Hey there. Hey. I love your hair. It's the bouffant look. I love it. It's like, this
is the way I wear it most of the time. And then in the summer, because we have a pool
and I'm always swimming, I will wear it curly just because it's getting wet and I'm sweating
and all that. But I got it done the other day for the first time in five months and
I have no more roots. I know. There's just, I know. There's just nothing that makes a
woman just feel so good. Like, yeah, getting your hair done or going to the nail salon
or something. Just like, ah, I feel like a woman again. Oh, I know it. Like I was counting
down the days I was, you know, it's funny. I got my hair done literally the day before
everything shut down for COVID. My mom did too. Not knowing that that's what was going
to happen. I did it like three days before COVID, not knowing it was going to happen.
Yeah, exactly. Me too. Like, I remember so many of my friends were traveling at the time
that COVID hit because it was Canada's March break at the time. Yeah, us too. Yeah. Oh,
was it? Okay. So yeah, everyone like, they're like, you got to get back to your country.
It's crazy. Last, last summer we traveled all over. I was all over last summer. We went
to three countries in Europe. We went to, um, went to Wisconsin cause I have a good
friend there. I went to Texas for four days with some friends and my husband. And then
we went to, um, oh my gosh, a few other places. I can't even remember. And then this summer
we had nothing, nothing planned at all, which was perfect because we would have had to cancel
it all. I know, I know. I may not have gotten your money back and all of that. So we're
just new. He's like, no, we're just going to stay home this summer. Yep. Absolutely.
Yeah. So, so thank you for your, um, your polo. I did watch it like kind of a little
bit last night and the rest today. So it was very good. And yeah, I, I always appreciate
them and I, yeah, no, I, I always appreciate them. So thank you. You're welcome. How are
you doing? I'm doing good. Doing good. I'm at my parents' house right now. Um, I don't
know if you saw the, the trouble I was having with my, um, uh, live yesterday. So my phone
kept dying and so it kept cutting off the live. Um, and uh, anyway, so, um, I, uh, finally
got the teaching done in two sessions and I haven't decided, Oh, is someone there? Oh,
okay. I thought, I didn't know if maybe your little girl was there and she,
um, but, um, uh, I, um, I wasn't, I'm not sure. I'm probably going to redo it just because I feel
like, well, it was fine and I could just leave it. I feel that, um, it, it probably, um,
I don't know until I get feedback if it's, if it came across a bit, uh, disjointed to people.
And so I figured, well, I bet you I could say it a lot more succinctly. So I might,
I might just redo it. But anyway, so I had to do a couple of different lives and, um,
and I was here and then today I'm going to, um, and my point is saying that is I mentioned in
there, you know, that I had gone to Louisiana for a week, Little Rock for a week. And then
now back here in DFW here at my parents' house until today, tonight, I'm going to go to my
friend's house. She and I are going to go to a conference, a healing conference for three days.
And then, um, I'm going to come back here to my parents' house most likely before I head out.
And I believe I'm heading to Houston after this. Um, I think I'm heading to Houston next week
and then we'll see where I go from there. I've got some ideas that plans that are ruminating.
So anyway, but yeah, I'm doing really good. Um, and, uh, just, just doing everything and rest,
including business. And the Lord told me, you know, invited me to travel with them and meaning
that in with hit on the word come or in the word come is everything that I need to be fully
sustained. And so if I have a business while I'm doing it, um, while I'm traveling, um,
and there are things that he wants to teach me because really this journey is to grow in intimacy
with the Lord. Um, and, uh, that is what I asked for something new every year, um, from the Lord,
um, at my birthday. And that's kind of how I see my years. I, I, I measure them from like,
measure them, view them from like birthday to birthday. And I was born in May at the end of
May. So from May to May is what I consider like a, a year. So to speak, like when I'm
back. And, and so this year I asked the Lord that I would, that I would grow in intimacy
with him, um, where, where, um, we just can talk more intimately, more, um, even more
like friends, more like lovers that I just go to him, you know, in ways that maybe my
heart is still too afraid to go to him and not used to doing all of that. So then he
invited me on this trip. And so I know that that's what he's, um, fostering and developing
in it because just really, truly relying on the Lord as I, as I travel around. And, um,
so I know that he's fostering, uh, and deepening my relationship with him in it. And then while
I am listening to what, how it is that he wants me to, um, operate my business, meaning
like what activities and, uh, I hope, and just desiring to bring the presence of the
Lord to whoever it is that I, whoever it is that I meet and encounter on, on the travels.
Um, so anyway, that's what I'm doing. That's how, that's how I'm doing.
That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. And I watched a little bit of your live. Um, I found it
interesting. You're, you're sharing. I always find it interesting when you share, because
I think I've told you this before, but you know, the way you look, the way you present
yourself now, you know, my experience of you now, I wouldn't have thought you had experienced
a lot of the stuff you talk about because you seem to, you know, you seem very loving,
very willing and able to connect with people. You seem like you've kind of got a lot figured
out as far as your relationship with the Lord, like in that vertical relationship. And like,
I feel like you use that and you spread it in a horizontal way, sort of, I mean, putting
pictures to it. Um, so when you share about friendships, it surprises me because I would
have thought, you know, you would have had lots of friends and you would have been like,
it would have been, you would have had a group of friends that you were friends with for
like 30 years and you're all still friends and you were friends since kindergarten. And,
and it's so interesting to me, you know, when we look at somebody, when we experienced somebody
now, and I get this a lot, but it, it, it still surprises me with certain people. When
I look at them and think, wow, I did not realize that that person had experienced so much because
the way they present themselves at this point in their life, it's like, wow, they've got so
much figured out. And anyway, so I don't know if you get that a lot from people, but what's
interesting about it is that you, if you didn't express those things, my, um, view of you would
be, um, it wouldn't be as like three dimensional as it is at this point. I feel like when I first
started getting to know you, um, again, like you were very sweet. You were very easy to talk to.
I enjoyed getting your messages and responding and our conversations and all that. And then
you showed me how to like do video. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I did my first live in my
group yesterday, which was huge. So you introduced me to more video and I'm, I'm a video girl,
but not a live video girl. Like I act, I sing, but I live videos. I like to know my lines and
know my words. So I thought, you know what, I'm just going to go for it. So anyway, I liked our
conversations and everything. And I feel like the more I get to know you, the more I like you,
the more I see the depth of who you are and the fact that you're teaching this from a place of
understanding and empathy and having experienced kind of the opposite of where you are now. And
you know, so when people come into your life, you understand their experiences and what they've been
through and that kind of thing. So I feel like it's a lot easier for me to share with you now,
because at first I thought, oh, she's got it all figured out. I felt like I was the one who had
all this stuff in my past that I thought, well, man, I don't know if I can relate to this girl.
I don't know how much she's really experienced.
But yeah, I am what it looks like when God has restored, redeemed, and resurrected a life.
It looks this, and I'm not trying to talk about, you know, I'm not trying to say in that, that,
oh, I look, I look perfect and I like this. And I'm not trying to say that. I'm trying to say
that the fact that people can.
tell when they look at me or when they interact with me that they can't detect
what I hope that you're saying and what I believe that you're saying is that you
can't detect any any bitterness that we associate with someone who has gone
through that has gone through such negativity that has gone through such
heartache that's gone through such pain it's gone through such attack and and
that's what it looks like when you know in other words being able to look at
somebody and and and not have any inkling of an idea that they have been
through what they've been through because we're because the Lord has
redeemed and restored them as if it had never happened is that they had never
experienced any of those things and as opposed to well you know all of those
things we can use those and those things can become part of us and they can
whatever and just like look gag you want that you know we want it to be fully
restored as back to the way that God created us where it's as if those things
never happened and you know the Lord talks about he said I will make your
sins and though they be a scarlet I will make them as white as snow well the
interesting thing about scarlet is which you're very familiar with and being in
Canada is obviously scarlet is the color of the mounting red coats and that is
one of the that I think that that is the most from my experience and from what I
understand from from painting and color and all of that that is literally the
hardest color to get and which is why it was one of the one of the colors of
like royalty etc is is a beautiful dip deep rich scarlet because of the amount
of dye and time that is required in order to soak into a fabric where it's
just enough where it it it turns it into that color without them bleeding onto
everything else that might come in contact with it in other words it's so
except into every single fiber of it meaning that you literally can't get it
out like not even figuratively it's literally impossible so that God talks
about the fact they said that your skins bit sins be a scarlet I will make them
as white as not white as snow the only way to do it because you can't it can't
be you can't take it out the only way to do it is to can just completely reverse
and meaning that you're it's completely undyed it's as if it had never ever been
dyed and that's literally impossible in our world for that to happen but he says
you know I'll make your senses though they'd be a scarlet as white as snow and
same thing you know with the experiences that we go through that he wants us to
know and and and receive from him that he wants to completely restore us as if
it had never happened that there would no longer remain any evidence of it as
in evidence is in a negative evidence there is such a thing as obviously the
fact that when Jesus when Jesus resurrected that his body still bore
the scars but that is not seen as a negative thing because of course the
Lord would not tell us that he could restore us completely back to back to
who it is that we were before without any negative effects and still Jesus
resurrected with scars so apparently it's just not a negativity kind of like
what do you call it up Jacob when Jacob wrestled with the Lord and then the
angel touched his hip and he walks for a lot with a limp ever after that and it's
not it's not seen as the negative thing like this like this I don't know like
this punishment that he had to continue to bear so anyway my point is just is
just that God desires to completely fully restore us in the fact that we now
look as if it had never happened that we bear no evidence and no negative or ill
effects of what it is that we went through and we're just we're just
stronger and anyway so and he just fully promises that hopefully restore
so it's an encouragement to get to hear you say that because man for a while I
was just I was in such pain such bitterness that people didn't like being
around me I didn't like being around me and like you so how are you in
friendships now are you pretty open to friendship or are you more are you still
a little closed off no you're open
Yeah, I have, there are certain relationships, yeah, that I'm still working through how to
be open, but generally speaking, yes, I'm very, very open, but it's kind of like rest
in the fact that I'm learning how to do it in greater and greater measures.
Same thing with relationships.
I think that I'm very, very open and that I run into an issue, I run into a trigger,
something that reminds me of, you know, this old record of this old belief that I have
in me that apparently I still believing and it's still, you know, haven't trusted and
believe the Lord that I am who he says that I am kind of a thing.
So it's still run into that.
So, so it's not that, so just talking in general, how you're referring to the quest, the question
that you're referring to, yes, very open to friendships, very open relationships where
I just, I just meet new people and I don't have an agenda.
I don't sit there and think, well, I wonder, and I don't remember if I mentioned this in
the live or not, but well, you know, I'm, I'm seeing this new person at church and well,
I don't know, are they the kind of person that I can see myself wanting to be friends
with for 10 years or not?
Because I'm only interested in people that looks like I'll get along with, like, no,
if they're another human being, I'm going to meet him and I might, we might get a lunch
and just, just to get to know them because there's no agenda.
I'm not like trying to establish something long-term.
I'm trying to interact with another human being.
I'm trying to just pour, bring heaven into earth by my interaction with them, that they
might be exposed more to the Lord and that me by learning who it is that they are and
seeing them in the spirit, which you're very familiar with doing, you know, with people,
then I get to see a different facet of, of my God.
I get to see him in a way that I'd never seen him before because he expresses himself differently
and very uniquely in that other person.
And by not having an agenda and just meeting people and, and just enjoying people because
of who it is that they are, whether or not they believe that they are who God says that
they are.
I know they truly are that person.
And I desire to get to know somebody that the Lord says in the spirit, I'm one with.
And anyway, just enjoy him because I'm now, I'm now free to enjoy other people because
I no longer hold them obligated to meet any need of mine.
So it's very freeing.
I don't feel, I don't have to feel threatened.
I don't have to feel afraid of, or they can accept me or reject me or anything like that.
It's, it's really, really nice.
So yeah, when before I used to apply a lot of strategies to getting to know other people
because I found it very challenging.
I felt that there was, and I used to talk about this to my mom and, and other, and other
people that were listening to my pain and my struggles.
I'm like, I do not understand it.
Why does there seem to be like this secret formula that everybody else knows about how
to interact with others and make friends?
And I'm a very nice person and I'm very loving to other people.
I'm very kind.
I'm not mean.
Why on earth do people not want to be friends with me?
And I just didn't understand it.
And it felt like there was this, this super secret magic sauce that everybody else had
discovered.
And that no matter how hard I tried, that that was the problem I was, I was trying and
it was hard and it was hard work.
I couldn't figure it out.
And so once I shifted into rest, everything just became, became effortless.
I had to choose what it says that I was.
And then every, and then it became very easy to, to have friends and to make friends.
It's no longer this it's no longer this game with, with rules that I'm trying to figure
out.
So were you, were you kind of like codependent and needy with friends, like kind of hoping
they would meet a certain need inside you or you didn't feel maybe enough love for yourself.
So if they felt a certain way about you, you felt better about yourself or you put their
needs before yours.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I felt that I wasn't worth anything and that everybody else was worth more than I was.
So that my lot in life was to, to help everybody else get and be what they wanted and what
they needed and that I didn't matter.
But I was always really hoping that, that I would, that the new relationship that I
was going to start with this person would be, would give me something that would make
me feel better about myself, make me feel like someone valued me for more than what
it is that I could provide them.
But because that was the energy that I was emitting, the, in other words, the belief
that I was emitting about myself, that I was attracting those people that wanted to use
me to make themselves feel better, or they would be attracted to me because they saw
who it was that I really was in the spirit, but because I didn't believe that that's who
I was.
not who I would present to them. And they eventually found me to be very tiring to be around.
And then they would eventually pull away. So just because they just found me to be exhausting.
So anyway. Yeah, it's so interesting. You've, you've obviously, the Lord has obviously worked
on that a lot with you, which is amazing. And, you know, it's interesting because most of my
clients that I work with are in a similar place to where you used to be, you know, in that space.
So I get it. And I've been there too. So most of the stuff that you, friendships for me,
for the most part, have been pretty, God's blessed me in that area. But there have been many areas in
my life that I like, I don't know if I told you that when I, when I was 12, I was suicidal.
And when I was 16, I tried to commit suicide. So when I was really young, I hated myself and I,
God has worked on me with like the depression and the suicidal thoughts and a whole slew of things.
And so he's healed me of a ton, which is amazing. And like I said, even the past three years or so
has been an opportunity for him to heal me even more to the point, like, you know,
I think he sometimes uses, I forget where the verse is, but the comfort, he comforts us with
the comfort that he wants us to use to comfort others. And we can use our experiences, I think,
to help others, to comfort them. And so, you know, a lot of times people talk to me about things,
and I think sometimes people don't think that I'm going to understand what they've gone through.
And I'm like, nope, I get it. Like, and I make sure, because I have been told several times
by different people in my life that, you know, you've got to be a little more vulnerable about
your experiences, because I would kind of know what to say, but I wouldn't share enough of my
own story for them to go, oh, I can connect to her. So I started sharing more. So now when I'm
on calls with clients or when I'm going to do more lives, I'll share more about myself, because I
think people don't always know when they look at somebody, all of the experiences they've had.
And I think, you know, I can touch on them, but I don't need to stay there. Whereas before I would,
you know, ruminate in them, I would be sitting in the bottom of a well, and I didn't know how to
get out. But now I'm out of the well, so I can still look in and go, oh yeah, that's where I
used to be, but I'm not there anymore. So, but yeah, that's interesting. And yeah, you shared
that story about the narcissist that was stalking you. That is insane. And the gun thing, oh my gosh,
I get it, because that is, it's scary. Yeah, yeah, it is. I know it was, it was,
yeah, it was, it was interesting. But you know, it was such that, you know, narcissist, and that's
how the word taught me about narcissist was through this person, because I didn't understand what a
narcissist was. I kept hearing the term, but I'd always forget what it meant. And suddenly I don't,
I don't know, what is a narcissist? And then suddenly a friend of mine kept posting things
about a narcissist that they were dealing, that they were trying to recover from, from their past.
And I was like, what on earth is that? So I Googled it again. I'm like, and then I started
hearing how she would describe things. So she was posting articles and stuff like that. So I started
reading it. I thought, wait a minute, that sounds very familiar because I was having problems with
this person, but I couldn't figure them out because it was like, I knew I finally figured
out, okay, I can't trust them, but I didn't know for a long time that I couldn't trust them. I kept
going like, I don't trust them, but everybody else is that I should trust them. And that I should
give them a chance. And they were telling me that they could, that I should trust them. And they,
they always act perfect and kind. And all of it is that I'm hearing that's negative is always
hearsay from someone else. And, and I'm just like, Ashley, you know, you can't take other
people's word for that. And you've got to take people's own word for it. Anyway, it was just,
you know, just, you know, how, how, how narcissists are and how they can just paint
themselves as like this perfect person and that, and they can get you to, they just figure out who
it is that they're around and what it is that those, that, that those other people think highly
of. And, and then they can, they can be like a chameleon and form into that. In fact, I even had
them tell me at one point when they basically told me they, they all but proposed and they had a
conversation. They want to have a conversation with me. They all, and by this time I had rejected
them multiple times. And then they were having one last conversation with me, so to speak. And
they, they all but proposed. And one of the things that it was just driving him crazy.
And I remember him sitting across the table from me.
saying, Ashley, what do you want?
In other words, what do I want from somebody
that I'm interested in?
And in my mind, I'm going, that's the problem, dude.
You keep conforming to what it is that you think that I want
and I know that about you and I have no respect for that.
And I don't mean like I just had no respect
or no value of this person.
I didn't mean that.
I just kind of like, as a woman for a man,
I'm like, I have no respect for someone
who's trying to figure out, well, what does she want
and I'll become that.
Because I could tell that that's what he was doing.
And of course, by that time, I had a label for it,
of narcissism and I had been able to pull away.
But anyway, until that time though,
it was very, very confusing.
It was this, it was, and it gets to the point
where they always get you to doubt yourself.
Now, they never, they knew how to play it.
They knew how to not blame me
because they knew that I wouldn't take that,
but they would blame everybody else.
And that was telling me things,
negative things about him to me.
And they would blame everybody else except he and I
and saying, you know what, Ashley,
we just need to leave them to their drama.
I'm perfectly fine.
You know, he said, everything it is
that you've been believing about me
that has turned you against me and all of that.
He said, that is not your fault.
It, you know, he knew how to do it.
He knew how to play all of that.
And to get me to trust him.
So the other people, you know, his family
and other people in my life,
they didn't recognize it for what it was.
So I felt that I was, and here was the ultimate problem.
The ultimate problem wasn't the fact that he scared me.
He didn't scare me.
Oh, it did get to the point where he was so obsessed with me
that his, and the only reason I'm telling you all of this
is because I know that you're, that you have a history
and an experience.
And I just wanted you to know,
and I can understand from the way that you describe things
that it's very extreme.
So I just was giving you some highlights
because you told me, you know, that when I share my story,
that it's helpful to know, you know,
my personal experience.
So you know that if you ever feel comfortable
sharing anything with me,
to what depth that you believe that I actually can relate
and I can understand just by experience.
But anyway, he'd been in the military
and his friends, he'd been in the military.
I'd never met them at the time,
but they told a mutual friend, mutual friends of ours.
Hey, look, we're gonna go talk,
we're gonna talk to him tonight.
He's obsessed with Ashley and it is very unhealthy.
It's unhealthy for her,
especially because she keeps rejecting him
and he won't accept it.
And having worked with him in the military,
we know what he's capable of.
And so we're gonna talk to him tonight.
We're very concerned about how he's gonna react.
And we believe that he's good,
that the first thing he's gonna do is to come after Ashley
to make sure he doesn't lose her.
So see, he and I weren't dating or anything,
but he kept wanting to, is the point.
So anyway, so they told me through mutual friends,
you tell Ashley, and these are his guy friends,
these are his guy buddies that he was in Afghanistan with,
in the middle of warfare.
They said, you tell Ashley,
we're gonna talk to him tonight
and to not go anywhere by herself for 48 hours.
Do not ever be by herself for 48 hours.
And I'm going, what?
I mean, these are guys that have seen each other
and they're the ones who truly know each other.
So that terrified me.
So anyway, I started raising alarm bells.
I'm asking for someone to help me.
I'm asking for someone to help protect me
where I'm not alone,
where I know that I have support and all of that.
And I felt that I really didn't have the support
because people were confused.
They didn't know what to believe.
And at the end of it, they didn't really believe him.
And they thought that I had just listened to drama queens.
He had taken everything out of proportion, et cetera.
So that's what ultimately,
my point is that that ultimately what scared me
about the whole situation, it wasn't him.
I wasn't actually, besides that one night
and that 48 hours of being told,
hey, look, you know, by his army buddies
that, hey, you should be very, very afraid.
We know this guy and you should be very afraid.
So besides that, and this was, my goodness,
this was several years ago, six years.
This was probably six years ago.
I hadn't realized it was that long ago.
It was about six years ago.
In fact, it was, I remember,
I remember how old my niece was at the time.
So six years ago is when all of this happened.
And so besides that, I wasn't afraid of him.
I didn't feel necessarily threatened.
What I realized later,
and I realized
this. And when I took the gun with me, and that, and then
finally, when people realized I was taking a gun with me where I
was going, just in case he found me, all of a sudden, everyone
else started taking me seriously. But because before it
was just words that I was telling them, Hey, look, I'm
afraid. Look, I'm worried about this. Look, I'm telling you,
this is who he is. And as I was actually, he's not ever
presenting himself like that to us. And we would know, and I'm
like, no, seriously. So it wasn't until I took a gun with
me, that they realized how much fear that I was in. And all of
a sudden, everyone took action. And they went and they rallied
the troops and his family and his family started. How would
you put it, taking the his harassment of me seriously. And
as opposed to just Oh, well, he likes her and whatever. No, no,
they started taking it as harassment. Because that's the
word I started using was like, No, you've got to understand
this is it. And so they're like, you know, you're right. That's
what these actions look like. So anyway, I was grateful for that.
So when finally everyone started accepting the fact that, that I
really was afraid. And that and and started and I started
telling them things that I hadn't fully relayed to them.
What all he had been doing. Finally, they, they started, I
started feeling like I had support. And I noticed as soon
as I felt like I had support, I was fine. So I realized then
that I he wasn't who I was afraid of. It was the fact that
I felt I was alone and no one and that if I should need
anything, that I couldn't, I didn't have any means of
support. And I wasn't being believed and I wasn't being
protected and provided for. That's really what my fear was.
So it's just it's evidence is a physical picture of the fact
that it's not the thing that we're afraid of. It's the fact
that we believe that God is not protecting and providing for us
that we're in a place of life. That's really our fear. It's not
the thing itself. Anyway, so that was the way that it all
played out in my life. But anyway, oh, yeah, and it was
just it was it was got worse and worse and worse. It got to the
point where he broke up with his girlfriend and he used me
as the excuse and she and I were friends at the time. Oh, it was
just it was awful. It was just awful.
They are they are really interesting people.
They are.
That's why I was kind of asking you about about them because I
wanted to understand more about God and I liked what you said
about manipulation. You said when somebody turns you against
yourself and how it's witchcraft and I was like, oh my gosh, that
is exactly it's exactly what happened to me. I am so so three
years ago, four years ago. I guess it was about four years
ago now four and a half. Um, I had had my daughter and I had
really bad postpartum anxiety and I was struggling a lot just
in life just with a whole bunch of things and a friend of mine
who was my vocal instructor actually wonderful beautiful
girl. She not a Christian. I was a strong Christian. I thought I
had you know, I had all the things that you would think
someone would need to have but but I there was still something
missing. So I went to a vocal lesson and my my friend Julia was
telling me all about this company she was involved in this
personal development company. And I'm like, Oh, this is sounds
good. So I told my husband about it and he had heard of the
company before he actually had a book by the previous owner of
the company. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. So I said,
well, they're coming for a weekend seminar and Julia and
her husband have already gone through the whole program, but
they're going to be there that weekend and you know, I'd like
to go so we ended up going and I've done a lot of personal
development in my life. So for me, a lot of the stuff was
repetitive. And I wasn't super interested in going to the next
level because they basically bring you in they teach you all
this stuff about mindset about, you know, basically taking
biblical principles and turning them into like, something that's
but because my lens was biblical. This is so interesting
because you and I, this will help you understand some of my
past. So the fact that they had these principles that I knew
coincided with the Bible, but I couldn't tell you that the
language was the
same. They weren't using verses to explain them until I found out later on there was a Christian
component to this weekend, but it was like a separate type of weekend. They called it something
different, but it was completely Bible-based. So it was all the same activities, but Bible-based.
I thought, okay, so this all goes along with the Bible. It's good. Like something like their
formula, intention plus mechanism equals result. So you need your intention for your result. And
so they turned this stuff into what I felt was like, yeah, this aligns really well.
And my husband's a strong Christian too, and he felt like it aligned. And it was his church
10 years ago that was the one promoting this company. So they were known for going into
churches and doing this stuff. So I thought, okay, I don't see anything wrong with it.
But Jason really wanted to go to the next level. And I didn't really have any interest because
it was really expensive. By the time we actually went, it was in Colorado. So by the time we went
there back and flew and paid for our accommodations at the ranch and did the whole week,
it was like three grand each. Wow. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a lot of money. But
he knew I was struggling and he really wanted to go. And then I said, okay, well, if I get
you know, some money from my dad or whatever, then I will. So anyway, things worked out and I
decided to go. But he went first in May. And then I went in August. He came back in May,
went for a week and he didn't say a whole lot about it. But I went to my friend Julia's wedding
right before I was about to go in August. And there were a few other people there who had been
through the whole program. They're like, oh my gosh, wait till you go. You're going to experience
this amazing transformation, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay, cool. Well, that would be
awesome. So funny thing was, I was in massive resistance, massive resistance to going. I didn't
know why. Because I like personal development. I like to travel. Did not want to go. Never been
to Colorado. Had no interest on, I can't tell you why. It was just like in my spirit, I didn't want
to go. And so my friend Julia had given me a book from the lead facilitator, this woman who owned
the company. And she was going to facilitate that week that I was going to in August. So
right around the time of her wedding, she gave me this woman's book. And she said, read this
because you're going to meet her and she's facilitating the whole week. And I think it'd
be really good for you. So I thought, okay. I looked at the cover of the book and it was a
picture of this woman who kind of looked like me, which was kind of crazy. And I had, I brought it
home and I put it on my nightstand face up because I thought I was going to read it. And I couldn't
actually keep it on my nightstand face up. I had to turn it over so that I couldn't see her picture.
And I'm like, that's weird. So then I actually couldn't even keep it on my nightstand. I had
to put it on the floor face down. Like it was so messed up. And again, I'm like, what's wrong with
me? Like, I don't know why, why I'm doing this, but that's what happened. So I get on the plane
to go. I have her book. I start to read it. Pulls me in right away. It is like so powerful. Her
testimony, her, it's not about God really. It's about this program and this organization that
she's now the president of and how it changed her life and how, you know, all of the abuse she went
through, all of the trauma she went through. And I thought, oh my gosh, like she's overcome so much.
If this is possible for her, what's possible for me? And I related to her so much and I was so
excited to meet her at this point. But when I, when I first, and oh, so this is interesting too.
So we go to sleep that night, we get to the ranch. So the ranch is three hours away from the airport.
So we take a bus for three hours, get to the ranch. It's in the middle of nowhere.
You'll understand why I'm telling you all this.
No, I'm fine. I love, I love them. I love details because I like to visualize everything. I think
that's where, that's where all the color of the story is in.
Okay. Beautiful. So I get up the next morning with this new roommate. I didn't know anyone there. So
I met this girl. I was in the bunk. We were four of us in a cabin. So went to breakfast with her
and we were walking toward the main area where we were going to meet our whole facilitation team.
And I've always had a very strong spiritual connection to deer. And, and I, I've never
really like been close up to a deer, but whenever I see one, it's like a very spiritual moment in
some way. So we're walking toward the main area and there's a family of three deer walking around
the ranch together. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And so I'm standing there and the deer, the teenage
deer, the smaller one walks right up.
to me and starts licking my hand. And I am in shock because I've been praying, God, show
me why I'm here. Like, is this where I'm supposed to be? Give me a sign. I'm like, this is a sign.
This is like, it just, everything felt right. So messed up. Felt so right. Except there was
still this part inside me with this woman who I was about to meet. So when I walked into the
main area, I saw her standing there behind the table. And I was like, oh, that's her. And I was
kind of in a little bit of an awe of her because of her book and her experience. And she seemed
to be where I wanted to be. And she had been where I was currently. And I just thought, wow,
I want to experience this. And she came to the front of the room and it was this weird mix that
I had of complete resistance to her and wanting to get close to her. It was so weird. And it was
50-50. And so she saw me right away. And in a group of about 50 people who were all together
for the week, she had a bullseye on me. And she saw me and that was the end.
And she targeted me with like the craziest stuff. Very, very much a tear you down and build you up
kind of person. So she would insult me. And then in the next sentence, she would say something
nice about me. And it was very confusing. And she would say, I'm only doing this because I want the
best for you. I love you. I want the best for you. And I would talk to this other facilitator
there who seemed really nice. And she's like, no, no, no. She really does care. She sees you as her
mirror and she sees your pain and she wants to help you. I call my friend Julia at home. What is
up with this woman? I thought you said she was awesome. She is. She just loves you enough to
tell you the truth. And if she's giving you all this feedback, you're lucky. Because she only
targets people that are really like you have a lot of greatness in them and she wants to pull it
out. So all these people are telling me how blessed I am to have this woman targeting me with all of
this stuff. And all this stuff happened that week. And I won't get into all the details about it. But
basically the theme of it was she did things that week to pull me in. Big things. Very
manipulative things that I didn't see at the time. Things like we were on a zip line and she
made a mistake on the zip line. It was so messed up. So you're supposed to just slide down.
She actually didn't unhook me. So when I went to slide down, I fell. And I didn't fall all the way
to the ground. But she did it so she could like pull me back up and be like, oh, I just didn't
want to let go of you. I just wanted to keep you close. And she made up all these reasons. Oh,
Jesus caught you. And like it was just a everything she did was very mechanical. And
that's like if I told you all the stuff that happened that week, it would absolutely blow
your mind. I was a changed person when I left. Before I left the week, she said, I want to have
a friendship with you. And I was like, really? This is surprising. Because I just saw her as,
it's almost like a teacher-student relationship. But she's about five years older than me. So
I thought, okay, well, that would be cool. I really wanted to be her friend.
And I wanted to believe all the things she said were true.
But I didn't realize that I was in a cult. That's the word that keeps coming to mind.
I'm like, this is so cultish. I had no idea that I was in a cult for a year and a half.
And in that year and a half, she almost destroyed me.
Um, tore me down and built me up over and over and over and over again. We'd have hour-long,
hours-long phone calls. I would get off the phone with her and go downstairs to my husband
bawling or just numb, not knowing how to explain. And he was going through that. He knew her. And
he's like, everyone thought she was the most, she's like, if you've ever watched cult documentaries
and everyone worships the leader. Uh, I've heard about that. Yeah. Okay. So in a cult,
everyone worships the leader, the leaders like God. So for me, I actually said the words that
she reminded me of Jesus, the way she was. She was so loving and so giving, but at the same time,
she was tearing me down and building me up, but it was all because she loved me so much that I
was worth it. It was so confusing. And the things
that she did to pull me in um physically even like touching me all the time when we were together and
um emotionally always being like really in tune with me and it was like all the stuff I didn't
have when I was a kid from my mother it's like she knew that's exactly what I needed
and she used all that and again I didn't know what was happening to me and nobody in the program
really were able to see it either because they were all indoctrinated already yeah so and so was
I so after that week where I thought God transformed me it was actually because I was totally indoctrinated
I came home from that week and I was like I'm bringing everyone I know into this program
I got like seven of my friends within a week to sign up to come to the next weekend that was in
our city they all came and then they were going to go to the advanced course that I went to
by the time that happened I'd already gone to the next level and was in the next level after that
and in between this woman and I um I don't I don't call her her real name because it's a
trigger still a little bit but her her fake name is Jamie so um so you know I'm corresponding with
her we're getting closer and closer and I actually at this point don't even know who I am anymore I
don't know my identity I don't know who I am apart from her I don't know where I end and she begins
we are just like like this and I I'm ready to quit my teaching job I'm ready to leave my husband and
my daughter and go off and work for her full-time and basically be in this group again not ever
hearing the word cult oh yeah just thinking I'd found the most amazing thing in the world
I wanted to be a part of it and so I my friends um four of them came to the advanced course
after I'd been in the program for about a year a year and a half and I just happened
to have March break that week so I was able to go and staff it and I that was the first time
my two girlfriend them all these are very strong Christians but two of the girls are like so in
tune with the Lord that they can see stuff that I at that point I couldn't see and both of them
were like you're in a cult and I'm like you're in resistance this was the word if anybody disagreed
they were in resistance so I am yeah so interesting so they have all this loaded language that they
use so it's thought-stopping language that you can just use a word and it's yeah it's loaded
language right so yeah so anyway they came home after that week and they went straight to my
pastor who's a friend of mine straight to him and they're like Alana's in a cult you have to help her
and he's like okay I I can't force her to leave I will pray for her my wife so his wife
Kobe is a really close friend she was watching me another woman who works at the church that's a
good friend was watching me so he felt like I've got enough people around her that are
keeping tabs on her calling her making sure everything's okay and at this point again if I
told you some of the stories of what happened to me and what she did to me like in front of 80
different people in front of 80 people tearing me down for over an hour just just bashing me
emotionally and mentally and and all because it was for my own good she would say I don't want to
have to be this mean to you I do it because you're worth it and I love you like really abusive yeah
correct so I had a phone call recorded when we were on a group call as part of one of these levels
and you weren't ever supposed to tell anyone what happened inside the group
so I know all this sounds I should I didn't know anything about cults or anything about narcissists
or nothing I knew nothing so I'm so blind at this point and so I had this recording of this
conversation where for about half an hour she just ripped me to shreds she called me names she's like
you're you're a walking barbie doll who's trying to show people how to live life and you have no
idea you're delusional you're a fraud you're like she just called me all these names and again for
my own benefit and I like at this point just was so lost and I went to a couple I went to a friend
and I went to a psychologist and I said I'm going to play you a recording and I want you to give me
your honest opinion because I feel like this is love and I'm really hurting and I don't know why
and so I played it for both of them and they're like this is extreme abuse like this is so bad
and they were they were appalled so then I thought okay like this isn't good this is this is bad so
But then I couldn't separate from her because I was in a trauma bond.
And that trauma bond, that soul tie was so strong that I didn't know how to get away
from her at that point.
So I tried to cut off the relationship and I kept going back.
It was such a cycle of abuse.
And she would just keep pulling me back in and I'd keep going back and then I'd leave
because I knew it was like, I got to get out of here.
This is not good.
Started seeing a deprogramming counselor, an exit counselor for cults.
Was seeing two other therapists at the same time.
And I even tried to explain to her, the way you're treating me feels abusive.
I don't know how to...
The other problem was because everyone else thought she was wonderful, I was the only
one who didn't.
So I was having problems believing myself.
So when you're in a cult, one thing they do is they give you almost like a pseudo identity,
which is your cult identity.
You always have your initial identity, your God identity, but the pseudo identity is what
causes you to be really indoctrinated.
So the deprogramming counseling, a lot of that, and my other counselors were helping
chip away at the pseudo identity so I could get back to who I was.
Because I was so scared because I didn't know who I was.
And I actually went through suicidal thoughts again that summer in 2018, because I didn't
want to live because I didn't know who I was.
And I certainly didn't know who I was apart from her.
So once I finally cut it off and blocked her, I was a mess.
And I knew I had to stay away, but I didn't know how to live my life without her telling
me who I was supposed to be.
I didn't know how I was going to be successful or how I was going to move forward and experience
this amazing life without her helping me.
So it was very messy for a while.
I spent almost every day that summer in the dark in my room, Googling narcissist, Googling,
like trying to, I had no idea what had happened to me.
I had no idea I was in a cult, like it was so messed up.
And so I-
Gaslighting.
Oh my gosh, the gaslighting was crazy.
So then I, because I was in such confusion, I wrote, because I blog, so I wrote a blog
and I titled it, is this a case of love or abuse?
And I was like, tell me what you think of this.
And so I wrote out word for word conversations, everything that happened for the most part,
all the big kind of moments.
And every single person who commented was like, this is total abuse.
Some guy was like, is your crap detector so faulty that you cannot see that this is
abuse?
I was like, I guess.
You're not helping because that's how she talks to me.
I know.
Well, that's what my husband said, because I was reading him the comments and it was,
it was messed up because so many people just saw what I couldn't see.
So I knew with everyone around, every single friend I have, every single person in my life
was like, you are not to have anything to do with her.
My pastor met with my husband to help him understand how much I needed to actually break
everyone off from the cult that I had become friends with.
So I deleted like over a hundred people on my Facebook.
You know, my, my pastor is like one of the cleanest guys you'll ever meet.
He's so normal and strong and clean.
And like, there's no ego, there's no false pretense.
He's just healthy.
And he's built an amazingly, well, God has built through him this amazing church.
And he, I take his word very seriously because he chooses his words very carefully too.
And he said to my husband, you know, this woman, she's like a pedophile and Alana is
her prey and you've got to keep her away.
And that's, that's how bad it was.
And I'm a, I'm a 40 year old woman at this point thinking, how on earth did I get groomed
as a 40 year old woman in this situation?
So my healing process included a bunch of things, but a lot of it was forgiveness.
So I did a podcast, a friend of mine is a big influencer on Instagram.
She has like over a million followers.
So she wanted to start a podcast and she's like, your story of forgiveness is awesome.
Can you share it on my podcast?
And I'm like, sure.
I thought, well, Jamie's never going to hear it because there are like 800,000 podcasts.
Well, guess what?
Somehow she found it.
And so there are flying monkeys that have still been watching me and I have done my
best to block everyone from any social media, but it's not, it's not a perfect system.
There are ways, and I'm not afraid anymore.
There was a time there when I was a little bit afraid, but I'm not afraid.
I think the biggest thing for me with all of it is being thankful to God that he got
me out.
Um, that he sent.
my two little friends as angels to come to that week away
and come back and say, Alana's in a cult.
And that was huge.
What he taught me about like you with narcissists
and with what they're like,
and she was a very altruistic narcissist.
It was all about virtue signaling about,
you know, how I help people and how I give to this charity
and how I do all these wonderful, she's so good at it.
I ended up, so two of the people who worked with her
for about 15 years quit about four months
after I went no contact.
And that was such a blast.
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
What would you say?
I said, two of the people who were working with her
for 15 years, who loved her, who were her best friends,
quit about four months after I went no contact.
And that was huge because I talked to both of them
because I knew them well.
They knew everything that had happened to me.
And they were the first people who could corroborate
my story about what she was really like
because everyone else thought she was just
the most amazing person in the world.
So that was helpful.
Then I met a woman who had been working with Jamie
about 10 years ago for a number of years.
And I got in touch with her and we started talking.
And I said, you know, I'm in this confusion.
Is she really just a hurt person
because she's been through all this abuse
and she just hurts people
because she doesn't really understand how to manage it?
Or is she a sociopathic narcissist
who is really trying to just take people down?
And she's a really strong Christian too.
She actually like counsels the pastoral staff
at Bethel Church in California.
So she said, you know, I choose my words very carefully,
but I definitely would say she's a sociopathic narcissist.
And she said, I would put her on the same level
as Jim Jones, who was the Jonestown, you know, that story.
And so I was like, well, at least I got taken
by one of the best.
It wasn't like just some regular old Joe.
She's so, so good at what she does.
Like I can see why I was taken
and I can see why God allowed it.
I can see that he, you know, wanted me maybe to know.
And I mean, you can correct me
if I'm saying anything that's incorrect,
but I feel like he allowed it
because he was gonna use it in my life to help other people.
He was using it in my life to help me get to where I am now.
He was using it, I think, to be in a place
where I can help others and comfort them
with the experiences they're going through.
Because a lot of my clients experience
narcissistic relationships.
And he got me to a point of transformation.
Like I don't know if it was more about me stepping into it
or more about, you know, what it was,
but, and again, please feel free
if I'm saying anything that doesn't sound aligned.
Part of my problem is that I'm still stuck partially
at times in the cult personality.
So they're very new age, but they base it on the Bible.
They're all Christians, but they're,
it's a new age program, but it's all based on Christianity
and all the people that run it are Christians.
When you talk about some of the things like, you know,
being in resistance or being in a place of choice,
or, you know, just choosing into it or shifting into it,
that's all language that they used in the cult.
But it was-
I can't believe that you haven't been triggered
in hearing all of me, hearing that terminology.
Well, it's actually been really helpful.
And I wanted to tell you about this
because especially when you talked about
how God brought you into this area of new age
to understand it more, I was really thankful for that.
I almost started to cry when you said that
because I was like, it just feels so aligned for me
because I needed somebody in my life
who understood how the Bible supported these beliefs
so that I could stand on the truth
of what I was taught in the cult,
but be able to root it in the Bible,
which is where it's from anyway,
but they've twisted it so much
into this form of teaching that is,
like, honestly, I can't tell you how,
I mean, when you talk about
when you were just at the bottom of the pit
and it was like you were at the lowest point in your life,
that's pretty much where I was that summer.
It was bad, especially because I didn't know who I was.
And I even had a conversation with her
about a year after for almost two hours.
Yeah, I am, because we were really close.
It wasn't all bad.
There was a lot of good and I missed her.
I missed our friendship.
I actually, I was delusional in thinking this,
but I thought maybe she doesn't even know
what she's doing to people.
And this was before I had the conversation
with the woman about the sociopathic narcissist thing.
So I talked to her for almost two hours
and I shared my experience.
I shared what I'd gone through.
I shared what I felt had happened.
And because I had so much awareness at this point,
I totally saw the narcissism.
I saw the gaslighting.
I saw it all clearly at that point.
So that was really helpful.
And then it took me,
I would say after the first time I went no contact,
it took me about a year and a half to really end it.
That's how much I went back
and that's how bad the trauma bond was.
And I finally just made a choice.
And I said, if I have her in my life,
I want her to get healthy.
I want her to see what she's doing
and change, but she's not willing.
She's not able to see it.
She's not willing to change.
She'd rather make me out to be,
because I was the bad person.
I was crazy.
I was all of these awful things she would spread about me.
Almost every single person who I met in that group
that I was friends with dropped me.
Right when she knew that I wasn't coming back
and I was done.
That smear campaign was pretty awesome.
And even Julia, the girl who initially got me in,
one day just ended our friendship.
And she was one of the closest people in my life ever
for four years.
And one day out of the blue, just like that, she was done.
And it was about a month and a half
after I had the conversation with Jamie.
And so, and I'd shared a lot of this stuff with Julia,
but she made a choice and that's fine.
It was hard for a few months, for sure.
I struggled for a few months.
I lost a couple other friends as well,
but they've come back.
They have since reconnected with me
and we're like closer than ever now.
But it was all collateral damage from the group.
And I was sad at first,
cause I thought, oh my gosh,
I've lost all these great people,
but the right ones have come back
and I'm thankful for them.
And maybe that was my time with Julia and that was it,
but that was tough.
That was really tough.
And so my experience with losing friends
kind of all surrounds the cult
and almost everyone who was involved in some way.
So when you talk about the new age stuff
and understanding that they're all,
all these belief systems are coming from the Bible,
I would say about,
if it was about six months ago to a year ago,
I probably would have been triggered.
I was still having a really hard time.
She triggers me more than anything.
I don't know if I could ever be in the same room
as her again.
She's that,
well, some people call her evil.
I don't know what to call her,
but she's got,
I just choose not to ever be in that space with her.
And so, I kind of wonder,
in your experience, in your wisdom,
kind of what you thought maybe God was doing,
what you think about everything I've shared,
even some of the language I used around,
if he allowed it for a reason
and just that the whole new age concept based on the Bible,
and you've talked a lot about that.
So it's giving me more clarity, which is good.
A lot of my understanding at the time
was really about knowledge of really trying
to understand what happened to me
because I couldn't shift into the spirit at that point.
I didn't understand enough to do that.
I didn't understand my identity in him.
I didn't understand my worth and value at all.
So I couldn't do that.
But I thought if I can understand what happened to me,
it'll give me enough clarity to move forward a few steps
and then a few more steps and a few more steps.
And eventually, and it took me about two years
to get to where I am now.
So that was summer 2018.
So it's been a pretty crazy ride.
And I have no unforgiveness.
I'm good with the whole thing.
And I also, I think at times it'll come up for me,
especially now that I'm in the rest intensive
and you're talking about a lot of the same things.
And I wonder if God, I always think in bigger picture
and I'm like, did he have Ashley go into that realm
of new age just because he knew one day
he was gonna deliver?
her into my life and that she was going to understand what I've been through and for many
other reasons too I'm sure he allowed you to go through that but I'm like for me it was such a
cool connection because I thought it's just it's just that possible that he knew that I was going
to walk into your life and need somebody who understood that among all the other things he
was doing right yeah yeah so well I you know you were talking about you know if God allows
those kinds of things well before I say into all that I'm just acknowledge you know what it is that
you went through and I'm so sorry I'm sorry for you know how you were beset against how you were
come against because you obviously didn't there's nothing about you and you know all of this I'm
just so I'm not telling you something you don't know I am wanting to offer you hearing it from
yet someone else I'm sure that you've had a lot of people talking to your life and I'm sure you
know the Lord talks in your own spirit and sorry there's somebody I'm sorry there there's somebody
standing in our front yard and I don't know who they are do you want to go check it out
oh oh shoot okay I hope that they're not gonna ring the doorbell
Dawson so I just need that
okay um I think everything is okay at they might be they haven't rang the doorbell I was concerned
that Dawson might start barking uh it's a bunch of people just one second
I'm gonna go to the bathroom while you're checking that out okay thank you
so
okay
so
you
And there was a two men standing on the sidewalk in our front yard stopping talking to each other,
hands on their hips, pointing to the house like, what are you doing?
So apparently they just, there had been a lot of there, there had been a hailstorm come through
here a while back. And as they they work for a roofing company. So they're going door to door,
seeing if he wants to hire them, you know, that makes me feel better. What are they doing?
So I apologize about that. Anyway, so I just wanted to obviously be yet someone else to
acknowledge the fact that that and just speak into the world and speak into in the heavenlies
that whatever that what happened and was brought against you was witchcraft. It was manipulation
is very wrong. And, and it just has, it has no place, it has no place in you. And it and you
know, the name of the Lord Jesus that has no place in you to settle. So I'm so glad to settle down
and to stay. So I'm really glad that the Lord protected you and surrounded you by people with
people that could see what was going on that were list that loved you so much that they heard the
Lord's voice and they had the courage to to fight for you. So I know that that means an awful lot
to you and your relationship with him. And very glad that that he, you know, as his child, he
saved you out of that. And he just revealed himself to you. And it's amazing, because,
you know, like what you're saying about me, it's hard to believe that you've been through that,
because in listening to you talk that, you know, you just never know, because the Lord has redeemed
and restored, you know, so much and redeemed and restored who it is that you are in him. So
um, but as far as like, you know, the fact that he that he allows things and all of that,
you know, we do have, we do have free will to be able to choose things. And he,
and he can prompt our spirit and speak to our spirit, that and we can listen in such a way
that we can discern. Oh, he's saying he's warning me, he's telling me that there's something that
that I need to pay attention to or whatever. And sometimes we are, we're so young in certain areas,
that we cannot discern that what it is that's making us feel uncomfortable is God communicating
X to us. And we're just like, I don't know what's going on. What is it? Is it my own?
Is it my own resistance? Is this the Lord? Is this the Holy Spirit? You know, what's going on.
But the night, the wonderful thing is that the Lord, if we, if we appeal to him,
and we determine, Lord, I desire for you to be my protection and my provision, and I,
I, I acknowledge and come into agreement with the fact that you are,
that it can, then he obviously steps in because, you know, for us as his child,
in order to protect and provide for us when we don't realize that we're being covered.
We don't realize that we're, that a covering is being provided for us so that he can, he can
provide for us in the middle of a situation that we are too brainwashed to know that we're in.
Like, and for instance, I've known that, I mean, there was a time where I told the Lord,
okay, Lord, no matter what it is that I do, I think I was in college and I exactly remember,
I was, I remember where I was on the sidewalk when I prayed this prayer. I told the Lord,
okay, Lord, no matter the choice, and at this time, I couldn't ever imagine making this type
of a choice. It was like, I was talking about another person, but it sounded like a godly
thing to pray. And I was very, I was very, very serious and very intentional about it.
And I just told the Lord, Lord, no matter, no matter if I beg you to let me go,
I am asking you now that never in my life, never let me go. Just totally, totally ignore my request,
totally ignore, no matter how hard I beg, no matter, you know, how hard I petition you,
I'm asking you to never let me go. Well, it never, ever occurred to me that I would actually
ever beg, but the Lord,
Lord knew that, so he put it on my heart to pray for and to pray in anticipation of, for
lack of a better phrase, my future self, so that when I went through my really deep, dark
times with the Lord, I begged him to let me go, which is something I still can't believe
that I did, but I really did.
I begged him to take his hand off of me, because it was just torment, but because I believed
that I had prayed that prayer, I had stood in the gap for myself, I'd stood in the gap
for my future self in anticipation, and the Lord honored that, and he provided me the
protection and provision that I needed, so my point is that even when we're in the middle
of a situation in which we're not acknowledging or coming into agreement with the fact that
we are who God says that we are, and Lord, I'm saying that I agree that you provide for
and protect me, and I'm going to entrust, and I'm going to choose that you are going
to provide my results, even if in the moment we are not believing that and in agreement
with it, if we have prior, and I believe even if we do in the future, it comes back and
it protects us, which I think is really wild, because in the Lord, there's no past or future,
there's just now.
God just exists in this place outside of time where everything is just now, which is how
Jesus Christ was able to be crucified in what, 30 BC, I believe, or 30 BC, 30 AD, I believe,
is that right?
Or no, he was born in 4 AD, so was that what, 37 AD, I don't remember, whatever that was.
It says that the land before the beginning of the world, because even though we're on
a linear timeline here in the world, God exists outside of time, and it's just always now.
I believe that we and others can stand in the gap for us and call down, because we agree
with God that he's our provision or protection, and that we are going to choose that he provides
us the results in our lives, that it protects us in other times in which we've existed,
either in the past or in the future.
So anyway, when you were talking about, you were just wondering my thoughts on what does
God allow us to be in those types of situations?
What really is going on?
Is it to teach us a lesson?
Is it to whatever?
I just wanted to mention that God doesn't ever leave us in a place of pain or evil in
which we are unprotected, because even if we're brainwashed at the moment and we're
not coming into agreement, just because we're not coming to agreement in the moment doesn't
mean that God's not going to come through providing for and protecting us, just because
we say in the moment, well, God, I don't believe that you do that kind of thing.
We can have the type of relationship with him where we've called on him as our father,
either in the past or in the future, where he's very aware of deep down the desires of
our heart and how it is that we view him, and he accounts that to us as righteousness.
Abraham's faith was accounted to him as righteousness, and he will act on that.
He will act on what it is that our heart truly desires, even if we ourselves can't recognize
it in that season.
So I believe that that was what was providing for and protecting you during that time.
And he's a very, very good father, and he's not going to stand by and watch us destroy
ourselves.
Even when Israel said that they didn't want to accept God's covenant of sonship, they
said, just tell us what to do, and we'll do it.
And God, as a very good God, said, okay, well, if you don't want to abide in me according
to the tree of life and operate according to relationship, if you do not have law, then
you are going to be exposed.
You're going to be unprotected and unprovided for, and I don't desire that for you.
So I will tell you, I will give you the weapons.
that you need in order to provide for and protect yourself.
And that is my way in which I'm providing for
and protecting you.
So even though, even though we can choose to operate
according to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
our God is still over us protecting and providing for us.
Even if we're relying on ourselves for the results,
he still doesn't send us out into the world abandoned.
He never abandons us even if we don't,
even if we believe that he does.
And even if we reject him,
even if we're in rebellion against him,
he never abandons us ever.
Anyway, that's a bit of a deeper subject,
but those are just some of the things
that I was thinking about as far as like him allowing
that, yeah, he does not violate our free will
and we can choose.
But when you were in the situation,
you weren't abandoned and you were still being looked after
and looked over so that you could not be completely
destroyed because you're his.
Right. Anyway.
And I feel like that.
I feel like, it almost feels like the story of Job, right?
When God was like allowing the enemy
to do what he was gonna do, but he was always there.
God was always there, right?
And I feel like in a sense,
maybe what you said about the desires of your heart,
like the desire of my heart was to be freed from my past,
to be healed, to transform, to overcome.
And is it possible that he used that situation knowing
that he was there the whole time,
but he allowed the enemy or how the enemy was working
through this woman to affect me in a way
that would cause me, because he knew that eventually
I was going to heal and transform and overcome,
but that it was like I needed to almost go to the depths
of all that awfulness in order to overcome.
And I continued to trust him.
I continued to look to him.
There was never a time when I did not believe.
The only reason I got out was because of him
and because of the godly people around me
who I had about 10 women on speed dial
for probably about five months
that I would just reach out to when I was really in it.
And I was like, I just need you to pray.
I just need encouragement.
Can you send me a verse?
Can we talk, whatever?
And I had a really great group of people who were praying
and just like fighting for me to be out of this.
Because when you're in a cult,
it's hard to not want to go back,
even when you know it's not good.
So I was curious about your thought about that,
about the Job thing and about maybe if he knew
and he allowed the enemy to come along
and do what he was gonna do with me,
knowing God was gonna redeem it and bring good out of it.
Is that possible?
I guess I'm still a little unsure of your question.
You mean, do you believe that Satan went to him and asked?
No, but like, okay, so God can,
if he wanted to change that situation for me,
he could have woken me up sooner
and made me realize it was a cult
within the first month of being in it.
But he waited till I was in it for a year and a half
and I was really in the depths of despair
and I had completely had my identity torn away from me.
Because what she was doing is she was trying to strip me
of who I was and remake me into who she wanted me to be.
One of the counselors that I saw said,
was like she was ingesting you and rebirthing you
into the woman she wanted you to be,
which was basically a clone of her,
which is what I was turning into.
I mean, we already looked alike,
but I was turning into her, which was not good.
I thought it was good, it wasn't good.
So I'm like, did God, did he allow that
knowing what he was gonna bring in the end,
knowing the good he was gonna bring in my life now,
did he allow me to go through that
because he knew the transformation that was gonna happen?
Well, so what it is that God does in our lives,
you know, that we see through all of it,
we see, you know, the fact that we've gone through pain
and we've gone through suffering
and we come up the other side,
is they are ways in which we are overcoming.
So it's not just like,
oh, well, we just learn a lesson about God
or we learn a lesson about ourselves and we transform.
Because if we were perfectly,
because think of it this way,
if we were born, you know, perfect,
and we were, and God only creates good things,
that to believe that we needed to,
How would you put that, that we needed to go through something in order to transform and become something different. And this may not be what you're saying. This is just an idea that came to mind. So the you just
If this doesn't answer your question, just as a freebie and that it's like, but it's it's believing that we were that we were
That we were created as something that wasn't good enough and needed to transform into something else and go through this process.
And so it's, I believe that it's important for us to understand that what it is that we're going through is we're overcoming. We are beginning to see creation, including our souls in our
And and our bodies are subject to frustration, you know, after the fall of the fall of Adam creation was subject to frustration, including our own our own souls. In fact, sorry, let me get my Bible really quick. Just one sec. Because I want to read something to you.
Okay, and so that you can know
Where I am. We're looking at Romans eight. This is a great house. Are you very familiar with it.
I love Romans eight. Yeah.
Yeah, it's so good. Specifically, when we look from
I mean, oh my gosh, we can talk about all of it. So I'm just trying to
Point and the part that I'm talking about right now.
So you don't order the
But there's the
Medicine is definitely
For every
We have an ovation.
And
Okay, if I'm doing a service.
Okay. Okay, so looking, I believe.
In
I'm starting in verse 18 so I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
So, okay. So, well, okay, let's back up just a little bit because it's talking about the glory that will be revealed in us because it's referencing something it just talked about. So in restarting in
Verse, I guess.
15 for you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received a spirit of sonship and by him would cry all the father.
The spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now we're children, then we're heirs, heirs of God and coerce with Christ. And here's the point.
If indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also sharing his glory. So talking about the fact that the glory that it is that we
That will be revealed in us is is it isn't is the glory of Christ that will that will be sharing
So I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. It's the same glory that we share with Christ.
The creation waits in eager anticipation for the sons of God to be revealed for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it
In hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God, so
We keep talking about the fact that God wants to move us into greater and greater measures of rest and freedom. In other words, we already have that rest and freedom. We already are abiding in that place.
We're just not in agreement with the Lord that we are. And if we're not in agreement with the Lord that we are, then we're not manifesting and into the earth.
So it means that if our soul is not agreeing with our spirit that we
That we are, who God says that we are, that we are in freedom that we're in rest, then our soul and our body that are that our creation.
Then, like it talks about here in moments, their creation, then it's still, it's still subject to frustration and is not manifesting the freedom that it is that God says that we have
Just like the rest of creation like birds and trees and animals. And so we're for the even ourselves what we're subjected to frustration.
And then the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay. So currently it's it's enslaved and it's everything is going according to the law of entropy.
And as, as a physical example, but in other words, everything is leading to death because anything that is operating according to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, it feels that
that it's been abandoned by God and it's on its own,
very vigilant, trying to protect and provide for itself,
which is why nature is in chaos.
Oops, oh, that's weird.
So hopefully, my phone's not gonna die.
If it starts to get a little bit lower than that,
I'm gonna have to move it and plug it in.
Anyway, so it says that what we're doing when we are,
when we're manifesting the freedom that we are
in the spirit, when we manifest that into the soul
and into the body, we then push it out,
give creation the same freedom that we have.
That's what it is that we're doing.
That is what, that's what's going on
when we go through all of this suffering
and we go through what we refer to as a transformation.
We already are everything.
We don't have to become anything.
We already are it.
We're just coming into agreement with it.
And as we come into agreement with it,
it appears in our soul and our body
like it's being transformed.
And really what that means is we're just manifesting
who it is that we really are.
That's what the overcoming is.
It is overcoming the frustration
that it has been subjected to because we're telling it,
no, you're gonna come into agreement with the truth
and the truth says that you're free.
So manifest that freedom.
And if we manifest the freedom in our own lives
by overcoming, we finally can have freedom
that we can then in turn give to frustration,
give to creation and release it from frustration as well.
So things like trees, grass, animals, et cetera,
they're currently subject to frustration
in such a degree that we don't even know
what they would look like
if they weren't subject to frustration.
There is a glory that all of them have
that in the way that God originally intended them to operate
that we have never seen.
We're not used to seeing what does a tree look like
when it's not subject to frustration?
What does a tree look like that is perfectly,
that is glorious as God originally intended it to look?
We don't know, we haven't seen it,
but before we can give it to the tree,
we have to manifest it in our own lives.
So we're overcoming.
That is the purpose and the point
of what it is that we're doing.
And so it talks, it mentions this in 22,
it says, or in the next few verses,
it says, we know that the whole creation's been groaning
as in the pains of childbirth to the present time.
Not only so, but we ourselves,
so this is where it's referencing the fact
that even we ourselves have been subjected to,
as creation subjected to frustration,
and we are waiting for the manifestation
of the sons of God,
because remember, identity is in the spirit.
We're waiting for who it is that we are in the spirit
to be manifested.
So not only, but we ourselves
who have the first fruits of the spirit
grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons.
So it says that creation is groaning
in anticipation of the manifestation of the sons of God.
It even says we ourselves are groaning
in anticipation of our adoption as sons.
And then it says, comma,
and then it explains what the adoption of sons is,
which is the redemption of our bodies.
And it says, for in this hope, we were saved.
That is why we were saved.
When we were saved, and this is a really big deal.
This is a really, really, really big deal.
Even non-Christians, their spirits are united with Christ,
because everyone was reunited with Christ
when he died on the cross.
The difference between Christians and non-Christians,
so to speak, if we wanna label each other like that,
is those who have done what Jesus talks about in scripture
and believed on Jesus.
In other words, we have acknowledged
and come into agreement with the fact
that we're one with Christ.
The non-Christians have not yet come into agreement
that they're one with Christ already,
and that he is the only way that they can come to the Father.
Because if they don't agree that they're one with him,
that's obviously the only way
that we can come to the Father.
And so, therefore, they can't come to the Father
if they don't agree that they're one with him,
and that it's through him
that it provides us reconciliation.
That's what the difference is
between Christians and non-Christians.
So the whole point of salvation, if we already have it,
if we're already one with God,
what on earth do we think that salvation is?
It says that salvation is for the redemption of our bodies.
It is in order to fondle God.
have the opportunity to finally, when we come into agreement with the fact that
Jesus is the only way, I'm united with him, I'm one with him, my spirit is one
with him, my spirit is perfect, I'm finally coming into agreement with God
that all of that is true. Once we do that, we can then begin to manifest who it is
that we are in spirit, because we acknowledge who we are in spirit,
manifest it down into our soul and down into our bodies to redeem our bodies
back to release it and to free it from from the fact that it's currently
subject to frustration. Once we do that, we now have something we cannot give to
creation. We can give them the same freedom that we have, but we can't give
creation until we have freedom. That's what Romans 8 is talking about. And so I
just mentioned that because you, you know, you're talking about, well, what
is it, you know, especially like related to Job and all of that, what is the
suffering, what is the transformation, why does God, why does God allow, you
weren't really necessarily asked, I was asking why God allowed it, but I'm just
mentioning, you know, why does God allow it, what is this whole thing about? It is
us overcoming, but the fact, kind of what I mentioned in the spiritual work,
spiritual warfare lie, nothing is a threat to us. The only problem is we
think it's a threat because we believe that we're sold. So the fact that we are
in those situations, you know, in a, that is someone believes that they're, that
they're in a cult, someone believes and is brainwashed and and believes
according to whatever the cult says and all of that stuff and, you know, loses
their sense of identity and self, etc. That actually can't touch who it is that
we are. It's touching who it is that we apparently believe that we are. And
that's what we were here, what we're doing here on this earth, is we're
overcoming in our soul and in our body through these experiences in order to, in
order to bring, in order to work out our salvation, which is the manifestation of
who it is that we really are, so that our soul and our body look like who it is
that we really are. And then we have something to give to creation. So that's
what all of this is. That's what all this pain is. That's what all of the
suffering is or what it is that Job went through, what it is that you went through.
It's our process of overcoming in our various ways. And each of us, and there's
a, there's a death in overcoming, and each of us dies and overcomes for the rest of
the body of Christ. So you have overcome in areas and died in areas that I might
live. And I have overcome and died in areas that you might live. Because whoever
receives a profit, receives a profit's reward. So if we honor what it is that
each of us has overcome in the Lord, we get to receive the benefit of what
someone else died to give us. Each of us is called to be Jesus for the rest of
the body of Christ. And so that's what we're doing. We're overcoming in our own
little worlds, so to speak. We all have our own area of life and
experience and existence in which we're overcoming. So that collectively, as an
entire body of Christ, from the time of Adam all the way to the last person
that's ever born, that's ever created, all of us, you know, dead, alive, dead matter,
we're all one body of Christ. That all collectively we will have overcome
together and manifested the invisible into the visible and we're finally
released all of creation from frustration. But we have to start with
ourselves first. So anyway, that was a lot. No, no, that's good. So part of
the, part of it was like the sanctification and the, you know, the
process of overcoming some of those things and putting them to death and now
kind of being reborn in this way where I am more in the Spirit than I have been
in my life. I guess like I wonder if God knew that, which he probably did, but if
he knew that I needed that series of events or I knew he knew that my process
needed to look like that for whatever reason. I kind of wonder about that. If he
knew that it was needed? Well, because I wasn't in Christ, because I
didn't know my identity, I didn't know my worth and value, I didn't love myself for
who he created me to be. I wonder if he allowed that situation to strip me down
to almost nothing so that I was at this place where I needed to rebuild my
identity on that firm foundation of who he is.
so that I would eventually understand, I would eventually overcome and be in the Spirit more,
but it was a process that He needed to take me through. Is that possible?
God uses processes, absolutely, for us to go through. An example of that is how we exercise
and build muscle. We're torn down in order to build back up, but the tearing down is the removal
of negative things. In other words, the things that aren't us. So it's not us ourselves that's
being removed. They're lies that we believed about ourselves, whether they were old roots of ours,
or they were being added to. Regardless, God's like, no, no, no, those things aren't you,
so those things need to be removed. And when we go through that fiery furnace,
all of the lies, in other words, all of that dross comes to the surface, it becomes visible,
and there's that painful process of going through the fire in order to reveal the things,
in order to make evident and obvious the things that are not of us.
Well, it's just to remove something that's not us.
Well, and I think here's where I struggle a little bit, because
she would have said that's what she was doing with me. She was breaking me down and stripping
those things away, and chipping away, and revealing the, she would say, the David.
We're chipping away at the chunk of marble that's you, and we're going to reveal the David.
Michelangelo reference.
And she, so it was always about, I'm breaking you down only because this is what you need to
be built up the right way. So when you talk about that, I'm like, was she right? Was what she did
right? Was it okay? Because that was her purpose, and was I the one who was like, this is wrong in
my spirit? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, no, no. She's not right. It was absolutely 100% of use.
No, no question. But the whole thing, when I say tearing, when I say tearing down,
that's probably a really bad way to express it. It's removal of things. And it is true that
sometimes, like for instance, you read about the potter with the clay in Isaiah, where it says that
sometimes, you know, he has to like start all over, because there's just too much to have to like,
to pick out and to change. It's just kind of like, okay, let's just melt the whole thing down,
even though I'm mixing metaphors now. Now I'm talking about like, you know, like metal, but
it was just melt the whole thing down, bring up the dross, remove the dross, and then now reshape
and rebuild the thing. But what she was doing is she was, and Satan's really good at this, and it,
so it's the same thing with the New Age stuff that they were teaching. These are principles
that God created, but that what it is that they actually mean has been corrupted. And then, and
then so they use all the right terminology. For instance, they use the word Jesus. Did it mean
that the things that they were speaking were actually of Jesus and were actually a reflection
of his character and, you know, and his love? Absolutely not. So they can use all of the right
terminology because, but how they use it and how they operate, just because they say all the right
things does not mean that what it is that they're doing, that they've attached an accurate term
to mean, does not mean that that was correct. So what she was doing was not tearing down.
She was destroying. At the very end, she was attacking, she was destroying, it was manipulative,
it was witchcraft. And one of the reasons why it's so difficult to decipher and
understand what's going on in situations like that is because, just because something looks
and sounds like something good and sounds like the Bible and all of that, doesn't mean that it
actually, doesn't mean that it actually is. And we all know that, sorry, I think that I just,
the way that I worded that probably just sounded more confusing than clarifying. Well, you know,
can I, I'm going to, I'm going to interrupt you for a sec because I really want to hear
what you have to say and I get to go and pick up my daughter. Oh yeah, yeah. But I want to,
can we, is it possible just to like pick up this conversation just for a few more minutes to finish
off this, like at another time? Is that possible? Yeah, yeah. Just put another thing on my calendar.
I see what open time that I have today. I don't know if I have any, because I'm about to go into
three, into a three day, three full day time.
see if I mean a conference maybe I have some time like I don't know like I don't
know when I'd have time but anyway and see if you see any time open on my
calendar if not well can I I don't know if you're busy this evening but could I
text you like later this evening and see if you're you've got like an extra five
minutes or so yeah yeah let's do that yeah let's do that yeah yeah that'll be
the easiest because I definitely want to hear what you have to say about this
because this this is super important to me because this is one area where it's
it's a little tricky so yes I would love to know your thoughts and I'll text you
um I don't know what you're doing I'm in the eastern time zone so I'll be it
would be about eight eight thirty my time okay are you central or what are you
essential yes are you are you at 348 right now is that your time yes it is
yeah okay so it would be about yeah about seven o'clock your time seven
seven-thirty your time I can text you between then and see if you're available
or even a little later yeah yeah you can you're welcome to do that and check I'm
not sure where I'm gonna be or what I'm gonna be doing them but you're welcome
to check and then if I can and then we can just hop on really quick and if in
the meantime if you want to jump on Marco Polo and like I don't know like
if you feel like I'm not really nailing it on the head exactly or it seemed to
be heading in the direction that you're asking maybe that you can I don't know
think of another way to phrase it or clarify to let me know you're totally
you're you're in the right direction I promise you I just I just know that I'm
on a time limit and I want you have to say so if you so I thought if you have
like five more minutes I probably get all your thought but no you're you're on
the right track so I just want to definitely want to hear what else unless
you want to just shoot me a Marco Polo and tell me the rest of what you're
thinking on there or I can text you later okay all right that sounds good
which one oh I will I'll do Marco Polo why don't I do that and then and then if
and you know we can you can see if that answers question that's beautiful thank
you okay I really enjoyed our talk and sorry I'm rushing off no worries yes all
right well we'll talk soon bye okay bye