So, this is Monday, June 16th, Men's Heart Check-In.
We are in the process of discussing a relationship, new relationship with David here from Las
Vegas and other areas that he's from.
So anyway, as I was saying, the exclusivity part of it, on your side in terms of the getting
to know, being very intentional with one person, that's one thing.
But it does speak volumes to the feminine part, which means if you get really heavy,
if you just say, okay, I'm exclusively dating you right now, no big deal.
But if you keep on emphasizing the whole exclusivity part of it, then it can sound really heavy
to her.
So at this point, how does she feel with regard, obviously she wanted to say, hey, call me
your girlfriend and so forth, but how do you think she feels about, you get the sense that
she is a little, she has a little anxiousness too or no?
Oh yeah, no, we've already kind of covered that ground that she also has an anxious attachment
style.
She doesn't do the heart work program, but she does her own form of introspection as
a Christian counselor.
So at least I know that she's in community with someone that works to keep her Christ
centered.
Yeah.
So you guys are going to work together then being self-aware in terms of this sort of
like anxiousness that you might both be exhibiting or have exhibited in the past, you're just
going to be aware of that and move forward because there really isn't anything to say
no, or there isn't a huge road blocks or obstacles at this point, but you're just enjoying
the journey for the moment, which is absolutely, which is great.
And I'll probably set the land speed, well, not land speed record.
Well, maybe, you know, Toyota Prius isn't all our aerodynamic, but, uh, the furthest
driven for a in-person date with someone.
Maybe, maybe so.
You may have to, uh, you may have to compare notes.
Yeah.
Well, David Vegas, David, you didn't tell David Dorman, like the bit you buried the
lead here.
Um, cause he wasn't in the call last week when you were sharing her Lauren's stance
on the wedding cake.
True.
Oh yeah.
Oh no.
Yes he was.
Cause he was, no, that was the call that he was on for, uh, his, uh, driving his niece
to a couple of weeks ago.
We're talking about like the whole shoving the cake in the face.
Yeah.
Having a cake fight.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Good.
I just want to make sure that one doesn't.
And she's doubled down now.
She's like, Oh, plus we should get like little cupcakes, you know, for extra ammunition.
I'm like, Oh no, it's almost sounds like David's kind of girl here.
Absolutely.
You know, there's, there's still little moments of, uh, not derision or division, but like
just, uh, not connecting or aligning on some things.
Uh, but they're not like heaven non-negotiables like her talking about a theoretical wedding.
She's like, well, I would go with this color and this color.
What do you think of that type of thing?
Uh, or how many bridesmaids I should pursue having at a wedding.
And I was like, Oh yeah, that number's fine.
Uh, I've already got my groomsmen's, uh, suits figured out.
You know, I just have to figure out, uh, who can custom make a Marvel like X-Men Avengers
Marvel suits.
And we all wear different hero suits.
And she's just like, no, no.
How about, how about matching cufflinks?
I'm like, no, no, uh, well, um, yeah, that's it.
I mean, man, you guys are like, you're not sure if you want to define it as exclusive
yet.
You're talking about details of a wedding.
I mean, it came up in, uh, uh, organically, like not forcing into, Hey, we're going to
do this on this day type of thing, but more of like, uh, I'd asked her like, you know,
if you were to get married, would you want like a winter wedding being from a cold state
or a summer wedding?
Some people choose a winter wedding because it's cheaper as well.
Uh, I don't, I don't care about price.
I don't want to get married in snow, you know, but, um, okay.
So it just came up organically.
So, okay.
Well, when's the next time you're going to see her or, I mean, I'm assuming you, you
know, I'm going on a cross country road trip leaving Wednesday.
Uh, I, uh, like I said, I'll see my, uh, buddy get married in Ohio, calm down, David.
Calm down.
And Pennsylvania.
It's close to Ohio.
So you could just-
Yeah, well, it's only six and a half hours from there.
Yeah.
So yeah, jump in the-
What side of Pennsylvania are you from again?
Harrisburg.
So-
Oh, that's Western.
So yeah.
So not too bad.
Yeah, so go there, see her Saturday evening,
possibly catch a movie or just go for a walk.
Nice.
Attend church with her church family Sunday morning.
And then we were just gonna spend the day
with her and her friends,
people that she probably wants to have me around
for like some sort of vetting,
or just introduce me as like her significant person,
boyfriend, all.
Well, this has a lot of promise, David.
This is awesome.
We, you know, celebrate that, really cool.
Anybody have any other questions for David at this moment?
Advice, comments, concerns?
I was just gonna pipe up.
You mentioned you might go to a movie.
I would say like, don't do that, bro.
Cause you're driving super far to see her
and then you guys-
Oh no, I'm gonna pass out probably in the movie.
Oh, okay.
More unlikely.
But she was like,
oh, I really, really want to see this movie.
I'm like, can't we just see it during the day?
Which movie is it?
Mission Impossible 3.
Oh, okay.
Or whatever number we're on for Mission Impossible.
That's a long movie, bro.
A long movie.
It's very intense.
Yeah.
It's got nothing on like the average-
It's highly believable and highly plausible.
No, it's not.
What?
That is the last Impossible mission?
That turns out to be not so impossible?
Just the whole plot itself.
Oh, gotcha.
Okay.
Oh, thank you for ruining that for me,
but I'll probably go to sleep anyway.
Anybody else?
Anybody else got questions, comments, concerns?
Nope.
Bueller?
I do have a question.
Just a conversation.
Just excited for you, man.
Okay.
Thank you, man.
I do have a question though.
She brought up something today about like finances,
like asking me like where my beliefs were
in terms of finances.
Like it's something that she's super into,
like the whole Dave Ramsey,
being and living debt-free stuff.
And like, I don't think I upset her,
but I think like she kind of got shocked
when I was like, well, yeah, I use a credit card
and then I pay it off in full every month
so that I don't have accruing debt.
But the purpose of that was to save up for a home
based on a good credit score, which I just got.
And that's where I'm moving to.
And I had to get a new car
because my car was not gonna survive
being in the Midwest for winter.
But it seems like she's just very like
focused on being like debt-free.
And like, that's the way to live.
That's like the only way to live
is like without credit cards.
And I'm not against it.
I'm just like, well, it's probably not gonna happen
for a few months, if not a year,
before I could get to a point like that.
Because I literally just bought a new car
and bought a new home.
Yeah, no, it's really great.
I mean, a lot of people,
is she just new to that sort of like teaching?
I guess she's like been like listening
to like Dave Ramsey podcasts and such for like the last year.
I know, but she's new to like how long?
What's that?
How long?
I don't think I got a number as to how long
she's been looking into that.
I'm asking because that kind of teaching for some,
depending on what your relationship with money is,
that kind of teaching can be very, very helpful
for people who really need to like really focus
on trying to either get out of debt,
trying to get disciplined with their spending
or even get on a budget.
I mean, it can be very good basic teaching.
I don't know about long-term
how well that serves the individual.
I guess it really just depends
on what your goals financially are.
But definitely, definitely at some point,
if you're going to have to have any ability
to wield finances, the individual, whoever that is,
man, woman, couple, whoever it is,
it's definitely going to have to get a certain level
of discipline and focus with finances.
So it's definitely a good way to start.
I'm not against Ramsey's teachings.
I just don't know that it's that practical long-term
for you to be able to accomplish some of the things
that could be accomplished with responsibility.
So again, all depends on what is your relationship with money at the moment.
Yeah, I'd say I'm stable and pretty disciplined, like to the point of I just, I'm not talking about
anybody, not yours, but oh, okay. Gotcha. Just like, you know, anybody's relationship with money,
but, but those types of conversations, should that be something reserved for
Symbus when we get to that point? Yeah, closer to that, like end of the third level,
exclusionary, even. Into engagement type of, gotcha. Yeah, conversations, yeah. Because
it didn't really make me uncomfortable, but all of a sudden I started feeling like this thing from
Holy Spirit and just talking to me about like boundaries and I'm like, what boundaries? I don't
have any boundaries like with this, like, and it was just like, well, maybe you should. I'm like,
okay, I'll throw this in the heart work group tonight and just check. And so thank you for that.
Yeah, it's good. Anything else, guys? Tag Daniel, you're it.
I think, this is Thomas, unless you want to say something, Daniel, do you want to go,
did you want, did you have a comment or a question, Daniel?
I had a hot take on Dave Ramsey, actually. And I'll just, I'll just word it super strongly. I
think he's an antiquated dinosaur and completely gives bad advice. And I'll say this because my-
Oh, Dave Ramsey, okay. I thought you were talking about my inflatable T-Rex costume collection.
No, Dave Ramsey. No, so listen, I had, I mean, my ex and I, we did the whole like financial
peace university. She even tried to do like the cash envelope system for a little while,
which is just absurd. And like, it's just unworkable. But what happened was around,
I think we had been debt free because debt is dumb. We'd been debt free for like eight or nine
years at this point. And we went to go just see if we could qualify for a home loan. And we had
literally no credit score. It wasn't a bad score. It was no credit anything. It was like not in the
system. So we got a credit card and we did the monthly installments. We actually took her car
and got a van and we paid off most of it, but we had like $2,000 left and we just made
installment plans. And within a couple of years, we had a credit score. I think both of us were
over 700, but unless you're able to do what Dave Ramsey did and save up and pay cash for a house,
which I don't know anybody that can do that today. Unless you can save up and pay cash for a house,
I don't see how the Financial Peace University is workable at all. So I think what David Dorman
said, as far as getting out of debt and getting your finances under control, it's a really good
if you're behind. But if you're trying to get ahead, I just don't think it's workable at all.
Yeah. If you're 12 and 16 and you have your first job and you're just laying down some
financial principles. Yeah. I see what you're saying. I've heard a lot of people have a lot
of different experiences, some of which are a lot like yours, where they come to a point where like,
this does not work. It doesn't work in terms of scaling, in terms of getting ahead, advancing
and so forth. That's what I was referring to is that for the moment, I'm not trying to endorse or
not endorse anything. I'm just trying to say that I understand the financial principles of what
Ramsey teaches basically. And it can be good for depending again, depending on what your
relationship with money is. A lot of ways salvation is this way for some people. I'm
not saying this is ideal. I'm just saying this is what happens. A lot of people come from crazy
Torah backgrounds, family life, whatever, and just have like this, you know, a lot going on in their
past and they come into a knowledge of Christ and they get saved. And then they get super, super,
super strict and super religious. And for them, it works for a minute because there's a certain
sense of fear. It's like, I needed that restriction. I needed that extremity in order to like, keep
myself safe for a moment. Again, not saying that this is ideal. I'm just saying that I've seen this
happen to people. So I don't know if you know anybody like that, that somebody's used to like,
you know, really wild and crazy life and then comes into salvation, comes into some sort of
religion really, and then gets saved. And then now it's all of a sudden, very demonstratively
regimented, rigid, hard,
that kind of thing. It's sort of a pendulum swing that happens and sometimes that can happen with
people and I think that's what a lot of people are attracted to like Ramsey in terms of like
some of the financial stuff but it is true in order to really super like actually come into a
level of responsibility and want to try to get ahead financially there's a lot of different
things especially with the way economics are today in our world. I mean the income levels
and the expenditure levels are not equitable as they were once 20, 30, 40 years ago
and it is difficult so you have to get really creative. There's a lot of creative
interesting teaching and tools out there to really to really utilize to get ahead but
all of it requires a certain level of discipline and acumen that at some point is necessary.
So that's my comments on that but thank you Dana. I mean I know a lot of people who've had that same
kind of experience like they did it all they're like oh it didn't work.
I don't know maybe it did work for a second but then yeah or it backfires because you backfire
you can't you can't get a home loan what do you what do you know yeah or no no but I mean
obviously you outgrew that pair of shoes. Yeah yeah okay yeah that's I think that's a great way
to say it too yeah if you because like if you're living paycheck to paycheck and
racking up credit card debt then you definitely need something uh dire. My artist friend gave me
that analogy a long time ago and I was just like that was very profound. I was going through a
season where I was disenchanted with my spiritual association the church I was at the ministry I was
at and it wasn't failing me as much as I was realizing that just things were changing my
paradigm was changing and he just said it like he goes yeah you know sometimes you just need a new
pair of shoes not like I want to get more shoes because I'm a shoe freak but sometimes you
actually just wear out a pair of shoes and you're like you know what I got holes in these shoes
they don't really work for me anymore I've outgrown them I just need a new pair of shoes and yeah.
Mike Anthony came on screen kind of sounds like he wants to say something. So I concur and I know
when Mike Anthony comes on screen he's gonna see something to say. Yeah he does. So my ex and I
actually I have to say the Ramsey thing was the only thing that got us on the same page.
Wow see so like I do I do like I don't disagree with what you guys have said you know like we're
um it was limited and um but it did help us get on the same page and I think anything that helps
you have commonality or um common vernacular you know where you can actually when you're talking
about the same thing where this means this and this means that the I agree the envelope system
is horrific like we that was terrible right like couldn't do that like we tried like it was like
but it was helpful to get on the same page. Yeah interesting. And so but I do see it being um
I'll grow easily out growable you know and you know a lot of times in relationships we outgrow
them. Yeah. So that was just my you know so it can be a great starting point to get to get unity
and then you guys can grow from there. I think I think it's said a bit so. Yeah I have it I have
an interesting excuse me guys something caught in my throat I have an interesting thought of on a
broader way of paradigm shifts and
finances um
your religious affiliation your um you know your lifestyle
your clothing attire these are all just broad topics of life excuse me um that you that you
shift in I mean you may not think your attire isn't that a big deal but what I'm saying is is that
typically people go through paradigm shifts at least once or twice in their life I think
minimally I'm gonna have to do some more research on this but it is a question that I'm posing
and I'm thinking about a lot because I think it
explains a lot of things.
You have growth.
The Bible says we go from glory to glory.
And people that are interested in growth,
I think those kind of individuals
in the course of their life have maybe four, five, six, seven,
maybe even more major paradigm shifts in their life
because they're wanting to move forward.
They're wanting to grow.
They're wanting to change.
They're wanting to achieve.
They're wanting to grow in a number of different ways.
But I think at least people have paradigm shifts
if they do very little to nothing, at least once,
maybe twice, early age, middle age, and older age.
And when I say paradigm shift, I'm
talking about the patterns and behavior in the way
you see the world.
I was talking with someone the other day.
It was funny because he had just turned 50.
And I turned 50 a number of years ago.
And he was talking about how there were things
politically and issues and things
that were going on governmentally, economically,
that kind of thing.
He never cared about those things prior to 50.
But somehow, some reason, I don't know, he goes,
I don't know, is it just me turning 50?
All of a sudden, I have these passionate,
these things come up in me.
And it makes me angry when I see these injustices
or I see these ideals being put forth and whatever.
So curious to know, guys, what you think of when
you look at growth or change in your life
and paradigm shifts rather than looking at things as,
that's bad, this is good.
Like, I did all the things that didn't work out for me.
That's bad, bad, bad.
And I'm looking for good, good, good.
And either throwing the baby out with the bath water
or realizing that you just had a paradigm shift.
And I was trying to tell a younger guy that I was
ministering to the other day.
He's in his 30s, and he has young children.
And he grew up in a very specific church
religious environment that gave him all of his input
on truth the first 30 years of his life.
And he's a successful dude.
I mean, he's a millionaire, if not a multimillionaire.
And he's in his 30s, and he's got a young family.
He's Hispanic.
So I mean, this is a reason I mentioned that
is because to him, it's very apparent to him
that as a minority, he has been successful
because he's definitely very part of that community.
And it stands out to him that he has
a heart for other people who are like him in their minorities
status to succeed as well.
So he has vision.
He has accomplishment.
He has a small family.
He's considering his upbringing.
He's doing quite well.
But he's struggling to move on from this association,
this religious association, because he sees truth on,
quote, what he was saying, both sides.
And I was just like, how about we just redefine this?
Sort of like relabel this a little bit.
Instead of going, my old church is bad,
and it doesn't have truth, to I think there's truth over here,
or I think there's more truth, or whatever,
why don't we just say, you're having a paradigm shift?
Like you're seeing something more than what you saw before.
And this happens, again, like I said,
it happens relationally.
It happens spiritually.
It happens economically.
It happens professionally.
It happens in a lot of these categories
that we deal with, guys.
Maybe it's just the guys might understand it this way.
It may even happen just in your choice of vehicle.
Like I thought Chevys were great one time,
but now I just love Fords.
And that may be like an anathema to some people,
like, oh my god, that's terrible.
There's no way.
There's Ford all the way.
You know, like whatever.
And I'm just saying that when people make,
I mean, it's funny because even a brand allegiance
can be more stern and rigid than even some of your beliefs.
But you have paradigm shifts, guys.
You come into knowledge and come into an understanding, you come into new
information that doesn't, it's not trying to supplant or trying to deceive you.
It just, it just expands your understanding of what is truth.
And so in a positive way, in a growth way, it's good.
Paradigm shifts are healthy.
They can be really sometimes difficult to navigate and negotiate.
When I was ending my vocational ministry experience, I was feeling the Lord
trying to shift me and move me on, but I didn't have any context for that.
And I felt like, and I had this conversation with God one day, I was
just like, okay, I'm not going to be here in this church that I've been for,
for 20 plus years in this ministry and all my identities here and so forth
and all the different things, but like, and go where and do what?
Like, seriously, like, what are you talking about?
Like, okay, I'm not here, but like, where do you want me to go?
What do you want me to do?
So how many of you have had shifts like that, or maybe even going through
a shift like that in your life?
And you're wondering where are your bearings?
Where's your truth?
It's not that your truth is being challenged.
It's just that you're going through a paradigm shift.
You're coming into a new level and it can be challenging to shift there
because sometimes those paradigm shifts require you to level up, require you
to get disciplined, require you to make hard decisions, require you to
maybe cut some things out, maybe even cut some people out, certain processes,
certain methodologies, certain behaviors, and come into a greater understanding.
And what I think is great, what I've learned about this is that paradigm
shifts can be, can be challenging.
But now that I've done a few of them, I feel like they're more hopeful.
So I'm kind of excited about my next paradigm shift because I want to see it
more hopeful and I want to see it more invitational rather than like difficult.
I don't want to resist it as much.
How's that?
I don't want to get into my pattern of what I think is right and what I think
is this and what I think is that I want to embrace it to, to see if, oh, I'm
coming into a new level of truth.
I'm kind of coming to a, and, and here's the thing.
If you're afraid of being deceived, if you're afraid of coming into something
that is going to be damaging and destructive, then I want to encourage
you that you can trust the spirit of God on the inside of you, leading you into
all truth, rather than being afraid of it, to embrace it and to welcome it so
that you can come into a better version of you, a greater understanding of who
God is in you and with you rather than in opposition to you, and so that you
don't have to feel, uh, uh, you know, you can do away with the shame and the
guilt easier because you're understanding that it's a paradigm shift towards
better, not that you're so unworthy.
Does that make sense to anybody?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And David Henshaw put it in there.
Like at times it can be really heavy and though growth is painful, but worth it.
See, that's what kind of like, that's what Jackie means when she
says we don't need what we don't need easy.
We just need worth it.
Right.
Relationships are hard.
Yeah.
But we don't need easy.
We need worth it.
So it's a powerful lesson, but if we can get good at it, if you can get good at
embracing hard things, things that are worth it, then you can make some of
these transitions easier in the long run and still gain the benefit of the
things that are worthy of you.
One of the greatest paradigm shifts that all of us need to do.
and especially men in this day and age,
is to get beyond, I'm not worth it, I'm not worthy.
And I'm gonna talk a little bit more about this
on Supernatural Saturday.
I think I'm doing Supernatural Saturday this Saturday.
We'll talk a little bit more
about this whole worth worthy thing.
But how many of you, regardless of whether you're going
through your paradigm shift or whether you think
that one's on the horizon for you,
or you did the last one well, or whatever,
how many of you feel like you struggle
with the feeling worthy thing?
Like, yeah, it's great, and there's a lot out there,
I could do this and whatever,
but sometimes I just really feel like just,
I don't deserve it, I'm not worth it,
I've messed up too much, whatever.
You know, it's a little, you know, some things,
like I could have had that, but all that's foregone,
so I have to settle for whatever.
I'm raising my hand too.
I definitely feel like an imposter at times.
Same type of thing, yeah.
David Henshaw's there, anybody else?
Wanna raise your hand for that?
I'll say yes.
Okay, yeah, thank you, thanks Thomas.
You're always a good volunteer, Thomas,
I really appreciate you, man, I love it.
Yeah, so, and there are some of us who,
you know, we've gotten to a point where we're like,
I'm good, my life is good, my life is all right,
all right, and I'm really good,
and there's not too many things that I want more in life,
and that can be okay.
Maybe you're in a season of giving back,
maybe you're in a season of establishment,
and you can do a little bit of looking back
and help other people come into a new level
of paradigm for them, that's awesome.
Sometimes there's things that we,
maybe we don't anticipate,
and so there might be another paradigm
in a certain area that needs to be shifted there too.
Any comments, concerns about
kind of what I'm approaching to you,
because I'm actually really doing sort of a deep dive
on this paradigm thing,
because I think it's helpful to be able to understand
that we kind of like what the scripture says,
we go from glory to glory.
I always heard that,
and when I heard that scripture being preached,
I have to do some more deep dive
on that particular scripture,
but I always felt like that was preached
or talked about as like less achievable.
Like, I didn't feel like I was at glory in the first place,
so how could I go from glory to glory?
It's like, I have to get to glory first.
Does that make any sense?
I just always like, yeah, it just kind of felt like,
it kind of felt too high.
But I think what the scripture is talking about
is that it's not about trying to have this sucks,
this sucks, this sucks, this sucks,
and finally achieve some level of success
to where it's like, okay, my life doesn't suck anymore.
It's about, I know this now,
and I'm doing my best to operate at this level,
and I had a paradigm shift,
now I've shifted into another gear.
I'm shifting up, I'm shifting up.
Rather than viewing everything as that's bad, this is good.
That's bad, this is good.
Because when you put it in that's bad,
this is good category,
then you can't take some of the things that you learned
in your first paradigm, second paradigm, third paradigm
into the next paradigm.
It just Xs it all out.
I was able to take the foundational spiritual truths
that I was able to, that were instilled in me
in my first and second paradigm and my third paradigm
into the paradigm I'm in now.
I'm not necessarily saying I'm in my fourth paradigm,
I don't really know, I gotta count that up.
Sort of qualify it, put some benchmarks in there
and kind of figure that out.
So are you encouraging us to say,
isn't even my final form.
Absolutely, 1000%.
So I've learned to look at adversity as it's good.
And I kind of got it like if you heard of Jocko, everything.
And one of the guys that worked under him,
he said every time he told him something, oh, this happened,
this happened, his reply was, well, that's good.
Yeah.
Versus this sucks, because this sucks.
I mean, if this sucks, no matter if it's like a big cake
fight or something, if you say this sucks,
well, then it's not even fun.
So every adversity, especially as you get older
and you start looking back at all the stuff
that you've gone through, like if you've
gone through divorce or anything else
and there was times when you thought that this was the end
and you'd never get out of it.
And then years later, you look back
and you see that you survived.
And that was a good thing, right?
Yeah.
And you wouldn't be a fraction of who you are now
if it wasn't for that hardship.
Yeah.
And so taking on that attitude of, OK, this is a challenge.
This is good.
And when I get through it and I will get through it,
I will learn.
And I'll learn through the adversity and I'll persevere.
There was a moment during my divorce,
I wasn't completely divorced.
It was very early on in the stage.
And I was living at my parents' house
because of the situation with my ex-wife.
And both of my parents had been divorced.
Most of the members of my family previously, aunts and uncles,
grandma, grandpa, everybody had been divorced at least once
or whatever.
And I just never thought that was going
to be a part of my life.
But here I am in the midst of that, facing that.
My dad, in the moment, we had talked about a lot of things.
But he didn't really have much to say anymore
other than he said this one phrase,
and I'll never forget it.
It's just like what you just said, John.
He goes, David, he goes, I don't know what else to say
in this moment.
But I just want to let you know it's not always
going to be this way.
And that was somehow very encouraging to me.
And it's kind of cliche.
It's kind of weird.
It's a simple phrase.
But it just let me know that it sucks right now.
But your life is not always going to be this way.
You will get through this.
It will get better.
There will be something.
But he couldn't tell me what that looked like,
even though he'd been divorced.
Because situationally, we didn't know
how it was going to come out.
And we all go through things.
That's the things that sucks.
Because if you know exactly what's going to happen,
then lots of times it doesn't suck as much.
Unless there's going to be more pain.
Right.
But at the same time, what I'm saying is it's like, OK,
well, at least I know.
But the not knowing lots of times
is what makes things extremely difficult.
If you trust that you'll be a better and stronger
person on the other side than you would be without it,
and have faith that you will look back at it
and see that it was something that was useful in your life,
even though when you're going through it,
it feels like the end of the world.
But yeah.
Well, I think that testifies to what James says.
Consider it all joys when you encounter various trials,
right?
It's not that the trial, like, yeah, I'm in a trial.
And I think it's worth it, right?
Even with the heartwork.
Sunday, I was at New Church.
The gal that I had asked out totally was being interesting.
She just, she was ignoring me.
But it triggered a, I actually had
a flashback of a previous relationship in that moment.
So that moment wasn't good.
I'm like, I mean, she's just being a pill.
But it triggered something in me where
I could do the heartwork.
So was it easy?
Just doing the heartwork on that easy?
No.
But is it worth it?
Absolutely, because I'm free.
And it was kind of surreal to actually literally
have a flashback in the middle of church.
But there's hard things like that.
But once you deal with it, you're free.
And that's worth it.
And your circumstances a lot of times lie to you.
And your circumstances aren't your identity.
Your identity is in Christ.
And you're a son of the most high, right?
So too often, we're like, oh, this
is what it's always going to be.
It's not always going to be that way.
I mean, it could be raining for 40 days and 40 nights.
But the sun's going to come out at some point, right?
And I always used to try, like, oh, I wish I could get.
Get out of like the spiritual warfare. I go through so much crap, right?
And I was like, you know, Lord, it'd be really nice to just not have this he's like, it's not about getting out of it
It's about not letting it affect you
Yeah, yes, there's things that I used to that used to crush me that just bounce off me now
And so, you know and so that and like and that's just a leveling up in things
you know, there's things that used to get me like especially in
So like when I got divorced
Well, even I just looked at all the things that I was drawn to that were bad
And I'm like, I need to fix the broken parts in me
So I'm not attracted to that now. I see that throwing out the enemy brings that at me constantly and now I'm like
red
You know versus before I'd have been great
I want to eat so it was hard to go through that whole process, but now it's saving me so much pain
right and like and we just level up to where things that
used to
Like we end up growing and not letting things bother us anymore because we've grown above it. So
Yeah
That's some of that. That's some of the thing when I'm talking because when I when I'm saying like, okay, so trials
tribulations hardships
things that sort of like
the
Grinding things that happen to us that change us into different forms
You know, that's part of I believe when I'm talking about in terms of like the paradigm
and
But getting back to that concept the paradigm
That I'm talking about in terms of shifting is
Not trying to avoid the trial and I'm not I'm not saying anybody's saying this what I'm trying to I'm just trying to get back
to sort of a paradigm idea
I'm
Getting good at
Going through the trials and
Not only just not letting things bother you but understanding
The source and
understanding what's truly happening to you instead of oh
I'm being tempted or I'm being attacked or I'm being this and
And reframing that in a biblical sense in a truth sense to go. Yeah, that's actually not what's really happening
What's really happening is something that's very very false. Very very very very not true is
trying to get my attention and
trying to
put me in another direction and
so
Like for instance instead of feeling unworthy about it
You develop a sense of worthiness and you're like, yeah, that's not worthy of my attention
so then a deflection of something that used to be a temptation is
Not something to be resisted as much as it is to be understood that yeah, I don't that's not really like that's not me
You know
So when somebody who used to just fall at every temptation in a certain area and now is this like
water off a duck's back
What changed?
You know what I mean like what changed from that season to this season
their paradigm
they had a shift and understanding of
Either what that temptation was or what their relationship to it was or why they were so disposition to that
Versus how they perceive it now
How they deal with it now how they pursue, you know, does that make any sense of anybody
Like can anybody answer that question? Like what changed? What's the difference?
Usually a paradigm shift is I mean I'm talking about like so like the example of like temptation for instance
Well, you see you take responsibility where before you'll your thinking will be
Oh, this is happening to me. I have no responsibility
This person brought you know, I drank and this person brought alcohol and it's their fault, you know in the paradigm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah be that I'm in control of that
I'm in control of that. If I do it, it's me. It's not anyone else and take
Radical responsibility for your actions and you know, it's not like you made me mad or oh they did this
It's like I allowed them to push my buttons and gave away
Interesting, you know, I gave away my responsibility for my reactions or my emotions. Yeah
Yeah, well, I think
Go ahead
I mean I was gonna say there's a couple things that come to mind with that specific example, David
where, I mean, you could have the paradigm shift of just how ugly and painful sin is to God,
having that revelation happen. You can also have the revelation of just how good and wonderful
and all-encompassing God's love has been to you before, during, and after those times,
and just that shifts in your mind to where you start making those choices like, you know what,
I'm not going to take advantage of God's love. I know how ugly and painful this is to Him and how
ugly and painful it is to me. So, I mean, those are just two things right off the bat.
Good. Thank you for that.
Well, I think your question, David, was like, what is a paradigm shift,
fundamentally? Is that correct?
Yeah, but I was kind of using the example of kind of like, for instance,
yes, I'd like you to talk about paradigm shifts, but the for instance was like
someone who was dealing with temptation and falling at every moment versus now that doesn't
affect them is like, what changed? My answer to that was like, they had a paradigm shift,
but what was different there? So, I guess, indirectly, the question is like,
yeah, what's a paradigm shift? What does it mean?
Well, I mean, there are a lot of different opinions about that, but my understanding
is that generally paradigms are considered to be mental frameworks and mental filters that we use.
And the question of, I mean, which to me kind of goes to that verse that says,
be transformed through the renewing of your mind. So, I think like psychologically speaking,
that can happen a few different ways. One is if your sense of narrative changes in your place in
the story, like some people have talked about and like you were talking about with that guy
who turned 50, maybe he's living in kind of like a different narrative. Some of it can be emotional
healing, perhaps, that causes change of thoughts. And then as Christians, it seems like we also
believe that there are spiritual dynamics. So, maybe the healing of one's crushed spirit or
something along those lines would be kind of some of my hypotheses.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because I'm coming from a standpoint of like paradigm being
like a set of fundamental
assumptions that you have about like the way things are or what truth is or
how your life is. You know, a lot of people
script their underlying truth or their foundation of what they believe is right,
wrong, or the way things work is based on how their life has been up until that point.
Would that be something that generally is agreed to? Most people,
without having any source of outside foundational truth, like an absolute truth,
that still is hard to reconcile sometimes because a lot of our life experience sometimes doesn't
line up with that. Sort of like, I hear what you're saying, but my life experience has been
and for the most part, if we were to be honest, we make all of our decisions and all of our
behavior patterns based on some of those decisions and things based on the paradigm in which we're
living. And it's not until that paradigm is shifted circumstantially or shifted in some
moment of truth or understanding or some trial or tribulation or some sort of life-altering moment
that we have a greater revelation or a different understanding of what is true or what is right
or what is the way things are. I guess that's what I'm talking about is when you're having,
because the shift is like something's different. But the paradigm is the part where like,
this is the set of assumptions that I have right now. And from the set of assumptions are everything,
my whole life comes out of every decision, every understanding, the way I look at the world,
the way I frame relationships and what's happening to me. You know what I'm saying?
That's kind of where I'm coming from, from this whole thing. So I hope that brings some clarity.
Well, I'm thinking they took some flat earthers to Antarctica.
to track the Sun and a few of them had paradigm shift where they oh shit the
earth's not flat but that's a paradigm shift but I'm glad you brought that up
I've been thinking about flattock the whole time like just how there's there's
serious yeah there's like well there are like well-meaning Christians that look
at the scriptures and say okay like there's flat earth language in the Bible
that must mean that the earth is flat because how they view God and how they
view the Bible that's their frame of reference but then you have others that
you know understanding the historical context of when it was written their
paradigm was probably the earth was flat and that's why they framed the language
that way it is whereas now because of technology and all the other things that
we've been able to do and learn we know with verifiable evidence and it's not
yeah just thing it's interesting how we got to flat earth you have people who
think that everyone everyone's trying to get over on me everyone is this and
you'll be with them and they'll be all did you see that person do you see what
they just didn't know I didn't notice it because they're trying to verify their
beliefs and their views of how they're treated so they're looking for every
little cue to find that where the person who thinks everyone gets along with me
and you know I have a good time they'll have a whole different experience yeah
that's that would be an example of two totally different paradigms right right
until that one person accepts that oh you know I'm probably wrong oh look yeah
no and starts to look in question is old paradigm and then goes yeah hey look my
friend they're always nice and I'm with him and they treat us the same and then
his you could steer whole life will change if you change that attitude yeah
yeah you're looking for validation that nobody likes me and that that guy was
rude to me to hear and this person looked at me funny and yeah you know
John you're describing what you're describing made me think of something
there's a terms that's escaping me at the moment but it's the opposite of
paranoia and it's this this fixated belief that everyone is out for your own
good so I I think it just sounds great yeah this actually I don't I'm not a
professional but I mean I I've I've heard that that's like a that's a subset
of paranoia actually when people have a paranoia that everyone's out to get them
and yeah kind of fascinating
anybody else got some revelations some understanding I'm just throwing out this
topic because I'm trying to just have some discussion around it because I
think I mean I think that I'm thinking about doing a deep study on it but go
ahead Thomas thank you yeah if Pete I mean based on what people are saying I
mean our brains are exposed to 9 to 11 million pieces of information per second
to my understanding but we can only focus our own we can only be conscious
of around 40 and we can only focus on between 7 and 11 so so so we do kind of
we even even when we as humans are looking at the same pool of information
we are our brains because we've been trained it to filter starting I think
from I'm correct from around three months old you know we're creating those
filters but I think David it sounds like you you were asking like what's it to me
it sounds like if we're seeking kind of those paradigm shifts what can we do
there's an interesting book called surfing the edge of chaos about like
kind of chaos theory and business and one of the main themes is title pools
and how cultures and life forms tend to really grow and thrive and become
resilient when they are running into life forms that are different from
themselves and figuring out and there are probably different times for
different things in different seasons with the Lord but I think it's kind of
exciting to realize that if we are willing to expose ourselves to kind of
new things new ideas new people like Jesus said be in the world but not of
the world I feel like for me a lot of the times when my paradigms have gotten
very stagnant it's when I haven't been in the world and kind of bumping up
against stuff where you know where my my mentality can be like oh wow this
contradicts like this very dearly held belief like I've been carrying around
yeah yeah that's that's interesting that's a very that's a very interesting
powerful because my the work that the question that's come up in my heart
about paradigm shifts
is primarily focused on people in terms of their life
and their spiritual journey, and helping them to, I guess,
and specifically men, to, I guess,
come out of some very archaic sort of functional thinking
and work their life better.
I'm using weird terms because I don't
want to use cliche terms.
If I was saying cliche terms, I would just
say I want men to come out of religious thinking
and quit being bound by a lot of the things that have been
pervading modern Christianity.
So that they can find fruit.
What's that?
The Christianese.
Yeah.
Because I want to come out of that,
because I believe in a large part
there's a lot of that culture, language, behavior, ideology,
history.
I mean, there's so many factors to it.
It's not just one particular denomination, or this,
or that, or whatever.
But it's just a lot of that that is really
hindering for well-meaning men.
Good men that are just hindered.
Because they're not, number one, I
feel like there's been a restriction on masculinity.
And religion plays a part of that.
And I feel like that there's not a freedom.
And I'm not talking about trying to be
some toxic masculine sort of bring the man thing back.
I'm not trying to go there either.
I'm trying to have an honest conversation about helping
people reframe their thought process.
And for some reason, this word paradigm
has just been stuck to me.
When I describe, for instance, when I describe,
oftentimes I get introduced to new people
I've never met before.
And they say, hey, who are you?
What do you do?
I said, yeah, my wife and I, we have an online coursing
in community business.
And it's called Last Year Single.
And we help people prepare for marriage-minded relationships.
And they're like, oh, cool.
And sometimes we go further in the conversation.
If I'm talking to someone who I feel
like would understand the believer life or church
or that kind of culture, I'd say,
yeah, I used to have a vocational ministry
career for about 20 years.
And then my paradigm shifted.
And usually, when I say something like that,
they're like, oh, OK, I understand.
Because they're thinking, you don't do ministry anymore.
But you haven't left the faith.
You're still a believer.
But you do business now.
And things are different.
You understand the world differently and this approach.
And now you're doing this.
So it's a simple way to like, hey,
how did you get from here to there sort of thing?
But what I realized was that in sort
of that word and that paradigm, like when my friend said,
sometimes you just need a new pair of shoes,
that was the thing.
It's like that's oversimplification
of a very profound truth that said,
I came to a certain point.
And when I left the ministry that I was in,
I left it because I finally said to myself, I love y'all.
God bless you.
I feel like I've come to the point
where like we're beyond 50%, meaning
that every organization, everything,
all this kind of stuff, no one can ever be perfect.
But I feel like we're beyond the 50%.
Like I feel like we're doing more harm than we're doing good.
So I've got to bow out.
See you later.
God bless you.
I love y'all.
But I got to go do something else.
And whether I was right or wrong,
it was the calculation and qualifying
that I made in order to make the paradigm shift.
You see what I mean?
So it was required for me to understand that, OK,
here's a new season.
I got to move on.
But if I say new season or if I say religiosity,
if I say all this thing, it brings up
all of this architecture of language
that then you have to overcome that, too,
in the midst of trying to have this discussion.
Well, you know that paradigm shift.
and shift it to pivot. Yeah, that became that became the
buzzword paradigm is an older word that was used probably in
the 90s, early 2000s around that. Then it became pivot
around COVID or whatever we pivoted. And but I think the
heartwork is a paradigm shift or a pivot because like for men or
women, because whatever your attitude is towards the other
sex, when you start doing the heartwork, you start realizing
that you need to change your thinking. Or you're gonna stay
where you're at. Yeah.
So I love that.
Well, I hope you guys have heard my heart. And I hope you guys
have thought about some things. I hope it's maybe stirred some
some conversation in your own heart and mind about
you know, what you believe. I think I don't do a lot of
testing and a lot of
confrontation in what people believe. I, I believe that's
more of my wife's job and other people that I know that are
confronters. People that confront things like they just
like, yeah, they just confront it. They're just go after it.
You know, all the time. And I love that those people have an
anointing to do that. I don't really have a calling
necessarily to do that. I'm more of the, let's talk about this.
Let's discuss this. Let's find out interesting things. Let's
you know, whatever. I don't know. But I appreciate you guys
having a discussion with me tonight.
What just came to me is repent is kind of like paradigm shift
or, or it means it is right or pivot.
It is because, because repenting is literally having a new way
of thinking a mind shift, right? Where you're like, like, oh,
yeah, that doesn't like, instead of feeling bad about it, like,
oh, I need to repent. Like you realize when you come to
yourself, that is not working for me, right? Therefore, I'm
turning away from that. And so anything that's trying to like,
go there with me, just that doesn't, I've grown beyond that.
And so now I am turning away from that and I'm repenting.
Yeah. Because, yeah, just like most people, especially in a
very religious context, the word repentance was something I had
to do. Like, I have to repent, you must repent. I'm like,
what does that mean? Sounds like a lot of hard work. Sounds like
an impossibility. Sounds like something I can't achieve.
Turn it from. Yeah. And so many people are stuck in that.
And anyway, any more thoughts, any last thoughts?
May all of us be blessed with good paradigm shifts.
Yeah, that's true. Thomas, hey, maybe, maybe we should write a
book together.
I do love writing. We can, we can, we can talk about it. But
I'm not a fan of writing. I'm not a fan of writing. I'm not a
fan of writing. I'm not a fan of writing. I'm not a fan of
writing. We can, we can, we can talk about it. But yeah, we'll
see.
Every kind of interesting. All right. God bless you guys. Have
a great, great night. Good, good discussion. Good topic. David
wish you well in your new relationship. That's pretty
cool. We're celebrating. Yeah.
Oh, no, David is are you going to show up for the cake fight?
Just just for the cake fight. Not the wedding. Okay, that's
fine. Just for the cake fight.
I was just me. Jackie doesn't believe in that. I get triggered
by the cake. You know why? My first marriage, I think the
bride, my wife, she was not very happy with me at the time. And
so it was very passive aggressive cake fight or cake in
the face. Yeah, that's
that if you if you see the bride just shove cake in the groom's
face all over the place that she's pissed somehow. Yeah. And
it won't end well. But that's yeah, I think that can be that
can be a shift that paradigm, john. Yeah, I know. When I got
married the next time I was I nicely put the cake in her
mouth and she didn't mind.
My little heartwork action. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Thanks
for leading us tonight, David. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Are
you coming to Northern Cal or you stay in SoCal?
We're staying in SoCal. I actually leave on Wednesday to
go back to Austin for a few days. And then I'm coming back
to the same spot for you gone to Crystal Cove down there.
Yeah, we've been there to Chris. Okay, that's really nice. Yeah, and and the the burger place on the oh, yeah
I love that. Yeah the Shake Shack
Yeah, now we were I was by that a couple times last couple days nice I
usually take a cruise out of
Newport out into the into the bay
It's it's pretty you go on group on it's pretty cheap and you see dolphins and sometimes I see whales
Dolphins and stuff. It's fun. It's like two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think we actually might do one of those when you come
It's only like 30 bucks. Look on Groupon. It's not bad. It's Captain Davies locker or something like yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Captain Dave's good
Well, yeah, yeah, it's so it's always fun. I always do that
Awesome. All right guys. Have a good one. God bless
All right. See you guys