Okay.
Hey,
how you doing.
Got my video.
There we go.
See, can you see me.
Yes, I'm sorry I was not able to answer your.
I didn't get back to you yesterday, and about the thing that you sent. It was very busy day I drove to Colorado 14 hours, and then stopped off see friends for for dinner.
And then it was just one thing and then all of these people ended up contacting me yesterday and so I'm like trying to get back to everybody etc so anyway, it's good that you set up a time to talk today.
Yeah, I thought that might be easier.
Yeah, yeah.
So, um, did you have anything that you wanted to go over before I jump in.
I mean,
did you get my text message yesterday.
Yeah, you're talking about the video right. Yeah. Did you.
That's what I was referring to is getting back to you on the on the video. And yes I did watch it. Yes. So, um, the.
I would. It's one of those things where, because I was already prepared, then I wasn't coming in blind, so I don't know what I would have felt like in the spirit, if I hadn't known.
But I do know that when that I was not conscious when I saw her a feeling anything, but you know that happens sometimes. So, but I did notice some things like in how she presents herself, it's very.
And you can just kind of see some things where there's an element of.
How would you put it.
What's the word I thought of it yesterday while I was watching it. And of
insincerity, where it's very.
I know that she believed what she's saying. So I don't mean insincere like she's lying necessarily, or that she believes that she is.
There's an element, I think, though, that I don't know even how to how to explain how to explain that so just there's an element in which she's just very, very careful about how she presents herself, and it's it's fake.
And so that I could catch that I could, I could see.
And it's very.
Why can I not think of all of the words I thought of yesterday, I was like oh it's that word and that word and that word when, when I was watching her but anyway it's very, very put together very stilted very stiff.
And all about presentation and display, etc. The point my point is that that's indication of a lack of sincerity, and that it's not coming from the heart and the spirit of a person.
It's something that they are trying to present, it's a presentation, etc.
And it's a takes a lot to keep all of that kind of thing together to keep that together for oneself to keep that together in how one presents oneself etc. So there's an element of a lack of security in her, which is very evident already in the fact that how she
interacts with you, or interacted with you.
People try to control other people when they feel extremely insecure.
So I already knew that. But then to watch it and how she presented herself, and that was interesting, but as far as like being able to see, oh, something.
And there's a lack of insincerity there.
And that would make someone kind of think,
okay, I don't know about all of this.
I don't know how, it's superficial.
There you go.
That's one of the words.
It's a very superficial
and just a lack of a depth of substance to it.
It's like a house of cards.
Everything just has to be just so in order to work.
And so she has to work really hard to control things
to keep the house of cards up, which is what a cult is.
I mean, that's why you have,
that's why they require all of the brainwashing, et cetera.
Is this the house of cards and everything
just has to be just so in order to keep going.
I didn't sense like, I don't know how I would have been,
what I would have felt if I'd been in her presence.
I don't know what it felt like, you know,
if I had just watched that video and not known something,
if I would have felt something,
I just know that I didn't yesterday,
but I was already prepared for it,
but I didn't sense anything.
But, and then there was something else
I was gonna say about all of that.
Cause you were asking, well,
how would someone be able to see and know
just seeing someone?
But I can't think of what it was.
It's very easy to be drawn in by that kind of a person
because everything seems sugary sweet.
I've actually been, and I thought about this yesterday,
a friend of mine met me on,
that has become one of my best friends on Facebook.
She and I met December 27th.
We remember the day and we connected on Facebook
and she, and so I went down to Houston to meet her
and everything.
And we started chatting over like Facebook and Marco Polo.
I mean, like every day for,
we'd send like a 45 minute, hour and a half long,
like videos on Marco Polo or, you know, Facebook, whatever.
We really got to know each other
because we realized there were so many spiritual,
that we were going through some similar spiritual seasons.
And, sorry, I'm gonna sneeze.
Thank you.
And anyway, I've been down to see her twice
and she's just precious and we really enjoy each other.
And the Lord has just given us
a tremendous gift in each other.
Well, when I was down there just maybe about a month ago,
she introduced me to some people that she considers
to be her spiritual parents.
And she said, she said,
oh, she was letting him know how she met me.
Oh, I met Ashley.
And she said, when I first saw her on,
and I first got that video from her on Facebook Messenger,
she said, she's like, she said it was very suspicious
because she said, can someone really be that sweet?
So in other words, there's a reason why, like with her,
like with Jamie, what's her name, Kimberly,
why people don't trust it.
It's because it's very, to usually be like that
is very insincere.
Now me, it's just me being me, but I,
anyway, there was an element of it when I was growing up
that wasn't, I don't wanna say it wasn't sincere,
but there was the put on,
that was another phrase I was thinking of yesterday.
So it's a bit of a put on.
There was an element in which, yes, I was,
it was a bit of a put on for me as well,
because I, because of the culture that I was in,
you know, spiritual, social culture,
you had to be very careful about how you present yourself,
display yourself in a particular way.
And so I kind of groomed myself to be accepted
and to be acceptable.
And I stifled myself.
So what came out was this more gentle, more whatever,
you know, because I was trying to be accepted.
I was trying to be enough
and I was trying to be okay with everybody.
And that eventually though, when I found my true spirit,
there was an element of that that's still natural
and et cetera.
But even me, it wasn't, it was a put on for a while.
So that was something that my friend,
when she was seeing me now,
she's just like, I don't know that I can trust that.
It doesn't seem real
because we're used to people like Kimberly
that we see and we're like, that's not real.
Because in my point is that people can recognize
that people can tell when you're being fake.
People can tell when, when,
it is that you believe is only going so far and then the rest of it you're having to make up
in order to convince someone that what it is that you have and what it is that you believe
really is sincere and also trying to be very gentle and kind of like draw people in.
My point in saying all of that is it's extremely normal to be drawn in by that.
It's extremely normal because it feels accepting and it's pulling like gravity and it meets a need
that we have when there's a wound or there feels like a void or whatever.
That's all very normal and it's all very natural and I would imagine even though you haven't voiced
this that you've been concerned like was there some big red flag that I should have caught and
I didn't and I could be wrong but it sounds that over these past few weeks and I've been listening
to you talk it sounds like you're trying to self I could be wrong so I'm not stating this over you
I'm just saying what it is that I was thinking but it sounds like you're trying to self-audit
like where did I go wrong and I shouldn't have how was I supposed to know better and I didn't
and I just wanted to assure you that that's that someone like Kimberly meets a need that
people have to feel loved and accepted and valued and and to be and and to have someone that looks
like that and acts like that and talks like that to find I don't know some kind to validate us in
some way and and spend time with us or see things in us if especially if we see something that we
that we value like oh my goodness if they see me then there must be something like me that I value
in me too but so that's it's very understandable it's extremely understandable and extremely
normal what's not normal is the fact that your spirit persisted that is an indication of a very
sensitive spirit that you had that you were noticing there are certain things that don't
feel right but then you kept doubting yourself and thinking no that you know that that I that
thing that's coming about of me that may not be true and I need to realize that I might be a the
problem and I need to give other people a chance or I need to whatever and so that is a that isn't
normal that's a sign of extreme spiritual sensitivity but the other thing is very if
you squelch that because we doubt ourselves and we think that's me being mean to somebody else
that's me not wanting to give somebody a chance it's me like looking for the problem and a devil
under a rock and whatever and we start talking ourselves out of it and then so is if we talk
so that it's very easy to to to um be uh to be drawn to someone like that very normal um that's
why it's so dangerous because it's normal anyway I just talked a whole whole lot I just wanted to
give you encouragement that that um that it's extremely understandable and to commend you
and encourage you that you have something extraordinary in you that you noticed something
was wrong and to recognize and to acknowledge to yourself that you are not something that in
someone that doesn't need to be trusted in other words you need to you need to know that you have
good things in you and you can trust yourself um and anyway so that's a whole bunch of stuff
so what are your thoughts I appreciate that I think when I first met her my gut said something
was really off um and I didn't trust it like you said um and I had a whole bunch of people
in the cult that were like which I didn't know was a cult but let's call it in the group at the
saying oh she's just because she was really mean to me too at the beginning it wasn't just all
like that video she's very sweet but she targeted me right away and she was very mean um but she
said and other people said you know it's because she's willing to be honest with you so that you
can grow and you can be a better person and you know
She's taken a particular interest in you because you're a mirror to her and she wants
For whatever reason like she's targeted you
And it was like I was this target that was very loved but also like very hated at the same time by her
You're absolutely right
Pardon. Yeah, I said you're absolutely right because your spirit was a threat to her all of those other people
That's why she had to focus on you because you were the biggest threat in the room
That's interesting because
one of the activities that they do at the beginning of
You know this one this when I first met her it was like the second day
They do this activity where you have to pick a buddy in the group
But you have to pick somebody who you've had the most judgment against and you have to tell them what your judgment is
And so this girl
Right away raised her hand out of this group of like 60 people raised her hand and she walked straight over to me and I
was the person first person picked and
Kimberly's like
Oh, well, I'm not really surprised you picked her
There are a lot of people in this group that wanted to pick her because of their judgments against her
basically like how I was this person who was everybody had judgments against so it was in a mean way and
She's like you just disappointed a lot of people in this group who wanted her as their buddy because they're like so judging me and
I didn't understand that and then
She made this girl
Tell me what my her judgment was and then like stare me down and kind of stand up to me
Cuz this girl I guess had some insecurities and then once you pick a buddy you're with that person the whole week
So this girl I liked her. That's the funny thing. I met her at the airport and I was like, oh she's picking me as her
Buddy, that's awesome. Like I really liked her and then all of a sudden she's telling me like what she doesn't like about me
And I'm like what but then Kimberly said wow, you just you just stood up to the most powerful woman in the room
so
yeah, so what you just said so like
she
So she targeted me because because I was a threat to her like one of the activities we did was you you get voted
By 80 people in the group who all end up giving you money if you win and you have an idea
and everybody shares their idea and I ended up winning and I won like
$1,500 or something to spend on my idea and
She was so livid that I won that because she had no control over it and they all voted for me and I won
It was called most influential. So basically if you were the most influential person in the room you won and so
The next phone call I had with her she just ripped me to shreds
She's like, you know, you're using me. You don't care about me. You just want to get something from me and
You're she just I can't trust you
Like who do you think you are just all this stuff like really mean and like, you know
You walk around like a Barbie doll trying to show people how to live life and you have no idea
And you're delusional to think that people would ever follow you for anything and just mean right?
but then she would say, you know, I'm only doing this because I love you and I want you to see the truth about who
you are and and so
That kind of stuff happened to a smaller degree when I first met her
but she also roped me in with things like, you know, not letting me go on the
Zipline I told you that story. Yeah, like weird stuff like that like just strange setups
And then I told you how I talked to a woman who worked with her like ten years ago who was telling me she was
Like the most dangerous woman she's ever met. I told you that
That Kimberly is I?
Don't think so. Okay, so
So this woman she actually coaches people at Bethel
Okay, and she worked with Kimberly years ago and she's very discerning and she knew something was really off about Kimberly
And she didn't
she went to the owner of the company at the time and told him and
He kind of ignored it and then he died and when he died Kimberly took the company over
She manipulated everybody and ended up getting the company including his wife. And so this woman sent up
first time I talked to her because a friend of mine was
Coaching with her and she's like you should talk to Santa like she can give you a lot of insight
This is when I was still in some confusion and and so she said because I said well
I don't understand does she really love people and she's just
Hurting inside so she hurts people out of this brokenness inside her
but she really does want to help people or is she a narcissistic sociopath who
Really is out to hurt people because she's so broken
And she said well, I choose my words very carefully and I I don't say this lightly
She's like I've worked with human traffickers, I've counseled people who've been pedophiles who've done these awful things
And she said, Kimberly's the most dangerous person I've ever met.
And because of the mind control she can have over people and she said I would put her on the same level as Jim Jones.
And you know Jim Jones like the Jonestown thing.
So, I mean, in some ways I got taken by one of the best so that's, you know, I didn't just fall for anything. And at the same time, I can see that because that the insincerity that you're picking up.
That's what's so difficult for me because part of me wants to believe it was sincere because to think that somebody like actually purposely took advantage of me like that, and didn't care.
It's a lot harder to believe, then.
I don't know it's just harder to believe than she actually did and.
Believe or harder to accept. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying, probably harder to accept because I, I didn't.
Because I, I was sincere, it's like, it's like if you and I, you know, developed more and more of a friendship over like a year, year and a half and we hung out a lot and I visited you you visited me and we had this really deep friendship and then all of a sudden
I realized that I was the whole time just pulling the wool over your eyes like totally fake like just manipulating you to try to get something from you or whatever.
How messed up that would feel after believing for a while that this person was sincere, you know.
So, I think I'm still feeling hurt about that. And the fact that I still am heard about it after.
I haven't talked to her now for, you know, two or three months so it's been a little while, but we have kept in contact, not that people know that because I haven't told anybody, but we had kept in contact because I was trying for a little while to see
if it was possible to heal the relationship, and, you know, get on the same page, but it wasn't.
I tried.
And I think this is very set in her ways, and I don't let I don't let people into my life, just to let them go very easily. I, I care about people who are in my life and I tend to have my friendships for a long time.
And so it hurts me that it couldn't be worked out, and that I did care about her and that she really didn't care and that's hard and the fact that she is a cult leader, really at the end of the day, and she pulls people in like that all the time like everyone
who told me she was just loving me and helping me these are all people who are indoctrinated right.
And they all fall for it too. So it's I know it's not just me I only fell for it because everyone else had and they were all convincing me that what I was feeling was wrong, because I was very adamant that first day that she's like projecting she is.
And I told this to the other woman who worked with her who ended up telling her and then in front of the whole group she like attacked me about it.
But I said I feel like she's projecting I feel like she's using transference from something in her past on to me and I said it doesn't feel right the way she's treating me isn't right.
But she ended up winning me over and I feel kind of duped, I feel like, like you said like why couldn't I see it, I saw it, but why didn't I trust myself and what you said to me in one of our other calls has stuck with me about me needing to learn to trust myself more which I have been stepping into lately.
Yeah.
But I guess I'm just obviously still kind of hurt by it, and
I don't know there's still like emotions around it for me.
Yeah.
Well, you gave a lot of yourself to that relationship. I mean the very you know so that it's hard when someone isn't sincere and, and that they're using you.
Well, understand.
I don't think that these things are quite as cut and dry, maybe as we make them out to be in order to try to understand them.
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if you imagine that there was an element of sincerity from her, you know, and, and that you did mean something to her, but in this love hate relationship that she had, because of her own insecurity, and the fact that you were her greatest threat.
and she just would use you for purposes
and that's what the sincerity part was
and then the insincerity part.
So it was all for her purposes,
including the sincerity that fed her in some way.
And then the insincerity that, again, what fed her.
So it's like whatever it is that fed her,
whether it be her being sincere or her not being sincere.
And so I'm sure that there was some sincerity
mixed in there, but anyway.
But here's my biggest point that I wanna make
is what is so hard about these things
is that in the fact that you're like,
oh my goodness, what if she wasn't sincere
and then her not being sincere
is something that's really hard for me to receive
because I was sincere and et cetera.
So it makes us feel very vulnerable.
And here's the thing, and here's what I recommend
that you walk through with the Lord,
that there is an element of,
a tremendous element of your deep self
that you gave her in your relationship.
And that's what being vulnerable in a relationship is.
I mean, we do it with our husbands,
we obviously do it with children,
friends, parents, whatever.
And so when we're being that vulnerable and that open
of like, here it is that I, here I am,
how will you accept me like this?
Then it's very hard,
it's especially hard when they don't accept it
and receive it.
But when they've taken something to go a step further,
when they've taken the vulnerable aspects
of who it is that they are,
and there's an element of it that we give them,
that they then control
whether they're doing it for good purposes
or for malicious ones, which for her would be,
I don't know that it sounds like from everything
that it's probably very, very intentionally malicious.
I mean, it's malicious period.
I was thinking about like the intentionality
and I know that some of it was,
it just makes me very nervous to declare something
over someone that I don't know.
It's all of this.
So anyway, I'm just trying to spiritually be conscientious
of like declaring things
and not declaring things over people,
but this is what it sounds like to me.
So you can just take this and bounce this off of your spirit
and bounce this off the Lord.
But anyway, in having given yourself,
there's an element of a very,
like a very deep place that she was given control
and authority over.
And y'all have separated now in your friendship,
but there's still that open area
or that place that she's had access to,
that she was given authority to
and spiritually that's extremely significant.
Now, it doesn't mean that you're not the Lord's
and that he can overcome it.
The point is that's why you're feeling like that.
And it is an actual problem.
It meaning like it's something that,
because it's a problem, that's why you feel that way.
And God's like, God's very jealous of you.
And he's like, no, no, no.
I gave that part of you to you and me, period.
I have access to it.
You know, the Lord, I have access to it
and you have access to it and nobody else.
And so what I recommend that you do
is to go through a process with the Lord to declare,
because you have a right to declare it
because it's yours, no one else's.
So you don't have to ask God to do this.
You have the right because you own it.
You have the right to declare that it's to take it back.
You declare that, you know, whatever that,
that, you know, you can ask the Lord to,
to, you know, for forgiveness.
And by that, I don't mean we need to be like
groveling in remorse.
I don't mean that.
I just mean like, you know, Lord, you know,
I didn't know to protect myself like that.
And will you forgive me for not,
for not knowing to protect myself in that situation,
for not knowing to protect myself to that degree
for not actually doing it, Lord.
You know, I was a, I was a child.
I didn't, I had innocence.
I didn't know.
And would you, you know, would you wipe that clean?
And I declare according to the authority
that you've given me that I take anything
that I have given her access to.
Anything of myself that I opened up to her,
anything that I gave her the authority to,
to take or to have or to have access to or whatever,
Lord, I take it.
it all back. And I declare that according to your words, that it
only I have ownership, and only you have ownership, and only you
have access to that part of my life, and that aspect of who it
is that I am, and pull it all back. So all of these things are
spiritual. And because you're a spiritual being, that's how
that's what you're, you're feeling, you're feeling
something's, something's not right. Now, she didn't have
access to your spirit, because that's spirit, but aspects of
the soul, you know, that were just like, you know, he's very
jealous. And he's like, Nope, that is yours in mind. No one
else has a lot of access to it. You didn't know. You didn't know
that she was not a safe place. And, you know, it's important
for us to be open and to be vulnerable to our spouses and
etc. But when we're when we're when we believe that we can have
access to it, that we can be that vulnerable with somebody
else's friendships and relationships or whatever. And
we end up giving more than we realize that God wants us to.
And that God intends us to, well, then we'll all we have to
do is just claim it back. I actually went through very
interesting timing. I'm telling you what a lot of the Lord has
has been preparing for this conversation. I just had to walk
through this with someone else last night, that there I had
become aware that there were ways in which I had given
someone else potential access to things of myself, my deep self
that I didn't know I had given them access to. I didn't know
that. They knew it, but I didn't. And so they had. So I
asked the Lord for forgiveness. I said, Lord, I understand, you
know, you know, that I was I was innocent. I was naive. I didn't
mean to do this. I didn't know I needed to be protecting
myself. I didn't know I wasn't protect. I wasn't protecting
myself. And I just ask Lord that you accept and receive my
sincerity. And, you know, and which obviously does, but, you
know, I'm just kind of walking my soul through it to the whole
process of like what it is that I believe in what it is I'm
doing. And I just claimed, Lord, I take it all back. And I
declared that that is only mine. And that that is only yours. And
only you have access to that part of me. So anyway, I just
did that last night. I wouldn't have if I had answered your
question yesterday via text, I wouldn't have it all of that
happened after it happened like late last night. And I would not
have been able to
recognize and what God wouldn't have had a
a point of reference for me to have this type of conversation
to this level where, you know, you're saying, why do I feel
like this? But because of what he walked me through personally
last night, you started talking and, and at first I was like,
well, that's interesting. I wonder, you know, wonder, Lord,
what is going on? Because I was just, you know, my spirit just
talks to the Lord when when clients talk to me, I'm like,
okay, Lord, you know, what is it that they need? And, and
whatever. And, and, boom, that one, he just put that in my
experience. And I just felt like that's what was going on. So
anyway, I want you to know, the background so that you'll, you'll
feel and you'll understand God, God loves you, and is, and is
preparing for you, preparing for you to have what you need when
you need it.
What, what was the catalyst for you to figure out that that's
what was happening with you?
Honestly, it was a friend of mine who noticed. And because
it was a friend that I have given, how would you say it,
that I look to for that I bounce a lot of spiritual questions
off of, and there's somebody that has gone further down the
journey, the spiritual path that I that the Lord has been
shining light on, you know, rest, and, and all of that. And
they're further down than I am, they've walked with the Lord
longer and in a greater depth and a greater measure than I
have. So they happen to be in the same situation with me. And
what they did, what I didn't know is they were aware that
this and this was like a few weeks ago, they were aware that
this was a possibility about this person. But I, but I didn't
so I didn't know we were there together with this person. And
so my friend was there to see, okay, let's see if what I'm
thinking and what I've been sensing about this person,
what's going on really is true. But I didn't know that they were
done. So they were doing I'm just like, Oh, apparently, this
is just what we're supposed to do. And then I get into that. I
didn't know that I was giving somebody access to something.
And it was all very, it's all very Christian, godly and what
In fact, my friend mentioned, Hey, it mentioned, Hey, you know what, this, this person that
did this, they're like, they're not, he, um, my friend said, I do not believe that they
have any malicious intent whatsoever, but I personally believe that that's not something
in you and in me that they should have access to.
So he said from their perspective, and he said, you know, I believe that, you know,
this friend is, is that, that this person's greatly loved to the Lord and is, um, and
everything.
Um, but, uh, and, uh, that they do, uh, amazing things and they have tremendous treasure,
um, uh, and are, and are given the risk, uh, tremendous response, spiritual responsibility
from the Lord, but there's something that they think is right and okay.
And my friend was like, I don't believe that it is.
And so, so they watched me, um, through this thing anyway.
Um, I was like, Oh, wow.
I, I didn't know that that person still, you know, wonderful and sweet and whatever they
had no malicious intent.
Um, my, my other friend believes, um, and, and so we just lifted them up before the Lord
and we're like, okay, well you are, um, you know, you love them and they are at a, one
of my, um, brothers in Christ and, uh, brother, sister in Christ.
Um, but I don't believe that what they walked me through was accurate.
And I was the one who gave them the authority, even though I didn't know it.
So I'm, I'm, I'm the one who takes it back so that I can still be around that other person,
you know, I can do whatever.
I just need to be aware.
Okay.
You know, whatever.
But see, understand they weren't being malicious, right?
Was it just, just a weird question, but does, does this person that you're talking about
have anything to do with you being back in Colorado and going up to this place in the
mountains?
No, totally unrelated.
Completely unrelated.
Yeah.
In fact, in fact, that person wasn't even, um, uh, I need, well, hard to, hard to describe.
Anyway.
No, no, no connection whatsoever.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, no, I appreciate you sharing that because yeah, that's, that's good that you had somebody
kind of recognize it.
And the person who, who did this, did she like, was she just kind of trying to, trying
to get to know you and trying to speak over you and be like, kind of in the spirit with
you, but then it just wasn't like accurate.
Like I'm trying to get a picture of kind of what she, what she said so that not that you
have to tell me specifics, but I'm just kind of curious, like what, what was she doing
exactly that was kind of looked at as not being right or not being good for you or whatever
it was?
Um, well, it's, it's hard to, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to describe, you know, and no,
they, they, it was okay.
So let me just say it like this.
It was very general.
It was very general to an entire room.
It wasn't me specifically that person actually doesn't even know me, but it was just something
that they were spiritually believing that they were encouraging people in and, um, to,
to agree with and whatever.
Well, by agreeing to it, it, um, there, it was, it was each of those people by agreeing
to it, giving it was giving them access.
So it's like, if I was standing in a group of people explaining, you know what, I think
I, I think God put the coronavirus on the planet to, you know, wipe out the population
and everyone's and I'm getting everyone to agree with me type of thing.
And it's totally wrong.
Is that kind of the idea?
Not that that's what she said, but well, um, uh, the, it wasn't just talking.
It was the, we had to, we had to do some actions.
None of the actions were bad.
That was not from, it was just like, we just, we all just had, so it's not just an agreement.
It was like, you then had to act on the agreement and, um, uh, and they, it was all stuff that
I've done before, you know, it's also all very normal and, and godly things, but doing
it under there, um, under there, not instruction guidance, maybe, I don't know, was, um, was
that making, um, was giving them access because I'm following their guidance.
That is.
giving them the authority. That's the problem. So it's not like being in the room. I was, I was,
you know, I was subject to it. No, I have to actionably, I have to agree and, and step out
on the fact that I believe this is true. And then, but it's in agreement with someone else.
It's not, if I had just done it on my own, if I just like, oh, well, because I didn't do those
things. I don't, I interact with the Lord, you know, that way on my own, but this was like
doing it in agreement with this other person. And then like, uh, that was the, it was like this,
this partnering of, Hey, let's do this together. Instead of you doing it on your own with the
Lord and you doing it on your own. Okay. This wasn't it, but it's kind of like praying with
someone or whatever is that this person and I were praying together as opposed to me praying
to the Lord and then praying to the Lord. And then the two of us praying to the Lord together,
it was that kind of thing. And they were leading the prayer. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, Lord,
you know, we're here together for that. That was the agreement because we were coming together to
the Lord. That's why when husband and wife pray together to the Lord is so it's so significant,
you know, it's two people coming together, et cetera. So me doing it with that. There's
this other person where they were like leading the prayer, guiding prayer, whatever. And me
in agreement with them, um, uh, with what it is that they were saying, um, thinking,
oh, they're further down the path than me to do that. You know, maybe there's things I need to
learn to know. And there was no way for me to, for me to know, unless the Lord had prompted,
um, my spirit about something, um, the Lord prompted my friends spirit, a couple of my
friends spirits about it. I did not know that until last night. And so when they brought it
up, it was like, oh, I didn't know that was something I needed to be thinking about. I
didn't know there's something, you know, whatever. So interesting. And, and yeah, I mean, sometimes
something, I don't know if this is your experience, but just kind of something that I thought of when
you were talking is sometimes something can be so close to the truth and it can feel so aligned in
the moment. And, but it's just a little bit off the mark, right? It's almost like the bullseye,
and there's the market mill. It's just a little bit to the right or the left, right? But
it's so close that it seems. Yeah. That's how Satan gets us. If it's too far off, he know it
won't work. That's, that's exactly what happened to me because, and I, I, in a similar, like I let
her in because she was mentoring me. She was coached me. She was somebody I looked to for
guidance on purpose because she had all this wisdom. She seemed so much further along the
path than me, mostly because she, you know, talked about it and the way she acted. It seemed like she,
like, honestly, when I experienced her for the first time, I don't know if I told you this or
not, it's kind of scary to say it, but she reminded me of like what Jesus would be like
if he was walking. Okay. And that's, that's pretty freaky because she reminded me of that and I
didn't catch it at the time, but I was like, she must be so much closer to, you know, him than I
am because spiritually she's so like in tune and grounded and like joyful. And she had these soft
eyes. Like I feel like he would have had just with love. And I bought into all of it and really
believed that she was like the epitome of kind of who I would be if I was the closest to God as
possible. And that this company, this group, their teachings were going to kind of save the world.
And because they were Christians, it was from this biblical Christian perspective. And I was like,
this is so perfect. I'm going to work for them. I'm going to spread this seed and like help their
ministry. It's not a ministry, but that's kind of like what I thought of it as. And so I like,
she was in my life like daily. And I was going to her at the end, like for every little decision.
And I mean, I think I told you about the, how she even had like a way of controlling my sex life.
Did I tell you about that? No. Oh my God. She, um, like my husband and I have struggled in that
area of intimacy. I've, I've, I had my own stuff when we got married that like came up right away
and it was pretty awful. Um, so she knew a lot about the history of us and how I was struggling
and how it was something I really wanted to work on. And so in one of the programs we did, we could
make a goal about, you know, an intimacy goal. So I was like, okay, my intimacy goal is going to be
that sort of in this time period, we end up like sleeping together this many times because it's
something we struggled with. And I knew I needed to take initiative and action on it because I was
too scared. And she knew all that. And she approved.
Well, when we went away for the first for the first weekend with all the other people, the 80 other people, we were all thinking of our goals and I had this one goal, we'd had a conversation a couple days before about it.
And then that weekend she stood up in front of the whole group.
And she started explaining why, like, somebody in the group has a goal around having sex, and that is, we're not going to be doing that we're not allowed to do that.
And she basically completely kiboshed it in front of the whole group about me I went and talked to her about it afterwards and I was like why didn't you just tell me that personally.
And she didn't really have a real reason for not telling me personally personally it was almost like this amazing display of grandiosity around, you know, we don't want it to come back on us, if you know something happened like it was so silly it was with my
And so basically it was her way of at least what I've been told by the therapists I've worked with that was like her one of another ways of her controlling me and controlling my marriage because the more I moved away from Jason and
Oh, there you are. Okay, you were frozen. Yeah, the last thing was the more that you moved away from Jason, then I didn't hear anything.
Okay, the more I moved away from him the closer I would move to her and the more likely I would need to quit my family and go and work for her. And she and I were very close by that point and she she just kept pulling me in more and more and I kept following because I saw her as an authority.
And I saw the company as a company that I wanted to help spread the word about. And so, when I, I ended up choosing a different goal. And then later on, you know, things got better between him and I in the intimacy area and I told her and she did not even
sound happy about it like she just, she's like, Oh, that's good like just very.
I don't know it was weird and so just even little things like that the amount of control that she had over me physically, even like just the way she physically was around me was very controlling like you can't really explain it you would have had to probably experience
it but lots of touching lots of, you know, just weird.
And just felt like it was all consuming like it was just this person who I thought was so amazing who I thought was going to help me.
And indirectly she helped me because God helped me overcome the damage that was done, but I gave her permission to come in and like come into my heart come into my soul I guess and manipulate things how she saw fit because I believed that she knew she knew best or she had the answers.
So,
yeah.
And,
yeah that that's interesting you know trying for her trying to get even into, because in order to control person you have to get, you know, down deep, and one of the elements of that is is intimacy and what's the deepest intimacy that you can have another person, you know, with
So, yeah, that that's definitely that definitely makes sense it's interesting that you talked about the fact of like she would try to physically control.
So, I've got about some ideas about what that can, what that can look like in a situation I definitely understand.
So, but it, it, again, because there are an opening oneself up to someone else and giving them, you know, authority or access or whatever certain parts, there's connections, and there's still connections between the two of y'all.
So, which is why it's like this. And, and I know that you don't that you don't think about, about this all the time or anything and think about the calls and think about her all of the time.
And I think that if there's still such a, there's still such a, such a hurt. There's still such a,
I don't know, a level, a certain level of focus, then it's indication that there are connections that are made in sometimes I've heard of people, you know, they can be referred to as soul ties that you heard of soul ties.
So it's soul ties and stuff. And those can develop from being very vulnerable to someone else and being.
vulnerable at such deep levels. And, um, uh, so, uh, I, again,
I recommend that you go to the Lord and, and, you know,
and declare because you have the right to,
that those things are broken and that they have no more control over you.
She has no access to that, any agreements that you've made or whatever. Um,
and I'm not trying to make this all sound like complicated.
I'm just trying to give you the concept and then you just take that concept and
go to the Lord. And it's actually very, very easy.
What's important is that we have the intentionality and we understand what it
is we're intending to do,
that there are connections and we're trying to break them regardless of what
they look like and how they happened. And the fact that this, the,
the access authority connections,
whatever that create push pull, you know, that, that you've,
um, and, uh, they allow someone visibility even,
um, to, to see and to, because depending on the,
to see into that all of those things are broken and that everything is closed
and, um, that no one else has, has that, that access to you. Um,
or something I was going to say about that, about her. Um,
what was it?
Well, you're thinking of that. I'll tell you. Um, yeah,
I researched soul ties because I wondered about something like that.
And I've definitely agree that there is a soul tie that I've been,
you know, slowly breaking over time. It's been hard. Um, I think,
I think what was probably the hardest in the end was I told you about that
podcast I did on forgiveness kind of.
She, I don't remember that one. Okay. I mean, you tell me about them.
I did a podcast on forgiveness and my friend, um,
she's like a big influencer on Instagram and stuff. And so she asked me,
she was doing a new podcast. She's like,
would you come and do an interview on forgiveness for this whole situation you
just went through? So I was like, sure. She helped walk me through it.
And so I did. And you know,
somehow Kimberly got ahold of it.
I have no idea how she would have found it because it's not like it was like,
there's hundreds of thousands of podcasts. Like I was surprised. Um,
but I mean, I think sometimes they have the flying monkeys that kind of,
yeah, I'm not somebody who's quiet about things. It's like,
I don't know if something happens and I want to be open about it.
I'll be open about it. And so I, I,
the whole podcast was well done as far as me just talking about forgiveness for
someone who had hurt me. And I didn't even blame her necessarily.
I talked a lot about my experience of it. Well, again,
somehow she found it and I found out that she found it and heard it.
And I,
I think that was hard for me because all the information for
her to hear was really good.
If somebody was willing to actually listen and look at themselves.
And I've had friends listen to it and counselors,
counselor friends and counselors listen to it. And they're all like,
you were so grounded. It was such a great interview. You were so,
you were actually way kinder than you should have been.
And cause I'm like, you know what,
I can take responsibility for my part and the whole point of it was about
forgiveness.
So it's about me extending forgiveness through the Lord and not about blaming or
shaming anybody. Well, when she heard it, she,
you know, I was this wrong person. I was this awful person.
I was this person she needed to protect herself from.
And that was hard for me because she makes up this whole story around it about
her being the victim.
And I didn't even like purposely point fingers at her and this,
I didn't mention her name. I didn't mention the name of the company,
like nothing. So for anyone to even know, I was talking about her,
they would have had to have been very close to the situation.
And so that that's hard because number one,
the belief around I'm this awful person that she needs to protect herself from.
And also as crazy as it sounds,
it's like there's never a chance that we'll be able to reconcile.
Yeah. Yeah. And you know,
having that heart for someone is good and,
and a very, and a reflection of your,
your
the part of you, you know, the fact that you look like your father,
that's what I'm trying to say. And so that's good. God has that heart for her.
And, and he, it, she is his very, very precious child.
He, he loves her. He looks on her fondly
because of who it is that she is.
you know, just, although in meaning like she came out of him.
So, so he, she's very precious to him, but she she does not trust him.
She does not.
It's what it sounds like.
It sounds like her.
She lived according to, you know, the freedom of her life.
It looks like she, you know, she does not trust him.
She and she believes that he is the enemy.
She has to look out for herself, et cetera.
Even though she can say and believe in things, she believes all the right things.
Um, and, uh, uh, and so he has a heart to see her restored and reconciled to him,
but that is her choice and he will not honor and put up with the way that she
is, um, the way that she's behaving with the animosity and accusation
that she has against the Lord.
He won't put up with any of that, but he still loves who it is that she really is.
And so what you're talking about is a reflection of your father.
You were looking like your father and that's what God desires.
That was, you know, Lord, I desire for reconciliation.
I see who it is that you've made her to be.
And I would like to be reconciled with that.
But the thing is that if that's not how she is, um, if she's not manifesting
who it is that she is in spirit into her soul and her body, um, and then, um,
and it's not honoring to the Lord.
Well then, and, um, and, uh, there's a, an element of like threat and animosity.
Um, then there's, there's a, there's a distance that needs to be
catching on the soul and the body, et cetera.
So what you can do is obviously, you know, you know, which you've already
done, you're praying for forgiveness and all of that, but also, um, uh, I'm
sorry, would you, um, let me use the restroom just really quick, sorry to
interrupt, like right in the middle of that, but I drank a whole bunch of water
before we got on and a whole cup of coffee.
So after three and a half cups of water, glasses of water and cup of tea and a cup
of coffee, my, my body is just kind of like, can you just give us a little bit
of relief for a sec, just one second.
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
So, um, uh, the, um, okay.
Yeah.
About, about, um, you know, how to look like your father, you know, and
proceed with what it is that you're feeling.
Um, you know, and obviously, um, uh, forgiving, et cetera, but doing what I
was explaining about like separating, you know, declaring all of the separation
that someone can't have access to you, to, to see who it is, uh, to see into
your soul or your spirit or whatever you want, um, et cetera.
And then, and then, you know, praying for her, lifting her up before the Lord
saying, Lord, I know who it is that you've created her to be, um, you know,
to a certain extent and, and, um, you know, looking at her Lord with your
heart, she is, um, you know, she's, she's got tremendous things that you want to
do, uh, ways that you want to manifest from heaven into earth through her.
And do that.
And I, and I pray, pray, pray blessings on her life.
I pray, you know, that, um, uh, that she, that you would reveal her.
to her that she would see how good it is that you truly are, that she would turn to you and choose
you, and so very intentionally, you know, bring your, the aspect of your heart that looks so much
so much like the Father's heart and present her before the Lord like that. Say, Lord, I stand in
the garden for her, and I'm asking that I don't know, Lord, if other people are praying for her
like this, but you have given me the ability to see who it is that she is and, you know, what it
is that she's doing, as well as who it is that she really is, and I'm asking you, Lord, that she be
restored. I am asking that I'm praying for her in a way that maybe nobody else has or is praying for
her, and I'm lifting her up before you, and so I recommend that you do that, and just, and you can
sense in your spirit what it is that you think is appropriate, but just doing it one time very
intentionally, bringing her before the Lord, and then after that, to either not do it again,
or if you do it again, and again, these are just ideas you can take for the Lord. I'm telling you
this is the only way to do it, and you're not doing it again, or because one time is enough.
I mean, think about a king only has to say something once. He doesn't have to keep
repeating it in order to make something happen. He's got enough authority that if he says it one
time, it's enough, but so you can do it, just do it once, or if something, if God brings something to
mind, and you feel in your spirit you need to lift her up again, generally speaking, unless you just
feel something very, very heavy on your spirit that you're like, I think the Lord wants me to
do something more substantial, unless it's like that, understand that what you did was sufficient
the one time, and then from that point on, if you feel like you need to, it can be just short,
sweet, just like, Lord, you know, I give her to you, and I declare that you are pursuing her heart,
and open, make her vulnerable, Lord, to your love, you know, and that'd be it, and you go on about
your day, and you don't think about it anymore, you don't think, you think about it for another
however many months, etc. So I recommend, those are just some ways in which I, I recommend that you,
what, what you do with how it is that you feel towards her, because those are good things,
but keeping, but not, but separating all those ties, does that make sense? So it's a healthy
way to present her before the Lord, without continuing to be emotionally,
to emotionally respond to her in any way, the idea of her, the remembrance of her, the memory of her,
whatever, because right now, there's a lot of emotional response, because there's still all
those connections. So anyway, the, so those are some, those are some ideas.
Oh, you're frozen.
Are you there?
Uh.
Hey.
Yeah, so sorry, as soon as I finished talking, you froze, and then you started talking,
and I couldn't hear a thing that you said, so start all over.
That's okay. Yeah, so I, I felt like, I don't think I've said it out loud, but I felt it in
my spirit that, that kind of thing, like I really, part, partly my prayer is that the company that
is called Clemmer, the company would end up somehow going under, and not because I don't
think that the tools they teach are good, because I think there's a lot people can learn from them,
but I actually legitimately care about her, and yeah, I have prayed that feeling like one of the
the only way she's ever going to be broken free of this, whatever's going on inside her
spiritually is if she's able to not have the company as the focus.
As long as that's in her life, it's replacing Jesus because it's that compelling.
And I'm like, I just want God to break her of that spirit.
And I feel like deep down, like it's weird because she's gone for deliverance weekends
and stuff.
She knows something's not right, but she doesn't know how to break it.
And I, and she won't admit it because I think, I don't know, like, I think she might be further
along than some narcissists are who don't think they have any problem.
I don't think she can admit that she has a problem because she's too fragile, but she,
I think she knows something's not right because of her past and stuff that she went through.
So I, I have prayed, I'm like, God, you know, I don't know how you're going to get to her,
but whatever's going to, whatever it's going to take to open her heart and her soul to
you instead of Clemmer being the thing that she's so focused on that pulled her out of
the depths of despair that now she has to sell to everyone.
But then she, you know, the way she does it is some people experience major transformation
by the way she coaches them.
And I, you know, again, I felt like it's so silly.
And I told you this about watching The Chosen, how it was like, Jesus went around and chose
his disciples.
That's how I felt with her.
I felt like she chose me, like, it's like, you are, I'm going to mentor you, I'm going
to pour into you.
And I was like, me out of all the people here, you're going to pick me.
Yeah.
Choose your, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Yeah.
Totally.
And so, yeah, my prayer has definitely been that God would do what he needs to do to break
her free.
And so I've kind of kept tabs a little bit through friends that are still involved in
the program and how they're doing with COVID.
Because now they don't have people going through the whole series of seminars.
Like they just came here last weekend, but I don't think it was a big class.
Another girl, I found something out last night from my friend, April, who's a really close
friend.
And I think I told you about her.
She had a baby about six months ago that was one pound, six ounces.
Yeah.
Crazy.
So she was in the NICU for four and a half months, like crazy, but she's doing well now.
She's like 10 pounds, but she, she still corresponds with quite a few people that are in the group.
She's in a mastermind group with a few of them.
And so I was talking to her last night about this one girl who I've never been able to
figure out.
And this girl tried to put on a personal mastery because personal mastery is kind of the way
you get people in the door.
So you bring that to your city, you pay your own money, like $1,200 to bring it to your
city, guaranteeing you will have like 20 people in the class.
And if you have 20 people in the class, you get your money back.
But if you don't, then they keep your money.
So interesting.
So anyway, she had brought it to her city and she's a super strong Christian.
And out of all the people that I experienced in the program, I felt like she was one of
the strongest Christians and one of the closest women to the Lord in my experience.
So I was like, how has she not woken up yet?
How has she not figured out that this is not of God, that it's not living in the spirit,
that there's an element.
Now she's not really, people don't figure Kimberly out unless they get really close
to her.
This is part of the problem.
They see the facade, they believe the facade, right?
And so this girl, Lisa, I was talking to my friend April about her last night and she
brought the personal mastery to her city, spent all her money on bringing it there,
couldn't get like anybody that she was close to to do it.
She's brought it before and people were doing it, but all of a sudden people weren't
interested in doing it.
I was like, really, that's so interesting.
And I said, well, then why hasn't she woken up yet?
Why, if she's so close to God, has she not woken up yet?
And I could never, for years, have never been able to figure it out.
Last night, my friend April told me, she's like, oh, well, before Clemmer, Lisa was in
a cult.
And I was like, oh, now it makes sense.
She has gotten indoctrinated to the point where she has believed some cult belief systems.
Now that cult might have looked or been more damaging than this one, but this one probably
teaches similar things because it's personal development and like human potential movement,
right?
Like mind dynamics and everything.
So when people get into a cult, they'll often cult hop.
So they'll get out of that one and they'll find another one and then another one, another
one.
They might look a little different, but I finally realized she was indoctrinated back
then.
and she's still probably so indoctrinated with the belief that she's not able to
kind of see the forest for the trees or see what's really going on because whatever spirit has kind
of latched onto her a little bit or maybe you can word this better than me but I feel like
a spirit has come in through the indoctrination or through the mind control or through whatever
abuse or whatever she's been through and but she wants to be a part of it and when you're a human
being and you're part of a human being movement or a human being group it feels really good and
you almost like I think want to match it up with your beliefs because they're christians who run
this company so you feel like oh like it aligns with the bible right yeah your sense of belonging
community identity yeah but I but the fact that she was in another cult I was like so how would
you explain that would you say because I think in a way like spirits when we leave like an opening
spirits that are not of god can come in somehow like almost like the enemy will when there's like
a foot he'll get a foothold or something and kind of come in and affect us in a way that keeps us
blinded or hardened to what god wants us to see so maybe you can explain that better than me
um yeah and then also what you said um along with the fact that um the the reason that people are
cult hop etc um yeah they're similar they're familiar spirits um in in each in each cult
and it's meeting some need that they're looking for because they're not they're not finding it
they're not looking for it and being satisfied in it from the lord so they need something else
because we're created to need certain things um we're created needing certain things and all of
those things are especially met with met in by the lord um so that the cult identity belonging um
purpose um explanations that's one of the things that people love about cults it's answers um uh
security because the answers give us security um and uh anyway and and just knowing that whatever
things that you don't necessarily have answers for at least you're all in it together
um and uh so like i said there's just a sense of support and structure that makes people feel safe
um so yeah that makes sense that people called hot because they realize that oh something's not
quite right they still look to other cults to fulfill this need that they have because they've
decided this is how i can must rut this is i'm most familiar with getting this need met like this
so yeah yeah no that's true and do you think so do you think in the middle of that cult experience
because it's not of god i don't believe god you know approves of cults or approves of
mind control and all of that so do you think the enemy gets some kind of a foothold in people when
they're in a cult that causes them to be like blinded or hardened yeah it's like what we were
talking about earlier with um with that kimberly is the fact that um is is that it's us giving you
know the enemy access so to speak and um where we can be affected and we we give um uh there and
then there's a blindness that comes over us we've come into agreement with something and the the
agreement is is a very serious thing now yes it can be broken because we declare it to be so
i say that it's broken it's um it's already broken and the fact that you know we're a spirit and
we're in god and all of that but the way that we're operating is that there's this agreement
and it's kind of like um kind of a blood covenant that we've made with a lie with something that's
not of god and that's of this other spirit and that's what coming into agreement is and it's
not just simply like oh and that's why it has its power it it's got the power of a legal binding
document um that that's how powerful and how much authority that what it is that we come into
agreement with has um because or that we have and therefore when we come into agreement it's
it's not just something like okay well this is what i'm going to do today no it's it's this
binding thing to us we can very easily acknowledge that that is not of us and that we're of god's
bloodline and not of somebody else you know and we're not tainted etc so i'm talking about how it
operates in our lives in the soul in the spirit i'm not talking about the fact that it actually
legally binds us in such a way that we can't get out of it. No, God says that it has nothing
whatsoever to do with us, but we think that it does, and therefore it manifests like we think
that it does. That's my point. But it manifests in a very strong way. And so that's what it is
with these familiar spirits is they can get in because we're coming to agreement with things
that are not of God and that are trying to, where we're trying to find, we're trying to
look for provision and protection elsewhere. And coming into agreement with those things,
then it comes into that, that makes a connection between us and those spirits. And
we're going to go find those spirits elsewhere. It's making, it's like what Kimberly,
sounds like Kimberly's doing is, or I should say people, I don't want to declare something
ever so much. What people like Kimberly do is they have made an idol out of the thing that's
out of the process that they went through to heal or to provide for themselves, protect themselves,
et cetera. Like this whole mindset shift in transformation process, it's making an idol out
of it. Where that is now our, we're now looking, it's a golden calf. We're now believing this is
what saved us out of Egypt. And it is, it's making an idol of it, meaning that it is replacing it,
we're replacing God as our protection, provision, identity, and declaring that this thing gives us
our protection, our provision, and our identity. Yeah, that makes sense. I think, yeah,
it's interesting because it is very spiritual. Like my experience of getting out of it was very
spiritual. And my experience of my friends going in and seeing what was happening was very spiritual.
And I, you know, I have learned because now, I mean, even though in some ways, like I feel like,
you know, we're friends, you and I like could be, you know, friends. I also feel like in a sense,
you're mentoring me because you're teaching me a lot, right? So there's some guidance there.
There's some element of me trusting that you are gonna guide me in the right direction, right?
And so what's interesting about that is, I think I've learned so much from that experience with her
that with you, like, there's no unhealthy soul tie. There's no me looking to you thinking that you
have all the answers. There's, it's not like, oh my gosh, I need to talk to Ashley because
she's gonna help me figure myself out so I can be the person I want to be like, there's none of that.
It's like, I, what I didn't do with her was like, test and approve kind of what she was saying back
to the Bible and really in my spirit feel right about it. And so with you, like, I feel that I've
learned now not to give so much, like not, not that I get, like, I'm very vulnerable with you. I'm very
open with you. I feel connected to you. I give you a lot of myself, right? And being vulnerable
and authentic. And I don't, it's like, it's different. Like, I don't have that soul tie.
It's not unhealthy. And I think I learned what unhealthy looked like in that relationship. And
now I can make sure that if I saw myself going there, I'd be able to catch myself or when I feel
that discernment coming up and I, you know, I need to pay attention to it. And obviously with
you, like, I haven't felt any red flags or anything, but with her, I felt red flags right
away and didn't trust myself. And again, like you've mentioned, trust myself. And for whatever
reason, I felt a lot of things in my life that I have not trusted. And now I think that that's the
next, maybe the next place God is bringing me into is a season of trusting myself more and
trusting the things that I feel like he's saying to me or bringing into my life. And, you know,
obviously like I have lots of areas I could grow in. And I just wonder, maybe right now he's trying
to give me some insight into, I don't know, trusting what's going on inside me somehow,
trusting that God can use that or, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's just this
process that we go through learning what does it mean to trust ourselves? And I had to go.
through that process, trying to think,
what are some of the things that I did that helped?
I would, if I thought something was a good idea,
and it could be whatever, it could be business,
it could be with a friendship,
it could be, I don't know, whatever.
If I thought it was a good idea, not logically,
but if it was like this desire within me,
then I would step out on it.
And I just began to do that if I thought,
this is what I want to eat.
And it's a desire of my heart,
not like this selfish desire,
but just kind of like living life.
And how, if I believe that God is a good God,
what do I think that goodness would look like
in this situation?
And then I would let myself do it.
Believing and trusting that if I desire God
to see God's goodness in my life,
if I desire to live a life that is just full
of the manifestation of God being the goodness
of who it is that he says that he is,
and to a vast degree,
and then he said that he loves me, et cetera,
then what would that look like?
What decisions would I make?
Would I eat this or would I not eat this?
And would I call that friend
or would I not call that friend?
As opposed to constantly doubting myself,
thinking maybe I shouldn't do that.
Maybe I shouldn't call them, they might be busy.
Maybe I shouldn't eat that
because it's probably just very, very unhealthy
for me or whatever.
If I began to intentionally choose to trust the Lord
and just understand, okay,
the Lord's my protection or vision.
I'm not in a place of lack.
I don't need to worry that I'm constantly
being beset against and I've got to be on guard
and I've got to be defensive.
If I started letting all of that go,
then I realized that these desires that I had,
I had to learn to trust that they were good things
as opposed to things that I wanted to do
because I was in self-protection mode.
I was scared and I was doing something out of fear.
I began to trust myself when I wasn't in a place of fear
or didn't believe I was in a place of fear
and I wanted something, then I would do it.
Choosing to believe that this is what goodness looks like,
this is what the character of God looks like
and I didn't make this super spiritual.
My point is that just believing in general goodness
and the character of God
and that I house the character of God within me
because I am of his very DNA.
So the character of God and love and goodness
is who I am made up of.
It's not something I took on.
It's something I am made up of.
I can't be separated from it
because it is what identifies and defines me
is the fact that I have this DNA of God,
not that I am God, you know what I'm saying?
And so therefore, I always like to clarify that
because the language that I use can sound very extreme
and so I didn't wanna clarify.
Anyway, and so I began to actually act
on desires of my heart, I say desires of my heart,
things that I thought would be a good idea
or that sounded fun or that I wanted to do or whatever.
While in the background, I was filling my life,
choosing, okay, Ashley, you're not,
there's no need to be afraid.
There's no need to be afraid.
And so now I've dealt with this whole thing of,
okay, Ashley, you're choosing to believe
that there's nothing to be afraid of.
Therefore, I'm not less likely to make decisions
out of a place of fear
and therefore I'm less likely to,
that something it is that I wanna do
is grounded in me trying to provide for and protect myself.
So therefore, if I'm not trying to provide
for and protect myself,
then it's just something I naturally wanna do
that must be a very good thing born of God that I can trust.
Does that make sense?
So, because otherwise, and until I learned that,
I just thought that anything that I wanted to do
must be coming out of my soul
and that my soul was always depraved
and my soul always wanted to do the opposite
of what God wanted me to do
and that's why I couldn't trust it.
But that's only,
if I was living from a, from a, from a mindset and a belief that I was of a fear.
So if I'm getting rid of that, if I am, I'm choosing, nope, there's nothing to be afraid
of.
Okay.
Actually, now that you, now that you believe that there is nothing to be afraid of, I'm
standing here at my kitchen sink.
There is nothing to be afraid of.
So if there's nothing that I need to be afraid of, there's nothing to fear.
What do I want to do?
And I discovered that you didn't want to do different things than you want to do if you're
in fear.
If you want to eat a whole bunch of peanut butter, if you're in fear or a whole, or all
these cookies, if you're, if you're in fear, you know, because it's, you're, you're feeding
some emotional, some emotional turmoil in place of lack and whatever.
So if you no longer, if you think, okay, there's no longer anything for me to be afraid of,
what do I want to do?
Well, I'd still want to eat a little bit of peanut butter, eat whatever amount of peanut
butter you want to, because it's from a good place.
It's from a good place in your heart because God delights in peanut butter.
He delights in nature.
He delights in food, delights in, you know, animals.
He delights in us doing fun events.
He delights in us taking a nap, delights in us watching Netflix.
As long as we're doing it where we're not afraid, believing that everything's out to
get me and I have to protect myself.
I'm trying to escape work.
I'm trying to escape this, but that's fear.
So if, so anyway, that and, and I, I wasn't a hundred percent sure when I was doing things
and I was making decisions, I wasn't a hundred percent sure if I was in fear or not.
So I just had to try and God had grace for me, providing me with a protective environment
spiritually that as long as the intention of my heart was, okay, God, I'm trying to
find you and I'm trying to find me.
Who am I?
What do I want?
You know, and so that, and, and so anyway, I trusting it is learning to actually step
is actually choosing to step out and act on it.
Anyway.
No, that's good.
I, yeah, I definitely want to, I like that idea of like, if it's good, if it's not in
fear, cause I'll often, you know, think about that.
Like I've thought about, you know, it's kind of done and I'm, I'm kind of okay that it's
done, but my friend Julia, who just ended our friendship, she there have been times
once in a while where I think, oh, I just want to reach out to her, but I'm never compelled
that deeply to reach out to her for whatever reason.
I just feel like that's something I get to let rest right now.
And I haven't, you know, I don't know if, I don't even know what the motivation is,
if it's a good place that I want to do it from, or if it's a fear place I want to do
it from, or if it's a partially a, I want to help her see the truth of what she's involved
in and that's why I want to like, it's hard to know.
And so some situations I feel like I can tell and other situations I don't know.
So then I, if I'm not overly compelled, I figure it's not the right time and then I
just let it sit.
Like there were times, there were times after, you know, even after like Kimberly and my
friendship kind of ended, there were times when I still felt compelled to reach out to
her.
And every time I did and we communicated again, I learned something more and I saw the reason
in it.
And I didn't do it out of fear, I did it out of a place of there was something compelling
me to still finish something that felt unfinished or understand something on a deeper level
in my spirit that I didn't quite grasp at the time.
And I knew that if I, if I pressed into that a little bit and wasn't afraid to press into
it because I knew it didn't still have control over me to that degree that it did, then I
would discover something that could help my spirit, that could help me kind of be maybe
in a better place with God because I think there were still things I wanted to work through
around it.
I don't know if that makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, I mean, it is one of those things where sometimes when our interactions
with other people are something that we're trying to heal in ourselves.
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah.
I think that that's what it was.
See, with Julia, I figure I've healed everything I want to heal in myself.
And if she really wanted to talk to me, she would reach out to me and she's the one who
ended it.
So I'm like, okay, the ball's in your court, unless I really feel like there's something
that I need to heal.
With Kimberly, I still felt like there were things I hadn't healed yet that I knew I still
needed to press in and finish.
And I probably didn't. I probably could have gone to God with it and he could have done it too but for whatever reason he used her as this like catalyst in my life for great change, like great change, and I don't
like I, I, if I was willing to bend over and like do whatever she wanted me to do, and just worship her and let her control me I'm guarantee you she would let me come back in her life if I was like, I'm so sorry I've realized like how wrong I was
requires. Yeah, that's what it requires it requires like going and groveling and like begging and I'm just not prepared to do that like I wanted to be able to stand on my own two feet as like my own separate human being, and someone else to, but I feel
like I'm separated enough that I was able to, you know, reach out a few times and communicate from a place of strength to see. I think part of it was just to even know that I had done what I could to try and reconcile a situation that, you know, seemed
like it couldn't be healed and I'm like but God can do anything and if it's meant to be like, I'll do my, I'll put my part in to see if it's possible.
And it wasn't at the time and now I mean I've had her number blocked in my phone for several months now so she's, she's not able to get ahold of me unless she like sends a letter in the mail.
And sometimes that's hard on me too because I'm like, is that okay? Is it, is it out of spirit to block somebody from my life? Is that a healthy choice or should I be leaving it open for God to do what he's going to do or is that like controlling of me to block somebody on my phone? Do you know what I mean?
No, it's not.
No.
I've done that.
Oh really?
Yeah, I mean when people just don't respect your, your boundaries and they keep trying to get at you, you know, and you've tried to handle the situation in a particular way, then it's, it's, it's, you've set your, you've already set your boundary.
And blocking is just, is just, it's an extent.
It is that it's a physical way in which your boundary is being expressed, but you've already said it.
It's just reflecting it, that's my point, it's reflecting.
So it's not like because I wonder, I'm like, is it a decision out of fear that I'm like, I'm afraid that I might reach out to her again or she might reach out to me again and then this would pick up again and I'm not ready for that or is it?
Well, I mean, even, not, not necessarily, but even if it is, that's okay. Remember that we're on a journey and so God doesn't expect us to do all, all this, you know, a child grows up and goes through various phases.
And, and there's this process of maturing and it's like, how do I mature and how do I grow into this other. So, even if you were, even if we do certain things out of fear sometimes it really is, it really is okay.
It's part of the journey.
It's just that ultimately what we need to always be doing is, hey Lord, I choose that you are my protection provision. I'm just learning to walk this out.
And because he doesn't expect us to expose ourselves completely, just because we don't know how to completely be here.
Just do what we can, you know, do, do what we're, what we're, what we're able to do. And so the fear is the, is our best understanding. I mean, like, so if you were blocking out of fear, not saying that that's, that that's the case, but if I'm addressing the fact that you, you were questioning it.
If you are blocking it out of fear, it is a measure, God recognizes it and honors it as a measure in which you are, it is you are stepping out into what it is that he, that you believe that he is calling you to do and how he's calling you to live to the best of your ability of knowing how to step out into it.
Does that make sense.
Recognize God recognizes and honors the intention of our heart that we're trying to look like our father, as opposed to God's not going to help me. And so therefore I'm doing this, you know, yeah, no, that makes sense because I was thinking, you know, when we know that God's our protection and our provision.
So with the protection element, if I know he's my protection, why, why can't I just leave that open and be okay with whatever happens, you know, whether nothing ever happens again and there's never any contact or there is contact for whatever reason.
I know God's protecting me.
So why am I not strong enough in myself to be able to have that just an opening there?
Or is that, I guess I struggle with that because I'm like, if I was stronger in the Lord,
or I really believed he was my protection, then maybe I wouldn't have to take that measure.
Maybe I would, it's not like she's harassing me or anything. Like, it's more just, I want to close
that door. You need it for your soul. It's a leverage for your soul.
There's something.
And that's, that's okay. It's not saying that God's not my protection when I do that.
Well, remember that, um, that you are, you're, you're choosing to, it's important for us,
for you to just act wherever your soul is at. So Lord, I choose to believe this.
And this is, and, um, but this is where my, this is the level to which my soul has faith.
This is the degree to which I believe. Uh, what, what, um, uh, this is the degree to which I have,
I have peace in order to do this and it's okay. It's kind of like this. Do we believe that God
heals? Absolutely. When we have a headache, do we take Tylenol? Yeah, that's what it is.
It's just, it's just, uh, uh, a leverage for our soul is choosing to believe that God's your
healer and God, I know that you're my healer. And I, and I thank you for providing me with
multiple ways, um, uh, through which you can, um, give me relief and I'm choosing to take
Tylenol and eventually one day, you know, we're going, cause we're journeying right now. I'm on
the part of the journey where I take Tylenol. And then eventually I can get to the part of
the journey where I can, I can manage the headache to go away. And so we're currently,
I'm in that transition and sometimes I command, sometimes I take Tylenol and, um, then, uh,
then, you know, eventually, um, it'll be to a point where I just like, nope,
I don't have headaches because I always know I'm spirit, I'm spirit and son of God.
And it's just this journey is this, is this, is this process. So it's always choosing to
believe that what he says is true and then acting wherever our faith is at. And so then we're,
so we're a son of God, regardless of what it is that we're doing. We're, and we're choosing that
we're a son of God, regardless of where it is that we are on the journey. Um, so like if someone
is, uh, uh, if someone is, it's a dog, well, they're a dog in a car. They're a dog on a plane.
They're a dog, um, wearing a tutu. They're, they're always a dog. It doesn't matter. And so
it's the same thing with us. It doesn't matter. We, and we're coming into agreement with who it
is that God says that we are, and then we're operating according and operating according
to the level of faith that we're currently at. And we're constantly progressing. We don't have
to, it doesn't God doesn't debt as long as we're, as we're choosing this God, this is who it is
that I say that this, this is who it is that you say that I am and that I believe therefore that I
am within, we make a choice on, on, um, you know, as to where our faith is that we make a choice
over here. And what God does is he looks at it and he's pleased that we believed him to that degree.
He doesn't look at it saying you didn't believe me to this degree. He degree, he looks at it as
the glass half full, not half empty. He looks at what measure of faith in degree that you do believe
him and how far that you have stepped out. And he's pleased. They believed me to that much.
I'm so glad as opposed to, they didn't believe me enough. We're journeying. We're getting there.
So would, would, uh, would like the ultimate faith be kind of like the epitome of faith?
Would it just be allowing things to come in and out as they do and not trying to block or control
or manipulate anything, but just going, I'm open to whatever comes. If a message comes or doesn't
come, if I, you know, get in the car and it works or it doesn't, like, I'm not going to be in fear
of anything. I'm just going to live my life and be open to the spirit and whatever happens. And I
don't need to have any barriers necessarily. Like, like boundaries. Yeah. Um, uh, that one, um,
well, see Jesus had, Jesus had boundaries. There were certain things that he would let people do
and not let people do in certain, um, he would heal some people and, um, that and, uh, leave
others where it, um, people have read and where it looks like he, he, how do I describe it? Um,
that Jesus chose what he did and didn't do. And he chose who he didn't, didn't, didn't interact
with. Um, but, uh, and what, what flack he would and wouldn't take. Um, so he even had his own
boundaries. So what we're doing is we are learning how.
all those boundaries look when we're operating out of love, because love isn't a free for
all fest.
Love has and has is very free flowing, but there's a structure within the free flowingness.
It's like a river.
I mean, there's, there's water can do whatever it wants to do, but there's still structure
in the element that it's still water.
So it's the same thing with like love and how it operates and how it manifests particular
boundaries is our interactions with other people.
We do have boundaries, what it is that they are and are not allowed to do, what we are,
what we will and will not choose to allow someone to do in their interactions with us.
And if we don't allow it, well, then we remove them, remove those people, if they're not
respecting those boundaries, because that their decision.
And so we are just, we're just expressing a boundary that we've all, that we already
have.
And so people can't do whatever they want to, to me, like people can't come and, and
sexually assault me just because they want to like, nope.
And and so, and I could, I can fight back, I can do whatever I had a stalker.
And, and I think I probably told you that.
So I had a stalker and I had, I've had a blog, I've had to block him on multiple channels
and I've had to do it more than once, because he just won't respect my boundaries.
And, and so I went, unfortunately too long because in, in expressing the boundaries that
I was verbally expressing, I went too long, actually blocking them than I should have.
And anyway, so lesson learned.
And I had someone questioned my boundaries.
He contacted me after I told him not to, I literally told him to never contact me again,
because the situation went on for years.
He didn't stalk me for years, but the situation went on for years where he was pursuing me
and it was just getting worse and worse and worse and worse.
And so I told him, I, it, things got like to here and they had been like that for a
long time.
And finally though, I drew my, I, I finally drew the last straw and he contacted me and
I told him to never contact me again.
And my dad told him that too.
And he didn't respect either me or my dad's requirement.
And he then, I think six months later, maybe, maybe a year later, he wrote, he used a different
email address than he'd had.
And so therefore it wasn't blocked, use a different email address and, and reached out
to me.
Well, I immediately deleted it without even reading it.
I didn't need to read it because I told him not to contact me anymore.
Now I didn't, I don't wish ill on him.
You know, I've submitted him to the Lord, Lord, he's your precious child, whatever you
want to do with, you know, pray that, you know, that you heal him.
He needs tremendous healing, all of that stuff.
You know, like what I was recommending that you do with Kimberly, send it to the Lord,
that he wasn't mine.
He had not been given to me by God to carry.
And so therefore I just, I submitted him.
I prayed for him in a way that I thought maybe nobody else would pray for him, give him Lord.
And then, but so when he contacted me, like, I don't need to worry about that.
I just delete it.
I'm not the only person who's live.
If he needs something, he can contact somebody else.
I don't need to know what he said.
Well, I mentioned it to somebody and I was like, oh yeah, well, so-and-so contacted me
again today and I just deleted it without even reading it.
And they were, they were upset at me.
The very first thing that they said was, Ashley, what if he was writing to ask you for forgiveness?
Are you never going to let him contact you to ask you for forgiveness?
No, because it's not that I don't forgive him, I already forgive him.
That he does not need to receive forgiveness from me in order to be forgiven.
God can give him that.
He does not.
So he's violating it in order for a godly reason.
Absolutely not.
I'm not saying that that's the way I would handle every situation.
Certain situations I would handle with girlfriends.
I don't know about your situation.
I don't know.
That one's, that one's a bit different.
I'm not saying that I know about that situation.
I'm just saying yours is a very extreme one because that was control and soulish access
that she had and all of that.
So I'm not saying that I'm, I'm not talking about your situation.
I'm just talking about like a friend hurt me or whatever.
you know, their situation, you know, that situation would be
different. But with this man, I finally just knew that I had
the right to draw these specific boundaries, and that he was
continually disrespecting. And so no, I didn't, I didn't, he
didn't need to. I didn't need to. Someone does not get access
to me, just because they want it. And even if they have a
quote unquote, godly reason that they're you're using a they're
using godly terms, like, I need forgiveness, I want you to you
because I, I have already released them. And that and they
can get and even if I hadn't released them, they are not
held in bondage, because someone else out there won't forgive
them. God can forgive them. God is the one who can release them
from their from from their, their situation. So my point is,
I've had to learn over over my life. And that's just one
example of where you can draw particular boundaries. One of
the things that I learned, though, is that I did wait too
long. I didn't even have to wait as long as I did. I could have
done it and been justified in doing so justified before the
Lord meaning a long time ago. But I didn't know that. And my,
I didn't know that I had the right to draw boundaries like
that, because I didn't think that was love. And we've done
ourselves a tremendous disservice in the church by not
understanding boundaries and thinking that it's all or
nothing. And, and that's not true. Even Jesus had boundaries.
He didn't write people off. But he gave them over to the Lord.
But it didn't mean that everyone had chosen and how they
interacted with him to what would you say that they had
given themselves to him in a way that respected, respected
his boundaries, and how they were and were not allowed to
interact with him. Like if someone who receives love, you
know, is looking to receive love doesn't mean that they need to
go and abuse somebody else sexually. Like, you see,
there's just boundaries. And anyway, and I know that that's
a very extreme example. But my point is to just, I was just
trying to make point.
I think and I appreciate that, because that totally makes sense.
And I, I think part of me, it's almost like a fear of me not
having the strength if she if she, when she has reached out to
me, and I've had the strong boundaries, there's something
about that relationship that I don't have the strength to keep
the boundary strong when she does certain things, which is
so I feel like, is that fear is am I making the blocking
decision from fear from not being strong enough, like if I
was strong enough, and I was love based and not in fear, I
feel like I would be able to have the number unblocked and
not worry about it, it would just be like another person, but
it still has power over me.
Well, yeah, but you're still growing in that. And you're
still learning that. And that's what I was explaining about the
you just act wherever your faith is at. And that's okay,
you're not going to be there forever. But you are right now,
which is more than you were yesterday.
More than you were 10 years ago. So it's this process and we did
and God doesn't look at us as lack of like, see, she's not
strong enough. He's like, see, she is now strong enough that
she and believes me enough that she's now doing this. Because
and so it is you acting on who it is that that you have heard
from the Lord that he is and that you are, and you're acting
in the measure that you understand it. And to this
point, and you're going to understand it more later. And
so my point is, God honors it. So it's important that you honor
it, that you honor that in yourself, because we're not a
better judge.
Yeah, I was gonna say like, not trying to be further along,
maybe then we are maybe that's part of the problem is I want to
be. I want to be so faithful that that stuff doesn't bother
me. And maybe I'm not quite
which is good. But which is but it's a desire for you know, of
your heart that the Lord is going to fulfill. But it doesn't
mean that we need to see ourselves as a problem until
then. It's just something someplace
that we're going. Um, if, if you are, my brother told me this one time, he's like, Ashley,
he's like, you're always trying to be so much more, um, than your age. And he didn't mean
this like literally like how old I was, he was referring to like decisions I would make action.
Um, my faith, I was always down on myself. It was always, you know, it was just getting
onto myself. I wasn't enough. I wasn't strong enough hearing you talk. I'm like, oh, my word,
that sounds like me talking. Um, uh, and he told me, and so he told me this and it just
really stuck with me. He told me this maybe two years ago, he said, Ashley, he said,
if you're five, it's okay to be five. You don't need to be six. You're not six yet.
He said, if you are five years old, it is appropriate for you to be five. It is not
appropriate for you to be six. And if you are six before you allow yourself to be five
developmentally, you will have gaps. It's like you are very wise.
Good point. Very good point. Yeah, I know. And why do you think that you wanted to be
older than you were like, or wiser or like, why do you, where was the motivation in that?
Do you think? Because I thought that anything short of what I saw as, um, perfection or as
believing, um, having complete faith, you know, all the things that you've been talking about,
anything short of that wasn't, um, meant that I was in a place of lack and that I, um, I was
without God's full approval, love and pleasure. And that I wanted more of it because I felt I
didn't have enough to sustain me. And I didn't know that I already had all of it. And that by
maturing, I didn't gain anymore because you can't gain on an eternal love. You can't gain on the
fact that you already have all of the love that God is not just has, but is, and that I personally
believe it's ever expanding that it kind of like the universe is always expanding. I believe that
God, um, is, is ever expanding. Um, I don't have a scripture I can give you for that. It's just my,
my personal belief. And, um, that is something that we're never going to come to the end to,
um, and, uh, which I know that that doesn't really sound like it makes sense because it's
kind of like, well, isn't God already is, and he didn't like grow, whatever. I don't fully
understand how to describe it. I just, you get this sense that if he created the universe where
it's ever expanding, why wouldn't he be ever expanding where we could never get to the end
of them? Um, not because he's so vast and we're so small and they're so far to go that like it's
always, it's always expanding. Um, so anyway, my point is that if I'm already all of the love that
he ever, and his love towards me, his attention, his pleasure, his delight is, you know, his favor,
his eyes on me, whatever is already to the fullest of the, his very being the essence of its very
being will be in, um, uh, why, uh, then there's nothing else for me to attain to. I'm not in a
place of black. And so therefore it's the kindness of God. Like if he is all of those things, and if
he thinks that way towards me already, you know, why don't I want to mature more if I already have
everything because I'm not gaining anything else. I already have it. Um, I just get to operate in
more and more and more. Um, anyway, but yeah, it was, it was feeling, I was in a place of lack and
he wasn't, um, he wasn't pleased with me and I always needed more. And I was always that anything
short of perfection meant that I was a problem. And so I always had to be more than what I was.
Well, and I love, I love your image about like the universe expanding and God expanding. Cause
it makes me think if God's ever expanding, then doesn't it make sense that we would be ever
expanding too, right? Correct. Cause we're in him. So we're ever expanding. Correct.
They're not, they're not like boxed. Maybe there is no like finish line necessarily. Maybe it's
just like being, being in agreement might kind of be the finish line, but I don't know. I mean,
if God's always expanding, I feel like if we could live every moment of every day in agreement,
that would kind of be in my eyes, like the epitome of being in Christ, like abiding in
him is just being in agreement. Right. Yeah. So, and then probably that agreement keeps expanding
because we keep agreeing to new things because new circumstances come into our lives, new
opportunities to keep agreeing. Right. Right. And then we, we mature to the point where we
understand, begin to understand how to start co-creating with the Lord.
If he is, if he creates and we're made in his image, then we're creators.
And so how do we do that? How do we do that with the Lord and then so we'll be able to over and over, you know, eternity and create more with them.
That's what I personally believe. So, interesting. So it goes from like being in agreement with him. And once we are kind of in agreement with him to this like degree, whatever that is.
Then we co-create with him even more kind of like part of his purpose for us in is coming into agreement and then, because then we are agreeing we're an overcomer we're agreeing that we're victorious.
And then we co create because we're like how would you explain that because he's in us and we're in him, therefore we can because we've come into agreement fully is that is that the idea.
Well, personally, I believe that we co create with him according to, and we can do it right now, according to the degree that we're in agreement with him.
So in our agreement with him, if we're ever expanding.
He's ever expanding we're ever expanding our agreement with him is ever expanding, then our, our maturing to being able to levels of co creating with him is ever expanding and eternity.
Does that make sense. So, where it's not something it's not like okay we agree with him to an extent and once that's done well then this starts.
I think it's that it's it's parallel and it's layered it's like we are we co create with him according to the degree to which we're in agreement with him.
So yes, there's more that will be able to do is we mature and our maturity is the level to which we agree with him and we manifest it and we walk it out and we manifest it into our soul and our body, which is a result of the green.
And then we agree with them is the level to which we can create.
Therefore, if we're already in agreement with him to a certain extent.
There's, we can currently currently are already creating him.
I love our deep conversations.
Yeah.
Yeah, we go like deep deep deep right deep deep that's right. That's the types of conversations I enjoy.
Yeah, me too, for sure. And so you, you're in Colorado now which is right here in Colorado now.
Yeah, which is, I don't know if you can see, you probably can't see a little bit.
I'm up on a mountain in a six bedroom six bath chalet up in the mountains.
It is huge.
And the ski room below it below so it's got five levels. The ski room below is, is, is the size of an apartment all by itself and it's just this.
Anyway, so some new friends that I've made, who invited me up. So there's like one.
I think there's six of us currently I think there's six men, six women, and we're all here at her grandparents chalet.
Yeah, that they built for their family. So anyway, I just got where.
So, it's so funny because whenever you talk about Colorado that's where I did like all of my almost all my climbers summit.
So, it was like we would fly into Denver and then from Denver we would drive up to the Silver Cliff Ranch which was in.
I can't even tell you is way up in the mountains like three hours from the airport.
But, but it's funny because because Kimberly lives in Durango. Okay.
And if you ever stop in Durango and you, you know, run into someone who looks like that woman in the video.
Now I know.
I wonder how I know Durango Colorado. I wonder if I've been to drink.
I don't remember.
Yeah, like I have friends who live kind of in that area I love Colorado it's just the memories.
I'm sorry, but you were, but ask the Lord as much as how to that he would redeem all of those things as much as possible, because all of those things that you've experienced and all of those, those traumas and ways that you were violated.
Those things are not.
Those things are not you. And those things are not.
They don't, they don't have any ownership over you. And there's no reason for you to not be able to go certain places do certain things, whatever.
You are a son of God that has your own free will.
And, and, and God delights in one of his greatest delights is that we execute. According to our faith.
well. So anyway, just something for you to be praying to him and talk to him about that,
because I, I know what that's like where we're, um, um, and hopefully Colorado is not like that
for you, but for me, certain places are tainted because, um, I still haven't owned the fact that
I am a son of God, my own free will, and that those, that those places do not own me for the
memories. And, and therefore I can't be around them or whatever. Um, and I'm allowing it to
have too much power. Same thing with like, like, like Kimberly right now, there's entirely too
much power that she still holds over you, like, even without being in connection. And that
thankfully that's something that you have a choice, uh, meaning that's not in condemnation.
That's meant as a good thing of like, well, that's according to my choice. And so therefore
I can free myself because God has already declared me to be free. So I can come into
agreement with it. And that's that whole like breaking connections, et cetera. So the reason
I thought about all that is the memories related to Colorado is, um, I've just had, and, um, I've
had memories connected to certain things and I still have memories connected to certain things
that certain places that bring memory that bring those things up in me and they, and they trigger
and God's like, yeah, it's that Ashley, I understand because I do understand.
And so I allow you to have distance from this things now, but no, eventually that I desire
for you to operate in the freedom that you already are in. And I want you to know that you have that
much freedom, but until you know that you have that much freedom and allow distance in order
to make sure that you, you live knowing what freedom is like, meaning you don't have to have
pain because you're not being triggered. But then eventually it's like, I want you to understand
that you don't even have to be triggered now that you know what it's like to have freedom
now experience freedom in the place where you used to feel enslaved.
So interesting. It reminds me of this story. So, you know, the story about like John F. Kennedy,
Jr. and his assassination in Texas and, um, No, I don't remember. Wasn't John F. Kennedy,
Jr. or John F. Kennedy? The president. Yeah. The president. Cause I was going to say,
I think that John F. Kennedy, Jr. wasn't that his son. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I apologize. Um,
Martin Luther King Jr. and anyway, JFK. Yes. When he was assassinated in like the Dallas area,
right. Correct. Yeah. I used to drive on that street across the X on this street every day.
Yeah. It's like crazy. I remember when we went to, um, that conference last summer,
we went there cause we were going around Dallas. I'd never been there before.
And so we, um, the guy, I watched a documentary once on the guy who was the bodyguard for JFK
and Jackie on the car. He was the guy that was like on the back of the car and he climbed on
the back of the car. So there was watching this documentary of him sharing that experience and
how he didn't, he couldn't go back to that site for like, I think it was 30 years or 40 years.
He was so scared to go back. And he was saying that when, when he did after whatever it was 30,
40 years, he's like, I should have done it so much sooner because it was so like,
it took away a lot of the power it had over me. I couldn't be there. I couldn't go back to that
place. But once I did, once I looked at the window where the shooter was, once I looked at the spot,
it took the power away from me or the power over me away. And I was like, that's so interesting.
It's almost like when we face it and like go into that moment where it does lose its power,
it's like feeling the fear and getting it anyway. Right. Yeah, correct. So I feel like at some
point, you know, I'll end up in Colorado again to visit friends or something. And it would be nice
to go back there and not have those triggers of like flying into Denver. And because again,
like it was such an amazing time of my life and such an awful time of my life at the same time.
So you have great memories of it. And I have awful memories of it. So it's like, really,
it's weird, right? It's very strange. So I'm, I'm in that place. Like, I don't want these things to
have power over me. So yeah, I'll just be, I'll definitely be seeking God on that. Because I know
he's breaking it day by day, week by week, month by month. He's been breaking this like,
if you would have talked to me two years ago, oh my gosh, you probably wouldn't have even
recognized me. I was still very indoctrinated, still, like beginning of the healing. So I'm
much better now. So I'm grateful for that. And I think it's just not being hard on myself about
the fact that I might not be where
I'd like to be but I'm still on the journey of this is where I am now. I'm five. I don't want
to skip that because that gap that picture was really good from your brother so thank you for
that. You're welcome. Yeah so well have fun. How long are you there for? Almost a week.
Cool well have a good time. I'm sure you will and yeah thanks for the chat. I appreciate all
your insight and wisdom. Thank you. You're welcome. It's good to visit with you. You too
and I'm sure we'll talk soon. Yeah sounds good. You take care. Thank you. You too. Bye. Bye.