Okay.
Hey.
How are you?
Good.
How are you?
Doing good.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Where are you?
Are you in Denver now?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm in Denver.
Yeah.
Cool.
So who's there for you?
Who do you know there?
Oh, just friends of mine and I are traveling.
We were a couple of friends, Fred, that I was with the, at the conference with, we're
traveling to Denver.
And so they invited a couple of us that were there, me and one other friend, to come with
them.
So we're all traveling together.
But anyway, so I'm headed back tomorrow, headed back, well I say back, I'm headed to Dallas
to pick up my dog and then I'm headed out again, but I don't know where.
So how long does it take to drive from Texas to Denver?
To Denver?
It is a 11 hour drive.
Wow.
You are, you're getting a lot of kilometers on that little Miata.
I am.
I am getting a lot.
Speaking of which, I need to check the oil tomorrow before I head out, but, and then
I need to get it serviced when I'm in town.
So, and then I think I'm going to try to get my hair done while I'm in town and all kinds
of stuff.
And then I'm headed to Denver.
I'm coming back to Denver.
When am I coming back?
I'm coming back in October, October 16th through the 18th, I think.
Okay.
Yeah.
Teaching at a women's business retreat.
Wow.
That's cool.
Leadership.
Business leadership retreat.
Yeah.
It's for leaders of a business.
So anyway, yeah.
So I got your polo, but I had not been able to watch it until, you know, just a little
bit ago.
So I'm sorry.
It's been, I've been, it's been a jam-packed schedule.
So, but I was, I was sad though, that I hadn't been able to catch you.
Not at a time when things were, were challenging for you and things were coming up for you.
I'm sorry.
So how are you feeling today?
Well, I knew we were going to talk today, so that was helpful.
You know, honestly, like I don't talk to a lot of people about this stuff because part
of me feels like I should be over it.
Part of me doesn't know why it makes me so sad when I talk about it, but it's like, it's
just hard.
I don't know why exactly, but when we were on the call last night and like, I literally
felt the Holy Spirit, like, you got to hop on this call.
And I was so tired and I was like, I don't know, I'm just going to probably go to bed
and I felt like I was supposed to hop on.
So I did.
And when you said that about your experience and just your dream and about how God kind
of revealed to you that you were there to sort of be almost like a catalyst for other
people to experience something, you know, I don't know why God exactly allowed me to
go through what I did, just like you talked about with the darkness of it.
You know, I wonder if even though they were totally different experiences, if they were
similar in the way of like experiencing the darkness and the oppression and the enemy's
work in our lives and how that feels to us spiritually.
I don't know, because I don't know your whole situation, but the darkness that I was in
was I was very oblivious to it as well at the time.
So it definitely took a toll on me.
My friend who went, she actually went for deliverance and she was like, you should go
for deliverance because I feel like you had something latch onto you when you were involved.
And I was involved way longer.
She was only there for five days.
And she was like traumatized.
Right.
So I was there in there for like a year and a half and close to the leader.
So it was even more traumatizing.
So she, so I, I just, when they come to my city, I struggled because I want to believe
that there was a reason that I went through all that.
And I believe part of the reason is because I'm where I am today and that God allowed
me to go through it so that I could help other women who are struggling.
I could understand more about narcissistic abuse and manipulation and people who are
like sociopathic or whatever.
And I feel like I'm more well-rounded in that.
And then the, the trauma of going through it and then what God did to heal me afterwards
has been profound.
So there's a lot of.
good in it even though it's like God promises to bring good for those who
love him and are called according to his purpose and I know that he's
using all of that to help me work with other women now which is amazing and
when you said that I just thought is it possible that God allowed me to go
through that too because not just for me to experience that but maybe for other
people to have an experience of something I don't know what the woman
who's leading it this weekend is not the woman who leads the company that I was
close with it's another woman and she and I got really close when I was in it
and part of me just wanted to like drive down to the hotel and and like say hi to
her and but I know that I'm like blacklisted so it's hard because I I
miss those people and it wasn't all bad and when I asked you about the
brainwashing and stuff I thought yeah like I thought I was joyful and I know I
really wasn't I know I'm in the spirit now more than ever but there is a
component of it that feels very blissful it feels very good when you're in it so
I miss that sometimes and I think there's a whole bunch of stuff coming up
for me in it yeah yeah it's good that you can see that those things don't have
just nothing but but evil in the fact that there are things that the Lord
desires to give us and that our spirits are drawn to but it needs to come from
the right place honoring you know honoring the Father and the life source
that he is so your spirit is drawn to those things because you were created to
interact with with them and to to experience bliss to live in bliss etc
just not in that environment and in that way but your spirit is responding to it
because God intends for all of us to have it and what you can do is you can
now be aware that okay that is possible that exists God desires that for me and
then find out with the Lord journey with the Lord and in anticipation in
excitement and enjoyment of where and in asking him to show you and guide you to
where you can have that oh sorry where you can have that in a in the way that
in the life-giving way that he intended you to experience it and and then you
can receive that truth from him in what you went through as opposed to thinking
well and I'm not saying you're saying thinking this I'm just saying you know
as opposed to the thought process that we can be tempted to give into which is
oh the I want to experience it and that's the only way I can experience it
or that's a quick way that I can or whatever that's what drugs do it's a
quick way for us to experience something that God designed us to to live in and
to feel and to be but from a healthy perspective and from a life-giving
environment not from not through drugs because that's and you know like what
you're talking about last night you know like jumping over the fence like a
thief and a robber you know in order to experience the benefits it's that in
certain things that God created sorry oh sorry I'm not giving up high enough you
know how you're not you don't get enough enough oxygen you start you start
yawning and also we my friends and I ate lunch long ago and you know how that
kind of then that you're all the blood comes down from your brain into your
digestive system anyway so I just wanted to encourage you Matt and you know you
you were able to see see things in those people like in that in that that friend
of yours that leader that God placed there because she does reflect the Lord
but you know everyone does Christians non-christians have aspects about
themselves that reflect the Lord that we were made in his image
And to be able to see past, not see past,
to be able to see and recognize those things
is highly commendable.
And you can, and you can,
having that heart and that compassion for them,
you can lift them up before the Lord
and hold them very specially
in your heart and in your spirit
for the redemptive aspects of who it is that they are
that are reflecting the character of the Lord,
even if they're not living in those areas
that they're out of the Lord being their life source.
But, and because it's important for us
to not view people that have created turmoil in our lives
from this solidly pure evil perspective,
as if everything that they do
is just reflective of something that's degenerate.
So I just wanted to commend you for that
and to maybe help explain or give you some comfort
as to why you, there's this struggle of this.
Well, it's not all bad, but why can't I be with them?
And I wanna be with them for these good reasons
or whatever.
All of those good reasons or wonderful reasons
doesn't mean that someone, you know,
obviously as you're aware of and as you've chosen to do,
it's not, it doesn't mean that we put ourselves
in those situations with those people.
Unless, you know, the Lord just guides us to,
anyway, because they're not carrying the life of the Lord.
And it's wanting to,
you're desirable to the spirit
that they've come into agreement with,
and it wants to reach out and pull you in.
And you're choosing to not give it any opportunity
to do so, or to even try to come against you
and threaten you.
But apparently they, you know, them just being in town
is still a trigger.
And why is it a trigger so much?
Is it just that all kinds of things
that you haven't resolved and healed from come up?
That you feel that there's this struggle of,
well, no, no, nevermind.
I don't know why I'm asking the question
because I actually already know the answer.
That's it.
There are things that,
and it could be a whole bunch of things,
you know, things that you miss, those relationships,
that feeling of belonging.
That's why cults are so addictive.
It's a feeling of belonging and identification.
The feeling of, or the understanding of who it is
that we believe that we are as an individual.
But in a, with all of the benefits of a corporate community.
And both of those things are highly addictive.
Relationship and identity.
And it's got both of those.
And it uses them against people.
So having all of those things still within you,
I mean, you know, that you're still trying
to come to terms with, you're still trying to heal from.
And then it's easy for all of that stuff to be triggered
when they come into town.
So it's highly unlikely
that it's related at all to them coming to town.
It's that them coming to town
brings them in close proximity,
which triggers all of this other stuff
that's always been there.
It's not stuff that just only exists when they're in town.
It's just elements that haven't quite healed
and you feel haven't quite become, you know, reconciled.
So.
Yeah, it's almost like, you know,
you're kind of maybe a bit of an alcoholic
and you had, you know, you were an alcoholic
and had these great experiences being an alcoholic.
You had these great people you hung out with.
You went to the bar, they knew you.
They gave you free drinks.
They, you know, you just, you had a community.
And then all of a sudden you decided to become sober.
And all of your friends are coming back into town
and they're all going to the bar
and you just want to join them, but you know that you can't.
You know that it's like,
for me there was a bit of an addiction component to it
because I like, honestly,
it's interesting how that whole time.
it was one of the best times of my life and one of the worst times of my life at the exact same time.
So it's really hard to not want to go back and like yeah I gave it all up which is good.
It's good that I gave it up because I tore myself away from something that was very unhealthy.
It's hard for me that there are so many people still in it that don't realize that.
And that I can't be in their life and they can't be in mine. That's really hard too
because I miss them and I know I know what I know what I know like I know that
it's not healthy the way they do it is not healthy. And then they're just like bringing
more people in and there's more people that are banding with them and that's hard. I don't even
know how many people they have in the class. But you know my friend Julia her husband my
ex-friend Julia her husband is one of the ones leading it and putting it on bringing it to the
city. So I think about I had a dream about her the other night and I think about that relationship
and how I miss her. And how she's still very much indoctrinated as he is. And so there's I
guess a whole bunch of things coming up around them being in close proximity because it brings
it to the forefront of my mind. And it's like just out of reach like when all the people are out of
town and not going to the bar I don't think about it. But when they're all coming into town and they
want to go out and they want me to join them and or even if they don't but like they're all going
and they you know I know if I went there would be some people that would just love me and there
would some people be like oh you stop drinking and you think you're better than us or whatever
they think right. But they're all coming they're all going to the bar it's that fun time it's that
connection that you get again. And I really really struggle I just struggle in my spirit in my heart.
I know if I wanted to go I wouldn't physically be able to
move my body and get there because my spirit would stop me. But I'm glad that my spirit stops me but
I'm also like man I wish it wasn't so black and white I wish I could I wish it could be part of
my life. And yeah I don't know there's so much coming up for me and that's why when I talk about
it it's like it feels like I don't really even know how to explain it fully.
Yeah no yeah I know all of that makes sense because you're you were created for the things
that those that that environment was trying to fulfill. And so God intends to fulfill them.
And and you've gotten a sense and I and an idea now of what life can be like in the kingdom.
But that was the counterfeit version. And so you're you can take all of the desire within you
that is focused on wanting to go back. You know in in other words to have what you used to have
is my point. You know the belonging the bliss community identification you know whatever it is.
And you can take all of the desire with which you are approaching that and and then just turn it
towards the towards the I was going to say the unknown but the unknown of
what it is that is that God wants to actually manifest. You know the environment that he wants
to put you in or whatever that will that you can experience all of those things in.
And because Satan doesn't create new things he just counterfeits for the wonderful thing that
God has already created and the wonderful things that God has already created are exponentially
more beautiful and more wonderful and blissful than the counterfeit that that Satan created
because in God it brings life but within the counterfeit it just brought death.
So I recommend that you take all of that desire that you have of going back.
and put it into going forward, meaning like, towards something like, okay, God, you gave me
an idea, you gave me a glimpse of how things can be. And I'm asking that you bring those,
that you bring me into those things in my life. And I am putting all of this,
this desire for the past, I'm now putting it towards the future that I, of how I know and
choosing to believe that you're going to bring to pass. It's like the Israelites,
when they left Egypt, and how they were wandering around in the wilderness, and they were just like,
did you bring, Lord, did you bring us out into the wilderness to die? Because at least, yes,
we were slaves in Egypt, but at least we had amazing food to eat. And at least we have this,
that and the other. And we didn't have to worry about water and that. And they said that they
would rather die slaves than die free. Because yeah, they were talking about dying in the
wilderness, but Egypt, they would have died too. So they said that they would rather die slaves
than die, to die free. Even though God's like, was saying, no, you're not going to die in the
wilderness, I'm taking you to the promised land. But then because it is, because they claimed that
they were going to die in the wilderness, eventually they did. Because that's what they,
they described. So I recommend, like I keep saying, that take all of that energy, effort,
mindset, desire, and shift it towards, as opposed to just letting it, as opposed to,
I was going to say like letting it go, but you know, as opposed to
thinking that you can't have it. Just take all of it that you already have, all of the energy,
built up desire, and then ask the Lord to reveal to you what the godly thing is that you can point
that towards, that he can begin to fulfill the desires of your heart. Yeah. Well, I know like,
even in getting out, he's brought me so much closer to him, and I know I can always seek him,
and that's what helped me get out. That was the reason I got out. If I didn't have him,
I don't think I would have gotten out. He, his spirit came on me, and through him,
through other people that his spirit came on, it all worked for me to get out. And
so I know he's above that, and I know he's better than that. And I've been out for two years now,
so it's like, I feel like very different than I, oh my gosh, when I first got out, I was a mess.
It was like, I don't even know how to explain it. It was just so messy for me.
And so yeah, just putting that effort and energy into God more for sure. It's like,
it's almost like something deep in me that I can't control when these emotions come up.
It's like, I know my life's better now. I know that I have God. I know that I have a great
group of friends. I have everything that I could want. I feel like I'm living more in the spirit.
I'm living more at rest. When I'm not in rest, I notice it, and I can shift faster.
There's something very deep inside me that is still, I don't know, maybe a little bit traumatized,
maybe a little bit sad. I don't know exactly what it is. It's like, I can't really explain it. It's
like, I was in a good mood. I get on the call. I'm like, everything feels good. Then all of a
sudden, I start to cry when I think about it. It's weird. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's because
there's still stuff, things deep down, deep down in the DNA that records that you created,
records that your grandparents created, great-grandparents, whatever. That is the ground,
that's the land that is full of giants, like Canaan, that we're trying to overcome.
But God says that the land is ours, that he's already given it to us, and that we have the
victory, and we're just having to overcome it. In other words, we're having to stand out knowing
that if God says we have the victory, then we have the victory, and we stand in that.
So these traumas, these things of like, how on earth is this coming up? I mean,
I know better than this. It's deep accusation that we have against the Lord, where we believe
that he's going to fail us, or we believe he already has failed us, or that he's in the
middle of failing us, or whatever. We believe that we're in a place of lack. We believe that
there's something we don't have that we need, and we don't feel safe. We don't feel safe with God,
and that's what all of this is.
It's coming up, and it's deeper than what we can logically
talk ourselves out of.
It's actual beliefs that we have against God
and against his character and how good that we've
declared that he is, or how good the accusations that we have
against how good he declares that he is.
And that's what all of that is.
So we want it to make sense, et cetera.
But when God heals us, and we just, over time,
sometimes don't get answers, and we
continue to choose God and his character,
that if he says he protects us, he protects us.
If he says he loves us, he loves us.
If he says he likes us, then he likes us.
And then he likes us to the degrees
that he continues to want to reveal to us.
When we choose that continually, the other stuff
and all of those accusations, all of those lies,
all of those proofs and evidence of how it hasn't worked out
in the past, all of those things end up fading,
where it doesn't, where we don't
get answers for everything.
And we actually find out we don't care.
When we still have accusation against God, we care.
As those accusations start waning,
as we come to trust God more, because we
choose to focus on the truth and we choose to focus on life,
the more we do that, the more that what
it is that we went through that we were looking
for reconciliation for, we were looking for understanding for,
we no longer have to understand.
We no longer have to have it reconciled.
We just don't care.
It just fades from meaning.
It faints from significance.
Because it doesn't matter.
We come to the point where we're like, OK,
I don't know why I was in the lawsuit,
and I don't really care.
I don't know why so-and-so accused me,
and I don't really care about why.
Because we've been replaced.
Our land that we have claimed and conquered
has so that light, that truth, just replaces the darkness.
It casts out the giants.
We don't care about how they got there
and how they lived while they were there
and how it affected the land.
It doesn't matter as long as God is love and good and true
and righteous and holy.
The long-
Huh?
I wanted to ask you, what do you think
my accusations against him are?
Because you're talking, and I'm trying to figure out,
I don't know what I'm accusing him up because I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
Well, it's those things that I mentioned.
They're just very core to the core accusations
we all have against the Lord, that he doesn't protect,
provide for us, identify us, love us, like us,
or comfort us.
I believe all those things.
I believe who he is.
I believe that he's protecting me.
I believe that he protected me in that.
I believe that he's protecting me now
and he's providing for me.
I don't think it's any of those things,
necessarily, at least from what I can understand,
at least where I'm at right now.
It's something, unless you have a vision
of what it is I'm accusing him of,
I can't, none of those things fit to me
because I don't feel like I'm accusing him
of any of those things.
It's just like, I don't know.
I can't figure out what it is I'm accusing him of.
So it's deep accusation that we have against God
in all of these areas that goes all the way back to Adam.
Agreements that Adam made, agreements that Noah made,
agreements that David made, agreements that you made,
grandparents, great-grandparents,
and that's the land that we're overcoming.
So it's not just, and so some of it is not just accusation
that you've experienced,
it's accusation that you inherited
because someone else didn't overcome it.
So you inherited the land that you're,
and the giants that your parents didn't cast out,
you know, just like in real life.
that, you know, if the Israelites, if the first generation of Israelites didn't conquer
the Antiquites in certain areas, well, then they left it to their children to have to do.
And in the meantime, they and their children suffered under the oppression of the Antiquites
until some generation finally decided to deal with it. And by that time, the Antiquites had
breathed it. By that time, they've increased in number. So, and also our accusation. Yeah,
I agree. We all believe that God protects us. We all believe that God provides for us
until we don't. So, until we're in these situations where all of a sudden we're afraid,
that's what fear is. Fear is accusation against God because God says that in Him we should have
no fear. So, if we're fearing, it means there's something about God that He says that He is that
we're not believing. And it's to an extent. So, in other words, we believe that He provides and
protects us to an extent. We believe His character to that degree. But we finally, these triggers
reveal the degree to which we don't now believe Him. We believe Him to this extent and then we're
triggered. So, God will allow us to come to these trigger or these triggers which just come up or
however they come up. They come up and all of a sudden we're set up against, set up against
something that, you know, we come up against the degree to which we now no longer believe
that God provides and protects us beyond this degree. We believe that He will to this extent,
but we don't believe that He will to this extent. And so, God continues to, through our triggers,
God continues to expand our boundaries so that we come to greater and greater agreement of the
degree to which He loves us, the degree to which He provides for us. I mean, it's to the point where
it's scandalous to the world. The amount that He loves us, the amount that He's good to us,
what He will cover, what sins of ours He'll cover. Well, of course, He's covered all of them, but
what I mean is that sometimes there are consequences that someone should bear
and we don't see how they're bearing those consequences. Because why? Because God loves us
that much, that He's willing to overcome those things. So, the way that God interacts with
His sons is so loving and out of such goodness and desire for us that it's scandalous.
I mean, it truly is. It offends us. God's love is so good that it actually offends us,
meaning that it triggers us and we think, God, that's not righteous. That's not holy
for you to do what you just did in mine or somebody else's life. And God's like, no,
that's me. That's my love. That's the degree to which I love. I'm not scandalous in my love.
So, that's what I mean about accusation. Okay. So, you're talking about me toward God,
not other people toward God. I have a question for you that I wanted to ask as well, but
just really quick, you're talking about me toward God or them toward God?
What do you mean? Okay. I'll ask my other question. That's okay.
Okay. I was wondering,
why did He allow... So, there are other people who are strong Christians.
Why did He allow me to be able to see? Why did He guide me out, but He still got these other
really strong Christians that are totally involved and swept up in it? And why isn't
He bringing them out of it? Oh, well, I mean, I don't know. That's their walk with the Lord.
He's got different things with them. I mean, why did you go a year and a half,
and your friend went five days? Why do some people see it instantly? Why do some people,
their first day, as soon as they walk in the room and they immediately reject it,
and they're like, hey, I'm out of here. And they walk out the door. And as opposed to those who
continue on in it for five days or a year and a half or five years, or people that heard about
it and immediately knew that was something they wanted nothing part of. I mean, everybody has
their own journey. And we're not robots that where God just says, okay, I'm going to lead
you by the nose, and you're going to do these things.
and this is what I want you to go through, so deal with it.
We partner with those things, but God is our,
and we make our own decisions out of our own free will.
There are ways in which, there's ways in which God
tries to father us in the free will that we are,
that we're making our choices in.
He's teaching us how to make mature choices,
and so sometimes we don't make mature choices,
but he doesn't abandon us when we make immature choices,
when we're not discerning, or when there's something
that we didn't know to avoid, we didn't know to be wary
of this type of situation.
We feel victimized, we're like, well, Lord,
I never felt convicted by you, why not?
The Lord still provides and fathers us
in all of those things.
Yeah, did that answer your question?
Yeah, I think so.
Like, I get everyone has their own journey and everything.
I guess it's just hard for me,
because I watch them, and they're apparent,
like they're very faith-filled, some of them,
and even the woman that's doing this weekend,
who's leading it, she's very Bible-based,
very focused on the Lord, and yet she's teaching this stuff,
believing that it's gonna help set people free,
at least in the soul level, mind and heart.
But I'm like, she just, like, how do people not get it?
Like, I almost, and then on the same kind of,
I guess, playing field as that, is I'm wondering,
so they don't get it, which I'm sort of sad about,
and I know it's not my journey, it's theirs,
but I almost feel like, should I not be telling them?
Like, somebody told me, hey, you know what you're involved
in, and I'm like, no, I don't believe you,
but then I investigated it more.
It's like, there are these really amazing people
that I love that are still completely indoctrinated,
completely undermined control,
and they're apparently Christians,
but they're not focusing on the Lord first,
they're in bondage, they're not living in freedom.
I know they're doing that, and it's like knowing,
it's like never having a conversation about Jesus
with somebody that you love.
I feel like they, I think they're so indoctrinated,
they wouldn't believe me anyway,
but I almost feel like, why haven't I been able
to have that conversation?
Why am I not speaking out about this more?
You're wondering why you're not doing it?
And just the whole thing is like,
I guess that's kind of the thought that's going on
in my mind, is why am I just letting this keep going?
Why am I not going to this hotel that it's at
and standing outside and being like,
just so you guys know, you're entering into a cult.
Why am I not able to do that?
I'm just sitting back and letting all this happen.
Well, you just, not everything is given to everyone,
just like to do, just like you said,
that you have that friend who feels
that they need to be outspoken about the cult,
or a cult that she was in,
and it's gone on television and whatever,
and you don't feel like you should do that.
There's different things given to different people.
It's important for it to have compassion
and to act on that compassion the way
that we believe that the father would.
Like, Lord, I believe that this is what,
these are the types of things that you do.
This is what I believe that you would do in this.
This is the way that I believe
that you're guiding and leading my heart,
but it's going to be different for everyone.
And what God might be having you do is to,
you know, is to be more,
I don't want to say silent,
but just not stand in front of the stadium
or the hotel or whatever it is,
and call it out for what it is to everyone.
I mean, there were all kinds of hideous things
that were going on in Israel,
and Jesus didn't stand outside and do that,
and he was the son of God.
There are ways that we can,
it may, that battle may not be yours to overcome
in that way.
And the way that you can overcome
for the benefit of the world
is to overcome the trauma that it created in you.
And then how the Lord wants to use it
in other people's lives, you know, he'll lead you to.
So just go according to where it is that you feel peace in your spirit.
It's not a formula and, um, as well.
Um, because the world would say things like, well, we have to be very
demonstrative if we mean it, or if we're trying to save somebody or whatever.
But just because you go and talk to people, does it mean that their eyes
are, are open to be able to see it?
Um, but if the Lord leads you to do it, well then do it because he'll sustain you
in it, um, and whether or not people's eyes are open to peace calls you to do it,
then do it, but, um, the, you may not be in a place where, um, personally,
where you can do that yet.
Um, it may not be given to you to do, um, but some other things have
been given to you to do, overcoming it, overcoming your own land, um,
talking to and encouraging the friends that aren't still in the
cult that you're still connected with.
And I don't remember who you say that you're still connected with.
There are a few people I think, oh, well, there, you said,
Julie, that you said, um, you haven't.
Oh, was it April that you haven't?
I do have a few people who've kind of gotten out, but that I'm still
connected to, but they're, they're, they're pretty much out.
They see, they see what I see.
No, and I've helped April a lot.
Like April, I think she'd still be in it if I hadn't have shared
what I've gone through with her.
Um, that helped her a lot for sure.
And she's been able to get out.
And what you said about Jesus kind of struck me how he didn't, how he was in
Israel, like he didn't take on everything.
He had his mission, he had his purpose.
And even though there were other things going on, he didn't have to stand up for
every single thing that was happening.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, he didn't, he didn't go and like picket and protest and, and to, and, and
all of that, he understood that the battle was for the human soul.
Um, and, and there were, and there were a variety of ways in which he could
interact with people, um, you know, in the synagogue or out in the desert or
wherever it, you know, met with Matthew, the tax collector and, um, Zacchaeus and
he went to his house and, and he visited with people over dinner.
And I mean, that's how he changed the world.
Um, it wasn't big and demonstrative.
Um, it's, um, it's often the small, quiet things that shake the world the most.
Um, so just go wherever it is that the Lord calls you.
Um, the don't receive condemnation that you're not doing something, um, that
God hasn't called you to do.
I'm not saying he hasn't called you to do it.
I'm saying that if he has not called you to do something that don't, that shame
and condemnation is if we're comparing ourselves to some kind of standard of
measure that the world has put up, um, uh, of what it looks like if you truly
care about other people, and if you really do want to save them, and if you
really, whatever, um, because it's just not, it's just not true.
Yeah.
I like that.
Like, yeah, you also said around, like, if somebody, you know, goes out and
demonstrates through, you know, picketing or, you know, like the Black Lives Matter
movement or people like that, or they go out and riot, it's like, okay, the more I
demonstrate my unpleasure, displeasure with this, the, the more it means and the
more of a difference I'm making, but like you said, like kind of the quiet
spirit of somebody who just knows and chooses to be in the spirit over
something like that, that might be even a different way, possibly a better way.
I don't know.
I won't judge it as better or worse, but it's a, it's definitely another
way of going about it because you're demonstrating by living in the spirit
instead of demonstrating through, it's like a peaceful demonstration almost,
rather than a, um, violent or an outburst or anything like that.
Right.
Um, yeah, it, well, it's, it's actually, I know I keep going back to this word,
but it's, it's actually doing the, the serious work of overcoming, um, as opposed
to just making a really big protest about the whole thing, that that's not work.
Um, the, uh, there's the, um, yeah, I mean, there's such a thing as like
making one's voice known and heard.
but the majority of it at the time protests don't don't act aren't actually
getting any work done they just make a whole bunch of noise so that people feel
heard but it doesn't protests don't change things people getting out and
impacting other people and living life a particular way making particular
decisions and sending out particular intentionality that's what changes the
world investing personally in another human life that impacts the world
whether it be your own or someone else's well that's so yeah so I've definitely
been in my own like life like honestly if you knew me two years ago I'm a
completely different person in so many ways and even more so after working
through the rest intensive and everything but yeah like and I'm also
pouring into people one-on-one through my coaching and you know I'm not always
perfect I don't love my job so I'm not always perfect at work sometimes I get
stressed and stuff at work and I get to work on that for sure but I'm better
with my daughter and better with for my clients I'm learning a lot that I'm
imparting on to them and helping them through their situations that in some
ways you know if I hadn't been through my situation with the group I would not
be able to help them as much so that's all really good and just not yeah not
needing to make a big production of it but just being in that place of
overcoming and you said something else in there I wanted to touch on but now I
can't remember what it was but yeah I think you said like you're doing the
deep work of overcoming which you know I guess I could cover it up by going out
and fighting and like helping other people but maybe it is better this way
so then how for the people that are in it how do I reconcile in my spirit the
fact that I'm not doing anything so I've left so my name's been dragged through
the mud and I'm this awful person and according to them I'm not really but
according to them so I'm I'm not doing anything to help them people I care
about so how do I reconcile that like maybe yeah maybe it's not my place maybe
I'm not supposed to do it maybe I'm just supposed to do what I'm doing but I
still haven't reconciled that in my spirit completely where I feel okay about
it okay about what part particularly not not actually like doing anything about
it not Oh telling them not communicating with them not showing them that what she
said about me is not true and that her story around me being this and me being
that has made me look like a bad person so instead of them realizing that I'm
leaving because I'm making a choice to be with God they think I'm leaving
because of all these reasons that she said that makes you know it's all about
me being bad right yeah no yeah I mean that's really hard I mean because it's
hard to to leave people believing certain things about us that just aren't
true but God can fight those battles for us says that and vengeance is mine I
will repay save the Lord and he's the one who we leave to fight those battles
we don't need to fight them we don't need to ensure that the burden of God's
reputation in us is not on us we just follow the Lord we just follow with
heart and and we just look like him and act like him talk like him and then he
takes care of the fallout he takes care of the consequences and responsibilities
and I'm speaking of this through through lots and lots and lots of experience
and really really bad ways in which and in which my name's dragged through the
med and very variety of things you know obviously the whole lawsuit thing that
was really bad and we were the CEO my boss was the CEO of the company and then
I was I was this right-hand person and and there were horrible horrible
horrible things that and that that we were accused of that absolutely were not
true and that court case went on for a year and a half I think
Yeah, it was a year and a half, almost exactly.
And we, and there were so many ways in which we had invested in those people and we'd had
like, we, they knew that we were Christians and they weren't, and they would come to us
for advice.
They would come to us for spiritual counsel.
I had one person come to me and, or me and my boss, I guess, separately for spiritual
counsel about whether or not she should abort her baby.
And you know, there were, you know, people were drunk and they were on drugs and, you
know, suicidal.
And I mean, just things were terrible and their lives were changing when we were there.
And that, and we were salt and we were light, and this is just one example of reputation
where they all turned on us and, or at least leaders did.
And then the leaders communicated certain things to them as if we were really evil and,
and you know, spread all kinds of lies, told lies in court and, you know, just all kinds
of things.
And, and we were just, we're like, oh my God.
And one of the things that we struck with was, Lord, what kind of a testimony is this?
Shouldn't, you know, that your, your reputation, Lord, in, in our reputation is just being,
looks like it's being dragged through the mud and God said, yeah, but that's not for
y'all to, it's not y'all's burden to carry.
He said, I will take care of my reputation and yours.
And we just had to, had to let it go.
And things got really bad after we left.
And the people that replaced us, I just found this out a few months ago, the people that
replaced us, of the people that replaced my boss, three out of the four managers that
held his position after he left committed suicide.
Three out of four that were in his position that, that one right after the other took
his job, they committed suicide.
Then there was another gentleman that had been through horrible, horrible things.
I mean, I mean like he just was, he was, he was an alcoholic and he had depression and
things were really bad and he was learning to, he was learning to believe in the Lord
while we were there and all of that.
I just found out a few months ago that, I think it was two years ago, two, maybe three
years ago that he committed suicide by cop.
So just terrible, awful things that happened afterwards.
And it was hard because we were blacklisted.
We weren't allowed to, there was a way in which we were not allowed to go back and visit
with those people.
Go back on, to interact with them, just, I don't know, all kinds of stuff.
I don't remember everything that was, that was involved in all of that, but, and we just,
we wanted to protect our, we, we, we loved those people and we wanted them to know, hey,
look, what you're seeing and what you're hearing about who it, who it is that we are and what
it is that we've done isn't true.
And we want you to know that God is better than that.
God is God, you know, you can trust God, you can love God, you, you don't have to worry
that, oh my goodness, we'll see, look what happened.
Look what they did, you know, and they claim to love God and so therefore, you know, anybody
Christians are just evil and their God is just hateful and we didn't, we wanted to protect
our reputation and the Lord's and save them themselves from themselves.
We just couldn't do all of that.
We just had to get her over to the Lord and that's just, that's just one example.
There's, there's so many examples that I could give in my world of business and in personal
life where my reputation's just been, was just slandered and I was isolated and I was
alone and I, I fought against, I didn't like it for my sake and I didn't like it for theirs.
I wanted them to know that whatever it is that they were attributing to Jesus, by looking
in my situation, I wanted them to know, no, that's not Jesus.
Jesus is good and Jesus is loving and I wanted to help those people because we poured out
our lives.
I poured out my life to so many different people in so many different areas of my life
and I want them to know the salvation and the freedom that they can have.
And I just have to release my, my reputation and I have to release God's.
reputation to them, and I understand that I can't control other people.
I can't control what y'all think about me, what my clients think about me, if I can't
control what y'all think about my particular viewpoint on theology and on the Lord, and
I can't control what y'all do with it.
I can't control if y'all, if you think, okay, well, all of this is hogwash, or if you think
that, or if you trust it, and then you try to implement it, and then you feel that things
go south, and then you either start doubting God, or people start hurting themselves by
living in more fear and more bondage and whatever, and I can't take on that responsibility.
God gave me the responsibility of speaking the truth and to be there for other people,
no matter what.
I even had someone ask me last night, because they were asking me about my business, and
they were asking me about my pricing structure, and I explained my pricing structure, and
they asked, they said, Ashley, have you ever had to turn away someone because they didn't,
because since I leave it up to the client as to what they choose to pay, they asked
me, Ashley, have you ever had anyone that paid a certain amount to the PayPal account,
you know, as their monetary gesture, and you had to cut them off because after a certain
amount of time, they were refusing, they were eating up all your time, and they weren't
changing.
They weren't shifting, and you had to just say, hey, look, you know, you haven't, you
aren't meeting your end of the bargain, or I don't remember however my friend worded
it.
They were basically just asking, you know, has that ever happened, and I said no, because
I said I don't require any money to work with me.
If they want to, I only take people on that have owned their relationship with the Lord
and that are serious about wanting to change for their sakes, and if they're willing to
change for their sakes, I said I am in 100%.
Their action and inaction does not determine my interaction with them, and so it's just
something that I've committed to, and anyway, so that's the, those are the choices that
I've made in life, so I tell you all of this so that, again, I like to give examples, because
I've noticed they've been helpful to people, if I give examples of ways that I walk this
out so that you'll know that when I'm giving suggestions, advice, perspective, it's from
stuff I've had to walk out, because it sounds great and ethereal, you know, in theory, you
know, we can sit here talking about it, and it sounds great, and we're like, yeah, yeah,
I could do that for Jesus, and then we have to really do it, and that's, it's totally,
it looks different out there in the world than it sounds like, and it looks like in
our minds sitting here, and we do it anyway, because if we, if it's true, then it's true.
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
If it, if it's true, then we act on it, period.
So anyway, I know that that's not really a great, like a perfect, like a formula answer
or a strategy of like, oh, do this and do that.
Your relationship is your relationship with the Lord, meaning that he has a way for you
to travel and things for y'all to do together, and I don't know what it is that he's going
to tell you to do and what it is that he's placed on your heart, but I want, I desire
to give you, to guide you to where you can look to the Lord to find his peace, because
I can't give you that peace.
I can just give you suggestions that can have the opportunity to prompt your spirit about
where to look to find your father to get your answer, because he's the only one who can
satisfy these answers like, well, Lord, I feel something feels wrong in the fact that
I'm just sitting here.
Why is it, do I not have enough courage to go down the street and you want me to have
courage or is it that you haven't called me to do that, you know, and, and I'm just, I'm
just condemning myself, you know, what's going on, Lord?
I don't know the answer to that question because the answer would be different for every individual
and it will be different.
in different seasons of life. And I don't know what yours is. But so I just want to give you
enough piece of a direction to where to look for your father and and and get the answer from from
him. Because he desires you to God is not a God of confusion. And he he desires you to just be
able to rest in him and allow yourself to be and what the being looks like. I don't know for you.
Yeah, no, that all makes sense. And I'm curious, like when you're talking,
because I do love examples, you know, that I they affect me for sure, when you give examples.
So the the place that you worked, was it like a Christian ministry? Or was it a business when you
were helping people when you were like the turnaround consultant? Okay, okay, so two
different. Okay, so there's two different examples. I could give you the one that I'm talking about.
Yes, turnaround consulting, it was a secular company, that owners claim to be Christians.
But it was a it was a it was a secular company. Then there was another company that I worked for,
that was very ministry oriented, extremely, it was still a business, but it was it's its purpose
was for ministry. And it turned on me too. And I was bullied, like literally, I was
corporately bullied, to the point where I talked to one of the owners about it later, a year later.
And they were shocked to find out what I had gone through with with that person's business partner,
because I'd been bullied by that person's business partner. And I never and I didn't know how to
communicate it. It was kind of like being in a cult. And the fact that you're like, I can't figure
out what's going on. And, but I just knew that things were awful that I was being bullied is,
I mean, I didn't know, I didn't have words for it. But I was like, something's not right.
I mean, it's not right. But I but I kept taking the blame on myself, you know, like you did,
must be me, my problem. They're here for my benefit. God is using them for my benefit.
And this is just all I thought will come to find out I was being bullied. So a year later,
so I somehow came to that understanding. Oh, here's also how I realized that what was going
on wasn't right and healthy. I, whenever I was away from the business, and like on a Saturday,
or in the evening, or whatever, all of a sudden, I would have all this clarity. But if I would,
and I knew what was going on in the situation, I still didn't call it bullying, but I knew what
was going on in the situation. But when I would walk in the door Monday morning thinking, okay,
now I've had a whole weekend of clarity. I'd walk into the business Monday morning,
and get brain fog again. It was like, I couldn't see it. And couldn't see what was really going on.
Anyway, so a year later, after I'd left, I told I told the business partner, what had happened.
And by that time, the business partner that I bullied me, the two of those business partners
had split and had a really major falling out. Because this business partner tried to do that
to this one, what he'd done to me would just come and manipulate and and use everything to his
benefit and all of that. Well, this business partner was too savvy for it. He figured out
what's going on and didn't wasn't gonna have anything to do with it. But anyway, when I told
this business partner a year later, what had happened, he was shocked. He went to work the
next day after I had a conversation with he and his wife, he went to work the next day,
and asked the president of the company, along with some other leaders, asked them,
hey, Ashley has told me that this is what was going on several about a year ago.
And when she left, I'm wondering, did that ever happen to y'all by this person? Because the I was
the buffer. And once I left, then it started impacting the president, etc. So he, they,
these are grown adults that you have, who are the presidents of who one was the president,
but they were like leaders of a company that we're talking, go through intense situations at work,
all day, every day. These are, you know, very people of like iron, iron, they broke down crying.
When he asked them, hey, look, we got bullied, was this we're all corporately bullied in this
last year, they broke down crying. So in other words, the situation was bad.
And when I left, it was horrid.
When I had left a year prior, there were horrible things that were thought about me,
said about me, and I had been brought into the company off
of this business partner's recommendation.
And he literally said that of everybody, including the president of the company at the time,
out of everybody that he'd ever worked, that had ever worked for him,
that I was the best employee he's ever had, ever.
And so, in other words, I'm coming in with this reputation based off of all of the things
that he was telling other people about me.
People knew that I was very sensitive to the spirit,
and they would ask me for spiritual guidance.
I was brought into the company asked to bring my spiritual guidance.
And I was kicked out of that company.
It, I mean, like, almost on my tail.
It was bad.
And I thought, this is wild that Christians would do this to other Christians.
This is embarrassing.
This is whatever.
And I had to just follow the Lord, and I had to leave my reputation in his hands.
So, I've walked through these things with non-Christians, or, you know,
people who claim to be Christian, but they acted very much non-Christian.
And then it was just very secular business, and I have walked through it with Christians as well.
Who were very ministry business focused, who were also very hyper sensitive to the spirit.
And I was treated like that, too.
Come to find later, those relationships have been restored and redeemed.
And I'm very grateful for that, because this guy went around to the business
and made sure that they understood what had happened.
And he and his wife have always received me and have never rejected me ever.
In fact, they offered me a job a year later.
And they offered me a job and said, hey, Ashley, we're closing down the thing,
the business that you were a part of.
We're going to start this new business, and we want you to manage it.
So, I ended up not taking the job, because God told me not to.
But anyway, those are some examples of some really big, major things.
And oh, and by the way, that situation in which I was corporately bullied and all of that,
and that I was, that I had to leave with a bad reputation and all of that,
that was a, those, the stakes were very high.
That was, my contract was half a million dollars a year.
It was major.
Big situation, big stakes.
And so, anyway, that's what I've walked out.
And it works every time.
The Lord protects and the Lord provides.
But I went for, I went for a very long time without things being reconciled.
And I've gone for a very long time with that, that other company.
That was at least seven years ago.
I think that the lawsuit ended seven years ago.
And then I haven't worked for that company, in that company, like for eight years.
You know, the secular company.
And there's a lot of ways in which we've never seen reconciliation.
I did go back to the property and prayed over it.
No one knew why I walked in the store.
No one knew that the person who was there had been there when I was there,
but they didn't recognize me.
And so, I was able to walk around the store, and I was able to forgive everyone
and ask that the Lord wouldn't hold it against them.
Everything that they'd done, everything they'd said, I brought reconciliation.
I, God healed me, and I overcame the land.
And then I then gave it to them.
They didn't deserve it.
But I chose that, I chose as a son of God, I'm going to act like my father.
And if my father forgives me, because he wants to, when I don't deserve it,
I will desire to forgive them, even if they don't deserve it.
And they're not asking for it.
And I will stand on their land, in their store, and I will claim, I will ask,
I will declare, because I didn't even ask, I declare to the Lord, I said,
Lord, as a son of God, who has right to have accusation against these people,
I am declaring that no one, not you, Lord, not me, not Satan, not themselves,
no one can bring accusation against them ever again for what it is that they've done.
And I asked it to be written in heaven that all, that everything that they've done,
that they've been completely absolved of, that they've been completely absolved
of everything that they've done.
I need to say that grammatically correct.
So anyway, we don't always get beautiful reconciliation and
and other people we watch in those horrible death traps and we just have to
follow the Spirit and interact with people as God calls us to. But yeah, we
need to follow the Spirit in all the way that the world says that we need to, what
you'd call it, you know, save people from themselves. We can't save people from
themselves. Everyone makes their own free will choice. I don't know if those
examples were what you were looking for or if they were helpful. No, they're
helpful. I'm just, I think I'm like, what were you sued for exactly? Well, I
can't disclose what they were sued for, what my boss was sued for. He didn't
do any of it, but I can't disclose that because that's his deal. But when I was
added to the lawsuit, I was accused of conspiracy. Conspiracy in helping
him do all of the things that he was accused of. Okay. So, and our
lawyer looked at it and said, this is a joke. They said that
they can't prove that they've done any of these things. And then he looked at
the records that we still had and he's like, this is just made up.
He said their cases, they've lied and they've manipulated the
information and he said that they don't have a leg to stand on. And finally, when
the people, a year and a half later, realized they didn't have a leg to
stand on, they finally agreed to settling out of court, which we'd asked
them for for a year and a half. So, but anyway, yeah. But yeah, I was tacked on
later. In fact, I was tacked on because my boss wasn't giving in to their
demands. And so they thought, okay, well, if we can't get him with all of these
things, we're trying to get him to, because they wanted us to settle
out of court as well, but they wanted us to give them like lots and lots of money.
And so he's like, no, no, we're not going to do that because this isn't true. So
anyway, when they accused him of things and he was like, no, we're going to
court on this because none of this is true. When they couldn't get at him, they
thought they'd try to get someone they thought he would do anything to
protect. And he was, he's a very, very good boss. And he, and he wanted to, and
they knew that he would try to protect me from having to go through any legal
issues and having my name dragged through the mud. So they added me to the
lawsuit thinking that would finally get him to cave. Well, of course it didn't
because he and I were on the same page about it. They were like, no, the Lord's
going to protect us and we're going to follow the truth and it's all going to be fine. So, anyway.
Wow. Do you know like why they would do something like that? What their
motivation was to even start this lawsuit? Well, they, essentially it all
came down to money. It came down to the fact that they, that there was a man who
wanted our contract. And so he lied about my boss so that he could get the
contract. And he did. And then a few years later, he turned on the company the same
way that he turned on us. And he invested a lot of money from them. It was, it was
really bad. He turned on them too. So, like I think in all of what you said, you know,
among everything you shared, which I really appreciate, thank you for being
so open about that. And I'm really sorry, I have another phone call, but I can, I
have another five minutes. Is that okay? Is that enough time? Yeah, yeah, that's perfect.
What you, I think to kind of sum it all up, it's like maybe we, maybe just me or
maybe both of us, believe that we're kind of an extension of Christ here on
earth. And we get to be his hands and feet. We get to share his spirit with
people. And when our names drag through the mud or people perceive us a certain
way that's not true, I know I feel like I'm not doing, you know, people aren't
seeing him through me. Like, I don't feel like I'm doing what I need to be doing.
Because they're not actually seeing the Lord through me. They're seeing all this
junk that's been made up about me.
you know I guess just like to sort of finish it off like how do you
I know what you said about like God will reconcile it and everything like that
but how do you be okay with the fact that
people aren't going to see the Lord through you even though you're doing
what you can to shine his light their hearts are hardened or they're
blinded or whatever it is how how do we get to be okay with that
well we um because again God's reputation is in his hands
not ours um so so to speak he in other words he defends his
reputation he doesn't require us to defend his
reputation that's what i'm i mean sure we we um anyway
that's that's just the the basis of it um and uh so he'll defend his own
reputation and we just have to do what we do
in everything which is if God says it well then it's true
so therefore if he says that he's going to defend his own reputation
and he says that he does not hold us responsible for that kind of thing he
just desires us to be to um submit ourselves to him to be
open and willing to um uh to
be matured by him and fathered by him into looking like him and acting like
him etc and then he will take care of the
consequences along the way he'll take care of the fallout or whatever
and we can't control what other people think about God
by how they look at us that's their free will based off of their background their
choices just like we have a have the ability to
choose what it is we do and don't believe about God
they have a choice about whether or not they receive what it is that we're
expressing or whether or not they receive um the
truth truth from God himself we can't control any of those things so
other people's choices are not our responsibility
um we can um it's important for us to reflect our father
but the consequences of us reflecting our father
are not on us they're on their that reputation
belongs to um belongs to him to defend um and we can control what other people
believe about the word no that makes sense and i think sometimes i think
about like showing up where there's going to be one
of these gatherings in the spirit showing up showing i'm
you know in a good place that i'm not who they think i am and like shining
some light and bringing truth and you know all of that
into the situation and i think that's maybe a little bit of why it's tempting
for me not that they look at me and think oh she's doing so great she's so
wonderful but like that i could be in there in the spirit
and actually shift maybe the way that they are
thinking about not just me but everything that all the
bad stuff about me represents which is that somebody else
they might be being deceived by somebody else not that i'm the problem but maybe
somebody else is deceiving them and maybe that would help them wake up
does that make sense um yes yes it does um and
it's one of those things again that we just have to
all of those things sound good and they are good and they come from a wonderful
um you know compassionate heart but what is the lord want because we can
do things from a very compassionate heart
and be walking into a situation that creates destruction
um that that they're not prepared for they're not ready for god hasn't
prepared um their hearts and um
but he loves the fact that we know that that is what he would do
and therefore that's what we want to do um but it's just really truly one of
those things that we just need to rest and rely
lord what is it that you want me to do i don't know what it is you should do
um i do know that that it seems to still hurt you so much
that it is it could be potentially dangerous
for you to go because it's still because you're still triggered and i
don't mean that you have any threat of being pulled back in again
because quite honestly i don't believe that
um but the fact that you are still uh you know triggered to
you know emotionally um is uh is um
god really has to say something point blank usually in
those situations in order for us to know that that's what
he's calling us truly to do
because he appreciates and loves the compassion
and the heart for others,
but his priority right now is you.
Just like he could call you out,
he can call them out at any time without needing you,
without needing anybody else.
Sure, he can use other people, absolutely.
So what we have to know is, okay,
God, are you calling me to partner with you in this?
Or, anyway, that, yeah, God is very jealous of you
and desires to protect you during this time.
I'm not trying to make a judgment call
about what this time and season is for you
when you're walking forward.
I'm just saying that.
I do know that God is very jealous of you
and he desires to protect you
and give you time, healing, and space.
And he can do that for others
and open their eyes.
And he might call you to be part of what it is
that he's doing in all of them.
But, and then there's one other thing,
and then I have to, I have to go.
One other thing, and that is just for you to be,
just for you to know for yourself.
Because I don't know that, I don't know this,
this just popped into my head.
So you take it and you think about it,
take it for the Lord, see if there's any root in it.
And that is just the possibility of,
do you think that there's something that,
because this is often how we react to things,
where we desire to save someone else
and to help someone else see what we've seen.
We, you know, the life that we've been able to see,
the freedom that we've moved into.
There's some, there's ways in which we,
especially if we're going through healing,
that we believe that if we go out
and we talk to other people, it's going,
we use that as a subconscious way to try to heal ourselves.
If we're trying to heal someone else,
we're trying to help someone else.
Usually people are drawn to ministering to others
in the same ways that they've been hurt.
And it's in an attempt to heal something in themselves
by helping someone else heal,
which I would imagine you'd be very familiar with that
with all of your trauma work, you know,
in helping other people and everything
that you've learned about narcissism and trauma, et cetera,
is that is actually a,
I don't wanna say a coping mechanism,
but it's a way that people are attempting
to heal something in themselves
is by trying to do it in others.
And unfortunately, it is a coping mechanism
in the fact that there's a way
in which it really doesn't work.
It can be a bit of a tool,
but in the end, I don't know,
I could be wrong about this,
but I can't think at the moment
that it actually ultimately works.
It can help support and kind of like give someone
a bit of buoyance, but it can't, it doesn't,
we can only be healed by the Lord.
We can only be healed by that accusation being removed.
And that has to be done between us and the Lord.
And so anyway, my point is that I was just thinking
that it could be something that you could think about
and I'm thinking for the Lord,
like, Lord, is this something that I'm doing
in an attempt, but believing that it's subconsciously,
not consciously, but subconsciously,
but I'm seeking something that I desire to be true
that I, and I want to believe it.
And so if I go out and I do this thing,
I think it's finally gonna help me believe it.
I think that it's finally gonna help me
be able to reconcile what it is I went through,
that I'm able to help someone else
or by explaining it to someone else,
I can finally get an ender, I can finally,
I can finally get, what's the word?
I can finally find something to heal me
that I've been desperately looking for
and I can't seem to find it yet.
So maybe if I do this, I'll be able to find it.
Does that make sense?
But yeah, like, I think I do the two things in conjunction,
healing and at the same time, as I'm healing,
it's like that verse about using the comfort
that he gives us to comfort.
for others, you know, I definitely believe
that I do it in conjunction.
I definitely believe part of it is everything
you just said, for sure.
I know, I've just been trying to do both at the same time
because I feel like as I help other people,
even in my coaching, it helps heal me.
A lot of times when we coach people,
it's exactly what we need to hear when we're saying to them.
So, and I know-
Yeah, and it is good, and I'm not trying to villainize it.
It is good.
I'm just saying that ultimately though,
it's only a leverage.
It's not the actual thing that can do it.
It can just kind of give us a bit of a boost,
but it can't actually do the thing we want it to do.
Yeah, and it's all about, like you said,
kind of like the focusing on overcoming
by going deep into it instead of trying to look outside
of ourselves in any way to probably heal.
And now you didn't use those words exactly,
but earlier on you said something like that.
Now, I know you have to go.
So what I was thinking, if you're open to it,
if I'm having a hard time over the next day or two,
would you be okay if I just sent you a Marco Polo and-
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, because I might just want to unpack a few things
that are coming up for me possibly.
Of course, absolutely.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
It was good to visit with you,
and I'm sorry that you're going through this time
because of the fact that they're in town,
but it's times like this
that are the thresholds
that we can really truly choose to take by the horns
and conquer the land as opposed to giving up
or just like, I'll just settle into
just with a standing the storm.
These are the pivotal moments that you can,
that we can truly harness
and never be the same after this weekend.
I was thinking that too.
It's like, I'm getting my own personal development
right now by looking at Jesus
instead of the wind and the waves.
This is an opportunity for,
like, I believe this is an opportunity presented to me
to continue rising above and healing from this.
When it brings it to the forefront of our mind,
we deal with it and we get a little bit further
and a little bit further.
So yeah, absolutely.
It's just about me going deep into it,
discovering some things
and continuing that journey of overcoming.
So thank you.
Just lean on him and choose him.
Okay.
Thank you.
Feel free to Marco Polo me if you need to.
Okay, have a good night.
Bye.