Right, there they are. Yes, yes, yes. What's happening, everybody?
Wow, look at them come. Nice to see all of you.
Yeah, our favorite time.
And Sherry, I think you're going to, are you able to live in the group?
Yes, I am definitely working on that.
I know there's recently been challenges with that.
If not, we can just post the replay in there.
And so welcome, everybody. Super, super excited. Not going to take a whole lot of time here.
Just super blessed to have the man, have Mr.
John Maxwell on with us. Super excited for this.
You know, I've done some I've done some calisthenics.
I've stretched out my carpal tunnels and everything.
And so I'm ready for all the notes because I always take five or six pages of notes and I'm just super excited.
So thank you for joining us, John. We're so honored.
I'm so right. Thank you. Thank you for having me again.
And all of you, I love coming to the Higdon group.
And and I developed a lesson today for you.
And I think I've got too much material, but I'll get through as much as I possibly can.
I got carried away, to be honest with you.
I sometimes when I'm writing a lesson.
I almost began to start writing a book, OK?
And so I and so I got into this one and I thought, oh, my gosh, John, you're already starting to write another book by accident here.
So so but but so I'm going to talk to you.
The title of the lesson is the five temptations of a successful organization.
And I hesitate with the word five because honestly, it may be three before the day is over.
OK, I don't know if I'll get I don't know what I'm going to get through and what I'm not going to get through.
But but but I'll say five. And if I don't get five, we'll we'll continue on the next time.
But I love this lesson. When I when I say I love this lesson, when I when I put it together, I just thought, oh, there's so much more here than what I'm putting in it.
And and I get very challenged by that when I start writing something and developing something.
And I realize that it's just not even getting the depth that it really wants to.
So anyway, let's do it, because here's we've all heard this.
We've all heard this expression that the enemy of great is good.
And that is it is so true.
And so I ask myself the question, why is that?
I mean, why is the enemy of great good?
It would almost seem like that would be an asset.
It would almost seem to me like good would be an asset to great that that you go from average to good to great.
I mean, it would almost seem like it would be a step by step on the pathway to great.
But it's not. And the reason it is not is because people get good and they stop.
So that that makes me then go back and ask, OK, they're on their way.
Why do they stop on their way? They stop growing. They stop learning.
They stop risking. They, you know, they stop making improvement and change in their life.
And what I've discovered is what happens is that, you know, prior success is a wonderful thing, but it's it's a very it's it can mess us up.
It's why Bill Gates would say success is a lousy teacher, makes people think they can't lose.
And I think people use their prior success as evidence that they've arrived.
And there are these phrases that what happens is what happens when I do that, if I do that, if I say, OK, look,
I'm already doing good and I'm getting enamored with with whatever that prior success is good. Here's what happens.
When I began to catch these words, when I began to live in the past.
And I began to live off the past.
Those are two key phrases. I live in them. In other words, I like it so well, that's where I stay.
And so I'm not growing. I'm not changing. I'm not learning. I'm not hungry.
And I live off of them. In other words, I'm saying what I you know, I'm clipping coupons from from from yesterday.
And and this this begins to be what I call an emotional mental shift that causes people to be very satisfied.
OK. In my in my I have a coaching company and in that coaching company,
I'm doing a mentoring thing with them right now that's just taken off pretty big for us.
And I call it financial wisdom because what I'm trying to do is bring people
into their lives that know more than I do for sure about money and finances.
And I'm trying to, we're trying to give them financial wisdom.
We're trying to help them be wise. Okay.
And one of the teachings I'm doing that I'm,
I know I'm going to write a book on this. I'm going to call it,
I think the 1% factor.
But one of the things I'm trying to do right now is I'm trying to help move them
from 10%, the top 10% to the top 1%.
Because when you and I get to the top 10%, we do very well. I mean,
if you're the top 10%, you make all the money you need to make,
you've got all the influence that you really need to have. I mean,
the top 10% is really kind of quote,
the mountain top of emotional satisfaction.
But what I also know is this, remember it is so true that
good is the enemy of great. So you're good. You're in that top 10%.
What I also know is the compounding from that top 10% to the
1%. I mean, we're, we're just talking 10 points now. No, I mean,
we've got 90 behind us. Don't miss this.
The compounding from 10% to 1% is much greater than the
first 90%. The, the return is,
it's not even comparative between the two.
So it was kind of like the financial wisdom thing with my coaches
and, and looking at successful organizations and say,
why do so many of them that they just plateau?
And I'm just going to just talk about it. Okay.
I'm going to talk about it from my heart.
I'm going to give you what I call business bullets. Okay. Business.
A business bullet is just a one line statement that kind of kept encapsulates
what I just said. Okay. For example, I'm all,
let me give you a business bullet already. And that is
neither you or your business ever arrives.
If, if we can just kind of be comfortable with that statement and settle on it,
it's going to do us good for this whole lesson. I there's no such thing as John
Maxwell. I, I, I never will arrive and my organizations
never will arrive. There's, there's no such thing as a destination,
a place, um, an arrival.
That is why I'm passionate about having a growth mindset instead of a goal
mindset. Now, do I think goal setting is good? Of course I do.
I'm not opposed to goal setting at all. I just know this.
It's much more limited than a growth mindset.
And when I was very young in my late twenties, 27, 28, I K I came to this.
I, I looked at a very young leader growing and I said,
am I going to set goals all of my life and try to hit those goals?
And I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
I'm going to set goals all of my life and try to hit those goals or am I going
to be committed to growth in such a way that I'll pass my goals.
I'll hit my goals and I'll keep on moving, moving.
And what happens is when you have a goal mindset,
you have an arrival mindset. You have a destination mindset.
You have a place, a time when you have a growth
mindset, you don't have that.
We, we, there's no growth. There's no, there's, there's no like,
there's just no I've arrived or I, you know, I, when people say they hit their goal,
I want to look at them and say, and is that your goal to hit your goal?
I mean, is that it? I mean, you hit your goal. Well, now what do we do?
You hit your goal to hit your goal to do now. What, what's my next goal?
Well, I, again, I'm not a goal. I'm not anti goal setting,
but I'm very pro growth mindset, not goal mindset.
And all of my life I've had a growth mindset.
And if you have a growth mindset, that business bullet, you, I mean,
you just don't arrive. Your business never arrives.
You never look at yourself and say, I got it down. I love this. I'll say,
well, you know what? I just figured it out. And I look at them and say, really,
I don't, you really figured it out. I, you're must be amazing. I've,
I've never figured it out. I've, I've, I've, you know,
I would like to sit at your feet and you teach me how you got all wise and
figured it out. I I've, I've never figured it out ever have I, now I figured out
how I was developing and how is growing, but I never got to see,
I've never got to see the finish line. I've never got to see the end zone.
I've I've never, you know, I've never, I guess I've never,
I've never gotten a home plate. And so this is huge for me because
let me say something very brutal about success.
It can make you arrogant. It can make you complacent.
Almost worse than arrogance and complacent is closed minded.
I watch people when they get successful. And all of a sudden they're there,
what are they doing? They're going around teaching everybody else how to do it.
It goes back to the statement. I say, if you're at the head of the class,
you're in the wrong class. Well,
what I'm talking about is people that they get in the head class,
because the, the objective of life of your business,
Hey,
Objective of your family life is to continue
to get better every day, to grow, to learn,
improve every day.
So you use your, here's another business bullet here.
Here we go, another one liner, here we go.
You use your success as a stepping stone, not a pedestal.
In other words, when I get it,
all I did is I took another step in the journey.
It's not like a pedestal.
It's not like I'm on top of the mountain.
Okay, this quote I'm gonna give you is 50 years old.
When I was in my middle 20s, I love this quote.
I memorized this quote and there was a period of time,
not now, but there was a period of time
that I quoted it every day for years.
The quote is just simple, sad as that day.
Sad as that day when any person
becomes absolutely satisfied with the life
that they're living, the thoughts they are thinking,
the deeds that they are doing,
until there ceases to be forever
beating at the door of their heart,
a desire to be greater and do something greater.
And it's very sad for me or for you,
for any of us to have that time in my life
where no longer do we have that passion
to keep growing and learning and developing.
So the temptations I'm gonna give you now,
there's a word that you need to carry with you
through all of these temptations.
And it's the word awareness, awareness.
Well, more than anything else, I'm just making you aware.
I'm just coming alongside of you and saying,
could be a blind spot for you.
It's been a blind spot for me, that's for sure.
Remember, everything that I'm making you aware of,
somebody made me aware of.
There's no such thing as self-awareness.
So when people say I'm a very self-aware person,
I say you're also a self-delusional person.
John Maxwell does it.
The awareness that I have about myself
is the awareness that other people have brought in my life.
They've given to me because I have blind spots.
I know I do.
And if it's, you know, a blind spot is a blind spot.
There's nothing clear about a blind spot.
Somebody says, well, I may have a few blind spots
while I'm checking them out.
No, you can't check a blind, a blind spot's a blind spot.
What part of a blind spot don't you understand?
The only way I can have a blind spot open up to me
is to have somebody kind enough to walk into my life
and say, John, you've got a blind spot here.
Let me help you with it.
And they help me with it.
Now, the moment they awaken my awareness,
the moment they start correcting my eyesight,
now that I see it, now notice this,
once you are aware of something,
your possibility of growing in awareness to it
is ridiculously positive.
But until you and I are aware,
there is no shot of growth at all.
It is impossible to be unaware and grow
in that area where you're unaware.
It's just not possible.
But the moment somebody opens the shutters
and lets a little light in,
then all of a sudden it begins to happen.
Okay, so this is kind of like an awareness thing for me
and for you.
And when I teach this lesson, understand,
I'm teaching it to me.
I'm teaching me.
I wrote a book right before I get into these temptations.
And I knew this was gonna happen.
I got too much material.
I knew this was gonna happen.
Here we go.
But I wrote a book a few years ago called No Limits.
And I love the book because the first third of the book,
I love the book because the first third.
Basically in that book,
I talk about three things that have to happen
for you to be a no limit person.
You have to have awareness.
You have to make good choices.
You gotta make, you have an awareness, good choices,
and you have to maximize your gifts.
And I love the book because the first part
is all about awareness.
And that's what this is about.
It's just helping you and I just become very aware
of where we are.
And as I give you each temptation,
there'll be a light bulb come on.
And I love that.
There'll be a light bulb come on.
So let's go.
Temptation number one
is that leaders of successful organizations,
they stop working on themselves.
This is almost always where the flatlining begins.
They just stop working on themselves.
Why do I stop working on me?
Because I think I've got it all figured out.
And so when I think I've got it all figured out,
why would I keep working on me?
I've got, see, now I have answers instead of questions.
I hope you never have your,
I hope you always have in your life more questions than answers. I hope you do.
I do. The moment I become Mr. Answer Man to you,
I'm in trouble already. Now, now, now what am I doing? I'll sit down here.
Listen to me. Here's, I got this figured out. Let me tell you,
I did this and that. And now we are now see,
because there are two very limiting, um,
traits in leadership. One is ignorance and the other is arrogance.
And I know they seem like they're worlds apart, but they're very close.
They're their, their first cousins, to be honest with you,
their first cousins, because you know,
ignorance is I just don't know what I don't know.
And arrogance means I know it all. And let me tell you, either one of them,
I don't know what I don't know. And I don't know,
and having desire to get it, which is ignorance,
or I already haven't figured out. But both of those are paralyzers as far as,
as growth is concerned and a know it all the,
the person that has that arrogant feeling and a part about them.
What happens is this. In fact, let me read this to you.
Cause I wrote this down this morning,
anyone who has stopped actively improving their business or themselves,
but is actively telling others how to improve. You got a problem.
In other words,
if I'm not actively working on me and I'm not actively working on my companies,
but I'm really active on telling you how to do it. That's arrogance. That's,
that that's a know of all. And, and,
and we all know the business never gets better till I get better.
You get better. My good friend, Jim Rohn, what did he say? He said, you know,
don't wish it were easier. Wish that you were better. I've always loved that.
Quit wishing that the business was easier to run or that life was a little bit
more simple and not as good. Don't, don't wish for easier. Wish,
wish that you were better.
And the business bullet along this kind of temptation,
there are a couple of them probably, but let me give you at least one growing
people, grow people. That's just the way it works. But when you don't grow,
your people don't grow. And when a leader plateaus,
you've heard me do the law of the lid before the 2100 laws of leadership.
When the leader plateaus, if I plateau as a leader,
what I do is I put a lid on myself,
but what is even worse because leadership is influenced. I put a lid on you.
And then why don't we do, I put a lid on the business.
And all of a sudden I'm leading everything.
I'm capping everything that isn't going where it wants to go. So, okay,
that, that, I think, I think I've done enough on that one.
Don't fall to the temptation of somehow not working on
yourself. Let me, let me just say this.
Okay.
Every day I intentionally work on John Maxwell every day.
And the reason I intentionally work on me is because I need more work than
anybody I know, to be honest with you.
And I also know that the better I improve, the better you improve.
Everybody gets better when the leader gets better. Temptation. Number two,
the, the, the, okay. I see this happen all the time.
The leaders of successful organizations stop thinking big.
They, they, they just stopped thinking big. They, and why do that? Well,
because they've got momentum and they're on a roll.
And so now instead of thinking big, they think safe.
They start, they start playing. They're not playing to win.
Now they're playing not to lose.
What they're trying to do is they're trying to hold on to what they
have. Let me just say this.
When I'm holding on to what I have, I'm in trouble.
That's already an indication that I've, I've succumbed to that temptation.
Well, I, well, I, you know, I'm holding onto that, holding on that.
Okay. Well, you know, when, if you have any momentum, don't sit on the ball,
run up the score. You just, it's, it's, it's let it, let it happen. Okay.
Um,
let me give you three strategies that'll keep you moving.
And instead of stopping the ball, what number one strategy is, is,
is, is when you're doing well, uh, go shopping.
Now let me explain, go shopping to you.
One of the greatest ways to stretch your thinking and disturb your comfort zone
is to go visit other organizations that are bigger, better, faster, smarter,
more successful than you.
What happens when we do that is we, it's very humbling. It's very humbling.
And it's also a real dose in realism. All of a sudden,
we thought we were good until we saw somebody really good. Um,
in other words, here's what I'm saying. When I say go shopping,
jump the fence.
fence. You got to get over it.
Whatever fence you've got around yourself and around your people around your
company, you just have to, you have to jump, jump your fence.
Okay. Where are you going? Where are you going right now?
That stretches you.
And who are you seeing right now that stretches you?
And what are you doing right now that stretches
you? Well, aren't those three good questions?
Where are you going? Who are you seeing?
What are you doing?
Mark and I had dinner the other night with a very successful business person.
And we've known this person for a long time and,
and he's just ridiculously
successful.
And I just enjoyed it. We had a three hour dinner. I know Mark enjoyed it.
It was so wonderful. I mean,
I listened to him talking about what he's done in building companies and
hit the expansion and, and, and very, very humble guy. He wasn't bragging at all.
He just, he just,
and how he did it and why he did it and how he knew to make the change.
And I sit there at the table and there were, there was Mark and me and,
and, and Reggie with him, with Mark and his guy and me,
there were five of us at the table. And as I'm listening to him,
I'm first thing I'm saying is I'm at the table. I'm,
I'm number five, as far as I was the bottom of the class in this room. I,
you know, dear Lord, I, you know, woo, everybody around here's bigger,
better, faster, and smarter than me.
And then I reveled in the fact that everybody was smarter than me.
Don't don't don't don't miss this.
You have to continually expose yourself to bigger, greater people to become
bigger and greater.
You do not get there by hanging with the people that are
on your level.
And I knew that intuitively as a young person. I mean, in my twenties,
I was jumping the fence and I was jumping the fence because I looked at the
people that I was around and I said, they're really good people,
but they cannot get to the top.
They're really good people, but they cannot take me where I've got to go find
people, bigger, faster, smarter.
And I wish I could describe the feeling I
have. I purposely, I do this all the time. I'm, I'm going,
I'm just two weeks away from a, a major,
major round table of 150 people that many are billionaires.
They're smarter, bigger, faster than me. I'm going to help. I'm going to,
I'm going to be a part of it. I'm going to be teaching it. And, but,
but the teaching isn't what thrills me.
What thrills me is the interaction I'm going to have around the dinner table and
asking the questions and hanging around. I re I remember, okay.
I remember about 10 years ago, I, one night Margaret and I were having our
conversation. I said, Margaret, I said, I've got to get stretched a little bit
more right now. I'm, I just have to get stretched. And I remember I was invited.
I don't know how they got me to invite me,
but I was invited to take a cruise with, with, with,
with a small ship of people, about probably about a hundred people.
And two thirds of them were billionaires. They were all, I w I can tell you,
I was at the bottom of the class. And I said, I just got to go meet him.
I got to find out who they are. I got to ask questions.
And I was gone for eight days with them. And I asked them questions and I mean,
I I'd go to my cabin. I'm writing pages of notes.
I developed relationships out of that that are huge relationships today in my
life. In fact, I, I, I, I wish I had,
I wish I had 30 minutes to talk about the return. You see,
when you don't get around bigger people, you miss the return.
I don't know what you're looking for, but the return is around the bigger people.
The regurgitating is around the people you're around right now.
The return is you have got to expose yourself to better thinking,
to better ideas, to better strategy. And let me just say this,
you know, you're on your way. When you become eager to be with them,
you don't even know them. When I went on that cruise out of a hundred people,
I think I knew maybe two of those people. I didn't know anybody, man.
I just ask questions and serve them. And by the time those eight days were over,
I mean, we, I, whoa, we were cooking. We were, I mean,
we were just cooking big time now. Okay. I I've, I've, I've hit that enough,
but I I'm just saying you got to go shopping.
You got to go jump the fence.
The second thing you need to do is you need to stir up what I call
inspirational, healthy dissatisfaction.
You got to.
You've got to stir it up.
And I'm not talking about never being pleased with yourself
or being always unhappy with yourself.
And I'm not talking about beating yourself up.
I'm not talking about any of that stuff.
But I am talking about a creative awareness in your life
that you can do better than you're doing
and that you can be bigger than you are.
And you can't get that again
unless you're around bigger, better people.
I'm telling you, you hang around the people
you hang around with and after a while,
you'll think you're smart.
But the moment that I let go of that,
that I said, no, I've got to go, I got to go find them.
I got to go seek them out.
And again, it goes back, Mark, to you in my discussion,
I don't know, in Kuwait several years ago,
one night at dinner when you said, John,
I look at you and you can celebrate
and then be dissatisfied in almost a moment.
You just celebrate a victory and then you're on,
okay, well, that was good.
Are we all happy?
High five, okay, now, oh, let's go.
And that's when I described you the difference
between best and better.
Best is right now I'm doing my best to teach this lesson.
And I'm giving you 100%, I always give you 100%.
I wouldn't even show up if I couldn't give you 100%.
In fact, let me tell you something.
If you're not giving somebody 100%
in anything that you're doing with them,
can I explain something to you?
Don't show up.
Why would you not give 100% to a person that you value
in your life?
So I'm giving you 100%, so it's my best,
but let me tell you something.
I told you at the beginning of the lessons way too long,
got too much material in it, I know I do.
So it's my best for the moment, but guess what?
Tomorrow, Aaron and I'll be working on this lesson.
We'll be downside, we'll be tweaking this lesson.
Okay, my best, which is my best, the ceiling today,
tomorrow becomes my floor.
I stand on best to get better.
So what is my ceiling right now will be my floor tomorrow.
And that's the way I treat everything in life.
Everything, okay, well, good man, I reached for,
I think I touched the ceiling, floor today,
back at it again.
And then I just say one more quick thing.
It's just continue to set goals that do stretch your team.
And again, we've talked about goals and growth
probably enough.
I don't think, well, let me just give you one story,
just one quick story.
Most of you probably know that I was a pastor for 25 years.
And when I was 28,
I had the 10th largest church in America.
In fact, I had two 10th largest churches.
I had one in Ohio and then I left it.
I went to one in San Diego that wasn't near the 10th.
It had plateaued for 14 years.
And I sat down with my staff and I had a marker board
and I drew a line with that marker.
And I put 1,000 because the church was averaging back then.
We're talking about 1970, eight, nine, 80.
It was averaging 1,000 people.
And I looked at my team and I said,
let me explain something to you.
Here's what I know about you as a staff.
You have the ability to connect with,
reach and involve 1,000 people.
That's what I know.
Then I took my marker and I drew a dotted line above that.
And I put 2,000.
And between the dotted line and the straight line,
I put a big question mark.
I said, the question is,
do you have the ability to grow this organization to 2,000?
And now they're in this discussion.
Do we have the ability?
So I let them discuss.
I just, I love to just let them discuss for,
I don't know, not long, eight, 10 minutes.
What do you think?
And then when they all got that,
I said, let me explain it to you.
You don't.
Because if you did, you'd already have 2,000.
Let me explain to you.
You already got what you can do.
There's no mystery to this at all.
You already got what you can do.
And if you want to got more,
you got to know how to do more, better.
So I looked at him.
I said, the way you run everything here,
you're 1,000, put 1,000 on your head.
That's what you are.
Now, can I help you become aware,
back to this awareness of how to get to 2,000?
What can we do, change, that'll help you get to 2,000?
And it was a life-changing discussion.
And then I said to them,
now let me explain something to you.
I'm gonna do my best to help you become aware
and to help you change in a positive way.
Change, get better, improve.
Okay, change, improve.
But then I said, here's the way it works.
If I can't change you, then I'm gonna change you.
Which means after next year, I'm gonna fire you.
You won't be on the team anymore.
But I want to change, and then I would,
I smile and say, I want to change you.
I really want to change you because I don't want to really want to change you,
but I'm going to do one of the two.
I'm going to either change you or I'm going to change you.
And it became the, it became kind of the talk around the staff. He, you know,
he's either going to change us or he's going to change us. And,
and they would laugh and I'd laugh too. And I'd look at him and say, and yes,
I will do one of those two things. And, and, and, you know, and for some,
they grew a little bit and they hung in a little bit longer with me.
And for some, they, I changed them. Now this is huge.
We're talking about when you're really good and you're really plateaued.
In fact, the founder of the, of that congregation told me, he said,
he said, we don't even go to other or other churches because he said,
we have it. We have, we've got it down.
And I looked at him and I thought you got nothing down here.
You've been flat for 14 years. All you got is down as Texas plateau.
That's all you got down. You, you got nothing down. And I got to get, we got it.
We, we, we got to jump the fence.
Okay. So the thinking has to change. Okay. Um,
here's a business bullet
grow as conditions permit.
And if the conditions don't permit, create new conditions.
Oh, I wish I had time to talk about that. You know, if, if whatever's it,
the conditions of your company right now,
just keep growing as conditions permit. But if the condition conditions don't
permit, in other words, something's not the environment,
the culture's not right. That then, then create and change, you know,
Marcus Buck, Buckingham, what he do. He says, late leaders break through rules.
They break through. They make things happen. Okay. Okay. Let me give you one more.
I think I, well, let me see. It's one 35. Shoot.
Oh, Ray, what do you want me to do, buddy?
Do you want me to give you one more or do you want me to stop? Cause,
and let them ask questions when it's your call. I'm not going to get,
I'm not going to get through the lesson. That's for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, I, I've gotten a ton of value so far.
Um, I'm, I'm thinking we go into questions, but what,
what do you guys, you know, drop a comment in there,
but while they're responding, um,
I forgot to ask you and I would love to ask you right now,
is it okay if you say a prayer for us, for our wisdom and growth? And just,
I just always appreciate you when I, when I get a chance to have,
I'm sorry, I would be glad. Yeah. No, I didn't remind you. In fact,
you know what Ray, what, you know,
one of the people ask me sometimes I'll say,
what is the prayer that you pray the most?
And the prayer that I pray the most is out of James. If any person lacks wisdom,
there you go. Let him ask God who gives it to him.
Do you know that that speaks a lot to who I am done it right there.
That tells you how dumb I am and that that's the number one prayer I have in my
life is for wisdom, but yes, I will. And by the way,
it's a promise that what happens is a promise that God gives us wisdom.
We don't have, which is, which I'm incredibly vitally interested. Father,
thank you for the group here. Thank you for Ray's leadership. My gosh,
I love the fact that you would allow Mark and Aaron and myself to be
part of the family and just, you know,
come alongside and do our best to help and lift.
And we're talking about things father that are bigger than us.
We're talking about leadership.
Really good at what we do and we grow.
We influence a lot more people and help so many people that we just aren't able
to help today. So our prayer is not a selfish prayer,
but it is a leadership prayer. Extend our influence,
increase our wisdom,
help us to find favor and give us the,
um,
courage. That's a good word. Give us the courage to go in areas.
We've never gone so that we can see things we've never seen.
So we can do things we've never done because we learned things that we had
never learned. That's a big prayer, but you're a big God.
And we agree right now together that this is our prayer for this day and for
this lesson in your name. Amen. Amen. Amen.
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm getting, I selfishly wanted you to keep going. Uh,
and it looks like most people want you to keep going to, so
I could do that. Why don't we go on, please. Okay, good. Let me go to,
let me go to temptation number three and I, this, I, then I, I'll, I'll prompt.
I just have to stop because I, or I won't give you any Q and a time.
Temptation three is leaders of successful organizations.
Stop leading from the front. In other words,
they stop being the example of what they want their.
people to be. That's what I say. They stop leading from the front.
They no longer are a visual example. And why do they do that?
Because, well, they, because they say, I don't have to do this anymore.
My gosh. I mean, how,
how many years do I have to lead from the front before I can, I can go to go do
something. You know, they're looking for a shortcut. They're looking for easier.
And let me just say this, the, the, the business,
the business bullet here is that the leader always has to be the
example. What did Jesus say? Follow others.
He said, follow me, watch me, see how I do it.
Learn from me, walk with me.
Jesus looked at these disciples and he just said, let me explain something to you.
You don't know how to do this, but don't worry.
I'm going to show you how to do this.
I can still remember Ray when my, my,
when my congregation, I was 27, 28. My, when I cracked the top 10,
and by the way, in a town of 25,000 people,
and I had 3000 people in my church, I had over 10% of the population,
my church. And I, and I could remember,
I could remember the temptation to switch from people work to paperwork.
Now paperwork has to be done, but can I tell you something?
Almost all paperwork can be done by support staff.
Very little paperwork needs to be done.
A lot of thinking work has to be done by the leader, but not the paperwork.
But I loved doing some of that paper. And I, and I, and, and, and, but,
but how I, how did I build that congregation? How did I build that team?
Because they saw me, they watched me. I was in front of them.
I trained everybody because I was small. So somebody said,
did you have a good training program? I had a great training program.
I was the training program and I taught them everything that I knew.
I taught them how to do it. I took them with me. I spent time.
I literally, because it was a volunteer organization, I had a person,
a different person every morning, five days a week,
a different person every afternoon, five days a week,
and a different person every evening, five days a week.
And I was training 15 people every week. And in the afternoon, I say, Hey,
I'm going to go do this. Come with me. Cause I, I worked on this principle,
never do work alone in my world. Never do ministry alone. Why,
why would I do it alone? When I can have somebody beside me show and tell people,
do what people see. Now, let me just say this. When people say,
how did you become a rainmaker? How'd you build companies? It's very simple.
I did it. And I took people with me and taught them how to do it. That's why,
when, when, when, when leaders don't have other leaders,
I always look and say, have you not developed any of those leaders?
Are you just expecting them to lead without you hanging with them? And,
and, or as Mark would talk about the, the, the, the, the power of proximity,
but there's a great temptation to stop the people work,
which is being in front of them and being an example and being with them. It's,
it's Aaron. It's, uh, it's another lesson that you, that you,
that we did a while back called the, uh, the leaders leadership dance,
the leadership dance, how you go before them with them, behind them, above them,
beneath them. It's a dance you keep moving, but, but,
but the common denominator in the leadership dances, the leader's dancing.
He's dancing. She's dancing. It's not like the leader says, tired of dancing.
Let the other people dance. Like, Hey, let me watch my people dance. No, no, no.
And, and, and the temptation is that when we begin to succeed,
we withdraw or we pull back from that people work.
And we kind of go in the back room and we start to do,
we start to do paperwork. Uh,
you know, next. Okay. Aaron, you just had to remind me.
Maybe next time I'm going to pick up there because here's where I'm getting,
going right now. I'm, I'm,
I'm going into nine things that what me, what it means to, to, to live,
to be upfront with people. And there's nine.
And I think I'm just not going to be able to pull that one off.
So maybe we can have a part one and a part two, if it's okay with you, Ray,
and I'll come back in and, and underline this just to just let me remind.
Okay. Because there's nine and they're good.
They're practical stuff that I need to, to give and then illustrate just a
moment. So anyway, but, so you got three of the five,
or you got really two and a half of the five is what you got.
And that's about what I figured when I did the lesson again,
I'm working on a lesson, honestly. And I finished, I said, John,
you're supposed to be writing a lesson. You're writing a book. I mean,
I'm looking at this thing and I'm sitting there. I'm saying, all right,
give me a little time. I'll go write this sucker. Okay. So anyway,
hope it helped you. And, and I see Mark's with us. Of course,
Aaron's been with us and, and good to see you, Mark.
I know you had a hectic, hectic morning and of course, Ray with us. So who,
can we do maybe 15 minutes of Q and A?
Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, raise do the digital.
Hand raise if you have a question you want to ask I knew Mary would be on it. She's she's she's quick
Um real real quick, um, you know what let's see is there anything
Um the other day I was talking with um a guy that i'm i'm discipling, uh in the bible and he is
I can probably take all the wealthy people I know
and have met
Put them together and he has more than them
And he said something the other day. He said ray
So often i'll see someone that they hold on to the millions and completely miss the billions
And and that's you know what you were talking about you you said
you know you get in this place of
You know, you're you're no longer thinking big you're worried about, you know, keeping what you got and
You know
Powerful powerful lesson
And I got a couple other takeaways, but we'll get we'll get to that after uh after our time with you
and so
Let's you know what?
Uh, mary, I know you get a question in uh, every time we have john and I love you
I think you've been spending some time with john, too. I want to make sure
Um, I want to get some people that maybe haven't had a question with with john if that's okay
Uh, and so let's go to carol carol. What is your question?
Well, I just had a clarification on um, so john was talking about all the temptations and then he started into the
three strategies to keep the ball
Moving and he went go shopping
Stir up inspirational healthy dissatisfaction, but he never I don't think he got to the third one. I'm dying jump the fence
What? Yeah, I did I did I did I jumped that number number three good. I I'm sorry for that
That's all right didn't aim to do it
Didn't aim to do it. That's continue
to set goals that stretch your team
And I I didn't say that but that's in other words and but I gave the illustration when I was in san diego
Of the 1000 2000, you know this this, you know, either you know, either you change or i'll change you type of thing
So yeah, that was number three
Perfect. Thank you so much. Yeah, you're certainly welcome
Great. Thank you. Uh, lisa
Hey, thank you
This is a unique question. Maybe it's not my question to you. John is when you meet with people that are bigger
Better and smarter than you what kind of questions do you ask them?
A lot of times I seem to get a little bit intimidated and I get quiet. So i'm like, okay
they're no different than me, but
What questions do you act though ask those types of people?
First of all, that's exactly what happened to me the first time
when I got it when I when I got into the high clover and I
I was the low clover, you know
and and honestly
It was an event called exchange and I didn't ask a question
There were several people and not just me, but there were maybe a hundred people at this conference
And and I I never asked my question and on the way home
I had a lot of self-talk and and I asked why why john? Why did you not ask that?
Well, you were intimidated. Maybe the question you asked wasn't a very good question
And and on the way home I was driving
I I had a self self-talk of which I said i'm never gonna let happen this this will never happen again to me
I I may ask a question everybody in the room looks and says that man is just not a very smart man
But I am going to ask the I am going to ask the questions and so I became committed to that
And and that was a that was a kind of little pivot for me as a I mean
I'm a very young leader at at that time
But uh when I when I talk about my learning lunches, which I have every month
I have learning lunches every month and I ask seven questions, but I thought i'd given you the seven questions in the past
I believe I did if you go back to those seven questions. Those are my questions right there. They they work
And and and you don't have to have a lot of questions. Here's what I know about this
I'm, i'm mentoring mark and teaching him this right now
You want to have a few really good questions basic questions?
And when you ask the question
Their answer will open up a better question
it's almost like
Once you learn how to ask good questions and are comfortable with it
The conversation carries the level of questions
And I found that to be very true the conversation cover it carries the when the conversation gets really good and it's really stretchy
Those questions began to appear in your mind to you know to ask more even more stretchy questions, but
Start with the seven at the lunch, okay
Got it. And thank you Aaron for posting them
Yeah, so Aaron Aaron posted the seven questions in the comments, which is just pure gold. Thank you Aaron
And one thing i'll tell you anytime we teach scripts
Or you learn what to say or what to ask?
Don't treat this as
Okay
Okay, you know, what's the greatest lesson you ever learned? Okay, great. What are you learning
right now? Okay, okay, great. Like, don't, you know, like, listen. And I find that anytime I
teach scripts, I have to teach, okay, you got to listen too. It's not just getting through these,
you know, this checklist of things. It's like, pay attention. Because we see people make a mistake
with scripts all the time. The point is to listen to what they say. Let's go to Brian.
Hey, John, how you doing? Good, Brian.
Quick question for you. My wife and I have been doing marriage ministry and helping with events
for about 16 years. And the challenge we're having now, because we broke away from the
organization, due to the fact they took God out of their mission statements and things,
which I didn't appreciate, but we decided to go on our own. And we were focusing more on helping
couples apply what they know to do versus just learn it. Because you can learn a lot of things,
it's great to know it. But I look at you as an educated idiot, if you don't actually apply what
you know to do, because transformation comes from application or through application. And so I'm
trying to figure out, and it's kind of been stumping me, leaders lead by example, we've been,
you know, investing in our marriage two to three events ourselves, you know, every year and leading
and hosting small groups. And I'm trying to figure out how do I get other couples to hunger for that
growth and to want to change? They seem like they're happy with the average or being, you know,
as good as everybody else at church or wherever else, or, you know, workplace, etc. They don't
really want to work on their marriage. And I guess it's uncomfortable, but how do you get them to see
that they could be so much better? Well, I think that's a problem every leader faces, you know.
It's what I call upfront conversations. You need to have upfront expectations with your conferences.
And that the only way that you improve is to practice. Information never improved anybody.
Practice improves people. And so what you need to do is you need to build your seminar
around practices that they need to practice. And be a lot less informational loaded,
and be a lot more application loaded for them. And what will happen is you'll separate your
players from pretenders real quick. Because pretenders, again, they just want a conference,
and you know, what time do we eat? And the players, of course, they're willing to put
effort and skin in the game. But I think it's how you approach the way you do your conference.
And if you do it with practices, I think you'll come out a lot better. You'll begin to separate
the wheat from the chaff. That's a biblical phrase. Yeah, and that's what we're doing in
our events, but I'm trying to figure out how to get them to even come to an event because they
don't even have an interest. They're like, well, we're doing okay. We've been married 10 years.
We're doing okay, but they're struggling. They keep coming to us. We need help, but they don't
want to go to anything because they don't want the help. Well, it's because I think they want
counseling more than equipping. Okay. Again, counseling is working on the weaknesses of
people. Equipping is working on the strengths of people and what they can do in practice.
So I think that you need to set up your promotion, set up your little seminar, everything
based upon equipping and practice, not conversation or information. Okay.
Very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. And Brian, I'll just add one thing. I'll expand on this after our time here with John,
but like, you know, to me, it's the, what was it called? When Harry met Sally effect,
I'll have what she's having. Okay. If you know what I'm talking about, and that is do people
around you marvel at how wonderful your marriage is? Because to me, that's like, do you have people
in your neighborhood, in your communities that are saying, dude, how do you guys have such an
incredible marriage? So like being the light that makes people hungry for that. Like I, you know,
I have, you know, people are asking me, dude, what are you doing differently? You seem happier. You
seem like you're whatever. And, and so I just, you know, the application of ourselves, let us,
let us be challenged that wherever we go, they see the honoring of your wife, the respecting of the
husband, the loving of the, you know, I just want to throw that out there just to, just to challenge
you. Right. It just like, you know, John mentioned Jim Rohn, don't wish for things to be easier,
wish for you to be better. And so just want to throw that out, but I'll expand more on that.
If you're okay with that. Good. Very good. Mary, did we lose you? You hung in there?
Tina go first. I'm good. I'm good. Okay. Tina, what's up?
Hi. So one of the areas that I struggle is empathy because there's nothing, there's never
been anything easy in my life. Everything has been hard and I've had to overcome.
since I was a child and so what books would you recommend that I read to help me in that area
because I know it's needed as I grow in leadership and especially as my organization grows I don't
want to always have the attitude life sucks work harder like you know so what would you recommend
yeah well the classic book is Scott Peck's book the road less traveled that's if you've not read
that book all of you need to get it it's it's a it's probably the book's probably written 35 40
years ago but his opening sentence is life is difficult and and I love it and and his thesis
in the first paragraph of the book you almost have the book you need the book because he has
great examples but the first paragraph I've never seen anybody summarize a book as well as Scott
Peck did in the first paragraph of of the road less travel and he basically says I'm paraphrasing
obviously life is difficult at the moment that you embrace that life is difficult it no longer
becomes difficult but then he goes on to say but if you reject that idea and think life should be
easy it will increasingly be difficult the longer that you live and it's a great uh mindset
statement that uh you know that when people are talking about how challenging it is or difficult
or that you know the valley's dark or the mountain's steep I look at them and say and I had
no idea that it was supposed to I and you know unless you go to Disneyland for a day where else
is it going to be that way it that's the way life is but the moment you embrace it now it's instead
of a of a obstacle becomes a challenge to you so anyway the Scott Peck's book the road less travel
be a great book for you right all right David what's happening man
hey Ray hey John uh thank you hello it's uh thank you for being here today okay thank you
uh a question I have is uh as a as a leader we want to improve ourselves continually
uh I found myself getting involved in several different uh self-development things and sometimes
I get a little overwhelmed as a leader how do we take those things that we're wanting to improve
ourselves with and say we've got so many to do and I understand that you know prioritize them
but how how do how could I best manage my time better to to to do all the things that I've
invested in and continue to be a good leader well you probably are scattered a little too thin
probably for you less is more uh you've heard me do the uh clear the five things I focus on in
personal growth which is communication leadership equipping attitude and relationships plus my faith
those are my six arenas that I specialize in that I work on that I decided in my 20s to not only
learn from but to write my books off of so the the the challenge is you can't grow in every area
and you don't even want to grow in every area I don't know if I've used this illustration with
you or not but if we were playing a game of trivia right now all of you would beat me I would be at
the bottom of the class why I don't know trivia why don't I know trivia because it's trivia
what part of that don't you understand trivia has never added one thing to your life as far
as development growth or money nothing nobody has ever said because I know how many stars are
in the sky it's helped me become highly successful in life so trivia is trivia and it's I don't mind
you loving trivia but if you spend your life on trivia you don't get to spend your life
on on the important things of life I mean you just have to look at yourself and ask yourself
very simple question what am I going to read I can't read everything what am I going to experience
can't experience everything who what am I going to think on I can't think on everything and you
just reduce it down my life is extremely simple in growth but I had to get rid of all those other
distractions I use those other distractions for release or entertainment you know go go go watch
a good movie or you know nothing nothing wrong with doing something like that that just relaxes
you that I'm not saying that but I'm saying for your personal growth agenda stay in stay in these
areas that are going to give you the return and and stay away from the other areas it doesn't
bother me to be not well-rounded because I'm not well-rounded in fact when I look at well-rounded
people I say yeah you're well-rounded and do you want me to buy you what do you want me to do now
with you it's just like my brother one time when they looked at Larry and he was talking about risk
taking and they didn't want to take any risk and they looked at him he said well what happens if I
everything. Larry said, well, or he looked at him and said, Larry, what happens if you lose
everything? And Larry looked at him and said, well, then I'll just live like you. You know what
I mean? It's not a problem. And it's, you know, once you prioritize yourself and understand what
you're going to work on, stay right there, just less, less is more, less is more. Yeah. Perfect.
Thank you. Yeah. I recently discovered that Benjamin Franklin is often misquoted
when it comes to being a good communicator. He said, be a Jack of all trades, a master of one,
not a master of none. And most people miscommunicate that they say master of none,
and it's kind of confusing. So be a master of one. What do you want to be the master of?
And no other things, but focus on one. I got my list off of Benjamin Franklin, by the way,
when I started prioritizing what I would do. He was such a wise person. He's a great inventor.
But when I was in college, I studied his life and I got Benjamin Franklin reduced everything down to
the things that he could work on every day. And that gave me the idea of that was my first seed
in intentional growth and development. Yeah. Daily bread. I love it. I love it. Crystal.
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. When it comes to the Bible verses about do not
rely on your own understanding, I am trying to understand the difference of human intuition
versus being guided by the Holy Spirit and just how to teach that to my children.
Yeah, that's a great purse. Not to rely on your own intuition. I've been right out of my
understanding a lot of times and didn't do too well, to be honest with you. Now let me marry
them. They're not supposed to be divorced. It's not either or. It's not like I have this incredibly
godly wisdom and therefore I chuck my earthly wisdom because it's for, you know, wood, hay,
and stubble. It isn't that. Let me just explain to you. This is this is how it works. And this
is how it connects. And this is how you can relate it to your children. It's because it's a great
question you're asking. Once you've received heavenly wisdom, it leads to earthly understanding.
The key is obedience. When God begins to show you a higher way, don't resist it. Learn it.
That higher way that he shows you translates into a better way in living your life.
It all, let me say, all of God's principles turn into practicalities. Everything that he gives you
that's above you, you can utilize and use. But you've got to get what he has so that you can
engage in and enhance what you have. So he'll take heavenly wisdom and it'll give you better
earthly wisdom than you've ever had before because you have the addition of what he knows because
his ways are higher. So you teach your children that you seek first his kingdom and all of his
righteousness and all the things about God that he is the one you seek. As you seek him,
he will give you obedience lessons. Follow him in obedience and that's where the understanding
comes in. When you understand it, now you can use it and practice it and apply it. And that's how
heavenly wisdom through obedience becomes understanding, which becomes practicality,
things that you can do, which you can pass on to your children. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, it does. And when you say seek him, what would you say would be the most practical
way of saying that to a child? Is there an action around that? Like I know prayer and
guidance and asking, is there just like a simple way of explaining?
Yes, there is. What you do is in the next month in your prayer time and seeking wisdom from God,
when you feel that he gives you wisdom, which he does, correct? There are times when you say,
I think God just connected with me. Are you with me there?
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Stay right with me. When that happens, you walk in obedience to that.
And walking in obedience to that, you'll get a result from it. That's what you pass on your
children. Last week when I was talking to God, I sensed that he gave this to me. Here's what I did.
I practiced it. Here's what I received. That's also available to you. Because if our earthly father,
he knows how to give good gifts to his children, how much more will our heavenly father give good
gifts to those who ask him?
Does that make, so just take, you teach your children
out of your practice and experience yourself.
Does that make sense to you?
It does, yeah, that's beautiful, thank you so much.
Oh, it'll work, trust me.
You'll be a good model and mama to follow, trust me.
Amen, amen.
John, thank you so much, appreciate you so very much.
Gang, if you're able to stay on,
I have a few points that I'll share,
but we just get so much wisdom from you, John.
Super appreciate you, man.
Yeah, and Mark, I was, before you were able to get on,
I was talking with Ray and he would like to connect
with you.
He did, he shot me a text.
Thank you.
Okay, so you already got that.
Yes, thank you, John.
Thank you, John.
Then we're done, blessings on all of you.
I hope you enjoyed it and let's keep growing together.
Yes, yes, yes, awesome, thank you, John.
John, love you.
So if you're able, stick around.
I got seven quick points for you.
I'm gonna go kind of backwards and Crystal's question,
my, Crystal's still on.
Well, it'd be good for you guys to hear anyway.
Oh, she's on, okay.
So here's, I love what he said.
I agree with everything that he said.
The one thing I'll add is your logic, your logic,
my logic, our logic will keep us safe, okay?
Obedience is not safe.
People have a calling and they may have a calling
for 20 years because they're relying
on their own understanding, relying on their own logic.
Obedience is not logical.
When he had me do an altar call at a business meeting,
that is not, that's not logical, it makes no sense.
When he had me go to Ohio for a podcast
and got four views, that made no sense.
When he had me at a time where, you know,
things were really, really wild financially
and had me donate a very large amount of money,
that made no sense.
So obedience doesn't make sense.
Your logic will fight obedience.
You do not wanna share that vulnerable story.
You do not wanna share that thing you've never told anyone
because you wanna be safe.
So logic will keep you safe.
Obedience will make you grow.
And in understanding that,
and this will come up in other points here too,
is the biggest, I had such a big breakthrough Monday morning
of just really understand the death of the old man,
the death of the old person, okay?
We often turn to that body in the grave
and try to coach it and mentor it and say,
why can't you be better and what's wrong with you?
And we turn to that, it's like digging in the grave,
pulling someone up and said,
come on, get motivated already.
And we are a new creation.
So what God wants you to do
is he wants you to step into that new creation
because you have Christ inside of you and with you.
And so he wants you to step into the kingdom
and stepping into the kingdom
is you're no longer beating yourself up.
You're no longer focused on what you did wrong
or what you blew.
You're looking at everything as how can I grow?
How can I get better?
And so I would, and I really believe,
I had two different, it was pretty wild, two weeks ago,
I connected with just a mighty man of God
has done all kinds of wild stuff.
And he's like, hey, I prayed about you, Ray.
And man, God's got you on a fast track
and it's because of your obedience.
And I'm like, oh, cool, great, that's cool.
Next day, I connected with another super mighty man of God.
I mean, these guys, both of them
have been in front of millions of people.
He says, Ray, I prayed for you.
And man, you're really on the fast track.
God's got you on, like literally word for word,
I don't know that they know each other.
And so the velocity of your growth
does have to do with the velocity of your obedience.
So I wouldn't brag so much
about God's really been nudging me
to do this thing for years now.
I wouldn't brag about that
because you can take a calling that could be yours
and stretch it out to one years
because you just focus on the old person, the dead person.
For help around that, if you struggle with that concept,
I think it's, I wanna say 2 Corinthians 5, 17 and 19.
I don't know that off the top of my head, I don't think.
I'll get it to, oh no, that is it.
Okay, there you go.
2 Corinthians 5, 17, 19.
And so, and we don't have crystal,
we don't have to overcomplicate.
it for the kids, they already get it. Just ask God your question. And they will, and they'll
get an answer because they won't overthink it. And give them examples like John said,
right? You know what? I prayed on this, and I, of course, took six months to get the answer.
You'll get it tonight. And so kids are just naturally better at this sort of thing because
they just don't overcomplicate it. They don't overthink or anything. But certainly give examples
I like that. Tina Joy, I don't know if she's still on, but I think it'll help people whether
she's on or not. So when you, whatever is repeated in your life, is God knocking on your heart
to try to improve you. And the lesson is repeated until it's learned. Okay? And so if you're
noticing all these schmuckaroos that aren't doing the work, and all these people that aren't showing
up very powerfully, there's a reason for that pattern. And that pattern is to grow you, to make
that exact part of you more Christ-like. And so instead of frustration, instead of like,
dang it, I wish these people would step it up. I have to question my response because my response
isn't of Christ if it's repeated. Once it becomes of Christ, the lesson goes, you got the lesson,
on to the next lesson, which there will be more lessons. And so love, love is what changes
everything. Love is what is like the Old Testament call heaping hot coals on their head.
So praying for your enemies, blessing those who curse you, blessing those who want to harm you.
That is what changes people. And so know that all of us are wired, our old person is wired to beat
ourselves up. So the person not doing enough, they're beating themselves up too, just like we
are. And so loving them, edifying them, praising them, making it okay that they haven't done
anything. Number one, that will keep them around forever. They won't leave. People don't leave a
relationship where they're left. They just don't. And number two, it will actually unlock new
thoughts with them. Maybe I'm not so bad. Maybe I'm not so terrible. And man, how do I become
like that? How do I not be frustrated with my people that aren't doing anything? Brian, to
your question, I mentioned a little bit, but one of my buddies, he is so good at honoring his wife.
It is like nothing I've ever seen. I mean, if I'm around him, I mean, I think I do a decent job
until I met him. And I'm like, whoa, this is awesome. And I just want to sit around. I'm like,
hey, how do you think? I've never seen anyone do this ever. But if we're at a restaurant
and his wife leaves the table, as she's coming back, he'll stand up and he'll wait for her to
be seated. I've never seen anyone do that ever. And so I'm like, wait, what's happening? I've
never seen it. And that's one silly example of so many different things that he does to honor
his wife. Just a concept. How lucky am I? How lucky am I that she is my wife? He will say it
in front of people. Now, what's the tendency? You'll find most people have the tendency to kind
of rib their spouse in front of others. Yeah, he's kind of a knucklehead. You know what I mean? Just
kind of rib him in front of other people. And that's not very powerful. But how can I show up
so that every restaurant I go into, every meeting I go into, every couple that we hang out with,
they're like, bro, how do you guys have such a great marriage? And not just faking the funk,
not just putting on the good show, but like, you know, really, how do we show up so people?
So my answer is, oh, you might consider attending my course. So now we become the course versus I
got to promote this course because no one wants it. You see what I mean? And so that's hopefully
helpful. I did like how as soon as I had him pray, he shifted to a story about Jesus. I like that.
Got to get him to pray earlier. I did like that.
I mean, he's, you got to realize, I mean, a lot of, a lot of his groups, you know, he's in very secular territory.
I talked about my buddy and the whole holding on to millions to skip the billions. And that is, that is a, it is such a big deal being so worried about losing what you got.
And, and that's why I posted that that phrase of those who put their, their hand to the plow and look back aren't a fit for the kingdom of God.
That's not heaven. That has nothing to do with salvation. The kingdom of God is accessible here on earth and how you think and how you focus.
Are you focused on lack, limitation, worry, and all of those things, or are you focused on, and he's with me.
And he's with me. He's with me wherever I go. His presence is with me wherever I go. I am saved. I am new. I am cherish. I'm beloved. I'm a, I'm chosen.
He chose me before the world was formed. He counted the numbers on my head. He can't take his eye off me, man.
Right. It's, it's you stepping into that. And the more, the more that you get there, the more you'll catch yourself when you're out of the kingdom.
You'll catch it. You're like, I don't like that.
When I understood that and, and I'm still, I'm still process of learning haven't arrived in literally any way.
But when I just started to understand that I noticed certain pain in my body went away.
I noticed that all of a sudden, these little favor, all of a sudden, two company owners reach out to me. All of a sudden, this check comes in unexpectedly. All of a sudden, this thing comes in.
He wants to bless you, but we slow him by focusing on the old focus on what's wrong.
And last I want to share with you an experience I had where I slipped into arrogance.
And, and so, you know, Friday, I, we were at a dinner with two people, very, you know, very successful.
Once upon a time, they had, I think, 11 McDonald's franchises, which if you understand McDonald's franchises, it's a million bucks per franchise and a hundred grand to attend Hamburger University.
Right. So they were, they were doing okay. You know, over $25 million in sales a year.
And, and they started talking about some, some things that I felt I knew about. Right.
So they started talking about Rehobroam and the splitting of Israel, the north and south and the lost, you know, the 10 lost tribes of Israel, which to my study, I don't believe there was a 10 lost tribes of Israel.
Because it says those of pagan went this way and those of the Lord went that way. Right. So that was between the 12, although they named them, you know, two different things.
And so I just, I just fell into this kind of, you know, I didn't like openly rebuke them, but I gave my feedback.
And in thinking about that, I wasn't very godly.
Now I don't, they didn't, they weren't super offended and how dare you terrible person, but I wasn't as loving as I could have been.
And what reminded me of this is, you know, afterward, I prayed about that and, and I, and I found that, yeah, you know what, I did step into that.
Love, just being of love, you know, Ephesians 429 has always been such a solid verse for me of do not let unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs.
That's all about where they are.
Where are they?
When we think we know something that they don't know that is contrary to what they know, how do we, how do we love them instead?
You know, how do we love them anyway?
And, and so it was just, just a, not a condemnation because a condemnation is not of Christ, but a conviction of, hey, next time I encounter that scenario, I believe I'm going to do better at it.
I really do. And, but this is the, now I see my other part of my note here.
How did I actually come to that conclusion? Right? Because John, he kind of started up off with, you know, hey, any, you can't have self-awareness, any awareness I have someone else pointed out.
Well, that was my wife.
So on the, on the way home, you know, and she knows, I mean, she knows me and, you know, I kind of, I kind of stepped back a little bit in conversation.
after I saw them going down a path biblically that I didn't think was accurate.
I kind of, you know, step back a little bit and she goes, you know, when you think you're right,
you know, you kind of distance yourself and stuff, right? That's, I mean,
she doesn't pull any punches, man. She just punched me right in the face.
And so, of course, I get in the defense, right? Like, oh, you're talking about, you know,
I'm right. And man, our spouses are such wonderful gifts from God. I mean,
she has helped me in so many different ways. My arrogance, conceit, pride, boastfulness,
all of that stuff. Who else would tell me other than her? And now I did.
I did later after I got over the initial defense and puff upness, you know, that's why they don't
put leaven in the bread, right? Because it puffs the bread up, right? It's pride. And so,
after my puffy uppiness and my, you know, pride response, and I got into prayer and
the Lord's like, yeah, yeah, you were. Yeah, I guess I was. Dang it. Okay. How do I improve?
So it was about this much beating Ray up and this much, how do I grow? How do I get better?
Right. And so, you know, just so grateful for that. You got to be grateful for that stuff.
You can't beat yourself up. Our triggers, our tribulations, our anger, frustrations,
disappointments, all of those things are there to reveal to us where we need to grow and where
we need to learn. And that is what actually, that Friday night is what led me to the Monday
morning breakthrough of, oh, this is what it means, right? This is what it means to be stepping
into the kingdom. And that's why the hand to the plow thing, what's ahead? What's my daily bread?
What can I do? What can I grow from? Not where'd I screw up? Where am I not enough? Right. All of
that stuff. And then I did have this on here. Oh, and the asking, I used to have a lot of
trepidation around asking, you know, bigger people questions or being around more successful people
that I hadn't hired. Lisa, kind of to your question, and just know God puts you in front of
them for a reason. Okay. You would not be around bigger people unless God wanted that to happen.
And so God wanted you in that room. God wanted you by that person or else you wouldn't have
made it happen. Right. One of the Proverbs is you shall not stand before ordinary men.
Right. Those of the righteous shall stand before Kings, not of ordinary men.
And so you're in that room. God anointed that. So for us to feel less than is disrespectful to
whose we are and who's in us. Because Holy Spirit moved us. You know, Jesus was led by the Spirit
up to the wilderness, right? We were led into that room by the Holy Spirit. He anointed that room.
And so we just have to remember, because the devil wants to pull you back. The devil wants you to
focus on what's different about them, why they're so much better than you, right? The devil wants to
pull you back. And so we got to know, man, God put me in this room. Man, God put me on with John
and Mark. Man, God sent me over here. Wow. Dang. Thank you, man. Thank you for your favor in front
of me and all around me. And so you just got, you'll recognize that. So it's not, there is no
not enoughness because you have the creator of the heavens and the earth inside of you.
Imagine that. Imagine thinking you're not enough when you have the creator of the heavens and the
earth. He made the connection between Orion and Pallides. Like you got that inside of you.
How can we be not enough? All right. There we go. That's my two cents there. Crystal.
So Ray, I just have a question about your pride conversation that you were just having. And
I'm just curious, like, you know, in those situations, and I get that they're believers
and they believe something different than you. And I get with that specific example,
maybe there's not something, you know, deeply needed, but where is our responsibility in love
and coming from the truth? And I think that there's so much in society right now that is,
you know, saying that we're
love is accepting lies. And I feel like sometimes the truth is
offensive, and you might offend people. And I get that there's
like an eloquence in a way of going about things. But I do
feel like sometimes love is telling the truth, even if it
offends somebody. And so I'm just I'm like in that space of,
you know, where is our responsibility? And what is love
really, in those instances, if something is, you know, truly
harmful to somebody, I get that we're looking through our own
projection. But if we're looking through a biblical truth
projection, or biblical truth stance, I guess, you know,
Pastor Mark France, I don't know if you ever listened to him, but
I love when he says, you know, I would rather offend somebody
with the truth and kiss them with lies, you know, and I, I
believe that too. So I guess like, where's the, where's the
compass there?
Yeah, so there's a few facets here, right? Marketing
connection. Right. And so one is and love is, is, you know, I
really didn't understand what radical love was, until I
watched the Darren Wilson movies, The Father of Lights,
where he's going up to satanists and not condemning
them or shaming them or praying with them. And some of them
didn't kind of come to Christ, because all they're really
looking for is love anyway. Right. And so I would, I would
encourage, if you haven't, if you struggle with this kind of
scenario, go watch the Darren Wilson movies. They're absolutely
incredible. Father of Lights is I don't know, that's probably
the most popular one. I like it. Definitely. Holy Ghost, I
believe Holy Ghost Reborn, Finger of God. There's, there's
several of them. They're all fantastic, right? Some of them
have moments where it's like, that part was okay, but radical
love, right. And so I believe it. So, so one is, there is
always a way to say things in a loving manner. But we default to
pride. You know, and so like, let me let me say the same
thing two different ways. So how I said it on Friday is I said,
well, well, I believe that there's no, you know, the no
such thing as the 10 tribes of Israel. Because, you know, when
they split apart, when when, you know, Solomon died, and
Rehobroam broke them apart to the north and the south tribes
from, you know, all 12 different tribes, and when the pagans went
one way, the believers went went the other way. Okay, that's
pretty much how I said it, which I believe to be true. Wow,
that's really powerful. I would love to know how what you've
learned. So here's the second way. I'd love to know what
you've learned around that. You know, based on my study, I
didn't understand it the way that you do. I would love to
connect more on that and see and see where you get. And so now
I'm describing that particular conversation, right? There's a
part I believe it's in Ephesians. One of you may know
the exact location, but I believe it's in Ephesians where
it says, hey, if a brother is doing wrong, rebuke them. Right?
And if they don't listen, go get some people from the church and
go visit them, rebuke them. What people miss is and then if they
still won't listen, I think after you know, three different
times, you boot them out of the church. But what people forget
and they completely miss is it is love that brings them back to
the church. So as humans, we love to kick things out. We love
to rebuke, we love to judge, we love to shame, we're just
designed that way. It's awesome. But we're actually
called to love those not of the church. We're to love, not
rebuke. People miss that. They miss that because it's the love
that will draw them closer to Christ, not the rebuke. You
know, it's just like the, you know, look at COVID, right?
There are a lot of people, they had, you know, people had
different approaches. Some were shamers. How dare you walk in
Costco without a mask? How dare? So did that level of
connection increase mask? No, not at all. In fact, they
probably got the middle finger. Now they hate them even more,
right? It's division and that's what it is. And so it is so
easy. And I would argue most pastors.
live in judgment and shame
Because that's what their congregation
desires and
I don't I don't know your particular instance. I'm not speaking on on that
On the pastor you mentioned but it is so different to be of love
It's just different and love is what attracts
That's what attracts people to get to want to know Christ more not judgment not shame not rebuke
Rebuke is okay. I run a men's Bible study
If I see one of my one of my bros
Saying, you know, hey, man, I'm seeing this chick on the side. I'm gonna say whoa, brother
Mmm, you shouldn't be doing that man. This is this is the path to destruction
I'm like, I'm gonna give him some Solomon Proverbs about the you know, right because he's a brother
and
And so but for me to connect with someone I barely know that is not of faith and wag my finger at them
One will never change them two will never have them come to Christ three
It's pointless. It's not good. And so this is a
very big conversation that that not enough people are having and
So, you know first Corinthians, you know 13, which a lot of people use, you know in their
Wedding vows and at weddings and things like that
But you know if we just I just want to read just just part of it here
If
I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love. I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal
Hey, you shouldn't be sinning
That's that's the clanging cymbal that doesn't change anybody
It just that's just the fact if I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge
And if I have a faith that can move mountains, but I do not have love
I am nothing if I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast
But do not have love I gain nothing
Love is paid. You've heard this love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud
It does not dishonor others. It is not self-seeking is not easily angered
It keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth
It always protects always trust always hopes always perseveres. Love never fails that did it and goes, you know encourage, you know
Read in that but you can change
the word love
to I am
What if you did that
What if you said I am patient I am kind I don't envy I don't boast. I'm not proud
I don't dishonor others. I'm not self-seeking. I'm not easily angered. I keep no record of wrongs
I don't delight in evil. I rejoice with the truth
I always protect always trust always right and so it just starts to to change you and
There are so few examples of actual love in our society
It's hard to point you to many because you just you just don't see them but love is what brings people to different states
loving the person that is
Sinning
loving the person that
You know is doing the thing that's not biblical
Loving them has the opportunity to change them not chastising them not judging them not rebuking them
If they're not a believer if they're not of the faith you judging shaming them not gonna change them ever
that's the difficulty is
Who has knowledge but doesn't use it as a weapon on others who don't have knowledge
very rare person
That's that's my unpopular take on your question
Helpful hurtful
No, sorry myself so I don't have any interruptions while you're talking but no, yeah that is I I
Appreciate that response. I like your response
Yeah, thank you
Most like what I wish and I mentioned this to you know to my pastor
what I wish more pastors would do and my pastor he'll do this sometimes is
Hey, I'm gonna give you some truth
To you the believer
Don't use this truth to beat the crap out of others
you know like I had a guy come to my
Men's Bible study and we thoroughly we really dug into Ephesians 533 which talks about, you know
Wives respect your husband men. Love your wives, right?
and
You know, why are they different because men operate at their the highest desire for the man is to be respected
The highest desire of women's to be loved. That's why it's instructing. All right guys
as instructing, right?
Men, love your wives.
I know that's difficult for you.
Women, respect your husbands whether they deserve it or not.
I know that's difficult for you, right?
So it's, you know, pointing.
And one of the guys in our neighborhood, his takeaway,
so I didn't, Ray didn't do a good job here.
His takeaway was he went home and said,
hey, Ray says you're supposed to respect me.
And the wife tells my wife, my wife tells me,
I'm like, oh, oh, that's so terrible.
So we have to, you know, like put multiple pillows
around truth and say, hey, just cause you understand this,
don't wield it as a weapon.
It's very similar to the love languages.
Some people learn their love language
just to beat up everyone around them on,
hey, you know I'm acts of service, service me, right?
And it's just like, okay, I don't think that's the point
of learning your love language.
That's terrible if that's the case
of shaming everybody else.
But that's what a lot of churches do.
And so very, very difficult to let me teach truth
but also add pillows to it.
So you don't take this truth and use it as a bat, right?
But instead use it as, let me have this knowledge
but remain in the state of love.
Let me have the knowledge, keep seeking knowledge,
but let me be of love.
And that's, if there's a more difficult thing,
I'm not sure I know what it is.
One of the, I've shared this before,
but you know, my wife, she's bananas
about near death experience stuff.
So she'll watch this stuff all the time.
And one of them I thought was really, really powerful.
And the guy, you know, dies on the operating table.
He describes different things.
Yeah, then they use this tool on me.
He shouldn't know what tool they used on him.
He was dead, right?
And so like, that's a very common thing
with near death experiences.
And he sees Jesus, right?
And Jesus says to him, he says,
so were you, you know, were you, are you someone of love?
And he's like, absolutely.
He goes, well, are you prejudiced?
He's not at all.
I'm not the least prejudiced person.
And he said, well, how do you feel about prejudiced people?
Oh, they're terrible.
Oh, I can't stand them.
They're the worst.
See, that's not of love.
We know prejudice is wrong, right?
We don't like that.
We're called to love them.
And we could pick a few other categories
that would be even more unlovable
than even someone prejudiced.
And we'd be very convicted to ask ourselves
if we could truly love them.
But that's what we're supposed to be
because we're called to love our enemies,
bless those who persecute you,
love those who hate you.
I mean, these are very clear things.
And, you know, the non-believer that, you know,
drinks too much, or the non-believer
that cheats on their wife,
or the non-believer that, you know,
believes in the law of attraction
or does yoga or whatever, right?
Well, if we're supposed to love our enemies,
we're supposed to love them too.
And so not easy, not easy.
And all right, Eileen.
I find it hard sometimes.
We went to a, yeah,
we went to a sex trafficking fundraiser the other night.
And it's really, really difficult
to love these people that are doing this.
Yeah.
How do we get beyond that?
The disdain and the disgust
and to love someone doing these things.
So you need to understand,
I don't know the exact location,
but I think it's Ephesians six, right?
I think it's Ephesians six, isn't it?
Oh, our struggle is not against flesh and blood,
but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world
and against the spiritual forces of evil
and the heavenly realms, okay?
So Ephesians 6, 12, I should've, I thought it was that.
For our struggle is not against the trafficker.
As weird as that sounds.
Our struggle is not, I'm gonna say it a different way,
our struggle is not against the trafficker.
I'm gonna say it a different way.
You won't like this way either.
Our struggle is not against the child of God.
I know that's hard, that's hard to think.
It's against the rulers a theoretic the authorities the powers of this dark world against the spiritual force of evil in the heavenly realms
So that is that is what it means to hate the sin
love the sinner and
I can't you know, I wasn't even going there but
That is the that has to I mean for me it has to be the hardest type of person to love
But what will ever change them?
And we are not to judge
You know, some people are quick. Oh, they're going to hell
Let let my lips never say that ever
Because I'm not God. I
Don't have that jurisdiction. I don't have that wisdom. I believe in a God that can take someone like
Saul of Taurus
Who was killing Christians and sanctioning the killing of Christians and make him the most prolific writer of the Bible in the New Testament?
at least I
believe in a God that's so powerful that he can take the
Horrible horrible sins that people have committed and and make them actually warriors for him
Because that's what I'm called to do and it's not easy
but is you know
It's not easy I never said it was easy but that biblically is what we're supposed to do and
That
Not easy. I
remember, you know watching
father of lights, I think yeah father of lights and
They have they're at Venice Beach, California and these people are marching down the road and they're saying repent
We're gonna burn in hell
right, and
There's even a little kid. He's like no gays. You're making it into heaven and I see that and I'm just like, ah,
That's a I don't like that message
Don't like that. That's that's your marketing message and they talk to a guy and they're like, hey, how long you been doing this?
He's like I've been down here for 30 years
How many people have you brought to Christ well, I haven't brought anyone
But some of my buddies have
30 years
Marching on a very populated Street
Hasn't brought one person to Christ. Surely there's a different way. It's gotta be a different way
It's gotta be a different way. I don't I don't think God is ordaining that so I found it in my spare
I'm like, oh man these guys
Judgment shame whatever and you know what they did in the movie
They went and they said brother you man you work so hard man
You're out here in the hot Sun and you're you know, you're doing you know
You're trying your very best to help people get to work. No the word of word of Lord
Man, can we pray for you? And they they loved them
And that really convicted me
Because I didn't
That was gross
To just publicly shame people and I just I knew the tactic wouldn't work just as a marketer, right?
But I but I didn't love them
So I was I got to check my spirit there because I'm called to love them. They're a child of God
They may not be they may not have it figured out. They may be doing it the wrong way
But how many times in my life did I not have it figured out?
God rescued me from an eternity in hell
When I sat in a bathtub and tried to kill myself
I was gonna spend eternity in hell
If he can save me he can save everyone I I can I can lock eyes with he's the God of miracles. I
Have to believe more in his God than my conviction on what's wrong with other people
Unpopular opinion not easy. Do I have a perfect definitely not?
They definitely don't
But I'm striving. I'm what next, you know remain in the kingdom and
That person of
Great sin if you want to call it that
One don't know more about Christ that's my hope is to be the light
You've been in my best shot it's tough now you're right absolutely, right
Okay, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing?
You're waving, okay
Do you mind if I jump in real quick? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. I'm waving because I want to say something to Eileen
Um, I'm just prompted to share this Eileen Eileen, you know the story of the person that attacked my husband. Mmm
Good story, and you know and and for the rest of us
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean
So I don't know what to do
But then I heard the word
you. My husband was a police officer for 29 years, well, 30
My friend
and Michael
Then I went and he called me and that
ultimately, but 29 years when he was attacked by somebody who
tried to run him over as he was dealing with a traffic violation
I'll let him you know I'm not sure if this will happen
But my head is shaking from the
on the side of the road. So, Eileen, I cannot tell you how
Shouts, because this is going to be bad
I don't know what you mean did you get hit from your face?
What did you say my son?
many times I prayed to forgive that man. Through multiple
trials, as you know, you know the whole story. Through
multiple trials, through multiple things, I turned to
Ray, I said, I cannot, I am not finding it in myself to forgive
this man. And ultimately, and Ray was very helpful in telling
me, you know, just keep praying for forgiveness, you know,
praying to be able to do that. And every time I would pray, I
would get the same thing. He's evil personified. This man is
evil personified. And I was like, yes, yes, he is, isn't he?
And, and I would pray some more where how can I forgive him? How
can I forgive him? How can I forgive him? And God kept
saying to me, he is evil personified. And it finally
clicked with me. He is evil personified. He's not the evil
one. He's evil personified. And I had to separate that to be
able to forgive him. He is evil personified. And God had told
me that probably hundreds of times until I finally got it. It
finally clicked for me. What we see, and what we condemn and
what we have a hard time forgiving is not of the person
it is of evil.
Powerful. I hope that that and that's a fusion 612. You're not
wrestling against the flesh. You're not wrestling against
him. Okay, I'm Lisa, and then we'll probably wrap up guys.
I just wanted to say thank you, Ray. Um, I my move to Florida,
I've been here for about a week. I'm starting to settle in. But
just your conversation about love. Because God's been
telling me and guiding me with love and just hearing you. And
you're so I'm so thankful to be part of this. And I want to
connect closer to God like you have. And I've been a Christian
for about 20 years. And I'm I'm really excited to just let the
wall down. Yeah. And just go out and be and love. Yeah. And
see who I can meet and how many friends I can make and just love
on people and not worry about money. Don't worry about stuff.
And just care about people. So thank you. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. Book suggestion for you guys. It's a short one.
But it's what really helped me with my breakthrough this this
week. It's called the nature of freedom. The nature is short. I
read it in two days, and not a full two days, nature of
freedom, by Graham cook. And Graham, he also wrote crafted
prayer, which I recommend. But nature of freedom by Graham
cook. It really challenged me when I first like, I was
different. When I first started reading my and where I was
challenged to by the time I finished, I was a different
person. And and so I hope that you have a similar experience or
even greater. But Graham cook nature of freedom. Oh, love you
guys so much. So proud of you guys for showing up. And we're
here. You know, if we can help you don't have to wait, by the
way, you don't have to wait for our monthly calls or whatever.
Hit us up on boxer if we can help you in any way we love you.
All right. Bye, guys. See you.