All right, gentlemen, men's heart check in December 1st, 2025.
I can't believe it's December already.
So good to see you guys here.
And Abram was just giving us an update on him being out on medical leave and
then catching up and watching in replay.
So it's a good thing we're recording these when I remember and you guys remind me.
So, um, man, sorry to hear that, Abram and all that, but, um, we're
glad that you're feeling better.
It's never, it's never fun to be in pain.
So, um, I, we have Abram, John Kenton, Dave, Mike, David from PA.
Um, what is going on guys?
Um, share with me, uh, what is your biggest take Abram Abram?
Let's start with you, man.
You've been out for a minute.
I know you've been recuperating.
Um, but other than the recuperation part, what's, what's new with you?
What's going on artwork wise, relationship wise, or just like wins,
you know, like what are you working on?
So I had all these plans until I broke my arm.
Um, you know, it's crazy how, like you just take for granted, you know, just
picking up a cup of coffee, right.
But, um, so that was, that's cool to reset.
I think, I think I needed it.
Unfortunately, I have to learn the hard way.
That's kind of my road.
Some stubborn, um, but, uh, hard work.
So I've been living with my mom for the last, wow.
Since November 4th was the surgery.
And then before surgery, I was, I, my arm was broken for two weeks.
So I've been living with my mom for about almost a month and two weeks.
And, um, and, uh, you guys know the story there.
It's a little rough, but we've been getting along great.
Um, just the first couple of weeks there, I was pretty rough.
Cause I was just, you know, I was pretty jacked up.
So my patience was short, but, um, oh, I see.
Yeah.
But we've been getting along great.
The last couple of weeks is my arms like, kind of like back together here.
I can move in stuff.
And, uh, you know, we've been praying the rosary together, praying
every day, um, a little bit, which is nice.
Kind of reminds me of like growing up, which is cool.
And then in the morning she'll put on, like, we'll put on like some, uh,
Gregorian chant, like some Catholic chant.
Um, on the TV.
So it's kind of like, it's like a holy hour.
It's pretty neat.
And so we'll pray.
We'll have like some very.
I don't know if you guys have ever listened to like champ, but it's just very holy.
Just like, I don't know.
It feels good.
It's very familiar to me.
So that's kind of nice on the heartwork stuff there.
Um, I've talked to a couple of women through some dating apps,
but nothing really hardcore.
There's just one chick I've been talking to that she lives in LA and we just
been chatting like back and forth every day for, you know, a couple of weeks
now and it's going well and just, you know, real light stuff, nothing, you know,
no conservative militia, any of that stuff.
Just keeping it light and, uh, that's good.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah.
Winds are just, you know, every day it's crazy about my arm break is that it's
not really the bones, not the problem, your shoulder and your elbow joint locks
up, like it frees up.
So like, you know, it's all about like degrees of, so like every day I'm trying
to get my hand closer to my shoulder.
So every day it's baby winds, like one, 2%.
Uh, I saw the therapist.
Yeah.
I mean, just go like this, just turn sideways and touch your own shoulder.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's amazing.
All right.
Let me try on my left.
I cannot quite do it.
Oh, okay.
I see.
Yeah.
And, uh, I got about 30 more degrees, but you were, but you were like out here.
Oh dude.
It was like a 90 degree thing.
Yeah.
You couldn't even, Oh God.
And then my shoulder is Jack.
And this is my good shoulder.
My right shoulder has been jacked, but so now I'm having to just, it's all about.
So anyways, therapist said that he's never seen anybody like be this, this
like mobile in like his 10 years.
So that was kind of cool to hear.
Yeah, that is.
Anyways, I'm on.
Yeah.
So I think that's hard work.
I think that's some wins is my, just my, I'm going to be on
disability here for some months.
So I think my wins are just every day getting a little bit better.
Yeah.
And that lady I'm talking to and my mom, we're getting along.
Uh, it's good.
It's interesting.
I mean, obviously I don't, I don't ascribe to, you know, this injury as
providential from God and.
or to get you back with your mom.
But of course, I do believe in God using situations
to be like, oh, okay, this is an opportunity here
to maybe restore some relationship, that kind of thing,
do some hard work.
So I think that's cool.
And thank you for sharing.
And yeah, those are all wins for sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'll let you guys see the scar
whenever there's more people coming on or whatever,
but it's pretty gnarly.
Yeah.
Oh, there were surgery involved too, right?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, major.
My arm was detached.
Ooh.
Yeah, it was detached.
So if you guys wanna reach out on social media,
I got videos and stuff.
Pretty cool, pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, and then I learned that Josh got engaged
like a week or two, Redhead Josh.
So that was awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
And like, he's just still so humble
and he's still like questioning himself so much
cause he just, you know.
Yeah.
One of those guys, but he's like got a lady.
It's like amazing.
So he, I don't know.
I mean, I'm just happy for the guy,
but I hope that he could like enjoy it
and not be so hard on himself.
Cause he's hard on himself.
I get to see that and watch the videos.
So I wish he could just, you know, like enjoy it, man.
And good things are coming.
Yeah, that's true.
That's a good sort of analogy with Josh.
And yeah, I pray the same thing with him.
Like, yeah, just last week we got in some stuff
and I was thinking to myself like, bro,
it's not that big of deal.
It's a big deal, but it's not that big a deal.
But it is a big deal, but it's not that big.
It's like that balance of kind of like,
I don't want to not take things seriously,
but at the same time, it's just like, it's how you,
that kind of like, it's a deal,
it's not a big deal type thing is kind of like
helping you balance the scenario of like,
I want to take this seriously.
I want to take, you know, every little thing, even seriously,
but at the same time,
I want to treat it with an attitude of not so much heaviness
as much as just working through like, okay,
this is reality.
This is life.
This is normal.
This is not just me.
This is like every man, you know?
And like, so where are we going to go with this?
You know, I think that's kind of where,
you know, things like sin, even though sin is real,
sin is a real thing.
It's a true thing.
And you can call things sins, you know?
But if you want to be like really honest
and really pure about it,
like pretty much everything's a sin, you know,
in a sense of like, if it's not like full of righteousness
and with right intention and so, you know, like,
I'm not trying to say,
I'm not trying to make theology out of this.
I'm just trying to say that anything that isn't like
in perfect alignment with, you know,
with the way heaven does things,
the righteous judge, God being good,
he's good in the sense that he is purely good.
Like for there's atonement, there is mercy, there's grace.
But at the same time,
there's also the perfection of like, this is the way.
Anything outside the bounds of that is obviously
what we would label if we're labeling things sin.
But at the same time,
when you have that consciousness of, is this a sin?
Is this not a sin?
Or I'm too much in the sin or whatever it is.
It's like focusing on the sin doesn't help the problem.
Focusing on the problem doesn't help you get set free.
It doesn't help you have the revelation of like,
what's the better way?
It doesn't help you have the revelation of like,
hey, I know this relationship screwed up,
but let's not focus on the screwed up
part of the relationship.
Let's focus on what is the healthy direction
that we need to take this relationship.
It's the positivity of this.
And it's not just positivity for being nice sake.
It is heaven's way of like full love,
full on grace, mercy, full of love
that is pushing you towards the right thing.
What's the next best thing?
The next best thing is the right thing.
Instead of dwelling on the past, dwelling on the wrong,
dwelling on all of the incorrect things.
Same thing's true with healing.
Like if you're gonna heal your arm,
if you're gonna dwell on the whole fact of your,
why me?
Yeah, it doesn't help.
Yeah, why me?
Why did this happen?
How did it happen?
How could I have, blah, blah, blah.
That's not we're gonna heal your arm. So good point. Love that
Awesome
Anything else Abram?
Kitten looks good with that
With that goatee there, man
Yes, one for one more day and then it's gone
When I grow a goatee, I call it my Todd
Because my name might be Todd when I have my goatee
Whoa, you let your Todd's looking good. That's my joke
Why why is it gonna be gone in one day Kenton?
Because we're up north here in the mines were allowed to do it for the month of November, which we call it the Movember month
Yeah, so mustaches and goatees after that December 1st
They got to come off when we go back up north because if we get an emergency situation
We're down good at that, but they're able to put an oxygen mask on us and hair. I'll allow that
So it's a compliance safety thing, that's right. Oh, wow. Yeah real mass really work if you apply them correctly
Yeah, sorry had to go there
Yeah, that's fascinating, okay cool, yeah, no you do I will say that does look good on you I like that
Well, this is one woman says makes you look older. Well, that's all I want to look like. Thank you very much
I'll take it off
Now there's there's a sense of like masculinity maturity like, you know, I don't know maybe that's what she meant who knows
Well, they never know then then the other one said man, you're scary when you got it on
Yeah, I get it
Awesome I get Kenton. Um
Kenton what's going on with you man?
For me. Yeah
I'm still a stage three with the young lady that I've been seeing for the last two years as friendships, but
Things could be could be better and she's good. She's agreed to go see some counseling because
Her kids still one of her kids still doesn't like me. And of course with that in mind
She is having problems with moving ahead
So I says well tell you what I'll pay for a bunch of counseling for you
You take them and then if you can't make a decision, but they're December we're done simple as that. Sorry
Because there's been two years already. So I can't keep on waiting for from me because your daughter
She's needs to deal with her daughter simply either kick her. Yeah, or simply
Move on. So it was decision. I have to make so listen. Yeah, December is never a good month for me anyway
Because it's simply family time and I'm lacking family have been for the last seven years
So I try to avoid December if I can
But this year I trying to do something different I'm gonna go to the States
I'm gonna see if I can't find one of those little hallmark towns for a week and just stay there for a week. Ah
Yeah, I hear that they're
They're around. I'm not sure if I've been to one yet, but yeah
But I eat up them in the States that they have them. The whole week is just geared for Christmas every night
I've got a different activity
You get involved with a community in so many words and if you like it enough you stay for the years
They get to really know you
Wow, okay, I get it. I
Didn't know that there was that was that was a thing actually, so that's kind of cool
It is good vacation spots
Okay, good good. Anything else?
Uh, I
Think that's because of the month I because I'll get a little I snapped at Catherine Catherine
one one evening just because I had enough hearing about her daughter how if she doesn't like me and I had a
had to
Apologize for that go back on it
But then I recognized it was the month of December coming up and it's never a good month for me
so I'm learning how to just
Control that that whole element of sadness and lacking family during that period of time
Yeah
Yeah, no, it's it's never
it's
When circumstances like relation in the relationship like that are not in your control because you can't control how she feels about
Her her children and then the children have their strong opinions, which they're entitled to their opinions
but at the same time like
If it's a good thing, why wouldn't they want something good for their mom?
you know, it's just it's difficult when adult children can you know sort of be in the way of a
Relationship that maybe wants to happen, but then that's very difficult. And I'm sorry that that's happening
Well, it's just a situation that I told her and I don't agree with my people says that when you
Especially when you're older and second marriage. He says you're not only marrying the woman you're marrying your family
I don't always agree with that. I says no their family's not gonna be in bed with us. I'm sorry
No, not chance. So I'm not marrying your family
I'm marrying you and from there if they want to be a part of our family the
When we're starting, I welcome them, but if they don't want to be apart,
that's going to be their problem.
Not mine.
So I'm not, I don't go with that whole round that says you're
married the whole family.
There's not in this case.
I'm not.
Yeah, no.
I mean, in an, in an ideal sense, I mean, that sounds great.
You're right.
Like that sounds good.
Oh, we're marrying the whole family and everybody's going to get
along and everything, and I'm like, yeah, that sounds really good when it does.
Yeah.
But then when it doesn't, it's just like, you know, I mean, there's, it
does go both ways because we've had, you know, at our blended family,
we're blended family situation.
Matter of fact, um, my wife, Jackie, y'all know, um, was texting with my
ex-wife today, uh, regarding Christmas, just like, because we're going back
home and there's some things, and sometimes she does like, Hey, are you
doing like a Christmas Eve?
My ex-wife does.
So we go over there for Christmas Eve.
Um, and so we have an amicable relationship, you know, and her
husband's going through some, some hip problems, some like medical issues right
now, and we're just like really praying for him, by the way, we do want to keep
Chris and that's, his name is Chris with a K, uh, keep him in prayer.
He's had hip surgery and he's having hip failure again.
I think he, I'm not sure if it's in the other hip or if it's in the
hip that he already had surgery.
I'm not, can't really, not really sure about that, but he needs another surgery
and can't get it until like three months from now.
And so we're just really praying for him to have an open spot.
That's something that would open up, that would change in his situation.
And of course that he would be just, you know, healed and out of pain.
But you know, my heart really goes out to him, but like I said, you know, it's
taken us a moment to really build that relationship back to where it's like
this, but at the same time, you know, we have a blended family and we all do.
Um, love and support and love to be together and all that her kids, my kids,
you know, that kind of thing.
And, but we've worked hard to do that.
And they were young when we, when we were able to do that.
And with adult children, that may not necessarily always be the case.
And you're right at this stage in your life.
I mean, for that to be such a large issue is unfortunate, you know, and I feel you
on that.
I feel you on that because it shouldn't have to be, I guess, necessarily,
especially at this stage.
No, because she's not getting any younger either.
And she was, her kids are going to be looking at from where she gets older.
But I do have another question to ask you.
Maybe all the guys could relate to this one.
How much do you actually talk about a situation where like Catherine does
something which is not cool.
And, but it's like my ex-wife.
How much can you actually say, Hey, my ex-wife used to do that.
And that's a trigger point for me.
I mean, I wouldn't bring it up every single time that that conversation
happens or is happening because one of two things, first of all, is it worth
mentioning for clarification at some point, maybe like the first time if it
gets mentioned, if you have that much forethought to understand, Hey, oh, this
is why this is triggering me.
Sometimes if you have that conversation about, Hey, this thing bothers me.
And you're not equating it with something that was from a previous relationship.
And you didn't know that in the moment to say that, then that's one thing.
But if you're aware of that in the moment to say that, obviously you're going to
bring that up in a very, very tender way, very compassionate way, very like, you
know, just, we're just talking this out sort of scenario, obviously you don't
want to be throwing that into a mixed of a heated emotional exchange.
But at the same time, when you have the moment to have the real conversation,
mentioning that as a point of like, Hey, just so you know, I think this is what
happens when, um, when this behavior occurs in our relationship, I might
be being triggered in this way.
So, so she's aware of that.
Bringing that up every time you have that, because at some point, it's not
about the past relationship anymore.
It's about this relationship.
So it's just like, you know, yeah, it may still be triggering for you, but the
fact that you've mentioned and brought it up is helpful, um, for her understanding.
But then once that point is made, probably don't make that the point, probably
make the behavior itself the point.
So it's kind of like, um, now that I mentioned that either in the last
conversation or whatever, this is happening again, let's talk about us.
Let's talk about, you know, when you do that or when.
This is said, or how this is said that, you know, that really affects me this way.
Not mentioning the past, but just mention staying in the, staying
in the present of like, yeah.
Oh, good.
That's a good point.
Appreciate it.
I don't want to keep up the time on that one thing.
It makes sense.
Thanks so much, Dave.
Yeah.
All right, guys.
Um, I believe, um, just looking through here.
Uh,
Hey, Paul, how are you now?
Paul, are you new?
Uh, is this your first time?
Hey, you're not, you're still muted there.
If you can, uh, unmute
while he's figuring that out.
We'll try to just let us know when you get unmuted there, Paul.
We can, so we can hear you.
You've got to figure it out.
Um, good to see Hunter.
Good to see on here.
We did it.
There's something to be thankful for Ohio Michigan.
That is true.
I've got my high, but state Buckeyes hat on right here.
It finally happened after four years of, uh, not a good times with that.
So yes.
Thank you for mentioning that.
Paul, you're unmuted there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, this is your first time.
Yeah.
David Wright told me about, uh, of course we used to be, uh, housemates
back in Kingston, Ontario, 10 years ago.
So here we are.
Great.
Well, welcome.
Um, you know, this is our men's heart check-in.
We do this every week on Mondays.
Um, we do a lot of round tables.
Sometimes we get into some specific topics, um, but we're just
kind of just doing a check-in.
Um, you know, just seeing, and a lot of us guys have been on here for a long,
long time, some are new and so that's okay.
We always want to give an opportunity for you to introduce yourself.
So if you'd like to introduce yourself, um, kind of like where you're from,
what you do and how you found out about the program, other than just
the fact David mentioned to you.
But, uh, so let us know what's, what's going on with you.
Yeah.
So, uh, 39 from Montreal, uh, Quebec, Canada, Quebec province.
Um, yeah, I, um, I'm a landscaper.
I used to be a teacher, went to university or, uh, become a teacher
and, uh, taught high school math, phys ed, elementary music, but I stopped
five years ago because around at the same time I started teaching, I
wasn't getting full-time contracts.
And so I felt like God led me to entrepreneurship.
So 10 years have been, uh, at my own hedge trimming company.
So we have a small team, but love outdoors and now it's November
changing winter tires.
So we kind of go dormant for five months and, uh, David called me.
He's like, Paul, he's like, I felt like God told me to, to
call you to take this course.
And I'm like, that's so funny, David.
I'm like, I just ended my season.
He's like, I know God told me to call you today.
That's awesome.
Um, okay.
Awesome.
Uh, we're glad to have you here.
Are you, I'm assuming you're single.
Is that correct or no?
Yeah.
And that's typically kind of what this program is about anyway.
So I just wanted to make sure we said that just, uh, just for that sake.
So, um, are you looking to, I mean, what is your previous marital status?
Have you been married?
Have you, you've never been married?
What, what's, uh, what's up with that?
Yeah, never been, never been married.
Okay.
Um, I think, I mean, yeah, I'll probably be on here, uh, for definitely a little,
a little, a little while we'll see.
But, um, I think just to jump into it, you know, I think girls have
always kind of shown interest to me.
I've always liked girls, but there's just been something kind of like
blocking in terms of like pursuing a relationship.
And when I have, I've just found like myself trying to like the gas going on,
but I feel like a big e-brake going on at the same time and doesn't, it doesn't
feel good wanting to think that's normally you, or do you think that's
normally the other person?
Um,
I don't know.
I don't, I don't want to say like, uh, it's always interesting.
The girls that I've really liked have not shown interest.
And then the girls who put interest into me, I haven't really been that into you.
So, I mean, there's that for sure.
And, uh, that's one aspect.
Um, but I appreciate it.
I appreciate.
being transparent and uh so i mean so i kind of go deep kind of pretty quickly so i know you're
new so i won't uh um i appreciate you saying that if you if you're wanting to go so we go
a little bit deeper sometimes too on these calls and if you want to do that then you're certainly
more than welcome to like press in a little deeper than that um so awesome well welcome
thank you for um sharing and congratulations on your business entrepreneurship that's so cool i
uh i'm an entrepreneur we're on we're jackie and i are both entrepreneurs and
and several other guys on this call are entrepreneurs as well so really cool stuff
so glad you're here
okay who else got um it's got something to share um is that is that it paul
yeah i think um oh i'll share i'll share this okay um it was anyways i'm working on a book
it's it's been my testimony and i think the timing's interesting i guess one reason it's
not just so much it's not so much that like david called me the timing's good but um about
yeah 12 years ago god showed me like vividly and i don't get visions it was like prayer meeting
like god showed me that i was wounded like massive wound like he showed me my leg absolutely
wounded like as if my leg was like a a chicken leg and it's like that first bite like that's what
my leg looked like the first bite oh wow yeah and i didn't feel it i didn't i never made a connection
but god showed me like i had i was covering it with like pornography like band-aids and so um
a big part of like my story was like my pornography went down like 90 percent at that
time and pretty much stopped after like two years two three years after that and i was like 2013
so i always thought i had a problem with pornography and then god showed me through
the image without saying a word he's like it's actually pornography is not your problem
he's like pornography is your really really poor solution to the woundedness like that's what like
the band-aids because it's like even me even i was saying i'm like you need like a hundred
band-aids to cover this wound and even then like band-aids don't even work like i was saying that
just based off of what god was revealing but it's interesting what he said and i'll kind of end i'll
taper with this you know god told me he's like let's have a look at this and so even though i
know in the last like you know it's still a lot of like lust but pornography i can't even remember
the last time i looked but i was always curious because i said god god never said oh now you're
healed he said let's have a look at this and if i'm truthful like i don't i still don't know what
that is and so just reading the first chapter of the book and it's like i think jackie's words were
and so i'm like oh i'm like this is why i'm here like god really wants he doesn't want to say okay
you're healed go off like i feel like god really wants to like the words let's have a look at this
is like discussion talk it out and i'm like no just heal me like let's go yeah yeah yeah yeah
that's super good um i i like to i like to hear that so i i i i uh i really glad that you said
that in terms of like you're getting this understanding of process that's something
that we don't get a lot of in our culture we don't get a lot of it in church in religion
we don't get a lot of it just in the western culture because everything is microwave society
everything has to be instance uh every process needs to be now we are not patient at all
to just walk through the season walk through the process walk through the necessary rudiments to be
able to have understanding because you know um you know you've heard probably heard the phrase
before you know your problem's not really the problem you know type thing so that's kind of
like what you're coming up against with this issue you're like yeah that's not really the
problem like you may think it's the problem but it's not really the problem like the core of the
issue is you know something that's very universal that's why you know what i was talking about
earlier like the focus on sin for instance like sin isn't your problem it's the heart condition
that leads you to the behavior that ends up being sin that is the issue and so if we can get to the
heart of the problem the you know the the part of the human problem is the problem of the human
heart my pastor used to say that the heart of the problem is the problem with the human heart
that is the issue that is the core of the issue it's like we can get down to the heart issues
then it's just like yeah it is it can't be seemingly quick
Because you go through your process and then one day you realize like, oh my gosh, that's not an issue anymore, you know, then it almost seems like a suddenly, but it really wasn't. You were just willing to go through a process to get to that point.
And God does amazing things were willing to you like that, but I love the fact that you're talking about. Let's have a discussion about you just say discussions that what you said.
Yeah, like I knew it was it wasn't the words I was expecting is like, let's have a look at this. Like it was like, have a look at this.
Circumstance, not just like your situation of like, you know, like me, like, oh, I'm really hurt. I need you, God, but in the most depraved environment and dark night of the soul that you are experiencing in the midst of the mess in the midst of the ick.
And you can have an honest conversation with God.
That's progress, because at that point, now you're not ignoring him in this wickedness, in this depravity.
You're actually being sincere enough to have a conversation to go, okay, this is not really the issue.
I really feel bad about myself, really feel bad about, you know, where I'm at, what, you know, what's going on around me in the moment.
And now I'm willing to have a conversation about it, even in that moment.
That is a powerful thing that can be a powerful step to the deliverance process.
So anyway, I just think that's interesting.
Thank you for sharing, Paul.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you for being transparent.
Mike, you have your hand up, brother.
Go ahead and share with us.
Well, I mean, I just want to get to the root of the problem, right?
Like you said, the problem isn't the problem.
The root is the problem.
The root is causing the problem of the problem.
And people are like, I have an issue with porn.
I'm like, you know, you don't have an issue with porn.
You have another issue that's causing you to go to porn.
So, I mean, I think that's such a good, so good.
So I have a question.
I suck at dating.
I'm getting better.
But there's a gal in my life that when we're together in community, there's a spark.
There's chemistry.
There's connection.
But then I've been trying.
So it's like one of us has been a month, right?
Not a lot of reciprocation.
And I'm like, I don't know.
Should I just not worry about it and keep progressing forward?
I'm like, I have all these ladies who are like, hey, let's go.
And then I have this one that's like, you know, slow to move.
Right?
And so, like, but when we're together, I dig her.
You know, I don't know how we fit.
I mean, I don't know how we fit spiritually.
I mean, she's in a prophetic group with me.
But every gal that I've ever seen or interacted with, I could see how our gift mix is intertwined.
And this one I don't have.
So anyways, I'm just open for ideas.
I like my thing is like we're in community.
Maybe I should just bail and let it go because I don't see and I'm not seeing what I want.
Or is that me just being avoidant or should I just let it play out?
Does that make sense?
You know, should I continue to give us more time or should I just.
Yeah.
No, it makes sense.
Anybody.
You know, I always have something to say about stuff, so I'm just trying to.
I'm just trying to get the floor to you.
Mike, when you say reciprocating, what do you mean?
Like, can you have an example of a scenario?
Well, I was like, I was like, I was like, hey, you know what?
If you want to go do this, go do that.
And then there's just been no.
I mean, it's a little more complicated situation, but like there's been like I just have been invited into my life.
But I haven't got the invitation back.
But then when we're in community together, it's great.
And I don't get the juxtaposition.
It's like a it's a Jekyll Hyde thing.
And this is probably a little.
It's very different when I'm trying to.
And maybe she doesn't feel.
I mean, she should feel safe.
We've known each other for two years.
Right.
But it's just different when we're in community than it is when I'm like texting.
I was like, hey, I'd like to I'd like to have more of you in my life.
She's like, you have my number.
Right. And so then I got her number and I'm trying to connect with her and it just hasn't worked out.
And she's a single mom and is going through stuff.
I want to be, so that's kind of the whole picture, you know, but she's only a single
mom every other week, so.
She knows you met romantically?
Oh, I made it, I'm pretty clear, yeah, I was like, you know, I spelled it out.
I like being straightforward, right?
And then she told me her Thursdays were available, but then crickets.
She's doing your hair.
There you go.
So a couple things, I mean, yeah, a couple things that would be helpful.
I think, it feels like you're doing the right things, you know, you're being in proximity,
you know, so you know her on a level one because you know who she is, you know her name, she
knows you, that's, you know.
And then you pursued, and then it hasn't, for whatever, logistically worked out.
I feel like maybe she feels, this could be her truth, I don't know, I don't know her,
and I don't know your interaction with her, I don't know what that looks like in community.
I feel like maybe she feels safe in the community aspect, but for whatever reason on the one-on-one
aspect, she doesn't, she's not confident of what she wants out of that.
And the helpful thing would be for her just to realize, hey, this guy is actually pursuing
me, you know, it's okay, because it's, there's nothing wrong with a guy pursuing a woman
like, hey, I just want to let you know, I'm just, you know, state my intentions or having
done that over time, asked her out, whatever, and then give no reciprocation.
It would be actually pretty valuable and honorable for her to be able just to let you know one
way or another, you know, yes, I'm interested, no, I'm not interested in that way, because
if it's that obvious, she should reciprocate one way or the other, especially given the
amount of time.
Like, if it was a day or two or a week, you know, something like that, and she's like
trying to consider, and there's no, that'd be one thing.
But if it was multiple times, you've known her for two years, this has happened over
a period of, you know, whatever time that you have let her know this, I mean, yeah,
she should, by this point, at least have the decency to go, hey, you know, I appreciate
your efforts and all that, I'm just really not interested in that way, and just let you
know that, so that you don't continue on with this pursuit that may or may not go anywhere.
But at the same time, if she's open to it, it may just be for whatever reason, maybe
just something you don't know in terms of just her comfort level.
If she is open to it, and she would like that with you, and like to spend time, I'm not
sure there's really anything more you can do about that either, because you don't want
to press that issue, you don't want to feel like, hey, you know, try harder type thing,
you know, that comes across as sort of not so great.
But at the same time, you can say, hey, you know, I've been asking you out, or I've asked
you out three times or whatever, there hasn't been any response, or it doesn't seem like
you're interested.
I just want to let you know, it's okay to tell me if you're not interested, you know,
and then just leave it at that.
And then maybe you'll get a solid answer.
But it's one way or the other, it can't be...
That's kind of what's my thing.
I mean, she sits within a foot of me every time I sit down, right, you know, like, so
she's like...
And she comes to you.
Yeah, right.
And so it's just the whole thing is like, you know, I'm not, this is not my area of
expertise, but like everything, when we're in community is like, we're just, we connect,
we gel, we whatever, but then outside of it, it's not.
So all right, no, I just was just running that, because part of me is just like, I just
don't care.
I don't care anymore.
Right.
But I do dig it.
Ignore her.
Not ignore her, but what I'm saying, think about it.
This is what I do too.
Like, okay, if I text someone, or someone texts me and I'm not really interested, I'm
slow to respond.
Because I'm not, I'm just like, oh, man, I feel obligated because they just text me.
You know, I wish they wouldn't have text me, kind of.
And so, I mean, if it's easy, I mean, you were saying you got other women who, you know,
would be, you know, interested in you.
But if it's like easy and you're like, no.
So you kind of been, it sounds like you're kind of like, you got it laid out.
Women don't want to hear it all laid out.
They deal with like, how you make them feel and emotions and, and mystery.
And everything else when you lay it on the table and even like if you some girl said oh, I really like you
I went you're just like yeah, okay, you know and there's no
So just kind of maybe don't
If she comes sits by you go maybe get up and do some other stuff moves and just life
You know and it's her choice. Maybe she's afraid that to get in a relationship or something
But if you really want to be with someone you make time and you respond quickly
You know, yeah
Yeah
There's always the movie script like John's talking about like you can be like the brooding like, you know quiet
Like, you know just over in the corner cool guy. That's just like, you know, like
Seemingly unavailable, you know, that's just so attractive to like, you know, I mean you could try a little bit of that
You know, I don't know if that will work
Most of women's attractions in their head and the story that they create true. Yeah, you know what I mean?
And they just drive off that otherwise
If it's easy and stuff, there's no they don't have any story that they're making
Yeah, so cool. Thanks. Yes. Yeah, I
Think you've got to use the word date
Like just say like like make sure when you're talking to her say like hey
Do you want to go on a date and just like like make it simple like nothing crazy like oh, let's go for a walk
But I find if you use the word date because you're so friendly. She might just think oh Mike is so friendly
Right now trust me. There's there is no there there can be no can I don't leave room for confusion because I that's that's kind
Of a douchebag kind of thing to do. I don't know like, you know, sorry, whatever
But like I just I know I have a lot of ladies who guys string them along and that's not something I will do
Right, right like in situationships, it just drives me crazy and so I will not be that dude
Hey, wait, those ladies are probably obsessed over those guys too. And that's all they think about
Broken and you know, and so and like but they're also like I don't really really want those kind of ladies either
I want somebody with their crap together. Who is it? Like smoke swaying by
But I do I do hear what you're saying John about the whole intrigue and all that stuff
But it is kind of hard when you don't want to pee in your own pool
Right, you know like you know, like I mean like because you've been friends for a while
This is a small group a really tight a really tight small group, right? And so
Yeah, thanks for your insight. Yeah
Thoughts to is that it's tight. And so she doesn't wanna I I don't wanna I don't want to throw another like direction in this
But anyway, I just thought it's out there. Do you is there is there a wing person involved?
Trying to get involved, but I'm like, I just I figure she should be reciprocating without me having to enlist a wing person
Well, absolutely thousand percent. I just thought I'm just
So there's somebody trying to be my wing woman, right and I'm like, I don't know if I want that
Not the introduction part but sort of just like the friggin like what's her? What's her deal part Intel Intel?
well, basically like so so my friends are doing it but they do events and
and she's like well, I need your help Wednesday so you can and and
She's gonna be there and I'm like I could give us a crap right now
I was like Thursday was the day we were supposed to hang out and now you're putting her to work
I'm like, okay. She's like, well, I'm setting you up and I'm like, yeah, I didn't want to be set up
But anyways, so I'm a little kind of perturbed about the yeah
the winginess
Yeah
Yeah, now the response back to the wing person. This is like hey, that's kind of cool
She's gonna be there. But I mean if you know this person that well, and they're you're they're your real friend
I mean one of my best friends. Yeah, bro
Like I asked her out on Thursday now you put into works like serious
I mean, I just want to go on a date, but if she didn't seem like she wants to so I don't know
What's going on with that?
so
you know usually
That other person would be kind of like, oh, well, maybe I'll try to find out maybe you know, whatever you never know
Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, I'll just I think I'm gonna let it ride
Yeah, cuz I just was gonna blow it up
Not blow it up as far as like or let it go. It's probably a better word, you know
So anyways, thanks you guys and I just I'm like, you know, this isn't this isn't what I was looking for
But I don't want to be impatient
Yeah, yeah, you know, so thanks that's that's good stuff, um, I don't know who's next I think well on my screen
It's Dave and then hunter and then David Henshaw. So Dave, right?
Go ahead. All right. Sounds good. Can you hear me? Yeah
Yeah, so I I had my phone call with Phoebe on last week and it went incredibly well
like I was just kind of I was just focusing on you know, just kind of like
Like no agenda just kind of being focused, you know and like
But yeah, she basically talked for the entire time and she just said I actually really like you. I really care about you
I've missed you
She said I've just gone through a horrible ordeal and I was really afraid and I didn't want to hurt you
but I want you to know that I really really care about you. I've never felt this way about anybody before and
Yeah, and then at the end the way it kind of ended was she's like
Oh like is there anything else you want to ask me and I said no, you know
Like I I said, I have no secret agenda here and she said really and I said, yeah
She said Dave that means so much to me and she said just watching you grow has meant the world to me
She says you bring so much humor and light to this community
And she's like you've been just been such a blessing and she's like honestly, it's been amazing watching you grow
Wow, that's huge man. That's awesome
Yeah, I I didn't see that one coming David. So you feel good about that?
In the sense of like, okay what you were worried about before. I mean, it's pretty strong
What we what you're worried about before is not so much because it's a smarter understanding here coming in
Yeah, I think with Phoebe it's always the push and pull right so she'll like write me a letter saying I care about you so
Much and then she'll be like actually I don't care about you at all. Right? So there's always that dynamic with her
and so this time my plan is to just
After this I was just gonna text her and be like hey like do you have like 15 minutes maybe midweek to just
Talk and then during that talk. I was gonna say like hey like on the 18th or the 17th
Do you want to meet because she lives two hours away?
do you want to meet halfway for a one-hour walk and then
After that, my plan was kind of be maybe just text her three times a week
Like half-hour video call, but just keep it slow not overwhelm her
Okay, but you didn't have anything to say about that because she talked all the time
Which maybe yeah, it's just her getting that off of her mind off of her heart and being able to let you know that
And you were appreciative of that and you didn't push any other agenda, which is pretty honorable. That's pretty powerful
Yeah
So in that case like my wife says this to me all the time
She goes you are
Prioritizing your agenda over relationship. And so in that case you prioritize relationship over agenda and
That is a healthy thing especially for women, you know for them to hear to like basically she surprises like oh my gosh
You don't have anything like no and so that did speak volumes of her
Maybe that will really open that up to something more
For you, yeah, baby steps, that's powerful. That's good. Yeah, I love that. That's maturity. That's growth. That's awesome
Thanks for sharing Dave. Um, go ahead. I don't know somehow hunter and David switch places
But I said go ahead hunter and then we'll go to David
Well, I want to talk about more about the trip
About my trip abroad because I was as I saw David I was honing my social skills
So I met some so when we were abroad I went I met there are five young adults including me
There was one girl at church. There's two and three and then there was there were two other women that were
from that were from a day that came and joined our group and then one of them was
Alicia the others Alicia and the others amber who met us up from JFK and we all and we all flew abroad
And of course, I tried to say okay hunter be the best version of yourself
Think about how you want to be treated and it went good and we matched to be in a level one
one or two of them I went I managed to be in a nice level to level one relationship and
Over time as the year went by we end up being level two
With some of them and then there was one girl who's going through stuff that has a heart
She went alone and she's the only one who's alone is not with the group. She doesn't go to our church
She's from South Jersey. And then there was one who is in who is it from?
Pennsylvania on the border at the Maryland, Pennsylvania border this one girl was
Alicia when we met she goes, alright, so you're not gonna go look you're not gonna make happen
You're just gonna go try to build some intimacy. That's something you can't get in pornography
You want to you want to do some intimacy because that's what everybody wants
So if that's what you if that's what they want, then that's what you want strive for that
And then so I built a level two relationship
with that
After that and then I did with all those it's like it's okay if I ask for instance, okay
So now it's like okay
and then we try to eat and then we talk about the trip and about each other even on our way to the airport and
Then there was one girl who has conditions. She has hard time sleeping and I was like, well look at your condition and
And I made a compliment, even though it was not harm,
she takes it really, she got really offended.
And then I just behaved naturally like I do,
not like try to, not walk,
look like I'm walking on eggshells.
But then she, and then all of a sudden came to this.
All of a sudden I told him,
I'm just a guy who wants a break from my independence.
Cause Alicia told me that she was,
she really has seen people with disabilities,
but she really loved that part of me.
She really respected the fact that I don't let my decision
or special needs define me.
I just break away and work like everyone.
And then, and then one time we were on our way to Ephesus
and I had to get up and she knocked on my door and say,
come on, get up.
I was like, all right, oh, I'm not dressed all the way.
Come on.
And then finally I got on the bus just in time.
And I finally got my book bag and she goes,
I was like, you are one sister in Christ pounded girl.
So, but then she and the other girls will walk by,
but I didn't trail along because I'm thinking,
you know, if we were going to level,
even if I'm in a level two relationship or so with them,
if we're going to be on level three,
I should be going with them, not the other way around.
It should come naturally.
And then, so we were on roads and then she goes,
and then Esther and John were leading from our church.
And she goes, Hunter,
you're being a very good at behaving around women,
around these girls, because you don't try to,
you don't keep following them and try to tattle on,
make it happen.
I was like, yeah, I know.
I'm thinking if we were in level three or dating
or she were into me,
we would see different behaviors from that,
but we're not seeing that.
And so on.
Next up.
I love, I mean, I love the growth.
I love the maturity.
I think it's going to pay off well for you.
I really do.
And then there was one thing when one goes like,
oh, I like your neck.
And then she goes, don't want to hear again.
Really?
I was like, oh, I got chastised for it.
I was like, no, Hunter,
you got to be careful with all these things.
Cause I said some things that naturally were a turnoff,
even if it was not intentional,
instead of beating myself up over it,
just making it look bad.
I just say, shake it off and try to keep turning.
They're going to get turned off and I'm not aware of it,
but just keep it to a minimal
and hopefully they'll grow in you.
And then I apologized to,
I ended up apologizing to her.
And then there was one girl at the end
who is the Maryland and Pennsylvania girl
who stood next to me during the rest of the Malta trip.
Even when we were on the bay and we shared and we connected
and we shared and we talked, we found common ground.
And then she was in postal service.
I was an Amazon guy.
And then she told me about,
she showed me her pictures and I showed her mine
and told us where we're from.
And there was intimacy, there was connection.
I was just getting a taste of ingredients
I need for a level three relationship.
It may not be a level three
and we maybe have a significant age gap.
She may be a grandma,
but at least I got a taste of what I need in a level three.
Nice, nice.
I like it.
Thanks for sharing that, man.
I'm gonna go straight to David Henshaw
because it's right after eight o'clock.
So I just wanna make sure we're good on time.
Go ahead, David Henshaw.
Hey, I just wanted to say a quick update.
Like I think it was two supernatural Saturdays ago
about the kazaza and realizing the kazaza myself
with the very extreme things that's gone down
in the last two to three years of my life.
And recognizing that if I'm still holding up walls
over here, it's gonna put a wall between me and God as well.
It doesn't, I can't be selective
and think it's just one box over here,
one box over there, one wall over here,
one wall over there.
And then I can still connect with God.
It doesn't work like that.
So that's like been a real huge breakthrough today.
It's powerful.
With the last 24 hours.
So I feel more connected and then just dealing
with things that are more, I guess, embedded.
What was mentioned earlier really helps a lot
with what seems to be a problem is probably the bad solution
and not really the problem.
It's a deeper heart issue.
Like what was mentioned earlier tonight
about porn and that.
I think it's really interesting that one of the things
that helps us as men is our ability to compartmentalize.
We have the ability to not, for instance,
if there's a physical task or emergency situation,
for instance, we have the ability to just put emotions
aside and just do the task at hand.
That's a really powerful male characteristic.
It's what we're good at.
But at the same time, that same behavior also helps
us separate like.
you're talking about the experience versus like the relationship with God. And that's kind of like
where we're like, we fool ourselves into thinking that this and this are two different things,
and it's not. It's like all together, like the revelation you're having, like, you know,
why am I putting this in a category over here? And then, you know, having this development
situation with God or whatever, having the conversation in the moment or having the
conversation through the process, having the conversation in the season, because the reality
is that what's happened to you is no different than what's happened to many, many, many other
men. You know, whether it's just complete devastation, complete failure, complete like
just like, you know, lost it all. I mean, type of thing. I mean, there's millions and millions of
men have gone through that same process. It's not the fact that you went, it's not the fact that
it happened to you. It's the fact that you're going through it. It's the fact that there's
more to be had. This isn't the end. This is just part of the process, part of the journey.
And so, like, if you can have that conversation with God in the journey, even in the worst of
circumstances, then, like, that's growth and that's process, that's healing, that is like
help, rather than just completely being without any help. Make sense?
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
I love that you're having that revelation. You're like, you know what? Because at some point,
I think this is kind of like what happens with men sometimes. They're just like, I'm just tired of
dealing with this alone, or I'm just tired with dealing this period. I'm just going to stop doing
this. I'm just going to go the way that I know that's the right way to go. I'm going to go,
I'm just going to have the conversation. I'm just going to like rip the Band-Aid off. I mean,
why am I protecting myself so much in my pain and misery and suffering? And instead, just have the
conversation, just have it out. You know, this is the Bruce Almighty moment. You know, Bruce
Almighty, the movie, where he's like, smite me, almighty smiter. And God's like, okay, now we're
having a conversation. You know, he's thinking it like this ultimate rebellion, like, I don't care
anymore, you know, whatever. You know, I'm just pissed at everything. And God's like, okay, now
we're having a conversation. Now we can do something. I can deal with that. This is why
the scripture talk about when you're cold, I can deal with it. When you're hot, I can deal with
that. But God's like, I can't deal with lukewarm. I can't deal with the middle. I can't deal with
like inactivity. I can't deal with just like you just like coasting through, you know, I can deal
with you like on the extremes, because I can bring you back to center. And so I think that's
kind of what you're talking about. You know, and that's exciting. Yeah, powerful revelation.
It's it's connection is finally coming back online after being, you know, I mean, I struggled with,
I mean, I joined this community like a little bit over a year ago, a year and maybe a few weeks. But
I mean, I really struggled at times, not that I plan anything out,
out, but was just kind of suicidal. I kind of lost the will to live as kind of like, you know,
I did everything I could the best I do how in a relationship. And because of my blind spot,
I got totally I got totally rocked, you know, in a bad way. So but the other thing I'm recognizing
is recognizing that things that were offensive or overwhelming, or would almost get to the level of
causing like a psychotic break, because it was just so traumatic that that I felt like I was
digging into that today with the any any situation or past relationships that you know, might not be
healthy for me to still be in right now, but like realizing that I threw out the baby with the bath
water. So I just repented, I go God, everything that was involved in this that was good. You know,
you know, I'm not gonna keep rejecting that, but all the stuff that was not healthy,
that's can still stay out with the bath water, you know, but like what I did is because it was
this such a hard break and a survival instinct is just like, you know, burning bridges, throwing
out the baby with the bath water, whatever reason you want to use. So yeah, so yeah, that's
Thanks for sharing, Dave. That's I really appreciate that.
And I really just let's fan the flames of that.
revelation, let's fan the flames of you, like allowing that light switch to be turned back on
and finding that purpose and finding that drive for you. That's going to be your best effort.
It's just like, okay, I can't make this happen. I can't make anything, you know, but I can allow,
you can allow God, you can allow other people, you can allow situations, you can allow
the good stuff, you know, and that's where our strength lies in the allowing of whatever's
going to like push us in the right direction. Yeah, it's surrendering with them and not
surrounding out of an independent spirit. So yeah, I'll end with that because I don't want
to go over time. That's so good. So good. I appreciate it. Hey guys, God bless you. Have
a great week. I'll talk to you next time and good to see you guys. Enjoy the holidays as well,
as much as you can. Thanks, David. Talk to you soon.