Thank you.
Okay.
Hey there.
Hello.
How are you?
Good. How are you?
Doing good. Your curly hair is cute.
Like very beachy.
Yes. It's my beach waves.
How are you?
Good.
How are you?
Good.
How are you?
Good.
How are you?
I'm doing good.
I'm doing really good.
How was your weekend?
Tell me about your conference.
It was so good.
It's the second time I've done it.
I've done bits of it.
It was a lot of fun.
It was three days.
Six sessions each day.
That's a total of 18 sessions.
At night,
the last day,
we had a healing service in which we declared healing over
ourselves and other people.
It was good.
That's interesting.
I was praying for you a lot.
I was really praying for you last night.
I was like,
I don't know what's going on.
I almost texted you and said,
I'm just praying for you.
It doesn't matter if I text her or not.
I'll just pray.
Pardon?
I'm so glad you thought of me.
Thank you.
I was thinking about how you were doing in the conference and what
you were learning.
One thing that came to my mind is,
I don't know what it is you're still healing from.
I don't know if there's anything going on inside that you're still
healing from.
I was like, God, whatever it is,
give her a breakthrough and give her healing in whatever area it is.
You know what it is.
I don't.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
It was very good.
Like I said,
I had done it back in February,
but I really wanted to do it live.
Of course,
I had to go to the church and all of that,
but it wasn't like the full training.
And anyway,
and I'd asked the Lord.
For.
I'd asked the Lord for some.
How would I word that?
To talk to me.
Oh, to confirm.
Some things to me.
And, um,
cause basically I was telling him, okay, Lord, you know, obviously I, um,
I was, I was feeling very,
I was feeling a lot of pressure in particular situation in a particular
situation.
And I was asking Lord, okay, Lord, you know,
you say that you provide for him, protect me.
And, and so therefore, you know, I, I am standing on that word and I'm,
and I believe that that is your character and I'm choosing it.
Um,
So, but Lord, what I want to know is you're basically teaching me how to
walk.
Like, like a, like a toddler, you know, teach me how to walk.
So I understand Lord, if I'm tottering,
but what I'm wanting to check,
what I'm asking you to confirm for me is,
am I tottering on my legs or am I,
am I doing something?
Am I like tottering?
Like on my hands,
am I trying to walk on my hands or am I trying to,
or am I thinking I'm walking and I'm army crawling?
I mean like, in other words, like, am I like doing this right?
You know,
am I like moving in my learning in the,
in a very positive progression and I was like, that's,
that's all that I need to affirm Lord.
Uh, I, um, you know,
cause I know that if you say that you provide for him,
protect me that you do,
I don't have to see proof and in order to choose it,
I just need to know that, you know, that I am, uh, you know,
that, that I really am learning to walk on my legs,
the way that you're supposed to walk.
And, uh, and he confirmed it four times.
I mean, they're not, they were not small by the way,
for very big, some of them life-changing,
you know, affirmations.
I was so excited.
One of them was last night, a friend of mine had had an encounter and a dream and had told
me and so she wanted to get together to tell me about it and she's like, okay, Ashley,
I don't really know what this means and then of course she told me, I was like, well, I
do.
It means that the Lord's saying, yes, Ashley, you are learning to walk on your legs, so
you are fine.
I was like, good, okay, and then today there was some, God released, God showed me his
provision and protection, in other words, his word, how it manifested on the earth.
So I actually got to see the manifestation on the earth as of this morning and so I just
stayed, no matter what it looks like, this is what God says, this is what God says, this
is what God says, I just need to know, Lord, am I walking, am I actually learning to walk
and he confirmed it to me four times and then this morning, he's like, okay, now that we
went through that, now I'll show you the manifestation, so anyway, yeah, it was very good.
How did it manifest this morning?
Well, it just manifested into the physical, like something that I couldn't see coming
through actually came through and it came through in a bigger way than I had been expecting.
So then, I don't know, it's hard to describe, but anyway, I was very, very excited about
it.
I was like, okay, Lord, because he is, and that was another thing that I kept telling
God, you're not just a God of like good enough or close enough, but I kept telling him, no,
Lord, I'm choosing that you're a God of abundance because that's who it is that you say that
you are.
So I'm saying that when you come through in provision, protection, identity, love, comfort,
you know, whatever, that it's an abundance and one of the things that I was writing down
this weekend was, excuse me, I was reminded of ways in which God comes through in abundance
in scripture, like for instance, the feeding of the 5,000 and the feeding of the 4,000,
there was stuff left over.
So we often think that, oh, you know, when God wants to provide, he doesn't want to waste
anything.
He doesn't want us to waste anything.
So he's going to be very, very exact and no, my goodness, there were 12 baskets left over
after the 5,000 and I don't remember how many were left over after the 4,000, but,
you know, there was that and then there was something else.
It was Abraham, something related to Abraham that I thought, oh my word, that was abundance.
It wasn't just good enough.
I can't remember what that story was.
So I was again claiming, okay, Lord, I believe that I have been believing you for just enough,
but you provide and protect and your character comes through with the last minute and, you
know, and it comes through in the exact way that the situation needs to be taken care
of, you know, or what you would think of in worldly terms, situation to be taken care
of.
I was like, no, I'm sorry, Lord, you know, I repent of limiting you to that and believing
that that is, that you're restricted like that.
So I choose that, to take you at your word, you're a God of abundance with lots left over.
Oh, that's what it was.
I remembered it wasn't Abraham.
It was, I think there was a story about Abraham that reminded me of this, but it was actually
when God provided manna and quail in the wilderness, in fact, there was so much manna and so much
quail that he told them, don't collect more than you need because there was more than
they needed.
But he was just like, ah, you know, I can, I am the cattle on a thousand hills, so here
you go, you want food, but just get what you want, which is up to you, not up to me, get
whatever you want, and then once you're done, I'll have it all go away, I'll have the rest
of it go away, and then I'll come tomorrow.
So anyway, but yeah, so how are you doing?
That's awesome.
That's so cool to hear.
That's amazing.
I'm good.
I, yeah, I've had some things come up, which has been interesting because I feel like,
you know, last week I was really good for the most part at being in rest with my daughter
at home, just in general with everything, and then on yesterday, I actually, it was
I think Saturday, maybe it was yesterday, I hit a bit of a wall with it because a few
things happened.
I'm going to start to cry.
So
The first thing is, okay, so I told you my story about the cult, right?
Yes.
And I've been blessed because there's a girl,
there have been many people that I've been in contact with over time that have been really
helpful. There was a cult called NXIVM. I don't know if you ever heard of NXIVM.
That sounds familiar, but I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know it was a cult.
Yeah.
I don't know what it is and what it means. I just know the name.
It's been in the news a lot, and it's a personal development cult.
And my friend at one point had sent me this girl's podcast that she had done,
and I listened to it, and this girl, I was just amazed at how similar our stories were.
Who's the spokesperson for NXIVM? Maybe I know the name.
Keith Raniere.
Oh, that doesn't sound familiar. Okay.
But he's in prison now.
Oh, my.
It was like, he had a sex element to the cult too.
So this girl who did the podcast had actually been branded in the cult,
and she was speaking out about it. She'd now, at that point, left.
And so I listened to her podcast, and I was like, wow, this girl sounds so much like me.
So I ended up reaching out to her on Facebook, and she responded, and we communicated,
and then we got on the phone and talked a bunch of times, and she wrote a book.
So I also read her book.
Is she a believer out of curiosity?
She's not.
Oh, no.
No, unfortunately, because if she was, we'd have different conversations,
but we've had these conversations that have been so helpful.
And so I started writing a book about my experience, and I kept feeling the Lord saying
that I wasn't going in the right direction with it, because my idea around the book was
to kind of expose it for what it was, which is what this girl Sarah is doing.
She's exposing NXIVM, and she's exposed it from the time she realized what was really happening.
And she didn't even realize what was going on behind the scenes with all the sex stuff.
She just knew she'd been branded.
She was struggling with her experience.
And like I did, I kind of pulled back the curtain and saw some things weren't right,
and so did she.
So anyway, so we had all these great conversations.
We've stayed in touch.
I started writing this book.
I had an editor and things were going well, but I kept feeling the Lord like putting a pause on it,
and I didn't know why.
And then I figured maybe he wanted me to write a full book of my whole story
and not just make it about this group and exposing, not mentioning names.
It was going to be like a fictional account of a true story.
So I wasn't actually calling out the group I was in necessarily, but calling out groups like it.
So Sarah is an actress, and some of the people in this cult were actresses too.
There was this one girl from Smallville.
And yeah, I'm now wondering if, yes, yes, the blonde lady, right?
Yes.
Okay.
I, okay.
When you started talking, I thought, wait a minute.
If you said that there was a sexual component, I thought I did hear about this.
And I heard that they were like getting different people and trying to attract.
Okay.
I didn't hear much.
It was just enough because I don't really read that kind of thing.
I'm just like, okay, well let the devil do what he wants to do behind closed doors.
I don't want to know.
But it was enough where it was like in my face and like when I was scrolling through Facebook
and then I would hear names or whatever.
So, okay.
So it is the, it is the one I was thinking about.
Yeah.
This girl, Claire Brothman or something was her name.
And then Sarah Edmondson is my friend who I met through listening to her podcast and all that.
So anyway, she's been really great.
And I sent her my first like seven, eight chapters of the book.
And even she was like, she's like, it's good, but it's not pulling me in.
Like it's not dramatic enough at the beginning.
And the editor that I had was so awesome.
He's a strong Christian guy and I really liked him.
And he just, I just felt like I kept putting him off.
I kept postponing.
I kept just not being motivated to write.
And I think part of it was I don't like, it's hard for me to go there.
It's hard for me mentally and emotionally.
And even when I talked to you about it, I felt like I was triggered for four or five days after.
And then last night she had posted on Facebook about how she's on this new HBO mini series
about NXIVM and she's already spoken out about it and everything.
And, you know, they're in trouble and he's in prison and all that.
And I don't know if what was happening in my group was that dramatic.
I don't know if there was a sexual component or not.
I have heard rumors, but I don't know for sure.
And so I was working on it last night because all this stuff was coming up for me, like,
why am I not able to speak out?
Why am I not able to, you know, write this book?
Why is the Lord not…
allowing me to kind of fight for these groups not being in existence because they're so damaging
and I just felt like sad I think that maybe because he stopped me or that I feel like
something's on my heart that I don't know that this is what I should be doing and that I'm
trying to help people through my set free academy with the stuff that they're going through and
and that's going well I've got three clients and that's going well and it's relatively new
but I think I'm just struggling because I've been triggered this week and then I realized
my email inbox was pretty full and my computer was slowing down so I went and sort of organized them
by size so I could delete some of the biggest ones and there were all these emails from the
group and there were emails from Julia who I told you about who was my friend who walked away
and it just triggered me more so this the whole thing and I was having these dreams and
I don't know just like all this stuff was coming back
and this happens once in a while it doesn't happen very often anymore but
I still get the triggers sometimes and I know it's okay that I'm not completely past it I know
it's okay that I still get triggered I'm not hard on myself about that because it was really traumatic
so you know I know God has done a great thing in me since then and I believe that
but I was struggling with that I was struggling to be in rest around that and then kind of in
addition to that we had a group of people over well first we had we had a music and drama party
for our church like creative arts team on Friday night which I went to and my friend Carrie was
one of the ones who came she sings with me and she was one of the ones who came to the group and
knew it was a cult and went back and told my pastor she and I are super super close so
when we when we're together we're just like glue we're stuck to we're always talking and it's great
conversation yeah she's awesome and so we um so we sat together and we were talking and then the
bugs started coming out so we went and sat we were like hey we're leaving the party so then we left
and then we went and sat in her car for like an hour and talked and just she was telling me um
and I'm sorry you said this was last night this was um this was on Friday night okay and then when
we were talking about it she was telling me some of the because her experience of this group was
you know pretty dramatic as well like she came she came home from that week away at the advanced
leadership course and she couldn't go to work for two weeks she's a teacher and she had acute
stress syndrome and she had to go to therapy and she was just a mess she cried constantly for two
weeks what is acute stress syndrome I mean it's almost like PTSD but not as bad huh okay that was
one week being with this woman basically Jamie was the problem she was the one that my friends were
like they they prayed at one point I don't know if I told you this but the last day they were there
they were really scared because they realized what it was but they didn't know and I was still
involved and they were like how do we get Alana out how do we are we right we think we're right
but let's pray so they held hands and they prayed and they're like God give us a sign give us a word
give us something so we know what this really is and so at the same time they both got shivers going
up their arms and in their mind they both heard a word one of them heard counterfeit and the other
one heard false prophet did I tell you this part no no okay so they were just terrified and they
ended up sleeping in the same little cot that night together because it was the last night at
the ranch and the ranch is in the middle of nowhere and they were scared so the next morning um Carrie
and I were sitting together on the bus to go to the airport and Jamie came on the bus looking for me
because I had been in resistance to her that week because my friends were thinking it was this and
she knew what was going on and she was still like in that grooming phase with me and I was like
trying to break away from it and I was just in massive resistance to her at this point but I still
didn't know what was going on so she came on the bus in the morning at like 6 a.m looking for me
at least I thought she was looking for me and Carrie was sitting beside me praying like God
don't let her see me don't let her see us she was so scared and so for whatever reason we're sitting
literally behind the bus driver and she's at the front of the bus looking over the whole bus
and she does not see us and so she gets off the bus about
20 minutes later, she texts me and she's like, I didn't see you this morning.
I, you know, so then we knew, cause I was like, I think she's looking for me.
So we knew at that point.
And that's how she was.
She would just try to get in there a little bit when she knew.
And so I, and at that point, like I was, I had been so abused and, and I was so
down, torn down that I didn't even really know what to do.
Like, I honestly didn't know how to get rid of her.
Cause I didn't know who I was without her at that point.
Cause she had just been commanded my life at that point.
She became this pivotal figure in my life that was like, you can do
this and you can do that, but you are currently like, we talked about this,
this, and this, and in order to be this, you need to do this, this, and this.
And right now you're basically.
Like the garbage and you're going to be amazing, but we got
to figure that out together.
So anyway, I, um, so Carrie and I were talking a bit about that and her
experience of Jamie that morning was that she was gray.
She saw this gray film over her.
Like her skin was gray.
She saw these interesting things.
And then she was sharing about another experience recently with someone
else who was involved in this really.
Evil kind of situation who she also saw as gray.
And those are the only two times that ever happened.
And she doesn't understand why, like, we don't know why that was, but, um,
but in the, she sees things in the spirit that are, I guess, things
that I'm not able to see at this point.
So she, so what we talked about it, and then I was just the whole,
ever since our conversation, I know.
And it's not because of our, of anything you said it was because I.
Opened myself up to sharing it again, which I wanted to do with you.
Cause I knew this was an area where I needed to experience more rest, but
then yesterday we had a bunch of people over and I was pretty happy
but then I started feeling stressed.
And it just, I don't know.
I just wasn't at rest.
I wasn't at peace.
My daughter was just coming up to me constantly asking me for things.
And I was trying to visit with these people I haven't seen in months that
are at our house and we're hosting.
And I just, I don't know, like the whole day, I just felt really stressed
and a couple of things happened, which just brought me back down more.
And so all this was going on for me and I want to be in this place of rest
and I want to be in the spirit and I don't know, I don't really know
what's going on exactly and what's stopping me, but that's kind of
what's coming up for me today.
Yeah.
Well, it's something, you know, I want to encourage you in.
That this is, that this is obviously the, and you might already know this,
I just want to say it, that if this is normal progression is God, we come
to understand aspects of like what it means to move into rest and he gives us,
he allows us to see that, hey, look, you are moving in the right direction,
you know, and, and this is, and I am, you know, I am affirming to you that,
that, that I am here and that this is me.
This is my, this is my character.
This is, this is how, this is how I view you.
Yes.
I am that good.
I am that loving, you know, whatever.
And then, and so, so we can kind of like start to get a bit
of a start, a bit of a hold on it.
Then he like starts to move into the areas where it's like, okay, these
are the areas in which you were really, really captive, where
you believe that you're captive.
And he's like, I want us to move.
I want you to have freedom, you know, in those areas.
So I just wanted to give you encouragement, which you probably
already knew, but when you're in these situations and until I really,
really chose, until I really accepted.
That it was hard for me to be at rest and then, and then to find myself
triggered, especially in a very major way again, because it felt like, well,
it, I, um, it felt like I, um, uh, that what it is that I had experienced
prior to that was a fluke and that now I was the rubber is really meeting
the road here and it's proving that it's just not true, you know?
So I just wanted to say that you may not need that encouragement.
I did.
The Lord had to encourage me in that.
So I just wanted to say that it's, this is normal that, uh, that, you know, we
were in rest and then, and we're not in rest and, um, uh, and, and it gets to,
the Lord starts dealing with the really big things, the areas in which we're,
um, that we really do feel enslaved.
Um,
So as far as the, okay, well, but though, okay, so remind me,
because I was trying to get the connection between what you were
talking about feeling unrest because of the cult, and then
what happened yesterday. But you're just saying that there
were just a slew of things one right after the other. Like, I
don't remember when you said that the emails were, but you
said that that kind of started setting you off. And then, so
what happened on Friday, that, that with your friend, I think
I'm confusing timelines of what it is you were saying, and when
it happened. So what happened on Friday, when you were with your
friend, what part of the story that you told me?
I think it's just the whole week being involved with seeing kind
of seeing people again, seeing Carrie, who I haven't seen for
a while, and us having a conversation about it, and about
her seeing this other person in the same way, which makes me
again, believe that Jamie might have some evil inside her. I
don't know how to explain it, what's going on inside her. But
and then I was having some dreams. And then I saw the
emails from Julia and from the group that went back to when I
was involved in the group that I was deleting, and that was on
Friday. And then it just kind of I think it was a culmination of
everything. And yesterday, I realized I was so I was so not
at rest. And these people were here again. And I wanted to make
the day good. And they I was just constantly asking me
questions. And then I got upset with her. And like over over
upset over not not just a little bit like I was like, I was not I
don't know, I just I just was stressed. And then I sort of
took it out on her. And, and she was just being needy and wanting
love and wanting support. And I was in a space where I just felt
like I couldn't give it to her like I was when I was in the
group, and I couldn't give it to her. And so it just I think the
whole process of it has. Yeah, just left my. Yeah, it's just
everything mixed together.
So yeah, okay. Yeah, I just want to make sure that I understood
what you're saying. So I could talk to it. And I feel like I'm
going to go a bit backwards here. But we're going to start
here just because it's on my it's on my mind. And you're
talking about about being concerned that, you know, I felt
like I just didn't have what it is that she that she needed from
me, whatever. Remember that, that in rest, we always have
what it is that they need. We no longer have to worry that
there's that we know, we don't have to approach with this idea
that there's an agenda that we're trying to accomplish,
like, oh, they're coming to me with x need, I need to meet x
need. We and like, how do I do it? Let's pull together my
resources that I've done from experience, and how I've
interacted with her before in and in how I know that that
someone needs to needs to feel that they're loved or feel that
they're being paid attention to or whatever. If we just allow
ourselves to be you know, I understand you weren't in rest,
I'm just addressing it. Thank you. Because I think that if I
if I don't address it now, I'm going to forget. But in and that
is just the fact that if we if we just allow ourselves to be
in then and shift into that place, and we put on our own
oxygen mask first, we will naturally give them what it is
that they need. So, so in other words, it's very, we don't want
have to worry that Oh, am I in a space? Am I not in a space? Am
I? I'm very caught up with me right now. I'm like trying to
hang on and whatever. Yes, if we put on our own oxygen mask
first, and you can do it in a moment, you can shift into rest
in a moment. And the more that I do this, the faster the the the
easier it is for me to do in a moment when I'm not at rest and
something needs and something needs something for me, I can
shift into rest immediately, and then give it what it is that
they that they need. And I was in a situation not that long ago
with some children where I was I was encountering that where I
was, I was being threatened to not be at rest. And then and
then the children would come up to me and in my mind is
spinning with like, actually, they need they need you they
need something from you shift into rest. And then I just
interacted with them. I didn't think what is it that they need?
I shifted into rest and then I automatically did things and I
I didn't make a decision. I didn't have an agenda. I mean,
meaning like a conscious decision, I just operated and
they they got what it is that they needed, which was
attention. It was love. It was feeling valued.
all of that. Us are having all of these ideas and things to tell them about and ways to interact
with them. They calmed down and then they went away and played on their own. But our mom was,
you know, being really, really upset because she wasn't putting on her own oxygen mask. She was,
she was cutting herself off, trying to hit, trying to survive, blindly doing what she needed to do
to try to manage her children. And so they were constantly continuing to come after her. But when
they would come after me, I put on my own oxygen mask first, not realizing that that's what I was
doing, but I just thought I've got to be in rest. And then I started interacting with them and they
got what they needed and they were self-sufficient so they could start entertaining themselves
because they no longer just needed me. So anyway, the thing is that I just wanted to mention that
because it was the last thing you said. And I thought, well, I didn't want it to get lost
in the middle of everything else that we were going to talk about. But before I continue,
would you let me, would you excuse me for just a second to run to the restroom?
Yeah, for sure. I'm sorry. Just one moment. Yeah, no, it's all good.
Thank you.
I just dropped my water. I was trying to grab it and I knocked it on the floor.
All right. Okay, yeah, no problem. I was going to ask you, so when that mother that was with you,
she would have probably been in the position I was in where I felt like I wasn't at rest and I
didn't know how to be at rest in that moment because I had so many things going on and I was
triggered by a whole bunch of things and I just wasn't at my best. And I feel like when I'm at my
best, I can shift into rest really well. And I've been doing really well with it this week,
especially around her. And I've noticed a difference, but yesterday
was just like a culmination of everything. And I wasn't able, yeah. So I'm just kind of curious.
Yeah. No, I understand. Go ahead. Yeah. I was just saying like, what do you do in those
situations? I know I can choose it in an instant, but I was so bogged down with like
stress in the moment that I just didn't know how. Yeah. No, no, no. That's fine. Remember,
there is no condemnation. I was just talking about a principle and wanted to make sure that
I'd address that principle at some point, just so that you could know that things are,
that that's how it works. And so therefore it's possible, but no, I completely understand that
you are where, that you were where you were because you had not under, you had been struggling
to shift into rest in those other areas. And therefore you were worn down. And when we're
worn down something that we're able to do, usually, you know, all of a sudden we were
struggling to be able to do because we're, we're something that's usually easier for us to do
is suddenly very challenging because we feel weaker for lack of a better phrase. And yeah,
again, though, just to let you know, I get to give you hope of what you can expect.
as you progress in becoming more familiar with shifting
into rest, is that you can discover
that even when you are being triggered by things,
like really big things, even when you are weary
and you're like, OK, I'm really, really worn down,
we actually, because it doesn't take any effort
to shift into rest, strength or lack of strength
doesn't affect our ability to shift into rest.
Like, say, if we're dealing with this, we're like, OK,
we can put that on the shelf for a second,
because I don't, and I can shift into rest for my daughter,
because it doesn't require any effort.
Because shifting, we can't, we don't work to move into rest.
We just let go.
So anyway, just as hope, I understand that you didn't,
that you're on the journey that you're on,
and that you're just at the point
where you didn't know how to do that, which is very normal.
I still do that in certain areas.
But I just, but there are certain areas
in which I don't feel at rest.
And like, for instance, that day when
I was interacting with those children,
there were areas that I was struggling to be at rest in.
And yet, when it came to the children,
I could just realize, OK, just dealing with them,
I can shift into rest, and then begin to deal with them.
And then when I didn't need to deal with them anymore,
then unfortunately, I was threatened
with picking up all of this other stuff all over again.
So anyway, just to give you some hope,
because my whole point in saying that is for us
to know that even when we feel weary,
and even when we feel weak, we're
never at a place in which we cannot take up
the inheritance that's rightfully ours.
So it doesn't take any effort to move into rest.
So weariness, not weariness, we can just shift in.
So that's just hope for the future.
And so yeah, so as far as all of the other things
she was talking about, the fact that you felt triggered again,
et cetera, so yeah, remember that,
and I've talked about this before,
and I'm just reiterating it, remember
that we don't have to deal with trauma, memory triggers,
whatever, in a specific way.
We don't have to actually address them directly
and intentionally for us to act to heal from them,
and for us to be able to let them go.
And by the letting them go, I'm not
talking about the whole in a moment you're releasing.
I'm talking about long term, you're
really letting them all go.
And there was something else I was going
to say before I moved on, though.
But anyway, so it'll come to me.
But if we need to grab, if we need something
to sink our teeth into, in other words,
it's like, OK, it's all great and wonderful, my identity,
understanding that I'm loved, understanding
that I'm secular, that I accepted all of that,
that's the most important thing for us to come back to.
Because if we do that, if we understand that we
are accepted by the Lord, meaning that we choose it,
that we choose to step into that world,
not that we simply allow the Lord to reveal to us
that He loves us.
No, we have to deliberately choose to risk our life
and put it on, put everything on the table,
our finances, our relationship, or what
it is that we think about God, what
it is that we think about ourselves,
our business, whatever.
Like, OK, God, I'm deliberately choosing
to put it all on the table simply because you
told me what you did.
You said you'll provide for me.
You protect me.
You're my comforter.
You love me, et cetera.
And therefore, I'm all in.
I'm risking everything.
I'm not holding anything back, trying
to protect myself from being disappointed by you
or being vulnerable or anything.
Like, even protecting from being disappointed,
that's a really big one.
That was something that I had to address to the Lord,
I guess it was last week, that I.
I had to repent and tell him, Lord, I understand and I acknowledge to you that I have been
trying to protect myself from disappointment.
Well, we're protecting ourselves from disappointment from the Lord, you know, internally means
I'm not, I'm not choosing him and I'm not believing him because I'm expecting the disappointment.
So anyway, things like that, but that if we deal, if we choose that God is as loving as
he says that he is, that he's as good as he says that he is, that he's everything else
that he says that he is.
And that we are who he says that we are.
In other words, if we believe God, if we choose, even if we don't believe it, but we choose
that that's true, it, we, we, um, we then shift into acknowledging and living out of
our new man, our identity, and that takes care of everything that takes care of all
of our trauma.
It takes care of all of our decision-making in our business.
It takes care of our relationships and how to, how to navigate those.
It takes care of how to make financial wise and spirit led financial decisions.
It takes care of everything.
So everything comes down to that.
My point is that even though we understand that sometimes it can feel like a leap, especially
in certain areas.
And so if we need a leverage for our soul, there's nothing wrong with that.
You watch the three realms teaching, right?
The one about the spirit, soul, and body.
Okay.
So, um, in, in that one, remember that if we can't, if, if we're just struggling in
a particular area to believe that he is, he says he is, and we are who he says that we
are, we still choose it.
Lord, I choose to believe that that is who you are.
But my piece is at needing a, a tool to grab a hold of, to help myself in this particular
area of like, say trauma or whatever.
And then we can choose, uh, and then God's like, that is perfectly fine.
It's perfectly fine.
There's no condemnation in using a very specific trauma related tool using a principle that
he created himself.
But what I would recommend is that you, uh, to deal with all of this trauma, you know,
and all of this and this unrest, et cetera, is yes, there are certain things that we can
do like, oh, you release and you choose and all of that.
It's very important for us to, to what it's important for us to choose first though, is
that our, is that God's word and who it is that he says that we are to choose our identity.
And, um, uh, so that's the first thing that we need to choose as opposed to like, um,
other things like specific to the trauma, et cetera, that's most important because that'll
deal with everything else.
Um, I, I apologize.
I feel, I know what I'm trying to say, but for whatever reason, I feel like I am all
over the board.
Um,
And I, probably because I explained the story, I was almost going to do it in parts and then
get your feedback.
And then I just went for the whole thing, but, um, okay, so maybe, maybe we can go back
to the beginning of what I talked about and just around.
So the whole thing about my friend, Sarah, who is, you know, doing this, I think there's
a part of me that's struggling with it because I wanted to write this book.
I wanted to make people aware of what was going on in the world.
I ended up reposting her post with like a post around that kind of thing, um, without
mentioning anything specific about me.
Um, and I think I'm struggling around, you know, I've got eight chapters of a book written.
I know what I would write for the rest of it.
I just haven't written it.
Cause God kept, I don't know, maybe it was God, maybe it was the enemy.
I don't know.
But I kept feeling that it was, it was stopping me.
Like I was just not able to move forward and not able to write.
And it really shouldn't have been that difficult.
And I don't know if part of it was because I don't want to be in that headspace anymore.
But even though I want to bring awareness to people, I don't want to be like focused
on it cause it's hard to focus on it.
Um, yeah, it was only a month ago or a little over a month ago, the last time I talked to
her and that will be the last time I talked to her for sure.
But it hasn't really been that long.
Sarah?
No, Sarah.
Sarah, I talked to the other day, but Jamie.
Jamie.
Okay.
You talked to her a month ago?
Her pseudonym.
Um, yeah, correct.
But yeah, the last time I talked to her was like maybe a month, a month and a half ago.
And then after that conversation, I finally got the strength to block her and block a
whole bunch of other people that are involved in the organization that I didn't know if
they were her flying monkeys that were kind of like knowing what I was doing and stuff.
So I.
I just shut it down and and that felt a lot better to finally block and shut down.
But it's like, am I supposed to not go back into that and write a book about it? Am I supposed to
write a book because it's going to bring awareness? Why do I feel like I keep getting stopped? This
editor that I was working with, he's not super happy with me because I could never move forward
and I don't know. And then just the trigger of all of that. And then with Sarah doing her shows,
doing her podcast, doing all this stuff, I'm like, man, she's able to speak out about it,
but I'm not for whatever reason. Yeah. So why did you start writing the book?
Well, I think part of it was for my healing because there was so much confusion that I
wanted to make sense of it. So I did a lot of research on cults and how they work and
narcissists and sociopaths and how they work. And I got a lot of clarity,
which was awesome because it was really unclear for a while. Because of the gaslighting and stuff,
I always believed it was my problem. And she never had a problem. She never did anything
wrong. It was always me that was bad in some way. So I need to understand why. And I went from not
even knowing what a narcissist was or what a cult actually was to all of a sudden being like an
expert in both areas, which is hopefully going to be useful someday. But I thought I wanted to
create awareness about these kinds of groups because I got involved in it as a Christian
who was strong in my faith. And yet I got pulled away so easily. And I wanted to help people who
that might happen to, to bring awareness. So I think it was to help me with my healing,
which it did. And then I just kept feeling like the door was closing and I wasn't supposed to.
Now, when you say that you felt like you weren't supposed to, were the words
continuing to come and this desire to get it out was still coming, but you just felt that,
I know when you said that you felt that you weren't supposed to, but I'm basically trying to
ask where there's two warring factions of you. One that was just like, get it out. And then the
other one was just like, stop. Or what? Trying to understand. That is what it felt like, yeah.
Okay. So, and then, did you, when you were writing it,
and when you think about it, about sending this baby out into the world, do you feel alive?
I feel scared.
You feel scared. What about when you write it and you think that no one's going to read it,
do you feel alive? Like, even when you think about writing it, I mean like, oh, well, yeah,
I can walk over to my desk right now. I can start writing. Do you feel alive? Like totally,
totally, you know, ignoring whether or not anybody sees it.
I don't feel excited. I feel, I feel like it brings back a lot of the trauma.
Okay. So you, do you feel, okay. So you don't feel peace about it at all?
I did at first. I did when I started writing it. I felt alive. I felt at peace.
And I don't know what happened in between.
All of a sudden, yeah.
And then when you, when you feel that you, that you just felt you had to stop, how did this stop
feel? Did it, were you suddenly just, were you suddenly afraid or were you suddenly unmotivated
to write, suddenly unmotivated to research? Was, I mean, what was the, what was this,
or was it just kind of like, no, I'm doing all of this. And there was like this train
again, or, I mean, what, what was it?
I think the combination, a combination of all of those things, there was,
I think the enemy was causing a lot of fear in me because I would talk to my editor about it.
And he's a strong Christian. So he was trying to talk me through it, but
there was a fear about putting it out there. There was a fear about everything around it.
Then there was a fear that it wasn't going to be read by anybody. There was a fear that
it wasn't good enough. There was a fear that I didn't really know what I was talking about.
There's a fear that what if I'm wrong and she's right, and I'm saying all these things,
and I'm actually incorrect in my thinking. What if I'm just doing it because I'm,
what if it's not from the pure place that I want it to be from about sharing my story,
and it's actually about, you know, bringing them down, which doesn't feel as aligned with God.
But even though I don't mention them or anything, it, and then, yeah, I mean, it just,
I was on a trajectory that felt good.
and then I just all of a sudden couldn't write anymore, like I couldn't and I
wondered if it was because God wanted me to change the story and not have it just
be about the group and that situation but be about my life and how that led to
me getting involved in the group and how that led to my ultimate healing
afterwards. And then I have fear because if I wrote the book about it that way I
would, my mom, my dad, people who were in my life that I would be talking about
with the abuse when I was young would know about it and it's not fair to them
and it's just there's so many things going on around it. Yeah, okay so one of
the things that comes to mind, let me grab my Bible really quick because I
don't remember exactly where it is. Oh, it's in one of the churches, oops,
one of the churches of Revelation, let me see here, where God talks about this.
Okay, it was to Thyatira, okay, all right, so to Thyatira he talked to
them about things he was saying. He said, I know you're in Revelation 2
starting in, I don't know, say, we'll go to 19, says, I know your deeds, your love and
faith, your service and perseverance and that you're doing more than you did at
first. Nevertheless, I have this against you. You tolerate that woman Jezebel who
calls herself a prophetess. Sorry, I'm making a point here, let's see, I've
given her time to repent of her immorality. Okay, so it says, then
all the children and then all the churches will know that I am he who
searches hearts and minds and I will repay each of you according to your
deeds. Now I say to the rest of you, in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her
teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets, only hold on to
what you have until until I come. So my point in saying that is, in pointing that
out, is where it says, you know, and to those of you who don't know Satan's
so-called deep secrets, he commended them. He was saying it's good to not know what
the wicked do in secret. Now it's not that people don't, it's not that
there is, that God, let me let me back up, God gives it to certain people,
keep moving this thing around, gives it to certain people to understand
things about Satan's strategies and how, and evil that goes on in the world, you
know, say human trafficking and whatever, so that, because he has a particular, he
has a particular purpose for them. He's like, hey, there are people who are in
bondage in those areas and I desire for you to set them free by knowing all of
these things in order to, in order to approach it from a particular, from a
particular angle, because these people needs, need, and it's, it's, you know, think
about kind of like down in the soul, like we're gonna talk about those three
realms, like down in the soul, where they need something to grasp on to, they need
something to kind of sink their teeth into, to get kind of like pull themselves
forward, so it's like that, so there are a lot of deliverance ministries that know
all of these deep dark secrets of Satan and how this works and the splitting of
souls and, whoops, the splitting of souls and all of these really creepy
things, and then there are other people that, and, and God, God provides pastors
and coaches and people to minister to people where they're at, because if
certain people are having a difficult time, desire, and don't desire to shift
into the spirit, they're like, no, I need too much of the tangible, I need too much
of the carnal, I need too much of the, of the hands-on tips, tricks, and tools, God
provides people to speak into their lives, because he's very passionate about
people, about the captives being set free, so he will put people where other people
are looking for people to help them know how to be set free, so he teaches, he
allows certain people
people to learn these deep, dark secrets of the underworld and keeps them from being corrupted,
keeps them safe, where they're almost like a catalyst, where they can learn about all
of these things without being affected by the evil, the demonic, and whatever, while
other people just can't handle it without being sucked in.
My point is that God gives it to certain people to do, but he doesn't give it to everyone,
meaning that, and then here in Thyatira, he was basically saying it's shameful to know
that, it's not the word he used, so that's a really bad example to give, but he was just
saying that it's good to not know if you don't know the deep, dark secrets of Satan.
So in other words, he's like, it's not needed in order to be set free, but yet God does
still allow certain people to learn about all of those things, to help other people who are in
that area of life looking for help, so that they'll find help, because he's a good father.
He's like, where are my people looking, and even though they have the opportunity to move
into greater freedom and greater rest, if they feel that they need to know something
and to understand something in order to get a grip on it, in order to move forward, I will
give them a tool, and I will give them the people that they need in order to learn and know the
tools. My point is that God does provide grace over certain people, over people's lives to know
and understand that. So I wanted to say all of this to say that the way that God set up the world,
you are free to not have to learn, understand, write, or what is the word,
expose what all of these people do in secret. That is not your burden. It might be something
that God has given you the grace to be able to do, because there are people that that book would help,
but he doesn't give it to everyone to learn all of those things,
immerse themselves in that, and write the book. He gives it to some people and not to others.
The thing is that I'm wondering if you're, and I don't know what yours is, I don't know what he's
called you to do, I wanted you to know that just because you've experienced something and
does not mean that you have to continually expose yourself to something
in order to help other people, because other people can be helped by more than just
learning about the difficulties and the evil that you were exposed to.
They don't have to know the deep, dark secrets of Satan in order to be saved out of them.
They don't even have to know that God has
multiple ways of exposing people. In fact, you expose the darkness by exposing it to the light,
as opposed to focusing on the darkness. It's like, no, what's the light? And then the light will
naturally make very evident what the darkness is without the darkness even having to be addressed.
I don't know what he's calling you to. I'm just putting out something there that maybe you hadn't
thought of so that you can see in your spirit with the Lord where it is that you feel your,
where you feel your spirit has life. Does it feel life in writing the book and exposing these things
because God's given you the grace to do so? Or do you feel that you have a heart for them,
but God has given you the freedom to reach people and to really help proclaim
freedom to the captives by focusing on the light without having to focus on the darkness,
without talking about it, expose yourself to it. Does that all make sense?
Yeah, so- Both of them are used by God.
Pardon me? All of it can be used by- Both of them are used by God. Yes,
but I don't know what he's calling, what he is offering you to be a part of.
I feel like the light part of it would be my Set Free Academy because that's come from
a lot of my pain and trauma. And in this situation,
losing my identity and all of that,
and building it up again in God's image
with that foundation of his, you know,
who we are in him and our worth and value in him,
not in the world and all of those things.
So I feel like that program in itself is like the light.
And I've really enjoyed working on that.
And I would love to have more people come into that program.
The darkness for me is going into
all of the stuff that happened,
which for the most part I understand.
I don't think I'm in confusion like I was before.
Once in a while pops up, but not like it did
when it was before it was like, it was crazy making.
And I feel like that kind of represents the darkness maybe.
And I also feel like God has called me
to a certain extent to expose it.
But how do I expose it without going into the darkness
and like expose it by bringing it into the light?
So you feel that when I was talking about the exposing,
specifically I was talking about talking about the darkness
and then having to research it
and learn all of those things.
I don't know a whole lot about cults.
I know some of it, you know, I know brainwashing
and I know there's sexual stuff involved.
I've talked to people who've been in satanic cults before,
people who reached out to me for help
and who are still living with demons,
and because of their involvement in satanic cults,
so I'm familiar with some things,
but volunteering, human sacrifices, et cetera.
But as far as like what it is that you know
and like the inner workings and how they're,
and how they like strategically organize
in order to brainwash in a culture and a network,
I don't know.
So anyway, sorry, I had a point.
What was your question again?
Around how do you bring it into the light
instead of going into the darkness?
Yes, okay, so when I was talking about the exposing,
I was talking about focusing specifically
on the dark aspect of it in order to expose it.
Like, hey, this is what it is.
When, so what, if you're talking about exposing it
by just, you know, by presenting the light,
it's focusing on what is true,
what God says is true as opposed to talking
about the counterfeit.
Focusing on the truth makes the counterfeit very obvious
as opposed to having to learn
what all of the counterfeits are.
I mean, we think about all of the amount of counterfeit
that Satan has baked into this world.
And there's a lot, there is no end of learning
in order to be able to discern
is what I'm experiencing a counterfeit or not.
We have to specifically learn all of the counterfeits
and the ways that it can disguise itself.
Where if we just focus on the truth,
which is honestly very simple,
if we just focus on the truth,
the counterfeit, even if we've never been exposed
to that particular type of counterfeit before
is very obvious because we know what the truth is.
And so we know that if it doesn't align with the truth,
that it's a counterfeit and that's how to expose it.
Now, so you're, I agree.
You know, it sounds like your Freedom Academy
or Break Free Academy.
Set Free Academy, yeah.
Set Free Academy is just that.
That's what it sounds like.
It sounds like, you know, it's focusing on the light,
which will make everyone realize the counterfeit
in different areas of their life.
And it will, and even without them realizing it,
which is what I teach in the Rest Intensive,
even without focusing on it and paying attention
to what exactly the darkness is and giving a name to it
and giving a name to the trauma
and realizing their triggers
and preparing yourself against being triggered
and da, da, da, da,
what I focus on in the Rest Intensive
is making the light so obvious and so big
that we don't even have to focus,
we don't even have to know what our traumas are.
We don't even have to know what our past is.
It's naturally healed and the darkness is pushed out
by simply exposing the darkness to the light.
So did you have a specific question
about how to write the book from a place of light
in order to express the darkness?
That's, well, when you were talking,
I was thinking about making it more,
cause I've done all this work on it already,
but it doesn't necessarily mean
that I have to use what I've done.
That might've just been part of my healing
and understanding process.
That's what I was wondering.
Yeah, to bring it into the light, I was like, it almost works to intertwine what God was doing
from when I was really young and what the enemy was doing, almost like the battle that was going
on. I think of the Scrooge, I love the Scrooge tape letters and like how that works. Almost
like the battle that was going on from the abuse I went through when I was young, to my belief
systems growing up, to being suicidal, to getting involved in relationships that weren't healthy and
being very codependent, all of those things. All the way to God finally, all of this culminating
into this last bit of getting involved in this group thinking that was the answer. Because I'd
already tried all these things that I thought were the answer. Then I found Christianity and
that was really the answer. But then I just, it wasn't good enough. I wanted something more. I
wanted more knowledge. I wanted to understand. I wanted personal development. I wanted to break
free. I didn't know how, so I went into this group, but it wasn't of Christ. But it was very
deceptive because they would have told you it was. They were all Christians, but Christians
in quotation marks. I don't know what that means to them exactly, but it was like a Christian group.
And how the theme for me is what God, what he ultimately wants for us, what he is,
like we go through the storms of life, but ultimately what the answer is and how we can
search and search. But really at the end of the day, the answer is him. And we have to be careful
what we choose to focus on and choose to get involved in and our thought life, because God
wants us to hold every thought captive to Christ. He wants us to be transformed by the renewing of
our mind. He wants us to live in the spirit and not focus as much on the physical, but yet we do.
And it gets us into trouble. And it did in my life. And I think it does in many other people's
lives. So I think the whole thing is this theme of overcoming whatever you've gone through and
searching for the answer in Christ only, not in a group, not in a movement, not in drugs, sex,
alcohol, whatever, which I've done all of. And I think the world that needs to understand like
the only one who can give you your identity is Christ. You can be gay and go for, you know,
pride parades and be like, you know, go, you know, pride, I'm gay, I'm out and proud and all that.
You can go and be in Black Lives Matter and be like, I'm black, my life matters. But none of
that, they're all finding their identity in these things that are not actually Christ. And they're
not healthy because it's always us against them. When you're in Christ, it's not us against them.
Everyone's included for real. Now, a cult is very us against them, all of these things, right? Like,
so I think the theme of the book for me is not necessarily, and I can include some of what I've
written, because a lot of it is like details about what I went through, because it was like
details about having people understand what really goes on in these groups. So sharing some of the
inner things that happen. So and it's quite captivating, as well as a story, because
if I told you some of the inner details of what really happened, it was like,
maddening. And so I was never branded, but it certainly felt like I was emotionally.
And so just going into a book from that place of light, and I wonder if
that would be more aligned with God. Yeah, well, and just sense in your spirit,
because the way that you were doing it doesn't mean that it's not, that God wouldn't have someone
write the book the way that you were writing it. My point was that you were not at peace about it.
So your peace is, that is the point at which your soul has come into agreement with your spirit,
and you are understanding a specific truth and wisdom and knowledge that your spirit has,
your spirit who's in Christ knows all things and has. And then so it was telling you something,
and your peace was saying, or your lack of peace was saying, hey, look, something's off of
the truth here. But it was what, and the truth is whatever it is that God was wanting you to do.
So I just want to clarify, make sure that that's understood. There is therefore no
condemnation. I don't know what it, you know, God has certain people write like that, but if
he doesn't want you to write like that, what is it that he wants you to write? And so you can just,
you can take this before the Lord and just sense where your peace is at. You can do it different
ways. I don't think that you're going to need this for your soul, but if you do,
You can do it this way where you look at your various options.
And like keeping the book where it is or, you know, writing the book like you've been writing it or where you write the book with
In in the way that you're thinking about it and then you can even come up with another one. If you need to. But anyway, just think of what your options are and think, what is your soul want to do, forget about what God wants you to do, forget about, you know,
What your spirit wants to do, you know, you by yourself. Make your own decision. What do you want to do when you don't want to do what feels comfortable. What those familiar. What doesn't feel comfortable.
In other words, let your soul have its say because your soul is is unified with your spirit and with your body. You're all one and it wants to have a say.
And it's, it's like a child that doesn't really need something. It just wants attention. It's just like, I just need to know I'm important. I need to know that I'm being seen and heard. It's very strange, but
It's, it seems to it seems to evidence itself like that. So you let yourself have it say so that you understand and acknowledge for yourself.
That that an aspect of you that just needs to have it have it voice. So the know what it is you want
Or what you're thinking, then put your soul aside and just think in your spirit. Okay, forget about what it is I want to do and all of that. What does my or my soul in my spirit.
What is, where's my piece that and then and then bring each one and think, is this bring each option to yourself and think, okay, do I feel peace in this or not, do I feel peace in this or not, sometimes what you might do.
Is if you don't feel 100% peace in both one in both in in one of them.
You might feel partial peace, then that kind of allows you to understand to dig deeper into it. Okay, I'm feeling partial piece. So in other words, I'm heading in the right direction. So what are some other options.
And just like start dreaming in a sandbox. In other words, which is software terms. So that's probably confusing, but
And just start just start dreaming in a safe place with a word. Okay, Lord. What about this option. What about this option. Don't try to make it work. Don't think, is it possible for it to work. And sorry, I've got to
And plug in my, my phone and don't, don't be concerned about is this likely to work or not work or this makes sense or it doesn't make sense.
And you just, you just think of all kinds of different options. And I'm only telling you this, just in case and you you needed this
Because when you get when you get with the Lord, you might be like, oh my word. Yeah. What, what I told you actually the first time the Lord gave you complete these just in case.
This is, this is another another option.
And you just start you start playing around. You start thinking about, okay, well, this one area. This one option that I felt more peace in between the two options that that I was considering
Then how could I tweak it.
I could tweak it this way. I could do that way. I mean, just kind of wild ideas for how you could tweak it and see if there's which areas or which
Aspects of it, you feel peace in and which aspects of it. You don't feel peace in and then you can start to to narrow down
Or get a fuller fleshed out picture of how it is. God really wants you to write the book when the final thing that you find out from the Lord.
Might be very, very different than the two original options you'd presented to him. So you just kind of, it's almost like this bread.
Breadcrumb trail you follow the breadcrumbs you follow the piece and you submit different things to the Lord.
And you start and you start moving in them because God, you know that that whole thing of God can't move a parked car, you know, and just start, start moving start testing start
Because it'll be God is a safe place in which to to wonder and in which to, you know, present ideas. I know that
That a lot of people had not felt safe, either with their parents or in school to wonder and question and whatever. And so we all thought that, oh, bad thing it God's a very safe place in which to do that. So I don't know the answer.
But that is how you can find the answer. And if you don't know for sure what it is, you know, you're like, well, I think my piece is kind of sort of here. So I'm going to start writing like that.
I'm going to start doing that. Again, moving the parked car and then just see where where it takes you. Is that making sense.
Yeah, for sure. It's like that that
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. I can do that. And I think, you know, when I was I had never described it the way I just described it to you. It just came to me when we were talking and
That feels very right in my spirit. The only thing is, I don't know if now is the right time.
time because if I am to write about it it will come it will involve parents it will involve
you know immediate family and they'll know about it unless I write it under a pen name but even
then like I don't really want to write it under a pen name because I want to be able to share it
with my clients and people in my life right so I feel like I might it might be something that I do
in 15 years maybe now is not the right maybe I need maybe God wants me to have more clarity
and or more peace about everything before I dive in because
kind of going at it from this place of attack where I want to expose feels um
it doesn't feel peaceful it feels purposeful but it doesn't feel peaceful that's a very
very interesting um distinction um yeah and um and maybe he wants you to wait you can ask him
about this um wait wait until your identity isn't defined by the but in the areas in which uh you'd
be describing because we think that our identity isn't in them and yet we're triggered if we're
triggered our identity is attached to it in some way so some way I do think partly you're right like
my identity is attached to being in the group because now so much of what I've created has
come out of being in the group and I want that time I want the difficulties in my life to matter
not just for me but for other people I want to help people with them because I'm like that's how
I can turn my pain into purpose or that's how I feel like God is going to you know use everything
that I've been through to help other people and to comfort them with the same comfort he's given me
so my identity is tied up in being able to help people with
their pain and help them overcome it with him just like my experience has been
yeah yeah and so what were you saying about that specifically about your the fact that your identity
was wrapped up is wrapped up in that when you say about my identity you know maybe he's waiting
till my identity is not in those things yeah it's possible that because they still are
but I don't know how to bridge the gap I don't know how to transfer
transfer my identity being in all that stuff to you know where it should be yeah um
so first of all I want to say that you are not your woundings you're not your pain and
you're not what you went through you're not what you experience that's not what gives you
significance your significance I'm not saying it's not valuable I'm not saying that you know
that what you went through is not important I'm not I'm not devaluing what is what I'm saying is
that you are not what has happened to you you're not this that that you're that your identity
your your value your purpose is not um defined by the abuse that you went through the fact that you
were suicidal the fact that um you um uh that what you went through you know that caused you to become
a Christian you know that cost you that since you did a church you know because of that that
horrific um uh situation that you were um that you were connected to with the not you know what
I'm saying that yeah people that you knew that that couple that you knew and um the uh your um
your teacher friend and then um in the becoming a Christian when you did and your and your journey
in Christianity and then the fact that you were um that you didn't recognize um a cult and you
were pulled into the cult and all that those things do not do not identify you give you
significance and did not define your purpose your death and they didn't they didn't they didn't
define your destiny either like destiny of like oh writing a book and exposing things and helping
lead other people into freedom because your your destiny is actually to be according to who it is
that you are in the spirit and use in in and by being overcoming the world oh just like Jesus
overcame the world he calls us to follow him in that and to overcome the world we overcome by
by man by manifesting who it is that we are in the spirit down into our soul down into our body so
that our soul and our bodies start reflecting the fact that we are in the visible realm the fact
that we got um the fact that we're all
already free in the invisible realm.
And then after we have that freedom and after we have, after we are free, after we have
released our creation, our soul and our body from frustration, now we have a freedom and
a release from frustration that we can then give to the rest of creation.
And that is our destiny.
Our destiny is to overcome.
Our destiny is to manifest the invisible into the visible realm, period.
Our destiny is not to write a book, to set other people free.
That is not our destiny.
Our destiny is to overcome.
Now, yes, the overcoming is setting people free, et cetera, but my, my point is the way
that we usually think about, Oh, well, I want to, I want to help people on whatever.
So every moment of your day, we, we need to be following our destiny, which is, I need
to be who it is that God says that I am meaning, and there's no effort in that.
I just need to come into agreement that I am this thing and that I need, I need to allow
me being, and we're just putting on our own oxygen mask.
I need to allow me being to just to, to manifest into creation through my soul, through my
body and then out into creation and that it, and so I need to overcome in every area.
I'm washing dishes.
I am, you know, talking to my husband, I'm interacting with my daughter.
I'm making the bed.
Everything that we're doing, there's an element in which we are, we are trying to make, which
we are overcoming the fact that, that the visible realm is not currently reflect is
subject to frustration and is not reflective of the invisible realm.
And we are, we are constantly trying to manifest the invisible into the visible.
So I just, the reason I wanted to point that out is to free us from this idea that our
identity is wrapped up in what's happened to us.
The trials that we endured, the things that people did, the suffering that we suffered,
the pain that we dealt with, and then how we can then use that to help someone else.
That's not our value and that is not what we give someone else.
We don't give someone else our experience and our pain and what it is we learned and
all of that, who it, that has no life in it.
It was nothing but death.
So it can't bring life.
It's just death.
Death can't bring life.
You are what brings life.
You are enough.
You would be enough and could, and have literally everything it is that you need to bring people
to, to overcome and to bring people into freedom.
Just you being you, without you having experienced any of those things, with you having lived
a perfect life, just like Jesus did.
Jesus set the world free and he didn't, and he didn't sin.
He didn't, he wasn't suicidal.
He didn't struggle like we did.
He wasn't abused, meaning, and abuse is basically, is the meaning that we attribute to the situation.
It's not what happens to us.
Yes, what happens to us is terrible and all of that, but it's just, you know, the, when
I say abuse, what I'm talking about is, yes, people can be abusive, so we can have abusive
actions on us, but like, like what we think of when somebody who's like been abused and
then the fact that they, it's affected them.
When we say that someone's been abused, we automatically shift into the fact that, oh,
it affected, the effect that it had on them.
Jesus had no negative effects on him because he didn't attribute any, any, any meanings
to his identity based off of what people said or did.
When people wanted to kill him, stone him, which they eventually did, he was betrayed
by Judas, you know, it's terrible, terrible things.
I just wanted to release you so that you could begin by saying it, but then you can take
it before the Lord and begin to shift more and more in your understanding your identity
and choosing that if he says that you're enough, just because you are, just because you be,
just because of who it is that he made you, which is spirit, not what you've experienced,
and you can, you can deliberately choose that that is true and that that is the way that
the world works.
That is the way that your world works and you will live accordingly.
You will live according to what, however you would live if the world worked like that and
you're no longer tied to any obligation to glorify the evil that you experienced.
And that's a really big deal is, and that's what people usually do in their testimonies
is they glorify the evil that they went through.
And there is no, so a lot of times that's another reason why I don't usually tell people
my testimony and the things that I go through, like, yuck, who needs to know all of that?
And they, people wonder, Ashley, why did you do that?
You talk about it, I'm like, because I have no desire
to go talking about what happened and the difficulties.
So there is a way to do it without glorifying it.
My point is that it's not good that we glory
in our experiences as if they have any value whatsoever.
They have death, they can't bring life to me,
they can't bring life to other people.
Only the spirit of the Lord does that.
Then how do you talk about those experiences
to like in a glorified, in a non-glorified way,
I guess, how do you talk about them in a healthy way?
And the other question I had was when somebody,
so how do you justify what you went through in the past
and see when you know God wants to bring good out of it
and he knows you want to him, he wants you to help people.
I feel like there's no other way for me to justify
what I went through for most of my life
without allowing him to use it for good.
So those are my questions there.
Yes, he does absolutely use it for good,
but that's not what gives it, how would you put it?
Man, I've never had to, I never had to word that before.
Man, how would you word that?
The, yeah, and I knew that that was the struggle
because that's the struggle that I had.
That's why I didn't let go of things
that I went through for a very long time.
And I told God that when I was still in the middle of it
and I'm like, God, I know what you want.
This was about, I didn't know, six years ago,
I remember exactly where I was and I said, okay, God,
I was on the floor, I was not in a good place.
And I told God, okay, God, I was mad, I was so mad at him.
And this was a very new place for me to be at with the Lord.
And I told God, God, I know that you want me to let this go,
but I can't let it go.
And I can't let it go and I don't wanna let it go
because I feel that if I do,
that it means that it doesn't mean anything.
It means that what I went through had no value
and no significance.
And that's why I wanted so badly other people
to acknowledge what it is that I had been through.
And one of the reasons why I was holding onto things
and holding grudges and not forgiving, et cetera,
because I said, because God, this is valuable
and this is important and all of that.
So I definitely understand that, that this is very normal.
What shifts us is understanding that
we're looking for value and significance.
And we're so used to finding in our identity,
and we're so used to finding it in what happened to us,
that when we really honestly find our identity in Christ
and understand we are who God says I am,
and whatever he says of Christ is said of me,
he loves me to the extent that he does.
He accepts me to the extent that he does,
even when I'm in the middle of sinning against him.
My relationship with him is never threatened,
and I'm never in a state of separation from him,
even in the middle of sinning.
I'm never in a state of separation
from him in relationship.
And when I finally come to accept that,
I found the thing that I was trying,
that I was holding desperately onto the other for
to give me, so I no longer needed it.
I'm looking for an anchor, and that's the anchor.
That's why I can't let go of this.
This is why this had to be like,
this has to have purpose, Lord.
You've got to, surely there has to be a reason,
because otherwise, Lord, I don't deserve it,
because we think, because our identity's wrapped up in it.
We think that it says something about us.
Like, well, okay, good Lord, unless I help other people,
which would give me significance to my life,
this is how we process things,
which would give me significance to my life,
unless it happens.
Well, then, Lord, that's the only way
I can justify what happened to me,
because if I don't have that to justify what happened to me,
the only explanation that I can think of
is that apparently I deserved that,
and I don't want to believe that about myself.
We don't understand those are not the only options,
but that's the only options we can think of,
because we're using our pain and our experience,
how people interact with us, all of that,
to identify us, because we are not believing
that we're safe with the Lord for Him to identify us.
So when I chose.
Was this and stopped trying to make this make sense when I just chose this and I left this for a while, which for me felt like I was dying.
And I am not exaggerating when I say that I remember exactly where I was. It was like 630 in the morning. It was dark. I was driving to work and I literally felt like I was suffocating.
I was starting to, I was starting to panic. I was starting to have a, I don't know if it was an anxiety attack, panic attack, whatever it was.
And my chest started to close in and I told the Lord, Lord, if I let this whole thing go without you resolving it for me without you explain the purpose and
You know, and all of that to me without you giving it a
A reason outside of the fact that apparently I deserve to be treated like that, but you give me a reason if I let go of all of that.
And and I just jump into the great unknown. I felt like I was going to die.
I mean, not not figuratively felt like I was going to die. I felt that literally I would not be able to breathe. And while I was driving down the road. I told the Lord. Okay, Lord, I'm all in.
I'm just going to abandon the whole thing because I have no option. I've tried this for so long. It's not working. My only hope is that I can abandon it completely.
So, you know, throw myself on your mercy and hope that I actually do survive on the other side. It felt like I was I was killing myself.
That I was throwing myself in the middle of a fire. Someone didn't push me and I didn't allow God to push me. I mean, meaning like it wasn't like I was a lot is telling God. Okay, God, you want me to jump in the fire. Okay, I'm going to allow you to push me
God's like, no, I'm not going to push you. You have to take ownership and responsibility and you have to throw yourself in the fire. It felt like that. I mean, it was it was life or death, you know,
It was, it was extreme. So I did I immediately driving down the road driving on the road in the dark. I just gave it up.
And all of a sudden there was life on the other side. This was like five years ago. This is before I learned about rest. This was so long ago.
And in fact, I did. I got my journal over there, which I wrote down the experience and I gave up my sense of entitlement to myself, my sense of entitlement that all of this had to make sense. My sense of entitlement that, you know, God had to prove to me that I didn't deserve it and
I just abandoned it and it was as desperate as all of the reasons why you haven't said no.
As all of the reasons why you stay where you are. It's that extreme and it is that hard where it feels like you will like everything will fall apart. If you do
I don't know how to word it to explain to you how extreme it is. It really did feel like a literal life or death decision.
Not a figurative one like, oh, I just don't know how I'm going to be able to do what I want now. No, it's like, I will not be able to breathe in this next second. If I give it up.
Because you had, I think it's because you had your identity so wrapped up in something. And then all of a sudden you were in this space of thinking, I'm not going to know my identity for a little like for a little while. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it exactly. But is it
Is it something like that where you, you had this solid identity and then all of a sudden you weren't going to know or you didn't know what your identity actually was?
Well, it was more than that. It was that. I mean, so it was that, obviously, it was more than that. And the fact that I didn't
That
My identity and I knew this at the time identity was wrapped up in who it is that God was. So therefore I was abandoning myself to the fact that
I don't know. I don't know who God is. I don't know what life is about. I don't know if there's any point to any of this. I don't know if I'm killing myself if the Lord is trying to kill me. I don't know anything. I mean, it was just, it was my whole world.
Was going to crumble. So it, like I said, it wasn't like I just thought, oh, well, I'm just not going to know myself for a while. And I'm going to feel lost. No, I felt like I was literally going to die.
I mean, it was bad. It was really bad. In fact, just like
I'm just wondering, while you're looking for that. I'm wondering, like, why, why you felt you were going to die. Like what was going on inside you where you felt like you were going to die.
Because your spirit, soul, and body are so united and so one that if my soul felt like it, it was going to die, then my body did.
Yeah, see, I think I can kind of understand what you were going through. Because when I explained to you that one summer when I got out of the group.
You remember the phrase, related to the work itself, and like, you walk around thinking, Oh, if I found any knowledge, any knowledge I can tell my friends.
It was like, so what you started out with was like, oh, I should have known something else.
than this other person.
So all of a sudden.
Letting that go was so scary.
And for a while I couldn't.
And I was, I was, I literally felt like I was gonna die.
I wanted to die.
I felt like I couldn't do anything.
I was, I, so I kind of, I pro,
I might understand part of what you experienced.
Cause it's like, it's so messed up
that nobody can really understand it
unless they've been through it.
Yes, yes.
I think I may have found it.
Okay.
Um, and it's, oh no.
Oh, three times, so it dies.
Just pulling in.
Let's see.
Drive home.
Oh no, that was, that was later.
That was another issue I went through.
I was another death.
I had to die.
Display.
Let's see here.
I, the way that I write in my journal is I title things.
I title this, I title like them on theme or topic.
So I'm looking for one of the topics,
but okay, let's see what year was that?
That'll help.
I know what year that was.
Um, that was, I think it was 30.
Yeah.
So when did I turn 30?
Um, I turned 30.
Oh, 14, 2014.
That's when it was.
Okay.
These are like, I'm not finding it.
Oh, I wonder if I wrote it, put it down later.
30, appropriate, single.
Oh, wow.
Well, I'm sorry.
I'm not finding it, but, oh, release.
No, that was a different release.
I'm not sure, but anyway, what I told you,
you know, is just basically it,
that I had to release myself of entitlement
to everything, to what it is
that I was holding accountable for.
And one of the things I was holding accountable for
is to make sense of what it is that I went through.
Purpose, there had to be a purpose.
There had to make, there had to be significance
and it had to make sense.
And I was holding him accountable for that.
And I wouldn't let it go until he, or until I did.
And I didn't mean, and for a long time,
I didn't feel antagonistic.
I didn't know that I felt antagonistic toward him
until the longer it went
when I didn't understand the purpose.
Because see, other people were not even acknowledging
that what I'd went through was as bad as it was.
Let alone anybody listening to me
for me to be able to feel like,
oh, well, you know, I can actually
help other people through this.
People weren't even acknowledging
that I was going through a hard time.
So does me.
It was, and I was just like,
so I thought I'm the only one,
my paying attention to it is the only way that I can,
that justice can be exacted in the fact that
something that happened and a truth
is actually being acknowledged and recognized.
And so I held on to it.
So I just had to let it go.
It's nice and it's,
and we like to ask the Lord,
hey Lord, can you resolve this for me?
Can you reconcile it?
Can we understand it?
Can it make sense?
And then from there, Lord,
you know, we can move forward.
And the Lord sometimes,
and sometimes he allows us to do that,
or the Lord, then Lord, then I'll let it go.
If you can help me make sense,
even if I don't like the reason,
if you can give me the reason,
if we can kind of, you know,
if I can get some understanding
of at least what you were doing,
I won't hold you accountable for it even anymore,
even if it's not the way that,
even if the reason that you give
for what it is that I went through
isn't what I wish it were.
And sometimes God's like, no,
he's like, I want you to give it up
without me making sense of it for you.
He's like, I need you to understand
that you were that free,
that it doesn't require anything.
You are not subject to, limited by,
or enslaved to such an extent
that you have to have logic, understanding,
or knowledge in order to free yourself
from anxiety, stress, whatever,
of being enslaved by a situation internally.
He's like, even those things,
let alone needing somebody else to help you.
He's like, I'll need you to understand
that you're not enslaved to,
limited to only being able to be free
when someone else helps you.
He's like, so it's like, it's even more than that.
He said, you are not enslaved.
until you gain more knowledge or gain more understanding,
or I explain it to you, or I help you make sense of it.
He said, you are not enslaved at all.
You let go of it now because you're a king
and you choose to.
And so when I finally, my point is,
God sometimes does help us make sense of it and whatever,
and we can like be more gently,
even though it's not gentle,
more gently what, and then other times he's like,
no, I want you to understand you're so free.
You get to choose that you're free just because you say so.
And I want you to cast yourself upon me in abandonment,
believing that I'm gonna catch you
and that there's life on the other side
because I declare to you, you're that free.
You're so free, it doesn't even have to make sense.
So choose that that's the case.
And then you will come to either,
then you just come to understand things a bit better.
Sometimes he tells you,
he helps you make sense of it afterwards,
after you throw yourself on his mercy,
just completely abandon the fact that it has to make sense.
It gives again, it's that sense of entitlement.
It's got it, it's what God, I'm, I should,
it should make sense.
So the fact that it doesn't make sense,
yeah, that Lord, this situation, it shouldn't be.
Then we know we have to release it
whenever we're in a situation where like,
it should not be the way it is.
God's like, that's resistance.
So we release our sense of entitlement and ownership
and holding God accountable to,
for us to not move on until, until we get this resolved.
And so sometimes God does sure walk us this way,
but if it's, but he gives us the opportunity to choose
that we don't allow ourselves to be enslaved anymore,
even to requiring something outside of us,
which is logic, sense, understanding to free us.
God's like, you don't need anything to free you.
You get to choose because he says you already are free.
So understanding doesn't free us
unless we give it the power to do so.
And he doesn't want us to give our power over to anything,
even understanding logic, sense, even if it's godly,
even if it reflects truth.
Yeah, it's interesting when you're talking
and thinking about people who can't let go of a loved one
who passed away, especially if it was a tragic death,
where they're like, it doesn't make sense.
Why did that have to happen?
And I talked to somebody recently who's going through that
and it's like, she's not able to let it go.
And I said, do you think you'll ever know the answer
to why it happened?
And she's like, no, not until I get to heaven.
I was like, yeah, so how do you think,
it kind of in a kind way,
like what would be the best way to live your life
if you know you're not gonna get an answer
until you're probably on the other side?
Because it's just kind of what you're saying,
we don't always get the answers.
And I have wanted to justify my experience
by having an answer.
And I'm like, I love when things come full circle.
And I'm like, when this comes full circle,
I will know that God has used it
the way it was meant to be used.
I'll know that I was faithful in walking the path
he wants me to walk.
And I've been so cognizant of that,
like creating the program
and trying to make something come out of it.
And like really trying to go by his leading too,
not just what I want, but what's he calling me to?
What does he want to do with all of this pain
that I've been through?
And I hear what you're saying.
It's like, he just wants me to release it
and let go and be in the spirit.
And it sounds so wonderful.
And there's this part of me that's like,
like you said, if I let it go,
just like if someone lets go of a loved one,
do I lose the memory?
Do I lose the purpose?
Do I lose the significance?
Is this ever going to be used
if I'm not thinking about it anymore?
So then that's a concern of mine.
How will he use all of this if I'm not focused on it anymore,
if I don't share it and help people with it?
And how will people ever know
that I've been through something
if I don't share a little bit of it with them?
So that's, I get what you're saying,
because that's kind of the space I'm in for sure.
Yeah, and it's not that those things won't happen.
It's that in order to free ourselves,
God says, release our sense of entitlement to it.
And then after that, we shift into the spirit.
And now that we're not attached to it anymore,
so often from that place, God's like,
okay, so now we're going to use it.
Now I'm going to show you how, what place,
how we can use it as a tool.
But it won't have you anymore.
You have it.
And you're using.
It, he said, just how I use everything for your good,
I'm now gonna teach you to be like me.
And I'm gonna now, you know, be like your father.
And I'm now gonna teach you how to use things for good
that were meant for evil,
because we look like our father.
But if we're not in that place,
if we're not in the spirit
and we're operating out of this sense of the fact
that where we're still trying to be good
to demand that according to the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, it's got to make sense.
God's like, you can't operate from my,
you're not operating in my character.
So you can't actually use it.
How can I say that in English?
It cannot be used as powerfully
from that place as it can,
if you are not enslaved by it anymore,
not identified by it anymore.
And now it's this thing apart from you
that you use for your purposes, you use for good.
But he said, I have to separate you from it first,
have to, you know, de-identify you from it.
And to show you, and it's not something he's doing,
it's something you,
it's already a state in which you're existing,
but it's coming into agreement with
and acknowledging that that's the case.
So the nice thing is everything's already been done.
It's just that we have to agree with it
in order for us to finally be able to operate in it.
So do we agree by, like, I guess part of me wonders,
okay, so then why do all these bad things happen?
Do all of them happen because God says,
I'm going to allow this based on, you know,
I created the enemy, he's fallen,
and he's providing a lot of these experiences
for people in the physical realm.
Is God saying, I know that all of this is going to happen,
and I already have plans to bring good from all of it,
just be in spirit with me and trust me?
Or is all that stuff just random
and God might not bring good out of it?
Oh no, God says that he promises
that he always brings good out of it
for those that love him
and are called according to his purpose.
And, but sin is here because everyone,
because man and Satan had free will.
Satan chose, but then remember that it's not Satan
who brought sin into the world.
It was mankind, it was Adam.
And he had, and so that's why Satan had to talk to Eve
and get her to use her own power against herself.
But the thing is that what God did and Jesus did
is he released us and he freed us
from being subject to and enslaved by sin.
Now we're not enslaved by sin
like they were back in the Old Testament,
except for the fact that we think we are.
So if we think we are,
we act like the people in the Old Testament
who were truly enslaved.
Therefore it manifests in our life as if we were enslaved.
But God says, yeah, but you're not.
So in order for it to finally manifest in your life
that you're not enslaved,
you just don't believe it anymore.
You just don't, you come out of agreement with it
and you come into agreement with what it is that I say.
So God didn't bring sin into the world.
He doesn't cause all of the problems that we experience,
all of the suffering, all the whatever.
So we get, it's surprising how,
and I've been very guilty of this myself,
that we so often get caught up in the whole thing
of like, did God allow and does God allow and whatever.
We have free will, which is what allowed him
to be freely, for him to be freely chosen in love by us
because he didn't force us to.
We choose of our own free will whether or not to love him.
And so anyway, in order to do that, he gave us free will.
So we get to choose whether or not we come to agreement
and he gives us such power and authority
that if we are out of agreement with the Lord,
well, then all of a sudden,
all of the sin starts manifesting to the world.
But the nice thing is God says
that even if other people sin against you,
because you are free and they don't,
they're not in alignment with, in agreement with me,
but you're in alignment and agreement with me.
Even if they sin against you, it cannot affect you
if you choose that you're in alignment
and in agreement with me.
You choose that you're not captive.
You choose that you're not, that you are free.
So sin can't overcome us.
Jesus gave up his life.
He said, into your hands, I commend my spirit, Lord.
Jesus gave up his life.
God didn't even take the life of Jesus,
meaning like God the Father,
didn't even take the life of Jesus.
Jesus, and that's one of the things
that God required of Jesus.
He's like, hey, look, got a partner with me on this,
and this is what I want you to do.
And so Jesus said, okay, Lord,
your will, not mine, be done.
So on the cross,
then he made that decision to go into Gethsemane,
then on the cross, he's like,
okay, into your hands, I commend my spirit.
Jesus had to give up his own life.
So God doesn't create all of these bad things
and just stand idly by while people are doing whatever,
when he's like, oh, well,
I could step in and control the situation and whatever.
No, we're the ones who are doing this.
This is our bedroom.
And God's like, y'all clean it up.
Now, he doesn't mean that like he's abandoned us,
but the heavens are the Lord's
and the earth was given to man.
It says that in the Bible.
He's like, okay, partner with me on this.
I want you to look like, I want you to make earth look,
I want you to look like your father.
And as your father, I've created these things in heaven
and I created heaven in a particular way.
I now want you to do the same thing to earth
that I did in heaven.
Look like me, bring dominion.
And I'm gonna coach you, teach you,
father you into how to do that.
But we've, we don't,
aren't taking our own sense of responsibility
for the fact that things happen the way that they do.
We look at God and like, God, you know,
I heard it described like this one time
and I really like it.
It's like, you know, God, why are there earthquakes?
When God's look at us going,
Ashley, why are there earthquakes?
That is your problem, that's your bedroom.
I'm fathering you into this
and how to clean up your bedroom.
Why aren't you cleaning it up?
Don't complain to me about the fact that you have messed up.
You know, you're the one who made your room messy.
He's like, I'll father you into it
and I'll teach you how to do it.
But don't blame me for the sin
that you brought into the world.
Like, I haven't abandoned you,
we're gonna do this together,
but I'm not causing these terrible, awful things.
And anyway, that's a very,
it's painting the idea of the very big broad brushstroke,
but I'm just trying to make a point.
So if he, I feel like though,
because he has authority over everything,
he allows things, I could be wrong,
but I feel like he allows things to happen
knowing the beginning from the end
and that he is gonna work everything together for good.
Or does he just like wait until something happens
and he's like, okay, you made this choice,
but I'm still gonna work it together for good.
Oh, you mean, okay, sorry, I was trying to,
I think I understand what you're asking.
So does he allow it versus like he just watches it,
watches it happen?
So it's very interesting thing.
There's an element in which he does,
I think that maybe he does touch things,
but kind of like a parent does with a really small child.
They control their child's environment
in order to make sure that it's a safe place.
But the point is to get the child to mature
to the point where they make certain decisions
for themselves and they're fathered into it slowly.
You know, okay, you need to wear these shoes.
I don't wanna wear these shoes.
You're going to wear these shoes.
I'm the mommy, I get to decide this is what you do.
You don't get to decide your shoes when you're little.
Then as you get older, then your mommy says,
okay, you can choose these shoes or these shoes.
They limit the choice.
They teach a child how to make choices.
They don't give them like five
because the child is just overwhelmed.
They're like, well, I don't know.
I wanna wear my pretty red sparkly shoes.
No, sweetie, we're going to play at the playground.
You can't wear those.
The mom gives them two different choices,
teaches them how to start making decisions.
Then as they get older, then they're like,
hey, I have been taught how to make practical decisions.
And so I look at my entire closet,
what shoes do I wanna wear?
And then eventually it gets to the point
where you can buy your own shoes.
And so there's a fathering into it.
So while we're being fathered into it,
there's an element of our environment
that he controls in order to make sure
that it's a safe place
that we don't destroy ourselves while we're learning.
However, even as much as we,
even for little kids, we don't control everything.
We don't micromanage everything.
And so even if they still have a will
and to say whatever they want,
mommy, I hate you.
Daddy is just like, what am I gonna take that from?
They're going to still do things.
So God's not gonna prevent us from saying.
I hate you, you know, just like we don't prevent our children from doing that.
So there's, it's this, it's not this perfect formula strategy, it's all neat and tidy.
It's like this, it's a relationship and relationship is hard, hard to describe.
So there's an element in which yes, he provides safe environment and there's an element of
quote unquote control, but it's not control like puppets or robots or something like that.
The whole purpose is to father us into it.
So and there's a level to which all of us are given the opportunity at our free will
to make choices because God will not force himself.
Like for instance, we don't force a child to stop crying because that would suffocate
it.
You know, you know, the only way to get a child to stop crying, you know, unless you're
like trying to coerce it and trying to teach them how to stop crying, but we had put a
pillow over their mouth or something.
It's the same way.
He's not going to force if we're just really exerting our, our, our, our free will, there's,
there's certain levels, certain degrees to which he'll go and certain degrees he won't.
Like some people still kill themselves on drugs or like, God, you allowed it to happen.
Where were you?
Aren't you responsible for this?
No.
He provided them ample opportunity.
He provided them certain opportunities, choices.
He talked to their spirit.
He gave them opportunity and they continue to be very dogmatic in what it is that they
chose.
So anyway, and then, and then prayer, like how much does prayer change the situation?
Like when you pray to God and ask him, does that have a massive effect on whether he's
going to come in and make a change?
Um, yes, but I guess I don't understand really what, what you mean.
Um, I mean, cause yes, we, he is extremely affected by us.
I mean, so much so that it says in the Bible, it says in song of Solomon that he has to
turn his eyes away from us because we overwhelm him so much.
Um, we, we greatly affect him, but, and so when we pray, yes, we can move the heart of
God.
And it says that God, it says multiple times in the scripture that God repented, meaning
that he stopped doing one thing and he decided to do something else because someone petitioned
him to do so.
The people of Nineveh, when they repented, then God said he changed his mind.
And then when Moses, um, said, uh, God was going to wipe out the children of Israel and
Moses said, no Lord, please don't.
Um, and Jesus and Lord said, no, seriously out of the way.
And I said, no, seriously, Lord, you know, protect your reputation.
And God said, okay, fine.
You know, I won't.
So he, he does allow ourselves to be greatly affected by him.
We can pray and we can ask that he changed what it was that he was going to do.
Um, but he doesn't always do that.
I mean, it depends on the situation.
So I guess, did I answer your question or were you asking a different way?
No, I think that answered it.
I think I just wanted to understand how much of a difference that would make if somebody
was in a really tough situation, but they were praying for God to come in and intervene,
like how often he does or not even how often, cause I don't think we can calculate how often,
but you know, how willing is he to come in and say, okay, and then what, what's the right
setup for him to come in and say, okay, I'm going to do this.
Is it full surrender?
Is it just because he feels like it, like Paul on the road to Damascus or like, I don't
know.
I think I'm, and I know I'm in a place of like understanding and knowing, and I know
that's the soul.
Um, so it's like allowing the spirit to come in and cover all of this knowledge that I
want and it's tricky.
Knowledge is where we're used to feeling safe.
So if I have knowledge, then I feel safe.
So it's like, I want to feel safe.
So we go to knowledge.
It's, it's, it's a habit, you know, and there's, and, and God's fine with that.
You know, God's fine giving us knowledge and all of that.
I just mentioned that it's, it's, that's, that's why we do this.
We're wanting to feel, we're wanting to feel safe.
Like how safe can I feel with the Lord?
Can I, can I, do I choose to fully abandon myself?
We're trying to reduce the risk.
We're trying to make the gap that we're going to have to leap.
We're going to have to leap, but we're trying to make the gap of, of having to leap shorter
and shorter and shorter so that it's not as much of a risk.
And sometimes God's like, nope, can't close the gap anymore.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
It's like, yeah, no, I appreciate everything you've shared.
I appreciate it.
I think I'm still in this place of wanting to bring that spirit down to cover up the
soul and the physical, to have authority over the soul and the physical so that I can live
more and more free.
And there are these kind of competing commitments where I'm more committed.
to wanting to tell my story and wanting it to make a difference in people's
lives and help them. Whereas God might be saying I just want you to live in the
spirit and you're gonna make more of a difference if you're there than you will
if you're trying to figure all this out and share this and maybe like what you
said if I shifted to the spirit then he'll start to release more of his plan
for me but he's just waiting for me to surrender fully. Yeah so I like what you
were saying and the you know it doesn't mean that God's not going to use it and
that God's not going to do all of the things that you're talking about what
he's concerned about is and is when our identities wrapped up in it and it
matters to us and so often he'll wait and he won't allow something a lot of
that's kind of a weird way to word it but let's let me just word it that way
there's just be faster to explain he won't allow and something and he's like
no we're not going to use it yet and we're not going to and it can't move
forward until you aren't identified with it anymore because if you if you if it
moves forward while you're identified with it it's gonna either create
destruction or it's gonna keep you in greater captivity and I want you to live
in freedom and so he's like so let's release you really separate your
identity from it first then you can move forward in it in a very and we can use
it in a healthy way but right now it's too attached to it kind of like some
people God's just there's so many things that were our identities is attached to
certain things and God's like okay work we can't and we're just going to I'm not
I don't want to move you in a ministry like he does this with people in
ministries I don't want to move you into ministry until it no longer matters to
you I don't want you to get married until it no longer matters to you I
don't want you to have children until it no longer matters to you because he said
because some people it matters to them too much and that their identity is all
wrapped up in it and they're enslaved by it and God is much more interested in
our freedom than in our then what it is that we want because if we don't if we
don't have it if if the thing that we gain is not gained in freedom it's
destructive and there is in death and not life in it so it doesn't yeah anyway
so it's not like you're we're giving it what it's not that God's not going to
use it it's that our identities wrapped up in it I have a pastor that used to be
at our church and he's not anymore he went and branched off and started his
own church and it was kind of a little of an interesting situation but he has a
lot of that he has a lot of his ego wrapped up in how many people attend on
a Sunday morning how many new people they can get in growing his church to
two services and then getting enough money and building but it's all it's all
wrapped up in ego and that's exactly what his situation is I think is he is
he's wondering why his church isn't growing and I've always said to my
friend who so like the people that I'm close to who started the church that I
go to when he was working for them I always had these feelings but I never
talked about it until she confided some things in me about her relationship with
him and I was like yeah that's what I've kind of thought for so long that you
know now his church isn't growing and he's concerned and he's and I'm like he
just hasn't let go of this desire to have so many bodies and it's not about
him being set free it's about well he went through trauma when he was young
with his dad and I'm like it's probably he hasn't fully healed from that and
there's still this I need to prove myself thing I need to have all of these
things in place and then I'll feel good about myself but he's not really living
in the spirit and you know I look at him as a more extreme example but I look at
myself as an example of that too it's like I'm sure even though I've worked on
that a lot and I'm really aware of it I'm sure there's still parts of me that
I'm wrapped up in wanting certain things to turn out a certain way so that I feel
like I've been in my purpose I feel like all this happened to me for a reason I
feel like I'm reaching some imaginary level I'm supposed to reach on this
earth so that God's gonna be proud of me mm-hmm yeah yeah exactly no that's
exactly it yeah yeah that's it that's a good it's a good point and then and what
we often do is we shift our identity from one thing to another like our
identity could be in you know what it is you were trying to find a new age and
then it
was, oh, now I'm a new ager who's been saved,
and I'm a Christian.
So that's some kind of an interesting identity.
And then now I'm trying to find identity, which
I'm now in this cult. And then leaving the cult,
I now need a new sense of identity,
which would be to create purpose out
of what it is I went through.
We're always trying to find something
to tell us who it is that we are,
or how it is that our life has, and what
it is that we have to offer in our contribution
is valuable to the Lord.
So where is it that God is seeing value in me?
God's seeing value in the fact that I've
been through all of this, but I chose him anyway.
And now I can talk to other people about it.
And therefore, I can help other people through their trauma,
just like the Lord helped me.
It's all of these ways in which we're trying to understand
where, and we're trying to look for, OK, why does God,
God says that he loves me, why would he love me?
Well, he loves me because of this.
He loves me, and we're attaching it to all of these things.
And God's like, no, I love you because you're just you,
not because you like Mexican food,
not because you make these choices,
not because you look like this, not
because you married this person.
It's who it is that we are in the spirit, which
is perfectly sufficient.
And we then have to choose that we can't see on this earth
the reason for which anything that can tell us
why God loves us, why God likes us,
it's just an outward expression of the fact that he does.
But none of it can tell us why.
It's interesting.
This whole conversation is so interesting
because you shared the pain in your experience
of almost like bridging that gap and jumping over to just
releasing it and letting it go.
And as I'm thinking about even doing that, it's terrifying.
It's so painful to think about letting go of that
and just feels like the day I became a Christian,
when I'm like, I'm going to give God control over my life.
And I'm like, I really haven't given him full control.
I've given him control over a lot of things.
But then there's some things I just want to control.
And for me to let go of all of that
and think that he's not going to use it the way
that I want him to use it is like uber painful
to think about.
Like, it almost feels impossible in a way
to not have my identity in that because then I
don't know who I am.
But I know who I am in Christ.
But it's like, I feel like it's not enough to stand on.
Yeah, yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.
That is exactly it.
Because if we knew that we could stand on it,
we would have done it.
We don't feel like it'll sustain.
We don't feel like it'll hold us up.
We don't feel that it's sufficient.
And we feel that it's going to fall from underneath it,
that the bottom is going to fall out from underneath us.
But that's exactly it.
That's why we don't make the choice.
It's like, because Lord, I can't see it on the other side.
That's why it's faith.
It's because if we could see it, we would do it.
The terrifying thing is that we can't see it.
It does not make any sense whatsoever.
God's like, exactly, just do it.
How did you do it, then?
How did you get to the point where you were able to just say,
OK, I'm choosing it?
Well, I went through a lot of stuff
that I pray and ask the Lord you will not have to do.
A lot of anger, a lot of continuing
to just struggle and battle and insist that it was my way.
I was constantly trying to find another way to do it.
Another way that didn't hurt so bad,
another way that made me feel a little better,
made me feel a little safer, trying to reduce
that gap before I jumped.
Because I felt, oh, Lord, I'll jump eventually.
I understand you want me to jump.
Because for a while, I didn't want to jump at all,
and I just wanted him to do it for me.
Lord, push me into the fire.
I don't want to jump in the fire,
but I will allow you to push me in.
So for a while, it would be like that.
And eventually got to the point where I realized, OK,
God's not going to do it.
I have to do it.
But I was trying to, I was, but by the end, I knew that,
and I know I'm mixing metaphors here, but like to go to a gap,
it was.
or I'm having to like jump over or whatever,
I eventually got to the point of,
okay, apparently I'm the one who has to do it myself.
But then I kept focusing,
and we're talking about for years,
on trying to close the gap
so that I would only have to jump this far and not this far
so that the risk wasn't as high
and the gap just wouldn't move
no matter how many years I went
and how much I battled
and how much I cried and how much I was angry
and pounded the gates of heaven or whatever else.
And I just had to, I finally just had to choose.
So I, that I, so you're asking how I did it.
My point is that nothing worked.
I just had to do it.
I, there was nothing that,
I kept waiting for something else.
I kept waiting for it to be easier.
I kept waiting for more motivation.
So really the motivation that did increase
was the amount of pain was so bad.
It was, oh my word, it was awful.
And that was the only thing that changed over the years
was that the amount of pain increased.
So remember that it's the kindness of God
that leads to repentance,
meaning it's the kindness of God
that calls us to a new season,
that we desire just to repent from one season,
meaning that we stopped doing this
and we turned towards this,
even if this wasn't a sin, you know,
we're just leaving this season,
we're turning 180 degrees.
It's the kindness of God that leads us into new seasons.
So if God's kindness wasn't good enough,
because no matter how much he loved me
and showed how he was good,
I wasn't grabbing ahold of it
and claiming it to be drawn to it.
God's like, okay, fine.
I guess that you're just going to resist it so long
that what's going to finally be your motivation,
if you're refusing to allow my kindness
to be your motivation,
your pain is going to be your motivation.
That your desire, your desperate desire
to escape where you are,
which is a monster that you've been feeding all this time,
by the way, Ashley,
is going to have to build to be so great
before you allow yourself to jump.
So I just recommend to you that you just choose
in full abandonment in the pain that you're in
without waiting for it to get worse.
That's what I would recommend.
And I do not recommend that lightly
because I'm fully aware of what you have to do.
I remember how that feels.
It was life and death.
My body felt like it was going to die
because it's so attached to the soul.
And it was awful.
And I'm in the middle of the road driving.
And I literally, I remember thinking this,
it was so desperate.
I remember thinking, okay, Ashley,
if you give it up right now on the drive,
I was on a major freeway.
I mean, I live in Dallas, major huge highway.
And I thought, okay, so if I give this up to the Lord,
what's going to happen to my car?
Am I going to die?
And then it's going to let you veer off
and it's going to hit all of these other cars
and they're going to die.
I mean, it was like that.
I mean, I wasn't expecting the rapture or something,
but I'm telling you what,
my body was that attached to the fact
that I thought I was going to die.
And I made the choice.
So what happened after?
Oh, well, I made the choice.
I just, I, it wasn't just that I told,
it's not just me telling God, okay, God, I choose.
No, I had to shift.
I had to move it inside and take ownership of it
and throw myself into the fire or leap across the gap,
whichever metaphor you want to use, inside.
And when I did, and I just gave it all up,
forget what I'm telling the Lord.
I just, I just had to do the thing
without even talking to him.
I just did it inside.
And I remember immediately, immediately,
there was peace, immediate stillness
because I shifted into rest.
I was releasing and I didn't,
and God hadn't taught me about the principle of rest yet.
I immediately shifted into rest.
I immediately shifted into peace.
Everything inside me went still.
And I remember thinking, I'm still alive.
God's right.
There really is life on the other side.
And I hadn't felt that, I don't want to say empty,
but that still and that calm inside for I,
since I don't know when.
And I remember thinking when I.
Did it. I did not realize that it would could be this easy. That's all I had to do was let go because by easy. I mean, simple mean like it wasn't complicated. I didn't have to do all this stuff. I had to just stop doing
And I remember thinking, I cannot believe that all of these years and by that time it had been
It had been 12 years
And, and I, and I'm two men 12 years that I've been just like, and I technically it was longer than that. But it's been 12 years since I'd started depression.
And this time that I'm talking to you about was after I had been I had was no longer depressed and hadn't been depressed for several years. I'm still, it was, it was that it was really, really bad and I wouldn't even depressed.
But yeah, I just thought I have not felt this still in this piece and I cannot believe it. It was this simple and I bought all
I've expended all of my mental, emotional, physical and spiritual energy towards something that only required this simple thing for me to do. And I knew why I hadn't done it. But once I did it. It's kind of like, why didn't I do this earlier.
Understand, I was still in the same situation. I was in, I still had to go to the same work. I went to still go back to the same relationships that and deal with the same relationship issues. I've been dealing with it. These circumstances in my environment did not change in that moment, but I did. I was finally free.
And, and then just God began to move me from there, but it was fast.
But God began to, you know, I had a lot of issues after that, but that was the big one. That was, that was the big final letting go and complete abandonment.
Because I kept demanding that he makes sense and that he and that he reconcile and make restitution for what had happened to me.
And for what he'd done to me or what other people had done to me, or I don't know, whatever. And then at least make sense of it, even if, even if he didn't apologize or whatever, which sounds terrible that we say this about the Lord, but trust me, I'm just acknowledging the fact that that we all have what we all think and and and I just had to let it all go and just let it all be. And anyway, it is that. So that's what happened on the other side. Everything went still immediately.
And I thought, okay, so I drove in and I thought, this is amazing. Again, I still remember taking the off ramp and thinking in that piece and thinking, wow, this is great. And I didn't feel joyful.
I just felt I just felt at peace. Like, okay, no, no longer any strife. Just let it all go. And so now I'm just gonna put one foot in front of the other and I go to work.
But at least I'm not in torment. At least I'm not living in my own hell.
So I wouldn't happy I what I still didn't know how I could trust God. I still didn't believe you love me all those things, but I had let go.
And then did you eventually after letting go. Did it take long for you to see
Oh, aren't you kidding. I'm still learning that. I'm still struggling with that. I'm still learning all of that. So yeah, it did. But there were certain ways in which I moved very fast in which I felt his love and acceptance and very quickly. But yeah, I'm still I'm still on that journey.
Um, have you heard the story about Chuck eager. I think that's how you say his name. He was a pilot who broke the sound barrier.
I well I don't know. I don't remember if I have or not. But before you tell it to me. Do you mind if I use the restroom again really fast.
Oh, no, go ahead. No problem. Sorry to interrupt.
Well, that's okay.
Okay, everybody.
This is a test.
Okay, all right. I might not tell it 100% accurately, but it totally goes along with
what you're talking about. So I'd have to go back and read it again. But basically,
Chuck Yeager, he was the first person to break the sound barrier. I think it was like the
late 40s or early 50s. And I guess apparently, there were all of these different pilots who
wanted to break the sound barrier. And they would approach the sound barrier, and their
plane would start shaking really hard. So they were shaking, shaking, shaking, shaking,
and they would always pull back to stay safe. And then they would end up dying. Because
of the way that the plane was going. And like the way they pulled back, they would end up
it just like, I don't remember exactly what happened, but apparently, they wouldn't survive.
So there was a real fear. So Chuck wanted to do this as well. And he got to this point
where he finally was shaking, shaking, shaking. And he's like, I have a choice, I can either
pull back and risk my life, or I can just go through. And he just went through. And
he went through and it was like, all of a sudden, he broke the sound barrier. And there
was like, peace. There's like no noise, everything was like still. And it's such a neat story
of how he was the first person to break the sound barrier. And I guess there's like a
sonic boom involved in it too. So I guess there are all these like scientific things
that I don't quite understand. But if you looked it up, you'd probably find the story.
But it's, it's really cool how it's just that feeling of, we want to pull back, we want
to stay safe. We don't want to, we're approaching something that looks really scary. And we're
like, nope, nope, I'm putting the brakes on, which kind of as we're talking about, it results
in death more than life, because it's not really letting you hear it. So it's an interesting
analogy for just like...
It is, it's a very good one. I'm gonna have to remember that one to explain it.
Yeah. And I'm sure if you googled like Chuck, Y-E-A-G-E-R, or like, breaking the sound barrier
or whatever it is, you probably find the story on Google. If you wanted to tell it
a bit better than I did with more accuracy, but that's the gist of what I've heard anyway.
And it's like, it's just really neat to, to think about, yeah, if you do push through,
there is that on the other side. And how scary it is to push through and believe that like,
it's almost like, it's interesting, a lot of the stuff that I talked to you about, like
it came from when I was in the group, because the group, they taught a lot of cool things.
And I experienced some massive breakthroughs. But one of the things was like, letting go
was a lot about letting go. And it was hard, because there was...
I'm surprised you haven't been more triggered than you have in this rest of Jess's book.
I think I have been, but I think it's been triggered in the way that I'm starting to
understand the biblical rationale. And I've always thought the stuff that was taught in
the group was useful, the exercises, everything. The problem was the leader and how she ran
it and her relationship with me, which apparently, I don't know why I was one of the people that
was chosen to go through this experience by her. But whatever she saw in me, she knew
that I was going to be very devoted and be controlled and all of those things. But what
was actually taught is the beauty of it. And that's why cults are so difficult, because
there can be a lot of good, but then there's so much behind the scenes that's not good.
And one of the exercises was that, they used to have a trapeze where you'd actually have
to let go and like jump to a trapeze that was hanging in the air, you'd be standing
on a platform, you'd have to jump and catch it. The one I did was the zipline where you
have to choose to let go and go down the zipline, which is also scary because you're up like
30 feet. And so a lot of it is just about one of the other things you just mentioned,
which was not a negative trigger, at least right now. They taught this thing called this
is it and I'm satisfied, which was where you don't hold on to the idea that you need to
control it or it should look a certain way. You just basically say, this is it and I'm
satisfied. And that is supposed to be a way of saying, I can't control it, I can't change
it. And once you say that, it puts you in a space of creativity where you can actually
be in a good space afterwards, instead of being stuck in, I want it to look this way.
so much of what you said is a biblical version of that but I like that it is a biblical version
because it's making more sense to me and you know I think what triggers me sometimes is that I don't
I don't get to be involved in that anymore um that there were so many great things I learned
but I can never go back and yeah I know God wants me to move forward like I don't want to look back
I don't want to be a pillar of salt I want to be moving forward and I think what you're showing me
is helping me move forward from it and springboard from it and use the good stuff I got from it but
now applying it back to the Bible and I understand in some of this stuff there will be triggers for
me and I feel like you're a safe place so I don't mind sharing those things with you um and I think
God is still like chipping away some of the damage that was done there and freeing me of it
and also showing me the good of what I learned and how it is going back to the Bible in some ways
but they've kind of corrupted it into a new age kind of place where it's like we just take out
the Jesus part of it and make new rules about it and it's still based on these amazing truths from
the Bible but we just don't talk about well they would read from the Bible sometimes they would
actually bring the Bible into it but not with all of the activities by any means but a lot of it was
about breaking through and being set free and the exercises are amazing for that being at peace there
was one exercise where we it was called palms together palms apart and you literally sit there
you don't know what you're doing you sit there for an hour on a chair with all these other people
around you with your eyes closed and they're literally the guy at the front is who was like
um Jamie's best friend who quit um remember I told you that couple that quit he yeah quit
he was the one standing at the front he was a right-hand man and he was saying palms together
and you'd have to put your palms together palms apart palms together palms apart and he said it
over and over again for an hour so you're sitting there and you're doing it and you're wondering
what's going on you want to understand it you want to know why and have rationale but the whole
point of the exercise was how do you show up when you can't control when you don't understand
when things aren't working you know the way you want you want to do something else and you can't
you're stuck so for me I mean I prayed I took the opportunity to pray um and other people got
really stressed and angry and agitated and I was like just praying um and it was the purpose of it
was like how do you show up when you can't control things and you don't know why so again the purpose
in some of the exercises was so great but it there's still a little bit of a disconnect there
because I'm understanding more about how it applies to the bible and I don't find that the exercises
themselves were as traumatic as she was she's the trauma um the exercises weren't super well the
way she facilitated some of them were traumatic but because her spirit that was that was the
problem you know just like our spirits are the thing or it we're supposed to be like getting
spirits so it's spirits that cause problems it's not what it is that we do that's the mechanics
through which a spirit corrupted or not I don't want to say corrupted but a spirit moves so so
yeah so the the thing itself can be good because God created goodness but the people who are in
charge of that thing or who can manipulate that thing that's what turns it into something different
yeah it's the spirit that um that brings life or death or the lack of spirit of the lack of
God's spirit that brings um death that's what it is so because that's what death is it's the lack of
lack of God's spirit in it so which is why the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because
it's separated from the spirit of God is the life source it has nothing but death in it because it
death is simply on the absence kind of like darkness is the absence of light death is the absence of
of God so well that makes sense that's good it's so true yeah so it's it's it's I can see why you
would think it would trigger me more and I think if I did this six months or a year ago it would
have but I also think it's giving me insight into which is my word for the year insight it's giving
me insight into where this actually comes from and not even that I need to make sense of it but in my
spirit it's starting to feel cleaner and more congruent with who he is instead of me being so
held back by the trauma of it because it was how can something be so good and so bad at the exact
same time like have you ever experienced
thought where something just so good and so not good at the exact same time. It's like,
how does that make any sense? Yeah. Well, and before I talk about that,
I want to mention something before I forget. I think that you understand this from me so far,
but I just want to reiterate, I don't intend to villainize knowledge or understanding or our soul
or anything like that. It's the fact that God's just like, hey, you can stay there if you want,
you can need knowledge, you can need understanding, et cetera. But he said,
I want you to understand that you're more free. You have the opportunity to shift into greater
freedom. And that's what the whole rest intensive is all about is like, is, hey,
for the people who want to shift into greater freedom in more areas, but understand that I'm
not ever trying to villainize or condemn for operating and needing knowledge and wanting
knowledge and wanting understanding. I do the same thing. It's just that I always remind us
and point our eyes towards the fact that we can have more freedom if we choose to step into it.
So I just wanted to mention that and make sure that everyone always knows. I'm not trying to
condemn anyone if they need knowledge. I just always want to remind them, hey, by the way,
you do have more freedom if you choose to step into it, but you can stay where you are if you
want. You can operate where you are and all that. But what you were asking about just now or talking
about the whole, the good and evil at the same time is because our God is the one who created
the world. Our God is the one who created everything. The devil did not create these
principles. He just, the life force by which the principles were supposed to operate has been
removed from those tools. There's nothing but death in its place. This fake version of energy,
fuel, life source, it has been added in order to keep it going. So it's almost like it has to
operate on its own in its own mechanics as opposed to being able to function just according to the
way that it was intended to function because it doesn't need to provide for or protect itself
because it has the life source that provides, protects it and provides a covering for it.
So it can just be, it can just function on its own. It's removing it, the protection,
the kingly provision, and it believes it's abandoned. I mean, even the principle is like
the principle and this, that's a wonderful law that God created to function in a specific way
now believes that it has been abandoned by its king, by its Lord, and it has to function on its
own and has to figure out on its own how to accomplish something. And sure, there's
no wonder. I mean, yeah, that's just corrupted and it's terrifying. And so that's why something
can feel so good and so evil at the same time is like our God is the one who created it. So it's a
good thing. But it's, it's not functioning in the capacity that was intended to function.
So yeah, it and it brings and therefore it's bringing death, which is evil. So yeah, it can
be both good and evil at the same time. That makes sense. And with the knowledge thing that
you just said, I think for me, the pendulum had swung all the way over here. So when you talk
about knowledge, it's getting it to like equilibrium. Oh, okay. Good. Good. So I think I
was too much on the side of needing to know, needing knowledge and understanding to make
sense of something. Therefore, I felt good about it in my spirit, which I think just something
outside of us to give us something, which means that we believe that we're enslaved.
They're enslaved. We need to do something on the outside to save us. Yeah. And I think,
I think the disconnect for me still is like, how, how can my spirit just be okay, not knowing
and just trusting and just being okay with the way things work out. I think that's where I'm not
able to access that yet. That space of not needing to make sense of it, not needing to see that
there's a purpose and an understanding, not needing to justify something by saying, oh,
I can see why that happened because God's going to do this or because God did this, or, you know,
or there's a greater explanation in the world about, you know, how, you know, what God's doing
in the world and, you know, when the second coming happens and all this stuff. So for me to justify
it and understand it, it's like, oh, okay. That gives me peace. I don't know how to have peace
without that. Yeah. So you bring up a very good point and you articulate things very well. And you
ask amazing questions. You're extremely intelligent and you really dig really, really deep.
which in my opinion means that you have,
that you are more in agreement with your spirits
than you know, because the things that you are saying
can only really be understood through the spirit
who knows all things and has all truths.
So you are, that you're saying, you know,
I don't understand because I'm still at the place
where I need it.
Exactly, we have to, that's why it's so hard to give up
because we need it.
So we're giving, in other words,
we need it to provide and protect for ourselves.
We need something, so therefore I'm going to
make provision for it.
And God's like, no, abandon that and choose that.
I, Aunt Dawson, choose that I'm going to provide
for what you feel that you need.
So it's that kind of a, it's that radical of a decision
that we're talking about, is needing something
and just abandoning it.
And choosing that God provides for that need in his way,
even though we are looking at it going,
I have no idea how you can provide for this need.
No idea.
And there's so many stories in the Bible about that.
And I go back to, we talked once about the death
of a vision thing and about how it's like,
I have a vision and I need to almost let it die
and die not to completely die, but like,
what's God's plan, not what's my plan, pardon?
Yeah, give up your sense of entitlement and ownership of it.
Yeah, so it's not giving up the dream,
just giving up ownership of it.
Yeah, because he'll fulfill it in his perfect way.
But I mean, we look at all the stories in the Bible
about the impossible.
How is this actually gonna happen?
Hello.
I know, I'm sorry, just to say.
Sorry, I'm at my parents' house
and my grandmom lives here too, she's 85.
And so she decided she's gonna go to Chick-fil-A
and ask me if I wanted something.
So I'm sorry, she knocked on my door
and that's why Dasa was just like, Dasa, can you hear me?
Oh no, that's okay.
I have yet to try Chick-fil-A, we don't have them in Canada.
Oh my God.
I know, I know.
Okay, that's sad.
I have yet to try Chick-fil-A,
we don't have them in Canada.
Oh my God.
I know, I will.
I know, I know, I will.
Okay, that's sad.
The plan is to, hello, sweetie.
I thought if she was making noise,
she needed to just say hi.
Hello, sweet.
But yeah, like the stories in the Bible,
like if you look at Abraham and Sarah, right?
Or even like the disciples with Jesus when he died
and they're like, what?
Like, we thought.
Or even like a grain of wheat planted in the ground
and it dies and then it grows, right?
It's like certain things need to be let go of
and trust that God is going to do the impossible.
I get to trust that he put all of this on my heart
to do, to create, to spend hundreds of hours creating this
to make a difference.
And because he put it on my spirit,
I believe he's gonna do something good with it.
I believe that I need to somehow be in the middle
to make sure that he does something good with it.
To like, okay, God, you're giving me this,
so I have to do something, right?
I have to be there to make sure
that we're really going to work.
I got to come with the middle man.
I know, you need me, Lord.
This is how we're gonna do it.
Don't you know this will mess it up
if we do it any other way?
It's so weird, because it's like on one hand,
you trust that he's gonna do the best job possible,
but on the other hand, I'm like, but what if I let go of this?
It's like, I don't know, I don't know.
I mean, maybe it's similar to you right now
in your, let's say your finances.
Right now, you're in a sense depending on people
to give what they feel the Lord is telling them to give.
And you are trusting that he's your protection,
your provision, and whatever,
he's gonna speak to their spirit,
and they're gonna feel what they need to give,
and it's gonna provide,
and you're gonna get provided for in other ways.
But you had to choose to say that,
to be like, you know what,
I'm gonna be in this space of trusting,
and do you know what I mean?
Does that sound like,
does that align with what we're talking about?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That, um, yeah, that was the Lord. Well, I need this and I need this and,
and, um, and that's one of the things that I had to talk to Tim about, you know, the past
past few weeks is, is reminding him, okay, actually can't say that you need it because
God provides for your needs, um, without you even asking for them. Um, so you just come to
agreement with the fact that if there's something you need, God will provide it without you even
bringing up the subject. Um, so now I can bring up the subject, that's fine. But one of the things
that he's walking me into is to remind me, actually don't have to even bring up the subject.
So yeah, I just, I just choose that if he says that he provides for me, then I'm going to agree
with the fact that he provides for me. Um, and it's, um, and I'm just going to abandon myself
to it, even if I'm not, even if I see, okay, so here's what's happened before. Um,
what's happened before, um, at various times is, uh, there will be, um, deadlines that come and go
past the deadlines and like, Lord, you know, that, that I don't, I don't understand.
It's like, is it because Lord wouldn't provision look like you provided by a deadline? And then I
remember no, because the world does not tell me what it is that I need. The world does not dictate
to me whether or not God came through. God is the world does not dictate to me and tell me the truth
of the situation. I, I mana, um, God tells me what the truth of this situation is. And then I, by
coming into agreement with it, it will manifest into the earth. And I don't know how it's going
to manifest. I don't know if it's going to manifest as, um, uh, you know, like say for
instance, if it was a deadline for, um, I don't know, a, um, what would I, what would I want to
do a deadline for? So I don't know, some relationship issue, like Lord, I needed such and such
relationship issue dealt with by a particular deadline. And there was a very serious reason
why Lord, this is the deadline. It can't be, or let's say a bill, you know, bill built that.
Cause that's easy to understand, you know, Oh Bill, you know, Lord, this deadline. And we're
like, God, that's very obvious. It's cut and dry. No, it is to the world. It is because we
were taught that way, but God's like, no, I provide for you. It doesn't matter. Deadlines
come and go. If I say you're on your provision, I am. And the fact that it, that the deadline
came and went without me giving you a particular monetary amount by that deadline does not dictate
that I am or am not providing for you. And you just always choose it. So it, so it, I, I cannot
look at my circumstances and tell him I need this Lord. God's the one who tells me what it is that,
that God always provides for all of my needs. So if something happens a particular way,
then apparently I didn't need it. I didn't need it in the way that I thought that I did.
So I allow him to, to dictate truth. I don't look at circumstances in order to compare God
as the, as the standard by which I'm comparing God and, um, and understanding his character.
I understand his character by what he said, not by what I see, not by what I manifest.
I enjoy how he manifests it. I don't look at it as a way to prove to myself that, okay,
so when he said he loved me, I can see that he really did. You never get caught up in that of
like, oh, he didn't, he didn't give me the bill for this date. He didn't give me the money for
this date. But then all of a sudden I called the company and the company said that actually they
were going to overcharge me. And I didn't owe that anyway. And then you're like, oh, that's what God
was doing. And like, you kind of justify, have you ever done that where you just justify it that way?
Or are you out of that space altogether now? Um, oh no, no, I'm not at any of this yet.
Or God still moves me into greater and greater measures. Uh, but I have noticed that there's
certain, um, I am in rest in more often than I used to be and viewing the situations from a
place of rest and trusting him more often than I used to, et cetera. Um, and to greater degrees.
Um, so yeah, sometimes that it'll be all run up against a, uh, so yeah, so in the past,
well, I say in the past, no, if they said, Hey, you know, we were going to have overcharged you
anyway. So that's it. That's the means of God's provision. Um, so that's how I view it. I'm like,
okay, there's, there's God's provision. It just wasn't in, in money. It was in, it was,
he provided for the situation and through a, through a glitch. So through a circumstance
or somebody else's clerical error, I don't know, but that's still God's provision. But, um, what's
very interesting.
interesting and challenging is when, for my soul, not for God, not for the situation,
but for my soul, is if a deadline comes and goes and there is no, I can't see reconciliation
to close out the issue. And if something goes on for a while, then I'm like, I'm still not
seeing it manifest. I'm still not seeing it manifest, but I don't, I don't, I did no long,
I try to not take this and that's what I, what I'm at, which again is something that
I'm still, I still am a learning, or choosing, is to not take the manifestation and determine
that God's character, that it's saying something about God's character. I still choose no God's
character is such and such. I'm just letting him know, hey, by the way, Lord, that this hasn't
manifested in the way that I expected it to. And by the time that I expected it to, in a way that
I expected it to, but, um, so I'm just telling you for my soul is struggling here, Lord, but I'm,
I'm willfully and intentionally and deliberately choosing that if you say that you've, that I am
currently in a state of provision, not that you've got plans for me to provide for me and I just need
to hang on. No, I am never without his provision. I'm never ever in an existence in which I am not
being provided for and Lord, that's what I choose. So, um, yeah, no, no, it does. And I, I appreciate
all, I think you have a lot of wisdom that you've shared and I appreciate it. And I, uh, I wanted to
ask you too, did you, I, I sent you a payment, um, on the weekend. Did you receive it? I did. I did.
Thank you. Yeah.
My bank was showing that it had sent in PayPal, but it didn't, it hasn't shown up in my bank account
that it sent, which is weird.
Yes. Sorry about that. It's because I didn't see it until this morning. So I was, and I, and I was
going to, um, I was going to move it to my bank account today because then it'll show that it
removes it from your bank account. So I apologize. I don't mean to like hold, you know, hold it
because then, yeah, obviously it leads to you in limbo like, well, I need to make sure that this, that
I know not to spend the money because I've already committed it somewhere. So I'm fully aware of that
situation. I apologize. I just thought this morning, then I had to jump on a client call. Then I
jumped on another, this one with you. And so I just haven't transferred it yet. Sorry.
Yeah, no, that's okay. I, I just wanted to make sure, cause PayPal is a little new for me. So I
didn't understand when it, well, it's, I have an old account, but I haven't used it very much. So
when I send it sometimes electronically, things can be a little funny. So I didn't know if it was
like, they hold it for a certain amount of days or why it hadn't come out. So now that you've
explained it, you need to accept it before it comes out. I wasn't sure if that was the case or if it
just didn't send properly. So,
yeah, yeah, no, no. I've even been in that situation before as well, where someone didn't move the
money for probably a week or something like that. And I had to constantly make sure that, that I
remembered that, that, that money, even though it was still sitting in my bank account, had already
been committed and that at any point PayPal was going to pull it. So, so yeah.
Okay, beautiful. No, that's good. That's good to know. I just wanted to double check. But yeah,
yeah, no, I appreciate you very much. And I appreciate our conversations. And yeah, you helped
me, you helped me gain a lot of insight into what's all going on that I, you know, I, it's
interesting, because I, like I said, I prayed, I was like, God, I need, I need somebody to help me
understand some more of these things. And I am going to your word. And I'm, I'm teaching people
about the things that I know. And I feel like I'm at a point where I can understand a lot, but
there's a lot that I feel like I'm missing at the moment. And I'm not sure how to bridge the gap. So
it's funny, he sent someone else into my life that I thought was the person to help me. And she ended
up not being the person and I was pretty upset because I thought, Wow, God, I thought this is
what you had for me. It just seemed to all work together so well. And, and it didn't. And, and
then you came in and I was like, Okay, so God, that I felt like that situation was to teach me
something or to, you know, just be okay with what was, but then he had the right situation come in.
And the funny thing was that you two have the exact same name.
Really?
So it was like, so Jason, my husband, we're
Because I'm like, yeah, that one Ashley didn't work out. But I'm like, I just, I got a new Ashley. And this one is like actually the Ashley that was supposed to learn
That's so funny. Well, there's, there's a couple of different stories I could tell you about that one is a friend of mine had was extremely betrayed by a friend named Ashley.
Growing up, I mean like betray like best friends and betrayed. And so when, when she and I became friends.
It was a while before I found out that this friend that had betrayed her that she'd had my name.
Because my friend, you just used to say, Oh, well, this friend of mine that I used to have
Decades ago, you know, I mean, because it had been at least 20 years and it was still hurtful. And so she says that she's always felt that God has brought and redemption.
To that part of her life through her relationship with me through a friendship with me because her friendship with me is what she wanted that my friend, her friendship with her that other woman to be like
And and and and God had us have the same name because those names can be a trigger, you know, kind of like Jamie's name or and then you mentioned somebody else. I think that you said her name was a trigger.
And and and so names can be a trigger. So God just God had her God has shown her that just like, you know, I want to show you that I bring bring redemption. So it was really interesting. And then there was something else. And it was
Oh man, the other one was a really, really interesting one about about Ashley. Oh, that's what it was. Okay, so I had, I had some friends that were trying to matchmake. This is years ago. It's probably
10 years ago or more that tried to matchmake with me and me with their son and which is a great compliment, but
They they're I'm telling you what they just really, really pushed it. And the funny thing is that I don't remember how old he was when he ended up getting married and he was about my age. I think he was, he may have been my age. Exactly. I'm just a few months older and but he
Several, several years. A few years later, he got married.
Yeah, just a few years later, while they were still hoping that things would work out with me because we didn't date or whatever, but they were trying to matchmake
And he didn't live in town. So whenever he would be in town, you know, they're hoping that that and I would be in the same room and that kind of thing.
Well, ended that that while they were still trying to matchmake him with me. He ended up finding his own
Girl, and he'd never dated before. And so he was in his late 20s and he met this girl and started started dating her and of course eventually married and her name was Ashley
So I joke about the fact is like, okay, well I know that, you know, this was this was something that you were really want that they were really wanting because I don't tell them this, but I tell a friend of mine is that that I'm because she
And I used to watch them try to matchmake it. It's like, you know, they just really did just felt like, oh, my word. Ashley's the one. Well, it was. It's just the wrong Ashley
It's different.
That we always do that that how funny that was that it because he never dated and he was meeting me and they thought this is great. And while they were still trying to
Get that to work. He was in his late 20s and finally he started dating someone and then he got really serious with her and all of that. It was, but he did it on his own.
Not without not with his parents out and her name was Ashley.
That's so funny. And the other thing that was funny too about the situation with you is one of our first conversations. She had told me the story about the ash tree and Ashley, the meaning behind
And then in one of our first calls you explain the meaning behind the name. And I was like, that's so interesting. And it was only I think it was like a week or two before I met you that this happened.
And I was like with
Really, oh, wow.
It wasn't long before and it was it was really it was hard on me the way
The way it all kind of went down because it was it was just a really weird situation and I
Couldn't wait. No, I know it's it's okay. I just felt like I knew God was closing that door for a reason. I'm like, you know what, there's I know in my in my heart and my spirit that
That was supposed to close, but I don't know why. And that's the hard part I think for people is when something happens and you're like, okay, I know this is supposed to happen.
but I don't understand what's on the other side.
I don't understand why, like we've talked about.
And I just was trusting.
I'm like, okay, God, please, if it's your will,
show me something that will help me understand
why this wasn't the way I was supposed to go.
It was actually a business coach
who was going to coach me on how to build my business
in a way that was going to make me more money
and focus on all of the tools that we've talked about
that a lot of business coaches will use, right?
That I used to.
Yeah, that you used to teach, exactly.
So then it was like,
he knew that that was not the route he wanted me to go,
but that was the route I thought I was supposed to go,
but it was not aligned.
So when I met you and I was like,
this whole concept of rest in my business is interesting.
Totally not what I was thinking
was supposed to happen building my business.
And it just, it was way more aligned,
but I never would have been able to predict that
because I didn't even know
what you had necessarily existed, you know?
What I had existed?
That you, what you were teaching about rest.
I didn't know that that existed.
I didn't even know that that, the way you explain it,
I wouldn't have been able to articulate it.
I didn't know it existed.
Yeah.
The way that you've explained it.
And so to understand that has been really big in my life
because it almost takes all of the striving,
all of the pressure, all of the working so hard.
And it is completely counterintuitive
to what I thought I was supposed to be,
that path I thought I was supposed to be on.
But yet it was like, I started going down the path.
There was a dead end sign.
And I'm like, well,
now I've got to walk all the way back
to this fork in the road and follow this other path.
But this other path is like,
I have no idea what's down that path.
And so that's kind of what it was like for me visually.
And so it was interesting when I met you
and I was like, hmm.
And at first we just-
Actually.
Yeah, and we were just chatting.
So for me, it was no pressure because we were just chatting.
And then I was like, no, this sounds really good.
This sounds like it might be what I thought
the other thing was supposed to be,
but this sounds more aligned.
So when I talked to my husband about it,
he's like, yeah, yeah, that sounds good.
So, and it just felt right in my spirit.
And I think I've gotten a lot better over time
since I got out of the group at discerning
what is actually supposed to be for me and what isn't.
And sometimes when I can't discern it,
God will just really abruptly show me
that no, I'm closing this door or I'm opening this door.
He opens doors that no one else can open
and he closes doors that no one else can shut.
And I would not have shut that door, but he did.
I thought that was the direction I was supposed to go in,
but he knew it wasn't.
So again, it's like that.
I feel like a lot of the theme of this conversation
has been being in that unknown space.
Just like, this is what I know and understand.
I'm on land.
So the tightrope walker, right?
The tightrope walker, he takes one step out.
He says the hardest part about tightrope walking
is not taking the first step, it's taking the second step.
Because at that point,
you're not held on by the building anymore.
And it was the one who had gone between the Twin Towers
way back, he went back and forth like eight times.
And he was explaining this and I thought, yeah.
Because at that point, you're really just trusting
that you're gonna be protected.
And that's where I feel like I'm at.
I feel like I've taken one step off of the building
onto the tightrope,
but I'm still holding on to that other step.
I'm not like, I haven't stepped out with the other one yet.
Cause I'm like, what if I fall?
What if I don't know how to balance?
What if the wind is too strong and I blow off?
Like all these things.
And it's like, I'm focusing on the circumstances,
the wind and the waves, and I'm not focused on God.
And it's like getting to that spot
where we can focus on God, which is so,
it's so easy and it's so challenging with our humanity.
Yes.
No.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
So I think that's definitely,
I think you've gone over that hump,
but you're still in that position of choosing all the time,
but you've made that big decision at one point.
And I don't know if you've ever had to make a decision
in that way, like that strongly in that way again,
or if that was kind of the big one
where you put the other foot out,
or is it a repeated thing you have to decide all the time?
Well, it didn't feel the same
the other times that I've done it.
So I would say that it wasn't quite as strong,
but believe me when I say that when I've had to make,
certain decisions in certain areas to move into rest since then, they have been extreme.
But there wasn't, I haven't experienced one yet where I thought I was going to die, where
my body, where my soul was so desperate and my body was manifesting that what it is that
my soul believed to the point my body literally felt it was going to die.
So I haven't experienced that one again, which I don't believe that I will, because I believe
that that was like the original one, like, okay, now we're on this path.
But ever since then, it was like, you know, kind of like the main switch.
But ever since then, I will periodically in certain areas that I have a very, I am very,
I have, I reached certain major strongholds.
And by strongholds, I don't mean it is a hold of me.
It means I am strongly holding on to it.
Not these strongholds like Satan is like, Satan is, you know, come against me and I'm
this victim.
No, no, no.
I'm holding on to it.
Because that's how I personally believe that it works.
But this is a very simplistic way in which I believe that it works.
I'm sure that there's more to it that I don't fully understand, but I only speak in the
very simplistic, I try to speak the simpleness of the gospel and the freedom that it is that
we have in it, not all of the intricacies and particulars of whatever.
And so since then, I've had times where, yes, I've had to make very, very major decisions
to the point where I was, I'll be, I have felt literally nauseous and, or nauseated,
not nauseous.
Nauseated.
Sorry, I have a degree in English.
So words are very important.
It's nauseated.
Nauseous means I make people sick.
Nauseated means I am feeling sick, but, and I feel nauseated because, you know, I'm, I'll,
I was, I was struggling against it so much and I was so terrified that I was going to
die on the other side.
Now, not physically die anymore, but this would be like, Lord, it's just, this is a
spiritual death here or soulish death, really, and oh my word.
And I just felt, and I was holding onto it and that struggle, that struggle of feeling
the urge in my, in my spirits, calling me to do one thing and to come into alignment
and to agreement.
And my soul is just resisting that, that pressure was creating, was making, my body was manifesting
as feeling nauseous, as feeling nauseated and, and so in moments like that actually
is how God has began to articulate for me more and more what choosing means, where it's
an act of the will.
I intentionally and deliberately choose and willfully choose that this is what I'm going
to do without requiring understanding, logic, motivation, desire, anything.
It's an act of my will.
Even if I don't want it, I'm going to, I'm intentionally choosing it.
And now ultimately deep down, we want it because we want the Lord and deep down we
desire it.
But I'm talking about like flesh, fleshly, soulish, want, desire, even if I don't want
it, even if I don't desire it, I know that ultimately deep down I do, and I allow my
spirit to, to dictate that.
So I, so I have felt very extreme.
My soul has been in extreme terror, extreme fear to the point, and I've been in so much
resistance to the point where I felt nauseated.
And the last time I remember doing that was February, maybe, I think.
I'm guessing at that February or March was the last time I remember feeling nauseated
because I was, I got, I knew that I had to, to, to do it and it was, it was that hard.
And by the way, I have a very, very strong stomach.
I do not feel nauseated easily.
I went through, I didn't, I, it, I didn't vomit, you know, like, like, like even when
I was sick, like, like I had the flu or whatever for 15 years.
And so the very next time that I did, I had been given anesthesia for my, I've been put
under to take out my wisdom teeth.
And this is probably like.
like five years ago and I'd never been put under before and I had a reaction to it and so when they
they put me under and they just thought oh she's just gonna be under for 30 minutes I was under for
about three hours and so they because my body wasn't used to it so anyway when I woke up you
know my my stomach was upset and it and and so I threw up but I haven't done it since so in other
words my point telling you all of that I didn't mean to give you didn't mean to you know give
you TMI my point is to explain I have a very strong stomach it takes a lot for me to feel
nauseated even when I get sick I'm not nauseated so it I'm in that much battle and in that much
turmoil I tell you that so that you understand that the things that I'm explaining to you of
making choices of of making that what we always refer to as the leap of faith which is
unfortunately becomes such a cliche we don't even pay attention to it anymore but just the
total abandonment to an unknown where our in our life is on the line our life is at risk
and and we're just like and we're taking that second step where there is no more that there's
we don't we can't we're letting go of the last the last hole that we have and we don't know
what's going to happen and and it could lead to our death is what it feels like
um yeah I just want you to know that that I walk through that too and so everything that I'm saying
fully sustains is strong enough I know that it sounds simple but it fully sustains in the most
desperate dire spiritual physical and emotional life and death situations um and and I live it out
myself um so anyway I didn't you know I didn't so and then also sometimes people just feel like I
can um uh can help understand that I relate to their experiences because I don't ever want
it to um I want people to understand that even though the things that I say sound simple
I'm not devaluing what it is that people are going through how it feels to them the significance the
weight it's oh yes it's um I live it out yeah and I always appreciate that I always appreciate when
you share your experience because again like now you seem you figured out a lot of the things that
some of us have not quite gotten to you're a few steps ahead and we didn't know you when you were
maybe in a place that some of us are currently in or have been in recently so I think for us to
know sometimes that it's possible for us or at least I can speak from I for me to know that it's
possible for me it helps to know someone else has been where I've been and they've been able to
choose and to overcome and but in a really healthy way not in a um you know in a in a god-focused way
really yes right as choosing you know or you could do superficial manifesting and it doesn't
come from the bible it doesn't come from that spirit but no you've definitely um the way you've
taught the things that you've learned from the bible has opened my eyes a lot to what's possible
and I think I just had a big blip over the weekend and this last week with a lot of triggers and
been feeling guilty about my poor sweet little girl who you know I didn't like shout at her
anything but I had a very stern voice and she was crying and I was frustrated and I was like
man I that is not how I want to show up I don't know if you ever do that where you just show up
in a way and you're like I did not want to yeah and you know I it's funny because this morning
she was sad and I said sweetie are you sad about what happened yesterday and then she's like yeah
and she goes what happened yesterday oh that's cute like okay so we don't even know how to
articulate this or she doesn't know what she's talking about but in the moment and then she
sometimes gets in this place of she comes to me and she's like mommy are you happy again are you
happy now I love you mommy and I don't ever want her to look to me to dictate how she feels if she
feels loved and accepted so I'm like sweetie I love you all the time if I'm angry I'm frustrated
it's not about you really I'm like mommy's frustrated about something and you know there's
just something going on and I always love you you're always like the most important girl in
the whole world to me so don't ever think that it's about something being wrong with you because
you're amazing you're perfect I just sometimes we just need to work on some things mommy needs
to work on things too
So I try to explain it to her so she understands in her little almost five-year-old mind, but
it's, um, I feel, you know, I, I put, I think if I can be in rest more with her, which I
have been, I've noticed a shift in her, even in the week.
On Sunday, I was like, oh man, I wonder if I would have been in rest, would the day have
turned out better?
If I wouldn't have been frustrated about all the stuff that was going on, would she have
been more peaceful?
Unless that's what I was going to say is, is that, you know, they can sense the environment
and then the more upset that a parent is, the more child will act out unless they do
the opposite.
And they stifle themselves trying to, because they feel that there's some, um, uh, that
they typically get abuse when, when they act that when, um, you know, mommy or daddy is
upset, then children can get really, really, really quiet and try to make themselves invisible.
But other than that, you know, children, and that's usually more extreme situations or
when children have interpreted it extremely, but the majority of the time, children act
out more when, um, when mommy and daddy are upset or there's some element in which they,
they sense a spiritual chaos.
Um, so yeah, that's very interesting.
It's good wisdom.
Thank you.
Well, I, uh, I appreciate our call.
I appreciate your time.
You're welcome.
It was good to visit with you.
You too.
And, um, yeah, I hope you hope you have a good rest of the day.
I've got another couple of calls.
Cool.
Busy day.
Nice.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I'm glad you had a really good weekend.
Do you think you'll do a live about any of your weekend experiences or are you just going
to keep those kind of personal to what you experienced?
Um, oh, you mean, you mean what it is that God talked to me about, you know, and how
he came through for me?
Um, I don't know.
Um, I, there are things that so many things that I would like to be able to share.
And, um, it's just that the nature of some of them, I haven't felt whether I haven't
felt whether the Lord is saying that, um, that, uh, to use, to use, um, um, old church
mindset and, uh, phrasing felt released by the Lord to be able to say something.
I know that it would greatly help everybody to under, to, to hear like y'all post about,
you know, when y'all post about your struggles, you know, or this is how I'm feeling right
now.
Or, you know, this is a testimony.
This is how the Lord has come through for me.
Do due to the nature of some of them, just like y'all have particular things that you
only tell me in private and you don't post them publicly.
There are things that I haven't felt like I could actually, that I could actually post
due to the nature of them.
Um, and, um, you know, like for, like, for instance, you mentioned something, um, you
know, about issues with, uh, you know, with your parents and stuff like that, but you're
how the, and the uncomfortableness that you feel in exposing that even to your clients
or, or to whatever, even if your parents never saw it, just you knowing that you told somebody
as opposed to like, just telling somebody one-on-one, like using it to help clients
or whatever.
And it's, it's relationship issues or, or whatever types of issues that, that, um, sometimes
I go through and I'm like, well, I really have to be careful about how I word that because
it's always for other people's sake or for, I don't know, it depends on the situation
as to what's going on, but yeah.
No, I don't know.
I'd like to, and I keep trying to think of how I can, how I can like encourage all the
let y'all have, um, some transparent views of things that I'm going through when I'm
going through them.
But, um, and I do whenever the nature of them allows me to, but, um, I've struggled with
some recent ones.
Yeah.
No, I hear you.
I hear you.
Well, I mean, I very rarely will share some of the deep stuff with my clients, but once
in a while when they're experiencing something, I will share something very deep and personal
that it's just a one-on-one basis.
And I'm like, you know, I don't tell a lot of people this.
So from my past, the stuff that God's worked on, I don't need to revisit it, but I know
it'll be helpful for them.
So then I'll share it, but it's, um, it's definitely a case by case basis and it's definitely
a one-on-one thing.
I don't know if some of those things I would actually disclose just out on social media
or even in my Facebook group because it wouldn't be as purposeful.
It would be because I was being really called in the moment to share it.
there at, but not want to put it out there, you know?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
And there's some things that I have recently, um, that,
that I thought of recently that, um, happened a while ago that I thought,
you know what? I've wondered, it's like, Lord, that those things would be very
helpful. Can, is it time for,
for me to be able to talk about stuff like that? Cause enough time has passed.
So, so we'll see. I might have some, I might have some stuff more, um,
recently. Cause I mean,
I have some stuff that I might be able to share soon.
You've shared some good stuff though, in some of your rest intensive videos.
I've, I've enjoyed like your vulnerability in some of them where I'm like,
Oh wow.
She shared a lot about what she went through and made me feel like you
understood even more, which was good. But I think, you know,
you're also in this space of wanting to really be in the spirit and focus on
God. And sometimes that negates some of the negative stuff.
Maybe, you know, you don't, you don't choose to focus on a lot of the,
if we look at it as like a line here,
you don't go below the line and stay there for too long to focus.
You're kind of like always trying to rise above with Christ. Right.
So it's a different feel.
And I think that in itself is really inspiring because you have shared some of
your difficulties and then you do share one-on-one with people,
but you choose to kind of live in that realm more, I think now. Right.
I, yes, I choose to. And yeah. And, and always, yeah.
Always, I was choosing to.
It's always an opportunity for growth. It's all.
I know exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Choose to take the opportunity, you know, as much as, as much as I possibly,
as much as I possibly can. So, and I want y'all to know,
and I went, you know, just because it'd be,
I just figured it would be encouraging, you know,
for y'all to know when I do have to drop down sometimes when I struggle and
like, all right, I need a, you know, I'm struggling here, Lord. And this is,
these are the things that I'm doubting. And because I want y'all to hear
the struggles that y'all are having.
I want you to hear them when I asked the Lord, those same things.
So that y'all can, so that y'all can be encouraged and know, Hey, look,
if I'm living this life and I'm still having these questions, you know,
still running up against things that y'all are like, okay. So,
so just because I'm running into those things,
doesn't mean that I can't that there's not hope in that.
I can't be moving forward that, you know, to, in other words, you know,
I have Ashley's living this life and I can too,
because Ashley's the son of God, just like, just like me. So.
Well, well, thank you. And it's been great spending time with you and, uh,
I'm sure we'll be in touch at some point soon. So.
Sounds good. Hope you have a good afternoon.
Thank you. You too. And, uh, yeah. Talk to you soon.
Okay. Bye.
Bye.