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One thing that's

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Like about our team is like we we went really deep on one project with you for one

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One product that we're working on

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But like the same made lucia and janata chris like it's just the four of us like that's man

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But we have like three or four products. We have to like

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Support each like we're working on

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Simultaneously, so I think that's also one thing that when we say like a week

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It's like a week given that we're working on all this other stuff at the same time

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so it's really like a solid day or two like

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Janata was saying Oh to maybe three weeks

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But he's spent like two or three days on everything for this one DM thing and we're basically done

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Okay, we work relatively quickly

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But this has made us much more accurate and more specific. So

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It's going into like other projects like I got on a I did a four-hour

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So we didn't even met Friday the following Monday

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I've got on a four-hour call with one of our clients and we all we did was just breadboard with him and it was a

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Great complex. Yeah four hours with with the client and I sent him one of your videos

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There's that little you're like a 16 minute intro to shaping or something video. Yeah, like two years old

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I

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Never even saw that

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until

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Until last week, but I said I've been sending that to all of our clients

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I was like you guys like you need to watch this before you work work continue to work with us

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Yeah, maybe it's the nutshell video shaping in a nutshell. Yeah, very good

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Can I ask you what? What do you want them to take away from that?

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Maybe just trying to speak our language more than anything. Okay, and kind of get the concept of

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Most of our clients are not technical but they are

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So they're they're they're playing the role of like when we say like here's a here's a bet or here

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We're putting this this pitch together for a project like they're the ones obviously financing it, right?

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so we finally had a bit of breakthrough showing that to our clients and then

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this this particular kind this is for Kingsley for everybody else who

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talked about and

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We we had to it was this tension of like, hey

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Yeah, but you you're the ones your role here is like he's setting the appetite kind of like you were doing on the call with

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Us I kind of took that away

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It's like hey, so that like is this is this three weeks? Is it for like is it too?

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like what is what feels like

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Like like what are you able to invest in this particular feature? Because that's a major

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Variable for the for the entire process before you yeah, totally

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Yeah, and you guys are reacting to that right with different ideas of scope and stuff like that. Uh-huh

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Yeah, so we got so we obviously we'll talk about the DM

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I was just pointing out we've gotten a lot of value and I would say we've potentially rescued a very

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Messy situation we were by using the breadboarding to kind of get super clear on some of the requirements for this

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And kind of flipping that mode and so now like we're not putting anything into notion or tasks or projects until things are very

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Very concrete. I think Janata went and like shaped up a whole thing

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So we've it's kind of we have all these existing clients that we've been working with already

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So like the afternoon after we were done on our first session Janata went and shaped up a bunch of X tech stuff for us

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That's been going on for four or five months

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But we just picked up, you know the next project and just got much more clear about it

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so

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We're putting into practice. I'm saying so we're obviously using DMS as the as the example, but it's being applied to a lot of

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Different things as well. Awesome made huge value there. That's great

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Also, we can we'll see if it comes up

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from your side, but

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Lucien I wanted to to mention to you that

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You raised at the end of the session last time you said

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When you were looking at the breadboard you're saying yeah

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I kind of wish that I could see a little bit more of what was going on in the back end here and

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It's been a project I've been working on for a while and I hadn't shared anything about that yet or sort of like

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Started to kind of bake it into more framework conventions and I've got a few

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conventions for putting putting pieces of

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Of the back end into the breadboard

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So if we have any situations where you feel like that's needed or that would be useful

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That's also something that I can share with you. Yeah, that sounds interesting. Yeah

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So, okay, so

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let's see, let's see what comes out now because

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you know the the the initial concept for this follow-up session was

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We're gonna we're gonna look at the shaping together then you guys are gonna kick off and then and then we're going to just be

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in the middle of the project and we're gonna see

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is this coming together or not?

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And what might we need to do?

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And how might we handle difficulties

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that are appearing there?

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I'm curious what you guys need out of this

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because what I'm hearing is like,

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oh, we're flying and we're already halfway done

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and everything is great.

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You know what I mean?

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So-

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I wouldn't say everything's great.

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I wouldn't say everything's great.

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I'm saying like, we moved a lot of things forward

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in a lot of, in a lot of,

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it added a lot of clarity to a lot of different projects.

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So-

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That's nice, okay.

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I'm really curious to see where this like midpoint check-in

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Yeah, cool.

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Where this leaves us.

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So, you know, when we started off the shaping session,

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I gave just a little bit of a,

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what are we doing here intro?

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And I'll give you the 30 second,

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what are we doing here, you know, intro for this session.

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So in the shaping session, you know,

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the task was like, here's our,

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here's what we think is the appetite.

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Here's what we think is what we're trying to solve.

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And now can we get much more clear about what that is

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and if they actually fit each other, right?

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So we did the breadboarding to get more clear

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about what the actual concept was.

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And then we were able to kind of push and pull

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on what is the right kind of expectation to set

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as far as appetite and to do these things match each other.

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That was kind of what the shaping session was all about.

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This review session,

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fundamentally like the question that I'm asking

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if I'm in a review session is,

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it's simply like, is it coming together?

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And if I wanted to use a technical word,

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I would say, are we seeing that it's,

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that the integration is happening?

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So what we don't want to see is progress.

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And you guys, I'm sure have seen this in the past

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is like tasks are getting checked off,

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but it doesn't mean that anything is demoable

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or clickable yet, right?

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And you know that feeling when you're kind of

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like doing stuff, but that moment of truth

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still hasn't come where you get to like see

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that it's really working.

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And so that's the kind of the very, very first thing

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is like, are we seeing stuff working or not?

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If we're not, then we, that's our first order of business

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is how do we get to that, right?

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If we are seeing stuff working,

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then we're gonna look across what was shaped

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and try to understand how do we look

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in terms of what's left and sort of where,

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is everything we thought was true, still true.

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We had kind of this breadboard that was supposed

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to describe what we were gonna do.

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You might have, I'm guessing that you have some kind

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of a mental idea at least of what the scopes are.

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Let's see if we pull out that tool or not today.

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But a big piece of this is like, okay, so number one,

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are we seeing things coming together or not?

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Yes or no.

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If not at all, then how do we get to the first thing?

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And then that's simply what the session is about.

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If not, if we are seeing things come together,

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then it's a question of what's left

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and kind of what is like strategy-wise,

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like what do we expect to see coming together next

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and what's known and unknown there?

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That's kind of like sort of the general approach here.

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So the one thing that I would want to just have ready

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is do you guys have like any kind of like newer source

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of truth that you're looking at?

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So like if I'm coming in cold, what are the things

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that I would be looking at to understand

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like where we are somehow?

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Do you have some mechanism you're using to track that?

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So, yeah, we did move from Myra over to FigJam.

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Yeah.

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And then we still have, I don't know if it'd be helpful,

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but we could just also for Luchin, he's not been,

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Janata and I worked very closely on this.

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I don't know how in sync Luchin is

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on what we did the last week,

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but maybe we could just take like two minutes

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and just show you what we got.

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Maybe Janata can, if you have a second to do it,

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like just demo it.

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Yeah, demo is fantastic.

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And then I can use the breadboard to kind of at least

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orient what we have versus what the concept was.

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By the way, I just hit a request access button.

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Yes, I just approved you there.

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And it's essentially most of what we,

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you can see we screenshot what you gave us,

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which was very helpful.

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Just for, and for the record, this is like the,

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this is the first, you know,

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since we talked it's been like two weeks

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we've been using FigJam or anything like a whiteboard tool.

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I mean, typically it's been,

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everything's just thrown into Notion with tasks and text.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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So this is by the way, I'm gonna share my screen just.

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while we're looking at this just so that it's in our recording.

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Because if I'm only looking at it,

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if we're just looking at it through the web,

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then it won't go into the Zoom recording.

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OK, good.

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So OK, so this is where you guys landed in terms of the shape.

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And then is there another thing that you

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look at to try to understand what's done

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and what's not done in terms of where you are in the build

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cycle?

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Let me share.

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If you don't mind, let me share my screen

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so I have to share our whole Notion project with you.

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So this is sort of our dashboard for each project.

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And the budget is pulled in hourly from our time tracker

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versus this.

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So based on our two weeks, four weeks, whatever appetite here,

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this just scales this budget indicator

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so we know where we are.

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So when I told you, hey, we're halfway,

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I mean, we are literally halfway.

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And based on schedule, we have five days left.

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So these are just our on-time, on-budget indicators.

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So the question I have in my mind

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as we are about to look at what you're going to show

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is what should I expect to see a demo of?

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Is there anything?

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So anyway, that's just what's in my head here,

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is I'm thinking there should be some, probably,

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indication of something is done.

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And that should somehow, or it's ready for review or something.

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And that should somehow correspond

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to what we're going to look at.

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For sure.

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So we've done, I mean, most of these tasks are knocked out.

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And then we've got, we're kind of halfway

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through what we've started.

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We haven't started on these tasks.

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And so some of these are Mason, Janata.

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And then so we're about halfway through on the tasks.

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What we typically did was like, this

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is where we would put the problem and the solution

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and kind of frame everything up.

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Is that what you're looking for?

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No, I'm so, I'm going to step back and say,

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let's move into demo mode.

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And then we'll, just so that we don't talk mechanics

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when it's not needed, you know what I mean?

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And then we can come back to mechanics if there's a reason.

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I'll let you do it, Janata.

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Let me share my screen.

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One second.

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And it started.

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So one, I think one additional piece of information

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regarding what Bruce said is that we also

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made the decision to actually refactor the chat that

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was originally placed there.

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So that really helped in terms of adding new features

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on top of it, because we kind of migrated out

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of a funneled code base and into a new, more productive one,

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let's say.

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OK.

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Oh, sorry.

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I just realized that I'm on the wrong branch.

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One second.

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Yeah, no problem.

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Yeah, no problem.

249
00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:17.780
I saw the scroll on the side, and I knew it.

250
00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:20.260
It's one of the things we fixed.

251
00:13:20.260 --> 00:13:23.300
And while you're pulling that up, Ryan,

252
00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:26.100
like, obviously, what was inspiring to us,

253
00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:28.260
or for me, the takeaway, was just

254
00:13:28.260 --> 00:13:31.260
the quality of accuracy and intentionality

255
00:13:31.260 --> 00:13:34.140
with the features that we were adding.

256
00:13:34.140 --> 00:13:37.900
And it felt like we were doing this crazy level of attention

257
00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:40.660
to detail on this one tiny little feature, which

258
00:13:40.660 --> 00:13:44.780
really turned out to be like addition of one button.

259
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:46.580
But we were building on this, like,

260
00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:50.100
kind of a mess of just terrible garbage code.

261
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:52.460
And so I attempted just over the weekend

262
00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.140
to kind of get it started and to see

263
00:13:54.140 --> 00:13:58.180
if it would even be possible to refactor it that fast.

264
00:13:58.180 --> 00:14:01.420
So that was something we did, and we were able to clean up.

265
00:14:01.420 --> 00:14:04.140
But it did end up making it a lot easier for Junauda

266
00:14:04.140 --> 00:14:05.140
to work on.

267
00:14:05.140 --> 00:14:08.220
We're still, there's some refactor tasks in there

268
00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:09.260
that I'm still working on.

269
00:14:09.260 --> 00:14:12.740
But we're 80% probably on that, kind of replacing

270
00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:14.420
the old code with the new one.

271
00:14:14.420 --> 00:14:15.140
Yeah, cool.

272
00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:28.060
So, and one thing I would, I'll let you, yeah, let you do it.

273
00:14:28.060 --> 00:14:30.340
Sorry.

274
00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:31.660
Please, you can continue.

275
00:14:31.660 --> 00:14:33.380
The new version is still building.

276
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:07.040
Oh, I see thumbs up indicators on this breadboard, by the way.

277
00:15:07.040 --> 00:15:08.840
Yes.

278
00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:12.080
Are those?

279
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.880
What is the meaning of that?

280
00:15:14.880 --> 00:15:18.960
I think we're saying we're using those loosely as just

281
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.400
quickly marking things as done.

282
00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:25.920
Currently, there is a profile pop-up.

283
00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:28.440
I can't open the chat.

284
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.800
And then we started to put our little stickers on things.

285
00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:37.560
So the little circle is Olympus, that's Janata, me.

286
00:15:37.560 --> 00:15:39.000
And so we could kind of see like, OK, cool.

287
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.640
I'm going to take over this fixing the one-on-one chat

288
00:15:41.640 --> 00:15:46.160
stuff, because that was sort of a when you open the chat,

289
00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:48.280
that's just this was the existing functionality.

290
00:15:48.280 --> 00:15:52.520
It's not really new functionality.

291
00:15:52.520 --> 00:15:59.720
And then I don't think this is like,

292
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.680
I'm not sure if it's updated as far as status

293
00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:02.800
of what's finished.

294
00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:04.560
Pretty much everything is working, I think,

295
00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:06.680
except for the push notifications.

296
00:16:06.680 --> 00:16:08.320
Uh-huh, OK.

297
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:18.200
So we're mostly done, but I can kind of skim through.

298
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:20.840
We really like the visual of the breadboard.

299
00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.720
And to me, we spent so much time in the details of this

300
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.920
that that's been helpful to kind of just keep

301
00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:31.760
that as our source of truth.

302
00:16:31.760 --> 00:16:33.800
It's kind of like the high-altitude view

303
00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:35.600
of the work.

304
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:39.360
Yeah, the problem is when we go to specifics.

305
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:44.280
So I want to chat about the list of added people.

306
00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:47.760
And Janata and I want to have a conversation

307
00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:52.040
or just kind of working asynchronously with each other.

308
00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:58.080
Then we've been using comments in FigJam, which is not great.

309
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.240
We're pretty used to Notion comments,

310
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.200
because it creates a nice inbox for you.

311
00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:05.800
And you can clear that out every couple hours

312
00:17:05.800 --> 00:17:09.240
instead of having Slack obviously

313
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.359
being the worst of all tools to chat about this stuff.

314
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.960
But Notion's pretty much been our go-to.

315
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.440
So I think what we have now is what's in Notion

316
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.880
is probably the most accurate as far as status goes.

317
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.920
But we're kind of flipping between both of these,

318
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:23.440
honestly.

319
00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:31.120
I will start sharing.

320
00:17:31.120 --> 00:17:32.400
Maybe I'll just finish it.

321
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:53.200
OK, now it's properly set.

322
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:58.120
So all this here is already the new interface

323
00:17:58.120 --> 00:18:01.440
and the new code base with the new chat

324
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:08.240
and all the new updates that Bruce did during the refactor.

325
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.880
And on top of that, what we viewed

326
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.120
was basically this group chat structure

327
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:20.960
where we can see the groups here on the left.

328
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.400
And you can start a new group by clicking on this button.

329
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.640
And you can name the group like we discussed it.

330
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.000
So test name one.

331
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.040
We can search the user base.

332
00:18:33.040 --> 00:18:38.080
So for instance, let me start a group with Bruce.

333
00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:39.160
I feel Bruce here.

334
00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:45.000
And also one of the Notions that we have.

335
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.360
We can choose between them.

336
00:18:47.360 --> 00:18:50.240
And we create the new group.

337
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.840
And this already updates the screen with the new group open.

338
00:18:54.840 --> 00:18:56.640
You can already send a message.

339
00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.600
And other users will be able to see them.

340
00:19:00.600 --> 00:19:04.080
And you can also edit the group right here.

341
00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.520
And this is one of the things that shaping

342
00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:09.800
made us realize that we could just

343
00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:11.760
reuse the same component.

344
00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:13.880
For editing, come on.

345
00:19:14.760 --> 00:19:17.120
For editing, we can just remove.

346
00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:21.120
And if we remove someone and add another person.

347
00:19:21.120 --> 00:19:25.120
So if we come here and we remove a delusion

348
00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:27.760
and we are adding João.

349
00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:31.360
And if we update the group, another thing

350
00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:33.720
that shaping made easier to realize

351
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.400
is that we may not even need to implement push notifications

352
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:39.680
as a new thing.

353
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:43.200
Because we can just send the message in the group.

354
00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:46.160
And this would automatically trigger a notification.

355
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:50.280
Because we are already sending a notification

356
00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:51.520
for the message flow.

357
00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:54.120
And this is a new message being created.

358
00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:56.480
The only difference is that it is associated

359
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.120
through a conversation that has multiple people.

360
00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:01.320
So that's it.

361
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:07.680
something that it could came during the development phase or even be overlooked at that.

362
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:14.640
And we could like create a new push notification flow when in reality was actually not needed.

363
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:26.800
And yeah, I think this is more or less the bulk of it. I don't know if you want to add something,

364
00:20:26.800 --> 00:20:32.480
Bruce? Yeah, the only thing, again, just the shaping, these little things that we didn't,

365
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:37.680
I don't know if you mind, Gennady, just flipping to the old version, like in production, just done.

366
00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:44.960
But one little thing that once, because I went in, we built it, I think Gennady and I, kind of on

367
00:20:45.760 --> 00:20:56.240
past three or four of the breadboarding, did we realize, hang on a minute, like our chats

368
00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:01.280
don't tell you who's saying what. So it didn't matter when it was a one-to-one because it's

369
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:07.120
either me or it's not me, right? It's just a, it's a true, like is Bruce, is not Bruce. So like

370
00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:11.920
it's very easy, but then you start paying attention to things like iMessage and Slack.

371
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:16.640
And it's really fascinating because iMessage is much more complicated in that, like if it is a

372
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:21.520
one-to-one chat, it actually leaves all the names off. But if you're in a group chat in iMessage,

373
00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:27.040
then it actually puts the person's name and their avatar and their initials there in their picture.

374
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.040
And these, I didn't even notice this in a tool that I use all the time, every day.

375
00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:41.760
So that was one thing we never even considered was even placing the avatar and the person's name.

376
00:21:42.320 --> 00:21:47.360
And so you can, before that it was just, it was just blank. But these are little things,

377
00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:52.480
like once we got into it, we realized like, oh, I won't be able to tell who, who said what. So

378
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:57.520
we've added, like, there's the person who spoke, you know, there's you, you know, and then there's

379
00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:03.840
little timestamps and things like that were little, little, small, small improvements. But

380
00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:07.920
from the actual experience, we didn't even know that was a problem when we did the first pass

381
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:13.520
with you. We really had to kind of get into it a little bit more. It wasn't, it wasn't until

382
00:22:13.520 --> 00:22:17.520
we're actually like putting things on the page that we realized this was going to be a problem.

383
00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:28.400
Perfect. Okay, so anything else to, to look at in terms of what was,

384
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:30.640
what changed or what's working now?

385
00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:38.160
Yeah, maybe just one thing that I just know.

386
00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:47.200
I think it also could be the type of problem that we don't have to solve. But when we create,

387
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:54.000
this is what it's looking like for the old person. So I'm now the older version of that.

388
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:59.440
And when I created a chat group, this version doesn't know how to handle. So it basically

389
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:05.360
shows a one-to-one conversation with that person that created the group. So in this case,

390
00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:13.200
as you can see here, I have a message that has groups detail updated with Bruce, but this is

391
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:18.960
actually the group that was created, but the older version doesn't have this handling.

392
00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:26.560
But we also discussed that it may be something that it's not even, it's just, we can just say

393
00:23:26.560 --> 00:23:31.200
to the user, hey, you can update to the new version and this will be fixed. So this may

394
00:23:31.280 --> 00:23:33.200
add something that you have to think to make.

395
00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:41.520
So this is, there's a, the way that folks are using this, it's, they have to update themselves.

396
00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:44.240
It's not, it's not a typical SaaS situation.

397
00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:50.080
Yeah, it's both. So like that's, we have web, this is the web browser, which hasn't been pushed

398
00:23:50.080 --> 00:23:55.520
to production obviously, but they will have like their iPhone or Android app that will require an

399
00:23:55.520 --> 00:24:03.360
update to get, you know, the corrected version. So we, yeah, that's kind of adds more complexity

400
00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:11.360
to have to somewhat, so it's basically backwards compatibility is the problem to solve there.

401
00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:18.240
Have you ever had a backward compatibility question arise on the phone apps?

402
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:24.480
We typically, I mean, our solution, we have only 20,000 of the active users. So it's, it's

403
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:30.720
relatively simple to, like when people run into it, an issue, just be like, just update.

404
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:36.160
We also have some notification mechanisms where when you open the app and you're on an old version,

405
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:41.520
it prompts you like push it, you know, tap here to update. So that, those type of things help

406
00:24:42.080 --> 00:24:46.800
that being less of an issue. So again, this would be something we'd want to either scope out of the,

407
00:24:46.800 --> 00:24:51.600
or draw a boundary around not, do we, do we care about that? Like, do we just want to,

408
00:24:51.600 --> 00:24:54.960
like, tell them to update, problem solved.

409
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.700
You know, and I could, this is where it's good maybe for the business side.

410
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:11.180
Like I only know that one of our 10 clients that have apps like this, only

411
00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:15.060
one of them is going to be using group messages initially, so it's going to be

412
00:25:15.060 --> 00:25:20.100
a very small subset of maybe a few hundred people, um, so potentially

413
00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:23.780
that's not like, you know, we don't need every, some of our bigger clients

414
00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:28.700
aren't even using, don't even have DMS enabled, um, so won't be a factor.

415
00:25:30.860 --> 00:25:31.200
Cool.

416
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:31.660
Okay.

417
00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:39.980
Um, so here's, here's the part where, um, I feel like there are unanswered

418
00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:46.620
questions, um, it's clear that the core of this is working cause we just saw it.

419
00:25:48.140 --> 00:25:52.800
What's what I kind of feel like I can't see, and I would want to be

420
00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:55.880
seeing is what is actually left.

421
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.920
And if we were to, if I, if I was responsible for testing this, like,

422
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:06.640
how would I know if it's doing what it's supposed to be doing or not?

423
00:26:08.760 --> 00:26:12.680
Um, so, uh, do you guys have a sense?

424
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:17.280
Do you have something that you're, um, do you have a sense already

425
00:26:17.280 --> 00:26:18.760
of how to answer those questions?

426
00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:26.160
Uh, I think this goes back to what's pending on ocean, uh, which is basically,

427
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.720
um, let me open this project.

428
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:35.880
So, uh, yesterday, um, me and Bruce had a brief discussion about this and basically

429
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:42.280
there's a few tasks here, basically have kind of two different, uh, types of tasks.

430
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:48.040
Uh, types of tasks, let's say one are focused on finishing the refactor part,

431
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:53.040
because there are some stuff that are related to the scope of the refactor

432
00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:55.440
itself that we are kind of considering.

433
00:26:56.040 --> 00:27:01.320
Uh, not a different thing, but kind of, we are assuming that everything will be

434
00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:07.320
done regarding the refactor part, uh, for the implementation of the group chat.

435
00:27:07.800 --> 00:27:12.840
So here we have a few of the open items for the refactor, which include things

436
00:27:12.840 --> 00:27:16.400
like, for instance, uh, finish the file upload.

437
00:27:16.760 --> 00:27:21.480
So once this is finished, we assume that we will also be working on the group flow

438
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:26.080
because it's basically the same, uh, structure that's being utilized.

439
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:33.160
And also there are a few items that are related to the, uh, group messaging

440
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.360
itself and, uh, the items that are pending there.

441
00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:42.120
So basically this would be our current tracking of what's pending for this

442
00:27:42.120 --> 00:27:42.680
project.

443
00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:48.520
Um, at least that's how, how I, I'm viewing it at the current point.

444
00:27:49.080 --> 00:27:51.760
Um, how, how do you feel about it, Bruce?

445
00:27:51.760 --> 00:27:55.160
So I think this is a pretty accurate portrait, right?

446
00:27:58.560 --> 00:27:59.040
Right.

447
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.040
The only thing that we, we would have, like, as far as someone would go and test

448
00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:08.520
it, um, we do have like a test suite of, of kind of by module, that's more of like

449
00:28:08.520 --> 00:28:10.200
a checklist that we would hit.

450
00:28:10.360 --> 00:28:15.960
Um, and so that there's probably like, we have to add a few, uh, features to that

451
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.720
now with now the group feature, but as far as like just checking the boxes, as

452
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.320
far as like, you know, the user can do this, it can do that, this works.

453
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:30.960
Um, but we're totally, this is kind of our, there's been a sort of our platform

454
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:35.960
of, is just having sort of cam cam in board with just stuff in here and just

455
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:40.520
kind of seeing progress now we've added the visual of the breadboard as well to

456
00:28:40.520 --> 00:28:47.840
kind of make sure we know where all these tasks it, um, we have kind of dumped and

457
00:28:47.840 --> 00:28:51.560
left all of the things we used to do for the pit for the pitch.

458
00:28:51.560 --> 00:28:55.480
I think if you scroll down, there's like the original pitch that we had sent you.

459
00:28:55.840 --> 00:28:58.520
Um, I've now like just thrown that at the bottom for reference

460
00:28:58.520 --> 00:29:00.520
because it's kind of useless.

461
00:29:00.840 --> 00:29:06.360
But so, um, maybe we're a little, uh, shy to like put in some of

462
00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:07.920
the other texts around this.

463
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.640
That would be, if you were say, joining the project today, halfway

464
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.840
through, and you were coming into test, like you would be looking more for

465
00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:19.560
some, some context, um, which you wouldn't get by just looking at a

466
00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:21.280
breadboard and a cam band board.

467
00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:23.320
Maybe that's what you're getting at.

468
00:29:23.320 --> 00:29:23.680
Yeah.

469
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:24.400
Okay.

470
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:30.320
So, um, here's where I'm at.

471
00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:37.360
Um, um, uh, if, if, if I were responsible for this project, um, I, I, I feel like

472
00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:42.720
there's a missing piece here, which is that like, um, I, I, I don't have quite

473
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:46.520
the clarity where I could really say, I understand what is done and what is not

474
00:29:46.600 --> 00:29:47.080
done here.

475
00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:53.920
Um, and the reason that I would want that clarity is because if we start, if

476
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.840
any one of these things starts to take longer, or it turns out that one of

477
00:29:57.840 --> 00:30:00.000
these things is harder.

478
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.800
and the rest, or it disrupts our plan.

479
00:30:03.800 --> 00:30:06.120
Like, and if we face a situation

480
00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:07.960
where we're gonna have to drop some things

481
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:09.960
in order to finish the important thing,

482
00:30:11.080 --> 00:30:13.880
I'm not confident right now

483
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:16.960
that I would be able to make those judgments.

484
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.200
I kind of feel like it's hard.

485
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.520
I feel like a lot of the state of the project

486
00:30:20.520 --> 00:30:22.920
is kind of like in our heads right now.

487
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.920
There's a, so, but that's me coming from my standard here.

488
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.160
I'm kind of picking up that things feel fine for you guys.

489
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.840
So what I wanna do is I wanna just take a minute

490
00:30:34.840 --> 00:30:37.720
and see what it might look like

491
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.120
to get a little bit clearer, you know?

492
00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:42.720
And, but I don't wanna, I'm not gonna,

493
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.880
I'm gonna pause after we take a few steps

494
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:48.320
in that direction to see if it feels useful to you, okay?

495
00:30:48.320 --> 00:30:50.200
To see if this is just my thing,

496
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:55.200
or if this is also, if you see value in that.

497
00:30:55.800 --> 00:30:57.200
So what I wanna do is,

498
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:01.920
this is a place where like,

499
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:08.080
I've been starting to test like pair programming tools

500
00:31:08.080 --> 00:31:11.320
that let you have two screens shared at the same time,

501
00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:12.560
because you kind of reach a point

502
00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:13.920
where it can get a little bit annoying

503
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.480
to bounce back and forth.

504
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.760
I'm gonna share my screen here.

505
00:31:17.760 --> 00:31:19.320
We typically use Slack huddles,

506
00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:21.720
and that does let you do that, but.

507
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.840
Slack huddles let you do that, yeah?

508
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:25.320
But it doesn't let you record, okay.

509
00:31:25.320 --> 00:31:28.600
So that's trade-offs.

510
00:31:28.600 --> 00:31:29.440
Okay.

511
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.800
So I'm gonna share my screen here.

512
00:31:33.800 --> 00:31:36.800
And what I did is I just pulled up,

513
00:31:36.800 --> 00:31:39.880
I just pasted your breadboard into another tool

514
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:42.080
just so that I don't screw up your document.

515
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:46.880
And what I'm seeing here is,

516
00:31:49.360 --> 00:31:52.320
okay, for example,

517
00:31:52.320 --> 00:31:56.680
we saw new group chat on the conversation list, right?

518
00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:01.920
We talked about, if I remember right,

519
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:05.880
searching involved, I should be able to filter

520
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.080
both names and also group chats

521
00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:11.600
from our original conversation when we shaped.

522
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.480
This is the kind of thing of like,

523
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.320
if I wanna know if this whole thing,

524
00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:22.600
if changes are on conversation list,

525
00:32:22.600 --> 00:32:24.480
are we actually done here?

526
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.360
I've got two questions.

527
00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:28.040
One, the behavior of the search.

528
00:32:28.040 --> 00:32:29.600
Did it need to change?

529
00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:30.800
Did it change?

530
00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:32.800
Is there something outstanding there?

531
00:32:32.800 --> 00:32:37.800
And the group chat button,

532
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.000
in the original shape,

533
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.280
I remember that we had a condition on that,

534
00:32:43.280 --> 00:32:46.320
that only admins should be able to see that button.

535
00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:47.440
Great.

536
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.440
So what I wanna be able to do

537
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:55.600
is I wanna be able to get to a place where

538
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:01.960
with our, I'm actually gonna switch over here,

539
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.600
with our, let's say we have our nine boxes.

540
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.080
Let's just, I'll just make a new one here

541
00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:10.280
so that we can have something to,

542
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:16.560
just that we have something to look at.

543
00:33:16.600 --> 00:33:19.120
I wanna be able to say anything related

544
00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:20.520
to conversation list,

545
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:23.680
what is, what needs to happen,

546
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:24.920
what's done and what's not done.

547
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:26.840
And I wanna get up to a point where I can say like

548
00:33:26.840 --> 00:33:29.880
that entire piece of the map is conquered.

549
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.080
There's no refactorings left that touch that.

550
00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:33.280
There's no UI changes.

551
00:33:33.280 --> 00:33:34.520
There's no conditions missing.

552
00:33:34.520 --> 00:33:36.400
Like that piece works.

553
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:39.400
And then if we contrast that to edit group,

554
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.120
which is kind of this shared dialogue that you have

555
00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:48.440
for creating the group and for editing it,

556
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:49.280
something like that.

557
00:33:49.280 --> 00:33:51.920
Yeah, I think this is a piece of what you have now.

558
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.520
There's work that's outstanding there.

559
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.920
For example, if we go back here,

560
00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:06.360
so there's this functionality where if I look at this,

561
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.920
the new group chat, this, I think this kind of

562
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:10.960
is all working.

563
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:12.360
This I'm not sure about.

564
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.920
This I know is all working,

565
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:18.120
but this stuff is part of that.

566
00:34:18.120 --> 00:34:20.000
And I kind of don't know how it relates to that.

567
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.440
And if that's some separate scope

568
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.360
or if that's gonna affect this.

569
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:27.120
So these are some of the questions that are in my mind.

570
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:32.080
Maybe we can just dive in to the conversation list.

571
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:34.440
Can we flip back,

572
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:40.520
Giannata to your demo that you have in your window?

573
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:46.120
And it looked like you guys are both sharing

574
00:34:46.120 --> 00:34:46.960
at the same time.

575
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.440
I didn't know you could do that in Zoom.

576
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:49.280
Did it?

577
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:53.040
Yeah, but they weren't side by side, right?

578
00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:55.040
We had to like somehow flip between them.

579
00:34:55.040 --> 00:34:56.760
Yeah, there's like a tab at the top,

580
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:58.800
but I mean, any one of us could,

581
00:34:59.680 --> 00:35:00.520
or I think.

582
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.400
you can potentially spotlight it, but that's new.

583
00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:09.880
I'm a little worried about the cloud recording there,

584
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.500
so I think I'm going to do replacing next time

585
00:35:12.500 --> 00:35:14.200
before we test that just to make sure

586
00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:15.800
that everything is captured.

587
00:35:19.520 --> 00:35:21.120
Actually, if you don't mind, what I'm going to do

588
00:35:21.120 --> 00:35:22.720
is I'm going to share again.

589
00:35:30.200 --> 00:35:31.200
Well, that's funny.

590
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:38.520
I'm just going to take a screenshot of my screen

591
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:40.400
at these moments,

592
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:42.880
and then if we need to go back and recreate the context,

593
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:44.120
I just took a couple of screenshots,

594
00:35:44.120 --> 00:35:45.680
and then we won't have that problem.

595
00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:49.040
Okay, so Giannato, let's look at your screen again.

596
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.920
So the question was about the conversation list changes.

597
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.600
Does search search both the groups and the one-on-ones?

598
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.560
Oh, I see. I see what you're asking.

599
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:09.080
It's a filter now.

600
00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:10.600
I actually worked on that,

601
00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:13.120
but now if you start typing, like, you know,

602
00:36:13.120 --> 00:36:17.080
J-O-A or something, it'll just filter that list

603
00:36:17.080 --> 00:36:18.680
that is on the left down.

604
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.440
Uh-huh, okay, and if you type new, what happens?

605
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.520
Nothing.

606
00:36:30.520 --> 00:36:32.560
Okay, so ...

607
00:36:32.560 --> 00:36:36.000
It's not searching by the name of the group yet, correct?

608
00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:39.800
So I'm going to share again.

609
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.080
Oh, no, let's stick, I'm going to make a note,

610
00:36:42.080 --> 00:36:43.680
and we'll come back to that,

611
00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:48.040
just because I don't want to thrash too much in screen shares.

612
00:36:49.120 --> 00:36:53.440
Then the other question was the new group chat,

613
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.240
whether the button is conditioned on being admin or not?

614
00:36:57.240 --> 00:36:59.280
No, this is one of the questions

615
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.160
that are already mapped on the notion,

616
00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:03.760
but it's not implemented,

617
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:07.880
this conditional view for this and this edit button.

618
00:37:08.600 --> 00:37:17.600
Got it. So I'm going to switch back to mine.

619
00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:24.640
It's funny how it asked me before ...

620
00:37:25.640 --> 00:37:27.600
Okay, I'm going to change this to one participant

621
00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:29.480
can share at a time, just so that we have clarity

622
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:33.640
for the recording, just before we've tested this.

623
00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:37.680
So the way that I'm ...

624
00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:40.720
I'm not insisting that you change anything with your tooling.

625
00:37:40.720 --> 00:37:44.360
I'm just using a tool that shows you what's in my head, okay?

626
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:48.360
And then you guys take this, we'll see what comes out of it.

627
00:37:49.680 --> 00:37:53.560
The way this is in my head, there's always very different ways

628
00:37:53.640 --> 00:37:55.760
to slice what's left.

629
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.320
I'm not going to worry about that too much.

630
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:02.240
All I'm going to do is start with something reasonable.

631
00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:06.680
So what I find is that if I can think of the conversation list

632
00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:09.360
as an area that has changes or doesn't,

633
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:17.120
there's this issue here of search.

634
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:25.440
I can't filter by conversation name, not only user,

635
00:38:27.120 --> 00:38:34.280
and condition create group on being admin.

636
00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:46.480
So then if we go to the actual group chat interface,

637
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:49.880
this is like the chat UI itself,

638
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.880
and you guys might have better words for these things,

639
00:38:52.880 --> 00:39:01.920
but the thing I want to capture here is condition.

640
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.640
Do you call it the edit the group or rename the group?

641
00:39:06.640 --> 00:39:08.880
There's this pencil icon thing there.

642
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:10.880
I think edit, yeah.

643
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:12.480
Edit group, yeah.

644
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.520
Because you can do more than just add and remove.

645
00:39:15.560 --> 00:39:17.640
You can rename and add people in that.

646
00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:19.240
Got it. Okay.

647
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:22.880
So that's already making me think.

648
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.680
Okay, so we have this kind of create edit group thing.

649
00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:30.920
Okay, so this is kind of what seems to be outstanding here.

650
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:39.240
Have you guys already made? Okay.

651
00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:41.600
And for create edit, yes?

652
00:39:41.600 --> 00:39:46.600
I just want to note that we have to add the warnings

653
00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:48.920
for when you are editing the group,

654
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:51.320
that if you remove someone,

655
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.920
this person will lose access to the history.

656
00:39:55.040 --> 00:39:56.440
And if you add someone new,

657
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:59.760
this person will have access to the old history.

658
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.000
Yeah, good call.

659
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.000
Okay, let's look back

660
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.000
at, so I'm looking at the breadboard

661
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.000
to, let's

662
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.000
just look directly at the breadboard again, to understand

663
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.000
where, what we need to look at.

664
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.000
This

665
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.000
group feed post display name profile pop up open chat.

666
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.000
This was all related to the refactoring.

667
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
These parts, this isn't really, there aren't changes here related

668
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.000
to groups, is that right?

669
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:48.000
Doesn't, no, it doesn't change.

670
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
So would we expect if there were,

671
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.000
if there was outstanding work here in terms of something is broken or isn't doing what it should

672
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000
that tests would catch these things?

673
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.000
Tests should, yeah, exactly, existing tests would catch that.

674
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:08.000
Okay, new group chat pop up and

675
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:12.000
this, and this is also used for

676
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.000
editing. So edit group goes here.

677
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.000
Did we update this breadboard after you and I simplified it?

678
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
I just want to double check.

679
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.000
I'm just wondering if it's been updated.

680
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.000
I think it's not here, has been updated, but I don't know

681
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.000
what were the, what

682
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:40.000
are the updates missing? Because I think it's look like,

683
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.000
looks like we discussed it. I don't know.

684
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.000
Yeah, I think it's pretty accurate. Let's make sure we didn't change it and forget to update.

685
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.000
No, no, I think it's pretty accurate. Maybe some

686
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.000
something is more maybe missing, but I think it's like 80 to 90%

687
00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.000
accurate of what's happening right now.

688
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.000
File upload and voice note. These

689
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.000
are, are there changes here that have to do with the change to group

690
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.000
or are these about the refactoring?

691
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.000
Refactoring, yeah. Okay. Do you expect

692
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.000
tests to catch? Well, let's, let's actually, let's just capture those

693
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.000
because they are part of the work. So we're going to say voice note

694
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.000
refactoring. We're going to say file upload

695
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.000
refactoring. Now what I'm doing here is

696
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:36.000
I don't find it to be very realistic. There are teams

697
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.000
working in really like different domains where

698
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.000
they might want to constantly be updating the breadboard as a source of truth.

699
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.000
I'm not a fan of that. What I, what I, what I find usually is

700
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.000
that this work gets us to a point where we can start building

701
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
you know, and then what I, what I like

702
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.000
to do and find works best is I like to, when we're

703
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.000
in the building, to kind of switch to the

704
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:08.000
tasks and the scopes. Here the boxes are scopes and the tasks are the tasks

705
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.000
to becoming the source of truth.

706
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.000
Because then, because this can start to feel, it's

707
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.000
hard to know, like is this really up to date or not? But the thing is like the basic

708
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.000
concept probably hasn't changed. If we significantly reshape

709
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.000
the concept, then we would come back anyway to the breadboard in order

710
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:32.000
to do that, right? Like if we find out, oh, we need to

711
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.000
approach group chat editing very differently for some reason, you know what I mean?

712
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.000
Then maybe anyway we would be breadboarding. But if it's small changes

713
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
I would rather just kind of like, this was the intent of the concept

714
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
but this is kind of a source of truth, which is sort of referring to that, you know?

715
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.000
What else do we have here?

716
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:00.000
Push notifications. Yeah, I put a few things in the chat.

717
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.000
Just in the Zoom chat. Just sort of like group chat UI

718
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.000
there's two things and then voice notes there's two little items. I'm just basically

719
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.000
going to pull them out of Notion and then we have everything

720
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.000
on this board.

721
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.000
Yeah, group chat UI. Infinite scroll in

722
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.000
reverse chronological order.

723
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000
And mobile UI polish.

724
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.000
It's a little vague, but yeah, we'll leave it for now.

725
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.000
Audio on mobile not playing.

726
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.000
We have push notifications as another

727
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.000
kind of category of work, right?

728
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:07.000
I'm doing my best to slice vertically here, where these are things that we could work on independently.

729
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:14.000
Let's see. I'm not seeing much else here.

730
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:22.000
So I kind of feel already like we could go to the next step here, which is what I would actually like to do.

731
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:31.000
So if we could maybe take a look at... I don't have access to seeing your board here.

732
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:38.000
I think we could actually...

733
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Just in case this helps you, I'll press that.

734
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:47.000
Bruce, I ran into that before. For that, you need to have access to all projects and all tasks.

735
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:52.000
So maybe that's not practical. So let's do this instead. Let's switch to your sharing again.

736
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:58.000
Maybe Junauda, if you have it, or whoever has it handy. And I can screenshot it.

737
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:04.000
That's okay. I just gave it to you. It's just that it takes two seconds to share everything.

738
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:09.000
I'll just make you view only. That way you're not totally stuck in our entire world.

739
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Okay, let's see.

740
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:15.000
It's this rjs. Hey, there we go. View, invite.

741
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.000
Okay, so you should just be able to refresh, Brian, then.

742
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:22.000
That way we're not having to stop and start.

743
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:27.000
It's possible that I'm not actually logged in to... Yeah, it looks like I need to log in.

744
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:28.000
Let me try logging in.

745
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:33.000
Yeah, let me give you this link then.

746
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:43.000
I'm rjs.ryansinger.co. On Notion. Sorry.

747
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Ryansinger. Okay.

748
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:57.000
You said ryansinger.co.

749
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.000
It's rjs.ryansinger.co.

750
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.000
Oh, yeah, I see you here. Okay, cool.

751
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:10.000
Invite, and then...

752
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.000
Well, ignore all the extra invite emails.

753
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.000
Okay.

754
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:18.000
Here we go.

755
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:22.000
If only there was a really good task management, project management tool out there.

756
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.000
Yep.

757
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.000
We're about... Yeah, Notion is on its... I'm not convinced.

758
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:36.000
I'm even building something with friends because we need a better answer to this.

759
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.000
Yeah.

760
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:48.000
It's only a problem because we try to be extremely efficient, have one project database and one task database, and just everything is cross-shared.

761
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:55.000
So that's the problem with it is that it's totally up to us to build our own tool for it, essentially.

762
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.000
So anyway, you should be able to log in now.

763
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:06.000
I think I got you everywhere.

764
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:07.000
Okay, great.

765
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:11.000
So I am just looking for...

766
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:13.000
And then you can share your screen again once you're...

767
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.000
Admins and creators can start group DMs.

768
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:18.000
Yeah, I can share my screen again.

769
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.000
That's okay.

770
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.000
That wasn't too bad of a sidetrack.

771
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:23.000
So I can see tasks here.

772
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Very good.

773
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.000
Okay.

774
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:34.000
So I actually just want to take these one by one, and I want to put them into this scope view.

775
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:39.000
And again, this isn't about you guys changing your tooling, but this is about a different...

776
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.000
I want to look at this in terms of scopes because that's going to make it easier.

777
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.000
That makes this review moment much easier.

778
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:51.000
Maybe there's a way to chunk them into scopes here, but this is what's missing in a typical...

779
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.000
So what we have here is we have tasks, but we don't have scopes.

780
00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:00.000
So it's really hard for us to understand kind of like, are we actually checking off whole chunks of territory here?

781
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:07.000
And where are we in terms of the overall concept actually working and doing what it should?

782
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:11.000
So what I want to do is I want to be here and...

783
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:15.000
I just will say like, well, obviously we don't overhaul the entire tooling.

784
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:23.000
But I think the problem is when you pick a tool, you buy into someone else's workflow and thought process.

785
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:25.000
And so you end up adopting that.

786
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:33.000
And I would say across all of our projects, this little screen of the old way of doing it versus the new here on the right.

787
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:39.000
This would create a lot of clarity, especially when we're trying to communicate back to clients.

788
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Because they start clicking around things.

789
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.000
It's hard to...

790
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Same exact problem you had when you opened it.

791
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:47.000
You're like, I don't know.

792
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:51.000
I don't have status on what's working, what's not.

793
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.000
This would be a very helpful tool.

794
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:55.000
So maybe there's a way we can recreate it.

795
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000
But I love the visual of kind of...

796
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:00.000
We even found a good way to create these scopes.

797
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:14.000
Yes, I can give you this tool also, and what I've found is at the moment we don't have any kind of comment feature,

798
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:17.000
which is something that you were talking about needing when you're working asynchronously.

799
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.000
The benefit, though, is that when you have names for scopes and you only have nine,

800
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:26.000
it does make it a lot easier to have the Slack conversation, because you can just refer by name.

801
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:31.000
You're like, in push notifications, blah, blah, blah, and we kind of know what we're talking about.

802
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:36.000
And I think maybe you can already see what I'm trying to get to.

803
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:43.000
I want us to be able to jumpstart the conversation about what is the work, what's done, what's not done.

804
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:49.000
And we're going to see in a minute here how this helps us to go to the next step of what's known and unknown,

805
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:55.000
and what's first and what's last in terms of what's important here.

806
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:58.000
So that's what I'm trying to get to.

807
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.000
Lucien?

808
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:08.000
Yeah, I'm wondering if it could be just as simple as we change our habit to in the task title,

809
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:17.000
we just prepend it with voice note refactoring, colon, audio not playing, and then voice note refactoring,

810
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:25.000
so that we see at a glance, in our view, in the dev variety, we have three on voice note, two on file upload,

811
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.000
push notification totally done, that's in review, all the tasks that have to do with that.

812
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.000
To me, that makes sense.

813
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:36.000
And then we keep our habits of keeping the conversation just in notion.

814
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.000
So just an idea for us.

815
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:48.000
I'll leave that to you guys to deliberate over, because there's probably a lot of options there,

816
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.000
and that's where you guys are going to have to wrestle with some trade-offs.

817
00:51:51.000 --> 00:52:01.000
The upside of trying to hack the scopes into the tasks is you can, for example, sort,

818
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:04.000
and then they'll automatically group together if you sort alphabetically.

819
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000
You do get to stay in your tool and do your comments and stuff like that.

820
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:15.000
What you lose is that what I found in practice is that actually naming these and separating them correctly,

821
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:18.000
it often doesn't happen on the first try.

822
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:23.000
So what we might start to discover is that there's actually a chunk of things that are all mobile

823
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.000
that would make much more sense to do together, because maybe there's a different person involved,

824
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:31.000
or it's a different chunk of work, and you might all of a sudden say,

825
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.000
oh, actually, this stuff all belongs here.

826
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:36.000
You know what I mean?

827
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:44.000
And that kind of renaming or very quick kind of reorganizing of what we consider to be the scopes

828
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
is really expensive to do if it's kind of baked into all the title names and stuff like that.

829
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
Anyway, that's what I usually see.

830
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Usually there's a bit of churn to get to the right names of these things,

831
00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:00.000
and the benefit here is that all that stuff is just editable, and you're kind of not committing to that.

832
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:05.000
But like I said, I think we could easily talk for an hour just about tooling options,

833
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:10.000
and I want to make sure that we're talking about what you guys want to be talking about.

834
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.000
Great point. Thanks.

835
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:18.000
So, okay.

836
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Where we were was I was just trying to take what's in the old view into the new view,

837
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.000
and I think we're not far from that.

838
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Refactor file upload.

839
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:35.000
This was a task.

840
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.000
So, this is just a reminder.

841
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:38.000
Totally cool.

842
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:39.000
Totally reasonable.

843
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.000
This is just a reminder that there's still refactoring left.

844
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:48.000
So, like, I don't know what that is, but this isn't done.

845
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:51.000
So, this is kind of like a scope without tasks, right?

846
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:54.000
Like, I don't know what this actually means.

847
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:56.000
Is that helpful, by the way?

848
00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:59.000
If you've got some things, let's just drop them in.

849
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:08.000
Yeah, it's just you can say just, like, simplify video slash image slash file upload,

850
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:09.000
which is pretty much the same thing.

851
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:14.000
Basically, we used to have, like, four buttons, like, one button to upload a video,

852
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.000
one to upload an image, one to upload a file.

853
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:21.000
It was really silly, and so, like, users wouldn't know which one to click.

854
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.000
So, we really simplified it to just a single file.

855
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.000
It's something called a file, and then we'll just figure out what type of file it is,

856
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:31.000
and we'll do different things to it.

857
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:34.000
So, I've already got it mostly working, but there's, like, a UI piece now.

858
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:42.000
If you click file upload, like, a menu of four items pop up, which came in just with the refactor.

859
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.000
Ah, so, okay.

860
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:52.000
So, you have a, in the current interface, as where things stand right now,

861
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:57.000
you have a button, which you click, which then gives you kind of four more buttons?

862
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.000
Yes. Unnecessarily, yeah.

863
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.280
Uh-huh, and you want to condense that down to a single button?

864
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:08.680
Yeah, ideally it's just, yeah, you could say like single upload button could be potentially

865
00:55:08.680 --> 00:55:10.320
the task there.

866
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:13.440
And then you could just say like, I don't know if you want to put testing in here, but

867
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:18.960
like test for each file type essentially, because a video will be displayed with a video

868
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:22.640
player in the chat.

869
00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:27.200
So you, is it like a dedicated button directly for each type as opposed to burying the behind

870
00:55:27.200 --> 00:55:28.200
the general button?

871
00:55:28.560 --> 00:55:31.680
I'm just going to make a general button and you would just choose your file.

872
00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:37.160
And then when it's processing, it's going to basically determine if it's like how to

873
00:55:37.160 --> 00:55:39.600
display it into the, in the chat UI.

874
00:55:39.600 --> 00:55:40.600
Uh-huh.

875
00:55:40.600 --> 00:55:41.600
Uh-huh.

876
00:55:41.600 --> 00:55:42.600
Uh-huh.

877
00:55:42.600 --> 00:55:43.600
Okay.

878
00:55:43.600 --> 00:55:44.600
Right?

879
00:55:44.600 --> 00:55:45.600
That's great.

880
00:55:45.600 --> 00:55:46.600
Yep.

881
00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:47.600
Okay.

882
00:55:47.600 --> 00:55:59.400
So maybe what you're noticing here is already where we kind of have a space to very easily

883
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:06.720
create more concreteness around what this means.

884
00:56:06.720 --> 00:56:13.000
So this is kind of the, the similar to what we did with breadboarding where the breadboard

885
00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:14.440
helped us to clarify what it means.

886
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:16.040
This is kind of what we're doing here, right?

887
00:56:16.040 --> 00:56:18.960
Because we have the space now to just sort of spell this out a little bit more.

888
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:19.960
Okay, good.

889
00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:20.960
Um, AI moderation?

890
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:28.920
Um, kind of its own fact, um, and this is one of those things I'm potentially looking

891
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.280
to just to scope out for this release.

892
00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:32.280
It's built in.

893
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:34.720
I'm going to use a convention for that.

894
00:56:34.720 --> 00:56:36.880
This tilde is a very useful convention.

895
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.360
It means maybe we don't have to do this.

896
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:40.920
Great.

897
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:47.600
And it's a nice way to not throw it away and not yet say no, but to mark when you know,

898
00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:48.600
which is helpful later.

899
00:56:48.600 --> 00:56:53.280
So for example, like if there's anything here that is actually not a must have, we could

900
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:54.280
also mark it like that.

901
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:55.280
Do you know what I mean?

902
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:56.280
Yeah.

903
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.760
And that's a, that's a very handy thing.

904
00:56:57.760 --> 00:56:58.760
Okay.

905
00:56:58.760 --> 00:56:59.760
That's great.

906
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.760
Yeah.

907
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:01.760
What does this mean?

908
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:06.320
Or, or, or maybe we don't have to spell it out because it's all anyway, maybe not happening.

909
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:12.000
So it's, it is kind of working in production, but since we did the refactor, um, that got,

910
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:17.400
uh, we just put it aside first for a bit and I was basically, I massively simplified chat

911
00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:19.600
and then we slowly added all the features back.

912
00:57:19.600 --> 00:57:24.280
Um, so as I'm touching each of the features, I'm kind of simplifying and making them better

913
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:25.280
as I bring them back in.

914
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:34.120
Um, so AI was one that got, um, paused essentially for now, but that makes me feel so much better

915
00:57:34.120 --> 00:57:37.560
that your thing got a 500 here.

916
00:57:37.560 --> 00:57:47.720
This is totally alpha like used by, uh, uh, Oh yeah, there it is.

917
00:57:47.720 --> 00:57:48.720
Yeah.

918
00:57:48.720 --> 00:57:52.720
So yeah, this was from our, our first session, but first one, okay.

919
00:57:52.720 --> 00:57:53.720
Yeah.

920
00:57:53.720 --> 00:57:56.720
Um, yeah, good.

921
00:57:56.720 --> 00:57:57.720
Okay.

922
00:57:57.720 --> 00:58:00.720
Um, sorry.

923
00:58:00.720 --> 00:58:09.360
Um, we can break it into small, it's essentially just enabling, uh, the, the, uh, the AI moderation

924
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:18.880
API, um, and, um, and then just, you know, testing for, uh, just making sure it's, it's

925
00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:19.880
working.

926
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:26.200
We have a, it's a, uh, feature people, uh, our clients can turn on or turn off and most

927
00:58:26.200 --> 00:58:28.120
of them aren't using DMS.

928
00:58:28.120 --> 00:58:32.460
And I think some of them are using that, but it was a kind of a safety issue for people

929
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:36.640
to feel safe in the, in the chat, creating a safe space.

930
00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:41.780
So we just, every message and image that gets uploaded goes through, uh, AI moderation to

931
00:58:41.780 --> 00:58:46.800
check for, um, language or, you know, appropriate content.

932
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:47.800
I see.

933
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:48.800
Uh huh.

934
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:49.800
Okay.

935
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:50.800
Mm hmm.

936
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:51.800
Got it.

937
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:52.800
Okay.

938
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:53.800
Um, uh, infinite scroll on chat history.

939
00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:59.360
We have that now here that belong to the group chat UI test screen flow on mobile.

940
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:04.200
I kind of put that in the chat UI, that mobile polish piece.

941
00:59:04.200 --> 00:59:10.040
Um, what does that mean?

942
00:59:10.040 --> 00:59:17.400
Um, just, uh, so in, in desktop, you have like your, your conversation list components

943
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:21.060
on the left and your chat UI is on the right on mobile.

944
00:59:21.060 --> 00:59:23.560
Those are two separate pages almost.

945
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:25.320
Mm hmm.

946
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.080
So you're on the conversation list, you tap and you actually kind of goes to a new page,

947
00:59:28.080 --> 00:59:29.080
which is the new chat UI.

948
00:59:29.080 --> 00:59:30.080
Yeah.

949
00:59:30.080 --> 00:59:33.720
Just making sure we're getting in and out of those screens correctly, cause we've added,

950
00:59:33.720 --> 00:59:36.240
we changed quite a bit of the flow.

951
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:37.240
Um,

952
00:59:37.240 --> 00:59:38.240
Yeah.

953
00:59:38.240 --> 00:59:39.240
Great.

954
00:59:39.240 --> 00:59:40.240
Um, okay.

955
00:59:40.240 --> 00:59:53.880
Um, uh, group push notifications.

956
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:57.200
We have that captured here.

957
00:59:57.200 --> 01:00:00.000
So this would, I think we had something about sending.

958
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.000
all members of a group chat, like a notification.

959
01:00:08.060 --> 01:00:09.580
What were you thinking here, Jonatha?

960
01:00:09.580 --> 01:00:11.100
I think we talked a little bit about this.

961
01:00:11.100 --> 01:00:13.580
And also some of this is on the breadboard,

962
01:00:13.580 --> 01:00:16.400
if that's another view that might be helpful.

963
01:00:18.220 --> 01:00:20.140
What did we say?

964
01:00:20.140 --> 01:00:22.300
You've been added to a private group chat.

965
01:00:22.300 --> 01:00:24.700
This you decided wasn't necessary.

966
01:00:24.700 --> 01:00:27.900
New message for group name.

967
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:29.860
That's all we had here.

968
01:00:30.100 --> 01:00:32.980
Regarding the push notification flow,

969
01:00:32.980 --> 01:00:36.540
it's basically because at the current point,

970
01:00:36.540 --> 01:00:40.180
testing push notifications properly is kind of blocked

971
01:00:40.180 --> 01:00:42.780
because we haven't finished the work

972
01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.420
on the test on the mobile screens.

973
01:00:45.420 --> 01:00:49.620
So to test the push notifications for the group flow

974
01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:51.980
and for one-to-one message,

975
01:00:51.980 --> 01:00:54.380
actually, so we need to test for them both

976
01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:57.080
because one-to-one message will refactor as well.

977
01:00:57.080 --> 01:00:59.920
So we need to test if push notifications

978
01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:04.920
are working both on groups and, sorry.

979
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:09.920
I don't think you're muted, Chris, or whoever's that.

980
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:10.760
Oh, okay.

981
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:15.620
And for groups, you also need to test it.

982
01:01:17.680 --> 01:01:21.240
We've implemented in a way that we are kind of,

983
01:01:21.240 --> 01:01:22.840
that what I said there earlier,

984
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:27.840
we are kind of already using the send message flow

985
01:01:29.080 --> 01:01:31.200
to kind of notify users.

986
01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:32.680
So when we added the group

987
01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:35.240
or when we add someone to the group,

988
01:01:35.240 --> 01:01:38.240
we send this as a message to the conversation.

989
01:01:38.240 --> 01:01:41.760
So this should automatically trigger a push notifications

990
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.720
to the users in that group.

991
01:01:43.720 --> 01:01:47.920
But all this flows, yeah, that's why you kind of need to-

992
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:49.760
Now I understand what you meant,

993
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:52.160
that the system is leveraging

994
01:01:52.160 --> 01:01:56.380
the existing send message mechanism in order to,

995
01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:00.080
so you hacked the send message notification

996
01:02:00.080 --> 01:02:01.560
you already have.

997
01:02:01.560 --> 01:02:02.640
Uh-huh, okay.

998
01:02:02.640 --> 01:02:04.280
Is there any outstanding work with that?

999
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:06.600
Is that something that still has to be verified?

1000
01:02:06.600 --> 01:02:07.540
Is working?

1001
01:02:08.600 --> 01:02:11.320
All this flow that I've mentioned needs testing

1002
01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:14.780
because we weren't able to test all this

1003
01:02:14.780 --> 01:02:16.360
properly on mobile yet

1004
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:17.480
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

1005
01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:20.360
Because we are waiting for the,

1006
01:02:22.560 --> 01:02:24.080
for the,

1007
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:27.320
what, where is the task?

1008
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:33.600
Kind of what Bruce was telling about,

1009
01:02:33.600 --> 01:02:36.120
like in mobile we have two different screens,

1010
01:02:36.120 --> 01:02:39.760
one for a chat list and another one for the chat history.

1011
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:41.760
And this flow is not working.

1012
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.000
So we need to kind of,

1013
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:45.560
to make sure that this is working

1014
01:02:45.640 --> 01:02:47.760
before we can conclude the push notification.

1015
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:48.760
Very good.

1016
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:53.120
So this is an example of something that came up

1017
01:02:53.120 --> 01:02:57.240
where it breaks the verticality of the scopes.

1018
01:02:57.240 --> 01:03:00.280
So if I'm looking at things that we can,

1019
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:03.740
if I'm trying to get us victories earlier, you know,

1020
01:03:03.740 --> 01:03:05.400
things that we can mark off and say,

1021
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:08.800
this is done and we don't have to think about it anymore,

1022
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:11.780
this feels like it actually belongs here.

1023
01:03:13.240 --> 01:03:15.340
If I want to, if I want to be able to do these things,

1024
01:03:16.120 --> 01:03:17.340
I can't do them without this, right?

1025
01:03:17.340 --> 01:03:21.660
But I can, for example, I can condition the edit group

1026
01:03:21.660 --> 01:03:25.300
without caring about this mobile navigation

1027
01:03:25.300 --> 01:03:27.380
between the states, right?

1028
01:03:27.380 --> 01:03:30.420
So this is an example of trying to scope.

1029
01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:32.100
It teaches us a little bit about

1030
01:03:32.100 --> 01:03:34.460
how to slice the animal up, you know?

1031
01:03:34.460 --> 01:03:38.260
And my inclination is to move this here

1032
01:03:38.260 --> 01:03:42.460
and to say, this is actually mobile.

1033
01:03:42.460 --> 01:03:46.300
And my inclination is to try batching them.

1034
01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:47.620
This is an example, by the way,

1035
01:03:47.620 --> 01:03:49.660
of how it's nice to be able to just rename things

1036
01:03:49.660 --> 01:03:51.700
on the fly very quickly, you know?

1037
01:03:52.660 --> 01:03:54.940
Cause this starts to feel more like an achievable scope,

1038
01:03:54.940 --> 01:03:56.460
right, like make sure this is all fine

1039
01:03:56.460 --> 01:03:59.020
and then get the push notifications working, right?

1040
01:04:02.140 --> 01:04:03.620
Let's see.

1041
01:04:03.620 --> 01:04:04.980
Okay.

1042
01:04:04.980 --> 01:04:06.340
Implement user role restriction

1043
01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:07.500
for creating updating groups.

1044
01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:09.400
That's what we said here.

1045
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:11.380
And that's also what we said here,

1046
01:04:11.380 --> 01:04:12.500
but it's also interesting, right?

1047
01:04:12.500 --> 01:04:14.660
Because this starts to feel

1048
01:04:14.660 --> 01:04:17.740
like it's actually its own concern.

1049
01:04:17.740 --> 01:04:20.060
So my inclination here would be to say

1050
01:04:21.940 --> 01:04:23.620
user role restrictions.

1051
01:04:30.060 --> 01:04:31.820
And then just move these like this.

1052
01:04:33.420 --> 01:04:34.900
It's just another way to think about it.

1053
01:04:34.900 --> 01:04:36.140
There's no right way.

1054
01:04:36.140 --> 01:04:38.340
I'm just kind of seeing if we can get to a point

1055
01:04:38.340 --> 01:04:40.940
where it's a little bit easier to like see what's left

1056
01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:42.660
and have a full picture.

1057
01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:46.780
Testing mobile group messages.

1058
01:04:46.780 --> 01:04:48.220
This is what we talked about.

1059
01:04:50.340 --> 01:04:51.560
Implement user role restrictions.

1060
01:04:51.560 --> 01:04:53.820
We just talked about audio preview not playing

1061
01:04:55.940 --> 01:04:56.860
is an issue.

1062
01:04:59.700 --> 01:05:00.520
Yep.

1063
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.240
I think, yeah, sure.

1064
01:05:01.240 --> 01:05:04.600
We have to add to the voice note effector.

1065
01:05:04.600 --> 01:05:07.160
I had that in the mobile.

1066
01:05:07.160 --> 01:05:08.280
Where did we have that?

1067
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:10.400
Voice, yeah.

1068
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.480
That was just in the voice note.

1069
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:14.240
Audio on mobile not playing.

1070
01:05:14.240 --> 01:05:15.280
Got it, OK.

1071
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:16.920
Is that different from here now?

1072
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:19.680
Do you actually upload the audio now through here?

1073
01:05:19.680 --> 01:05:23.200
No, it's like a voice memo, where you tap to record

1074
01:05:23.200 --> 01:05:25.880
and it does a recording right on the interface.

1075
01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:27.480
It's something else, got it.

1076
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.000
Yeah, it's a little different.

1077
01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.160
Just one thing.

1078
01:05:31.160 --> 01:05:34.080
This preview that's tracked on Notion

1079
01:05:34.080 --> 01:05:37.000
is not working on the web as well.

1080
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:40.560
So it's not just on mobile.

1081
01:05:40.560 --> 01:05:42.920
The recording piece?

1082
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:47.920
Yeah, you can record, but when you stop recording,

1083
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:51.160
it stays a little preview on the text field.

1084
01:05:51.160 --> 01:05:53.760
And if you play it from there, it's not working.

1085
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:57.000
You have to save it to the chat and play it on the chat, yeah.

1086
01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:59.640
That's only if you want all the audio players to work, Gennaro.

1087
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:04.800
That's true.

1088
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:06.000
I did forget about that.

1089
01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:07.800
I will fix that.

1090
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:10.880
Preview isn't working on desktop, is that right?

1091
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:13.520
And probably on mobile as well, I believe it's possible.

1092
01:06:13.520 --> 01:06:17.520
Yeah, you could just say preview isn't working, period.

1093
01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:18.560
Yeah, uh-huh.

1094
01:06:23.320 --> 01:06:26.920
OK, I'm just a little bit erring on the side of being verbose.

1095
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.200
It's great.

1096
01:06:29.200 --> 01:06:31.320
And then I think we're coming to the end.

1097
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:33.160
Red flashing screen after sending message.

1098
01:06:33.160 --> 01:06:35.120
Does this belong to anything that we already

1099
01:06:35.120 --> 01:06:37.480
have here in terms of a certain area that we could?

1100
01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:38.000
Uh-huh.

1101
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:39.640
Yeah, just say, um.

1102
01:06:39.640 --> 01:06:42.360
Red flashing screen of death.

1103
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:49.560
Yeah, it's a null error, essentially.

1104
01:06:49.560 --> 01:06:51.720
It's the, we're laughing about it

1105
01:06:51.720 --> 01:06:56.560
because this is what was broken in the original code.

1106
01:06:56.560 --> 01:06:58.040
And then we decided to refactor it.

1107
01:06:58.040 --> 01:06:59.640
And then it was actually working for a little bit.

1108
01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:01.440
And then something we introduced basically

1109
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:03.960
brought the one thing back that we were trying to solve.

1110
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:08.560
So I was complaining to Gennaro about it yesterday.

1111
01:07:08.560 --> 01:07:10.640
But I'll look into it.

1112
01:07:10.640 --> 01:07:12.680
I skipped over one thing, which was this open chat

1113
01:07:12.680 --> 01:07:14.560
to one to bang chat.

1114
01:07:14.560 --> 01:07:17.280
I don't know what that is.

1115
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:18.720
I think that is, is that working?

1116
01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:19.880
I think it's working.

1117
01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:20.560
Yeah.

1118
01:07:20.560 --> 01:07:23.880
Like we just opened the chat, like.

1119
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:24.920
Yeah.

1120
01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.280
Or what is working properly?

1121
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:28.720
We can work that.

1122
01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:30.240
I mean, you can ignore that.

1123
01:07:30.240 --> 01:07:32.400
I think what we'll do is we'll take what we end up

1124
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:33.160
with this list.

1125
01:07:33.160 --> 01:07:35.480
And we'll update Notion after this

1126
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:38.120
to reflect what's on the new grid.

1127
01:07:38.120 --> 01:07:39.200
Yeah.

1128
01:07:39.200 --> 01:07:41.240
OK, then we've got infinite scroll.

1129
01:07:41.240 --> 01:07:44.200
No, we've got a clear search filter console messages

1130
01:07:44.200 --> 01:07:46.400
I also skipped over.

1131
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:49.680
Does that belong anywhere here?

1132
01:07:49.680 --> 01:07:52.720
Conversation list.

1133
01:07:52.720 --> 01:07:54.680
You can just say like, yeah, clear.

1134
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.480
OK, and then delete unused collections in Firebase.

1135
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:05.320
Does this belong to anything in particular?

1136
01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:08.880
Or is this something else?

1137
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:09.880
It doesn't.

1138
01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:15.040
But we could, again, this could be another tilde option.

1139
01:08:15.040 --> 01:08:17.760
It's just a tech debt cleanup that there

1140
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:21.880
are in some projects, like multiple collections that

1141
01:08:22.040 --> 01:08:24.040
are not used.

1142
01:08:24.040 --> 01:08:26.279
We're just kind of using as an excuse.

1143
01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:28.279
Yeah.

1144
01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:31.160
So there's a bunch of different techniques for how to do this.

1145
01:08:31.160 --> 01:08:32.960
But I don't want to stress on that,

1146
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:35.200
because I can feel anyway that this is maybe

1147
01:08:35.200 --> 01:08:38.120
heading back to Notion.

1148
01:08:38.120 --> 01:08:40.439
So I don't want to worry too much about perfecting this.

1149
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:43.279
I want to just kind of see what we can get out

1150
01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:44.760
of this in terms of next steps.

1151
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:46.800
So I'm at a place now where I feel

1152
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:49.399
like I have a good overview.

1153
01:08:49.439 --> 01:08:52.520
I feel like I have a 10,000-foot view I didn't have before

1154
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:56.920
about what the work is that's left here.

1155
01:08:56.920 --> 01:08:59.359
We would be seeing a bunch of checked off things

1156
01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:03.160
in these different scopes if we had done this from the start.

1157
01:09:03.160 --> 01:09:04.000
But that's fine.

1158
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:05.920
We're just looking at what's outstanding here.

1159
01:09:09.040 --> 01:09:17.160
So the first question that jumps out at me is, with a week left,

1160
01:09:17.160 --> 01:09:19.200
do you have any reactions, guys?

1161
01:09:19.200 --> 01:09:24.000
Any of you, in terms of what this means to you

1162
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:25.640
in terms of the amount of work?

1163
01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:27.520
Is there any immediate reaction to that?

1164
01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:29.359
Or does it still feel fine?

1165
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:41.680
I feel like there are a few points on the refactor that

1166
01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.960
could potentially become an issue.

1167
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:48.520
But I also feel like at the current point,

1168
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:51.960
we would be comfortable in releasing a version,

1169
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:52.720
for instance.

1170
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:53.359
I don't know.

1171
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:55.920
That's something for Bruce to answer for.

1172
01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:58.120
But at least in my view, the chat

1173
01:09:58.120 --> 01:10:01.000
is so much better now that.

1174
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.800
uh, I would be comfortable launching a version without the file upload, for instance,

1175
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:12.480
then going back to the other version. So even if we don't make it to everything within the one week,

1176
01:10:13.040 --> 01:10:18.000
I think the progress made is worth it. So we can kind of cut things down and still deliver.

1177
01:10:19.040 --> 01:10:21.920
Something that will look like progress to our customers.

1178
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:25.520
So I'm hearing yes, yes from Bruce. So I'm going to go right in with the tilde here.

1179
01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:31.200
Yeah. And, and I don't know if you were going to, I know I'm happy to use this when we're done with

1180
01:10:31.200 --> 01:10:36.000
it. I wouldn't have to move it to notion about this. This will be our new, uh, source if that

1181
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:41.360
makes it, but would you also re sort these potentially, like you can obviously conversation

1182
01:10:41.360 --> 01:10:45.760
list, you know, is more important than, so like the things that might not make it are going to

1183
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:52.800
be the last on the list potentially. So, um, what I like to do is, um, uh, we, I like to be

1184
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:58.800
very explicit about sequence. Now different teams have different attitudes towards things like this.

1185
01:10:58.800 --> 01:11:03.920
Some, some teams don't like having a stiff plan and some teams feel better with a plan.

1186
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:10.080
What I usually find helpful is to have one or two things that we mark as like, this is like the first

1187
01:11:10.080 --> 01:11:16.080
and second most important thing that we're going to do next. And, uh, um, I just use the sequence

1188
01:11:16.080 --> 01:11:21.840
feature for that. So this is just, just activating on and off. And that way I don't have to worry

1189
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:27.120
about the exact order of everything. You know, I can just kind of call out the maybe one and two

1190
01:11:27.120 --> 01:11:31.600
things that are the most important to do next, but there's, that's totally personal preference.

1191
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:36.080
Do you know what I mean? Like if, if, if you like to move all of the tilde stuff to the end

1192
01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:41.280
and kind of use just the position of things, you know, that's, that's just a kind of a preference thing.

1193
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:51.840
Um, uh, okay. So we are, this, I like this, this, um, what I like is that the negotiation is kind of

1194
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:57.680
happening right now around what's really important. Um, and we're kind of using our 10,000 foot view

1195
01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:03.360
to have the negotiation. What else, uh, what else, is there anything else that stands out here as like,

1196
01:12:03.360 --> 01:12:08.080
that could maybe push us beyond the week and we, we should question it?

1197
01:12:08.240 --> 01:12:14.400
The mobile, I mean, the push notifications, um, looks heavy just visually. I know there's like

1198
01:12:14.400 --> 01:12:22.400
four tasks in there. Um, it is potentially, uh, a rabbit hole just because we, it's, it's somewhat

1199
01:12:22.400 --> 01:12:29.120
difficult to test in some, uh, cases just because you have Android, iOS web, you're trying to test,

1200
01:12:29.120 --> 01:12:35.280
uh, and get, um, I don't know, maybe Jonathan is, he would probably be the one doing that.

1201
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:39.200
So I want to react to something you said when you said, by the way, I'm playing a similar game.

1202
01:12:39.200 --> 01:12:43.280
Remember when we were breadboarding, we had this little kind of game rule of like, everything we

1203
01:12:43.280 --> 01:12:49.040
say gets updated on the board. So I'm playing a similar game here, but in a different tool.

1204
01:12:49.040 --> 01:12:54.320
So here, what I heard was this might be rabbit holy. And I'm going to do, what I'm going to do

1205
01:12:54.320 --> 01:12:58.160
is I'm going to, this just for the current version of the way we do this is we just, we have a flag

1206
01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:05.120
and the flag means like, this is the flag. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to

1207
01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:13.280
danger. We could still decide that's orthogonal to whether this is in or out of scope. Right.

1208
01:13:14.160 --> 01:13:19.680
Those are two different questions. Um, uh, so there can be the discussion of whether this

1209
01:13:19.680 --> 01:13:26.160
is needed or not, but that's a way for us to mark, like this might be, this is by the, this,

1210
01:13:26.160 --> 01:13:31.360
you can think of this in shape up terms as the equivalent of a warning that this is uphill work.

1211
01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:33.680
You know, there's like a lot, we don't know about this still.

1212
01:13:36.480 --> 01:13:37.040
That's helpful.

1213
01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:42.960
Okay. Did you have, did you, uh, more, did you have more thoughts? I interrupted you about mobile

1214
01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:50.960
and push. No, I'm just going to see what you're not, uh, um, maybe, I mean, I have him overthinking

1215
01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:58.400
it. I just know there's a lot of, uh, those are kind of, uh, a weak area of the app right now is

1216
01:13:58.400 --> 01:14:02.320
getting a notification and getting taken down into the correct place. There's like a couple

1217
01:14:02.320 --> 01:14:06.960
other bug open bugs right now with that. So I just didn't know if that's like a,

1218
01:14:08.160 --> 01:14:16.400
it seems like you said, it's very, it's, it's uphill. Um, or am I overthinking it? Yeah.

1219
01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:24.240
Yeah, I agree with you. And I wanted to add that I feel like, uh, both like mobile and push

1220
01:14:24.240 --> 01:14:32.560
notifications and voice note, uh, especially for the mobile are items that, uh, I feel like they

1221
01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:39.760
could signify danger because, uh, of what Bruce highlighted of having to test between different

1222
01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:46.400
devices. And it's something that enough itself is something that takes longer because just to build,

1223
01:14:46.400 --> 01:14:53.280
uh, in iOS and Android, it's takes a lot of computer in machine. It's a slow process. You

1224
01:14:53.280 --> 01:14:58.240
have to wait for the build, uh, and you have to test between them. And if you do a fix,

1225
01:14:58.240 --> 01:14:59.840
you have to stop both builds and.

1226
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:01.060
Run again.

1227
01:15:01.060 --> 01:15:06.480
So just this process of going back and forth different, uh, operational

1228
01:15:06.480 --> 01:15:13.320
systems on mobile, uh, creates a kind of, uh, friction that would make me

1229
01:15:13.320 --> 01:15:17.780
wants to move this both down on prioritization list so we can get

1230
01:15:17.780 --> 01:15:20.040
everything else properly working.

1231
01:15:20.040 --> 01:15:25.140
And then we can address this kind of two items that could be slippery

1232
01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:26.780
slopes in terms of development.

1233
01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:27.600
Yeah.

1234
01:15:28.040 --> 01:15:31.740
I would agree, except the fact that we've kind of opened Pandora's

1235
01:15:31.740 --> 01:15:33.800
box on this by the refactor.

1236
01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:39.240
So like, uh, we either need to put it back to what it was or just push

1237
01:15:39.240 --> 01:15:43.080
through, like we're, it's kind of, you know, it's in a, uh, neither

1238
01:15:43.080 --> 01:15:46.360
fixed or, or, uh, broken state.

1239
01:15:46.360 --> 01:15:49.320
It's kind of in this, uh, in between phase.

1240
01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:53.560
Um, so we just need to figure out a solution there.

1241
01:15:53.720 --> 01:16:02.440
Um, because you said if the audio is not playing, um, but yeah.

1242
01:16:02.560 --> 01:16:05.800
And the other thing to do on all of these, it's another factor is

1243
01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:09.960
potentially just simplifying within the scope of these are like, uh,

1244
01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:13.400
do not, I like, I simplified everything down to like wave format for the

1245
01:16:13.400 --> 01:16:16.560
audio codec, which is apparently supposed to work on all three devices

1246
01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:19.720
instead of having two different codecs to deal with that we had in the previous

1247
01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:24.560
part is the key part, supposed at least in my experience, that was,

1248
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:26.360
that was not what happened.

1249
01:16:26.360 --> 01:16:31.560
Like, yeah, I know, like do some custom stuff for Android and for iOS.

1250
01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:33.720
And we can surely take this back.

1251
01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:39.080
And this probably, uh, won't take long in terms of what I feel is

1252
01:16:39.080 --> 01:16:42.080
just like, this is just doing, we know what needs to be done because

1253
01:16:42.080 --> 01:16:43.160
we have done on the past.

1254
01:16:43.160 --> 01:16:47.400
We have made voices not work, but they are just this flow of testing

1255
01:16:47.400 --> 01:16:51.200
between Android and iOS is something that takes more time.

1256
01:16:51.200 --> 01:16:56.360
So, but I don't think on mobile and push notifications, there are a

1257
01:16:56.360 --> 01:17:00.840
bit of unknown, but on voice is not like there's unknowns.

1258
01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:04.080
It's more like it, it will probably take a little longer because

1259
01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:05.560
of this back and forth.

1260
01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:06.120
I see.

1261
01:17:06.160 --> 01:17:09.160
It's, it's not so, it's not so much that it's an unknown.

1262
01:17:09.200 --> 01:17:13.800
It's more like, um, there you're pointing out that these things are

1263
01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:16.960
not quick things because of the back and forth that it's yeah.

1264
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:17.440
Totally.

1265
01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:17.960
Mm-hmm.

1266
01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:23.800
Um, I want to point out one thing, just another, um, when we, when we

1267
01:17:23.880 --> 01:17:27.760
have a scope kind of nicely defined, do you guys, did you guys just

1268
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:30.920
have the feeling like this almost feels like a little mini project?

1269
01:17:33.040 --> 01:17:37.600
It was like, there was all these kind of, it felt like its own thing

1270
01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:38.920
that you had to make decisions about.

1271
01:17:38.920 --> 01:17:41.840
And you're kind of making shaping or framing calls around, like, do we

1272
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:43.240
want to invest more time in this?

1273
01:17:43.240 --> 01:17:44.280
Do we pull it back?

1274
01:17:44.280 --> 01:17:45.840
Like, what is it, how do we deal with it?

1275
01:17:45.840 --> 01:17:48.960
Like, that's kind of a good, it's kind of a nice feeling when you're

1276
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:51.520
working at the scope level, when it sort of feels like that, you know?

1277
01:17:53.160 --> 01:17:53.520
Yeah.

1278
01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:58.120
I mean, we, we are, I mean, we've literally put projects within projects.

1279
01:17:58.240 --> 01:18:03.720
Uh, the first being, you know, an entire refactor, uh, of the entire, of the

1280
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:08.240
entire module, which was built over the course of, I don't know, two months

1281
01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:10.640
previously, and then we rebuilt it in a weekend.

1282
01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:14.560
So yeah, I mean, we're, we're, we're in pretty deep, I think, and this

1283
01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:18.000
may be, I did have a question, which we can address now, maybe this is a

1284
01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:20.120
good time to address it about projects.

1285
01:18:20.120 --> 01:18:24.280
Because you mentioned something which kind of haunted stuck with me for a few

1286
01:18:24.280 --> 01:18:29.080
days after we talked, but we were talking about framing and you were like, I don't

1287
01:18:29.080 --> 01:18:33.080
think you're really convinced, or I'm not so convinced about that the framing or

1288
01:18:33.080 --> 01:18:38.400
the why it is accurate here that I'm, I'm even convinced myself that, that what

1289
01:18:38.400 --> 01:18:40.640
I'm telling you is, is, is the truth.

1290
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:43.360
As far as like, this is the most important thing that we go work on.

1291
01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:49.040
Um, and so to me, we're kind of, we are doing a lot of different things as a team

1292
01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:53.920
and we're trying to, uh, scale horizontally as well to have more people.

1293
01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:57.080
Like, but I wanted to get our process dialed, obviously working with, with you

1294
01:18:57.080 --> 01:19:02.360
and kind of get our core, um, like workflow down as a team before we start

1295
01:19:02.400 --> 01:19:04.960
bringing to, you know, new people in to that.

1296
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:08.560
But right now, because we're doing a lot of different things, our tensions

1297
01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:09.360
on a lot of different things.

1298
01:19:09.360 --> 01:19:13.520
Now we're, we're kind of all focused on DMs right now for tribes.

1299
01:19:13.520 --> 01:19:17.520
So we're like, to me, like whatever we ship next week is probably the last time

1300
01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:22.600
we'll look at DMs for the year, like realistically, unless someone

1301
01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:23.840
complains and something breaks.

1302
01:19:24.280 --> 01:19:26.960
Um, you know, we've just got other things potentially we're

1303
01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:29.360
wanting to, to, to go into after that.

1304
01:19:29.760 --> 01:19:33.760
Um, so I don't know how we sort of weigh, this may be sort of zooming way out

1305
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:36.560
then, like, cause, cause that's just came up as we're thinking like, Oh,

1306
01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:37.680
maybe that's another project.

1307
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:40.680
I'm like, I'm just thinking like, if we don't do it this week, like, I

1308
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:42.360
don't think we'll do it this year.

1309
01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:45.720
No, that's, that's, that's, I'm really glad you, you, you mentioned that

1310
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:47.600
because I should use different language.

1311
01:19:48.320 --> 01:19:52.920
What I like about where we got to is not that this is another project, but that

1312
01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:58.360
it, it, it got untangled from everything else, so this isn't a few, this isn't a

1313
01:19:58.360 --> 01:20:00.000
few things mixed into the rest.

1314
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:04.440
to this DM thing, it's carved apart,

1315
01:20:04.440 --> 01:20:07.920
and I like how it's presenting itself now for a decision.

1316
01:20:07.920 --> 01:20:10.400
Like, okay, we don't wanna actually take this on

1317
01:20:10.400 --> 01:20:11.960
as an additional project,

1318
01:20:11.960 --> 01:20:13.800
and it's part of this DM thing, right?

1319
01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:15.940
And we don't wanna spend more time on DMs.

1320
01:20:15.940 --> 01:20:18.920
So therefore, as you look at the fact

1321
01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:21.200
that there's only a week left,

1322
01:20:21.200 --> 01:20:25.800
that should help to make a decision about like,

1323
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:28.760
how do we deal with this so that we can walk away from it?

1324
01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:31.660
Maybe it's reverting, maybe it's something else,

1325
01:20:31.660 --> 01:20:32.860
but you know what I mean?

1326
01:20:35.640 --> 01:20:37.940
What we wanna be able to do is to have that conversation

1327
01:20:37.940 --> 01:20:40.680
about this whole chunk and to get to a clear place of like,

1328
01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:42.400
oh, if this isn't worth it,

1329
01:20:42.400 --> 01:20:46.440
then we're gonna either like not do this,

1330
01:20:46.440 --> 01:20:47.960
or we're gonna figure out what is the task

1331
01:20:47.960 --> 01:20:49.560
that gets us out of this work.

1332
01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:50.400
Yeah.

1333
01:20:57.160 --> 01:20:58.440
That's good.

1334
01:20:58.440 --> 01:21:00.240
I mean, the first task there, obviously,

1335
01:21:00.240 --> 01:21:03.480
is like revert or refactor, essentially.

1336
01:21:05.400 --> 01:21:10.400
So, yeah, I'm sure it'd probably be like

1337
01:21:11.040 --> 01:21:16.040
at least an hour or two to revert it, potentially,

1338
01:21:16.520 --> 01:21:18.120
because now we've obviously changed

1339
01:21:18.120 --> 01:21:19.440
quite a bit of the code base.

1340
01:21:20.320 --> 01:21:22.120
So potentially now, like, you know,

1341
01:21:22.120 --> 01:21:24.800
we could end up spending more time on that.

1342
01:21:24.800 --> 01:21:27.120
What I'd probably, and tell me this is the way

1343
01:21:27.120 --> 01:21:28.120
I'd sort of approach it, would be like,

1344
01:21:28.120 --> 01:21:32.440
I'd give myself a time box, like four hours, five hours.

1345
01:21:32.440 --> 01:21:36.480
If I can get it 80, 90% in five hours,

1346
01:21:36.480 --> 01:21:37.920
we'll make that call.

1347
01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:39.760
If it looks like it's going to a second day,

1348
01:21:39.760 --> 01:21:42.260
then let's like back out and simplify.

1349
01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:47.480
And also just looking at the division of like energy here,

1350
01:21:47.480 --> 01:21:52.480
like Jonathan is pretty much running the first row

1351
01:21:53.040 --> 01:21:54.880
is all him.

1352
01:21:54.880 --> 01:21:57.720
And then I'm only doing the voice notes right now

1353
01:21:57.720 --> 01:22:00.600
because I was doing file upload.

1354
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:02.400
I was doing AI moderation.

1355
01:22:03.480 --> 01:22:06.840
So those things we pulled off already.

1356
01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:08.040
That's actually the only thing I have to do

1357
01:22:08.040 --> 01:22:10.120
is maybe potentially the voice note.

1358
01:22:10.120 --> 01:22:13.040
And then, and maybe that filtering

1359
01:22:13.040 --> 01:22:14.480
the console messages, potentially.

1360
01:22:14.480 --> 01:22:17.440
But is that right, Jonathan, is that how you're seeing it?

1361
01:22:18.280 --> 01:22:20.040
Or is that the only one I was going to do?

1362
01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:26.440
Yeah, I think maybe this one

1363
01:22:26.440 --> 01:22:31.440
and the first one from mobile and push notifications

1364
01:22:33.440 --> 01:22:35.560
and all the other ones, I believe.

1365
01:22:36.680 --> 01:22:40.040
I can even do the first one, like, but.

1366
01:22:40.040 --> 01:22:43.560
That's not, yeah, that was not all tasks.

1367
01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:45.480
Some of them are like 10 minute tasks.

1368
01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:49.680
Yeah, and the infinite scroll, I see.

1369
01:22:49.680 --> 01:22:52.400
I was thinking, I think I had that one assigned to me,

1370
01:22:52.400 --> 01:22:53.760
the group chat UI potentially.

1371
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:57.160
But like, it's not an, you know,

1372
01:22:57.160 --> 01:23:00.160
if Jonathan was doing the other five and this is one thing,

1373
01:23:00.160 --> 01:23:03.000
even if this was 50% of what's left, if that makes sense,

1374
01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:06.960
like this voice note refactoring could be 50% of the work

1375
01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:11.560
in theory of the next week and still be okay.

1376
01:23:12.440 --> 01:23:17.440
Yeah, this is something I also have a feeling that

1377
01:23:19.240 --> 01:23:22.320
as we do the shaping process more truly

1378
01:23:22.320 --> 01:23:26.040
and like do it better, I think it was a lot easier

1379
01:23:26.040 --> 01:23:29.960
to kind of tackle the problem from different angles.

1380
01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:32.560
And Bruce was able to like made a lot of progress

1381
01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:36.760
that was kind of easy to connect with what was doing.

1382
01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:38.800
And that's exactly what happened.

1383
01:23:38.840 --> 01:23:40.760
We kind of sliced the monster

1384
01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:44.360
and kind of each one went in a way.

1385
01:23:44.360 --> 01:23:46.480
And then at the current point,

1386
01:23:46.480 --> 01:23:49.120
we are kind of merging everything together

1387
01:23:49.120 --> 01:23:51.080
and testing everything,

1388
01:23:51.080 --> 01:23:53.960
which is kind of what's being reflected here

1389
01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:55.760
on this new board that we are creating.

1390
01:23:55.760 --> 01:24:00.680
So yeah, and that was something that I believe

1391
01:24:00.680 --> 01:24:03.640
it was a nice extra from the shaping process

1392
01:24:03.640 --> 01:24:06.600
because originally I was going to tackle this issue

1393
01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:08.960
almost by myself.

1394
01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.920
And then when we did the shaping,

1395
01:24:11.920 --> 01:24:14.520
it was like this raised a problem

1396
01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:18.840
and Bruce kind of was moved toward that direction

1397
01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:20.720
and was able to make a lot of progress

1398
01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:22.560
because of the decisions we had made

1399
01:24:22.560 --> 01:24:24.240
and the understanding we had.

1400
01:24:24.240 --> 01:24:28.000
And from that, we kind of build upon that.

1401
01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:30.800
So I feel like the decision

1402
01:24:30.800 --> 01:24:33.200
to kind of revert to the refactoring

1403
01:24:33.200 --> 01:24:35.520
is kind of very not risky,

1404
01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:38.720
but I don't know, I think it's more,

1405
01:24:38.720 --> 01:24:40.760
we can kind of try to approach this.

1406
01:24:40.760 --> 01:24:42.880
And since we are doing it,

1407
01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:44.360
me and Bruce at the same time,

1408
01:24:44.360 --> 01:24:46.880
I think it's something totally doable

1409
01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:51.880
to have this first version of refactoring done.

1410
01:24:52.920 --> 01:24:56.080
At least in my view, I would feel comfortable

1411
01:24:56.080 --> 01:24:58.760
like maybe releasing one version

1412
01:24:58.760 --> 01:25:00.080
that has an issue in.

1413
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:07.800
a specific platform, for instance, maybe audios recorded on the web won't be able to be played

1414
01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:13.760
on Android on the first version, but I believe in even so it will be a better release than

1415
01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:15.800
the current chat that we have.

1416
01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:20.160
So yeah, that's how I'm thinking about it.

1417
01:25:20.160 --> 01:25:21.160
Yeah, cool.

1418
01:25:21.160 --> 01:25:22.160
Yeah.

1419
01:25:22.160 --> 01:25:23.160
Yeah.

1420
01:25:23.160 --> 01:25:27.800
Kind of one thing I heard in that was like, we're taking a slightly different view on

1421
01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:34.360
the tasks right now, which is more about how does it all integrate and what scope gets

1422
01:25:34.360 --> 01:25:38.120
left out and what scope do we want to bring over the finish line?

1423
01:25:38.120 --> 01:25:42.760
So it kind of comes back to that, well, the way that I wanted to sort of frame the session

1424
01:25:42.760 --> 01:25:48.600
that it's, you can track everything in tasks and that's a valid approach.

1425
01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:54.520
It's just that this style overview is a little bit more about how does it come together and

1426
01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:59.720
about having the negotiations around the scope as opposed to the status of many, many individual

1427
01:25:59.720 --> 01:26:00.720
things.

1428
01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:08.680
I've got one thing I wanted to raise looking at all this, which is my instinct, my first

1429
01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:12.200
instinct is to flag this.

1430
01:26:12.200 --> 01:26:17.760
And then I want to like, almost like check the shaping of this before I unflag it.

1431
01:26:17.760 --> 01:26:24.040
So it's kind of like, because when I look at the breadboard for how this warning happens

1432
01:26:24.040 --> 01:26:30.520
and I look at what's built in the demo that we saw, I don't have a clear sense of like,

1433
01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:35.640
where does this appear and when does this appear?

1434
01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:44.560
And is it an easy drop in with everything that's already built or does it in any way

1435
01:26:44.560 --> 01:26:47.720
conflict with what's already built?

1436
01:26:47.720 --> 01:26:50.520
So this is kind of a question.

1437
01:26:50.520 --> 01:26:53.640
So maybe Gennaro, do you have any thoughts on that?

1438
01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:54.640
Sure.

1439
01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:55.640
Yeah.

1440
01:26:55.640 --> 01:27:04.640
The way I was seeing it was kind of literally just adding the warnings when the model, which

1441
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:11.680
it's the new group chat pop-up, but, and that we are using for creating and editing, but

1442
01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:20.400
when it's on edit mode, then below the search users and add users flow, we could add a small

1443
01:27:20.400 --> 01:27:25.240
warning like remove users not to be able to see the history, new added users will be

1444
01:27:25.240 --> 01:27:28.480
able to see the whole history.

1445
01:27:28.480 --> 01:27:35.360
It's kind of a quick way to solve it without having to do any kind of complicated logic

1446
01:27:35.360 --> 01:27:38.880
because it's just kind of, Hey, this is an edit mode right now.

1447
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:43.280
So we can show these warnings below the pop-up.

1448
01:27:43.280 --> 01:27:44.280
Got it.

1449
01:27:44.280 --> 01:27:49.760
So what I'm hearing from that is, it's a little bit like a detail from the shape that if we

1450
01:27:49.760 --> 01:27:53.920
put it into the shape, then I kind of feel like, okay, I can see that, that it's like,

1451
01:27:53.920 --> 01:28:00.240
there's actually an affordance, an affordance in this pop-up in this dialogue, which is

1452
01:28:00.240 --> 01:28:05.920
kind of always there, but sometimes invisible that, you know, where it goes, you know, where

1453
01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:10.000
it appears and it sometimes turns on and sometimes turns off depending on the state.

1454
01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:11.000
Is that right?

1455
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:12.000
Yeah, exactly.

1456
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:13.000
I can.

1457
01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:14.000
I'm.

1458
01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:15.000
Yeah.

1459
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:16.000
I don't have permission.

1460
01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:18.040
I was going to edit, but I don't have the permission for that.

1461
01:28:18.040 --> 01:28:19.040
Oh, sorry.

1462
01:28:19.320 --> 01:28:20.320
Did it already send it?

1463
01:28:20.320 --> 01:28:23.440
I can just hit it.

1464
01:28:23.440 --> 01:28:31.080
This is a place by the way, where if you want this, where we, it, we could have a little

1465
01:28:31.080 --> 01:28:36.080
bit of technical detail added to the breadboard, but I think it's I want to make sure that

1466
01:28:36.080 --> 01:28:39.440
we use the last 30 minutes on what you guys want to focus it on.

1467
01:28:39.440 --> 01:28:43.720
So we can come back to that if you like how to annotate, what would it look like to annotate

1468
01:28:43.720 --> 01:28:47.040
that here, you know?

1469
01:28:47.040 --> 01:28:50.000
So, but if, okay, so, but that's enough for me.

1470
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:59.040
So this is, this is an example of we had this here on the scope, had to raise the question,

1471
01:28:59.040 --> 01:29:01.640
do we actually know how to do that?

1472
01:29:01.640 --> 01:29:04.680
For example, because if you had to do the warning on a separate screen, then there would

1473
01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:09.120
be this question of like, do you have to transport the data of the uncommitted change like to

1474
01:29:09.120 --> 01:29:10.200
some further screen?

1475
01:29:10.200 --> 01:29:11.200
You know what I mean?

1476
01:29:11.200 --> 01:29:14.200
Like some complexity could appear there, but that's not the case.

1477
01:29:14.200 --> 01:29:22.040
So my instinct is to say, this isn't, I'm going to remove the flag, this isn't an issue.

1478
01:29:22.040 --> 01:29:27.640
It does belong to create edit group, just as we thought, and everything is fine there,

1479
01:29:27.640 --> 01:29:28.640
you know?

1480
01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:37.400
If, if you guys had more than a week left, if this was a, if this was like, if there

1481
01:29:37.400 --> 01:29:45.120
were three weeks left in the project, I would want to be using the sequence piece of this

1482
01:29:45.120 --> 01:29:48.800
to, I would want to be talking about like, what's the thing we're going to look at together

1483
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:51.480
next week, you know what I mean?

1484
01:29:51.480 --> 01:29:58.200
And, but with only a week left, it doesn't really feel meaningful.

1485
01:29:58.200 --> 01:29:59.200
I don't know.

1486
01:29:59.200 --> 01:29:59.960
Do, do, Bruce, do you?

1487
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:02.940
Do you have any sense of like, there's something here

1488
01:30:02.940 --> 01:30:06.520
that I especially want us to focus on

1489
01:30:06.520 --> 01:30:08.920
that we are all going to get that thing answered

1490
01:30:08.920 --> 01:30:10.240
first or second or third?

1491
01:30:14.080 --> 01:30:17.960
I think, I mean, to me, everything feels known.

1492
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:20.040
And I think there's also priorities here,

1493
01:30:20.040 --> 01:30:23.000
like the order you've got them in that top row, I think,

1494
01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:26.640
is a great first thing to focus on for Junauda.

1495
01:30:26.640 --> 01:30:29.560
I think if I just chip away at the voice note piece,

1496
01:30:29.560 --> 01:30:33.760
we'll kind of make by, let's say, tomorrow or Thursday,

1497
01:30:33.760 --> 01:30:36.520
we'd be making that decision on,

1498
01:30:36.520 --> 01:30:39.000
do we go or freeze where we are right now

1499
01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:41.640
and just put the old version back

1500
01:30:41.640 --> 01:30:44.280
just so we can publish it?

1501
01:30:44.280 --> 01:30:47.720
Because there's probably like, I'm with Junauda,

1502
01:30:47.720 --> 01:30:50.840
like we fixed 30 other small things

1503
01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:54.960
that didn't even get tracked in Notion or here

1504
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:56.560
that we just fixed by refactoring

1505
01:30:56.560 --> 01:30:57.720
that's just cleaner and better.

1506
01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:01.400
So the overall module is more solid.

1507
01:31:01.400 --> 01:31:03.440
And now we've also added the group chat feature.

1508
01:31:03.440 --> 01:31:08.200
So potentially, it would be great to move forward,

1509
01:31:08.200 --> 01:31:12.520
even if we revert just that one voice note feature back.

1510
01:31:12.520 --> 01:31:15.200
But then that's the only thing that feels unknown to me

1511
01:31:15.200 --> 01:31:18.800
is just that piece that I would want to focus on.

1512
01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:22.280
I mean, if we had an extra week, maybe that was your question.

1513
01:31:22.280 --> 01:31:25.400
Like, if we had more budget, where would we spend it?

1514
01:31:25.400 --> 01:31:26.720
Is that the question?

1515
01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:31.160
Yeah, I think it's just maybe not relevant here.

1516
01:31:31.160 --> 01:31:36.160
If these things were bigger and the project was bigger,

1517
01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:37.880
you know what I mean?

1518
01:31:37.880 --> 01:31:39.800
Then you might want to be aligned

1519
01:31:39.800 --> 01:31:41.640
on what's the thing we're all gonna look at

1520
01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:45.120
and feel better that we're making progress next week.

1521
01:31:45.120 --> 01:31:46.000
You know what I mean?

1522
01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:48.200
But I just don't think that's the case here.

1523
01:31:48.200 --> 01:31:51.000
There are bigger projects where it's like,

1524
01:31:51.000 --> 01:31:52.240
this is the most important thing

1525
01:31:52.240 --> 01:31:54.600
and we all wanna see this solved next week.

1526
01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:55.640
You know what I mean?

1527
01:31:56.240 --> 01:31:57.480
But where we're at right now,

1528
01:31:57.480 --> 01:31:59.880
it doesn't make sense to really pull anything out,

1529
01:31:59.880 --> 01:32:01.920
I don't think, because it's kind of like,

1530
01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:03.680
it's more like all of this should be done

1531
01:32:03.680 --> 01:32:05.600
and we feel like it's reasonable.

1532
01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:07.280
Yeah, if we had two weeks instead of one week,

1533
01:32:07.280 --> 01:32:09.760
I'd probably say like, hey, by this time next week,

1534
01:32:09.760 --> 01:32:14.000
let's have voice notes done or totally refactored

1535
01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:16.640
so that it wouldn't be a factor anymore

1536
01:32:16.640 --> 01:32:18.960
and then we could just focus on the other stuff.

1537
01:32:18.960 --> 01:32:22.280
Because that, to me, there's just some,

1538
01:32:22.280 --> 01:32:27.280
we could end up, either kind of go, no go on that piece.

1539
01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:30.920
I think that would probably, for me and Jonathan,

1540
01:32:30.920 --> 01:32:33.280
feel more manageable, more con,

1541
01:32:33.280 --> 01:32:35.120
like that just feels a little bit

1542
01:32:35.120 --> 01:32:38.000
like a wild card right now still, so.

1543
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:41.040
And the first item from this one,

1544
01:32:41.040 --> 01:32:42.880
I believe from this one,

1545
01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:44.960
mark the mobile and push notifications.

1546
01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:47.000
If we were able to get the first one done,

1547
01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:48.400
I believe it would be like,

1548
01:32:49.360 --> 01:32:52.200
because it also unlocks a lot of things.

1549
01:32:53.120 --> 01:32:54.560
Regarding mobile testing.

1550
01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:58.040
Usually, this is a pattern that the flags

1551
01:32:58.040 --> 01:33:00.480
are usually the things that we end up deciding

1552
01:33:00.480 --> 01:33:01.920
we wanna do first,

1553
01:33:01.920 --> 01:33:03.480
because we don't wanna leave that

1554
01:33:03.480 --> 01:33:05.160
until we think we're at the end of the project

1555
01:33:05.160 --> 01:33:06.360
and we only have a day left

1556
01:33:06.360 --> 01:33:09.240
and then it turns out that there's a bunch of issues here.

1557
01:33:09.240 --> 01:33:13.960
So when you just have one thing flagged,

1558
01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:16.800
I don't think it's really necessary to sequence,

1559
01:33:16.800 --> 01:33:19.800
but if we wanted to, we could kind of say that like,

1560
01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:23.440
you know, we wanna have answers

1561
01:33:23.440 --> 01:33:25.920
to these things very early, right?

1562
01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:27.520
Because the rest of this is kind of like,

1563
01:33:27.520 --> 01:33:29.400
it sounds like very known

1564
01:33:29.400 --> 01:33:32.000
and it's more just a matter of getting it done.

1565
01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:33.360
Does that sound reasonable?

1566
01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:35.480
That's good.

1567
01:33:37.880 --> 01:33:38.720
Okay.

1568
01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:43.600
I feel like we got to the point

1569
01:33:43.600 --> 01:33:47.600
where we've updated on what's working

1570
01:33:47.600 --> 01:33:49.240
and what's not working.

1571
01:33:49.320 --> 01:33:53.040
We've created an integrated picture of what scope is left,

1572
01:33:53.040 --> 01:33:55.600
what would it mean to finish the different pieces

1573
01:33:55.600 --> 01:33:57.280
of the things that we shaped?

1574
01:33:57.280 --> 01:34:01.080
And we have clarity around next steps

1575
01:34:01.080 --> 01:34:03.360
of what should be happening next

1576
01:34:03.360 --> 01:34:04.560
and what is the next,

1577
01:34:04.560 --> 01:34:06.800
what is the remaining week look like?

1578
01:34:06.800 --> 01:34:11.800
So to me, this kind of feels like a successful review.

1579
01:34:12.160 --> 01:34:16.920
Do you guys feel like there's anything hanging here?

1580
01:34:20.240 --> 01:34:22.080
This feels good.

1581
01:34:23.520 --> 01:34:25.920
I would just love to hear from Chris or Lurchin.

1582
01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:29.920
I know Jonathan and I have taken up all the dialogue here,

1583
01:34:29.920 --> 01:34:32.400
but you guys are looking at this probably

1584
01:34:32.400 --> 01:34:34.960
through other projects, other clients as well.

1585
01:34:34.960 --> 01:34:38.520
Like any thoughts on this flow or this project?

1586
01:34:41.800 --> 01:34:45.400
Well, to me, it feels like it's a good alternative tool

1587
01:34:45.400 --> 01:34:46.360
because I was doing like with like

1588
01:34:46.360 --> 01:34:47.960
just individual task reviews.

1589
01:34:48.200 --> 01:34:50.160
So I haven't like got a scope level.

1590
01:34:51.320 --> 01:34:54.120
It's a better tool for like decision-making for sure.

1591
01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:58.200
This project itself like seems like pretty clear.

1592
01:34:58.200 --> 01:35:00.560
I don't see like red flags or anything like that.

1593
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:05.160
I was like curious about, um, well, we talked about earlier, like, how do we

1594
01:35:05.160 --> 01:35:07.760
expose like backend details in the breadboarding?

1595
01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:13.920
So if we have time up for you to get to that, or if you have like research,

1596
01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:17.400
can you just like point me to like, I'll watch this video or like read this.

1597
01:35:18.080 --> 01:35:18.880
I don't yet.

1598
01:35:18.880 --> 01:35:20.680
Cause this is new, but it's, it's quick.

1599
01:35:20.680 --> 01:35:23.000
So I'll just give you the quick version of that.

1600
01:35:23.560 --> 01:35:31.280
Um, so let's take, uh, let's take this as an example here.

1601
01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:39.240
Um, let me just, um, copy a couple, let me just give myself some presets.

1602
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:46.600
Um, so what, what I've been finding pretty useful so far, but this is a

1603
01:35:46.600 --> 01:35:54.760
little bit still R and D is, um, is we, we, is place and affordance is

1604
01:35:54.760 --> 01:35:56.120
what we've been using so far.

1605
01:35:57.640 --> 01:36:00.640
And then we have, uh, two other elements.

1606
01:36:01.840 --> 01:36:06.840
One of them is just this gray box and this gray box just simply is, is for

1607
01:36:06.840 --> 01:36:09.160
something that's happening on the backend instead of the front end.

1608
01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:13.360
And I've been finding two conventions to be useful for this.

1609
01:36:13.680 --> 01:36:18.360
Um, I have, this is a little bit language coming from the event source world, but

1610
01:36:18.360 --> 01:36:22.720
you don't have to be, most people aren't event sourced, you know, so that that's

1611
01:36:22.720 --> 01:36:26.840
not a, it doesn't matter, but in the event source world, you have this notion

1612
01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:30.120
of a read model, which is really similar to, I don't know if you guys

1613
01:36:30.120 --> 01:36:31.200
have experienced with react.

1614
01:36:31.200 --> 01:36:35.320
It's the same notion as the props that you have to, for a react component.

1615
01:36:35.720 --> 01:36:39.360
And it's also the same notion as like in a rails app, all the instance bars

1616
01:36:39.360 --> 01:36:42.720
that you're, that you're preparing in a controller, you know, there's like

1617
01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:46.200
basically like, what's the state that you, what's the shape of the state

1618
01:36:46.200 --> 01:36:47.560
that you need to hand to the view.

1619
01:36:48.160 --> 01:36:56.200
So if there, if we want to specify, so let's say this is, um, create slash

1620
01:36:56.240 --> 01:37:00.120
edit group chat, right?

1621
01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:04.840
And, um, let me just look at what you had for that event.

1622
01:37:05.240 --> 01:37:07.320
You had search users.

1623
01:37:08.240 --> 01:37:11.880
You had list of added people.

1624
01:37:13.520 --> 01:37:16.680
You had new group name.

1625
01:37:17.080 --> 01:37:23.360
Uh, and then we had a, we had a create button.

1626
01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:23.760
Okay.

1627
01:37:23.760 --> 01:37:29.360
So if we just take this as an example, if this was just looking at it through

1628
01:37:29.360 --> 01:37:34.440
the, uh, uh, a little bit, like, I'm just going to take this kind of react style

1629
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:41.480
approach, let's just say that there's, um, uh, uh, uh, current members.

1630
01:37:44.760 --> 01:37:48.920
And this is some collection of people and I have, uh, pending

1631
01:37:48.920 --> 01:37:50.560
members, which are like people to add.

1632
01:37:53.920 --> 01:38:00.200
And let's say like inside of current members, I have, uh, the, I'm just kind

1633
01:38:00.200 --> 01:38:03.960
of doing like a type definition here, almost, you know, like for each one of

1634
01:38:03.960 --> 01:38:07.040
these, for each one of these, I could have something like, and I'm just doing

1635
01:38:07.040 --> 01:38:10.280
this in pseudocode instead of like caring about trying to do it in some proper

1636
01:38:10.280 --> 01:38:15.680
type, but what I could say is basically like marked for removal, it's like

1637
01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:16.960
Boolean, you know what I mean?

1638
01:38:16.960 --> 01:38:17.920
For each one of these things.

1639
01:38:18.200 --> 01:38:20.760
So I can kind of like, I have some kind of a sketch of like, this is

1640
01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:22.160
the state that I want to be having.

1641
01:38:22.560 --> 01:38:29.720
Then if, so for example, list of added people, um, I have the, this is nice.

1642
01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:33.920
So if I have elbow arrows, finally in TL draw, that's why we can do this.

1643
01:38:34.240 --> 01:38:39.080
Um, I could have, now this is actually a component that we could break

1644
01:38:39.080 --> 01:38:41.640
out if we needed to into more detail.

1645
01:38:41.640 --> 01:38:42.480
What's going on here.

1646
01:38:42.520 --> 01:38:42.880
Right.

1647
01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:45.960
Because the list of added people, if I remember it, it has this like

1648
01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:47.760
remove affordance on each person.

1649
01:38:48.520 --> 01:38:48.920
Right.

1650
01:38:49.240 --> 01:38:55.720
So, um, from, from there's different ways to do this one way, one way of doing

1651
01:38:55.720 --> 01:38:58.040
this is to say, I, I'm not going to care about that.

1652
01:38:58.040 --> 01:39:01.320
I understand what that component is according to some sketch or something

1653
01:39:02.080 --> 01:39:06.560
and I'm going to actually have a mark for removal command or a

1654
01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:08.920
toggle mark for removal command.

1655
01:39:09.440 --> 01:39:13.640
And then I'm just going to say like, this thing can do this,

1656
01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:17.000
which then updates this state.

1657
01:39:17.520 --> 01:39:18.160
Do you know what I mean?

1658
01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:21.440
So you can kind of think about like, you can reason through how this

1659
01:39:21.440 --> 01:39:23.880
re-renders when this state is different, because now somebody

1660
01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:25.160
marked for removal is true.

1661
01:39:25.440 --> 01:39:25.840
Right.

1662
01:39:26.360 --> 01:39:29.080
Um, that's, that's a simple example.

1663
01:39:29.280 --> 01:39:33.640
Um, of course, like when I search users, there's something similar happening

1664
01:39:33.640 --> 01:39:35.480
there, which is like ad depending.

1665
01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:36.240
Right.

1666
01:39:36.240 --> 01:39:42.280
Because I can choose somebody from the, uh, uh, I think you actually have, um,

1667
01:39:43.560 --> 01:39:47.840
there's actually another thing here, which is like the search results.

1668
01:39:48.200 --> 01:39:50.640
You kind of have this, like, you have this like search field and

1669
01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:55.440
then you have the results and, uh, the list of added people was

1670
01:39:55.440 --> 01:39:57.000
above that, if I remember right.

1671
01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.720
It was like, you had the group name on top as a field.

1672
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:03.280
Then you have this, like the added people where people are kind of chips that you

1673
01:40:03.280 --> 01:40:05.720
could remove and then you have the search field and you have the results.

1674
01:40:06.040 --> 01:40:10.640
And if I click on a result, then I can add, I can add that person to pending,

1675
01:40:10.840 --> 01:40:13.920
which of course then is going to update my list of who's impending here.

1676
01:40:13.960 --> 01:40:14.280
Right.

1677
01:40:15.960 --> 01:40:16.960
Yeah, that's helpful.

1678
01:40:17.240 --> 01:40:20.760
I mean, it pretty much answers the, my question.

1679
01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:24.080
Cause like, it's sometimes like the affordance like makes it super obvious,

1680
01:40:24.080 --> 01:40:27.920
but when you expose the data shape, it like shows like why it actually will

1681
01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:29.640
break the affordance and break a bunch.

1682
01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:31.440
Exactly, exactly.

1683
01:40:31.440 --> 01:40:32.400
That's where you want to see that.

1684
01:40:32.400 --> 01:40:35.120
And if you want to, you can think of this, if you want to, you

1685
01:40:35.120 --> 01:40:36.560
can think of this as a function.

1686
01:40:37.120 --> 01:40:41.200
And the function has like a, it has like a, like a type signature for

1687
01:40:41.200 --> 01:40:44.160
like the shape of the data it takes and the shape of data it gives.

1688
01:40:44.280 --> 01:40:44.960
You know what I mean?

1689
01:40:45.400 --> 01:40:47.400
Um, so that's there.

1690
01:40:47.400 --> 01:40:50.440
And then one other, yes.

1691
01:40:51.480 --> 01:40:56.800
So then the, if this is like, this is like what I'm finding is that like, it

1692
01:40:56.800 --> 01:40:58.880
has to be fast when you're breadboarding.

1693
01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:03.520
So I I'm erring on the side of being dirty and then only at the very, when

1694
01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:06.480
it's really needed, you know, like getting more complicated.

1695
01:41:06.480 --> 01:41:10.720
So what I'm finding is that this is very often just enough.

1696
01:41:10.920 --> 01:41:19.080
So what I, the convention I've been using is, um, if we have any marked for

1697
01:41:19.080 --> 01:41:22.080
removal, you know what I mean?

1698
01:41:22.440 --> 01:41:27.080
Then what I'm going to do is I'm just, I'm literally just going to, um, use

1699
01:41:27.080 --> 01:41:34.400
indention just to show that I'm going to have like a warn, um, won't see history.

1700
01:41:34.960 --> 01:41:35.760
Or, you know what I mean?

1701
01:41:35.760 --> 01:41:37.240
We'll lose history.

1702
01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:46.200
And then I'm going to have, um, if pending, right.

1703
01:41:47.680 --> 01:41:49.920
So I'm also kind of building my domain language here a little

1704
01:41:49.920 --> 01:41:51.240
bit, you know, on the backend.

1705
01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:58.200
Um, then I'm going to have worn, um, we'll see history, right?

1706
01:41:58.600 --> 01:41:59.080
Yeah.

1707
01:41:59.480 --> 01:42:06.480
Um, this, I've found that this, if can some, I can actually just use

1708
01:42:06.480 --> 01:42:08.480
the same thing if I want to over here.

1709
01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:13.960
There might be cases, let's just say this is not what you guys ended up actually

1710
01:42:13.960 --> 01:42:19.560
doing, but you might have a case where you actually have a, um, uh, you could

1711
01:42:19.560 --> 01:42:26.240
just have a create a create conversation command, uh, that does something.

1712
01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:30.520
And there could be some logic inside of here, but if we want to expose that for

1713
01:42:30.520 --> 01:42:34.680
business reasons or whatever, or to understand it, we could do something

1714
01:42:34.680 --> 01:42:40.400
like if one member create one-on-one, this was an early version of what we

1715
01:42:40.400 --> 01:42:42.600
shaped and we decided not to do, you know what I mean?

1716
01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:51.200
But like, if many members create group conversation, this is just kind of like,

1717
01:42:51.280 --> 01:42:52.520
I'm here, I'm just hacking it.

1718
01:42:52.520 --> 01:42:53.040
You know what I mean?

1719
01:42:53.040 --> 01:42:56.440
But I'm just kind of showing like here, this is, there is some control

1720
01:42:56.440 --> 01:43:01.520
flow here, and then this would probably take you to the group chat UI versus

1721
01:43:01.520 --> 01:43:03.960
this would take you to the one-on-one you, you know what I mean?

1722
01:43:03.960 --> 01:43:04.480
And so on.

1723
01:43:04.520 --> 01:43:04.920
Right.

1724
01:43:05.120 --> 01:43:14.000
So, um, anything missing when you see this, anything that you,

1725
01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:19.160
I feel equipped to better, like, uh, better exposed to those of my thinking.

1726
01:43:19.680 --> 01:43:20.120
That's nice.

1727
01:43:20.120 --> 01:43:20.800
Do you feel equipped?

1728
01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:22.040
That's a good, that's nice to hear.

1729
01:43:22.040 --> 01:43:22.360
Okay.

1730
01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:23.640
That's the idea.

1731
01:43:23.640 --> 01:43:23.920
Yeah.

1732
01:43:24.520 --> 01:43:25.600
Um, cool.

1733
01:43:25.760 --> 01:43:30.360
And I can see this applying, but specifically for the tag, um, I haven't

1734
01:43:30.360 --> 01:43:33.280
even, we haven't talked about that recently, but this would be like for

1735
01:43:33.280 --> 01:43:35.440
the, the evergreen project.

1736
01:43:35.440 --> 01:43:39.800
Cause it's, you know, it's a pretty much all backend, uh, project to figure

1737
01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:44.240
out this logic of like when people are at it or seeing, or like we, like

1738
01:43:44.240 --> 01:43:47.200
the shaping we already did is pretty good.

1739
01:43:47.200 --> 01:43:50.760
There's just like, like one specific piece that's like, I think we're

1740
01:43:50.760 --> 01:43:53.400
a solid 20% shaped on that.

1741
01:43:54.480 --> 01:43:54.960
No, no, no.

1742
01:43:55.480 --> 01:43:56.640
But it's like, it's weird.

1743
01:43:56.920 --> 01:43:57.840
Like it's optional.

1744
01:43:57.840 --> 01:44:02.920
We can just like leave a improperly named database table and like kind

1745
01:44:02.920 --> 01:44:08.240
of live with it, so I dunno, just like based on like all the discussions we

1746
01:44:08.240 --> 01:44:10.560
had, like in my head, it's like very clear.

1747
01:44:10.560 --> 01:44:15.680
I just, I didn't like expose that, um, in like a breadboard, but I feel

1748
01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:17.120
like this project is pretty clear.

1749
01:44:17.920 --> 01:44:21.200
So guys, I want to, I want to land this in the 15 minutes we have.

1750
01:44:21.520 --> 01:44:28.080
Um, uh, and, uh, I just want to make sure that we cover, um, takeaways from today.

1751
01:44:28.680 --> 01:44:30.960
Um, what do you got?

1752
01:44:30.960 --> 01:44:35.640
Um, and I want to see like, um, differences from how we did it today

1753
01:44:35.680 --> 01:44:39.520
versus, um, what you, how you, how you normally run a session like this.

1754
01:44:40.040 --> 01:44:45.400
And, um, anything that you want to take from this forward, um, into future sessions.

1755
01:44:48.320 --> 01:44:52.400
Chris, I didn't, I know you jumped in with the backend stuff, but did

1756
01:44:52.400 --> 01:44:54.640
you have any comments on this?

1757
01:44:57.480 --> 01:45:00.000
No, I've been, I've been hacking up, hacking up a log.

1758
01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:01.700
over here, so apologies for the noise.

1759
01:45:01.700 --> 01:45:07.500
But I think it was useful to see how you cut down

1760
01:45:07.500 --> 01:45:12.100
those projects into really the most necessary bits

1761
01:45:12.100 --> 01:45:16.700
and how you identified maybe duplicates or implications

1762
01:45:16.700 --> 01:45:17.860
between them.

1763
01:45:17.860 --> 01:45:22.460
I think so often we kind of just rush into things, I know I do,

1764
01:45:22.460 --> 01:45:24.900
and don't think about the connections

1765
01:45:24.900 --> 01:45:26.100
and some of the subtleties.

1766
01:45:26.100 --> 01:45:28.820
Like being able to have that removed

1767
01:45:28.820 --> 01:45:32.380
and keep in framing mode and then kind of thoughtfully

1768
01:45:32.380 --> 01:45:35.260
go into shaping mode is very useful.

1769
01:45:35.260 --> 01:45:37.100
I took a look at that monster map tool

1770
01:45:37.100 --> 01:45:38.380
and I actually played with it.

1771
01:45:38.380 --> 01:45:44.180
I like how it forces you not to weigh down things

1772
01:45:44.180 --> 01:45:47.340
with maybe things that aren't, or details

1773
01:45:47.340 --> 01:45:50.420
aren't as useful in keeping it at that high level

1774
01:45:50.420 --> 01:45:53.860
while still referring to things that require further thought.

1775
01:45:53.860 --> 01:45:57.340
So that was very useful for me to see.

1776
01:45:59.780 --> 01:46:00.280
Cool.

1777
01:46:03.300 --> 01:46:05.860
It got me reflecting on like, because we

1778
01:46:05.860 --> 01:46:08.180
did some review sessions in the past

1779
01:46:08.180 --> 01:46:11.260
that I felt like we did a really good job of being like, OK,

1780
01:46:11.260 --> 01:46:13.580
we have this much time left, just cut this.

1781
01:46:13.580 --> 01:46:15.100
And it makes sense.

1782
01:46:15.100 --> 01:46:19.140
And I think you gave us good tools, alternative tools,

1783
01:46:19.140 --> 01:46:21.580
because we were just reviewing tasks.

1784
01:46:21.580 --> 01:46:28.260
But I'm just wondering on the habits or process,

1785
01:46:28.260 --> 01:46:29.340
what do it look like?

1786
01:46:29.340 --> 01:46:31.220
Maybe we have like a two week project

1787
01:46:31.220 --> 01:46:33.220
and we do like a demo, like just make

1788
01:46:33.220 --> 01:46:36.700
a video of what's been done, what it looks like.

1789
01:46:36.700 --> 01:46:38.900
And if the developer doesn't do that,

1790
01:46:38.900 --> 01:46:44.060
then the owner kind of comes in, schedules a meeting to review.

1791
01:46:44.060 --> 01:46:45.540
So I'm just kind of thinking, what

1792
01:46:45.540 --> 01:46:50.660
can it look like for our team that will be for us

1793
01:46:50.660 --> 01:46:52.780
to further discuss, I guess.

1794
01:46:53.100 --> 01:46:55.980
Mm-hmm.

1795
01:46:55.980 --> 01:46:59.100
Yeah, can it be done asynchronously, you think?

1796
01:47:04.580 --> 01:47:11.220
What I've found tends to work best is in the same way

1797
01:47:11.220 --> 01:47:16.460
that we have this kind of like punchy synchronous shaping

1798
01:47:16.460 --> 01:47:20.300
work that then pays off until a lot of async work

1799
01:47:20.300 --> 01:47:22.740
comes out of that, because it's easier to know where we are

1800
01:47:22.780 --> 01:47:24.180
and what we're doing.

1801
01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:29.140
The map with the nine boxes kind of works the same.

1802
01:47:29.140 --> 01:47:33.860
I've seen it like when we did this at Basecamp,

1803
01:47:33.860 --> 01:47:38.100
the scoping conversations could happen via chat,

1804
01:47:38.100 --> 01:47:40.740
but it's like synchronous chat, you know what I mean?

1805
01:47:40.740 --> 01:47:42.660
Like, I think we need to scope for this.

1806
01:47:42.660 --> 01:47:44.500
And then somebody like types it, types it, types it.

1807
01:47:44.500 --> 01:47:45.580
And then you're like, no, this, this.

1808
01:47:45.580 --> 01:47:46.380
You know what I mean?

1809
01:47:46.380 --> 01:47:50.500
So that kind of thing can, it's real time.

1810
01:47:50.980 --> 01:47:53.300
I don't think there's a way around doing it real time,

1811
01:47:53.300 --> 01:47:56.860
basically, because it is a kind of group negotiation

1812
01:47:56.860 --> 01:47:59.340
and building a group understanding of what this is,

1813
01:47:59.340 --> 01:48:04.340
but it should feel, it should feel like this little bit

1814
01:48:04.620 --> 01:48:07.060
of real time that we did is now paying off

1815
01:48:07.060 --> 01:48:08.940
because we have so much more clarity

1816
01:48:08.940 --> 01:48:11.300
in the async conversations that we're having.

1817
01:48:11.300 --> 01:48:14.540
Like the async conversations should feel faster

1818
01:48:14.540 --> 01:48:17.620
and more to the point, you know, and more substantive

1819
01:48:18.500 --> 01:48:20.580
because you have this common map.

1820
01:48:20.580 --> 01:48:23.580
And then if you get to a point of like, wait a minute,

1821
01:48:23.580 --> 01:48:25.860
like this doesn't reflect what's really going on

1822
01:48:25.860 --> 01:48:28.700
or like some weird thing happened and we need to regroup,

1823
01:48:28.700 --> 01:48:29.540
you know what I mean?

1824
01:48:29.540 --> 01:48:32.260
Then you can regroup again.

1825
01:48:32.260 --> 01:48:36.820
But barring that, usually what we see is like that,

1826
01:48:36.820 --> 01:48:38.700
well, yeah, that it's kind of like we have the map

1827
01:48:38.700 --> 01:48:41.220
and now we can just kind of work off of this async

1828
01:48:43.300 --> 01:48:46.140
for at least, you know, a couple of weeks, you know.

1829
01:48:48.100 --> 01:48:50.940
Yeah, I think one thing where I'm learning

1830
01:48:50.940 --> 01:48:53.740
to not be attached to, and this may be to your point,

1831
01:48:53.740 --> 01:48:56.220
Lucien as well, is like, we kind of like put everything

1832
01:48:56.220 --> 01:48:58.740
into Notion, like these sacred tasks.

1833
01:48:58.740 --> 01:49:00.060
And then it's like, they just,

1834
01:49:00.060 --> 01:49:02.380
we just like move these things around,

1835
01:49:02.380 --> 01:49:05.020
which I think even just the exercise of like

1836
01:49:05.020 --> 01:49:06.660
putting Notion over to the side

1837
01:49:06.660 --> 01:49:10.780
and redoing the list of tasks into a new format,

1838
01:49:10.780 --> 01:49:11.620
doesn't even matter.

1839
01:49:11.620 --> 01:49:13.060
Even if you put it into a Google sheet, you know,

1840
01:49:13.060 --> 01:49:14.980
or something else, there's just a,

1841
01:49:14.980 --> 01:49:17.260
it just helps you to like look at each one,

1842
01:49:17.940 --> 01:49:20.340
pick it up, figure out where it goes.

1843
01:49:20.340 --> 01:49:22.940
It's kind of like, we just got into like puzzling,

1844
01:49:22.940 --> 01:49:24.980
puzzles with our four-year-old like this weekend.

1845
01:49:24.980 --> 01:49:26.260
Like you're picking up every piece.

1846
01:49:26.260 --> 01:49:27.420
You're like, is this a straight edge?

1847
01:49:27.420 --> 01:49:29.300
Like, does it go into this pile or does it not?

1848
01:49:29.300 --> 01:49:31.100
Like we're figuring out where it goes.

1849
01:49:31.100 --> 01:49:33.460
And unless you're, you just don't see it actually,

1850
01:49:33.460 --> 01:49:36.380
if you just see the list, like it just looks like a,

1851
01:49:36.380 --> 01:49:37.700
you can't see the individual pieces.

1852
01:49:37.700 --> 01:49:39.380
Yeah, your eyes kind of glaze over

1853
01:49:39.380 --> 01:49:40.620
when you look at the list, right?

1854
01:49:40.620 --> 01:49:42.780
Or when you look at a, whenever I look at a Kanban,

1855
01:49:42.780 --> 01:49:47.220
like I just like space out, you know, really.

1856
01:49:47.980 --> 01:49:48.820
Even traumatized.

1857
01:49:50.140 --> 01:49:50.980
It's just hard.

1858
01:49:50.980 --> 01:49:53.500
It's just hard to make sense out of what's there

1859
01:49:53.500 --> 01:49:55.220
because they're all different things.

1860
01:49:55.220 --> 01:49:57.180
And there's more, I literally, you know,

1861
01:49:57.180 --> 01:50:00.180
I mean, you guys probably know this cognitive science rule.

1862
01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:02.240
that UI designers are always quoting,

1863
01:50:02.240 --> 01:50:04.920
it's the rule of seven plus or minus two.

1864
01:50:04.920 --> 01:50:07.260
Your brain can't remember,

1865
01:50:07.260 --> 01:50:10.720
it can't hold more than seven plus or minus two things

1866
01:50:10.720 --> 01:50:12.920
in working memory at the same time.

1867
01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:15.440
And that's the principle here,

1868
01:50:15.440 --> 01:50:17.400
is like we're chunking the work to the point

1869
01:50:17.400 --> 01:50:20.240
where we can hold it all in our heads at the same time.

1870
01:50:20.240 --> 01:50:22.560
Because if there's 20 things there,

1871
01:50:22.560 --> 01:50:25.200
like I can't hold that in my head,

1872
01:50:25.200 --> 01:50:26.760
I just don't know what that is, you know?

1873
01:50:26.760 --> 01:50:28.360
I don't know what it adds up to.

1874
01:50:30.720 --> 01:50:35.720
Process-wise, you always have a lot of options, of course,

1875
01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:37.200
about how you proceed.

1876
01:50:37.200 --> 01:50:39.920
And it depends very much on where you guys are at

1877
01:50:39.920 --> 01:50:41.960
in terms of what you're trying to do

1878
01:50:41.960 --> 01:50:44.440
with your way of working, you know?

1879
01:50:44.440 --> 01:50:48.920
Sometimes you're in a moment where it's more about,

1880
01:50:48.920 --> 01:50:51.160
we want consistency in how we do things

1881
01:50:51.160 --> 01:50:53.920
because we wanna be able to scale

1882
01:50:53.920 --> 01:50:55.740
that we do the same thing more.

1883
01:50:55.740 --> 01:50:57.600
And sometimes it's more like we wanna feel

1884
01:50:57.600 --> 01:50:58.920
that we have more flexibility

1885
01:50:58.920 --> 01:51:01.560
so that we can play around to figure out the right way,

1886
01:51:01.560 --> 01:51:03.120
you know?

1887
01:51:03.120 --> 01:51:04.680
So that's a big factor.

1888
01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:08.480
If you are, I would say,

1889
01:51:08.480 --> 01:51:11.400
when you feel that you are more in the,

1890
01:51:11.400 --> 01:51:14.280
how do we standardize it so we can scale a little bit more

1891
01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:17.820
without feeling too squeezed by process, you know?

1892
01:51:19.240 --> 01:51:21.040
The thing I recommend for that

1893
01:51:21.040 --> 01:51:26.040
is to have the nine boxes as the kickoff exercise

1894
01:51:27.040 --> 01:51:31.240
so that there isn't a translation into that,

1895
01:51:31.240 --> 01:51:33.760
but it's just the way that you start the project, you know?

1896
01:51:33.760 --> 01:51:35.760
So like that's where the issues,

1897
01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:38.000
that's where all the kind of tasks and stuff,

1898
01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:39.040
like that's where they start.

1899
01:51:39.040 --> 01:51:40.340
That's where they go into.

1900
01:51:42.000 --> 01:51:45.760
Then the check-ins, the reviews, you know,

1901
01:51:45.760 --> 01:51:48.640
if somebody records a video demo, for example,

1902
01:51:48.640 --> 01:51:51.280
that video demo is gonna be different

1903
01:51:51.280 --> 01:51:54.680
if you have the nine boxes as the orientation

1904
01:51:54.680 --> 01:51:57.760
of this is what we're looking at, you know what I mean?

1905
01:51:57.760 --> 01:52:02.440
Because what really you should be kind of ideally doing,

1906
01:52:02.440 --> 01:52:04.600
what we see when this is going well

1907
01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:08.640
is that the video demo is kind of like of this box,

1908
01:52:08.640 --> 01:52:09.480
you know what I mean?

1909
01:52:09.480 --> 01:52:11.400
And it's kind of like if the demo was good,

1910
01:52:11.400 --> 01:52:13.200
we get to check the box, you know?

1911
01:52:13.200 --> 01:52:15.240
Or the video demo was like these two boxes

1912
01:52:15.240 --> 01:52:17.240
or this box and a half, you know what I mean?

1913
01:52:17.240 --> 01:52:19.920
And we kind of get like what we're conquering

1914
01:52:19.920 --> 01:52:21.560
and what we're seeing and what it means

1915
01:52:21.560 --> 01:52:24.520
in terms of like done or not done,

1916
01:52:25.360 --> 01:52:26.200
which is kind of very much aligned

1917
01:52:26.200 --> 01:52:27.640
with how the client looks at things, you know what I mean?

1918
01:52:27.640 --> 01:52:28.560
Like the client doesn't care

1919
01:52:28.560 --> 01:52:30.360
about the implementation detail.

1920
01:52:30.360 --> 01:52:32.600
The client only cares about like,

1921
01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:34.240
can I use the bathroom or not?

1922
01:52:34.240 --> 01:52:36.280
Like, are we ready for tile or not?

1923
01:52:36.280 --> 01:52:38.160
Like, can I hang drywall or not?

1924
01:52:38.160 --> 01:52:39.000
Or you know what I mean?

1925
01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:41.440
Like, I wanna like see it,

1926
01:52:41.440 --> 01:52:43.160
where are we in terms of stuff,

1927
01:52:43.160 --> 01:52:45.600
in terms of completion of stuff, you know?

1928
01:52:45.600 --> 01:52:48.160
So that's the shift there.

1929
01:52:49.440 --> 01:52:50.280
That's great.

1930
01:52:51.280 --> 01:52:54.800
I think this is like not a small thing.

1931
01:52:54.800 --> 01:52:59.800
Like it was helpful because you kind of came into it fresh

1932
01:53:00.520 --> 01:53:02.440
a lot of times, like how our clients are coming to it,

1933
01:53:02.440 --> 01:53:06.560
except you're able to like give us super clarity on like,

1934
01:53:06.560 --> 01:53:09.200
well, this is why it's vague and then we can clean it up.

1935
01:53:09.200 --> 01:53:12.360
Because I think this is a huge blind spot for us

1936
01:53:12.360 --> 01:53:14.000
as a whole, as a team.

1937
01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:16.920
For me, you know, and I see this consistently happening

1938
01:53:16.920 --> 01:53:18.520
across all of our projects,

1939
01:53:18.520 --> 01:53:20.920
is just clients not knowing, you know,

1940
01:53:20.920 --> 01:53:23.040
the same thing with the Kanban board,

1941
01:53:23.040 --> 01:53:25.720
if it's a notion pitch, if it's a list of tasks,

1942
01:53:25.720 --> 01:53:29.000
they just, their eyes glaze over.

1943
01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:32.160
So I think it's helpful in this like presentation tool

1944
01:53:32.160 --> 01:53:34.600
to figure out, and also when we do it

1945
01:53:34.600 --> 01:53:37.840
and we package it up or we get ready to present it,

1946
01:53:37.840 --> 01:53:40.080
we of course get a tremendous amount of clarity

1947
01:53:40.080 --> 01:53:43.800
just going through the exercise of packaging it.

1948
01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:47.640
And I think that's something I would love to see

1949
01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:49.800
us level up on and use some of these tools

1950
01:53:49.800 --> 01:53:51.840
to exactly kind of tell them like,

1951
01:53:51.840 --> 01:53:53.360
well, there's really these nine things,

1952
01:53:53.360 --> 01:53:55.560
like we could explain this to any client

1953
01:53:55.560 --> 01:53:56.800
and they would be able to see,

1954
01:53:56.800 --> 01:53:58.560
basically these nine things, you know,

1955
01:53:58.560 --> 01:54:00.480
these things are over here, we're not doing,

1956
01:54:00.480 --> 01:54:01.320
these six things we're doing,

1957
01:54:01.320 --> 01:54:03.120
this one's kind of out of, it's flagged,

1958
01:54:03.120 --> 01:54:05.120
we're gonna be spending, it's easy.

1959
01:54:05.120 --> 01:54:06.480
Like they don't even necessarily have to see

1960
01:54:06.480 --> 01:54:09.440
the tasks underneath, but just they know the nine boxes.

1961
01:54:10.440 --> 01:54:11.800
It's kind of what they're seeing.

1962
01:54:11.800 --> 01:54:14.040
The fact that the tasks are there,

1963
01:54:14.040 --> 01:54:16.480
it shows that you know what you're talking about

1964
01:54:16.480 --> 01:54:18.680
because there is this detail in there, right?

1965
01:54:18.680 --> 01:54:21.720
Without needing to actually understand what they are.

1966
01:54:21.720 --> 01:54:22.760
Exactly.

1967
01:54:22.760 --> 01:54:24.600
It's just more like, you know, again,

1968
01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:25.640
back to the house analogy,

1969
01:54:25.640 --> 01:54:28.600
if you had a contractor who was sending you regular updates

1970
01:54:28.600 --> 01:54:29.840
and they had their little board

1971
01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:30.880
and they had a little checklist,

1972
01:54:30.880 --> 01:54:33.200
it's like, it almost doesn't matter what's on there,

1973
01:54:33.200 --> 01:54:35.600
it's just the fact that you are tracking it at that level

1974
01:54:35.600 --> 01:54:37.280
gives that peace of mind.

1975
01:54:37.280 --> 01:54:40.600
And part of what, yeah.

1976
01:54:40.600 --> 01:54:43.520
Oh, I just wanted to mention that the punch list

1977
01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:45.520
feels okay at the end,

1978
01:54:45.520 --> 01:54:47.880
but the punch list doesn't feel so good at the beginning

1979
01:54:47.880 --> 01:54:49.920
if it's a big project.

1980
01:54:49.920 --> 01:54:53.560
Definitely, yeah, I agree.

1981
01:54:53.560 --> 01:54:56.720
And we do get, we had this with Chris,

1982
01:54:56.720 --> 01:54:59.000
we're trying to unravel like, you know,

1983
01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:04.800
The worst, uh, the nightmare for us is getting that one email with the,

1984
01:55:05.040 --> 01:55:08.220
you know, 52 item punch list.

1985
01:55:08.220 --> 01:55:11.600
And a third of them are brand new projects.

1986
01:55:11.600 --> 01:55:13.560
Like a third of them are bugs.

1987
01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:15.920
And the other stuff is just stuff we've got to figure out.

1988
01:55:15.920 --> 01:55:18.480
Like, what is, it's just a, you know, uh, whatever.

1989
01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:22.000
So, you know, we're unraveling that into something useful.

1990
01:55:22.360 --> 01:55:25.160
Luckily we don't get those too often, but that's sort of the, the

1991
01:55:25.160 --> 01:55:26.560
antithesis of what we're talking about.

1992
01:55:26.560 --> 01:55:30.160
It's just this massive download of like, here's my entire Google doc of

1993
01:55:30.160 --> 01:55:33.880
everything I can think of in my head right now, and I think that's part of

1994
01:55:33.880 --> 01:55:37.160
what we're doing as a service, as a team is bringing that clarity and then

1995
01:55:37.160 --> 01:55:40.600
chopping it into little pieces for people and then going and executing on it.

1996
01:55:41.120 --> 01:55:42.840
Um, so anyway,

1997
01:55:44.720 --> 01:55:49.040
when you're at the scale of the nine things, the other thing it helps you to

1998
01:55:49.040 --> 01:55:51.680
do is it, it enables a negotiation to happen.

1999
01:55:51.680 --> 01:55:53.000
We felt that a little bit today.

2000
01:55:53.040 --> 01:55:55.400
I think that happened with like file upload, for example.

2001
01:55:55.800 --> 01:56:00.000
Um, so that's the thing where when the client gives you the 32 punch list items

2002
01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:03.480
and some of them are new projects and some of them are not, if you try to

2003
01:56:03.480 --> 01:56:08.440
interpret that in terms of the nine boxes of the current project, that

2004
01:56:08.440 --> 01:56:10.600
negotiation will surface, you know what I mean?

2005
01:56:10.600 --> 01:56:13.680
Of like, oh, there's these other things you want that are substantial.

2006
01:56:13.880 --> 01:56:18.680
We can remove, do you want to remove this whole box from the current project,

2007
01:56:19.000 --> 01:56:22.080
you know, and put something else in, do you want to think about this for a

2008
01:56:22.120 --> 01:56:27.160
different engagement and even just being able to, to guide that conversation,

2009
01:56:27.240 --> 01:56:31.200
like, you know, in a, in a, in a way where everyone feels like we understand

2010
01:56:31.200 --> 01:56:34.040
what we're talking about and we're, we're, we're looking at the trade-offs

2011
01:56:34.040 --> 01:56:38.280
together, makes that feel like less of a nightmare and more like this

2012
01:56:38.280 --> 01:56:39.400
is something we can navigate.

2013
01:56:41.200 --> 01:56:41.720
Definitely.

2014
01:56:42.240 --> 01:56:44.640
Um, I, one, one, one minor technical point.

2015
01:56:45.040 --> 01:56:50.600
Um, if you decide you want to, to try the monster map tool, um, just let me know

2016
01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:52.400
and I'll give you access to that.

2017
01:56:52.440 --> 01:56:54.960
Um, or I think you can even sign up directly now.

2018
01:56:54.960 --> 01:56:56.840
I think you can just sign up and use it.

2019
01:56:57.120 --> 01:56:57.360
Yeah.

2020
01:56:57.360 --> 01:56:59.320
So you can just, you can just create your own account.

2021
01:56:59.600 --> 01:57:02.800
It's the sharing model is totally bare bones right now.

2022
01:57:02.800 --> 01:57:03.920
There's no user model.

2023
01:57:03.920 --> 01:57:06.560
It's just, um, you can enable sharing or not.

2024
01:57:06.600 --> 01:57:10.800
And then the URL sharing works with, you know, gnarly URLs.

2025
01:57:11.240 --> 01:57:17.040
Um, there is an embed under the share button and you can drop that into notion.

2026
01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:21.840
So if you, if you, if you, if you want that, you can just have this in the

2027
01:57:21.840 --> 01:57:28.320
notion as a, uh, you know, just like the same way that you embed the board today.

2028
01:57:28.880 --> 01:57:30.840
Um, so feel free to use that.

2029
01:57:31.320 --> 01:57:31.440
Yeah.

2030
01:57:31.440 --> 01:57:33.240
What was the domain again for that?

2031
01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:39.200
Should just be monster map.com monster map.app monster map.

2032
01:57:39.760 --> 01:57:40.000
Okay.

2033
01:57:40.000 --> 01:57:40.600
That's what it is.

2034
01:57:40.720 --> 01:57:41.240
There you go.

2035
01:57:41.280 --> 01:57:41.720
Yeah.

2036
01:57:42.720 --> 01:57:50.000
Um, and, um, um, any, uh, we have a little team.

2037
01:57:50.080 --> 01:57:52.360
I mean, this is like a side project for us cause we just

2038
01:57:52.480 --> 01:57:54.080
discovered we needed something.

2039
01:57:54.680 --> 01:57:58.800
Like we, you know, we couldn't just keep doing it like in, in mural or whatever.

2040
01:57:58.800 --> 01:58:03.040
And, uh, um, but we're actually, we're actually working on, on,

2041
01:58:03.080 --> 01:58:05.800
on making it reasonably real.

2042
01:58:06.320 --> 01:58:11.160
And, um, so if anything, if you, if you try it and you get any issues or anything,

2043
01:58:11.400 --> 01:58:13.720
whatever, you can just ping me about that, you know, and I'll,

2044
01:58:13.720 --> 01:58:15.040
uh, I'll be responsive to that.

2045
01:58:15.640 --> 01:58:19.000
Um, uh, Bruce, I didn't get from you.

2046
01:58:19.280 --> 01:58:24.440
Um, uh, what was different and what you want, what, what, um, what

2047
01:58:24.440 --> 01:58:25.920
you want to carry forward from this?

2048
01:58:29.320 --> 01:58:34.240
Yeah, I think, I think overall just, um, it's another powerful tool that

2049
01:58:34.240 --> 01:58:36.400
we can, we can use to bring, bring clarity.

2050
01:58:36.400 --> 01:58:40.360
I think the breadboarding, these are both very visual tools, which

2051
01:58:40.360 --> 01:58:42.480
tend to be much easier to explain to clients.

2052
01:58:42.520 --> 01:58:45.800
And I think I'm kind of looking at this, you know, I get to put the

2053
01:58:45.800 --> 01:58:49.880
role of the client on in this for tribe, but I'm also seeing it.

2054
01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:54.120
Like that's very much our world is like, I'm we're, we built a product and now

2055
01:58:54.120 --> 01:58:55.600
we're helping our clients build products.

2056
01:58:55.600 --> 01:58:58.720
So this, this, these are not like small issues.

2057
01:58:58.720 --> 01:59:01.520
Like I think, so we got a lot of value at our first session.

2058
01:59:01.520 --> 01:59:03.240
The second one is, is great.

2059
01:59:03.240 --> 01:59:08.400
Cause it is, uh, we have, all of us have projects right now that are open that we

2060
01:59:08.400 --> 01:59:12.760
could go and do a check-in like this, um, for, so I think there's a great thing we

2061
01:59:12.760 --> 01:59:15.640
can implement, you know, today on, on some things.

2062
01:59:16.120 --> 01:59:21.840
Um, but I think it's also giving us a new benchmark of what is shaped.

2063
01:59:21.960 --> 01:59:25.840
And even when, you know, we thought it was like 70, 80% shaped on our first

2064
01:59:25.840 --> 01:59:29.600
session, by the end of it, I was like, I realized we were maybe 10 or 20%, you

2065
01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:34.040
know, concrete, and I think we started to get a feel for what feels concrete and

2066
01:59:34.040 --> 01:59:36.160
what doesn't, and that being the goal.

2067
01:59:36.160 --> 01:59:38.000
And that's been helpful language internally.

2068
01:59:38.000 --> 01:59:41.520
It's been helpful language with clients, um, when they just throw out, you know,

2069
01:59:41.520 --> 01:59:43.560
requests and we can get it down to like, what are you at?

2070
01:59:43.600 --> 01:59:43.800
Okay.

2071
01:59:43.800 --> 01:59:45.760
Does it, this button, where does this button go?

2072
01:59:45.760 --> 01:59:47.600
Like showing them the visuals and all that.

2073
01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:51.960
Um, and then even now, like, I think I emailed like, Hey, we're halfway through

2074
01:59:51.960 --> 01:59:54.080
the project, we're, we're basically done.

2075
01:59:54.080 --> 01:59:55.480
Like we're on the tail end of it.

2076
01:59:55.480 --> 01:59:58.480
And then when we opened up today, we're like, oh, actually there's actually still

2077
01:59:58.480 --> 02:00:00.040
a lot of unknown things towards.

2078
02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:04.480
the last week here and then now by the end of the session we're we're like oh now we definitely kind

2079
02:00:04.480 --> 02:00:11.120
of have more of a our sort of our relative like um benchmark has shifted higher as we're kind of

2080
02:00:11.120 --> 02:00:17.280
elevating or um increasing the the goal as far as what we're what how concrete can we make this

2081
02:00:18.000 --> 02:00:23.600
and i think this feels incredibly concrete right compared to other things it's only because we've

2082
02:00:23.600 --> 02:00:29.520
been doing a pretty poor job of taking pretty vague and luckily we have a very talented team

2083
02:00:29.520 --> 02:00:34.800
like everybody on this call is pretty is very smart and so we can fill in the gaps like on the

2084
02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:43.440
fly but that's not gonna that's not gonna scale well like uh moving you know as we go yeah yeah

2085
02:00:43.440 --> 02:00:48.320
totally um that's been a big part of what i've been trying to do the thing i'm trying to solve

2086
02:00:48.320 --> 02:00:53.280
all the time which is like my favorite problem is like how do you take what we do in our heads

2087
02:00:53.280 --> 02:00:58.880
when we are a good team and like kind of externalize it so that when we start to grow

2088
02:00:58.880 --> 02:01:02.800
that we can still work the same way even though it's harder to you know what i mean you don't

2089
02:01:02.800 --> 02:01:07.200
have that like magic thing where it all happens automatically just because we're all smart you

2090
02:01:07.200 --> 02:01:19.760
know yep great yeah cool um uh let's see um i just want to see the link to your board that

2091
02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:34.000
you just made today i will share that okay great bump bump bump share return link on

2092
02:01:35.120 --> 02:01:38.160
copy the link i'll share that in the chat here

2093
02:01:42.880 --> 02:01:48.080
sweet yeah we got it awesome i see we can still like keep adding to it

2094
02:01:48.720 --> 02:01:55.280
yeah cool and then you'll see um you'll see that there's also on the share link this uh

2095
02:01:55.280 --> 02:02:01.680
this iframe embed in case you want to drop that into notion or something else excellent cool

2096
02:02:03.360 --> 02:02:10.240
all right folks i mean nice work um i mean super cool to like go from the shaping session to then

2097
02:02:10.240 --> 02:02:15.520
like seeing that it's all wired and working and uh you know and uh you guys have a very good handle

2098
02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:19.840
on where you're at and and what's next and stuff like that so you know very nice work

2099
02:02:20.960 --> 02:02:26.080
awesome thank you that was a great session appreciate it all right cool okay see you guys

2100
02:02:26.080 --> 02:02:31.440
and uh bruce i'll follow up with an email with the uh with the zoom uh recording again like last

2101
02:02:31.440 --> 02:02:39.120
time yeah that's great thanks great okay see you all take care thanks bye bye