All right, welcome to men's heart check in December 8, it is 710 we're a little late,
had to get the wife set up on the other zoom that she's doing tonight with couples we just
launched heart work for couples.
And so we kind of went back and forth.
Probably it eventually probably be for couples to help some that are not quite married but
for right now, it's really intended for married couples.
And so let's be really good.
We're excited about being able to serve those that are now married, and have been married
for some time.
So she rewrote literally the entire heart work book to be.
I mean it's a completely new book, but it's hard work for couples and we're launching
that we launched out as a course as well so tonight's the kind of first check in on that
as well so that's kind of cool.
And so she's doing that.
And I'm over here with you guys.
It sounds like you guys have been getting into the straight away.
I was hoping those would be here tonight that's kind of cool.
Most thank you for being here and you're part of the community but it's kind of cool
seeing you.
And welcome.
And kind of sounds you guys got into the topic pretty easily pretty quickly on fasting.
I don't know how far you got into that but it's kind of cool.
I didn't, I don't want to interrupt the flow of like what you guys were going for but anyway
if there is a flow if there's not a flow that's cool too.
No David just it was encouraging me he made a comment that he really enjoyed the book
and we just kind of, and then Mike just just had a question and we just started talking
and it just bollied from there okay yeah well good good yeah no I really I've already told
the guys on here about your book and and I do recommend it I think it's good I think it's
good balanced kind of pretty end to end approach to the subject of fasting and I told Lewis
I said you know as someone who grew up in church you know I have a 45 year or more history
with the Lord and the things of the Lord and and tenets of the faith that kind of thing
and fasting has never really been one of those things that was really I don't think in my
life to at least to me has been preached well to me represented accurately or you know
in a positive enough light to where it was really taken seriously and I just really appreciate
Lewis's book to kind of like at a time where I felt like that word was necessary for me
to really understand the power of fasting as a sacrament of the faith and not just some other
Christian thing to do it is different other than I mean it's on the level of prayer it's on the
level of communion it's on the level of every institutional sacrament that you can see in
and not the ones that we've made up in our traditions for hundreds and maybe even thousands
of years that are other than so I just kind of think that's kind of cool especially in modern
day you know there's some in the modern day not only Christianity but just in the world in general
there's there's always a quick fix there's a formula for this there's five steps to this
there's you know the quick action bonus to you know getting your life together and getting a
breakthrough or getting some sort of you know whatever answer to prayer or whatever it's there
are spiritual and both secular versions of it and I just felt like this topic got really cut to the
chase it's like if you're a follower of Jesus and you're having an encounter and a revelation of
Jesus and you're like and the Lord is leading you spiritually into that obviously fasting can be a
just an encounter mechanism a sacrament that you can follow that's like wow to really open doors
but I also think the breaking of strongholds is something that can be very powerful through
fasting and so I was just like okay I'm not trying to necessarily fast to try to do something
particular I'm allowing the fast to tell me I'm allowing the experience to tell me what it is that
I need what it is I need to encounter what it is that I'm discovering is falling off and that kind
of thing and that's kind of what it spoke to me
And I thought that was really powerful, because I'm like, look, I'm sick and tired of trying to engineer my next step, trying to engineer my next breakthrough, trying to engineer my next advancement.
I, you know, really sitting in the presence, and just yielding to a process that is not just a gimmick, but it is literally truth.
Something that Jesus himself did like Jesus was like I'm not trying to make things up as Jesus. I'm really just looking at the Father trying to do what he's doing.
And that's powerful.
I Jesus was like, Look, man, I'm not trying to like make stuff up because I'm Jesus.
I'm just doing what the Father's done, and one of, and the most powerful way as a human being as he was for me to do that was to lay aside my flesh, and to press into what the Spirit of the Lord is saying.
And so even if Jesus did that, we certainly need to do it.
And we can go far.
That's one of the things that, you know, I just did a leadership thing.
That's where I met Lewis, and kind of like I kind of knew of him before I'd never met him in person but we would set a leadership thing over the weekend.
And one of the things that I was going there to get out just get a breakthrough in was just like, you know, I'm sick and tired of sick and tired of trying to like figure out what it is I need to do.
I just need to surrender to a process, you know, surrender to the truth of what is like, I'm not trying to figure the next step out I'm just trying to hear what the Lord is saying, and step into that next thing.
anyway, that's just kind of my take on that.
Guys, what is going on. How's everybody doing. There's a name that I haven't seen before Bryce.
Are you new to assist your first time on tower check in or no. Yeah, this is my first time. Awesome. Nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you. Yeah, man. Where are you from.
I'm from Portland, Oregon.
Okay, cool. Portland, Oregon. Yeah. And we have mics from West Coast, California.
Central San Jose Yeah, welcome Bryce. Thank you. Yeah, I'm in, I'm in Texas.
Abramson California David Henshaw you're in Pennsylvania right.
David Henshaw.
It's breaking up really bad on my end I didn't hear like pricey and I just want to, I think you're in Pennsylvania right.
Yeah, I'm in Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah Pennsylvania hunters in New York.
We were all over so that's kind of cool.
Coast to coast here.
Oh Ontario sorry Dave, Ontario, Canada.
Got to represent.
We're even international tonight.
Yeah, thinking, what's up with me.
I'm not, I'm not meeting anybody. Of course, I don't have time for anybody because it's peak week at Amazon where everybody's buying things so I don't have time to, I may not meet any woman.
But I guess the only thing I can do is I've been praying more times than I can count but it wasn't so much submitting to God, and communion with God it was more like me telling God what to do to make it happen when I think it's so more about me, me, really got to care about God rather than
wanting someone and put my, put my identity, make my establish my identity in that person.
Well, Hunter man I've seen we've seen so much progress and you keep going.
It's not certainly not a quota bro and meet the ladies, but you can take a week off and work hard for the holidays, because I know man, your job man I don't envy this time of year for Packers and all kinds of people doing product and shipping and retail, and
I also got the cruise coming up to but of course the cruise coming up but I'm just, I'm not gonna look I'm just gonna meet and I'm just honing my social skills like I did on my Greece trip.
Dude, you're doing, you're doing good. I think you're, I think you're doing great.
But I'm not ready to have a spear mate yet may not be ready. Right.
Hey Bryce I want to know, so you're from Portland, Oregon.
What do you do there in Portland.
Yeah, I'm in brand marketing at Nike, so small.
Yes.
Yeah, been here my whole life.
Awesome. Awesome.
I visited the Nike campus a number of years ago and it was pretty cool.
My son, my son actually does, he's in footwear design and he's an independent designer.
And he's in the process of designing, well, he's designed two shoes already for 3D printing,
3D printing footwear.
Nice.
The, you know, it was the Air Max.
The Air Max.
Well, yeah, Cornelius is our, do you know who Cornelius, Cornelius, he's, he got, he's
here in Austin and he, he was Zellerfeld.
I mean, that's probably, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know him, but yeah.
So I'm in sportswear.
So kind of funny.
I'll be working on the brand for the, yeah, for the, you need, you need to meet my son
because Jaron is a really good friends with Cornelius.
Cornelius actually the head of the CEO of Zellerfeld.
He was just with us at Thanksgiving at our house.
Cool.
And so, yeah.
Yeah.
It might be going out to Austin in the near future.
So awesome.
Yeah.
Oh, that'd be cool.
That'd be cool.
That's really cool connection.
That's really neat.
Yeah.
Small world.
Yeah, it is small world.
So how'd you hear about last year's single?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I don't know how this totally goes.
I watched your orientation.
I can give you kind of like what brought me in and where I'm here, if that's.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
That's kind of usually what we do with first timers.
Yeah.
Not to go too far back, but like, you know, I grew up Christian loosely and then it's
kind of been placed on my heart for a long time to date, like a Christian, like have
a Christian relationship.
And if I'm going to marry, like that was important to me, did not know what that meant.
Right.
And I met a girl about eight months ago and started going to church more with her and
really like not even really not for her, but started like really about six months ago,
like diving into my own faith more, reading the Bible daily, going to church, really like
God in my own way.
And we kind of rushed in, or I feel like I pushed us or led us into dating on my timing
and not God's.
And we dated for a week and basically broke up and we're back to being good friends, which
is cool.
But essentially, like I just, you know, we neither, we didn't feel like I was, or she
didn't think that I was far along in my, like I wasn't coming to the table as a biblical
leader to be truthful.
And so that got me just thinking of like, you know, it was hard, but I'm like, I need
to surrender my timing to God.
And also like, I just wanted to, to learn what that meant.
And I found Jackie's video with Christian on YouTube.
So I clicked into the website, Christian Bever.
Oh, Christian Bevere.
Yeah.
Bevere.
Yeah.
So that's how I found Jackie.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then I just clicked into the website and so I signed up for the class.
I did a coaching session with Brian.
I kind of jumped the gun maybe a little bit.
Like I did that before I even got into the course, but he was really cool.
That's fine.
And so, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at is just kind of like a reset of like, Hey,
surrendering that it's not like, I think I wanted a relationship so bad that I was looking
at it from the wrong reasons, truthfully.
And so, yeah, I'm taking a step back and just went through the first week of the course
and yeah, that girl and I are, so this, I guess maybe question, hopefully this doesn't
break the rules of the course, but like, we still are friends.
So we're actually serving at the church together this weekend.
And so it's just a platonic relationship for now, obviously, like, you know, I think another
thing is truthfully, I don't have a huge community here in Portland, like not a lot of Christian
guys around.
I have a couple of good friends, my cousin and one really close friend, you know, that
are Christian, but that was another big thing with her and she, you know, she wanted me
to have a community.
And I like, it's funny when we had that conversation, I didn't like that, you know, I was kind of
like, my friendships are fine.
I'm finding now for my own self, like I really do, that is important to me to have the community,
you know, I really might not end up with this girl.
Maybe I do like just all that to say, it's really about me and, and just grounding myself
for whoever, like, I do feel called to have a family.
I, you know, I feel like I'm good with kids, but that's what brought me here.
Long, little verbose answer for you, but no, it's good.
That's, that's a lot of detail and it's, it's good because, you know, really, yeah, regardless
if this is the one, so to speak, you know, we always, we don't really try to use that
word like in our, in this particular community, because we don't really believe in there's
just one for everyone.
The math doesn't work on that.
But when I say the one, I mean, like, this is the girl, right.
If she's not the one, you know, it is truthful.
Like what you're saying, it's like, let's, it's about your preparation.
That's what this season about.
The only reason that we put people on a sabbatical just to do their heartwork is to say, this
is just an intense season of just four weeks as you're doing heartwork to not be distracted
with trying to do relationships.
they're just trying to focus in on that. So that's, that's a good thing. I kind of good that you picked that up. Um, but yeah, man, it sounds like it sounds like, you know, um, the Lord is leading you into this, this, um, level of maturity, you know,
because that's really what it takes. I mean, all the guys on here can attest to some of them been married. Some of them have never been married.
Um, some of them been in some, some, some pretty serious relationships, some long-term relationships. They didn't quite work out. Uh, they've been through a lot of iterations of life and, um, and they can all testify that like, yeah, the individual preparation
for stepping up into everything that, that you can be in as a man, as a leader, as you know, as a husband, that preparation is without meaning that it doesn't require you to be in a relationship in order to be preparing for that.
And that's what last year seeing was all about. It's just about preparation for that moment for that time. Um, just good stuff.
Yeah. I'll share two things real quick if I can with it. I'll share two random other things with it. The timing, I feel like lines up. I mean, she was back home for Thanksgiving and, uh, last week, I'm just going to see her this weekend.
And then she's back for, she's gone for another two. So the timing was kind of, you know, it was interesting timing that it's like naturally was kind of a pause. Uh, and then the last thing I'll say just to hammer home the point of, if it's, if it's not with her, I think when I first met her, not to go into it, but we, we met in kind of a, we were introduced by someone who I hadn't spoke to in a long time and she is really, really strong in her faith.
And that was one of the things I was most attracted to. So I've kind of had this perspective, perspective shift of, I think at one point I was like, there's a reason why she was placed in my life. But now I think, you know, like maybe that was just to get closer to God, you know, and like how she really did work, whether it's with her or not. I mean, that's, that's been really cool. I'm here now in a weird way because, you know, so
Now there definitely is sometimes part of that story where it's like, you know, that one, the one that led to the one, you know, that's, that's a common theme sometimes as well. It happens that way. What's up, Mike?
Well, that's funny because I became a Christian because a gal who was a Christian in my junior high that I had a crush on, like I went to the church. She went to the church once, right? Like, and I went to that church and I saw her and then I kept going back. Tell you my intentions were perfectly holy. But, you know, but God's got a funny way of like doing that. But I have a kind of crazy.
Seriously, you're not the only one. No. I mean, there's been dozens of guys that have come to the Lord because of a girl for sure.
So I have a crazy kind of testimony. Like, I just kind of blown up. So I'm so like wins. So last Sunday, Sunday, yeah, no, two Sundays ago, not this last Sunday, like a couple days ago, but the previous Sunday, the Lord was like, I want you to die to everything.
And like, even like your desire to be married again, like your family. And he's like, you know, I want you to go help traffic kids and it's going to be your end. At some point, like you're going to be martyred, but I like I want you to go save kids and deliver them. And I was like, all right, Lord, I'll give it up. I'll take my wedding fund and I'll buy body armor, talk to my brother. And it was pretty wild, right?
And so that same Sunday. Oh, you know, Jackie says, Hey, give people permission to like, set you up, right? Well, somebody there's only two people in my life I've given permission because I trust them. About the same time I was surrendering everything. She was setting me up with somebody and not telling me about it.
And we had a four hour hangout on last Thursday that was, was just magical. And so it's somebody who I want when she first came, I've known her for several years, right? And when she came into church, I was like, please be single. And she was married. And I prayed for her husband, who is now, was now just about her ex. There was a lot of stuff going on.
But I just share that because I gave I literally was like, Lord, okay, my brother's a ranger, and I have another friend. And there's, there's some, one of the other things I profile as is special forces, like, you know, it was, you know, like, I, you know, I just had a problem with authority. And that doesn't work so good in the army, right? You know, but like, I just wanted to share you guys, I actually so.
How this happened is I've been serving my friends.
I got stripped down.
The Lord told me not to sign a lease,
so I'm actually crashing on their couch, right?
Love one on their kids.
And the Lord told me to serve them.
And in serving them, she set me up with somebody
who's amazing, right?
And so like, I wasn't looking for it.
I didn't even know it was a setup.
I just was being me.
I suck at dating, so she's like,
she can't intervene.
And I just got to be in my element,
which is serving and loving people well.
And like, I don't know, it's funny,
because in this chat, we've been texting her
back and forth.
But like, it just, you know, you guys,
seek first his kingdom and his righteousness,
and everything else will be added unto you.
And like, and when I surrendered,
you know, I mean like, it was like,
Lord, okay, I will do whatever you say, right?
Like, if you want to pour me out,
I will be poured out.
Like, you know, like, if you want me to pour out
loving their kids, if you want me to be poured out,
you know, saving kids, which I can,
you know, I grew up pretending to be a sniper.
I'm really good with firearms.
You know, I'm like, I'm really self,
you know, like, I'm an enforcer.
So like, it was like, it fits, you know?
And so, but you know, but I think he gave me my answer,
but I had to let it go.
You know, and the thing that he said was,
dead men don't react.
Like, if you've died to something,
then the enemy has no hold on you.
And so just, you know, seek first his kingdom, you guys,
you know, you never know.
Like this-
Yeah, I'll tell you, Mike, that's a good segue, man,
for like, asking just the general question tonight
in the group is kind of like,
what is it that the Lord is asking you to surrender?
And it doesn't have to be super dramatic.
It doesn't have to be super like,
you know, Braveheart type thing, you know?
I mean, what your scenario,
I'm not downing your scenario,
like what you were saying, like what Lord,
you're like, what you felt the Lord was inviting you into.
I'm just saying it doesn't,
you don't have to make it dramatic
in order to be like super serious,
but it does have to be a surrender.
Like, you know, I'm at the end of this, you know?
And I think there's a lot of things that happen
in breakthrough at the point of surrender, you know?
And the general question could be to everyone tonight,
it's just like, what is it the Lord is speaking to you
about like surrendering to him?
And the surrender is not like,
well, I'm gonna give up something that I want.
I mean, it could be like a give up.
It could be like a, I'm gonna make time.
It could be sort of a situation where you're like,
I'm just gonna be quiet.
Like I'm at the end of this, so I don't know what else to do
so I'm just gonna surrender.
I'm at the end of the road.
But it could be all of those different types of surrender.
But literally the surrender is more for the purpose
of like, what's the next thing?
Like, what does the surrender lead to?
And God's been dealing,
I feel like God's been dealing with some of you
as far as like a thing,
whether it could be putting down the fork.
It could be making time in your schedule
that you're saying yes to everybody and everything.
Maybe it's time to say no.
Maybe it's time to say no
just so you can make space for the thing
that God's trying to lead you into.
So what is the point of surrender in your life?
Something that God's been dealing with,
God's been showing you,
God's been just kind of revealing,
kind of leading you into.
I don't think God is the type of person
that berates you or beats you
or bullies you into surrender.
The struggle is there because we're the ones
that are double-minded.
We're the ones that are struggling.
We're the ones that are fixed on this outcome,
but yet we want this and yet,
but there's this in the way.
And another way to put this is like,
lots of times your breakthrough,
the very answer of the thing that you're looking for
is just one step beyond this surrender.
And it's just like, you weren't equating the two things,
but you might be equating the two things
to be now, you might be now seeing, oh, man, you know, this
point of this thing that I've been feeling, I'm supposed to
like surrender, give up, you know, sort of like, let go of
that's another surrender is letting go. Maybe there's
something that needs to be let go in your life, you're
surrendering this. And, you know, little did you know that
that surrender is leading you into the very thing that you've
been wanting. That you've been hoping for that you've been
seeking, but you never saw those together as steps that were sort
of side by side, it wasn't a it wasn't a gift to get. No, I
understand that. I understand that. Well, yeah, it was not
something that you were you it's not something that you were
seeing. Not at all. Like, that's why I didn't even notice
it. Until she told me. She's like, you realize I set you up,
right? And I'm like, Oh, you did? Yeah. And then I felt
really loved and like, Oh, God, you know, I don't know, like,
you just look, you feel God's love in that. Right? He's like,
you know, because I didn't like Lord, do you really want me to
die? Like, I'm like, I'm like, fine. I will. I absolutely will.
But I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. But if you're doing
it, then I get to be you can't threaten me with heaven.
I don't know if I I don't know if I said this. On the call. I
said this somewhere, but I don't know if it was on the men's call
or not. But I heard a teaching recently by a guy that I met
years and years and years ago, like, probably closer to 15
years ago, I met this guy one time in Michigan, and a weird
business ministry sort of situation thing. And we were
there for another reason. This guy was not the person we were
there to meet. He just happened to be around in the group. And
this guy lives up in northern Michigan, like all the way up in
like Mackinac Island, wherever that our trap Traverse City,
Miss Michigan. And this guy is like just a sales do like shirt
tie, like, you know, use car kind of dude. And he does this
Bible study. And for some reason, I have literally been on
his email list. Since that time, I don't know how I forget how I
even got my email or what it was even. But this dude just sends
out these little Bible teachings all the time. Sometimes I read
them sometimes I don't. And they're just the kind of like,
not fancy. They're not slick. They're not marketed. It's just
this dude's email. And there's this tea he was talking the
other day about Abraham. And did you understand you guys
understand that God could not do what he did in giving up his
son Jesus as a sacrifice. The sacrifice that we all know that
Jesus laid down his life on the cross. But the act of the
father giving his son up for the greater good could not happen.
God himself could not give Jesus his son had Abraham not been
obedient and not been willing to give his son Isaac. And the
reason is because God himself doesn't have the authority, the
legal right, the concept of a father giving the son for the
sake of the greater good could not have been accomplished
unless a human person had set the precedent in history for
that to be done. And so this is where God was leading the heart
of Abraham, in this sense to say, hey, you're Isaac, the
promised son. We all know the story of Abraham and the fact
that he couldn't have children didn't have children. But yet he
was going to be the father to many nations and Abraham's like,
how can this be? And he's like, well, you're 100 years old, and
your wife's 90 and I'll make her pregnant. And then Sarah
laughs. This is story told out of sequence. But anyway, we all
know the story. And then finally, Abraham still even has
a son, not through Sarah, trying to fulfill this promise, but
then eventually has this son, Isaac, who is this one son, that
all these generations are going to come through. And then God
leads him in his heart.
God didn't tell him like, Abraham, I want you to...
No, no, no.
He led him in his heart to be able to come
to this conclusion and go, I have to surrender.
I have to give up the promise.
I have to give up everything that I felt God
was putting on me, making my life all about,
culminating to this one point.
I'm going to have to give this up
because a sacrifice needs to be made.
And he goes, makes all the preparations,
gets all of the fixings.
They go ascend the hill.
Isaac even asked the question,
father, where is the thing that's going to be sacrificed?
And he said, God will provide.
The incredible amount of faith that Abraham had to exhibit,
plus the fact that he set the precedent in human form,
in human fashion, in the mind of a human,
to be able to set that precedent
of the father giving up the son,
which then would set the precedent for God
to be able then to do that,
according to the authority given to humans,
was powerful.
But Mike makes this point tonight about the provision
that God makes at the point of the surrender.
So Abraham takes us all the way to the point
where he's about to sacrifice his son,
literally on the altar.
And what happens?
God sees the heart.
He understands the deed has been done.
The line has been crossed because the father
made up in his heart, was led in his heart,
made up in his mind and said, this is the only way.
I've got to surrender this.
I'm going to give this up and this is going to be it.
I don't know how the promise is going to be had,
but I've got to do this.
He goes all the way to the point of almost full execution.
And God says, okay, I see your heart.
I see the fact that you have set this precedent.
Therefore I can do what I'm going to do in the future.
And I'm going to make the provision.
I'm going to save the situation.
And I'm going to provide the lamb, the ram in the bush
for you to be able to make the sacrifice.
The sacrifice was still made.
The son was saved.
The promises were fulfilled
and God was able to do what he does.
But the point of surrender is the issue,
is the point we're trying to make tonight.
Like, what is God asking you to surrender tonight, guys?
Anybody want to respond to that?
Anybody want to maybe say out this is,
I really feel like God's asking me to surrender this,
surrender something specific.
Dave, you've had your hand raised for a moment.
I don't know if this is what you're going to speak to or.
Yeah, well, I had a little share.
I do have something I was going to surrender to.
Maybe just expectations I had for just my relationship
or friendship with Phoebe.
I think I've just been trusting the Lord
and surrendering that to his timing with it.
But do you want me to continue the rest of the share
or just keep it to that
and other people can answer your questions?
I mean, let me just take a couple more
if there's a few more and then I'll come back.
That's okay.
Anybody else got just something, a word or two
that you want to say?
Hey, I really feel like God's asking me
to surrender something.
Nobody.
God's definitely asking me to surrender my time
and my talent.
It wasn't just this weekend,
but it was a long time leading up to that.
I'm not using the full force of the gifts and talents
in the resources that God's given me.
I'm not doing, I'm playing small, playing half,
playing half of the field, playing half court, if you will.
I think God might be telling me to surrender
the goals that I had from high school
after graduating high school, turning 20
about having at this kind of age,
since I'm 37 and I have to let go of the fear
that I didn't amount to much,
especially when I did during my thirties,
I got a new job with benefits and I got to go abroad
and I got to witness my team making the Superbowl
and had tried to make the most of everything.
And then God says, let it go.
Let go of your dream of your age limit
and I'll make it my time.
It'll be worth the time.
And also if you want to pray,
make it, want to go to a young age,
maybe you should try to focus on someone you care.
about or you've met, then if you focus on the higher person rather than the person you want,
because worshiping the person you want more than God is an idolatry and it's not really,
and you're not as likely to care, have concern for her or his daughter as much as you want
her to be your affection rather than what God wants. Yeah, yeah, surrender. You can
surrender old dreams, man. Surrender old barriers, old thresholds,
you know, leveling up to a new threshold, leveling up to a new level of participation.
Anybody else?
Come on, guys.
I think my need to always be right, and yeah, like, because I always, I'm like,
oh, like, I have to be right, and I'm like, actually, I don't know, and it's okay that I
can be dead wrong and just being like, I love puzzles and riddles to the point where, like,
I feel like I have to figure out everything, and God's being like, hey, surrender that,
and so as I've been surrendering it, like, people have just been coming up to me and saying things,
things that I never understood, and they're like, hey, I feel like I just feel like to explain this
to you about me, and they'll just like, so they're just answering the riddles on their own,
and I'm like, okay, God, this is kind of. Yeah, that need to be right, man. That's huge for men.
That's huge for men, you know? It's okay to be right, to be even correct and accurate,
but the display of having to have that acknowledgement in front of others, you know,
isn't, that's, it's, yeah, Lewis understands that, that's the drift, the need to be right,
the need to be, to look good, the need to be,
yeah, that can, that can drive you in a lot of the wrong direction.
I can tell you that's been a source of some of the conflict, you know, between my wife and I
over the years, you know, when we've had our moments, you know, there'll be a little situation,
a little something arise, and I'm like, but I'm, but I'm, but I'm right. What do you mean? Like,
like, I'm trying to, like, argue and fight and contend for my right to be right, to be heard,
to be accurate, and in the moment, it wasn't serving the relationship. It was only serving
my interest. It was only serving my agenda to make sure that she understood that I was right.
And in the meantime, I was trampling all over the flowers of our relationship,
just trying to be right in the moment, in the situation.
So lots of times in a relationship, that, that can be such a barrier to, and a hindrance not to
furthering the relationship. Sometimes you can even damage the relationship just because you
got to be right all the time. Yeah, I understand. Trying to be, go ahead. I understand that,
sort of situation. But I'm also thinking, it's like, what do you do if you actually are right?
And it's not like, it's not like I want to be right, but like, what if you actually are?
Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, like, I don't know. Yeah, no, I mean, the truth is,
you can be right and wrong. You can be accurate. You can be truthfully, like, correct.
The, the fighting and the contending for the acknowledgement and the, and the surrender of
the other person to say, you won or you're right, or that's correct, is oftentimes a damaging part,
especially to intimacy. If you're arguing with some guy on the street and you're arguing in court,
that's appropriate. But if it becomes, comes to relationship,
that's where you want to be like, it doesn't really matter whether I'm right. Matter of fact,
I will say this, lots of times women are super, super intelligent. They will know,
they know right then already that you're right. They will know and acknowledge later on that
you're right. It's just what they're waiting for in the moment, for you contending for your
rightness. They're waiting in the moment to, are you going to be soft enough in the relationship
to have relationship? And
instead of just making your point that you're right.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's about the relational value.
Yeah.
Here, the one who is by my side
happens to be here at the moment.
And she wants to weigh in on this little tricky situation.
Well, I just wanted to say one thing.
This is what I was just,
I just came in from coaching the couples,
the hard work for couples.
And I heard what you guys are talking about.
And this is where you guys,
did you ever wonder when, you know,
us ladies don't really like being sons of God
because we're girls.
And this is where you guys get to understand
what it's like to be the bride of Christ.
Yeah.
Okay, so in the scenario with woman,
with humans, you're the husband.
And in the scenario with Christ,
he's the husband and you're the bride.
So how would you like it?
And we know he's always right, isn't he?
Now you human men are not always right.
You're right a lot,
but it's not about being right.
It's about being trusted.
Yeah.
Okay.
And if you put your agenda of being right
over a relationship, then she's not gonna trust you.
Even though, okay, you're accurate,
but your attitude, your, you know, your pride.
Demeaning treatment.
And so think about Jesus.
We know he's always right.
He's never wrong,
but he doesn't lord that over us, does he?
He doesn't try to shove that in her face.
You know, a lot of times he even allows us to,
you know, in conversation or in relationship with him,
he even allows us our way,
even though his way is the best way,
just to show us that, you know, he can be trusted
and that he can lead us into the better way, right?
And so you need to keep that in mind
because you are the gender
that God has chosen to represent Christ.
I'll tell you also that there's the strength
in the masculine.
Like, I don't know.
I'm trying to think of an example,
a specific example of this, but I think you see it.
I think, you know, when you see it,
when you've ever looked at somebody
who was just a confident man who was in charge,
he's not going around telling everybody he's in charge.
Like, it is obvious that this dude is in charge.
Why?
Because he acts like it.
He exudes it.
He like steps into it.
He lives it.
And so he doesn't have to like advocate
for his own authority.
He just is in his authority.
So it's kind of the same thing.
It's like, you know, in a relationship,
if I'm going to be right
and we're having some sort of like,
not necessarily a disagreement,
but we're just having trouble communicating
because I'm trying to convey something.
She's trying to convey something and I'm right accurately.
One of the greatest strengths I can do is be a man,
stand up in that situation,
know that I'm accurate or right,
but then also at the same time contend for the relationship
instead of my agenda.
You can win.
That is super, super sexy.
You can win the argument.
I have a question.
You can win the argument, Andrew,
based on the facts and also lose her heart.
Well, yeah, I know.
But like I'm talking about,
so like here's another example though.
Like what if there's something that she thinks
is not sinful, but is actually sinful.
And like, he's like saying like,
you shouldn't do this because this is sinful.
And she's saying, well, no, like you're wrong.
Like it's not sinful.
I'm still going to do it.
It's like, well, is he supposed to just like
not say that it's involved?
Like, I mean, you can't lie in that situation.
Yeah, I mean, you know what?
That's a part of the relationship.
Again, this is relationship with God with us.
I think we all know that lying is a sin.
I think we all know that, you know,
being unfaithful is a sin.
Doesn't mean that at times we're lying.
That doesn't mean at times that we're not faithful.
God is in relationship with us to walk that out.
Hopefully, Andrew, you wouldn't be marrying someone
that you have to parent
because what you just said sounds like a parentified,
it's a parentified example.
So having to tell your wife that something's sinful
and then, you know, her rebelling against what you're saying
and doing it anyway,
that sounds like a teenager and a parent.
That doesn't sound like a husband and a wife.
So hopefully, you know, and you know, and I know people,
I know men specifically.
specifically that have very legalistic ideas of what marriage is going to look like and
how they're going to be in charge.
And it's more like a parent child situation.
And that is not God's model for marriage.
Okay.
We are equal in Christ and we are very different in our relationships with God as far as how
we, how that, what that looks like, but we're both spiritually mature and, you know, and
we both, you know, are partnering and submitting to one another in love.
So, um, so yeah, if you, if you have the mindset that you're looking for a wife, child
to parent and you want her to be obedient to you, then there are women out there that
are looking also for that type of marriage, but that is not God's model of marriage.
And the D well, I get, I get what you're saying.
It's just that like, um, it's like if I'm in a situation where I have to choose between
God's way or her way, then like, like I really don't have any choice, but to choose God's
way.
I mean, I don't have to Lord it over her, but like, I have to be true to my conscience,
you know what I mean?
If you're in a marriage and this does happen in marriage where one person has decided not
to follow Christ and you know, and I pray that that never happens to you, but they have
decided not to follow Christ and they're doing things outside of what you know is right.
Then you absolutely follow Christ.
You do what's right, but you also can't force them to do what's right.
Yeah.
And I hope that that never happens to you because that's going to be a troubled marriage.
Right.
And that's what I want to help you choose wisely with the right idea of what marriage
is like.
So you don't find yourself in that situation.
Yes.
Your marriage is going to have Hills and valleys.
That's going to be the truth, but it doesn't have to have that type of Hill and Valley,
you know?
Yeah.
That's why, yeah.
We want to make sure that we have the right mindset going into marriage and what we're
looking for, um, so that we can grow together, mature together.
God's maturity plan for mankind is marriage.
We were at a wedding yesterday and the officiant was from Africa and he was very funny and
he said, nothing is going to, nothing is going to, um, you know, and I say this too, but
the way he said it was just so much funnier.
He said, nothing is going to refine you.
Nothing is going to, you know, crash you out as hard as marriage is going to change you.
It's going to, you know, it's going to mature you and it's supposed to, it's supposed to,
but it's not supposed to destroy you.
It's not supposed to, um, break your heart.
You know, it is to refine you.
Iron sharpening iron doesn't feel that great and there are going to be some sparks, but
if you both love God and are following Christ, then it's going to be okay.
Hey, um, I heard about what they say about the, on an online date on those apps, their
profile.
They say, we want a relationship with no drama.
Well, the thing is that there's, there's going to be drama.
Even I know I'm going to happen with my spear mate.
Now there are two things I know it's either going to keep bring us to close the drama
or bring us more together or bring us further apart.
Either way, it's good.
Drama isn't good, but it's going to happen.
But the best thing we can do is get along and keep it to a minimum.
It's true.
Hunter.
I love, I love how mature you've become in this program.
And so let's take out the word drama and let's put in the word conflict.
There's going to be conflict in your marriages.
All of you.
Now there might be some drama, um, on from the outside, but we can, we can make it so
that there's no drama from the inside conflict.
Yes.
Because healthy conflict is what matures us.
And if we know how to have healthy conflict that matures us.
And so David and I made a, we made kind of a pact when we got married, that if there
was going to be drama, specifically that word, that it was going to be coming at us from
the outside and we were going to partner together to be able to weather that storm, but it wasn't
ever going to be coming from the inside and you know, we've done our hard work.
And so we continue to diffuse any bombs before they go off.
Yeah.
Our arguments don't last very long, not days before, before someone's laughing 30 minutes,
the most.
I once told David, I said, Hey, we had, we had a big argument.
And I said, Oh, we had a big argument about something.
And afterwards, like he said, it didn't last long.
We were both laughing or whatever.
And I walked into the room.
He was in, I said, Hey, I was praying.
And I just want you to know that Papa, Papa's mad at us, like God, you know, Papa's mad
at us.
And he goes, he is.
And I go, well, he's really just mad at you.
No, I said, he said, he is for what?
And I said, because we're not acting right.
And he goes, he was just looked at me and I was like, well, he's really just mad at
you.
Yeah.
That's the kind of marriage we have.
And then we both started laughing because I was just kidding and it was just funny.
I think David had a question, babe.
Yeah, David, we'll take your question
right here at the end.
Okay.
Okay, I was just gonna add in,
I guess the difference between like trying to be right
and you don't wanna conflate that
with feeling like you have no voice,
but it's more of a heart healing issue
and learning how to deal with conflict resolution.
Yeah.
I'm recognizing that lately,
especially over the last few days
that like I do not do very good at conflict resolution.
I see all conflict as negative.
And of course that fits into the whole people pleasing thing
and it's just a big trap.
And I can get so caught up in that,
I can get to the point where, I don't know,
sometimes I feel like, you know,
things are good on the forgiveness level
and when they're not,
when there are things that have been buried under that,
but I'm thankful to God for just forgiveness
that I've been able to work through even some today.
So that's like, I guess that's the earlier question
of surrenders, just working through more forgiveness, so.
Oh, that's good.
And allowing my emotions to be felt,
but not like pouring gasoline on them
because that's like the other extreme, you know,
suppressing them and pouring gasoline on them,
those are both bad,
but like working through them in a healthy way is better.
So yeah.
Did you listen to the Sunday night call last night
about forgiveness?
Yeah, I actually just was able to listen
to the rest of the part I got on late last night.
So, but I listened to that
just before tonight's call here now.
Awesome, that's really great.
And, you know, and right there, David Wright saying that,
you know, his dad was a lawyer,
so they grew up wanting to win the argument to be right.
So a lot of you have grown up with male role models
or you've seen men that they just want to be right.
That's all that matters is that they're right.
It's all about ego, right?
It's all about pride.
And there's women like this too, not just men,
that want to have the last word.
Have you ever known someone
who just wanted to have the last word?
They just couldn't let it go.
Like you would think that it's resolved
and then they just had to say one more thing,
because they just want to have the last word.
We all know people like that.
Some of us may have been people like that.
And you always lose.
Whoever has the last word loses.
I just want to let you know that.
Another thing I discovered about when I was in Greece
and I see other couples who are shopping,
that when they go, I could go through a shopping area,
a plaza for 20 minutes, but when you're married,
it'll take 45 minutes,
because she has to shop a lot, constantly.
And I'm thinking, why do you have to do this?
She goes, and she asked,
does this dress make me look fantastic?
Yes, it does or no, it doesn't.
What's the challenge?
What's my challenge?
If I'm right-
Hunter, the answer is always no.
Always no.
Even if I'm right or-
No, always no.
If it's your woman, the answer is always no to anything.
To anything negative she says about herself,
the answer is always no, babe, you're beautiful.
Yeah, constantly, I'm just like, hey.
Can I say, it'll look a little, it's fine,
but it'll look a little better if you did this.
No. No.
That doesn't work.
Let her girlfriends tell her that.
That's right.
Okay, so you guys,
you don't want to be in what we call the drift,
which is, you know, Louis,
we've all been part of a training program
that's taught us that if we want to be right,
we're already wrong.
We want to look good, we already look bad.
And if we want to be in control,
we're already not in control.
And so it's important that you guys remember that.
I want you to give the guys group
the self-defense mechanisms worksheet
and have them find out which ones they're operating in.
So we're going to give you guys a worksheet
that we usually just give in Symbus,
but I really feel like it would be great for you guys.
And it has about 50 self-defense,
I call them self-preservation techniques
that we operate in when we want to be right,
or we want to be heard,
or we're afraid and, you know, we're in conflict.
So think of the fight, flight, fawn, freeze.
So all these 50 types of things.
So like intellectualizing, justifying.
We have any intellectualizers here?
You get into a conflict with someone and you start,
you know, just all up here, nothing here,
no feeling, it's all in the brain.
You're analyzing, you're intellectualizing the problem
with the person in relationship instead of, you know,
coming from your heart center.
Does anyone withdraw?
Does anyone isolate when they get upset about something?
You just kind of withdraw from the conversation.
You get quiet, you walk away.
Some people.
runaway, some people medicate, alcohol, porn.
What are some other medicators?
Sports, work.
Whatever.
That would be, by the way, that would be a form of flight.
Because instead of dealing with the problem,
you're fleeing it through escapism of one of these things.
And so I want you just to go through the worksheet
and just circle all the ones that you've ever operated in
or that you're currently operating in.
And then next Monday, you guys can talk through that
so that you can find out,
hey, what's behind this self-preservation technique?
Because those don't work in relationship.
What works in relationship is if you show up
and you are vulnerable.
The more vulnerable you can learn how to be right now
as a single man, the better you're gonna date,
the better you're gonna mate,
and the better that you're going to be in marriage.
Yeah.
Cool.
That's good.
Aren't you glad that I just came over here
and added my little girl touch?
Yeah, it's all good, babe.
A little feminine touch to you.
Good.
And when, you know, and I beat him up a lot.
He lets me beat him up.
I don't have to go over to the gym.
She just beats me up.
So I just kind of pick her up and like,
press a couple times, like just.
And he always wins the thumb wrestle too,
because he's got weird, strong thumbs.
Sorry.
David, you said we would circle back to my quick share.
Is that okay, or?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, let's hear it.
So I think, oh, sorry, one sec.
Sorry, sorry.
I think for me, like,
so I had a conversation with Phoebe this week, yesterday,
and I just was like asking her out,
like to go for like a level two, like low commitment,
just go for a walk, meet halfway.
And I was shocked by her answer.
She just said that, she couldn't answer yes or no,
but she just said, you know what, David?
Like, you are the exact person that I'm looking for.
You're someone that I really, really care about.
And she said, I just don't know how open I am.
And I don't know, yeah.
She said like, I don't know if I am healthy enough
to be with someone as secure as you,
but she just said,
you are exactly the kind of man I'm looking for.
And my kind answer to her was, I just said, you know what?
Like, I am happy to wait as long as you need an answer.
Like, if it's a no, I'm happy.
If it's a yes, I'm happy.
But you just take all the time you need
and get back to me when you're ready to say yes or no.
Wow.
Have we been out with her before, Phoebe?
Yes, yeah.
So Phoebe and I went out three times
and we talked every single day,
used to text every single day.
And then there was a really bad push and pull.
And then she let me know about the heart work.
And then I didn't talk to her for six months.
And then she wrote me a huge letter saying,
I really care about you.
I've never felt this way about anybody before.
And then there was another big push and pull.
And so we've recently started talking again.
So we've had, this is our third call
we've had in the last two weeks.
So yeah.
Okay, and so Phoebe's the person
that brought you into our community?
Yes.
Okay.
And when you say push and pull,
who was pushing and who was pulling?
Phoebe was both.
Okay, so she's a disordered attacher,
which is what I was gonna say from the very beginning.
Yes.
And I'm a secure attacher.
Right.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So Phoebe isn't really quite sure what she wants.
She wants to be treated well,
but when she's treated well,
then she either A, doesn't find that exciting enough
and causes conflict to make it more exciting,
which is probably the most accurate statement
about what's happening here.
And when I say causes drama,
it doesn't have to be huge drama.
It just has to be, causes some kind of tension
in order to make it more exciting of a chase
or of a, just of a situation.
And, or, you know, she gets afraid
and becomes a little bit of avoidant,
starts finding fault and, you know, picking things apart.
So both of those things can be true.
It can be, you know, not either or, but both and.
I'm sort of familiar with that name, Phoebe,
cause it's a very unusual, like, you know,
a unique name, not unusual.
And so, yeah.
So I would, I would continue to date other people.
Yeah. And I am.
Yeah. And that's what you should do.
I think you should continue to date other people,
but also because you've had push and pull in the past
and now she's back and she seems like she's,
even though what she said was nice,
like, oh, you're everything that I'm.
looking for, I was going to tell you when a woman meets a man and she's marriage minded
and he's everything she's looking for, then it's on like Donkey Kong. Okay. It's not like,
Oh, I have to go think about it. No. So that's more push pull. It's just nicer. Right? It's
just palatable.
Her big thing is she just says, she's like, I don't want to hurt you. She's like, I don't
want to be like one of the people who's hurt you. And she's like, I just feel like I could
hurt you and I don't want to. And, and she's like, honestly, she's like, I don't get it.
I don't get why you're even messing with me, Dave. Cause she's like, literally you could
date anyone you want. Why are you, why are you messing with me? Someone who has not treated
you well. She's like, I haven't left you better than I've found you constantly. And yet you're
still here.
Yeah. Yeah. That's major friend zone language. Yeah. Women say that when they're trying to
let us down easily because they don't have the bandwidth for deeper intimacy. So I'm
not saying she doesn't believe that about you. I'm saying that that is her way of, you
know you know, telling you that she can't have deeper intimacy. And so I definitely
would have weighed on her. I would be thankful that she brought you here to this community
where we have at least 2000 other single women that would like to meet you.
And that's, and that's also, I know, I know you're stronger than this. I know, I know
you can see, see that. And I, and I know that you're processing this correctly, but also
don't let that be a disqualifier for you. Not at all. Because you definitely have talked
and shown and proven, you know, your growth, all the people that are telling you that they're,
they can't believe that you're so different and whatever, all the people that know you
in proximity and so forth, those, that's the truth. So don't let that, just that one comment
be like a disqualifier for you.
Yeah, I don't think it's a disqualifier at all. I, I'm actually, I'm just proud of it.
And you know what, like,
That's good.
Yeah, I just think it's great. And, and you know what, to me, she was just somebody that
dug a hole in the roof and lowered me down to Jesus. You know, the friends that they,
I love it.
Amen. You know what, and even though she was wounded, she still did that. And hey, she
was like, I can't heal you, but I'm going to, Jesus will, but I'm going to introduce
you to a community of people that are going to help you get to where you need to go. Amen.
That's incredible. So, and in that sense, that holds value to me in a human level, not
in a romantic level, but just human to human. That was, that was why that's meaningful,
but yeah.
Yeah, no, that's very meaningful. And you know, I've really been praying, you guys,
I'm going to continue to pray, but my prayer is, and it's always this at the end of the
year that any situationships, anything that's really not worth our time to continue to pursue
because it's not going to bear fruit, whether it's relationships or something else, some
other course that we're on, that's just kind of dead ending that we leave it in 2025. And
we enter into 2026, you know, ready to be fruitful.
That's why the surrender word is really important on this season, because it's the time of year
where we're celebrating, we're bringing the year to a close, but it's a perfect, just,
you know, prophetic, spiritual, supernatural time to just let go and surrender things,
walk away from things that need to be walked away from surrender. Things need to be surrendered,
give up things that need to be given, given up, lay down things that like, if it's a,
if it's a fight, if it's a, if it's a contending for, if it's something that you're still trying
to like, Oh, be angsty about, put that down, put the sword down. It's just time to do that.
So just think about and dwell upon as we're closing this out here on what it is that,
you know, the Lord is life or whatever it is. It's asking you to surrender it, surrender
it, let it go, release it. All of that. It's, it's, it's the season to do that.
And I believe by this time next year, all of you will either be married already, or
you'll be in a very serious engagement, you know, type covenant promised relationship.
There isn't a reason, there isn't a reason why that can't happen. And when I say you
won't, for those of you that are not married, you know, by this time next year, it's because,
you know, you've chosen to let that courtship be longer, but I believe all of you will be
in a serious marriage minded courtship by this time next year. If you just apply these
truths, because remember the ball's really in your court. I know that men think, Oh,
you know, there's no women out there that are interested in me. You are the, you're
the unicorns. Okay. You guys, there's, there's, there's a million women out there, you know,
that want to meet you, even if you don't really believe that about yourself. And so, um, you
definitely have the upper hand here. So let's, let's ask God to play matchmaker to Proverbs
18, 22, you open your eyes, let you see, you know, promising prospect of women around you
in community.
And in your life.
life. And we'll get moving forward on that.
Amen.
Father God, thank you for these gentlemen,
these men that are here tonight.
We just bless them, speak life over them.
We speak healing and breakthrough.
We speak right now, Lord, that this holiday season,
what would be a season of celebration,
would be a season of joy, would be a season of uplift,
would be a season of refreshment,
would also be a season of just undoing,
giving away, letting go and releasing
so that they get into the better
and the other things that you have for them.
In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. Amen.
Love you guys.
God bless you guys.
See you man.
See you next time.
Thank you.
See ya.
Thank you.
See ya.