All right, you guys are my witness that it said recording in process, and it said that
last time too, last week, and yet it didn't record.
So I'm not sure.
Now let me ask you guys a question.
The AI recording device that's on right now, that's basically writing a transcript.
Does that belong to one of you guys, or is that just on my Zoom?
Any of you?
Is that your...
It's not me.
Okay.
Nobody else?
No.
I assume it's part of Zoom, whether it's your Zoom or not, but it's not something that
we currently know.
Yeah.
I think that's a new update, Jackie, because I had that happen the other day.
Whenever I click on it, it says it recorded with AI, so it dictates it for you.
Great.
That's good, because that means that we probably have the transcript from last week somewhere,
because the video actually didn't get recorded for some reason.
All right.
So let me just make sure that all these settings are right, and then we turn our camera on.
Just one sec.
Okay.
Trying to keep up with all the updates that these apps are having, and last week it said
the same thing.
It said recording in process, but we can't find the recording anywhere, so we don't know
what's going on with that.
All right, friends, welcome.
Welcome to week two of our Heartwork for Couples.
I'm really excited about this course.
You guys are the early adopters of this course.
We only had a handful of couples sign up for it out of the gate, but I believe that this
is going to be a game changer for so many marriages out there, because as some of you
are seeing, it really forces you to get vulnerable.
This doesn't work if you don't get vulnerable, right?
So it forces you to get vulnerable.
It forces you to deal with things that have nothing to do with the marriage.
You brought them in to the marriage.
The marriage didn't create them.
It didn't cause them.
You already were carrying those things, and you brought them in with you.
We talk about this in the original Heartwork, just for individuals.
See David's back there somewhere.
He has to teach men's tonight, so he's headed to teach a men's session right now.
We are not at our home.
We are in Utah right now, you guys, and so we're dealing with altitude, and we're dealing
with dryness.
I feel like the Crypt Keeper.
I feel like my skin's just going to fall off.
It's so dry here.
I don't know how people live here.
Lots of lotion.
But in the original Heartwork for individuals, we talk about a story about when I went to
a restaurant called Captain D's.
Anyone know what Captain D's is?
I don't even know if it's still around.
I don't know if it still exists, but it was like a fried fish place.
Does anyone remember Arthur Treacher's?
Okay.
Well, it was a ghetto version of that.
Arthur Treacher's is like a five-star restaurant, I feel like, compared to Captain D's.
But Captain D's was this really disgusting fast food fish restaurant, and when I was
a young woman in my late teens, I had a boyfriend, and that boyfriend invited me to come and
eat at Captain D's with his parents so that his parents could see me, talk to me, meet
me.
And his parents didn't like me.
They thought that I was a bad influence, which I was.
If we're just being completely honest, this is before Jesus.
I was totally a bad influence, and there's a lot of reasons why they shouldn't have liked
me.
But we went to Captain D's, and after just a couple bites, I'd never had that kind of
food.
I'm not a seafood person.
After a couple bites of food, I got very, very ill, very sick.
I had to excuse myself, go to the bathroom, and then I didn't even come back to the table.
And it was at the beginning of dinner, so I dipped out on these people.
I went home, and I proceeded to be in bed for over a week.
And I thought I had food poisoning.
I thought that the old captain had poisoned me.
And what really had happened is that I was working at a daycare.
This was my college age years.
I was working at a daycare, and there's this thing called the kitty crud.
Basically, your immune system is trying to acclimate to all these germs and all these
little children that you're around.
And I had just started working there just a couple weeks before this happened, and I
just got the flu.
That's what it was.
But because it coincided with the trigger was eating at Captain D's, I was blaming the
trigger instead of what the trigger was triggering.
Make sense?
So for years, I was like, every time I would see Captain D's, I was driving down the road
and I would see that I would just have a negative, almost visceral response to that restaurant.
And you know, after I was a believer, God was just like, Hey, you know, it wasn't Captain
D's that made you sick.
Let's be reasonable for a minute.
Why don't you think through this?
And then, you know, I thought through it and I saw, yeah, it really wasn't Captain D's.
The chances are that, you know, I really just had a virus.
Like I was carrying the virus when I went into Captain D's.
And so God really used that as a teaching lesson for me in ministry, because oftentimes
we'll go into community, we'll go into a relationship, we'll go into a new job, we'll go into someplace
where we haven't been before, and we will have a negative experience and we will blame
that place instead of blame what we were carrying into the experience.
We were already carrying offense.
We were already carrying preconceived ideas.
In chapter two of the heart work for couples book, you see that we talk about how you already
have presets.
You guys know the presets on the radio.
If you push the button, it goes to a certain station.
We have those, we have those inside of us.
We have presets and they come from our origin family.
Sometimes they come from, you know, just our ancestry.
Things that we really can't even put a finger on.
I'm in Utah right now in Salt Lake City and I went to, it's a very big, as you know, Mormon
place.
I think 68% of Utah is Mormons.
They have a huge temple here in Salt Lake City because this is where Brigham Young founded
the city basically.
They have a big place called the Family Research Center.
You can go into this place for free and the people there are on mission.
They're Mormons that are on mission.
They're serving others as part of their get into heaven plan.
It's like it's state of the art.
Tons and tons of computers and different floors for different searches.
There's an international search floor.
There's the main floor and you can go sit with a volunteer, with a missionary and they
will help you track your family tree back 20 generations, 60 generations.
You know, I mean you have to have some information like people's names and birthdates and stuff.
Like I knew all the way up to my great grandparents, but then they were able to get me back 20
generations from there because of the database that they've set up.
I don't know those people.
I had never even heard their names before seeing them there, but their lives affect
me.
What they did on their time on earth and what they passed down as far as belief systems,
as far as presets, it affects me, right?
It does.
The only way that we're ever going to not be affected by things that we can't even explain
or put our finger on is if we're willing to do this work.
We're willing to allow Holy Spirit to show us where we have belief systems that have
come from our ancestors and our past and insinuations that have been handed down, ways of thinking,
ways of doing things that have been handed down.
All of this affects you and it affects your relationships, whether your relationship is
a romantic relationship like your marriage or whether it's a family relationship or a
parent-child relationship or a friendship or a community relationship, your relationship
with God, your relationship with yourself.
That's what chapter two is beginning to dig into even more.
How much of this is the marriage and how much of this is the programming that you brought
to the relationship in the first place?
I want to get into share time.
You guys, there isn't currently instructions for part three because they somehow disappeared
and Dave is trying to figure out where they went and so we will get those up as soon as
we can.
He's going to work on that as soon as he gets off his session, okay?
So for those of you that are ready to go on to chapter three or part three, we want to
make sure that you have what you need.
All right.
Okay, so I took some screenshots just so we can all stay on the same page tonight.
I want to make sure we're getting some quality shares.
Carla was vulnerable in the group, in the app and just said, hey, this work is bringing
up a lot of conflict for me and Jeremy and here's the thing.
It should, it should, it shouldn't, it shouldn't necessarily blow y'all out.
If you're crashing out, then we've got to talk about that.
But conflict is not bad.
Conflict points to where the cracks are.
We want to have healthy conflict.
Conflict's important in relationship
because what it's going to do, it's
going to be revealing for healing, right?
That's the point.
And so it's OK for that to happen.
In fact, I feel like, in fact, I write about that
in this part two, this week two.
If you guys notice, I write about that.
Did you guys notice that?
I don't know, Carla, if you and Jeremy have even made it
that far in the reading.
But I actually talk about how that is actually
a sign, not of bad things, but of progress, of process.
It's a sign of that.
So I don't know if you guys even made it
that far in week two of the materials.
But if you did, you would see that that is part of it, OK?
I got through the reading, but we
couldn't get through together.
Got it.
OK.
All right, so let's jump in.
I'm going to go ahead and ask you questions.
We'll go clockwise.
So we'll start with Jim and Phyllis.
They're at the top of my screen.
Let's start with.
All right, I want to start with.
Well, we'll just start with your aha moments.
But I really want to go through.
We have a revealing for healing cycle
that I do want to put that up in you guys' group,
even though it's from the heart work for individuals.
I want you to be able to see that.
So like Jeremy and I were talking
about on our last session, how you can trace back
your reaction.
You can go with the thing that's happening right now.
And you can trace it back.
And we want to be able to do that.
But there's a different revealing for healing cycle
in the heart work for couples.
And it goes hope, this time will be different.
Honeymoon, things are looking up.
As soon as you kind of feel like you have a breakthrough
with each other, then you go through a little honeymoon
phase.
We're like, oh, things are going good, right?
Things are looking up.
They're going good.
And then someone gets triggered, which is going to happen,
right, because there's bombs inside of us
that we need to defuse before they blow up and go off.
But instead of meeting that trigger with curiosity,
and friends, you will know when you're healing when you start
to meet triggers with curiosity.
Why do I feel that way?
Let me take my revealing for healing cycle
and figure out where this is coming from instead
of immediate blame, immediate fight or flight, freeze
or fawn, OK?
So it goes hope, this time will be different.
Honeymoon, things are looking up.
Trigger, here we go again.
Anyone ever said that in any type of relationship,
even not just this one?
At work, in a community, you think things are getting better.
You feel like you were really heard.
You had a conversation with your boss.
You felt like they really heard you.
They heard what you need.
And things are, you know, so you're happy.
You're feeling hopeful at work.
You're happy again.
And then some crazy BS thing happens, just like before.
You're like, here we go again.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
And then the shame sets in.
When it's in relationship, the shame will set in.
And this is a version of what you'll feel.
We're never going to get this right.
This is never going to change, right?
And then what happens right after that feeling
is usually some sort of self-protection.
Whatever your self-preservation technique is,
that's going to come into play.
And what you're going to do is you're
going to protect yourself.
In the cycle, I put withdrawal.
But for some people, it's not withdrawal, is it?
Put on your boxing gloves.
You're ready to go.
And it doesn't matter what it is.
But your reaction to that is, I'm going to protect myself.
So you're going to fight, flight, fawn, or freeze,
right there.
And to answer Jeremy's question better about,
I think it was Jeremy that asked, what's the fawning?
Fawning is when you kind of kiss other people's butts.
You're a people pleaser.
You don't have good boundaries.
You'll do anything to make the conflict go away.
You'll just give them their way.
You'll just do whatever they want, right?
You just begin to flatter them or begin
to try to diffuse, maybe even be funny.
That could be a fawning.
Just try to make them laugh and make them happy again.
You just want everything to be peaceful and everyone
to be happy.
And so you become the person that's
responsible for everyone's emotions
in whatever that looks like, OK?
All right, so starting with Jim and Phyllis,
let's just go over, as you were going
through the material for part two, what really stood out
to you, what kind of aha moments you have,
what kind of conflict maybe did you have?
Did you get into a fight like Jeremy and Carla?
What happened?
Go ahead and share it guys.
Hey, you guys are muted. I know I'm I was trying to unmute myself to tell them they were muted.
Sorry
We'll see so last week Clayton was talking about leading but Phyllis took off on trust
so I kind of followed her on the trust thing and
Leading I struggle with that with Phyllis because I tell her all the time
She's always asking me to lead but she doesn't want to be led
And so we had a blowout the other day on on that subject
you know, I
Put on the boxing gloves right away
And
You know, it was over something stupid, you know
it was we were cleaning the garage for the first time in 15 years probably and I
Was in charge of taking things out and putting in certain piles and that it wasn't good enough or it wasn't in a wrong pile
I guess and
so that kind of got out of control, but
but I
Think yeah, we that was our blowout wasn't you know
Okay, Phyllis what's your take on that this reminds me of that meme on the internet you guys where it's like a voiceover and
the voiceover is
Lead me but only lead me when I want to be led and I feel like being left. This is funny
Okay. So Phyllis, what was your what was your take on that?
well, I
Think it was
His
Reaction was way more than it needed to be. I think that I mean we were cleaning out
I
Mean it was over. It was a box of nails
Okay, I was looking you know, I look it was
They took it out. They put it by the fence. I was just looking through it. Is this something that we're gonna need?
He said no, I said, okay, but you know, it's like immediately
He's mad and
And then I can't you know, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Then leave it there. We don't need it
okay, and I
And then I can't and then we can't like get back on track and then we're doing other stuff is that you know
It's like, okay, whatever whatever you decide whatever you decide so I'm like
Whatever. I'm like, whatever. I
Don't know. I just there's it's like at that point when I'm asking questions
Is there other things that we need or should we get rid of?
Is this something that you think will we could use or not use, you know?
I
Get like totally frustrated
I mean, let me ask you guys a question. Did you guys see yourselves in the couple the example that I used in week two of
Of the of the couple. Did you guys see yourself in that couple?
Was
in week two
in
Week two week two is reading. I know you guys have been in for a while and you guys have probably
Just I we're just rereading it the angry wife
Not the well, not the angry rife, but let's let's let's read it real quick you guys
Okay, a couple who fought on repeat Amanda and Jay, okay
They've got a ball man and Jay been married for a long time. Just FYI. They felt like they were incompatible
Okay, but when they began to describe their arguments to me and it's reminding me of y'all's arguments right now
Okay, it was very it was very clear that what was really happening is it was kind of the same thing over and over again
where
Where I don't know why this has been this is just this is like a total
Gosh, that's a typo. Okay. Oh, you know what happened their names really are Ben and Laura in real life
But I tried to change their names to Amanda and Jay and then I didn't change it all the way through
Okay, nobody tell anybody okay, nobody tell anybody okay, but anyway, so
So Ben, that's his real name
He he would feel disrespected and then and but Laura would feel unheard and it wasn't about the fight was never about what the fight
Was about it wasn't about cleaning a garage. It wasn't about nails. It wasn't about whatever
Because what Ben's childhood was chaotic and you know
keeping things in order, like control, that made him feel good and safe.
And Laura's childhood was very strict.
She was kind of like spoken.
I remember like, you know, just be quiet, only spoken,
speak when you're spoken to kind of thing and control made her feel trapped.
OK, so every time Ben tried to fix
something, which he thought was kind of like in love, like what you're saying right
now, Jim, with just leading, getting things done, kind of taking it off the plate.
You know, she she felt controlled.
And it just kind of lather and repeat over and over and over again.
So the argument was not about ever about what it was about.
It was just about
feeling trapped, feeling controlled.
And so I kind of see your situation like that in some ways
where Jim is very practical, he's just trying to practically do things.
But then maybe, Phyllis, you know,
that makes you feel like you don't have a say or a voice or also just makes you
feel just afraid to allow someone else that level of,
you know, just kind of being on autopilot and allowing someone else to just kind of
take the lead and not kind of micromanaging that because you're so used
to being on your own.
The will and also it's like, you know, that's
just how it always was.
You know, my mom is a throw it out, throw it out, throw it out.
And so
so there so like I felt like I was getting ganged up on with him and my mom.
It's like, get rid of it, just get rid of it, get rid of it.
I'm like, well, wait, wait a minute.
OK, but the garage has the garage hasn't been the garage hasn't been cleaned out
for 15 years. Is it like it's not a hoarder mess, though, is it?
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Jim's laughing.
You're saying no, no, no.
But Jim's laughing.
So, Jim, is it like a lot of junk that's been kept for no reason or what?
So I worked in construction my whole life.
Right. I know what nails are going to be used,
screws, you know, metal plates.
I keep things that we would use.
These are items that have been under the bottom shelf of five shelves high.
And not moved, I don't know,
since they redid their house in 20 or 2004 or something like that.
So it's probably been longer than 15 years.
I would hope that she has faith in me,
that I would not throw something away that we may use.
In a year, right, even though it hasn't been used, this is the real argument.
I want you to see it. OK, this is the real thing.
It has nothing to do with the stupid box of nails.
It's like my couple kept leaving the cap off the toothpaste.
You know, it's not about that.
OK, but here's the thing.
So, Phyllis, I'm going to I'm going to help you as a wife, as a woman.
I just want to tell you one thing.
Men like to be used.
They like to serve.
They like to figure things out.
They like to, you know,
just like what he's saying, they like to fix things.
They like to, you know,
they like to to do things so that we don't have to worry about them,
you know, in certain in certain ways.
So all of us have opinions, especially
people like you who have been single for a very, very, very long time
and never really had anyone to do this kind of stuff for them.
One thing that will have to happen here
is you will have to surrender control to to Jim in certain areas.
OK, like this one.
And.
If he does something that, you know,
you wouldn't have done, who cares?
You know, I can't tell you how many times
in 18 years of marriage I've had to just say, hey, babe, that sounds good.
You go ahead and figure it out.
You just do whatever you think.
And that makes him feel great.
Now, he's not going to do it the way I
would do it, and half the time he's doing things that I don't even know anything
about anyway, I'd have to Google it to figure it out what I would do anyway.
But I don't have to worry about the outcome
of those things, because even if he does it wrong, it's still going to be right.
Does that make sense?
Even if he does it wrong, meaning like does it in a way that I
think is wrong and I would have done it differently,
that's still a win because he did it and he did it his way.
And it it built this important thing called trust.
Him knowing that I trust him with taking care of it, does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's a box of nails.
Now, when you go out and you're you're you're kind of supervising what mom,
what your husband's doing in the garage and and second guessing, like, hey,
why are we throwing this out? Are we going to need this?
You know, it's a waste of your time.
It's redundant.
We don't need two people doing that, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I hear Phyllis's concern when she says she feels teamed up on, like her mom.
Her mom is definitely in the kitchen, the pantry, the refrigerator.
She looks at dates.
Who invited mom here?
She lives with us.
My mom lives here.
Lives with us.
She's lived with Phyllis forever.
Yes.
Yeah.
She's a wonderful lady.
Yeah.
Right?
We have no problems.
But if...
So that's how her mom is.
She will throw things away according to dates, whether it's a day before or a day after.
And I think Phyllis...
I'm guessing, I'm not trying to really understand what she's thinking or put words in her mouth
But I think that's where she has that fear that her mom and I are throwing things away.
And that's not how it was when we were doing the garage.
Right?
I was pulling out the heavy stuff.
Right?
The box of nails are heavy.
I pulled them out.
Right?
They pulled out all the Christmas stuff.
Yeah.
So...
It is trust.
That's what it comes down to, trust.
Our whole situation has been trust.
I think that's what started our original problem, was a trust problem between the house and
the family.
Right?
Yeah.
I think that was a trust problem between the two of us.
Yeah.
Right?
And you guys...
It takes time to build trust.
But this is how we build trust.
We've been working on that.
This is how we build trust.
We've been working on that.
Yeah.
You gotta allow people to do things their way in order to begin to build trust.
You know, mom living with you, I think that's a lot of stress, honestly, Phyllis.
And I'm not saying that mom can't live with you, but I'm saying if she's gonna live there,
it doesn't sound like there's real good boundaries.
So have you talked to mom about how the things that she...
We treat it as...
The three of us, we treat it kind of as roommates, right?
Respect each other's areas.
We respect each other's position on things.
We talk things out.
There's nothing that we don't talk out.
We are.
Right?
Like we have...
Phyllis and her mom have lived together for a long time.
We have our private area.
We live upstairs.
My mom pretty much lives, is downstairs.
Yeah.
We eat to dinner almost every night together, breakfast.
My mom's 82, so yeah, but I think, yeah, I think it's like more like roommates.
Her mom and I, we get along great.
I think that might be a feeling with Phyllis.
We get along great, maybe too well, her mom and I, right?
So that's why I think she feels that maybe we were...
Big gang up on me.
Coming together to decide what we wanted to throw away in the garage.
And we let Phyllis go through everything.
For me, it was stuff that was not used.
Like I have a theory.
If you ain't touched it in three years, you're probably not going to use it.
Now that's probably wrong.
That's how I look at things, unless it's tools, then it may be a different story.
And I think that was probably the question on everything there.
I think the bigger problem is the thing that Phyllis has actually said more than once in
the last few minutes, and that is she feels ganged up on.
And so Phyllis, once again, the virus was already in you before the marriage.
And so feeling ganged up on, feeling like you don't have a voice, feeling controlled,
that's from origin family.
That's in your relationship with your mom before Jim ever got here.
Now if Jim was not, I'm not saying not getting along with mom, but if Jim more stuck up with
for you and kind of intervened in stuff mom was doing, I think that that would make you
feel differently.
And I'm not saying he should do that.
I'm just saying the fact that they get along, the fact that they may think alike in some
other ways.
I think that that is really what is making you feel unsafe.
Do I want to stick up for you when it comes to between a conversation with your mom?
This is already inside of you.
This doesn't have to do with Jim.
Okay.
Right.
All right.
So you have to deal, you have to deal, listen, you have to deal with unresolved stuff with
mom.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's important.
Yep.
You got to deal with that.
Yep.
And you can, it doesn't mean you don't like your mom, doesn't mean you don't love your
mom.
Right.
All those times when you felt belittled by your dad and scared of your dad, guess who
wasn't coming to your aid, mom.
You know, there's some stuff going on there because you, you felt very afraid.
of your dad, you felt a lot of things growing up in your family and was there. And so that's
stuff that you have to, you're going to have to work through that. Okay. And this dynamic
with Jim in the house now is bringing some of this stuff to the surface, right? Okay.
So you know what you can do that worksheet, that's part of week two, you guys, the shadow
work, the shadow work, the thing that we want to bring into the light. This isn't going
to want to let you know that worksheet isn't about necessarily what you want to bring into
the light about your partnership. It can be what Phyllis needs to bring into the light
about mom and about the dynamic that she's had with her mom since she was a little girl.
Cause you know what we learned to do when we love people. And especially we have to
cohabitate. We just learn how to get along. But deep inside, we still feel unsafe deep
inside. We still feel unheard, but we just learn how to get along because we don't want
to fuss and we don't want to fight. And I can tell that Phyllis is a key as a peace
keeper, you know? So she's more of a fawn or maybe where she's just like, okay, I don't
want anyone to be upset at me. So what I want you to do with that worksheet, Phyllis, is
I want you to bring into the light, the things that you need someone to hear about your childhood
and Jim will be the person that will be willing to hear that stuff. It's not disloyal for
you to say things about your mom and about how you feel and how you might feel, you know,
like you're not just unheard, but you know like she doesn't care about what you want
or what you think about the food in the fridge is thrown away. Okay. It doesn't matter how
small it is. You guys, it's a deeper thing. Do you understand? Okay. So let's use that.
Worksheet to do that. And Phyllis, I want you to really trust your husband and share
stuff maybe that you've never shared with anyone. You first have to get in touch with
those feelings inside of you, but I think that you can, cause this is not about Nance.
Right. And it's not even about your husband cleaning out the garage. It's about you feeling
like you didn't have a say before and now you doubly don't. And so let's get to the
root of that. Seriously, friends, I want you to see something really important. When Phyllis
was growing up, it was mom. Mom was there, but then dad was there. Right. And that combination,
that male and female combination of mom and dad, Phyllis did not get her needs met. Now
there's a male and female combination in Phyllis's life again. It's not dad, it's Jim,
but it's still mom and Jim. Do you see what I'm saying? It's still, mom is still there. And now
there's a man there and Phyllis. And so it's important, even though this was her husband and
not her father, that she deals with the stuff that happened in origin family. There's presets
there. Cause we don't want to project that onto Jim. And we don't want to project that onto mom
and Jim because it's not mom and dad. And we want to, and we want to really release the stuff that
we have going on in our heart towards mom. Cause like you said, she's elderly, you love her. You're
not going to get rid of her. So you got to learn how to not just get along with her and live with
her and just kind of keep the peace, but how to really enjoy your life in your own home and feel
like you have a voice and feel like, you know, things are being done the way you want them to be
done too. Because you matter to Phyllis. Okay. Yep. And Jim, I really believe that you're going to
really be able to hear Phyllis's heart when she does that worksheet about mom.
Yeah. Phyllis has gotten a lot better at opening up so much better than a year ago.
Yeah, she has. Yep. Yay. All right, guys. Um, that's good. Okay. We're going to do more shares. Uh, let's
get through, let's get through some shares you guys. So, cause I, there's several other things I want to
ask all the couples about, um, that were a part of, of this part two, this week two, part two, there's four
parts and we're in part two right now, or at least this is a live coaching for it. Right. So next on my
screen would be Chuck. Um, you guys didn't get to go last time. So just any kind of aha's you had from one
week, one or two, um, any sort of revealings, anything you guys, this is Chuck and Millie, if you
haven't met them before.
And I would change it to Chuck and Millie, but honestly, I didn't think about it at first. And now
that we're doing this, I have no clue how to change it. So I'll do better before week three.
Okay.
We're learning, we're still learning a lot. It's been a
year. And yeah, this was definitely an eye opening week.
As far as I didn't realize, as he pointed out, I come home
sometimes totally exhausted. And maybe just to avoid conflict, I
would withdraw, I would go do whatever chores, whatever I had
to do. And I wouldn't talk, which would then spike him to
get angry. And then he'd go out for a walk. And I'm like, okay,
he's not coming after me to figure out what's wrong. He's
just going off to walk off anger. So we don't have any
conflict. We're not very good with conflict. We have ways to
go to be able to say what we really mean. But this really
opened up the conversation last night. It was last night.
Yeah, we worked on it yesterday.
Yeah, still processing. But now I see it in a different light.
What he was interpreting was nowhere near to what I was
trying to achieve, and vice versa. So it's it's the
beginning of something new.
That's good.
Oftentimes, we're not thinking the same things. And it's bad to
assume. Now, you guys, you were long distance before you got
married, right? And Chuck moved to be in your area. Is that
right? Because I have a lot of couples to remember things
about. So but I do remember that you guys moved and you guys
married pretty quickly after. How long did you were you in a
courtship for six months? Yeah. Okay. So it's fair to say that
you're really getting to know each other. Now in this first
year of marriage, right?
And also, we kept changing stuff. Like you said, it was a
quick dating report ship. And then I move into home number
one. And then I don't even know if we made it six months there,
maybe. And all of a sudden, I'm told, hey, we're going to go
look for our own home. And it's like, I hope I stopped moving
at some point. And I'm told I'm not going to move anymore. I'm
counting on
a lot of changes. So a lot of changes in the last year and a
half for you guys. Yes, a lot. Yeah. That could be stressors
just on its own. So okay, so getting on the same page, you
guys, listen, no one's a mind reader. What I love about what
Millie just said is that, you know, oftentimes, we're just
assuming that we know what the other person is thinking or
what is behind their actions or behaviors. And then, you know,
because we think we know, we react to them, according to
what we think. And the problem with that is that, you know,
unless we really ask them, and they are vulnerable enough to
really tell the truth and share, we're never going to know.
And sometimes people don't know what's behind their behavior as
well. And so being willing to get to the root of it is why
we're all here. Right. And I think from my perspective, it
wasn't even just I'm getting angry about it. It was I get to
work remotely. I don't like to call it working from home,
because it sounds like I'm on a vacation. I work remotely.
Yeah. And I worked, I asked for that for a long time. And then
there was a global circumstance. And now I get to just work, I
can work right from a home office. And it's wonderful.
It's, it's exactly what I need to do, instead of driving long
distances and going to work, but the Millie used to be able to
work in her home, and then circumstances changed. And now
she's out of the home working all the time. And she loves what
she does. And it's very valuable, and useful to use that
word, because I love that word. But um, but it means I'm the
one staying at home, and she's out there. And she would come
home and say, man, I'm so happy to finally get to be home. But
that's not the way she was acting. And it wasn't even me
just leaving because I was angry about it. I couldn't be around
it. Like maybe I had a really good day. And now this cloud has
come home. And she doesn't know what to do with all this
negative. She's happy she's home, but she's full of negative
energy, too. And I'm just saying, you know, Chuck just
needs to step outside here for a second, I need to get away from
this for just a moment, because it's I don't know what to do
with it. It's too much. So it's a little bit like the first
conversation, it's sort of figuring out how are you really
feeling? And do you just need to come home and say, I need to
get this off my let's, let's blow through this right now.
Here's what's bothering me. Let's get it done now. So we can
enjoy the rest of the evening instead of letting it
stew for a while, not even fix it. I just, I'm exhausted and I just wanted to share,
but yes, but it's also, sometimes we're not sharing and I just don't know what's going on.
Let me ask you, Millie, not that this is in any way, shape or form Chuck's fault because it's not,
but is there any part of you that resents him getting to stay home and you having to go out
into the rat race every day? A little bit. Yeah. I've done it for 35 years, but I've chosen,
well, God has led me to a whole new career at the age of 59, 58, 59. And I do love it.
It's like doing ministry and getting paid for it. That's great. I don't get to enjoy our house.
I'm never here. And it was worse on move number one, because we're in a one story home now,
but we were in her town home. This is the home that she had for 10 years. And suddenly you
interject me. And not only do you put me into this, but I took her desk over because that was
the only place I could work. I couldn't do it upstairs because my dog can't go up and down
the stairs. So every day she had to see me at the desk she used to work at. And now because of that,
I took over the whole first floor. Yes. It was not, it was not unclear at all that both her and
her daughter wasn't really happy with me at that point. It's like, what, what is he doing? He's
taken over half the house. He took mom's desk. And I got that. It was like, I don't have anywhere else
to do it. So we're better here because you can put me in my office right over here. My little
corner doesn't come out into the home, but also you, you can enjoy the rest of the home while
I'm doing stuff. I haven't, I can shut and all that, you know? Well, you know, when, when my
kids were, my kids were young and they would come home from being out in the world all day at public
school, you know, and like I, like Millie said, she loves what she does, but let's face it being
out, especially with the kind of job, it sounds like you have, you know, there's a lot of sliming
going on out there. And when the kids would come home, it'd be important for them to have a routine
where, you know, part of the routine was they would go get in, they would go take a shower,
you know, to kind of wash all the germs of school and all the crud and all the stuff off.
And they would be able to, you know, um, especially if they were in for the night,
if it was, if it was winter time and there was no playing outside going to happen, it was already
getting dark, you know, kind of thing, but just having some kind of routine Millie for yourself,
where, you know, coming home, you know, he's been home all day, like a golden retriever,
waiting for you to come home, you know, excited to see your face, you know, and you come home
and you got the weight of this, this life, this other life on you, you know, coming together and
having some sort of understanding and some sort of routine where you can kind of wash all that off.
And, and you Chuck being able to understand, and then also being able to come into connection,
because you've gone from each other all day long. And, and, you know, it seems like Chuck has kind
of a very, like, positive sort of personality and wanting to, you know, connect. And I think that I
think that having some sort of coming home routine, while you, while you're, while you're
doing this, you're not going to do this forever, Millie. Right. And I think that because you want
to be at home more at 59 years old, I think that you should start working towards what is that
going to look like? That's the goal for this year. Exactly. That's something that came up. So doing
this, these chapters in the worksheet is how can we not just have a goal of, let's grow this,
let's have other people participate in doing it. Millie's more of watching over other people doing
it because while we're not old, we're not getting any younger and it is taxing. Yeah. Any of this
stuff is getting harder, but what's the, what are the processes to get there? And we, and it wasn't
fun, but we talked through that where it's like, maybe Chuck can look at some of the numbers in
and numbers out and all that. If I'm already sitting on my butt in front of laptops all day,
why not throw me another thing to do that? I understand what, how to do it already and load
off of her, but then talk about the vulnerable thing. It's been months of fear to even get to
this. Right. Because it's making us talk about it. Right. We have to talk about it. That's great.
She didn't, she was concerned. What am I going to think when we
see the real numbers.
And my answer was, it'll be okay either way.
It's the not knowing what the real numbers are
that's causing aggravation for both of us.
If the real number is whatever number we think it is,
if it's bigger or smaller, it's the real number
and that's okay.
If it's too small, we make it bigger.
I don't think it can be too big,
but we need to know what the reality of it is
before we make the next step.
So this is the thing that you guys
brought out of the dark into the light.
Yes, that was that part.
It's amazing, I love it, that's great.
And there's some practical things
that you guys can do as well
while you guys are navigating
what this change will look like this year.
How much money do we need to make to retire Millie
or to put her in a supervisory role
and what she's doing and what does this look like?
You can also do some practical stuff
of like maybe getting dinner started
or let there be some things that Chuck can do
because he's home, he's boots on the ground at home,
some things he can do that when you come home,
you can more easily acclimate into your personal life
leaving all this stuff out here, right?
Yes, and you won't be amazed
because you do this for a living,
but it is kind of amazing how even that can be hard
because for instance, when I was just me
and even me with my prior wife
because of the state she was in,
I would do a lot of the cooking
and the clothes washing and the whatever.
Yeah.
And Millie is so used to doing that for herself
that she'll be totally exhausted,
but she still has to keep doing that
instead of saying, could you do that?
Oh yes, Millie, you must end that immediately.
But the other side of the coin is,
and it's kind of like what Jim and Phyllis
were talking about,
you then have to trust me to do that
because I don't wash clothes like she washes clothes
because I wasn't a guy looking for,
I wasn't looking to marry my mom.
I don't need somebody to do all these things for me.
I know how to wash clothes and cook food and all that,
but it's the way I want to do it.
So we have to learn to accept like meet in the middle
or accept the difference.
And that's not easy either.
Yeah.
It's been a learning curve.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you guys, there could be deal breakers.
Like take laundry, for instance,
David oftentimes will do the laundry at our house.
I have lots of garments that just don't simply,
cannot be dried.
They don't have a dryer.
And he knows which ones those are now.
If he has a question about it, he'll say,
hey babe, is this something that goes in the dryer?
And I'll be like, no.
And then he'll, you know,
we have a thing in our house where we hang up clothes to dry.
They can learn ladies,
if they take on any chores that usually were considered
female chores back in the day,
they definitely can learn for sure.
Very capable.
Bras didn't go in the dryer,
but I purposely don't buy shirts
that can't go in the dryer.
Of course not.
You're a man.
Why would you do that?
I don't even want to iron stuff.
That seems like a waste of resources,
but she's got things that must hang up.
So I'm slowly learning like, oh, nope.
That's the thing that gets hung up.
Or she'll tell me ahead of time that that's in the washer.
Don't put it in the dryer.
Yes, we actually can pick, you know, we're simple.
I heard that.
We do understand stuff.
I love it.
Well, it sounds like you guys are on a good,
on a good track right now.
So I'm excited.
And you guys, just so you know,
in Heartwork for Couples,
not every week is going to be a pulling back, revealing.
We're going to get to a place where we're actually building.
Right now, we're kind of tearing down a little bit,
but in the last two weeks,
we're going to start building up three and four,
week three and four.
So please don't think that this is all going to be about,
blah, you know, just all the stuff inside.
Cause that's not the case.
All right, we're going to go ahead and move on to Stacey.
Clayton's not here tonight, it doesn't seem,
but Stacey is.
And if she is, there she is.
Stacey, have you guys had any,
have you guys had any, you know,
any sort of aha moments?
You know, tell us, you know,
what was your experience with the worksheet
or any of the activations?
So I would say that the aha moment for me is that,
you know, I very much want to help Clayton.
And not that he's, he's not helpless.
He's like way capable,
but like when he's processing through things,
I'm like, I'm kind of like,
well, I want to help you to do this.
And he doesn't need my help.
And so I am learning.
I'm like, cause I want to, you know,
I want to help him and, and okay.
Like, how can we fix this?
Like, like, let's, let's fix it.
And so I am realizing that I just need to listen.
That's all.
That's what he needs me to do.
Cause I'm like, what do you need me to do?
He's like, I just, you know,
I'm like thinking and talking.
and I just need you to listen.
So that was an aha moment.
And he had an aha moment as well.
And it had to do with,
he had not his first marriage,
but another relationship.
And the responses that he would get
would be very judgmental, critical, and things like that.
So sometimes when he's sharing with me,
he says, he said this,
and then I had something to say to him,
but he's like, shame on me that I stayed that long.
Shame on me that I did this.
Shame on me that I did that.
So I let him say all that.
And I said, Colleen, you are not that man.
And I'm not, no, shame off you.
You're not that man.
Shame off you.
And I prayed over him and I said,
so I don't, he's like,
I just want you to know that I'm not gonna do that,
that I'm not gonna go back there.
And I said, but I've never even like judged you
or criticized you for anything.
I know you have a past.
I know that you've got things going on.
And I said, so you're saying things
because you think I'm gonna do that.
I said, but I've never done that.
So you're projecting that on me.
And he's like, oh, I said,
you don't have to tell me that you're not that man
because I know you and you're not that man.
And I'm looking forward to,
and you're not even the man that I met in April.
Right, so that was a breakthrough for him
because he has a tendency to over-explain
because he over-explained in the,
even in his career, he had over-explained it.
And I'm like, you don't have to over-explain that.
So that was a good breakthrough.
And then today I flipped out a little bit
about this dang rehearsal dinner.
Not the rehearsal dinner.
The rehearsal dinner.
Stacey, he's in charge of it.
He is in charge of it.
And so he's like, hey, just wanted to let you know,
I talked to Crystal from Chewy's
and we're all set and everything like that.
And yeah, I go, okay, I go,
so is she going to send you like an email confirmation?
And he's like, well,
and he's like, well,
but we've been talking.
And I'm like, and I got a little nutty.
I go, you don't know.
I go, you know what?
You don't know if Crystal might quit next week.
And then we don't have any confirmation.
And then we're going to show up there on May 6th
and nothing's going to be ready.
And then, and I mean, I just like spun out
and he's like, Stacey,
he's like, I'm working it.
And I'm like, well, were you going to ask for an email?
And so I got nutty.
And then 30 minutes later, I called him.
And I said, I apologize.
I treated you like you're a child,
like you couldn't take care of this.
And I said, and I know exactly what it was.
I was creating worry
that things weren't going to be perfect.
And then I would look bad.
I said, and that's pride.
And I repent of it.
It's good.
And I said, and I don't care if you get an email or not.
You go on with it.
And here's the thing, you guys.
So let's look at this.
Cause I love this example
because Stacey is having a revealing for healing
because she's getting down to the motivations
behind going nutty.
But simply saying,
especially when you're planning or event planning,
because Stacey is a professional, okay?
She's held an executive type position for years.
And executives learn that you don't get what you expect,
you get what you inspect, okay?
And so what has happened here is there's a gift
that she has of administration
that's being overextended by trauma
and it's becoming a weakness in her relationship.
I did my Supernatural Saturday about this
just recently.
And so what's important here is that both can be true.
She can be worried about looking bad
and worried about it being a bust and being embarrassed.
She can be worried about all of those things
and worry that Clayton is not, you know,
being responsible enough or conscientious enough
or being too lackadaisical, too laid back,
you know, too, you know, irresponsible.
Because responsibility oftentimes is a fancy word for fear.
And so she's operating in that.
So that can be true.
And it can also be true that it's just not wise
to not get an email confirmation when planning an event.
Both of those are allowed to be true, right?
Yes.
And so the way Stacey could have done that differently
is she could.
have, you know, and she is, you know, processing why she, you
know, crashed out about it. But then secondly, also being able
to say, you know, because this isn't his field, and this isn't
what he's used to doing as far as planning events, you know,
like he's doing it. And we love him for doing it.
But actually, he is. So his career, huh, was he was the
dirt. He was like, he was the regional director of food
services for Army Air Force Exchange bases. He was over all
of the different food court people. So it is his thing.
He never got he never got anything in writing about what
was going to happen. Right? But this is right. So that that's
the other thing. And I said, Okay, I go. I understand. It's
January 19. This thing is until May 6. Sure. So I said, he goes
Stacy, I'm not done with it. Like I'm not done yet. Exactly.
Okay, so he's not done. And so what Stacy can say is, sorry for
crashing out. This is why I crashed out. But then she can
also say, but I just really need you to know that as you continue
on, it would make it would give me a lot of peace if you had
that in writing. And I told him, and I said, I know I'm wrong on
all of this. But I don't give a shit. I still want an email.
And he's like, you will there will be an email.
Listen, listen, absolutely. Both are true. And I love it that you
owned your side of the street. Because you know what this is
this is what would have been ego you guys I want you to see what
ego would have been like in this situation. Because she is
fundamentally right. There should be a written there should
be a paper trail of an event. Because she is right. And that
is wisdom. She could have died on that hill. She could have
held her ground. She could have been upset. She could have been
like, no, this is irresponsible. This is, you
know, you're not doing this. Well, you're not she she had
ground to stand on there. And her ego could have gotten her
further and further into that. If she wasn't willing to go
deeper and say, Okay, even though on the surface, high
level, I am right. Down here, you know, this is why I feel so
afraid and so worried. This is why I'm reacting so viscerally
to this situation. That's not next week or two weeks from now
it's four months from now. And you did good. I'm proud of you.
And guess what, you're gonna have a million more
opportunities to do this in marriage. Exactly. David had to
eat crow today and just he was a curmudgeon. He was a grumpy,
grumpy Gus today. And he was just projecting on me that he
was projecting on me because we're traveling and he was
doing real good. And then finally, he just kind of crashed
out and started getting, you know, just hormonal and grouchy
guys, men have PMS to in case you didn't know they do. I
promise you they do. They have hormonal fluctuations, they get
attitudes, things happen. But you know, but then he
apologized. He didn't even let that much time go by. And the
more that you're married, the more that you humble yourself,
the more that you're not going to argue, it's that you're going
to understand that whatever you're arguing about isn't
really the problem quicker and quicker and quicker and quicker.
And you're going to forgive each other and come together.
And the good news is both of us are great at apology and great
at forgiving. Yeah, I've never been in a relationship with
someone who receives an apology and lets it go or takes
it and apologizes. Yeah. And so that's like, that's amazing.
It's amazing. Because the truth is, is that if Clayton didn't
like strong women, he would definitely not be with you. Oh,
no, he wouldn't. Yes. So we already know that he likes it.
Yeah, he just just have we just have to figure out how we all
fit in in this situation together, right? In the
relationship. So love that. Thanks for that share. Is he
now you can't come tonight, huh? Yeah, he's he's not feeling
good. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, prayers for full healing
for him. Yes. Yes. And make sure if you didn't do the bring the
shadow work into the light, if you didn't do that worksheet,
make sure that you do that. Because it's really a good one.
Okay. Carla and Jeremy. Aha. I know you guys had a hard time.
So anything you guys want to share? Where did the fighting
begin? Where'd you fall off? What was triggering? What
happened? Okay, I mean, I guess I can just I've been kind of
taking notes so that I can kind of keep it as short as
possible.
I mean, you obviously know, Jackie, we have lots of layers.
I think last week when we were talking about the fight or flight, freeze, fawn, we were
talking about defense and fear, like that was a big aha moment for me.
And so it kind of, for me, started last week when we had a discussion after our call.
And so I was doing really good and finding that I'm making progress by not being super
emotional responsive, because that is something that I tend to do, and I know it triggers
him significantly.
I get super emotional fight or flight, like super fight or flight.
And so that happened.
I kind of calmed myself, didn't react.
Then we had another situation a day or two later, I put pause on things.
And then so last night, we had this discussion to do heart work, because that's been kind
of put on the back burner, and it just got completely out of hand.
And so I exploded my emotion, like I held it together for as long as I could.
And then it just didn't.
And so there were definitely signals where I probably recognized he was in his triggers.
Now that I'm looking back in hindsight, and so I taking responsibility, I didn't stop
the conversation when I should have.
And so obviously, we're working with a therapist, and we're doing Gottman, I don't know if anybody's
familiar with that.
So we're trying to work with like Gottman communication and things like that.
So I try to work through that, and I was failing miserably.
But in hindsight now, just kind of sitting with it and processing, like you were sharing
about like Supernatural, like Supernatural Saturday, I think I got through about 20 minutes
of it, and got so much of it, and relate to this being a very hypersensitive person,
my gifts are definitely overextended, just very, I'm an empath, I have this gift of discernment,
I have gifts of leadership, I struggle with, you know, the teaching gift and leadership,
which falls into this area of control.
And so I see a lot of that really showing up, that what it comes down to is this meeting
me needing to just release a lot of control.
It's easy for me to kind of, I think I can see where his struggles are.
And I like, again, because I coach, I want to try to help fix, because I've done this
hard work, I can help.
But when I'm sitting here doing it as a couple, like, I know it's not my job to do it.
And so that's been really difficult.
And so one thing that I want to say, though, because I have, I've listened to Jeremy, not
just here, but also in some other times where we've, you know, been together, I don't even
remember.
But one thing that I've noticed about Jeremy is that he may not have done the work that
you've done, but he's very intuitive.
He understands processes, and he's intuitive, and has a very high, I think, a very high
emotional and spiritual IQ.
Now unfortunately, I think that some of your emotions, Jeremy, may have been shut down.
You may not use this higher IQ all the time, simply because of the dysregulation emotionally
in your former wife and your mother.
And so I think that that's caused you to kind of maybe try to stay away from your emotional
center, because it's not, it hasn't been a safe place, especially in the feminine with
the women in your life.
And then you marry this HSP, highly emotional, highly sensitive, you know, tuning fork here
in Carla.
And that's probably why you were drawn to her because of, you know, you do have a high
need for emotional connection.
But I think that maybe you haven't been able to really allow yourself that because it's
been so unsafe in the past, but you're very intuitive.
You have a high emotional and spiritual IQ.
So Carla, what I'm basically saying is he doesn't need your help.
I know.
And that's where like coaching head off because he doesn't need he he's actually
tell you things that are going to blow your mind if you just give him a chance to open up and do it.
Yeah, I think that's where it's like me having to dig deeper with where my fears are and where
like what needs what layers still need to be healed in me and that needing to control this
fear that you know it's not going to happen like can I actually trust him to do the work can I
actually trust him to show up is can I actually trust that he's going to own his side of the
street is he going to be capable of showing up okay so let's okay so remember the Captain D
story so let's unpack that for a second is this about Jeremy or is this about Bo's dad
I mean this is I mean this is about Bo's dad this is about previous relationships this is
clearly things that I've seen in my parents which that even kind of processing through today
um I can see in hindsight how I picked a lot of this up with my parents but I can now see past
why they responded the way they did and have compassion and understanding and know oh that's
where I got this from and then now I'm looking at past relationships I mean like oh now I've got all
these layers from past relationships on how a lot of that was validated and so now I'm in this
marriage where I'm terrified and these lies are coming in and it seems very real like it seems
like these lies are being validated and I'm like like obviously like I'm like no they're not these
are lies like I've done hard work replace it with truth like what do I gotta do here but it's but
the problem is is that when you get into your fight or flight response you know which is highly
emotional like you said and when that happens it actually sets back the the the ability to get
vulnerable and self-aware and trust in Jeremy it sets it back again so it's almost like you
gotta like do over again you know I'm saying like he starts coming out of his shell like a turtle
and then something happens it spooks him and he goes back in and it's you
that's triggered yeah and so we're in this like pursue and withdraw cycle and like my fight or
flight is my stress response which is his trigger to withdrawal freeze and fawn and like I'm just
like oh my gosh like are we ever going to get out of this cycle yes are we ever going to own our
stuff and the hard work and you guys in week two is very emotional it's very emotionally centered
and so you know but you guys can come at the work in a more practical way of just you know
making making an agreement to just share you know almost intellectually about the things that are
coming up and less from an emotional space the reason why I mentioned Bo's dad is because you
know you being in relationship and having to co-parent with someone who's not self-aware
someone who doesn't own his side of the street someone who doesn't notice the people that are
hurting right in front of him and the damage that is being done you know someone who is completely
divorced from his emotional center and has in my opinion that has a very low emotional IQ
that is definitely a scary thing because you know that that was hard not just for you but for Bo
and so not wanting to be with someone who shut down someone who doesn't want to feel someone who
doesn't want to talk about you know how they feel I mean you're definitely a sapiosexual
you're someone who needs the deeper connection of really knowing someone emotionally and spiritually
and intellectually and so and Jeremy definitely is all of those things and has the capability
and capacity to do that once he feels safe enough to connect with you that way right so Jeremy what
do you have to say are you there though is he there tonight yeah okay um you
in front of you I'm right here guys what do you have to say um so
so like last night I guess and honestly it's phenomenal to to see Carla go above and beyond
in leaps and bounds and trying to think outside of the box in order to to help from a communication
perspective like using the whole Gottman thing and chat gbt and all these different methods to try to
to figure out the best way to communicate I guess yesterday like when she brought her
computer in here and I was I was looking at like
all of these notes and then she was just kind of reading a bunch of information off about
her thoughts and it just, I started feeling very overwhelmed, um, and, you know, we, for,
I would say probably about 80%, 80% of our conversations seemed to, like there was a
positive progress and then we got to a tipping point to where, you know, I, I, I, you know,
it was, you know, I, there, there were times, you know, where I, I, I brought up that, you
know, I wanted to do the heart work, um, and, you know, and, you know, she wasn't in the
headspace or wasn't feeling well, which I totally understand, um, but that was me kind
of like putting an effort showing that, you know, that, that I, that I, I want to do this.
Like I get a lot from it. I, I love the connection that comes with it, especially whenever we're
reading it together and talking through it, it's very powerful to me. And, um, you know,
sometimes I feel like if I try like several times to do something and to show an effort
and then it doesn't happen, then I get a little sideways about it or I'll just, it's almost
like maybe I should do this on my own. And that's just kind of me getting in my head.
Um, but, but closer to the end of the conversation, it was, you know, I, I kind of got, I led
myself to the point of, I, I don't know why we have to continue. I don't know. I don't
understand why there has to be a conversation every single time. Like if I, if I give you
information, of course, this is the logical part speaking. If I give you information about
myself in terms of if I'm coming to you trying to instigate something that's important, not
only for our marriage, but for our faith and our relationship, and it doesn't happen, then
I'm going to feel a certain way about it. I think where I went sideways was I like,
you know, I felt like if I give you that information, now you have the ability to operate on that.
So that this, this doesn't have to constantly be a discussion or I have to constantly tell
you how I'm feeling. If I, if, if I'm trying to instigate something for our marriage in
this particular scenario, and you know, she was saying that, you know, she would like
for me to do that. So then once I started to see things elevate or escalate, I guess
is a better word while listening to her, I started thinking to myself, okay, is this,
and this is something that I've just learned over time. And that is picking and choosing
my battles. Right. And so trying to start thinking about this from while she's in the
midst of, of, of speaking, okay, well, how big of a sacrifice is it to be able to just
open up and, and share how it's making me feel whenever I'm trying to instigate something
for a marriage and it seems like I'm getting turned down or, or turned away, regardless
of what the circumstances are. Right. And, you know, then she felt like I was fawning
or whatever. And, and so I was, at that point I was trying to put myself aside and then
trying to think, okay, well, if this is something that she needs or desires, even though logically
in my mind, it's not necessary, I'm supposed to die to self as a husband and I'm supposed
to serve her as a wife. But then whenever I brought that up, it just, it started, it
started spiraling at that point in time. And it's just like, and, and, and I had to back
up and stop. And then, you know, we kind of, you know, when our separate ways or what have
you, but that's at least through my eyes, that's, that's what I experienced. Again,
I could be wrong, just going based on recollection and what I remember. So all of that in a nutshell
tells sounds to me like you just felt rejected. Is that accurate? I mean, I can see, I can
see that. I mean, how I was explaining how I feel whenever I try multiple.
times to engage in something and it doesn't happen, I can see how that could be a form
of rejection.
Sure.
Okay.
So when you guys have these confrontations, what does that look like?
Just what does it look like?
Is there someone yelling, or is there doors slamming, or are there people going different
directions?
How long does it take you guys to withdraw and not talk?
Or is one person roaming around trying to tell the other person how they feel and they're
not being listened to?
What does it look like?
I think last night we were probably in it for about what, because we were actually recording
that conversation.
We try to record our conversations.
And I think we were in it for about 30 minutes until it really definitely exploded.
Within the first few minutes, my approach and his freezing, I could tell there was this,
he felt like I was blaming him because I was pointing out how he gets defensive, which
he's acknowledged.
Okay.
I just really want to know what it looks like.
Do you raise your voice, Carla?
Are you like in his face?
No.
I mean, I think we're pretty, I mean, from my perspective, I mean, I like to hear his
side of it as well.
I think we come to the table and we're trying to dialogue back and forth.
I mean, obviously I have a lot more words, so that he might feel like he has to get a
part in it twice.
But eventually, like by that 30 minute mark, it was, I was so flooded.
Things that he was saying and trying to justify himself was such a trigger for me.
I couldn't hear anything.
And so then it was just me over, like just talking over him and crying.
Okay.
And where are the kids?
So Jackie, I think I...
Where are the kids when this happened?
Where are the kids at?
They're not in our room.
We do this behind closed doors.
Yeah.
We try to do this in the room.
You don't think they hear you though?
Oh, I'm sure they do.
Okay.
Go ahead.
And you, Jeremy?
No, I was just going to say, what I'm hearing you say is what is the consistent behavior
when we have these conversations?
And I think we've come to a point to where, you know, when we have these conversations,
it's in a very calm environment.
We're not really, I mean, there were times previously where, you know, things would not
be handled properly.
But I think through what we've, how we've grown over time, we come at it from a calm
point of view and we talk through it.
Whenever there's no resolve is whenever it starts escalating and then that's when the
emotions come in and then that's when, you know, there may be elevation, may not be elevation.
We've done a pretty good job at trying to remove the elevation more recently, probably
within the past, you know, month to month and a half.
But that's more or less how those conversations go whenever they go sideways.
Okay.
Well, I'm excited that you guys get to move on to week three because week three is more
about building and you know, less about, you know, um, you know, just dealing with the
heart wounds.
And so I think that, and here's the thing, you guys, it, you know, we can listen to like
Jeremy and Carla, we can listen to a couple like this talk and you know, our first instinct
might be like, wow, you know, they need to stay like in this type of healing for a lot
longer, you know, and actually that's not the case.
Actually you know, both of them really pretty much know what's happening.
They just don't know how to move past it.
And so when we move past and we start like dreaming together, which is what these next
two weeks are going to be about, we start getting excited about what can be in the future
and all those things.
When that happens, actually some of this will become more clear, some of this other stuff
and it will actually come to a place of resolution.
So it isn't about just, you know, staying here until you feel like you're allowed to,
or you're healthy enough, or you've, you know, gotten along long enough to move forward.
You know, that sign that they have in factories where it says there's been so many days since
an accident, it's not a situation where you're not allowed to move forward until you've had
like, you know, 300 days since the last argument.
That's not the way it works.
So that is, that's, that's not the case.
And so they get to move forward and actually moving forward is probably going to let you
see some of the stuff that's been coming up the first two weeks in a whole different light,
which is why I told Carla, absolutely.
Do not be discouraged.
This is actually, everyone's healing looks different and theirs is just a little bit
more volatile.
All right.
I want to ask one more question.
You guys actually go ahead and just do a quick round robin the next.
with the next share.
Okay, so how to know when you're in a new season I did a screenshot of this from the
reading and I just want to because I want I want all of you to be encouraged because
if you haven't hit a gas leak yet the way that you know Carla and and and Jeremy keep
hitting you're going to and and I just want to I just want to to to speak this out your
your old coping mechanism stop working the things that once numb the pain withdrawal
sarcasm control and overworking don't satisfy anymore okay doesn't make you feel like you
won the argument you know doesn't just doesn't satisfy anymore number two you're uncomfortable
but peaceful growth feels awkward but your spirit knows it's right you're more interested
in truth than blame you stop keeping score and you start keeping promises you're just
more interested in the truth than blame you don't really care who's to blame you just
want to know what's behind it you just want to get down to the nitty gritty because you
really want to move forward together all right and then number four you're hungrier for healing
than validation you don't need to win the argument you want to win your partner's heart
this is how you know and I think that that's true of Jeremy and Carla and I think it's
true of all of you so I want you to be encouraged I want you to get excited about now we're
leaving you know week one and two if you didn't do any of the worksheets please do them they're
really good especially the one from this week the first one about seeing through the lens
because we want to see the way our partner sees they don't see the way that we see so
we need to look through their lens and see what they're seeing so do the first week worksheet
if you haven't done it second week worksheet is bringing you know bringing things in the
light like really getting vulnerable and it doesn't have to be about the relationship
it could be about something that happened to you in childhood it could be about the
way that you feel at your job it can be all different types of things it could be a fear
of never having the money to retire you know it could be anything that you just really
want to just bring into the light and then sit with each other and really you know diffuse
the bombs the lies bring the truth in light a candle I I think you should do all of those
things as a as a prophetic activation and then so do that work but now we're going to
go into some building we're going to go into some dreaming we're going to go into some
building we're going to go into hey why did God bring us together what is the future look
like how can we build on this foundation that may feel like it's a little shaky still but
God is the best contractor and he is filling in the cracks even as we go forward and so
I just really want to encourage all of you to to really be hopeful in that it's exciting
it's exciting stuff all right okay well we're at time for tonight I want to keep you longer
because I don't I want to respect everyone's time but the week three will be up it like
I said it got somehow just disappeared David was trying to do something to it and then
it just disappeared but the instructions for week three will be up here in the next couple
hours and you guys can get started on the reading and on the worksheets and on the activations
for that and father we just thank you Lord that you are doing a deep deep work inside
of all of us individually and together as couples because we've been brought together
for lineage and legacy and this matters to you marriage and family matters to you and
our marriages our partnerships matter to you and you have promises and you have processes
for all of us and so Lord give us grace in the process but give us hope for the promise
in Jesus name amen all right friends I'll see you and you guys can post just like Carla
did in the group because I will come through and I will respond
And so if you have anything that you want to ask or post in the group, please do so.
OK, and I'll see you soon. Bye, everyone.