WEBVTT

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All right, welcome to this week's heart check-in, it is Renee Rizzo right here subbing for David

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while he is out of the country.

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It is his birthday, so make sure y'all like leave him happy birthday messages.

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And I'm here to talk to you either about the dating levels, the divine masculine feminine

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boundaries, your dating profile, whether it's for a spirit mate match or anything that you

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do online.

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If you're like Renee, tell me about what never to say to a girl or never to wear in a picture,

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that kind of stuff too.

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I'd be happy to uncover that with you.

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I am going to jump in and say this because before I forget it, y'all, I'm amazed at how

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many times men put topless shots in an app profile.

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And I know it's not the same as a girl showing up topless, however, I feel like the equivalent

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would be me showing up in a bikini and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want that.

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I don't know.

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Chris is joining us as well.

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Okay.

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So dating 101, the levels of dating.

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Do any of you have any questions that you would like to ask me about this?

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Has this been hard to navigate?

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Does it feel clunky and weird?

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Mike, you are up.

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Absolutely.

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How to get out the gate, right?

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You know what?

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I don't know.

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I have negative, I got back on apps today, ironically.

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But just how to get to connecting without, you know, I mean, I thought, you know, so

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any tips on that and what does it look, what is a healthy pursuit or like, what does it

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look like?

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I have anxious, so I'm trying to not be, I'm trying to be more secure, but I do like connecting,

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but I don't know what it really looks like to do healthy.

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I think that's a really great question.

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Hey, Paul, I'm so glad to have you here.

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You guys, man, we've got like the great crowd here.

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I'm so excited to see you all.

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I will say this.

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I'm going to tell you what I think based on everything that I've learned with Jackie,

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which is healthy tempo, what is healthy courting through the, especially in level one and level

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two, I cannot guarantee that every woman you come across is healthy.

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So I'm going to tell you what healthy pursuit looks like and reciprocation.

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If she at all is triggered by that or feeling like it's too much or not enough, that may

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have more reflection to do with her health and not you doing it wrong.

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So that's my umbrella statement.

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I know let's, let's talk about all the different scenarios.

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So the women in this community, obviously there's a lot less of y'all and there's more

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of us.

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And so I would say if you see a girl that you like, you're going to send her a message

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in Facebook, probably because if we're all here, we all have a Facebook handle.

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As you guys know, if you guys aren't Facebook friends, it goes into this bucket called message

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that you don't like, I don't even see it all the time and I swear I'm looking for it.

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And so the same thing that we say to the women dropping the hanky is you drop a message once

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you don't drop a message three times.

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You don't try to message them on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn.

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Like you just kind of put it out there.

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Obviously if you guys all fill out your spirit mate match profile, it will definitely help

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Jackie match up women for you.

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Again, there's less of you and there's a lot more women.

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And so chances are once you fill out that profile, you could be matched with like 20

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or 30 different women and she's going to help make that kind of connection happen.

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And it's really something as simple as, Hey, you know what?

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You caught my eye.

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I know we don't know a lot about each other.

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Are you open to a 20 minute chat?

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I jump right to a video chat because I don't like want to like go back and forth on this

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whole texting thing.

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I know some women are like all freaked out about that, but just say like, Hey, I know

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texting can be clunky or are you open for a quick 15, 20 minute chat?

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Now if she says no, I'd rather just start texting here.

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Then you can have your boundaries.

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My personal boundaries, whether it's men in this community or online, I will not text

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longer than a week.

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That is as long as I'm willing to give them.

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And I usually end it with, those are really great.

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And if they're questions, if they're asking questions pretty fast, I'll get there faster

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than a week.

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And I'll say, those are really great questions, but I much prefer those on camera so we can

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see each other, hear tone and inflection and body language.

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I feel like texting is not a great way to get to know somebody that I've never met in

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person.

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are you open for that? And I could tell you, you guys, I've lost dozens of matches from men not

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being willing to do that. And I don't care. And I don't think you should care either. Like I'm just

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a big fan. I don't even like giving out Google voice numbers because again, I've, and I'm sure

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you have too. Haven't you gone on camera and you're like, oh my gosh, you look nothing like

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your photos. And so a phone call is not going to show you that. I also think you learn a lot by

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somebody's body language. Like, you know, even a little bit about my personality, just by seeing

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the artwork that's behind me. I put a little bit of makeup on for you guys tonight. So like

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you learn a little bit about somebody when they show up on camera that you don't get in a phone

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call. So I think that's the simplest way to do it. And so Jackie always says it's about reciprocation.

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So you want to match each other's tempo. If she messages you back, great. Then you kind of keep

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the conversation going. If you feel like she's just kind of not really doing anything or she's

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starting to fall off, then it's okay to just move on. Jackie would say, and I would say this is true

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in level one slash level two. So level one is you're just kind of tossing it out there. You're

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talking to people online or in a text message. That's just level one. That's me and Mike running

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into each other at the grocery store. It's not until we have a one-on-one phone call or video

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chat that it's actually even considered a level two discovery session. Like you've got to have

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some alone time. A text conversation is not it. So it's either got to be in person or on camera

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for it to feel like it's a level two more kind of discovery dating conversation.

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We have trained the girls in our program that they're supposed to let you know if they want to

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see you again. Hey, I had a really great time, Josh. I'd love to get to know you better. That's the

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language. I'd love to continue to get to know you. That's it. That's all we're promising each other.

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And so Jackie always says it's a yes until it's a no. So the same applies for you guys too. It's

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like it's a yes until it's a no and it's a yes until no. Here's what it doesn't mean. It doesn't

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mean if you are both miserable and you're like there's no way in heck I'm ever going to want

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to talk to this person or it's like watching paint dry, then no, we don't want you to go out

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on another date with them. We don't want you to book another phone call. Like it's a yes until

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it's a no is I see enough things about you I like. I'm not sure about a few other things,

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but there's enough things going for this that I'd like to get to know you better.

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That's it. It's a yes until it's a no. I think some women and some men have been like, oh my gosh,

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but Jackie said it's like, no, if you're miserable, nobody wants you to keep talking

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to somebody because then that's what's going to be that comes out. And so I think in the thing

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that we need to not do, and she's talking to the women about this too. We need to not use God as

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our backup when we really just aren't interested again. So like the whole, like, well, I really,

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I prayed about it and I really feel like the Lord told me no, no, really? Did he really,

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did he, or do you just want it to be no, like, it's okay if the no is just you, like, you know?

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And so, cause I mean, cause I just think God wants us to enjoy getting to know people. And I just,

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I think that sometimes that God will put out a warning. Now I will say this,

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if the Holy spirit presses on your heart, danger run, then I'd heed that I have ignored that heed

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run danger. And it has bitten me in the butt every time. So if the Holy spirit is telling you

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for whatever reason to walk away, then you can do that. But you don't need to tell that person

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that you don't need to be like, all right, Emily, the Lord told me, no, no, just say, you know what,

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Emily, it was so great getting to know you. I just don't see us going any further, but it was really

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lovely. Get to know you. I wish you the best. So that's what I would say, Mike, drop the hanky with

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a message, with a comment and see if it gets picked up. People are weird on line in this

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community and online. Sometimes they'll just delete a conversation with you. Sometimes they'll

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tell you they're not interested. Sometimes they'll wait a week. There are a hundred reasons why

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people message you back and don't message you back. What I will say early on in that dating

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discovery season, it's not our job to school them if they're behaving inappropriately.

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Like you guys, I just got a message from this guy. Now I probably should have known

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by the fact that he said he missed cuddling in his bio. Usually when a guy mentions,

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they miss the cuddling, but I was bored. So like, let me see where this goes. He was local. He was

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cute. I was like, I'll see where it goes. And then he was like all up in my grill, asking me

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questions about how long I've been dating online, how it's successful. It's.

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But I'm like, seriously.

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I said, you told me you read my whole bio

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and that's all you care about

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is how much I've talked to other people?

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And then I said, tell me something else about you.

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And then he said something about passionate something.

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And I'm like, blocked.

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Like old me used to feel like it was my job

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as a sister in Christ to let him know the error of his ways.

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And so that he would not do this to other godly women.

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But y'all, they know.

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So when you're talking to women,

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that if she's dressed too provocative,

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and that's my thing,

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like Jackie really kind of went hard on the women.

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I think, I don't know if you listened

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to Love Seats from last week.

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Like when women keep saying,

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I keep finding men that just wanna have sex with me.

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Now I find that every now and then,

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but that is not 95% of what I get from men.

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So, but I would say if what you're getting from women

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is the same exact issue over and over again,

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you really need to look at how you're presenting yourself.

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Is it your photos?

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Is it your bio?

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If you keep attracting the same kind of woman,

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then you're putting out something that's reeling that in.

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When the heart is an issue, people behave strange.

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For sure, Chris, man, I tell you what.

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I've just learned to have a lot of grace.

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I have changed my dating tactic 100%

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since joining this program.

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I used to wanna know the reason

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why anyone dropped off the earth.

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Like if they seemed completely all into me,

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then nothing.

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I would be offended.

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I would wanna have closure.

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I would wanna, now I can't even keep up.

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Like when I'm like, oh, I guess he's gone.

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I guess he's gone.

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I wonder what I said, but you know what?

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If he's my guy, he's not gonna get offended.

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He might think I'm funny or whatever.

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Did that even remotely answer your question, Mike?

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I hope it did.

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I rambled on too long.

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You're muted.

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No, it was super good.

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Cause I'm like, I am clue.

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I mean, I was married for 20 years,

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but I mean, it's like my first girlfriend, right?

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So it's like getting into this whole freaking realm.

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And then can I ask a whole nother like practical question?

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So I was pursuing somebody, then we became friends,

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but then I asked for feedback, right?

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And then we discussed, huh?

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You asked for feedback from her?

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Yeah, yeah, cause I adore her.

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She's amazing, right?

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And so we were talking and then her,

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so there's a no, don't try harder, right?

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I get that, I understand that.

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But when we talked about it,

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like what her presupposition was where her deal breaker

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wasn't actually a deal breaker.

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So then we were chatting and it was like,

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so I don't know, I'm just kind of in this weird paradigm.

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I'm like, so, but what is-

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Here's what I can tell you,

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women are not that different than men.

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You know, you guys are, most of you are too young,

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but back in the Sex and the City day,

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when Berger was talking to Carrie and all the friends,

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he always said, he's just not that into you.

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That was his phrase, he's just not that into you.

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If someone's into you, you're not gonna be confused

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and they're gonna want, they're gonna be moving towards you.

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So I think this applies for both men and women.

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They might like you, just not enough.

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And so I think Jackie has used the phrase

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that men will cut off their arm and use it as an oar

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to swim upstream, to paddle upstream,

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to get to the woman he likes.

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So I think this is true for women.

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If they like you, they like you, you know it.

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They will affirm you, they will make contact with you,

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they will find reasons to talk to you again

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if they're in front of you,

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they will find reasons to touch you.

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Like if you find that women,

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and I don't mean sexually touch,

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but like grab your hand or grab your arm,

227
00:13:54.420 --> 00:13:57.700
women are as obvious as men are

228
00:13:57.700 --> 00:14:00.220
and they really will pursue you.

229
00:14:00.220 --> 00:14:05.060
So if she's giving you reasons why it can't go further,

230
00:14:05.060 --> 00:14:08.020
but they don't seem like real deal breakers,

231
00:14:08.020 --> 00:14:09.960
but she's kind of hemming and hawing,

232
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.260
chances are she's not completely disclosing to you

233
00:14:13.260 --> 00:14:16.740
why she's hesitant, possibly because she doesn't know,

234
00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:19.780
possibly because she doesn't want her to hurt your feelings

235
00:14:19.780 --> 00:14:22.620
or maybe she's got her own crap that she hasn't figured out

236
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:24.460
and she's blocking it herself,

237
00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:27.140
but it's not your job to convince her to like you

238
00:14:27.140 --> 00:14:29.300
or convince her that y'all should be together.

239
00:14:29.300 --> 00:14:30.420
You know what I'm saying, you guys?

240
00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:31.860
Like, does that make sense?

241
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:32.780
Yeah, so I wish,

242
00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:34.900
because so this is like a real life situation

243
00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.940
at the moment, right?

244
00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:38.300
And we've been chatting like every once,

245
00:14:38.300 --> 00:14:40.580
almost every day for a while.

246
00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:42.480
Is she reaching out to you

247
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.200
or are you doing all the reaching out?

248
00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:46.360
Both, it's been back and forth.

249
00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.160
Okay, how long has it been going on?

250
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:54.160
Well, it's off and on for about three months.

251
00:14:54.160 --> 00:14:55.000
Okay.

252
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:56.160
And then I talked to Jackie about it,

253
00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:59.440
but it's just, so I'm actually going,

254
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:00.280
so,

255
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.360
You know, I didn't expect to talk about all this today,

256
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.360
but so I'm looking at like, we have a dating cadence,

257
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:12.480
but we're friends and I want to...

258
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.360
All right, when you say you have a dating cadence,

259
00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:16.040
are you guys seeing each other in real life?

260
00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:17.680
Or are you only texting and calling?

261
00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:18.820
She lives in a different country,

262
00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:21.000
so that's in real life would be...

263
00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:23.320
Do you guys have actual dates?

264
00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:24.560
Were you like...

265
00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:25.920
We have not done that yet.

266
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.200
No, we just chat on chat or we've chatted on the phone,

267
00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.280
but I'm trying to draw boundaries.

268
00:15:32.280 --> 00:15:34.480
You know, like this is a whole new thing for me, right?

269
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.080
It's like, okay, if we're not dating and we're friends,

270
00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.360
then we need to cut this back to like once a week or so.

271
00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:41.960
100%.

272
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.040
Right, and so is that fair?

273
00:15:44.040 --> 00:15:45.920
See, I've never done this.

274
00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:50.560
100%, none of you guys should be giving somebody

275
00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:52.360
attention every single day

276
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:55.520
unless you are pursuing a dating relationship.

277
00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.560
You are both just sucking energy

278
00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:00.920
that could be going to somebody else.

279
00:16:00.920 --> 00:16:02.000
That is not fair to you.

280
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.800
If she's talking to you every single day,

281
00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:05.360
but she's not saying that you're dating

282
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:06.900
and doesn't want to date you.

283
00:16:09.640 --> 00:16:11.960
It is a very complicated situation, but yeah.

284
00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.920
But anyways, so no, like I just...

285
00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:16.920
No, but so that sounds fine though, right?

286
00:16:16.920 --> 00:16:18.280
Because that's something I've been looking at

287
00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:19.600
the last couple of days

288
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.040
about just having that conversation.

289
00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:23.780
And when it's like, hey, you know,

290
00:16:23.780 --> 00:16:25.240
I really think you're great

291
00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:26.800
and I think we're a good match,

292
00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:28.840
but we're on a dating cadence.

293
00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:30.880
It's like we're dating

294
00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:32.980
and I need to get it back to friendship level.

295
00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:36.520
If you ever want to actually date and go that direction,

296
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:38.440
I would love to.

297
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:39.260
Does that sound fair?

298
00:16:39.260 --> 00:16:40.100
Does that sound all right?

299
00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:41.880
Absolutely, 100%.

300
00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:43.240
Cool, thank you.

301
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:44.080
You bet.

302
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.480
All right, the rest of you.

303
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:46.720
Paul, welcome back.

304
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.280
I think you left and I'm glad you're back.

305
00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:50.520
Chris, good to see you.

306
00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:51.800
All right, how can I help you guys?

307
00:16:51.800 --> 00:16:53.720
So I'm here to discuss any topic

308
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:55.400
you guys want to talk about.

309
00:16:55.400 --> 00:16:58.280
The dating levels, divine, feminine, masculine.

310
00:16:58.280 --> 00:17:00.680
How does it, what does it mean to be masculine?

311
00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:03.640
We can talk about boundaries.

312
00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:05.280
We can talk about,

313
00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:07.760
have the rest of you guys filled out your profile

314
00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:08.960
for spirit mate match?

315
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.760
I have Chris, Carlos, Paul.

316
00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:14.920
Have you guys filled your profiles out yet?

317
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.599
No, I'm actually dating somebody.

318
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.680
So I'm not gonna do that right now.

319
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.240
Okie dokie.

320
00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:24.920
Are you in a good place?

321
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.680
I have a question about it.

322
00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:31.920
All right, then there you go.

323
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.080
All right.

324
00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:35.160
We might be in a better place than I feel right now.

325
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.640
I don't know, but love languages.

326
00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.400
So it's actually been real recent

327
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.560
that I realized that,

328
00:17:45.560 --> 00:17:47.680
and I told her different, I did.

329
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.920
And so this, I'm giving her a lot of grace

330
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.760
because I did not think,

331
00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:54.880
words of affirmation used to be really high for me,

332
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.480
but I felt like I went through a lot of inner healing

333
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.960
and things and felt like God downloaded so much into me

334
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.800
that it didn't feel like it was as important.

335
00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:05.640
But now in this relationship,

336
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:07.320
it feels like it's coming back up.

337
00:18:07.320 --> 00:18:10.080
Like I want her to affirm me

338
00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:12.120
and that's her biggest weakness.

339
00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:14.120
She says, that's my hardest one.

340
00:18:15.040 --> 00:18:15.880
Not a member of the-

341
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.880
What's her love language?

342
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.480
Personal time and physical touch are her.

343
00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:26.160
And a few months ago, she spoke up.

344
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.440
She said, hey, I'd like to see you more than once a week.

345
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.800
That's important for me to feel like we're local.

346
00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:36.480
She's 30 minutes away and stuff.

347
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:37.840
So we're able to do that.

348
00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:40.160
And it was just like pulling me out of my,

349
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.040
during the work week, it wasn't easy.

350
00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:45.960
It wasn't my cadence to normally go during the work week,

351
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.880
but I made that adjustment

352
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.640
and I've been happy that I made that adjustment.

353
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:53.520
And I kind of referenced that not in a shameful way,

354
00:18:53.520 --> 00:18:54.360
but like-

355
00:18:54.360 --> 00:18:56.120
But like, hey, I'm willing to do this for you.

356
00:18:56.120 --> 00:18:57.680
You might need to be doing this.

357
00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:59.120
I have done it for her.

358
00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:03.400
And I, so I'm just, yeah, I'm just wondering like-

359
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.720
Is she somebody in our community or she's-

360
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:06.880
No, she's not.

361
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.280
I've mentioned the community.

362
00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:09.880
I've mentioned the heart work.

363
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:11.120
That's another thing.

364
00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:12.800
I'm like, you know, I don't want to-

365
00:19:12.800 --> 00:19:14.760
How healthy does she seem to be?

366
00:19:14.760 --> 00:19:18.520
You know, she really kind of does push her emotions down.

367
00:19:18.520 --> 00:19:23.080
I'm actually, ironically, the more emotionally expressive

368
00:19:23.080 --> 00:19:24.720
and I think emotionally healthier

369
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.480
because I've had to do a lot of fricking work over years,

370
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.040
you know, but because of that, I have a long way to go.

371
00:19:32.040 --> 00:19:35.120
And then sometimes I do not know what the heck I'm feeling,

372
00:19:35.120 --> 00:19:39.200
but that's the thing is I can feel that.

373
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.640
It's like, I don't want to, but I also-

374
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.320
Are you guys exclusive?

375
00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:45.400
Oh yeah.

376
00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:46.440
Yeah, we've been exclusive.

377
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.960
We've been dating for seven months.

378
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:49.480
Oh wow.

379
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:50.320
Yeah.

380
00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:52.000
Okay, so you've been dating for seven months

381
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.640
and you see each other like twice a week-ish?

382
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:55.480
At least.

383
00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.720
We've traveled together several times over the summer.

384
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.600
in her parents many times.

385
00:20:03.560 --> 00:20:07.100
How much does she know that this is important to you?

386
00:20:08.360 --> 00:20:13.360
Well, I made it clear again in the context of,

387
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.080
I don't know if you ever heard of FANOS,

388
00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:18.760
but it's a way of checking in your feelings,

389
00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:23.120
your affirmations, your needs, what you can own.

390
00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:25.460
And so on the affirmation, we started that,

391
00:20:25.460 --> 00:20:27.840
I sent her something, I'd like to start doing this,

392
00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:30.000
sent that to her, and then on, what's today?

393
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.000
Monday, so on Saturday, I went over and that was,

394
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.960
I told her earlier in the week, or last week,

395
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.380
and then I said, that's my need.

396
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:40.740
I really need more affirmation.

397
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:42.720
And so it was only the second time

398
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:44.400
that it's come up though, that's the thing.

399
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.240
It's a new-

400
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.840
Well, when she says that it's hard for her,

401
00:20:47.840 --> 00:20:51.080
does she also say, but I'm gonna work on that with you?

402
00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:53.160
So the first time when I brought it up,

403
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.880
she said, she did say something to that effect.

404
00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.880
And so I, yeah, she doesn't say that often.

405
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:03.800
I don't know.

406
00:21:03.800 --> 00:21:07.160
And I think that's a fair thing for you to say like,

407
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.920
hey, I've brought this up a couple of times.

408
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:12.920
I know it doesn't come natural for you,

409
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:14.520
but I need to know that that's something

410
00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:16.600
you're actually willing to work on for me.

411
00:21:16.600 --> 00:21:17.440
Right.

412
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.960
Because the whole point,

413
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:21.960
it's not even about love languages,

414
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.760
it's about asking for what you need

415
00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:26.520
and your partner meeting you halfway

416
00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:28.440
with those needs to be met.

417
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.520
And so if you had the courage to ask for what you need,

418
00:21:32.520 --> 00:21:36.440
like she asked for what she needed and you gave it to her.

419
00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:37.880
And just say like, look,

420
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:40.880
I need to know that if I ask for what I need,

421
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.680
you're gonna at least try.

422
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.920
And you're not gonna just tell me that it's your weakness.

423
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.640
You're just gonna say, hey, it doesn't come natural for me,

424
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:50.320
but I am gonna make an effort

425
00:21:50.320 --> 00:21:52.160
because I know this is important to you.

426
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.680
Because this time, that's what's important to you.

427
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.600
There's gonna be something else in the future

428
00:21:58.600 --> 00:21:59.520
that's gonna be important.

429
00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:00.640
Do you feel like,

430
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.200
since you guys have been together for seven months,

431
00:22:04.360 --> 00:22:07.840
do you feel like you are in the same place of like,

432
00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:10.760
do both like each other at the same level?

433
00:22:10.760 --> 00:22:13.920
Do you like her more than she likes you or vice versa?

434
00:22:14.840 --> 00:22:18.720
I think she likes me a little bit more than where I'm at.

435
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.800
Interesting.

436
00:22:19.800 --> 00:22:24.600
She's like, I may or may not,

437
00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:27.520
about a few weeks ago, I've asked her a question

438
00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:29.120
and probably was a mistake.

439
00:22:29.120 --> 00:22:33.360
Hey, are you okay with lab grown diamonds

440
00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:36.280
as opposed to like the De Beers crap,

441
00:22:36.280 --> 00:22:38.760
which I'm kind of ethically opposed to.

442
00:22:38.760 --> 00:22:43.160
And then after I didn't take her diamond shopping

443
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.000
and then she saw that as like a pulling back.

444
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.360
So I think she would have said yes,

445
00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:52.200
even a few weeks ago, if I was to propose.

446
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.560
And now I'm just not in that place.

447
00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:58.280
And so I just, I really want to discover more.

448
00:22:58.280 --> 00:23:00.600
And like I said, maybe that was a mistake.

449
00:23:00.600 --> 00:23:02.920
It felt natural.

450
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:04.400
We were spending a lot of time over the summer.

451
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.280
I'm a teacher, so I had a couple of months off

452
00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:08.760
and we were like, let's go here, let's go there.

453
00:23:08.760 --> 00:23:10.240
Let's, you know.

454
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.600
Do y'all share the same faith?

455
00:23:12.600 --> 00:23:15.200
Yeah, we're both followers of Christ, for sure.

456
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.560
Do you feel like you guys are both really compatible

457
00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:20.560
in your value system and things that you enjoy doing?

458
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.000
Yes.

459
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.000
Okay.

460
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:30.000
So is your only hesitation her words of affirmation?

461
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.120
Yeah, I think that's it.

462
00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:33.960
I think we-

463
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:35.080
I'm wondering though, Paul,

464
00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:37.680
because if that was something that's not an issue for you,

465
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.640
here's what I'm finding interesting.

466
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.720
You're saying that she might be more ready to say yes

467
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.840
than you are.

468
00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:47.960
You spent so much time together

469
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.840
and now all of a sudden you're looking for more words.

470
00:23:50.840 --> 00:23:54.240
So I'm kind of wondering, what is she not giving you

471
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.920
that is making you need that verbal affirmation?

472
00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:58.760
Right.

473
00:23:58.760 --> 00:23:59.600
Yeah.

474
00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:03.040
And I have a, I've had a lot of fear

475
00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:04.440
at different times in the relationship.

476
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.000
I show up more avoidant, you know what I mean?

477
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.840
And I've been checking in with friends

478
00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:11.800
and people who know how to have a good marriage.

479
00:24:11.840 --> 00:24:15.120
Often, like I have, you know, like a board of advisors

480
00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:17.360
because I could easily break off

481
00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:19.560
and feel like trying to feel safe.

482
00:24:19.560 --> 00:24:21.560
And so I'm, that's why I'm really getting,

483
00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:22.920
trying to get some guidance in this

484
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.440
because I don't trust my, you know, my-

485
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.720
Because something else is triggering you to need that more.

486
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:31.560
Yeah.

487
00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:34.000
Because it's something that you didn't think you need.

488
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.440
She probably likes you more than you like her.

489
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.760
So it's kind of like, or do you really need it?

490
00:24:42.600 --> 00:24:45.000
And you're trying to find a reason to push her away.

491
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:45.840
Right.

492
00:24:45.840 --> 00:24:46.680
Yeah.

493
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.600
I don't, yeah, it's a good question because-

494
00:24:48.600 --> 00:24:49.560
So let me ask you this.

495
00:24:49.560 --> 00:24:50.920
You guys talk every single day?

496
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:52.600
Maybe both.

497
00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:54.040
No, and that's a thing.

498
00:24:54.040 --> 00:24:56.440
I mean, we touch base, you know,

499
00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.000
sometimes on one way or another.

500
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.920
whether it's texting during the day,

501
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.800
a little bit here and there.

502
00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:04.920
It, to me, it feels like,

503
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:09.200
I think we had a couple moments of not feeling as close.

504
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:12.040
And I think that's when it was like, whoa,

505
00:25:12.040 --> 00:25:13.120
I almost like,

506
00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:16.160
cause I think I show up with some anxiousness too.

507
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.720
Like I want to feel close to this person all the time.

508
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.680
And I think it's kind of freaked me out that like,

509
00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:25.000
anyway, I'm just kind of trying to find my grip,

510
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.840
my grip and sort of speak again, you know.

511
00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:30.800
If you don't mind me asking, and you don't have to answer,

512
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:36.320
how are you guys managing your physical intimacy?

513
00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:37.920
Especially since you've gone away.

514
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:39.160
Cause sometimes you bring that in.

515
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:40.480
That's a good question.

516
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.320
We probably, there was a time in June

517
00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:47.520
when we crossed the boundary with that

518
00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:50.520
because we were traveling together.

519
00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:54.560
And then that's actually interesting you ask that

520
00:25:54.560 --> 00:25:57.720
because then we kind of stayed in that mode

521
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:01.440
and then around the time that we,

522
00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:05.400
I started feeling the distance was when I pulled us back.

523
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:07.840
I said, nope, no more of that.

524
00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:08.880
And she felt that,

525
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.640
I think she may have taken that a little bit

526
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.520
as a rejection.

527
00:26:12.520 --> 00:26:13.360
I don't know.

528
00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:14.280
She's like, that's a bummer.

529
00:26:14.280 --> 00:26:17.160
Like we can never do that at all until we're married.

530
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.600
And it was not full on sex, but whatever you can get done.

531
00:26:20.600 --> 00:26:23.400
But like, anyway, yeah.

532
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:24.320
Why do you ask that?

533
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.240
Is there something?

534
00:26:25.280 --> 00:26:30.280
Well, because there's usually a correlation.

535
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.200
When you do that and you kind of have to pull back there,

536
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:39.120
it can create,

537
00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:43.600
because physical intimacy creates a level of intimacy

538
00:26:43.600 --> 00:26:46.280
and you pull that back,

539
00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:48.160
you're gonna want to replace it

540
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.720
with another form of intimacy.

541
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.400
And so what it sounds like is you pulled back

542
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.240
on the physical intimacy.

543
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.040
And so you're leaning in harder

544
00:26:57.040 --> 00:26:59.960
and needing more verbal intimacy from her.

545
00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:01.760
But the problem is for her,

546
00:27:01.760 --> 00:27:06.760
because not doing that before marriage isn't a goal of hers,

547
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:11.080
she's lost the physical intimacy.

548
00:27:11.080 --> 00:27:12.400
So now she's pulled back

549
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.320
on maybe some of the verbal intimacy.

550
00:27:14.320 --> 00:27:16.800
It's like, and you need it more.

551
00:27:16.800 --> 00:27:18.640
And so it's like, you kind of,

552
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.520
so I'm just wondering how health,

553
00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:24.840
do you feel like you guys have a healthy enough relationship

554
00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:28.040
to have this very open conversation about this?

555
00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:29.560
Like, hey, you know what?

556
00:27:29.560 --> 00:27:32.440
I kind of noticed ever since we did this

557
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.280
that maybe you pulled back a little bit.

558
00:27:34.280 --> 00:27:37.120
Maybe I'm needing a little bit more verbal affirmation.

559
00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:40.920
Like, do we want to do the same thing

560
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.080
for the next six months?

561
00:27:42.080 --> 00:27:44.240
Like, do we have the same goals and values

562
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.840
as far as intimacy and marriage and God?

563
00:27:46.840 --> 00:27:48.240
And I find it interesting.

564
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.240
See, I love that it's in reverse,

565
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.960
that she's like, hey, we can't do that

566
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.120
because the guy that I was dating told me he was,

567
00:27:55.120 --> 00:27:57.040
we broke up in May,

568
00:27:57.040 --> 00:28:01.600
but we were a little too physical at the front end,

569
00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:03.200
definitely not sex.

570
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.760
But I could just tell, he's like,

571
00:28:04.760 --> 00:28:06.760
and I was like, well, I said, this is too much for me.

572
00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:08.160
Kind of like you, like, this is too much.

573
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:09.400
Like, we can't do this.

574
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:11.560
Like, I'm like, I don't want to build Clinton

575
00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:12.440
my way through this.

576
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:13.840
Like, when I said no sex,

577
00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:17.440
it didn't mean everything except this, that one thing.

578
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.360
Like, it meant all of this.

579
00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:23.680
And so me pulling back really created this weird space

580
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.760
where he was constantly asking me

581
00:28:26.760 --> 00:28:28.760
how I felt about him and what I was thinking.

582
00:28:28.760 --> 00:28:29.920
And I'm like, oh my God,

583
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.920
I'm spending all my spare time with you

584
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:35.120
and I'm giving you as much words of affirmation,

585
00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:37.440
but I couldn't give him enough.

586
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.240
Like, it was just never enough.

587
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.560
And after we broke up and I kind of realized

588
00:28:43.560 --> 00:28:45.880
how clearly the dude wanted sex

589
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:47.360
and he was just not honest about it.

590
00:28:47.360 --> 00:28:49.960
If he just said to me, Renee, I just miss sex

591
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.040
and I want sex and we're not having it.

592
00:28:52.040 --> 00:28:54.160
Like, then it would have made way more sense to me,

593
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.960
but he just wouldn't tell me that.

594
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:59.120
And so I'm just wondering

595
00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.280
if that's just playing a role in it

596
00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:06.160
and how healthy your relationship is

597
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.840
will be determined if you can have this conversation.

598
00:29:10.840 --> 00:29:12.280
And just be like, hey, you know,

599
00:29:12.280 --> 00:29:15.200
would you be willing to kind of talk this out with me?

600
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.560
And like, I don't know that I have the answers.

601
00:29:17.560 --> 00:29:19.440
I don't even know what I'm completely thinking,

602
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.400
but like, I've been kind of mulling on it.

603
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.400
And obviously if, you know, we have a long-term future,

604
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:28.960
we're gonna have these seasons

605
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.160
where we're both confused by each other

606
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:32.760
and I'm pulling back in one way

607
00:29:32.760 --> 00:29:34.240
and you're pulling back in the other way.

608
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.400
And the health of our relationship

609
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:38.840
would be us being able to talk about it.

610
00:29:38.840 --> 00:29:40.280
So can we just talk about it?

611
00:29:40.280 --> 00:29:42.440
Like, even though we don't really know,

612
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.200
like, and I don't need to have a firm answer

613
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:45.240
or a decision at the end of it.

614
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.920
I just want to unpack this with you.

615
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:48.760
Like.

616
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.120
Yeah, we talk pretty, we talk about all kinds of things.

617
00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:55.120
We've talked about, you know,

618
00:29:55.120 --> 00:29:58.320
a lot of detailed and intimate stuff,

619
00:29:58.320 --> 00:30:00.160
or, you know, we, a lot of-

620
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.880
times it was generated by a book that we were going through, which some people could consider

621
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:10.960
like a premarital kind of book to talk about topics. But, uh, but there's also times where

622
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.840
it feels like, like we're talking and we're both being really honest and we're not really,

623
00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:20.240
I don't know what's there's something missing. Like, I just feel like she's not understanding

624
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:26.800
me and maybe I'm not getting her. She's not giving me enough to know. I want more of what's

625
00:30:26.800 --> 00:30:31.040
inside of her and that's hard for her. So, and I'm trying to have grace on that. Cause I've

626
00:30:31.040 --> 00:30:36.400
been working on, you know, go around for a while. I felt like I pulled her into the deep end, like

627
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:41.040
give me your emotions, woman. You know what I mean? And I was like, okay, calm down. That's,

628
00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:44.800
that's too much. That would be hard for me though, Paul. I'm definitely, uh, I swim in the deep end

629
00:30:44.800 --> 00:30:48.480
of the swimming pool. So I would have, I love meaningful conversation. That's part of my

630
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:55.280
Enneagram as part of who I am. Just chilling and just like, we're just walking and I'm not really,

631
00:30:55.280 --> 00:31:00.000
you know, I have to remind myself that, you know, everything's okay. I don't need to have a

632
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:07.360
really good number. Are you on the Enneagram? I'm a five wing six. Oh, okay. That's fascinating.

633
00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:14.560
Well, fives gather a lot of data. Fives are the investigator. They like to gather a lot of data.

634
00:31:14.560 --> 00:31:19.280
What does she, do you know what she is? You know, she sent me her results and it was so

635
00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:25.440
varied. Um, I think she's more of like a, uh, a one, but then she has a little bit of two. I was

636
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.960
really hoping she was more too. Cause that's, that's, those are the ones. I'm a full on two.

637
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.200
I promise you she cannot verbalize what she's feeling. She is not a, she not even remotely

638
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.200
a two. She's all in her head. That's why I was hoping she was more two cause that's, they work.

639
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:45.200
She's not in the heart triad. The heart triad is two, three, four. Um, she's in the eight.

640
00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:51.360
Yeah. She's like, she's more, she's more eight and one. I think it was more than that. And that's,

641
00:31:51.360 --> 00:31:55.760
that's good for me, but I also need, need that. And we need to be able to check in with the,

642
00:31:55.760 --> 00:32:01.040
cause I'm head. I'm an ENFP Mike. So I knew we'd be good friends, but you're a seven,

643
00:32:01.040 --> 00:32:07.360
seven's like that fun. Oh, Josh, look at that. You're a nine INTJ. That's totally a Jackie.

644
00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:13.920
That's so funny. Jackie. I mean, I, David, David is a full on eye and he's so a nine.

645
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:20.080
I think that's INTP if I remember. Yeah. It's well,

646
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:26.160
I'm glad you, I mean, I'm glad I thank you for sharing all that. I feel like this is

647
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:30.400
good for other people to hear this too. When they're in replay, I think these, I mean,

648
00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:37.360
have you, how does your friends and family, what do they think of you guys?

649
00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:44.240
Um, my family likes her a lot. Parents, my sister, um,

650
00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:54.320
they're her family. Um, they, they like me a lot. Um, you know, that's sometimes I have to guess.

651
00:32:54.320 --> 00:32:59.360
I mean, you know, it's like, uh, from her, but she does, she did say that they liked me a lot and,

652
00:32:59.360 --> 00:33:04.880
and, and no one's, no one's throwing up flags telling you guys to not be in the, in this,

653
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:11.840
none of that. That's good. So can you, um, let me ask you this. Do you look forward to seeing her?

654
00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:17.440
I do. I do. I do look forward to seeing her, especially after we started seeing each other

655
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:21.600
more often than I'd be like, well, I want, I want, you know, I didn't like the days that we

656
00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:27.440
weren't together. I think, you know, there's times I get in my head, you know, where I'm like,

657
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:31.760
you know, I, are we going to have the connection next time we see each other?

658
00:33:31.760 --> 00:33:36.160
But I think if I honest with where my heart is at, yeah, I look forward to seeing her. So.

659
00:33:37.760 --> 00:33:39.840
Yeah, that was a good question. What are you afraid of?

660
00:33:43.040 --> 00:33:46.320
You know, uh, yeah. Are you divorced or are you never married?

661
00:33:47.360 --> 00:33:54.320
Never married. Neither one of us. Well, as a, as a fellow never married, I get it. The older we get,

662
00:33:54.320 --> 00:34:00.640
it's like, we just get afraid of every damn thing. Yeah. Cause we know life, we know that

663
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.960
life can suck. We know things can, you know, that it's not always, you know, it's that's why

664
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.400
they, the research says get married when you're twenties, you know what I mean? Cause then,

665
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:11.040
you know, then you're too stupid to know. You're just too dumb.

666
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:22.560
I honestly, I'm, I think I'm afraid of like being a hundred percent committed in a marriage and

667
00:34:22.560 --> 00:34:28.960
being lonely and being really like, we don't have that glue and being like in a bad marriage,

668
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:35.199
in a bad relationship, not feeling connected, uh, where I don't like being single, but

669
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.199
you know, like not having, you know what I mean? But there are benefits of being single,

670
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:44.960
you know, too. So I think it's. Have you thought about taking the Simbas class with her?

671
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:52.320
I asked Jackie about it and I really, I want to, um, it just the timing when the last one started

672
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.239
was we were still going through that, that book that I was talking about, the eight dates with

673
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.840
the Gottman book. So, um, yeah.

674
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:08.240
a good one. I will say this, I would highly recommend it. I'm 0 for 2 with Simbis. Maybe

675
00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:19.040
that makes me 2 for 2. Simbis is a really great way for you to see if you have staying power.

676
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:25.840
And when I took it, I took it once not with Jackie, I took it in person and there was

677
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:33.120
four, six of us couples and half of us were not engaged yet. Interestingly enough,

678
00:35:33.120 --> 00:35:36.880
the two of us that were not engaged ended up breaking up by the end.

679
00:35:39.120 --> 00:35:44.800
And then I took it with Jackie in my first year and there was 20 couples, I swear,

680
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:49.920
maybe it's 20 people, might've been 20 people. And I don't think only one couple was even engaged.

681
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:55.280
So most of us taking it weren't engaged yet. And I'm a big fan. My pastor's a big fan. He's like,

682
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:59.680
once you're engaged, the horse has left the barn. It's very hard to break up with somebody

683
00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:04.720
once you've announced to the world that you're engaged. So I think Simbis is, I think you guys

684
00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:15.200
have done enough time under your belt that you're probably needing to do a class like this to really

685
00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:20.800
start to ask yourselves the hard questions about how do you view money? How do you view family?

686
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:27.680
How do you view roles in the house? What is the top three things that you need? And here's the

687
00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:34.000
thing, Paul, whoever you marry, she's not gonna be able to fill all your needs. You have to just

688
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:41.280
decide, does she fill your top three needs? She ain't gonna fill all of them. But say your top

689
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:46.480
need was like, I need to be held at night. I just need to be held and touched. And if I was

690
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:51.360
marrying a guy that would never touch me or never have a deep conversation, I don't care how nice he

691
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.040
was, it just wouldn't work for me. Like I couldn't, I wouldn't, I would die. I would wither and die.

692
00:36:55.040 --> 00:37:01.040
And so for you, when you think about what you're not getting from her, something that's causing

693
00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:06.800
this, I need more from her. I mean, I think maybe you need to lean in with Holy Spirit and figure

694
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:11.440
out first what that's about. I think it'd be completely appropriate for you guys to have that

695
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:18.080
conversation about when you felt like, hey, when I pulled back physically, I don't know, were you,

696
00:37:18.080 --> 00:37:22.640
did you feel like I was rejecting you? Because if anything, I was trying to guard your heart.

697
00:37:22.640 --> 00:37:29.920
Like I was trying to honor you, not reject you. And so I think in the meantime, I think you guys

698
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:36.000
can have that conversation. I don't know how often Jackie does Symbus. I know that you can go online

699
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:43.120
and you can find facilitators in your home state. I'm a fan of doing some of that. I mean, I think

700
00:37:43.120 --> 00:37:47.520
it's great if you can get into Jackie's program, but you know, sometimes a local church near you

701
00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:52.560
is also running that class and you would do it in person with other couples. I would definitely say,

702
00:37:52.560 --> 00:37:58.480
do something like that before you decide to get engaged or to break up. Like, I feel like for you

703
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:06.320
guys, it would be a real good aha moment. Does Symbus have, I've heard of some kind of a test.

704
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:12.320
I couldn't tell you where they analyze your results. Yeah. So that's what it is.

705
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.200
Both take an assessment before the class even starts separately. There's like a hundred questions.

706
00:38:17.200 --> 00:38:22.240
I don't know. It feels like a hundred. It may not be a hundred. And it basically does almost like your

707
00:38:22.240 --> 00:38:29.360
personality profile and it does your family history. And so like one week. And so every week

708
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:39.520
you unpack as a group, a section of the report. So it's going to see your personality compatibility,

709
00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:46.560
your compatibility on finances, your compatibility on household chores and delineation of duties,

710
00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:53.040
your compatibility on sex, your compatibility on your faith and your family. So every single week

711
00:38:53.600 --> 00:38:58.800
you're, there's, you're looking at your results versus their results and you get homework questions.

712
00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:05.120
It was fun because I got to do the finance one. Jackie had me come in last, the last time for

713
00:39:05.120 --> 00:39:09.840
Symbus and I got to teach on the finance night. And it was fascinating to me how many people were

714
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.840
talking about getting married and they had not yet had any conversation about how to do finances

715
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:21.360
and what a budget looks like and who's going to manage the account. And we all know like money's a

716
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:28.640
funny topic. And one of the reasons why I pushed to do the Symbus class was I felt like the person

717
00:39:28.640 --> 00:39:33.520
I was dating was not being fully transparent on his financial situation. And lo and behold,

718
00:39:33.520 --> 00:39:39.200
I learned that I was not wrong in the Symbus class. And I was like, you can't, you can't lie

719
00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:44.000
your way out of it. It's like, it's one of those kinds of classes. Like you can't, you can't BS it.

720
00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:51.360
So if you have any credit score, I mean, that's the thing, like lie about that. You can't. Yeah.

721
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:55.600
I mean, do you guys, do you guys want children? Do you not want children? Do you have

722
00:39:55.600 --> 00:39:59.840
ministry goals that are similar? You know, the honor, the funny thing is everything you just.

723
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:05.680
mentioned like we've gone through every single one of those subjects that's what those eight dates

724
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:12.480
okay uh and so everything was rolling until the sex date that's when we're like a little bit

725
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:17.280
different and how i you know because they ask straight up questions how often do you anticipate

726
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:23.200
having sex every week right so then but then that brought some stuff up but then i feel like

727
00:40:23.200 --> 00:40:28.240
like that was an example of we worked on that because i'm like i learned that i'm not gonna

728
00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:34.160
be having sex every single day you know whenever i want it kind of a thing that's so funny when i

729
00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:38.160
was in my 20s and i was like talking to all my married friends somebody asked me that like wait

730
00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:45.120
you guys don't have sex every day you get married and you don't have sex every day they just laughed

731
00:40:45.120 --> 00:40:53.520
at me i was like but anyway i so i so i feel like we were you know even coming back together on that

732
00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:58.880
when i said all right i've done the work i realize it's just we're both both both of us

733
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:04.000
feeling okay every day at the same time it's not always gonna happen i get it i'll be fine with

734
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:10.240
that i just want to stay connected have you guys had a fight yet is this helping the rest of you

735
00:41:10.240 --> 00:41:15.440
guys josh and chris is this helping you guys i don't want you to feel like yeah we're dominating

736
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.280
this i'm gonna ask my i'm gonna ask paul one more question and then chris and josh i want you guys

737
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:23.840
to be able to ask some questions too but hopefully this is helping everybody what was my question

738
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:34.640
shit have we had a fight but are these guys you know have you had a fight yet yes i mean well

739
00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:38.400
well i don't know we've had disagreements and it's been that's why that's what's been

740
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:45.040
happening last couple weeks ever since the sex thing so tell me how do you guys do you guys

741
00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:52.480
fight fair yeah we're both neither one of us are external processors we're we're more like

742
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.880
distance you know we create distance um or you know like self-protective we're both similar in

743
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:03.760
that way um i don't know if that so i think yes because i don't think we trigger each other a lot

744
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:08.480
except right the trigger i mean because if you told me you didn't have any disagreements in

745
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:13.280
seven months i would say you're not going deep enough because everyone's gonna have disagreements

746
00:42:14.080 --> 00:42:20.640
um and that was one of the biggest reasons why i chose to break up with rick is he did not fight

747
00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:26.960
fair um the end of the fight we would come to a really great place but i felt destroyed and

748
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:34.400
annihilated during the fight and i thought i can't do that and so i remember saying that like

749
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:38.560
we're not fighting fair and like so then what would happen is i didn't like the way i was fighting like

750
00:42:38.560 --> 00:42:43.680
because when you feel annihilated you just start fighting back and so do you guys do you guys feel

751
00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:51.280
like you show respect when you're disagreeing yes yeah we do did he like use your vulnerability

752
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.760
against you is that was that what he would do yeah i'm very careful about that because i really i

753
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:01.520
know how hard it is for her i don't want to screw that up so i'm really like if i asked something

754
00:43:01.520 --> 00:43:08.080
that she was open and vulnerable about previously i really try to be delicate with it because i

755
00:43:08.160 --> 00:43:12.880
that's important i know how difficult it is i didn't grow up in a vulnerable share your feelings

756
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:18.320
household that's why i had to do all the work on you know and and so i'm really trying to be careful

757
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:24.640
i i hope i hope she'd say the same answer you know if she was here well you can ask her yeah

758
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:34.480
you can i mean you can ask her i mean so um when you guys have a disagreement do you like go to

759
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:38.800
your corners and take a day off and think about it see i'm a verbal processor so that probably

760
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:53.760
gets me in trouble like i i think out loud and uh so that does get me in trouble um well you know

761
00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:00.240
paul i mean it sounds like the only way you'll really know is if you stop talking to her for

762
00:44:00.240 --> 00:44:06.960
two weeks would you miss her like i think what is the phrase it's not just finding out if you can

763
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.600
you know live with somebody can you live without them do you feel like you can live without her

764
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:18.160
yes mike do you want i mean mike feel free to jump in here so so paul one of the things that

765
00:44:18.160 --> 00:44:23.920
gottman say and like you know because i've done this is kind of my wheelhouse in a way so um

766
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:29.520
how is she bidding for connection like how does she like she needs she's she's coming to you and

767
00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:35.440
she has like she has a need for connection right and like so and you have and you're saying hey i

768
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:40.960
need affirmation this is this is my need for connection right so the number one indicator

769
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:46.080
of a couple is going to work is how they manage their needs for connection because a lot of people

770
00:44:46.080 --> 00:44:50.400
don't realize it's even a it's called a bid for connection some people don't even realize that

771
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.000
they're trying to connect to me i just think they're annoying i mean like and they're and it's

772
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.840
off so i think um just something something to think about is

773
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.640
She's expressing bids for connection and you are as well.

774
00:45:04.640 --> 00:45:07.920
And if you guys can get that to where you guys can connect,

775
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.040
I think that would be huge.

776
00:45:09.040 --> 00:45:11.080
Cause it sounds like you guys are kind of missing

777
00:45:11.080 --> 00:45:12.520
on the connection part.

778
00:45:12.520 --> 00:45:14.760
And that was just my two cents.

779
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.680
That's good.

780
00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:17.500
That's good.

781
00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:20.080
So maybe ask her how, what are the things,

782
00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:21.720
when does she feel most connected to me?

783
00:45:21.720 --> 00:45:23.560
And then what precedes that kind of a thing?

784
00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:26.520
So she might need to help her find out

785
00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:27.640
or maybe she'd know right away.

786
00:45:27.640 --> 00:45:28.560
Yeah, I feel more.

787
00:45:28.560 --> 00:45:30.240
I know quality time's part of it,

788
00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:32.280
but I'd like to hear her answer on that.

789
00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:37.200
Is that true, Chris?

790
00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:40.240
It takes two months to find out if you miss somebody.

791
00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:42.440
Is that true for guys?

792
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:44.560
You wouldn't find out in like two weeks?

793
00:45:44.560 --> 00:45:46.680
For avoidance, yeah.

794
00:45:46.680 --> 00:45:48.400
Oh, okay.

795
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:49.640
You might feel relief.

796
00:45:49.640 --> 00:45:52.280
So an avoidant might feel relief at first.

797
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:54.680
Right, yeah.

798
00:45:54.680 --> 00:45:58.120
So you don't, so you're not gonna feel it, Paul.

799
00:45:59.040 --> 00:45:59.880
Yeah.

800
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:01.080
You're not gonna feel it.

801
00:46:01.080 --> 00:46:03.160
And so it's difficult to like,

802
00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:06.040
yeah.

803
00:46:06.040 --> 00:46:08.880
So as unlike a,

804
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:12.360
yeah.

805
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:15.160
An anxious will feel it even when there's nothing.

806
00:46:15.160 --> 00:46:16.640
Yeah, that's, my mind went blank.

807
00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:18.000
I didn't get enough sleep last night.

808
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.560
Unlike an anxious attachment person,

809
00:46:19.560 --> 00:46:21.280
you're not gonna feel it for a while.

810
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.280
So I think, I mean.

811
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:24.560
Anxious attachment people,

812
00:46:24.560 --> 00:46:26.640
we feel it before you even leave the room.

813
00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:30.400
Yeah, Renee, you probably feel like,

814
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:32.080
you probably can articulate it more.

815
00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:33.120
It's chemical, right?

816
00:46:33.120 --> 00:46:35.720
Like it's like biological chemical

817
00:46:35.720 --> 00:46:39.440
and your emotions reacclimate and then you feel it.

818
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:40.280
I mean, I.

819
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:43.240
However, I will say like after this last relationship,

820
00:46:43.240 --> 00:46:44.640
that's how I know it wasn't good

821
00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:47.640
because I had no anxious attachment issues.

822
00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:51.000
I literally just felt relieved and safe.

823
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.000
Like after months of not feeling safe,

824
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:54.520
I finally just felt safe again.

825
00:46:54.520 --> 00:46:56.920
So, and I'm like, and I'm not a typical avoidant.

826
00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:00.400
So, but yeah, it is chemical.

827
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.200
Like I can literally feel the hair

828
00:47:02.200 --> 00:47:03.680
on the back of my neck going up

829
00:47:03.680 --> 00:47:06.640
if I feel an avoidant, like starting to creep away.

830
00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:09.400
Like, you can feel it.

831
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:12.640
Oh my gosh.

832
00:47:12.640 --> 00:47:13.480
Well, this was good.

833
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:15.120
Chris, how can we help you tonight?

834
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:18.600
Can I ask one?

835
00:47:18.600 --> 00:47:19.800
Paul, are you guys,

836
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:21.640
are you doing community together?

837
00:47:21.640 --> 00:47:23.320
Like other than family?

838
00:47:25.520 --> 00:47:28.840
We don't go to church together.

839
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:32.720
We, we have, she has her best friend

840
00:47:32.720 --> 00:47:34.800
that we've gone on a couple of dates with.

841
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:36.600
I've met a couple, several of her friends.

842
00:47:36.600 --> 00:47:38.280
She had a pool party once.

843
00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:41.800
I try to, yeah.

844
00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:45.360
So that's, I think that's a yes, you know?

845
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:46.840
And really honestly, not as,

846
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:48.800
maybe not as much as I'd like.

847
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:50.840
And I think I really, I do miss her

848
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:52.400
and I saw her two days ago.

849
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:54.000
So I think that's a good sign.

850
00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:55.360
You know what I mean?

851
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:59.040
So, you know, I don't even think I need to wait two months.

852
00:47:59.040 --> 00:48:00.240
I just think we need to,

853
00:48:00.240 --> 00:48:01.640
I like a lot of these questions.

854
00:48:01.640 --> 00:48:03.640
You guys have really helped me.

855
00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:05.480
You think about some things, you know?

856
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:06.320
Good.

857
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:08.800
Could you do church together?

858
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:10.000
Is that like, would that,

859
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.080
I mean, that's less commitment than engagement.

860
00:48:12.080 --> 00:48:14.320
Like, is that something you guys could do?

861
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:15.160
Like decide where you're gonna be?

862
00:48:15.160 --> 00:48:16.000
Like seven months in,

863
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:18.400
I'm surprised you're not doing church together.

864
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:19.880
What about, what'd you say, Renee?

865
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:20.720
Seven months in,

866
00:48:20.720 --> 00:48:22.920
I'm surprised you're not doing church together.

867
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:24.600
So yeah, actually.

868
00:48:24.600 --> 00:48:26.040
And one of the other things I remembered

869
00:48:26.040 --> 00:48:27.560
is I just asked her on Saturday

870
00:48:27.560 --> 00:48:30.240
because we have fall life groups at my church.

871
00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:32.160
And one of them is like a,

872
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:33.560
we're seriously dating people.

873
00:48:33.560 --> 00:48:34.800
And I asked her about it.

874
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.440
Unfortunately, she already has a Tuesday night commitment,

875
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.960
but I was glad that I asked her.

876
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:40.400
I think she was glad that I asked her

877
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:42.480
because she likes it when I think ahead,

878
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.480
like things like that and plan, try to initiate things.

879
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:49.080
That's one thing she liked more initiation from me,

880
00:48:49.080 --> 00:48:50.760
like, you know, planning things ahead.

881
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.920
But anyway, I've expressed that.

882
00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:55.960
I'd like that.

883
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.840
She volunteers at a special needs room at her church

884
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:01.040
and she really loves that.

885
00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:03.120
So it's like, I really want that

886
00:49:03.120 --> 00:49:05.440
because spiritual connection is important for me.

887
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.200
And I have a lot of history with God.

888
00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:10.600
And I just, and she's about five years into her faith,

889
00:49:10.600 --> 00:49:14.040
but I don't have any reasons to doubt that she's serious.

890
00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:17.760
And so, and I'd love to just connect more on that.

891
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:20.400
But yeah, so it was hard to push her

892
00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:21.880
when she, you know, it's hard.

893
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:26.200
She's dealing with the grief of possibly, you know,

894
00:49:26.200 --> 00:49:28.720
needing to leave that if she comes to my church

895
00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:32.160
and that, and we kind of already did

896
00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:33.680
with the times we've shared a little bit

897
00:49:33.680 --> 00:49:35.640
about maybe having a future together.

898
00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:39.880
We have agreed that it would be my church

899
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:43.040
because of just the location and logistics.

900
00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:45.800
And, you know, if we got married,

901
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:48.640
she would live at my house at least, you know,

902
00:49:48.640 --> 00:49:50.600
until we found a place together kind of a thing.

903
00:49:50.600 --> 00:49:53.320
We kind of talked a little bit about those details.

904
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:56.080
So yeah, I don't know.

905
00:49:56.080 --> 00:49:57.440
So it's hard for me to really push,

906
00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:59.080
but I guess I can just share my heart and say,

907
00:49:59.080 --> 00:49:59.920
hey, I really.

908
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.560
One out like we go to the house of prayer. We went to say well

909
00:50:03.560 --> 00:50:08.460
You can do so do like a midweek service together or something. That's not on a Sunday morning

910
00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:12.320
There's a lot of there's a lot of ways for you guys to do spiritual life together

911
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:21.800
Community to Chris's point in community not like you guys doing a private Bible study together, but you can do Christian community together

912
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:26.600
And if that life group didn't work find another life group that's on a different night

913
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.040
Yeah

914
00:50:29.040 --> 00:50:34.100
Or you could even I mean just tell your church that hey, I'll be back unless you're a pastor

915
00:50:34.240 --> 00:50:37.320
You could just tell your church like hey, I'll be back. You know, like

916
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:44.400
I'm gonna like love her where she is right now. Yeah at some point. She won't have as hard of a time giving it up

917
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.000
Yeah

918
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:49.280
Like that

919
00:50:52.560 --> 00:50:54.560
Really

920
00:50:55.560 --> 00:51:00.200
Having really serious conversations, so it's time for you to be doing all this stuff

921
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:03.280
Yeah, I like the simplest idea

922
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:08.840
Yeah, I'm gonna have to watch the replay and go back and hear all your ideas. I do wasn't taking notes

923
00:51:09.600 --> 00:51:15.120
You know, I mean, we're just all brilliant here. We've got it all figured out even though we're all still

924
00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:18.120
Together

925
00:51:23.120 --> 00:51:26.420
We got we got one at least one whole person between all of us

926
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:33.960
I know Paul's in California Mike your California to write

927
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:38.960
Chris were you

928
00:51:39.600 --> 00:51:41.600
Oh

929
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:44.280
Ohio

930
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:51.000
So Paul, I just want to honor my question. Um, so I Renee I'm really you know, I

931
00:51:53.040 --> 00:51:57.000
You know just God bless you like I'm sorry you went through that that sounds really tough

932
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:03.600
And I guess maybe more than difficult because maybe it wasn't even difficult because it wasn't what you wanted

933
00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:07.120
But you know, it's discouraging. Um, I

934
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:13.120
and the other guys know this and definitely Mike and Josh know this but um, I

935
00:52:16.720 --> 00:52:18.720
Over two years ago

936
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:23.040
I felt God really prompt me to ask someone out and

937
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.880
I did and we kind of like we went on a date

938
00:52:27.240 --> 00:52:30.360
And she wasn't interested in anything more than that at that point

939
00:52:30.520 --> 00:52:33.160
so I backed off like way far and

940
00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:40.800
And then, you know, I like kind of was open to some other things and then I mean it was a God thing

941
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.800
Like I just like brought us back together

942
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:47.320
but before it just got confusing because like I

943
00:52:48.240 --> 00:52:52.680
Felt he was I felt somewhere along the line. I felt God told me no and

944
00:52:56.560 --> 00:53:03.140
So anyway, basically I just Jackie I think Jackie tends to think it's like just like anxiety and

945
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:05.840
intrusive thoughts

946
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:12.440
But we all we did have a lot of she's a solid solid believer a spiritual daughter

947
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.120
But are you guys together not and now or not? You're not

948
00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:20.260
No, but anyway, so so we broke that off. I broke up and it was

949
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:23.760
Horrific, like I couldn't sleep for several weeks

950
00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:30.800
And we only dated for a couple months. Okay, but um, you know a while later I

951
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.360
Got to know a girl in Florida who

952
00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:42.520
Basically I there's nothing in her character that I ever had any issue with

953
00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:49.640
Except for the fact she was a little pushy and demanding but aside from that

954
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.320
Absolutely amazing

955
00:53:54.680 --> 00:53:56.680
Pushy and demanding but totally amazing

956
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.920
Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, it's

957
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:03.640
anyway, so so I like

958
00:54:04.160 --> 00:54:11.760
But basically after several months after a few months and I the interesting thing is and this this has come up twice in this

959
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:14.080
conversation so I don't want to make too big of a deal of it, but

960
00:54:14.600 --> 00:54:18.720
We got to know each other in an online class. We talked a little bit

961
00:54:19.080 --> 00:54:23.680
She kept reaching out, you know, I did reach out a couple times just as a friend

962
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:28.960
then it basically became she was like the exclusive one reaching out and

963
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:36.880
We we talked about pursuing like getting to know each other meeting in person and

964
00:54:38.560 --> 00:54:45.160
You know, I I had some strange things that were going on in my heart and I finally straight-up told her I said

965
00:54:45.160 --> 00:54:49.120
I I don't want to hurt you. I don't feel peace about this

966
00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:54.920
I don't think I'm I don't think I'm able to say yes to anyone. I don't even know you

967
00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:59.960
I've never met you in person. I'm saying I don't think I am able to say yes right now

968
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:10.280
So like, and, but she kind of pushed me and amazing, gorgeous girl.

969
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:17.040
So basically like for the next couple of few months, I was working a full time, rather

970
00:55:17.040 --> 00:55:24.840
demanding job, remodeling a house while I'm renting another house and flying down to Florida

971
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:29.800
for like long weekends and stuff like that, which was, I look back now, it wasn't God

972
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:34.480
or Matthew, it must've been grace, but I look back now and it's like, that was stupid.

973
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:39.200
But basically I just like, my heart just like, wouldn't move forward.

974
00:55:39.200 --> 00:55:40.200
Yeah.

975
00:55:40.200 --> 00:55:45.600
Do you like have any, like, is that just like, okay?

976
00:55:45.600 --> 00:55:46.600
Cause like, I'll just be honest.

977
00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:47.600
It is okay.

978
00:55:47.600 --> 00:55:48.600
You know what?

979
00:55:48.600 --> 00:55:49.600
It is okay.

980
00:55:49.600 --> 00:55:50.720
It is okay.

981
00:55:50.720 --> 00:55:53.520
I mean this girl, this girl is absolutely gorgeous.

982
00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:57.880
Like it's not that, it's just like something about the personality, just like.

983
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:03.040
Are you guys still, are you guys still talking or on the fence or you stopped?

984
00:56:03.040 --> 00:56:06.000
Yeah, no, it's.

985
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.000
You know what?

986
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:13.520
And maybe Jackie would have a different answer, but I'm just a firm believer that if, if it's

987
00:56:13.520 --> 00:56:16.160
our person, we are mostly going to feel peace.

988
00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:18.240
I get that anxiety is going to come.

989
00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:20.240
I get that we're going to have our triggers.

990
00:56:20.240 --> 00:56:22.840
I get all that stuff.

991
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:28.120
But the base feeling we should feel is peace with that person.

992
00:56:28.120 --> 00:56:30.580
We should want to talk to them again.

993
00:56:30.580 --> 00:56:33.080
We should want to be with them.

994
00:56:33.080 --> 00:56:36.240
We should want like, that's the whole, it's a yes until it's a no.

995
00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:40.840
Like what we're all hearing with Paul is there's, there's enough want there.

996
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:42.600
There's enough peace in the relationship.

997
00:56:42.600 --> 00:56:48.040
Like he's kind of struggling in some areas, but he very much enjoys this person and has

998
00:56:48.040 --> 00:56:49.480
made a lot of investment.

999
00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:55.720
And I feel like if there's somebody that we're pursuing or is pursuing us and there's

1000
00:56:55.720 --> 00:57:01.360
just so much unrest, like God is not the God of confusion.

1001
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:05.800
And so if you have prayed about it, if you, I mean, just because she's hot, does it mean

1002
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:07.720
she's your person?

1003
00:57:07.720 --> 00:57:09.640
Like I mean, you know, right?

1004
00:57:09.640 --> 00:57:15.400
Like I just, I just meant like, it's not like I'm being like superficial, like there's some

1005
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:16.400
kind of emotional thing here.

1006
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:17.400
I feel you.

1007
00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:18.400
I feel you.

1008
00:57:19.040 --> 00:57:23.440
So are you worried that you, like you didn't have a good enough reason to end it until

1009
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:24.960
you feel bad about that?

1010
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.240
Um, you felt like, are you worried that you didn't?

1011
00:57:30.240 --> 00:57:33.880
I'm like, did I just, did I just shoot myself in the foot?

1012
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:36.000
Do you miss her?

1013
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.120
Or do you miss somebody?

1014
00:57:40.120 --> 00:57:43.800
Not like I miss the other person.

1015
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:46.920
Was the other person a healthy relationship?

1016
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.920
It was very early.

1017
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:51.920
It wasn't unhealthy.

1018
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:56.040
I only say that because sometimes when we miss a person, that's not a good thing.

1019
00:57:56.040 --> 00:57:59.040
Like sometimes we miss the high, the addiction, right?

1020
00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:01.040
That's what I'm trying to understand.

1021
00:58:01.040 --> 00:58:04.960
Those are the kinds of things that I haven't heard Jackie talk a lot about.

1022
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:12.680
So, um, but it wasn't, it wasn't unhealthy, it wasn't unhealthy.

1023
00:58:12.680 --> 00:58:20.320
It was just that, yeah, it was, if you have two relationships and you're like, why did

1024
00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:24.560
I miss this one more than I'm missing this one?

1025
00:58:24.560 --> 00:58:28.440
And the missing this one, is that a healthy missing?

1026
00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:36.200
Um, does, when you have the missing for this other person, is it a peaceful missing or

1027
00:58:36.200 --> 00:58:40.600
is it an anxious missing?

1028
00:58:40.640 --> 00:58:45.120
I would say looking back and being like, even though I was really struggling to know whether

1029
00:58:45.120 --> 00:58:50.760
we were compatible, had concerns about whether we were actually compatible, I just always

1030
00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:53.960
liked being with this person.

1031
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:55.760
Yeah.

1032
00:58:55.760 --> 00:59:03.160
Well, and at certain ages we can like being with somebody, but at an older age, that's

1033
00:59:03.160 --> 00:59:04.360
not enough.

1034
00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:09.880
They have to be, they have to have the same values, beliefs, goals, dreams, right?

1035
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:13.720
Like you can like a lot of people that aren't good for you.

1036
00:59:13.720 --> 00:59:18.280
Like I can think about some guys that I've dated that are like, oh my gosh, I really

1037
00:59:18.280 --> 00:59:20.160
miss that guy.

1038
00:59:20.160 --> 00:59:22.960
But we were not, we were not going in the same direction.

1039
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:25.060
We just weren't.

1040
00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:29.560
And so was this person somebody, I mean, do you feel like you miss more of the fantasy

1041
00:59:29.560 --> 00:59:33.760
of what could have been, or did you just, did you guys spend a lot of time together

1042
00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:37.560
and like in person time together?

1043
00:59:37.560 --> 00:59:39.520
With the one I actually missed?

1044
00:59:39.520 --> 00:59:40.520
You're really missing.

1045
00:59:40.520 --> 00:59:42.200
Did you spend a lot of in-person time?

1046
00:59:42.200 --> 00:59:44.120
She lives up the road.

1047
00:59:44.120 --> 00:59:46.160
She still lives up the road from you?

1048
00:59:46.160 --> 00:59:47.160
Yeah.

1049
00:59:47.160 --> 00:59:50.160
Is she still single?

1050
00:59:50.160 --> 00:59:51.160
Yeah.

1051
00:59:51.160 --> 00:59:52.800
And why did you guys break up?

1052
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:59.680
Well, this is a long, this is a long, I mean, I could go on, but I guess I just like, I've

1053
00:59:59.680 --> 01:00:00.000
never.

1054
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:01.400
I've never heard Jackie talk about it.

1055
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:04.120
I've never heard Jackie talk about this topic.

1056
01:00:04.120 --> 01:00:05.200
Well, what's the topic?

1057
01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:07.040
Tell me what the topic is that you're confused about.

1058
01:00:07.040 --> 01:00:10.080
The topic is being a trap, like trauma attraction.

1059
01:00:10.080 --> 01:00:11.040
Oh, trauma bond?

1060
01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:12.080
Okay, trauma bond.

1061
01:00:13.640 --> 01:00:17.040
And being addicted to like the chase

1062
01:00:17.040 --> 01:00:18.800
and not the actual person.

1063
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:22.000
Being addicted to the fantasy and not the actual person.

1064
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:22.840
Yeah, okay.

1065
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:23.920
Because like, when I look back,

1066
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:24.960
when I look back at,

1067
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:26.580
cause she's not a part of,

1068
01:00:26.580 --> 01:00:28.380
the second girl was part of this community,

1069
01:00:28.380 --> 01:00:29.740
the first was not.

1070
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:33.200
I figured the second one was a part of this community.

1071
01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:35.160
When I look back at Alex,

1072
01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:38.200
it was like, it was so fun and easy.

1073
01:00:39.080 --> 01:00:41.960
Whereas with the girl that was part of this community,

1074
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:44.720
it was like, it was, I just,

1075
01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:45.560
the whole thing was like-

1076
01:00:45.560 --> 01:00:48.240
Well, part of the problem with the Florida one

1077
01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:49.440
is she was long distance.

1078
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:51.840
So that's gonna make it not easy at all.

1079
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:54.000
And it's gonna make it not as fun.

1080
01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.640
It's not gonna make it fun at all.

1081
01:00:55.640 --> 01:00:56.760
So I think those are,

1082
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:58.560
I feel like those are apples and oranges.

1083
01:00:58.580 --> 01:01:01.580
It is so hard to date long distance.

1084
01:01:01.580 --> 01:01:04.360
Like you gotta be all in in it to win it

1085
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:06.820
because you can only do so much digital.

1086
01:01:06.820 --> 01:01:09.100
It's like, you know, I mean,

1087
01:01:09.100 --> 01:01:11.220
so I feel like it's not fair

1088
01:01:11.220 --> 01:01:13.300
cause you have no idea what it would.

1089
01:01:13.300 --> 01:01:16.260
Now, when you were with the Florida person in person,

1090
01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:17.940
did you guys enjoy each other?

1091
01:01:20.100 --> 01:01:22.940
Yeah, I mean, I would always kind of settle down.

1092
01:01:22.940 --> 01:01:24.380
We always did Jesus stuff.

1093
01:01:24.380 --> 01:01:25.900
It was always amazing.

1094
01:01:25.900 --> 01:01:28.180
But I didn't like, I didn't-

1095
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:30.160
You always did Jesus stuff?

1096
01:01:30.160 --> 01:01:31.000
I just mean like everything-

1097
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.400
You were really not Jesus stuff?

1098
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:35.520
I just mean like, it was like, yeah,

1099
01:01:35.520 --> 01:01:37.600
but it was always amazing.

1100
01:01:37.600 --> 01:01:42.040
But like, she said once, she said,

1101
01:01:42.040 --> 01:01:44.280
I don't know that you like being around me.

1102
01:01:46.080 --> 01:01:47.760
And I was like-

1103
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:49.000
Did you?

1104
01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:51.160
Sometimes when people say things,

1105
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:56.440
it's difficult to, she said like every time,

1106
01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:58.940
she said oftentimes when I come up to you,

1107
01:01:58.940 --> 01:02:00.560
you seem to like draw back.

1108
01:02:01.900 --> 01:02:04.300
And I'm like, I can't deny it.

1109
01:02:04.300 --> 01:02:05.820
So it was true?

1110
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:07.100
It was true.

1111
01:02:07.100 --> 01:02:09.060
Yeah, so then she was not your person.

1112
01:02:09.980 --> 01:02:11.300
So she was not your person,

1113
01:02:11.300 --> 01:02:13.500
but the question you're asking is,

1114
01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:16.820
how do I know if what I'm connected to

1115
01:02:16.820 --> 01:02:18.180
is a healthy connection

1116
01:02:18.180 --> 01:02:20.340
or is it like a trauma bond connection?

1117
01:02:21.940 --> 01:02:25.040
I will say this, when I have trauma bond connections

1118
01:02:25.060 --> 01:02:28.700
with somebody either in my present or in my past,

1119
01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:33.420
your heart races, your breath is different.

1120
01:02:33.420 --> 01:02:37.860
There's a little anxiety, anxiousness.

1121
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:41.300
There's a heightened, like your body is just heightened.

1122
01:02:41.300 --> 01:02:45.900
When you miss somebody that's a healthy miss,

1123
01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:49.380
it's a more calm, peaceful miss.

1124
01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:52.860
So like literally your heart rate, your blood pressure,

1125
01:02:52.860 --> 01:02:56.520
your pulse is very, when it's trauma bonded,

1126
01:02:56.520 --> 01:02:57.860
it's very heightened.

1127
01:02:59.160 --> 01:03:02.200
And when it's a healthy miss, like I miss,

1128
01:03:02.200 --> 01:03:04.800
I can't even believe I'm saying this, I miss my dad.

1129
01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:08.520
I literally never thought this side of the veil,

1130
01:03:08.520 --> 01:03:12.360
I would miss my dad who went home and I miss him.

1131
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:14.080
I just miss him.

1132
01:03:14.080 --> 01:03:17.720
There's some people from Connecticut that I just miss them.

1133
01:03:17.720 --> 01:03:19.040
I miss their friendship.

1134
01:03:20.080 --> 01:03:22.640
It doesn't make me like get all anxious.

1135
01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:24.320
I just miss them.

1136
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:26.460
But then when I think about some of the unhealthy

1137
01:03:26.460 --> 01:03:30.140
relationships I had and the high that I used to get from it,

1138
01:03:30.140 --> 01:03:32.260
like, golly, he was so good.

1139
01:03:32.260 --> 01:03:33.100
Like, you know what I mean?

1140
01:03:33.100 --> 01:03:36.980
Like I miss them, but there's just something about it.

1141
01:03:36.980 --> 01:03:40.420
Like it doesn't have the same calm that goes with it.

1142
01:03:40.420 --> 01:03:41.720
Does that make sense?

1143
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:46.540
So I think that's how you can tell the body keeps a score.

1144
01:03:46.540 --> 01:03:49.920
So I think that's how you can tell if you're missing

1145
01:03:49.940 --> 01:03:54.580
somebody or your attraction to somebody is healthy

1146
01:03:54.580 --> 01:03:59.260
because the whole body is going to tell you a story.

1147
01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:03.600
Does that help give you any kind of insight to this?

1148
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:08.820
I guess not anything new necessarily,

1149
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:10.960
but it's just, it is helpful to hear.

1150
01:04:12.580 --> 01:04:15.600
So when you miss this person, do you,

1151
01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:17.340
like, how does it make you feel?

1152
01:04:17.340 --> 01:04:18.860
Are you just a little sad?

1153
01:04:20.500 --> 01:04:22.640
Or do you feel, like, anxious?

1154
01:04:26.540 --> 01:04:28.660
I mean, there is the level of, like.

1155
01:04:32.100 --> 01:04:33.180
Can you go back to her?

1156
01:04:33.180 --> 01:04:36.020
Is she somebody that you need to circle back with?

1157
01:04:36.020 --> 01:04:37.300
Or is that off the table?

1158
01:04:39.340 --> 01:04:41.300
This spring she reached out to me

1159
01:04:41.300 --> 01:04:43.100
and we've talked a couple of times this summer.

1160
01:04:43.100 --> 01:04:45.260
Right now she's back and forth from Kansas

1161
01:04:45.260 --> 01:04:47.780
because her mom is getting cancer treatment.

1162
01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:48.620
Okay.

1163
01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:50.480
She's gone for like three or four weeks at a time

1164
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:51.320
and stopped back.

1165
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:54.360
She'll stop back in for a weekend or two and then go back.

1166
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:57.800
So you guys have almost opened the door just a little bit.

1167
01:04:57.800 --> 01:04:59.780
We've opened, she.

1168
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:06.380
from if I piece the parts together my past our pastors coaching her on taking

1169
01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:11.800
over her mom's business and apparently there was something said between Steve

1170
01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:16.760
and her and on the way back from that meeting she just like picked up the

1171
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:22.840
phone and called me for the first time we hadn't talked for like well we never

1172
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:28.360
talked the entire time I was talking to this other girl and plus some so it was

1173
01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:34.600
kind of like an out-of-the-blue just like hey how you doing and and and so

1174
01:05:34.600 --> 01:05:40.120
basically she kind of said hey like you ever want to talk like I'm open if not

1175
01:05:40.120 --> 01:05:46.960
that's fine too and so I keep going keep going finish your sentence so I I

1176
01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:52.560
basically like I was heading this was heading this was like June I was heading

1177
01:05:52.560 --> 01:05:56.320
into the summer like really trying to like focus on in my life and get some

1178
01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:05.520
stuff wrapped up and but at the same time I could not just ignore that you

1179
01:06:05.520 --> 01:06:10.100
know I did not feel like my personality I could not ignore that and so we talked

1180
01:06:10.100 --> 01:06:16.240
and I said Alex like you know there's no secret how we both felt about each

1181
01:06:16.240 --> 01:06:22.520
other and I said Alex like if if I could if I was in a position where I was able

1182
01:06:22.520 --> 01:06:28.600
to pursue a relationship again or could explore that again I would be sure to I

1183
01:06:28.600 --> 01:06:34.000
would let you know directly and at first she was a little flustered you know

1184
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:38.480
because she was hurt and but at the same time like we talked things through we

1185
01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:42.000
talked a little bit about a relationship and what we've learned since then and

1186
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:48.040
because I because like silent in my mind silence would have been I don't care and

1187
01:06:48.040 --> 01:06:53.720
I didn't I'm confused I'm confused Chris so if this is the person that got

1188
01:06:53.720 --> 01:07:00.160
away and you miss her more than you've missed anybody else and she's basically

1189
01:07:00.160 --> 01:07:04.120
walking back into your life and you're saying that you don't have it to give

1190
01:07:04.120 --> 01:07:07.000
are you just do you feel like you're just not in a healthy place to be

1191
01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:13.240
dating anyone right now like I'm kind of confused I'm I have no intention of

1192
01:07:13.240 --> 01:07:20.280
dating anyone right now until I get some things like figured out okay Paul

1193
01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:25.160
when you were saying sounds like love addiction what were you referencing

1194
01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:31.040
referencing I was reading something recently about the pursuit addiction

1195
01:07:31.040 --> 01:07:34.680
wanting to pursue yeah cuz I was struggling a little bit with like yeah

1196
01:07:34.680 --> 01:07:39.040
like I hate finding somebody like not but then all of a sudden I was in this

1197
01:07:39.200 --> 01:07:43.520
so anyway I was just well and it did and it's not really matching because she's

1198
01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:50.520
coming back around and he's kind of pushing her away those things that you're

1199
01:07:50.520 --> 01:07:54.440
the reasons I don't need to know the reasons because Mike's asking you do you

1200
01:07:54.440 --> 01:08:00.160
want her in your life like I wonder if it's easier to miss her the old version

1201
01:08:00.160 --> 01:08:04.960
of her and who she used to be and what it used to be then actually invest in a

1202
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:10.960
current version of each of you well it's not that it's not that I wouldn't

1203
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:16.080
want to go spend time with her like if I could if I did what I wanted to do I

1204
01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:23.080
would go hang out with her but I cannot go back into that I can't like tear up

1205
01:08:23.080 --> 01:08:27.800
our hearts again I can't go back into that until I like have pretty solid that

1206
01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:32.520
like yes we may realize we're not incompatible but I'm not back out of

1207
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:37.040
this just because I get scared like so I have to go and Jackie said the same

1208
01:08:37.040 --> 01:08:40.160
thing she's like you can't date her again you can't try to date her again

1209
01:08:40.160 --> 01:08:44.800
where you are right now you have to obviously Jackie knows more than I do

1210
01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:49.479
about what's going on in your life okay well what you can't do is be halfway

1211
01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:53.000
with an ex I'm sorry I just don't believe that like when people are like

1212
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:58.399
oh well we can just be friends that's crap like like I'm if somebody like if

1213
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:04.120
you guys broke each other's hearts or whatever and there could be a future you

1214
01:09:04.120 --> 01:09:08.120
can't do this halfway like hey let's kind of talk and be friends like you're

1215
01:09:08.120 --> 01:09:12.720
either gonna be pursuing again or you're not I don't know we're we're not we had

1216
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:20.600
we had two conversations yeah back in like June and you know I think last time

1217
01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:24.760
she was in town it was like it was like two text messages hey how's your mom

1218
01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:34.359
doing yeah well I'm gonna be praying for you guys Mike I I only want you to

1219
01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:39.720
put time and energy into a girl that's all in for you man I don't want you

1220
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:46.760
wasting on any time on a chick that's out of the country that's just giving

1221
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:51.479
you crumbs off the banquet table and I don't want her just I don't even know

1222
01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:56.360
who she is so I'm not even trying to diss her I'm just saying and this goes

1223
01:09:56.360 --> 01:10:01.680
for all of you guys you guys deserve to get the very best

1224
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.840
out of somebody, never feel like you're only the one giving

1225
01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:06.400
and the other person is on the receiving end.

1226
01:10:06.400 --> 01:10:08.400
Like, yes, you wanna meet their needs

1227
01:10:08.400 --> 01:10:09.760
and that's a good and godly thing.

1228
01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:11.480
That's like, that's a total male thing,

1229
01:10:11.480 --> 01:10:14.640
but like your needs get to matter too.

1230
01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:17.240
And so I don't want any of you to accept

1231
01:10:17.240 --> 01:10:19.160
less than all that you deserve.

1232
01:10:22.440 --> 01:10:23.280
That's what I think.

1233
01:10:23.280 --> 01:10:25.440
I think you all deserve something amazing, right?

1234
01:10:25.440 --> 01:10:26.520
Yeah.

1235
01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.240
Hey Mike, can I ask a question?

1236
01:10:29.240 --> 01:10:32.400
So Renee can comment, otherwise I'd message you later.

1237
01:10:32.400 --> 01:10:35.160
Have you ever, and this is gonna hear me out,

1238
01:10:35.160 --> 01:10:37.920
hear my heart, then before you judge,

1239
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:42.920
have you ever like watched podcasts or that kind of thing

1240
01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:50.720
and about attraction and male attraction, attracting women,

1241
01:10:51.320 --> 01:10:53.760
where you have to like tune out some parts of it?

1242
01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:56.880
Does that make any sense?

1243
01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:59.240
Have you ever watched any material on dating

1244
01:10:59.240 --> 01:11:01.600
that you've had to like be like, well, that's not godly.

1245
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:03.400
I'm not gonna pay attention to that

1246
01:11:03.400 --> 01:11:06.040
because I'll just be honest to you.

1247
01:11:06.040 --> 01:11:10.480
Like there's just a little bit of like

1248
01:11:11.440 --> 01:11:14.040
a few rules to the game.

1249
01:11:14.040 --> 01:11:17.560
And I haven't heard Jackie like talk about it much.

1250
01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:19.760
I haven't been involved in all the discussions,

1251
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:24.760
but you know, if, I don't know, I'm just,

1252
01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:30.400
yeah, I guess I don't mean to be dicey,

1253
01:11:30.400 --> 01:11:31.720
but I'm just saying like,

1254
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:34.760
in terms of like communication styles and stuff like that,

1255
01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:35.960
and it's not manipulated.

1256
01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:37.760
I'm not saying manipulate someone.

1257
01:11:37.760 --> 01:11:41.480
I'm just saying like learning how to like attract someone.

1258
01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:48.320
You meaning like, you think that, Chris,

1259
01:11:48.320 --> 01:11:50.880
do you think Mike is being too generous with this person?

1260
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:52.880
And so she's taking advantage of that?

1261
01:11:54.160 --> 01:11:56.760
I wonder if Mike's being too generous with this person

1262
01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:58.920
so it doesn't create attraction.

1263
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:00.400
And I don't mean play games.

1264
01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:01.960
I don't mean play games.

1265
01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:05.000
I just know that like.

1266
01:12:07.600 --> 01:12:10.600
So for clarity, right?

1267
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.000
So like for the only person I've actually

1268
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.480
really heavily pursued in this whole group,

1269
01:12:17.480 --> 01:12:19.480
very complicated scenario.

1270
01:12:19.480 --> 01:12:21.440
She's in a really interesting thing.

1271
01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:24.960
I came on, well, my anxious went full blown,

1272
01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:26.600
which was shitty.

1273
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:28.640
I just so bad, right?

1274
01:12:31.440 --> 01:12:32.560
I can hate that, right?

1275
01:12:32.560 --> 01:12:34.760
You know, like I get so, I'm extroverted.

1276
01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:37.640
So I get like wound and then the anxious thing.

1277
01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:40.360
And so I kind of freaked her out a little bit

1278
01:12:40.360 --> 01:12:42.600
and I completely own that.

1279
01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:47.320
But I like, we've been chatting and I love it.

1280
01:12:48.160 --> 01:12:49.240
I love actually talking with her.

1281
01:12:49.240 --> 01:12:53.040
I mean, we have so much in common,

1282
01:12:53.040 --> 01:12:56.560
but like it's such a fucked scenario.

1283
01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:57.400
I'm sorry.

1284
01:12:57.400 --> 01:12:58.800
It's such a bad scenario.

1285
01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:03.800
And so I just, I really appreciate her friendship.

1286
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:05.200
I really do like her.

1287
01:13:05.200 --> 01:13:07.320
I mean, I do really care for her,

1288
01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:10.440
but I don't, you're saying the blessing to,

1289
01:13:10.440 --> 01:13:12.320
I'm a naturally generous person

1290
01:13:12.320 --> 01:13:14.320
and Jackie was kind of calling me on that,

1291
01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:18.800
to not lead with the fullness of who I am.

1292
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:19.640
It's not true.

1293
01:13:19.640 --> 01:13:23.640
To like, not with the benefits, but with me, right?

1294
01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:25.920
So, but are you saying that I'm,

1295
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:28.360
Chris, from what I thought I hear you saying is like,

1296
01:13:28.360 --> 01:13:33.360
I'm pushing, I'm trying to be safe by like flooding it.

1297
01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:35.800
I don't, I was trying to understand

1298
01:13:37.520 --> 01:13:39.640
where you're coming at.

1299
01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:40.480
You're muted.

1300
01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:42.600
I'm going to shoot straight, Renee.

1301
01:13:45.400 --> 01:13:48.040
I just, I just don't want you to be too nice

1302
01:13:48.040 --> 01:13:49.640
because that can be a turnoff.

1303
01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:51.400
And I don't mean manipulate her.

1304
01:13:51.400 --> 01:13:52.240
That's not what I'm saying.

1305
01:13:52.240 --> 01:13:54.040
I don't know how to be a turnoff.

1306
01:13:54.040 --> 01:13:56.240
I don't, I'm not saying being-

1307
01:13:56.240 --> 01:13:59.120
I agree with, I think I agree with what Chris is saying.

1308
01:13:59.120 --> 01:14:01.840
I didn't know what you were saying before, Chris,

1309
01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:05.280
but I thought you were saying he was being nice to ruin it.

1310
01:14:05.280 --> 01:14:07.480
But yes, there is too nice.

1311
01:14:07.480 --> 01:14:08.800
There is too nice.

1312
01:14:09.640 --> 01:14:11.200
There is too nice.

1313
01:14:11.200 --> 01:14:12.920
There is giving too much.

1314
01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:15.760
And so, you know how like it's the,

1315
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:18.600
you know how they say the men like the chase

1316
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:21.640
and so we can't like show our hand too much.

1317
01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:24.440
It actually works in the other direction too.

1318
01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:30.200
If someone like overwhelms you

1319
01:14:30.200 --> 01:14:33.360
with too much of an amazing thing

1320
01:14:34.320 --> 01:14:38.040
and you don't have the capacity to receive it

1321
01:14:38.080 --> 01:14:42.720
or give it back, you're gonna kind of push it away.

1322
01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:44.520
Now she's able to manage you

1323
01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:48.560
because you guys have a continent dividing you.

1324
01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:53.560
But I just, I just feel like that's my,

1325
01:14:55.080 --> 01:15:00.080
so my concern is you are meeting her needs.

1326
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:04.140
needs for whatever it is that she's willing to get out of this friendship because she's

1327
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:08.800
talking to you sometimes too, but she doesn't need anything else than what you're giving

1328
01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:15.960
her because either that's all she has the capacity for in her life right now and or

1329
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:17.740
she wants to meet somebody local.

1330
01:15:17.740 --> 01:15:23.320
So you're filling this bucket for now, but the problem is you want more.

1331
01:15:23.320 --> 01:15:31.320
So your needs aren't getting met and so you're, you're getting unequally balanced here, which

1332
01:15:31.320 --> 01:15:33.640
is kind of what we started up about with Paul.

1333
01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:34.640
Like right.

1334
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:37.880
If she's got her needs met, but now she's not willing to meet his needs.

1335
01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:42.240
So she's got to go like, okay, like he worked to meet my needs.

1336
01:15:42.240 --> 01:15:43.920
So is that kind of what you're saying, Chris?

1337
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:47.240
It's like, she's going to keep talking to you because man, if like you're great and

1338
01:15:47.240 --> 01:15:51.560
you're a fun guy and you got this big distance between you, so she doesn't have to ever deal

1339
01:15:51.560 --> 01:15:57.320
with dating you, but that's going to, it's going to stop you.

1340
01:15:57.320 --> 01:16:00.240
It's keeping you trapped in this connected.

1341
01:16:00.240 --> 01:16:01.360
Yeah.

1342
01:16:01.360 --> 01:16:06.760
And also like just what you said, Renee, if someone's not green, if someone's not like

1343
01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:11.760
into this thing and you keep like, you're still there, you're just like closing their

1344
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.840
heart down even more.

1345
01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:19.080
And so just, just real quick, I mean just real quick, um, the girl that I mentioned

1346
01:16:19.080 --> 01:16:23.720
that Alex, who we were pretty close and really enjoyed each other.

1347
01:16:23.720 --> 01:16:29.440
I was like curious, you know, in some ways I thought she was always too cool for me,

1348
01:16:29.440 --> 01:16:34.200
but I was like curious and I helped her with some projects at her house.

1349
01:16:34.200 --> 01:16:39.060
And then finally one night she said, you know, I'm not, I don't feel the same way about you

1350
01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:41.480
that you do about me.

1351
01:16:41.480 --> 01:16:46.960
And I looked at her and I was like, okay, that's, I'm glad that's out.

1352
01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:50.560
And I don't, cause I know how hard it is to force these things.

1353
01:16:50.560 --> 01:16:55.800
And we laughed and I finished shutting up her television and I wrote her a note the

1354
01:16:55.800 --> 01:16:56.800
next Sunday.

1355
01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:01.840
I was over at her house with a bunch of other people for a super bowl the next day.

1356
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:08.840
And two days after that, she was like wanting to see me again and everything changed.

1357
01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:14.160
But because in that moment, and again, it breaks my heart, like my, my, my intentions

1358
01:17:14.160 --> 01:17:15.160
were totally pure.

1359
01:17:15.160 --> 01:17:18.680
And I'm just saying, because she said, I'm not there.

1360
01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:20.920
And I was like, that's okay.

1361
01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:22.920
I think you're, I think you're cool.

1362
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:25.120
I'm glad we had this sorted out.

1363
01:17:25.120 --> 01:17:26.560
That's laugh.

1364
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:29.040
You know, I'll see you around.

1365
01:17:29.040 --> 01:17:31.480
That opened her heart up.

1366
01:17:31.480 --> 01:17:35.600
Now I had zero intention of being manipulative, zero.

1367
01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:37.320
So okay.

1368
01:17:37.320 --> 01:17:42.360
Just like, because like this whole thing, like, cause I felt like I had a friend and

1369
01:17:42.360 --> 01:17:44.960
I have this feeling in myself that I needed to pull back.

1370
01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:45.960
Right.

1371
01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:48.240
And you know, like what, what if she comes back?

1372
01:17:48.240 --> 01:17:51.880
Like, like you said, like what if she comes back?

1373
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:53.920
Like do I just let it go?

1374
01:17:53.920 --> 01:18:00.600
And I just feel like Mike, your, your head is so far in this, like you have to pull back

1375
01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:06.440
for your, you're so emotionally attached to her that you have to pull back for your own

1376
01:18:06.440 --> 01:18:07.440
sanity.

1377
01:18:07.440 --> 01:18:09.840
Now, will she kind of pull back in?

1378
01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:13.520
Of course she will, because you're meeting her bucket.

1379
01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:16.480
So she's going to fill this loss.

1380
01:18:16.480 --> 01:18:21.640
And so she's going to kind of come back in, but she's still not giving you what you want.

1381
01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:23.840
And she's still going to be getting her needs met.

1382
01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:27.440
But the problem is her getting her needs met is hurting you.

1383
01:18:27.440 --> 01:18:29.680
So what if she will, okay.

1384
01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:34.880
So in that scenario, you'd have to be, she'd have to be for her to come back in.

1385
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:39.400
What Chris and I are trying to say is for her to come back in, she needs to come back

1386
01:18:39.400 --> 01:18:42.920
all in, like not just talk to you every day.

1387
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:45.800
And, but like, Mike, I realize I miss you.

1388
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:47.680
I realize I want to date you.

1389
01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:49.920
I don't care that there's a country dividing us.

1390
01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:52.880
We're going to find a way to see each other in person.

1391
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:58.840
Like we're going to give it a go unless she comes in that strong.

1392
01:18:58.840 --> 01:19:01.160
She's just going to come back in to get her needs met.

1393
01:19:01.160 --> 01:19:02.160
Okay, cool.

1394
01:19:02.160 --> 01:19:06.040
No, that was what, that's why I wanted, cause I didn't want to throw it out, you know, like

1395
01:19:06.040 --> 01:19:09.560
the baby out with the bathwater, but like, what does it look like if it's like legitimately

1396
01:19:09.560 --> 01:19:10.560
coming back?

1397
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:15.880
Legitimately coming back is she wants to do more than just talk to you every day.

1398
01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:16.880
Chris is agreeing with me.

1399
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:19.680
I don't even know her, but that's, that's what I'm thinking.

1400
01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:25.720
Like I think if somebody swings back in, they got to call full court, full court press.

1401
01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:29.280
Like they've got to show a reason to earn their way back in.

1402
01:19:29.280 --> 01:19:31.920
Josh, you've been quiet since you first got on the phone.

1403
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:32.920
I see your home now.

1404
01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:39.120
And do you want to share any wisdom, ask anything of the two amazing men that are still

1405
01:19:39.120 --> 01:19:40.120
here?

1406
01:19:40.120 --> 01:19:41.280
I mean, it doesn't have to be me too.

1407
01:19:41.280 --> 01:19:43.680
So I'm glad you guys are all here.

1408
01:19:43.680 --> 01:19:45.960
This has been fun tonight.

1409
01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:48.960
You're muted though.

1410
01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:49.960
I don't have anything.

1411
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:50.960
Has this been good for you?

1412
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:51.960
I don't.

1413
01:19:51.960 --> 01:19:52.960
All this drama?

1414
01:19:52.960 --> 01:19:53.960
I usually just listen.

1415
01:19:53.960 --> 01:19:54.960
Oh, okay.

1416
01:19:54.960 --> 01:19:55.960
Well, Josh, we're glad you're here.

1417
01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:56.960
I mean, learn a lot.

1418
01:19:56.960 --> 01:19:57.960
Learn a lot.

1419
01:19:57.960 --> 01:19:58.960
Learn a lot.

1420
01:19:58.960 --> 01:19:59.960
Learn a lot.

1421
01:19:59.960 --> 01:20:00.960
Learn a lot.

1422
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.760
Learn from, learn from the men.

1423
01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:01.960
Learn a lot.

1424
01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:03.120
I mean, learn from them.

1425
01:20:03.120 --> 01:20:04.280
You guys, it's hard.

1426
01:20:04.280 --> 01:20:08.680
Like doing life and dating and, you know, over 25 is,

1427
01:20:08.680 --> 01:20:10.320
it's just not the same as it used to be.

1428
01:20:10.320 --> 01:20:12.160
And we're coming in with a lot more baggage,

1429
01:20:12.160 --> 01:20:13.400
a lot more stuff.

1430
01:20:14.860 --> 01:20:17.440
Chris, I don't know what it is that you have to do

1431
01:20:17.440 --> 01:20:20.280
and take care of in your story, in your life,

1432
01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:25.280
but you seem too great to wait too long to get it all right.

1433
01:20:25.760 --> 01:20:28.060
So I hope you don't wait too long

1434
01:20:28.060 --> 01:20:29.960
to get yourself back in the game.

1435
01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:34.340
Because I believe that there is somebody

1436
01:20:34.340 --> 01:20:36.780
who would want to walk that journey out with you.

1437
01:20:38.300 --> 01:20:39.660
That's all I'm going to say.

1438
01:20:39.660 --> 01:20:40.640
I'm just supposed to tell you that.

1439
01:20:40.640 --> 01:20:42.340
That's what I'm supposed to tell you.

1440
01:20:42.340 --> 01:20:44.360
Yeah, Josh, how are you doing?

1441
01:20:44.360 --> 01:20:45.640
Like you don't have to say too much,

1442
01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:47.700
but how's your heart these days?

1443
01:20:47.700 --> 01:20:48.540
Yeah.

1444
01:20:50.980 --> 01:20:53.400
I almost tapped my bigger screen.

1445
01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:58.920
So I have that up so I can use the keyboard if I need to.

1446
01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:01.200
But to your question,

1447
01:21:01.200 --> 01:21:03.960
I think the thing that I'm struggling with

1448
01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:07.360
is the difference between surrender and giving up.

1449
01:21:07.360 --> 01:21:08.880
And I know the difference,

1450
01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:13.280
but the real challenge is always the part

1451
01:21:13.280 --> 01:21:17.600
of accepting one over the other.

1452
01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:21.600
It's, you know, it's fun to,

1453
01:21:21.600 --> 01:21:25.040
it's fun and pleasurable to be sad,

1454
01:21:25.040 --> 01:21:26.720
if you know what I mean.

1455
01:21:26.720 --> 01:21:27.560
Yeah.

1456
01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:29.080
And to go through the motions.

1457
01:21:29.080 --> 01:21:30.880
That's always the kicker.

1458
01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:32.940
It's like, you know, it's not right.

1459
01:21:32.940 --> 01:21:35.360
And you're not intentionally doing it yet.

1460
01:21:35.360 --> 01:21:37.560
In some unconscious way,

1461
01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:40.400
you want to drag it out and you want, you know,

1462
01:21:40.400 --> 01:21:43.800
but anyway, surrender and giving up,

1463
01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:45.880
giving up being quitting, you know,

1464
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:48.040
that's a difficult one because

1465
01:21:49.040 --> 01:21:51.640
it feels good, better that way.

1466
01:21:51.640 --> 01:21:53.080
And then, but that's selfish

1467
01:21:53.080 --> 01:21:57.160
because then you bring the spotlight onto yourself

1468
01:21:57.160 --> 01:21:59.760
and it's all about, well, I gave up

1469
01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:01.520
and then someone asked you why.

1470
01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:03.960
And then that enables you,

1471
01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:07.440
here's the microphone, talk about your issues.

1472
01:22:07.440 --> 01:22:10.720
So then it almost fuels the fire

1473
01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:14.360
of wanting to point blame on whatever,

1474
01:22:14.360 --> 01:22:16.040
not necessarily people.

1475
01:22:16.040 --> 01:22:17.880
It could be God, maybe,

1476
01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:20.000
because you're just angry with God

1477
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:23.880
and you're open, you're not dishonest

1478
01:22:23.880 --> 01:22:27.600
to not tell it straight to God one-on-one,

1479
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:29.480
but you will go beyond that to say

1480
01:22:29.480 --> 01:22:31.520
that if given the opportunity,

1481
01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:36.160
you'll just lash out anywhere just to, you know,

1482
01:22:36.160 --> 01:22:40.000
because it's pleasurable, you know, to let out like that.

1483
01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:44.000
But I try to, I avoid that anyway,

1484
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:45.880
because I think it's pointless.

1485
01:22:45.880 --> 01:22:49.960
So it's more of an internal personal challenge of,

1486
01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:53.520
but I think that's how it's always been in life

1487
01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:57.520
with any, not even having to do with the relationship

1488
01:22:57.520 --> 01:23:01.960
with people in general, just life in general,

1489
01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:04.760
you know, and maturing, the process of maturing.

1490
01:23:04.760 --> 01:23:08.080
You're always gonna have things that you struggle with.

1491
01:23:08.080 --> 01:23:11.440
And at least for me, it seems like, you know,

1492
01:23:11.440 --> 01:23:16.440
many times God has shown me a more righter way

1493
01:23:17.480 --> 01:23:22.200
that has, that my flesh doesn't want to adopt

1494
01:23:22.200 --> 01:23:24.800
and that I always have to put up a fight against.

1495
01:23:24.800 --> 01:23:27.640
But dad's always encouraged me that,

1496
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:30.960
especially in my teens with things that I've gone through,

1497
01:23:30.960 --> 01:23:35.920
that, you know, in the context of addictions or bondage

1498
01:23:35.920 --> 01:23:38.960
that you find yourself in,

1499
01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:42.800
that you just can't seem to escape from.

1500
01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:44.920
Dad gave me this encouragement once,

1501
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:49.920
that the fact that you are resisting is enough,

1502
01:23:50.720 --> 01:23:55.200
because it goes to say that the fact that you are resisting,

1503
01:23:55.200 --> 01:24:00.200
the posture that you're presenting is that you don't agree

1504
01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:03.040
with the thing that you are resisting against.

1505
01:24:04.760 --> 01:24:06.640
And that's not what you want,

1506
01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:07.880
because if that's what you want,

1507
01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:10.200
then you just let that wall down and go all in.

1508
01:24:10.200 --> 01:24:12.320
Like, you know, if it was, you know,

1509
01:24:12.320 --> 01:24:15.040
if physical touch is some aspect of it

1510
01:24:15.040 --> 01:24:16.840
and it wanted to come out in a perverted way

1511
01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:20.040
beyond just pornography or, you know, something like that,

1512
01:24:20.040 --> 01:24:22.480
it'd be like, shoot, I'm just gonna go to a bar.

1513
01:24:22.480 --> 01:24:26.800
And then, you know, you just, one thing after another,

1514
01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:29.760
just to accelerate, you know, pedal to the metal

1515
01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:32.240
to try and get to some really,

1516
01:24:33.320 --> 01:24:36.920
some end that you would probably maybe

1517
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:39.200
end up really regretting, you know,

1518
01:24:40.280 --> 01:24:43.480
and not just, you know, personally, but even before God,

1519
01:24:43.480 --> 01:24:45.800
if you value that relationship with God.

1520
01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:49.560
So, you know, resistance, but, you know, over time,

1521
01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:51.840
then time is the second piece to it is,

1522
01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:53.880
and that we all hate that, I'm sure.

1523
01:24:53.880 --> 01:24:58.880
You never see a conference on patience ever, so.

1524
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:08.240
But enough time spent resisting something builds faith in God because over time you

1525
01:25:08.240 --> 01:25:12.720
through the valleys and the hills the good ups and downs the goods and

1526
01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:19.920
bads you know that experience that that's what builds your relationship with God

1527
01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:27.040
because when in those lows as you go through them you know that's when you come to find out

1528
01:25:27.040 --> 01:25:32.480
that you can trust God in those circumstances and that he's always there with you and for you and

1529
01:25:32.480 --> 01:25:37.840
working in your benefit and that sometimes as children you know children there we go

1530
01:25:38.480 --> 01:25:43.680
that we don't know everything we don't see everything we don't understand everything

1531
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:49.600
and when daddy comes along and he's trying to guide us along with his wisdom and with his

1532
01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:55.520
knowledge of where we actually need to be you know that can be painful because we can't see

1533
01:25:55.600 --> 01:26:02.000
everything in front of us oh how many times you know what I would wish that God can you just show

1534
01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:08.560
me where you're trying to take me and the end goal so that way I can see like okay to get there

1535
01:26:08.560 --> 01:26:14.640
I have to go through a b c d and e but all of those in-betweens that's gonna be rough

1536
01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:20.800
okay I'm gonna hike a mountain without any shoes uh bare feet you know that I know that's gonna

1537
01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:26.560
be painful and you're not gonna give me any tools to not have okay so can I just stop for a second

1538
01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:32.160
I'm gonna give you a visual because I actually think there there's a different posture for

1539
01:26:32.160 --> 01:26:39.200
surrender versus giving up surrender is a little bit like hands loose like you know that I will be

1540
01:26:39.200 --> 01:26:48.800
done giving up I've dropped and I've left the game um in my heart surrender has hope giving up is

1541
01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:55.680
hopeless um but what you just described besides surrender is like trusting in God so one of this

1542
01:26:55.680 --> 01:26:59.600
I and I only did this because you guys know I'm in seminary and I had to do I had to pick a

1543
01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:05.440
spiritual formation to do all this work with this summer and I picked trust and surrender so I'm

1544
01:27:05.440 --> 01:27:11.520
really big on this and one of the chapters in this book that I read talked about how true surrender

1545
01:27:12.240 --> 01:27:17.280
instead like when we're treading water you tread water because you want to be able to see where

1546
01:27:17.280 --> 01:27:21.520
you're going and you want to control your surroundings everything that you just described

1547
01:27:21.520 --> 01:27:24.640
I want to know when this is tough and I want to know when the rapids are going to come and I want

1548
01:27:24.640 --> 01:27:29.360
to know when it's going to start to rain but the problem is we can only tread water too long we

1549
01:27:29.360 --> 01:27:34.000
could actually survive in the ocean if we just floated like if you were capsized in a boat if

1550
01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:40.080
you just floated you would actually last a long time but floating requires us to lay back and not

1551
01:27:40.080 --> 01:27:44.640
see where we're going and that's what trusting and surrendering to the holy spirit is supposed

1552
01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:50.880
to be like it's supposed to be more like a float so you don't get to see like if you really trust

1553
01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:57.600
God and you really surrender your story to him you lay back and you float and you let him take

1554
01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:03.920
you along and to activate this I actually went to one of those float pods because I've been to Israel

1555
01:28:03.920 --> 01:28:09.360
so I know what it's like to float in the salt in this float pod literally for five minutes I was

1556
01:28:09.440 --> 01:28:15.840
literally I could feel my abs working to keep myself floating in this damn thing and I find

1557
01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:25.040
it took me five minutes to go stop like and so that's what's true surrender looks like is when

1558
01:28:25.040 --> 01:28:31.760
we just stop trying but our posture is still open-handed ready to receive that is a way

1559
01:28:31.760 --> 01:28:36.800
different posture than giving up so um that's just my encouragement to you because what you

1560
01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:42.640
were describing isn't trusting God it's like hey I just need this and I get it I want it too I mean

1561
01:28:42.640 --> 01:28:49.360
I'm like no one likes a plan you guys I thought I was the most unstructured um don't need a plan

1562
01:28:49.360 --> 01:28:54.320
fly by the seat of my pants kind of person and then the last three contracts that I've had I've

1563
01:28:54.320 --> 01:28:59.280
worked with crazy entrepreneurs that just have dreams that out the yazoo and they don't know

1564
01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:03.440
how to put a plan I mean drive me batshit like just like they're just they're just so creative

1565
01:29:03.440 --> 01:29:08.720
I'm like oh my gosh I realize I do like plans I do like a process I didn't think I did but I

1566
01:29:08.720 --> 01:29:15.600
apparently do and so I don't know that's my encouragement to you Josh is just go to a salt

1567
01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:22.320
thing and just like practice that posture of just letting go and that's not giving up at all

1568
01:29:22.320 --> 01:29:27.520
that's not giving up at all but it is it is letting go of that you got to do it like that

1569
01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:32.960
you got to work the plan like the only thing Peter had to do was get out of the boat that

1570
01:29:32.960 --> 01:29:37.760
was the only part that was on him everything else when he was walking on water was just about

1571
01:29:37.760 --> 01:29:42.320
keeping his eyes on Jesus he didn't have to worry about the storm he wasn't supposed to worry about

1572
01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:49.360
anything else so whatever it is I don't know what your story is um just keep your eye on him just

1573
01:29:49.360 --> 01:29:54.880
float and he will he will direct your path you know thy word is a lamp unto a feet and a light

1574
01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:59.920
unto my path I always love that it's a lamp like a lamp only shows you about five feet in front of

1575
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:03.040
A lamp does not give you a lot of light.

1576
01:30:03.040 --> 01:30:04.640
So, I don't know.

1577
01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:06.160
Maybe what I just said has nothing to do

1578
01:30:06.160 --> 01:30:08.720
with what you were trying to say, but.

1579
01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:10.760
So I don't disagree.

1580
01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:13.840
I think you're right on with what surrender is.

1581
01:30:13.840 --> 01:30:18.440
I've had a time in my life where I've got to enjoy rest

1582
01:30:18.440 --> 01:30:19.360
in that fashion.

1583
01:30:19.360 --> 01:30:22.660
And I don't know to what degree God would only know,

1584
01:30:22.660 --> 01:30:24.880
but from what I experienced,

1585
01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:29.880
it almost seemed like I had the kind of rest

1586
01:30:29.880 --> 01:30:32.200
that most people wish that they could have

1587
01:30:32.200 --> 01:30:34.320
with God just like that.

1588
01:30:34.320 --> 01:30:39.320
And the challenge herein is when you consciously recognize

1589
01:30:40.340 --> 01:30:42.000
that that's what you need.

1590
01:30:42.000 --> 01:30:45.520
And I've experienced it so I can relate to it.

1591
01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:47.160
All the things that you've described,

1592
01:30:47.160 --> 01:30:48.480
I know what you're talking about,

1593
01:30:48.480 --> 01:30:50.200
because I've been there.

1594
01:30:50.200 --> 01:30:53.040
But like, for instance,

1595
01:30:53.040 --> 01:30:55.840
the season of your life that you're in,

1596
01:30:55.840 --> 01:30:57.200
it's different for every person,

1597
01:30:57.200 --> 01:30:59.640
but maybe you can relate to what I'm about to say,

1598
01:31:00.400 --> 01:31:01.760
is that maybe there's a season of your life

1599
01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:04.600
where you're observing of yourself

1600
01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:08.600
that the zeal for God just isn't there.

1601
01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:10.560
But you know you haven't abandoned God

1602
01:31:10.560 --> 01:31:12.680
and you know that feelings

1603
01:31:12.680 --> 01:31:15.720
are not what makes the relationship.

1604
01:31:15.720 --> 01:31:19.600
It's his love for us, it starts as a decision.

1605
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:24.400
And so sometimes I wonder if I think too much,

1606
01:31:24.400 --> 01:31:27.520
but the thing is that when I recognize these things,

1607
01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:31.600
like God, I remember that time when you just brought,

1608
01:31:31.600 --> 01:31:35.520
allowed me into a place of rest and total surrender,

1609
01:31:35.520 --> 01:31:37.280
just no attachment to anything.

1610
01:31:37.280 --> 01:31:39.720
And then not just that, but how through that,

1611
01:31:40.960 --> 01:31:44.200
through that, how you did stuff through me

1612
01:31:44.200 --> 01:31:46.120
in other people's lives, just like that.

1613
01:31:46.120 --> 01:31:48.480
And I was just like, you're just the observer,

1614
01:31:48.480 --> 01:31:50.120
you're just in the rollercoaster,

1615
01:31:50.120 --> 01:31:53.920
you keep the hands inside, you're strapped down,

1616
01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:57.280
don't do anything or you'll mess it up, you know?

1617
01:31:58.040 --> 01:31:58.880
The challenge here is that

1618
01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:01.160
when you're not in that spot anymore,

1619
01:32:02.160 --> 01:32:03.200
how do you get back?

1620
01:32:03.200 --> 01:32:05.760
And then you do, there's things you can do,

1621
01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:07.400
but nothing happens.

1622
01:32:07.400 --> 01:32:09.720
And God doesn't always answer back.

1623
01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:11.960
So you gotta, you have to accept that

1624
01:32:11.960 --> 01:32:13.680
that that's part of the journey sometimes.

1625
01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:15.760
So what I'm trying to get at

1626
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.120
is there's not a button I can just press.

1627
01:32:18.120 --> 01:32:20.280
There's no light switch I can just flip,

1628
01:32:20.280 --> 01:32:21.480
and it's like that.

1629
01:32:21.480 --> 01:32:23.920
There's no backup that I can go to

1630
01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:26.600
and hit the restore button and it, okay,

1631
01:32:26.600 --> 01:32:27.840
let's try again.

1632
01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:29.200
So that's the challenge of it.

1633
01:32:29.200 --> 01:32:33.360
But in the interim, while I'm not giving up on God

1634
01:32:33.360 --> 01:32:35.560
because I know what he's brought me through.

1635
01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:38.680
So all of the things I said was really more of a,

1636
01:32:39.680 --> 01:32:42.720
how I'm thinking, running my mind through it,

1637
01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:44.320
that no, God's been there for me.

1638
01:32:44.320 --> 01:32:47.040
And things tend to be this way.

1639
01:32:47.040 --> 01:32:49.640
I just need to stick to it and keep with the fight.

1640
01:32:50.600 --> 01:32:53.760
And when it comes to the topic of relationship,

1641
01:32:53.760 --> 01:32:55.520
that's a difficult,

1642
01:32:55.520 --> 01:32:56.800
that's where that,

1643
01:32:56.800 --> 01:33:00.360
so if we're talking about what's on the frontline

1644
01:33:00.360 --> 01:33:03.880
of warfare in your life individually,

1645
01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:05.120
in each of your life,

1646
01:33:05.120 --> 01:33:07.760
if we could say that,

1647
01:33:07.760 --> 01:33:10.880
this is where you feel most alive in terms of warfare.

1648
01:33:10.880 --> 01:33:13.240
It doesn't mean that it's gonna be a good thing,

1649
01:33:13.240 --> 01:33:15.600
but it's like, yeah, man, this is it.

1650
01:33:15.600 --> 01:33:17.040
This is, so that for me,

1651
01:33:17.040 --> 01:33:22.040
that would be that bit of surrender and giving up in like,

1652
01:33:22.040 --> 01:33:27.040
so a lot of, most of the time I listen here

1653
01:33:27.480 --> 01:33:30.480
because as strange as it may seem,

1654
01:33:30.480 --> 01:33:32.840
initially I have a little bit of discouragement

1655
01:33:32.840 --> 01:33:34.400
and then I come out great in the end

1656
01:33:34.400 --> 01:33:36.160
because I realized that, man,

1657
01:33:36.160 --> 01:33:39.120
all the issues and challenges you guys are dealing with,

1658
01:33:39.120 --> 01:33:40.960
ooh, I don't have to deal with that.

1659
01:33:40.960 --> 01:33:42.760
I can, I'm at peace that, you know,

1660
01:33:42.760 --> 01:33:46.680
I can just give it up to God because the thing is,

1661
01:33:46.680 --> 01:33:47.520
I realize-

1662
01:33:47.760 --> 01:33:50.640
Josh, don't, don't, don't,

1663
01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:55.640
don't misuse surrender as keeping yourself out of the game.

1664
01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:02.920
Because I'll tell you what, even though Peter sunk,

1665
01:34:02.920 --> 01:34:05.480
Peter's the only one that got to walk on water.

1666
01:34:06.440 --> 01:34:08.680
11 other guys did not get out of the boat.

1667
01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:12.400
So, you know, it's,

1668
01:34:12.400 --> 01:34:15.200
we can look at it as a failure that he sunk,

1669
01:34:15.200 --> 01:34:17.400
but I look at it as he was a badass.

1670
01:34:18.240 --> 01:34:19.080
Like he got out of the boat.

1671
01:34:19.080 --> 01:34:22.040
So I'm going to make sure that we,

1672
01:34:22.040 --> 01:34:24.640
I keep finding you on these calls

1673
01:34:24.640 --> 01:34:26.560
to make sure that you're not letting yourself

1674
01:34:26.560 --> 01:34:30.200
say safely in the bleachers.

1675
01:34:32.200 --> 01:34:36.560
So I, I, I, failure and there's failure

1676
01:34:36.560 --> 01:34:38.320
and then there's a,

1677
01:34:38.320 --> 01:34:40.680
I don't know what to call this thing over here,

1678
01:34:40.680 --> 01:34:43.480
but in my life, yeah, I've had a lot of failures,

1679
01:34:43.480 --> 01:34:47.000
but I, I'm thankful to God that I've had them

1680
01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:50.160
because everything that I've had that not went well,

1681
01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:51.840
let's put it that way.

1682
01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:55.360
I reflect, it gives me an opportunity to reflect on it.

1683
01:34:55.360 --> 01:34:56.240
There's really no,

1684
01:34:56.240 --> 01:34:58.440
there's no real failure in God's economy.

1685
01:34:58.440 --> 01:34:59.800
You know, God, you know, God,

1686
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:01.920
Like something out of everything.

1687
01:35:02.400 --> 01:35:05.100
Um, so you're just creating your testimony

1688
01:35:06.360 --> 01:35:08.100
and we're never late in his timing.

1689
01:35:08.320 --> 01:35:14.280
So, you know, if we don't look at it in his perspective, then we're always

1690
01:35:14.280 --> 01:35:17.940
going to look at it in a way that rubs us off or rubs us down.

1691
01:35:17.940 --> 01:35:20.560
If that makes any sense, it won't ever.

1692
01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:26.240
Someone told me this once in a past relationship that I had challenges

1693
01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:31.240
and it was that in referring to the words, not just the words that come out

1694
01:35:31.240 --> 01:35:35.600
of my mouth, but the mentality, the heart behind those words that you

1695
01:35:35.600 --> 01:35:37.640
either speak life or you speak death.

1696
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:43.080
And I've had, I've thought about it for a few years now.

1697
01:35:43.080 --> 01:35:45.400
It's like, man, that's, it's so simple.

1698
01:35:45.720 --> 01:35:47.080
You either speak life or death.

1699
01:35:47.480 --> 01:35:52.840
I, so most of the time I just shut up because I have to work through a lot of

1700
01:35:52.840 --> 01:35:55.000
thoughts on what do I really think?

1701
01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:59.440
But then I have to reel my mind back to God through those not healthy

1702
01:35:59.440 --> 01:36:04.280
thoughts to recognize, because I think too much sometimes, and I have to

1703
01:36:04.280 --> 01:36:07.760
think through so much to realize, well, you know, I've looked at it on all

1704
01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:12.680
of these angles, man, there's only one way and that's Jesus, and then it

1705
01:36:12.680 --> 01:36:14.080
brings me back and it's like, okay.

1706
01:36:14.080 --> 01:36:18.320
And then I've got these scriptures on the wall and it's like, God, you are so good.

1707
01:36:20.720 --> 01:36:22.400
Josh, I'm glad you spoke up.

1708
01:36:22.640 --> 01:36:23.040
Yeah.

1709
01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:25.840
Chris or Mike, whoever asked him a question.

1710
01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:26.800
Thank you for doing that.

1711
01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:27.440
That was good.

1712
01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:31.280
You guys, I'm going to get in trouble like 40 minutes after the hour.

1713
01:36:31.280 --> 01:36:35.440
So it's been a, oh yeah, actually, you know what?

1714
01:36:35.440 --> 01:36:38.800
Let me go ahead and just cut the recording off and then you guys can say stuff.