So let's get started, guys, for tonight's topic.
Paul's in the waiting room, trying
to get everybody in here.
Somebody else.
Hey, guys.
Good to see you all here.
Probably going to be some more jumping on here pretty soon.
And so tonight, if you didn't know it,
the subject is sex that connects and doesn't disconnect.
And so this is an open discussion, guys,
an open forum.
We did this men's only.
The women are doing their version
over on the other side.
And didn't want it to be co-head, especially
because of the topic tonight, so that it
helps to really get to the bottom of stuff
and be able to give everybody a chance to feel open
and able to ask whatever questions
and just kind of go places that you want to go
and that I think a lot of men deal with certain issues,
certain things, certain dimensions
of sexual connection, and that we're
able to, instead of having it together in a co-ed sense,
that we can get some more details.
So welcome, everyone.
Edward Yee, I have not met you before.
So welcome, Edward.
Is this your first time to a last year single event
or 1822 men's event?
Or have you been part of an all community event before?
I kind of recently joined, maybe a couple of months ago.
But then I just realized that I didn't quite
join the men's Facebook group until maybe last week.
And I think I might have went to one live event
or just watched the replay.
OK.
On the men's side or the all community with the co-ed?
I think that was the one that Jackie was hosting.
So I guess it was co-ed.
Good, good.
OK, well, welcome then.
Welcome.
Everybody else I have met before, seen before.
So it's all good.
So guys, I'm not going to get into a specific topic
as far as a specific teaching on this area.
I have talked about this before.
But I just really want this to be an open forum tonight.
Because really, it just, I mean, I could say a lot of things.
I could talk about all the experiences I've had.
I can talk about this subject.
But I think it'd be best served if I was responding
and we had discussions centered around what you're
bringing to the table, concerns, comments, questions,
experiences that you've had, things
that you want to get off your chest even.
This is an opportunity to do that tonight.
Because again, open forum, men only.
It's very important that this area, man, I get it, man.
Not only are we having a crisis in men right now,
we are having a crisis in sexuality.
And we've been having that for generations, decades,
really even you can go back to the beginning of time
because there was a lot of messed up things
that even happened in ancient times.
So it's nothing new.
It is very central.
It is very germane to the human experience.
So to act like it's so taboo or to act like sex
is such a difficult thing, I mean,
it's difficult in the fact that it's
so intimate to us as human beings
and then specifically more as men.
There's the sense of we have to have everything all together.
This is a very sensitive area.
And so getting into discussion about it
or treating it in any sort of serious,
respectable way has been challenging
for a lot of people all their lives.
So this is the opportunity.
is the moment to to get down to some of this some of these things so um let's just open up in prayer
anybody want to do that anybody want to open up in prayer for us tonight
i think nita or charles you want to try
who wants to open up prayer anybody
okay father god we just thank you for this time together i thank you for each and every one of
these men that are on here men that are willing to come and to have discussion to get involved
to um take their relationships and take their lives and take their their love lives seriously
and i thank you right now lord as you'll guide us and lead us into this moment into this
conversation tonight lord um show us things and show us the truths of what you would want
to have us know tonight show us and give us understanding lord a depth of understanding
that we've never had before in this area about ourselves father god let us um let there be a
revealing lord tonight so that we can be healed in this area so that we can move on so that we can
experience the greatness the beauty lord that you have for us in this way in jesus name we pray
amen amen hey david david a question um you're the subject matter expert um you've been a pastor
at church for quite a number of 20 years something right but did you say i was a what expert
you were you were a subject matter expert when it comes to all this okay and you have been in
church for as a pastor for i i mean 10 15 20 years yes just i'm just talking a very
general question right david in church especially the topic of sex is hush hush hush hush nobody
wants to discuss nobody wants to do anything and yet there is so much perversion right i'm not
judging anybody but it is what it is right so when it comes to such a topic that is so integral
to a relationship between man and woman right why is there or maybe i should ask this question why is
it not important to have a quiet discussion on this subject because it's everywhere i mean you cannot
hide it anywhere it's everywhere so why is there a sort of a sort of a i do not know um um
what's the right word a sort of a um hesitancy maybe hesitancy is not the right word but why
is it i don't have a quiet discussion on this topic on this call with men and women together
we and we are all adults just your thoughts now my thoughts are is that it's appropriate to have both
it's appropriate to have co-ed discussions it's also appropriate to have um separate discussions
so all most of the um marriage intensives um special workshops around relationships that
i've ever been to had both where what i felt like or at least the ones that i felt like were the most
effective had both so they had general discussions in this area and they had a session where it was
co-ed and then they had moments where there was a separation um and i i think both are appropriate
um i don't necessarily know that that it's um that has anything to do with church
as much as it is just you know i think there are things that men want to discuss
um that they want to work out and have understanding in i think that women feel
comfortable discussing deeper things with other women and then i think there are things obviously
that both men and women in a co-ed setting those subjects need to be addressed in a co-ed setting
in a respectful way um so that in a in a way that everybody can hear the same thing
so i think both actually is very appropriate and i mean trust me jackie goes there a lot
in the co-ed stuff all the time anyway um so i don't i we i don't know that we've ever had
a dedicated session that's co-ed on this area but maybe we should answer thank you
maybe just a thought thought that if we could have something like this co-ed it would be great
and i and i'm assuming that nitin that um that you're inquiring about that because you feel like
hey men want to know from where
women, they want to hear the woman's side of this story.
Women want to hear from the men's side of the story,
that kind of thing.
It's like, I don't want to make a generalized statement,
and I don't like it.
But it's the impression with women
that men are sex perverts.
They're pigs.
All they want is sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.
That is seriously a very misconception.
And we want to know, do the Christian ladies think?
You broke up there.
So I didn't hear the last part of that statement.
What I was saying was, just want to clear up misconceptions
like, OK, all men want to sex, sex, sex, which is not true,
because we want to love, we want to provide,
we want to protect.
And there is much more to this whole dynamic than just.
So just a thought, and I'm going to leave it with that
and give the floor back to others.
Thank you, David.
Hey, David, it's Josh.
Can I jump in real quick?
Go ahead, Josh.
Hey, so just a thought as to why it's
important to separate this out.
And I'm, sidebar, I'm very fortunate
that I belong to a church where we have small groups that
are for adults, anywhere from 20s up through 50s even.
It's a very intimate group.
And we've had some very, very raw conversations
in those groups on this very topic, very coed.
But I think in this place, I think part of the reason
why it's separated out, this is a dating community.
Let's bear in mind, there's a men's community,
there's a women's community.
But this is also a dating pool at the same time.
And I think that there's some caution being taken
by dividing the sexes so they can be a little more open
in asking some very direct questions with some
very blunt, direct language.
And bear in mind, this is not like a group of strangers.
This is a dating community.
So do you want all the women hearing
your particular question on sex and sexuality
that might get really, really, really direct and blunt
and vice versa?
Probably not.
So there's a little bit of modesty between the sides
right now that we're trying to preserve, I think.
And I'm sure there's other cases I
know, having been in plenty of live events with David
and Jackie, that in the COVID world,
it does come up in a Q&A session.
But I think this is a little more for us
to, if we have real specifics and things that
are on our heart, that you don't want getting revealed off
to the other side of the women that you're
trying to possibly date.
So just want to throw it out there.
No, I think those are good words.
And I think that's a good perspective, Josh.
I appreciate that.
There's a lot of truth in what you just said.
Yeah, context is important.
It's funny.
In the biblical record, there's a lot
of things that are specific and specific enough.
But then there's a lot of things that aren't specific.
And it's like humans come along and they're like,
well, the Bible says this.
And then when you're having a situation,
I'm not just talking about sex.
I'm talking about a lot of just human behavior.
The Bible is very vague or very seemingly sometimes
indifferent about this or that, not specific enough.
And so if you're a person that's looking for,
I'm not saying anybody is doing this.
But what I'm saying is, if you're
a person that's looking for, can I do this?
Or can I do that?
Or just give me the rules.
Give me the black and white of it all.
It's like it doesn't work that way.
Life doesn't work that way.
Some people want life to work that way,
because it just makes it easy for you just to either follow
the rules or not.
And that's where I think there's an emptiness to our humanity
when we go about our life in that way.
And so this is one area that I've always felt like that,
like if I'm just talking non-religiously,
I'm just talking about culturally.
Let me just put it that way.
There's a lot of sexuality that goes on in our culture
that's right before us.
I mean, matter of fact, we're being abused,
I think, in a cultural sense, all day long
with sexual imagery, sexual messages, and so forth.
And we all understand why, because it's
a very powerful medium.
It's a very powerful, persuasive, seductive thing
that's trying to be perpetrated in whatever way it's
trying to be selling you.
But we're having Christ in our culture
where a person's sexuality, there's
a whole section of our...
of our culture that's measured by what their sexuality is. Like, not their gender,
but what their sexual preference is. And I'm like, I don't walk up to people and go,
hi, I'm David, I'm heterosexual. I don't introduce myself by my sexuality.
You understand what I'm saying? So it just makes no sense to me
why this is such an upfront issue. And the reason I'm bringing this up is you're like,
what does this have to do with our own sexuality and relationships and so forth?
It's because our sexuality was meant to be very, very intimate, first and foremost,
intimacy. It's a very one-on-one situation and it's a very private situation. So the fact that
we would take this subject and even talk about it in a group setting is precarious already.
You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't have the desire to know people,
friends of mine who are other married couples. I don't have a desire to know about what goes on in
the bedroom in their life. I want to be their friend. I'll hang out with them. I'll go on
vacation. I've got family members. In the course of normal life, I just want to know people. I want
to know people to a certain degree appropriately. I do not need or nor do I want to know what goes
on in their life sexually because that's not a depth of relationship that I'm going to go to.
Now, have I talked and had open discussions with friends and family about this area? Yeah,
when the opportunity arises and just when the course of our conversation goes there.
So I'm not afraid of it. I'm not uneasy with it. It's an area and it's a topic of our lives
that I think should be very, very, very much respected and honored because it's that sacred.
Right? It's one of the most sacred things that we can do and we can be involved with
is our sexuality. And it's also one of the reasons why this area of our life is so attacked.
Does that make sense? I mean, just think of like, I don't know what it is that everyone's experience
with sex is—wrong, right, or indifferent—but I guarantee you that it's definitely an area
that attacks so many people in terms of just the taboo, the troubleness, the perversion,
the general desire is just really under siege. And it has been for all of history.
Why is that so? It's because it's very intricately tied to the very deepest part of you.
And secondly, it's tied to the very relationship, the highest order of relationship that human
beings involved with, the relationship of a man and a wife. Right? So we're already dealing with
a very sensitive topic as it is. So I want to get into some specifics about—now that I've laid a
little bit of a foundation on that—I want to get into some specifics and I want to hear back from
you and some questions and some scenarios, because I think, like I said at the beginning of this
call, I could just talk as much as I want to and as much as I can on this subject. But if I'm not
saying anything that's hitting home with you, it doesn't do you any good. So I need to respond to
some of the things that you might have been dealing with, you might be going through,
questions you might have. If you have questions on what is the ideal sexual preference or sexual
behavior in marriage, we can go there. If you have questions about, like, why do I feel this way? Why
am I dealing with what I'm dealing with sexually? Or this is what happened in my past. And so I want
to unpack a little bit of that. Anything really is on the table, guys, tonight. So who wants to
be brave and to just jump in? I have one. Go ahead, Charles. So, okay, so...
Try to frame it in a question, too, okay? Just so we can all sort of, like, hear what the inquiry is,
okay? Okay, for those of us who did not enter Christianity aversion, how do we maintain our
integrity?
pretty or morality and not be led away by our hormones, you
know, like not in the sense of going and sleeping with women.
But that's that's not the issue. The issue is like in my, my
heart, my head, like masturbation, stuff like that.
Like, like, if your experience that you already tasted the
fruit and how good it can be. And it's like, it's, it's hard
going back, you know, it's so I struggle with that.
No, I hear what you're saying. So my general answer to that,
and and this is, it's, it's not meant to just be like, very
simple to like to simplify it. But it is meant to be able to
get very straightforward and very, and going towards the
ideal, the kingdom of heaven always gives us an ideal to
reach out to. Do you know what I mean by that? Like, God's
always inviting us into the best into the more, right? So we
can't walk around guys. And well, let me let me phrase it
this way. This is what we do as humans, a lot of times,
especially as guys, we walk around already knowing that
we're not hitting the ideal in a lot of areas in our life. Okay.
And especially in the area of sexuality, right? We're not
hitting these ideals. We're not what we want to be. Okay. And so
what is our natural human response to that our natural
human response to that, you know, outside of, you know, of
an understanding of who we are as sons of God, is that, you
know, it's defeated already, you've already messed it up,
you've already crossed the line, you've already you can't take it
back. Just like Charles was saying, like, once you've tasted
it's like, what are you what are you going to do with that?
Right? So God's always asking you and inviting you into the
ideal. And in sexuality, I think one of the greatest things, we
have to look at these core truths, right? And one of them
is the fruit fruit of the spirit, which is self control.
Oh, my God.
Hello.
I don't know what happened there.
Okay. And one of them is self control. And I think sexuality
in the area of sexuality, that's where one of the greatest things
that we can use as a way to go towards is like, if I lay that
on heavily, like, oh, it's just about self control, you got to
be, you got to be in control of yourself and da da da da da lay
it heavy on yet like that. I think that's inappropriate. I
think what the truth of heaven is, and the kingdom of heaven is
asking you to do is like, inviting you into an opportunity
in each and every moment to to operate under self control with
power of the Holy Spirit. Every situation offers you an
opportunity in choice. So when I was a younger man, you know,
when you're when you're flooded with hormones, as a young
teenager, and you're like, why? Why is this happening to me? I'm
1415 16 years old, or whatever it is, you started having
erections. And when he started ever having, you know, just like
a flood of hormones that are coming into you. I remember in
seventh grade, I mean, I was so crazed with hormones, hormones.
And then like, everything turned me on. And I'm in seventh grade
in class. And I just like, where's this coming from? Like,
what the I mean, like, I can remember, just, I could not, it
was like, uncontrollable. And I probably it was probably the
first time, I guess, in my life, where I mean, that was
really happening to me and just in a big way. But yet, I can't
do anything. So in like the Christian world, in the church
sense, in the biblical sense, you have all these things, but
you can't get married, you know, you only can do it when you're
married, and you can't act upon anything like that. Well, I'm
12. Now, what the hell am I supposed to do between 12? And
whenever I gonna get married? Like, what the frick are you
talking about? Like, it's the stupidest, most ignorant thing.
It's like, well, you just hold this carrot out there. And you
just hope it works out. You know, like, and there's no
training, there's no discussion. There's no like, there's no
understanding. It's just you, you did the deed. And now you've
just done gone messed it all up, right? You guys, we have to
understand that. That's, that's not the way of the kingdom. The
kingdom is a
an invitation. And it will be that way for all of these things, all of our life.
This life is one big huge invitation to rise up to become sons of God.
There are things that I feel like that I might not ever get right.
You know? And it's like, what am I supposed to do with that? Does that mean I just go to hell
because I didn't get it right? I mean, that's so religious and so obstinate and so against
the heart of the Father and the kingdom that is shown in heaven, in scripture.
It's just, you can't have it both ways. You can't have it like, oh, you crossed the line,
you done did it now, and grace all at the same time. I mean, that does not compute, right?
So, what do you do when you didn't come into faith as, you know, come into your adolescence
as a believer? I mean, it's like everybody really kind of is in the same boat, if you want to put it
in that way. I mean, experientially, I guess, you know, there's different levels of order
of how you come into this thing. But quite honestly, Charles, I mean, you're going to,
men and women are going to deal with this, these issues one way or another.
So, the order in which they come, I don't think is as important as much as it is to
understand where are you right now and where do you want to go? Where is God leading you into,
you know, where you want to go? And if you're struggling now, that's great. Struggling is good.
You know, the difference between the Judeo-Christian faith
versus other faiths, other religions, is that most other ways tell you, hey, you got to do this,
you got to submit, or you don't get anything. There's no, there's this, like, there's no help,
there's no grace, there's no, like, you either find the path, you submit to the thing,
or it's over with, or you just have to keep on going around the mountain. But in
the Judeo-Christian tradition, the name Israel means to struggle.
It means to contend for. And so, when you're contending for fruits of the Spirit,
like faith, hope, love, gentleness, kindness, goodness, meekness, long-suffering, you know,
all those, and self-control being one of them, this is an area of self-control. Not to put it
on you like, oh, you just don't have self-control, or like, you know, you're bad. I'm just saying,
this is an opportunity. This is how we have to look at our sexuality when we're struggling with
this. We have to look at it as an opportunity, as this is an opportunity for me to learn self-control.
And sometimes, when we learn self-control, sometimes we can learn self-control in one area,
and then it comes over to another area. Can you think of other areas in your life where
maybe you don't exhibit a lot of self-control other than sexuality?
Yeah, I can think of a couple different areas.
And so, it's important that you put it in the right context. Now, if you want to just suffer
and just go, oh, I'm a terrible sex addict, or I'm a terrible person because I can't get this
area of my life together. Nobody will ever love me. This is so taboo. This is so, you know, riddled
with such tremendous guilt and shame and so forth. I'll just never get beyond this. Well, who do you
think wants you to think that way? The devil. The enemy of your soul. So, it's a bondage.
It's a jail sentence, essentially, if that's the way you're going to go with it.
But if you turn that on its head and you're like, look, the struggle is real.
feel, this is my real emotions, these are my real feelings, this is really what's
biologically and physically is going on inside of me.
And Lord, you created this mess. I mean, you created
this networking of all these things. Even though
I was born into sin, you can do anything about that. You were born into sin,
scripture says it, and you were created in biologically and
emotionally and spiritually the way you were.
Those are two things you can't do anything about
in terms of the origin. But what you can do something about it is
what are you going to do with it?
How are you going to take this and put this in subjection
to the process of heaven and start walking in
self-control, start walking in grace, start walking
in goodness, start walking in and manifesting
the fruits of the spirit in your life?
That's good. In that context, that begins to take out all of the shame
and the guilt, which are not kingdom emotions,
not productive in the kingdom, and it begins to give you an opportunity to be
able to win and to start succeeding. Amen.
And it gives you a power and authority
to start saying, this is not who I am, this is not who I want to be, this is not
who my Father God has called me into.
He's called me up to a higher place. I can rise up to that.
Are you going to be perfect in it? No. Are you going to fall and
mess up, but you're going to keep up
and keep going?
I don't know. That's just kind of the way I look at it.
It's an invitation for upgrade. It's constantly an invitation and opportunity
to move forward. Now,
when you talk about, like a lot of people,
especially in this area of sexuality, people talk about addiction.
People talk about, like, can't help myself.
There's other areas in people's lives where they feel like there's an
addiction. There's substance abuse addiction.
There's porn addiction. Well, that's kind of like what I'm
getting at. There seems to be this idea that,
especially in sexuality, that you can get to a place where
I just can't help myself. I just can't control myself.
I don't have any... And the fact of the matter is that's
just a complete lie. And I say that in the most loving way,
that it's just a complete lie that wants to keep you in a place
where you can't move forward. You can't have victory.
Do you think there are some lies I need to break off of
in that area then? Well, I mean, I guess I don't know.
I don't necessarily know if I want you to
concentrate on having this spiritual breakthrough.
And that's going to mean everything as much as I want you to
reframe what you're struggling with.
Because you said you're struggling with it. Okay, so it's no big deal.
Struggle with it. Like, have you ever gone to
the point where you're in the midst of your most depraved
moments where you're talking with God?
Yeah. I mean, if you're in... Like, most of the time, especially in sexual
situations where you're involved in
a behavior that's unbecoming, that's not your best, that's not
in your less worthy self.
You know, how many of you have been so encumbered with shame? Most of the time
what you do is you reject anything that's like
what you know to be good. You're certainly not having a conversation with
God in these moments. You know, you're doing everything you
can to avoid the voice of the Lord. You know, this is
what Jonah did. Jonah was called to a city to be able to
preach the good news, and he completely rejected. He ran from the Lord.
He's like, I gotta get out of here. I can't hear the voice of the Lord.
I don't want to do what he wants me to do,
and I'm going to try to run away from it all.
What about if you invited God into the very
most depraved area of your life instead of being afraid of it?
Why didn't you face it head on and go, you know what?
I'm in a really low moment right now.
I'm in a really bad place.
And I'm going to invite you God to have a conversation with me
in this moment, like right now.
Can I comment on that?
Go ahead, Brent.
What's that?
Can I comment on that?
Yeah.
So I lose the name of the book.
But I read a book once that, and it's
all so relational, that's the kindness of God
that leads us to repentance.
And shame is absolutely from the enemy.
So he likened us dealing with our sin
as a pile of nasty stuff.
But God isn't on the other side of it.
He literally is beside us with his arm around our shoulder
saying, we're going to deal with this together.
Yeah.
And it's the relationalness of that.
Like you guys talk about, the higher things
is the relation with him, our identity with him.
There's now no condemnation.
All things are made new, just on and on.
Absolutely.
May I say something really quick?
Yeah, go ahead, William.
So I also think a lot of times when we fall,
we look at that as a big failure,
where God looks at that as a failure,
but as a place for us to grow and learn.
And I love when he died on the cross.
He didn't just die for our sins, but he died for the shame
that we have.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And guys, it becomes very precarious in relationship
because as much as God sits with us in the midst of our mess
and wants us to get through it together
and is full of grace and love towards us
and shame is not a proper productive kingdom emotion,
well, the problem with that is in relationship,
human beings aren't as understanding a lot of the time.
So this is where in relationship,
it becomes very, very challenging.
Because especially in the marriage relationship,
where all things are predicated on a bedrock of trust,
and that is where it can get very difficult.
Because I'm sure all of you have experienced
where either you or someone you know,
you lost someone else's trust or they lost your trust in them,
depending on whatever the situation was.
And this area of sexuality can be very precarious in this way.
So this is why we focus in on a lot of,
what is your sexual history?
You know, like, what is your experience?
And so I'm not saying that we focus on it as a community.
I'm just saying that this is why people, when they're
getting into relationships, they want
to have these discussions.
And you should have these discussions
at the appropriate time.
Certainly not a level one relationship, nor level two,
nor level three, usually probably in level four
relationship.
To have that discussion and have all things, all hearts
clear prior to the moment of marriage commitment.
So having said that, what are some of the things
that you feel like that might be difficult to negotiate
or to navigate in the area of sexuality
as it comes to finding relationship,
finding a love connection, which is ultimately
leading to marriage?
Anybody?
David, I'm sorry.
Can you repeat the question, please?
Well, the question is, we've talked
a lot about our human behavior.
We've talked a lot about, like, the way
heaven is dealing with us and is working with us.
We're talking about struggle.
We're talking about the very germaneness of sexuality
to all of us as human beings, especially as men.
But in the context of working towards relationship,
getting to know.
know someone, what are your questions around sexuality
when you're ramping up to getting
to know someone in a romantic way, in a romantic
relationship?
OK.
David, I haven't dated a whole lot.
So I'm going to ask this question.
David, when, let's just say, level one, level two,
level three, level four, right?
We talked about boundaries.
And women want to feel safe with their guy.
It's an instinct.
So when it comes to, let's just say,
me getting serious with somebody, right?
And it's an outward expression of you liking the person.
You will kiss.
I mean, I will kiss.
I will hold hands.
How do I know that she will be responsive and accept that?
Like, I'm not talking about making out
or all that kind of nonsense.
I'm just like simple kiss, holding hands,
hugs, non-sexual way.
When is the right time I will know that she's open to that?
Because I feel like I want to express that in the most
caring and respectful manner.
If you're in a level two relationship,
that's probably not a line you want to cross.
Because the relationship isn't defined
as an exclusive relationship.
You're just dating.
You're just getting to know people.
It's very casual.
In level three, where you're crossing the line to say,
hey, I want to intentionally get to know you.
And I believe you want to do the same.
You're saying the same back to me.
And we're going to exclusively see one another
in a dating relationship, hopefully
kind of discovering whether there's a romantic connection.
That's probably not at the beginning of level three.
But somewhere in the midst of level three on to level four,
that kind of behavior is appropriate, obviously
with respect and obviously with honor and so forth.
But you don't know.
The simple answer to the question
is you don't know whether it's going to be reciprocated.
Because you don't know this person.
You don't know how they would respond to you.
There are a lot of people that have never been kissed.
There are a lot of people that have done a lot of kissing.
And unless you cross that bridge,
you don't know what it's like or how they're going to respond
until the moment.
Now, I'll tell you, Jackie and I, we
had expressed our interest towards each other exclusively.
And we were still getting to know each other.
And the pace at which we were, our relationship
was occurring from we met in April.
And by November of that same year, we were married.
So our relationship, in terms of just pace,
went fairly quickly.
But I will say, we never forgot the moment when
we first had our first kiss.
And it wasn't necessarily at the altar.
I mean, it wasn't at the altar.
But it was in level three prior to us going to level four.
And it was a very dynamic, romantic moment.
And it wasn't necessarily in the most like we weren't dressed up.
And it wasn't top of the Eiffel Tower or anything.
It wasn't positioned romantically.
But it was just very casual.
It was in a, quite honestly, it was in a parking lot.
I had just been to the driving range.
And I was showing her that I can golf, whatever.
I was just sharing something with her
that was important to me.
And that was a big thing.
Because that's what men do.
We're like, hey, I can do this.
Let me show you how I can.
And that's kind of a manly thing.
And it was after that moment that we were just connecting.
And it was just, I took advantage of an opportunity
where I felt like she was open to it.
And I kissed her.
And she didn't reject me.
And it was a precarious moment.
And I navigated it pretty good.
And it was a great kiss.
And it was well-received.
And from that moment, it was just like, wow.
It was on.
And it was good.
And so, you know, but sometimes that first kiss
is not as good as it maybe will be in the future.
Not everybody is as skilled.
And that's not like I was like, I'm Mr., you know,
Mr. Suave, Mr. have my game together, Mr. like,
you know, player, you know, like I know how to kiss
a woman type thing.
I didn't have that history at all.
It just was very organic with us.
So hopefully those interactions will be organic with you.
And it didn't start with a kiss.
Of course, it started with, you know, affection
and there's a hand and you rub, you know,
like you walk against somebody and you kind of, you know,
playfully, you know, hit shoulders together
or something like that.
You know, that all of that human and touching connection
that's innocent happens over a period of time.
Does that answer your question?
Yes, David.
And one final thing before Brett I know raises his hand.
If in doubt, right?
If in doubt and let's just say I'm with the lady
I am in level three, I want to express myself in that way.
Hey, is it better to just communicate?
Hey, this is how I'm feeling.
And I just wanted to make sure that you are ready.
I didn't want it to spring a surprise on you.
Is that a bad question to ask?
Because everything-
Oh, I mean, it's kind of like,
it's kind of, it can go both ways.
If you lay it out like a textbook,
it can be really kind of awkward.
If you lay it out in a sort of like
as romantic way as possible, like say you're in a moment
and you feel like, man, I really want to kiss this woman.
And it's the end of the night and I'm dropping her off.
And it's kind of like the traditional maybe moment
when there might be a kiss, right?
Like after a date and this isn't your first date, right?
But you're like in that moment,
like, man, I really would like to kiss this woman.
This might be an opportunity.
I might be able to give her a kiss
and show her what I'm really like, how affectionate I am.
And you're standing there face to face
and you're in this moment, but you're not really sure.
There's a way to like maybe even say like,
hey, is this okay?
Or may I proceed or something?
I mean, you don't have to be like super like
with a contractual like written response,
but there's sort of a formal romantic way
that can be done to where you can ask sort of ask permission
or maybe emotionally ask for permission
to move forward in that moment.
Does that make any sense to you?
Yes, David.
Thank you so much.
Brett, you had your hand up.
Well, I was very similar.
I'm in a, like I said, a three plus situation with a lady,
but I have every intention of wanting to kiss her
but knowing her, she's been backed into corners before.
And what I was gonna say is I somehow have full intention
of asking her permission before I do it
because I absolutely do not want to make her forced,
but I also don't want to be a robotic knucklehead either.
Robotic knucklehead either.
Yeah, exactly.
No, but you know what?
Every situation's different.
And I think some women,
especially women who have been preyed upon,
and that's another huge, huge thing
that I think a lot of women,
I would say even most women, even more than 50%
at some point have been obviously inappropriately
advanced upon, preyed upon,
however you want to say to many varying degrees.
And I think it's always best
to be as respectful as possible.
And I think that women,
even though they might react weird sometimes to it,
I think women appreciate a man who would be respectful
with air on the side of being respectful
versus being super like, hey, let me take you in,
let me sweep you off your feet and just bow you down
and just lay a big one on you.
I'm not saying that's inappropriate.
because sometimes that could be very appropriate, you know, in terms of, you know, the right kind
of people. Sorry, I've got little gnats here flying in my face here. But at the same time,
I think erring on the side of respect, like, hey, I really feel like right now I want to kiss you.
And I think now would be a great time, you know, and just kind of like in that sort of like low
voice sort of like soft way, but it has to be the right moment. You can't just be in, you know,
like in the McDonald's line, you know, has to, you know, so do everything you can to set up
the moment or to be in a space to where that can be super awesome. You definitely want your first
kiss to be awesome. Jackie and I still talk about it and tell the story all the time about it,
because it was really that awesome. Now, there's some other things that maybe weren't so awesome
in our, you know, in those stages, like I didn't think that the me asking her to marry me was that
awesome of a I could have I could have worked a little bit harder in that moment, that proposal
ring sort of asking for the marriage moment there, that could have been a little bit more romantic,
it could have been better orchestrated. So, right. I wanted to get into some, some, some
various more specifics. I don't want to just kind of curtsy around this guys. What, what are some
real questions here? Connor, what do you got? Well, I got this thing about being concerned why
I haven't been having sometimes. Well, I did see women, but I'm not having much luck. And it's
probably because of where I'm gazing at, because a lot of Pete got someone told me that in youth
group in ministries with some guy men's discipleship that women don't like when a guy when a guy looks
at her and probably like looking down because it turns them off. Because, well, here's my problem.
I was like, all right, I understand that that turns them off. But problem is, sometimes I walk
by and I see him and my eyes go. It's like when they were skinny, any like the word, hardly
anything at a pool or where there's or whatever skin tight attire they're wearing, or basically
zoom. And like, because I'm afraid if I if I do, if I look and then I turn back because I know that
I'm right, they're gonna gossip and think I'm some creep up to no good. And I but I keep confirming
them is women. I know that I'm comfortable talking about saying, has there been a problem? They keep
around me, they behave normally and deny it like nothing happens if I didn't do it at all,
or I'm not doing I haven't done anything wrong. How do what am I going to do about what is something
I need to deal about? It happens. I mean, I don't really know. I don't really know what the answer
to the question is, other than, you know, yeah, it's it's a situation in our world and our culture
and the place we live. Like, look, I don't make a habit of ogling women. But I do notice
things that are attractive in that way, you know, and there's plenty of it out there.
And so I'm not going to ignore it like it's not there. But at the same time,
the imaging that comes across your eyes and across across your, your mind, and your controlled
behavior is really important. It's something that like, look, especially if, if, if I don't do this
when my wife's not around, but I especially don't do it when my wife is around. Does that make sense?
It's not like, oh, well, my wife's not around. It's okay. Not saying that at all. I'm just
saying that I especially would never want a situation where my wife has is observing me
ogling or just checking out or just like looking at another woman, very obviously,
because that would be offensive to her. Right? I'm not saying it's not right for me
that to look at another woman. What I'm saying is, is that I'm very respectable and cognizant
of the fact, especially when my wife is around for her sake and for our sake, because I honor
and respect her for her value and her worth. And like I said, it's not like, oh, well,
I don't do this. I do whatever I want to when my wife's not around. No, I also have the same
standard and behavior when I'm just by myself, because I respect myself. I honor myself as well,
because I'm like, I
I want to be the man that I say I am.
So I'm constantly trying to live up to that.
I'm an honorable man.
I'm a worthy man.
I'm a trustworthy man.
And I do whatever I can to try to live up to that.
Am I perfect at that?
No.
Do I do that all the time?
Do I find myself in situations
where this is very difficult?
Yeah.
Like, whoa, I saw that and I can't unsee that, right?
So the question is, did I just cross the line?
No, the question is, what am I going to do with that?
So when you're encountered with an image,
because we're so visually wired, guys,
I mean, let's just face it, guys are very visual.
It's usually the first order of attraction
is the visual part of it.
Not saying it always is, but it usually is
because this is the way we're wired.
And God created us that way.
But the thing about it is, is the question is,
is what are you going to do with that image?
Jesus said, when you look upon another woman
with lust in your heart,
you've already crossed the line of infidelity.
You've already crossed the line of adultery.
What does that mean?
That just the look?
Is it like, oh my God,
I got to walk around with blinders on my eyes,
or I got to walk around with just covering my eyes
so I don't see anything?
No, it literally means, what are you going to,
like, I can look at a very attractive woman
who is attractive to me and not lust after her
because I've developed a sense of self-control in my life
to say, that's not for me, that's not mine.
That's, I have a protocol that I go through
that I say, this is not any of my business.
So I'm taking that image that came before me
because it just assaulted me, right?
And I'm taking that under subjection.
I'm like, okay, this is, I'm not entertaining this thought.
I'm not going there with that because it's not appropriate.
It's not for me.
I'm, you know, this is not who I am, right?
Yeah, not to mention-
That's the process of having a self-controlled
or a, you know, a surrendered conscience or mind before.
So that's, so I guess what I'm trying to say is,
is your goal, if you're not doing that,
your goal is to work towards that as an ideal.
Your goal is to work towards an ideal,
a pattern of behavior and response in those situations
to be able to make sure that, hey, you're right.
I'm not gonna do that because, you know,
I don't want people to think differently of me.
I don't want people to think inappropriately of me
and I want people to get to know me.
I don't want a chance observation to undo the opportunity
for someone to get to know me in a real and personal
and, you know, direct way.
Yeah, that's the thing.
The only thing that's prevented me from avoiding this
because the fear that if I look, like, for example,
I go to the mall and I see a girl
with any skin tight leggings or a bare belly exposed,
my eye goes back to normal.
She, well, and I go, and in most cases,
I don't know if they're gossiping,
saying, ew, that's a creepy middle-aged man,
or they're just behaving around me.
They just behave and move on like I did nothing wrong.
But it's, I can't control that.
One thing I know is that they're not dressed like that
so I can gaze at them like an object.
They're just dressed like that to look desired
and for the most beautiful trend.
I, you know what?
I don't really know how to respond to that
other than just, it is what it is.
And unless it's a real situation
where you're actually trying to get to know somebody,
then you're just gonna, it's all on you.
It's all on you as far as, like,
what it is you're gonna do with it.
And that's all I can say about that.
Paul, I want to get to you
because you've had your hand raised.
Yeah, I'm, my question is kind of centered around expectations
as you're in the, I'm in a dating relationship,
go through the levels, you know, obviously marriage-minded,
and the expectation around, you know, sexuality,
sexual interactions.
And I imagine it's, I mean, I was in a relationship
is engaged once briefly, it only lasted for a few weeks. And,
you know, and we did go through kind of a premarital kind of
counseling kind of thing. And sexual and sex, sex was
definitely a topic. But I guess, I guess my question is like, you
know, how, what do you recommend is the best way for a man to
prepare for because relationships are different.
Some people have wounding around it. So probably what maybe
Jackie might be telling some of the ladies is, do you interact
in a health, sexual way healthy. And you're telling us like, if
I'm expecting this often, and or if I feel rejected, if she
declines it, because she's tired one day, you know, anyway, just
you kind of get the idea of my question.
Yeah, no, I get it. Um, so here's the thing, you know, um,
this is this is very difficult, because our culture, we're so
immersed in the world that we live in, we can't get out of it,
you know, and so our culture puts everything backwards. I
mean, everything, they literally, especially in this
area, they put like sex first, and that, you know, it's just
like, it's, it's the very first thing. And the problem with that
is, is that I feel like the intention, in terms of intimacy
and the and the progressing of going from knowing somebody to
full blown intimacy in the marriage relationship, is
supposed to be number one, an exploration. And especially in
the area of sex and intimacy, and you know, nakedness to naked
people together, that is supposed to be explored in the
context of marriage. And the thing that people modern people
have a problem with that is, is they're like, Well, but what if
I don't like that? But what if I don't, you know, find them a
attractive after that? Well, what if, what if, what if, what
if, what if I want to know all the things before I get into
this contract and get to this covenant? And I'm like, bro,
sorry, that's not the way it works. You know, there's, you
know, there's enough level of attraction should be there
should be enough level of chemistry should be when you're
getting to know someone, that your, your inquiry begins to be
answered after the fact. And that's the great risk of
intimate relationship. It's also the great reward of intimate
relationship. So it's like, you know, they say, what is it they
say about the milk and the cow, you can't taste the milk unless
you buy the cow. I mean, it's just like, you got to buy the
cow first. Well, I know that sounds funny and weird. But I'm
just trying to simplify it in a sense that's like, you know, you
can't get the cart before the horse. And you can have like you
can have a level of discussion and understanding, especially
with someone's beat past and their and their previous
relationships in an honorable way. So yes, I mean, you can
come to a certain level of understanding, like maybe, but
it usually is predicated on how much the other person is willing
to share prior to you coming into full blown marriage
relationship. So it is definitely important to have the
discussion in an honorable way. You know, in a way that is like,
I don't know all the answers to how we are going to navigate
this. But I appreciate you sharing me sharing with me, you
know, your past, and I'm going to try my best to try to
negotiate that and navigate that as we go forward in our
relationship. But the areas of your sexuality and your sexual
preferences and your your the ways that you're intimate, those
are going to be explored between you and that person
after marriage. And it is going to be unique to you, the way you
and that other person connect sexually, is to be explored and
is supposed to be uncovered and revealed through the process, or
through the relationship of marriage. So did I draw enough
of a line there for you?
Yes.
Because, yeah, I mean, depth is, is it appropriate to have a
discussion in this area prior to marriage? Absolutely. As as
comfortable as each of you are willing and wanting and ready to
share this area.
Yeah.
And so it becomes a very precarious, it can be a very precarious conversation because
you don't want to push somebody to know like, well, I've got to know this and I've got to
know that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That is not really a discussion.
That's more of a demand.
So it requires true discussion, heart to heart.
Hypotheticals are difficult at times.
I guess I just know, I've heard of guys that enter a marriage and it's kind of sexless,
you know what I mean?
And it's like, and I know you can't predict that, right?
I mean, it's just, I guess that's part of it and dealing with it and-
Well I will say this, I will say this.
There are like, we take pre-married individuals, individuals who have, we've been doing this
for some time.
We've had individuals that said, hey, we're engaged now.
And we would like some pre-marital counseling, pre-marital discussion.
And so we actually take individuals in our program through SIMBAS, which is Save Your
Marriage Before It Starts, and a process.
And part of that process is to have a discussion to set some expectations in a very nominal
way.
To like, hey, how would you, what would you expect in terms of sexual interactions so
many times per week, per month, whatever?
What would you do?
And each, the man and the woman, they both take the assessment separately and then they
start to, then the report comes together and it shows a comparison and it gives an opportunity
for couples to have a look at some of the areas that, in which they are extremely compatible,
may have some incompatibility, may have some, you know, or yellow flags, red flags, that
kind of stuff.
And it doesn't, it's not a grading system to say, oh, you're not compatible to be married.
But what it is, it's a system by which it informs the couple to say, hey, these are
some areas you're going to have to really want to, you know, care for in your relationship
going into marriage.
And some people, when they take this assessment, they decide to not be married.
And that's okay too.
But to assess that in a very formalized way, there's ways to do it.
We do it.
And yes, it is appropriate.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Guys, we're up or just past the hour now here.
So I want to give some time, if you have some real questions, some inquiries, heard from
a lot of you, but a couple of you have not really said very much and that's okay if you
don't have anything.
But I'd certainly love to hear from some of the people that haven't said anything yet,
at least comments, questions, inquiries, concerns.
I did some questions, but this is all about you giving me your questions.
That's good.
You gave me the answer about in terms of gazing at women, no matter what attire they're wearing.
But I also have to deal with some Christians who are talking about how we're depraved and
anything.
Well, I looked at the culture in New York and they just repealed on legalizing adultery,
saying it's not the government's business of two consenting adults.
Well, and some Christians respond, oh, they're taking God's law of our government.
Well, no, I think it's just, we got to remember, we just find a common ground where we can
agree with the secular government that we want laws to protect people.
In terms of adultery, well, we do it because it's part of the Ten Commandments.
In the culture, well, they don't find nothing wrong with two consenting adults in the bedroom
unless it's their partner.
So I don't think it's the government is trying to, the culture is getting depraved.
They just want to know about, they just want laws to protect people.
So if we kept adultery legal, it would be illegal, they'll create complications.
Basically to protect you from destroying others as well as ourselves.
And less about wanting God's law in a Christian mandate, because they're not going to listen
to that.
I understand.
Guys, questions on this area.
I want to get to your questions if you have them.
David, may I say something?
Yeah.
And I'll say this and let me ask you a question.
There's no way you're going to cover all of them.
Can you go ahead and provide some method for guys to send questions that you can answer
in some kind of group chat?
Because this thing could easily, and I think it would be helpful if it did, but it could
easily go on for three, four, five, six hours.
There's no way.
Oh, sure.
It's not pragmatic.
So can you do that?
And now you can answer that question.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I mean, I can provide we do have a men's only chat to technically one that does exist on the general chat for the men's monthly group. Um, and Jacqueline is the only female that's in there, just so you know, I believe, I believe that's true. Um, and so you can post in there if you're comfortable.
You can post in the men's monthly group if you're comfortable with that just generally, and we'll try to respond to that and get to that. Um, I think that's probably the best way to either reach us or me specifically.
Um, you can direct message me I mean I'm in the, I, I can't promise you that there's going to be that I'm going to have time to address a lot of inquiries from a lot of different people but there's only 11 people 12 people on this broadcast so that's certainly something I can handle.
Um, so if you want to direct message me in that way that's fine too.
Did you have a comment or question that's appropriate for this moment James.
Sure.
Go with to make sure there was an avenue for guys that are absolutely not going to get to answer their quest, ask their question like to do so.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
There's a general chat in the 18 this it's called in the 1822 men's monthly group when you're in there, there is a messenger chat called the general chat.
So, you can ask your, ask your specific question there.
If that's not specific or private enough, then you can direct message me on Facebook.
Very good. The Indian gentleman was talking I interrupted him I'm sorry.
Hey David, um, oral sex. Right.
David, I don't have any.
It's repugnant to me, both ways. Right.
And I've heard that if you indulge in oral sex too much, it causes cancer, predominantly throat cancer.
How do you deal with this particular subject in a marriage, where one of like I don't want to do it.
And the fact that there is.
I don't know how documented is documented it is, but does it lead to or do throat cancer.
I have no idea I do not know the answer to that question, specific to the medical Jason.
Yeah, the answer is related to HPV human papillomavirus. Oh, the problem HPV is there's technically no tests for it.
There's not a way to test it. Yeah, it's not a way to test it in women.
HPV infection is typically detected by a abnormal pap smear.
But you have to get to that stage.
HPV is almost like herpes simplex one.
It's something estimated that, like, ninety five percent of sexually active adults.
And even there's versions of HPV to cause warts and other things like that.
Not all versions cause warts. But the point is variations of HPV are out there.
And it's like ninety five to ninety eight percent of adults have it.
The problem is, yes, if you have this act with someone who has a sexual version of HPV.
And right. It can. That's what's causing the throat cancer problem.
Yeah, interesting. No, I mean, that's very good. I love that insight, Jason, because, you know, it's always interesting to know.
Like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm not a medical expert in any shape, form or fashion.
I take all of my medical advice from my wife who, you know, anyway, that's just a joke.
But, um. That's.
I can see I can appreciate the fact that there's actually a real answer to that, which that's.
Well, I hadn't didn't know that we were going to get that kind of answer on this call, which is really, really great.
Well, it's essentially the same the same cancer or the HPV that causes cervical cancer is the same HPV that's causing throat cancer.
And in not OK, not all.
all throat cancers, obviously, but yes, for those who's,
and again, the medical literature on this is a little vague
because just like with cervical cancer and HPV,
this is something that takes place
over the course of decades.
Yeah.
So you could be infected in your 30s, let's say,
it may never show up till your late 70s.
And it's hard to make that the one correlation
that you did this and it caused that.
So to also answer the question,
the one-to-one correlation is difficult to ascertain,
but essentially, yes, there's a risk,
just like with cervical cancer and HPV,
if HPV is in your throat,
it can cause cancer there as well.
Yeah.
No, and I appreciate that insight
because I mean, I know that you come from
a wealth of knowledge and expertise
that you would know that.
My answer to Nitin's original question is,
those are things, this is what I was saying earlier,
where people want a specific rule
that says you can do this or can't do that
and for this reason, whatever.
And unfortunately, in scripture,
it doesn't come down and say,
there's no verse in the Bible that says,
you shall do this, you shall not do this and so forth,
specific to like this kind of question.
And I think it's because I think
there's common sense around it.
I think there's preference around it.
Would I ever, first of all,
I don't want to know somebody's sexual activity
enough to know whether they're a person
that engages in oral sex or not
and how they feel about it.
Because quite frankly, it's none of my business, right?
It just isn't.
But if you're asking me, if you're asking
in a sense of like, is it appropriate?
I think relationally, these are the kinds of things
that are between the man and the woman.
Your exploration of your sexual preferences
to be able to work with one another
has to be you two coming together
and being comfortable saying,
this is what I like, what I don't like,
and both have to be on board with it.
And that is the part of the sexual exploration.
I think there are probably lines
where honor and dishonor are very important.
I think there are probably things
that people do in their youth
that they don't do anymore in their elder age
because they finally matured beyond that.
And again, it's a discussion that a man and a woman
in a marriage context would have to have
to say, I like that, I don't like this,
I prefer this or that, whatever.
That's part of the, I feel,
is part of the exploration, sexual exploration process.
There are things that Jackie and I don't participate in
that we think are not as much immoral
as much as they are just inappropriate,
certainly scientifically and medically unsafe, not good.
But again, where you draw that line,
if it's a thing that's for you,
I just find it completely grotesque,
there's nothing wrong with that.
If you have to have a medical reason
to support what you're saying, go for it, I guess.
But I don't even think you need a medical reason to say,
I'm not comfortable with that.
That, I feel, is inappropriate
or I feel is harmful or dishonoring in this way
for this reason.
You know, I think women will appreciate men
who have standards in a way that says,
you know, I think that's dishonorable.
You know, I think that's not something
that shows the way that I wanna express my love
and my connection and my intimacy with you.
There's a wide range of emotions and human behavior
in the area of sexuality that, again,
should be and has to be discussed and explored
and should be,
should be,
not approved, but I mean like appropriate
for that particular couple.
In other words, some people find oral sex to be very pleasurable, both the man and the
woman, and they love it.
And they're happily married, sexually satisfied couples who are married.
And I don't want to know that.
And neither should anybody else, because that's between that married couple.
And then there are other people that don't engage in oral sex, and they are completely
happy, satisfied, sexually satisfied, happy married couples.
And they're just as married and just as satisfied and just as saved as the rest of them.
You know?
So I think it could go both ways.
I don't think there's a hard and fast rule.
But I think it always comes down to being in agreement and being honorable in your marriage
covenant.
Because sexuality, let me say this, this is really important.
Sexual contact and intimacy between a man and a wife, it's not about you getting what
you want or they getting what they want.
The reciprocation of sexual intimacy is about giving and the other person receiving both
ways and being satisfied, but continually trying to, like, if you work towards satisfying
your partner sexually, and like, that is your desire, not about what it is that you want
to get out of it, you are now heading on the right path, you're heading in the right direction
as far as like, what are you, what are you in this for?
Does that make sense?
Hopefully, that makes sense.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Anybody else?
You've almost heard from everybody here.
I want to offer up some encouragement since that came up.
Just real quick, I will take 30 seconds.
The whole porn thing seems to be so prevalent in our society, I really think it hasn't wrecked
our society, but certainly handicapped us.
And as a man who dealt with it on and off for years, I haven't seen it now at this point
since last September.
And all it took was listening to Matt Walsh saying, you know, be a man, you can do it,
just stop doing it.
And it has improved my entire life, it has improved the way I think, it has improved
my effectiveness in work, and I'm no superhero by any means, but I have noticed a huge difference
in my focus, in my clarity, and in the way I deal with people.
So, any man listening to this, because it's uncomfortable to talk about these things,
it really is, if you, there's programs, there's apps, there's all sorts of things out there
that can help you, but if you can just take the bull by the horns and just say, I'm done
doing this, and you just stop doing it, and every time the thought comes up, just go do
something else.
If you occupy your mind, the devil can't have his workshop.
No truer words have ever been spoken on that.
Just like that, James, I appreciate you saying that, that it's so true, it's a problem of
epidemic proportions, nearly every man, especially men, but nearly every sector of our society
has been affected by this cancer, and it is not just diabolical, immoral, destitute, depraved,
but it literally is enslavement.
I've never wanted to go under the hood and try to figure out more about the porn industry
so that I could be that much more appalled by it, because I don't feel like that's necessary,
but I know enough about it.
I think movies like Sound of Freedom have drawn attention to a lot of that, there's
a lot of people out there trying to draw attention to this part of our society, but yeah, it's
a real problem.
It's definitely a strategy of the enemy.
It's not just something that's like, oh, hey, it exists, it's no big deal.
That's exactly what the enemy wants you to perceive in it, like, it's no big deal, whatever,
it's just men being men, boys will be boys, that kind of thing.
No, I love the invitation of, hey, what's it mean to be a real man?
There is psychological and physiological and sociological studies that say that pornography
does not, it's the law.
of diminishing returns throughout the whole thing.
Like, you could go there with that
if you wanted to do that.
But at the same time, the invitation
just to stand up and be a man, that's powerful.
That's powerful to be able to say, look,
just be a man about it.
Be a real man.
Be a man of your word.
Be a man that what you, who you are,
and what you do in private is important.
It's not, doesn't go unobserved and unheard.
It doesn't go unaffected.
And I love the fact that James' personal testimony
is to say, since I've stopped doing that,
and I've stopped basically rising above that,
I'm more productive.
I'm more focused.
I'm more clear.
I'm doing that with my physical health right now.
I'm actually seeing, for the first time in my life,
through exercise, I'm actually seeing results in my body.
I've got a long way to go,
and there's a lot of other things
that I want to get under that self-control,
especially my appetite.
But I'm seeing results, and I'm like,
oh, there's a little bit of hope and shred of evidence
that I can actually do this.
I can actually achieve the goal that I want to achieve,
which is, you know, I want to be fit.
I want to not be addicted to sugar.
I don't want to be addicted to things
that are controlling me.
I want to have focus.
I want to have energy and strength.
And the same thing is true about pornography.
Pornography is something that whittles away at you,
destroys you.
The Bible says that sexual sin is the only type of sin
that actually you sin against yourself.
Think about that for a moment.
That's like a whole nother deep discussion
we could have in this way.
But usually in sin, we sin against another person.
We sin against one another because of our actions,
our behavior, our words, our deeds.
But in sexuality, the words talks about,
this is one of those types of sin
where you actually sin against yourself.
And so it's destructive to the very person that you are,
and you're hurting, you do hurt other people.
What I'm saying is that most importantly though,
you hurt yourself in this area.
And so if you're going to take God's command
to love yourself as you love others,
it's important to love yourself.
It is biblical.
It is kingdom to love yourself,
not just to take care of the temple that God's given you,
but to love, truly love and appreciate
and have affection for yourself
because of who you are as a son of God,
as a creation of the most high.
And all of that that entails going with that.
And part of that is that, how do you treat yourself?
Don't sin against yourself through sexual immorality,
but love yourself and abstain from those things
because in doing so, it brings about tremendous reward.
It brings about tremendous progress.
There's something that is said about a man
who will be able to exercise self-control.
There are certain habits and certain behavior
and certain appetites.
If you could control those,
you will have tremendous success in the rest of your life
and all the other areas of your life.
And it's proven to be true over and over and over again.
And I think that's what James is alluding to
is it's like, look, it didn't just help me
not be a shameful about what I was doing.
It actually helped me in so many other areas
of productivity, thought, focus, accomplishment, achievement.
If you wanna be something, if you wanna be someone,
and if you want to have success,
having an exercising self-control
in all of these areas is paramount, super important.
I'm gonna end it there guys tonight.
Because it's 8.30 and we went pretty good.
If you do have questions,
I appreciate James kind of bringing that up
about where can we send stuff.
If you have comments, concerns, questions,
put it in the general chat
of the Men's Monthly Facebook group.
Or you can direct message me as well on Facebook
and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.
So love you guys.
God bless you.
Have a great rest of your week.