Good evening, gentlemen. How are you?
Got Brett, Chris, and Paul here.
Evening, David.
Yeah. How are you all doing?
We got everybody joining on here.
We're going to give it just a few minutes just to make sure we got out of the field,
wherever they were, trying to watch the eclipse today.
And they made it to a safe place to get on a Zoom call tonight.
How many of you saw the eclipse today?
Anybody in the past? Yeah, Paul did.
Yeah, pretty good.
We had totality here in Cleveland.
Who's that now?
This is Chris. We had totality in Cleveland, so it was dark for four minutes.
Um, Cleveland, Ohio?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's where you are, Chris.
What's that?
You're in Cleveland?
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why my video is not working.
Oh, yeah, I don't.
Why did I think that you were out west somewhere like Montana, Idaho, some?
I know we probably said something about that before, but for some reason,
I just had this perception you were out somewhere else.
Like out in the mountains or something.
No, it's not as flat here as Illinois, but it's pretty flat.
I think I lost sound. Everybody still there?
Yeah.
Yeah, we can hear you, Paul.
Okay.
It's okay.
Are we okay now?
Yeah, I can hear you now.
We could hear you before as well.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, no, we caught it from our front porch, and there was just, like, a magical parting of the clouds just, you know, for a few moments to actually see it.
We had cloud cover all day, and it was starting to break up a little bit, and we were like, oh, you know, we'll be able to see it maybe in a few minutes.
And it just, you know, didn't really start breaking up as much, and then some of the clouds would come back, and this was, you know, like hours before it.
And then right as I went out to do some errands and was driving back just to about 15, 20 minutes before, like, full eclipse, and I was like, oh, the sun's coming out a little bit.
You know, like, you know, it's, I think we're going to have some clearing, you know, and then I got to the house, and it was still cloud cover, and I could see some of the, you know, like, first, you know, covering of it.
And then, like, this huge big black cloud came through, and I'm like, covered everything up.
I'm like, you got to be kidding me.
And then right at the last moment for, I think, probably the minute and a half that it actually was fully eclipsed over my house, we had no clouds.
It was a full break.
That's great.
I was amazed.
And I'm wondering quite if, you know, if basically it was, if the rays are so intense at that moment.
I don't know.
I'm just thinking.
I'm just like, I don't know if that's scientifically accurate or not, whether it, like, would just part the clouds anyway.
I don't know if that's even true.
But it was just really very strange.
But we got a really good, beautiful look at full eclipse for, like, a minute and a half, right on my front porch.
So it was, I didn't really have to drive anywhere or do anything.
It was really cool.
But you got a solid four minutes, huh?
It was, like, I think it was about that.
Wow.
And it's, yeah, it is really interesting because it's, yeah.
It's amazing how bright the sun is.
It's amazing how much your eyes compensate.
And you can, like, you can kind of, like, feel that out because, like, it's hard to capture it on a camera because the camera shutter is, like, very relative.
You have to put it in manual mode, but even that doesn't really capture it.
Right.
It's just really interesting.
No, it's fascinating because right, like, at the moment of full eclipse, you know, I was looking at it.
I had some binoculars.
I had the safety glasses.
And I was just trying to, I was a combination of a lot of things.
It wasn't, like, just full-on looking at it for the whole time, you know.
But so I just take little glimpses of it, you know.
And.
And it was really obvious at full eclipse, you know, what was going on and the darkness and all that
That was just like really amazing and it was quiet
It was as quiet as I've ever heard earth. Yeah, it was
absolutely
Amazing. I think every animal stopped in its track every
Insect just did nothing and then of course
Everybody that's around this area was just like out
Doing nothing. So no cars were driving. No, I mean, it was just
eerily silent
really amazing and then um and
That I taught the time we had to look at but at the point where there was like, you know, like mostly like 80%
It's like the Sun came back out
But then I looked again through the glasses
And I could see that it was really still very much fully eclipsed. Yeah saying
It's astounding how bright the Sun is. Yeah, exactly
Realize it and it was just a little slumber
That was exposed and
That was so bright like as if the Sun was a full thing and it put to your natural eye
But then if you look with glasses
it was
Still very much eclipsed both, you know, obviously both ways on both sides of the the full eclipse and I was just like that is
amazingly cool
And what was really neat is that one night when I looked at it through binoculars
You can obviously see the halo and everything you could see all of the you know
As much as you can see as far as like, you know, the the flares and all that kind of stuff
But there was one there was one red spot or two red spots that like
Almost looked like they were light, you know, like you see a tower light off into the distance those red lights
You know, you'd see it like nighttime like on a tower like on a radio tower or something like that
It was almost like bright red
And it was just really interesting and fascinating all at the same time on the surface of the Sun
Yeah
Were you able to see the stars when it was complete covered I
Didn't uh-huh. I was able to see Venus when we probably had like 98% or 99%
Now it was just a few miles outside the total area
When you get off for the kind of looking up off to the right you see
Yeah, I think it was Venus just for that moment where it was completely covered. Okay, that's faded quick
Wow, and I would not have known where to look for Venus, but I think I still had enough cloud cover around
Yeah
Situation where you know, it was still pretty pretty cloudy
Relatively speaking in my area. So now but it was amazing. It's pretty cool. I wanted to definitely make sure I saw that
so
pretty cool guys, um
Hey, we had to you know, we need some we need some prayer for Jackie. She
Felt sick yesterday and was not feeling well for the last couple days kind of just thinking it was like
She'd worked out the other day Thursday or Friday
Thought she was muscle sore
Had a headache, which she doesn't ever have headaches ever
And but I said now you see you need to stretch, you know, stretch your back
you know because you're just getting like a tension headache or whatever and
And then that turned into a little bit of slight fever last night
And then this morning we were supposed to have
Another challenge of live challenge like we do
Almost every month and that was supposed to start today and we had to postpone it one day
We've never done that before in four years never postponed a live challenge
Like that and we've been through a lot of
technical and
business and health and family and
like environment issues
All the time when we have our challenges like
It's amazing when you try to live broadcast something and you like plan to do something
And it's a live brought not just to like a zoom meeting like that's you know, it's kind of casual
But when you're actually live broadcasting something
Everything in the world goes wrong. I don't know why it just happens every dang time
And it's your house right now
Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's like the other thing last night. It's just like yeah, we actually did um
Yeah, we actually did um that worked out
a lot better it's um
It's relatively drier here in austin. So I think
Just the climate
You know works for us in that way, but that's good. Oh my gosh, uh craziness ensues and so
anyway
She's still feeling pretty
Miserable today. I think she's going to be a little bit better tomorrow, but
So just be praying
for her guys so appreciate that appreciate your prayers for her and uh but we're gonna get into
boundaries tonight so um any questions you guys uh we're coming into we're trying to do a
boundaries um a couple weeks here uh going through uh week one and week two uh right now so um any
questions right now on the subject of boundaries kind of what we talked about last week
a couple things to review um so boundaries um help us define who we are and and um
and who we're not they also help us define what you own and what you don't own remember we talked
about last week we talked about i i like to think of it from a man's perspective i like to think of
it as a as a property now whether that property is you know an apartment size or whether that's a you
know a plot of like a house in a neighborhood or a couple acres or like a huge big piece of land
whatever whatever's just beyond i think what you think your capacity might be
um i think is healthy to think about in other words you've been given
a plot you've been given a lot you've heard that expression you've been given a lot in life
you know this is sort of your place so this is your a lot in life all of those lots
from person to person are very different in terms of size impact and so forth but it seems as though
everyone is given a measure whatever that measure is okay and so i'm going to let you sort of
imagine that but what i want you to imagine about that plot is not only it's it's physical
it's mental it's emotional and it's spiritual okay so it's not just a physical piece of land
but it's easy to think of a physical piece of land that represents your lot in life or your plot or
your sphere of influence if you want to put it that way and it's very important i think to look
to look at that and understand boundaries from that perspective
and remember i asked the question last week you know okay so you've been given this plot
say it is a piece of land the question is as a steward of what you've been given is is what are
you going to do with it you know you're going to build a homestead on it you're going to like the
song says you know put up a parking lot you're going to pave it and just pave it over just make
a parking lot out of it and sell spaces you know are you just going to pave it over so you don't
have to mow the lawn are you going to raise a crop on it all right i mean there's so many different
things you can do with this space that you've been given right and i think that is kind of like our
our lot in life we limit ourselves in so many ways because we think that oh we don't have
enough we don't have there's too many boundaries um you know we're bound in by this thing or that
thing we limit ourselves in this way when we don't take inventory of what we do have and go okay
how am i going to take this and and what am i going to do with it how am i going to how am i
going to make this productive it's very much in line with the parable of the talents right
the three individuals that were given the talents were given different proportions of talents
one was given one another was given five another was given ten and there are two couple different
variables of the story in in the gospels but they were all given different amounts right
and what the first two did with it the ten and the five the master rewarded according to what
they did with what they had and then the last one didn't do anything remember and was afraid
that the master was hard didn't do anything with it hit it and returned this very same talent to
the master and the master didn't just say oh well you know you don't get anything it hey he actually
called him a wicked servant very interesting and insightful what goes on in that parable there
And one of the lessons, there's many different lessons
to learn from that parable.
One of the lessons is that not only do you not
want to just not do something with what you've been given,
you want to make sure that you multiply it
and your lot or your influence or your space
has been given to you to make it productive.
So that's an invitation.
That's not a burden.
It should not be a burden.
As a man, that should be an invitation for you to say,
hey, you've been given this to do something with.
And a lot of guys, unfortunately,
do look at that as burdensome.
They look at it as, oh, this is something that I don't want.
It's either too much, too little.
It's not the right plot, this and that.
And it's kind of one of those things
that's where you don't really get to decide a lot what
the plot is, where it is, and so forth.
You're just given it.
You're given a set of abilities and talents and skills,
and you're awarded a certain place where you were born,
a place that you were raised.
A lot of those variables you have no choice in, right?
The color of your skin, your ethnicity, your background,
your biological history.
You don't have any say on what any of that is.
You're given this as your lot.
And what I'm here to encourage you today
is that your lot is really special, really good.
And it is definitely something that you
can make into something else.
And many people have, right?
We know tons of examples of people
that have taken what they've been given.
What does the old adage say?
When you're given lemons, you make lemonade,
all that kind of stuff, right?
So this is the kind of concept I want to get into your head.
We talked a little bit even about contracts,
like, for instance, contracts are a form of boundaries.
So this is a way to easily understand
what do contracts do for us?
They define the relationship.
They define who's going to do what in the relationship.
They define where the lines are crossed
as far as the financial obligations.
So that if you have difficulty in the business transaction
that the contract is outlining, it's easy to solve the problem
because you just go back to the contract
and you say, here's the boundary.
Here's what you were supposed to do.
Here was I was supposed to do.
And this makes it easier to resolve difficulties
when you have them.
Instead of arguing over things that he said,
she said, whatever, right?
Contracts give you a sense of definition.
So boundaries define who we are, who we're not.
They define what we own, what we don't own.
They find what you like and what you don't like.
They protect what's important to you
and who holds value to you and where you will put
your time and your resources.
So this is kind of like what I was saying in relationship.
If you look at your, like, I look at my marriage
as I have these boundaries.
And I don't try to micro control my wife
and what she can and can't do.
Now you might imagine like, oh my gosh,
you're married to Jackie.
Like how could you, I mean,
how could she be held down and controlled?
Well, she's not easily, I tell you that.
But I will tell you that I don't sit there
and try to make my life micro focused
on all the little areas where she is on my property.
I just make sure that the boundaries,
you see what I'm doing up at the screen here.
I'm just making sure that the boundaries are established.
That's where my responsibility lies.
What she does in all of this space,
all of this through the relationship is all hers.
It's all her ability.
We share the space.
It's all her to make beautiful, to make a garden,
to make a home, to make a family,
to establish relationships, to invite people in
and help people go out.
You see how in relationship,
especially marriage relationship,
the boundaries are established.
That's my job spiritually, emotionally,
naturally, physically.
We all understand you have a plot of land.
Someone walks on your land.
you know, and you're like defending your land.
That's, we easily get that as men.
But we also have to understand
that we are responsible emotionally
and spiritually for these boundaries, right?
That's where our domain lies, is those boundaries.
And inside of that boundaries,
there's a lot of things for us to do as a family
and as husband and wife and in our relationship.
A lot of corners to go to, a lot of places to go.
The same thing, I feel like what God gives us,
God gives us, I've often described this to my students
as God gives you a box and it's a pretty big box.
He doesn't give you a box, he gives you a box.
And in that box, there's a lot of things you can do.
You know, a lot of young people are always asking things
like, well, you know, what should I do?
And what should I, you know, they get asked the question
like, what do you wanna be when you grow up?
And what do you feel like you wanna do with your life?
And good Christian kids are like,
oh, I just wanna do what God wants me to do.
Like, yeah, God gave you a box with a big open space in it.
You need to fill it with stuff.
You need to like make something happen with that space
rather than trying to find out some specific thing
that's so difficult to figure out,
that it's a mystery and it's so hidden.
And it's like, oh my gosh, this is so difficult, right?
He gives you boundaries.
He said, okay, now go do this.
What does he tell Adam?
The same thing, gave him a boundary, gave him a garden.
Right?
He didn't give him the entire world,
he gave him a space on the world.
Pay attention to that.
He gave him a space on the world.
And he said, what?
Be fruitful and multiply.
Right?
Go and replenish the earth
and reproduce like after like.
And part of the stuff he was doing
in terms of the relationship,
I think it's interesting that God saw Adam doing his thing
prior to Eve being there.
What was Adam doing?
Does anybody remember?
Naming animals.
He was within the boundaries of his domain
and he was taking care of business.
He wasn't lying on the couch.
He wasn't like, you know, just chilling out, doing nothing.
He wasn't wondering where his spirit mate was.
He was actively doing what it was set before him to do.
He was busy about his actual purpose.
And noticed in that moment,
that's when God looked at that situation,
he said, this is not good.
I'm like, what?
Wait a minute.
Like, it is perceived, if you don't hear the story right,
that when God said, this is not good,
that he saw Adam like goofing off.
Adam being, you know, not who he was supposed to be.
Adam just sort of like being out on left field somewhere,
just not paying attention.
And God's like, oh, this is not good.
I got to give this guy a woman.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not what happened.
This is a revelation, guys.
Adam was doing what he was created to do.
He was literally fulfilling his purpose
as he knew it in the moment,
in his field of favor, in his space, in his domain.
And God said, yeah, I got to give this guy a wife.
I got to separate the genders and brought her out of him
and created female out of the male
and helped them to understand the beauty of relationship
by the give and the take
of the female and male relationship.
And he made it in such a way
that they would have to come together
in order to produce, in order to recreate,
in order to accomplish the initial mission,
which was what?
To be fruitful and multiply.
So powerful, this understanding,
when we start looking at it in terms of relationship
and boundaries and purpose, right?
So boundaries also help us
to solve any areas of confusion, right?
Like I talked about in contracts.
Boundaries don't just.
help you keep the bad out, they also help you keep the good in, right?
When you're a child, you know, like you're five years old, your parents were like,
don't run out on the street. What was the boundary? Like the sidewalk was probably the boundary,
right? It was keeping the good things in and keeping the enemy out. Okay. Any questions up
until this point? Anything that we want to sort of highlight? Anything that's coming to mind
right now, guys? Can I jump in? Comments. So, you know, like as you're talking about Adam being in
his created place, right? Like, you know, he was doing what he was supposed to do. And how often,
like, there's a verse, seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and everything else will be
added unto you. Like, you know, I don't know how many times God's told me, you worry about my stuff,
I'll worry about your stuff, right? And I think too often we're like, what about this? What about
that? It's like, no, I'm just going to keep doing what you tell me to do. And then let you bring
along or guide me to, I mean, if you're moving where he's telling you, he's going to be able
to guide you a lot easier than, you know, delivering it through the FedEx lady or something.
I don't know. Yeah. Yes, that's true. True, true. I like that.
Anything, anybody else? We're right in the middle of almost identical discussions and set in.
I think what's happening is we're about to be in discussions where we're actually
setting up and negotiating some of those boundaries and it's around,
you know, each of our callings, purpose, and our autonomy also at the same time.
And it's, boy, that's, you know, thinking about on these terms, it's really difficult for me
because it's like, so I have to ask her to give up some precious things in her life for me.
You know, who am I to do that? I know that's the nature of it somehow, but you
kind of smell what I'm stepping in. What are the things you feel like she has to give up for you?
Well, different states and towns. If when either of us is moving, we're talking,
you know, everything precious relationships, you know, as far as our missions and our purpose
for our design under the Lord, it's astounding how they fit and how they contrast and fill each
other out. But, you know, some of those things are, I don't know, who am I to even ask?
Who am I to even ask? Yeah. Now, in that regard, those are,
I would say, one-time issues that need to be worked out. Like, you know, if you're coming
into a relationship with someone and someone lives here, now someone else lives there,
and you're having to come to terms with who's going to move, who's going to move where,
and how is that logistically going to work? Obviously, there's things that are attached
to that relationships, other relationships, emotions, history, you know, experiences,
and so forth. Typically, someone in the relationship is going to relent one way or the
other, and usually comes down to very logistical, practical, and even financial reasons. Like, hey,
I have a house. You don't. Let's move into the house that I own or that I'm, you know,
having property, you know. Or I have a job that is very career-oriented. I make more
money than you do, and that's just, you know, and that could be man or woman.
Or the other thing is other family obligations. I have, like, if your children are still school
age, there might be a responsibility to school-age children that are still in school,
and so, therefore, I can't leave, literally, even by court order because maybe there's a
divorce decree that says, you know, the children have to be shared parenting, this kind of stuff.
So, those are those issues. Or even in the case of adult children or family that's around, it
might be like, I have no family, so I can go anywhere, or somebody that has a lot of, you
know, I'm saying. So, typically, those are resolved in that way, and obviously, you're going
to come down on one side or the other.
But at the same time, I feel like typically the man
keeps the boundaries simple.
And I feel like that females keep their boundaries
more complicated, as a general rule of thumb.
So I, in my relationship, just as the way I am,
I would try to probably be as compliant as possible
as the man, in terms of the flexibility,
up until the point of where I can't.
Like, literally, if I had a shared parenting agreement,
that was one of the things why we stayed in Ohio
as long as we did.
We both had a shared parenting situation
where we fulfilled that obligation with our children
and our other previous spouses.
And we literally could not move and, in a lot of ways,
move on with our life in the way we wanted to,
because of just deciding to blend our family
and raise our children.
So it wasn't until after our youngest,
and she actually graduated high school a year early,
that we really set out on really, really
wrapping our arms and our hearts and our minds
around the things that we do now with our lives.
So I'm not saying there's a season of waiting,
but sometimes there are things in your life that are like,
OK, this kind of has to be completed first.
If that's not those things, it's a matter
of just the give and take.
But I feel like, in general, that the male responsibility
of going with the whole boundaries thing,
I feel like that's very simplistic.
It's like a very basic structure, simple boundaries,
and flexibility, whereas females will have a tendency
to have a lot of little boundaries,
a lot of little regions within this bigger
boundary of the space.
I don't know if that helps to make any sense,
but I kind of think that's kind of where the roles go.
Does that make sense?
It does.
It just feels like this whole discussion is really
about personal autonomy, hers and mine.
And that feels like a boundaries discussion,
but I'm not sure if it is.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think there's part
of the initial logistics and relationship
that need to be worked out.
And those usually, sometimes they take some time,
and maybe it's obviously serious.
It's important to really take those things seriously
and make some good decisions the best you can.
But then after that, I think as you establish
the relationship, wherever that relationship is
going to be established, and I'm even
talking about the physical homestead, wherever that is,
and you're finally together, then
you're also there embarking upon the relational boundaries
of how your relationship works with one another.
And tonight, we're going to talk about some
of the problems of boundaries.
And maybe this will illuminate some things here.
There's a couple routes to some of the problems
within boundaries.
And if you want to write these down,
these are four areas where there's usually,
this is kind of where when you're having boundary issues,
this is where they come from.
They come from a compliant standpoint,
an avoidant standpoint, a controller standpoint,
and a non-responsive standpoint.
So when you have the problem of a compliant situation,
this is where a person or both persons in a relationship
are having trouble saying yes.
They have a tendency to say yes to bad things.
They allow things that aren't healthy,
aren't productive, that can cause damage or even harm
in the relationship.
And they tolerate or say yes to those things in relationship.
Did you have a question, Chris?
I was just going to say, would you say,
I mean, if we're both Christians seeking God,
is the situation you just described maybe
a little bit extreme?
Maybe is it?
just we don't speak up for certain things that we know are actually part of who we are?
Like if we just, if we're not in the realm of sin, if we're in that box that God gave us,
like we're, you know, like could you also say, could you go beyond compliant just being sin?
Could it be more like, I'm good, I just like ignore these issues that really get under my
skin, never bring them up, never discuss them, until finally you just kind of pop
because you're like, I've always given, I've never, I've given up who I am.
Yeah, so what I, in this discussion of boundaries, it's very important to
really step aside from like the area of sin in terms of outright spiritual
righteous disobedience. This really has more to do with human personality traits, behaviors,
you know, trends we have, habits that we have, that when we're coming into relationship that
we're not aware of. So I would say somebody, for instance, who's compliant or really with any of
these problems, a lot of individuals are not aware that this is a problem. Like for instance,
I'm trying to think of an example, maybe one will come to me, but I know that there have been things
where when I got into relationship with Jackie, that prior to relationship with her, this whatever
thing, it's no big deal. You know, it's like, what, what's the big deal? You know, like it's,
it wasn't sin. It wasn't like a, you know, a righteous thing. It was just like, I just do it
this way. Like I make the bed this way or whatever. Like, what's the big deal? Like to her, now that
I'm in relationship with her, all of a sudden, for some reason, I'm allowing something or I'm okay
with something that she thinks is like, oh, this is, this is not good. Not the right way. Yeah.
You know, that's just not, that's not the way I do it. It can be as simple as that.
Right. For some reason, I thought you specifically took it towards the sin perspective. And I was
like, wait a second. Isn't it this other stuff? I understand better. Yeah. It's really outside of
the realm of sin. And we're going to say like lots of grace. We're not going to really focus
on like, you know, who did what, whatever. And you like, you know, you betrayed me and all that.
It's really just more like in the relational sense of like two people coming together,
getting along. It's just like put it in that terms. So you've got the compliant, the avoidant
is a problem of saying no to good. Okay. This is, this is someone who is not willing to take,
you know, personal responsibility for, you know, their, their level of care or,
or stepping into something that is a wellbeing issue for them mentally, physically, spiritually.
Someone like, you know, guys, I think have tendency to do this sometime. Maybe not on this
call, but I mean, men in general, they're not as sometimes moving towards spirituality or moving
towards truth lots of times more than, than females, you know, females are like, you know,
especially in a church culture, you have a lot of females. They're like, they're after it. They're
like in prayer, they're loving it. They're like all about it. You know, they're like, oh yeah,
just tell me, tell me all the things I'm doing terrible. Let me just repent. And they're just
all about this spiritual, spiritual, spiritual, spiritual. And they're like, hold on, hold on,
hold on, hold on. Like, you're just too much all up in my business. Like, just leave me alone.
Like, just like, you know, like, let me put it like stiff arm to that, you know? And so sometimes
men have a tendency to sort of like be stiff arming spiritual development. Whereas women are
just like, oh, you know, just give it to me all day long. Now that's an overgeneralization and
a very huge stereotype, but it is, you do see it play out. So I'm just kind of giving you some
examples here. Voidant, saying no to good. The controller in a boundary situation or relational
crossing of a boundary situation, a controller is one who was not hearing the no
and not respectful of others' boundaries. So in other words, when you're in relationship
with someone and they're like, yeah, that crossed.
is my boundary. Like I don't, I don't enjoy that. I don't like
that. I don't, um, you know, particularly like it when you
just leave your clothes laying around all over the house. It's
not good for our relationship. And you're like, what's the big
deal? Like, is this a problem? I mean, I didn't have this
problem before I met you. But now all of a sudden I met you
and I can't leave my clothes laying around. And she's like,
yeah, it's a problem. And you're not continuing to hear this. And
you're, you know, you're not respecting the boundary that's
being laid out before you like as and we don't, you know, I
don't, you know, your wife comes into like, I don't keep an
untidy house. You know, I keep it, you know, picked up, I keep
it together and so forth. And you're like, okay. But if you're
not hearing that, and if you're not respecting that boundary, now
you're controlling the situation by allowing your debris to just
rule, rule the situation. Now, that's a very simple, sort of
like, you know, not big deal sort of situation example that
I'm making. But you can imagine how, when you're not hearing
somebody else's no, like, take it all the way to a really toxic
situation, where say, you're in a dating situation, or like, we
hear this all the time. Hopefully not in Christian
circles that I'm probably happens. But if somebody is, is
pushing themselves on you, like in a sexual way, and you're not
hearing no, and you're not respecting their boundaries,
you're a controller, right? You're fulfilling a controlling
personality. While you're trampling those boundaries,
okay? That's the controller. So these are roots of boundary
issues. So you got the compliant, you got the avoidant,
you got the controller, and then you have the non responsive.
This is this person that is not hearing the yes. Or they're not
receiving or understanding of others boundaries. They're not,
they're not reciprocating to the invitation to come closer to to
to be invited into the better. You know, they're just non
responsive, they're couch potatoing their life. Right? This
is the individual who is, let's say they're, they're just really
kind of just being insensitive. They're being uncompassionate.
Right? There are these are also the individuals that are
critical. Like, oh, you know, that's, you know, why would you
want to do that? You know, I was just kind of downplaying
everything, criticizing everything. Right? Just kind of
like putting things down, because they either don't want
to take responsibility, or they don't want to, they don't want
to come into like a better way. They're just always they don't
have any better ideas. They're just like your ideas. Not good
either. Make sense? Yeah. So that's the that's a non
responsive person. And so in this, when the when the person
that says they can't say no, the compliant person, usually the
reason where they're feeling what they're going through, is
they're feeling guilty and controlled by others. So when
you're compliant, the reason that you're usually compliant is
because you're feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling
controlled by others, or you feel guilty about how you've run
your life. So you just sort of like you can't set boundaries,
you just kind of go with whatever's happening. You can't
say no to whatever's being pitched to you. And the person
that can't say or can't hear no, the controller
Typically, they're aggressive or manipulative,
and they're violating the boundaries of others.
That's how it sort of comes out.
They can't hear no because of whatever frustration
that is setting them off.
Go ahead, Chris.
Would you say that sometimes that controlling persona
even comes from a good heart?
Is that like, they like really want,
they really think that they have something
that is in your best interest.
Right now, I'm having a hard time distinguishing
between manipulation and spiritual encouragement.
And there's times when I'm feeling manipulated,
and there's times I'm like, wow, she is amazing.
Like she was right again.
Like, I should just trust her more.
But then it's just like, so really pushy.
It feels really pushy and really frustrating.
But she seems to be so right.
Yeah.
And I'm like, am I that off?
Well, I go back to the broader boundary discussion
on those situations where it's like this, where you're here,
you're here and here,
and she's here, here, here, here, here, here, here,
all these things.
And so I know what you're talking about.
And I get it.
I understand it.
Where it comes down to, especially in relationship
between men and women, husband and wife,
in romantic relationship,
and even as you're heading towards
the ultimate commitment of marriage, okay?
Men and women in that relationship,
I think it helps for men to keep the boundaries simple.
And so it seems as though in a way that I'm asking
for men to be just compliant.
And in a lot of ways that, you know,
there's a lot of jokes surrounding like, you know,
like, hey, this is typical what men and women,
and like, when you say these jokes,
like every man goes, yep, that's exactly right.
It's exactly how it is and so forth.
You know, she's right, I'm wrong, all this kind of stuff.
And, but what's funny about that is
when the rubber meets the road,
it may be funny when you're always wrong
and she's always right in relationship in that way,
you know what I mean?
Like not always, but you know what I mean.
But when there's an intruder in the house
and you get your gun out
and you solve the problem of the intruder,
I bet she's really thankful then.
I bet you she's really thankful when you come to her defense
and, you know, you don't throw her under the bus
when somebody attacks her, like emotionally.
I bet you she really appreciates when you come home
and you are providing for, you know,
financially in the relationship,
I bet she appreciates that.
You know, so the bigger, I guess the bigger thing is,
is that again, these roles are buried in different
in our world today because not all men are the breadwinners
and not all, you know what I'm saying?
It's, you know, they do vary, but in general,
the relationship between the husband and the wife,
the man and the woman is like that.
It's like all the little details every day, all day long
that, you know, we're gonna, you know, come up against this
and whether it's, you know, you're coming to yourself
and you're going up, she's right again.
You know, I don't know what it is that she,
you haven't articulated exactly what she's right about,
but I can guarantee you,
it was probably some sort of like situational,
you know, relationship,
just very personal sort of like thing.
It wasn't a boundary issue.
It wasn't like, hey, where should we put the fence?
You know, you don't argue over that kind of stuff.
Because why?
Because women don't care,
just as long as their fence is there
and it's there and you're guarding it.
So the bigger thing is,
is I guess what I'm trying to say is,
is in relationship, if you can make the main things,
if you can make the main things, the main things,
it will become easier for you to navigate your relationship.
Because I feel like,
I feel like you're maybe you're putting a lot of weight
on things that may not be as essential as some things.
things. So if you're going back and like looking 10, if you're looking at 10 different arguments
or 10 different conversations or 10 different situations, and nine of them, she's right,
so to speak, and the one that you're right, I bet you the one you're right has a lot to
do with the larger, the bigger picture. You know, I'm saying, yeah, I'll just throw this
out real quick. But things started between us. She reached out a lot. She communicate
a lot. She admits it fully that she was fostering the relationship. She was carrying the relationship
because I was very cautious because I didn't really know what God was doing in me at that
point. And finally it came to a head and she's like, why don't you come down here and meet
my people? And I, and I basically said, Kate, like, you're amazing. I don't know what's
going on, but I do not feel released right now. And I, at that point, this may have been
kind of crazy, but she was facing this something and I, and maybe this confused things. I think
it was the right thing to do, but it's going to sound a little confusing at that point.
I even forwarded, I, I, right then I sent her $1,400 for a department deposit. I was
like, I value you. I think you're amazing. I don't know that I feel peace to pursue this
right now. And then she comes back with like, just come down. It's not a big deal. We're
just getting to know each other. We're just meeting each other. We're just, and that's
the kind of set a tone where she's been the one pushing, pushing, pushing. And I've learned,
I've learned so much from her. I've grown so much, but I'm just like, and we're basically
in a position where she, like, I have everything that you listed off, family contacts, house,
job, you know, and it's kind of like, I don't think that she could survive a winter in Cleveland,
Ohio. So it's like, we couldn't really live here. I don't think.
Yeah, no, it sounds like you would definitely have to, like in, in a very worldly sense,
give up a lot of stuff. But at this, at the same time, you know, like, what is that a
comparison to, you know, a great relationship? And, you know, the fact is, is that women
do that, what you're saying, they, especially at, you know, it's not like you're like 16
or 18, 20 years old, you know, this woman is like, Hey, are we going to do this or not?
And women do that at that age and older, they're like, look, you know, I don't have time to like,
sit here and wait around. This is a good thing. Like we like each other. We, you know, we, we,
uh, we have a lot of things going in the same direction. You know, it's just kind of like a
list. Like remember a couple weeks ago, we were talking about that list, you know, like you have
all these things. It's like, what's, what's holding you back, you know, type thing. So it's just kind
of like, I think that's kind of like what you're up against more than really it is like a boundary
issue. I don't think you're running into more of a boundary issue in relationship as much as you are
just the initial, like, you know, am I going to do this or not with this person? So I don't think
you've even, I don't even think that you've got into the boundaries of relationship with this
person yet, because, you know, you've, you know, you're struggling to define the relationship
period, you know, and you know, nobody, nobody can tell you, yes, this is it. Do that. That's,
this is the relationship. I mean, obviously you have to decide that you have to come to that
conclusion, but it sounds like every time you speak of this person that it's like pretty much
all green lights, except for this red light that goes off in my head that nobody else sees.
You know what I'm saying? I kind of feel like that's what you're coming up against. And so
that's something to ask yourself the questions. It's like, why am I getting this red light in my
head? But nobody else sees you got to begin to trust a little bit, you know, of other people
that are around you. They're like, yeah, this is what's wrong with this relationship. You know,
I don't know if that helps or not, but I mean,
I think, I think, I don't think you're in the boundary issues of, of personal relationship yet.
Except for the fact, like, if she wants to leave, she can leave, but the pushing, pushing, pushing
is a little bit, that's what I'm getting at. Yeah. I mean, and that's just, you know,
you feel like you're being pushed.
being forced into saying something yes or no.
And you kind of are.
And that's kind of normal.
And that's kind of like expected in this situation.
But at the same time, you are the one that
does get to say yes or no.
And depending on your yes or your no
will determine what happens, not only what happens next,
but what you have to live with.
You feel like it's moving too fast, Chris?
No, it's not moving too fast.
OK, thanks.
Can I ask you a question?
Yeah, and Paul, that's a good question.
I didn't ask that because I kind of know Chris's situation
a little bit more.
So yeah, yeah.
But that's a really good question.
I mean, because obviously, just hearing it,
you're like, oh, wait a minute.
Is this a new relationship that's
unfolding in two weeks?
No, this has been going on for some time.
Thank you, though.
Who else was going to ask a question?
I was, just a question.
Are you an avoidant relationship personality type?
Yeah, and so I'm kind of ticked at God
because I'm like, for crying out loud, this is not easy.
You're asking me to give up my job, my church,
my being in driving distance from my family
to pursue a relationship with someone that, at this point,
I don't even really look at and be like, I want to be with you.
But basically, we're talking about it right now.
And it's like, if this is going to go forward,
we have to be in the same place.
And she's willing to transition temporarily.
She's willing to give it a go in person temporarily.
And I just have to decide if I'm willing to say yes.
And you're giving up, like you're giving up,
you're literally giving up career because it's just not
career.
Not career, employment location, like company location.
Yeah, no, I understand.
I understand that there's seemingly a lot at risk
here for you, like in that way.
And it's not so much a risk.
It's very difficult emotionally.
It's very difficult to like, why can't it be fun and easy?
But such is life.
Yeah.
No, I mean, it's one of those things where like,
and I don't mean to make, you know.
We can move, we should probably move on.
I don't know, but I'll just make this comment.
I felt, I have felt.
I'll just make this comment, that is that usually
the things that are worth, you know,
worth doing hard things for, they're
the things that are the most rewarding, you know.
And that may be a little bit of this situation, you know.
And I love Mike's comment.
Look at Mike's comment.
It says, look at what you would gain as well.
You can't, you cannot.
That's a really good perspective, Mike.
Thank you for that.
Is you cannot look at this as just like what you're losing.
You also have to look at what you're gaining.
And, you know, stepping into relationship
isn't always like just counting the costs,
like the pros and the cons.
But it is worth looking at because, you know, it's true.
Like, what have you been missing all of your life
at what age you're at now?
You're 40 years old and you've missed this part of your life
in terms of the relationship, building a family,
all that kind of stuff.
And you're like, is this my opportunity
to not miss that anymore?
In spite of how emotionally difficult it might be.
That's a big question, you know.
But I think sometimes it helps to bring that in clarity
and have the question before you
rather than just dancing around it.
Like, that's the big question.
And I'm gonna focus in on that.
I'm gonna drill down on that.
And then you start limiting some of those things.
It's like, okay, well, if you're gonna go down the list
of the things that, you know,
I'm having to give up, quote, for this relationship,
you have to start drilling down further
into each one of those things
and how important each one of those things are.
And you may find yourself eliminating a few of those things.
And like, okay, this really isn't, this is kind of hard,
but it's really not that big a deal now that I think about it
and now that I really uncover it and unpack it.
So you're trying to eliminate some of those things
to take them off your list
so they're not such a huge barrier
to what it is that you said that you wanted,
which is marriage relationship as a family and all that.
Yeah.
All right.
I wanna get into,
I'll get into some more of this other stuff here
on boundary stuff.
There's,
10 laws of boundaries that are worth going over,
but I won't go over those tonight.
So the biggest thing, guys,
when we talked about can't say no, can't say yes,
and also can't hear no and can't hear yes,
you've got the compliant that can't say no,
you've got the controller that can't hear no,
you have the non-responsive that can't say yes,
and you have the avoidant that can't hear yes.
Okay, that's how you're like, you know, clarifying those.
The inability to do those things
is rooted in unexamined feelings.
They're rooted in the things that you're not aware of.
Okay, they're rooted in the things,
like feelings that come from the experience.
This is where you're getting into the heartwork.
This is where the heartwork begins to reveal
the things that have happened to you
that expose why you feel the way you feel
about certain issues and certain things.
Like, and we always relate it to pain points.
If you're frustrated, if you're angry, if you're sad,
if you're anxious, if you're confused,
all of these things are feelings that are precipitations
of what's happening deeper inside of you.
And so the heartwork is the work of allowing Holy Spirit
to reveal the why behind those things
so that you can get healing.
And a lot of those things are rooted
in individual certain experiences.
They might be rooted in childhood traumatic experiences,
relational traumatic experiences,
parental, like, you know, being parented inappropriately
and family traumatic experiences.
So that's why the heartwork goes back and says,
okay, first of all, we're allowing Holy Spirit permission
to just examine our heart,
because the heart is where we keep all of this stuff.
And so it's not about trying to find out,
ooh, where's all your sin at?
It's really just trying to allow you to examine your heart
so that you can reveal the things that are there,
that are traumatic and get healing from them.
Once you have healing in those areas of feelings
and areas of trauma,
then you're able to step into
a boundaried relationship situation
in a much more healthy and productive way.
So that's the essence of why we even study boundaries
to begin with, is that we know that there are boundaries
that need to be established in relationship.
We know that in order to work in relationships,
we have to have boundaries,
my boundaries, her boundaries, and so forth.
We have to understand why we don't respect boundaries
and why we trample boundaries and why we don't hear
and why, you know, depending on what side of the frame
we land on, but the inability to respect and set boundaries
has its roots in these unexamined feelings.
And so I think next time we'll get into some
of these feelings and get into some of the heartwork
that's associated with having healthy boundaries.
That make sense to everybody?
Good, good.
Any other questions, guys?
Could you say that last line one more time, the inability?
The inability to respect and set boundaries
has its roots in unexamined feelings.
David, do you have like a cheat sheet
on those four things we went over?
I mean, you kind of, the compliant,
avoidant, controller, non-responsive?
Yeah, I do.
Let me do this real quick.
Two things, I'll just do a real quick screenshot here
and I'll share it with you.
And I will put that in the,
here's the chat.
Okay.
Did you do.
Okay.
I need to upload that let me just do this real quick.
I'm not really.
Okay.
Give me a second.
Okay.
Copy and paste that if you want to.
Or take a screenshot of that or however you want to do that.
That makes sense guys.
At first I thought they all just sounded like issues of respect but I think it sounds like it's deeper than that.
Well, it's, it does have to do with you and the other person so if it's a matter of respect.
It's a matter of not respecting other people's boundaries one way or another.
And it's also your inability to set proper boundaries one way or another.
You set too many too many too firm boundaries, or you don't set boundaries at all.
You know I'm saying are the extreme you know those are two extremes, versus.
You don't hear or understand other people's boundaries, or you see them but you just ignore them. So that's those are two extremes on that side.
So it is about respecting and also big setting boundaries, going both ways.
So, you get the compliant avoidant controller and then the non responsive so it's in that kind of in that paragraph there.
I will pass along some of these, some of these, some of these slide information for you as well.
that would be helpful to you all to kind of post them in the group for you.
And hopefully under this video. Okay.
Okay.
All right, God bless guys have a great night.
And again we have your prayers for Jackie. I want her to be well.
And want her to be able to feel like she can do what she needs to do tomorrow.
And starting off that challenge and this is going so.
Love you guys.