Hey everybody, welcome to Wonderful World of Remnant Radio.
In this program, we're talking about the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
It's going to be an exciting program.
You guys stay tuned.
You've heard it before.
It's the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
It's a fun and important doctrine within the Christian faith.
Some believe it is a second blessing that happens after conversion, and others see it
as synonymous with conversion.
We're going to weigh into that today.
We're going to be talking about what Pentecostals think about this issue.
We're going to do a deep dive into the text of Scripture itself, kind of pulling through
all of the various verses that mention the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
We're going to be talking about the Day of Pentecost, the significance of that, the promise
of the outpouring of the Spirit in the Old Testament.
And then we're going to finally conclude with, man, are we arguing on semantics?
Do we generally agree with everything, but we just disagree on words?
All that and more we're going to be diving into in this program.
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I want to introduce to my co-hosts, my partners in crime.
I've got Michael Miller and Michael Roundtree with me today.
Miller, you are no longer overseas in European countries.
You are, you're in Missouri, is that right?
Not in my studio, though.
Yeah, I'm in Missouri.
Okay.
So, how's it going over there in Missouri?
I mean, good.
I just got here.
So, yesterday, I was with Roundtree in Denver.
I got back on Monday, went the next morning with Roundtree to go hiking a mountain, and
then flew out to Missouri this morning.
And then I'll be in Chicago tomorrow, and then Atlanta the following week.
So, I got quite a bit going on.
And then I don't travel for a little while, which would be nice.
Are you out there with Robert Gentry?
Yes, I am.
Cool.
Yeah, I'm heading out there in a couple weeks.
And then maybe we can convince Roundtree to go, too.
Who knows?
I think he is going.
I'm going.
A couple weeks after you.
Oh, nice.
You get the whole clan out there in Missouri.
Who would have known?
Yeah.
So, we went hiking.
First, I actually preached in Miller's church on Sunday morning, and then Sunday night,
we did an equipping night, talked about prophecy, so really cool.
And saw a really awesome healing, a guy who had a serious sprain of his ankle like a year
and a half ago, and it basically just never healed.
And it affected his line of work, and it was just a lot of pain that he was in.
And spent quite a while praying over him after the Sunday morning service.
And he experienced moments where it seemed to have felt better, but it wasn't something
you would call a healing.
And I just said, well, you know, Luke 17, the lepers were healed as they went.
Maybe you'll be healed as you go.
And so, got a message later that day.
In fact, the wife came back to the meeting that night and said, my husband was totally
healed.
He's amazing, and he's so excited.
And then he sent a message saying, this was one of the best days of my life, because it
was really painful, and the pain was completely gone.
So that was really cool.
And stuck around with Miller, actually on Monday, I played golf with my son, William.
So I brought my 13-year-old, because he just had a 13th birthday.
So I took him on a man trip, played some golf in Denver, and then hiked a mountain.
Then he hiked a glacier, man.
Your son hiked a glacier on a mountain.
Yeah.
11,000 feet up.
It's pretty intense.
Yeah.
It was hailing on us.
It was really like, kind of like climbing Everest, pretty much.
Okay.
Sorry.
That's my charismatic exaggeration for the day.
Was it really hailing?
Or are you just trying to make it sound tougher than it was?
Yeah.
Okay.
That part's true.
It did start hailing off and on, but it was just like pelting us.
It wasn't like big hail.
Anyway, speaking of outpourings, I think that's our subject for the day.
Well done.
There it is.
Good job, buddy.
Yeah.
There it is.
Yeah.
So talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit, and it's something that there's a lot of debate
about and a lot of people in my circles will just kind of assume, well, yeah, everyone
who's charismatic believes that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a subsequent.
experience like you're saved, then you kind of, you know, have not that great of a Christian
experience for a while, but then you experience an outpouring of power from on high.
And then after that moment, you are more sanctified, you speak in tongues, you have more power
in your witness, etc.
And so now a lot of people have had an experience that could be described in these ways, like
they've experienced some kind of greater power after a greater encounter with the Holy Spirit,
which we fully affirm.
But at the same time, we'd say, you know what, there's a lot of people within our camp who
believe theologically that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is simultaneous to conversion,
not subsequent to conversion.
And so we're going to kind of wrestle through this debate and in a way that I hope expresses
charity to all sides while also affirming where we stand on it.
So there's my little tee up introduction.
Josh, you want to take us into our show notes or either of you guys want to add anything
else to what I said?
Miller?
He's unmuted.
No, I mean, I think, yeah, sorry, I try to mute it because I'm using my AirPod instead
of a mic.
So I don't want there to be all the background noise.
Yeah, I think this particular topic ends up being really controversial, mostly because
of how meaningful it is to people when they, you know, before they weren't experiencing
much in the way of gifts of the Spirit, but then they have some sort of experience and
afterwards they are experiencing more of the gifts, or at least now they're more open
to those gifts and are pursuing them.
And so we don't want to in any way invalidate those experiences.
In fact, we want to encourage those experiences, saying that, you know, believing that that
is something that happens in our Christian life on occasion.
I don't think it happens all the time.
But when it comes to doctrinally where we stand on it, we're going to be slightly different
while still affirming those experiences.
Yeah, that's right.
So the classical Pentecostal position, and I was raised classical Pentecostal, was raised
in the assemblies of God, other denominations, such as the Church of God and the four square.
Those are classical Pentecostal denominations, right?
Think not buns and skirts, not the oneness Pentecostals.
These Pentecostals are like, hey, we believe in the gifts of the Spirit.
And we believe that there's this kind of subsequent evidence that empowers believers in that gift
called, well, experience called the baptism of the Spirit.
And there is a subsequent evidence in those communities.
They would agree that with evangelicals, that salvation, at the moment of salvation,
there's an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
They would appeal to verses like John 3, 5 through 6, unless you're born of water and
the Spirit, you can't inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8, 9, anyone who does not have the Spirit doesn't belong to Christ, doesn't belong
to him.
Ephesians 1, 13 through 14, when you believe you are marked with the seal, the promised
Holy Spirit, who's a deposit guarantee for your inheritance.
So they would affirm all those verses.
And they would say that's the indwelling of the Spirit.
The Spirit comes inside you, lives in you, rests in you.
All believers who have come to faith, they would say, you have received the Holy Spirit.
Now subsequent to that, some might ask questions like, have you received the full gospel?
Have you received power?
Have you received the Holy Spirit?
And what they're asking typically isn't that kind of indwelling work of the Spirit.
What they're asking is, have you had power from on high that comes upon you and empowers
you in the spiritual gifts, that gives you power for witness or boldness?
This is called, in their worldview, a baptism of the Holy Spirit, that experience.
Pentecostals believe that after conversion, that the believer can receive a second distinct
experience called the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is primarily for empowerment,
for service, witness, and not regeneration.
So empowerment for mission, that'll be like Acts 1, 8, you'll receive power from on high
to be my witnesses, impartation of spiritual gifts, seen in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14,
because the accompanying power that happens in the accounts that they go through Acts,
they'll say, look, the Holy Spirit fell upon them.
And when the Holy Spirit fell upon them, you'll see these signs of prophecy in tongues.
So one, it gives you power, two, it gives you spiritual gifts.
It also deepens your intimacy and your relationship with Jesus.
Some Pentecostals will agree with that articulation, others might feel uncomfortable by it, but
they would affirm, like Romans 8, 26 through 27, likewise, the Spirit helps us in our
weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes
for us in groanings too deep for words, and he who searches the hearts knows what is the
mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Many, and again, I don't want to say all, but they would look at a passage like Romans
8, 26 through 27, and say that the work of the Spirit here is that tongue speech, which
they would say is an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
So why would you need the baptism?
I've already come to salvation, I already have the Holy Spirit.
Well, they say, well, you need more, you need more for power, you need more for spiritual
gifts, you need more because the Spirit will pray through you.
seems to be some scriptural basis that they're going to look to to say these are verses that
talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I've monologued for a little bit, so I feel like I
should turn it over to you guys. Who wants to tackle some of the Pentecostal proof texts for
baptism of the Holy Ghost? You're both muted. I can start us out. So yeah, and I think a fair
case can be made. So we call this second blessing theology. So the first blessing being conversion
and the second blessing being that extra empowerment that comes afterward when you're
empowered with the Holy Spirit or baptized with the Holy Spirit. So I think a reasonable biblical
case can be made for this, and if you hold to this, I think, I mean, these are the scriptures
that you're going to go to. You're going to go to Acts chapter 2, and you're going to say, hey,
these disciples who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they were already regenerated. They
were already believers, and it was subsequent to their conversion that the baptism of the Holy
Spirit fell upon them. Then they're going to look at Acts chapter 8, and you see a similar event
where you have the Samaritans in this case. So first we had Jews. Now we have Samaritans as the
gospel is radiating outward to different people groups, just like Acts 1.8 says, to Jerusalem,
Judea, Samaria, and the ends of the earth. So now we're in Samaria and Philip's preaching. A bunch
of people get saved and baptized, and even miracles are poured out. Demons are shrieking as they leave
and healings and all kinds of supernatural phenomena, but one supernatural phenomenon is
particularly lacking, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's not until Peter and John come and
lay hands on them that the Samaritans receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and so the argument
goes, look, these people were already saved. They were already baptized, and subsequently the
baptism of the Holy Spirit fell upon them through the laying on of hands and prayer, and so this is
a model for us. Then they'll look at Acts chapter 9, where Paul is saved, but it's a few days later
when Ananias comes, praise for him, and he receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit,
although there it's called the filling of the Holy Spirit, which is a whole other episode.
Baptism versus filling, are they same or are they different? Man, I wish we could park there,
but we'll keep going. Acts chapter 10 actually becomes one that is harder for the classical
Pentecostals to explain, because Peter's preaching and the Spirit falls upon the Gentiles, so now
we're at a new people group, not Jews, not Samaritans, but Gentiles, and the Holy Spirit
falls upon the Gentiles as he's preaching, which shows an event where the baptism of the Holy
Spirit and conversion coincide, so rather than this second blessing, it seems to be all rolled
into one with conversion, and so you have the evangelicals on one side saying, look, Cornelius
is normative, because they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time as conversion,
and you have the classical Pentecostals saying, well, that's the exception, not the rule. The
rule is, look what happened to the Jews, look what happened to the Samaritans, it was subsequent to
conversion, and thus the confusion. There's one more text that occurs in Acts chapter 19,
where the Ephesian 12, 12 men receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but there's debate over
whether they were saved or not, because if they were already saved, then that leans one way,
and if they were already saved and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it leans
toward the Pentecostal view. If they were saved in that moment, and baptized in the Holy Spirit in
that moment, leads to the more common evangelical view, but Acts 19 is the other one. So that's the
basic proof text. Did I miss anything, guys? I would only add to that, is that Michael is
articulating the best, and I think rightly so, I said the best of his ability, might sound like a
jab, but rightly what I would call the Pentecostal position, right? So he is saying, oh, we see the
baptism here of the Spirit in Acts 8, we see the baptism of the Spirit in Acts 9, the baptism of
the Spirit in Acts 10, and the baptism of the Spirit in Acts 19. I would be very clear, Michael
is describing what the classical Pentecostals would teach. He's not saying that is what the text
itself says. In fact, if you go to all of those verses, with the exception of Acts 2, none of them
have any evidence for the phrase, baptism in the Spirit. That phrase is missing, which I think
is extremely important. So anyway, I digress. We're just trying to give the Pentecostal position. I'll
turn it over to Miller, and you can talk about what you like about the view, what your thoughts
are on it, that kind of thing. Yeah, well, I think there's merit in the fact that they're pursuing
more of the Spirit. And so you see it in several different passages where Paul prays for that very
thing. In Ephesians 1.17, that the Father may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation and
knowledge of Him. In Ephesians 3.16, that according to the riches of His glory, He may grant to you,
be strengthened with power through the Spirit in your inner being. And you've also got Paul writing
to Timothy, 1 Timothy 4.14, telling him not to neglect the gift that was given to him at a later
time. And then 2 Timothy 1.6, he mentions another.
gifts that was given to him. He sees this all as a good thing. And then in Romans 1.12, he says,
I long to see you that I might impart some spiritual gifts. And then you've also got the
apostles having another encounter with the spirit in Acts chapter four. In fact, I think you see
Paul on three occasions gets filled with the spirit and Peter on three occasions gets filled
with the spirit being different words, different experiences. But the point is this, what they're
pursuing is more of the spirit. And it does seem like that is a thing that is advocated for. I
mean, they even advocate that you'd have times of refreshing by the spirit. And so the idea of
subsequent experiences we affirm entirely, I affirm entirely. And if anything, I think it's
advocated for in the text. But that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with their usage of it.
Like you mentioned earlier, the passages being used aren't actually talking about the baptism
of the spirit. Well, they're not using that phrase. Although I do think Acts chapter 10
is a baptism of the spirit. And same thing with the Samaritans, although the term is not used.
So that's important. And maybe to chime in here too, that I think, so Josh, I would actually,
yes, that is how Pentecostals describe it. But maybe you and I differ on this because I would
say Acts chapter eight is describing the baptism of the Holy Spirit, even though it doesn't use
that language. And the same for Acts chapter 10 and the same for Acts chapter 19. I find in the
book of Acts, sometimes it'll use the language of baptized. Sometimes we'll use the language of
poured out, fell upon, came upon, a gift that's given or the Holy Spirit was received. And I see
all of these as being part of this sort of vortex of vocabulary meant to describe the same phenomenon.
And you see the same, like take Acts chapter two, like everybody agrees that's the baptism
of the Holy Spirit because Jesus says, hey, in a few days, you're going to be baptized with the
Holy Spirit. And then Pentecost happens in Acts chapter two, but then when it happens in Acts two,
it doesn't say they were baptized in the Holy Spirit. It says they were filled. And so I think
Luke can use different vocabulary to describe phenomena with the Holy Spirit. Although I think
where Pentecostals do err, and this is my trying to express a humble opinion here, is that they
overmarry baptism and filling of the Holy Spirit, that they can occur simultaneously. But I think
this different vocabulary kind of creates this part of why we have this debate. And as Miller
pointed out, Peter's filled with the Holy Spirit three times, twice in Acts chapter four alone,
and then once in Acts chapter two. So I would say the filling of the Holy Spirit is a
repeatable empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Paul's filled in Acts chapter nine, as well as in Acts
chapter 13, but sometimes the filling and the baptism can overlap. But I would say that those
instances are actually baptism of the Holy Spirit, so maybe you disagree with me on that.
No, no. I think Acts 11 affirms it as well. Yeah, I think we would agree that what is taking
place in the events where people are getting saved is a baptism of the Spirit. What I think
is important, though, is that as we're approaching those texts, I learned this from a lexicographer,
actually the one that discipled Michael and Michael both. I don't get any credit from this guy.
I'm just quoting Jack. So Jack Deere would say like, hey, if you want to figure out what a word
means, right? An lexicographer, if you don't know, is a guy who like studies Greek and Hebrew and
tells you what that word means in English, right? If you really want to know what a word means,
you go and find an author's use of a word, and you go find every time he used that word,
and you try to glean from it what that word means. So in all of the accounts, and we're going to find
this in our little next section here, you're going to find that the words baptism of the Spirit,
when it's describing an event, most of the time, it's looking forward to an event,
an event that's not actively being described in that moment. When you get two verses that define
the event, you're going to see that they point in another direction. So I actually have no problem
with acknowledging, hey, when the Samaritans believe they were baptized in the Spirit,
or when Paul is, you know, encountering Christ and is being filled with the Spirit in Acts 9,
I said, Paul, I meant Peter, when he goes to the Gentiles, when he goes to Cornelius's house,
right? But all of those examples, I would say, yeah, that's a baptism of the Spirit,
but the text doesn't call it that. And I think it's important that we first define our terms,
what is baptism of the Spirit as described in that language by looking at all those verses,
and we'll do that here in the next section. Rountree, do you want to take it from there?
Sure. Okay. So let's dive in a little bit into the Pentecostal view of
baptism of the Holy Spirit. Well, we've already begun doing that, but kind of taking a closer
look at baptism with the Spirit. So John chapter 1, verses 33, it says,
he on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
So this is John baptizing Jesus, and he's saying, hey,
Famous verses, like the one who's sandal I'm not worthy to untie, he's going to baptize
with the Holy Spirit and fire.
And you see that language in the synoptic gospels as well.
Here's Mark 1a, I've baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
And so John the Baptist suggests that his baptism is one of like ceremonial cleansing,
but that Jesus is coming to give you a greater baptism, which we learn is a baptism with
power.
So Matthew 3.11, he'll baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire, Luke 3.16, the
same thing.
And so what you see in context is that the fire of baptism, well, scholars are kind of
split on this and I'll just kind of give my input.
I think the fire speaks of judgment, you know, John the Baptist will speak of like the ax
is laid at the root of the tree and anyone who doesn't bear fruit is going to be judged
and that kind of thing.
And so I think that there's this connotation of judgment mixed in with the baptism of the
Holy Spirit.
Maybe you guys can comment on that a little bit, because of course on Pentecost, you see
the Holy Spirit, whenever he's poured out, that there are tongues of fire over their
heads.
What do you guys make of that?
I mean, I've got two different texts.
I mean, when I pulled up all my Logos commentaries, it was a 50-50 split on this issue.
I tend to let the literary flow of a given text trump hyperlinks to other texts, if that
makes sense.
So if I'm just reading the text as a flow, you mentioned, he's going to baptize you with
the Holy Spirit and fire directly following that, or maybe it's right before that.
He's going to gather his wheat into his barn and then he's going to burn the chaff with
unquenchable fire.
So as I read the text, I go, hey, the literary flow seems to be that the baptism of fire
is connected to this chaff burning picture.
But there are passages in the Old Testament that speak of God's purifying fire, that when
he pours out the Spirit, he's going to come, he's going to clean with like a refiner's
soap and yeah, Malachi 4, and the refiner's fire that he comes in and takes care of all
of the impurities.
And you could make the argument that maybe it's both, you know, maybe he's purifying
his people with this fire while burning others with judgment.
Sure.
Why not?
It doesn't really change, I don't think, the flow of the text too much to make it one way
or the other.
If I had to pick a side, I'm going on the side of judgment.
I'm going 70-30.
I'm not like absolutely convinced, but I'm pretty convinced.
And yes, I see the tongues of fire in Acts 2, but it's saying tongues as a fire.
It's descriptive of like what the Spirit is doing.
It's not, it's not a wooden literalism, literal fire was present.
But Miller, you got any thoughts on that?
Yeah.
I think I'm with you guys on the judgment component of it.
But I also think of the passage about anything done against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be.
And so it does seem like the rejection of Christ, which would also lead to not receiving
the Spirit, the baptism of the Spirit would result in judgment.
And so the fact that those are sort of put next to each other, either the reception of
the Spirit or unquenchable fire.
And also when you look at other texts, when it talks about unquenchable fire, it's usually
not talking about refining.
It's talking about a permanent judgment.
Yeah.
And in the language of baptism, like to take water baptism for a moment, like in the waters
of baptism represent a passing through the judgment of God and rising up above it with
resurrection life.
And so, and that's how water is represented throughout the Old Testament.
It's not the only usage of water, but, you know, Israel passing through the Red Sea,
for instance, in the waters of judgment, falling on everyone, Noah in the flood.
So you see water consistently in connection with judgment.
Now you have baptism in not here water, but fire.
But I think it does speak of this similar reality of that having placed our faith in
Christ, we pass through the fires of judgment.
And I do see a hyperlink with the flames over their head.
It's like they've passed through the flame and not been consumed by it.
And now they're proclaiming judgment and repentance for people.
And so it kind of bleeds into this theme of empowerment as well.
So I like to harmonize views, but let's keep moving through because what we've been doing
is we've been looking at the references to baptism of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament.
And just to keep going, Acts 1-5, John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the
Holy Spirit not many days from now.
So this is Jesus on his way to ascend into heaven, which is a really key text because
it's really connected to Jesus' ascension.
You'll see in Acts chapter 2, verses 29 to 36, that it's Jesus from the right hand of
God having ascended, who will, having received the Holy Spirit, pours out this, which is
you both see and hear, and so it's because of the Ascension that Jesus can
pour out his Holy Spirit. So the Ascension wasn't just about
transportation to heaven, it was about the exaltation of King Jesus where he
received the Holy Spirit to pour out upon all flesh. That plays out in Acts
chapter 11, the same quotes gonna be repeated because it's a theme in Luke
and Acts as well as all the Gospels, but Peter speaking, he's relaying the story
of the Gentile baptism of the Holy Spirit to his Jewish friends. He says,
much good stuff there, but this is again like it clarifies, and Miller you
referenced this, that even though Acts 10 doesn't use the language of baptism
the Holy Spirit, I think it uses the language of poured out, it clarifies in
Acts chapter 11 that was a baptism of the Holy Spirit, and Cornelius's story is
really instructive for our point of view, but we'll come back to that. The last
textual reference, and then I'll just give it over to you guys, is 1st
Corinthians 12 12, and this one's unique because it's in one of the epistles, so
it's really hard sometimes to determine like what theology is a narrative
teaching us, and so sometimes you'll hear people distinguish between
descriptive texts and prescriptive texts, and the epistles tend toward
prescription, whereas the narrative texts tend toward description of what happens.
We can derive theology from them and should, but we have to be a little extra
careful that we're not cherry-picking, and 1st Corinthians 12 12 mentions the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, and here's what Paul says, he says, for just as the
body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are
one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one
body. Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and all were made to drink of one Spirit. And
so he'll parallel the baptism of the Holy Spirit with drinking of the Spirit,
but most notably, when he says we were all baptized in the Spirit, he
connects this to our inclusion into the body of Christ, and that's also going to
be an important verse for us to come back to. I don't know, I mean, we can dive
into these verses now, or we can kind of save it for our reflection section,
whatever you guys want to do. No, I think it's appropriate to do it now. I mean, if
you go through all these seven verses, again, the first five of seven, these are
all seven references of the baptism of the Spirit in the New Testament, all of
them. The first five are talking about a future event that has not happened yet.
So it's not as if someone spoke in tongues and they said, look, that is the
baptism of the Spirit. They're looking forward to a future event. There's only
two passages here in Acts 11 describing when the Gentiles came to salvation,
calling it the baptism of the Spirit, and 1st Corinthians 12 12 through 13,
calling that the baptism of the Spirit. Now, the Pentecostal could look at Acts 11
and say, no, no, no, when it says baptism of the Spirit, I saw the gift that was
given to them. That was the baptism of the Spirit. It was a unique circumstance
where both things happened at the same time. You only really have two verses you
can work with to define what you think the baptism of the Spirit is, because
the other verses are pointing to a future event. Only one is saying that was
the baptism of the Spirit. So even if you could say Luke 11 15 through 18 is
pointing towards the tongue speech as, oh look, that's the evidence of the
baptism of the Spirit. You can't do that with 1st Corinthians 12 12. I would
submit what harmonizes both passages is if you take 1st Corinthians 12 12 through
13 and say, oh, if you've been a member of the body of Christ, you have been
baptized in the Spirit, that means that salvation is the baptism of the Spirit.
And if I connect that new covenant salvation to Acts 11, that harmonizes
both. So I think the Pentecostal interpretation might work in Acts 11, but
doesn't work in 1st Corinthians 12. But the interpretation that it happens at
salvation works in both 1st Corinthians 12 and Acts 11, which is kind of what has
compelled me to view the baptism of the Spirit as the event of coming to
salvation. Now, I've got Pentecostal brothers and sisters out there, they're
gonna be like, what about Acts 2? They were saved and then they received the
baptism of the Spirit. I'm gonna argue kind of in this next section that
actually those two events are one in the same. They were saved under the Old
Covenant and did not receive the baptism of the Spirit until the inauguration of
the new covenant. But I've chatted a little
But on these verses, Miller, do you have any thoughts that you want to add on the commentary of some of these passages?
Yeah, and the only thing that I, well, it's a big, it's a big bit to add into this, but it's also worth paying attention to.
So in First Corinthians 12, it is talking about the gifts of the Spirit.
He starts off the chapter saying, now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don't want you to be ignorant, unaware.
So then he starts talking about all these things and he reminds them, hey, it's one in the same spirit.
And we've all been baptized by this, into this one spirit, into the body of Christ.
So he's connecting, placing us into the body of Christ with this baptism of the spirit, which is a salvific thing that takes place, us being in the body.
But being in the body also means that we come with different gifts.
So I wouldn't deny that the baptism of the spirit, I would in no way say that the baptism of the spirit isn't connected to gifts.
In fact, I think it is connected to gifts.
I think when you come out of the waters of the Holy Spirit, you're now in the body of Christ, which makes one of you a hand, one of you an eye, one of you a foot.
And so one of the things I would add to this is that there's no such thing as a giftless Christian.
And then if we're to talk about the inauguration of the new covenant, then there's a number of other texts that we can pull from, from the old covenant, talking about how this new covenant reality is going to come and it's going to come with the giving of the spirit.
And how that old covenant, only a few people were given the spirit.
We've got kings of Israel, prophets of Israel, judges of Israel, some of the priests of Israel, but by and large, it wasn't given to all of the people of Israel.
But in the new covenant, that's going to change.
And there's a number of Old Testament passages that are pulled on when Peter describes that this is what they're seeing happen in Acts chapter two.
What I find interesting is he doesn't quote from Jeremiah or Ezekiel, which is what most people want to point to when it comes to the new covenant.
He actually points to Isaiah 59 and how God will put this speech in his children's mouth and his children's children's mouth until all generations, like all future generations, which really goes against the cessationist argument as well, because it shows that God's speech is to be the new norm for the new covenant people of God.
So anyway, I think if you connect baptism of the spirit with the giving of the spirit as it was prophesied as a new covenant reality, what's also fun is that this new covenant reality we knew would extend to the Gentiles, especially when you look at certain Septuagint Old Testament Greek passages that talk about it.
So there's a lot there.
Yeah, I think that what we're talking about is so in theology, we call this the analogy of faith, that we use the clear passages of scripture to interpret the unclear.
And I'll freely admit that when it comes to the book of Acts, it's pretty difficult to determine why some people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit subsequent to conversion, such as the Jews and Samaritans in Acts two and eight.
Whereas others receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit simultaneous to conversion, such as the Gentiles in Acts chapter 10, a story that's retold in Acts chapter 11.
And I do think we can look at the narrative text and come to some conclusions from it.
But we have the clear text of First Corinthians 12, 13, that says we were all baptized in the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.
So Paul doesn't create two levels of Christians like there's the spirit baptized, super empowered ones and the kind of not so empowered Christians who haven't been spirit baptized.
No, he just readily affirms we've all been baptized in the spirit.
And the power comes from our uniting to the body of Christ, whereby we receive gifts of the Holy Spirit.
And so to Miller's point, that does align everything together.
And Josh made this point, too, that the power, it does flow out of that.
But what it particularly flows out of is that when we're baptized in the Holy Spirit, we are incorporated into the body of Christ so that his power by the spirit flows through us.
So I think we have to view the more difficult to explain texts through the clearer texts such as First Corinthians 12, 12.
But then even if we just look at the specific texts of Cornelius, everybody has to ask this question.
Which one is normative?
The Jew and Samaritan baptism of the Holy Spirit subsequent to conversion or the Gentile baptism of the Holy Spirit simultaneous to conversion?
And I would argue that the that the Gentile experience is meant to be normative for the church for a few reasons.
Number one, for Acts chapter two and chapter eight, we have to understand the Samaritans were basically they were the northern tribes of Israel.
This is fulfilling an ancient promises promise made through Ezekiel that there would be a reuniting of the tribes.
They were reunited under the lordship of King Jesus and and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
And so there was this huge separation, but it wasn't until they came under the the Samaritans.
it wasn't until they came under Jerusalem leadership,
which aligns with what Ezekiel had said.
Like, hey, there's going to be a reuniting
of the Southern and Northern tribes.
And so you have some Judeans coming up, John and Peter,
and the reuniting occurs under them.
Otherwise you would have had like the equivalent
of a Sunni Shiite kind of Muslim split right at the outset.
And I think that's even hinted at in Acts chapter eight,
whenever it says this,
it says, for the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen on them,
but they had only been baptized
in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Then Peter and John laid their hands on them
and they received the Holy Spirit.
Notice how that first verse I read,
it gives an explanatory comment.
Dr. Allison of Southern Seminary says this,
he says, the Samaritan experience
of the delay of the Holy Spirit
is an unusual rather than typical experience
as only an unusual experience
calls for an explanatory comment.
So it's kind of like, well,
we expect it to happen at conversion,
but this seems to be a special scenario.
And so Luke actually takes a verse
to explain that this was special.
Jews and Samaritans lived in a historical time warp
because at one time,
both had lived under the old covenant.
And so there was this transitional period
when the Holy Spirit was poured out.
As it says in John 7, 39 to 40,
the Holy Spirit had not yet been given
because Jesus had not yet been glorified.
It's by the work of Jesus,
the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the church
in a way that God's people are baptized in the Spirit.
But when you go to Acts chapters 10 and 11,
so the story's told in Acts 10,
it's told again in Acts chapter 11,
and then it's told again in Acts chapter 15,
three times and in narrative literature,
this is the way you discern
what is the author trying to say?
You say, what are they repeating
over and over and over again?
And what they're repeating is the Gentile conversion
where the baptism of the Holy Spirit
is simultaneous to conversion.
And so I think Gentiles who lived outside
of this historical time warp
because they had never been under covenant with Yahweh
are suddenly coming in,
well, they received the Spirit
at the same time as conversion.
Whereas Jews and Samaritans
who lived inside of this historical time warp,
there were some special attending circumstances.
That's how I would explain it.
So Michael, help me with your interpretation there.
I think I'm on board with everything,
but I think I heard you say
that both the Jews and the Samaritans
received the baptism of the Spirit
subsequent to conversion.
I'm defining New Testament conversion, Acts 2,
not subsequently, but simultaneously
because Acts 2 is the inauguration of the new covenant.
So like that event,
that is their baptism of the Spirit.
It was simultaneous.
And then you're saying that the Samaritans-
But you would argue,
okay, well, in Acts 2, there are multiple people.
Some, like 2,000 are getting saved in a single day.
So they are converted.
I see.
But like you would say, Peter and John,
they already knew the Lord before Pentecost.
So I think we're on the same page.
Yeah, I would say that they were saved
under the old regeneration.
Yes.
Regeneration is a uniquely New Testament,
new covenant experience.
And so regeneration couldn't have happened.
Some would argue.
Yeah, I would say the regeneration comes with the Spirit.
That's one of the perks.
It's the new covenant reality.
If you're gonna pull from Jeremiah and Ezekiel,
if you're gonna talk about the power,
then you're gonna pull from Isaiah 59.
And all of those things are new covenant experiences.
So conversion, well, there's no need
for Peter, Paul, the apostles.
Well, Paul, actually, sorry.
Paul would have to have converted.
But I mean, the believing Jews to convert.
Yeah.
They already did believe.
It's just they hadn't experienced regeneration yet.
Yeah, like I would say that Peter,
and I would maybe be careful with the word regeneration
because I think we're close there.
But like Abraham believed God
and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Because I believe in depravity,
I believe that God had to do something
upon his will, right?
To affect his willingness to have faith, right?
Repentance is, whether you're Arminian
or Calvinist on this issue,
God is the one who first reaches out.
He does something to your will
that allows you, unless you're gonna be Pelagian, right?
There's some kind of work of God.
Now, some wanna call that regeneration.
There does seem to be something about new covenant rebirth
that that language of regeneration seems to match.
There's definitely something going on.
And that's what I hear you saying.
There's something going on in the Old Testament
where people's wills are liberated.
But I understand Peter and John
to be saved under the old covenant in Acts 1.
Come Acts 2, there is a new covenant salvation that's given,
which is why I'm saying those two things are simultaneous.
And even with the converts who,
the 3,000 that came to salvation that day,
even as I read that,
I would say their baptism of the spirit
probably happened simultaneous to their conversion.
So maybe Roundtree, you would have some insight on that
that would help me see that more clearly.
But that's how I understand it.
Which one are you talking about?
You're talking about Acts 8 with the Samaritans?
No, I'm talking about Acts 2.
It's the 3,000.
when the 3,000 came to salvation. So I'm still stating those Jews.
I would say that's simultaneous to conversion.
Okay, so both Peter, John, and the surrounding 3,000,
their moment of New Covenant rebirth, they were baptized in the Spirit.
We're all on the same page there?
Okay, well, I'm probably different from y'all. I think New Birth existed in the Old Covenant,
circumcision of the heart. But I think that the components of, like, the Ezekiel prophecies,
the emphasis of the Holy Spirit's role comes into that. But that's a big, long theological debate.
And I see both sides.
Wait, wait. So a couple questions.
This is another fun conversation.
Do you believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at conversion?
Yes.
In Acts 1, did the apostles have the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
No.
So we agree. Where do we disagree?
No, no.
What I'm saying is—
He's defining it differently from New Covenant.
Right. What I'm saying is, Josh, I think you're using conversion only in its association
with the inauguration of the New Covenant and—
I'm trying to call it—
But what I'm saying is Peter and John were already converted.
So I'm divorcing the language of conversion from, like, I think they were converted maybe
sometime during Jesus' actual ministry. They might have actually started as unbelievers.
I mean, Peter, he declares him. After he sees him walk on water,
isn't that right? He gets down on his knees and says, you know, truly you are.
Yeah. Well, there's a development, like in Matthew's gospel, when Jesus calms the storm.
They're like, who is this who calms the wind and the waves?
And then that's Matthew 8. And then in Matthew 14,
when Jesus calms the wind and waves again, and he walks on water,
they worship him as the Son of God. So there's this development from
they don't know who he is to they worship him as the Son of God.
But either way, at some point, they were converted before Pentecost in my understanding.
And so, Josh, whenever I say conversion and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are simultaneous,
I'm saying for us who live outside of the historical time warp of Acts chapter 2.
But for those who lived inside of the historical time warp where the Holy Spirit wasn't given,
I'm not going to say nobody was converted at all ever before Pentecost.
They were converted, but the Holy Spirit was given in a new and fresh way.
But what I'm trying to guard against is making this the paradigm for all believers everywhere,
rather than acknowledging they lived in a historical time warp.
So yes, the Holy Spirit came subsequent to their coming to faith in Yahweh.
In Acts chapter 2, I'm talking about the 120 in the upper room. They knew the Lord already.
It was subsequent for them, but that's because the giving of the Spirit was subsequent
in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So I think that ongoingly Acts 10 and 11 provides the paradigm
for baptism of the Holy Spirit and conversion being simultaneous.
That's good. I'm trying to talk in terms of—the reason I've tried to preface my conversation of
conversion with New Covenant conversion is because I think it safeguards against that—
You're putting a qualifier on there.
Yeah. Clearly, Peter and John were converts. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah.
They believed that he was the Son of God. They were—he rose from the dead, ascended into heaven.
It's not like Acts 2 was the day that they were like,
you know what? I think this Jesus guy is the real deal.
You know, like they for sure believed he was the guy.
So basically, we traded one debate for another, like what is the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
How do we define conversion?
That's how every conversation with us goes, though.
Yeah, it's super important that we like, okay, we've got that term,
New Covenant conversion, baptism of the Spirit, simultaneous. And if I use that as the category,
then you go, cool, Acts 2, Cornelius and the Gentiles, there's a consistency with 1 Corinthians
12. That's more of a catch-all. Yes, they were converted in the Old Covenant, but in the New,
something has shifted. And this is why we need to move into our third point on the importance of
the promise of the Spirit. What's the significance of the Day of Pentecost?
Miller, do you want to take it away with that one?
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of places you could start.
So the Day of Pentecost was inaugurated in the Old Covenant. So you've got God destroys the
Israelis in Egypt through the plagues and signs. God delivers Israel out of Egypt. On the Day of
Pentecost, Moses officiates a wedding ceremony between God and Israel. The Mosaic Covenant is
inaugurated on the Day of Pentecost. So on that day, Israel worships the calf. They get crazy.
They start committing idolatry at the foot of Mount Sinai. Moses comes back. And this is the
old history of the world reference for
called Brooks film where he drops the stone tablets,
but that's not what actually happens.
So anyway, Aaron and the Levites take swords,
they slaughter the 3,000 in the Israeli camp.
So now the new covenant is paralleling this perfectly,
right?
They're all gathered together.
You know, Jesus performed signs and wonders
before the people, just like Moses did.
He defeats our enemies on a grander scale through the cross
and though he heals and delivers,
the new covenant is not instantly inaugurated.
Jesus waits for the day of Pentecost
to enact that new and better covenant.
And on that day, there are 3,000 that come to salvation,
just like there are 3,000 slaughtered in the camp of Israel
during Moses' time.
So disciples in Acts 1, they were saved,
but they were saved in an old covenant sense.
It's not as if the new covenant believers
were waiting for the baptism of the spirit.
Once the new covenant comes,
that is the baptism of the spirit.
It's fully inaugurated the moment Jesus steps into heaven
and he sends the spirit, so.
That's that.
Do you wanna tackle any of those Old Testament passages
from Ezekiel and the promise of the coming of the spirit?
Sure, so just noting the connection
between the new covenant and the giving of the spirit.
So this is Ezekiel 37, 12 to 14.
Therefore prophesy and say to them,
thus says the Lord God, behold,
I will open your graves and raise you up,
raise you from your graves, O my people,
and I will bring you into the land of Israel
and you shall know that I am the Lord
when I open your graves and raise you up from your graves,
O my people, and I will put my spirit within you
and you shall live and I will place you in your own land.
Then you shall know that I am the Lord.
I have spoken, I will do it, declares the Lord.
So there's a lot that we could get distracted here,
such as the coming into the land and all of that,
especially in modern discourse right now.
But we're really just trying to laser beam focus
on the connection between the giving of the Holy Spirit
in such a way that he lives inside of us
and what we see in the New Testament.
Next is, as we keep reading a little bit further,
verse 24, it says,
"'My servant David shall be king over them
and they shall have one shepherd
and they shall walk in my rules
and be careful to obey my statutes.
And they shall dwell in the land that I gave
to my servant Jacob when your fathers lived.
They and their children, their children's children
shall dwell there forever.
And my servant David shall be the prince forever.
And I will make a covenant of peace with them.
It shall be an everlasting covenant.
I will set their land and multiply them.
It will set my sanctuary in their midst forever.
My dwelling place shall be with them
and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
Then the nations will know that I am the Lord
who sanctifies Israel when my sanctuary
is in their midst forever."
So once again, you have this covenant language.
So it actually mentions covenant, covenant of peace,
and they shall be my God and I will be their people.
That's a classic covenant type language,
but it's talking about David the shepherd and the king,
which of course David was long gone
by the time Ezekiel was prophesying.
So it was talking about King Jesus.
And this does relate to the reuniting
of the Northern and Southern tribes,
which happens by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit
in Acts chapters two and eight on the Jews
and the Samaritans, Southern and Northern tribes reunited.
So all of this to say, there seems to be this agreement
with the giving of the covenant
and the establishment of the Holy Spirit
dwelling inside of his people
as the Messiah is elevated above them.
So just noting those connections is there,
and it's called an everlasting covenant as well.
So this is the new covenant.
And of course you have second Corinthians chapter three,
where it's like, hey, the old covenant
was like written on tablets of stone,
but the new covenant is on tablets of human hearts
written by the spirit.
And so you see this new covenant
and connection of the Holy Spirit all throughout,
honestly, the old and the new Testament.
And do you guys wanna make any comments on those verses?
Just to give clarity for why we're bringing them up,
for people who are watching,
okay, so you guys are debating
on what the baptism of the spirit is.
We've kind of walked through,
it looks like it happens at conversion,
but then why does Jesus say,
wait in the upper room in Acts one
for the baptism of the spirit?
Well, that's where we're making the big argument.
This is some kind of new Testament conversion.
This is a new covenant.
They were saved certainly under the old covenant,
but as you see here,
the day of Pentecost was the day
where that marriage ceremony was inaugurated
between God and Israel.
And then God comes and dies on the cross,
annulling that covenant, Romans seven,
and then raises from the dead
to instill a new and better covenant.
So here comes Jesus saying,
look, in the same way that Moses officiated that ceremony,
here, this is a new marriage ceremony.
The covenant is being inaugurated.
So certainly just like Moses delivered Israel
from their enemies,
performed miracles and signs and wonders,
in that same way,
Jesus does all of those great things.
He defeats the enemy,
just like God defeats the enemy
and Moses swallowed him up in the sea.
Jesus dies on the cross and defeats Satan.
death, hell, and the grave, right? As the preacher said. So yes, he's done all of those things. He's
done great signs, wonders, and miracles. And yet, the inauguration of the old covenant didn't happen
until after the deliverance. In the same way, after the crucifixion, the new covenant isn't
fully inaugurated until Acts 2. There's a parallel there that's really important. And as we've read
in Ezekiel, the promise of this new covenant is the outpouring of the Spirit. So when we see that
baptism language being used by Jesus, by John the Baptist, they're talking about the new covenant
coming to the people of God. So that's the kind of concrete argument there. So someone might be
listening and saying, you guys are just fighting over semantics, right? You're calling this some
kind of subsequent experience, a filling, an encounter with the Holy Spirit, but you're not
calling it the baptism of the Spirit. Well, what's the difference? Can't we just agree to disagree on
the terms that we use? And this is kind of getting to the finer points of is this semantics or not?
What do you guys want to tackle, whether this is semantical?
That's probably not the right use of that word. Go for it, Miller.
Oh, I mean, there's a lot to be lost by making the baptism of the Spirit a subsequent experience
to salvation. You end up creating two classes of Christians, which is exactly the thing Paul
is trying to avoid in 1 Corinthians 12 when he mentions this baptism of the Spirit. He's trying
to say, look, no one gift is better than others. You're not more spiritual because you speak in
tongues. It doesn't matter if you're a Jew or a Greek because this Spirit baptism is what's
united all mankind across all races, all nations, all socioeconomic classes. This is also kind of
the point in Acts 2 when Peter quotes from Joel 2. He says, look, this is going to be poured out
on your sons and your daughters, your old men, your young men, your slaves, and your free.
The giving of the Spirit is the single greatest unifying factor of all mankind. Those who believe
upon Christ, they get this Spirit, which puts them in the body of Christ, thereby removing
all classes and all distinctions. So it's an oddity to have a second blessing theology that
would then disunite those who believe when, in fact, it's all of us who believe who get this
Spirit. So to separate them and create classes with a doctrine, it matters. It's not just
semantics. It actually affects how people live. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I would argue to the
question of, is it just semantics? I actually have a yes and no answer to that. My no answer
is exactly what Miller said. No, we actually need to really parse this out because I've seen the
danger of two classes of Christians created where you have the super powerful, tongue-speaking,
awesome Christians and the not so powerful, not tongue-speaking, less sanctified and powerful
Christians. And I find that— We call them muggles.
That creates. So I'm like, man, let's rightly divide the word of truth. Let's really dig into
this and try to explain the challenges with the narrative text and pull in some of the epistles
and some of the Old Testament prophecies, et cetera. Let's hash this out because it's
not just semantics. It's really important. But I said I'd give you a yes and no.
On the other hand, in a way, it can be just semantics. And here's why I say that. I have
people in my church and always have that believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second
blessing experience, that they received it, that it was this powerful, wonderful encounter,
et cetera. And I don't get into arguing matches with them. I'm like, that's fine if you believe
that. I think there's a way of holding on to this doctrine loosely and in a way that doesn't
divide. For instance, I've also known classical Pentecostals who communicated in a way that is
less inclined to create two classes of Christians. I think there are ways to be careful about it.
And so for me as a pastor, I want to make space for people to have different interpretations
on this issue. And hey, we're all just coming together and worshiping the same Jesus by the
same Spirit. And so in that sense, I can say, you know what, it's not like I'm going to go to battle
over this. And so in that sense, I can say, okay, sure, call it semantics. But on the other hand,
in the same breath, I'm going to say, ah, but it's not just semantics because I really am concerned
about the two classes of Christians. So again, I'm going to bring both of those together and say,
hey, we can all worship as one big happy family despite different doctrines on this. And I can
affirm your experience despite my different vocabulary. I might call it the filling of the
Holy Spirit, not the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But at the same time, I'm going to say, let's be
real careful. Yeah, I would say on my end, really, if you were to take initial physical evidence
out of this conversation entirely, I would say, yeah, it's semantics. It's no big deal.
But it's because baptism of the Spirit as a subsequent experience is taught in such a way
that is evidenced by tongue speech. I go, that
That's where we actually have a problem
because I've been in churches where pastors have said,
I won't let you do door greeting at my church
if you don't speak in tongues
because he would say that the disciples in Acts
were full of the spirit.
And he understands that to be a synonym
for baptism in the spirit.
So he goes, oh, they needed the baptism of the Holy Spirit
to even serve tables.
So I would even let you serve in my church
if you didn't speak in tongues.
I've heard another pastor in my city say,
I won't disciple you if you don't speak in tongues
because Jesus, he couldn't continue his discipleship
process with his 12 disciples, right?
Until they had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I can't do a better job than the Holy Spirit.
Why would I ever disciple someone
who doesn't speak in tongues?
The assemblies of God
and other mainline Pentecostal denominations
won't let you go on the mission field,
won't let you pastor a church if you don't speak in tongues.
And I wanna be clear, I speak in tongues.
I believe in the gift of tongues.
But I think what we end up doing
is robbing the body of Christ of great leaders,
great men and women of God,
because we expect them to be able to do a thing
that Paul goes out of his way to say,
not everyone's gonna be able to do this thing.
So we talk about Navy SEALs, that's it.
I mean, if you pull that out and you say,
hey, you need to seek subsequent experiences with the Lord
for powerful ministry.
I go, sure, that sounds great.
I've encountered the Lord at various times and in many ways.
And I would tell people that that makes me a better me,
not that it makes me better than you.
Like I have encountered the Lord in such a way
that it changed the way that I preach
or changed the way that I prayed
or had an encounter with the Lord and I saw more healings.
I mean, I've had experiences like that,
but that doesn't make me better than someone else.
It does make me better me.
And I would hope that would be the case with others
who seek the power and the presence of God in their life.
Certainly we should all seek and aim
to have more of the Spirit
so ministry would be more effective and more powerful
and more glorifying to God
and more edifying to the church.
So I would say to that, yes and amen.
Miller, you've unmuted.
I feel like you have something to say.
Yeah, well, this is where my heart gets tugged on
because when it comes to people feeling hurt,
that's where I'm like, oh, okay.
I wanna wade into those waters
because I don't want people feeling that way.
But not just for the sake of not feeling that way
because I actually believe it's honest and true.
The fact is there are people
that will not just be disqualified,
but would self disqualify because they don't speak in tongues.
I've heard people say, well,
should I really be in ministry in any capacity
if I don't speak in tongues?
And that's where you've made one gift,
the preeminent gift above others, which makes no sense.
Anybody can pray.
And that's really all tongues is.
But tongues is not for the super spiritual.
It's for those like me who don't always know how to pray
and I need a lecture help.
That's it.
It's not the preeminent gift.
It's just a gift amongst many.
But then also for the person out there who feels like,
earlier I said the words,
there is no such thing as a giftless Christian.
Well, that person may go, well, what gift do I have?
I don't speak in tongues.
And I'd go, you probably have more than one gift.
You just may not recognize what it is.
There's some gifts we operate in quite naturally,
like Jeff Durbin,
when it comes to the prophetic words that he's gotten.
He'd never called them prophetic
because he struggles to believe
that the gifts have continued today.
But he acts as though he's getting prophetic revelation
when it comes to the way he lives his life.
Even those who are in cessationist circles,
they still act as though
God is still speaking to them extra biblically.
They just call it something different.
But I would say that knowing what your gift is
is really a matter of discovery.
If you wanna know if you have a gift of healing,
well, go pray for the sick, see what happens.
If you wanna know
if you have a gift of interpretation of tongues,
well, get around somewhere where people speak in tongues,
see what happens.
If you wanna know if you have a gift of prophecy,
well, pray for people and just say,
Lord, do you have anything to share with me about them?
The important thing to note here,
the really thing I'm trying to emphasize
is all of us who have believed upon Christ,
trusted in him for the both forgiveness of sins
and to give us a new life and we call him Lord,
he has blessed us with the spirit.
And with the giving of that spirit
means there's ways for us to love the world around us
with the power of God and ways that only God can do.
And so that is the joy in front of all of us
who are Christians.
It's a great joy and pleasure
serving God with the gifts that he's given us.
Yeah.
Yeah, praise God.
I like it.
Do you have any closing thoughts?
Hey, what do you guys think of this?
This is my definition of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You can refine it or give it the thumbs up.
So the baptism of the Holy Spirit
is the promise of the father by the work of the son
to immerse new believers in the Holy Spirit
for the purpose of incorporating them into Christ's body
and receiving his power.
Man, I think your chat GBT prescription
or what do you call that?
Subscription is finally paying off.
Good job.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Okay, I think it's pretty good.
Grok, sorry, whatever it is.
Anyway, I think it's good, I think it's good.
Guys, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Remnant Radio.
I hope you enjoy the conversation and video clips like this.
Hey, if you're out there and you have not already, can I just encourage you to,
man, register for our new conference this fall?
Here's a quick clip from it.
I'll pull it over.
We got to be a people empowered.
Empowered with healings and miracles and signs and wonders and prophecies and revelations
because the Spirit is poured out on all flesh, not just special people.
We got a conference coming up this fall in Houston, Texas.
I encourage you to come out and check it out.
Go over to TheRemnantRadio.com to see about location, time.
All that fun stuff can be found over there on the website.
The conference is on healing and deliverance.
So we'll be talking about what the Bible says about the gift of healing,
what the Bible says about deliverance and Lord willing,
we've got a bunch of prayer workers that are going to be down there with us,
people we've trained in the WSSM School of Ministry.
We're going to be out there praying for folks,
asking God to perform signs, wonders, and miracles and stretch forth his hand
and perform these things through his holy servant, Jesus.
So you guys, man, if you're interested in checking that stuff out,
learning more about the spiritual gifts and or seeing, experiencing those things demonstrated,
Lord willing, that would be a great place for you.
So go check it out this October in Houston, Texas.
Guys, thank you so much for tuning in.
Subscribe, like the video, and we'll see you next time.