We are recording Monday night, men's heart check-in,
Monday, December 9th.
So we were just talking about food,
one of our favorite subjects to talk about
here on Monday night.
Yeah, no, the Brazilian steakhouse sort of idea
where they come, I guess the idea is
the Brazilian style steakhouse is the concept of
some guy way back in the day,
whoever knows what happened,
he had a restaurant and he was having trouble
getting the service out to the people.
Either the kitchen was backed up
or I think the orders were so backed up,
they was having trouble getting service out to the tables.
And so he just decided, take the cuts of meat,
just take them out there and start serving people,
just start serving on plates,
just start serving all the cuts of meat that he had.
And it just became this sense of like,
oh, this is kind of actually makes sense
to have a style of service this way.
So if you'd ever been to a Brazilian steakhouse,
typically there's like sort of a cold cuts bar
that you go to with cheeses and antipasto
and maybe potato salad and other salads.
And so you go and get that.
And so you can go and serve yourself almost right away.
And then you have the little disc on your table
and it's either yes or no.
And if it's yes,
they just keep bringing you meat all night long.
Top sirloin, bottom sirloin, brisket, barbecue,
poultry, whole chicken parts,
and then lamb and pork,
and then like bacon wrapped things,
and then all the stuff.
Anybody hungry yet?
I think I'm getting meat sweats already, David.
Yeah, so it was really great, really awesome.
I love it.
And then you can flip it over and say no.
And then basically you're like, okay, I'm good.
I'm full for now.
And maybe in about five minutes, I'll feel better.
And then I'll flip it back over
and just get some more meats coming.
And they do not stop.
And there's garlic covered pieces.
And then there's like Parmesan covered pieces.
Oh my gosh, Abraham, you're like shaking your head.
Like, yeah, I know.
I know what this is all about.
And so it's all good.
Anyway, yeah, I've had a stressful week
just because just a lot of things are happening.
A lot of changes,
a lot of things we're trying to get done
before the end of the year.
And of course the holidays are stressful
just because you got all the obligations.
So it has been pretty difficult,
but I have done pretty good.
I would say I'm about 85% on my sugar thing this week.
I did really good throughout the week.
And then the weekend came and I had,
I don't know if I quite had a donut.
Maybe I did, but I had a few bites,
but so I didn't go as hard in like as I would normally.
Like if I was gonna have a piece of cake or whatever,
I had like maybe a few bites.
And so I definitely trimmed back.
So about 85, 90% success rate, I think about this week.
So I'm happy with that.
And I'm gonna try to continue on.
I was good today on my no sugar
or no additional sugar sort of intake.
So that's kind of what I'm doing.
So anybody else, how was your week?
What's going on?
What's going on with you?
Chris, you're sharing a little bit about yourself
as far as like, hopefully there's a chapter that's closing.
So praise God for that.
If you wanna elaborate on that, you certainly can.
But anybody else have anything that's on their heart,
on their mind?
There's a few folks that are showing up here
that we haven't seen for a minute.
So welcome.
And I think everybody's been here at least once before.
So no introductions necessarily,
unless you wanna reintroduce yourself as someone else.
My name is Antigua Montoya.
That's good.
There you go.
All right.
Stephen, this is not your first time, correct?
No, it's my second time live.
I've watched a couple of these.
But I sometimes forget
because the time zones are quite different.
Right.
I'm happy to be here whenever I remember.
Yeah.
Your accent would suggest that you're elsewhere
in the world.
Yeah, I'm actually not in the country
where I was born either.
So I'm all over the place right now.
Oh, well, good for you.
World travel, love it.
Yeah, sort of.
David, I do have a quick question.
I put it in the chat to everyone too,
is I've got a friend or it's actually.
well I guess level two friendship lady that got me into the group but she
mentioned she started way before the app existed and she's talking about parts of
the program that I can't find on my app so for instance the divine
masculinity and the divine feminine so I don't I can't I don't know if that's
still available and then there was something else the love accelerator I
think yeah so we have a little bit ranged a little bit differently on the
men's section of the app and I might be able to see that here in a second when
it comes up on my screen and okay in the right direction for that are you
possibly referring to like past sessions that were not added to the app
possibly but I don't know what was available beforehand because I only
started a month and a half ago well I got him yeah I'm pretty nude myself
okay yeah typically all the extra things there Steven are went under the training
tab it says paths sessions yeah that's right a lot of those lessons are right
there in the path sessions and divine feminine divine masculine isn't in there
we need to definitely add that okay cool oh that's a good looking out for
especially for that teaching I think that's pretty good one for sure yeah yeah
so just to maybe add to that is this past weekend I met met her for the first
time face-to-face because we're in different cities oh yeah so we've been
talking to about a month and a half and that was really cool to meet her I feel
because she's been involved for so long it sounds like she knows everything about
everything and I feel like I'm a little bit blind coming into the dating game
but it went really well so just thank you to well to everyone here sharing
often and all the training that I've done so for the five-week artwork is
really good so I don't know where it's going hopefully up and forwards and
upwards but it's it was a really cool first meetup okay so um so it seemed
like you enjoyed yourself and did you did you feel like there was a reasonable
connection to the point where it's like okay yeah this is something that could
continue on at least to the another meeting or another encounter continued
conversation correct is that kind of what I'm getting yeah definitely yeah I
think we both feel the same at this stage so it was yeah we had a good time
I was fortunate enough to so I traveled to where she is and I've got good
friends in the same city so it was really good to stay with them and then
just meet up while we this Saturday we spend the whole day together but um
before and after you know just meeting up and so on so fortunately there was
good what what activities did you do did you just kind of hang out or did you
actually do any activities yeah so these um we're in New Zealand so we've got
loads of volcanic mounts all over the place not not active none of them are
well there's one active but that's a small little island quite far so we we
locals normally go and hike them and then look around from the top so with
that which is there's a really nice one so we hiked it up spend some time on top
came down and said it is coastal to you and then we did a bit of a coastal walk
sitting around a lot just chatting and then went into town got some lunch and
then in the afternoon late afternoon there was a big choir that did Christmas
carols so we went to to do that that's an hour or so and after that we went for
dinner and then I went home or she went home and I went home so it was a full
day but it was a really cool yeah what a day that sounds like sounds like we all
need to get dates and I need to take my wife we just need to come to New Zealand
and have a really great date there because it's really cool I think you do
you planning cruises to go places I think you maybe next year the year after
you should plan a big trip to the NZ yeah that's true I have I have a good
friend here
In Austin, he lives in a little town south of Austin,
and he owns a company.
They actually make avatars for AI,
for artificial intelligence type of applications.
He makes the avatar, the people,
that would be like a host or would be like somebody
that you would pick out of a lineup
in order to be your AI avatar person
that speaks with scripted, so not real people,
but online avatars, and he makes those,
and so his company does that, and we play golf together,
but he's a New Zealander, and then his friend,
he always invites his other friend,
who's also a New Zealander, and they come,
they speak New Zealand, and, joking.
No, they speak all sort of things,
and they have sort of like all of these jokes
under their breath that, you know,
they're constantly going at, is where I play golf,
and I just kind of have to laugh along,
because some of them I don't get,
and, you know, so it's just a lot of fun, though.
He's a really fun dude.
Yeah, good.
I'm glad you had a good time,
and I'm glad that that seems to be something
that has some potential, so good on you, that's great.
Wonderful. Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, no, I'm very excited,
but thanks to all your help, yours and Jackie's.
Yeah, it's very good. Oh, wonderful.
Good job.
Well, good.
Well, so what else, folks?
What is going on?
I think, Thomas, you had something
that you maybe wanted to share.
Go ahead, if you want to do that.
I will say that Stephen's comment about being behind,
and, you know, the lady that he's talking to
seems to be ahead.
That's probably pretty typical
for the male-female relationship at times,
especially on certain topics.
It would seem like, it's like,
oh, you know a little bit more than I do
on a lot of these different things,
especially relational things.
So that's nothing to be ashamed of,
nothing to be afraid of, so don't worry about that.
Cool.
Yeah, I mean, always happy.
I mean, if anyone else has anything they want to talk about,
that's great, too.
I would say two things that I've been thinking about.
One is a woman that I went on a date on
accused me of love bombing,
and I was really surprised,
but would love to hear just kind of general thoughts
about how to respond well
when kind of concerns arise from somebody.
And then also, I'm happy to share, Joshua.
My understanding is that it's kind of a newer phrase.
It tends to show up in attachment theory discussions
where some attachment types may engage
in a lot of very romantic, very forward behavior
that kind of like gets the other person kind of hopes up
and then in a way that doesn't live up to the seriousness
of kind of the internal commitment of the person
who's engaging in those actions.
But, and then the other thing was I went on a bumble date
on, let's see here, yesterday,
and it was someone who was listed as Christian,
but who hasn't like been to church in a while,
has maybe not kind of in kind of the relationship with God
that I kind of have been seeking things along those lines,
but it was kind of like open to it.
So I was also interested in hearing some advice
or wisdom or perspective about, you know,
what does it look like?
You know, is it good to give like women a chance
to kind of grow spiritually?
I'm sure there's time for, you know,
there's a time for everything,
but what are some of the factors in terms of deciding
when it's healthy or when it's unhealthy?
Kind of how to give someone a shot,
but also avoid the kind of maybe my internal urge
of becoming kind of like a spiritual mentor
instead of kind of like a partner,
like in kind of an early dating relationship,
if that makes sense.
That's good.
Yeah, those are fabulous topics that we can leap off into.
Anyone want to react a little bit
while you're thinking of maybe how you want to react?
I do want a little bit more information.
So the love bombing, she accused you.
So what did that look like?
Like she was like, oh my gosh, your love bombing,
like stop and like, I'm not, I don't want another date
or something like after the fact,
kind of like how did that sort of come about?
So,
this woman and I met at a mutual friend's wedding.
She was like, oh yeah, I live in Nashville.
And I was like, oh, hey,
I'm gonna be there in a couple of weeks.
And she was like, oh yeah,
we should hang out while you're there.
And I was like, sure.
So she kind of asked me out.
I tried to be kind of gentlemanly,
planned something, picked her up.
She, during the date, was saying things like,
wow, I've never had so much fun
and my cheeks are hurting from smiling so much.
And I don't think that I was having quite as much fun,
but I was glad she was having a good time.
And then afterwards I had said, thank you.
Like we were kind of like joking around
kind of like a lot of the date, which is fine.
And then I think I had received feedback in the past
that when I had said,
you know, I view us more as friends
or I'm not planning on kind of signaling
that I wasn't going to ask her out again,
that that had been hurtful.
So this time, as I've done some other times in the past,
said, you know, thank you so much for sharing time.
And I'm glad we got to kind of share, you know, last night.
And then a week later,
I think she got upset that I wasn't asking her out again
and then wound up wanting to know why.
And when I said, I felt like my heart was saying no,
she said that was generic
and that I had given her lots of compliments
and that the compliments seemed like love bombing
and insincere in retrospect.
So I think maybe part of it is that,
you know, that she was really disappointed or, you know,
but I don't know.
I wasn't sure a hundred percent how to deal with it.
Based on what you're saying,
that's not really love bombing.
Love bombing is when someone comes across,
and lots of times guys can do this
in a sort of an anxious way.
Love bombing is when someone wants
to make an anxious attachment quickly.
So they put on a bunch of affection,
a bunch of romance,
a bunch of like over the top sort of signals in that way
in order to capture the attention of the other person
and then to try to sort of like,
not in, I guess in trap might be a good word,
sort of like captivate them
whether they're wanting to be captivated or not.
So they might be interested in first
because they're being overwhelmed by this,
all this love that's going on,
but then eventually the relationship
or what's really happening is the over affection
becomes sort of a controlling
or sort of manipulative nature
and further on in the relationship.
So there's like an early on sort of love bombing
and it's sort of an unhealthy way of control.
From what you're describing,
this has nothing to do with love bombing
as far as that sort of definition
of what love bombing has come to be.
This is kind of like when,
I don't know, it's kind of funny.
You know, have you ever seen those kids,
those two kids in high school
that were just like so overly affectionate?
Like they were sometimes kind of like,
I hate to stereotype, but it's kind of just makes my point,
but it's kind of like they're nerdy kids.
Like in my school, it was kind of like band kids,
were always kind of like some nerdy kids and stuff.
And I was in band.
So I am associating with this group of people.
I'm not, you know, like, you know, casting out.
I'm just saying, you know, it's kind of like that couple
that's like so overly affectionate,
but it's like sickening.
Like, and it's, you can tell that it's unhealthy.
You know, like, oh, they're not,
it's like some people would say,
oh, they're just in love.
No, they're not in love.
It's just like, it's too much.
You understand what I'm saying?
That's sort of a more of example
of kind of like a love bomb situation,
where it's just like,
there's something wrong with this situation.
And these kids don't even really know what love is.
And yet they're just so like overly, so attached.
They're attached in sort of an unhealthy way,
typically because they're probably very,
they have virtually no attachment at home.
And so they don't come from really solid,
you know, backgrounds.
And so they're attaching to each other
because they're trying to anchor to something
that's trying to show them love and affection.
And so anyway.
from what I'm you're describing doesn't sound like love bombing it does sound like kind of like her
way of sort of getting back or maybe pushing back a little bit because of your comment of like
I don't really know that I'm going to you know um you signaled I'm not going to give you know
ask you out again that sort of thing what was she was she was upset that I didn't yeah yeah
over that yeah and then it's like and then she used the things that you were complimenting her
about and how you treated her which was sounds like you treated her awesome sounds like you did
everything incredible in terms of what a man should do on a date on a first date planned it
out complimentary she's being treated so well she thought she probably thought way more of this
on this first impression that she's getting she'd never been treated that way before and then all
of a sudden you you know appropriately and correctively you know like say well I'm not sure
that there's another date or whatever or you didn't call her up and follow up and so her she
was disappointed it sounds like it was just sort of a little bit of a dig more than an actual
um love-bombing situation and um anybody else comments concerns questions I had a question
just a general one just about like the spirit match profile well I mean I we're still dealing
with I was referring to Thomas's situation if you want to hold on to that for a minute dj anybody
else as far as Thomas's so so I'll jump in kind of jump in real quick so also another question you
had two times I don't want to forget that too right sure yeah I mean whatever
um what was the second question yeah oh the the the second question it was it's more like a second
situation um uh it was it was in regards to how do you go out with someone who oh like interested
in Christianity yeah but and and has gone to church in the past but has been kind of disconnected
from that for a while and how much do you kind of say like wow it seems like maybe this is going
to be kind of a difficult haul and how much do you um kind of be open and say like wow this is
you know could be you know um really good for both of us so I I just the first point I think
David nailed it like so the other other thing about love-bombings there's two types there's
the innocent type where there's an anxious that tries to attach quickly and develop and like
develop an emotional connection right and then there's the the nefarious type which is to use
that to love bomb them to get them in bed right and then they're gone so there's that that's why
the the the second one is why love-bombing has such a bad um connotation right but I think her
bar was set so low in her experiences that you being just a nice dude like was so different
that it felt like to her yeah there was such a disparity that it was like oh it only had you know
um and then the second to the second thing on the spiritual thing I mean Thomas if I
am not mistaken you're you're fairly really into you're not just a cupcake christianist
from what I know right like so you know there's um as long as you're not she's progressing before
you sign on a dotted line and you're she's at a place where she's gotten into a faith journey
that you're comfortable with right um then I would I think that would be okay but I would really be
um reticent because you do you can be unequally yoked in a christian marriage so
yeah and that's you know um oh Scott were you unmuting there oh yeah I'm good whenever so go
ahead I mean Thomas the for the first piece like you know if I know what I did was you know I was
like you were did everything right I would I would maybe I would apologize to her you know
if this conversation had text or whatever say I'm sorry that you felt that way that wasn't my intent
intent and I'd forget about it because I know I did something right and however she responds
and how she responds and I'd be confident that I did what was right and I wasn't love bombing
somebody like that I mean it's a good question to ask but I think you have to have the confidence
in yourself and okay I did everything right and I know I didn't do that but I'll apologize I
apologize that's that's how it came off and then she leaves it there however she leaves
is how she decides to leave it it's not my decision I mean I don't control the decisions
she makes yeah um and then I'm just gonna move on um as for the one who
on the date it would depend on where they're at I think in their faith journey like is it a
I'm not going to say like a first date like do you go to church are you like where is this I'm
interested but and say that's why I'm not interested in you now I would if I got enough
information that I was like okay I don't think this person is really in a faith community and
actually serious about walk with Christ that I would you know I might just tell him hey I
appreciate everything I still think we're going to be a good fit and I wish you the best and I
move on because I'm not going to bring up just like think it's because I don't think you're
a Christian or whatever that's just not there's nothing healthy about that for me to tell her
that like it's just a hey I I just don't think we're a good fit I appreciate your time and I
wish you the best if you if you get to that feeling if you think that she's it's just on
a journey like there might be worth going out a little bit longer and seeing where that's at
but that's just that's my two cents
yeah when you get when you get pushback from somebody whether it's accusatory or whether
it's somebody that's being honest with you to try to tell you you know something that you
weren't expecting and it does give you an opportunity to say oh was that really like
internal your internal dialogue is to go oh did I really do that or was that not real and then
you know um I know in my heart that that wasn't really my posture that wasn't my heart
posture to be doing that sorry that came across that way so yeah so it does give you an opportunity
to reflect introspectively but at the same time that should be short-lived and I think that's
kind of like what you've done I think I feel like in asking the question you want to support
from the community but I kind of feel like you also knew in your heart of hearts that you like
yeah I kind of knew that I did pretty good on that date it wasn't like you know I wasn't didn't
have an attitude of trying to love bomb or anything like that and so I think you should
definitely be confident about that for sure and as far as the as far as the dating somebody who
in terms of like their level of salvation whether to go on I mean like there's a couple things it's
kind of like do I want to yeah I mean obviously going to all the way to the marriage level like
you know that's that's a long way off in a relationship right so but I mean obviously
you're sitting there like yeah I don't necessarily want to be married to somebody who isn't a
believer who isn't on the same same journey as I am they may not be at the same place on that
journey as I am but at least we're headed in the right direction that to me is obviously I think
sort of a given I think that's sort of like a minimal expectation of who you want your spirit
made to be but at the same time as far as like dating somebody yeah I think um I think Scott
had it you know it's like depends on where they're at in their faith if there's somebody who like is
never heard the gospel never heard you know truth presented properly never met Jesus and they are
wanting to and the Lord has now and they're at they're at a strategic inflection point in their
life and they're just beginning their faith journey that may be somebody that you still
want to get to know whether you're dating them or not that may be secondary to that situation
um but it may develop into something that where you begin dating their their faith develops and
comes along and it buds into a relationship I've seen that happen lots of times but if this person
is in opposition to faith and they're like ah they're skeptical they're doubting they're still
wondering they may not be at that strategic inflection point that may not necessarily be
someone yeah you would want to get involved with in a relationship uh any even at a dating
relationship um so it's a little bit you know that's a little gray area but I I always like
whether you're going to date the person or not I always want to I was very careful about this when
I taught Bible college to my students because here we were in Bible college Christian institution all
Christian all believers so to speak that are in class and this is you know we're talking about
Christian fundamentals and we're training in ministry and I was always just very turned off
because I was in full-time vocational ministry at that time like wearing a bunch of hats doing like
as as churchy and as religious as a person can be in terms of the mode of what what I was in
and I was always just turned off by the fact of the us and them sort of thing
you know I understand theologically that there is
is a difference between people who are believers and unbelievers.
Um, but at the same time, when you're in the field and when you're relating
with people, it's, I, you know, I guess in the context of a religious service,
it becomes very evident, like there's an us in them, you're calling sinners
to an altar or something like that.
You know, if there's some sort of salvation call or whatever, and it
becomes a very, like a very stark contrast to people who are, who are
there that, that you want to be invited in, but it seems to be like on the
street or in real life or in the workplace or out in the, you know, out
in the, by, by it's like, we're, I'm a human and you're a human, like we're
all created in God's image to the point where, like, you need to come
into the level of truth and I can share some of that with you if you're open
to it and I wish the best for you in your pursuit of truth and faith versus
making this very specific thing like, oh, you're not a believer or I am a
believer, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I guess deal with it.
I would deal more in the relational part of it and let that humanity be extended
there a little bit more rather than making a clear cut, oh, I don't date
unbelievers type thing, you know, I would leave it, especially if my goodness, I
don't believe in missionary dating, date somebody in order to get them
saved because you're into them.
But at the same time, if you are into somebody and they're like
fascinating you and they're, you're attracted to them and so forth.
And, and it's just like, wow, you know, this person is pretty, pretty great
person, they just really need to meet Jesus.
I would kind of work with that.
Maybe, maybe you're not dating them, but maybe you're definitely making it a
matter of prayer for that person.
Like that's the kind of person, like I'm connecting with that
person on all sorts of ways.
Like I find them attractive.
I find them intriguing.
I find them, you know, geographically, locationally, like viable because
they live there in proximity to me.
They work where I work or they go to the, you know what I'm saying?
Like there's, they're doing their life.
Like all of those things are hitting on cylinders, except the faith part.
I'd be making that a matter of prayer.
I'm like, man, Lord, can we, can we get this one saved?
Can we work on your child here?
And like, and then maybe we could like make a relationship out of this.
You know, I don't see anything wrong with that.
You know, and that can be a beautiful journey.
So I guess my question on the antithesis of that is kind of like, you
know, don't be afraid of that.
Don't be afraid of an unbeliever, somebody who just is pre believing
that's just hasn't met Jesus yet.
Versus someone who literally is showing you, I have no interest in the Lord.
I have no interest in, you know, faith development, that kind of thing.
That's probably somebody that's probably not ready.
And then you're, you just be friends with them.
That's just my take on that.
Yeah.
Well, thank you guys.
Yeah.
I think in regards to the first, the first thing, I appreciate that perspective.
I think one of the most helpful things was to consider letting it go.
Cause I think, um, I don't know.
Henry cloud said one time, he said, if one person tells you you're a horse, like
put them on medication and if three people tell you you're a horse by a saddle.
Um, and, uh, so this is like by far the first time anyone has ever
said anything like that to me.
So I think hearing, thinking about that combined with what all of you said, I
think maybe I can let it go instead of continuing to wonder kind of like, am I
unconsciously like doing, you know, inappropriate things, you know, or that
kind of stuff, um, in regards to the second thing, I think that is interesting
and helpful.
I I've been in situations where it's like people who like are, are kind of very
kind of faith driven.
And I've been in situations where people are like, I'm not interested in that.
I'd say this is kind of the first time where someone was like, I am interested,
but I'm also kind of like, I haven't been very involved in a, in a long time.
And so it's kind of like, Oh, wow.
Like how do you, you know, so it's, it's, it's interesting to kind of see
someone else that it kind of a different place on the spectrum instead of kind of
like super in it or super out of it.
Yeah.
To me, that to me would be intriguing because to me, that would give you, I'm
just looking at this from 1%.
This is, I'm just reflecting on this.
It seems like because so many people have trouble dating, IE gets getting to know
somebody that, that actually gives you a little bit more.
Runway to start having a little bit more interesting
Developing conversation to get to know this people this person
versus trying to figure out if this is a
Romantic connection like because there's so much anxiousness like like oh, there's so much agenda on that sort of like is this a romance?
Connection should I date this person?
Should I go is this my spirit mate like that kind of sort of takes it out of that field for a second
long enough to have
interesting conversations on faith like
Maybe your stepping stone at the very least from this person's faith journey. You know, that's that's kind of that's kind of intriguing to me actually
Rather than yeah, and and I don't want to be manipulative and kind of you know, so it's it's interesting to try to
Do a multifactorial thing and let it be about the emotions maybe also instead of kind of I get that I get that but what
The alternative being like what
What worse thing for somebody who actually?
Like could be on there on a faith journey
To then experience rejection from somebody not to say that you're going to accept them just because for the sake of not being rejected
but at the same time like
you know embrace their faith journey as a friend first, I guess is what I'm trying to say and
Then decide later whether this is a relational opportunity
So that so that
they can say hey, I met this guy and he's a believer and
I don't you know, it didn't work out or I'm not really, you know, maybe there's not a romantic connection
but you know, it's the first time a believer was like
You know, okay with me as I am and that's powerful
That's powerful in somebody's faith journey
Like I'm okay with where you're at. Like let's you know, let's talk more, you know, or
You know, if you feel like it's too entangled whatever maybe you're not the one
to
Have that discussion further with them, but encourage them at least on their faith journey for sure
I always love I always love that space where somebody is
Close to their to their a strategic inflection point
Their their salvation moment, I don't know it's different for everybody and it's different for all people
How they sort of finally come to the Lord or come back to the Lord or whatever it is
That part and that season in someone's life. That is just fascinating to me
I've never been ceased to cease to amaze me
The stories of people when they tell that I like how they came to faith
How they came to the point where they decided it this this was going to be
this was going to be the moment in my life where I was either going to
Get serious with God or receive salvation or however, they describe it. There's so many different ways it happens
That's always very fascinating to me. And I think it's just beautiful. I love that
So I love to be around when people are in their lives
So I love to be around when people are going through that
Thanks guys
That's my perspective, um
Thank you thomas. I appreciate thanks. Thanks for sharing if anybody else has any comments, you know, let it let us know
um
Anything else dj you were asking something about spirit mate match
Yeah, just a general question
um
Like if you like test, let's just say just that full hypothetical out there
Let's see you test more like anxious and attachment style
Um, does that mean that jackie's gonna avoid?
You know anybody their profile profile is avoidant
You can never get matched with them or is that or is this course more of like learning?
Where your weakness is and then just working through that? I'm just curious because
If both are not aware of that then that's that's just endless torture if the one's avoidance and the other one is yeah
I mean anxious attachment attachment style theory in general
is really more of of
Self-awareness like where where you're trending on that sort of idea. And again, it's just an idea
It's not a theology. It's not like a hardened
People are this people are that you're this that you know
We always want to make sure that when we're using these tools and these ideas that we're not
Using them to try to like fixate a label on somebody, you know, so that we got to be careful about that
But at the same time it's definitely not a metric by which we would
Match or not match people. I wouldn't like
All right, get all the anxious people together
We're gonna put them together and put all that, you know avoidant people put them together and just make them work it out
you know like that would just be
That would be fun to watch but it'd be really poor match
making, I'll just tell you that right now.
So no, no, we don't use that as a metric to make the con, you know, in the
connections, but it is helpful for each individual to sort of, you know, be aware
of like, Hey, this is, this is how, um, I, you know, I processed in that attachment
theory, you know, sort of the quiz, you know, sort of thing.
Um, and to be self-aware, it's like, you know, I, I tend to be avoided.
I tend to be anxious and here's the reasons why, and it's also based on
your previous relational experience.
Your, and not just like romantic relationships, but just you in
relationships, period, like your family relationships, your social
relationships, your work relationships, you know, like how you behave that way.
It gives you sort of an indication, like, Hey, I'm tending to, um,
behave this way in my relationships.
And so I want to wonder why I want to wonder if there's something there
that I want to do, maybe some hard work in to help me get to a point where maybe
I'm not so anxious and not so avoidant.
Um, are there some areas in my life where I'm, I'm, you know, more solid in,
um, my relational connection and, and really capitalize on that.
How do you really control like anger?
Like, so like I, um, and I would characterize myself as like, um, mostly
healthy attachment, but I skew sometimes into the anxious territory.
But, um, I've dated several women, like not like, um, serious relationships,
but just, you know, beginning stages with women that were, um, the avoidant.
And I would just really, really annoyed with them, like, because I'm the type
of guy who like, if I send out a text, I, I re I expect a response and it
doesn't necessarily have to be right that second, but at least don't let me
make me wait for several days before responding like, um, that happens to me
a lot and it just makes me really angry when that happens.
Yeah, no, that's, that's, I think, I think the general respect of men and
women, you know, handling, um, this type of communication, um, respectfully
is, is, you know, is helpful.
It's honorable and we all should endeavor to do it the best we can.
But the reasons that people do communicate poorly is because of
usually their own fears, their own, um, their own heart issues.
Um, I, you know, if somebody is going to say, Hey, this is, I don't think
this is going to be a relationship.
I don't think this is, you know, I'm interested in going on
another date or whatever.
Um, yeah, definitely men and women should have the honorable, uh,
communication to be able to say so, you know, and be honest, you know, and
upfront about it within a reasonable time.
And so leaving somebody on red for a couple of days, yeah, that's, that's,
that's not helpful and it's hurtful and it's dishonoring.
Um, yeah, and it can cause you to get angry, but you should, when that
happens, if that happens, you should read into it as such, you should say,
you know, um, I really thought there might be something there, but, you
know, maybe there's a good reason.
Some people do have, well, I've heard stories where somebody, you
know, for, for really good reason.
I was literally caught in a snowstorm or I got sick and went to the hospital.
You know what I mean?
There's, there are some times where there's situational
reasons why things happen.
But for the most part, you know, people should be honorable in their
communication and reasonable within, you know, if it's, uh, if it's the next
day, maybe they had a heavy work schedule and then by the following day, they
follow up, that's reasonable, right?
Yeah.
You'd think they'd want to follow up as soon as possible.
And you would hope to, especially if you're expecting response, but at the
same time, you know, if it's a couple of days, two or three days, you're like,
did you get run over by a train?
Like what happened?
You know, please.
Yeah.
That's, that's what, that's where I'm at.
Like I've gotten that like so much and I'm just done with it.
Like, I'm just really annoyed.
Well, and again, you know, we talked about this with you, Andy as well as,
you know, I think, and this is going through all the no's to get to the yes.
That is super key.
And so I would not waste your emotional energy and all of that on any kind of,
you know, rejecting sort of situations like that.
It's gonna have to let it be water off a duck's back
and not put so much stock into it,
especially so early,
and emotional stock into it.
Just be okay with that.
You know?
And getting-
I haven't actually been on dates like-
To your nose,
before I get to your yeses.
Yeah, I haven't been on dates in several months,
so I kind of am just sitting tight for a bit.
Yeah.
Yeah, certainly.
And I get that,
but get back out there and don't stop trying.
For sure.
I've kind of just relied on matchmaking to get dates.
There's like some online speed dating things
I've gotten some dates through,
but I guess one of the other problems is the long distance.
It's like, I want her to move here,
and usually she says she's okay with it,
and then after several weeks,
then she says,
oh, well actually I'm not okay with moving.
So-
Yeah, well.
Yeah, unfortunately sometimes people may respond
to a little bit prematurely with something
because they feel like they want to say yes,
or they want to,
whatever their motivation is,
they don't want to be rude,
or they want to be agreeable to a certain level,
and then they realize that it's either not possible,
or a lot of different other things.
But it's good to know that earlier sooner than later.
Thomas, you made a comment about Los Angeles
women use lack of response as an attentional message
of disinterest without intending disrespect.
So you're saying that it's more respectful
to not send a message?
No, I'm saying that it's become kind of a method
of communication that I think a lot of people
would be surprised to be accused of disrespect.
It's more kind of like, this is how it is.
Because a lot of women, when they respond and say no,
they get sworn at, or insulted, or whatever else.
Yeah.
I think it's turned into like a very kind of like
high context communication kind of situation.
Yeah.
Where there's a lot of kind of like,
oh, this person didn't respond to me.
They're not being mean,
but I know that they're telling me
that they're not interested.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I understand.
I get that because culturally speaking,
sometimes men especially have a real hard time
with rejection and they respond angrily, violently,
inappropriately, obviously.
Obviously, women have a hard time rejection too,
and they respond differently.
But yeah, it could be a cultural thing as well,
which is sad, difficult.
I wish people could be just more open and honest,
but yeah, you're right.
I mean, I think you're right.
Like a nice, respectful, you know, no, thank you
is always, you know, it's not fun,
but it feels a little better than like,
oh, I guess they're not interested.
Kind of a thing.
What do you think, in this exact context,
what do you think though about the man
for the sake of, you know, being honorable first?
So it's been a moment, maybe it's been 24 hours,
maybe it's been 36 hours and no response.
And you're wanting the response because you're the guy
and you are interested, but maybe she's not,
she's being silent on you.
What about giving a text that says,
hey, haven't heard from you, you know,
if you're not interested, whatever.
Yes, no.
Chris is saying no.
Does that open up a thing of worms?
I think it's more, more than that.
Can you do that honorably?
If you want to, if you want to win her heart,
you just let it sit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You just let it sit.
But if you're 90% sure she's just being silent
because it's a no for her,
to give her a way to give her an out honorably
so that you at least have that communication.
Yes or no?
She doesn't know that it's a no, necessarily.
She might, but you don't know that.
And I'm-
Yeah, but when?
Three days, four days?
No, just leave it.
It could be a month or two.
You move on.
You just move on.
You say that's over, it's done.
You don't, you never double text.
You move on and she may come-
I work in sales, Chris.
I'm getting my answer.
Okay.
Whether you're a prospect or a girl, I'll get my answer.
That's good.
I mean, I see the positives in both.
I'll just be honest and say,
I've never been turned down by a girl.
I keep turning down girls.
I have a pretty good track record, just to get on.
And to Chris's point, right?
Well, okay, so for all the anxious people,
like three days seems like an eternity.
For an avoidant person, three days seems like a minute.
Right? You know, like, and so...
I think that's a big difference, yeah.
Well, no, and so, like, if you're...
Okay, and generally anxious find avoidant,
because that's the cycle,
and that's usually what's most attractive.
I mean, I'd say, like, 80%.
It's a high number.
But, like, so if you're pursuing an avoidant,
three days could be their cadence.
Right?
And, like, so you need to, like, and especially early on,
but let it go.
Right?
Like, you know, and, like, you know,
and I think to the point is,
because I've been the anxious one pursuing,
and then it just turns into a crap show.
You know, like, it just goes...
But when I've backed off,
it ends up coming back around somehow for some reason.
And, you know, there was one that I actually wanted
to be in a relationship,
and it really helped me with my anxious attachment.
Right?
Because I really dug her,
but she just wasn't healed enough
to actually have a real relationship.
You know?
And so, but, like, but she was an avoidant,
and I didn't want to throw her out the door,
because I knew...
Okay, so avoidant people don't become avoidant
because they want to.
Right?
Like, you know, but...
So if you can have the grace and the patience with them
and not get mad at them, you know,
they really need, they really can come around
if you give them the opportunity.
But it just depends on how fractured they are
and how much...
But if it's somebody who you're not really interested in,
then don't put the effort out.
But, you know, I just let her run.
Like, you know, like, let out the real, you know?
It's like, okay, do whatever you want.
I'm going to go do my stuff.
So...
In a situation...
I thank you.
Thanks, Mike, for that input,
because I think you make some really good points
about, like, the difference between who you are as a guy.
Like, you know, to Scott's point, it's great.
Like, his mind is like, I just need...
Just tell me no so that I can move on to the next thing.
And it's just like, that's helpful for him.
Versus someone who, you know, like Chris,
I think what Chris is trying to say is that,
hey, I'm health...
I'm okay just to move on.
And if something comes up, great,
but I'm not going to, like, deign myself
to have that sort of, like,
second follow-up text sort of thing.
So there's...
I think there's this different...
I think that's probably just a difference of opinion
and difference of, like, your mannerisms.
But I definitely wouldn't want there to be the silence.
And for somebody to hang on,
and I feel like maybe, Andy, this might be trouble for you,
is that that silence is, like, deafening to you,
and it creates anger.
So my suggestion of, like, giving an out
after an appropriate amount of time
may give you the closure.
Because I would hate for you to sit there
just in torture, in silence,
because, you know, Chris says,
don't... no second texting.
Nothing against you, Chris.
I'm just saying, you know, like, what works for you is great.
But I'm just saying, for Andy's sake,
maybe it's like, hey, you know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to have sort of, like, this threshold
because I don't want to harbor bitterness.
I don't want to get angry.
It's not worth that to get all upset like that
because it's just not.
And so I might as well just have the answer.
Hey, just let you know what I've heard from you.
If it's, you know, if there's no chance in another date
or however you want to say it, it's fine by me.
I just would love to be able to hear back from you.
And then at that point,
that would definitely be a situation
that was the last point where you text.
I wouldn't follow that up with another text to find out.
And if they're silent again,
then that's definitely your answer.
But if that's something that you know for sure,
that might be a good suggestion.
What about bread crumbing?
Because I did have one girl that.
Yeah.
I thought she was worth it.
And she kept saying that she actually was interested,
but then she kept being silent.
So I was like, I was like, what the heck?
That's good.
What's that?
So if it's banana nut bread crumbs, I'm in.
Yeah.
I think if somebody is interested in you,
they'll get back to you.
I know, like, if I'm interested, I'll get back.
But if you're really not, somebody texts you,
you're kind of like, and then you're like,
I really don't want to respond.
You just like, just keep pushing it off.
And I think that anxious and the avoidant,
you can switch.
I mean, I know I can switch depending on how I feel about the person and also like the avoidant
is really like up front and into it at first. And then they pull back when they start feeling like,
you know, you're getting close because they really have like a, well, both of them have a wound that
they don't feel they're good enough, but the avoidant pulls away. But at first it's all,
you know, that's all on. But I know I've gone, if I really liked somebody, I could kind of be
anxious, but if I don't really like the person that much, I can be more on the avoidance side.
So I don't think we're locked into a certain way. It depends, you know,
you've probably gone both ways. If you think about it, you've been anxious in some relationships
and some of them you've kind of been like, yeah, kind of avoidant. Andy, try, try this text one
line, one line. Hey, have you given up on trying to get to know each other? And the answer is going
to be, Hey, yeah, don't want to, or no. And here's super simple. It's what I do with people
when they don't, when they try to ghost me in sales. Yeah. Hey, have you given up on fixing this?
Nope. Okay. And my conversation starts again or yes. Cool. You're closed. I don't need to
worry about you. Bye bye. On to the next. Yeah. Hey, bless him. Bless him. Yeah. And I say that
like that, not to be right. I'm good. I'm good. See ya. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, John, I would say like,
that attachment styles are only when you want to attach to somebody. So if they're not,
you're obviously going to be avoidant if there's somebody that you don't want to attach with.
Well, that's true too. But if you're not totally sure if you're into it or not, you're kind of
So, but like, so like, you know, and, and there's, is it, you know, I get, I get like, I know when,
when I'm actually really interested in somebody, I like, why am I trying to blow this up? Because
you know, like, so, so I, I can go to that. And then, you know, but like the whole thing is, is
regardless, you need to be locked into your identity. Like whether this chick is cool or
not, and I dig her or whether she spends two weeks before she responds or whatever,
I shouldn't affect who I am or what I do. Right. Like, you know, it's like, you know,
it's like, Hey, if you don't, if you're not worthy, you're not worthy. I mean, that's great.
You know, see you later. Bye bye. But like, you know, but like be so established in yourself
that they can't knock you like, nobody should be able to affect you. I mean, they're going to
affect you, but they shouldn't own you. More like be the, be the thermostat, not the thermometer,
set the temperature and not don't just react to whatever the temperature in the room is.
But I heard this one guy say, I thought was interesting. He said, you don't really miss
like this per the person you miss who you were with them. So certain people bring out certain
things in you, like certain people you act in certain ways, like maybe you want to buy her
flowers or you want to do something and other ones you, you don't really, but, but you liked
who you were when you were with that person. That's what this guy was saying. He's all,
it wasn't so much about them. You, you were, you liked who you were with them.
And which is, you know, cause there's some people who, if you think about it,
who you are with them, you, you don't like who you are with them. And other people you're,
you're like, Oh, I really like who I am. I'm considerate and protective. And this,
with this person and these other people, they bring out the worst. Yeah.
Yeah.
Go. So just to say the other thing to keep in mind, especially if you're on an app is like,
sometimes people are talking to like multiple people and they're like confused and trying to
figure things out. So if you force a decision, they might not have been like, no, but they're
just, their head is like, you know, they're talking to someone else. And so rather than force
a decision, if you just kind of like, you know, if you, if you let, if you let leave it on red,
as they say you know, you, you kind of leave the door open and you're in your heart, you just have
to kind of be like, okay, well that door is closed for me for now, but I'm not going to make them
feel awkward. And I'm not going to necessarily bolt the door closed from my side if they want
to knock on it in the future. Cause I don't know, you know, I give me a month and a half,
I might still be, you know, on, you know, looking for a relationship and, you know, I was,
I'm ready now. And they were trying to figure out someone else. And then three weeks later, like,
you know, they weren't in a relationship with someone else, but they were also messaging
someone else and someone else was leaving them on red, you know? So I haven't dated online a lot,
but there was a girl that.
Um, she wasn't she was actually so so happened. I first met her.
It was an interesting situation. We actually never ended up meeting,
but I was kind of curious for a while. We went back and forth for a while,
and she was kind of giving me a little bit of run around.
And I just kind of I didn't force it. I didn't say, like, what do you want?
Or do you want to go forward? And I just kind of, like, left it,
you know, politely, but I just didn't, like, pursue it anymore.
And, you know, a month and a half later, two months later, she was, like,
inviting me to help her with some stuff at her house and to meet her dog.
And at that point, I was I had kind of moved on and I was I had other things that were occupying
my time. So I'm just saying if I had forced a decision, the decision from her side would have
been no. But because I just kind of was like, OK, well, you don't really seem to be open to
taking this any further. And I'm not going to force you to make a decision right now.
If you're interested, you know, the implicit implication is the implication is like,
if you're interested down the line, like my door is still open.
You know, and and from the other side, I've I've been forced in decisions that I wish
in hindsight I hadn't been forced into, because at that point the decision was no.
And so the door, the decision became no, because the decision was forced.
And I don't mean that someone should give me any time if I'm not committed to them.
I just mean if I indicate that I'm not really open to a relationship right now,
don't force me to bolt the door closed on you, you know, for no reason, because I'm not taking
up any of your time. I'm not in your life. I'm not asking for anything. Don't force me to bolt
the door closed and make things awkward. Yeah, you know, yeah, really. Chris, I appreciate you,
you know, sharing your perspective there, because, you know,
it really does come down to like if you're actively pursuing.
Being married and being settled and being in a spear mate situation,
then maybe it's a little bit more. An aggressive search that you're doing
to where you're not willing to, or you don't feel like you can afford sort of the waiting,
you know, waiting around. But if you're in a different season of life where it's not necessarily,
you know, imminent, meaning that it has to be or should be the next thing, which is being married,
like is a major move in your life, and you're wanting to hold that space for someone,
then yeah, you definitely can go both ways in this, you know, I'm not suggesting you hold
space for him. I'm not suggesting you wait for him. Yeah, no, no, no. But I mean, like you're
leaving, but you're, you said, leaving the door open in terms of like, you know, like,
I'm not giving you a hard no, so that you'll never come back. But at the same time,
you've left that space. I moved on, you know, right, right, right. No, I understand that.
I'm like, that door is closed. As far as I'm concerned. It's not for me. But I didn't say
I never told them it wasn't an option because they didn't give me an answer. Yeah.
Well, and you never know, like, even like a full circle. A year down the road, you never know how
it's gonna go. You know, I mean, you know, two years down the line, because you left the door
open, it actually may work at that point in time. Yeah, many a love story has been written in a way
that was not intended, you know, like, wow, I didn't know that was gonna happen. You know,
so many love stories, you know, some of the greatest love stories are scripted that way to
where it's just like, you know, I didn't see that coming serendipitously, you know, like these
things sort of work their way, you know, around. Yeah, that's some of the beauty of it.
Yeah, we got into a deeper conversation. But Andy, you were asking about girls who you're
just kind of talking to maybe went on a date with. Sure. Um, you know, we're talking about I'm not,
I'm saying, Hey, if you just goes to me, and we just started talking on a date, I'm gonna find
out and then move on. I won't even remember you if we went on a date from two years ago, probably
like or what conversations we had. That's the reality. Like, so something two years from now,
but you might look familiar to me. Two years, a long time. So I'm not saying like, this is not
like just closing the door on somebody who I've spent some time getting to know or anything like
that. And it's not the right time. And your context of your question was, these are people
I've just started talking to, I've maybe never even met them. These are very low stakes. And
I've never met. I mean, yeah, I guess I guess I tend to treat it. I tend to treat it as high
stakes. That's part of the problem. That's probably the greatest lesson for you, Andy,
is that you're gonna have to rearrange your low and high stakes there. You can't put so many
So many chips into the pot so early in the game, you know, which causes you to be angry
That that's not healthy for you. So you have to take that a little bit slower
Take that a little bit
You know
More in context like hey, this is just the first date second date type thing. Yeah
Walk away from it and be okay with it emotionally sooner again
Getting through the nose in order to get to the yes. I really believe that's a key for you in
Finding the right one for sure
Well guys great discussion tonight. Thank you all for being here. Thank you all for sharing
I really appreciate all of your input. It's super valid and and super helpful
It's interesting to see
how everybody processes their
Their situation differently and it's and it's and it's alright. I feel I feel good about it. So
I'll just pray father. God. We thank you Lord for this for this night this time together
Bless all of these men. They're on here. They're
pursuing you
their best and
Just trying to navigate
Their life the best way possible and I just bless them right now speak life over them health and strength
I speak wisdom over them. I speak winds over them Lord
I know that you are interested in their success and that you
Have a plan for them. So let's just speak. Let that just become abundantly clear and
Able to be understood by them
So they can continue to partner with you and just see the greatness that you have for them in Jesus name I pray
Amen. Amen
Thank you guys guys. Have a great night
Hey Andy Andy
What I meant is is if you push all your chips into the pot and she's not putting any chips in the pot
It's a disparity
So if you put you put a couple of chips in and she matches your couple of chips
Then put some more in and then keep going back and forth versus all your chips. Yeah the reciprocation
That was what I meant. Just just to be clear because then you don't feel slighted because she took all your chips
That's good, that's good, thanks Mike