All right. Welcome, guys, to this is Men's Heart Check-in, February 24th, 2025. So we
hit record tonight. It's really good that we did, because sometimes we miss it. We're
all good. Look at Josh on there. He's walking. He's exercising. Look at that.
Hey, Josh. I think I just came back from the gym myself.
Are you in the gym or are you in a Walmart? Either way, it's good, Josh. We're thumbs
up on that right there. Yeah. Love it. Getting after it, getting moving. Yeah, I'm doing
good. Just as a little update, just so you know, I'm doing better with my exercise and
health routine. Just continue to do that, making better choices. And I'm down about
five pounds, five, six pounds. I went down, and then I went back up, and then I went down
again. So that's kind of like normal, I guess, what they say. And then so we're doing a little
bit more of an intentional fast this week. It's not a complete fast, but I mean, it's
fasting kind of solids. We're just doing a liquid sort of a juice thing, a little bit of a,
call it a cleanse, call it a fast, call it whatever. But it's definitely something that's
helping us roll back all this stuff. So that's good. And it's funny, because Jackie's one of
those creatures that she enjoys doing things with other people. If she wants to do something,
she wants somebody to do it with her. I want somebody to go to the ball with me. I want
somebody to go to... She's very communal like that. And so I'm the first person in line for
all of her shenanigans. So it's kind of like, will you do this with me? Will you do something?
I'm like, most of the time I say yes, but sometimes I'm just like, look,
you got to find some friends or something. I can't do everything little thing with you.
I got to say no, but I don't say no. I just, I don't know. I act like she goes,
oh, you don't want to do it. I'm like, well, babe, I would, but you need to do some things
with some other folks. So anyway, but we're doing this together.
And the style of when I work out, I don't like to be social when I work out. I like to just get in
there. I like to go inward. I like focus, almost like meditative type thing. I like to go in. I
like to concentrate on what I'm doing. Other people are in there chatting. They're trying
to socialize. I'm like, will you just hush? It's just annoying to me.
I had the experience of, I humored my brother and went to the gym with him for once. And it
was kind of nice, different. I'm usually in the zone like you are, but he was showing me some
stuff and we'll see how we work that out in the future. Yeah. It's one thing if somebody's talking
about what you're doing and like showing you some different things, whatever, versus someone
that's in there just likes to talk and they just like to chatter and they just like joke around.
And I'm like, bro, like, you're just knocking me off the whole thing. Like, I feel like it's a
serious thing to be here, you know, type thing. And I'm not trying to be overly serious. You know
me, I'm not really like a serious dude, but at that time it just kind of feels like if I'm going
to get anything out of this, I have to like concentrate. I feel like I'm doing, you know,
something important. So guys, what is going on this week? We have a good crowd here. Probably
some others that join us and hop on here. Well, I've got some good news on your heart. What do
you got questions with? What are your wins this week? I've got a win. Andy, go ahead.
So a friend of mine told me about a dating app that I never heard of before. It's called
the Unplugged Network. And it's a really good place because it's like, it's all traditional
Christians on there. And, and like, they're even open to people who are into conspiracy theories.
And it's just like the best place ever. And I'm really hitting it off with a lot of people on
there. Like they lead in their marketing with like, Hey, we're open to conspiracy theories.
Just so you know, well, it's not part of their marketing, but there is a part on your profile
where they actually ask you like one to five, how much of a conspiracy theorist are you? Oh,
no, actually zero to five. Yeah. Zero to five. It's like zero.
because I pretty much accept everything as it looks.
You know, in this modern age, that would be maybe
a demographic that actually might be helpful
in some instances.
I don't necessarily know if it's, you know,
but it might actually be helpful to kind of, you know,
match people or have some sort of compatibility on that
is definitely an issue.
It's definitely a thing, you know.
Yeah, because-
Andy, are you a seven?
I'm a four out of five.
Oh, wow.
You don't think the government's batting 1,000?
There's a lot of places we could go with that,
but the other thing-
I'm mostly a medical conspiracy theorist.
I'm a, I basically, like, don't agree with, like,
anything conventional view
as far as scientifically speaking.
So this unplugged network,
so it's just something that you joined
or you could join or you heard about?
I joined it, yeah.
And I actually have been,
I actually started talking with the woman on there.
Like, there's a spot where you can post, like,
your picture and kind of give a bio.
And this one woman was an Orthodox Christian.
She's actually just joining it.
So it's kind of interesting.
I started communicating with her.
We'll see how it goes.
I'm not, I don't know if it'll go good or bad,
but we'll see.
Is this mostly just text, like, texting or, like,
you know, typing?
It's texting right now.
Like, I mean, we just started.
So, I mean, how soon after,
how many texts until I should say,
okay, we have to do...
Well, I mean, I think our standard idea
is that you don't want to really make any, like,
connection over just text.
I mean, you want to make a connection,
but an initial enough connection to say,
hey, I'd really like to talk to you.
I'd really like to hear your voice.
I think, you know, it'd be better if we connected.
So it's kind of like, in a very natural way,
it's not, you know, I sent 10 texts,
so therefore I can't text anymore.
It's not like that.
It's just more like, hey, you know, we texted long enough.
You'd want to try to get to that conversation
sooner than later.
Yeah, and I agree with that.
So, like, do you have, like, a specific guideline
of when, like, is the right time?
No, it just has to be soon.
Okay.
I think on the relationship levels video.
I wouldn't text more than, you know, 24 hours
or, you know, 48 hours,
unless it just wasn't logistically possible
to get on the phone or a Zoom or whatever.
You know, some people have plans
and they say, I can't do that till Wednesday.
All right, well, it's Monday and fine.
That's, you know, Wednesday's fine.
But I would definitely,
if you're interested in making a connection
to find out or even just to have the conversation,
I think it's always best to try to have that
as soon as possible.
Yeah, so, good.
You're going to say, David,
I think on the relationship levels video,
it says within the three times of chatting online
or within a two-week period.
Yeah, definitely.
And again, that comes back to just sort of a logistical thing
or somebody who is, like, ready to do that.
You know, sometimes the other person
may not be ready to go there.
Three to five business days, look at that.
Yeah, standard delivery time, four to six weeks.
No, I think that's a good guideline.
Definitely, you know, as soon as possible.
So as soon as you and the other person
might be ready for that.
And then again, you know,
barring any logistical things that need to be required,
you know, I don't have time.
I literally am busy until, you know, like Thursday
is the next time I'm available.
What if she says that she's not ready
to communicate video yet?
Like, because I have had women say that before.
You just have to trust her and whatever.
But I wouldn't continue on having this texting
going back and forth for longer than a week or more,
you know, if the person's not ready,
because then that just seems like, well, you know, like,
hey, we're going to have this conversation or not,
you know, type thing.
Where you want to be like, you know,
hey, I'm not trying to push you in anything,
but you know, I'm here to make connections.
I want to talk to people, meet people.
And it's just very difficult to do that over text.
And people who would understand that would be normal
and be going like, yeah, okay, sure.
You know, but sometimes people are intimidated.
You have no idea if this is this woman's first time
on this, you know, or first time even trying
to make a connection with people.
So there could be some of that.
So you never know.
They try to lead them into that as best as possible
without being, you know, super, super, super pushy
and a jerk about it.
So, yeah.
Andy, I have some advice for you though, on that front.
Go ahead, Daniel.
So there's a, um, there's a, he was Chris Voss.
He was a hostage negotiator for the FBI and he wrote a book on negotiating
called never split the difference.
So, so when you ask this woman to transition to like a phone
call or a video chat, formulate it.
So he says, start with yes, or I'm sorry, start with no, you want to
get to a no as soon as possible.
And there's this, there's a psychology around, um, when someone is able to say
no, they feel like they have their power still.
And so what you want to do is you want to frame the question so that no.
Is, is yes.
And what I mean by that is you want to say, I would say something like this.
I would say, Hey, I've really enjoyed our text conversations.
I'd be, I'd, I'd love to hear your voice and, and have a phone call.
Uh, would you be opposed to us having a call or would you be
opposed to me getting your number?
And then the answer is no, here's my number.
Instead of saying, can I have your number?
Because then she has to say yes.
And so it's easier psychologically.
And she feels like she still has more control.
If you ask a question where no gets you the actual response that you want.
Wow.
That's interesting.
Wow.
That's kind of cool.
I never thought about that.
Yeah.
So, so yeah, I love that.
Yeah.
So frame it that way.
Would you be opposed to me getting your number or, or something like that?
But I will, I will say like on the apps, there were, I think there were a couple
of women that I wound up going out with that wanted, um, and I, and I'm thinking
of one in particular, she wanted to, she actually wanted to stay on text for like,
it felt like a couple of weeks, but she was very cautious.
So, you know, this, this woman, especially if she's new to the dating
apps and, and like the online thing, she may be very cautious right out the gate.
Yeah.
And you may have to give her, you may just have to give her
some more time and be patient.
And she was kind of far away.
So, and making a woman feel safe is, is super attractive as well.
Super attractive.
Yeah.
If you can, if you can address that and be super like, um, I say honorable
because that's sort of the Christian version, but you know, just, um, not
be so nice that you're relegated as a nice guy, but you're just courteous.
You know, it's really cool to be able to like, um, one of the greatest,
um, characteristics of men is meekness.
And, uh, Moses was this Moses was known for his meekness.
And I learned this little phrase in college because lots of times in our
modern world, meekness could be translated as weakness, and I learned
this in college, a little phrase.
It's kind of cute.
It goes, meekness is not weakness.
It's power under control.
So that's actually what my dad taught me growing up.
Yeah.
It's so good.
So when you, when you're trying to be like honorable and kind and generous
and like very tread lightly with a woman, you want to do it in a way to where it
doesn't come across as you're just this nice guy who will just would go with
anything you want to show amount of power that you have, but your power is at bay.
Your power is under control.
I love the suggestion that Daniel had as far as like phrasing
your questions that way.
That's part of like, what you say matters, like, and even how you say it.
So it's, you know, it's helpful to show, you can show a woman some
strength and some, some security and safety by, you know, sometimes like
making suggestions, like if you're going to go out on a date, Hey, would you
like to do this or would you like to do that, you know, you like, would you
like to go to dinner or would you like to like, you know, whatever the plan is.
That helps her to feel like, first of all, you've thought about what it is
that we're going to do tonight.
And you've thought of several things, not just one thing, you know, you're
not trying to like, Hey, we're going to go to a movie and this is what we're
doing because I want to go to a movie and that's what we're doing.
We're doing a movie, you know, she's like, all right, I guess this guy
wants to do a movie, you know, that that's turns off, but if you're like,
Hey, I was thinking to you, you know, we could go to dinner or we could go to a
movie, which one would you like to do?
You just have to put that in there.
Like, which one do they have to ask the question?
Not necessarily like, well, we could do a movie or we could do dinner or
we could do something else.
That sounds undecisive.
But if you're like, Hey, what would you like to do this or that, that gives her
like, Oh, this guy is concerned or at least wanting to me to be involved.
Give me a little, like, um, yeah, that's great.
You know, like give me.
choice, give me participating with it, plus it gives you the impression that you have thought
about, hey, I'm ready to do this or I'm ready to do that. You know, which would you like to do?
And then if she's an assertive woman and she's kind of like, you know, out of the box type of
things, she might go, I don't like any of those. Why don't we do this? And you're like, okay.
And what you've done is you now you've shown her that you're flexible
and that you're still a man who has made up his mind, but you're willing to be flexible
because you're like, hey, that sounds like fun. Then she's like, oh, this guy likes to have fun.
Now you're winning on several different fronts.
That make sense? Yep. Sounds good. I like that. That was a good little round robin.
All right, guys, what else? I'm just reading.
Yeah. Oh, I guess I got a win I can share.
Shared it on Supernatural Saturday. Oh, yeah. I got a jump. I had to jump off for that or on
Friday or whenever it was. Oh, no, I guess it was Friday. Yeah, it was Friday because I was up in
the mountain then. Yeah. But it was. I got accepted to use the V.A. benefits to go away to
school and a bunch of things have been lining up. From that, like they told me that they would
retroactively induct me, so all the. Personal finances I paid out of pocket to go to school
last year just to take two courses and see if I was dumb as a box of rocks or if I was going to be
able to swim on my own. All the equipment that I used to get that all done, buying a new computer
that they'd basically repay me for all of that. On the synopsis of, oh, you pretty much would
have gotten this paid for if you had just done this a year ago. So kudos to you on doing it on
your own. And yeah, you'll be repaid for this. So all that would allow me to get a new car and the
exact car and specs that I was looking into. There is one car left on the lot in Vegas
that I was going to go for. And then the home loan is like a. It's a simpler process, but at the
same time, it's also a little bit of a headache, but it's just everything just feels more streamlined.
Now, so awesome. So that's a win and then not a win, not a loss, just kind of like a funny moment
in life of dating where. With with Facebook dating, I get kind of like confused as to who I've
asked what question, you know, at what point. So like so like. I don't know if anyone else
experienced this, but I've talked to like probably. 20 different women that all have liked me back
in the last two weeks and kind of that same patiently waiting game and not trying to be
pushy or anything. And I tell. Everyone the kind of the same story of this or that,
like basic upfront, hey, just would like to go out and get to know you.
And suggested like a hike around a park. Type of thing, and. I usually do something like, oh,
let's go for coffee or let's do how about we do grocery shopping together? You know, it sprouts
if you don't know what sprouts is, it's kind of like a farmer's market, but but out here it's
an actual store. It's like. An eighth the size of Costco and so much less of a headache parking
lots. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Well, one gal, I apparently didn't ask that introductory date to
and just went straight, apparently was going straight into the hey, let's go for a hike
around the park. And I just got all capital letters back. It's like one of my pet peeves
is someone that types in all capitals. And it was just like she's like, I need to see I need to meet
you first and vet you so I know you're not a serial killer. And I'm like. And it was just like
not a serial killer like Dexter. And I just kind of like focus on it and chuckle to myself. And I
was like, I I kind of can't resist on this response because of the humor in it. I'm like,
clearly you misunderstood the concept of that show because he was vetted by numerous people
and was still a serial killer. You haven't heard back from her, but humor is humor.
You know, you're like, by the way, the premise of the show.
Actually, just in case you missed that.
Yeah.
I couldn't, I just kept laughing at myself.
I'm like, I already know this is not going to end up in a date,
but whatever.
In the two years of using that thing,
I think only two people out of ballparking that,
like 300 or 400 people that have liked me back
have actually agreed to go out on a date
or given me a phone number to message them back and forth
because their bandwidth is a little more of,
hey, I just want more time talking to you
before I meet up in person.
I'm like, yeah, it's fine.
Sounds like you have better odds on the strip.
Yeah, I don't want to go to the strip.
I know that, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, it's funny.
You brought that down to statistic
and I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Kind of like actually Vegas actually sounds more attractive
than that kind of situation.
Because I don't think it's you.
No, I think it's more of that online,
I think there's that online thing of,
like in the sense of like so many people wanting to talk
but not really wanting to meet up,
I think it's more of a sense of,
I think it was one of the paths levels of Jackie talks about,
some people just want to feel validated
or just want to feel like someone telling them
they're pretty or something and then they ghost you.
And it's just like, whatever, you know?
Yeah.
But I spent-
Social media has connected us in so many ways
but at the same way it disconnected us
in so many other ways.
So yeah. 100%.
Inherent and kind of like what's going on.
David, those are like the stats right there.
It's like a 1%.
Men have like a 1% date rate on connections,
like actually materializing into a date.
Wow.
And then it's like one out of five of those
will actually become a second date.
So.
Wow.
Yeah, I went to a foreign country
and visited a military buddy down in Columbia.
I didn't even go for the purpose of dating.
Yeah.
But his wife set me up on a date
and I went on a date every night.
Not like anything that like led
to any inappropriate behavior.
Like one night we went with someone
that wanted to go dancing at a club.
Yeah.
Like salsa dancing.
And at the time I asked a girl out that was at the mall
and I was just like,
oh, hey, she's selling like Naruto stuff and I'm a nerd.
So I enjoy anime and just started talking
and then ended up taking one of those like cable car things
that goes like 50 or 60 miles through like the tree line
only to find out five minutes into the date
she was terrified of enclosed spaces.
Wow.
Gosh.
Those are some of the greatest setups
is the wife of one of your friends.
Yeah.
Sometimes those are sometimes some of the most reliable.
Thank you, Daniel, for those two first date ideas.
I like those.
Those are actually two good ones.
Arcade is, that'd be kind of a cool one.
Especially if you've got nostalgia like for video games.
You get to see like if she can laugh and have fun
and like, you know, there's like low stakes.
There's always a bunch of variety and-
If she's competitive.
Yeah, you can see how competitive she is
and maybe it's attractive, maybe not, you know.
Is she gonna go nuts on Street Fighter II and destroy you?
Never know.
I mean, that'd be a huge great play.
Some hidden skill and talent that she's like,
yeah, I played this game once or twice.
Or if she's like no fun at all, then now you know.
Yeah, there's that.
And so that's a good one.
I like that.
All right, who else has got something?
Got a win, you got a question,
got a concern, what's going on?
Any things that we could,
we'll pray at the end, of course.
Just want to go around doing that too.
But what's going on?
I heard earlier too, David,
you're kind of dealing with your mom
and that situation, take care of her.
So that's honorable, that's good.
But we're lifting you up in that
because sometimes that can be challenging
depending on what the situation is.
But she's not ill, is she?
Is she ill or not?
Well, she's getting more,
the problem is she gets confused
and then she messes up her medicine
then doesn't take it.
Oh, I see.
And she ends up in a hop.
And this has been a cycle
that's getting more and more frequent
over the last three years.
I see.
But I mean, she turned 80 back in June, so.
Right, right, okay.
Yeah, but one of the things that was encouraging,
all of you were able to be
on Sunday night's prophetic call,
whether you were,
or at least listen to the replay if you weren't,
but there was even like a specific word
for people that were taking care of aged parents
or caregivers, basically.
Yeah.
So that, I mean, that piece was like really.
Specific for work, but um, there's a lot of good things on that. I mean
I mean obviously most of the things that were shared were
for most people so
Yeah
No, I I yeah, I mean i'm dealing with the same thing with my dad. He's 84
um, he's living in a
You know, um, he's living in a uh retired, you know situation no medical issues per se
Um, but just the just the aging part of it, you know
yeah, it can be challenging and I got to remind him of some things and here and there but
He doesn't have a medical condition per se. But um, yeah, so I feel you on that. So
uh, we just support you on that pray that
things get clear and things, you know, you get some help with that as well and
The grace and peace that goes along with that is too
Um
Did you have any I had a david? Oh david henshaw
Okay
Do you have anything else to share?
Um, yeah, I it's just kind of a full pot and i'm just gonna be honest with you guys
But like someone reached out to me on facebook after a friday call, but it was like weeks ago
but like they're not really someone that I find attractive and
Just to feel like just so they didn't feel like rejected like I accepted their friend request
But then I never said anything and I think that actually caused more harm than good
So like in the future, you know, i'm just still trying to navigate this stuff. Um
Yeah, it's because you know, you need to do like more
More hard work with that. The problem is like, you know, my last relationship started online with facebook
And it turned out to be something that was not what I thought it was and it was yeah, etc
So that's that's the problem
um
Yeah, so is that somebody within our community or somebody? Um,
The most recent one somebody from our community or just somebody random on facebook
Yeah, it was someone on our community. That's like very involved. They're almost on every call
You know that are you know, both women as far as no late fridays potential saturday, you know
um
Yeah, they're at least on those every time sometimes they're on sunday nights as well
I mean, you know accepting a facebook friend request
even late
Can just be a just a gesture of just like oh, hey, sorry, you know accepting this like it's no big deal
It's like no commitment, you know, it's just another friend on facebook
just so but but if you know, only if you think that you know
It's something that um
Uh, yeah, I have an issue with over reading things sometimes that's the other problem
I mean I accepted it, but I never they never sent a message and I never sent a message back
I just accepted the request so they didn't feel like they were rejected
And
Did you so you sent her the facebook request or the no, no, she sent it to me first
She sent it to you and you did not accept it yet
No, no, I have accepted it. Oh, I never said but I never said anything
She never said any message any messages and I never sent any message back
You just sent a friend request
Okay. Yeah, maybe it's not maybe it's not an issue at this point
Mike, what do you got? Yeah, there's your hand there
So, um, I had a similar thing. Well, I mean I I don't know what to do like, you know
That's why I think one of my biggest questions jack is what to do in those situations, right?
but i've accepted I get a lot of facebook friend requests and
a lot of people I just figure because i'm posting stuff for relationships that like
They can glean on something that I post or whatever, you know
So but I actually had somebody i'm like, you know, i'm really not interested and she's like, oh i'm not either
She said just wanted to connect so, you know, I don't I don't know what the um
Then there's been other ones where I was like, you know, um, i'm not interested but I really um, I feel honored right and so
Yeah, but some um, we talked about like a week a week a week or two ago about a man being with the plan
Right, like and you were sharing like with the two different date ideas like hey
um
The other thing I wanted to encourage you guys to be thinking ahead. I mean if you're in a marriage-minded place
Um be putting away money for a ring. I have a ring fund. I have a I have a ring slash marriage fund
Awesome. I got like 12 grand in it right now
And should that come but you know, I just want to encourage you do it now
Right and have it ready
So when you do find somebody you can move and you're not and then and you because you
Last thing you want to do is enter a relationship with debt
Right or you know, and not every woman wants to wants a 68k ring who knows right like, you know, like
But like you can use that to invest in your future marriage
yeah, like but like
Be a man with a plan and and plan ahead and like put the money aside
I mean, even if you take it out of your have it direct deposit into a different thing
So you never see it
You know like and just and good idea. It's a good suggestion
um, I will say that when in
In the situation when I met Jackie, I was not at the top of my game financially at the moment.
I was driving a 94 Buick Century. I just got my cars repossessed the year before,
going through bankruptcy, house went into foreclosure, all that kind of stuff.
And that didn't seem to extremely bother her too much. She's just not that kind of a person that
she leads with all that, I got to know all of your background, all that kind of stuff.
But anyway, it was pretty interesting because there was a moment when we were getting to know
each other. We'd already known each other for about eight months. And it was kind of that time
where it's kind of like, hey, if we're going to move forward in this, there really isn't any reason
to put it off. We didn't have any, it wasn't like we're going to plan this huge big wedding
or anything like that. And she kind of got up the nerve to basically approach the, hey,
is there an engagement coming soon type thing? She didn't say it like that. She just sort of
indicated just very gentle, like girls do. And she was surprised by my answer. My answer,
which was, yeah, I mean, I didn't say yes, we're going to get engaged or yes, I plan to ask you to
marry me. But I just said, well, I have a ring. And she was like, oh, okay. She knew my financial
situation. She knew I, but she's like, the fact that she just knew that I already had a ring,
I didn't say it was for her. I didn't say I was going to ask her. I didn't say I was going to
get engaged. I just, the fact she knew I had a ring and it wasn't like just an old ring I had,
I'm just to be clear. It was a ring I had prepared. So I love that you said that Mike,
because that happened with me too. And that just happened to be a thing that kind of like,
she was like, oh, all right. Like, okay, this guy, you know, he's got some things going right
here and thought ahead. So that can be very helpful. Did you purchase that ring as kind
of an activation, like a faith activation exercise? I kind of saw, well, I had just kind of
wanted to be prepared. It just happened to be that I was preparing for that prior to her
sort of, you know, really bringing that forward as a point of our conversation. So yes,
I had prepared it, not necessarily as a fake, that activation. So I was pretty sure that I
was eventually at some point going to ask her to marry me, but I just did it ahead of time.
And it was ended up being a blessing like that. Because sometimes that's not really,
characteristically me. I'm not too far ahead of a guy, but in that instance, it's just kind of
like, I don't know, maybe it was Holy Spirit led or something, but I had had a diamond
that I already had and I had got it set. And so it was a different setting. It wasn't like,
you know, something that was like a, I wasn't trying to like recycle the ring or anything,
you know. So I had to have it set. So there was just a moment I had to go
to the store and like a week turnaround or whatever it was.
But I will tell you that when we had our Austin retreat a couple of years ago, we had about 30
women come. And one of the things we did was a faith activation like that. We went to a bridal
store, which women love to go try on stuff and shop and all that kind of stuff. And we had this
whole event. We set it up with champagne and charcuterie board. It was kind of like a morning
type sort of like event. And we had made a connection with a lady that was serendipitous,
how that connection even made Holy Spirit made. And she was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I have
a bridal shop. We're like, no way. This was a month before the retreat. And Jackie's like,
I would love to bring a group of women and over and do an activation where they could try on
dresses. Like everybody could try on it. Everybody gets to try on a dress type thing, you know,
and have like a morning thing. And if all these women come over and do that, she goes, Oh, that
would be great. And she, you know, so she added her people into it, had them ready to go and had
them ready to fit and do all this kind of stuff. And we had 30 ladies we brought into a bridal
gallery and they could look at the dresses and we took pictures and everybody was so excited
because women love that kind of stuff. And seven ladies.
who had no prospect, didn't even have a boyfriend,
didn't have, obviously were not engaged,
seven different women bought dresses that day.
And as like a prophetic act of faith,
they had the wherewithal, they fell in love with it.
They're like, oh my gosh, I love this dress.
This is amazing.
Of course, they had all these ladies around
and tell them, oh, you look beautiful in that,
or no, try this other one on or whatever, right?
They had all the feedback they needed
as if their wedding party was there.
So like this whole bridal party that we're having,
and they literally bought a dress.
And one of them, we actually secretly,
Jackie and I bought it for her as an act of faith.
You know, we were just sewing back into these ladies
and it was just incredible.
It was just this awesome moment.
And then the store, the lady that owned the store,
she started throwing in things.
She goes, oh, well, all of you that bought a dress,
I'm gonna throw in like a veil for each one of you.
And then here's these things,
like these other accoutrements to go with,
you know, dresses and all that.
And they were just so blessed by that.
And I'm telling you what, I think there's at least four
or five of those ladies that bought those seven dresses
that literally got married within the last several years.
That was several years ago when we had that event.
And they literally wore those dresses to their wedding,
probably two, three years later than that event.
And it wasn't just like one or none.
It was like, I think, I know for sure four,
there might've been in five of those seven
that literally wore those dresses.
And a lot of those ladies in that bridal party back then
are now married.
You know, just their level of like,
and there were so many stories,
I could tell you so many stories
about like what they were going through
and what they were experiencing and just like no hope,
no, you know, light on the horizon,
no sense of like any prospects.
And it wasn't just like no prospects,
there were certain things that happened in relationships.
Some of them had been divorced, some of they were,
and there were so many stories that just seemed so unlikely
for them to even be married at any time in the near future.
And here they were buying dresses as an act of faith
to do that, so pretty amazing.
So the fact that you brought that up,
Daniel, as an act of faith, it can be very powerful.
So David and David,
you have more to add to this conversation.
Yeah, I did.
I was just gonna touch on your point
of like buying that ring.
I guess one of the things I've been really struggling with
is just as a man, it's just so like debilitating
meaning if you're like struggling financially.
And the whole reason why I'm in that thing
is because that's last so-called relationship,
you know, that basically was completely due to me.
And I'm basically like starting out all over again.
I feel you.
So it's just like, I mean, do I move forward
or do I put on the brakes?
Do I move forward or put on the brakes?
Yeah.
It's a lot of-
Move forward in relationship, you mean?
Yeah, yeah, because it's just like,
I know you don't-
Well, I mean, I just told you my story.
Yeah.
And my story financially was the same exact thing.
Like my wife and I, we were two income family
and we lived in a $300,000 house,
which at the time in 2003, 2005,
300,000 in Ohio bought a big house.
Now, not so much in certain markets and even,
but I mean, we were living the American dream,
two incomes and we needed the two incomes
in order to make the thing.
So it wasn't like I was like making a bunch of bucks,
but still.
And I'm telling you what,
when she said she wanted to get divorced
and then we were estranged for like a year and a half,
two years almost from that situation,
I'm still living in this house
that she just walked away from.
I don't have her income to now have to share the bills with
and everything.
I'm like divide the income in half, right?
So it was just a matter of time before bankruptcy,
like full on bankruptcy,
house into foreclosure,
live there as long as I can.
Literally, I'm not kidding.
We both worked at a ministry at the same time.
During that time, we were still employed
by a very, very large church ministry, television ministry.
And we were at work at the church in staff meetings
while our cars were literally being repossessed
in the same day, both of our vehicles.
So trust me when I say,
I know what it's like to like not be prepared
for the next relationship financially
because I had not even.
I've been close to coming out of that by the time that I had
that whole relationship ended, estranged, meet my neighbor.
And then eight months later, marry her.
Well, so trust me, give the grace for things.
Yeah. But at the same time, like if you don't
like if you have the ability, set yourself up to win.
Right.
Like, you know, I mean, like so I would you know, if the Lord's anointed it
and appointed it like my my first marriage, I had like.
Fifteen hundred bucks for a ring, right, it didn't have real diamonds,
let's put it that way, but I had it custom made and she loved it.
Right. And so like and we talked about like an anniversary,
I was going to do it for the I thought about doing it for the 20th,
giving her actually a real ring. Right.
But so I just I wanted to I didn't want to if you're not in a place to do it,
then, you know, the Lord's grace can be is within it.
But if you are set yourself up to win and that's that's kind of my point.
Yeah. Sorry. I didn't want to bring any condemnation.
And that's good.
I appreciate that.
Mike and saying that. No, it's true.
But like, do what you can do.
And the other thing is this like
there was a ring I gave to Jackie a couple of years ago that
there's a whole nother story about the ring I originally gave her.
But I'll say that for another time.
And there was a time where she didn't have a wedding ring again.
And I actually bought a Morganite stone.
So I just kind of went like a beautiful stone, but cheaper route.
So like it wasn't necessarily a diamond.
And there's some women that like that doesn't bother them at all.
There's some women like, no, it's got to be a diamond.
It's got to fit just inside my nostril or whatever.
Like, I'm like, OK, if that's your girl,
whatever, and you got it wherewithal to do it, fine, whatever.
But I mean, like a lot of women are just
like they're very sentimental about, you know, they can they can there's
different ideas like my daughters, both of my daughters who are in their 20s.
They're both married.
They don't have diamonds as their, you know, engagement stone.
You know, they wanted they're like they're more conscientious.
There's Gen Zers, whatever.
They have different ideas about how the world goes.
And they're like, no diamonds. That's terrible.
Blood diamonds. That's horrible.
Like, oh, that can't do that.
And we got to go do like, you know,
what is it called?
Factory made Zirconia, the lab, the lab grown ones,
yeah, lab grown diamonds, of course, those are cheaper.
Morganite stones, you know, so, you know,
there's a lot of ways to skin a cat, I guess what I'm trying to say.
So in other words, my story tells you that you don't have
to have it all together in order to have a successful relationship.
But at the same time, to Mike's point,
you're you're doing what you can do, right?
You're trying to like, hey, let's there's a thousand ways
to get out of a hole financially, there's so much information on the Internet.
It's so overwhelming.
There's so much ways like make money these days, do that kind of stuff.
There's a hustle out there.
There's a lot of smart ideas and a lot of people doing a lot of smart things.
Just, you know, get educated about it,
do your best and employ some old fashioned like saving financial tactics.
And eventually, you know, with that, you'll come out of it.
You'll be surprised at where you can be in a couple of years,
just be like, OK, Lord, I'm in this situation,
but I got to change my life and I need some help.
And just have somebody just believe that God is going to bring somebody to you
that say, hey, let me help you start a business, let me help you with your
finances, let me show you how you can build wealth, whatever it is.
We don't talk a lot about that on this on this group, but, you know,
I'm a part I'm connected to a lot of things that are, you know,
wealth building.
Financial type of stuff that.
Can be done, so.
I just say that for encouragement that there are definitely answers out there.
Yeah, I mean, it's
kind of thing there on the point of do I have to declare bankruptcy?
I think God's saying, oh, just trust me, you know,
what I can, what I can absolutely what I have now, you know?
Absolutely.
There was a comment earlier,
Zach and Chris, you mentioned Zach, something to sharing and you thumbs it up,
Zach, is that something you're wanting to share?
I don't know what even what it was that you post in the app, but.
Yeah, I mean, really just more, I guess, like a follow up from last week.
That's right.
Because I know I had mentioned
this really kind of feeling a lot of frustration and disappointment from
some things that happened in the weekend and yeah, between that night and I think
it was it was Wednesday or Thursday that I had had.
had, um, you know, just some really powerful times of prayer with God.
Um, and I don't, I don't remember if Jackie talks about like inner healing
stuff in the heart work, um, but inner healing something that I've, uh, Been
made aware of and like done through like other freedom materials and things like
that, um, where basically like, yeah, you ask God, like, what is the root of, you
know, this lie or whatever it is.
And generally a memory will come back to mind.
And like you ask God, like, okay, where were you in this memory?
Um, that sort of thing.
And, um, so I think I even kind of posted it a little bit, uh, on, um,
the most recent, like the check-in post as well, but basically like there were
two lies that really kind of came out through those moments, um, and, you
know, succinctly put, it was basically that like, God is a liar.
He can't be trusted and that God's not as good as he says he is.
Um, and obviously those are easily refuted with scripture, but you know,
that's the thing about lies is they're easy, easy to, they're, we
can be easily deceived by them.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, and so, uh, really like the second one, I think for me was really
powerful because it actually took me back to, um, a childhood memory where,
you know, I had this toy and it had a squeaker in it and I was, you know,
jumping on it cause I wanted the loudest squeak possible.
And my mom was like, Hey, if you jump on it, you're going to break it.
And, you know, I just completely disregarded her, kept jumping on it.
And guess what?
It broke and guess what?
I was sad that it broke, but that's the result of my own actions.
Um, and really that, uh, what kind of God showed me through that memory
specifically was that, you know, as a kid, as a child, like we, we don't
always know what is better, but as we grow up, like we have, the one of
the things we have to learn is we have to learn that God trusts early.
We have to trust that God has our good intentions at heart.
Yeah.
You know, in everything that he says.
Um, and there was a moment where the Holy spirit even kind of tied it to
something, uh, a training that I had done back in October and it was, uh, one
of the sections on that was on identity.
And I don't know if you guys have heard this, uh, framing of identity, but a lot
of the ways that we look at identity, um, we look at it from the perspective
of what do we want to be and what do we need to have and do in order to achieve
that so like we've, we spend most of our time and energy on what are we doing so
that we can have the things so that we can be whatever it is that we want.
Um, but in the kingdom, the way it works is our being is actually defined by God.
And out of that being, we overflow into our doing so that we can have
the life that God desires for us.
And so it was just a great moment for the Holy spirit to call, call,
pop that, sorry, call back to mind.
Some things that I had learned a couple of months ago and just, you know,
get back into alignment, like, okay, God, you know, my, who I am is unchangeable.
You define it.
And you know, I don't need to, my life is not shifted or
changed by these outside things.
It is defined by you.
And out of that is the overflow of my life.
That's so good.
And yeah, no, exactly.
The heartwork just to be clear.
Um, so inner healing is a, is a broad, you know, like, uh, current topic
and Christian community right now.
And, um, it has been for the last couple of decades.
And, um, but what we feel like is heartwork is a certain protocol
within the space of inner healing.
Make sense.
That's kind of how we look at it.
Um, the way we, um, you know, the way the heartwork came about was, you know,
Jackie did, um, 20 plus years of traditional son of vocational ministry,
mostly with women, and then also went through her own healing, inner healing
process, and this was a, just as sort of a unique perspective, um, a protocol
that God gave her to say, Hey, this is how you process your heartwork.
So what we feel like heartwork is it's a protocol and it's a tool
to a way to process inner healing.
There's several other different protocols out there.
Um, but we definitely deal with, you know, the first section of
courses, what is the heart?
And, um, we talk about what is the difference between.
you know, the inside of you and the part of you that has all of this area that needs to be healed.
So we talk about what is the heart. The second area or the second section in that book is we're talking about lies.
So we definitely bring up the whole lies thing. And thirdly, with regard to identity,
what we teach in heart work is that
there definitely is an identity that is your most ideal identity, your most authentic, genuine identity,
which is the identity that God has given you in terms of especially as a child of God, son or daughter of God.
But then more specifically, the things that he fashioned within you and your soul, your makeup.
We believe that you're made up of three parts, three parts that are reflective of the identity of God and made in his image.
We talk about the body, soul and spirit. We talk about how the body is the physical temple, the flesh that you live in,
that you are a spirit. The essence of who you really are is a spirit.
You live in a body and you possess a soul and your soul is made up of your mind, will and your emotions.
So these are the repository, your mind and your emotions.
Your mind especially is the repository of all the experiences that you have witnessed and felt and gone through through your whole life.
Your soul is the unique part of you that makes up how you're called and what your characteristics are and the different things that God's created and fashioned within you.
And that's the part of it that is divided in a sense, that has sort of like two sides, as Paul said,
that you are constantly going back and forth between the spirit and the flesh, you know, the spirit and the flesh.
And so in that sense, the flesh isn't the physical flesh.
It's your unredeemed, sort of like fallen state that is in the process of being redeemed,
starting with the moment that you realize you have a need for a savior, you accept that process.
I just explained a whole lot in that whole thing.
That's kind of the theology.
And so identity goes with that because identity, I love how you brought that up.
It's like identity, if it's in the sense of like, what do you want to be?
I want to be like that.
I want to be this way.
You could have a picture of an identity that is not congruent with who God's made you to be.
So if you aspire to be something that you're really not, that doesn't really help you to get your identity.
What helps you to get your identity is to realize that God's created within you a uniqueness.
And you stepping into the fullness of that is the best version of yourself.
So that's kind of how we explain it.
And I love that you're getting that revelation in that because that's what it all comes down to.
Yeah, no, like even just kind of on like a practical level, you know, to put some legs under it.
You know, it's like if if the life that we desire, like who we want to be is somebody that is loved or accepted, you know, if that is like our end goal and we don't understand that that is the foundation, you know, we're going to do whatever to get whatever.
Like, you know, we're going to sell our soul.
We're going to like, you know, shirk on our character, all those other things to get the fame, to get the money, to get the wealth, whatever it is that we think is going to lead to a life of being loved and accepted.
Whereas when we begin by being loved and accepted by God, it is that overflows into, OK, now we can share that love, share that acceptance with the world around us and have that community and things that we desire in the first place.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's and that's the reason why actually in the first section of HeartWorth, that's why we start with surrender, because there has to become a point of surrender that says, OK, God, I know what you have is the best for me.
And and some people are still struggling with that concept because they're like, oh, I don't know.
I don't know if I trust God, you know, type thing.
So but there's there's this point where you don't have to be completely like trusting enough to to surrender.
You can surrender without a certain level of trust.
And I don't mean that's ideal.
I just mean saying that you can come to a point where like, I'm not really sure, but I want to surrender to this process.
I want I want to be willing to be made willing.
Does that make sense? It's like when you're excited about it, like, hey, I'm willing to do this.
I'm all ready to go, you know, like and some people are like,
I don't know, I've really have some trauma, some pain, some hurt centered around this whole like development thing.
So I'm willing, but I'm sort of willing to be made willing type thing.
So some people got to start there.
And that's where surrender process is so important, because.
it gives you the right sort of like,
what do you call it?
The coordinates to try to start out on your trajectory.
Huh?
Trajectory.
Trajectory, coordinates, yeah, exactly.
So that you're not like,
it's one thing to like step off a couple degrees.
It's when you get further out there,
you're gonna be further off from your point, right?
So like the surrender part of it is very important
because then it gives you the ability and the promise
to be able to work with Holy Spirit
to bring you into your most authentic identity.
So love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for bringing that up.
And I love that you're like having these revelations
because super powerful.
Yeah, no, it's just at the end of the day,
like it's things that I think we all kind of know,
if we're in our word and spending time with God,
but it's just, it's those moments of realignment,
the Holy Spirit's like, hey, you got in that track,
let's get back.
Yeah, and the reason too, same point,
like good point on that,
because the reason we feel like HeartWorks is a protocol
is because it's a tool that can be used over and over again.
When you go through the initial HeartWork process,
it takes some time to really unpack some things.
But once you get good at being like,
okay, I'm coming back to myself, I feel some pain.
Pain is an indicator that something needs to be
like attended to.
So you're like, okay, where's this pain?
It's connected to a memory.
There must be something there.
Lord, I surrender to this process.
I wanna do my HeartWork in this way.
Holy Spirit, show me what's going on in this moment.
And then once you have that revelation,
you can forgive, you can repent,
you can just release it and then be healed in it.
And that process can take five minutes.
Once you have this protocol down to like,
okay, this is what I do.
Doesn't have to be like a season of like several days
or a week of going through a process.
It can be just like, okay,
I'm gonna really do some HeartWork around this.
And my wife reminds me of this all the time.
She goes, I use some HeartWork to do around that.
And I'm like, all right.
I gotta go in my prayer closet for about 10 minutes
and change my state, deal with this moment of HeartWork
because there's some pain around this.
So thank you for bringing that up.
I love that.
David, I had a quick question.
Yes, sir.
Well, two actually.
One was for when Jackie, yeah.
When Jackie talks about people that are on the team,
like on whatever event, like for example,
Supernatural Saturday or Sunday Night Prayer,
do any of those ladies have access
to these video calls with us that are within the,
don't know a better way to say this,
the last year single pool of possible dates?
Not really, because our team,
I mean, anybody that would have access
to like these recordings would be only our staff people,
the people that are paid.
I mean, that's-
Okay, and those people are not-
Five people.
It was just something that was an anxious-
They're all married except for one.
Okay, it was just an anxious thought that kicked on.
When we say the team too,
we do have a host of moderators and some volunteers
and some people that lead prayer times.
And those are people that have just,
they're part of the community,
but they wouldn't have access to any of these recordings.
It was just an anxious thought.
She told me a recent thing about getting spotlighted
and said, oh, hey, so-and-so was asking about you.
And I was like, oh, that's awesome.
And then part of that anxious attachment,
I haven't shared anything too personal on this call yet,
but I was planning to,
because ultimately, you know,
like once I got a further understanding
of level four and five, it's like, yeah,
you gotta know where all the bodies are buried.
Haven't killed anyone, but still, you know,
it's stuff that I plan to share in the future
with you guys before.
Like that was also part of the VA process
was going through some of the trauma
I went through overseas.
And it was, yeah, it affected me for like weeks after,
like still feeling the anxiety from it all.
And then the other question was,
has anyone heard from Abram?
No.
And I was thinking about him earlier in this call, actually,
if I'm gonna reach out to him and see what's up with him.
So I will do that.
Awesome.
That was it.
That was it for me.
Other than Monty Python joke.
in the chat.
Nice.
I'm coming up to that right now here.
I'm seeing this, like, you guys are having
your own conversation over here.
Daniel, do you have anything?
Is your hands raised or is it just from?
Yeah, I've got it up.
Go ahead.
Yeah, and you know what?
I think I will piggyback, like, I do,
and maybe I'm the only one, but I think,
oh, sorry, let me put that down.
I think, I do sense kind of a hesitancy to share too much,
not knowing, like, where, knowing that this session
is recorded and kind of posted online for posterity.
Well, it's not posted online for posterity, actually.
It's not even, well, I mean, everything's online, I guess,
but it's on our app.
It's been, regardless of being recorded, you know.
Just so you know, it's not posted on Facebook.
Well, but it's on the, it's on the men's,
it's on the men's thing.
It's on our chat.
Yeah.
It's in our app, excuse me.
And our app is kind of in a closed loop sort of situation
as far as the servers.
Yeah, yeah.
It was definitely, yeah.
Oh, sorry.
Oh, no, go ahead, Dave.
I was just saying, it was actually why I didn't even
interact with the app for the longest time
because I thought other ladies were on the app
that would see me writing anything on my updates.
I'm like, mm-mm, nope.
Yeah.
Well, the other thing too is that group,
just so you know too, that group is,
you can't just join a group.
You actually have to, we have to let you into a group
or there's an automation.
Yeah, I know they're silent, right?
Yeah, they're definitely, yeah, for sure.
And you can't just like go around the app.
So like, if you look at my app, I have all these groups
because I have every group that's imaginable.
And there's a handful of people,
probably three or four people that have that
sort of same level, but the community at large,
they would only have the group that's pertaining to them.
So, you know.
Yeah.
What was I gonna bring up?
Oh, I think maybe, and maybe I know we're kind of,
maybe this is too big of a can of worms
to open up this late in the call, but I think,
and maybe I'm the only one, but one of the things
I tried really hard to do was learn from my failed marriage
and essentially not just jump back into selecting,
showing up the same and selecting the same.
Right.
And, you know, I think a lot of things exist
kind of on a continuum.
And so I'm trying to find that like sweet spot
in the middle of like selecting well.
And so I think last time I didn't really know
what to look for, what red flags looked like.
And I really didn't select well for myself.
And then I know other people, like I know friends
who have been single for a long time
and it's really easy to say,
it's really easy to kind of look from the outside in
and say, okay, bro, you're being way too picky.
Like you're making a lot of mountains out of molehills.
You know, your selection criteria is so limiting
that I don't think that woman exists.
And if you do find her, it's, you know,
she may not be into you.
Like you're so selective, you're too selective.
And so then that, I guess I'm just looking for like,
maybe if you have some general guidelines
on how to be wise in that middle ground
and like discerning and know like,
what are your non-negotiables?
What are your negotiables?
You know, like maybe there are things that are bugging me
that are a result of my own immaturity
and not at like a actual disqualifier.
And then, you know, so like,
that's a own revealing for my own heart work.
Yeah, does that make sense?
Kind of where I'm coming from.
Yeah, no, I know.
And it totally makes sense because here's,
I have this feeling that men and women,
especially good men and women of faith
all have a tendency to be way more in their way
in that area than even a lot of other people.
But I think that's also true of just men and women right now
in this age that we live in.
So it's a global, very modern problem, right?
Just humanity problem right now, okay?
And then boil it down to sort of like
a Christian community type of thing.
I think there are other things and layers
in sort of like the religious nature,
the Christian nature, like that are added on to,
you know, this problem of like,
all the things got to line up.
And so we battle that a lot within this community
But at the same time, it's true
You know when you have been down the road in a previous marriage for instance or even a previous long-term relationship
It is very like yeah, it's very
Off-putting to be like, oh my god, what if I'm what if I make this wrong choice, you know?
What if I make the same mistake that I made before blah blah blah. Um, I
Have had the thought
Now being married again during my second marriage well into it
Going back thinking about like what happened
Like why did I marry my my wife to begin my first wife to begin with we got married young
Early 20s. I'm not saying that's bad or good, but I got married young and I'm like
Yes, where were all the people in my life
That said hey
Did you ever think about this? Did you think where were all the roadblocks?
Where was my friends and family who showed up to the wedding?
Where was anybody that said
Hey, are you?
Are you two really like designed to like?
Go together be married that kind of stuff like question it even question it
I'm not saying that there was a lot of signs that like as we were in a very like
Church community. It was kind of like we've gone together for a long time. It was kind of like the next best thing
It's just kind of like it's funny because here's here's the sort of the church thing in church culture
That's normal that happens all the time
but I know a lot of stories of people that got married young like that and
They didn't work out for whatever reason
Okay, I'm not saying they married the wrong person
But there's a lot of that
Like there's a level of maturity that maybe they weren't able to or didn't feel like was necessary to walk into
Before they made that choice on
the other side of that coin
There's equally as many or probably more stories of people who got married young and they just made it
They made it work
Why?
Nothing to do with Christianity nothing to do with church. They were just people that said, you know, what that's the way this thing works
So in a large part the marriage relationship is definitely like the most refining the most
difficult the most challenging the most rewarding and the most legacy building relationship you'll ever have and
The best thing you can do is
To be all in and make that work
so
that being said
That doesn't mean you have to make the best choice because this person lined up and you're matched up on
24 different variables and you made the best choice and now it is your ability to work
There's so many people that had to work through so many things. This is the reason we say that you know
Healed or hurt in relationship healed a relationship hurt and family healed in family because there are things Jackie says is all the time
there are things about your refinement your maturity your your relationship that aren't going to be worked out until you're in it and
That's where many people look back and go oh my god, this is terrible
It's happening again, or I didn't expect this to be that's way that's actually that's actually germane to
The point of relationship
You know the Bible even says it that this is a this is an odd thing who could who can discern it
This is a this is a mystery
right
Talking about the relationship between a husband and a wife as compared to Jesus and the church
Like why does Jesus put up with our crap the same reason that we in marriage would put up with our crap with our other
part person
Because there's a greater thing involved and it's easy to say that. Oh, we're just doing this for love
But to walk that through that is challenging
that's refining that's hard and
so I'm not saying I
Mean like if you want to go with love conquers all it does. That's absolutely a truth as
long as you
Want it to and allow it to?
So
It's hard to put rules and regulations and guidelines around that making that best choice because it's like in
one sense
I'm just like why are you making this so difficult?
I will tell you my prayer before I met Jackie and I've shared this before I
just come through the whole thing of the estrangement and the divorce and it wasn't necessarily
Fixed on paper yet because of the court system where we're going through all that stuff, but I was divorced estranged from my wife for two years
Before I met Jackie and right before I met her
I just moved into the place that was next door to her when that's where we met, right and
I moved into that place. I was like, well Lord, I guess this is it. I'm a single dad
I've got kids and I've got a ministry job that I'm still working at
I said Lord, I don't want to be single the rest of my life
But at the same time I've got these kids and I've got this ministry career that I'm doing
And so if I meet somebody, I mean she's this person has to love Jesus. This person has to have their own
relationship with you I
Can't sacrifice my kids for the sake of this other person and I've got this lifestyle
That I can't afford to change right now. Like I don't have anywhere else to go
And that was it
It was like that was if that was my list that was my list
And I don't know how specific you think that may or may not be but that was basically my prayer and it's just like okay
Lord, I just I don't know and
Then it wasn't like within a month later or something like that. That's when I met Jackie
And I was like I was struck by her beauty and I was intrigued by her
But I didn't I wasn't that it wasn't the first thing. I thought wasn't like I'm gonna marry this woman. I mean, I wasn't like that
We became friends developed it came over time, but it did come pretty quickly
And there was just a providence. That's the only thing I know how to describe it
You know probably some of our other details of our story there was this moment we said, you know, I
Think we're probably gonna get married and that was the strangest thing
Why would we say that to each other? Why would we go on a walk and look at each other and go?
Yeah, I think I think it probably you know with us. I ended up, you know, and that's getting married. We weren't even dating
You're like what the heck like why would you say that like what did that even come from?
And I'm like, I don't know. I
Can't tell you if that was just I can tell I can spiritually tell you
I can tell I can spiritual eyes and go
Oh, that was the Lord and is okay
The words came out of my mouth and I can I can I can make that sound really great
But honestly with you that that's just what happened those are the facts
So I guess I'm just trying to share with you the raw facts
For you to make it make it for whatever it makes sense to you because for me to give you a guideline to say
Well when this happens or when that's the thing or within this we know this is an indicator for whatever
Because this is totally different for everybody. It's like everybody's salvation story. I am blown away
About stories I
hear about when people really met Jesus for the first time and
Just the unorthodox way it happened
You know and I'm like that's so awesome. God is so amazing how he just reveals himself to people in ways that are just so
Not the script not the plan not the way it's supposed to work
right
so it's kind of like, you know in one sense you just have to you you're you're on this journey and
Like my advice to young men is it's like hey, do you like this girl? Are you really into her?
I mean, is she just I mean does she like excite you, you know, and so like I just can't stop thinking about her
I'm really excited about her, you know, like yeah, I'm so totally attracted to her. Yeah, and then like does she love Jesus?
Well, yeah, she loves Jesus, you know like
This I didn't ask
whether she has her theology straight or whether she's a
Conspiracy theorist or whether she who she voted for in the last election. I'd ask anything
I just said does she love Jesus? Does she have a personal relationship with the Lord? Yes or no?
You know none of that other crap and then it's like are you are you guys like
Headed in the similar direction in life
Yeah, you know, I think so and
Then it's like what more do you need?
Then it then literally at that point. It just becomes like Jackie says it literally becomes a yes until it's a no. I
Mean that's if there's any guidelines, I mean, that's it
You know, I chime in for a sec
I chime in for a sec
yeah, man, because this is kind of my wheelhouse like as far as relational things right and
One of the things that I never paid attention to was my nervous system
Yeah, when you're with somebody now, this can be trauma related
I just so but it is also one of those indicators
Like if you find somebody that you're at peace with and you dig them and your nervous systems chill, right? That's a good sign
Now, if you're there and you're agitated for some reason or you're nervous, what I mean
is if you come in there, if you feel like you're walking on eggshells, that's an indicator
of something.
It could be of your past or the fact that your past is intersecting this relationship
or they're manipulative and you feel like they're a bomb.
One of the things I just encourage you, make sure that you pay attention to your nervous
system and how you feel around them.
That's one of the dangerous things about the swoon, like when somebody love bombs you,
you're not listening to all, you're like, this is amazing.
But you're not listening to, hey, my gut instinct is telling me something.
I think, yeah, Jesus is number one for me.
Are they sold out for Jesus?
Because if they're sold out for Jesus and you're sold out for Jesus, no matter what
comes at you, you will end up in the same place if you listen.
So that's just my thing.
But I think too often people don't really pay attention to what their body is telling
them as well.
Yeah.
It was funny because going back to when I met Jackie, you know, we were not in a super,
I was in a ministry position, so I was doing ministry.
So I was actively involved in ministry.
So I was definitely being activated spiritually in what I was doing with my career.
But at the same time, I was on a back burner of that experience because of what happened
to me in my previous relationship.
And then she was in the midst of just this upheaval in her church that happened when
we met.
So we weren't in, and then on the auspices or the conditions in which we met, we did
not meet in a spiritual environment.
We met as neighbors.
And everything that we connected on was a neighborly sort of situation.
Like I was trying to help her get her daughter into a summer school program and we'd come
over and, you know, after, you know, she'd be after work or whatever.
It's just very, very neighborly.
It wasn't a spiritual thing, right?
So we didn't, so it was actually kind of good because I didn't see her in a spiritual context
or understand her spiritually until much later in our relationship when we got to know each
other more.
So I didn't have that filter to be able to know, oh, she acts spiritually or she does
the right things in church or she, you know what I'm saying?
I didn't have that distraction really is what I'm trying to say of that religiosity to
know that, oh, would I even give this person, you know, the attention if it was a different
context type thing.
But I could tell by what she said in this sort of very practical and sort of how our
conversation went, that despite what we were going through at the time, which wasn't our
best moments in life, was that at the end of the day, she knew God and she wanted to
please the father.
She had a heart for the Lord.
Was she all in to Jesus?
Was I all into Jesus?
I don't know.
I don't know if it was about, about like, oh, we're a hundred percent sold out.
So not to negate what you just said, Mike, not to negate that, but there was a certain
level of understanding.
Like I had walked with the Lord long enough that, you know, like I know when people know
the Lord, like, do you know him?
Like are you walking perfectly with him right now?
That's suspect, questionable, whatever.
But you at least have met the Lord versus somebody else who really doesn't know the
Lord, but knows religion.
Like that's two totally different things.
You know, hear what I'm saying.
There's a lot of people that I grew up with in church that I thought they were just all
alongside.
We're just going through it.
They were having church, doing our thing like their brother in the Lord, all that kind of
stuff.
And down the road, like years later, come to find out, I'm like whatever their life
ended up to be.
And I'm like, oh man, that brother.
I don't know if that brother really even knew Jesus ever to begin with.
And I'm not judging him.
I'm just like, man, does that, does that guy, like what happened?
Like did that guy never meet Jesus?
We were all side by side in the church doing all of our things and everything.
And I'm like, and again, I'm not judging.
I'm just like taking it back, like poor brother.
I don't know what happened.
I don't know where that fell off.
But I've had.
I had those moments where I knew people and I'm just like, man, I wonder if they
even knew the Lord to begin with.
That's a terrible thing to grow up in a religious context and
never have met Jesus for yourself.
Wow.
That's sad, bro.
That breaks my heart.
And I know a lot of, I know a lot of good meaning, well-meaning
Christian church people that, you know, I don't, I'm not saying that
when bad things happen to Christian people, that that's an indicator.
I'm saying, I'm talking about, I'm talking about people who are obviously
not developing in their, their faith as you think they might, would have
a number of years later, you know what I'm saying?
Like I went through hell in my version of hell, getting divorced,
come out of my, come out of my, my, my vocational ministry years and all
that and meeting Jackie in that hellish sort of situation and like recovering
from that financially, all the stuff that's going on, there's not ideal at
all, and I'm like, and for a time there, we just, we were just like having
our paradigm shifted and we were not very spiritual at all, but at the end
of the day, I had a foundation of faith from my childhood that has carried me
through all of that time period.
And I am very thankful for that.
I am very like in, that's endearing to me.
That's a heritage that I did nothing to get.
God was just good.
God found me.
I didn't find the Lord.
He found us and our family.
And there was maybe somebody in our past that was praying for that.
I do not know that.
And so that is like, that's like, wow, that's amazing.
So if you have that in your heritage, I believe all of you on this call have
had that moment of authentic encounter, know Jesus, like regardless of where,
you know, like what spiritual discipline or discipleship you've ever had or
didn't have, I know for a fact, cause I know each something about each one of
you and based on how you talk, I know that you guys know God, there's no doubt
in my mind, there's not one person on this call or some of the other people
that come, it's pretty obvious.
You talk to somebody for five minutes and say, oh, I know the Lord.
Yeah, I know that's powerful.
That'll carry you through some stuff.
And so be encouraged and be lifted up by that tonight.
Um, I guess when I say somebody, you know, loves Jesus, you know, they've
met him at least once, twice.
So I don't know if that made any sense to you guys, but, um, maybe, maybe you're,
maybe you all are reconnecting with your first love at this moment.
I don't know.
Maybe you're, maybe there's a couple of thoughts of people that are like, you
know what, it wasn't perfect.
I went through some stuff, but I tell you, there was that one moment
where I met Jesus first time.
Pretty powerful.
Any other questions?
Good stuff.
You know what?
We should probably be share some of our, like elevator pitch, like
moments where we met Jesus.
I'd be really interested to hear in some of your stories.
I mean, I've been, I've been watching a lot of, you know,
like God was real or Jesus, you know, like, I would love to hear some of that.
Can you have your hand raised?
And I'll take you as the last one.
I do appreciate that.
Yeah, no guys, I can appreciate and love each and every one, because you're
working at something that is just wonderful.
I, this is a timely thing in which Jackie and David are doing such a timely thing.
And I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
David are doing such a timely thing for a timely hour for men who seem to be, you
know, what, thinking, you know, is there a woman out for us, the same for the
women, is there a man out for us out there?
And it takes a lot of humility to be able to come in and do the
heartwork and that is fantastic.
Yeah.
As, as David, I've got a very similar story to, I completely went.
I had a job experience.
I lost everything except for I lost my wife, not the kids.
And in doing so, um, I've had to learn some very hard lessons, but
at the same time,
God was using my personality for who I was still to be being prepared for the future for the next woman I was going to meet.
And so the hard work is not only important in itself, but knowing that God is divine and God is going to show up and God's got the right one.
And we hate being patient. I hated that when somebody would say, just be patient, it'll come.
Yeah, but I want it now.
Yeah, no one likes to be lonely, but that's not what we're going into this with.
We're not going to because we're lonely. It's because we know who we are in Christ.
We know that we're leaders. We know that we have a positive outlook and we can lead our women as men are supposed to today.
And show the world that this is what it looks like to love a woman.
So and I'm going to say this word carefully, unconditionally, because that also means you still need to be a disciplinarian with your own affairs.
But loving her in such a way that all she can talk about is I've never met met a man like this.
This this is impossible. And so I know I've talked to a couple of ladies on L.Y.S.
And not to shoot my own horn, but because my love for God comes first, that my Lord talks to me through me to them to encourage them.
And they're thrilled. And because we men should be hearing from God on behalf of the women of L.Y.S.
So that they can be encouraged as well, too. So when it comes to prayer and stepping in a prayer time, guys, step in, be bold.
The women are waiting for you to step up, step in and show that you are men of God.
And it doesn't matter how timid you are. Come on, guys. You can do it. God's ability to do it.
I know, Thomas, you're you can step right into that position any time.
So you're a good looking fellow there. So, you know, as I say, just step in.
The women are just waiting for us to do so. And I encourage you.
Yeah, no, it's like the what if scenario. It's like, what if you could be the guy that all these women are looking for?
I mean, not that you're trying to go with a bunch of women.
I'm just trying to say, what if you could be that kind of guy that like, wow, that guy is transformational.
That guy, you know, has a relationship. That guy has something going on. Do you have everything going on?
No, because nobody has everything going on, but you have something going on.
And they're like, it makes a difference. Like, what if you could say like I was, you know, I think that's interesting for people to come to that point in their life or like, what if I could be more than what I really am?
It's like, I'm pretty good for who I am, I think, until you start to talk to somebody else and they're like, yeah, start comparing.
But I think I'm pretty good for what I am. But what if I could be, what if I could be a better husband?
What if I could be a better father? What if I could be a better co-worker? What if I could be a better friend?
And notice I didn't say, notice I could be a better Christian or be a better lover of God, because I don't think that's anything to pertain to be better at.
Because I think that's, I think the more you allow God to love you, because the Bible says that he loved you what?
First. So you can't show off to God and love him better just to be a better lover of God.
You have to recognize the fact that he loved you first, and then that enables you to be able to be a lover to others.
That's powerful, guys. What if you could be a better lover of people, a better friend, a better encourager, just a better man, right?
Because you're allowing the love of God and the passion of God to come through you in a masculine way.
That's powerful, man. That's attractive. So good.
I love that. Although those words, Kenton, thank you so much for encouraging us, because that just makes us go harder and go longer.
Instead of being so concerned or being so aware of our own insecurities and our own stuff.
So set aside what we're concerned about, our own stuff and our own worries and our own thing and our own situation,
and step into, what if I could be that compelling, incredible man that these women are looking for?
I think I could. And then it's just about showing up.
So, I love it! Guys, we could go on and on and on, but I have a wife to attend to.
She's like, come on over. What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real quick, David, before you jump off, I
wanted to connect with you on that fasting that you're doing. Yeah. I dropped
a hundred pounds from fasting. Sheer fasting, like no food, just water only, or like?
No, I took a meal replacement on my fasting days. That was about 240 calories.
And the most effective thing for me that worked out, in short, was eat healthy,
clean for a day, no alcohol the whole time you're doing it. Yeah. So, eat clean
one day, fast the other day, and just keep alternating it. It revs up your
metabolism. Oh, every other day. Yep, and just do 10,000 steps in a row, not just spread
across the day. Right. Like every single day, just go for 10,000 steps. It can be
flat ground, does not have to be a mountain, doesn't have to be an incline.
Okay. And I can send you the information on the supplements I use. You can
honestly go for really any good, healthy, clean supplements. Like, it's just like
organic greens and reds, BCAAs, so that you don't cut down on muscle loss, MCT
oil powder, collagen peptides. All of them taste horrible compared to actual food.
The ones I drink are like pale and crushed up Smarties. So, you know, the Smarties is
at least a positive. You put Smarties in your drink? No, but it tastes like the organic
greens and reds taste like crushed up Smarties is like the best way I could equate that flavor.
Someone else is like, oh, this tastes like Fruity Pebbles. I'm like, whatever keeps you motivated.
But yeah, I don't think there's a way for me to share the photo on here.
But I was like 250 pounds when I got out of the army. We'd like to see that. We'd like to see
that photo next week. How do I share it? How do I share it in here? I just print it off and show
you it, I guess. Or if you're joining your Zoom by your computer, you could share
a screenshot. Yeah, I'll have to make sure to put that as a profile pic on Zoom on Monday, not
any of the other days that someone is like, oh my gosh, that guy looks like two people.
I'd like to marry him, but then he's going to eat me out of house and home.
How are guys supposed to like measles to gain weight? I only weigh 105 pounds and I've never
weighed more than 110. Chicken and rice, beans, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, dried cereal.
When I was a wrestler in high school and in the army, that's pretty much what I ate. And
as much as you probably don't want to do this, you'd have to increase your macro,
not your macros, your calories in by a lot. When I'm on a weight gain diet, I'll eat close to
like 4,000 calories. Right now, I eat 2,500 calories in a three-hour window,
and then I'm fasting the other 21 hours of the day. And even for that,
fasting is kind of like internal foam rolling. So it's
in any other way of weight loss, like macro balancing, it takes your body honestly about
six weeks to realize, oh, hey, this crazy guy's in a deficit and wants to actually burn this stuff
off that I've been holding onto for the last 16 years. With fasting, it's like, I don't care.
I need energy. I'm burning this. So with that, it's totally,
like, I'll print off the photo and give you a graphic, but it's like,
geez, like, you look like, you don't even look like the same person.
David, would you be willing to maybe put some of the supplements you're talking about,
like on the LYS page for us to look at? Sure. Or I could send it to you on Facebook,
either way, whatever's appropriate. David Dorman. Yeah. Whatever, however you want to connect.
Okay. And Andy, to put on some weight, do some protein and hit the weights. Like, you'll gain
weight.
if you're actually hitting the weights
and actually doing the protein and having your macro,
you'll gain weight.
You know, you'll gain muscle.
This is what I use for weight gain, Andy.
And you can get,
I get that at the vitamin shop out here in Nevada.
I don't know if that's out by you in Michigan.
There is.
But it's like 29 bucks.
Part of my problem is that I can't digest many things
and I have to be really careful.
But it's probably like the impediment
is I need to get over my digestive problems
before I can try to gain weight.
That's the problem.
So there's another organization called Bioptimizers.
My vitamin D level used to be like 17
when I got out of the army.
It's supposed to be like 33.
And I spent like three or four years trying to get it upped,
taking stupid amounts of vitamin D every time.
Like right when COVID came out,
I got sick right away because of low vitamin D levels.
And also refusing to wear a mask or socially distance
because I didn't care.
But whatever, you know?
But no, it's,
I started taking this magnesium breakthrough
from Bioptimizers that like,
it skyrocketed my vitamin D levels to like 56.
Wow.
And the VA was like, oh, we don't know how this happened.
I'm like, it's because you guys don't have brains.
I told you for years, I have low magnesium
and it's affecting my vitamin D,
but you didn't want to hear it because I'm not a doctor.
Well, whatever.
I'm not gonna get into all that.
But anyway, they have a,
I forget what the actual product is called,
but if you have a Sprouts or a similar store,
you can look up their,
it's like a lipase or a metabolizing protein supplement
that you can take that helps break down food for you
if you have digestion issues.
I'll put all that on the last year single app
as like a general comment for everyone to go look at.
Coolio.
Yeah.
You guys connected, it'd be good.
You guys, God bless.
Have a great, great week and we'll see you next time.
I'm in India for the next month.
So I'll look forward to seeing all of you in April.
Cool, man.
Have a great time.
It's great to have a blessed time.
Is it for vacation, ministry?
Going for a wedding mostly,
plus got invited to India for longer.
Not that I know of.
So.
Good for you, Thomas.
That's awesome.
So I appreciate you guys.
Love y'all.
See you later.
God bless.
God bless, man.
Hey, Thomas.