Okay, welcome guys.
I'm so excited to get to share with you the divine masculine and divine feminine teaching.
I think this is a really great topic because I feel like the secular world has had a lot
to say about what it means to be divinely masculine and divinely feminine, and it's
gotten a lot of hippy dippy woo woo stuff going around with it.
I loved Jackie's teaching on this so long ago, and then I took notes on it because it
was so good, and then she had me start teaching it when she wasn't around, or at least now
talking more about it because I think it's such a strong topic.
You guys are going to not only learn about masculine, but you're going to learn about
the feminine side too, which is so good because you might be like, oh my gosh, this is the
holy grail of information that I've been looking for.
Now I think I'll maybe understand women.
There's a little part in the beginning, I would love your open feedback, and definitely
the whole way through.
Make sure that you ask questions, give your thoughts.
Mike, I know you will.
You can't help yourself, but I'm just kidding, I'm just messing with you.
I will be happy to put these notes up on your page so you have them, the handy dandy little
mixture of notes on there so you don't have to furiously write, but it would be great
for you to do so.
And Hunter, out of all of the men, I appreciate that I get to see your face because it's really
hard talking to four names, or six names, and Ty's like, I'm back, I'm back.
Okay.
Father God, I just have to be with us tonight that anything I say tonight may be only holy
spirit driven, and whatever I'm supposed to say, let me say it.
Whatever I'm supposed to forget to say, let me forget it.
And Father God, just let the men just receive with open arms and open hearts and open ears,
and contribute to the conversation so that we can just continue to bring unity in the
community.
In Jesus name, amen.
Okay.
So I'm so excited about this.
So when Jackie first talked about it, she had us go all the way back to the Garden of
Eden when God first created man and women.
So first, obviously he created man, and I love that he created man, and he waited until
man named all of the animals, right?
Could you imagine how long that must have taken?
I don't know.
That was a long time.
And how did he come up with stuff?
And then he decided that man should not be alone.
And what I love about that, you guys, the fact that God alone in the Trinity, and I
don't know if you guys knew this, you probably did, but I grew up with a denomination.
I just kind of believed that God existed first, then Jesus existed when he was born, and then
of course he lived in heaven with God afterwards.
And somewhere in there, the Holy Spirit showed up, but he only showed up here and there in
the Old Testament, really didn't show up for good until he came for us to help us.
And so like, I never really understood the Trinity in its fullest nature, and I never
understood how the Trinity always preexisted.
Like God, and I've heard so many analogies of God, Father, I mean, God, Son, and Holy
Spirit, ice, water, mother, daughter, sister, like I've heard all the terms, but I think
all of them just kind of pale because God is God and he's not human, and we just try
hard.
We just try, we try to put God in a box.
But we know that, you know, God danced, you know, the Greek term is perikiosis, and it
talks about the dance of the Trinity, that there's no one taking the front stage more
than the other person.
So it's not like God, Son, Spirit, but it's like this, it's just constantly rotating.
And I think by the fact that he put Adam to sleep and he said, gosh, even Adam shouldn't
be alone.
I'm not alone, and I'm God.
And so Adam's not gonna be alone, and he pulled a rib from his side.
And so I love that the intention right from the get-go is supposed to be this partnership
with one another.
And I suspect he wanted the same kind of dance with divine masculine and feminine that he
does with the Trinity, that there are times that the divine masculine shines, and that
there are times that the divine feminine shines.
And it doesn't mean it's this hierarchy, but it's more like a circle, and a circle of this
dancing kind of rotation.
Of course, you know, Adam did have this original role of being her protector and her provider
in the beginning.
And Eve had an original role too.
She is actually called the Easer, and the Easer is represented.
It is mentioned 19 times in scripture.
The only other time,
every other time that Ezer is mentioned,
it's in description of the Holy Spirit.
And so it is meant to be the warrior.
So, you know,
our English translation has just destroyed it.
Like we're the helper, we're the help mate.
And it's like, you just think like, you know,
Batman and Robin, like you just think the sloppy sidekick,
you know, picking up the slack.
And so there was a really supposed to be
this divine masculine provider protector
with this divine feminine,
which was warrior and help mate.
So this great partnership,
it was probably supposed to dance.
And along comes the serpent.
And, you know, I always grew up believing that
Eve was like alone with the serpent,
was like somewhere tilling the ground,
doing something macho.
And she gets fooled by the serpent,
then trots over seductively to Adam
and gets him to have the apple.
And he's just the innocent bystander of all of this.
But scripture kind of makes it seem like he's right there.
He's right there in the garden with her.
So the first thing that Adam fails to do
is really protect her.
And we see no conversation where he's like,
dude, you're just full of crap.
Like, why are you saying that to her?
Like, she's my gal.
I got her covered.
Eve, let's get out of here.
Like, there is none of that exchange.
So she takes it.
But then here's what she does.
She gives the apple to Adam.
And here was his mistake.
So her mistake was kind of believing the lie, right?
She believed, well, and here was it in.
He gave a lot of truth wrapped in some lies.
And that's how the enemy works with us.
He never just gives us an outright lie.
The enemy doesn't show up in a pitchfork in red.
Like we would know what that looks like.
And we would all say heck no to that.
But he comes in like the angel of light.
He makes it look good.
And so he made it look good to Eve.
And then she in turn was able to make it look good to Adam.
And this is the first time we see
that Adam was more concerned with meeting her needs
than following God's law.
And so that is almost like the fall of man, right?
Like the fall of man.
So in the fall of her, she believed the lie.
So the divine feminine is very likely to believe the lie.
She's more likely to believe the lie.
Men, you are more likely to sometimes
wanna please her more than follow God.
So we kind of each have our weakness
that's showcased in that moment.
And so that's when the fall begins.
And so then here comes God, you know,
so of course they sin.
And then here comes God.
My favorite line of scripture where he's like,
so where is everybody?
Y'all know he knows where they are.
He already knows what they've done.
And, you know, he says, you know,
Adam says, we're naked.
We had to hide and we're naked.
And I actually had a whole entire,
I used to run a nonprofit.
And one of my gala themes for the year
was called Who Told You That?
And it was apples everywhere.
Although I went to Israel only to find out
that it probably was not an apple.
It was probably a fruit more like a fig,
like a fig from a fig tree that was much more apropos
for the land of that area.
But anyway, the first thing that Jesus or God says
is who told you that?
Like he knows, but he wants them to recognize
who told them the lie.
And so of course, you know,
and that's the minute the blame game happens.
So they each had their initial sin,
but then the blame kind of happens.
They're both like, well, she made me eat it.
He didn't protect me.
And so from there forward,
we have gone forward with our sin
of more quickly blaming each other
than taking a look at our own side of the street.
And you guys know that I think,
I think that David already did the boundaries teaching
that I teach.
I gave him some of my notes on it.
And, you know, a lot of times our lack of boundaries
and healthy relationships with one another
has to do with us not owning our side of the street
and taking responsibility.
So that happens right from the get-go.
And ever since then, part of the curse
has really been this unhealthy relationship
and role between men and women ever since.
So what happened for many years, man's like, man,
I'm just not gonna ever be taken advantage of
by a woman again.
And so there starts this hierarchy, right?
And women are treated, I mean,
if you look through all of the Old Testament,
women are treated like property.
And they're, you know, they're,
and even when Jesus talks about some stuff
in the New Testament,
even when he's like talking about divorce,
he's really trying to do it at the protection of.
woman, when he says you can't get divorced for these, these, these, and these reasons,
because in his time, men could like get divorced from a woman for just burning the toast.
Like he could just walk away from her, go take on another wife, something could happen
to her, and then he could walk back home and go back to the first wife, and she was supposed
to have just been sitting there waiting for him.
So we have centuries and centuries of this patriarchy where like the man was kind of
on top.
Then of course the feminist movement go hundreds of years later, you know, we have the feminist
movement and a lot of good stuff happened in that for the women to not be property,
women have the right to vote.
But it's almost like y'all have seen it, like the pendulum swung way in the other direction.
Even in the sixties, in the 1960, 1970, like I just remember that commercial, you know,
oh my gosh, it was that stupid Charlie perfume music where it's like women can bring home
the bacon fried up in a pan and, you know, and be like really seductive with her man
all in it.
It's like, so this idea became that women could be a wife and a mom and have a career.
She could do all of the things.
And so it was great and it wasn't because it really set her up to take on the divine
masculine, take on a lot of masculine attributes.
Like she can be as good as a man, she can think like a man, she can act like a man,
she can dress like a man.
And so it kind of reverted the other way and a lot of women wanted nothing to do with men.
And so, and then when you guys, we've really seen it kind of go haywire in the last, I'd
say five to 10 years.
And I say this as a woman who has run a woman's ministry for many years, I say this as somebody
and I'm going to be really blunt here to make my point because I'm really trying to
be protective of women and men, but even a part of the Me Too movement.
And I say this as a woman who's been through sexual assault.
We have gone to such a length that we've now kind of pigeonholed all men into like this
patriarchy, male dominated, awful being that needs to be taken down and that any woman
at any time is just has to be assumed correct.
And so it's like, we've just really hit this pendulum, right?
So women went from being like subservient, then we wanted to get on top.
And so we had to do that by emasculating men.
And I say that because you guys, I know so many of you have a story and I've met so many
men.
For as many women in our program that have an ex-husband that was a narcissist or abusive
or a cheater or was into porn, we have an equal number of men, in my opinion, who have
been verbally abused, emasculated in any other way taken down by their wife.
And so we have two very broken, hurt kind of people kind of doing that.
And now in more recent years, I feel like the enemy is just out to rob identity altogether.
The enemy knows that when we're fully divinely masculine and fully feminine, we are too created
man and female.
Like whoever thought we would question male and female, but here we are, we are in a world
where we are not defining gender at all.
It's like, there are so many acronyms now and so many definitions.
You guys, when I see like profiles, I have to look up half the words because I'm like,
I don't even know what you just said, but like, I'm not a male or a female or I'm choosing
to be a female, but not because of a vagina or not because of a penis and I'm going to
be attracted to somebody not because their genitalia is crazy making.
All of this is, all this transgender talk, all of this identity talk goes back to the
garden.
It's like, we didn't want this hierarchy and we didn't want this hierarchy.
So now we're throwing away both hierarchies and we're now just going to be non-identity.
And I think that we're going right back to the garden.
And we know that the only solution and the only true answer to this is to go back to
the divine masculine and feminine that God originally intended for us.
So hope you enjoyed that little journey down our history lesson and I did it justice for
what Jackie did.
So I want to hear a little bit about, I'm actually going to ask you guys both, when
you think about what does it mean to be masculine?
What words do you think, not God, but what words do you think that the secular world,
the general world uses when they describe masculine?
And you guys can come off mute and just popcorn out.
Toxic.
Thank you.
Would you say the toxic toxic masculinity is yeah, so men are toxic. That's good. That's not a
Thank you.
Patriarchal
In a negative way
Sure now, but what other words like think of like a dominating
dominating domineering
aggressive loud
powerful
Assertive pushy
I
Was gonna say be violent like what like a war like a war hero like a warrior sort of thing
Yeah, at least that's how I grew up. I also think a lot of society
attributes it
to
tall men
strong men big men
wealthy men
Right, like the women have a view not godly women
But women have a view of what makes a masculine man. Like he's a he's a hunter
He can kill stuff and he can fix my TV. You can fix up
And he better have dogs and big dogs and not cats right like I'm just trying to think of all the
Stereotypical things that you guys like then maybe you can even just share words that women have used to describe you or not you
To make you feel like you're not as masculine because you don't fit that mold
Any other thoughts I know it's hard for you to speak up
All right, well
All right, so I shared a whole bunch
So now I want you to describe what you think the world thinks of when they think of the word feminine
or what you
outward beauty on the outside
Okay, say more
Say more about what you think the world thinks of as feminine
Graceful delicate
Um, yeah
Slim doe-eyed disney princess
Yep
thin tall
blonde
long fingernails lots of jewelry pretty makeup
Wearing barely anything on
and
Barely anything on or any skin tight apparel big boobs, right? That's feminine big boobs big butt
I should say
Well, so the good news is
Everything we just described as divinely masc or is masculine and feminine is not what god intended
So here are the attributes. Do you guys want me to do the men's list or the female list first?
Would you would you like i'll let you i'll let you pick
Men's is fine
Okay, so we're going to talk about the qualities that y'all should be striving after a little bit about what they need
And then i'm going to read to you the divine feminine list because this is what you should be looking for
um
When you're looking for your gal
Now mike this might counteract what we talked about last week, right?
Remember we talked about like well, but what if she's not like i'm not attracted to her
So I think that for both sides male and female if we start to look for these attributes somebody that we thought was
Okay
Can all of a sudden get pretty hot now? I don't think we have a massive conversion
Right, but I think if you're like, hmm
i'm intrigued
Not really my type, but i'm really intrigued and if we look at some of these internal words
Then we might be able to see some more of that. Okay
So i'm going to tell you what the word is that jackie gave us but i'm also going to tell you
What an overuse of that gift is right?
So does anybody kind of understand that like I don't believe that they're just strengthened strengths and weaknesses
I think sometimes we have strengths and I think sometimes we have an overuse of that strength
Which looks like a weakness because we just you're overusing it
Just like you can overuse a muscle group at the gym and you can strain yourself. You can overuse a gift
And it can go awry
All right
So the first item for the men is that you are to be the order keeper
So you are supposed to kind of look to keep things in order now
That doesn't mean that you are anally organized, right?
So this is not just for like the type a like number crunchy kind of people but you can look at a situation
You can look at chaos
And it's your job to help bring order
Right bring order
So order is not just organized but it's like you kind of see
the chaos
And because you can be a little less driven by your emotions than women, it is why you're
able to keep order, because you can kind of get a little bit of a level head.
Now what that doesn't mean, so what do we think an overuse of order keeper can look
like?
Budgeting, finances.
Well, no.
Controlling.
No, that's actually a good thing.
Controlling.
Who's that controlling?
Paul?
I did.
Yeah.
So that's where an overuse of order keeper can come across as controlling.
Like I'm going to control the situation so much that nothing bad happens, but the problem
is you don't allow for grace, you don't allow for free will, especially in a dating relationship.
You may want to keep order, however, sometimes it can look like domineering and controlling.
Y'all, I was just on the receiving end of that in my last relationship, and I would
argue is one of the biggest reasons why I had to end it.
Because when you get so controlling that someone can't breathe or make any choices, it's suffocating.
So if you start to feel like, if a woman tells you you're suffocating her, you have taken
order keeper too far.
Okay.
So order keeper.
The second word is defender.
You are her defender.
You are the, oh my gosh, what's the guy's name in Braveheart?
William Wallace.
Thank you.
You are William Wallace.
You are meant to defend her honor.
You are meant to, again, it's in that protector kind of role.
So you are meant to defend her and just be the one to kind of stand and be her shield
and defend her.
Awesome.
How can defender be taken too far?
If I not, if a guy that I accused as being a jerk to her and I knock him upside the head
and beat him up like in a violent sense, and look, I brought a scalp as our anniversary
gift.
Awesome.
Okay.
Totally.
The Lord does not want you to resort to violence as you defend unless she's being violated.
And then you can kick the shit out of them.
I'm just going to say.
Nope.
Not respecting her voice.
Ooh, very good.
Very good, Paul.
Awesome.
So defending her, making sure she's in a situation where she needs to be defended or wants to
be defended.
You know, sometimes she might need to stand her ground on a situation and, and find her
own voice.
So you want to make sure that when you're defending her honor, you are protecting her,
but you're still giving her her voice.
Okay.
The third, the third item that we are looking for in a divine masculine is the dispenser
of justice, dispenser of justice.
So it's just, it's somebody who's going to want to make the situation right, a divine
man.
So not even just in a male female relationship, but you're at the store and you see somebody
being treated badly, or you're out in the street and you're seeing like discrepancy,
you're seeing something unequal, you're seeing nepotism, you are the dispenser of justice.
And so, you know, it is, it is again, and I think dispenser of justice, my suspicion
is this is divine masculine trait because it also takes somebody to be emotionally removed
from a situation.
So when, if women say to you that you're not emotional enough, there's actually a good
reason why you're not, you were not meant to be the divine feminine.
You are supposed to have emotions, but you're not supposed to be driven by them so much.
And that's where the dispenser of justice can kind of come in, that you can have an
objective eye.
When can the dispenser of justice go awry?
What does that look like?
When you're perverted and play favorites.
Well, sure, but then that wouldn't be justice, right?
Then that's nepotism.
What were you going to say?
Who else had their hand raised?
About when you get involved in stuff that you really just shouldn't be involved in.
Oh, that's good.
That's good.
Sometimes it's not your monkey, not your circus, right?
Like sometimes that's so good, Ty.
It's so good because I'm guilty of doing that.
I'm such a justice girl.
Like it has got me in trouble sometimes.
I used to be on staff at a church in Connecticut and I was always looking out for the little
dog at my own expense.
Like we had a female pastor and a female janitor on our staff at the same time get pregnant.
And the maternity package that we gave the pastor
was grossly five times in time, money, everything
than what we gave the janitor.
And I feel he couldn't, I couldn't sit with that.
It was just wrong.
What did we do?
In my defense, I was the business administrator.
So HR did fall under me.
But y'all, I got labeled by some elders of,
you wanted to take Pastor Conaty's maternity leave
away from her.
I'm like, no, that is not what I wanted to do.
I wanted to give Clara as much as we were giving Conaty.
That's all I was trying to say.
And it didn't help that she was an immigrant.
I'm like, OK, she's the janitor and she's an immigrant.
What are we doing here, people?
But I was such a dispenser of justice.
So that's a really good tie.
Sometimes it's not our battle to fight.
Another example.
No, I can't, I can't do this.
But let's just say I was in a recent situation
where somebody was trying to, somebody was,
a male person was trying to display some justice
and it was just inappropriate, ill-timed.
And all I could think about was this other staff person
that he was just very upset with.
It was the end of her shift.
She probably had a bad day.
And I was like, we just need to give this girl some grace.
Like sometimes it's okay to give grace.
Like sometimes it's not about right, wrong.
It's not about black and white.
Sometimes we need to extend mercy and grace.
And sometimes it's not about justice.
Okay, the fourth one is men are meant to be the provider.
So we don't just mean financial provider,
but we mean the provider.
And so when can being a provider go awry?
It doesn't seem like that one could ever go awry,
but when can a provider go awry?
Um, what do you got Hunter?
Well, I think it's not just financially,
but give her a gift.
Like, and I don't mean a gift just to cover up
or just to manipulate,
but make a gift to make her show that you care.
But it's not so much-
You just mentioned how provider can go awry.
So thank you for giving that example.
Because if you buy her gifts or spend money on her
to manipulate her or control her choices,
that would be providing with bad intent, right?
Like, I bought that for you.
I did that for you.
So you owe me sex.
So you should be nice to me.
So you should X.
And so we want to make sure we don't provide
with ulterior motives.
Awesome.
Well, another thing with the gifts too.
I remember my last level three date,
I was on financial constraints.
I barely gave enough because I was trying to make,
hold onto my emergency savings.
She gave me a big Christmas gift and everything,
but I didn't communicate well with her.
It's like, what's with the gift?
I understand, but we haven't spent much time communicating.
Basically, communication gifts have to go hand in hand
for a provider to go out, to come out right.
Yeah, for sure.
I think you'd be stifling too,
not allowing the person to provide for themselves
to a certain degree.
Very good job.
That doesn't sound like.
Kind of a little lack of respect there, I guess.
You want the provision to feel like it's a blessing
and it's above and beyond,
but if you start to do it too much,
especially if she's been independent for a long time,
she might feel, or she's a mother,
she might feel like,
are you implying that I can't take care of my kids
or I can't take care of myself?
Although I personally,
if y'all want to spend money on me and provide for me,
I've been taking care of myself long enough.
I'd be happy to hand the reins over to somebody else.
And that's just it.
I'm just kidding.
But I will say this,
that brings up a good point though.
Not every woman you see
is gonna want the same level of provision.
We don't know what her culture is.
We don't know what her background is.
We don't know what her past relationship is with her ex
and how many and provision was used for or against her.
And so you need to find that out
before you just shower her with provision.
Yeah, if you provide too much, you remove her out.
Hunter, lay it down, lay it down.
Okay.
What were you gonna say, Paul?
Or was it Ty?
Paul or Ty?
No, it was me.
I was gonna say,
like if you become too much of a provider,
you remove a person's individuality.
Okay, very good.
Very good.
I love it.
That's good.
Okay, five, number five,
you are to be her covering.
So that kind of goes with the defender,
but that covering is really like
she is under the shadow of your wing.
And that really is different than some.
So subservient and making her be too submissive is a good example of the overuse of that.
And there is a hierarchy of submission for a husband and a wife, but while you are still
in level two and even level three dating, you shouldn't expect the same kind of submission
that you would in a marriage relationship.
And the covering means you're just kind of protector.
When I think of a covering, I think of the guy showing up with the umbrella.
That's what a covering is.
And when you show up with the umbrella, she's still standing next to you.
You've not put her under your foot.
She's still by your side, but you're protecting her.
So that's the covering and what that looks like.
Again, I think we can already tell that an overuse of that would just feel like you're
smothering her and you're treating her like a child.
Like that's the thing.
You want to make sure you don't cover her in a way that you start to talk to her or
speak to her in a way that you would talk to your child.
Okay.
The next one is loyalty.
A divine masculine is loyal.
He is loyal.
And so it means he says what he means.
He means what he says.
He's clear about what he's saying.
He's not wishy-washy.
He's not going to cut and run at the first argument or the first like impasse.
And he's not going to talk badly about her.
You guys, there's nothing that I find more unattractive in both men and women when they
crap on their significant other in front of people.
Like I've seen married people...
How many of us, right?
We've all seen people do it.
I've seen married people do it.
I've seen dating people do it.
And it makes me very uncomfortable.
I get that there's going to be some times that you guys disagree with each other and
you may...
It may happen in front of people, but there is no need to dog on each other or dog about
each other either with them sitting right there or with them not away.
And I hope that you have good friends.
If you start dogging on your ex or on your girlfriend or your wife, that they're going
to be like, Hey, that's just not appropriate.
Like I hope you have friends that would call you out on it.
I hope I don't have girlfriends.
If I'm really pissed at the guy that I'm with and I'm venting about him, I hope that I don't
have girlfriends that are like, Man, men suck.
Men are douches.
Men can't do anything or men never take responsibility.
Men just make all the women like, I don't want that.
I don't want girls in my life that are like that.
I want women in my life that are going to be like, Renee, you cannot generalize all
men like that.
You may be disappointed with that one person did in that moment, but that doesn't even
make that person a bad person.
Most people like, yes, we know there are diabolical people out there, but most people are very
much just trying to do the best that they can.
Sometimes they're coming from broken, wounded places, but we want to make sure that we have
female and male friends that are going to help turn us around.
So when we say or act in a way that might seem disloyal, that they're going to swoop
us back in.
And I also kind of think of like, I know like I'm being so secular saying this, but I think
of the infamous when Ross and Rachel had that, we were on a break moment and he goes out
with the guys and they go out drinking and dancing.
Like I feel like I hold his friends as much responsible to what happened to him.
Like he got wasted and he was devastated over, I mean, he loved and worshiped Rachel for
many, many years, finally gets her and he feels like he's losing her as she kind of
gets her independence and blossoms and this other guys like all over her.
I'm not trying to defend him, but I kind of am.
And then he gets drunk and wasted and where were his friends making sure that he wasn't
making any stupid choices.
And so we want to make sure that we have friends that are going to help us be loyal, even when
we don't have all of our faculties with us and we have every reason to not be.
All right.
The last item for the men is the helper.
Believe it or not, we're the help mate, but you are the helper.
So that is why you like to fix stuff.
That is why when women come to you with problems, you don't think, you don't realize that sometimes
we just need to vent or bounce ideas.
Your immediate response is, hey, I got to fix it.
She needs me to fix it.
She's telling me the problem, I'm going to fix it.
That's what helpers do, helpers help.
And so obviously that's a beautiful gift, but I'm already telling you that sometimes
the overuse of that gift is that sometimes she's going to talk to you about a situation.
She don't need your help.
She don't want your help.
She just wants you to listen because a lot of times women aren't ready to make a choice
yet.
It's not that they don't want your help ever in this situation.
They just may not want your help yet.
So sometimes they're like, why wouldn't you want me to help?
I do want you to help baby,
but right now I just need to piss and moan about it.
I got no energy to help get it done.
I just need to know someone can hear me.
And so I just need a wine.
I actually have a chart on my fridge
that a married couple did for me
and we taught it in the boundaries class.
I think I share about it in the boundaries.
I don't know if David went over it with you guys,
but it talks about how women and men start a sentence
when they're married.
So the couple automatically knows
you can kind of point to it on the fridge.
Like I'm starting a sentence with this means,
it just means you just listen.
Or this one, it means you're just gonna stop
and pray with me.
Or this one means you're gonna fix it for me.
So like you kind of, I need, I want,
you know, like I need and I want are two different things.
And so you are the helper.
So men, let me summarize this.
You are the order keeper.
You are the defender, dispenser of hope,
the provider, the covering, loyal and helper.
Any words in there that you were surprised were on there
that you're like, oh, I didn't even think about that,
but I'll take that.
Would you, I would say men, you are all,
you are all amazing, godly, beautiful men.
Every one of you on this call watching this in replay,
I 100% believe that Jackie tries to bring this out of us
and you are all capable of this
and any woman's gonna be super excited
to get all of this from you.
All right, you ready to hear the women's list?
Dun, dun, dun.
Okay, so the women's list,
the first thing that we were meant to be,
now, so in some ways, if we had to kind of compare
the divine masculine kind of shows up more like Jesus,
right, and that's what I love about it
because Jesus was all of those things.
You know, Jesus was the order keeper.
He was the defender, dispenser of justice,
provider, covering, loyal, and helper.
He was all those things, divinely masculine
without being creepy masculine, right,
an overbearing masculine, he had quiet strength.
Okay, so now we're gonna talk about the women's list
and the women's list looks closer to the Holy Spirit.
So while the divine masculine more aligns
with the character of Jesus,
the divine feminine matches more closely
with the Holy Spirit, which is not surprising
since easier is used in the Bible
to mention the Holy Spirit mostly, but then also women.
So that's our clue that we are gonna take on more
of those attributes.
The first one is women are to be nurturers.
So nurturer is not about taking care of children.
It's about seeing, I love this.
So this is how you want a woman to treat you.
She sees your potential for something
and they want to help water it.
So it's like, they see that gift in you,
they see that dream you have
and they wanna help grow that dream.
They see something, they see who you can become.
They see that gift that's inside of you.
They want to help provide a setting
where your gift will flourish.
This is not about caretaking.
So this is what happens with women.
Caretakers caretake children
or those that are sick in crisis or the elderly.
When you caretake, you do for them
what they cannot do for themselves.
So a lot of single moms,
a lot of people taking care of elderly parents
slip into caretaking a boyfriend
because they're just used to taking over and taking care.
Nurturing encourages them to do it for themselves.
Men don't need another mother.
Even if you don't have a good mother, you lost your mother.
You don't need another mother.
So that's what you wanna make sure that you are looking for
is a woman who will nurture you,
help you flourish and grow and cheer you on
and be your cheerleader,
but not take over and caretake for you.
And I think what happens sometimes,
this is how men will respond, kind of angry.
I don't need another mother.
I don't need a therapist.
So you have to find your words
when she starts to caretake and not nurture.
If she's your gal and she's got an open hand posture,
you wanna try to find more gentle ways
than you snapping at or telling you that you're not a child
and that you don't need a mother
and you don't need a therapist.
Just say, hey, you know what?
I'm feeling like you're starting to take over
and caretake for me.
I really don't need you to do that,
but I would love for you to cheer me on
and help me figure it out for myself.
Would you like-
Could you say like an encourager?
What? Yeah.
Kind of equally being an encourager?
Yes.
An encourager is close.
mostly aligned with, yes.
Nurturer.
A nurturer, yes.
Cause it's, you're kind of tearing some along,
you're encouraging them.
You're like, yeah, you can do it.
I think of, like I've had,
have you ever had physical therapy done, right?
Like post-surgery physical therapy, you guys,
I'd never had any kind of physical therapy
till my shoulder repaired four years ago.
It was the most excruciating thing of my life.
And there are parts of physical therapy
where they're physically manipulating at the end.
They're doing, they're moving the muscle for you.
But the majority of the session
is them getting you to do it yourself.
And that's what a nurturer does.
A physical therapist might yell at you
just a little bit more though.
The second one is counselor.
Now I did not say therapist, but a counselor.
Women are good at giving wise counsel.
That's what women are good at.
We are good at giving wise counsel.
So a wise counselor, different from a,
well, even my therapist does not tell me what to do,
but a therapist can tell you what to do.
Wise counselor might say things like,
well, they will first ask for permission.
Would you like some feedback?
Ty, you just told me situation.
Would you like some feedback?
Yes, Renee, I would love your feedback.
Awesome.
Well, let me tell you,
let's talk about the different scenarios
and which way each of those could go down.
If you chose this, this is what probably will happen
or could happen, or here's some of the choices
that could happen.
Here's how that might make you feel.
Here's how that might make the other person feel.
Or you could take this path, or you could take this path.
That's what wise counsel will do.
Wise counsel never tells you one thing to do.
Wise counsel will always try to tell you
what the various options are
and what are gonna be the pluses and minuses
and things to be looking for for each of those options.
And just say, hey, I support you
in the choice that you think is best for you.
That's wise counsel.
A therapist is gonna get closer to diagnosis,
like, oh, well, you know, Ty,
you're doing that because you're an anxious attachment
and that's how it's coming off.
Like, I'm already diagnosing you
before I've even given you my counsel.
So I'm diagnosing you.
Like, oh, that's why your ex left you.
Right?
That's the infamous, I've gotten that.
Renee, that's why you're still single.
Awesome, thanks.
So now everything you just are gonna say to me afterwards
is just gonna get negated.
Okay, so that's what wise counsel is.
Wise counsel is kind.
It's not judgmental.
It's respectful.
And it looks at all of the options
and it doesn't tell you what to do.
Okay, the next one is wisdom.
It kind of goes with counselor.
So if counselors can give wise counsel,
then chances are there's some wisdom and discernment there.
So wisdom and discernment,
it sometimes looks like women have sixth sense, right?
Have you heard that phrase?
How did she just know?
She had like sixth sense.
Yeah, women have crazy discernment.
I used to be the, you know,
I already told you I was the business administrator
at the church.
I was basically second in command to the pastor.
I would sit next to him during session or elder meetings
because I was really good at reading the room.
My discernment button,
well, for everything else except for dating,
but my discernment button was really, really spot on.
And so sometimes I would watch the room,
I'd read the room and he would hear the questions,
but he wasn't really hearing what they were asking.
And so I would slip him notes,
like she's really asking you this,
or he's really asking you this.
And then he would able to respond to what I was being able
to discern, which was going on in the room.
So if women are kind of giving you insight
into something that you don't see happening,
like perfect example, y'all, like my ex,
he was, in my opinion,
and I've got this crazy discernment on this.
He was making some women feel, he was so friendly.
He was such a salesman.
He was super friendly, but he could not read the room.
And he couldn't tell like when the waiter just wanted
to get back to his job, like, stop talking.
The waiter's done chit-chatting with you, good, go on.
Or when we're in the elevator
and he's talking to the young girl and I'm like, no,
you're gonna come off like creeper old guy,
what are you doing?
And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about.
And I'm like, it's wisdom, it's discernment.
But here's when discernment goes awry,
because just like the guys, they could always go awry.
So.
For nurturer, they become a caretaker.
We don't want that.
For counselor, they become a therapist and they start judging you and they start giving
you advice and they diagnose you.
We don't want that.
The negative impact of wisdom without a healthy and healed heart is cynicism.
I've got to turn the light on.
It's getting, it's starting to get dark.
Okay.
All right.
I'm sorry about the light shining on the back of me, but y'all don't need, all right.
So let's just say, others say, while wisdom is the application of knowledge, discernment
is the ability to judge well.
Discernment is the ability to perceive, understand, and judge things clearly, especially things
that are not obvious or straightforward.
However, with a broken and unhealed heart, that can turn into judgment and suspicion.
It can look picky and negative.
And as we age, it shows on our face.
We get what they call resting bitch face, and it can come off as a disapproving spirit.
So how many of you've seen women go from strong, healthy discernment to, I call it judgy McJudgy.
She's being judgy McJudgy.
And it's like just, she's just being super judgmental.
I also call it cynical, judgmental, cynical, and suspicious.
Like I know it might be appropriate to Google somebody before you meet them, but then there
are some women that are going down the rabbit trail.
They become a private investigator and they are like looking for all your dirt before
she's had a first date and super picky and super negative.
So if you are sensing a woman that is being super picky, and here's the thing, you guys,
I want to help save you.
She's not going to appear picky and negative about you right away.
When you're first meeting her, she's going to go out on all the stops to make you feel
like a million bucks, but you're going to see picky and negative and judgy McJudgy show
up in other places.
Whether it's the food that she ordered, how someone else is treating her, the outfit she
has on, you will start to see picky and negative and judgy behavior somewhere else in her life
before you see it in the way she's treating you because she's going to monitor her own
behavior to her longer, but she can't help herself because somewhere it's going to come
out.
So hopefully that made sense to you.
Number four, she is the comforter.
She's the comforter.
She is the one that will bring shalom peace, the peace that surpasses all understanding.
She is your advocate and your comforter.
She will provide peace to those who are, it's the phrase, steadfast.
She will be steadfast.
The result of a righteousness, okay, let's see.
It's a quiet, confident fervor, quiet, confident fervor.
That's what she's going to have in the embodiment.
So it is not just quiet girls.
I would say that I bring a lot of peace even though I'm a loud Italian, right?
So don't confuse comforter, peace, and shalom with quiet.
It's just somebody who kind of brings in that spirit.
You know how we said that men are the order keeper, you can kind of bring order to chaos.
You can bring order to the chaos.
She can bring peace to the chaos.
You bring order.
She brings peace.
Do you see how those blend nicely together, order and peace?
Otherwise, order without peace is just military, right?
It's just militant.
It's just demanding.
But order with peace kind of brings the whole thing down.
So I love that.
Number five, meek.
Meek is not weak, right?
So meek, meek, meek, meek.
It's a positive moral quality dealing with people in a kind manner with humility and
consideration.
It is not rigid or...
So the earthly ways of being meek are looked at being weak, but in essence, it's actually
opposite.
It is power under control.
So somebody used that phrase and I really loved it.
Meek is power under control.
Now here's the thing, you guys.
Meek is one of the self-control and meek is one of the fruit of the spirit.
So that means...
So unpacking the fruit of the spirit, that's an opportunity for both of us.
So there's divine masculine, divine feminine, but we both get to act as fruit of the spirit.
And self-control and meek is a part of that.
Here's where meek can go awry with women.
It starts to look super rigid and cold.
Like, so she's so calm, she's so peaceful,
she's so reined in on not being emotional
that she can come off looking rigid and cold.
So if you've been around women
who kind of appear rigid and cold,
they've been trapped into their meekness
or kind of forced into it, shunned into it
in a way that it's not allowed them to blossom.
Number six, she's the receiver.
So she is meant to receive from you all.
Jackie will say that even in a sexual relationship,
the man is the giver and she is the receiver.
And so she is meant to receive mentally,
emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
So even though Jackie encourages women
to drop the first hanky and after that first date,
let a guy know that she would like a second date,
really, she should be the receiver in most of that,
in that courting relationship.
And now, obviously, a receiver gone awry
would be she takes advantage of you, right?
And she just milks you for all you got.
So we don't want women taking advantage of you.
And so that's not important.
Then the last one for number seven for women is fun.
Believe it or not, women are supposed to bring the fun.
So when you don't have any goofy questions
to ask out on a date,
or any goofy fun things to do on a date,
and you're like feeling like it's an interview,
pull out her fun.
Just say, hey, I think on the next date,
we just need to do something fun and silly.
Can you help me plan that?
I would just like to laugh and have fun with you.
And do you wanna know,
that's like one of the number one things
girls are looking for in a man
is somebody who can make her laugh.
Because life has been hard
and we are all serious too, too much.
The other thing I wanted to say for you guys too,
as you guys are talking about being divine masculine
and divine feminine,
again, and I think I talked about this
in the online dating thing last week,
it is super important that you guys,
we don't bring our whiny past with us on our future dates.
And so there's a time and a place
to talk to our current people
about our past relationships and what went wrong
and what we learned from it.
But we wanna make sure we don't turn those early dates
into just a bitch fest about the ex.
And it's almost like,
if you do remember Lethal Weapon,
I love how I'm bringing up all these movie analogies,
Lethal Weapon three,
it's Renee, and I know it's Renee Russo.
People always think that that's my name.
And oh my gosh, what's his name?
You guys, he was the guy who made The Passion of the Christ.
Why am I having a brain freeze?
Mel Gibson.
COVID brain.
Okay, so there's a scene with Mel Gibson and Renee Russo
where they're comparing their bullet wounds and their scars.
Like, oh my gosh, you got shot here?
Oh my gosh, I have a scar here.
And it's like this funny scene
of who has more battle scars.
And it's funny, but you guys,
people do this on dates all the time.
Like, I'm just gonna tell you who had the worst childhood,
who had the worst ex-wife or the ex-spouse.
Like, that's me.
And we don't wanna do that on dates.
All right, other closing thoughts, let's see.
And I do wanna remind you
that even though we are divine masculine
and divine feminine, we are both the bride of Christ.
So before we get married,
we are all the bride of Christ, male and female.
Then we have a marriage relationship on earth,
which is supposed to most closely represent
that marriage relationship.
But my pastor just did a 10-week series on this.
When we go home to heaven,
we go back to being the bride of Christ.
So while we will have a familiar
and special relationship with our spouse
in a way that we can't comprehend on earth,
it's not gonna be the same marriage relationship
because you're gonna have your spouse,
it's gonna be a special person to you,
but we'll all go back to being the bride of Christ.
And so that's when we are in all this.
All right, so let me give you some practices.
This is your homework, 7.58.
I'm doing good, you guys.
Bam, we're right on time.
Okay, so here's your homework.
And then we have the homework for the women too.
Practice ways to be more masculine.
Open doors, offer to lift things and grab things.
You guys, I was just on, I just came back from Mexico.
I was on four flights
because it was a connecting flight.
Of the four flights, I'm four foot 11
and I had to lift my very heavy bag up in the overhead.
Ask me, answer me how many men.
offer to lift my bag out of the four flights. One, one, one of
the four. And y'all, like, I made sure I struggled. I didn't
just like, I don't just struggle because it's heavy because I'm
a strong girl. I lift weights now. But I'm just vertically
challenged and getting it up and into the bin. And then I can get
it in the bin. But then sometimes I can't get it out of
the bin. Because it's like, I literally sometimes have to
stand on a seat to get up out of the bin. And so the second guy
says, Hey, do you want? Yes. Yes. I would love for you to
grab the bag. Yes. Thank you. Now you are going to offer to
open doors. And you're going to offer to grab bags and women are
going to say no to you. It's okay. Do it anyway. Because she
has not been taught to say yes. We're teaching the women to say
yes, every time. Like at the gym, I have when I have to hook
up the pull down. I have to stand on the seat to do it. Now
I just pause laughing at me. It's true, though. So I don't
even try it anymore. I'm at the gym. I'm practicing being
feminine. Like, hey, can you get that for me? And every time you
want you know, how many times do guys say yes, when I ask every
single time, a man will do it for me. He will be chivalrous. So
you be chivalrous. Be on the lookout for toxic femininity.
That will look like seduction or manipulation. So we want to make
sure you know what that looks like and be paying attention to
it. Do not confuse masculine with boastful, loud or
financially successful. Don't be hard to be impressed. Work on
managing your energy and emotion, no matter what
personality style you are. Some of you need to reign in your
personality and others of you need to get out from beneath the
walls. So some of you need to kind of come down. Some of you
might need to rise up. Be masculine and all you do
practice everywhere you go. So kind of like look at that order
keeper, defender, dispenser. How can I practice that in all of my
ways? Don't treat women like your mother, therapist or
sister. That's why we don't want to tell each other all our
vomit in the first session. Don't focus on being independent
or dependent. Think interdependence. Jackie always
says this, our relationship with our spirit mate is not a waltz
but more like a West Coast swing. If you ever watched on
Instagram, when people draw each other's names and a song
they don't know, like in a West Coast swing, you never know
who's leading and you can kind of just follow each other all of
the time. Ask for what you need. When she talks to you, listen to
hear her and not respond. Ask Holy Spirit to reveal anything
in you that is counterfeit that still needs healing. So that is
the divine masculine and feminine teaching. How'd that go
for you guys? Was that helpful? Yes, it was. Okay, good. I'm
open for any questions or final ahas, thoughts, anything you
want to add to it. Feel free to add and share. Well, Chris left
us but he apologized. So he will probably have to watch this and
replay. Any thoughts, feelings, concerns, ideas?
So I like the picture of that the masculinity is like a
greenhouse for the femininity to grow. Like we use our strength
and our power to create a greenhouse for the flowers to
grow. And she can have the freedom and she doesn't have to
work. She doesn't have to walk in her masculine because it's
covered. Not that she can't walk in her masculine, but she
doesn't have to. So she can flourish and become all she's
supposed to be.
Yeah. And here's the thing. She wants you to grow too. So that's
the beauty. That's the beauty is you both together are going to
be more powerful and more you're going to both have more growth
because you're going to be inspiring each other to kind of
grow into that more. I love it. That's good. I love that
imagery. Well, you guys, this has been so much fun. Hunter,
what do you got?
Well, well, I was thinking about it's the last year single that
ready yet. I mean, I did get a messenger. I got something from
Jackie. That was it that
trying to get we're still trying to get all the men and the women
aren't even in yet. We only have volunteers in and some of the
men. So we're still working on that. But I don't have any more
answers to that. Because that's a David question. Because David
has a lot of the men in stripe, which is a platform that me and
Michelle do not have access to. So I can't answer that. And I'm
gonna I saw your man, I saw you post in the thing. So I will, we
will let you know, as I know.
All right, cuz I even gave Jackie an email. She said, email
me she'd have access.
I understand. It's
It's not a, Jackie's not the one loading.
We're having, you know,
we're working through some kinks right now.
I mean, I've got like six tickets open
with the vendor and stuff.
But Paul and Mike and Ty,
have you guys been able to get in
and move around in there yet?
No.
I know you were all in on the email.
I know you were.
I probably missed it then.
What is it from a...
Okay, so you got the,
cause I also did a training on it.
Like I know for a fact,
Hunter, I thought your name was on there too,
but Paul, Mike, and Ty,
I know specifically Ty, Jackie,
make sure your name was on that email.
And so the email came from,
if you did not get the email
or if you guys cannot find the email,
and Hunter, maybe you can't find the email either.
Email me at admin at JackieDurham.com
if you can't find the email.
So we sent a reminder.
We sent an invitation email out two weeks ago or a week ago.
And then last week I sent out,
I had Cheryl send out another email.
I think it went out Friday.
And it said, hey, you guys,
here's a copy of the replay of the training I did,
how to move around the app.
And here's the link to get in
and here's some summary notes for you.
So if you guys...
I'm sorry, we access the app through your email
that you send us.
It's not like we can get it on the Apple store
or anything like that.
Well, you should be able to download the app.
Okay, so right now we're not using...
You can use the app from the Apple store.
I'm gonna put in this chat right here,
the actual web version.
Hold on.
Okay, hold on.
So I've been tootling around on it, it's cool.
Okay.
It'll be more fun with more people, but yeah.
Okay, so there is the front end link to the app.
That's the desktop version.
So that's what I trained on
because the mobile one has a couple more kinks in it.
So you can download it.
So right now, there's about 35 women in there,
just the volunteers.
And we wanted a handful of the men,
our most active men in there, kind of moving around.
So if you just click on that link that's in there right now,
then you can just bookmark it.
And it's gonna ask for your email address.
And the first time through, if you don't have a password,
it's gonna ask you to set up a password.
But if you go to the email I sent on Friday,
there's a replay of a Zoom video
of how to move around the whole app.
If you can't find that email,
email me at admin at jackiedorman.com.
I will have Cheryl manually,
I will manually forward you guys the email.
Oh, because Jackie said,
Hunter, email admins at jackie.com to get access to the app.
I know, that's why I just gave you the link right there.
But if you did not get that email, I need you to email me
and I'm gonna have Cheryl forward you guys
the email directly.
Probably also what it means is because part of the problem
is some of you guys are on the old system,
are on Stripe and you're not in Kajabi.
You don't need to know all this.
And unfortunately, it means that you're not necessarily
getting all of our emails correctly.
So we're trying to create profiles for you in Kajabi
so you can start getting our emails.
But, so you did not get the email last week, email me.
We will get you set up in the system.
That's the link right there on the chat
to get to the desktop version of the new app.
But wait, didn't you get an email on May 16th
that I just sent say, now can I access the app?
Hunter, do me a favor, send another email
and address it to me.
Just say Renee, because otherwise Reagan's getting it
and she's forwarding it and it's not getting to me.
All right, I'll, next email will be-
I don't know, I don't have an email from you.
So just address it right to me and I will take care of it.
There's a administration Jackie Dorma,
but same one she messaged me.
It's just the admin email.
Hey, Paul, I think Mike, you closed out last time.
So Paul, I'm gonna ask you to close out in prayer.
Me?
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
Father, just thank you for this time.
And we just ask Lord that you reveal to us more and more
what it is to be divine masculine
and to also recognize the divine feminine in others.
We thank you for this time.
We ask for your blessings upon Renee
in Jesus name, amen.