and initial dates,
digging too far into the past,
it's just not appropriate information for level one dating.
Here's how you handle that.
Now, what you guys consider personal
might be very different.
I spent 20 years in full-time ministry.
A lot of my information has gotten shared.
My cell phone number is on a business card
in probably a thousand churches in Nashville.
So people have access to me and information about me,
maybe more than some people.
So what I find okay to share in those early level one
datings may not match what you're willing to share.
I'm kind of like, if it's in my book,
if it's on my resume and most people know about it,
it's information I'm willing to share.
How I handle those tough questions when they come up early.
If they, so why did you never get married?
So do you have any daddy wounds?
How do you feel about sex outside of marriage?
Like, wow, that's a really great question.
And I feel like that's really too soon for us to unpack that
I'd be happy to give you like an overarching answer
about that.
But over time, if we choose to go further
in the dating relationship,
I would be happy to revisit that conversation
so that you feel like I can give you a good answer,
but that's just too soon for us right now.
So that's how I handle somebody's questions for.
me that are super strong right away.
Now how I handle if they start to vomit their whole life story, and let me give you a quick
example.
I just had a video date this weekend with a gentleman who has primarily only met women
in a 12-step meeting.
And if you've been to 12-step meetings, people vomit their life story pretty fast.
And so he shared a lot of information in a very short amount of time.
I didn't even have time to like, time, like I didn't even have time.
So when he finally caught his breath, I was like, yeah, that's probably a little too much
information for a first date.
I really appreciate that you trusted me with that information.
I just don't want you, that's just not typical first date conversations.
And he was just like, oh my gosh, but that's what happens in an AA meeting.
I'm like, I know.
And this is not that kind of a setting.
But in an AA meeting, you have a lot of confidentiality, you have shared trust.
It's a very different dynamic.
And so instead of shaming him, I was able to kind of turn that conversation around.
So I don't want you to think I'm never confronted with inappropriate conversations kind of upfront.
And then the other thing that I know has come up a lot is when physical activity should
happen.
And people have very different opinions about this.
I've been there, done that.
And so I think kissing is amazing.
I even think sex is amazing.
I'm just learning, I'm going to put the sex in my marriage and I'm going to put the kissing
and the romance in an exclusive relationship, but that's for me.
And so you really have to kind of discern that.
Don't let anybody else in this community tell you that.
And I know Jackie would want us to really pay attention to the things that would cause
us to ignore those yellow and red flags.
And so if he's hot and kissing him is going to make you ignore all the red flags and you
might need to rein in the kissing.
And so those are just some of the general things, but I want to open the floor tonight
because this is your night.
I was just trying to give you enough time and a question.
Is there anybody that wants to raise their avatar hand and ask a question, like a basic
question or you're like, I need to unpack a story, I want to go in the love seat.
So who wants to be the first brave person with either a question or going into the hot seat?
I mean, y'all don't want me to talk for 34 more minutes, right?
So I know y'all are dating.
I saw in the private group.
Okay, Vicki, great.
Do you have a question or do you want to go in the hot seat and unpack a relationship?
Question?
Question.
Okay, what's your question?
And if you can hear my mic okay?
Yep.
Some people said that it's too muffled.
Okay.
Mine was just a, I have a question, I'm throwing the scenario at you.
I had a, this was years ago, I had a blind date.
It's a neighbor, friend, and we got along well.
We talked and talked and talked and just kept seeing each other, just hanging out, hanging
out, level one, level two, you know?
And then nothing became of it.
We kind of drifted, did our own thing.
Well then I find out later, he's like, oh, well, I figured if, because you hadn't kissed
me yet, you didn't like me.
And he's like, well, I, you know, would have figured you would have kissed me by now if
you liked me or wanted to pursue.
And I'm like, but that wasn't the case.
Did he try, did he try kissing you?
And if he did, what did you do?
No, he, he didn't.
He didn't.
We just, it was a very friendly conversation and date, you know, dinner conversation.
I mean, we were like buddies, if you will.
So was he expecting you to kiss him then?
If he didn't reach in for the kiss, was he expecting you to reach in?
By the sounds of it that I found out like a couple of years later, you know, we're still
friends.
So Jackie would probably call hogwash on that, right?
Like we want mature, masculine, marriage-minded men who are going to take initiative.
You're on the date with him.
So you've already let him know that you like hanging out with him.
Hopefully you've told him you've enjoyed that conversation.
Now here's the part you can step back and own, and we can always own, because Jackie's
even asked that of me.
Did you let him know you had a good time?
Did you let him know you want to pursue them?
And so I'm just learning to get bolder and bolder.
I never leave an alive date in doubt.
I never want him in doubt.
So I have learned the art of at the car, goodbye.
I just say, Hey, I had a really great time.
I don't know where you're at with it, but I would love to see you again to see where
this could go.
out there that is totally okay.
You can think about it.
And if I don't hear from you, I wish you the very best.
But if you do wanna reach out to me,
I'd love to hear from you.
Boom, and I get in the car.
Like I literally do the turn.
And if they kind of go, oh, I had a nice time too.
Before I even drive away, I'm like, yeah,
he ain't calling me again, this is it.
But I will never second guess that I made my intention.
So it's possible, Vicky.
It may have not been the actual, did you kiss him or not?
Maybe you never gave him the green thumb or the thumbs up
that you wanted to do something more than just hang out.
And you guys, I think this happens a lot when we're friends.
And I don't know about y'all,
but like there was never this idea of hanging out
when I was young.
You either were asked out on a date or you weren't.
And then I went through this season, not gonna lie,
in the last 15 years,
where I thought I was on a date with a guy
and he starts talking about his girlfriend.
And I was like, wait, I thought I was the date tonight.
And he just thought we were hanging out
because we did work together.
Like we didn't work at the same company,
but we had similar relationships
and he just wanted to hang out with me,
which I thought was a little weird
because when I'm exclusively dating somebody,
I'm not gonna meet alone at night,
especially with alcohol, with a person of the opposite sex.
But for him, clearly that wasn't a boundary issue.
And so I am learning,
we've entered into this quasi hanging out situation.
So if you want it to be a date
or you're not sure it's a date,
if you like him, you gotta ask, or you gotta tell him,
like, hey, I don't know if you're planning this
because you just wanted to hang out with me,
but in case you were wondering,
I would love to consider that this could be more
than just hanging out as friends.
I'd like to consider that maybe we can go out on a date,
seeing where that could go.
If that's not something you're interested,
just let me know and it's okay and we can keep being friends.
It is so much harder to just say it upfront,
but it is so much easier walking away from these dates.
I spent and wasted way too many nights
the day after and two days later,
second guessing, being confused,
was that a date or not a date?
Did I let him know he liked me or not?
Is he gonna call me?
Is he not gonna call me?
And I have learned, especially if it's a first date,
you guys, he hasn't really gotten to know me,
really at all.
I was literally this weekend mid conversation with a guy
and he asked, have you ever been married?
Now, mind you, I actually think we got matched
on another site and I think he didn't recognize me
and he totally, he's the same guy I'm thinking of
because I've been on so many Zoom dates or video dates,
I can't remember them all anymore.
And I'm like, I think this is the guy
that did a video date with me last year
and totally blew me off 10 minutes into the video date,
like totally decided he was not attracted to me
and I could just tell and I never heard from him.
And I think somewhere in my response,
he recognized who I was because I answered the dumbest,
very simple question and all of a sudden,
he was just gone.
And I was like, and in the moment, was I stung?
Yeah, like, am I stung when a guy has a video call
and doesn't wanna see me again or a video date?
I mean, I dropped a couple of hankies on those men
in the he said, she said,
and I pretty much got that very polite,
you seem really nice, Renee, but I have no intention
of wanting to have a further conversation with you.
I wish you the best of luck.
In the moment, did it feel like, you know?
But you know what?
He doesn't know all who I am
and so if he's not my guy, he's not my guy.
So I have never been able to handle
that kind of early rejection as well as I have been able to.
So Vicky, it was a long way to answer.
I think it was less about the kiss
and more about you didn't make your intentions clear.
And I love that he kind of threw it,
he lobbied it back on you.
And so I've been on dates with guys
that never stepped up to the plate
and took the masculine lead.
Oh, well, Renee, we're not dating because of you.
No, I'm not even gonna receive that
because dude, you didn't step up.
So he might've just been a wimp
and he's just putting it on you.
So, and it is okay, you guys,
to state your intentions clear.
Like I've got a date tomorrow night
and he looks like a good old teddy bear.
He might want some kisses earlier than I do.
So if he goes to lean in,
I'm just gonna give him the side hug
and I'm gonna be like, hey, wasn't gonna say anything
but it might be a good opportunity for me to say,
I don't like to kiss on the first date.
As I get older, I'm realizing I'm really not gonna,
I will hug you.
Like I'll give you a good old side hug
but like handholding and kissing,
I'm not gonna do that till we're further along
in the dating process.
And it has nothing to do with how I feel about you.
It's just the boundary I've set up.
Again, we can't expect men to read our minds.
I think, especially as women, we're so intuitive.
We can read each other's minds so well.
We forget men really cannot read our minds at all.
So we need to help them.
All right, questioner Hotzi, who else wants to go?
That was good.
Anybody in a relationship right now?
Okay, good.
Hilda, oh good, Hilda, I'm glad you're in my group.
I wasn't sure which age group you were in.
So I was like, awesome.
So now everybody saw what you posted today.
So get us up to speed,
because on like your dating relationship,
how long you've been together, da, da, da.
So when you ask your question,
if it's what I think it is,
the group will kind of know where it's coming from.
Give me one second, Renee, I'm so sorry.
No, you're okay, you're okay.
Does anybody else have a quick question before,
and ignore the sound, that's my dog.
I'm sitting up at the counter.
So you have a nice, pretty background,
but she can't sit on my lap.
And so she's making these whiny sounds, I apologize.
Any other quick question for the group before Hilda goes?
Vicky, what's your second question?
I actually had a date this weekend
with a high school classmate.
It was Friday through Sunday.
And-
The date?
Date, yeah.
Yeah.
The date lasted all weekend?
Yeah, yeah, because it was a music festival.
And we stayed at Hocking College by Columbus.
Anyway, and had twin beds and whatever.
Anyhow, separate.
But the thing is, is I thought,
three and a half hour drive each way,
be nice opportunity to talk,
get a little better acquainted kind of thing.
I mean, even though we went to high school.
But he kept, the radio was up.
He likes the music, he likes it loud.
And so I'm trying to talk,
and I said, you know, it's hard to hear you.
It's, you know, it's nicer if I could turn the radio down.
So he turns it down a little bit so we can talk,
and then he turns it right back up.
And so-
Back up for a second.
Is this somebody that you've been dating a while?
Was this your first date?
What was this?
Okay, how do we say this?
Yeah, this is a real date.
Does he, did he think it was a date?
I'm gonna say yes.
Or it could have been a hangout.
Because like I said, high school, from high school class.
How did he, how did you initiate you guys going together?
Who initiated that, him or you?
That's him, that's him.
And he, again, the backstory is longer.
How did he, so how did he ask you out?
Did he say, do you want to come with me to this weekend?
Yes, yes.
Yeah, he paid for everything.
He paid for all the tickets.
He paid for the dorm rooms.
So before this, had you guys been dating, talking?
Hanging out.
We'd gone out a few times.
Well, you have a situation-ship.
Yes, yes I do, yes.
And we're, again, it's long.
It's, I've got other-
It sounds like,
do you feel like it is unclear and undefined?
Yes, but I also know that we're at different levels
and it'll probably only be a friendship.
Okay, so if he thinks it's only a friendship
and you're just hanging out,
that's why the radio went back up.
You're just hanging out
and you're going on a weekend trip together
and you're just pals.
He's not thinking I'm gonna use
this three and a half hours
to get to know somebody I'm courting.
And so he doesn't even think he's being rude.
That's just my guess.
Stacy's got it with me, so.
Okay, prior date, again, backstory,
because he's been sober four years now.
We had dated a little bit when he was still drinking.
Again, it's a long backstory.
And this time here, he said,
he thanked God for turning his life around
and he was thankful and he said,
now he just needs the right girlfriend.
And he said, God told him to call Vicky.
And so he called me
and that's when we started hanging out again
and seeing more and more of each other.
And then he invited me.
Anyhow, but I mean, it's close.
Oh no, I mean, that's helpful.
So I feel like he's kind of dancing a little bit.
It's a long story, too long.
Well, it sounds like he's dancing
and he's not being intentional.
It's like God said, well, check out Vicky,
and that may or may not be
because God wants you to be together
or it's low hanging fruit
and you're a great first person
to start dating healthy with.
So I would say this, I have to be honest with you, Vicky.
I don't know that I would subject myself
to an entire weekend away with somebody.
I don't know where that relationship is.
And I don't know, I definitely would not do that
with somebody I'm at level two dating.
And I know some people on here might disagree with it.
And I'm not saying that that's Jackie's role.
I think it's different if somebody lives a thousand miles
away, they're flying in to see you
and they're gonna stay someplace safe
and you have an entire weekend booked together.
That makes sense to me.
But if it's somebody in your back door
and you've had this on again, off again relationship
but you're now back at only level two,
I think going away together is gonna create
a lot of questions about what the intention is behind it.
So my bigger advice to you is you have to decide,
A, do you like who he is right now,
the way he is if nothing else changes?
And is he somebody you want to be
in an exclusive relationship with?
And would you wanna pursue that direction with him?
If the answer's yes, then you probably need
to have a clearly defined conversation with him
because you have so much history.
Are you at level two?
Are you in a committed relationship?
Is he pursuing you?
Because only knowing that will help you know
how you should have responded to the radio thing.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like if I'm in the car with a guy
who I think is my boyfriend,
I have very different expectations about that
than I do if he's just my buddy.
So my suspicion is you need to have some more clarity
about where he is at.
But I first want you to decide if you want this for you.
Okay, then if you don't wanna be
in a dating relationship with him,
then going away together for the weekend,
even in separate rooms is probably not the best option
for you because it's just too easy
and it's like putting on an old sweatshirt,
but it's gonna distract you from your spirit mate.
So that's just Renee's advice.
Test it with Jackie's content,
test it with the Holy Spirit.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
I want Hilda to get, is Hilda back?
Where'd she go?
Is Hilda around?
Yes, I'm back.
I'm back.
I apologize about that.
No, no, no, you're good.
I just wanna make sure I don't forget about you.
And the rest of you keep your hands raised
so I'll know to call you next.
Hilda, go ahead.
Okay.
So my question, I posted it earlier in our group
and I was wondering like what's suggested to do
like Bible studies and devotionals and praying together,
like how soon or how late in the relationship?
So we're at a level three.
We've been dating for a couple of months now.
We're long distance.
And we were seeing each other weekly
for about a month and a half.
And then I'm back to work and other plans.
So we plan on seeing each other
in a couple of weeks from now.
I mean, I will say this,
obviously, Jackie talked about
how in those first few discovery dates
that you're probably not gonna pray together,
do a devotional together, you guys,
but like totally random.
Like I had a guy that came in from out of town
and for our second date,
and he was like, I'm just gonna meet you at church
because he goes to church very regularly,
very involved in his faith.
So him showing up at church
wasn't that big of a deal with me.
And it certainly didn't bother me.
I've been in full-time ministry for over 25 years.
So if I'm on a date with somebody
and I start dating somebody who has a very deep faith too,
and he's very far in his ministry,
it's possible we're gonna start praying together
and talking about scripture and good books
within the first couple of months,
even while we're only in level two dating.
I would 100% think it is completely appropriate
by the time you hit level three,
you should be starting to pray together.
You should be starting to unpack scripture together
because if that's something you want in your marriage,
level three is the place that that should be happening.
Or you can invite that question like,
hey, how do you feel about praying for me?
How do you feel about doing a Bible study together?
I mean, ask them.
So Hilda, you had mentioned when you replied back to me,
I'm glad you asked this question to this group
because I feel like when you talk about faith is a big deal.
Now I know for a lot of us who are like deep Bible girls
and we go to church and we go to Bible study
and we're in a life group and like,
we want these men to love Jesus with us and get in the word.
And if it's so not a part of his story,
of course we're not gonna bombard him with it right away.
But if he loves the Lord
and he is deeply entrenched with it as much as you are,
it's probably not gonna happen in the first few dates,
but it's probably gonna happen much more quickly
than it was with some guy who's like,
yeah, I've not been to church in like three years,
but I'm really open to it.
Do you know what I'm saying?
So I think some of it is it depends on the couple.
But I would definitely think by level three, it's super important.
Like I kind of feel like for me, and I think Jackie has talked about this and some of you
guys have gotten confused about this.
If you're going to go into an exclusive level three relationship, there's actually some
questions I'm going to ask before I commit to an exclusive relationship.
Because remember at our age, we're all in here because we're over 50, right?
So we're in here because we're over 50.
So we're not going to be exclusive with somebody who doesn't see that there could be a potential
towards marriage.
So with that litmus test, I'm going to see if he wants to be, if my boo wants to be exclusive,
I'm going to be like, all right, we need, we need to unpack just a few things.
One, I have no intention of having sex outside of marriage.
Is that something before we go into a level three, is that something, how do you feel
about that?
Because even if he says, well, I don't really want that, but if you want that, I'll try
to help you out with that.
That's actually not good enough for me.
Like I need a little bit more because I enjoyed sex when I used to have it.
And so I don't think I am strong enough to be the one with all the willpower all of the
time.
And so I want to do it God's way.
So I would rather him say something closer to, you know, Renee, I've been feeling conviction
about that too.
And I really want to honor that.
I want to be abstinent too.
You know what?
I don't know that I would have had the guts to say that unless you brought it up Renee,
but I really have the guts to say it.
So, whether it's talking about faith, whether it's talking about how you, you know, I mean,
I'm not saying you talk about your finances and how to raise kids, but some of those very
core things that are super important to you, I think it's okay to start having that conversation
of that and seeing where their comfort lies.
Now they might say, gosh, I'm not ready to talk about that yet.
And you can say, okay, and then you can kind of decide, but hold that hope that answers
your question.
I feel like you guys are far enough along.
You both have a strong faith.
There should be nothing wrong with it, but I would say ask, like offer all of it to him
and see which one he wants to do.
So if he says, you know, let's just start praying together or let's just start reading
scripture together.
Or it might be as simple as you guys don't go to the same church because you're both
long distance.
Hey, you know, why don't you, you know, why don't I, why don't we watch each other's sermons
and we can, you know, ask questions or talk about it.
Like sometimes talking about a sermon is the best.
I have found the easiest way to start talking about faith with a guy.
You both watch the same sermon and you're like, all right, so what kind of stood out
for you?
Oh yeah.
That stood out for me too.
Well, what stood out for you?
You know, what part did you like?
What part did you get a little bit confused with?
So sometimes just talking about a sermon is a great way to start as opposed to diving
into a Bible study, unless that's already part of his story.
Awesome.
Hope that helps.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
You got it, sweetie.
Brenda.
Hey, I'm still kind of new to all this dating and I, on Facebook dating, probably a few
weeks ago, somebody liked me, but just felt kind of intimidated by him cause he talked
about how he's a fitness guy and he has all these pictures of his muscles.
And then he has a, he's a triathlons, triathletes who has picture of his bike and the wall of
all his races that he's done.
And I thought, okay, how it just felt like, you know, I just assumed that it would be
too much.
It wouldn't be a good fit based on that.
So I didn't know, just wanted some feedback as I'm learning to kind of discern people's
profiles.
I hesitated for like probably four days and I finally clicked like, and he didn't take
it beyond that.
He's probably moved on.
So.
Yeah.
I will say this.
I have learned for me now that I've done the online thing pretty steadily for the last
two years in this program, more than I ever did.
I've done online dating before online dating existed, right?
Off and on over the years.
And I do it for three months and I hate it and then I get off and like whatever.
And sometimes three years later I get back on.
This is the longest I've done it the most consistently and I definitely do it different
than I ever did before.
I could not tell you how many profiles I've liked.
That's how many I've liked.
I couldn't tell you.
I couldn't tell you how many have swiped left or right on me.
I can't tell you how many guys have stopped talking to me like mid conversation or after
the first day.
I can't tell you how many scammers I've encountered.
It's just a lot.
And you know what?
If I only focused on that, I would have given up a long time ago.
What I really try to notice are the times I can get into a good conversation with somebody,
and have a good video conversation with them, or go out on a first date, learn more about
them and learn more about myself.
So the first thing I wanted you to do, Brenda, is not worry about the outcome.
If it's even a remote possibility that you might like his profile.
profile, and you want to like him first, like him, and then let it go.
Like just let it go.
If he doesn't pick you, you have no blessed idea why.
Here's the interesting thing.
I personally, and I know not all women do this, I personally only look at the profiles
of the guys that have already liked me first.
I want to know that he at least saw my photo.
He probably didn't read a dang thing I wrote in my profile, but he at least saw my first
photo and thought, oh, she's cute.
Because this is how fast I think guys decide.
Hot, not hot, hot, not hot.
Swear to God.
I literally think they take three seconds to decide on us.
And they're not worrying like we are.
Oh, well, you know what?
She says she likes dinner and theater.
I don't really like theater.
He ain't doing all that kind of analysis.
I promise you, he's not.
So in that first sweep, he's probably saying yes to anybody that's a maybe.
And you know what the truth is now?
I say yes to anybody that's a maybe.
Because in Facebook dating, you can't get to the next profile until you decide.
Some of them will let you like wait on the decision, but some of these stupid apps now
make you decide yes, no right away.
And I'm like, yes, no, yes, no.
So unless he looks like a complete weirdo or creep, I just choose yes.
So guys like me first, I like them back, and then I never hear from them again.
I can't even tell you the number because I've just stopped worrying about it.
So I'm just going to encourage you, Brenda, if it's a maybe, say yes.
But also, I'm going to give you a little story and do not prejudge them.
So there was a guy, totally hot in my area.
He had all the triathlon photos, too.
Now, I used to do triathlons.
And I'm in a season of getting back in shape.
But I know if I stood up against a triathlete right now, he'd be like, all right, girl,
you got a little bit more weight there to lose.
And so he hit every box of why I should have said yes to him.
But I let my own security say no.
So I swiped.
He liked me first.
Mind you, he liked me first.
And I still swiped left because I thought, he's going to see me in person and think I'm
too fluffy.
Wouldn't you know, seven months later, he shows up with his girlfriend on my Israel
trip.
He's on my Israel trip.
And he is just as hot in person as he was in the photo.
And guess what?
His now girlfriend that he met in Texas was with him.
Y'all, she could have been my identical twin.
And I thought, are you kidding me?
So like, it just made me realize I should have given him a chance to turn me down.
And clearly, he's not my guy, because Jackie promises to tell us all of the time that if
he's your guy, you can't screw it up, you can't screw it up.
But that was a really good lesson to me, Brenda.
And I hope that's good for the rest of you, too.
Don't assume he's going to turn you down.
You don't know that.
Now, he might, but we really have nothing to lose.
OK, great.
Stacey.
Hi, ladies.
So I just wanted to share about, kind of do a contrast, as Renee was talking about going
to church with someone, like who's churched.
So I am talking to a man that is local that was introduced to me through one of my great
friends.
And she goes to church with him.
She knows this man.
And so she, my friend D went up to his name is Cord and said, Cord, you're single, right?
He's like, yes, ma'am.
And she said, I know someone who really loves God.
Yes, ma'am.
And she gave him my number.
And he immediately reached out, actually got her in the chat.
And then we've been talking and stuff.
So number one about the prayer.
OK, he's a man of God.
I know he's a man of God.
And I know his circle.
So he had a procedure.
And before he went on that procedure, I talked to him the night before.
And I said, can I pray with you?
So I prayed over him as he was going into a procedure.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.
It wasn't long.
It was just like the blood of Jesus covers you.
Holy Spirit covers the hands of the surgeon.
So that was, I think that's OK, y'all.
If someone's sick and you pray for them, I mean, that's biblical.
Doesn't mean that all of a sudden you're going to have a bond and all that.
So I think sometimes we take things way too seriously and like religiously.
And it doesn't have to be like that.
Second thing, church.
So then this week I was talking to him and I was talking to him last night.
And he's like, so I'm going to church.
Sunday. And if you would like to, if you want to come and sit
like between me and D or. And so I said, so court, are you
asking me to come to church with you and sit by you? He said,
yes, if you want to, he goes, whatever you're comfortable
with. But we haven't met face to face yet. And I've looked up
looked him up on Facebook. I know what he looks like. And
he's handsome. He said he doesn't have any clue. And he
doesn't like social media. He's rudimentary with all those
things. You know, he's four years older than me. So he
ain't thinking about all that. And I'm like, you don't even
know what I look like. And he's like, well, I'm you know what,
Stacey, we're at the age where I'm basing things on more on the
heart of someone, you know, so he does not know how hot I am
yet.
I love it. And again, say, I love that you kind of affirm
that. So Jackie is going to give us guidelines and answers. It
doesn't mean that has to be the answer every single time in
every situation, because I was on a zoom date with a guy. And
he started to get weepy about something going on with his
daughter. And I know he's a believer. And so I literally
just said, Hey, would you be okay, if I just prayed for you
right now? And he's like, Oh, my gosh, I would love that. Now, if
he said, Oh, that would make me uncomfortable, but I'm not a
problem. Like, you know, I mean, like, always ask for the
invitation to do it. Sure.
I want to add one thing, Renee, I'm almost done. You're good.
And so what I decided is because I know that church, I know the
people in that church, I know the leadership there. And I
don't want to all of a sudden show up on the first row,
because I'm, you know, I'm very churched. I was on staff at a
church for 16 years. I know a lot of people in this community.
I didn't want to all of a sudden show up, meet this guy for the
first time on the front row of church. So I said, You know
what, I don't want to do that. Not this week. So what we're
going to do is we're going to meet up on Tuesday night for
dinner or for a beer or something like that. So I think
that if someone is interested in you, that they're going to
respect that decision either way. Because if he was like,
Well, then forget it. You don't want Well, then he's not my guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's good. That's good. That's good.
Stacy. Really good. Sandy, what's your question?
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's it's more of a situation. I need
clarity on because today marks exactly one month that I've been
talking and dating with this guy. We date at least two to
three times a week. We talk almost every night. He's joined
1822. I'm really a nice guy. I can see he's really into me. I
don't have any, any doubt about that. But he's very impulsive.
And he's coming across very insecure. And for me, it's
triggering me. And I know it's me. It's me, right? Because I
mean, he didn't want to hold my hand on the first day. I was
like, dude, I'm not ready for that. He asked me if he wanted
to be exclusive. And I said, baby steps like I we were just
getting to know each other like Lewis, come on, like, slow it
down. And so, you know, then he went radio silent for like three
days. And then of course, we had the conversation like what did
you exactly understand when I said slow it down. And so now
we're dating like, you know, pretty intensely, right. And I
would say like, we are exclusive without having to put a label on
it. Like I don't feel I need to put a label on it. Then he went
and he changed his Facebook status in relationship with me
tagged me on it. And I left it pending. And so he's like, well,
um, are you going to confirm? And I'm like, No, I'm not going
to confirm. I'm not ready for that. Like, I'm just not ready
for that. And so finally, I took his hand for the first time. He
looks so cute, like three weeks in, he just came in and with his
little t shirt and his jeans. And he was so cute. I took his
hand when we went into the movie theater. I felt ready for that.
Right? Then we then he he I for some reason, he understood that
like now he put a short arm over my shoulder, which to me makes
me feel uncomfortable. I'm not ready for that. I'm just like, I
need space. Like I need some. I'm not ready to walk in tandem
with you like that, you know. But now it's like, I feel like
he makes me feel guilty for not being at the same pace as he is.
And today I got a message from him after I send them this
picture. You know, I went out with my friend this cute little
picture with me with my hat on, you know, he's all you look
beautiful. And he's like, so complimenting. And then on the
next breath, he said, I said, Oh, I thought that was so I said
that was so sweet. You know, thank you. I said, God knows
exactly what we need. Because he said, I'm a lucky man. I said,
Yeah, God knows what we need. And he goes, Well, you haven't
exactly said that I'm your person. And then crickets
because I'm I'm out with my friends. So I don't I didn't
even see the message. Then an hour later, he said, but I'm
gonna listen to what the Lord said and relax and take it easy.
But he says that, but he doesn't.
And so I'm like, I was like not furious,
but I was like, I'm feeling manipulated
and I don't like that feeling.
And I'm feeling like guilty because he's feeling this way
and I'm not there and I really like him.
I really, really like him, but I don't,
I can't deal with the insecurities.
Like it's just like, it's a put off.
Yeah, I mean, so he's new to 1822
and are they just starting the heart work?
Aren't they, aren't the guys just-
I think they're finishing week two.
They did the heart, the check-in for week one.
And I think this, no, this-
So remember when we did heart work, you guys,
we went on a dating sabbatical for five weeks
because heart work is pulling up a bunch of stuff
and it's gonna bring up all our wounds, our triggers,
the stuff that needs to get healing.
He's trying to date you while he's doing the heart work.
So you may need to give him some grace
that he's getting extra triggered.
But I do think it's okay for us to,
I think it keeps going back to ask for what you need.
We all, if I polled all 36 women
about what do you think is more intimate,
hugging, touching, kissing?
Like you guys, we used to do this
with the high school students
when we went into the classroom.
What do you think is the most intimate thing
to the least intimate thing?
And you would be shocked at what teenagers think
is not intimate at all, that you and I would say,
woo, like that's really intimate.
And so what you think is intimate
may not match what he thinks is intimate.
So you probably need to A, give him some space and grace
that he's gonna be really sensitive right now
while he's going through the heart work.
Two, just say, hey, Lewis,
I really think we need to kind of talk about right now.
I feel like, and you have to decide,
are we in level two or level three dating?
And you might decide like,
I do think we're in level three dating.
That is exclusive dating.
It is a bit more intentional,
but let's talk about physical boundaries.
Let's talk about boundaries like things on Facebook
because I'd rather talk to you about them at the front end
than have you react and feel like it means something.
Or if we don't talk about something,
you get to ask me what it means.
So if you put your arm around me and I move it,
you're allowed to say, hey, Sandy, what does that mean?
Because I think it means you don't like me.
What do you think it means?
Do you know what I'm saying?
So we all think that means something different.
And depending on his dating past,
he might be defining all of those things
as she likes me, she likes me, she likes me.
She doesn't like me.
So you two have to learn each other's language.
All right.
So that was like-
You know how like, if you've been,
for those of you that have been married,
or you were in a relationship for a really long time,
like you guys, I dated my first love.
He was the first guy I kissed in high school.
We ended up at the same college.
I mean, we had broken up by the time
we got to the same college.
We didn't see each other for four years.
Somehow in our senior year,
we bumped into each other again.
And we had both kissed other people in between that.
But there was some,
it was like putting on an old shoe, kissing him again.
It was like, oh my gosh, this is how I used to kiss.
And so I think that's just where again,
we're all over-
I don't have an answer for that.
Is there something else I can't help with?
That's why my computer's talking to us.
It's kind of freaky, big brother's listening.
Right?
So all that to say, we're again, we are the over 50.
So we are all coming to the table.
Most of us are coming into the table
with a lot of dating history,
probably more than we want to admit to.
And so we have to be more honest
with the person that we're dating.
And so I would just say, Sandy, just keep being honest,
keep giving him grace.
And you might even say to him, look,
when I did the heart work, we were on a dating sabbatical.
So you know what?
I'm gonna actually kind of give you space and grace, dude.
Like we're gonna see each other once a week.
I want you to have some nights off
where you can be alone with God,
or you can invest in all that 1822 is offering
so that you have other men to talk to.
Or, you know, I think this is a good question
for you to put in the men's group
and see what some of the other men might say.
So you don't have to do all of the quote, unquote,
teaching from, I don't know, I hope that helps.
Would that help a little bit?
Yeah, yeah, cause we've had that conversation about,
you know, just ask me, you know, just ask me.
And we've talked about the boundaries,
like I'm not ready for certain things.
So he goes, well, then I'll take your lead.
But then he doesn't, like it's...
Anyway, thank you for reminding me that he's in hard work.
I forgot, you know, like for a minute,
because I was so wrapped up in my feeling manipulated
and everything that I just forgot that he's in hard work.
And yeah, thanks for the reminder.
And you guys, when we say the word manipulation,
it's really kind of funny,
because when I read the book,
Codependent No More for the first time in my 20s,
so really long time ago,
I learned, gosh, I'm a people pleaser,
I'm codependent, I care about everybody else.
It took many years before I also heard the word
that's also attached with codependent and people pleasing.
Guess what the word is?
Manipulative.
If you're a codependent and you are so desperate
to make everybody else in the room happy,
you technically become manipulative,
because for you to feel safe,
you will behave in a loving and serving way,
because you want to start to change
the way other people are behaving or treating you.
So in even a people pleasing personality,
we can become manipulative.
So we're all guilty of manipulation.
And usually there's a covert manipulation and over,
and sometimes it's very narcissistic manipulation,
it's very front attack,
but sometimes it's, I'm trying to feel safe.
My suspicion, I don't know this very well,
but just by the way you're describing it
and the fact that he's going through heartwork,
my suspicion is his manipulation
is coming from a place of fear, anxiety,
trying to feel safe,
not because he's intentionally trying
to get one over on you.
Yeah.
I mean, I was, I did finally hold his hand.
I did invite him, I did introduce him to my BFF.
I did take him to worship night last night.
Like we had a great, amazing worship night,
for the first time I'm introducing him
to my church family, you know?
And then today he sent that message up next.
But you guys, isn't that a great,
isn't that a great reminder to all of us?
How many of us have been the Lewis?
How many of us have gotten scared
in these early parts of the dating
and in our fear,
we resort back to old methods of feeling safe again.
That's exactly why Jackie always says
hurt in relationships, healed in relationships.
I never could understand why I would do all this therapy,
read all the self-help books,
and I would seem so empowered.
I would start dating somebody,
my triggers would get enacted,
and I couldn't figure out why I was going back
to my old habits.
It's because I had to learn
how to deal with my triggers healthy.
That it is normal for them to come.
So it's normal for your triggers to be hitting you, Sandy,
and it's normal for his to be hitting.
And so isn't this a good reminder
that if we don't rein in our own triggers,
we could potentially have the person
that could have been our person walk away from us
because they're starting to feel that tension.
And so that's just like,
so I don't feel bad for him as much as I go,
gosh, that's so been me.
Like I so started to get nervous Nellie,
and I start to lean in again,
because I've got more of that anxious attachment
that kind of leans in.
And Sandy, yours might be avoidant attachment.
So he's leaning in and you're like,
okay, slow down there buttercup.
So I think this is a good reminder for all of us,
hurt in relationships, healed in relationships.
It is normal, it is okay when we hit these bumps,
the goal is to just do it differently.
Yeah, I mean, I'm clearly triggered.
Like it just reminds me,
I feel like I'm dating my mother.
And, oh my gosh, no.
That's an opportunity for an upgrade.
It's a revealing for healing.
So you're getting triggered.
You can't affect his behavior.
You can affect why you're getting triggered
and how can you start responding differently?
So it's going back to that revealing for healing.
Like what's God trying to teach you about those triggers?
Because maybe God's allowing this to happen
for you to face these triggers
so that you can finally get healed from it.
Like you guys, the guy that I dated in California,
Jackie and I were just talking about it.
I needed to go through that dating relationship.
There were so many things I did different with him
and I did healthy that I'm like,
I'm so glad I got to practice them on him
because I'm like, wow, I really can let a guy lead.
I really can let him set the pace.
I can really not be controlling.
Like what, I mean, you know,
and so his loss that he didn't pick me, whatever,
he didn't even come out and fly out to see me.
You know, he missed, as they say,
he missed out on amazing me.
That's the way I see it.
But I learned so much from that
that I'm gonna take into this next relationship.
Awesome.
These are really good.
Questions. I hope you guys are feeling like even if you're not the one asking them that you're getting some good noodles like some good like aha moments. I'm going to take this with you. So who else has like to get somebody different to somebody else.
It's we got 10 more minutes so we at least have room for one or two more folks who has a question, they would like to bring to the group.
Ruth, go ahead.
Hang on two seconds here. Okay, so when you start out with this dating process you got the hanky gets picked up, you start dating, you get reciprocation.
You get into level two level three.
Who does the, who says I love you first.
Does it matter.
I don't think it matters. I mean, as long as you can handle not hearing it back.
So you got to be ready that if you're going to plunk it down.
And they don't say I love you back. Can you be okay with that, you know, right, like you have to make sure.
I think what starts to happen is things like this, I really like you, I really like you. I really like this about you. I really like that about you and so the like statements start to come more often, and they start to get much more specific.
All right, Ruth. Yay. Is that where you guys are right now you're in that like, yeah.
How long has it been six months. Awesome.
Does he is he shy at all.
What do you mean by shy, like, like, for him saying I love you first do you feel like it's going to be hard for him to do it.
So it'll be interesting he's a bit of an overthinker. So, says it, I know he's like thoroughly thought this over, like, thoroughly, both sides of the coin.
He's pictured what could be down the road you, you know, that way. But a couple weeks ago we had this really nice afternoon we're just sitting in the park and playing crib time.
And then we just sort of laid back on the blanket and just looked at the clouds and just watch the clouds in the sky change.
There's a really nice day and then the next day I got a text saying I really enjoyed laying, lying down and watching the clouds with you and I got this pink, the pink floaty hearts emojis he uses emojis a lot very intentionally I went, Oh, what does the pink
And I think it means like love is in the air and that's like the first time I've ever had any inkling that, you know, there might be some, you know, deeper feelings.
We have these relationship check ins about once a month.
You know, say, yeah, how I'm feeling about things, you know, what could be better do you need more of this or that, you know, so, you know if you're having those check in conversations already.
It also might be good for you to ask him to say, you know, I don't know what kind of culture you grew up in, say, you know, was saying I love you.
Was that a big deal, growing up for you, not even just saying it to somebody of the opposite sex but did your parents you know did you know like, I want to learn a little as we're kind of progressing along, I want to learn how much you grew up being verbal
with saying stuff.
Did your parents say they loved you guys did you say it very often to each other was it now is this person's divorce never married widowed divorced.
Okay, so like he's got some dating history. And so you can say, you know, is that something that you think you're going to be afraid to say again.
You don't have to say it but you say it with words because, you know, I think that's good for us to know how we communicate, how we would communicate affection going forward.
Have you guys done the five love languages together. No, it's something that came up in like an hour on our second day because somebody was sort of seeing wanted to do that and I guess it's too soon for that, but it is something I sort of thought
it's a great it's also another great way to. Yeah, it's hard for me to because I'm very reserved and growing up, and I think it might be a little bit of a Japanese heritage we don't freely say things like that.
I'm a non hugger, so I've been learning to be a little bit more, not, not so stingy with my hugs with him it's a lot easier but generally with people I like you.
You know you're really special kind of thing. So, when it gets down to the I love you thing.
Then there's also the rejection trigger that happens to you.
I think it's, you guys have been together six months and you're having those monthly check-ins.
I think you could say, Hey, at our next check-in, I would love for us to have gone online and do the five love languages.
And we can kind of unpack our results together.
How does that sound for you?
So this way you're not dropping a bomb on him.
You're going to, and if you do the online version, it's not going to just say, this is your number one love language.
It's going to tell you how much you rate in all of them.
Because even if like words of affirmation and physical touch are my top two, but that doesn't mean I don't like gifts or acts of service.
I mean, I'm all about acts of service sometimes.
Like that's awesome.
And so it'd be a good opportunity to like, okay, physical touch.
And then you guys can talk about that gifts, words of affirmation, like words of affirmation.
I've even learned like, you know, I'm a high eye on disc.
So words of affirmation, you can write it in a note.
You can do a ticker tape parade for me.
I'm all about the praise.
Now I have other people that are words of affirmation and it has to be very private.
They do not like public praise.
And so that is a great way for you guys to start to unpack that.
And that might help you have.
And then maybe in the next month, be like, okay, we talked about words of affirmation last month.
If you're willing, I'd love to go further and talk about saying things like, I love you and say, you know, saying other things.
And just, I would love to learn culturally what's been the norm and what feels comfortable for you.
Just my suggestion that might help.
Thank you.
Um, awesome.
You guys, this was so good.
I was so worried.
Nobody was going to have any questions and I was going to have to make stuff up and I'm glad that we didn't have to do that again.
Um, I don't claim to be, I, I don't claim to be the expert, but I have dated enough and a lot.
And so I feel comfortable and I've been around Jackie enough and I've helped write some stuff behind the scenes with Jackie.
So I feel like I've inhaled her videos and her book probably a dozen times.
And so it's very embedded into my psyche now.
So hopefully I'm doing her content justice.
Any final question or like, aha.
Did anybody have an aha?
They're like, oh my gosh, I had an aha tonight that you want to share with the group.
Cause maybe your aha is the most important thing that somebody is going to hear tonight and not anything I said.
All right.
So when we have no more questions and hey, it's, it's, it's, it's 58.
So we can close us out in prayer.
Who would like to close us out in prayer?
Then who is going to be our brave soul closing us out in prayer?
Laura, did you want to close us out in prayer?
Do you have a question?
I will volunteer to close us out in prayer.
You got it girl.
Okay.
Hey father in heaven.
I just thank you for your love and your care.
Thank you so much that you pay attention to all the details of our lives.
I just thank you for this opportunity to come together and for this program.
And I just pray that you would bless Jackie and all the facilitators, Lord
God, that you'd require extra grace and love upon them and to each and every one
of us, Lord God, just strengthen our faith, bless us with discernment, Lord
Jesus Christ, and your wisdom and your love on this journey in Jesus name.
I pray him.
Amen.
Thank you, Renee.