Good evening, guys.
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir.
Hello.
I was on a Zoom call earlier today,
and for some reason, my microphone
wasn't going the way I wanted it to do.
And I just want to make sure.
How's everybody doing tonight?
Good, good.
Thumbs up.
Sound good?
Good.
I like it.
Probably a couple other guys going to join us here pretty soon.
And I'm even recording tonight, and that's something.
I finally got that going.
There was a post that was in the men's group
that Jackie mentioned that some people had responded to,
and they thought it was interesting.
And so I thought we could start by discussing
a little bit of this.
And I haven't had a lot of time to really process it,
but I thought we would just go ahead and look at this.
Let me do this.
Let me see if I can share my screen.
Window.
You guys see that?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
I just saw that online.
I was wondering if you guys chatted about it last week.
I missed last week.
No, no, we had not chatted about this,
although it might have been posted as early as last week.
But it was six days ago.
It was posted July 2nd.
So I kind of will react to some of the comments there.
Let me get another view up here.
OK, so now I can see you guys.
I'm sharing this, so you can see this.
So biblical order of the family.
Anybody want to react to this immediately?
I put in my immediate reaction.
It just brought back a weird memory.
A weird memory?
Yeah, it's in there.
My ex-wife didn't really do it.
You made a comment on the post?
I did.
Oh, OK.
Go ahead.
My ex-wife can go to church that much,
but one of the times she did, the preacher taught on this.
And she came home very mad and saying,
no, the wife is supposed to be on top,
and it should be the children, and then
Jesus, and then the husband.
And she was just fighting on it.
And it just brought back the memory of this big,
long argument she had.
And her point being, as in the wife should be on top?
Yeah, no one should be above her.
Like literally.
Literally.
Even God.
Interesting.
And the church had it all wrong.
And the church was teaching wrong.
Oh, I see.
So that was just like a big stiff arm up,
like no, hard no, hard pass.
Exactly, yeah.
Just turn everything on its head and whatever.
Right, and then she got my daughters to agree with her,
or at least my oldest daughter at the time.
So that's a traumatic response to this vision.
Right.
It's obviously very important and very specific,
and I get that.
I haven't quite had anybody turn it on its head like that.
Yeah, the reason I'm sharing this is not really to be like,
hey, this is right, or this is a perfect example,
or anything like that.
I think the illustration is just there.
And there's a lot of different ways
that you can interpret this from different perspectives.
And I think it has a lot to do with where your family history
lies, where you have your immediate experience in maybe
a marriage relationship that you've had previous.
different things speak into that. So anybody else have a reaction to this?
I did. I just, yeah, I've definitely was taught that evangelical kind of view of the husband being,
you know, but, and then, you know, and over, I just feel it feels like,
feels like a lot of pressure, feels like it could be used for abuse. I just feel like, you know,
the Bible also talks about submit one to another. And I've kind of adopted more of an egalitarian
view that I feel in my current relationship is really empowering to both of us. And I don't
think it's unbiblical. I just think that is kind of black and white. So it kind of is a constricting
feeling that comes up in me. Like, I have to do all those things. I mean, for example, the woman
I'm dating right now, I mean, she makes, if she worked full time, she'd make more money than me.
And I'm, that's fine with me. You know what I mean? More resources, you know, I don't have to
be the one that the sole breadwinner or even the primary breadwinner. It doesn't, I don't know,
it feels like it, it can be used to feed ego. Those are some of my thoughts. Yeah. Okay.
I like the umbrella picture. I think it's a great picture of the covering. And I think,
you know, we can dig into, you know, who's in charge and all that fun stuff. But I just,
you know, from a high level, I like the Christ, Jesus is our covering, you know, we all need
that. Right. And then you get into the Ephesians five thing. And I don't know, I, when men,
you know, dominate, I think that's, that's taking it, you know, way to the extreme end.
But I think, you know, there is, God made us a certain way. He hardwired us a certain way.
And I think a lot of women want to be led in a loving way. I think Ephesians five is clear about
love and respect that works both ways. So it wasn't triggering for me. I also had my ex-wife
hated that book from Emerson Eckridge, Love and Respect. But I think he hit some, some good
points with that. And it kind of reminded me of that concept.
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is umbrellas. It's not like it's a tier of anvils,
like, you know, like weight with like, you know, like freaking like metal,
like steel plates or anything. It is, you know, an umbrella image. So there's some thought there.
I think that's, yeah, I think that's interesting. Thank you for sharing that, Justin. Who else?
Thomas, you actually responded on the, in the, in the chat there on the Facebook. What's,
what's your thoughts? Oh, man.
It's okay. Let's go there. I mean,
so this comes from Bill Gathard and the Institute for Basic Life Principles,
which was a cult that my family was in. Oh, this image does. Yes. And, and I think,
you know, I really want to respect what people are saying. You know what, what you said, Justin,
what was said kind of in some of the comments about appreciating it. I think that I appreciate
that all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. And I think that kind of like all,
I have, I have seen it used in ways that are inappropriate. I think, you know, even talking
about how it's an umbrella, I think from the starting place is not to me, you know,
kind of the most helpful view that's available. So I don't, I don't view life as a rainstorm.
And I also don't think that rain, unlike the way that Bill Gathard taught it is a bad thing.
Rain is a symbol of blessing in the Bible. Yeah, sure. And so I think that this in my family and
in a lot of other families led to the idea that the wife doesn't have direct access to Christ.
The provide for the family aspect was used to diminish Proverbs 31, that talks about women
being allowed to engage in business. There are, I think, this was used also to the person who
created this or the person who promulgated it the most, his view was that, you know,
the most important commandment in the Bible was to honor your authorities.
And that if anything was based on the fourth of the 10 commandments and that
it was the most important thing in the Bible to honor your authorities.
And I think that that was the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
And that commandment is, honor your father and mother that it may go well with you.
And so his view is that if there's anything not perfect in your life,
it's because you are not honoring your authorities enough.
And that really was a recipe for extreme distress in my life.
And it wasn't enough even just to obey.
You needed to anticipate what your authorities wanted and to do it without being asked.
And I think that there's the question of like, okay, well, but do we have to
use that person's perspective on this? Can some of this be salvaged?
But I personally really feel like this is destructive.
And I agree in the idea of covering.
I, you know, I love what you said, Paul, that submitting to each other,
although I'm more open to the idea that because of the fall,
men are to lead the family, but to do it in a way that reflects Jesus in the church,
you know, as Paul wrote about things along those lines.
But I personally would rather see a kind of image where there's like a platform
where Jesus is the foundation, which I feel like is the more biblical image.
And then Jesus builds a platform for us, you know,
and that husbands build a platform for their wives,
you know, and that parents build a platform for their kids.
So I think I appreciate the heart of people who share this diagram,
I think, and who want good things for themselves and for others and are trying to be loving.
But I think similar to some other things,
I personally feel like the spiritual residue of this is really damaging.
And I think really has led a lot of evil into the church.
Um, yeah, I honestly don't know.
I think this came across my wife's attention,
and I think she posted it for the purposes of just like sheer reaction discussion.
Yeah, right.
So just to be clear on that.
Yeah, so basically what I'm hearing you guys say is just the general,
just like, especially the sort of like, no, this isn't right,
or this is triggering, whatever.
Um, it's, it's the imagery, it's the basic, it's the basic structure of the imagery.
It's the, it's the, it's the composition of the visual that,
and then all that it implies based on, you know, some history of abuse and trauma
and that kind of thing in a religious environment that really kind of is triggering,
which I get, trust me, I get it.
I've been there, done that as well with the best of them.
I encourage you not to say that you get other people suffering in that way.
I'm not sure that you get the suffering that.
I'm not saying I get your suffering.
I'm just saying I understand religious oppression.
I would never say unless I know a person very well and in person,
and I went through something with that person that I'm like,
hey, I understand what you're going through.
So I'm not saying you, I'm just saying in general,
you understand what I'm saying, Thomas?
I think I have more of an idea.
Okay.
I can relate to it.
What's that?
Like you can relate to it, you mean?
I can relate to the idea of, um, a lot of abuse that has taken place in our modern church.
There's a lot of variations and a lot of different, um,
situations and a lot of specificity with that.
But I mean, I went to a big megachurch and the guy that I went to a big megachurch right now
is, um, not facing any kind of legal thing,
but there's a big thing on social media going around him about a, uh,
a recording of him and his staff meeting, just literally berating his staff members.
And it was very difficult for me because I've been in those meetings
in that exact situation.
And here it is still happening decades later.
And I, my heart breaks, my heart breaks for the people in that situation.
My heart breaks for, um, my time that I spent there because it's bittersweet
in the sense that there was a strong spiritual heritage and theological heritage and impartation
and God moving in my life during that season.
There was also a lot of, um, repression and religious fervor and just dogmatic, um,
adherence to authority, just like somebody else said, mentioned earlier,
like authority is like a big thing.
Do this or else, or, you know, um, or you're out of it.
It's the biggest thing I experienced.
was not necessarily, nobody ever said directly really damaging things. They would say it very
indirectly. And then the takeaway of what you heard that was said is just as powerful as what
was said. So for instance, if in the case of like giving, that's like a big, huge, you know,
hot button thing, like money in the church and, you know, like getting people to like give and
donate all that kind of stuff. If you said something like, if you don't give in this
offering, you're not going to get a miracle. You're not going to be blessed or you're not
going to be, have the blessings of God in your life. Nobody would say those exact words,
but they would paint a picture in sermonizing and really inspiring words and scripture.
And the takeaway would be, you'd leave that meeting going, boy, I really wish I would've,
I wish I really could've given. I really wish I had that money to give because if I did,
I could get my miracle. If I did, boy, I tell you what, I could, I could have a breakthrough.
I could have a blessing. It wasn't ever said, if you don't do this, this, you know, this what,
but the takeaway. And to me, I think that is just as responsible. People are responsible for their
words and their incorrect theology, but they're also correct. They're also accountable for their,
their sort of very thin line preaching that the takeaway then becomes inerrancy.
You walk away thinking something different than was supposedly was told to you on its face.
And quite honestly, it was a manipulation because you're supposed to kind of walk away with that
because, oh, I never said it, but you're supposed to walk away with the feeling of,
I wasn't enough. I didn't have enough. I didn't do enough. I didn't come ready.
I'm going to miss my thing. I'm not going to get my answer. All of that.
That's the, that's the specific kind of religion I grew up in.
So then you carry that on the rest of your life. Now you're like, I just had,
I just had a counseling appointment this morning. And my counselor was like, what do you feel like?
Sometimes I feel like, yeah, I feel like there are a lot of times I'm not enough. That's one
of the phrases, one of the negative talks in my head. I'm not enough. Never enough. You do 59
things, but should have done that one other things to make it 60 and you didn't do it enough.
Not enough. You know, you're not what we had wanted. You're great. You're great at all this
other stuff, but it's really not what we want. That's difficult guys. How many of you have that
same sort of like testimony and same response, same kind of, yeah, you know, you get it.
So when I say Thomas that I get it, that's what I mean when I get it. I'm like, yeah, I get it.
The idea of covering, I will tell you this in my personal experience,
I failed at my first marriage. And like I told you guys before, I said, you know, it's like
in the context of where I was living, what I was doing at the time, I was on full-time ministry.
And on paper, like I said, in the context of that, I looked like the good guy
and my wife left me basically. Right. But I failed my family.
I could have led my family better in a way that I didn't. This is what Jackie says all the time.
And this is a really good quote, I think. Being so agenda driven,
like you're putting agenda ahead of relationship.
What is it in my first marriage that my wife didn't have, didn't see, didn't get,
didn't know about me, that I didn't give her, that would have saved that relationship?
And given my children, original parents that didn't get divorced, and what would that have
looked like? What could I have done differently in the season of life that I was in
to make that different? That's come back to me. I've had to process it. I've had to think about
that. And then I've also had to live that out in a second marriage where those issues were also
present. It's not like all my issues went away because I got divorced, because my wife left me.
Now I'm the good guy.
Now I get to get married again.
Ah-ha-ha.
Great.
And everything's wonderful.
You hear what I'm saying?
So one of the things, though, I will tell you
is that you all know Jackie.
You all have a certain perception of her.
And she's a very strong woman.
She's very capable.
She's good with words.
She's very, she's definitely a leader.
She is a, she's a visionary.
She's just, you know, she's an amazing, inspiring woman.
Absolutely.
And she's strong in our family as well.
It's not like, you know, if you think it's like, you know,
she just sits back and like, oh, you're the husband.
And you just tell us what, you know, like, she
has to work at that a little bit.
You know, she has to like, OK, I have to like bring this
to David.
Let's pray about it.
She could just like bulldoze and just go through and just
make decisions.
Hey, that's what we're doing, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
But she does, because she's trying to,
step back and like, you know, hey,
she sees the value of me taking a lead role,
me having any kind of initiative,
me having any kind of spiritual propulsion myself.
So that's one of the greatest things I think I can tell you
is that like, I feel like there's a lot of men,
maybe not necessarily on this call,
but there's a lot of men in this world that aren't leading.
By example, they're not leading with their own relationship
with the Lord.
They're not leading in life in these ways.
And I feel like they're, not only are they missing out,
but we, the rest of us, our world,
are their families, their wives, potential wives,
girlfriends, their co-workers, the people that
are in their lives are missing out on their leadership.
They're missing out on the level of responsibility
that men have, which is played out
in one of the greatest roles in the role of a husband.
So I think one of the things that like, OK, the visual here
can be very difficult, but aside from the visual,
if you're talking about sort of this subject area with like,
you know, where is the weight of responsibility
on everybody's role, specifically
for men and for husbands, I just had a, well, I'll say,
I'll just let me finish my sentence.
For men, we are, I feel responsible.
Now that can be a very heavy laden word.
I can lay it on thick and make it
sound really bad and terrible and like, you know,
you're not measuring up and so forth.
But what I mean by that is, I don't mean an abusive, heavy,
like, you're responsible.
Like, you need to like, do this.
Like, if I were to point to this umbrella image, look,
see, you're the husband.
You're supposed to do this.
You're supposed to provide.
I could beat you up with that all day long.
But I don't think there's any value in that.
But I actually don't even think that that's
even the scriptural premise of all of that, these concepts.
But I do think there is an accepting of responsibility.
And you all know my friend Dan O. McCollum, Dan McCollum.
You might know him.
He's a well-known prophet and speaker
in prophetic circles and different kinds of churches.
But he spoke on Sunday at our church.
And he talked about two kinds of responses to the modern world,
the modern trouble and darkness that's present in our world.
We all are familiar.
There's politics.
You've got economy.
You've got societal.
You've got all the issues of the day.
You've got all the things.
We all don't have to go into depth
about the trouble and the darkness and all the stuff
that's in our world today.
And then what is our response as believers?
What is our response as Christians?
And he goes, I feel like there's two responses generally
that Christians are doing with some variability.
He goes, I feel like, and he pulled from a story
from Hezekiah, where Hezekiah, I don't know the story very well.
But Hezekiah.
showed the wealth of his kingdom to his enemies.
And his response after that was, because he was asked about it,
he said, did you show him everything?
And he goes, oh, yeah, I showed him everything.
I showed him all of it.
I showed him all the stuff.
And he was judged by that.
And it was a prophetic word given
that said that because you did that, now your enemies will
come in and steal this from you.
And it's going to be taken all from you.
And here is the interesting part of the story.
Hezekiah's response was, not my problem,
because it's not going to happen in my lifetime.
Now, you can go back and read this story if you want to,
and sort of get all the details.
But the general idea is, nah, I'm good.
It's not my problem, because it's not going to affect me.
And that was the first sort of way
that Dana was just preaching this sermon on Sunday,
talking about, hey, one of the responses
he feels like we're getting a lot from believers
is the feeling of just abdication.
Like, yeah, the world may be dark.
The world may be going to hell in a handbasket, in a sense.
But not my problem.
I'm good.
I'm saved.
I'm righteous.
I got things going for me.
I'm going to make it to heaven.
The people I care about are going to make it to heaven.
And so be it.
Yeah, those people, man, they're getting, man,
those people are bad people, wicked people.
Serves them right.
They get what they deserve, being wicked like they are
and going, you know what I'm saying?
Like, that's kind of a certain one camp
of sort of like general Christianity of like,
not my problem, not my deal.
And he said, and the other way is when you're talking
about darkness and light.
And if you look at darkness as the absence of light,
we are encouraged to what?
To be, what is it?
Light in the darkness.
And so if we conceal or cover our light, what are we doing?
We're contributing to the darkness, are we not?
And he said another response to the situation of the world
with regard to being the light and darkness,
and there were some other really good points
he laid out there, was not on my watch, not on my watch.
Now, can you solve all the problems
as an individual, as an individual Christian man
in the world?
No, you cannot.
But you can do what you can do.
You can bring light to the darkness where you're at,
however small or great your light is.
And I thought it was interesting because he then
talked about righteousness on the tail end of that.
He said, you know, he says, I think
the better response of Christians and Christian people
in the world to the events and the situation
and condition of our world is to be
taking a level of responsibility,
taking into yourself and saying, you know what?
Not on my watch.
If I can find a wife and raise a family and do the right thing
and be there for my wife and be a champion for my wife
and my children and be a strong covering and protection
for them and be the man of God for them, not to them,
but for them, laying my life down for them
as Jesus laid his life down for.
So there's a beautiful.
So yeah, when you look at a visual like this
and then you layer on a bunch of past atrocities and abuse
and trauma with it that many people have very similar,
maybe varying details, but understand like, yeah,
I get it, yeah, that could be very destructive.
But I think the truth is very much there around that.
And the truth being that there's a level of responsibility
that I think especially men can come into
and should come into.
Jackie talks about all the time that marriage
is God's maturity plan.
a level of stepping up into a maturity of like, Oh man, I've
got a responsibility here. I have something that needs my
attention that needs me. Not a put on, like as in, Hey, you
should do this, you should, you should be better, like not as a
put down, but as an invitation to level up, an invitation to be
all you can be an invitation for you to like, can I go deeper?
Can I hear God's voice clear? Can I seek him further in a
sense that like, wow, I never knew I could do this. It's like
going into the gym, and you know, doing the work, and then
finally having the breakthrough of a weight class or a certain
level of weight that you've never been able to do before.
Like having it's like doing the homework long enough for you to
be able to do whatever task that you never were able to do.
And now you broke through because now you understand it.
Now you get it. You're like, Oh, I can do this. I can do this.
Now. We've all had those types of breakthroughs in our life.
They could be even the smallest things. I mean, you learn to
walk, you learn to talk, you learn to be a human being, some
of those are the greatest breakthroughs you'll ever have
in your life. So you understand as a human being living in this
world, the invitation to level up. And so I think that's where
we're at with a lot of like men in our world today. And I've
said this before, like we're living in a day and age guys,
where like, unfortunately, good isn't good enough. And I don't
again, I don't say that legalistically or like
condemningly. I say it like as in, I'm challenged. I've been
challenged in my life to actually be the man and the
husband that I say that I am. Rather than just always trying
to like, try to be it or try to like, Oh, yeah, no, I should do
this. And I should do that. I should be better, whatever.
Instead of trying to just be better, how long does it take to
get better? You know, my focus is, is being that on its own
face, like if you were, it's kind of like the old adage, is
there enough? Is there enough information? Is there enough
details enough evidence in your life? That says who you are? That
says you're a believer in Christ that says that you're a man of
God says that you're I don't know, again, those are just so
difficult phrases, because they're so riddled with all the
religiosity and fervor, right? But you know what I mean? Is
there enough evidence to reveal the fact that you have that you
have the substance? Right? And I have been I've been accepting
this invitation to this. This is one last thing on
righteousness. Dano said, he said, there's two kinds of
righteousness, there's imputed righteousness, and there's
imparted righteousness. The imputed righteousness is the
righteousness you receive upon salvation. You could do nothing
to get it. The price has been paid, the work has been
finished, the blood has been shed to pay the price that you
could never pay. So the righteousness that was imputed
to you at the cross, is basically debts that were paid
that you owe that were paid from somebody else's account, not
your own, and not your own doing. So it's not anything that
you could have earned or made or anything, right? So we get that
and in terms of salvation. Imparted righteousness is the
righteousness that God puts inside of you to do good works,
to do the things that you can do. It's the next level. It's
like, I've been saved, and I'm good to go. And I could just
say, I'm good. I don't have to do anything. But there's
something on the inside of you that God's placed. There's a
mission, there's a call, there's a, and then again, I
don't mean in a religious preaching sort of like ministry
context. I just mean, there's something that you are supposed
to bring to the world. What is that? You can think about
career, and you can think about accomplishment, you could think
about success, that kind of thing. But I think the things
that really hold water are the things of like, fruits of the
spirit, relational legacy things. Being a good man, first
and foremost.
in your community, in your surroundings,
in your sphere of influence.
And then when you have a situation
where you're in relationship
and you take the step into ultimate relationship,
being the best husband, being the best sports system,
being the best prayer warrior for your family,
being the best champion for your wife and your kids,
raising your kids with the idea of legacy
and passing on generational wealth and spiritual wealth
financial wealth,
intelligent heritage,
passing off something that information
that's necessary for the next generation to live with.
You all hear what I'm saying today?
I wanna get some responses to that.
And I want you to feel lifted up and encouraged
by this because I feel this is where the call is
for men today.
And maybe God's already been dealing with you
about accepting that level of responsibility.
I feel like there's definitely a measure of that
because you're showing up to like this,
you're showing up,
like you wouldn't be showing up to a call like this
if you weren't leveling up to some degree.
So my question to you is like, what's the next step?
What's next?
Like, what's like, I'm gonna continue in this
or what's something new that I'm going to like
challenge myself with?
Doesn't have to be huge, but it has to be,
it could be a step in the right direction.
God's been really challenging me
with like unconditional surrender,
whatever that looks like.
Right now it feels like, I don't know,
there's just a lot of like,
there's a lot of emotion in saying that,
but like, I just got back from dinner
with a guy from church.
He's probably in his early,
maybe early forties at most.
Maybe early forties at most.
And he, five years ago,
he was strung out in Texas
and he felt his breath leaving.
And he said, no.
And I mean, he got there because of rebellion against God,
but in five years, God completely turned his life around.
And I'm looking at my life and I'm like, God, like,
what's holding me back?
And it's like unconditional surrender.
I mean, he died there, he was dead.
And like God gave him his life back.
And one thing led to another
and hearing God's voice in crazy ways.
And it's like, what's the difference between me
who grew up in church and him?
He's died.
And now his life is Christ.
And some of that have had a easier life
or haven't made as many mistakes.
I had a hard time getting to that point,
but it was very inspiring.
So die to self is the best way to be in a position
to lead a family and to be in a position
to hear God in particular.
Absolutely, that's what we all said, Chris.
Thank you for sharing that.
Because the question that you said
is probably a good wrap up question
as a round table right now,
which is like, what's holding you back?
I love that.
Thank you for that.
Let's focus on that question.
If we could all sort of like give one answer
to like what's holding you back right now.
And the second thing you said
with regard to right at the end there,
that'll come back to me in a second.
It was really good.
Thank you for sharing that.
Because I felt like that was really good.
So let's do that question, guys.
What's holding you back?
What's one thing that you might feel is holding you back?
Could be negative talk.
And specifically, it's like a specific negative talk.
It could be a habit.
It could be, dare I say, a situation.
Situations can change.
We expect situations to get better and change.
So I understand when you say,
well, I'm in a situation right now.
Okay, I get that.
But that's not what's holding you back.
Circumstances, you can always come up with circumstances
that hold you back.
But that's not what's holding you back.
What's holding you back is something on the inside.
So let me challenge you tonight.
What's holding you back?
It's the screen share, man.
It's the screen share.
If you could close it for Rob's sake.
Oh, let me, let me take that off.
Sorry, bro.
Sorry, guys.
Josh, you are too kind.
I'm just shoving that in your face with that screen.
I'm so sorry.
I repent to you.
I wanted to see faces.
That's okay.
Thanks for jumping in, Josh.
Sorry about that.
Oh my gosh.
Josh is my spokesperson.
Much better with faces.
Rob's gonna have dreams of umbrellas tonight in this space.
I think what's holding me back is unbelief.
Okay.
Unbelief in yourself, unbelief in just.
Unbelief in God.
Thinking he has the best for me.
I came to, I want my life to be great,
and I came to him thinking,
all right, God, you're gonna make my life great, are you?
Well, let's see.
Why didn't you make it great?
Ah.
Supernatural Saturday, guys.
I don't know if you were there or you heard the replay.
That was a profound message.
Jackie literally said, Jesus is not coming to rescue you.
How about that?
Jesus is not coming to rescue you.
And you might ask, well, why?
Why wouldn't he come rescue me?
Because he already did the work.
The work is actually finished on Jesus' part.
If there's anything that feels like
Jesus is coming to the rescue,
what it actually is is it's a manifestation
of something that you have now locked onto in belief,
in faith, that has manifested in your life.
Because of your actions, your faith,
or someone else's faith and action,
circumstantially, that has come to be.
So what's holding you back?
Let's get at least one little answer from everyone.
Personal wounds.
Personal wounds?
Yeah, trauma I've been through in the military.
Military, okay.
Relationship with my dad.
Guy that basically has robbed me of joy in my life.
Some of the things that used to hold me back were alcoholism
and this October will be three years sober.
Wow.
That's awesome.
And just kind of like what you were referencing, maturity.
You know, I'm sort of a big kid.
Makes that probably a tough cookie for dating some people.
And like even a gal I'm dating now
who completely accepts me for being a big kid,
is still like, well, you know, let's,
I think I should learn,
I think I should teach you how to be mean
because you know, you don't understand
some boundaries with things
and I think you need, you'd be better off with boundaries.
And I understand how to be mean, I just don't want to.
You know, I think it would just change me as a person.
Did you say how to be mean?
Yeah, mean, M-E-A-N.
Okay.
I see.
Well, thank you for sharing.
So yeah, trauma, level, just responsibility in general,
being a big kid, like loving up,
like I can't do this anymore, hold you back.
Who else?
This ought to be, this is a hard one.
I think this is another question
that I feel like I have a little bit of difficulty
with the framing.
Say, I feel like in one sense, maybe we do,
in another sense,
I feel like I've been making such good forward progress.
And I think that the,
I think something that I let go of about five weeks ago
is kind of a content addiction.
And so I think
the question of what that has been protecting me from
or anesthetizing me from, rather,
is probably a better way to say it.
I think it's still.
kind of unfolding. And so I think that right now I'm in the
middle of discovery. And I think prioritization, for sure, is
something that I have not always done well throughout my life,
and figuring out what are the important things to focus on?
And what are the less important things? I think it's a
significant growth area in my life that I'm really grateful to
be also making good progress in.
That's good. That's good. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm with you on that.
Because there's been some things I've been striding and striving
for that I've been doing better at and doing well at. And then
yet this morning, like I said, in my counseling session, I
still because he asked me, you know, what's negative talks,
like, I feel like there's that never enough sort of language
that comes in, you know, so I get it. Yeah, I understand what
you're saying there. Thank you for sharing that. Who else is?
So we'll change the question a little bit. Thanks, Thomas,
we're like, what is holding you back? Or what has been holding
you back? And you're working on right now, and you're seeing
some success in. So let's just talk about that. Because it
might, you never know, guys, it might help somebody else.
Somebody else may be thinking, oh, yeah. That is holding me
back. And so and so is already working on it. So, you know,
like, that can be encouraging.
I'll jump in, David, you've, you've now asked three questions,
by the way, just a quick question counting on my head.
I'm just trying to help. I'm just trying to
answer the first one, which is what? What I'm going to get the
answer to for real quick. I'll do I'll make it brief. What
steps are you doing to move forward some version of moving
forward? So, um, and this might seem simple to you all, but I
sat down and did some concentrated work on my core
values, so that as I enter into the dating world, I have a real
strong center. And if you asked me, like off the cuff, I'd say,
oh, it's, you know, x, y, and z. And, but to actually go through
the work of, of narrowing, and then really asking yourself,
asking myself, when does that show up? Well, and when is when
do I live outside of my core values? It was just a fun,
fun, important exercise for me that I spent some time on over
the holiday. So I'm also over the holiday, what's holding me
back, I started thinking about creating a dating profile. And
this whole idea of kind of moving the next level with
putting myself out there. And I just became paralyzed. Like,
yeah, paralyzed, thinking about the photos and reading about the
advice and the creativity that is demanded in a profile. And I,
two things showed up. One is this idea of perfectionism for
me, like the parallel parallelization, really tied to
perfectionism. But perfectionism is really just a mask to to
protect me from what's really just a fear. Fear being liked,
being loved, fear of rejection. And so yeah, so that's what's
holding me back of, I would just say, in this particular
part of my life of moving forward in the, in the dating
world. It's still a deep fear, I still seek safety, though.
Okay. Good. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I realized
that some of my feelings today are based in a scared or
fearful way. And I realized that in an exercise I did earlier
today that I might even do this next week on our call. But
which is really odd because I hate fear. Like fear. I mean, I
I'm like, whenever somebody is in a fear response, because I
just think it's so stupid. I'm not saying they're stupid. I'm
not trying to say they're stupid. I just I'm like, it's
so silly. It's like you're scared of something that really
isn't there. You know, like, you know, you know, have you ever
seen somebody just manifest in fear? You know, like, oh, this
and I just like, it just makes me so mad. And so I've just
always thought of myself as not a very fearful person. Like, I
don't like walk around like, Oh, my gosh, like things are gonna
happen. And just like, you know, I'm like, I'm just not like
that. I just like, and then I've learned, I think, in a
spiritual way to sort of even like confront fear. Like, I
just, I like, I recognize fear quickly. And I like to get in
its face. And I like I said, Get out, you know, get out of
here.
You take authority over it, take spiritual authority over it,
that type of thing.
But I realized today that some of my feelings
are rooted in a certain level of fear and scaredness.
So I just had this revelation today
and saw this irony of this fear thing.
Now I'm going to go after that because I just don't like fear.
I don't like to be.
I don't enjoy being scared.
Some people like doing that.
I do not enjoy that at all.
Anyway, so I'm just confessing some of the stuff
that I'm working through and working with right now.
Anybody else?
Who else has got something just either you're just
realizing right now, oh, man, this is in my way,
or you already know it?
What else?
Who else?
I got one, unless I want someone else to.
Hello, Hunter, are you there?
Yes.
What is yours?
Well, see, I've been struggling for 13 and 1
1⁄2 years with self-gratification or lust
and pornography.
And I'm actually doing well, more than I ever
did these couple of years.
My biggest record of going without it was nine days.
Now it's for going abroad or a couple of days
only when I'm going to be at somebody's home
or be traveling, not in my bedroom,
going to sleep in my soft bed sheets,
but traveling abroad or being with where
I'm going to be sleeping with next to somebody
or other guys because I don't want anybody to know about it.
And I just figured, you know, you
should just say pray about it and not think about it
and I worship her because that's going to lead you to that.
What you need to do is just get on your knees and pray
and not look and watch God work.
And guess what?
Ever since then, I can't believe Hunter got into me about it.
My habit went from four times a week,
plummeted once every 72 hours.
And now last week, I just broke a record
about just that once a week, once a week.
And I'm going to try next week and go the entire week
without it.
And if I could go over a month, I
might be done with Covenant Eyes.
That's awesome.
Breaking down the stats on it and everything.
That's awesome.
Please don't tell Jackie because otherwise she's
going to tell all the other ladies and be like,
ew, that's creepy.
She doesn't pay attention to these calls too much now.
All right.
So it's just the first time in a couple,
in a first time in 13 years struggle.
I had to do it on my own.
And the culture just didn't take it.
Well, our culture either accepts it or doesn't know any better,
won't talk about it, just doesn't know any better.
So they go, what?
And they're like, whatever.
And they're just waiting on us.
I'm not mad at the culture for accepting it.
They're just waiting on us to do something about it.
They can come on, come on, God.
Give me the spouse so if I want sex, I could go to them.
But I got to remember that's not true.
And when I prayed for something,
it wasn't really pouring out my heart to God.
It was just me telling them what to do
and what I need to make Mary the youngest
so I can have the best because I want
to live life to the fullest.
But in reality, it's just my passion,
like in the book of James.
And I just felt bad about it.
I figured I got wasted my life.
Well, thank you for sharing that, Hunter.
That's powerful.
It's a breakthrough.
And we're going to celebrate and rejoice with you.
And some good stuff.
There were some nuggets in there.
I don't know if you guys caught some simple truth there.
I won't go into it, but just some good stuff there.
Anybody else?
Anything that you want to like, hey, you know what?
I'm going to put it out there.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to work on this, whatever
it is that's either it's holding you back or it's in your way
or it's just like, you know what?
I'm done with this level of thinking, whatever it is.
Anybody else?
I think I kind of get in my own way.
You know, like set myself up for failure
or tell myself I'm undeserving or haven't earned
the capability to receive love from someone else or affection.
Things like that nature.
Get in your own way.
Yeah, we all do that for sure in lots of different ways.
But I mean, in the sense of I almost like.
set up the possibility for relationships
to fall on purpose.
Almost like, oh, well, she must be crazy
if she likes me whatsoever.
And so like, I'll manufacture some type of an argument
or something to break up about.
It's not like recent, it's just going through
some of the hard work.
You know, it's stuff that I've recognized I've done
in the past and just kind of calling it out there now.
So I don't know.
I pray that I don't repeat that behavior.
Even the lady I'm dating now,
she doesn't want any more kids
and she's aware I'm moving away next year to go to school.
And so even though we're not like,
it's not gonna lead toward a marriage.
It just, I enjoy her company.
You know, sending music to each other,
being dorks together.
It kind of is revitalizing like,
I guess like path forward for me
for how I should operate in the future.
So not in fear, but out of joy.
Okay.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for that.
Getting it out there, guys.
Just getting it out there, declaring it, speaking it out.
So good.
Anybody else?
I got a testimony to start off.
Just realized it was about three weeks ago on this call
and you were doing the confession.
And it was in the middle of
some things that I confessed in my relationship.
And I was talking to some other people, support system.
And all of a sudden I just had like,
it was just a light bulb
of just seeing how I was holding back in my relationship.
And the following day I spent all day
with my girlfriend and her nephews
and it just changed everything, changed a lot.
I was like, I practically ran to her
and I told her I loved her that day for the first time.
And it was like a breaking free of a lot of
some of the things guys are talking about.
Like I am enough.
I do deserve this woman.
She deserves me.
We deserve to be happy
at least to give my all in the relationship.
So that's a praise report.
And the other side of it is
I just wanna be consistent with that.
I don't wanna falter.
I just wanna experience some breakthrough.
Like you were saying, I appreciate your words about fear
cause that's been something that's allowed to grip me
and it doesn't have any good fruit.
And I just wanna continue to be consistent in that.
That's good.
Cause I do remember that Paul,
you guys, you were a couple of weeks ago,
several weeks ago, you were in that,
you're like, I'm dating this girl,
but I just don't know.
And I just, I'm, you know, I have these reservations
and it's ironic that it requires you to like go in,
go deeper to get the breakthrough.
I mean, we're kind of, we've heard those like stories
all of our life, like, you know, go harder, deeper,
like I said, but men relationship,
that is something that's so true.
It's just like, it's not time to walk away.
It's time to go in deeper, you know,
and be better, try harder, like go into yourself
and not with your own strength, but with grace.
And that's the thing right there
that is gonna produce the most consistency.
It's having grace for yourself
and being led in peace and grace
because you can like, we were buying a car years ago
and all the circumstances surrounding buying this car
went very easy and full of grace
to the point where we noticed, we looked at each other
and we were like,
can you believe that we're getting this car?
Now, circumstantially, it was just like, you know,
it wasn't like it was the fabulous car.
I was actually trying to get out of another car deal
that I was upside down in, you know,
so I didn't have any value left in the car.
Matter of fact, I owed,
and I just wanted to get out of that
to get into this other car.
And the process was so easy
and we were able to accomplish
what I wanted to do financially.
And again, like I said, it wasn't like the super radical car, it was just a Honda Accord.
But the process was so full of grace and ease that we ended up calling, it was a white car,
we ended up calling the name of the car, we called it Grace.
Because God chose to use that situation to show us how we should go about making decisions
and planning things out.
So now in our business, that was years ago, now in our business, Jackie and I use that
principle of grace to make sure it's like, hey, we've got something, we could do this,
we have this idea, we want to create this thing or we want to create this trip or have
this moment or go here to this thing and get another business principle or do stuff in
business.
And we are consistently following peace and also grace.
We feel like there's not a there's not a grace to do this.
And so we had we had a situation just recently, where we're like, we're trying to make something
happen.
It's good.
It's nothing wrong with it.
It's nothing bad.
It's an expansion of the thing.
Got to do this.
We're going to this new endeavor.
And we're trying to go after it.
And it's like, man, it's not working.
It's like, so what do you do?
You dig in harder and you make it work and you try to figure it out, you do all the things
you could do that.
Or you could go with grace and you could say, you know what, there's something on this is
not a grace to do this.
And so we're not going to do it.
So we bowed out.
We said, no, we pulled the funds, we pulled the resources, we pulled the all the stuff,
the information that went into it, we're not going to do it.
Because we're not going to force the situation to happen, we're just going to be led in grace.
And that's one of the best ways to be consistent.
Because it's not it's not whether you'll fail because you you probably will mess up.
You won't do it perfectly.
You know what I'm saying?
But if you follow grace and go with grace and go, you know what, I'm going to continue
showing up.
I'm going to continue pressing in.
I'm going to continue leaning in.
I'm going to continue to rely on the presence of the Lord.
I like to pray or I like to speak in tongues or I like to like, do what I do in order to
like, make that connection with the Lord, have a have a talk with God.
You know, that's what I do in order to lean into that.
Instead of ignoring.
I don't know how many of you've ever done that before where you're like, oh, I want
something and I'm not, you know, I'm like, I'm not consistent with it and so forth.
So I feel bad about myself or whatever, instead of leaning into the resource of heaven.
That has all the answers.
We do that all the time, right?
We just like, why do we do that?
Why do we think we have all the answers?
Why do we think the answers are somewhere else?
Why don't we just go to the person who has all the answers?
But and lots of times it's because of like shame and guilt and all the things that are
not productive because they keep you from like, oh no, I can't do that.
Well, I've just been now just going just like, even in the midst of it, I'm marching off
the cliff and I'm sitting there praying.
I'm like, I'm marching off this cliff, God, do you see me?
I'm praying right now.
You know, I'm like, I need your help.
I need the information.
And then God shows up and does great things.
So that's kind of like some of my testimony now.
So I just want to encourage you with that.
Allah, thank you for sharing Paul.
I'm going to get a run off a cliff while you're praying right now.
Just a comment, David, it's fascinating to hear.
You just said two different things.
You said, go deeper instead of pulling away in relationships, run off the cliff, you know,
go for it.
And then you also said, when there's not grace on something or peace, sometimes you need
to pull back.
And the only way to sort that out is relationship with Jesus.
Yeah.
So true.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
And Chris, thank you for sharing that because there is a lot of irony.
It's not just one little principle.
And relationship is just like that.
That is just like that.
So good.
Thank you for sharing that.
Anybody else got anything to share tonight?
My last few moments.
I got an encouraging story.
Good news.
Real quick, you asked us to, you gave us some sort of assignment to take some sort of positive
step forward. I can't remember specifically, but real quick for me, I was in Sarasota. I found
for a long, kind of a long weekend vacation, found a local boxing gym and in the middle of
kind of reaching for, well, I was going for my phone and there was this other member that the
gym, standing right there, she was attractive. And I said, excuse me, I'm just gonna grab my
phone. Anyway, she turned around and we started a conversation. She said, Oh, I'm moving. I'm
actually moving to the Raleigh, North Carolina area like in two weeks. And so normally I would
just say, Oh, that's great. I'm from, I live in Raleigh, Raleigh, North Carolina. Oh, that's
great. I was like, well, why don't, why don't I welcome you when you get to town? Which was like
a big, like a big step for me. So, and it was really, I think in the back of my mind is rattling
around to your assignment of taking some sort of positive step forward and in some sort of female
capacity. So yeah. So let me share that was a big deal for me. And we did, we did say something
like, you know, do something like make eye contact. Just like the simplest thing. It's just
like, you know, practice like that, you know, that approach practice the, like what a smooth
little thing. Let me, let me welcome you to town when you get in town. That's pretty smooth. I like
that. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that Rob. That's good. Rob, did you spar with her? Did
you like punch her in the face? Not a bad idea, right? But I didn't.
That's funny. Maybe, maybe you should, I don't know. Not, not a good idea.
Guys, God bless. Thank you so much for showing up tonight. Thank you for sharing all of you.
So much value in what you shared tonight. I got a lot out of it.
I hope you got a lot out of being encouraged and lifted up that, that
two principles that, that prioritizing
agenda over relationship. That's a big one.
That's a big one in your relationships. That's when I get caught up on all the time.
If there's anything that, you know, like that probably gets the biggest
rub between me and my wife is me prioritizing, but I'm just trying to finish this. I'm just
trying to do like everything I'm doing is like good thing. It's like, it's not like I'm like,
I'm just trying to lay this one last gambling bet. I mean, it's not like I'm doing that.
It's not like bad things. It's just like everything I'm doing is, is part of the plan,
part of productivity, part of doing like, right. But I just find myself sometimes prioritizing
my agenda, what I have to get done or what I'm concentrating on or what I'm, you know,
like, I'm just trying to like do the thing over relationship. So that's like a, that's like a big,
that's like a big deal. And then the second one, of course, is just like
taking up the risk, like taking up the responsibility.
Now you have to take that with a grain of salt because some people like take on too much and
they're like, they're taking like, oh, this is mine. I've got to do this. I've got to do this.
I've got to do this. No, it's about leveling up into the weight of the responsibility of what it
is that you feel before God, honestly, not some religious way, but honestly, before God,
what is your responsibility? Like, where can you be the strength in your family for your wife,
for your kids, for your, even your own life? Where, where is, where is the level of responsibility?
Where, where is, where is the level of responsibility? Where does the weight
hold? And if you feel like you can't hold the weight, then it's a matter of like the exercise
until you can. It's like, God, I know I was supposed to step into this role and be this,
but I just don't feel like I can. I don't know how I don't understand. I'm missing. I keep on
missing it. And that's just, that's the, that's the continuing to show up part is continue to
show up, show up. Yeah. Well, at least I'm showing up. Well, you screwed up and you missed this.
Yeah. But at least I'm showing up a lot. Like that's a lot of what happens to our culture.
I think a lot of men, they just stop showing up. It's like, you know what? That's freaking ridiculous.
because I'll never do this, I'm not doing this.
I'm just gonna go sit on the couch, drink a beer,
and watch the game, you know?
And they give up, they abdicate their position of strength,
their position of authority.
So it's like stepping up into the righteousness of God,
the responsibility.
So I'll leave you with that tonight, guys.
God bless you, I love y'all.
I pray blessing and grace and ease over you.
I pray for victory, I pray for breakthrough.
I pray for healing for each one of you.
In Jesus' name we pray, amen and amen.