Okay, folks, so welcome everybody to our all community path teaching tonight.
I was super excited when Jackie and Bethany approached me about this topic.
We are actually going to talk about, goodness gracious, I'm so sorry about the dog.
There's somebody right outside the window, but we're going to ignore her.
And we're going to talk about getting our houses in order.
And we're going to start talking about finances, and it's a really hard, uncomfortable topic.
We are not super excited always to talk about it, especially if our financial position's
not in a good place.
But you guys, how you navigate your finances really matters in a marriage.
It's one of the most important topics.
I'm going to just grab my dog real quick.
There's just somebody right outside the window that she just feels like she needs to protect me against.
Okay, so finances is a really important, really uncomfortable topic.
We're going to cover what God has to say about money first, then I'm going to go kind of
into some practical tips and tools that we're going to kind of talk about.
Then you all are going to have some good questions that we actually share during our
Symbus pre-marriage class that you guys are going to go into a breakout room and talk
about.
It is not your time to dump your financial situation on the three other people that you're
going to be in the room with, but to just answer some questions honestly.
And then we're going to come back together, and I'm going to go over with you at every
level of dating.
Level two early, level two thinking about exclusivity.
Early and exclusive, later and exclusive when you're thinking about getting engaged.
What's the level of conversation?
And you guys, we try to have this conversation with you all the time because sometimes y'all
are like sharing really personal stuff really too soon.
And your financial position and your finances, that's a really, really delicate topic.
And some of that information is very personal.
So we want to make sure we help you ask the right questions at all of the right stages.
All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.
So I've been around people, just so you guys know too, my degree is actually in finance
and I have done finance my whole life.
I've been the CFO, the CEO, and I'm now the treasurer on my condo board.
I can't get away from a budget.
They just seem to, budgets seem to follow me wherever I go.
So I do love a good Excel spreadsheet, and I am going to pull up a spreadsheet to show
you guys, and I have it in a Google sheets and in Excel, and that's something that we're
going to make available to y'all as well.
So when I talk about finances, especially in the church world, sometimes we have people
on both ends of this extreme, right?
I've been around people who are like letter of the law, budget, tithing, the thing, right?
And then I've seen plenty of people are like, oh, the Lord's going to provide, the Lord's
just going to provide, like money's just going to fall like manna from heaven.
I ran a nonprofit for 20 years, and I had some people on my board are just like, well,
if the Lord told us to do it, he's just going to give us the money.
And then I had the finance people are like, oh yeah, show me the money.
I was definitely someone in the middle going, okay, I want to be faithful, but I also got
to see what's in the checking account.
So like I was always kind of toggling that, and that's the kind of wrestle is we want
to leave at, we want to lean out in faith with our finances, but we need to be prudent.
And so even though Philippians 4.19 says, and my God shall supply all of my needs accord
to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus, that does not mean you get to be irresponsible
with your money, and the Lord is just going to provide that manna from heaven.
So do not take Philippians 4.19 out of context, okay?
And then the other thing that people always say, well, the love of, you know, that money
is the root of all evil.
It's not.
1 Timothy 6.10 says the love of money is the root of all kind of evil.
So it's that love, it's that idolatry, it's that worship, it's that fixation on money.
That is what is the root of all evil.
There's just so much that stems from that.
Let me just give you some dates or some data.
As of May 2024, now you might be listening to this going, okay, I'm doing way better
than the average American, or ooh, I'm not doing so good at all.
As of May 2024, the average American household debt is $104,000, including mortgage, auto,
credit card, student loan, and other debts.
This is a record high and an 11% increase from 2020 alone.
The average American also pays 10% of their income.
come on debt payment every single month, which is less than most of the year 2000s. As of Q4,
the fourth quarter, so like October, November, December, those of you that don't follow quarter,
of 2023, the average American household owed over $6,000 in credit card debt.
According to the 2836 rule, you should spend no more than 28% of your monthly income
on housing and no more than 36% on debt. Housing, of course, includes your mortgage,
homeowners insurance, and private insurance. So that's just some data on some debt that we go
into. One of the things that Jackie wanted me to talk about is the difference between a scarcity
poverty mindset and an abundant mindset. And we're going to kind of define that a little bit,
and I've got some scripture to kind of back up each of those. I want to make sure there's no
other questions. Okay. What is the dinging sound? Hopefully it is done dinging. Hopefully it is
done dinging. So a scarcity mindset, a scarcity mindset is a way of thinking that there is never
enough money or resources and that you're always on the brink of not having enough. This mindset
can lead to negative behaviors like hoarding, overspending, so the exact opposite, and penny
pinching. And it can prevent you from making wise financial decisions. It can also affect your
happiness, cause anxiety, and limit your opportunities. You know, we've even talked
about the scarcity mindset, even when it comes to dating. Oh my gosh, there's not enough guys.
Oh my gosh, there's not enough girls. Oh my gosh, there's nobody in my town. Like we can get that
scarcity mindset in all of our areas. And here's a little bit how, like where the hoarding and,
or the overspending comes in. In terms of financial decision-making, a scarcity mindset could lead you
down two paths. Either you're inclined to hoard all your cash rather than invest it or spend it.
And we're going to read a Bible story about that. Or you're tempted to just spend, spend, spend,
and forego any type of long-term goals or planning because you're just feeling like it's just never
going to happen for you. Matthew 6 26 says, look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or
store in barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
And so when you think about a scarcity mindset, no, I don't want you to spend to your heart's
content, but we do have to have some level of trust that God has got you. Now I want to talk
about the difference between poverty mindset and scarcity mindset versus abundant mindset. And you
might think, well, abundant means just, I got it. I got a ton of money. And that's actually not what
it means. An abundant mindset is the opposite of the scarcity mindset, and it helps unlock your
greater financial potential to achieve your long-term goals. This can be called enough
mindset. What is the concept? Enough, write that down. An abundant mindset is enough mindset.
It's knowing that you have enough, you're doing enough, you are enough to feel personally fulfilled
and satisfied with your life. Like I have enough, I haven't enough. So an abundant
mindset is looking at what you've got right now and seeing the abundance around it.
Because if you think abundant is having excess, or you're always chasing that dollar amount that's
way out there, then actually you're never going to get out of that poverty scarcity mindset.
So an abundant mindset doesn't mean you're just rolling in the dough, but an abundant mindset
says, I have a roof over my head. I've got clothes on my body. I've got food in the fridge. I'm making
my bills. I have family. I have friends. I have an abundant life. That's an abundant mindset.
An abundant mindset, it can become a positive. It means having a positive and realistic attitude
toward your financial life, because financial freedom isn't just a savings goal or particular
net worth. It's also the reassurance of knowing you're going to be okay,
and that you can live life on your own terms without having to worry about
where your next pain check will come. It's worth noting that an optimistic enough mindset doesn't
magically manifest positive return overnight. Instead, an attitude of abundance
fuels your motivation to act and make thoughtful decisions.
visions that can help you achieve your goals.
Jackie talks about this abundant mindset as we date,
as we look for other things in our life.
We want to believe that,
we wanna have that positive energy.
If you have a scarcity mindset in your dating
and in your finance,
that is gonna give off a lot of negative energy
and it's not gonna be attractive to the people around you.
You wanna keep your lives free from the love of money
and be confident with what you have
because God has said,
never will I leave you,
never will I forsake you.
So that's Hebrews 3, 5.
And so I want us to think about the words
that are associated with a poverty mindset
versus an abundant mindset.
When we think about a scarcity or poverty mindset,
we think of words like fear, anxiety,
sadness, depression, anger,
envy and covet, that FOMO, right?
That FOMO.
When we think about words that go with abundant mindset,
we think of peace, contentment, trust,
hopeful and secure.
And you guys, I have been to developing countries.
I've been around very wealthy people.
You know, I first,
I worked at a very wealthy church in Connecticut
and then of course I ran a nonprofit.
I've been around some of the wealthiest people
in the country.
I've also been, I've also served in my ministry
some of the poorest people.
And I can tell you this,
the amount of money you have
doesn't always equate with an abundant mindset.
I have seen people in middle class or lower class
have an abundant mindset.
So don't think that as your money goes up,
your abundant mindset goes up.
The mindset has to precede the money.
So I'm gonna read you a little story
about what God has to say about what we do with our money.
It's in Matthew 25, 14 to 30.
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey
who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them.
To one, he gave five bags of gold,
to another two bags and to another one bag,
each according to his ability.
Then he went on his journey.
The man who had received five bags of gold
went at once and put his money to work
and gained five more bags.
So also the one with two bags of gold gained two more.
But the man who had received one bag went off,
dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
After a long time, the master of those servants
returned and settled accounts with them.
The man who had received five bags of gold
brought the other five.
Master, he said, you entrusted me with five bags.
See, I have gained five more.
His master replied, well done, good and faithful servant.
You have been faithful with a few things.
I will put you in charge now of many things.
Come and share your master's happiness.
Y'all, we've heard that phrase, right, a lot.
Like when people pass away or die, we're like,
oh, we think the phrase that when God is talking to us
is like, well done, good and faithful servant.
We forget that it's starting in this money conversation.
The man with two bags of gold also came.
Master, he said, you entrusted me with two bags of gold.
See, I've gained two more.
His master replied, well done, good and faithful servant.
You have been faithful with a few things
and I will put you in charge of many.
Come and share your master's happiness.
So he did not give more to the person who had five
from the person who had two.
He rewarded their abundance.
Then the man who had received one bag of gold came.
Master, I knew that you are a hard man,
harvesting where you have not sown
and gather where you've not scattered seed.
So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground.
See, here it is, what belongs to you.
His master replied, you wicked, lazy servant.
So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown
and gather where I have not scattered?
Well, then you should have put my money on deposit
with the banker so that when I returned,
I would have received it back at least with interest.
So take the bag of gold from him
and give it to the one who has 10 bags.
For whoever will be given more, they will have an abundance.
Whoever does not have even what they have
will be taken from them.
And throw that worthless servant outside into the darkness
where they'll be weeping and gnashing of the teeth.
And so you guys, it's just this reminder,
whatever God has entrusted you with,
whatever little bit you've been entrusted with,
you wanna be obedient and abundant in your posture with it
and God will be able to multiply it.
Now, normally I would love to do a PowerPoint presentation,
but I wanna see as many of your faces as possible.
And when I do a PowerPoint,
I feel like I lose so many faces and so I don't like to do that.
So that's why you're actually going to just have to take a lot of notes and it's super
important that we're doing that.
Um, okay.
And you guys, if you are, it's, it's my, it's my fault.
You guys on the dinging, I forgot to turn off my notification.
So hopefully people will stop texting me and the rest of the time.
So I apologize.
I don't want to stop long enough to go to my settings and turn off the notification.
So y'all are just gonna have to give me some grace that at the very beginning, my dog went
cuckoo and a whole little texting string went crazy.
So I apologize.
I promise I did not mean to do that.
So I wanted to ask you guys some questions, some group fun questions.
And so you guys, um, this has nothing to do.
Somebody asked me, what if you're not dating y'all?
This has nothing to do with you being you dating.
I need you to get your house in order with your finance now before you get married.
This is not a, I'm going to get my crap together when I find my mate.
No, you want to go into your dating relationship to the, be the best version of yourself.
You don't want to lose weight when you meet him or her.
You don't want to get your finances in order.
You don't want to get the job.
You don't want to write the book.
You don't want to do all the things when you get the person you want to live into the
freedom into that now.
So us getting our house in order has nothing to do with it.
I don't care if you guys are, I don't care if you guys are sitting there and you own
your home or you're renting.
I don't care if you have a 401k or if you don't, if we don't have a pot to pee in, like
this is not what this is about.
This conversation is for everybody.
Everybody can learn something, um, from that.
And so, um, let's go, what's the percent again for the mortgage?
I will get back to that again.
Um, and you guys be careful how much you're sharing about your own finances in the chat
room.
I really don't think it's appropriate for you to be sharing whether you have debt or
not debt in the chat, we're going to go over that at the very end.
Remember we talked about what's appropriate for a level two and level three dating right
now we're at a level one with one another.
We are in group community with one another.
So we want to be, we want to be super, super careful that we, um, don't share too much
information in the chat.
So that's your first boundary for tonight.
Be careful to what you share in the chat about your personal finances.
Okay.
So I have some questions.
I want to see how many hands raised and there's no right or wrong answer here.
Okay.
This is a, these are questions that get asked actually on the pre-marriage Simba's class.
Raise your hand.
Um, it's going to either be the husband, the wife, or both.
So you're going to either raise your hand first if you think it's the husband's job.
Second if it's the wife's, third if it's both.
And I know some of you are gonna be like, it depends, but I want you to pick one anyway.
Who do you think's job it is to provide income once you're married?
How many want to say it's just the husband's job?
Okay.
Brave ladies and men.
Okay.
Awesome.
Lower your hands.
How many thinks it's the wife's job?
He's like, I'm retired, man.
I did my part.
I got the pension.
All right.
How many think it's both?
Okay.
Let's see.
Do I have a lot of both?
I got a lot of both.
Awesome.
Okay.
Lower your hands.
Awesome.
Okay.
Second question.
Whose job is it to manage the budget?
Manage the budget.
Should it be the guy's job to manage the budget?
The wife?
Both.
How many say both?
Awesome.
Okay.
Whose job is it?
Now, okay, you guys, this next question, someone's going to have to pick because both people
can't do this next one.
Pay the bills.
Who's paying the bills?
So husband.
Is the husband paying the bills?
I'll be very curious where we land on this.
How many say the wife is going to be the one paying the bills?
Yeah.
I think that's really funny.
Mom is taking care of the bills.
There's no right or wrong answer.
Just trying to get perceptions.
But you guys, these are important questions that you'll be asking towards the end of as
you're getting prepared in a relationship.
Okay.
Is it appropriate for both people to talk about money when you're married?
Yep.
Both people can talk.
Is it yes?
Raise your hand if it's a yes.
Can both people bring up money,
even if you're not the one making the money?
Even if you're not the one making the money.
Okay, good.
I'm gonna lower all your hands.
Okay, so you're about to get married
and you are gonna be the stay-at-home mom with the kids,
because you still have kids at home,
he's got kids at home, he's the major bride winner.
Does the wife who's not bringing in an income
get a say in the budget and the finances?
Yes, raise your hand.
Yeah, I think she does.
Because guess what?
She's got a free, you know,
she's just getting a crappy salary
for being a stay-at-home mom, you know?
She's doing all the things.
Okay, awesome.
All right, so now I've got some questions
for you guys to ask yourself.
I'm gonna lower all the hands.
So since you've got all of the hands down.
All right, so the first question is,
and this is just for yourself,
I'm gonna ask you guys five questions.
You're not taking the answers to this in the breakout room.
I promise, this is just for you.
I read the definition between a scarcity poverty mindset
versus an abundant mindset.
First question, do you think you have
a scarcity poverty mindset or an abundant mindset?
You guys, there are a lot of people
who make over $250,000 a year
who still have a scarcity mindset.
So I promise you, it's not just that.
So go ahead and answer that question for yourself.
And just say a little bit about that.
Okay.
Okay, the second question,
what concerns do you have most right now?
What concerns do you have most right now
about your financial position
that you would be bringing into the marriage and why?
What concerns you most
about your current financial position
that you would be bringing into the marriage and why?
Go ahead, this is just for you guys.
I'm not gonna have you read that answer to anybody.
And just take a moment in that,
don't rush that answer and be really honest with yourself.
All right, the next question, this is a positive one.
So I want you to try to think about something
to be positive about with your finances.
What gives you peace about your financial future?
Even if you have to pray about it,
think of something that gives you peace
about your financial future.
Okay.
Great.
All right, next question.
Do you have higher expectation for your future spouse
about their finances than you have about your own?
So let me give you an example about this.
Say I am 20 pounds overweight,
but I expect my man to look hot
and not be 20 pounds overweight.
Say I have student loan debt,
but I don't want a man who's got debt.
So that's what I'm kind of saying about that.
So like your own finances are either a hot mess express
or they're pretty good,
but boy, you have very high expectations
of the person that you're gonna wanna marry
that their financial position is better than yours.
Go ahead and be honest if that's where you are right now.
It is okay.
This is just you kind of getting real with yourself.
All right, so the second part of that question,
now you might be saying, well, you know,
I can handle it if they're in the same place as me.
How do you feel about them being
in a more difficult financial position than you?
How does that make you feel?
That you have fallen in love with some amazing person,
but you found out their financial situation is.
the hot mess.
So then the final question is,
would you be willing to hold space for grace
with finances in your future,
either with yourself or with your future spouse?
How much space for grace are you willing to own?
I love that you guys are like being really honest about that.
By the way, I loved your answer
about who should be doing the bills.
I'm a big fan of whoever does it best.
Like I'm the finance person, so I'm okay if he's doing it,
but he better know finance better than me.
Otherwise, buddy boy, you're giving me the checkbook
and we're gonna be,
but I'm just looking through all these answers.
I'm curious about what some of you are writing
about the God answers,
but I bet you that will come out more
in your breakout rooms
and what you actually mean about that.
Okay, so I'm gonna actually start
to get into the nitty gritty.
Here's a tidbit for you
of how to make healthy financial decisions.
And you guys, a lot of it isn't in the big decision.
So sometimes when we spend money,
we think it's, do you buy the house or not?
The car or not?
Go on that expensive vacation or not?
That actually isn't what impacts your daily wealth the most.
Do you wanna know what it is?
It's how you spend the little money, the piddly money.
And so I want you to ask yourself
before you make an impulsive decision on finances,
I'm gonna ask you to check your pies and your habits.
Now, if you are newer to the program,
I talk about pies and habits and boundaries.
If you are longer in our program,
you've not heard me teach the class on pies and habits.
So pies and habits are an acronym.
So the word pie stands for physical,
intellectual, emotional, and spiritual health.
You're gonna write that down.
How are your pies doing?
So it is not time to go on Amazon
and do a little spending spree.
If you are physically sick and unhealthy,
unless it's to get some meds.
If you are intellectually just not in a good place,
like your mind, like you can't think straight,
you have brain fog, you just got over COVID,
you just got over a sinus infection,
you have some version of brain fog.
That is not the time to be purchasing.
Emotional health.
Y'all, how many women have said the word,
I need to do a little retail therapy, right?
Mm-hmm, retail therapy.
So emotional health can really impact you.
It's kind of like you don't go to the grocery store
when you're starving, right?
You don't go spending when you are emotionally depleted.
And then the last one is spiritual health.
Obviously we believe that wisdom comes from God.
And so he's gonna give us holy discernment,
peace, and prudence.
The enemy is just gonna want you to spend, spend, spend.
So first check your pies
before you make an impulsive decision.
Physical, intellectual, emotional, or spiritual health.
The other word is habits.
And I use this word a lot
when I talk about having conflict resolution with somebody.
If you need to do conflict resolution with somebody
or make a big decision like, I don't know,
should we go to level two or not?
Should we break up or not?
You are not supposed to do it when your habits are amok.
So what do habits stand for?
H stands for hungry.
A stands for angry.
B stands for bored.
Like so boredom and sloth.
You guys, sloth is one of those seven deadly sins, right?
So boredom is a biggie.
I stands for insecure or isolated.
T stands for tired.
S stands for stressed.
So I always try to say, it's kind of like, you know,
I've had enough surgery, so I know this.
So one of the things that you have to sign
when you're about to go under general anesthesia
is that you promise that you're not gonna make
any major life decisions.
I think it's like 72 hours after surgery
because they know you're gonna have brain fog.
And so I'm just gonna encourage you to pay attention
to your pies and your habits,
and especially start to notice the pattern of, gosh,
when I'm feeling isolated and alone, man, I just do this.
Those of you that have food issues,
everything I'm saying tonight
could actually line up with food issues.
Money issues, food issues, porn issues, sex issues,
any kind of addictive behavior
that you guys have gotten yourself entangled with
really could be applying to this conversation of finance
because a lot of times we're going to get a fix.
And so that's what impacts our finances.
Okay, our next scripture verse I'm gonna give you is,
because we have two principles that I want you to consider
and we're getting super close
to y'all going into your breakout
in about 10 minutes, you'll be going into your breakout.
We're gonna go to our breakout for about 20 minutes
and then we're gonna come back for 10 minutes
for us to discuss what's appropriate to talk about
at the different levels.
And then I wanna actually hear from y'all
and you guys get to ask questions and give your thoughts.
So the first principle,
and this is really back to that abundant living,
like, okay, Renee, that sounds really great.
How do I go about living abundantly?
The first thing you have to learn how to do
is live within your means.
It's the first thing you have to do, live within your means.
Let me read you 1 Timothy 6, 6-12.
So Cheryl, I know you are there
and I know you're not feeling good,
but if you can be putting in these verses, that'd be great.
1 Timothy 6, 6-12,
but godliness with contentment is a great gain
for we brought nothing into the world
and we cannot take anything out.
But if we had food and clothing with these,
we will be content.
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation,
into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires
that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
For the love of money
is a root of all kind of evil things.
It is through this craving that some have wandered away
from the faith and pierce themselves with many pangs.
But as for you, oh man of God,
flee these things, pursue righteousness,
godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness,
fight the good fight of faith,
take hold of the eternal life to which you were called
about which you were made the good confession
in the presence of many witnesses.
I love it because you guys, we use a lot of those verses
and we don't ever mean it to have anything to do
with having that abundant living
and living within your means.
And I love it.
And you guys, when I was on staff at the church,
I was the church business administrator.
So I saw how much people gave
and I also saw where they lived.
And I also saw, I had firsthand knowledge
of who were the people in debt
coming to the church asking for money.
And you guys, I've seen people with $10 million homes
not have enough for Christmas
because they were just living beyond their means.
And so it is actually, and scripture talks about it a lot.
Luke, the gospel of Luke talks a lot
about how hard it is to enter heaven
when you have a lot of riches.
I've seen people with great wealth manage it well
and they give, give, give, give, give.
But I've seen a lot of people get tripped up with it.
So what does it mean to live within your means?
You have to know what your budget is.
So how many of you have actually created a budget?
Raise your hand if you haven't, it's okay.
Raise your hand if you actually have created
a financial budget for yourself.
Awesome, okay.
That is like, let's see,
about 45 of you have raised your hand.
So that's about a third of you.
Okay, lower your hands.
I'm gonna lower the hands.
How many of you consistently,
let me lower those hands real quick.
How many of you consistently live by your budget?
What did I know Nitin was gonna raise his hand?
I just could tell he had that personality.
Okay, so that is maybe 25% of the crowd, right?
So it's really hard.
How many folks, so I'm gonna lower all the hands.
Okay, I'm gonna lower the hands.
Here's your next question.
How many of you are scared to put a budget together
because you just don't wanna see it?
You're like, I just can't even face that number.
That's just, that's gonna give me heart palpitations.
I wouldn't even know where to begin.
That's okay too.
All right.
I am going to
uh, uh, uh, uh,
pull up a budget I did for y'all.
Blank budget.
I'm gonna pull it up
and I'm gonna go ahead and share the screen.
So here's what it takes to do a budget.
Now there are lots of great apps to do it too.
And let me.
Where did I go?
Where did my little budget go?
Hold on, see, I thought I shared.
Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.
Let me stop sharing for just a second.
I'll get my file up.
There we go.
All right, so there's a lot, there's a couple of sources
and I was actually gonna, you know,
Jackie and I kind of went back and forth
and Dave and I went back and forth
about whether or not I was gonna share some apps out there.
But so many, there's so many different ones out there.
I didn't want to necessarily be held
kind of like accountable to it,
but all you have to do is Google
and find out about money apps.
But here's what I'm gonna make available to you guys.
Here's the very least that you need to do.
I want you to create a column of what you think,
you've never seen this, right?
I want to create a column of what you think your income is.
Now, this whole less reserve for taxes,
that's if you are 1099, you have to do on your own taxes.
Otherwise, if you already know what your net income is,
that's your take-home pay.
Here's the kind of things I need you to for one month.
For one month, we're gonna encourage you
to look at your budget.
You're gonna look at all of the things.
Now, they may not come to you.
You may not have all of these.
Your mortgage might be a rent.
Many people have their mortgage
that has their taxes insurance included in it.
Do you have an HOA?
Do you have a car?
A car payment, car insurance, car gas, cars, repairs,
cleaning.
Do you have medical insurance, medical bills,
medical prescriptions, short-term disability,
long-term life insurance?
Do you have a therapist, a fitness coach, other?
Let's talk about your subscriptions,
your TV and streaming apps, your gym,
things like last year single and online dating,
Spotify, Netflix, Pandora, Marco Polo, games, others.
Do you have a pet?
Pet are not for you.
Do you have a pet?
Pet are not, pets are not free.
Dog food, dog insurance, dog medical,
doggie daycare, doggie grooming,
your grocery store, the drug store.
And I put the groceries for your grocery store.
It could be Costco, wherever you shop.
Everyday items for your like,
if you go to the CVS or Target for your shampoo and stuff,
you're gonna wanna put that in there.
And then I put like other items.
Ladies, we all have our online subscriptions
for skin, hair and makeup.
Do you get your hair done, your nails done, your skin?
Do you get a massage?
All of the things.
And then entertainment, dining out,
entertainment, clothing, gifts, travel.
Do you have credit cards at a store?
Do you have a savings?
Do you have 401k?
Now your 401k might already be coming out in your paycheck.
Do you tithe?
Do you give a nonprofit organization?
So kind of like, so that, and then I also do this.
I personally mark off which things are auto-draft,
which things I have set up as a bill pay,
which things I write out a check for, I give online.
Do I use Venmo?
Do I use debit card?
Do I use cash?
So it's gonna be the first thing you're doing.
It's like, what do you think it is?
And then for a whole month,
you're gonna find out what the truth is.
So this is just one way to do it.
I'm gonna make that spreadsheet available to you guys
because in the fitness world, when we track our macros,
one of the things our coach says to us
is you have to count all BLTs.
That means bites, licks, and tastes.
So a lot of times when you're cooking,
you don't count the lick of food,
but you can like, you know,
you can make cake for your husband or your children.
And you're like, oh, I had none of the cupcakes,
but you forgot that you licked the bowl like four times.
So you probably ate 300 calories just by licking the bowl.
And so the same applies here
when you're putting together your budget.
If you're gonna look at your budget for a month,
you've gotta look at every little thing
that you spend money on.
The first month is just about becoming honest with yourself.
I'm not even asking you to change your habit
in the first month.
The first month, we're just asking you to look at it.
I can tell you some of the suggestions,
and then once you take a look at it,
are you spending more than you're making?
Can anything come off that list?
If nothing can come off that list
and you've already tweaked it,
are you willing to get another part-time job?
There are so many ways.
Jackie has been so honest about her days with DoorDash
and stuff over the years.
Are you willing to do a side hustle?
DoorDash, Uber, grocery shopper, retail, restaurant,
dog walking, y'all, you can make 20 bucks an hour
walking a dog for like a lunch break.
You can make some serious cash walking dogs.
If you truly do not make enough money,
you're gonna have to think about a way and humble yourself.
Y'all, I have been willing to do just about anything
in different seasons of my life.
I'll go clean the toilets.
if I have to, like, do not be so prideful
that you're not willing to do what it takes
to match your revenue with your expenses.
The other tip that a lot of investors will tell you to do
is if you are miscellaneous spending,
that miscellaneous spending is through the roof,
do it in cash.
We live in a Venmo debit card world
and the data is clear that we spend, spend, spend
because we don't see the cash dwindling down.
And so after you do your budget,
you found that, oh my gosh,
I spend 500 bucks just on miscellaneous crap.
Like I just whip out my debit card, I just whip it out.
I want you to consider pulling out $400
at the beginning of the month in cash
and start learning how to pay cash everywhere you go.
Believe it or not, some of us are old enough.
That's actually the way we used to have to pay for stuff.
And so if you definitely use your debit card too much
or Venmo too much or online spending too much,
I encourage you to consider cash as a way to do it.
So learning to live within your means,
that's super important.
The other is invest wisely.
I will say this to you guys.
I was so embarrassed to go meet with a financial planner.
How many people think you have to have a lot of money
to go meet with a financial planner?
Right?
There's a lot of shame around that.
Like, it's kind of like,
you know how people believe you got to clean your house
before the cleaning person comes over
because you don't want the cleaning person
to see how messy your house is.
So you clean before they come over.
That's how a lot of us feel
about meeting with a financial planner.
You guys, that's what they're there for.
If you think that like, oh my gosh,
I don't have enough money,
go contact your local library,
contact your community resource center,
and you will find that there are churches,
financial planners that will help you sit down
with your budget no matter what your budget is.
Even if it's like a hot mess,
if you don't know how to manage your finances,
just like if you don't know how to manage your health
or your nutrition or your exercise,
you're going to go get help.
So if everything I'm saying tonight
has made you like kind of queasy,
and you're just like, I don't even know where to begin.
Renee, I'm not a finance person.
I don't even know how to use Excel.
It's like, that's really pretty that you show that to me,
but I got nothing.
So then that's why you need to sit down
and be willing to let other people help you and guide you.
They will help put you on a budget.
So don't wait to do that.
I will say this to you guys,
and this is especially if you're younger
and you're working for a company with 401k.
You guys, I of course was the CEO of Hope Clinic,
and I used to see how much people invested in our 401k.
Hope Clinic matched up to 8% of people's 401k.
Do you know how many people never,
ever took any of that money?
I would budget for it in our expenses year after year.
Everybody taking the full 8%.
I'm lucky if a third of the people took 2%.
So you are leaving money on the table.
I don't care if you've only got 10 bucks
to put in your 401k, but if your company is matching,
you are throwing money away
by not investing any of that money.
So that's what we wanna talk about, living with your means.
So it's living within your means and investing wisely.
The second one is eliminating debt.
We really need to learn how to eliminate debt.
Let me read you two verses on that.
Proverbs 22, seven.
The rich rules over the poor,
and the borrower is a slave of the lender.
Romans 13, eight.
Oh, no one anything except to love each other
for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
So you're like, okay, great, Renee, how do I do that?
You know, actually one of the,
I'm not at, Dave Ramsey does financial freedom.
I'm not like, and he's actually right down the street
from me and actually know him.
I don't love everything that Dave Ramsey says.
I think some debt is good, like a mortgage debt,
but his financial freedom is a great program.
And believe it or not, there are programs like that again,
that are free for you through your library,
through your community.
One of the ways that he encourages for you to do that
is kind of like that snowball effect.
If you've got five credit cards,
you pay minimum on the larger ones,
and you look at the one with the smallest balance,
and you're gonna start to pay that one off first.
So say everything else gets, you know, a hundred bucks,
but you're gonna put, you know,
150 bucks a month or whatever towards this one.
And then as soon as you pay off that one,
you take the money that was going into that one
and add it to the next one.
And then you can add it to the next one.
Sometimes people are gonna pick the one
with the highest percent.
If you own a home,
you may wanna consider getting a home.
equity loan to consolidate all of that debt. Because if you're paying a 22% credit card fee
and you can get a home equity loan for 8%, you're going to immediately start saving money. Now,
that doesn't mean you keep the credit cards going while you're working off the home equity loan.
It means you shut down the credit cards while you pay off the home equity loan.
I know other people have consolidated onto one credit card. They've transferred all the balances
to one credit card and they closed all of the other ones out. The other thing that you guys
can do, even though sometimes it's good to have a credit card, you can actually call them and
lower the balance. So sometimes if you've been racking up credit card debt, they might go,
oh my gosh, you just qualified for $25,000. You call them and you're like, get no, don't give me
a $25,000 credit limit. You're going to knock that sucker back. And so you want to be able to do that.
The other thing that Dave Ramsey will talk about is while you're paying off your debt,
and I didn't really believe this for the longest time, but it really makes sense.
For the longest time, when I was just paying off student loan debt and paying off debt,
I wasn't saving anything and I wasn't putting any money into my 401k. And thank God,
healthy financial people spoke into my life. They're like, start your savings account,
start your 401k while you're paying off your credit card debt. Even if it's just 10 bucks a
month, just start it, just start it. And obviously God talks about, and scripture talks about tithing
10%. And so that's something that you're like, Renee, there's no way in heck I can get to 10%.
So you might be looking at 10%. So I, every month I'm actually looking about like, okay,
Renee, can I have 10% going to my debt? Can I have 10% going to my 401k? And can I have 10%
going to my tie? Maybe I can't right now, but maybe I can start with 1%. Maybe I can start with
$10. But starting the mindset of saving money for your present and saving money for the future is so
important. The reason why we want to save at least that first thousand dollars as a rainy day fund,
you need, like if the tire goes, your HVAC goes, you want to learn that you can start to pay for
that stuff with your own cash and not your credit card. So it's super important that you start to
save money, even while you're paying down debt, you want to be able to do that. So when you got,
when you go back to that budget that we talked about before, if you have zero for savings,
zero for tithing, you're not making enough money. You want to make sure that you make enough to put
a little bit towards it. And then the next principle is to give generously. So I want to
teach you to give generously. That's how you have an abundant life. Matthew 6, 19 to 21,
do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and where thieves
break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust
destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your
heart will also be. And then Acts 2, 44 to 45, and all who believed were together and had all things
in common and they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to
all as any had need. And so I want you to think about, and you know, when I, when I always would
do the ask at the big fundraising event, I always used to say, I would like you to now consider
giving your time, talents and treasures. So sometimes when you don't have the money, that
nonprofit, your church would love your time. They would love your talent. Say you have a business
and you're like, oh my gosh, you know, I've got this great bookkeeping business. I can donate two
hours a week to my church, or I could do this. You know, like right now you guys, I'm going to
seminary. So I am not working full time. I am not giving financially to my church like I normally do.
So I make sure I go donate three hours a week. I go help in operations behind the scenes. Nobody
sees me. It's grunt work, but it's stuff that I know how to do. And they're so grateful that I'm
willing to give of my time because you guys, I know what my hourly rate is when I'm working. So
it's like, uh, when I look at how many hours I'm donating to the church in the middle of the week
with this kind of grunt work, I'm like, they're getting a really good tie that of that. So always
consider how you can give your time, your talents and your treasures. All right. I'm going to bump
you into a breakout room now, and I want you to write these questions down. So this is what you're
going to do. You're each going to get, you're going to be in a group of four people and we're going to
leave you there for 20 minutes. And it's like 10 minutes before the hour. So 10 minutes after the
hour, we're going to come back and then we only have like 10 more minutes after that. So I promise
that we're going to kind of make that coming back super important. Here's your first question.
In my home growing up, money was.
So make sure you're writing those questions down
because I know once we're gonna break out,
you're not gonna see them.
In my home growing up, money was.
Your second question,
when I think about my financial future, dot, dot, dot.
When I think about my financial future, dot, dot, dot.
Third question, when it comes to money,
I would like to improve my dot, dot, dot.
When it comes to money, I would like to improve my dot,
dot, dot.
And then the fourth and final question,
one or two specific actions I could take
in the next 30 days is dot, dot, dot.
So commit to doing one thing different in the next 30 days.
Now, if you guys are in a completely,
you're like, oh my gosh, I'm in a great financial position.
Just think of one thing.
Maybe God wants you to be more generous.
So the first question in my home growing up, money was.
When I think about my financial future,
that's the second one.
Three, when it comes to money,
I would like to improve dot, dot.
And four, what's one specific action
I can take in the next 30 days.
So we do this breakout just like you do Heart Connect.
There's gonna be four people.
One person, very quickly, be willing to be the leader.
Somebody else be willing to time it.
You get one minute to answer the question.
Top of mind, kind of what,
so this is not a time for you to share your drama,
trauma, financial debt situation with everybody else.
These are really like kind of give your answer
and then call on the next person.
Everybody answers the first question.
Everybody answers the second.
Everybody answers the third.
Everybody answers the fourth.
If you don't get to all four questions, I will say this.
If it looks like you're gonna run out of time,
jump to question number four.
I really want everybody to walk away with an action item.
So I'm gonna get the breakout rooms ready.
While I'm getting that ready,
does anybody have a quick question for me
about the breakout room?
Let's see, we have, let me see how many people we've got.
First, let's see what our head count is.
All right, all right, so 125 groups.
Breakout rooms.
I'm really kind of bummed you guys
because a bunch of people jumped off.
I don't like, talking about money is really hard.
All right, I've opened all the rooms.
You've got 20 minutes.
Go enjoy your time.
Try to be honest, be loving, be kind.
What's said in the room stays in the room.
Okay.
Where am I?
I don't think I've been put in a room.
Everybody's been put in a room, sweetie.
Look at you. Where am I?
There's a thing that's popped up
that should tell you where to go.
Some of you guys haven't found your room yet.
Oh, my window popped up, but then it disappeared.
Lauren, you need to go, Larissa, you go to room three.
I'm trying to find you, girl.
Sarah, you are room 18.
Sarah, you should have seen something pop up.
Thank you.
Candy, did you just hop on?
Yes, I was on here and then I had to hop off for a few minutes.
Let me bump you into.
Let me see if I like, let me bump you into. There's a group that only has two people let me bump you into 24.
Okay, what are they doing?
Oh, they're answering some questions that they haven't written down. So go on over there. Yep. Great. Thanks.
Okay.
Hi, I think I got kicked out or something happened I've been trying to log back in. Is there a group for me.
Yeah, there's one that's only got a few people in it so let me bump you to room 24, because I just sent candy there too so.
Here you go.
Okay.
Okay, well we are back from our breakout and as soon as I'm done with this summary of what's appropriate to ask at each stage of the dating relationship.
I wanna hear from you guys.
I was able to actually scan the chat
while you all were in the breakout
and you guys had some really good suggestions,
really good ideas, really good answers
and I'm really proud of you.
I know finance is not a sexy topic.
It's not easy.
We would rather be talking about fun dating
and like woo-hoo kind of fun stuff.
But you guys, finances can be like the number one,
if not number two reason why people get a divorce
or their marriage falls apart because it impacts.
So many areas of a relationship.
And so no matter where you're at with your finances,
you wanna just have an honest time with God about that.
And so I'm so grateful that you all stayed and you are here.
So we're gonna talk about the kinds of questions
you can ask at level two dating,
level two early, later, level three early, later.
Okay, so level two early dating.
So remember, if you're coming here from phase two,
you're in phase two, you're like,
I don't remember what level two is.
Level two is discovery dating.
Okay, so it's discovery dating.
You're talking to more than one person.
So let me be clear, and this is not just money,
nothing in the first month,
you're not asking financial questions
in the first month or two of getting to know somebody,
level two discovery dating.
This is not the time to go into deep conversations
about your exes, your finances, sex, your trauma,
and your triggers.
You guys are telling your dates too soon
about your triggers.
Like, oh my gosh, that's a trigger.
Well, you can't explain a trigger
without telling the trauma.
So that is not level two discovery dating.
That is just not level two discovery dating.
Oh, Jen, I'm so glad to hear that.
And so keep it light.
So remember, level two dating
is getting to know who they are today.
When you talk about your past,
it's like, where do you went to school?
What did you do growing up?
What kind of activities did you do?
What kind of hobbies did you have?
What are your favorite memories?
You know, where did you live?
When you talk about your past, it's always high level.
Like, where do you like to do?
Like, what is important to you today?
What do you wanna do in the future?
So level two discovery dating, high level.
It's really hard in the early part of level two dating
to go into finances.
But now you're like, okay, I'm a month in,
I'm four dates in with this gal or guy.
We're talking about being exclusive.
But I need to know that like,
and Janet, I think there's a couple of people on here.
You're like, been there, done that.
I'm not dating a guy with debt.
And I feel y'all, like I do.
Because, you know, even Jackie has joked around
about like where they were financially
when her and David first met.
I'm like, yeah, but you were 32.
Like, I'm 56 years old.
So like, it way matters now than it did 20 years ago.
Like, there's a lot more time to catch up.
And so I get, if you're in your 50s or 60s,
that where somebody is financially
and how they handle money matters.
Because if they're in their 60s,
they have a lot of these habits that are not changing.
So here are some questions that are appropriate to ask
if you're thinking about being exclusive with them.
So feel free to write them down.
I got my little scribers.
You can say, hey, Candy,
without us disclosing our current financial status,
I would love to ask, you know, ask some questions
and let me know if you're open to having this conversation.
How do you feel about following a budget?
Do you have a budget?
Do you like having a budget?
Do you think it's crazy?
Do you kind of have one?
Are you a budget kind of person?
How do you feel about tithing?
How do you feel about saving for a rainy day?
How do you feel about how much
you wanna have for retirement?
Do you believe that you're gonna actually get to retire?
And is any of this a priority to you?
You guys, it's okay to find out before you go exclusive,
if you're dating somebody who doesn't believe in tithing.
And they might say, well, I believe in tithing,
but like only that 2% or net taxes.
Like no information they're giving you
is bad information or wrong information.
You're just starting to discover
what their relationship to money is.
You can also say, how do you feel about using credit cards
and holding a credit card balance?
Do you believe in purchasing items that are financed
like a house, a car, furniture?
House and a car, pretty normal.
But furniture, vacations, not so normal.
But there are some people that don't even believe
that you should finance a car.
They kind of feel like you should save money.
And when you have enough money to pay cash for a car,
you get a car that at least a few.
years old. So these are the kinds of questions you can ask in level two. What's your relationship
with money? Do you follow a budget? How do you feel about tithing, saving, retirement? How do
you feel about credit cards? Again, you couch it at the front end. You're like, look, I know we're
not ready to start disclosing our information. I'm just looking to see what you think about this
stuff. So you want to say it ahead of time because you don't want them to start disclosing their
money because you might not be ready to disclose your money. Because remember, this is somebody
that you're not yet in an exclusive relationship. So you've been doing the discovery dating,
but you're like, I'm not going to even settle in exclusively if we don't feel the same way
about money. So this is where you start to find out their posture about money. Okay,
so now you've liked what they've had to say. Now you're in level three, exclusive dating.
Now, the minute you go exclusive, you don't immediately want to jump the gun on finance,
just like you don't immediately jump the gun on sex. So the next thing that you're going to ask,
so this is about midway through. You're starting to have more serious conversations. You might be
having conversations about parenting. You might be having conversations about, golly, well,
if we did get married, how do you feel like the mom could be at home? Do you feel like both people
need to be working? How do you feel about traditional gender roles? You might be tossing
those questions out there just to feel, right? So some of you are. If you're tossing those
questions out, here are more specific questions you can start to ask. Do you feel like you are
in target with your financial goals? Are you ahead? Are you behind? Again, you're not asking
for details in general. What are your, some of your financial goals in the next five years?
What are your retirement goals? What are some of your financial goals? And so you guys,
here's how you can say, here's how you can, like, if someone says to you, like, maybe you're getting
that question and you know, you're like, Erin, you're like, oh my gosh, what if I got that
question? How would I answer that without giving out too much information? So here's what I would
say for the next five years. All right. So I am in school. So I would say, you know what, right now
while I'm in seminary, I've actually paused, like I'm not working full-time on purpose. So I have
room for school. So I've paused saving and 401k, but I am committed to living within my means. I
make sure that I'm not going into debt in this season. So as soon as I'm out of school, I plan
on getting, you know, being full-time again, at least for the next seven years. So I can resume
my retirement and my savings. And, you know, my goal is to have, you know, enough between that
and my social security that I'd be able to live. I don't know if I'll be able to do that at 60 or 65
or 70, but you know, kind of that's my goal. So Erin, I've just told you a little bit about my
financial situation without telling you exactly about my financial situation. Does that make sense?
Like it kind of gives you an idea of it, but it's not divulging too much. I've not told them how much
is in my savings. I've not told them how much is in my retirement yet. I'm just starting to give
some answers. Here's another question. Do you have any areas that you have learned about with finances
or you've changed in the last few years? Because you might have somebody who might say something
like, you know what, when I was married the first time, we did not budget. We did not plan. And when
we got divorced, we just both got slaughtered. And I've really been starting over for the last
three years. I've put myself on a budget. I'm doing this. And I'm really proud of the decisions
I've been making in the last few years. And I really have plowed my way out of debt. And now
I'm starting to save. Like those are good answers because you're hearing somebody, again, you're not
getting the detail of how much debt, you're not getting into the detail, but you're starting to
hear what their mindset is. And now you're getting closer towards the end of maybe this
might be the guy. Hey, if you were getting remarried again, especially because you went
of what you went through in the past, how do you feel about combining assets? Are you a fan
of combine everything, prenup? Do you feel like there should be three checking account, yours,
mine together? How do you feel about that? And like no pressure. I'm just curious. You're
starting to ask those questions. You're level three. Now, again, that's like heading towards
the end of level three. You're thinking about Simbis. You're thinking about getting engaged.
So level three, marriage minded, y'all are like pre-engaged. And I will say this, you guys,
this is my opinion. I think you need to have the hard conversations
about finances before you put that ring on anyone's.
and you find out.
You wanna make sure you know what you're getting into.
So in my last relationship
that I went all the way through Simbis with
a couple of years ago, we talked about money.
I was very transparent about what I was making,
what my savings were, what my goals were.
He, in theory, was very transparent with me.
Although some of the data was not adding up,
and I'm a finance girl,
and I could tell some of his answers
weren't adding up, and we were about to take Simbis,
and I knew finance was gonna come up and Simbis was like,
you know, I'm just gonna wait.
I'm gonna see how this plays out.
And then we get to the finance section,
and the finance week.
And that's when I started to see all the holes
in his story about the budget and about issues.
And so here was one of the best questions I ever asked him
during the financial disclosure conversation.
If we meet with a financial planner
and she starts to ask you questions,
will I find out new information?
Will I find out new information?
Because I said, you're trying to trip me up,
and I'm a finance girl.
I already know what I'm doing.
Will, oh no, oh no.
Okay, okay.
And y'all, we had a meeting with the financial planner.
She asked him hardcore questions,
and I just sat there like this, like popcorn.
I was just listening to this answer.
Y'all, he lied, he lied.
And the bummer was,
if he had just told me the truth from the get-go,
it was actually information I could have handled.
I don't wanna tell his story,
because it's not.
All right, let me see who needs to be muted.
I have a couple of people that need to be muted.
Let me go.
Okay.
And so I wanna make sure.
So here are some good Simbis marriage type of questions
that you can start to ask.
It is now time to start disclosing
your financial situation,
your obligation to your ex,
and your obligation to your children.
You may have adult children.
You may have already put them in the will.
They may already have a trust.
So if you are talking marriage,
you are getting ready to get engaged,
you are in the middle of Simbis,
you need to start disclosing the truth and the details.
You need to be prepared
to visit a financial planner together.
You need to start making financial goals together.
And you need to discuss now
how you guys are gonna manage.
All those questions we asked at the beginning,
who's paying the bills, who's managing the budget,
who's talking about taxes, who's talking about investing.
That's when you find out, I hate doing it.
I love doing it.
That's when you start to find that out.
So does that help kind of give the tier of questions
that you start to ask?
Because this is very personal stuff.
Women and men have been swindled out of money
because they've disclosed their financial position too soon,
or they've been taken advantage of.
So we wanna make sure you are smart and protective
with your financial information.
Okay, I wanna open it up to questions,
comments, clarifications.
Just go ahead and raise your avatar hand
and I will call on you.
Or if there was something that somebody said
during the breakout, you're like,
oh my gosh, that was genius.
I'm okay if the best thing you learned
was something in the breakout.
It don't need to be about me.
We just wanted to foster good conversation.
Anything that somebody, Heather, go ahead.
You're still muted though.
I just wanted to say your advice about going to a church,
your own church or community to find financial advisors
is spot on.
I was very surprised to find an estate planner guy
at my church.
And I'm like, I was intimidated going, you plan estates?
Well, I'm just a little old me.
I'm a school teacher, but I don't do spreadsheets.
And could you just look at my budget?
And I just gave him everything.
I did it totally, imperfectly.
He made the whole budget for me.
We ended up even talking about dating
and he and his wife are precious, you know,
sneaking into my life.
Yeah.
I love that, Heather.
Thank you for saying that because you know what?
There's a lot of guys that are retired CFOs
that are on the finance team at the church.
And that's just their way of giving back to the community.
That's exactly who he is.
He used to work for Warner Brothers
and now he just helps brothers and sisters at church.
I love it.
Thank you for that.
So you guys, everybody can find somebody
to help them with their finances.
That's awesome.
Any other questions, ideas, comments?
Melissa.
So just to clarify, were you saying to have a lot
of the financial conversations
before the ring goes on your finger?
Hey, that's just me.
I mean, I feel like I am not gonna,
I feel like at 56 years old, I.
I'm not gonna say yes to marriage.
If I say yes to marriage and then a day later,
I find out that he's a million dollars in debt,
I got a problem with that.
Or he owes the IRS a half a million dollars
or he's not filed his taxes in five years.
I got a problem with that.
Like for me, finance is a pretty big thing.
So for me, I can't tell you guys that,
but for me, I think you need to start
unpacking some conversation about that.
Now, I'm not saying that he's shown you his bank statement,
but he's giving you an idea.
You guys are being really clear at this point.
I'm not saying you've showed W-2s
and you've showed your bank statements,
but you've been very, very honest with where you're at.
That's just me.
Now again, I'm not saying you whip out
your account statements.
I'm saying you have the very honest conversation.
Here's how much money I make.
Here's how much I have in savings in my retirement.
Here's how much I have in debt.
So you're starting to be more verbally honest
about your financial position.
I think that's very different
than handing over account codes.
Okay, make sense?
Oh yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
You bet.
Alani.
Hey Renee, thanks so much.
Let's see.
I don't quite have my question formulated,
but I did write an update on this topic
on the weekly roll call.
And the topic of what do you do for a living came up
and how his lifestyle came up.
And I wasn't judging him,
but I could tell off the bat that I was worried
that he was not gonna be the type that could provide
if I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom
when kids came or something.
So I was not gonna give him another date.
The advice that was given to me
was like give him another chance.
Like, how do I know his financial state, et cetera?
But I was already like, no, thanks.
Just curious.
I would say this,
don't assume to know what their financial position is.
You don't know how much he's made in investments.
You don't know how much money he's getting.
He might be getting like,
his parents might have them in their will
and he's getting a million dollars.
He might be getting, he might be coming into money.
So you don't know.
So I think it's okay.
But here's a great way to ask that question early.
Like you're dating a guy and you're not sure,
like, hey, are you considering,
are you open to having children one day?
Cause I would like to have children one day.
Yes, yes.
Cause that's a question you would kind of ask
pretty early on, right?
Hey, how do you feel about the wife staying home?
Is that something that you would be supportive of?
Oh yeah, I would totally be supportive.
So like, do you feel like you would be okay
then being the major breadwinner of a marriage
if your wife was staying at home?
That's how you can ask the conversation
to kind of see how he feels about that,
because that's his opinion,
whether it's you or somebody else.
So the truth is you may have already felt enough no's,
but we just never know, right?
Like we never know.
Not to mention you guys,
don't assume because like somebody's blue collar
that they can't make it.
Like my, both of my,
I come from a family of blue collar workers.
My brother owns an electrician business.
He has put three kids through college.
He just paid for two weddings.
His mortgage is paid off and Melissa has never had to work.
So don't assume that because his hands are dirty
and he doesn't wear a suit,
that he can't pull in the dough.
Tiffany.
Hey, so this is just an opinion.
If you choose to go down the prenup route,
which I don't necessarily believe in,
well, I really don't believe in prenups,
but if you choose to.
I don't either, but I figured it's a question
people might ask.
Right.
If someone chooses to do it,
pay attention to the negotiation phase of it
and who's negotiating for him.
Is it him negotiating?
Is it his lawyer?
And pay attention to how they talk to you.
Pay attention to what you will not get
and how they,
because people can say whatever they want to say,
but when they're kind of going through a divorce
and I've never been married or divorced,
but sometimes people don't care about you
when they're going through a divorce and they're not nice.
So just pay attention to that negotiation phase.
And if it gets lengthy, you might not want to do it.
I mean, speaking from experience,
it's like, what am I doing here?
That's really good.
It's really good.
I feel like the negotiation in any kind of contract,
the longer a negotiation takes,
the more that negotiations can happen.
Even when I've tried to hire people,
the longer that contract negotiation goes on,
I'm like, eh, this is probably not good.
Jackie has offered a really good alternative to a prenup
because she's not a fan of prenups either.
If you have, like, especially if you're divorced
and you've got grown kids.
way to get around a prenup is to say like, look,
and I would be okay.
Like if I married a guy who has kids and grandkids,
if he says to me, Renee,
I really feel like my kids and my grandkids
should get the lion's share of the wealth that I created.
I'm gonna go ahead and put a trust in for them
so that if I die, the kids and the grandkids get this,
but everything else is gonna be in your name.
And so I will make sure that I'm also gonna
well take care of you.
So that is a way around a prenup
is that you can set aside estate money
designated to your children and your grandchildren
that kind of carves that part of your wealth to the side
so that if you marry somebody and it goes South,
that money for them is still protected.
Joanna.
Hey, it's Johanna.
Johanna, sorry.
That's okay.
Okay, so my question has to do with,
and this could be that he had this particular person
in my past was a very type A kind of pushy,
a little bit narcissistic tendencies.
I wouldn't say he's a full blown narcissist,
but I remember him asking, pushing pretty hardcore
in month two of our relationship,
like really wanting to go into those questions
about how much money,
like really wanting to get those details on me.
And back then, I didn't handle that so well.
I felt trapped and I was like,
but you know, like just wasn't prepared.
And I'm thinking now I'm just wondering
what are some good strategies?
What are some good tools?
If you do, that could be a yellow or red flag.
Yeah, that's a great, thank you so much for asking.
That's a really great question.
So a lot of times when I get questions
that are good questions, but it's too soon,
I try to affirm that first.
Like, oh my gosh, that is a really great question.
That's actually really important to me too.
I just feel like we're too early
in getting to know each other for me to disclose that.
However, I would like to, you know,
answer that question somewhat for now.
So here's what I can tell you
about how I feel about that now.
Here's what I feel comfortable telling you,
but I also would love to hear a little bit more from you
because you are asking this question pretty early on.
Have you had a negative,
did something in your past negatively affect that?
Do you have concerns that you wanna make sure
don't happen again?
Tell me a little bit more what's behind these questions.
So I tried to turn,
A, I tried to affirm them that they're great questions,
that it's probably a little too soon.
And I tried to figure out what part of that question
I'm willing to answer.
And I'm gonna say, look,
I promise you well before we would get down
any kind of too serious of an approach,
I feel like we would happily disclose that information
a little bit more.
Here's what I'm comfortable sharing now.
But I am really curious
because that is a very personal question.
Is there a part of your past where it's happened
that you're gonna be bringing in some of,
do you still have any fears about that?
I'm just really curious.
I'd love to know more kind of
what's underneath these questions.
It might tell me a little bit more
about why you're asking them so early.
Yeah, that's really great.
So it's kind of like, and that you guys,
those are the, that's how I would ask,
answer any question about,
tell me about your ex-boyfriends.
Tell me why you've never been married.
Tell me about this.
Like, gosh, that's a great question.
I would wanna know the answer to that too.
It's just not time for that.
But here's what I can tell you.
And I promise at the appropriate time,
we can bring that back up.
That's my answer.
Cause a lot of you guys ask that question
over and over again.
How do I not get into the deep conversations?
That's how you do it.
You say, great question.
It's appropriate.
Not now.
Here's what I'm willing to tell you.
Let's unpack that again later.
So what if, oh, I'm sorry.
I thought you were.
But now to your point though,
if they go, yeah, that's not good enough.
I need your answer right now.
I think you can just say,
then I'm not comfortable with that.
And so I feel like we're kind of at a crossroad
and if you need to move on,
then I respect that.
I'll be disappointed, but I understand it.
Is that where you were about to?
Oh, what I was about?
I was gonna go the other way.
What if it opens the Pandora box to the past
and all those fears that are behind that?
How would you know?
Yeah, that's also a great question.
And what you may need to preface it with,
because up until now,
you probably have already learned
if they are a vomiter, right?
Like up until now, like you learn pretty quickly
if people are gonna.
share too much right away.
And so to your point,
like the guy that I most recently dated,
he just shared way too much.
Just, it was like, I was constantly reining it in.
And so I would just say like, look,
I do not want the details.
So please don't go down into the weeds.
But overall, tell me a little bit.
If he does start to go into the weeds,
you can be like, like, I've literally had to do this.
Okay, you're going into the weeds.
You know what?
I'm going to withdraw my question.
Sometimes I've said, I'm going to withdraw my question
because I really wanted you to stay high level,
but I can tell for you, you're not able to do that.
Which is why I want all of you guys
to learn how to tell pieces of your story
without going into detail.
Because we all need to learn the art to do that.
People are going to ask about your parenting,
your jobs, your exes.
They're going to ask you uncomfortable questions
and you have to learn the art of sharing enough
of the story to give them an answer
without vomiting the whole story.
And the more we can show doing that,
then they might be able to model that in return.
Thank you.
Great question, great question.
Anybody else?
Otherwise, I'm going to pray us out of here.
I'm so proud of you guys.
Thank you guys all for staying.
Actually, Erin Joy, would you mind closing us out in prayer?
You're just like right there on my screen.
Happy to.
Lord, oh Lord, you are equipping us so well
for the futures you want us to have.
And you are giving us wisdom to do the financial things
with our spouses beautifully and well
and in ways that glorify you.
And as we get ready for that,
sometimes we are going to have to look
at uncomfortable things in ourselves or our partners.
And so we thank you in advance for giving us the wisdom
and the courage to do that and do that well
and do that at the right time
and do that with a beautiful care
for the other person in their heart.
Thank you for this time with Renee.
Thank you for everything that she's shared.
Please help us to remember what's important for our lives
and to take that step that we intend to do
in the next 30 days.
Amen.
All right, you guys have a great week.
God bless you all.