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I'm married to David as my husband. We have three children. William who's 20, Stephen who's 19,

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and Carolina who is 15. And Stephen is my business partner. He's my middle son. He travels with me

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to China and he's sort of the background guy to e-lux sourcing. So if you ever see some feeds from

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me from when I'm in China, you might see Stephen with me there as well. So yeah, I live in Washington.

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I have a background with rainmakers. I joined in June of 2020 at the height of the pandemic when

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all of us were sitting at home wondering what to do with our lives. And my husband was good morning

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Heather. Welcome to the group chat today. My husband and my middle son Stephen were stranded

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in Australia. They were there for eight months. They weren't allowed to leave the country because

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they are also Australian citizens. And so the borders closed and citizens weren't allowed to leave.

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And so during that time, I was sort of doing this, hmm, what should I do with all my time?

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And in my heart of hearts, I'd always wanted to start a business. I didn't even know really

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what that meant, but it was on my heart. And so I thought, well, I'm just going to hop into my

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best friend Google. This is before, you know, chat GPT. And my old best friend, Google, and I'm just

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going to like, you know, work at home moms, stay at home moms, online businesses, put a bunch of

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stuff into Google and out came this opportunity to join rainmakers. So I kind of went through

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like this challenge. They had a week long challenge at the time. And at the end, I hummed and hot about

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it. And then I decided I'm going to join rainmakers. And so off I went to start my Amazon business.

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And right away, got into sourcing, started thinking about looking for product ideas,

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hopping into all the tools that were sort of introduced to us like helium 10. And I went

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through their course as well, which is an amazing course to go through if you haven't done it already.

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And I decided I was going to sell, there was a keyword on Amazon that was a really great opportunity

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for me. And it was world map tapestries. And so I'd always had a heart for the nations. I left to

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travel. I just, yeah, so it just sort of like, you know, I had this like excitement about it. And so

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off I went learning how to source on my own. I didn't use a sourcing company at the time. Gene

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sourcing was the only sourcing group that was offered to us. And I thought, you know, I'm sort

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of one of these people that likes to try and figure it out on my own. So off I went, you know,

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contacting sourcing companies and ordering all sorts of samples. And, you know, by October 1st,

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so I joined June of 2020 and by October 1st, I did my first launch and I launched five tapestries

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that I had designed on my own and did all of that. And, you know, anyhow, it was a big long process.

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And then I went straight into designing my second product. And this is long before we

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talked about building brands and having products that sort of like would feed off of each other

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to help lift each other up, right? So I went off to make stencils. So like crafting stencils

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and I designed these amazing stencils and I had all sorts of those going on and found an amazing

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mom and pops factory actually. It was sometimes, you know, going for the factory that produces

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for large brands like Costco or Disney or, you know, you name it Walmart. But sometimes going,

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it just depends, you know, and I found that after a lot of searching, I found this mom and pops

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like a family owned factory. They had 20 employees, so it wasn't huge, but they made the most amazing

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stencils for me. So anyhow, that was kind of my like the beginning of my production era with

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sourcing and getting things onto Amazon, which always has its own challenges. But that's not

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what we're here to talk about today. I do have a little bit of experience in overcoming some of

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those hurdles that you experience with Amazon. So if you ever want to reach out to me privately

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and say, hey, I've come up to this roadblock and I need some advice, I can help with that as well.

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Well, maybe not that I can put you in the right direction. I can show you where to find the answer.

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So the whole journey just comes with all sorts of triumphs and all sorts of challenges. But I think

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I think the most--

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able to figure something out. And I would say that learning how to source has ultimately become my

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number one thing, but you know, being able to launch a product. Now I know how to do it. Like,

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I figured it out. And in the future, if I ever have more ideas, I know exactly how to go down

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that route and figure out all of those things that come with launching new products and brands.

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But sourcing is my main, main thing now. So and teaching people how to source and get those tools

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in their hands so that they know they're making that the right decisions in that moment. That's

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what I love to do. So ultimately, I became by January at the next year. So about six months later,

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I became a coach within Rainmakers. And I coached for years. I was in the phase one, phase two

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sort of realm, which was in sort of like product, like looking for doing product research and looking

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for opportunities on Amazon and off Amazon. Good opportunities for people to start thinking

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about how they were going to create products. And so and then product innovation design and

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ultimately sourcing. So I had some great years with Rainmakers. And so I know all of you joined

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at a different time than I did. But hopefully you've come on today and you're looking for some

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advice about sourcing or you've got some questions about where you're at with your products. Or maybe

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you don't have a product yet. So that's what we're here to talk about today. I do have my trip to

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China coming up in three weeks. I'm super excited about it. I, yeah, I'll be gone for about two and

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half weeks to China. Then I move on to Australia. I'm going back to I was in Australia last month.

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I'm going back to Australia because I've gotten to a point in my business where I can start sourcing

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for companies. And there's some companies in Australia that are using my services. So anyhow,

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that's where things are at. And I'm just going to open the floor and I'll start with one person.

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And then maybe you can tag the next person and just maybe take 30 seconds, 45 seconds to tell me

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where you're at. I'll take a couple of notes and then we'll sort of circle back and hopefully

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we see some like themes that are going on amongst ourselves and we can address a number of issues

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at the same time. So welcome again. I didn't get to say hello while Heather is here and Lisa as

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well. So welcome right now. I just gave a little introduction about myself and we're going to

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tag team each other just to sort of see why why did you come on this call today and how can I help

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you? And then I'll talk a little bit about my sourcing and opportunity later in the call. So

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I'm going to start with Margot. Hi, Randon. I actually didn't know that you were on today.

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So here we are. Yeah, but that's fine because so I joined Rainmakers about two years ago

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and started out pursuing an Amazon product. I just recently completed my product is like

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still in development. I do I have been working with a supplier in China and I haven't got a sample

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yet. Okay. And then in November, I jumped into the business accelerator and kind of took a different

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direction, not like completely different but slightly different and was going a little bit

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more towards like digital products because I already have a network marketing business.

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So in order to I felt in order to get the most out of the business

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business accelerator, it made the most sense to use a business that I already had established

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as opposed to one that didn't have a product or anything yet. So I kind of went on a slightly

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different track and I am now actually thinking about circling back and getting the physical product.

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Completed. So I'm working on it's a journal. So it's a paper product and I'm working on

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the design and working. I did have a I do have a supplier that I've been talking to and working

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with. It was a done for you product back when they used to do those. So I have all the research

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and everything behind it, which is great. What kind of what specific journal is it so I can

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understand. It was in the category of mental health journal. I think I was going to specifically call

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it like a growth journal. So okay with some like pages for free writing and then also pages where

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there's like guided like prompts and things like that. So I'm in the kind of still in the middle of

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Designing that I think where I'm at right now

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because I'm worried about the cost of importing.

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Like I'm worried that it's exponentially larger

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than it was when I first started looking into this.

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- Yeah.

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- So I get a little bit caught up in that.

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- I have a solution for that and we can talk about that.

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Just remind me when we come back to you

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to also talk because this will help everybody

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that's listening today.

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If you plan on sourcing from China,

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you're gonna wanna hear what I have to say.

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So it's not as scary as you think.

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And we can, there's a lot of noise, right?

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And there's a lot of conversations about the taxes

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and tariffs and complications,

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but I am still seeing successful Amazon sellers

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importing products into the US, Australia,

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South Africa, different places without any hassles whatsoever.

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Tariffs are, it's basically tariff-free still,

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even though the country has declared that we,

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the de minimis, de minim,

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I think that's what it's called, de minimis tax,

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which was like if your shipment is under $900,

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say or $800, then it's tax-free.

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And so we can still operate under that de minimis.

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They're not going after the people

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that are importing underneath that law.

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They're going after the people who are producing

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massive quantities of high-end,

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not high-end, high-ticket, high-price items.

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So think about like computers, car parts,

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all of that kind of stuff.

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So we're not really after us moms and pops

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who are, you know, our shipments worth,

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you know, aren't worth that much.

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And so I do have a shipping connection

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if anyone is interested in using their services

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and they have a guarantee from the port.

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Now this sounds kind of scary, but in the last,

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it was last April that the tariffs,

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so it's been in here, the tariffs jumped to 150%.

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Do you remember that big announcement?

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And I was doing my trip.

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It happened like weeks before I was leaving for China

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and everybody bailed on my trip, all but three people bailed.

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They were like, we're not doing the 150%.

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But I have connections in China

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and I have someone whose shipping company will promise us

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that they've never had to fulfill on their promise yet.

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It's been a year that if for some reason,

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our shipments are seized at the port,

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now it's going to be the port in China.

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Okay, if they're seized, this shipping company

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will do a full refund of the value of our shipment.

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So it's a great promise.

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And I wouldn't say this.

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I wouldn't even like do business with these people

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if I didn't know them and I hadn't traveled with them.

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So I've met this company, not the shipping company,

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but the connection between me and the shipping company.

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I've now traveled in the US with this company

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and I've taken many, many people on tours

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to this company's factory.

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And so I know them very well.

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I went and represented their company,

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had a big convention in Las Vegas

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and we went to the Grand Canyon Zion National Park

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to, I don't know what that great big dam is down there.

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And I don't know why I can't remember that right now,

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but so it's a very good and solid contact for you.

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So if you have those concerns,

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I think I can mitigate some of the fear

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that comes with how much you're going to manufacture

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a product for, but sometimes a surprise

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comes on the other end, right?

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And we want to try to eliminate those surprises

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so that you can always have a Hoover Dam, thank you.

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Thank you very much.

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I was like, what's the name of that one?

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Appreciate that.

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Yeah, we just want to eliminate surprises along the way,

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mitigate risk and make sure that we have

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the least resistant path to success when possible, right?

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So do you want to take the next person in for a conversation?

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Sure, Lisa, you're the next one, Mazata.

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You're the one on my, in my line up.

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Hi, Lisa.

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Hey there.

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And I got to run to another quick meeting in 10 minutes,

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but anyway, hi.

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Where I'm at right now, you know, it's obviously, okay.

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So the journey of the Amazon seller, right?

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You're like, am I making, why aren't I making money?

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I'm spending so much money on PPC.

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Should I quit, blah, blah, blah, you know, or do I double down?

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You know, so this morning,

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if you're just asking where I'm at today,

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so I just shipped like 2,500 units.

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So this morning I just had a pitch from ecompcy because they were talking to me about doing my taking over my Amazon PPC and my TikTok and doing TikTok shop for me where they make all the content and it actually, and then I had a meeting with Trivium right after and they told me that this was a really good quote but this quote kind of blew my socks off.

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Because I already use Sophie Society for PPC and they're a thousand bucks a month, and this ecompcy wants 3500 bucks a month, plus 50 to 100 samples for TikTok to send influencers, and then add spend on top of that so it's like, I'm having like a big

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like whoa, like, can this, and I guess what what I need next is more of like a CFO mind to help me look at their proposal and see how much my sales would need to get to

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is because I've been told before the profit margin on this product isn't worth scaling it.

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Can you let everyone know what your product is my products to cookbook stand I think most people here know me.

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I have a I have two cookbook stands I have another variation that are ready to launch.

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So, but I finally have this supply chain in place I have limited time so, because I work full time. So it's like how do I sell more cookbook stands to pay off my dad and ideally make money.

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So I can go to China with you and find more products to grow my brand.

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You asked you is a commcy and trivia part is trivia I'm offering the same package.

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He said that they would be over $4,500 a month, and he said it sounded like what he comes he was offering me was really great for all the TikTok stuff that they were going to do because he said basically they're going to do all the content and influencer outreach.

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And I don't have to do any content which I'm like sweet but that also too means like how good is the content going to be.

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But you get a weekly meeting with them and a team of like four or five people and I know who did you meet with.

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I met with the owner of Ben Chenzo. Yeah, he was great. I mean, so you know I've traveled the world with Ben Chen so.

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Okay, okay. Australia, I've been to China, Ben.

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I was very impressed.

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Yeah, so I know Ben Chenzo well, and so speaking from a person, just like person to person, I love Enchanzo.

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He is a genuine person. You could take him out his word. I think that everything.

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You know, when you choose to hire someone to do your work for you, you have to have a trust relationship and I don't know Trivium.

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They make us for years, but I've never used them. I've never spoken with them.

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So I can only speak to be calm seeing Ben Chenzo and I have done a lot of work, a lot of work, I've traveled to Mexico with it.

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I'd like a we've been.

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So I love him. I adore him. He's a sweet person. I think he always has your best interest in part.

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I do think that that's a lot of money to spend every month. And so you have to, like you said, have the CFO hat on during this decision and decide.

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And what you could also, I mean, his recommendation is what he believes is best for you in your situation.

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You could also go back to him and ask him, Hey, is there like, like more of an intro package?

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Like if you're just not comfortable spending that much, but is there like an intro package? Like, is there something we could try for eight weeks?

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Maybe, you know, how it is sometimes an algorithm just takes time to keep in and dial in the TikTok just yet, like get Amazon up to far and then maybe, but maybe where it's at too.

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And that what I really liked about them too is like they're going to tailor the Amazon campaigns to what's going on in TikTok.

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So if there's a video going pumping, you know, they're going to marry that together and you could get lucky with them.

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Good to get lucky with one real and sell out.

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like I said, I need, uh, I mean, I guess that would be my next recommendation or a question

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is, do you have anybody you would recommend that could help me through that CFO kind of

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logic? Like, what does my breaky or like, how many do I need to sell to make this worth

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it? I would actually go back to Vincenzo and make him do the math. Okay. Cool. I proved

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to me like, oh, okay. I mean, in his mind, he's going to know how that works. Like he's

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going to know the number of years. Yeah. Like here's my landed cost, like, exactly. You

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feed him the information. Tell me where's my break even point. And, um, you know, I think

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that that's good homework for him to do. Okay. Cool. Yeah. He said he was going to send

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me stuff like today. He just did my audit and was showing me where the opportunities were.

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But like, again, if I can, I have the manufacturer in place finally. And if I can do the sales,

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like, and this is in, in the grand scheme of things, not a lot of money. If I'm selling

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30 grand a month, you know, so like that's, that's exciting.

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Yeah. So my recommendation, if people ever ask me and they have the finances and the

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means to be able to work with someone, he is always my first recommendation. Okay. And

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maybe I have traveled to many continents with him. I've been in lots of Amazon conferences

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with him and had lots of meals and just, I call him a friend. Okay. Well, that's really

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good to know. I'm so happy you were on this fall today. Yeah. Yeah. It feels meant to

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be now, you know, I'm talking to you through the burning bush. And anybody who was on mindset

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Monday yesterday, I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm going to increase a better

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day. No, I'm going to increase my expenses. Yeah. Yeah. You and please do say hello for

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me. I will. Okay. Yeah. I'll shoot you off some photos of Ench Enzo and I having fun

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in different countries. Yeah. He's a, he's a fun guy. Yeah. So then with him through a

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lot of things. So yeah. Anyhow, well, I'm so glad you made it on the call today. Um, your

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next to tag team, tag team the next person. I don't know if she's waiting. Okay. I'll

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just, I'll, do you want to take someone else? Oh, I'm sorry. I got to jump to another meeting.

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I'm just going to problem for now. Great to talk to you. Stay in touch. And if I can

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help you while I'm in China, please reach out and let me know. It's a good time to collect

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your next product. All right. Linda, your next. Okay. So where I am to two things. What

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I just, is your husband in a different business of his own or he does his own job and my husband

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works for, it's kind of funny. Actually, he works for, he's in IT and he works in cattle.

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So he commutes about two hours every day there and two hours back. That's on a good day, but

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he actually works, he's a senior software developer, but he works for Expediders International,

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which is the largest logistics shipping company in the world. So it's just kind of ironic

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that we're sort of in the same business, but we actually have nothing. So when there's

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like a shipping crisis in the world, I might reach out to him and say, Hey, tell me what's

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going on. But other than that, we really don't have anything to do with each other's

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businesses or work world. He's an iron and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm living in the moment.

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Yeah. Right. And sometimes you have five to nine or if you have to talk to people in

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the world, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Those are my two nights. Yes. Right. So where I am, just

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to let you know, I was the one that emails you regarding the product in China, the jewelry

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product in China, my customer, because everything you said about gene sourcing was what we were

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going through. And because it took so long, she sort of found something herself that we

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could work with. We were really looking for the component parts and we'll see how that

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works out. I still may need to get back to you.

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But I will definitely answer your email on that in that regard. The other thing is that when I

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started with Rainmakers, I had a product that didn't do well on Amazon at all. I gave way more

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products than I sold. So if that says anything, I sort of sold zero. So I took everything back.

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I have 470 some shower curtains in my lower level. I'll pack the way trying to figure out

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where, how to distribute those. Shower curtains. Oh, okay. You might want to look at something like

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fair. Fair? Okay. So fair is a company you can, so you got 400 products you need to offload.

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And fair is a company that other retailers can go to and sort of buy wholesale.

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They might have a store, say like just a neighborhood, local, cute shop. It might be a bath and body

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type workshop or whatever it is. And they might go, so you know, sometimes for these smaller

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independent stores, it's hard for them to store. So you see it's because they can't get 20 units.

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They can't get 50 units. They can't get five units. But on fair, they can do that. So if you've got

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units to offload, you can wholesale them on fair to companies. So when it's not, it's not

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complicated or difficult, not too difficult to get an approved account for fair. So if I were you,

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I would take your products and put it on fair and just, you know, they might sell five or 10 units

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at a time, but it's fine. Right. Okay. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you for that.

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But around that, we it's obviously started a business. We have

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zenelle lc. And so now I'm sort of pivoting to the media mastery to gain followers on Instagram

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and going in a slightly different direction. I've always been complimented on my handwriting.

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I don't do, I don't do calligraphy and that fine type of handwriting, but I've always been

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complimented on my handwriting. And I feel as though, you know, I could utilize that

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with the same business in terms of, because it's, it's logged in under the trademark

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of household products and decor. So my ultimate goal is to go through the decor side of it,

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you know, and create wall art, journal, mugs, that type of thing.

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So that's where we am at at this point in time. And when you were on the call the last time,

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I actually wasn't going to join today. But when I saw you wrong, I said I need to get on.

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So I enjoyed your what you had to offer, which was saying the last time about going to China and

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sourcing four or five products at a time. And I know that's a big, for someone who only had

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one product, that might be a big step. But, and I don't know that in the journey that I'm going

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through now with this particular company that I'm ready to do that, but that's where that's all

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my mind, you know, and I was even to my husband about, you know, most companies don't just source

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one product. They, they have four or five products. And then the next line is in line. And so on and

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so forth. So I, I like that whole idea. So that's where I am. And more than a thought processes,

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you know, since I'm pivoting from the Amazon product. So that's where I am more than a thought

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process is getting this back off the ground, because I didn't leave it alone for a while. That was a,

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I don't know, you don't realize how emotionally involved you are with your product. I know your

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heart and soul into it. Yeah. Exactly. And so it took me for a loop. And because I had our other

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business to fall back on, I've been working in that and that's been going very, very well.

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But we have also decided that we're still going to keep the, our business, which is

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called Ile Bella, Bella Yara. Yeah. So we're going to keep that and do the home decor.

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Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Well, you know, I'm going to China. So if there's anything you'd

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like to kick off for you, you can reach out and we can take a look at how, and even with, you know,

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the Jing, I heard you say components for jewelry. So yes. And I, and I have a look at your website

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and your things are not Amazon quality. They're like very high end. Yes. I heard jewelry if

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you're getting married. Yeah. And matter of fact, on the website is my, my wedding ensemble.

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Go there, ladies.

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Yeah, but yeah, I was pretty impressed. I was like, wow, I mean,

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and my husband actually designed and created everything from concept to finished product.

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And we are, we're in the middle of your items manufactured.

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He manufactures them. That proficient, he manufactures them himself. He's an artist of, he's a proficient artist in a lot of areas.

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He studied architectural design. He's done sculpture painting. So he took all that knowledge and now he's put it into his product.

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And that is to our products, I should say, the custom jewelry business. So, you know, he's, he's, he's got the knowledge of it. You know, we just have to get that other fine-tuned part.

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We have our custom custom customers that come in for custom work and things. So it's really been a good experience, you know, it's been challenging, but good. Yeah.

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Okay. Wow. So many different things happening on this call. I love it.

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Yeah. So yeah, let's circle over. I see Lisa Scott, who I also know Lisa's got her hand raised and then maybe we'll circle back and answer any like if you've got any burning questions you want to talk about.

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Like sourcing tactics or if you've got some product ideas that you're considering, maybe we can take a look at those also.

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So we're going to take Lisa in. She's the last one to join in. So Lisa, welcome.

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I see your hand up. Hi, sorry. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay, great. I'm sorry I'm not on camera. I'm actually driving at the moment, but

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so one thing I wanted to comment was the fair. I've been trying to get into that for a while since I went through the business accelerator last year, last spring, and I, I've had no luck with it, but

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yeah, I just wanted to comment on that. So hopefully, and maybe I'll try again, but for whatever reason, I just never hear back from them.

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I know. Yeah, I know. I know. And then the other thing was it's, mine's not as fun as everybody else's topic today is I received an email, I guess back in February, and it was from Frank from prime.

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And it was for my renewal, I think of just, you know, being at my business renewal that you pay every year, which was fine, but then, and another email that same day.

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He sent me an email saying, I guess, someone with the same similar name to me reached out to him, and he wanted to, you know, touch base with me before he reached back out to them.

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You know, for negotiations, so I don't really know what he meant by that and I'm waiting to hear back from him, because I just found this, the second email yesterday.

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So I'm a little like anxious because their core motion Pilates and something else. And I don't know if they're trademark or, you know, if I'm not going to get the trademark but it sounded like I was going to get it so I don't know.

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Do some businesses sometimes reach out to people to try to negotiate to get the trademark like I don't know what that is.

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So, so was prime doing your trademark for you. Yes. Yes. All right. So, and it was just odd that he sent me the email to renewal. And then the same time that someone else reached out and this, you know, I guess from this business in Florida that has a similar name.

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Okay, I'm just going to do a trademark search. Yeah, it was core motion Pilates and physical therapy, and they have the word ink at the end of their name does that mean that they are trademark.

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They're all created probably in their state, but I would say.

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I'm sorry I'm just I'm not sharing my screen at the moment. When I go to us PTO sometimes I'm like well it's all changed again. Yeah. Yeah.

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Trademark search.

334
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Okay, can you please tell me the name of your company.

335
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Yeah, it's just core motion.

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Trademark with the spelling and I don't know if that makes a difference is that it's all uppercase. Oh no I don't think that makes a difference. Okay. Okay. Okay.

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I've got.

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Core motion animal feeds and additives.

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Core motion exercise machines.

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Centrifugal pumps for circulating liquid coolant. No, that's what I saw before. And yoga towels. That's me. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Um, so now tell me the other name.

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Or motion Pilates and physical therapy.

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Is it one word? Do you know? Um, I think I think I'm not sure. Okay. I know.

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I think it might be separate because they were a seat. Yeah, I think they were C. O. R. E. And that was all capital and then motion. No, I don't see it.

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Do you have you seen it when you looked? No, when I first looked, I saw that what that first one that you mentioned about the, um, I believe the machines and then.

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Because I see poo cah Pilates and physical therapy. Do you know, a core motion.

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So, I wonder if that means that they're trying to buy the trademark. I don't know. I think, okay, I'm just guessing, but I think that he might that they're trying to register.

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The trademark.

348
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And then, but they're not registered yet. So, I don't, I don't actually, I can't find them.

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Okay.

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I can.

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One called core Pilates and that is physical fitness studio service. So that's a service one, but that's a dead and abandoned.

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Trademark. So, okay. I don't see them. So I'm wondering if you, if he's giving you the heads up, like, oh my goodness, you know, there's someone else coming into the space. They're trying to whatever I'm not sure.

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Sometimes what happens, I think you need to go back and maybe I don't know how easy it is to call prime.

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Like get on the phone with them to get some clarity because a lot of emailing back and forth can be very annoying. But sometimes what happens is.

355
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Yeah, I feel like maybe someone's trying to come into the space, or someone has sometimes they will write to the trademark person and say, Hey, we've actually.

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So, what happens is, is if someone can prove that they were the first to market with a name.

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So, for instance, they've had an eBay account, a Facebook account, they've been selling on Facebook marketplace. If they can prove that they were first to market, something will go under review with the USPTO and your trademark can be challenged.

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I'm not saying this, but like I'm wondering myself because I can't actually see their trademark, but, and I'm not saying I'm an expert trademark searcher either but it's not that hard.

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If you put it all in there unless, unless I misspell something I've just done the normal core motion pilates and physical therapy.

360
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Yeah. And when I, when I search it on the Google, well, my husband, he was doing his research yesterday too. And when he searched it, he said that it was established in 2026.

361
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Okay.

362
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But I, I can't see a trademark that's lie for them.

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Okay.

364
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Yeah. So, and I would just go back and get some clarification because if he's not being very clear, clear, and then obviously you need to try to understand what's going on.

365
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Right.

366
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Because that can be kind of like.

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And especially because, of course, he put in there, there's a $500 retainer and I'm like, I, I just feel like I'm always dumping money into getting this trademark done.

368
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Wait, there's a chain or retainer for this year or for him to just for him to have the conversations and negotiations with this other company.

369
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I'm sorry.

370
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You can say my face. I'm just like so confused because me too. Me too.

371
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He's responsible for filing your trademark last year. Correct.

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Correct. He filed it in 2023.

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Okay. And you had their services in place last year, say like three months ago. Yes. Okay.

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When did, when did your services expire with him?

375
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They didn't. I pay for it. And that's what I'm getting ready to pay for again.

376
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Oh, so it's still that like you're still within your timeframe of using him.

377
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Yeah. Yeah.