WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:18.600
Jumping back into maybe one of our last sessions for the month. So we got our team here a full full crew today and today we're just going to be talking through how we do framing for a project. So typically we get all the ideas out to, you know, we may have some notes from a client like, hey, I want this feature.

2
00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:25.240
The first thing we'll typically do is try to go to a frame, try to create a frame for that project. So think of it like we're building a room.

3
00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:34.640
And let's say we're building a house and we want to build the kitchen. So we need to know, is this a small kitchen? Is it a large kitchen? How much time? What's the budget for this kitchen?

4
00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:51.600
Because you can sometimes have, you know, a $5,000 kitchen on a real budget, or you could have a $100,000 kitchen, just depends on what you want to build and what you want to invest in it. So this helps us frame kind of just knows where are we going to start and end this project? What are we not doing in this project?

5
00:00:52.120 --> 00:01:05.400
I've got some other videos on framing, but I thought it'd be great to do it live. And I'm going to talk through a little bit of how we would get to this point of framing and some of the process we took and then I'm going to share with the team and we're going to kind of frame it up as a team. You guys can just watch it.

6
00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:20.760
We do this a lot. But the cool thing is we're going to be working on our own dashboard. We have our own agency dashboard that we use for tracking time and syncing tools like toggle and notion. And we're needing to build a new view for that. So

7
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:27.720
the client in this is kind of us. And so on our team. So we're going to get to all weigh in on what we

8
00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:34.160
are looking for some of the problems and so forth. So let me jump in and share my screen here.

9
00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:46.920
So first off, I'll just say quickly, we have this little dashboard where we have time tracking, we can jump back in the months and like see like where people spend time, who spent which hours, what projects we worked on, did we go over budget?

10
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:53.400
A lot of different links to jump into notion from a particular project if we need to. And then it syncs

11
00:01:53.920 --> 00:02:05.120
data from toggle into our hours. So we know if projects are on schedule or over and things like that. So we typically we still use notion as kind of our primary source of truth. But we have this tool.

12
00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:16.280
And we're using it more and more. And one of the things that we've not been able to do is kind of everybody knowing like what they're specifically working on and then kind of what they're

13
00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:25.360
budget is kind of, you know, what people can expect to make in a month. And then also on the flip side, having clients be able to sign in and kind of see their

14
00:02:25.640 --> 00:02:34.960
view of like, what are they paying for for this month? And what can they expect for the month? So we'll jump into that. The way we attack this was we had a session in

15
00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:43.400
a team meetup here, our first one. And we all sat in this room. We've got a bunch of stickies together, a lot of coffee and

16
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:51.160
we essentially just went through this process where each person would put down one idea on one sticky. Maybe you've done creative sessions like this.

17
00:02:51.920 --> 00:03:01.440
Definitely way more fun to do it in person. But if you can't do it in person, you can do this virtually on something like FigJam. And you can pull these little stickies out and everybody can make

18
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:08.880
their own stickies kind of live on a board. And so it took 10-15 minutes. Everybody just puts their ideas like, oh, I had an idea for this idea for that.

19
00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:18.520
Each idea on a sticky. After the timer's up, then we take the time for each person to take, you know, to go and present their ideas. And so they get to

20
00:03:19.040 --> 00:03:29.360
stand up and as they put their ideas on, we had these little like a big glass window. So we stuck, you know, ideas on that. And we started to group the ideas. So

21
00:03:30.160 --> 00:03:44.440
Macy has taken the time to take all of these stickies and turn them into digital stickies. And so now we can start to kind of look through all these things. We had some stuff we thought would be nice for the client to have in our dashboard, some things that we needed on the back end for admin.

22
00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:55.800
You know, tracking team rates and such like stuff like that. And then having things for the team. So there's a lot of things that the team asked, like things were like status page, having

23
00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:00.160
you know, different interventions to toggle, see how we could like,

24
00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:09.600
I don't know, some of them are just general things like having a hill chart style graph from Basecamp, maybe somehow in the project. These are just little ideas. So each one of these

25
00:04:10.040 --> 00:04:20.680
could be turned into its own product, but it's just a way to kind of see what's all top of mind. And I would say that one of the things generally, we won't go through all this today, but one of the things that came out was just someone

26
00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:39.320
just for team members being able to see specifically their own view. And so that's what we're going to try to tackle today. And I'm going to flip over to this view, and then I'll do this. And hopefully if you guys want to be on, you can turn yourself on or turn yourself off.

27
00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:46.680
But you guys are all welcome to jump into this chat. So the way that we do this, it's all on one massive board, first of all.

28
00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:58.680
You'll see, I just, I'm just dropping things in here, stickies. We're going to go over to the framing section over here. And it's just really nice because you can keep it all on one board and quickly glance back at things. So we use this a lot.

29
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.000
And we'll kind of outline a few different things.

30
00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.720
So we'll do this as a team, and I'm

31
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:05.080
going to get out of teaching mode,

32
00:05:05.080 --> 00:05:07.440
and we're going to get into work mode here.

33
00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:10.120
We put little boxes, and we'll write little things in here,

34
00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:12.760
and then we'll have something here called not doing.

35
00:05:12.760 --> 00:05:16.320
And then we may talk about, typically, the appetite

36
00:05:16.320 --> 00:05:20.120
is also here, just how long do we want to spend on it.

37
00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:20.720
So here we go.

38
00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:26.200
So with that context, I'll just open it up for the team.

39
00:05:26.640 --> 00:05:31.160
The general thing would be some sort of with the dashboard

40
00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.440
or with where you guys are going.

41
00:05:34.440 --> 00:05:37.240
I know Macy may have a different view from an admin standpoint.

42
00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.200
I have some thoughts.

43
00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:45.720
And then maybe switch it like this, or can we do that?

44
00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.320
Yeah, OK, we'll try this.

45
00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:50.920
Sorry, it's the first time we're trying it with everybody on.

46
00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:55.480
So we could talk about problems.

47
00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:56.680
Sorry, it's not a solution.

48
00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:57.280
It's outcomes.

49
00:05:57.280 --> 00:05:58.640
See, nobody caught that.

50
00:05:58.640 --> 00:06:00.200
I wrote solution by habits.

51
00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:01.840
We call that outcomes, like what do we

52
00:06:01.840 --> 00:06:03.880
want to have by the end of this.

53
00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:05.000
So let's just jump in.

54
00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.120
We'll start throwing some down in here.

55
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:12.200
But if you guys are thinking about knowing your budget,

56
00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:14.720
knowing what work you're assigned to,

57
00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:16.800
can I just talk through some problems first on that?

58
00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:32.240
I would say shared visibility between team members

59
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:38.560
and administrators on the future projects

60
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.840
that we'll be working on.

61
00:06:40.840 --> 00:06:42.240
OK.

62
00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.680
Because I may talk to a client and get something.

63
00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:46.200
This is something that we've run into.

64
00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:47.240
Like, I talk to a client.

65
00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.120
Yeah, this is like this week's stuff.

66
00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:52.760
So that's why I figured it would be top of mind.

67
00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.920
So we'll say for team member and admin.

68
00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:57.600
OK, so there's not a single view.

69
00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:01.160
And I'll say single point of truth,

70
00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.360
because we do use Notion.

71
00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:05.160
And so we have a bunch of views where

72
00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.960
I can see maybe from one standpoint what's

73
00:07:07.960 --> 00:07:09.800
going on with the client.

74
00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.840
But you may be looking at a different view.

75
00:07:12.840 --> 00:07:17.200
And what happens is we could also say another problem

76
00:07:17.200 --> 00:07:25.680
generally is that the project, a lot of times,

77
00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:28.520
clients will buy four weeks for the month.

78
00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:29.840
And they won't necessarily decide

79
00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:32.040
what they want to use those four weeks for until we're

80
00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:38.200
like kind of in a few weeks into the month.

81
00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:42.920
So we could even say like project, even priorities

82
00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:47.680
sometimes like shift during an active month

83
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.280
after weeks have been purchased.

84
00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:53.000
OK, so the other thing I'm not doing here

85
00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.280
is being too concise.

86
00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:58.080
I'm just being a little bit wordy for the sake of getting

87
00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.240
it out.

88
00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.320
We can come back and clean this up in a minute.

89
00:08:01.320 --> 00:08:06.480
The other thing we can think about is on the outcome here.

90
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:14.080
We do need like an easy way to say almost like reset

91
00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:21.560
the priority for the month with like say team, admin,

92
00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.200
and client visibility or something like that.

93
00:08:24.200 --> 00:08:26.560
So we could change this.

94
00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.880
A lot of times as well, we do this literally

95
00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:30.800
in a FigJam board.

96
00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.559
And then we may go to a client.

97
00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:36.760
And I'll pick someone here.

98
00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:40.039
We'll pick a client that we got a few things going on with.

99
00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:41.679
We have 10 of these columns that we'll

100
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.360
use to say like hey, for December,

101
00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.200
we're working on these three projects.

102
00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.040
You can see there's a one week, a four week, a one week.

103
00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:51.240
But then like something, this may move to January,

104
00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:51.800
for example.

105
00:08:51.800 --> 00:08:55.000
But no one gets an alert.

106
00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.840
We may have a conversation with the client.

107
00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.080
So I just want to make sure that it's really easy to track

108
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.200
when something syncs.

109
00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.040
And some of the cool things as well with this dashboard

110
00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:07.960
is that all the projects in Notion

111
00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.160
are already synced to our database.

112
00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:12.320
All the timesheets are synced.

113
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:14.440
The timesheets and the toggle projects

114
00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:16.960
are already linked to the Notion projects.

115
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.360
So we have everything we need, all the ingredients

116
00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:23.240
to kind of make up whatever view we want.

117
00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:29.920
And I think maybe there's like some sort of single dashboard

118
00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:35.200
view for a team member to see past, like present,

119
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:41.240
and upcoming months or something.

120
00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:42.760
OK, I'll stop talking.

121
00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:43.520
Anything else from?

122
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.680
What are some issues maybe, Macy, you have as well?

123
00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:53.840
Because you're coming from a different point of view

124
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:54.480
from more admin.

125
00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:01.480
OK.

126
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.000
Oh, are you muted, or is that me?

127
00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:08.000
No, it's muted, I think.

128
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.000
Am I muted? Can you hear me?

129
00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.000
There you go, now you're good.

130
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.000
Okay, I think having some sort of notification in some sort would be nice.

131
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:22.000
Whenever something gets, like, yesterday with you and Ira working and moving around projects,

132
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.000
like, this got done, this got changed, the client wanted this done.

133
00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:31.000
Having some sort of, like, I don't know if it's an admin-automated notification,

134
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.000
where only admins get notified whenever things move around,

135
00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:41.000
because, or else I have no idea, unless I'm going in and searching one by one within the projects.

136
00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:49.000
Yeah, I'd say notifications, but also maybe, like, a log of it,

137
00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:55.000
so we can see, like, if we clicked into a project, we could say that, like, the project got started on this date,

138
00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:58.000
then on this date, you know, it moved from December to January,

139
00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.000
on this date it changed from two weeks to three weeks,

140
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.000
on this date, you know, like, a log, I think would be helpful.

141
00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:04.000
Yeah.

142
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:10.000
Maybe, like, obviously we're all developers, so, like, a change log would be awesome,

143
00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.000
when changes are to a project.

144
00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.000
Okay.

145
00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.000
Yvette, you think it's, like, I'll just say notification.

146
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.000
And I don't know if it's, like, it's not a notification I have to subscribe to.

147
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:27.000
It's, like, if I'm an admin position, I automatically get notified for all of those things,

148
00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.000
because I think I could, I mean, like, let's say in Notion,

149
00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:35.000
I could choose to comment on something and get every notification for everything,

150
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:40.000
but not necessarily if the week changed or if the whatever changed.

151
00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:46.000
So I feel like getting notified on all of those things rather than just, like, a comment was left.

152
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.000
Yeah.

153
00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:48.000
That's good.

154
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.000
We do obviously get notifications in our inbox here in Notion, but these things can get lost.

155
00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:01.000
And if Ira changes it hypothetically and doesn't leave a comment, this never happens,

156
00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:04.000
but then, you know, we would have to go and look and see.

157
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.000
I think there is a log, but, again, some of the views in Notion are not very clear.

158
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:12.000
I think if you went into a project, there may be, like, a history.

159
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:19.000
I'm not going to try to get into it now, but I think there is a history technically in Notion.

160
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:24.000
But, yeah, you could go back and look at the page history, I think, but that's not ideal.

161
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.000
Also, people can close comments, and then they can disappear.

162
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:35.000
So I don't think that's – it's probably good up to a point, but we maybe have outgrown some of that.

163
00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.000
And also, key decisions need to be made because typically these aren't just –

164
00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:44.000
like, one of our team members are not sitting by themselves typically just moving things around.

165
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:50.000
It's normally like we're actually on a call with the client or we're getting, you know, live decisions from them.

166
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:57.000
So we just want to capture that in some way because we also work very autonomously.

167
00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:01.000
So, like, if Ira wants to meet with the client and they're having a decision,

168
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.000
like, I don't need, like, me and Macy and other people to be in on that call.

169
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.000
So we want to have a little bit of autonomy where they – Ira can just make that change.

170
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:13.000
Like, if the client agrees and Ira agrees to something, like, it doesn't really matter what everybody else –

171
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.000
you know, we may have an opinion, but, like, they're in the moment, they're close to the work.

172
00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:20.000
Let them decide in the moment kind of what to do.

173
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:25.000
We just want to make sure we log it and track it for billing and that –

174
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.000
so we don't get to the end of the month and there's confusion.

175
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:29.000
So that's good.

176
00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:33.000
Maybe record that output notification here.

177
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.000
So Lucian just jumped on.

178
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.000
We're just – we're framing up some of the Novo dashboard stuff we talked about,

179
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:46.000
if you have any other problem statements or things you may have.

180
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.000
Think of, like, the last 30 days.

181
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.000
Like, we probably have all hit some confusion.

182
00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:09.000
I would say there is, like – it's not clear, like, how much –

183
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:14.000
what I'm getting paid and when.

184
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:20.000
I would say, like, it's not super clear that, like, hey, this project got approved here

185
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:26.000
and it's going to get paid on this date or even just a good log of numbers.

186
00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.000
Because one thing that's also confusing is everybody can see Notion,

187
00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.000
so we don't have dollar signs in Notion.

188
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.000
It's kind of one of our rules.

189
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.000
Because clients are looking at it, team members, admins looking at it.

190
00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.000
It gets kind of a little bit messy.

191
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:44.000
So this may be something we could do in a dashboard where, like, if Lucian signed in,

192
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:49.000
we know the user is Lucian, so he can see all of his own stuff

193
00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:56.000
without having to, like, share with other team members or admins or whatever.

194
00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.000
What are some other friction points you guys have right now?

195
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:14.600
I think connected with the project priority changes and also with what Macy mentioned

196
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:20.700
about having a changelog, I think it would be interesting if this changelog would also

197
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:29.660
encompass not only product changes or new releases, but also a decision changelog.

198
00:15:29.660 --> 00:15:37.800
We are specifically not prioritizing this, or we are prioritizing this today, or we decided

199
00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:45.960
that this is not important, because sometimes these decisions get lost and it's a bit difficult

200
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.800
to reference back and say, why is this this way?

201
00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:59.640
And not on the code standpoint, but from the decision that was made regarding the project

202
00:15:59.640 --> 00:16:11.520
itself, I think especially for long-running projects of over six months, this starts to

203
00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:17.560
be really useful, because you can point back in time and say, hey, this is why we decided

204
00:16:17.560 --> 00:16:26.720
this, and this may or may not be a good decision now that we have more information about it.

205
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:32.480
And I think this would be interesting for us to also improve our decision making and

206
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:39.920
having this distract, because we kind of have this on the project on Ocean, but we have

207
00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:49.280
to, for instance, if we have a big product that has six projects and this decision is

208
00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:57.520
logged on them, you have to go in each project and see what was the decision about.

209
00:16:57.520 --> 00:17:04.640
But if you have just one big decision log for that customer specifically, like seeing

210
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:10.319
it as a customer and not as a project, I think that would be very interesting.

211
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:15.720
That's cool, because you're saying, if we have this system, we technically could create

212
00:17:16.520 --> 00:17:20.359
not just, because I added this word project here, because it wasn't super clear, but record

213
00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:24.319
project change log, but what you're talking about is almost like zooming out and saying,

214
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:29.600
like, what's all of the projects going on with this client for November, you know?

215
00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:36.560
Exactly, like the monster map we have with all the projects, but like from a decision

216
00:17:36.560 --> 00:17:40.560
standpoint of why we decided to prioritize that when we did.

217
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:53.520
What do you guys think of that?

218
00:17:53.520 --> 00:17:56.160
Anything else, thoughts on this client change log?

219
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.360
Yes, no?

220
00:17:58.360 --> 00:18:01.480
Sounds like there's almost like two categories of decisions.

221
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:06.840
There's like architecture decision, which there's like good standards that exist, like

222
00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:14.480
ADRs, architecture decision records, and there's like project roadmap, like, okay, we thought

223
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:20.880
we needed a feature, but actually we don't, like we got more clarity, so a different decision

224
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.120
of like client side, like project side.

225
00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:29.600
Okay, so this would be a good, we could keep this very much, like, that's good to define

226
00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:38.040
what we said the word changes, which is super vague, so it's, I think that it's almost decisions

227
00:18:38.040 --> 00:18:43.760
made, like you found this thing, this technical limitation or whatever, we're in the middle

228
00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:50.400
of a project, we thought we could include this idea to, let's say, I'm trying to think

229
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.680
of a good example, like I was working on a project now where we need a new user role,

230
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:00.240
so we have one of the optional items for this project is, are we going to add this new user

231
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.520
role or just kind of make it work with existing conditionals and logic?

232
00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:08.800
So it could be something where we decide, we have a, we look at it and we're like, that's

233
00:19:08.800 --> 00:19:12.080
actually going to be a lot more work, we can't fit it into one week, we have a conversation

234
00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:16.240
with the client and we explain it and he's like, no problem, we don't need the new user

235
00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.240
role.

236
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:22.200
So like something like that, where we can kind of track that, it's really decisions,

237
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.880
I don't need to know like meeting notes of this person said this and that one said that,

238
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.520
that's kind of useless, it's just like, what's the sort of the outcome of a meeting was,

239
00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:35.960
they're okay with us changing the due date from this date to this, they're okay with

240
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:41.440
us even, sometimes this will happen as well, like we'll have a two week project and another

241
00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:45.520
one week project and then they'll cancel the one week project and they'll move the budget

242
00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:49.360
to make the first two week project a three week project.

243
00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:53.880
I don't, it's not like, that's not best practices but it happens, like this is like what happens,

244
00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.920
they kind of figure out that actually this is so important, we're going to increase the

245
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.760
appetite once we get into it.

246
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.880
So those may be those types of changes.

247
00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:04.640
But I think maybe what we could shape out of or frame out

248
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.400
of this would be the technical.

249
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.520
You say it was ADR, did you call that?

250
00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:09.600
AR?

251
00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:12.360
Yes, ADR, Architecture Design Records.

252
00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:13.400
Yeah, records, yeah.

253
00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:14.440
Which is very good.

254
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:15.400
Totally agreed.

255
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:16.920
I want to bring another point, which

256
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.480
is because we have monster map, like a sequence

257
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.680
of smaller project that have a big thing.

258
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.920
And so far, we've been using projects

259
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.640
as a kind of stand-in for that.

260
00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:31.720
Sometimes there's like higher level decisions

261
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:32.640
that go into that.

262
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.520
Do we need to even consider that for this framing shaping

263
00:20:36.520 --> 00:20:37.240
session?

264
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.760
Or we kind of keep them out of scope?

265
00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:42.560
You're saying like, tell me how are you connecting that?

266
00:20:42.560 --> 00:20:45.040
So we have the monster map, which we call like a task grid.

267
00:20:45.040 --> 00:20:46.520
It's not called monster map anymore.

268
00:20:46.520 --> 00:20:48.960
Oh, yeah, monster project, sorry.

269
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:49.880
Oh, yeah, yeah.

270
00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:51.560
So that's a good example.

271
00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:55.040
Let me see if I can pull one up while we're talking.

272
00:20:55.040 --> 00:20:57.160
But yes.

273
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.600
So kind of like, I would just call that client level.

274
00:21:00.600 --> 00:21:04.560
Those are kind of like zooming out from, OK, here's

275
00:21:04.560 --> 00:21:05.520
the client.

276
00:21:05.520 --> 00:21:10.560
It's this view, actually, where there's like almost months.

277
00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:12.120
We have a bunch of little projects

278
00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:16.280
that are all making up one big project, potentially.

279
00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:18.800
I think for now, maybe just organizing by month

280
00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:21.840
is the easiest, because it's.

281
00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:25.440
But I also wanted to potentially in 2026

282
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.840
challenge us that we may not have to do things by a month.

283
00:21:28.840 --> 00:21:31.200
And it actually sounds more chaotic.

284
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.840
But if we had a good system, I think it's actually possible.

285
00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:39.000
Where if a project came in on the 12th,

286
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.480
it gets approved, paid for, you work on it for two weeks,

287
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.440
it's done, and that person gets paid on the end of the project,

288
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.720
and then we're done, and we move on to the next project.

289
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.080
It doesn't have to wait, because it doesn't quite always

290
00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:53.840
fit inside of a calendar.

291
00:21:53.840 --> 00:21:56.040
It could be a little bit more loose.

292
00:21:56.040 --> 00:21:57.320
I'll just throw that out there.

293
00:21:57.320 --> 00:21:58.440
We don't have to do that.

294
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:02.400
But potentially, if we're going to keep it in a calendar

295
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.520
view, like by month, that's probably fine for now.

296
00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:10.480
But I want to see if I can pull up the tribe one real quick,

297
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.000
because that's a good example.

298
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.520
And I would just say, if we're not clear about it,

299
00:22:16.520 --> 00:22:18.960
I'll just say that we're not doing it for this,

300
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.400
just to keep it simple.

301
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.160
Because what we could end up doing

302
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.880
is like, and let's call that, yeah,

303
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.720
you called it a monster project view.

304
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:35.280
We'll just, for now, keep this loose in FigJam or whatever

305
00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:41.960
notes, because we do have these multi-month projects that

306
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.400
do take up a lot.

307
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:46.680
I'll have to find it.

308
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:50.400
Oh, it's called monster project here.

309
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.360
So this is a lot of different things.

310
00:22:53.360 --> 00:22:55.960
September, we started breaking up different things

311
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.120
we wanted to do.

312
00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:58.120
And this is a two weeks.

313
00:22:58.120 --> 00:22:58.680
That's one week.

314
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.400
And they're all in this big architecture

315
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.960
of getting off of Firebase, for example,

316
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.040
which is not a one week, a one project.

317
00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:07.280
It's a grouping of multiple projects.

318
00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:10.760
So we have different framed docs,

319
00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:11.960
I think, throughout this one.

320
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.680
I don't know if this is the best example.

321
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.560
But yeah, this is a framing issue here.

322
00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:17.960
We started to frame stuff up.

323
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.200
So I don't think we have a good system for this yet.

324
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:25.240
So we probably don't want to lock it in to a software view.

325
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.240
This is probably still good to have it loose.

326
00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:32.680
Cool.

327
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.680
I could also share this with you guys.

328
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:39.280
Sweet.

329
00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:40.480
Anything else that's up?

330
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.840
One, I'll just say, I know Macy, knowing specific,

331
00:23:45.840 --> 00:23:51.760
like knowing which projects are paid from clients

332
00:23:51.760 --> 00:23:58.520
and which team members to get paid for which projects,

333
00:23:58.520 --> 00:24:01.040
this is a bit of a nightmare, especially when

334
00:24:01.040 --> 00:24:02.280
things span two months.

335
00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:04.280
So like something starts at the end of the month,

336
00:24:04.280 --> 00:24:05.120
and it goes into it.

337
00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:06.320
So one week is in November.

338
00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:07.800
Another week gets done in December.

339
00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:10.200
Or do you pay for half the project in the first month

340
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.440
and the second month?

341
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.560
And then I think in one case, we had it split

342
00:24:13.560 --> 00:24:16.400
where Luchin took a week and Janata took a week.

343
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:21.600
That stuff just like, it shouldn't be hard, but it is.

344
00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:22.640
It is hard.

345
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.960
And I think we're always, like this

346
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.520
has been helpful because we've already

347
00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:30.760
got a little bit more clarity here where the gaps are.

348
00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:34.240
But we're always pushing for a little bit more clarity.

349
00:24:34.360 --> 00:24:38.040
So like if a team member joins, we've got a project,

350
00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:39.560
we figured out like, cool, here's

351
00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:40.720
like this two-week project.

352
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.160
You're taking and running with it.

353
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.040
And they should know exactly to the cent

354
00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:47.160
like what they're getting paid and what day they're

355
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.320
going to get paid for that.

356
00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:52.040
So we're always pushing for a little bit more clarity.

357
00:24:52.040 --> 00:24:53.640
And I think that's been helpful, too,

358
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.640
because we've already got a little bit more clarity

359
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.760
here where the gaps are.

360
00:24:57.760 --> 00:25:00.080
But we're always pushing for like if something

361
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.800
It doesn't need to be vague, and that way everybody has clarity up front, and it just

362
00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:02.800
feels a bit vague, there's no excuse for that.

363
00:25:04.800 --> 00:25:11.560
helps get that, where it could be confusion down the road, kind of bring it super clear

364
00:25:11.560 --> 00:25:18.880
today and we can have a conversation about it now when it's not, where we can set expectations

365
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:23.440
ahead of time versus, no one likes having surprises where it's like, oh, I finally finished

366
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:27.200
the thing, and then you realize, oh, it's different than what you thought or the budget

367
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:28.200
or whatever.

368
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:29.440
You guys know what I'm saying.

369
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.280
And same for clients, like, I don't know if you've been in agency world for a while, but

370
00:25:35.040 --> 00:25:38.360
clients and really no one loves surprises at the end of a project.

371
00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:43.880
So this is good. If we could, if we could have the logs would be good, I think.

372
00:25:45.080 --> 00:25:47.040
And I think this is helpful.

373
00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:49.200
I don't know if this is maybe a different problem.

374
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.640
I don't know what you guys think, if this is potentially like the record changing in

375
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.680
the notifications.

376
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:01.600
These almost feel like two problems now, like, kind of what you're working on and

377
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.080
because what you're working on and the payments side is kind of one project.

378
00:26:06.840 --> 00:26:09.600
Then this other thing is knowing like when things change.

379
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.680
I don't know. They're kind of related.

380
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:12.680
I don't know what you guys think.

381
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:29.160
Yeah, I think because I'm not sure, but like when we say notification, like, do you

382
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:36.200
really mean a notification like or it's more or it's more like a list, like it's a

383
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:41.280
view of like showing the changes or it's like a actual notification that would be

384
00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:43.560
like email or push or something like that.

385
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:46.960
Yeah, that would maybe be at the solution level.

386
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.760
That's why I did that deliberately.

387
00:26:49.760 --> 00:26:55.560
Like, the main thing is that it's a little more active, you know, where it would be

388
00:26:55.560 --> 00:27:00.840
great if like Ira and the client want to connect randomly on a Tuesday morning at

389
00:27:00.840 --> 00:27:02.960
some time. They connect, they make a decision.

390
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.360
Macy doesn't know that that meeting took place on like a Thursday morning, random,

391
00:27:07.360 --> 00:27:11.200
you know, so just almost like a more of an active thing.

392
00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:15.640
I didn't go to a solution because we could have said Slack notification.

393
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.600
We could have said email notification, could have said text.

394
00:27:17.600 --> 00:27:18.920
You know, like we got specific.

395
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:23.640
I'm trying to keep it a little bit vague because we may change it depending on the

396
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.760
budget allowed.

397
00:27:26.520 --> 00:27:37.040
So could there be some sort of approval process that like if if Ira and I'm only

398
00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:39.280
using that because we talked yesterday.

399
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:45.080
So like if there was a could there be an approval process where like Ira and client

400
00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:49.480
talked and like they made a decision, but like Bruce and I had no idea and there

401
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:52.160
needs to be some sort of like approved.

402
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:55.240
I viewed this now you can move on or is that too?

403
00:27:55.280 --> 00:27:57.280
I don't know how that actually works.

404
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.720
But one one cool thing I love and I'm sure everybody else does this, but we kind of

405
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.920
use inbox zero.

406
00:28:04.320 --> 00:28:08.920
So like I see this thing, even though I said beautiful and Lucian just gave it like

407
00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:11.080
this emoji, I can just archive that.

408
00:28:11.120 --> 00:28:12.600
And now I've kind of it's off my list.

409
00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:13.800
Just kind of nice.

410
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.600
So I don't make sure I don't miss anything.

411
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:23.080
I don't know if we need to worry about like I don't know at some point it has to

412
00:28:23.080 --> 00:28:26.880
like we have to we have to be looking ourselves like I think a notification is

413
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.840
helpful. But you're saying like if I notified you and then I just didn't look at

414
00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:33.400
the thing, you know.

415
00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:36.000
Yeah. I want to get to the framing of that.

416
00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:41.400
It could be a bit more clarity because it sounds like we're framing this for clarity

417
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.960
for like Macy, you know, what's getting built and for ourself, what's getting built.

418
00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:48.840
And they're like two different types of decisions.

419
00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:52.040
Like one of them is like, oh, we're not going to do a button here.

420
00:28:52.040 --> 00:28:54.160
We'll put it there. That doesn't matter to Macy.

421
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:58.320
But another kind of decisions that the client says, oh, you know what, let's do an

422
00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:00.560
extra week because we want to take that time.

423
00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:04.720
So that one should be like visible to everyone.

424
00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:05.360
It seems like.

425
00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:11.960
And we may get here and say it's record like scope and like timeline changes

426
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.280
potentially or yeah, maybe.

427
00:29:16.760 --> 00:29:19.280
Timeline related project changes, maybe.

428
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:22.000
What do you guys think of that?

429
00:29:22.600 --> 00:29:26.120
Because it's really like if the scope changes, increases or move it to a different

430
00:29:26.120 --> 00:29:27.560
month, like those are kind of big.

431
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:33.400
Yeah, if the scope.

432
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.280
Change or change for project.

433
00:29:42.360 --> 00:29:45.200
I don't know, getting in the weeds here, change.

434
00:29:56.120 --> 00:29:57.520
Yeah.

435
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.800
Okay we can because I think there's like there's sort of the logging of what is

436
00:30:04.800 --> 00:30:08.920
happening and I things where I think it's starting to be two projects because

437
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:14.960
it's there's this which I would say there's some sort of view that helps if

438
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.800
I was to title this whole thing you know in a single sentence it's a new view

439
00:30:18.800 --> 00:30:33.880
that helps team members clients and admin know yeah maybe billing clarity

440
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:46.000
could be yeah maybe that gives team members clients in a like let's say

441
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:54.760
clarity on monthly billing or something like that but I don't know saying the

442
00:30:54.760 --> 00:30:59.800
because I think you kind of brought it as a side that like hey like let's break

443
00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:05.320
away from monthly and like you have a project maybe it starts mid month and

444
00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:11.120
ends like mid month the next month you know and then we can do billing on that

445
00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:17.360
I think maybe it could be relevant to bring that in to this framing because

446
00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:21.640
that that could solve potentially a lot of like issues of like you know maybe

447
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.840
we're doing a project that's like the last two weeks of the month and it kind

448
00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:30.960
of drags on into like the first week of the next month and it's like really

449
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.200
complicated so it might like touch to the root of the confusion and a

450
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:45.440
difficulty for the admin yeah it's at the it's at the project level because

451
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:49.280
right now like I mean and this sort of problem the other thing I saw that Ryan

452
00:31:49.280 --> 00:31:54.720
did was this other little thing just called context right it's not really a

453
00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:02.240
problem it's just what it is like currently like you know everyone you

454
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:15.560
know pays and is paid monthly like so you know not not by the project I mean

455
00:32:15.560 --> 00:32:20.440
it's by the project but not I'll say the project timeline that's not when the

456
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.720
project gets done like when that gets done and in the month you know and then

457
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:27.760
it's the end of that month after the works been completed so it's not

458
00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:55.080
necessarily a problem it's just what it is right now and yeah so that and we do

459
00:32:55.080 --> 00:33:00.000
we do to make us go fast we do want to let it's not so much like the other

460
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.520
little piece here is you may have multi-level clients relations like

461
00:33:03.520 --> 00:33:07.520
Corbett's meeting with someone on their team who can make a comp like a decision

462
00:33:07.520 --> 00:33:11.480
but a lot of times they'll make that call and then the person who's actually

463
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:16.080
writing the check or paying the bills on that is a different person and so we have

464
00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:21.080
to call to communicate back on their side as well that hey I know you paid

465
00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:24.600
for X but actually you're gonna get Y and that's because you're a person on

466
00:33:24.600 --> 00:33:29.720
your team said this at this stage or something like that so it's it's on our

467
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:43.560
side right this week you know yeah because if they change yeah I think

468
00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:48.720
what's also confusing is clients are purchasing weeks in advance that

469
00:33:48.720 --> 00:34:00.720
actually is making it quite complicated and sometimes without like you know

470
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:07.400
projects assigned does that make sense like they're actually just sometimes

471
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.760
they're buying four weeks and we're like I'll put it to this or that and then we

472
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.639
get into it and you're like we change it the moment this is really happening very

473
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:21.000
particularly with one specific client project escrow yeah yeah we could do

474
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:26.960
that could be an escrow thing but I'm wondering if it's like like it's a

475
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.080
little bit more firm like hey when you prove the project we link the approval

476
00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:34.560
and the payment and everything down to that and that locks that project in for

477
00:34:34.560 --> 00:34:39.080
that one like two-week project we do the two weeks and then when it's done it

478
00:34:39.080 --> 00:34:43.080
kind of cleans out and you have single project in we do project project goes

479
00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:47.000
out next project comes in or if there's two people working in parallel like we

480
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.080
have that right now for one client where like Keith's working on one project

481
00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:54.520
Liam's working on another project Lucian's working on another project all

482
00:34:54.520 --> 00:35:01.920
for the same client in the same month but each person only has one project

483
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.700
for that client, if that makes sense.

484
00:35:02.700 --> 00:35:05.700
They're not overlapping multiple projects.

485
00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:09.840
You know, it's like we make a nice, perfect system

486
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.460
where they all line up beautifully month to month,

487
00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:14.940
and this doesn't actually happen this way.

488
00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:20.380
Because also we have projects like this one.

489
00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:23.540
It says November, but this one just got finished now,

490
00:35:23.540 --> 00:35:25.320
you know, mid-December.

491
00:35:26.220 --> 00:35:27.620
This one with the content attachments,

492
00:35:27.620 --> 00:35:29.780
like still, we have some stuff still working on.

493
00:35:29.780 --> 00:35:34.780
Yeah, and again, this is in a, like,

494
00:35:35.100 --> 00:35:38.000
but this is good, because like now we're kind of working

495
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.020
not only past the timeline, I don't really,

496
00:35:40.020 --> 00:35:41.300
I'm not worried about this,

497
00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:42.540
and I'm not picking on you, Keith,

498
00:35:42.540 --> 00:35:47.140
because we're in an unhealthy, unsafe team.

499
00:35:47.140 --> 00:35:48.820
We'd be like, come on, Keith, what's going on?

500
00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:50.780
Why aren't you getting your stuff done?

501
00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:53.660
Actually, it's like, wow, we missed it on the framing.

502
00:35:53.660 --> 00:35:56.700
Like maybe this was, we actually tried to do two projects

503
00:35:56.700 --> 00:35:57.540
in one.

504
00:35:57.540 --> 00:35:58.360
Yeah, it was a good lesson.

505
00:35:58.360 --> 00:35:59.740
Yeah, I mean, this is, and for us too,

506
00:36:00.700 --> 00:36:01.980
this is not on you, we're doing this together.

507
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:04.620
So we put two different projects

508
00:36:04.620 --> 00:36:06.980
that are kind of related, but not really.

509
00:36:06.980 --> 00:36:10.900
At the time they felt related, but they weren't really,

510
00:36:10.900 --> 00:36:13.500
and we put them in this kind of a pretty tight budget.

511
00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:14.700
Two weeks is tight.

512
00:36:14.700 --> 00:36:16.840
One is insanely small.

513
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:18.420
So we need to have more margin here,

514
00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:21.420
because now we're actually about to tap into a third week,

515
00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:26.100
which is not, and again, the budget here is mostly

516
00:36:26.100 --> 00:36:28.140
just to track how much effort it was.

517
00:36:28.140 --> 00:36:30.100
And some of us should be more like,

518
00:36:30.100 --> 00:36:34.120
our estimated effort is accurate or inaccurate.

519
00:36:35.100 --> 00:36:36.460
So this could be like a conversation,

520
00:36:36.460 --> 00:36:38.020
we could figure out how this happened.

521
00:36:38.020 --> 00:36:40.900
But in this case, like this was done in November,

522
00:36:40.900 --> 00:36:43.220
it was paid for on December 1st,

523
00:36:43.220 --> 00:36:45.020
and yet it's still kind of in review.

524
00:36:45.020 --> 00:36:47.120
And this may be totally done, I'm just picking on this,

525
00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:50.460
because it's, it's so close.

526
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.860
Yeah, it wasn't quite as clean as like,

527
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:56.420
oh, and last day of November, it's off and there it goes.

528
00:36:56.420 --> 00:36:57.740
And then like December 1st starts

529
00:36:57.740 --> 00:36:59.340
and we start a new project.

530
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.900
It's never quite that clean.

531
00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:02.900
That never happens.

532
00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:05.480
Yeah.

533
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:09.460
Yeah, it's good to set your target as best as you can.

534
00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:11.220
Things happen, but.

535
00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:14.420
And then another piece of content for the context piece,

536
00:37:14.420 --> 00:37:18.460
like some projects is like, if it goes a bit over,

537
00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:19.740
like in the timeline, it's okay.

538
00:37:19.740 --> 00:37:22.060
Like the client's not gonna be too worried.

539
00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:24.540
Other projects, like there's actually like, I don't know,

540
00:37:24.540 --> 00:37:28.020
like a live challenge happening or something like that.

541
00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:29.100
Some urgency.

542
00:37:30.540 --> 00:37:32.020
Yeah.

543
00:37:32.020 --> 00:37:34.260
Well, and this is somewhat helpful,

544
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:37.760
but we kind of just tend to time box these things to a month.

545
00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:42.340
Let me see if, so like this still has,

546
00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:44.500
and this is where like, you're still, I know,

547
00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.340
I'm picking on this because I saw a PR come through

548
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:48.820
like last night.

549
00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:51.500
So technically this is like somewhere out here,

550
00:37:51.500 --> 00:37:53.220
even if it is finished, it's still,

551
00:37:53.220 --> 00:37:55.620
there was something happened to it, you know,

552
00:37:55.620 --> 00:37:56.460
but that's helpful to know.

553
00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:58.660
Cause I could come to Keith, like Keith,

554
00:37:58.660 --> 00:38:00.140
where are we at with this thing?

555
00:38:00.140 --> 00:38:00.960
And he's like, well,

556
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:03.260
I haven't even finished the first thing, right?

557
00:38:04.540 --> 00:38:07.860
This little visual, if we can get it right.

558
00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:09.900
So like in theory, we've got a four week project

559
00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.460
starting now, which really puts us like somewhere mid,

560
00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:17.020
you know, January, because that's really helpful to know.

561
00:38:17.020 --> 00:38:18.420
And when we're, and again, I'm not,

562
00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:21.980
we're not trying to like, I'm not picking on Keith or us.

563
00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:23.460
It's like, we have to just show the client, like,

564
00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:25.140
Hey, the thing we were trying to build you here

565
00:38:25.140 --> 00:38:28.620
took a little longer, or we ran into some issues,

566
00:38:28.620 --> 00:38:30.340
whatever they are, something happened.

567
00:38:30.340 --> 00:38:31.180
So this got pushed,

568
00:38:31.180 --> 00:38:33.260
cause now we need to reset expectations.

569
00:38:33.260 --> 00:38:36.500
Much better to tell them on the December 16th

570
00:38:36.500 --> 00:38:38.880
that there's coming on the mid January,

571
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:40.580
then like at the last day of December,

572
00:38:40.580 --> 00:38:41.820
like remember how we thought you were getting it

573
00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:42.820
last day of December?

574
00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:43.900
Actually it's another two weeks.

575
00:38:43.900 --> 00:38:46.460
Like that's way worse than just kind of getting it.

576
00:38:46.460 --> 00:38:49.780
On that note, I guess just cause we're talking about it,

577
00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:53.420
in some ways it's actually kind of good and non-blocking

578
00:38:53.420 --> 00:38:57.100
to have a slight overlap like these two had,

579
00:38:57.100 --> 00:38:59.380
because kind of we're at the end of this,

580
00:38:59.380 --> 00:39:02.200
the multi-language tracks, you know, process.

581
00:39:02.200 --> 00:39:04.260
And it's kind of me and Lucien kind of iterating,

582
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.220
just making sure every last little edge case

583
00:39:06.220 --> 00:39:07.420
is taken care of.

584
00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:08.620
And that's kind of back and forth.

585
00:39:08.620 --> 00:39:10.780
I know Lucien's obviously really busy.

586
00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:13.920
So when there's ever time, you know, downtime on that,

587
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:16.420
I can just move right along to, so I've, you know,

588
00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:17.740
I've gotten a significant amount of work done

589
00:39:17.740 --> 00:39:19.180
on the profile page builder as well,

590
00:39:19.180 --> 00:39:23.020
just kind of in between, you know, whatever gaps,

591
00:39:23.020 --> 00:39:25.060
natural gaps arise,

592
00:39:25.060 --> 00:39:26.900
but not that that's the way we should be doing it.

593
00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:28.780
It's just, it kind of works out for me at least.

594
00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:29.780
No, that's great.

595
00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:32.340
That's a good observation because there's kind of like

596
00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:33.180
work you're done with it.

597
00:39:33.180 --> 00:39:34.900
And the other thing is Lucien's getting feedback,

598
00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:37.520
but it also could be client feedback.

599
00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:39.180
You know, they may ask requests to change,

600
00:39:39.180 --> 00:39:40.240
they may find a bug.

601
00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:45.300
So there's kind of like this tail of the project

602
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.460
where like, you can't really be on it full time.

603
00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:50.780
Cause we're waiting,

604
00:39:50.780 --> 00:39:52.220
there's some delays and you waiting for stuff.

605
00:39:52.220 --> 00:39:53.640
So that, that makes sense.

606
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:56.900
But.

607
00:39:56.900 --> 00:39:58.540
Yeah, whereas like the front, the front end of the,

608
00:39:58.540 --> 00:40:00.540
well, not the biggest, not the front end.

609
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.280
is about like the front side of the project is more long kind of hours of not iterating

610
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.480
with someone else right where it's and so it kind of it pairs kind of nicely with the back end of

611
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:17.440
one or back half of one process is kind of a little more stop and start and communication

612
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:24.640
and the front half of another process is a lot more dev heavy and so the two kind of

613
00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:31.200
can work in tandem okay you know maybe it's not always ideal to have projects run over time and

614
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:36.160
before you start the next one but it works out in some way yeah i don't even know how to capture

615
00:40:36.160 --> 00:40:41.600
that but i'll just say like there's sort of like two modes this is just again context not a problem

616
00:40:41.600 --> 00:40:47.600
no need to change it just what it is is that you kind of go and we're either interview you know

617
00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:53.520
internally or with with a client and that part is just kind of you going in doing a couple hours

618
00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:59.680
kicking it back to them them checking stuff signing off on it again so

619
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:08.160
um i think this is good i don't know where we land if we um

620
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:15.360
okay so what do you guys think we have about 15 more minutes i don't know if we're it feels like

621
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.120
we got a couple things and we're and the only problem with this being the first problem problem

622
00:41:19.120 --> 00:41:24.960
and this happens with clients as well is um this is our first project together so we're like kind

623
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:31.040
of want to bring all the problems that we have at the top of mind right now like and all the ideas

624
00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:36.080
at once so it does take a little bit of so we may may just duplicate this to the side i don't know

625
00:41:36.080 --> 00:41:45.200
if uh we were already doing that but um we could this could be one project where this is a view

626
00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:52.080
that does this and if we did that we may pull like this record stuff and the log stuff out

627
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.480
there's a view some way to reset priority maybe there's a way to just

628
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:02.880
make a note i don't know maybe this is not the worst thing we could pull the note

629
00:42:04.160 --> 00:42:09.120
yeah we could pull this out what is a way to reset priority

630
00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:14.160
it's not something yeah that's a good um

631
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:25.360
um it's almost like redistribute um the budget for the bottom i don't know how we do that other

632
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:31.520
than this has happened recently where we clients be like hey pull take push this project out and

633
00:42:31.520 --> 00:42:38.320
pull that week in and um again that made it we also don't want to create an entire software

634
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:43.520
solution for something that's really like a process problem you know we may have a sloppy

635
00:42:43.520 --> 00:42:49.360
process there where we are letting people change it or maybe they shouldn't approve the project

636
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:54.480
for the beginning of the month until it's like allocated or we shouldn't assign allocate the

637
00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:02.480
budget yet um i don't know yeah i was gonna jump into this because you know the like calendar view

638
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.240
with like the i don't know what it's called the flow charts like you have like the bar

639
00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:13.280
goes across a month or whatever uh it's good but we don't see like the um you know the candidate

640
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:19.200
projects like or you know the projects in escrow or whatever that we're considering like looking at

641
00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:25.520
every person like oh you have like a slot like who's available next it feels like it's kind of

642
00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:33.440
underutilized um yeah it's not a fully formed idea but just

643
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:42.560
yeah like visibility in like future uh projects feels like could be could be better

644
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:48.800
yeah you're like we're seeing it by month right now but that's not really it's kind of like

645
00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:54.560
um again this is quickly it may be like um something where it's like

646
00:43:55.520 --> 00:44:04.160
um ideas and you know um now and there's just like you know we've got a bunch of ideas here

647
00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:08.560
of things we could do and this is actually what's like we're working on right now

648
00:44:08.560 --> 00:44:14.880
kind of idea you know just kind of have two lists um i know that um

649
00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:19.040
actually i don't know if you guys have seen the fizzy stuff if you've played with it

650
00:44:20.560 --> 00:44:28.400
but they have this very simple like idea of like moving something to like not now or next

651
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:32.080
or like something they're considering or done like you can kind of make up whatever columns you want

652
00:44:32.080 --> 00:44:38.880
but um it may be because right now what we've got is like november and it's like the official

653
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.120
thing for november december the official you know there's there's actually not a 3d the green

654
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:49.760
was in another dimension here where um you know we kind of have it here like this is

655
00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:57.040
framing so it's not and that we have the like this is paid paid paid paid um this is estimate

656
00:44:57.040 --> 00:44:59.920
like we're still kind of thinking about this i think this is

657
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.940
Super simple thing would be just to like have the view that you have like in your

658
00:45:04.940 --> 00:45:09.240
dashboard, like each team member, you know, has like, I don't know, working on

659
00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:13.120
this in December, working on blah, blah, blah, like with the specific dates, not

660
00:45:13.120 --> 00:45:15.680
just like, like a column per month.

661
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:20.400
Um, but having that, like just filtered, like by clients.

662
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.640
So they're seeing like, okay, you have like three team members working on.

663
00:45:24.120 --> 00:45:29.160
Something this guy's working from mid January to like, end of January, like

664
00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:35.320
like this, but like for the client and that wouldn't really require us to like

665
00:45:35.720 --> 00:45:40.080
do anything in the, in over dashboard, it can just be like a new, uh, view and

666
00:45:40.080 --> 00:45:40.600
notion.

667
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:48.600
So kind of like, you're saying like turn this, uh, uh, you do subgroup Bruce, so

668
00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:51.280
you could buy a team member or yeah.

669
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.140
So you have it as a board and then you can group it by, if you want to say, Hey,

670
00:45:55.140 --> 00:45:56.100
what's Lucian working on?

671
00:45:56.100 --> 00:45:56.440
Right.

672
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:01.240
Well, here are the ones that are, you know, you do that or the status property.

673
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:01.920
Yeah.

674
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.920
And you were saying group by status or by the billing status.

675
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.880
Uh, if you go to subgroup, so, uh, you don't have it in this view.

676
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:18.640
I was saying that if we group it by, um, billing status though, that's probably

677
00:46:18.640 --> 00:46:21.200
the most useful billing.

678
00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:27.200
So, um, Oh, what's the month though?

679
00:46:27.200 --> 00:46:28.240
What data are we using?

680
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:35.560
So building it out drafts just to, um, invoice date.

681
00:46:36.560 --> 00:46:38.920
Oh no, it's going to be the actual work dates.

682
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:39.160
Yep.

683
00:46:39.160 --> 00:46:39.360
Yep.

684
00:46:39.680 --> 00:46:40.280
I'm with you.

685
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:44.680
Um, what is this?

686
00:46:48.600 --> 00:46:48.800
Okay.

687
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:50.800
So you're saying something like this, where it's like, Hey, there's a bunch

688
00:46:51.040 --> 00:46:57.280
of stuff in the estimate like this, but then we also have paid or is paid.

689
00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:01.440
It's a little, little goofy how it's set up here.

690
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:03.160
So this is paid.

691
00:47:04.120 --> 00:47:08.200
I think the problem is I need to hide all of the let's go.

692
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:10.320
Oh, we don't have, anyway, I'll play with it.

693
00:47:10.600 --> 00:47:14.760
Um, or it's like filter out those that are older than six months, you know,

694
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.360
cause you still want to want to see like what happened.

695
00:47:17.640 --> 00:47:17.920
Yes.

696
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:19.600
You need a filter for sure.

697
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:22.200
Filter like dates.

698
00:47:23.240 --> 00:47:31.600
You could actually filter this one by the dates, like, um, the past, like year.

699
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:36.560
I don't know, but yes, I see what, basically we could do that.

700
00:47:36.680 --> 00:47:39.960
And this is a good point because one of the, we just said like, these

701
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:41.400
are the problems and then outcome.

702
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.440
Like no one said we had to code a brand new view in a dashboard.

703
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.680
Like maybe the dashboard view is in notion.

704
00:47:48.160 --> 00:47:50.360
So we want to have a lot of flexibility here.

705
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:55.120
To go fix this thing without necessarily having to, you

706
00:47:55.120 --> 00:47:56.760
know, do as little code as possible.

707
00:47:58.520 --> 00:47:59.800
Yeah, that, that could be good.

708
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:01.640
I know we're coming up on the time.

709
00:48:01.640 --> 00:48:08.440
So what might be good is, um, keep the frame of like, Hey, there's something

710
00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:13.400
here if we went ahead and like did the breadboard next, uh, I won't do it right

711
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:20.360
now, but, um, what we would do is basically map out the current view of like, how does

712
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:24.240
this currently get done, which would be excruciatingly pay painful.

713
00:48:24.680 --> 00:48:28.200
Um, because it's going to be like, um, a meeting takes place.

714
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.600
This person makes a decision.

715
00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:33.000
This person tells, adds a comment to notion and changes it in notion.

716
00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:37.800
Notion, you know, maybe notifies Macy and we kind of see everything.

717
00:48:38.240 --> 00:48:41.560
Cause the other thing that's also at our disposal is the, um,

718
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:44.720
automations here in, in, uh, notion.

719
00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:49.720
So maybe like, Hey, if, if a week gets moved or budget changes, it

720
00:48:49.720 --> 00:48:52.520
should notify Macy, for example.

721
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:55.320
Like every time someone changes from two weeks to three weeks, like that

722
00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:00.320
should send an alert, um, some kind of, and ideally like it could even

723
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:04.360
send an alert inside our shared Slack channel with the client to like,

724
00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:08.480
they see it, we see it, you know, kind of something simple.

725
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:11.120
So yeah, we can play with this.

726
00:49:11.160 --> 00:49:11.440
Lucian.

727
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:13.080
I like the idea of it just being in notion.

728
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:13.960
Definitely good.

729
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:20.520
Um, I think to get clarity on this would be great if we, um, just go through and

730
00:49:20.520 --> 00:49:25.440
like the next piece would be to kind of map out the current workflow of this

731
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.240
using kind of the breadboard, and then we can look at what an easier way might be.

732
00:49:29.720 --> 00:49:34.280
Um, because just in looking at how bad the current one is, we may see some

733
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:38.560
quick connections, like, Oh, if we just link, uh, someone changing the budget

734
00:49:38.600 --> 00:49:43.120
to that notification, it kind of solves this outcome we were shooting for here

735
00:49:43.160 --> 00:49:47.520
with, with notifications, for example, or, um, I don't know.

736
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:54.120
And I feel like the kind of framing on the problem side, it's still, it feels

737
00:49:54.120 --> 00:49:59.960
like not crispy enough because we have filling, but

738
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.320
got it started. And this is it. I was hoping we would land on like, cool, let's go like, let's go

739
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:09.280
breadboard it next. But there's definitely a lot more to talk about. And I think probably what

740
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:15.040
we've done is we've picked too many problems to solve. Like this is the single point of truth is

741
00:50:15.040 --> 00:50:19.520
important. Priority shifting. And I think this also is more of like a context thing.

742
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:27.360
A problem of not clear when, so this is more of the billing sort of billing problem here.

743
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:33.760
It's actually all billing related, not knowing which projects are paid for. Okay. So this is

744
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:39.280
kind of the same, these two are sort of grouped. It's like billing and scheduling or like assigning,

745
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:45.600
you know, but I don't know. Is that really a problem that we have a lot that's like,

746
00:50:45.600 --> 00:50:51.520
oh, we assigned someone, but they were actually already busy on something. Does that happen?

747
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:59.760
No, but we would probably use something like the other view here, you know, to like

748
00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:04.800
see this, but it's not also, I mean, I can kind of see what you're working on.

749
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:09.600
The problem is that if something doesn't, for some reason, get assigned to you here,

750
00:51:09.600 --> 00:51:16.240
this data could be bad. It's not quite as like digital where like person's paid for it. It's

751
00:51:16.240 --> 00:51:26.320
showing up in here. You know, we've got some stuff that's in review. I guess, I don't know.

752
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.480
Another thing that happens that's kind of related, but I don't think

753
00:51:33.120 --> 00:51:39.920
kind of has been explicitly stated is keeping track of our own capacity and making sure that

754
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:47.360
we're able to hit our capacity. Yeah. It'd be good if like, that's a great question. So like,

755
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:57.920
so like just, I'll just say clarity between team, like an admin on,

756
00:52:01.120 --> 00:52:06.720
you know, if Iris says like, cool, December, you know, I want to take, I want to do five weeks

757
00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:10.960
instead of four, or if someone's traveling and they only want to do two weeks in a month, like

758
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:16.960
that's helpful to know. It's kind of related here, but to me, I would see it as like, if we had,

759
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:22.720
you know, some view where it was like each of the months written out and I could see like,

760
00:52:22.720 --> 00:52:26.880
Ira wants three, you know, and he's got, you know, we've got like his little three

761
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:32.800
blocks here. Right. And I can see that he's like assigned two weeks right now. It can be a simple

762
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:39.440
view like that. And here's this project, here's this project, and here's this project. And maybe

763
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:46.800
it's, you know, I don't know, something like this where we could see specific things in this month.

764
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:55.520
We want five weeks. There's like a little something here, you know, and then not only that we can see

765
00:52:55.520 --> 00:53:00.560
like, Hey, it's going to be like this dollar amount here, this dollar amount here. And this

766
00:53:00.560 --> 00:53:08.160
is sort of, if this is sort of active and then we have sort of a like past, you know, going back

767
00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:13.040
this way, you can see like, Oh, in, you know, this month we made this much money in this month. I made

768
00:53:13.040 --> 00:53:17.760
this much money. And then maybe a total as well for the year, that could be cool. Like, what do

769
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:24.560
you want to make for the year? This is sort of just, you know, kind of what I was had in mind

770
00:53:24.560 --> 00:53:30.880
with something like a view like this. And then things could be moved because this is a real

771
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:38.880
example because, so one context thing we're getting very clear is that the client billing

772
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:48.640
and the like team member, we'll just say money is very closely linked, right? Like they make,

773
00:53:48.640 --> 00:53:54.080
client says, Oh, let's push this project from January to December to January. Well, now like

774
00:53:54.080 --> 00:53:59.280
we had four weeks assigned to IRA, but now we just kicked one of them a month in it for it.

775
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:05.760
So now he actually has, it actually like opened up a week. And so now he's actually like getting

776
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:13.040
affected by that negatively for whatever reason, like, this is just stuff that happens. So

777
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:18.880
it'd be good if, if, if I see that, or Macy sees that, and we're trying to like,

778
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:27.360
keep you guys, you know, full and not, not over committed, but also not under committed.

779
00:54:29.120 --> 00:54:34.160
So good. Well, it seems a little, a little more clear, but it probably needs another session.

780
00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:40.400
I think one thing, like if I had to give it a score right now, we're probably 40, 50% on the

781
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:46.480
framing, you know, clarity, it's, it's not there yet. We probably got the, you know, this, another

782
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:50.640
session like this would maybe get it to the finish line, but part of it is also just picking

783
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:56.960
one single point. And I think the, the billing piece would be good. And now, you know, at this

784
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.760
point, it's probably clear enough to go do the breadboarding.

785
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:06.080
and actually breadboard out how does a client currently tell us their budget for the month.

786
00:55:06.080 --> 00:55:09.440
And it's going to be messy, but it's like, oh, they emailed us this, then they had this

787
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:16.000
conversation over here. We tried to add an appetite here. Because what's missing in this view

788
00:55:17.040 --> 00:55:21.200
is there's no committed amounts. We don't know that they committed.

789
00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:28.640
The client's actually wanting to spend in the same exact way I drew this for here.

790
00:55:28.640 --> 00:55:32.560
The clients are like, hey, I want to spend three weeks. Hey, I want to spend four weeks.

791
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:37.680
They actually have this, but in reverse. It's actually the same view.

792
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:45.920
And so if we say the appetite, and not only that, what's extremely confusing for clients

793
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:50.320
is the week's thing. I mean, I know it makes sense to us and we kind of live with it. But

794
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.760
they're like, what does a week cost again? The amount of people who have been working

795
00:55:53.760 --> 00:56:01.600
on this for four or five years and don't know what a week, it's never changed. But just like,

796
00:56:03.680 --> 00:56:11.600
I'll just say client expectations on cost and week's budget or something.

797
00:56:11.600 --> 00:56:16.160
Maybe it could just be our language. Instead of saying appetite is one week,

798
00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:24.160
is appetite is $1 sign or $2 sign. $4 sign is like four weeks, what we used to call four weeks.

799
00:56:25.520 --> 00:56:32.400
Yeah, that's true. But if they sat here and they could see the dollar sign up here with the three

800
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.200
weeks, you put a dollar sign next to something, people get real clear real fast.

801
00:56:37.200 --> 00:56:40.800
I actually really, really like the dollar signs because the software engineering,

802
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.040
there's just kind of this perverse incentive of if it takes me longer, I get a little bit more money.

803
00:56:45.040 --> 00:56:50.800
But if I'm really sharp and knock it out, but framing it as dollar signs, I feel like that

804
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.960
gives me the psychological freedom of, okay, I'm going to knock out this $4 sign thing in two weeks

805
00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:59.680
and without the client. I mean, because it's one thing we can't do in Notion,

806
00:56:59.680 --> 00:57:06.320
but we can do here is we just put the actual dollar. Is that $5,000? Is it 2,000? Because

807
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:12.560
to me, that's super motivating. We don't want to be too abstract because we can,

808
00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:17.200
but yeah, if you see a four week thing and you see like, cool, I'm going to have an awesome December,

809
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.320
but I got to do five weeks of stuff. It's a little more motivating if there's like,

810
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:28.880
hey, I'm going to make X dollars with a real dollar sign there. And I think the clients

811
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:32.560
as well, it just makes it real clear because we kind of kept it vague because in Notion,

812
00:57:32.560 --> 00:57:40.240
we're moving it along. And a lot of times, even their team, they're kind of spending in weeks,

813
00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:44.000
but maybe they don't know the dollar amounts. Like we have some clients where they're making

814
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:50.320
budget decisions, but not dollar budget decisions. I don't know, but this could be useful.

815
00:57:54.080 --> 00:57:59.360
So, okay, sweet. The other thing we're trying to do is like when clients do come to us and they

816
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:05.680
pick out like multi-month plan, like I want to spend this over the next six months, like then,

817
00:58:05.680 --> 00:58:09.280
of course, we help them with some discounts and a few other things. So those numbers could change

818
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:15.280
potentially, but it incentivizes more consistent, hey, let's work together for six months. So now,

819
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:19.840
like each of the team members on there have a plan for the next six months. They're not

820
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:26.240
wondering if we're going to have work the next month. So, okay. I think it's getting clear.

821
00:58:26.240 --> 00:58:29.840
Maybe this is it. Maybe it is the team members, clients, and admin clarity on

822
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:33.040
billing and schedule. I don't know if you guys feel about that or if we could

823
00:58:33.520 --> 00:58:41.200
refine it, but it's probably something in this zone. I don't know. I can try to breadboard it

824
00:58:41.200 --> 00:58:46.000
and I'll maybe tag you guys in it. You can definitely check on it here, but we probably

825
00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:51.280
need to breadboard the current and then maybe what the future version looks like. And this might be

826
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:56.960
useful either for like a little prototype like this, but the thing we can do is we can screenshot

827
00:58:56.960 --> 00:59:02.880
this. We can go to V0 and do a super quick mock-up to just look at and then throw away.

828
00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:08.960
That's what designs are for, just to see the idea. Because once we see it, you're like,

829
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:15.440
okay, it's a view. When Ira sees it, he can insert what his capacity is for the month,

830
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:20.080
but then it's also relative to what's actually happening. Because I think if you guys saw that,

831
00:59:20.080 --> 00:59:24.400
that could be like your one single view you kind of start from. And if you clicked on that project,

832
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:29.600
maybe then it kicks you into Notion or then it kicks you into the task grid or then whatever

833
00:59:29.600 --> 00:59:37.040
from there. It's kind of like a central hub. That's what I would be looking at every day,

834
00:59:37.040 --> 00:59:41.920
a couple of times a day. Yeah. I just want to highlight again, because it's just my instinct

835
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:48.320
is telling me that that thing we brought up of switching from monthly billing to per project

836
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:52.720
billing could be like a paradigm shift that might make a lot of these issues obsolete.

837
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:56.720
Just want to highlight this. It's true. Yeah. It could still...

838
00:59:57.360 --> 00:59:59.840
It just means that the months are not organized by the...

839
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:07.000
invoice dates in the project that just be working up by the work date, essentially.

840
01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:13.000
So we actually have this distinction in another view that I always like to see it on the invoice dates,

841
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:19.000
but Macy likes to see it based on the cash flow, like what actually happened, because those are two different views.

842
01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.000
So I don't think that would be a hard switch to make.

843
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:28.000
It still would be helpful to group it in 12 segments for the year, or else it's just like a little overwhelming.

844
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:34.000
But it could still say, hey, my goal in December is to make this much,

845
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:41.000
then it could just be based on the work weeks or when it gets paid.

846
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:42.000
I don't know, we can figure that out.

847
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.000
There's probably another field called team member date paid.

848
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.000
There's probably another one.

849
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:51.000
There's client date paid, then team member date paid.

850
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:55.000
These are things we should add after this call.

851
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:59.000
I think we should add that to Notion for Macy, because she knows,

852
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:03.000
and she actually has a payment database that she links to the project.

853
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:07.000
So it's kind of working that way, but we could add just a simple set of billing.

854
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:08.000
I think we call it invoice dates.

855
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:14.000
We could call it client date, or maybe there's an invoice date at client date paid,

856
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:17.000
which is a separate one than a team member date paid.

857
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:18.000
Just add that.

858
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.000
It should help a little bit.

859
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Like I said, we may end up with a new Notion board when we're done with this.

860
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:27.000
So that's it.

861
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:31.000
Okay, guys, I know we went an hour, so let everybody just have a good session.