Well, I have a fun little topic for tonight, but I want y'all to catch up with me and tell
me where you're at in your life.
David, I want to know, are you still talking to that girl?
No, it didn't pan out.
I had a feeling since you were a little like outgoing on the last single spotlight.
Yeah, I didn't.
You know what?
She's a lovely human being, but yeah, it just didn't work out, but yeah, I'm talking to
new people though.
All right.
Well, I don't know if you guys noticed it last time, so I tried to get the skinny on
the single spotlight and people matching, and I just got the impression there's not
a easy, clear system in place right now.
So the plan at some point is that when we do a more formal single spotlight, there would
be a way for you to find the matches like, and then you guys have access to the profiles
on the spirit mate match software.
And then you decide.
Cause I was like, I said, just from me talking to the guys, they would rather get all the
look them up and decide for themselves rather than you waste time deciding if you think
they're right fit or not.
Like I think they would rather just go through them.
So I don't know how soon that's going to happen, but in the meantime, since we're not doing
like very long single spotlights, I'm kind of doing this free form.
I don't know if you guys have noticed, but I've given you guys permission to just reach
out to each other.
We're just pretty much what I've said, like, if you're willing to share, put your, however
you want it, people to find you there on Facebook, put your handle on your thing and don't be
upset if people reach out to you, like you're not sharing for nothing.
You're sharing for people to reach out to you.
So I feel like for now, if that's, since that's how we're doing it, how has it felt to do
that kind of like group share where I'm like asking fun questions, getting you guys to
share?
Like, I feel like it's been really interactive and helpful to find out new and interesting
things about people that you wouldn't normally find out about.
Yeah, it was, it was a blast.
Like I had a, I had a great time and it's, and it's fun to watch too.
Well, and that's, this is like the second time I did it.
And I feel like when she doesn't have specific people, she wants me to spotlight.
I feel like it's a good way to get, and honestly, if you guys have noticed, if there's men there,
I'm going to call you on you almost every time.
And then I tried to change up who the women are.
So it's always new ladies getting spotlighted and I'm very picky.
Like I'm not going to spotlight you if I can't see you and you don't look like you put yourself
together.
I can't just kind of the thing.
All right, David, David was the first one on.
So David from PA, are you there in the background?
Yeah, I'm driving.
So and it's dark here and it's, you know, 35 degrees.
Oh golly jeeper.
I mean, I'm in Nashville, Tennessee and we had flurries this morning.
I'm not kidding.
Flurries.
And it's supposed to have flurries.
Well, David, you're way up north, David, right?
Is it like snowing up in good old Canada?
Snow storms, hail storms.
Like my car had two inches of ice on it and I was trying to like use my broom for my house
and my neighbor was like, use an ice scraper.
So she like came out of her house, gave me her ice scraper.
But yeah, it took me about 45 minutes to get my car unstuck from all the ice.
Oh no, that's just an oh no.
Oh no, no, no.
Well, and then Bob, thank you for joining us tonight.
Bob, remind me where you, where do you live?
I'm in New Jersey.
This is my only third time on.
So I don't know.
Where in Jersey are you?
How well do you know Jersey?
I grew up in Connecticut and I went to Lehigh for college.
So I know Jersey pretty well.
Okay.
So I'm in, I was outside Morristown.
Oh yeah.
In Randolph, which borders Morristown.
Yep.
It's lovely there.
It's lovely.
Nothing like the Jersey Turnpike, I'm going to say.
Um, although you have some you have the Jersey shore is also quite lovely. All right. Um,
so tell so so
David right you are chatting with people. Are you chatting with people in the community?
online all of the above
Yeah, so, uh recently single and um
Yeah, I just I just decided I said, you know what like i'm just gonna go back out there and still meet people and
No time for morning. Just like yeah get back on the horse. And you know what life's too short. So I went back on the apps
Um, but I most of the people i've been chatting with are within the community
Um, so one of the girls who was spotlighted I just added her on facebook and she was like, oh, thank goodness
I was hoping you'd add me on facebook. So we've been chatting
Uh, I can't remember her name or is it?
I think you're
I'll put it in the chat in a second. But then and then I also had another zoom date this week with another woman in
the community
um
She's out of my age range, but I think
um
Yeah, she's nice to talk to you. You're mid 30s, right?
Early 30s. I'm 33
Yeah
and uh
And yeah, and even some connections that I I thought would never come back
so there was one person phoebe who like
For a long time for like two months we were like
She's like quiet disorganized. So she was like, oh, I like you. No, I don't like you. I like you
No, I don't like you and so I just was like no more playing games
And so I didn't talk to her months and I saw her on a dating profile and and I liked it
And then she wrote me a text saying hey, why did you why did you like my dating profile?
um, so I just I wrote to her and I said, you know what like
Like your interest for the lord and there's a lot of like shared mutual interest there
And you know i'm looking forward to reconnect and she said yeah, it's great that you're connecting and last year single and uh,
You know fourth quarter here we come
I'll i'll connect with you in the chats is what she said and when I when I come on the thing
So I was like, well, all right then
Okay, I like it. Okay. Uh
So bob tell me where are you at in your dating?
life right now
um
Where am I at? I'm exploring right now. I'm not dating anybody. Um
Meet up with with all night. So I haven't been on like I said, it's my third meeting on here
So I have not been I guess i'm going to go
I guess i'm still going through the whole heart checking. So you're still going through the heart book the heart work book then
Yeah, are you guys let me ask you a dumb question. Somebody asked actually I was doing a private session with a client
Do the guys read the same original book
As the ladies or do you guys have a different book that you're using?
I think it's an edited version
I think it's the same book
I don't I don't know about a book. I just went through the heart work videos and then the past sessions videos
Yeah, the videos I think those are the same videos that we're seeing the ladies are seeing too
There's just a woman and she's having her she wants her her level three boyfriend to do the heart work
And she just wanted to make sure there wasn't a male version of the heart work book, and I didn't think there was
Yeah, I so I was comparing it with evelyn. And so like some stuff is is a little different
Um, so like some of the stuff that I read she didn't read
Do you have an e-book that you're using? Yeah, it's like an e-version like a downloadable e-book
That's the one I have do you mind can you email it to me by any chance sure i'm gonna put my um
I think it's the same only because once I thought there were some gender changes that would be needed to make it male
Yeah, I have the well I don't I have the way back when I did it
We were given the e-book version and that's the one I have saved
and I got the imprint and
My my husband
I think he bought the kindle version of it and listened to it and i'm pretty he thought it was fine though
Like he didn't think oh my gosh, I can't read this because it sounds like it's only to girls
But um, this is my downloaded off of the uh last year single site
Yeah, that's I think that's the same book
Now I got I got mine through the app, I mean it seemed like probably the same thing in the app
Okay. All right. You know what? So it's in the app. All right, i'm gonna have to go look then
All right. I'm gonna have to go look. Okay
Fabulous. Okay. So I know what's going on with david, right?
Bob, you're pretty new. So have you bob have you started going to any of the
Phase three co-ed stuff yet or no then yet?
The only thing
I've done is this three times I was on one of the faith Fridays sessions Thursday night ones. And I was on last Saturday's morning one
Okay. Okay, so you haven't started doing the phase three where you get to see all the ladies like
No, okay. Well, that's going to be super fun for you. Um, so the options for you guys
Sunday night prayer is obviously co-ed fridays co-ed saturdays co-ed
And then once a week on either a tuesday or thursday night
um
Actually, I think this thursday is love seats ask jackie where you guys can ask jackie any dating questions you want and it's co-ed
And then next week I think it's a heartwork teaching sometimes it's a something fun
Kind of thing and then once a month I host single spotlight where I try to spotlight as many of the men and the ladies
as possible
and
David wright can tell you it's a lot of fun
um
Lately, she hasn't had like because she is like kind of spotlighted all of you at this point
you know, I think we're kind of just doing this like
Scramble, so basically the first 30 minutes. I ask really fun questions like go
Go pick your favorite spice in the cupboard come back and tell us about it
And so it has fostered some really interesting like my favorite question was grab the oldest thing in your closet
I was surprised how many people still had their prom dresses. I was like, okay
And so and then I ask more serious questions. So it's been a really cool way for folks to meet each other
So you're kind of early. So bob tell me are you divorced never married? Do you have kids?
Uh divorced, I was married 20 years. Uh, I've been divorced now about
12 13 years three kids
Okay
A lot of the house and one grandchild
Awesome. Do you mind tell me how old you are?
um 70
Ooh
What's your ideal woman
Right
Um, I just know some we know I know some of the women in the community that live up your way
Uh, well, I do know couple I mean the ones who introduced me this was angie lee who i'm friends with okay and
carol who I know now and um
Carol
Carol, yeah, she's on staten island
Okay
And then i've met uh, julie
And a candy
only through some of the things that angie's been
Organizing. Yeah. Well, that's good because andy's getting a lot of fun activities. So that's awesome. All right
Okay, I won't keep bugging you. Okay david from pa
um
Remind me we're in pennsylvania. Are you remind me?
I'm north of philly, but south of allentown bethlehem. I'm closer to allentown bethlehem
Oh, yeah, because we had this conversation right because I went to lehi
hi
Yeah, that's right. Okay
Yeah, you're supposed to you're supposed to see me like a philly cheesesteak or something. I'm just saying i'm kidding
Okay, so david from pennsylvania are you in the datings like where are you in your dating story right now
Um, I think i'm all over the place to be honest with you, yeah
Okay
I know I've spotlighted you i've called on you. I wasn't have you been talking to any of the ladies in the community?
No, there's four people i'd really like to know about but it's like I can't find two of them online
Another one has been in the community a long time and maybe she was on camera maybe for a few seconds
maybe
David tell me who they are. I'm gonna do some homework for you. Who are they?
You you got you got a you got to blip that out. You can't just record that
Hold on. Okay. Hold on. Hold on
Okay, so i'm just here to I do have a video clip I want to show you guys and get your thoughts on
But I wanted to see where you were in the dating process. Okay, andrew. I know well i'm looking at your ceiling now fabulous
Andrew tell me a little bit about you because I I recognize you but i'm blanking on how old you are and where do you live?
Yeah
Yeah, so i'm um
I'm, uh, 34 years old. I'm in detroit area. Um, yep, and um
I'm still dating the same. Uh filipina right now. Oh my gosh. How's that? That's right
How is that going? When when is the last time you guys got to see each other?
Well, the last time I got to see her was in july
um
And i'm waiting for um, december 28th to visit her a second time
Okay
You're very patient man. I love it
Yeah, I kind of have to be patient especially because of the situation where the typhoon tell me about the typhoon
Are you worried? Oh, oh the typhoon passed her and she's safe. So I'm
It it actually was just north of her like she was in an area where it's like close to it
But not like actually perfect in line with it. So yeah
Mm-hmm
Perfect. Okay, Mike, where are you at in the dating situation? Tell me
so
Yeah, well
Everybody I find is complicated
You know like seriously I can't I'm like Lord, could you bring somebody that's not like it, okay
Wait, remind me how old you are because I have somebody that's amazing for you
I just turned 50, but I haven't I'm not allowed to date long distance
Because who is Southern California considered long-distance Lord, is it?
California considered long-distance. I don't know Lord. Is that I
Guess I could get the audio. It is really
I'm gonna come back on real quick. Yeah, okay. I
Forget the Lord has told him that all right. I want to try to share something. Hold on. I
Gotta see if I remember how to do this. I
Want to get your opinion? Oh my gosh share
I mean you guys haven't shared a file on zoom in so long like my brain cells are gone
Okay
I'm gonna go to
Did it uh here let me go to my desktop and
Then I gotta find this
Video
Gonna move you guys to do them. No, I gotta move you away. Oh, I don't know. I can't get to that thing. Okay
We're coaching, all right
Right. Everyone says marriage should be 5050. Can you guys see this screen?
Yeah, all right. I want to talk to you guys about relationships because I think this is like a really common topic
Where it talks about like how?
You know marriage is about giving 5050 like if I give 50 and you give 50
So this is Brené Brown who like next to Jackie, of course might be my hero
And I just I would love to like just kind of banter around what you guys think
About what she says about marriage
It's the biggest crock of bullshit I've ever heard it's never 5050
Yeah ever and so what we do is we quantify where we are
So if Steve comes home and he'll be like I got 20 just in terms of energy just energy
Investment kindness patience, I'm at a 20 and I'll be like I'll cover you. I got your brother like I'll pull the 80
sometimes we come home, which we have done a lot my mom has been sick and
I'll say I've got 10 and Steve would like two days ago said I'm riding a solid 25
so we know that we have to sit down at the table anytime we have less than a hundred combined and
Figure out a plan of kindness toward each other. I love that
Yeah, because the thing is marriage is not something that's 50-50 a
partnership works when you can carry their 20 or they can carry your 20 and
That when you both just have 20 you have a plan where you don't hurt each other. Everyone says marriage should be 50-50
It's the biggest crock of bullshit. I've ever heard. It's never 5050
and so what
so, I mean I
It's really a hundred hundred but
Because you're but yeah, but I think I think she's trying to make the point that as humans
We physically can't show up with a hundred percent of ourselves every single no
And I think that's very and and so what I call guys to is to actually pull
pull up pull pull at least an 80 and and and Renee
Do we want to get spicy or do we not get want to get spicy because like there's spicy as far as
I
Really like what she's saying, but I have seen it rare that that happens because generally when I have seen a man
Not be okay
Then that Fritz is the woman because her need for security and safety is usually dependent on him being
Strong and and I know that it's well
It's funny because I the reason why I wanted to show that video especially because of what you had just said earlier
I'm meeting women
Who've got a lot of stuff and I would argue women or say the same thing
They're meeting men who have a lot of stuff like and I think the problem is we're all getting to an age
Where we're coming into the story with a lot of stuff
Yeah, that's fair.
So in theory, I love the idea of the man, and I love what you're trying to say, like
you're trying to encourage men to be the leader.
And I don't know though, is it sometimes being a good leader saying, like when I ran my nonprofit,
sometimes being a good leader is saying, you know what you guys, I need help today.
I don't have it all today.
Now, and that can be true.
Okay, so I was married for 20 years, right?
And healthy women, yes, like, you know, like, I mean, and hopefully, but like, so here's
like, okay, I guess we're getting into this.
Yeah, let's do it.
I wanted to have a good conversation.
So here we are.
Okay, so at a woman's core need is security and safety.
I mean, like that.
So there's the whole gold digger thing, but that really is just them getting their needs
met through, you know, like, my, like, they are after some protection anyways.
So, so a lot of times now, and this is what I encourage men to, and I've learned how,
as a dude, when you're not okay, I have, it's rare for me to see a woman who can actually
handle that.
And that and Renee, and you, I probably like, you know, my guess is that you're probably
actually pretty okay with that because you have, you're, you're, you're very strong,
right?
But I can tell you, I've counseled guys time and time again, who are like, I can't, every
time I actually share that I'm not okay, she freaks out.
And then it's easy.
Let me ask you a question, because how early that is shared in the relationship matters.
Like I met a guy once a couple, I don't know, two or three years ago.
I really liked him.
He could have been a good option, but he shared his brokenness so fast.
And we did not have enough deposits of healthy for me to pick that up.
So this is really on a marriage.
In relationship.
I was talking as Brene Brown is like in this, like, let's go back to the video, right?
Okay.
So you're talking about in marriage, you've seen this happen where men say women can't
handle it.
Or, or we just, it's so it's like, okay, if I'm dealing with X, Y, Z, and whatever, A,
right.
And I can share maybe X and Y, but like Z, you know, it's easier for me to mitigate.
Like, I don't want to have to pick up pieces as well as deal with everything that I'm already
in.
Right.
Yeah.
Go ahead and jump in, David.
Yeah.
So sorry, I just got a clear thought.
I think for me, I'm in a place where I've stopped trying to figure it out.
So I always used to see it as a puzzle, right?
Like, Oh, like they're saying this, does that mean that, does that like, I love to figure
it out.
And what I've, what I think the Holy Spirit's been leaning into is like, let me do the work.
I'm going to do the work in them.
You do the work in you and let me do it.
And so what I've just been trying to do is giving people space to be them.
And honestly, like one thing I've noted is that sometimes my tone can change and I might
be saying the exact same thing that I said to somebody, you know, like three weeks ago
and I thought it was funny, but today, you know, it might've been a bad day.
I lost a friend recently, you know, like my tone shifted when I lost my friend and I had
to talk to the person who I was seeing and saying, look, you know what, you're right
this week, I've been kind of a dick, like kind of a jerk, like someone just because
of my tone and, and, and I'm really hurting and, and that's not fair on you.
And, uh, we figured it out and whatever, but yeah, I think she's right.
But I think you just both have to be honest and say like, Hey, we might not make it to
a hundred tonight.
And you know, like, how are we going to take care of our family?
Honor God.
We have to have a plan for kindness, right?
You don't have to have a plan for guys.
So to your point, Mike, it's interesting because see, like I, when I think about
being secure and safe with Brian, I never equate that with, he's got to have a shit
all together every single day.
Like, and so part of me is wondering if the women that are saying that, like, if
men are saying that, are these really godly women who are, who are given the
pushback?
Because even in Jackie's book and like everything that she talks about, it's,
you know, it's about being vulnerable and honest.
And I don't think in any, even when we talk about the divine masculine and the
divine feminine and Bob, you're not that probably not in that section of the book
yet.
But, you know, we talk about the role of the man and the role of the woman, but I don't
think it ever includes, or she's ever expecting, like, I don't think that, like, David presents
like he's got it all together all the time.
You know, can I just comment too?
Yeah, yeah.
This is a dialogue, so yeah, jump in.
You used to use the example of roles, right?
So I think that's an important distinction here, because there is a difference.
You play a sport, you know, baseball.
Not everybody's going to be the pitcher, because none of the rest of the field, you've got
nine guys sitting on this pitcher's mound, nobody else is playing the role.
You can't win.
You have a role, and a woman's role, a man's role, should complement, but not be the same,
right?
So when you use the example in the video, I would say, for even a more extreme example,
a husband, wife, and two kids are walking down the street.
Somebody approaches them with a gun.
What do they expect?
Who's going to step out first, the man or the woman, to defend the family?
The expectation is the man's going to step out first, that he's going to put his life
ahead of his wife and his family first, right?
So that's a role that he instinctively would want to play in that situation.
In the video, I didn't set her hearing—setting her context for when they're 25% or 30%.
If a woman comes home, or a man comes home every night, and in their role, they're saying,
I'm 25%.
I can't be 100%, then that's going to be exhausting to the other person if every night,
that person, in their role, is 25%.
100%.
Yeah, 100%.
And so I don't think the implied is that—I think it's more like they have a daily check-in,
you know, for each other, kind of the thing.
And so you're right.
And actually, to kind of what Mike was saying, I think even a husband would get exhausted
if his wife came home every night and said, I'm pulling 10.
And he's like, yeah, I got to pull the 80 or 90.
I think he'd get tired at some point, and he would want her to start pulling more in
the energy.
It's just this idea that when you get married, it's not like you always have 10, 20, 50%.
Like right now, you guys, I've got a paper due this week, which I'm really procrastinating,
and I really should be finishing my paper.
And so I feel like when I have a—the week I have a paper due, I'm lucky if I'm pulling
a 30 or 40.
But like the second my paper's done, I feel like it's my time to flip the switch and like
pull my weight.
Go ahead, Mike.
You know, and so, okay, so there are things that come at you.
If your standard is you're both at 25 and 10, that's just not going to work.
That's not going to—I mean, like, so you—I don't want to use this analogy, but—or this
is not an analogy, but this—so my ex went through cancer for three years.
She was at a five or less, right?
And so I was pulling everything, you know.
And then—so then she got better, and I had been getting an hour or two of sleep a night
for three years straight, right?
And I got wrecked, right?
And she couldn't—and I just wore out, right?
Oh, and then my son's autism.
That's right.
It was two years of fighting to get him tested for autism.
And she couldn't handle me not holding the fork, right?
So I never got a chance to—and then she filed for divorce, which is great.
Well, see, and Mike, and I would say in your instance, that totally sucks.
Like, she can't pull 5% for three years, and then when your exhaustion kicks in, because
you weren't meant to carry 90, 95% for three years.
Like, to Bob's point, nobody could sustain that.
So, but I do see—so then my thing—and I think, you guys, this is a great—this
is a great thing to be checking in dating, right?
Is, is she okay when you're not okay?
I mean, because, right?
And if she's not, can you work through that?
Otherwise, you're always going to have to be okay.
Amen.
Well, and I—and that was just all I wanted to bring up.
And I love that, Mike.
So are you saying to me—because that doesn't seem fair to me, because if you have guys
saying to you, I can't be okay, like, I always have to be okay, like, that's not, that's
not life.
That's not humanity.
I don't know any husband—I don't know any great marriage where the husband would
say I was okay the whole time.
No, no.
But being able to share that you're not okay
and not have them freak out.
And that's what I'm saying.
And make it.
So a lot of, so this is what it's like,
you know what, I'm really-
I feel like this might be a good teaching
for Bethany or Jackie to do for the women.
So that's why I want to hear more.
So like, so I have, so I counsel a lot of dudes.
A lot, right?
You know, and I've done a lot of marital counseling.
And he's like, hey, I share,
like she's like, I got fired today.
And I'm scared to death to go home.
And like, and you're like,
he's like, cause I know she's not going to be okay.
And I'm already having a hard enough time
because I just got fired today.
And now, and I don't even want her to know
because now I have to deal with me getting fired
and her freaking out because I don't have a job, right?
And like, and, and, and, and just seeing a dude
like literally in my arms crying, right?
And like, he's like, I know she's going to freak out.
And I didn't, and I, I can't, and this is,
I mean, that's just one of many different things, right?
And so like women want vulnerability.
They want, and every dude wants to be able to be not okay.
Right?
But we, I have found, right?
That when we're not okay, a lot of times women aren't okay.
And that makes us not want to be not okay
because we don't, it's easy.
It's hard enough to mitigate what we're dealing with,
but having mitigate what we're dealing with
and what she's now bringing to the table, which just adds,
it's like adding another thing to the thing, right?
I love this.
I mean, I think this is, that's why I'm saying,
like, I think this might be a great topic
for Jackie or Bethany to be teaching on.
Like, you know, how do you partner with someone
who's having a not okay moment?
Because like all the women in our program
that are kingdom women and they want a kingdom marriage,
there's, I can't imagine how hard that would be
if they walk into a marriage thinking
he's got to have his crap together all the time.
Like, and I would argue the healthy women in our community
know that he's not going to be okay sometimes.
They just need to know he's got a plan or roadmap
or like, hey, I'm not okay today,
but I'm not giving up on us.
Because I think when women hear I'm not okay,
they internalize it into, then you're not okay with me.
Then we're not okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you're not okay, then we're not okay.
That's what I hear you saying.
And so that's where their panic is setting in.
Like, as opposed to,
Brian can be having a really bad day
that has nothing to do with me.
And you know what?
Old unhealthy me couldn't separate the two.
I would have thought if he was having a bad day
that I wasn't doing something to make him feel better.
That it was, I was still lacking
because I wasn't helping him feel better.
And so I feel like this is a really good thing
to kind of sit on with both sides to go like,
it's okay to not be okay.
But back to what Bob was saying,
you just can't sit there forever.
But it's also okay for somebody to be not okay.
And it's not about you.
And it's not about us.
Well, it's not sure how to respond to that thing.
Go ahead.
I don't, sorry, I don't know how to,
I can't figure out how to put my hand on this thing.
I saw some people raising hands,
so I can't figure that out yet.
Just jump in, buddy.
Just jump in.
I don't know if you ever hear
of the Love and Respect series
that this Erickson couple, I think it's Erickson.
I can't remember their first and last, their first names.
They're called the Erickson.
Emerson, yeah, aggregates or whatever.
Yeah, Love and Respect, truly amazing.
Yes, yes.
And to your point, Michael,
you earlier talked about the job situation with somebody.
And he used the example in the respect,
the concept was she needs respect,
he needs, she needs love, he needs respect.
And they feed off each other.
And that the biggest thing he needs from a woman,
the husband needs from the woman
is respect and belief in him.
So when a guy comes home and says,
oh my God, and I've been in this situation, I lost a job.
It's like coming home that, you know,
a lot of times your identity is wrapped up in your career
and your job, suddenly you lose it, right?
What he needs is her belief in him
that he's gonna get through it.
And he will rise above it
and enforce that in him, her belief.
And I mean, the book was really clear
how important it is that a woman doesn't realize
how important her belief in him is to sustain.
It's probably the most important thing is for.
her. The one person he wants in his life to believe in him is his wife.
All right. I'm going to pull up while you guys are talking. I think I,
I have from the divine masculine and feminine
teaching and it's technically
in phase two. So I'm going to pull this little summary sheet up.
Da da da da. Hold on. Where'd you go? I lost you guys for a second.
All right. I'm going to share this cause I feel like this list is also
really good. Cause this is tying now back into
look at your dog. So cute. Oh my gosh. My dog's the best.
She's the flower girl. The flower dog pictures. Those were the cutest things.
Oh my gosh. You guys, my dog was the flower girl. I mean,
you can't make this up. Okay.
All right. Do you guys see this divine feminine session outline?
So I kind of summarized what the divine masculine is and the divine
feminine. So the, so the, you know, per Jackie Dorman. Okay.
So what does God say is the divine masculine?
So here's what,
how you all are designed and what we're looking for.
Men should be the order keeper. They kind of keep things in order.
They are the defender of the woman.
They are the dispenser of justice,
kind of like defender. When you guys talked about that,
if somebody comes up with a gun, he's the defender,
he is the provider and we don't think just financial,
we mean he's going to provide, he has the covering,
he is loyal and he is a helper.
Men like to fix stuff.
So it says men have a hard time with women who look like they don't need
anything. And so for the women,
I have more here cause it's obviously it was a teaching to women,
women are the nurturer and,
but we have to make, make sure that we don't,
men don't need us to mother them. Nurturer is not mother.
We are a counselor. We can give wise counselor,
but we don't want to turn into the therapist for the man.
We are gifted to bring wisdom and discernment.
And it says here that wisdom and it says, however,
with a broken unhealed heart, that can sound judgmental.
And so Mike, kind of like what you were talking about.
If you're meeting men who say that their wife can't
handle something,
I would say that she's probably got some unhealed places into her heart
and she is getting a little judgy McJudgy.
Women are also supposed to be the comforter.
They're supposed to be bring peace and Shalom.
They're supposed to be meek, which is not weak.
And they're supposed to be the receiver and we are supposed to be
fun. So that's what she describes as the role. You know,
I think Bob, you were talking about the roles of the men and women.
And so when you're looking at that list,
you guys do better when you get to excel here and women do well,
when we get to excel in our,
in our divine roles. So in seeing that,
I feel like when you merge those two topics,
it becomes unsafe for men when
women don't trust that men will be their provider.
Like they can lose the job and still be a provider.
They can lose the job and still be the protector,
you know,
and they both have to build that up in each other.
Like to your point, Mike,
I would hope that I would be the wife that says, actually, you guys,
you know what? When I first was dating Brian, I mean,
we don't talk about it a lot.
But in the first month that I was dating Brian, he was very unhappy in his job.
He was already looking for another job. And in fact, I said to him, I think,
I think you're not hiding enough in your current employment that you're not
happy. Like just from what you're sharing. He's like, Oh no,
I'm totally fine. No, he was not fine. I mean,
he literally called me one day to say, well,
they asked me to resign. And, um,
I think it was a really hard phone call for him to make. And like I said,
we weren't even dating a month and I could have been really judgy
about it. I could have been like, Oh my gosh, he can't provide for me.
Like who's the, you know, and I just was his biggest cheerleader.
Instead of letting that be his worst moment.
I was like, well, you know what?
Maybe you were a little too blunt and honest, but you know,
you've got all these other things going and you know, you guys.
within a week he was interviewing and ended up getting a job which ended up being a promotion.
So God had him. But Mike, to your point, I can't imagine what it would have done for our
relationship if I met that conversation with fear and disappointment in him.
One example from classic literature that like fits this perfectly is Charles Dickens' book
David Copperfield. There's this character, Mrs. McCobber.
Her husband is going to go into debtor's prison and everything and she's saying,
I'm never going to desert Mr. McCobber. Just so sweet the way she is in that book.
I love that. I read David Copperfield in high school. I've not heard that in a very long time.
What were you going to say, David?
Yeah. So I think about providing, I had a conversation in the past relationship I was
in recently that I just let the person know, I was like, hey, financially, because she lived
two and a half hours away, I was like, I can't keep driving to you every single week because
I was like, this is costing me, with gas and food and fuel, minimum $100, but it was around $150 a
week. And I said, my budget's pretty tight right now. And so I just let her know. I was like,
this is what it's looking like. And so that really hurt her. She said, well, God would want me to be
with a man who can provide. And I said, okay, but I said, but look, I've already got a plan.
I know how much it's costing me to keep going. So yeah.
I'm telling you what, you guys, I'm really glad we're having this conversation because I really,
want to talk to Jackie about this offline because I think that we want men to provide for us,
but I think it's really unrealistic and unfair to think, I mean, that's a lot of money,
David, for you to have to put up. And I mean, I don't know.
So that's one of the, and I think that's too, like, I mean, and I talk to a lot of ladies too.
So it's not like I counsel everybody or coach, sorry. I got to, you know, but I do think it's
something that's important. Like every dude wants to be a hero. Right. And like when you come home
and you get, rather than comfort, you get condemnation or concern or like freaking out,
or it's like, it doesn't become safe. Does that make sense?
Yeah. And I think for me, I was always raised that it's not how much you make,
but it's how well do you manage it? Right. Like, are you managing your budget and are
you living within your means? And are you being realistic about what you're actually spending?
Yeah. One of the reasons why I'm not doing long distance dating, it's not that I have the money.
I got 45 grand sitting in my bank account right now, but it's that I don't want to burn through
that because that part of that's a ring. Part of that's a wedding. Part of that's a future.
Right. And, and so I could date long distance and if something actually kicked off that the Lord
allowed me to, but I'm holding that with, you know, I'm actually homeless at the moment, which
is kind of funny because the Lord won't let me allow me to sign a lease. Right. Which is kind
of a weird place. I've never been in this place before. And I'm like, well, it'd be so much easier
just to go get a place right now. He's like, hold out, wait. Right. And so I think there's things
like, Mike, where are you staying right now? Where are you staying tonight?
I have my, I have friends, like, you know, they have a, they have a huge warehouse and I'm good.
So like, um, and he's teaching me to lean on other people, which is not one of my favorite
things to do. I think, you know, I'm growing. This is, and I think that's part of this process.
He's like, I'm not going to let you be the solo no more. Right. Like, you know, I'm going to make
you depend on community. So, um, but I, I just think women don't understand. Well,
yeah, actually that's fair to say. I was like, I don't want to be harsh, but I don't want women
understand that the power they hold. Oh, okay. Sorry. Like I said, like a, your, your wife,
right. Has immense power. And there's, and like every dude wants to be a hero. And when you get
crushed, you don't feel like a hero. You feel like a failure. And when you come home and you,
if, if your wife was like, and Renee, I love your story, your, your, what you did. Right.
Because he never lost here. He never lost hero status. Yeah. I know. It's, it's kind of like,
you know, um, or just, um,
like when you lose hero status, it's absolutely crushing. Right. And, um, and I think that's
something that women don't understand, like, yes, you can.
freak out. Yes, you can, like, I don't know, but it's God who's the provider. Like right
now, I'm like, I, I'm kind of in a relationship, kind of not, but like, I'm like, this is,
this is bizarre, and not atypical for me. This is, you know, and like, but I'm feeling
very vulnerable and very, and my work sucks. And like, like, Lord, what are you doing?
And I'm like, I don't know if I can try, like, having somebody who could be entrusted
with that. It sounds like you weren't right. And be like a cheerleader and not be a helpmate,
not a, a weight. I think I think that's a lot of times. And yes, you guys are wired
for security. But if you you know, but like you said, you see that he's not tied to this
and that. And if you actually were tied to the Lord is the provider, like Jackie met
David and David was a train wreck. As far as like,
he always talks about how he was ready to file for bankruptcy when they met.
And so like, and, but like bringing that, because that's a cute story. But it's a reality
sometimes. Right. And I think it's great in theory. But when you're, you know, a lot of
women aren't prepared for. Okay, the odds are you get married, there's going to be a
loss of job at some point. It's just it's just something that you navigate. And there's
going to be that. And to Brené's point, there's a lot of times where one person's
pulling more than the other. But like you said, it's, it's important that it isn't that
it flips. Yeah. Right. Or, or it gets back to baseline, or like what, like when, you
know, one's not. And so I don't know, I just, I think that it would be great to do a call
on like, hey, this is what happens when a man gets crushed. And this is how to love
them and cheerleading well. And yes, you're going to feel XYZ and kind of you may be
freaking out yourself. But you're what he needs from you is a cheerleader and somebody
to, you know, lift him up.
How do you feel or think that some of this has been, you know, womanhood, or role has
been cultured out of her also, over the last 3050 years, right. And I'll tell you, I worked
in a professional environment. And I have some closer women friends who've told me at
time that, you know, they've gone into meetings with guys and men and, you know, senior people
in an office had to have difficult conversations, they walk out of it, and they walked into
their own office, close the door and broke down and cried. Because they felt in that
room in that table in that setting, they had to be just like the man in that room. They
couldn't be vulnerable, they couldn't have their own weaknesses, they had to go away
and be able to be what they really felt was I want to break down and cry right now. Right.
So I think sometimes this culture is also impacting the ability for a woman and man
to be what is a more intrinsic role in nature.
And it's hard because Bob, a lot of the women, especially once they get to like 40s and 50s,
like a lot of us have had to be the boss, babe, we've had to walk into meetings, and
we've had to put on a lot of masculine energy. And I think what happens is, you know, they
kind of come into this program, and they want to reclaim that feminine role that we were
designed to be. But I think sometimes it's coming from a place of exhaustion or frustration.
So it's like, that's it, I'm done being the man, I want somebody else to provide for me,
like, I'm ready to be provided for and cared for, like, I can't be the feminine unless
you're going to step up and be masculine. And that's true, but it does, it still has
to hold space and grace for that masculine man to have hard days.
Well, another thing to think about, I was just gonna say, like, sometimes I feel like
the women need to step back to allow the man to be in the masculine role, because I sometimes
feel like in some of my past relationships, like she was expecting me to step in the role.
But the reason I wasn't filling that role is because she was not stepping back.
Yeah, for sure.
Go ahead, David.
So this is a bit off topic, but today I was praying and I said, Lord, could you please
let it be Renee tonight? Because I have a question for Renee, and I don't know what to do. And I
said, God, I don't know her schedule anymore. She's been married, but can you please be Renee?
And then when I saw Rizzo, I was like, okay, good. So I'll ask you very quickly,
because I know we're short for time. But so I, I'm talking with Phoebe again,
and she was the one that texted me like, why do you like me? Why did you like my profile? Right?
And so I told her why I liked it.
I gave her a sincere answer.
And her reply was like,
oh, thanks for your honesty.
You know, fourth quarter, here we come.
I'll see you in community when I come on sometimes.
And you know, I'm glad you're involved
unless you're single, right?
Do you feel like she was just giving you the brush off?
No, I actually think that's her way of flirting.
Okay.
And like, and that's how what Phoebe does it.
It's like, she'll write me a letter saying,
hey, I really like you.
And then she'll say like,
oh, but I'm afraid so I can't.
Like that's been me and Phoebe's dynamic.
Wait, how long have you been doing that?
So with Phoebe, it was like May.
And then I cut off communication
because I said, I'm no more like push and pull.
So like, I just cut it off when I started last year single.
Then she wrote me a big letter saying,
hey, I really like you.
I care about you.
Is Phoebe not in our community?
She is, yeah.
Wait, I gotta get my phone.
It was on the charger.
I gotta see who this chick is.
Uh-oh.
Because I don't like hearing that anybody
in our community is doing a push pull with you.
That's pissing me off.
I don't like that.
I wouldn't want anybody in this community
doing the push pull.
I'm gonna come back to you while I'm pulling her up.
Mike, did you have anything more to say
about the other topic we were heavily in?
Well, I had a question too, but yeah.
So the other topic, I just,
and I think the ladies need to know is like,
most dudes aren't, we wanna provide,
but we're not looking for that role.
We wanna partner.
Yeah.
Right, like we want somebody that,
not that she has to pull all the weight,
but that like we work together, right?
Yeah.
So like, I suck at-
Phoebe Milton, is that it, David?
Yeah, I'm in.
Yeah.
Okay, keep talking, Mike.
So anyway, so this gal that I have been
in community with for a couple of years,
her husband tried to kill her
and then that was special, really broken.
And anyways, like that was a couple of years ago.
But anyways, when I'm talking with,
like, should I expect,
so there's the pursuer part, right?
Like I'm supposed to be a pursuer, yada, yada, yada.
But isn't there supposed to be some reciprocation
or, right?
Like, you know, and so I was like-
Yeah, Jackie has said that women should match
the energy if we're interested,
we're supposed to match the guy's energy.
Yeah, and so like, yeah,
so I haven't had a whole lot of,
I mean, she did come back once,
but then, so last week I was like,
hey, how are you doing?
How's your kid?
Because she's got two boys, right?
And I'm just trying to just get to know her
and I'm not looking to, you know what I mean?
Like, and she's like,
well, I want to get to know you too, yada, yada, yada.
But then I haven't heard, it's been crickets since
and I've been going through a crap ton.
You know, like I've been getting obliterated.
So I haven't had the energy or haven't cared.
So I should, I just let it ride and let it go
or should I actually continue throwing?
Well, so here's what I would do.
And this advice would be for anybody,
including David,
is if you're trying to get to know somebody,
you're like, hey, I'm available next Thursday
at 5 p.m. for about 30 minutes.
It's a really busy week,
but I want to make time to just,
you know, get to know you a little bit.
Can we do that time?
And if that time doesn't work,
do you have another time?
And if a woman's not booking that time with you
and she just, but she's like,
oh, I'm really busy.
I still want to talk to you.
But she's, and I would say this goes both way.
When I hear from a guy and they're like,
oh yeah, I really want to make time for you.
But that time doesn't ever have a specific time and place.
And that's just, that's just crap.
I don't have time for that.
So you want to put energy.
And so that's what you could do, Mike.
You can say, hey, you know,
I looked at my schedule for the week.
I've got this time available or this time available.
Do either of those work for a video chat
on Facebook Messenger or FaceTime
or however you like to communicate.
I would be really specific.
And if she can't make those two times
and she doesn't offer an alternative,
then I would let it be.
Because like when we're together on like Wednesdays
when she shows up, we have a great time.
Oh, when she shows up live?
Yeah, like I thought we really connected
and then I'm like really confused.
Well, I mean, she is going through a lot.
Well, and I think people,
I think people enjoy people's company,
but this is where I feel like
what separates the wheat from the shaft.
This is where you find out how serious people are
about putting in time to a relationship.
It's one thing to show up and know,
oh my gosh, I'm going to see Mike.
He's so much fun to be around.
That's different than I'm really serious
about giving Mike some attention and getting to know.
to see if this could go anywhere.
Okay.
You know, and so like, that's what's confusing about it.
And so that's where I would be like,
I would be really specific.
And if she says,
and if you give her a couple of times to choose from,
she doesn't pick either one of those times
and she doesn't offer an alternative, I'd leave it be.
All right, cool.
Thank you.
Yep.
Okay, so David, back to you and Ms. Phoebe.
How far away from you is Phoebe?
Two hours.
Okay.
Is it still gonna be this expensive train ride,
doohickey to get to you?
Yeah, but Phoebe was always more willing like to come.
Okay.
So you and Phoebe have been dancing since May?
Yeah.
Okay, so what has stopped you guys from actually seeing,
have you seen each other in person?
Yeah, three times.
So we, this is before I did the heart work.
So we saw each other three times.
And then I wanted to have a conversation with Phoebe once.
And then Phoebe said,
I actually want you to write it all out for me.
So I did.
And then that blew up.
And then we had a very,
we had like a last conversation and it was really peaceful.
And she just said, hey, I like you, but this is scary.
And you know, on the one hand, I like you,
but I'm also afraid, so.
So is she recently in the program?
No, she's like two years in.
So anyways, then I was like, you know what?
She just asked me a bunch of questions.
She's like, hey, like,
and I didn't know that she was asking me heart work questions
but I just didn't have the answer.
And so I said, you know what, Lord,
I wanted to do this program.
So I did last year single, not trying to get her back,
whatever, I just thought, you know what?
I just know that I need to work on me.
And I just thought that she was just
not really that interested in me,
but more just was like,
the purpose was to just develop myself
and maybe meet somebody great, right?
And then didn't talk to her for like six, seven weeks.
And then she did an interview with Jackie
where she just said, hey,
I haven't felt connected with anybody.
And then, you know, like basically every connections
I've had, it's just been level one.
And then after that interview,
she wrote me a huge letter saying, I really care about you.
You weren't, you know, like,
and then we talk and then she slams the door
and she's like, actually like, I don't like you at all.
I don't know why you would think I'm interested.
So then I just walked away from it.
And then I met Evelyn and Evelyn and I were going great
until Evelyn became obsessed with Phoebe.
And I don't want to talk about-
Wait, how did Evelyn know about Phoebe?
I mean, the guys have been walking with this.
So they know this journey.
It's David and Pia's nodding.
But-
Did you tell her about Phoebe?
No, so she figured it out
because she wanted to know who referred me.
And there's only five Canadian women in the program.
So she, by trial of error, who did you know?
Does she know Phoebe?
She only knew her just because she likes to
add all the Canadians in last year's single.
And so they had been texting a little bit
but not really knew each other at all.
And then one time we were driving and she was like,
and I said, oh, that's a really great church.
Cause it was Phoebe's church.
And I, she told me all about it.
And so I just, and I, she says, oh, like,
how do you know that?
And I said, oh, a friend.
And then it was like three hours of who do you know?
And I said, oh, that's Phoebe's church.
And that's the only time I ever brought up Phoebe.
But then Phoebe would come up every single day.
And then it all escalated when Evelyn was like,
I need to tell Phoebe that you're mine.
And you know, like.
Oh, oh no, oh no.
Yeah, yeah.
And then I was really setting some boundaries
and those boundaries just were getting walked all over.
Yeah.
And I just, and I just, in kindness and in truth,
the Lord woke me up in the middle of the night
and he said, David,
you need to cancel your plans with Evelyn.
And he said, you know, this is for me because tomorrow
I'm going to give you a box of gold on Monday.
And I thought, oh, like,
maybe that means like words of affirmation, men's group.
No, I found an actual box filled with gold.
Shut up.
Yeah, I can grab it if you want to see it.
I believe you.
Yeah, but like my 24 karat gold, diamond rings,
sapphires, rubies.
So, Evelyn.
But then.
No, but that's obsessive.
I mean, here's the thing, you guys,
we're not supposed to do that in community.
We're not supposed to manipulate,
just because we know there are women in the community,
we're not supposed to manipulate that.
Yeah, so that didn't work out,
but I really tried to be kind
and leave her better than I found her.
I really was working on that.
And I learned a lot.
I was really happy when I was with her and, you know.
So are you still giving Phoebe any of your attention?
Cause she don't sound good either.
No.
So Phoebe, when I went back on dating apps,
I did hit like on Phoebe and then Phoebe texted me saying,
hey, why are you liking me?
And then that's why Phoebe then started texting me
and saying like, oh, like, why did you like me?
I told her why I liked her.
And then she said like, oh, well, I guess I'll see you.
And, you know, I said, oh, I'm looking for.
or do we connect?
She says, oh, I'll see you in community.
And I was like, how do I respond to that?
I don't think you should respond at all.
No, no, she's already told you.
Well, see, I just feel like that's,
I mean, I'm just being a girl here for a minute.
If I told a guy, if a guy private messaged me,
like one of you guys private messaged me
and my answer back was, I'll see you in community,
that's me blowing you off.
That's not me trying to get one-on-one time with you.
Right.
But I think she, but let's face it,
Phoebe might like you liking her.
Yeah, and I felt a little used.
I don't wanna use that word, but I was like, oh, like.
You just wanted me to tell you what I liked about you,
why I liked you, and now you're like, no, see you later.
Not good enough. That's what I'm saying.
There was a little bit of an ego scratch there.
Yeah, like, oh, it's like, yeah.
No.
Mike, I'm praying for that for you too.
Yeah, I hate.
What happens a lot, the ego scratch thing.
I hate the ego scratch thing, dude,
that just drives me freaking batty.
I'm like, you know, it's like, oh, you just got all,
like, oh, look, you know, the flower,
like, your plumage is fluffed up, right?
It's like, oh, and that was all it was about?
All right, you know.
But that also shows you you're dodging a bullet.
Oh, yeah.
Like, I mean, I would much prefer
that it happens early than late,
than after, like, you actually get attached, right?
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
Which, for me, is like 30 seconds,
but, you know, like, that's okay.
I mean, A, that's a bummer with Evelyn
because she let her own insecurities ruin a good thing.
But was Evelyn also the one that was kind of complaining
that with your whole, like, it's costing you
a lot of money to go back and forth?
Was that the same person?
Yeah, so Evelyn was also like,
I want you to be the man and pay for everything, so.
Right, and then she told me, like, well, you know, like,
oh, like, I, she's like, oh, you should've told me.
I have, like, $150,000 saved.
And I was like, oh, well, like, anyways,
it was like the whole thing of, like, I don't know.
There was a lot of different dynamics there,
and I just tried to leave her better than I found her.
And, yeah, but with Phoebe, like, I've written,
I haven't sent it yet because the Lord told me to wait.
And I was like, I need to wait on this.
But I was gonna say, like, hey, like, you know, like,
you know, like, YLS has been great.
David Dorman's mentorship has been great.
But I'm thinking now maybe I shouldn't even send
that text at all and just leave it.
I think she actually wants to dangle you a little bit.
I think she wants you to reply.
And I promise you, mark my words,
you're not gonna reply, and I give it 30 days.
She will reach back out to you.
She will find another way to connect with,
if she still needs that ego boost,
she, now, if something else distracts her, she won't.
But if she still needs an ego boost,
she'll find a reason to reach out to you.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, and I just wanna talk about that whole thing.
Like, you know, I don't have a problem paying for it.
Like, honestly, I prefer, like, taking care of it.
Like, you know, I mean, that's, like, my preference.
But not as a gun to my head or, like.
Exactly.
Like, I want a partner, not somebody who's, like, you know.
Anyways, so, like, so I think, I just wanted to,
like, you guys, like, partnership's great.
You know, and then, and, like, David,
I love that you're, like, hey.
Have a seat, come here.
Oh, hello.
Hello.
Hey, Brian.
Okay, he's coming back.
I told him to come out,
because I wanted to ask him a question
for you guys to get his perspective on something.
Nothing like putting you on the spot.
Have you guys met Brian yet?
How's it going?
You introduced us once,
and I told him he was good looking,
and then his face went so blush.
That's right, that's right.
Okay, so one of the things that we were talking about,
we're talking about a number of things,
but one is, you know that 50-50?
Yes, yes.
They were saying that sometimes
that they're getting flack from women
who don't let them show up with less.
And then Mike brought up a really good story
of a man, he was counseling,
and he lost his job,
and he didn't want to go home and tell the wife,
because it was like, I was going to let her down,
and I was telling them about how,
you know, what happened at Galen.
And so how did I, like were you,
because we'd only been dating.
not even a month. Were you at all afraid to tell me, were you afraid that I was going to
feel like you wouldn't be able to, how did you know I was going to be a safe person?
That's such a loaded question.
I mean, it's just because it's how the relationship felt from the beginning,
in all honesty, right? So we were, well, I mean, we became best friends. And so then that's when
I felt like I could tell you anything. And the question after that was, is whatever your
response was. And there's always two opportunities for people. They can either respond or react.
And we don't want people to react because that's always negative. And being somebody that's in the
medical profession, let me just put it to you this way. If you were sick and you went to the doctor
and the doctor gave you medicine and said, come back and see me in a week.
And you came back in a week and then the doctor says, oh, well, you're reacting to the medicine.
What does that mean to you? We got to change course. We got to do something different.
So if the person is then going to react, then you've got to figure out where they're coming
from. And is this some sort of trigger that was going on prior to you being together?
Or do you just have that relationship and you have that trust in that relationship? Because
I'll be honest with y'all. I'm not an easy truster. My number one rule when I meet people
and talk to people is trust nobody. And then number rule number two is don't ever say anything
you don't ever want to hear again. And then rule number three is always referred to rule number
one. But anyway, so the key was is that I just felt so comfortable with Rene and that
she was my best friend and that I could tell her anything and that she would be supportive.
And she was. And so I really don't I don't know what I would have done if she would have responded
differently or if she would have reacted because, you know, that could have been a catalyst that
threw us into chaos because it was totally unexpected. Maybe not so much, but I'm one of
those where I like to speak my mind. You don't ask me a question that you don't want the truth to
because that's what I'm going to do. Right. And so my boss at the time had asked me a couple of
really hard questions and I gave her a couple of really hard answers that required her to do some
reflection and her reflection decided was it was time for me to go because she didn't want to hear
the truth. And so if you are. I guess let me say it this way. If you don't feel like that you could
tell them that. And they would be supportive, then you're with the wrong person.
I don't know how else to put that. I know that I have been I've prayed for
Rene for a very long time. I've been was single for six years and had, you know, my marriage
was not good. Even though I was married for 13 years, probably the last four or five,
even six years of my marriage was not good. And so I would I just continue to pray and pray and
pray. And when I got divorced and was released from that burden, I just prayed for and I wasn't.
This is where God has a sense of humor because I always said I just want somebody to a love me as
much as I love them and be helps my relationship with Christ grow. And this is what I got.
So I mean, but I saw that to say so some of what you were saying is because we were pretty early
in our relationship. And I how I reacted could have broke us really, because I could have been
like, Oh, my gosh, he's not gonna be able to provide for me. And I also could have done the
well, if she fired him, what does she see in him that I don't see? Right? Like, if she thinks he's
fireable, should I be breaking up with him? And so like, that's where I think Mike, to your point,
like with the whole ego thing, it's just like, I'm just I'm glad we talked about this, because I'm
sad that more women aren't supportive of y'all when you guys have a bad day. And honestly, even
what you just said about the reacting thing, David, that reminded me of how I feel like
Evelyn responded to the whole Phoebe gate.
It's like she just very much reacted, like she had a lot of reaction, and that was probably
coming off of some other wound that had nothing to do with you, but you were the one left
trying to navigate that, for sure.
So there's a medical term that's called, oh gosh, it's a form of PTSD.
And so what happens is that something in your either childhood or growing up in previous
relationships causes, is a trigger to bring back those types of memories or that feeling
that you can get.
And so the goal is to have that communication with your partner to say, you know, you got
to talk about things, and this is where honesty is good.
And that's why that whole 50-50 thing is crazy.
Because you just come up and then, for example, I'm going to use that example.
One night we were talking, and I said something to her, and she goes, okay, this is now the
third time that you have brought this up, so you have to tell me what that means so
that I don't keep doing it.
So she felt comfortable enough to bring that up to me, and we were early on in our relationship
with just shows that we had developed that friendship and that we were able to have that
communication.
And I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
You know what?
You're right.
So I went ahead and we talked about it, and then she was like, oh, okay, great.
And so it's really, I can't say more than just it's all about communication.
It really is.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
Thank you, guys.
You're amazing.
Yeah.
Thank you, guys.
You bet.
I mean...
You know, we're both here to support you guys.
I just, I wanted him to come in because I was like trying to figure out, like, what
is it?
What did I say when he did lose his job?
Like, I'm, you know what?
You're right.
Like, I must have trusted him enough that I didn't overreact.
And I guess now that I'm hearing him say respond versus react, I probably responded to him,
and I probably didn't react because there was probably a part of me going, oh, shit,
I'm in school.
I don't have any money.
You need to be the one making the money.
And what if you get another job somewhere else that's even further away?
Like, you know what I mean?
And so, but that has to do with, that's why you guys doing the heart healing is so important
because if I was not in a healed heart space, and I was in a self-preservation space, then
him losing his job, kind of back to what we were saying, Mike, you were saying women feel
like they can't hear a man say, I'm having a bad day because we equate it with the relationships
not doing good.
And so, see, that's how fast my brain in an unhealed place could be like, oh, my gosh,
he's going to lose his job.
He's not going to be able to come see me.
I don't have any money.
How is he going to be able to come see me?
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, we spiral, and this is why doing heart work and having those conversations with each
other is so important.
And so, that's why, David, I don't want you playing with Phoebe, playing with your heart
at all.
And if Evelyn didn't trust you, then bye-bye, sister.
And Mike, that girl from church, if she doesn't want to agree to book time with you, like,
you all are amazing guys doing the hard stuff.
You're doing your heart work, and you need to be with women who are going to be your
champions.
100%.
I couldn't say that any better.
And I mean, really, in all honesty, that's like, that's the gist of it.
And I think you keep telling me that Jackie says this all the time.
It's a yes until it's a no.
But you got to have what those boundaries are.
You can't just keep passing up those nos, like, oh, you know, it'll get better, or no,
it'll get better.
Yes doesn't mean sitting with abusive behavior.
Correct.
Like, it's a yes until it's a no.
I have done that too loosely in the past, and I've tolerated bad behavior.
So it's a yes until it's a no.
It means give people a chance, but it doesn't mean get walked on.
100%.
It's in there, down there.
It was so fun talking to you guys tonight.
Yeah.
Always a blessing.
Happy for you guys.
Thank you.
Very congrats.
Yeah.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
I mean, we're certainly not perfect.
Last week, y'all, we live in.
500 square feet of space.
And last week our communication skills were like.
Mud, capital M-U-D, mud.
But I love how you.
He kept going, he kept going, how did you not hear me?
You were sitting right next to me.
And I said, did I respond?
Cause if I didn't respond, I promise you, I did not.
It's selective hearing, selective hearing.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
I like, you know, but like, I just think it's, you know, I think you nailed it.
Like every, you know, like your word champion, every dude wants
to be his bride's champion.
Yeah.
Right.
And like, and we'll, and we'll go through fire and do anything.
A hundred percent.
Like, like, like a hundred percent, literally.
But man, if you lose that status, there's nothing more painful.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad we talked about this.
Cause I really feel like this is a topic we need to revisit with the ladies.
Because I don't think some of them realize how their words can be knocking you guys
down off of that champion status and how, how some encouragement could really be
helpful.
Well, cause when you do your words, when they start breeding the seeds of contempt,
then your relationship is starting to end.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
I, I have a bit of a question.
Like, so Jackie's been talking a lot, like, okay, now we're going to focus
on like community matchmaking, but like, it would be really good to have a session
or go over, like, how do we talk to each other in community?
Cause I've, I've not talked to a bunch of women in community and they're
constantly kind of trying to use the heartwork against me.
Like, it's like things like, Oh, like that's not what, what the heartwork
says.
And then I go back to the book and I watched the session.
I'm like, Jackie, you didn't say that at all.
Wait, wait.
So what are they saying?
Like, give me an example.
Uh, well, like, so for instance, like, so, uh, Evelyn said like, Oh, like,
you know, you need to share your past with me.
So she's like, in order to go forward, I have to know all your past.
And I said, no, I just said to her, I said, look, you know what I said?
I said, I'm looking forward and present to the goal, but I said, my past is mine.
And I said, okay, so he listened to the heart work too.
And I can tell you, that's not what she says.
She, she will say to you shares at especially at level two and level two,
you were not sharing the past level three, heading into marriage.
You are starting to share some of the past, but she has even admitted
that there are parts of her past.
Her and David had been married 17 years.
And she'll tell you that there are parts of her past.
David's just learning about, because he will, you know, and ask Brian,
I've said this to Brian, because there's a lot of my past, like Brian
hasn't asked for the details on.
And I just said, you know, Brian, I feel like I ask you more questions
than you ask me.
And I said, what if he goes like, I really don't need to know about your
past because it's your past and you've already learned those lessons.
And I said, well, what if I do a speaking engagement and I bring up to
connect to the audience and I bring up this thing I did 25 years ago.
And that's the first time you hear about it.
And he's like, well, that's the first time I'm going to hear about it.
So you don't owe her.
You are, you owe her some themes, things that you've learned, things
that you've grown in, but especially in level two, you guys, you
should not be vomiting the past.
Oh, sorry, Brian.
I wasn't trying to cut you off.
That's okay.
Go ahead.
You ask, this is your time.
Hey, I love hearing you.
Sorry, we're over time.
But, um, I think like the other thing too, with, with that one was that like,
so when it ended, she was like, oh, by the way, like I'm talking to Jackie
and Jackie knows, like, you know, I've been telling Jackie this whole thing.
And I just said, look, I'm God defended.
And, uh, you know, like God's my defender.
And I said, I'm really proud of how we've, we've, we've ended this.
And I said, you know what?
Like, I care about you as a human and as my sister in Christ.
But at the end of the day, God's my defense.
So I'm not worried about my actions or right.
And then, and then she got mad because Jackie agreed with me.
And she said, well, you and Jackie think this, but you're both wrong.
Because if my feelings were hurt, that's what matters.
And I said, girl, you've been in this program five years in my
head, but I didn't say that out loud.
I was like, this is the pot calling the kettle black.
You know what?
I mean, here's the thing.
We're we, none of us should be using this content to hurt people.
Like the heart work is meant to heal one another and
to show grace with one another.
It's not meant to be used as a weapon.
And so never let anybody use this content as a weapon against you.
I did realize that it is eight 24.
So we probably do need to go, but this was so much fun.
You guys, I, I, I get on it.
Just once a month.
Go ahead.
Real quick, is that email better or the DM you on Facebook?
Because I guess my biggest questions about the women
that I'm interested in is I have no clue
what their actual age is and how strict they are on that,
if it's a huge gap.
That's all.
That's like the first number one question.
I see your, I got it.
I got your message.
Oh, yeah.
It's just a test message.
It was just a test message.
But is the email better?
Yeah, I just accepted it, so you can start messaging me now.
OK, so you'd rather have that than the J-Media,
or are they both OK?
Sure, just tell me who it is, and I'll message you back.
OK, yeah.
If they're like 29 or something, and I
have a hard time telling that, then obviously it's not good.
It's not good if I'm 51, you know?
I'm sorry, you said you're 51?
Yeah.
OK.
Yeah, the issue I'm running into is I want kids.
And in order to have that, hypothetically,
you know, ideally it's like 38, 39,
but that's kind of pushing it with a gap.
Yeah, I mean, she could be early 40s
and still be able to have babies.
There's a woman we met at church.
I said, what, she's 48?
She's like, she's still hoping to have real babies on her own.
So if she's ovulating, she can still get pregnant.
So we'll be praying for you on that, David, for sure.
I'd like to have someone close to my age,
but then I'm kind of risking that factor.
So, yeah.
I mean, low 40s would probably be good for you,
and she could still have some babies.
Yeah, David, will you pray us out?
Yeah, for sure.
Father God, thank you so much for these men in this chat.
And Father, and I just pray a special blessing
over Renee and Brian.
We pray over their home, that it would be a place of peace
and a refuge, that people, when they come in the door,
they would say, wow, we just feel peace.
And when they wake up in the morning,
they would feel peace, God.
And I just thank you that this is a union
that is God defended and God connected, God.
And so anyone that's coming against them,
we just say, no, this is a marriage that is protected.
And so, Lord, we just cover Renee tonight in peace.
We pray for her studies.
And Lord, we pray that when they eventually
have a honeymoon, that'll be great.
In Jesus' name, amen.
I love it.
So true.
Eventually, you're gonna get there.
Yeah.
Well, it's not gonna be Montego Bay,
because we've been officially told no go.
But we're going to one of their other resorts in Jamaica.
That's like, yeah, Dunn's River.
So we want to try to support the country.
And so we're still, you know, so we're going,
just taking a little detour to the right.
You guys, this was awesome.
I will see, well, I think Mike's leading next week,
but hopefully you'll see Brian more too.
He's going through some training over Christmas break.
And so hopefully you'll see us a bunch more in the new year.
Thanks for now.
See you guys.