WEBVTT

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So let's get started, guys, for tonight's topic.

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Paul's in the waiting room, trying

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to get everybody in here.

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Somebody else.

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Hey, guys.

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Good to see you all here.

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Probably going to be some more jumping on here pretty soon.

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And so tonight, if you didn't know it,

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the subject is sex that connects and doesn't disconnect.

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And so this is an open discussion, guys,

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an open forum.

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We did this men's only.

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The women are doing their version

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over on the other side.

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And didn't want it to be co-head, especially

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because of the topic tonight, so that it

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helps to really get to the bottom of stuff

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and be able to give everybody a chance to feel open

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and able to ask whatever questions

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and just kind of go places that you want to go

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and that I think a lot of men deal with certain issues,

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certain things, certain dimensions

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of sexual connection, and that we're

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able to, instead of having it together in a co-ed sense,

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that we can get some more details.

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So welcome, everyone.

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Edward Yee, I have not met you before.

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So welcome, Edward.

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Is this your first time to a last year single event

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or 1822 men's event?

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Or have you been part of an all community event before?

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I kind of recently joined, maybe a couple of months ago.

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But then I just realized that I didn't quite

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join the men's Facebook group until maybe last week.

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And I think I might have went to one live event

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or just watched the replay.

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OK.

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On the men's side or the all community with the co-ed?

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I think that was the one that Jackie was hosting.

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So I guess it was co-ed.

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Good, good.

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OK, well, welcome then.

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Welcome.

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Everybody else I have met before, seen before.

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So it's all good.

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So guys, I'm not going to get into a specific topic

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as far as a specific teaching on this area.

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I have talked about this before.

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But I just really want this to be an open forum tonight.

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Because really, it just, I mean, I could say a lot of things.

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I could talk about all the experiences I've had.

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I can talk about this subject.

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But I think it'd be best served if I was responding

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and we had discussions centered around what you're

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bringing to the table, concerns, comments, questions,

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experiences that you've had, things

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that you want to get off your chest even.

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This is an opportunity to do that tonight.

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Because again, open forum, men only.

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It's very important that this area, man, I get it, man.

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Not only are we having a crisis in men right now,

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we are having a crisis in sexuality.

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And we've been having that for generations, decades,

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really even you can go back to the beginning of time

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because there was a lot of messed up things

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that even happened in ancient times.

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So it's nothing new.

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It is very central.

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It is very germane to the human experience.

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So to act like it's so taboo or to act like sex

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is such a difficult thing, I mean,

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it's difficult in the fact that it's

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so intimate to us as human beings

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and then specifically more as men.

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There's the sense of we have to have everything all together.

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This is a very sensitive area.

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And so getting into discussion about it

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or treating it in any sort of serious,

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respectable way has been challenging

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for a lot of people all their lives.

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So this is the opportunity.

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is the moment to to get down to some of this some of these things so um let's just open up in prayer

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anybody want to do that anybody want to open up in prayer for us tonight

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i think nita or charles you want to try

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who wants to open up prayer anybody

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okay father god we just thank you for this time together i thank you for each and every one of

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these men that are on here men that are willing to come and to have discussion to get involved

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to um take their relationships and take their lives and take their their love lives seriously

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and i thank you right now lord as you'll guide us and lead us into this moment into this

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conversation tonight lord um show us things and show us the truths of what you would want

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to have us know tonight show us and give us understanding lord a depth of understanding

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that we've never had before in this area about ourselves father god let us um let there be a

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revealing lord tonight so that we can be healed in this area so that we can move on so that we can

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experience the greatness the beauty lord that you have for us in this way in jesus name we pray

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amen amen hey david david a question um you're the subject matter expert um you've been a pastor

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at church for quite a number of 20 years something right but did you say i was a what expert

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you were you were a subject matter expert when it comes to all this okay and you have been in

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church for as a pastor for i i mean 10 15 20 years yes just i'm just talking a very

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general question right david in church especially the topic of sex is hush hush hush hush nobody

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wants to discuss nobody wants to do anything and yet there is so much perversion right i'm not

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judging anybody but it is what it is right so when it comes to such a topic that is so integral

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to a relationship between man and woman right why is there or maybe i should ask this question why is

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it not important to have a quiet discussion on this subject because it's everywhere i mean you cannot

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hide it anywhere it's everywhere so why is there a sort of a sort of a i do not know um um

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what's the right word a sort of a um hesitancy maybe hesitancy is not the right word but why

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is it i don't have a quiet discussion on this topic on this call with men and women together

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we and we are all adults just your thoughts now my thoughts are is that it's appropriate to have both

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it's appropriate to have co-ed discussions it's also appropriate to have um separate discussions

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so all most of the um marriage intensives um special workshops around relationships that

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i've ever been to had both where what i felt like or at least the ones that i felt like were the most

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effective had both so they had general discussions in this area and they had a session where it was

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co-ed and then they had moments where there was a separation um and i i think both are appropriate

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um i don't necessarily know that that it's um that has anything to do with church

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as much as it is just you know i think there are things that men want to discuss

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um that they want to work out and have understanding in i think that women feel

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comfortable discussing deeper things with other women and then i think there are things obviously

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that both men and women in a co-ed setting those subjects need to be addressed in a co-ed setting

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in a respectful way um so that in a in a way that everybody can hear the same thing

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so i think both actually is very appropriate and i mean trust me jackie goes there a lot

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in the co-ed stuff all the time anyway um so i don't i we i don't know that we've ever had

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a dedicated session that's co-ed on this area but maybe we should answer thank you

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maybe just a thought thought that if we could have something like this co-ed it would be great

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and i and i'm assuming that nitin that um that you're inquiring about that because you feel like

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hey men want to know from where

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women, they want to hear the woman's side of this story.

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Women want to hear from the men's side of the story,

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that kind of thing.

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It's like, I don't want to make a generalized statement,

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and I don't like it.

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But it's the impression with women

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that men are sex perverts.

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They're pigs.

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All they want is sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.

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That is seriously a very misconception.

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And we want to know, do the Christian ladies think?

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You broke up there.

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So I didn't hear the last part of that statement.

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What I was saying was, just want to clear up misconceptions

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like, OK, all men want to sex, sex, sex, which is not true,

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because we want to love, we want to provide,

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we want to protect.

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And there is much more to this whole dynamic than just.

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So just a thought, and I'm going to leave it with that

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and give the floor back to others.

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Thank you, David.

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Hey, David, it's Josh.

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Can I jump in real quick?

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Go ahead, Josh.

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Hey, so just a thought as to why it's

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important to separate this out.

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And I'm, sidebar, I'm very fortunate

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that I belong to a church where we have small groups that

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are for adults, anywhere from 20s up through 50s even.

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It's a very intimate group.

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And we've had some very, very raw conversations

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in those groups on this very topic, very coed.

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But I think in this place, I think part of the reason

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why it's separated out, this is a dating community.

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Let's bear in mind, there's a men's community,

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there's a women's community.

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But this is also a dating pool at the same time.

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And I think that there's some caution being taken

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by dividing the sexes so they can be a little more open

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in asking some very direct questions with some

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very blunt, direct language.

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And bear in mind, this is not like a group of strangers.

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This is a dating community.

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So do you want all the women hearing

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your particular question on sex and sexuality

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that might get really, really, really direct and blunt

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and vice versa?

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Probably not.

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So there's a little bit of modesty between the sides

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right now that we're trying to preserve, I think.

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And I'm sure there's other cases I

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know, having been in plenty of live events with David

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and Jackie, that in the COVID world,

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it does come up in a Q&A session.

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But I think this is a little more for us

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to, if we have real specifics and things that

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are on our heart, that you don't want getting revealed off

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to the other side of the women that you're

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trying to possibly date.

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So just want to throw it out there.

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No, I think those are good words.

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And I think that's a good perspective, Josh.

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I appreciate that.

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There's a lot of truth in what you just said.

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Yeah, context is important.

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It's funny.

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In the biblical record, there's a lot

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of things that are specific and specific enough.

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But then there's a lot of things that aren't specific.

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And it's like humans come along and they're like,

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well, the Bible says this.

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And then when you're having a situation,

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I'm not just talking about sex.

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I'm talking about a lot of just human behavior.

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The Bible is very vague or very seemingly sometimes

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indifferent about this or that, not specific enough.

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And so if you're a person that's looking for,

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I'm not saying anybody is doing this.

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But what I'm saying is, if you're

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a person that's looking for, can I do this?

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Or can I do that?

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Or just give me the rules.

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Give me the black and white of it all.

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It's like it doesn't work that way.

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Life doesn't work that way.

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Some people want life to work that way,

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because it just makes it easy for you just to either follow

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the rules or not.

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And that's where I think there's an emptiness to our humanity

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when we go about our life in that way.

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And so this is one area that I've always felt like that,

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like if I'm just talking non-religiously,

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I'm just talking about culturally.

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Let me just put it that way.

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There's a lot of sexuality that goes on in our culture

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that's right before us.

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I mean, matter of fact, we're being abused,

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I think, in a cultural sense, all day long

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with sexual imagery, sexual messages, and so forth.

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And we all understand why, because it's

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a very powerful medium.

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It's a very powerful, persuasive, seductive thing

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that's trying to be perpetrated in whatever way it's

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trying to be selling you.

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But we're having Christ in our culture

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where a person's sexuality, there's

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a whole section of our...

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of our culture that's measured by what their sexuality is. Like, not their gender,

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but what their sexual preference is. And I'm like, I don't walk up to people and go,

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hi, I'm David, I'm heterosexual. I don't introduce myself by my sexuality.

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You understand what I'm saying? So it just makes no sense to me

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why this is such an upfront issue. And the reason I'm bringing this up is you're like,

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what does this have to do with our own sexuality and relationships and so forth?

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It's because our sexuality was meant to be very, very intimate, first and foremost,

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intimacy. It's a very one-on-one situation and it's a very private situation. So the fact that

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we would take this subject and even talk about it in a group setting is precarious already.

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You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't have the desire to know people,

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friends of mine who are other married couples. I don't have a desire to know about what goes on in

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the bedroom in their life. I want to be their friend. I'll hang out with them. I'll go on

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vacation. I've got family members. In the course of normal life, I just want to know people. I want

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to know people to a certain degree appropriately. I do not need or nor do I want to know what goes

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on in their life sexually because that's not a depth of relationship that I'm going to go to.

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Now, have I talked and had open discussions with friends and family about this area? Yeah,

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when the opportunity arises and just when the course of our conversation goes there.

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So I'm not afraid of it. I'm not uneasy with it. It's an area and it's a topic of our lives

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that I think should be very, very, very much respected and honored because it's that sacred.

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Right? It's one of the most sacred things that we can do and we can be involved with

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is our sexuality. And it's also one of the reasons why this area of our life is so attacked.

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Does that make sense? I mean, just think of like, I don't know what it is that everyone's experience

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with sex is—wrong, right, or indifferent—but I guarantee you that it's definitely an area

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that attacks so many people in terms of just the taboo, the troubleness, the perversion,

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the general desire is just really under siege. And it has been for all of history.

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Why is that so? It's because it's very intricately tied to the very deepest part of you.

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And secondly, it's tied to the very relationship, the highest order of relationship that human

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beings involved with, the relationship of a man and a wife. Right? So we're already dealing with

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a very sensitive topic as it is. So I want to get into some specifics about—now that I've laid a

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little bit of a foundation on that—I want to get into some specifics and I want to hear back from

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you and some questions and some scenarios, because I think, like I said at the beginning of this

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call, I could just talk as much as I want to and as much as I can on this subject. But if I'm not

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saying anything that's hitting home with you, it doesn't do you any good. So I need to respond to

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some of the things that you might have been dealing with, you might be going through,

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questions you might have. If you have questions on what is the ideal sexual preference or sexual

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behavior in marriage, we can go there. If you have questions about, like, why do I feel this way? Why

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am I dealing with what I'm dealing with sexually? Or this is what happened in my past. And so I want

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to unpack a little bit of that. Anything really is on the table, guys, tonight. So who wants to

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be brave and to just jump in? I have one. Go ahead, Charles. So, okay, so...

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Try to frame it in a question, too, okay? Just so we can all sort of, like, hear what the inquiry is,

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okay? Okay, for those of us who did not enter Christianity aversion, how do we maintain our

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integrity?

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pretty or morality and not be led away by our hormones, you

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know, like not in the sense of going and sleeping with women.

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But that's that's not the issue. The issue is like in my, my

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heart, my head, like masturbation, stuff like that.

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Like, like, if your experience that you already tasted the

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fruit and how good it can be. And it's like, it's, it's hard

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going back, you know, it's so I struggle with that.

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No, I hear what you're saying. So my general answer to that,

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and and this is, it's, it's not meant to just be like, very

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simple to like to simplify it. But it is meant to be able to

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get very straightforward and very, and going towards the

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ideal, the kingdom of heaven always gives us an ideal to

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reach out to. Do you know what I mean by that? Like, God's

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always inviting us into the best into the more, right? So we

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can't walk around guys. And well, let me let me phrase it

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this way. This is what we do as humans, a lot of times,

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especially as guys, we walk around already knowing that

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we're not hitting the ideal in a lot of areas in our life. Okay.

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And especially in the area of sexuality, right? We're not

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hitting these ideals. We're not what we want to be. Okay. And so

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what is our natural human response to that our natural

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human response to that, you know, outside of, you know, of

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an understanding of who we are as sons of God, is that, you

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know, it's defeated already, you've already messed it up,

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you've already crossed the line, you've already you can't take it

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back. Just like Charles was saying, like, once you've tasted

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it's like, what are you what are you going to do with that?

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Right? So God's always asking you and inviting you into the

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ideal. And in sexuality, I think one of the greatest things, we

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have to look at these core truths, right? And one of them

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is the fruit fruit of the spirit, which is self control.

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Oh, my God.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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I don't know what happened there.

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Okay. And one of them is self control. And I think sexuality

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in the area of sexuality, that's where one of the greatest things

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that we can use as a way to go towards is like, if I lay that

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on heavily, like, oh, it's just about self control, you got to

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be, you got to be in control of yourself and da da da da da lay

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it heavy on yet like that. I think that's inappropriate. I

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think what the truth of heaven is, and the kingdom of heaven is

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asking you to do is like, inviting you into an opportunity

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in each and every moment to to operate under self control with

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power of the Holy Spirit. Every situation offers you an

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opportunity in choice. So when I was a younger man, you know,

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when you're when you're flooded with hormones, as a young

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teenager, and you're like, why? Why is this happening to me? I'm

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1415 16 years old, or whatever it is, you started having

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erections. And when he started ever having, you know, just like

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a flood of hormones that are coming into you. I remember in

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seventh grade, I mean, I was so crazed with hormones, hormones.

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And then like, everything turned me on. And I'm in seventh grade

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in class. And I just like, where's this coming from? Like,

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what the I mean, like, I can remember, just, I could not, it

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was like, uncontrollable. And I probably it was probably the

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first time, I guess, in my life, where I mean, that was

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really happening to me and just in a big way. But yet, I can't

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do anything. So in like the Christian world, in the church

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sense, in the biblical sense, you have all these things, but

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you can't get married, you know, you only can do it when you're

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married, and you can't act upon anything like that. Well, I'm

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12. Now, what the hell am I supposed to do between 12? And

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whenever I gonna get married? Like, what the frick are you

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talking about? Like, it's the stupidest, most ignorant thing.

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It's like, well, you just hold this carrot out there. And you

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just hope it works out. You know, like, and there's no

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training, there's no discussion. There's no like, there's no

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understanding. It's just you, you did the deed. And now you've

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just done gone messed it all up, right? You guys, we have to

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understand that. That's, that's not the way of the kingdom. The

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kingdom is a

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an invitation. And it will be that way for all of these things, all of our life.

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This life is one big huge invitation to rise up to become sons of God.

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There are things that I feel like that I might not ever get right.

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You know? And it's like, what am I supposed to do with that? Does that mean I just go to hell

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because I didn't get it right? I mean, that's so religious and so obstinate and so against

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the heart of the Father and the kingdom that is shown in heaven, in scripture.

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It's just, you can't have it both ways. You can't have it like, oh, you crossed the line,

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you done did it now, and grace all at the same time. I mean, that does not compute, right?

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So, what do you do when you didn't come into faith as, you know, come into your adolescence

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as a believer? I mean, it's like everybody really kind of is in the same boat, if you want to put it

356
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in that way. I mean, experientially, I guess, you know, there's different levels of order

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of how you come into this thing. But quite honestly, Charles, I mean, you're going to,

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men and women are going to deal with this, these issues one way or another.

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So, the order in which they come, I don't think is as important as much as it is to

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understand where are you right now and where do you want to go? Where is God leading you into,

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you know, where you want to go? And if you're struggling now, that's great. Struggling is good.

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You know, the difference between the Judeo-Christian faith

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versus other faiths, other religions, is that most other ways tell you, hey, you got to do this,

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you got to submit, or you don't get anything. There's no, there's this, like, there's no help,

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there's no grace, there's no, like, you either find the path, you submit to the thing,

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or it's over with, or you just have to keep on going around the mountain. But in

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the Judeo-Christian tradition, the name Israel means to struggle.

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It means to contend for. And so, when you're contending for fruits of the Spirit,

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like faith, hope, love, gentleness, kindness, goodness, meekness, long-suffering, you know,

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all those, and self-control being one of them, this is an area of self-control. Not to put it

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on you like, oh, you just don't have self-control, or like, you know, you're bad. I'm just saying,

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this is an opportunity. This is how we have to look at our sexuality when we're struggling with

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this. We have to look at it as an opportunity, as this is an opportunity for me to learn self-control.

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And sometimes, when we learn self-control, sometimes we can learn self-control in one area,

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and then it comes over to another area. Can you think of other areas in your life where

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maybe you don't exhibit a lot of self-control other than sexuality?

377
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Yeah, I can think of a couple different areas.

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And so, it's important that you put it in the right context. Now, if you want to just suffer

379
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and just go, oh, I'm a terrible sex addict, or I'm a terrible person because I can't get this

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area of my life together. Nobody will ever love me. This is so taboo. This is so, you know, riddled

381
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with such tremendous guilt and shame and so forth. I'll just never get beyond this. Well, who do you

382
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:46.880
think wants you to think that way? The devil. The enemy of your soul. So, it's a bondage.

383
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It's a jail sentence, essentially, if that's the way you're going to go with it.

384
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But if you turn that on its head and you're like, look, the struggle is real.

385
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feel, this is my real emotions, these are my real feelings, this is really what's

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biologically and physically is going on inside of me.

387
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And Lord, you created this mess. I mean, you created

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this networking of all these things. Even though

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I was born into sin, you can do anything about that. You were born into sin,

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scripture says it, and you were created in biologically and

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emotionally and spiritually the way you were.

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Those are two things you can't do anything about

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in terms of the origin. But what you can do something about it is

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what are you going to do with it?

395
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How are you going to take this and put this in subjection

396
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to the process of heaven and start walking in

397
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self-control, start walking in grace, start walking

398
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in goodness, start walking in and manifesting

399
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the fruits of the spirit in your life?

400
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That's good. In that context, that begins to take out all of the shame

401
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:16.560
and the guilt, which are not kingdom emotions,

402
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not productive in the kingdom, and it begins to give you an opportunity to be

403
00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:27.040
able to win and to start succeeding. Amen.

404
00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:30.880
And it gives you a power and authority

405
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to start saying, this is not who I am, this is not who I want to be, this is not

406
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.000
who my Father God has called me into.

407
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He's called me up to a higher place. I can rise up to that.

408
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Are you going to be perfect in it? No. Are you going to fall and

409
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mess up, but you're going to keep up

410
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and keep going?

411
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I don't know. That's just kind of the way I look at it.

412
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It's an invitation for upgrade. It's constantly an invitation and opportunity

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to move forward. Now,

414
00:32:05.040 --> 00:32:08.800
when you talk about, like a lot of people,

415
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especially in this area of sexuality, people talk about addiction.

416
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People talk about, like, can't help myself.

417
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There's other areas in people's lives where they feel like there's an

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addiction. There's substance abuse addiction.

419
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There's porn addiction. Well, that's kind of like what I'm

420
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getting at. There seems to be this idea that,

421
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especially in sexuality, that you can get to a place where

422
00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:44.240
I just can't help myself. I just can't control myself.

423
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I don't have any... And the fact of the matter is that's

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just a complete lie. And I say that in the most loving way,

425
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that it's just a complete lie that wants to keep you in a place

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where you can't move forward. You can't have victory.

427
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Do you think there are some lies I need to break off of

428
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:15.360
in that area then? Well, I mean, I guess I don't know.

429
00:33:15.360 --> 00:33:18.480
I don't necessarily know if I want you to

430
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:23.920
concentrate on having this spiritual breakthrough.

431
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.280
And that's going to mean everything as much as I want you to

432
00:33:27.280 --> 00:33:32.160
reframe what you're struggling with.

433
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Because you said you're struggling with it. Okay, so it's no big deal.

434
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Struggle with it. Like, have you ever gone to

435
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:44.800
the point where you're in the midst of your most depraved

436
00:33:44.800 --> 00:33:49.920
moments where you're talking with God?

437
00:33:51.280 --> 00:33:56.960
Yeah. I mean, if you're in... Like, most of the time, especially in sexual

438
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:03.520
situations where you're involved in

439
00:34:03.520 --> 00:34:07.680
a behavior that's unbecoming, that's not your best, that's not

440
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:13.120
in your less worthy self.

441
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You know, how many of you have been so encumbered with shame? Most of the time

442
00:34:19.040 --> 00:34:21.040
what you do is you reject anything that's like

443
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what you know to be good. You're certainly not having a conversation with

444
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God in these moments. You know, you're doing everything you

445
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.840
can to avoid the voice of the Lord. You know, this is

446
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:34.960
what Jonah did. Jonah was called to a city to be able to

447
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.719
preach the good news, and he completely rejected. He ran from the Lord.

448
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He's like, I gotta get out of here. I can't hear the voice of the Lord.

449
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I don't want to do what he wants me to do,

450
00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:49.280
and I'm going to try to run away from it all.

451
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.880
What about if you invited God into the very

452
00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:01.280
most depraved area of your life instead of being afraid of it?

453
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.860
Why didn't you face it head on and go, you know what?

454
00:35:02.860 --> 00:35:06.140
I'm in a really low moment right now.

455
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I'm in a really bad place.

456
00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:10.620
And I'm going to invite you God to have a conversation with me

457
00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:14.700
in this moment, like right now.

458
00:35:14.700 --> 00:35:16.980
Can I comment on that?

459
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:17.620
Go ahead, Brent.

460
00:35:17.620 --> 00:35:18.700
What's that?

461
00:35:18.700 --> 00:35:20.300
Can I comment on that?

462
00:35:20.300 --> 00:35:21.460
Yeah.

463
00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:25.300
So I lose the name of the book.

464
00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:28.420
But I read a book once that, and it's

465
00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:31.860
all so relational, that's the kindness of God

466
00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:36.460
that leads us to repentance.

467
00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:40.260
And shame is absolutely from the enemy.

468
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:44.540
So he likened us dealing with our sin

469
00:35:44.540 --> 00:35:48.340
as a pile of nasty stuff.

470
00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:50.460
But God isn't on the other side of it.

471
00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:55.300
He literally is beside us with his arm around our shoulder

472
00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:59.420
saying, we're going to deal with this together.

473
00:35:59.420 --> 00:36:00.620
Yeah.

474
00:36:00.620 --> 00:36:03.500
And it's the relationalness of that.

475
00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:05.900
Like you guys talk about, the higher things

476
00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:10.980
is the relation with him, our identity with him.

477
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:13.340
There's now no condemnation.

478
00:36:13.340 --> 00:36:15.740
All things are made new, just on and on.

479
00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:20.380
Absolutely.

480
00:36:20.380 --> 00:36:22.220
Absolutely.

481
00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:23.820
May I say something really quick?

482
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:25.300
Yeah, go ahead, William.

483
00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:29.180
So I also think a lot of times when we fall,

484
00:36:29.180 --> 00:36:32.020
we look at that as a big failure,

485
00:36:32.020 --> 00:36:35.220
where God looks at that as a failure,

486
00:36:35.220 --> 00:36:38.220
but as a place for us to grow and learn.

487
00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:40.140
And I love when he died on the cross.

488
00:36:40.140 --> 00:36:43.740
He didn't just die for our sins, but he died for the shame

489
00:36:43.740 --> 00:36:45.060
that we have.

490
00:36:45.060 --> 00:36:47.060
Yeah.

491
00:36:47.060 --> 00:36:48.260
Absolutely.

492
00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:52.420
And guys, it becomes very precarious in relationship

493
00:36:52.500 --> 00:37:01.420
because as much as God sits with us in the midst of our mess

494
00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:04.700
and wants us to get through it together

495
00:37:04.700 --> 00:37:08.780
and is full of grace and love towards us

496
00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:16.900
and shame is not a proper productive kingdom emotion,

497
00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:21.020
well, the problem with that is in relationship,

498
00:37:21.020 --> 00:37:27.980
human beings aren't as understanding a lot of the time.

499
00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:33.900
So this is where in relationship,

500
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:37.100
it becomes very, very challenging.

501
00:37:37.100 --> 00:37:40.180
Because especially in the marriage relationship,

502
00:37:40.180 --> 00:37:48.660
where all things are predicated on a bedrock of trust,

503
00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:53.740
and that is where it can get very difficult.

504
00:37:53.740 --> 00:37:57.220
Because I'm sure all of you have experienced

505
00:37:57.220 --> 00:38:01.700
where either you or someone you know,

506
00:38:01.700 --> 00:38:07.100
you lost someone else's trust or they lost your trust in them,

507
00:38:07.100 --> 00:38:10.460
depending on whatever the situation was.

508
00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:15.540
And this area of sexuality can be very precarious in this way.

509
00:38:15.540 --> 00:38:18.980
So this is why we focus in on a lot of,

510
00:38:18.980 --> 00:38:20.940
what is your sexual history?

511
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.260
You know, like, what is your experience?

512
00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:30.100
And so I'm not saying that we focus on it as a community.

513
00:38:30.100 --> 00:38:32.700
I'm just saying that this is why people, when they're

514
00:38:32.700 --> 00:38:35.540
getting into relationships, they want

515
00:38:35.540 --> 00:38:37.820
to have these discussions.

516
00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:39.380
And you should have these discussions

517
00:38:39.380 --> 00:38:40.940
at the appropriate time.

518
00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:44.420
Certainly not a level one relationship, nor level two,

519
00:38:44.420 --> 00:38:48.860
nor level three, usually probably in level four

520
00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:52.140
relationship.

521
00:38:52.140 --> 00:38:56.300
To have that discussion and have all things, all hearts

522
00:38:56.300 --> 00:39:02.820
clear prior to the moment of marriage commitment.

523
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:07.940
So having said that, what are some of the things

524
00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:12.900
that you feel like that might be difficult to negotiate

525
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:16.900
or to navigate in the area of sexuality

526
00:39:16.900 --> 00:39:21.140
as it comes to finding relationship,

527
00:39:21.140 --> 00:39:24.100
finding a love connection, which is ultimately

528
00:39:24.100 --> 00:39:26.820
leading to marriage?

529
00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:27.420
Anybody?

530
00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:32.180
David, I'm sorry.

531
00:39:32.180 --> 00:39:33.860
Can you repeat the question, please?

532
00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:36.340
Well, the question is, we've talked

533
00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:38.580
a lot about our human behavior.

534
00:39:38.580 --> 00:39:40.900
We've talked a lot about, like, the way

535
00:39:40.900 --> 00:39:44.260
heaven is dealing with us and is working with us.

536
00:39:44.260 --> 00:39:45.460
We're talking about struggle.

537
00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:50.620
We're talking about the very germaneness of sexuality

538
00:39:50.620 --> 00:39:54.540
to all of us as human beings, especially as men.

539
00:39:54.540 --> 00:39:59.460
But in the context of working towards relationship,

540
00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.380
getting to know.

541
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.680
know someone, what are your questions around sexuality

542
00:40:04.680 --> 00:40:06.080
when you're ramping up to getting

543
00:40:06.080 --> 00:40:12.160
to know someone in a romantic way, in a romantic

544
00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:13.520
relationship?

545
00:40:13.520 --> 00:40:15.360
OK.

546
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.680
David, I haven't dated a whole lot.

547
00:40:18.680 --> 00:40:20.720
So I'm going to ask this question.

548
00:40:20.720 --> 00:40:24.440
David, when, let's just say, level one, level two,

549
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.560
level three, level four, right?

550
00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:28.640
We talked about boundaries.

551
00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:32.880
And women want to feel safe with their guy.

552
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.800
It's an instinct.

553
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.880
So when it comes to, let's just say,

554
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.200
me getting serious with somebody, right?

555
00:40:42.200 --> 00:40:47.840
And it's an outward expression of you liking the person.

556
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.240
You will kiss.

557
00:40:49.240 --> 00:40:50.560
I mean, I will kiss.

558
00:40:50.560 --> 00:40:54.000
I will hold hands.

559
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.840
How do I know that she will be responsive and accept that?

560
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:01.760
Like, I'm not talking about making out

561
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.520
or all that kind of nonsense.

562
00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:07.200
I'm just like simple kiss, holding hands,

563
00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:10.080
hugs, non-sexual way.

564
00:41:10.080 --> 00:41:14.160
When is the right time I will know that she's open to that?

565
00:41:14.160 --> 00:41:17.880
Because I feel like I want to express that in the most

566
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.080
caring and respectful manner.

567
00:41:21.120 --> 00:41:24.320
If you're in a level two relationship,

568
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:27.480
that's probably not a line you want to cross.

569
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.880
Because the relationship isn't defined

570
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.840
as an exclusive relationship.

571
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:33.640
You're just dating.

572
00:41:33.640 --> 00:41:35.080
You're just getting to know people.

573
00:41:35.080 --> 00:41:37.040
It's very casual.

574
00:41:37.040 --> 00:41:39.760
In level three, where you're crossing the line to say,

575
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:43.120
hey, I want to intentionally get to know you.

576
00:41:43.120 --> 00:41:44.760
And I believe you want to do the same.

577
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:46.160
You're saying the same back to me.

578
00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:49.160
And we're going to exclusively see one another

579
00:41:49.160 --> 00:41:53.120
in a dating relationship, hopefully

580
00:41:53.120 --> 00:41:58.920
kind of discovering whether there's a romantic connection.

581
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.720
That's probably not at the beginning of level three.

582
00:42:01.720 --> 00:42:07.200
But somewhere in the midst of level three on to level four,

583
00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:11.320
that kind of behavior is appropriate, obviously

584
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.360
with respect and obviously with honor and so forth.

585
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:17.240
But you don't know.

586
00:42:17.240 --> 00:42:19.040
The simple answer to the question

587
00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:21.640
is you don't know whether it's going to be reciprocated.

588
00:42:21.640 --> 00:42:23.080
Because you don't know this person.

589
00:42:23.080 --> 00:42:25.840
You don't know how they would respond to you.

590
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:29.000
There are a lot of people that have never been kissed.

591
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.640
There are a lot of people that have done a lot of kissing.

592
00:42:31.640 --> 00:42:37.360
And unless you cross that bridge,

593
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.760
you don't know what it's like or how they're going to respond

594
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:42.800
until the moment.

595
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:52.080
Now, I'll tell you, Jackie and I, we

596
00:42:52.080 --> 00:42:59.960
had expressed our interest towards each other exclusively.

597
00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:03.200
And we were still getting to know each other.

598
00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:07.560
And the pace at which we were, our relationship

599
00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:10.240
was occurring from we met in April.

600
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:13.320
And by November of that same year, we were married.

601
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:18.400
So our relationship, in terms of just pace,

602
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:22.280
went fairly quickly.

603
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.720
But I will say, we never forgot the moment when

604
00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:28.000
we first had our first kiss.

605
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.000
And it wasn't necessarily at the altar.

606
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.080
I mean, it wasn't at the altar.

607
00:43:33.080 --> 00:43:39.280
But it was in level three prior to us going to level four.

608
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:44.720
And it was a very dynamic, romantic moment.

609
00:43:44.720 --> 00:43:52.160
And it wasn't necessarily in the most like we weren't dressed up.

610
00:43:52.160 --> 00:43:55.680
And it wasn't top of the Eiffel Tower or anything.

611
00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:59.520
It wasn't positioned romantically.

612
00:43:59.520 --> 00:44:03.680
But it was just very casual.

613
00:44:03.680 --> 00:44:08.320
It was in a, quite honestly, it was in a parking lot.

614
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:12.120
I had just been to the driving range.

615
00:44:12.120 --> 00:44:15.560
And I was showing her that I can golf, whatever.

616
00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:17.440
I was just sharing something with her

617
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.560
that was important to me.

618
00:44:19.560 --> 00:44:21.560
And that was a big thing.

619
00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:23.920
Because that's what men do.

620
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:25.480
We're like, hey, I can do this.

621
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.760
Let me show you how I can.

622
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:30.280
And that's kind of a manly thing.

623
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.440
And it was after that moment that we were just connecting.

624
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:39.240
And it was just, I took advantage of an opportunity

625
00:44:39.240 --> 00:44:41.440
where I felt like she was open to it.

626
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:43.120
And I kissed her.

627
00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:45.280
And she didn't reject me.

628
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.280
And it was a precarious moment.

629
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.800
And I navigated it pretty good.

630
00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:52.040
And it was a great kiss.

631
00:44:52.040 --> 00:44:53.240
And it was well-received.

632
00:44:53.240 --> 00:44:57.240
And from that moment, it was just like, wow.

633
00:44:57.240 --> 00:45:00.320
It was on.

634
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.120
And it was good.

635
00:45:02.120 --> 00:45:06.080
And so, you know, but sometimes that first kiss

636
00:45:06.080 --> 00:45:11.000
is not as good as it maybe will be in the future.

637
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:14.520
Not everybody is as skilled.

638
00:45:14.520 --> 00:45:18.280
And that's not like I was like, I'm Mr., you know,

639
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.920
Mr. Suave, Mr. have my game together, Mr. like,

640
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.960
you know, player, you know, like I know how to kiss

641
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:25.080
a woman type thing.

642
00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:28.240
I didn't have that history at all.

643
00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:30.800
It just was very organic with us.

644
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.600
So hopefully those interactions will be organic with you.

645
00:45:34.600 --> 00:45:36.120
And it didn't start with a kiss.

646
00:45:36.120 --> 00:45:39.320
Of course, it started with, you know, affection

647
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.840
and there's a hand and you rub, you know,

648
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:47.840
like you walk against somebody and you kind of, you know,

649
00:45:48.240 --> 00:45:51.760
playfully, you know, hit shoulders together

650
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:52.600
or something like that.

651
00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:57.600
You know, that all of that human and touching connection

652
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:02.080
that's innocent happens over a period of time.

653
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.560
Does that answer your question?

654
00:46:07.640 --> 00:46:08.480
Yes, David.

655
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:11.560
And one final thing before Brett I know raises his hand.

656
00:46:11.560 --> 00:46:13.440
If in doubt, right?

657
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.760
If in doubt and let's just say I'm with the lady

658
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:20.400
I am in level three, I want to express myself in that way.

659
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.720
Hey, is it better to just communicate?

660
00:46:22.720 --> 00:46:24.640
Hey, this is how I'm feeling.

661
00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:27.040
And I just wanted to make sure that you are ready.

662
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:28.880
I didn't want it to spring a surprise on you.

663
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.160
Is that a bad question to ask?

664
00:46:31.160 --> 00:46:32.000
Because everything-

665
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.800
Oh, I mean, it's kind of like,

666
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.840
it's kind of, it can go both ways.

667
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:39.920
If you lay it out like a textbook,

668
00:46:41.160 --> 00:46:43.720
it can be really kind of awkward.

669
00:46:43.720 --> 00:46:46.720
If you lay it out in a sort of like

670
00:46:46.720 --> 00:46:50.840
as romantic way as possible, like say you're in a moment

671
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.240
and you feel like, man, I really want to kiss this woman.

672
00:46:54.240 --> 00:46:56.520
And it's the end of the night and I'm dropping her off.

673
00:46:57.040 --> 00:46:59.960
And it's kind of like the traditional maybe moment

674
00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:01.640
when there might be a kiss, right?

675
00:47:01.640 --> 00:47:05.440
Like after a date and this isn't your first date, right?

676
00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:07.920
But you're like in that moment,

677
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:09.920
like, man, I really would like to kiss this woman.

678
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:12.080
This might be an opportunity.

679
00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:13.520
I might be able to give her a kiss

680
00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:16.960
and show her what I'm really like, how affectionate I am.

681
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:20.720
And you're standing there face to face

682
00:47:20.720 --> 00:47:24.840
and you're in this moment, but you're not really sure.

683
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:28.680
There's a way to like maybe even say like,

684
00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:29.800
hey, is this okay?

685
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:33.240
Or may I proceed or something?

686
00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:35.760
I mean, you don't have to be like super like

687
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.960
with a contractual like written response,

688
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:44.960
but there's sort of a formal romantic way

689
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.080
that can be done to where you can ask sort of ask permission

690
00:47:50.080 --> 00:47:52.920
or maybe emotionally ask for permission

691
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.120
to move forward in that moment.

692
00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:58.600
Does that make any sense to you?

693
00:47:58.600 --> 00:47:59.440
Yes, David.

694
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:00.280
Thank you so much.

695
00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:03.200
Brett, you had your hand up.

696
00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:05.680
Well, I was very similar.

697
00:48:05.680 --> 00:48:10.680
I'm in a, like I said, a three plus situation with a lady,

698
00:48:11.600 --> 00:48:16.600
but I have every intention of wanting to kiss her

699
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.960
but knowing her, she's been backed into corners before.

700
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:35.920
And what I was gonna say is I somehow have full intention

701
00:48:36.680 --> 00:48:41.400
of asking her permission before I do it

702
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:44.440
because I absolutely do not want to make her forced,

703
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:49.440
but I also don't want to be a robotic knucklehead either.

704
00:48:49.680 --> 00:48:51.600
Robotic knucklehead either.

705
00:48:51.600 --> 00:48:53.640
Yeah, exactly.

706
00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:54.800
No, but you know what?

707
00:48:56.720 --> 00:48:59.000
Every situation's different.

708
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.000
And I think some women,

709
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.520
especially women who have been preyed upon,

710
00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:09.440
and that's another huge, huge thing

711
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.240
that I think a lot of women,

712
00:49:12.720 --> 00:49:16.520
I would say even most women, even more than 50%

713
00:49:16.600 --> 00:49:21.400
at some point have been obviously inappropriately

714
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:24.440
advanced upon, preyed upon,

715
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:27.600
however you want to say to many varying degrees.

716
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:31.840
And I think it's always best

717
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.600
to be as respectful as possible.

718
00:49:34.600 --> 00:49:37.040
And I think that women,

719
00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:40.360
even though they might react weird sometimes to it,

720
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.840
I think women appreciate a man who would be respectful

721
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.960
with air on the side of being respectful

722
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:51.520
versus being super like, hey, let me take you in,

723
00:49:51.520 --> 00:49:54.440
let me sweep you off your feet and just bow you down

724
00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:55.920
and just lay a big one on you.

725
00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:00.560
I'm not saying that's inappropriate.

726
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:07.360
because sometimes that could be very appropriate, you know, in terms of, you know, the right kind

727
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:13.120
of people. Sorry, I've got little gnats here flying in my face here. But at the same time,

728
00:50:13.120 --> 00:50:19.920
I think erring on the side of respect, like, hey, I really feel like right now I want to kiss you.

729
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:26.240
And I think now would be a great time, you know, and just kind of like in that sort of like low

730
00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:31.440
voice sort of like soft way, but it has to be the right moment. You can't just be in, you know,

731
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:38.080
like in the McDonald's line, you know, has to, you know, so do everything you can to set up

732
00:50:38.080 --> 00:50:46.160
the moment or to be in a space to where that can be super awesome. You definitely want your first

733
00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:53.040
kiss to be awesome. Jackie and I still talk about it and tell the story all the time about it,

734
00:50:53.040 --> 00:50:59.920
because it was really that awesome. Now, there's some other things that maybe weren't so awesome

735
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:07.360
in our, you know, in those stages, like I didn't think that the me asking her to marry me was that

736
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:14.400
awesome of a I could have I could have worked a little bit harder in that moment, that proposal

737
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:20.240
ring sort of asking for the marriage moment there, that could have been a little bit more romantic,

738
00:51:20.240 --> 00:51:31.760
it could have been better orchestrated. So, right. I wanted to get into some, some, some

739
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:38.720
various more specifics. I don't want to just kind of curtsy around this guys. What, what are some

740
00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:49.040
real questions here? Connor, what do you got? Well, I got this thing about being concerned why

741
00:51:49.040 --> 00:51:54.080
I haven't been having sometimes. Well, I did see women, but I'm not having much luck. And it's

742
00:51:54.080 --> 00:51:59.280
probably because of where I'm gazing at, because a lot of Pete got someone told me that in youth

743
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:05.200
group in ministries with some guy men's discipleship that women don't like when a guy when a guy looks

744
00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:10.320
at her and probably like looking down because it turns them off. Because, well, here's my problem.

745
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:15.840
I was like, all right, I understand that that turns them off. But problem is, sometimes I walk

746
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:22.960
by and I see him and my eyes go. It's like when they were skinny, any like the word, hardly

747
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:29.040
anything at a pool or where there's or whatever skin tight attire they're wearing, or basically

748
00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:35.120
zoom. And like, because I'm afraid if I if I do, if I look and then I turn back because I know that

749
00:52:35.120 --> 00:52:41.600
I'm right, they're gonna gossip and think I'm some creep up to no good. And I but I keep confirming

750
00:52:41.680 --> 00:52:46.560
them is women. I know that I'm comfortable talking about saying, has there been a problem? They keep

751
00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:51.120
around me, they behave normally and deny it like nothing happens if I didn't do it at all,

752
00:52:51.120 --> 00:52:56.400
or I'm not doing I haven't done anything wrong. How do what am I going to do about what is something

753
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:06.560
I need to deal about? It happens. I mean, I don't really know. I don't really know what the answer

754
00:53:06.560 --> 00:53:16.000
to the question is, other than, you know, yeah, it's it's a situation in our world and our culture

755
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:24.640
and the place we live. Like, look, I don't make a habit of ogling women. But I do notice

756
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:30.240
things that are attractive in that way, you know, and there's plenty of it out there.

757
00:53:31.040 --> 00:53:35.520
And so I'm not going to ignore it like it's not there. But at the same time,

758
00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:43.920
the imaging that comes across your eyes and across across your, your mind, and your controlled

759
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:51.280
behavior is really important. It's something that like, look, especially if, if, if I don't do this

760
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:56.160
when my wife's not around, but I especially don't do it when my wife is around. Does that make sense?

761
00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:00.720
It's not like, oh, well, my wife's not around. It's okay. Not saying that at all. I'm just

762
00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:07.440
saying that I especially would never want a situation where my wife has is observing me

763
00:54:08.560 --> 00:54:15.440
ogling or just checking out or just like looking at another woman, very obviously,

764
00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:23.520
because that would be offensive to her. Right? I'm not saying it's not right for me

765
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.840
that to look at another woman. What I'm saying is, is that I'm very respectable and cognizant

766
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:36.480
of the fact, especially when my wife is around for her sake and for our sake, because I honor

767
00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:44.560
and respect her for her value and her worth. And like I said, it's not like, oh, well,

768
00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:49.760
I don't do this. I do whatever I want to when my wife's not around. No, I also have the same

769
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:59.120
standard and behavior when I'm just by myself, because I respect myself. I honor myself as well,

770
00:54:59.120 --> 00:54:59.840
because I'm like, I

771
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.840
I want to be the man that I say I am.

772
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:07.400
So I'm constantly trying to live up to that.

773
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:09.600
I'm an honorable man.

774
00:55:09.600 --> 00:55:10.600
I'm a worthy man.

775
00:55:10.600 --> 00:55:12.520
I'm a trustworthy man.

776
00:55:12.520 --> 00:55:15.920
And I do whatever I can to try to live up to that.

777
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:17.000
Am I perfect at that?

778
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:18.240
No.

779
00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:19.880
Do I do that all the time?

780
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:25.200
Do I find myself in situations

781
00:55:25.200 --> 00:55:27.680
where this is very difficult?

782
00:55:27.680 --> 00:55:28.520
Yeah.

783
00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:34.520
Like, whoa, I saw that and I can't unsee that, right?

784
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.680
So the question is, did I just cross the line?

785
00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:41.320
No, the question is, what am I going to do with that?

786
00:55:42.720 --> 00:55:45.800
So when you're encountered with an image,

787
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:47.960
because we're so visually wired, guys,

788
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:51.360
I mean, let's just face it, guys are very visual.

789
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:55.560
It's usually the first order of attraction

790
00:55:55.560 --> 00:55:57.240
is the visual part of it.

791
00:55:57.240 --> 00:55:59.680
Not saying it always is, but it usually is

792
00:55:59.680 --> 00:56:02.040
because this is the way we're wired.

793
00:56:02.040 --> 00:56:04.640
And God created us that way.

794
00:56:04.640 --> 00:56:07.200
But the thing about it is, is the question is,

795
00:56:07.200 --> 00:56:09.480
is what are you going to do with that image?

796
00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:13.480
Jesus said, when you look upon another woman

797
00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:14.600
with lust in your heart,

798
00:56:14.600 --> 00:56:18.400
you've already crossed the line of infidelity.

799
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:22.040
You've already crossed the line of adultery.

800
00:56:22.040 --> 00:56:22.880
What does that mean?

801
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.440
That just the look?

802
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:25.800
Is it like, oh my God,

803
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:27.880
I got to walk around with blinders on my eyes,

804
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:30.680
or I got to walk around with just covering my eyes

805
00:56:30.680 --> 00:56:32.640
so I don't see anything?

806
00:56:32.640 --> 00:56:36.840
No, it literally means, what are you going to,

807
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:40.560
like, I can look at a very attractive woman

808
00:56:40.560 --> 00:56:44.520
who is attractive to me and not lust after her

809
00:56:44.520 --> 00:56:49.360
because I've developed a sense of self-control in my life

810
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.920
to say, that's not for me, that's not mine.

811
00:56:52.120 --> 00:56:56.120
That's, I have a protocol that I go through

812
00:56:56.120 --> 00:57:00.280
that I say, this is not any of my business.

813
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:03.600
So I'm taking that image that came before me

814
00:57:03.600 --> 00:57:07.560
because it just assaulted me, right?

815
00:57:07.560 --> 00:57:09.280
And I'm taking that under subjection.

816
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.600
I'm like, okay, this is, I'm not entertaining this thought.

817
00:57:12.600 --> 00:57:15.280
I'm not going there with that because it's not appropriate.

818
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:16.520
It's not for me.

819
00:57:16.520 --> 00:57:20.480
I'm, you know, this is not who I am, right?

820
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:22.400
Yeah, not to mention-

821
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:26.040
That's the process of having a self-controlled

822
00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:31.040
or a, you know, a surrendered conscience or mind before.

823
00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:36.440
So that's, so I guess what I'm trying to say is,

824
00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:41.440
is your goal, if you're not doing that,

825
00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:46.120
your goal is to work towards that as an ideal.

826
00:57:46.120 --> 00:57:49.640
Your goal is to work towards an ideal,

827
00:57:49.640 --> 00:57:54.120
a pattern of behavior and response in those situations

828
00:57:54.120 --> 00:57:56.880
to be able to make sure that, hey, you're right.

829
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.480
I'm not gonna do that because, you know,

830
00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:03.240
I don't want people to think differently of me.

831
00:58:03.240 --> 00:58:06.160
I don't want people to think inappropriately of me

832
00:58:06.160 --> 00:58:07.680
and I want people to get to know me.

833
00:58:07.680 --> 00:58:12.680
I don't want a chance observation to undo the opportunity

834
00:58:13.680 --> 00:58:18.200
for someone to get to know me in a real and personal

835
00:58:18.200 --> 00:58:20.600
and, you know, direct way.

836
00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:22.200
Yeah, that's the thing.

837
00:58:22.200 --> 00:58:25.080
The only thing that's prevented me from avoiding this

838
00:58:25.080 --> 00:58:28.120
because the fear that if I look, like, for example,

839
00:58:28.120 --> 00:58:30.160
I go to the mall and I see a girl

840
00:58:30.160 --> 00:58:33.720
with any skin tight leggings or a bare belly exposed,

841
00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:37.000
my eye goes back to normal.

842
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:41.360
She, well, and I go, and in most cases,

843
00:58:41.360 --> 00:58:42.440
I don't know if they're gossiping,

844
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:44.600
saying, ew, that's a creepy middle-aged man,

845
00:58:44.600 --> 00:58:46.480
or they're just behaving around me.

846
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:49.960
They just behave and move on like I did nothing wrong.

847
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:52.360
But it's, I can't control that.

848
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:55.480
One thing I know is that they're not dressed like that

849
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:57.480
so I can gaze at them like an object.

850
00:58:57.480 --> 00:58:59.680
They're just dressed like that to look desired

851
00:58:59.680 --> 00:59:02.040
and for the most beautiful trend.

852
00:59:04.120 --> 00:59:05.680
I, you know what?

853
00:59:08.200 --> 00:59:10.880
I don't really know how to respond to that

854
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:13.320
other than just, it is what it is.

855
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:15.960
And unless it's a real situation

856
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.760
where you're actually trying to get to know somebody,

857
00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:22.720
then you're just gonna, it's all on you.

858
00:59:22.720 --> 00:59:24.160
It's all on you as far as, like,

859
00:59:24.160 --> 00:59:26.240
what it is you're gonna do with it.

860
00:59:26.240 --> 00:59:30.120
And that's all I can say about that.

861
00:59:30.120 --> 00:59:30.960
Paul, I want to get to you

862
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:32.680
because you've had your hand raised.

863
00:59:33.680 --> 00:59:38.680
Yeah, I'm, my question is kind of centered around expectations

864
00:59:39.200 --> 00:59:42.000
as you're in the, I'm in a dating relationship,

865
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.480
go through the levels, you know, obviously marriage-minded,

866
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:51.480
and the expectation around, you know, sexuality,

867
00:59:52.520 --> 00:59:54.120
sexual interactions.

868
00:59:54.120 --> 00:59:58.120
And I imagine it's, I mean, I was in a relationship

869
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.200
is engaged once briefly, it only lasted for a few weeks. And,

870
01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:08.040
you know, and we did go through kind of a premarital kind of

871
01:00:08.060 --> 01:00:11.920
counseling kind of thing. And sexual and sex, sex was

872
01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:17.040
definitely a topic. But I guess, I guess my question is like, you

873
01:00:17.040 --> 01:00:21.200
know, how, what do you recommend is the best way for a man to

874
01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:24.720
prepare for because relationships are different.

875
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.880
Some people have wounding around it. So probably what maybe

876
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:32.520
Jackie might be telling some of the ladies is, do you interact

877
01:00:32.520 --> 01:00:36.680
in a health, sexual way healthy. And you're telling us like, if

878
01:00:36.680 --> 01:00:41.040
I'm expecting this often, and or if I feel rejected, if she

879
01:00:41.040 --> 01:00:44.640
declines it, because she's tired one day, you know, anyway, just

880
01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:46.160
you kind of get the idea of my question.

881
01:00:46.160 --> 01:00:50.200
Yeah, no, I get it. Um, so here's the thing, you know, um,

882
01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:55.840
this is this is very difficult, because our culture, we're so

883
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:59.680
immersed in the world that we live in, we can't get out of it,

884
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.720
you know, and so our culture puts everything backwards. I

885
01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:08.120
mean, everything, they literally, especially in this

886
01:01:08.120 --> 01:01:10.200
area, they put like sex first, and that, you know, it's just

887
01:01:10.200 --> 01:01:13.880
like, it's, it's the very first thing. And the problem with that

888
01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:17.920
is, is that I feel like the intention, in terms of intimacy

889
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:22.600
and the and the progressing of going from knowing somebody to

890
01:01:22.600 --> 01:01:26.000
full blown intimacy in the marriage relationship, is

891
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:30.320
supposed to be number one, an exploration. And especially in

892
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:34.720
the area of sex and intimacy, and you know, nakedness to naked

893
01:01:34.720 --> 01:01:39.600
people together, that is supposed to be explored in the

894
01:01:39.600 --> 01:01:46.160
context of marriage. And the thing that people modern people

895
01:01:46.160 --> 01:01:49.720
have a problem with that is, is they're like, Well, but what if

896
01:01:49.720 --> 01:01:52.400
I don't like that? But what if I don't, you know, find them a

897
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:55.320
attractive after that? Well, what if, what if, what if, what

898
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.280
if, what if I want to know all the things before I get into

899
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:02.240
this contract and get to this covenant? And I'm like, bro,

900
01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:09.400
sorry, that's not the way it works. You know, there's, you

901
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:14.040
know, there's enough level of attraction should be there

902
01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:17.920
should be enough level of chemistry should be when you're

903
01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:26.080
getting to know someone, that your, your inquiry begins to be

904
01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:32.680
answered after the fact. And that's the great risk of

905
01:02:32.720 --> 01:02:38.600
intimate relationship. It's also the great reward of intimate

906
01:02:38.600 --> 01:02:46.520
relationship. So it's like, you know, they say, what is it they

907
01:02:46.520 --> 01:02:49.680
say about the milk and the cow, you can't taste the milk unless

908
01:02:49.680 --> 01:02:51.920
you buy the cow. I mean, it's just like, you got to buy the

909
01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:56.720
cow first. Well, I know that sounds funny and weird. But I'm

910
01:02:56.720 --> 01:02:59.960
just trying to simplify it in a sense that's like, you know, you

911
01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:04.960
can't get the cart before the horse. And you can have like you

912
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:09.640
can have a level of discussion and understanding, especially

913
01:03:09.640 --> 01:03:13.320
with someone's beat past and their and their previous

914
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:17.920
relationships in an honorable way. So yes, I mean, you can

915
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:22.000
come to a certain level of understanding, like maybe, but

916
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:27.520
it usually is predicated on how much the other person is willing

917
01:03:27.520 --> 01:03:32.000
to share prior to you coming into full blown marriage

918
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.560
relationship. So it is definitely important to have the

919
01:03:35.560 --> 01:03:42.080
discussion in an honorable way. You know, in a way that is like,

920
01:03:43.040 --> 01:03:47.600
I don't know all the answers to how we are going to navigate

921
01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:52.000
this. But I appreciate you sharing me sharing with me, you

922
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:55.520
know, your past, and I'm going to try my best to try to

923
01:03:55.520 --> 01:03:59.080
negotiate that and navigate that as we go forward in our

924
01:03:59.080 --> 01:04:04.640
relationship. But the areas of your sexuality and your sexual

925
01:04:05.040 --> 01:04:09.680
preferences and your your the ways that you're intimate, those

926
01:04:09.680 --> 01:04:13.280
are going to be explored between you and that person

927
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:18.720
after marriage. And it is going to be unique to you, the way you

928
01:04:18.720 --> 01:04:23.600
and that other person connect sexually, is to be explored and

929
01:04:23.600 --> 01:04:31.720
is supposed to be uncovered and revealed through the process, or

930
01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:38.840
through the relationship of marriage. So did I draw enough

931
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:40.280
of a line there for you?

932
01:04:44.080 --> 01:04:44.800
Yes.

933
01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:49.960
Because, yeah, I mean, depth is, is it appropriate to have a

934
01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:54.840
discussion in this area prior to marriage? Absolutely. As as

935
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:58.480
comfortable as each of you are willing and wanting and ready to

936
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:00.080
share this area.

937
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.000
Yeah.

938
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:06.680
And so it becomes a very precarious, it can be a very precarious conversation because

939
01:05:06.680 --> 01:05:10.080
you don't want to push somebody to know like, well, I've got to know this and I've got to

940
01:05:10.080 --> 01:05:12.520
know that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

941
01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:14.800
That is not really a discussion.

942
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:16.880
That's more of a demand.

943
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:21.360
So it requires true discussion, heart to heart.

944
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:23.280
Hypotheticals are difficult at times.

945
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:32.200
I guess I just know, I've heard of guys that enter a marriage and it's kind of sexless,

946
01:05:32.200 --> 01:05:33.200
you know what I mean?

947
01:05:33.200 --> 01:05:36.240
And it's like, and I know you can't predict that, right?

948
01:05:36.240 --> 01:05:43.080
I mean, it's just, I guess that's part of it and dealing with it and-

949
01:05:43.080 --> 01:05:46.200
Well I will say this, I will say this.

950
01:05:46.200 --> 01:05:54.680
There are like, we take pre-married individuals, individuals who have, we've been doing this

951
01:05:54.680 --> 01:05:55.680
for some time.

952
01:05:55.680 --> 01:05:58.680
We've had individuals that said, hey, we're engaged now.

953
01:05:58.680 --> 01:06:03.640
And we would like some pre-marital counseling, pre-marital discussion.

954
01:06:03.640 --> 01:06:09.400
And so we actually take individuals in our program through SIMBAS, which is Save Your

955
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:12.440
Marriage Before It Starts, and a process.

956
01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:18.600
And part of that process is to have a discussion to set some expectations in a very nominal

957
01:06:18.600 --> 01:06:19.600
way.

958
01:06:19.600 --> 01:06:25.520
To like, hey, how would you, what would you expect in terms of sexual interactions so

959
01:06:25.520 --> 01:06:27.960
many times per week, per month, whatever?

960
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:28.960
What would you do?

961
01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:33.360
And each, the man and the woman, they both take the assessment separately and then they

962
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:40.160
start to, then the report comes together and it shows a comparison and it gives an opportunity

963
01:06:40.200 --> 01:06:48.520
for couples to have a look at some of the areas that, in which they are extremely compatible,

964
01:06:48.520 --> 01:06:56.120
may have some incompatibility, may have some, you know, or yellow flags, red flags, that

965
01:06:56.120 --> 01:06:57.120
kind of stuff.

966
01:06:57.120 --> 01:07:01.960
And it doesn't, it's not a grading system to say, oh, you're not compatible to be married.

967
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:07.000
But what it is, it's a system by which it informs the couple to say, hey, these are

968
01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:12.520
some areas you're going to have to really want to, you know, care for in your relationship

969
01:07:12.520 --> 01:07:14.720
going into marriage.

970
01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:19.280
And some people, when they take this assessment, they decide to not be married.

971
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:21.040
And that's okay too.

972
01:07:21.040 --> 01:07:25.040
But to assess that in a very formalized way, there's ways to do it.

973
01:07:25.040 --> 01:07:26.040
We do it.

974
01:07:26.040 --> 01:07:27.560
And yes, it is appropriate.

975
01:07:27.560 --> 01:07:28.560
Awesome.

976
01:07:28.560 --> 01:07:30.560
Thank you.

977
01:07:30.560 --> 01:07:31.560
Yeah.

978
01:07:31.560 --> 01:07:38.560
Guys, we're up or just past the hour now here.

979
01:07:38.560 --> 01:07:44.280
So I want to give some time, if you have some real questions, some inquiries, heard from

980
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:48.200
a lot of you, but a couple of you have not really said very much and that's okay if you

981
01:07:48.200 --> 01:07:49.200
don't have anything.

982
01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:54.240
But I'd certainly love to hear from some of the people that haven't said anything yet,

983
01:07:54.240 --> 01:08:00.240
at least comments, questions, inquiries, concerns.

984
01:08:00.240 --> 01:08:05.160
I did some questions, but this is all about you giving me your questions.

985
01:08:05.160 --> 01:08:06.160
That's good.

986
01:08:06.160 --> 01:08:11.840
You gave me the answer about in terms of gazing at women, no matter what attire they're wearing.

987
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:17.160
But I also have to deal with some Christians who are talking about how we're depraved and

988
01:08:17.160 --> 01:08:18.160
anything.

989
01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:23.200
Well, I looked at the culture in New York and they just repealed on legalizing adultery,

990
01:08:23.200 --> 01:08:27.279
saying it's not the government's business of two consenting adults.

991
01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:32.439
Well, and some Christians respond, oh, they're taking God's law of our government.

992
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:37.279
Well, no, I think it's just, we got to remember, we just find a common ground where we can

993
01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:42.439
agree with the secular government that we want laws to protect people.

994
01:08:42.439 --> 01:08:47.479
In terms of adultery, well, we do it because it's part of the Ten Commandments.

995
01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:52.359
In the culture, well, they don't find nothing wrong with two consenting adults in the bedroom

996
01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:54.160
unless it's their partner.

997
01:08:54.160 --> 01:08:58.399
So I don't think it's the government is trying to, the culture is getting depraved.

998
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:02.680
They just want to know about, they just want laws to protect people.

999
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:08.640
So if we kept adultery legal, it would be illegal, they'll create complications.

1000
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:13.279
Basically to protect you from destroying others as well as ourselves.

1001
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:16.920
And less about wanting God's law in a Christian mandate, because they're not going to listen

1002
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:17.920
to that.

1003
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:19.279
I understand.

1004
01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:22.920
Guys, questions on this area.

1005
01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:25.279
I want to get to your questions if you have them.

1006
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:28.760
David, may I say something?

1007
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:29.760
Yeah.

1008
01:09:29.760 --> 01:09:35.800
And I'll say this and let me ask you a question.

1009
01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:37.840
There's no way you're going to cover all of them.

1010
01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:43.760
Can you go ahead and provide some method for guys to send questions that you can answer

1011
01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:46.040
in some kind of group chat?

1012
01:09:46.040 --> 01:09:49.560
Because this thing could easily, and I think it would be helpful if it did, but it could

1013
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:51.960
easily go on for three, four, five, six hours.

1014
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:52.960
There's no way.

1015
01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:53.960
Oh, sure.

1016
01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:54.960
It's not pragmatic.

1017
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:56.680
So can you do that?

1018
01:09:56.680 --> 01:09:58.480
And now you can answer that question.

1019
01:09:58.480 --> 01:10:00.080
Yeah, absolutely.

1020
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:24.000
Um, I mean, I can provide we do have a men's only chat to technically one that does exist on the general chat for the men's monthly group. Um, and Jacqueline is the only female that's in there, just so you know, I believe, I believe that's true. Um, and so you can post in there if you're comfortable.

1021
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:41.000
You can post in the men's monthly group if you're comfortable with that just generally, and we'll try to respond to that and get to that. Um, I think that's probably the best way to either reach us or me specifically.

1022
01:10:41.000 --> 01:11:06.000
Um, you can direct message me I mean I'm in the, I, I can't promise you that there's going to be that I'm going to have time to address a lot of inquiries from a lot of different people but there's only 11 people 12 people on this broadcast so that's certainly something I can handle.

1023
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:12.000
Um, so if you want to direct message me in that way that's fine too.

1024
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:21.000
Did you have a comment or question that's appropriate for this moment James.

1025
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:25.000
Sure.

1026
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:35.000
Go with to make sure there was an avenue for guys that are absolutely not going to get to answer their quest, ask their question like to do so.

1027
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:38.000
Oh yeah, absolutely.

1028
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.000
Yeah.

1029
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:51.000
There's a general chat in the 18 this it's called in the 1822 men's monthly group when you're in there, there is a messenger chat called the general chat.

1030
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:56.000
So, you can ask your, ask your specific question there.

1031
01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:03.000
If that's not specific or private enough, then you can direct message me on Facebook.

1032
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:09.000
Very good. The Indian gentleman was talking I interrupted him I'm sorry.

1033
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:14.000
Hey David, um, oral sex. Right.

1034
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:18.000
David, I don't have any.

1035
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:22.000
It's repugnant to me, both ways. Right.

1036
01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:30.000
And I've heard that if you indulge in oral sex too much, it causes cancer, predominantly throat cancer.

1037
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:37.000
How do you deal with this particular subject in a marriage, where one of like I don't want to do it.

1038
01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:39.000
And the fact that there is.

1039
01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:46.000
I don't know how documented is documented it is, but does it lead to or do throat cancer.

1040
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:53.000
I have no idea I do not know the answer to that question, specific to the medical Jason.

1041
01:12:53.000 --> 01:13:08.000
Yeah, the answer is related to HPV human papillomavirus. Oh, the problem HPV is there's technically no tests for it.

1042
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:13.000
There's not a way to test it. Yeah, it's not a way to test it in women.

1043
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:19.000
HPV infection is typically detected by a abnormal pap smear.

1044
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:23.000
But you have to get to that stage.

1045
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:27.000
HPV is almost like herpes simplex one.

1046
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:34.000
It's something estimated that, like, ninety five percent of sexually active adults.

1047
01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:39.000
And even there's versions of HPV to cause warts and other things like that.

1048
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:47.000
Not all versions cause warts. But the point is variations of HPV are out there.

1049
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:51.000
And it's like ninety five to ninety eight percent of adults have it.

1050
01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:03.000
The problem is, yes, if you have this act with someone who has a sexual version of HPV.

1051
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:08.000
And right. It can. That's what's causing the throat cancer problem.

1052
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:18.000
Yeah, interesting. No, I mean, that's very good. I love that insight, Jason, because, you know, it's always interesting to know.

1053
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:24.000
Like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm not a medical expert in any shape, form or fashion.

1054
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:31.000
I take all of my medical advice from my wife who, you know, anyway, that's just a joke.

1055
01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:36.000
But, um. That's.

1056
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:41.000
I can see I can appreciate the fact that there's actually a real answer to that, which that's.

1057
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:47.000
Well, I hadn't didn't know that we were going to get that kind of answer on this call, which is really, really great.

1058
01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:57.000
Well, it's essentially the same the same cancer or the HPV that causes cervical cancer is the same HPV that's causing throat cancer.

1059
01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:00.000
And in not OK, not all.

1060
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.640
all throat cancers, obviously, but yes, for those who's,

1061
01:15:04.480 --> 01:15:08.200
and again, the medical literature on this is a little vague

1062
01:15:08.200 --> 01:15:12.060
because just like with cervical cancer and HPV,

1063
01:15:13.040 --> 01:15:15.160
this is something that takes place

1064
01:15:15.160 --> 01:15:17.920
over the course of decades.

1065
01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:18.760
Yeah.

1066
01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:21.920
So you could be infected in your 30s, let's say,

1067
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:24.600
it may never show up till your late 70s.

1068
01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:27.040
And it's hard to make that the one correlation

1069
01:15:27.040 --> 01:15:29.840
that you did this and it caused that.

1070
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:33.400
So to also answer the question,

1071
01:15:33.400 --> 01:15:38.400
the one-to-one correlation is difficult to ascertain,

1072
01:15:39.280 --> 01:15:43.380
but essentially, yes, there's a risk,

1073
01:15:43.380 --> 01:15:45.440
just like with cervical cancer and HPV,

1074
01:15:45.440 --> 01:15:48.280
if HPV is in your throat,

1075
01:15:48.280 --> 01:15:51.320
it can cause cancer there as well.

1076
01:15:51.320 --> 01:15:52.160
Yeah.

1077
01:15:52.160 --> 01:15:54.320
No, and I appreciate that insight

1078
01:15:54.320 --> 01:15:57.160
because I mean, I know that you come from

1079
01:15:57.160 --> 01:15:59.200
a wealth of knowledge and expertise

1080
01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:00.800
that you would know that.

1081
01:16:02.480 --> 01:16:06.920
My answer to Nitin's original question is,

1082
01:16:08.480 --> 01:16:13.120
those are things, this is what I was saying earlier,

1083
01:16:13.120 --> 01:16:17.600
where people want a specific rule

1084
01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:19.600
that says you can do this or can't do that

1085
01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:21.100
and for this reason, whatever.

1086
01:16:23.480 --> 01:16:25.520
And unfortunately, in scripture,

1087
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:26.920
it doesn't come down and say,

1088
01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:28.720
there's no verse in the Bible that says,

1089
01:16:28.720 --> 01:16:31.440
you shall do this, you shall not do this and so forth,

1090
01:16:31.440 --> 01:16:34.800
specific to like this kind of question.

1091
01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:38.520
And I think it's because I think

1092
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:40.400
there's common sense around it.

1093
01:16:40.400 --> 01:16:42.280
I think there's preference around it.

1094
01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:46.320
Would I ever, first of all,

1095
01:16:46.320 --> 01:16:49.520
I don't want to know somebody's sexual activity

1096
01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:51.600
enough to know whether they're a person

1097
01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:53.800
that engages in oral sex or not

1098
01:16:53.800 --> 01:16:54.960
and how they feel about it.

1099
01:16:54.960 --> 01:16:59.920
Because quite frankly, it's none of my business, right?

1100
01:16:59.920 --> 01:17:00.760
It just isn't.

1101
01:17:03.080 --> 01:17:06.240
But if you're asking me, if you're asking

1102
01:17:06.240 --> 01:17:08.600
in a sense of like, is it appropriate?

1103
01:17:08.600 --> 01:17:12.000
I think relationally, these are the kinds of things

1104
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:15.180
that are between the man and the woman.

1105
01:17:16.400 --> 01:17:19.760
Your exploration of your sexual preferences

1106
01:17:19.760 --> 01:17:24.760
to be able to work with one another

1107
01:17:25.440 --> 01:17:28.360
has to be you two coming together

1108
01:17:28.360 --> 01:17:30.760
and being comfortable saying,

1109
01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:32.480
this is what I like, what I don't like,

1110
01:17:32.480 --> 01:17:34.200
and both have to be on board with it.

1111
01:17:34.200 --> 01:17:37.020
And that is the part of the sexual exploration.

1112
01:17:38.360 --> 01:17:40.880
I think there are probably lines

1113
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:48.520
where honor and dishonor are very important.

1114
01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:51.320
I think there are probably things

1115
01:17:51.320 --> 01:17:52.800
that people do in their youth

1116
01:17:53.800 --> 01:17:56.320
that they don't do anymore in their elder age

1117
01:17:56.320 --> 01:17:59.260
because they finally matured beyond that.

1118
01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:04.920
And again, it's a discussion that a man and a woman

1119
01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:06.920
in a marriage context would have to have

1120
01:18:06.920 --> 01:18:10.080
to say, I like that, I don't like this,

1121
01:18:10.080 --> 01:18:12.260
I prefer this or that, whatever.

1122
01:18:12.260 --> 01:18:14.240
That's part of the, I feel,

1123
01:18:14.240 --> 01:18:17.680
is part of the exploration, sexual exploration process.

1124
01:18:18.680 --> 01:18:23.680
There are things that Jackie and I don't participate in

1125
01:18:24.080 --> 01:18:28.280
that we think are not as much immoral

1126
01:18:28.280 --> 01:18:31.040
as much as they are just inappropriate,

1127
01:18:31.040 --> 01:18:35.080
certainly scientifically and medically unsafe, not good.

1128
01:18:38.200 --> 01:18:42.840
But again, where you draw that line,

1129
01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:44.600
if it's a thing that's for you,

1130
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.580
I just find it completely grotesque,

1131
01:18:48.920 --> 01:18:50.640
there's nothing wrong with that.

1132
01:18:50.640 --> 01:18:52.800
If you have to have a medical reason

1133
01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:56.640
to support what you're saying, go for it, I guess.

1134
01:18:56.640 --> 01:18:59.520
But I don't even think you need a medical reason to say,

1135
01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:01.120
I'm not comfortable with that.

1136
01:19:01.120 --> 01:19:04.240
That, I feel, is inappropriate

1137
01:19:04.240 --> 01:19:08.120
or I feel is harmful or dishonoring in this way

1138
01:19:09.100 --> 01:19:10.040
for this reason.

1139
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:15.120
You know, I think women will appreciate men

1140
01:19:15.120 --> 01:19:18.720
who have standards in a way that says,

1141
01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:22.120
you know, I think that's dishonorable.

1142
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.680
You know, I think that's not something

1143
01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:30.640
that shows the way that I wanna express my love

1144
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:34.460
and my connection and my intimacy with you.

1145
01:19:35.420 --> 01:19:39.480
There's a wide range of emotions and human behavior

1146
01:19:39.480 --> 01:19:44.200
in the area of sexuality that, again,

1147
01:19:44.200 --> 01:19:47.680
should be and has to be discussed and explored

1148
01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:49.980
and should be,

1149
01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:53.360
should be,

1150
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:57.920
not approved, but I mean like appropriate

1151
01:19:57.920 --> 01:19:59.420
for that particular couple.

1152
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:06.160
In other words, some people find oral sex to be very pleasurable, both the man and the

1153
01:20:06.160 --> 01:20:08.060
woman, and they love it.

1154
01:20:08.060 --> 01:20:14.140
And they're happily married, sexually satisfied couples who are married.

1155
01:20:14.140 --> 01:20:16.220
And I don't want to know that.

1156
01:20:16.220 --> 01:20:21.220
And neither should anybody else, because that's between that married couple.

1157
01:20:21.220 --> 01:20:25.940
And then there are other people that don't engage in oral sex, and they are completely

1158
01:20:25.940 --> 01:20:30.860
happy, satisfied, sexually satisfied, happy married couples.

1159
01:20:30.860 --> 01:20:37.300
And they're just as married and just as satisfied and just as saved as the rest of them.

1160
01:20:37.300 --> 01:20:38.300
You know?

1161
01:20:38.300 --> 01:20:40.140
So I think it could go both ways.

1162
01:20:40.140 --> 01:20:42.500
I don't think there's a hard and fast rule.

1163
01:20:42.500 --> 01:20:47.180
But I think it always comes down to being in agreement and being honorable in your marriage

1164
01:20:47.180 --> 01:20:51.020
covenant.

1165
01:20:51.020 --> 01:20:56.860
Because sexuality, let me say this, this is really important.

1166
01:20:56.860 --> 01:21:05.100
Sexual contact and intimacy between a man and a wife, it's not about you getting what

1167
01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:09.140
you want or they getting what they want.

1168
01:21:09.140 --> 01:21:19.220
The reciprocation of sexual intimacy is about giving and the other person receiving both

1169
01:21:19.220 --> 01:21:26.940
ways and being satisfied, but continually trying to, like, if you work towards satisfying

1170
01:21:26.940 --> 01:21:36.700
your partner sexually, and like, that is your desire, not about what it is that you want

1171
01:21:36.700 --> 01:21:42.020
to get out of it, you are now heading on the right path, you're heading in the right direction

1172
01:21:42.020 --> 01:21:45.860
as far as like, what are you, what are you in this for?

1173
01:21:46.500 --> 01:21:48.500
Does that make sense?

1174
01:21:48.500 --> 01:21:51.540
Hopefully, that makes sense.

1175
01:21:51.540 --> 01:21:54.540
Thank you so much.

1176
01:21:54.540 --> 01:21:55.540
Yeah.

1177
01:22:00.540 --> 01:22:02.540
Anybody else?

1178
01:22:06.540 --> 01:22:08.540
You've almost heard from everybody here.

1179
01:22:09.220 --> 01:22:18.220
I want to offer up some encouragement since that came up.

1180
01:22:18.220 --> 01:22:21.700
Just real quick, I will take 30 seconds.

1181
01:22:21.700 --> 01:22:27.180
The whole porn thing seems to be so prevalent in our society, I really think it hasn't wrecked

1182
01:22:27.180 --> 01:22:30.580
our society, but certainly handicapped us.

1183
01:22:30.580 --> 01:22:34.700
And as a man who dealt with it on and off for years, I haven't seen it now at this point

1184
01:22:34.700 --> 01:22:35.700
since last September.

1185
01:22:35.860 --> 01:22:40.580
And all it took was listening to Matt Walsh saying, you know, be a man, you can do it,

1186
01:22:40.580 --> 01:22:42.700
just stop doing it.

1187
01:22:42.700 --> 01:22:49.700
And it has improved my entire life, it has improved the way I think, it has improved

1188
01:22:49.700 --> 01:22:56.140
my effectiveness in work, and I'm no superhero by any means, but I have noticed a huge difference

1189
01:22:56.140 --> 01:23:00.820
in my focus, in my clarity, and in the way I deal with people.

1190
01:23:00.940 --> 01:23:04.940
So, any man listening to this, because it's uncomfortable to talk about these things,

1191
01:23:04.940 --> 01:23:11.140
it really is, if you, there's programs, there's apps, there's all sorts of things out there

1192
01:23:11.140 --> 01:23:14.660
that can help you, but if you can just take the bull by the horns and just say, I'm done

1193
01:23:14.660 --> 01:23:17.940
doing this, and you just stop doing it, and every time the thought comes up, just go do

1194
01:23:17.940 --> 01:23:18.940
something else.

1195
01:23:18.940 --> 01:23:25.500
If you occupy your mind, the devil can't have his workshop.

1196
01:23:25.500 --> 01:23:29.100
No truer words have ever been spoken on that.

1197
01:23:29.100 --> 01:23:35.380
Just like that, James, I appreciate you saying that, that it's so true, it's a problem of

1198
01:23:35.380 --> 01:23:45.120
epidemic proportions, nearly every man, especially men, but nearly every sector of our society

1199
01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:56.340
has been affected by this cancer, and it is not just diabolical, immoral, destitute, depraved,

1200
01:23:56.340 --> 01:24:01.260
but it literally is enslavement.

1201
01:24:01.260 --> 01:24:06.180
I've never wanted to go under the hood and try to figure out more about the porn industry

1202
01:24:06.180 --> 01:24:12.960
so that I could be that much more appalled by it, because I don't feel like that's necessary,

1203
01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:13.960
but I know enough about it.

1204
01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:17.140
I think movies like Sound of Freedom have drawn attention to a lot of that, there's

1205
01:24:17.140 --> 01:24:24.220
a lot of people out there trying to draw attention to this part of our society, but yeah, it's

1206
01:24:24.220 --> 01:24:25.220
a real problem.

1207
01:24:25.220 --> 01:24:26.500
It's definitely a strategy of the enemy.

1208
01:24:26.500 --> 01:24:30.820
It's not just something that's like, oh, hey, it exists, it's no big deal.

1209
01:24:30.820 --> 01:24:36.820
That's exactly what the enemy wants you to perceive in it, like, it's no big deal, whatever,

1210
01:24:36.820 --> 01:24:40.140
it's just men being men, boys will be boys, that kind of thing.

1211
01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:48.740
No, I love the invitation of, hey, what's it mean to be a real man?

1212
01:24:48.740 --> 01:24:57.900
There is psychological and physiological and sociological studies that say that pornography

1213
01:24:57.900 --> 01:25:00.020
does not, it's the law.

1214
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:03.280
of diminishing returns throughout the whole thing.

1215
01:25:03.280 --> 01:25:05.240
Like, you could go there with that

1216
01:25:05.240 --> 01:25:06.720
if you wanted to do that.

1217
01:25:06.720 --> 01:25:08.480
But at the same time, the invitation

1218
01:25:08.480 --> 01:25:13.480
just to stand up and be a man, that's powerful.

1219
01:25:13.480 --> 01:25:16.240
That's powerful to be able to say, look,

1220
01:25:16.240 --> 01:25:18.000
just be a man about it.

1221
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:19.480
Be a real man.

1222
01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:21.640
Be a man of your word.

1223
01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:26.200
Be a man that what you, who you are,

1224
01:25:26.200 --> 01:25:31.440
and what you do in private is important.

1225
01:25:31.440 --> 01:25:35.920
It's not, doesn't go unobserved and unheard.

1226
01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:38.240
It doesn't go unaffected.

1227
01:25:38.240 --> 01:25:40.680
And I love the fact that James' personal testimony

1228
01:25:40.680 --> 01:25:42.600
is to say, since I've stopped doing that,

1229
01:25:42.600 --> 01:25:46.520
and I've stopped basically rising above that,

1230
01:25:46.520 --> 01:25:47.440
I'm more productive.

1231
01:25:47.440 --> 01:25:48.280
I'm more focused.

1232
01:25:48.280 --> 01:25:49.760
I'm more clear.

1233
01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:51.800
I'm doing that with my physical health right now.

1234
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:55.240
I'm actually seeing, for the first time in my life,

1235
01:25:55.240 --> 01:25:59.480
through exercise, I'm actually seeing results in my body.

1236
01:25:59.480 --> 01:26:00.680
I've got a long way to go,

1237
01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:02.160
and there's a lot of other things

1238
01:26:02.160 --> 01:26:05.400
that I want to get under that self-control,

1239
01:26:05.400 --> 01:26:07.280
especially my appetite.

1240
01:26:07.280 --> 01:26:09.640
But I'm seeing results, and I'm like,

1241
01:26:09.640 --> 01:26:13.840
oh, there's a little bit of hope and shred of evidence

1242
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:15.560
that I can actually do this.

1243
01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:20.560
I can actually achieve the goal that I want to achieve,

1244
01:26:21.080 --> 01:26:23.760
which is, you know, I want to be fit.

1245
01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:27.560
I want to not be addicted to sugar.

1246
01:26:27.560 --> 01:26:29.120
I don't want to be addicted to things

1247
01:26:29.120 --> 01:26:30.240
that are controlling me.

1248
01:26:30.240 --> 01:26:31.240
I want to have focus.

1249
01:26:31.240 --> 01:26:33.560
I want to have energy and strength.

1250
01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:35.720
And the same thing is true about pornography.

1251
01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:39.920
Pornography is something that whittles away at you,

1252
01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:41.400
destroys you.

1253
01:26:41.400 --> 01:26:45.040
The Bible says that sexual sin is the only type of sin

1254
01:26:45.040 --> 01:26:47.280
that actually you sin against yourself.

1255
01:26:48.440 --> 01:26:49.520
Think about that for a moment.

1256
01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:51.360
That's like a whole nother deep discussion

1257
01:26:51.360 --> 01:26:53.960
we could have in this way.

1258
01:26:53.960 --> 01:26:57.960
But usually in sin, we sin against another person.

1259
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:00.480
We sin against one another because of our actions,

1260
01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:02.960
our behavior, our words, our deeds.

1261
01:27:02.960 --> 01:27:05.920
But in sexuality, the words talks about,

1262
01:27:05.920 --> 01:27:07.600
this is one of those types of sin

1263
01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:10.480
where you actually sin against yourself.

1264
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:17.760
And so it's destructive to the very person that you are,

1265
01:27:17.760 --> 01:27:20.880
and you're hurting, you do hurt other people.

1266
01:27:21.400 --> 01:27:22.720
What I'm saying is that most importantly though,

1267
01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:25.840
you hurt yourself in this area.

1268
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:29.600
And so if you're going to take God's command

1269
01:27:29.600 --> 01:27:32.960
to love yourself as you love others,

1270
01:27:33.960 --> 01:27:35.960
it's important to love yourself.

1271
01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:36.880
It is biblical.

1272
01:27:36.880 --> 01:27:40.200
It is kingdom to love yourself,

1273
01:27:41.440 --> 01:27:44.080
not just to take care of the temple that God's given you,

1274
01:27:44.080 --> 01:27:49.080
but to love, truly love and appreciate

1275
01:27:49.800 --> 01:27:52.280
and have affection for yourself

1276
01:27:52.280 --> 01:27:54.600
because of who you are as a son of God,

1277
01:27:54.600 --> 01:27:56.880
as a creation of the most high.

1278
01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:59.720
And all of that that entails going with that.

1279
01:27:59.720 --> 01:28:03.840
And part of that is that, how do you treat yourself?

1280
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.840
Don't sin against yourself through sexual immorality,

1281
01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:10.680
but love yourself and abstain from those things

1282
01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:15.200
because in doing so, it brings about tremendous reward.

1283
01:28:15.200 --> 01:28:18.240
It brings about tremendous progress.

1284
01:28:18.640 --> 01:28:22.240
There's something that is said about a man

1285
01:28:22.240 --> 01:28:25.960
who will be able to exercise self-control.

1286
01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:28.880
There are certain habits and certain behavior

1287
01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:30.200
and certain appetites.

1288
01:28:30.200 --> 01:28:32.400
If you could control those,

1289
01:28:32.400 --> 01:28:37.400
you will have tremendous success in the rest of your life

1290
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:39.880
and all the other areas of your life.

1291
01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:43.680
And it's proven to be true over and over and over again.

1292
01:28:43.680 --> 01:28:45.400
And I think that's what James is alluding to

1293
01:28:45.400 --> 01:28:47.600
is it's like, look, it didn't just help me

1294
01:28:47.960 --> 01:28:51.080
not be a shameful about what I was doing.

1295
01:28:51.080 --> 01:28:53.840
It actually helped me in so many other areas

1296
01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:58.840
of productivity, thought, focus, accomplishment, achievement.

1297
01:28:59.160 --> 01:29:02.360
If you wanna be something, if you wanna be someone,

1298
01:29:02.360 --> 01:29:04.720
and if you want to have success,

1299
01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:07.520
having an exercising self-control

1300
01:29:07.520 --> 01:29:12.520
in all of these areas is paramount, super important.

1301
01:29:14.880 --> 01:29:16.720
I'm gonna end it there guys tonight.

1302
01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:22.720
Because it's 8.30 and we went pretty good.

1303
01:29:22.960 --> 01:29:24.400
If you do have questions,

1304
01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:27.200
I appreciate James kind of bringing that up

1305
01:29:27.200 --> 01:29:28.920
about where can we send stuff.

1306
01:29:28.920 --> 01:29:31.960
If you have comments, concerns, questions,

1307
01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:33.280
put it in the general chat

1308
01:29:33.280 --> 01:29:36.360
of the Men's Monthly Facebook group.

1309
01:29:38.120 --> 01:29:42.160
Or you can direct message me as well on Facebook

1310
01:29:42.160 --> 01:29:45.080
and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.

1311
01:29:45.080 --> 01:29:45.920
So love you guys.

1312
01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:47.200
God bless you.

1313
01:29:47.200 --> 01:29:49.440
Have a great rest of your week.