It is Monday, May 18th already, holy guacamole, men's heart check-in, hangout, we're, yeah,
what an amazing day the Lord has made.
So Joshua, like, can you, where are you at, what do you do, like, can you, little slight
intro?
Yeah, so I'm Joshua, I'm in the DFW area in Texas, I'm an ER nurse, and, yeah, so just
got into heart works just to work on some trauma, work through some trauma, and also
just kind of become the healthiest and best man I can, and grow closer to the Lord and
hopefully become a better one-day husband.
No, I mean, like, they're putting in the work, I mean, dude, I applaud, I mean, anybody
who ever comes on this call, dude, I give you guys the utmost of props, because most
dudes aren't doing it.
Yeah.
You know, like…
It's tough.
And I mean, one of the reasons why I lead this is because I believe in it, because like,
you know, like, if you're willing to come, I'm willing to do what, I've done everything
wrong, so I can tell you what not to do!
Yeah.
You know, like, it's…
Yeah.
So, Dallas, Fort Worth, so, how, where, I'm pretty ignorant, how close is that to Austin?
Oh, um…
An hour, three, three, four hours?
So I've never driven to Austin from there, I used to live in East Texas, and the times
are different.
I think one of my friends or co-workers told me it took them about four hours to drive
there from DFW, but I'd have to look it up to be for sure.
Well, I mean, I just, like, because, um, because that's where Jackie's at, right?
Jackie and David are over there, and they, um, they have a lot, they have some shindigs
sometimes, so I'm like, you know, I wish, I wish it was a four, you know, a four-hour,
Reading is my four-hour drive, so, like, I'm going this weekend.
Yeah.
So, um, cool, so how did you hear about this?
How did you, how did you, um, hear about last year's single and all that?
My mom did it.
My mom did HeartWorks, and then, uh, her now-husband did HeartWorks.
My sister did HeartWorks.
Um, so, yeah, they've been telling me about it for a while, and, uh.
Have they been giving you the good old elbow?
They're like, hey, you know, like, you know, like, elbow.
Well, once I found the men's group, that helped, because I love Jackie and her books, but it
definitely is written for women.
No!
Yeah.
Wow.
Like, you know, it really is.
So, I love it.
It's really good, but I was, you know, you know, um, John Eldredge, it was a little bit
like, if you read Wild at Heart and then tried to read Captivating, I'm like, really good,
but I'm like, this was not written for men.
Yeah, I haven't read Captivating yet, but I am familiar with Wild at Heart.
But it's, it's not like reading Wild at Heart as a guy, and I imagine reading Wild at Heart
as a woman is probably similar, so.
Cool.
So, yeah, no, like, HeartWorks, I mean, the whole reason why I had this call is to, like,
see, um, where everybody's at.
Like, the HeartWorks.
Yeah.
I mean, you guys, like, I mean, I keep sharing this, but like, I, like, I, um, you know,
I was divorced for, gosh, I want to say seven, it was five or six years, I don't know.
I was stuck with time, but like, you know, and I got back into dating and it was a train
wreck, right?
And there was this gal, um, I, Jackie's like, you're really good at finding avoidance, and
they're like 3% of the population, so I'm like, great, lucky me.
But, uh, you know, and so then, um, but when I got in and I started doing the HeartWork,
it actually, um, I've done a lot of different, um, modalities, I guess, would you call it,
but like, I love how Jackie, like, brings a bunch of them together and uses the Holy
Spirit in it.
And so I got free, because I, I mean, I hadn't dated, um, my first date back from divorce,
you know, I hadn't dated for two years after my first date, because it was just, you know,
and so, and I was hung up and so doing the HeartWork is super important in every stage
when you get married, don't get married, when your boss is a jerk, like, you know, anything
that caused trauma, like it's, it's, it's a life tool, it's not just, you know, at first
I was like, oh, so you have, it's the, uh, it's the, uh, the tool to get into the, to
see the ladies, right?
You know, the HeartWork is the gate, I'll kick that gate down.
But I actually, I actually did it twice when I started.
Yeah, I actually just restarted from, I got to part three and felt like I was supposed
to restart.
So I just restarted myself.
Okay.
So like, uh, any questions, anything you want to cover?
Um, I just, no, I, um, so long story short, I just.
I got to that point and I was like, I don't feel like I'm feeling the emotions that I should at
this point. So I'm like, we're just going to go back through. So that's, that's, that's really,
I mean, that's a good point. Like, you know, well, but see, but also be gentle, right? Because
sometimes don't try kicking doors down the Lord's not opening. Yeah, don't force it. But ask me how
I know. I just, I just, um, yeah, I just, uh, broke off a three-year relationship, uh, engagement
actually about a month ago. Um, so, uh, and it was, that was right about when I decided I'm like,
okay, uh, I'm going to go ahead and re re restart this. So, yeah, I'm so sorry to hear that. That's
yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Uh, yeah, it was, it's, it's tough, but I think it was, it needed to
happen. So yeah, it's tougher being in a horrible marriage, right. Or it was something that doesn't
work. Right. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, and it's, it's, you know, what, um,
what's really tough is you can, uh, I think be in a relationship or even married to somebody
who's really amazing. But I, you know, once you, once you, once you say I do, that's it.
So I'm kind of like, and the thing is, is like, you know, um,
are they somebody, are they a complimentary opposite? Like if they didn't change at all,
like, you know, you guys, this is like, this is like things that I'm looking at. Like I look,
I look at it's like, you know, are they a complimentary office and not that they have
to be, but that's really helpful. Right. Um, like if they didn't change at all, like if they stayed
in their same heartwork place, like, are there idiosyncrasies something I can deal with? Yeah.
Right. Like, you know, I mean, a lot of people were like, well, um, marrying on a, what do you
call it? Not promise. Oh, I guess promise. But like, um, they could be this, right? No, no,
no run forest run. You know, like if they haven't become that, then don't.
Yeah. Don't, don't, don't marry a potential potential. Thank you. Potential.
That was the word. Yeah. Absolutely. And I don't think I could be wrong on this and probably am,
but like, I, women seem to marry on potential a lot, right? Like they believe. And, and that's
the good thing about ladies in a way. I mean, it's Achilles heel in some ways, and that's why
Jackie works with them to get whole, but like, they'll see Beth, you know, you're looking for
somebody who sees the best in you. Sure. Like, you know, Jackie and David, I mean, I don't know,
like, you have, you know, their story, but like, um, like they built things together,
you know, Jack, you know, like, like Jackie coming into his life brought vibrant different things.
And so, um, because he was broke, right. You know, book is a joke and, um, coming out of a divorce
and like the, like, like the, you would never like script it for marriage, but yet the Lord
worked it out. Right. So I think too often you'll never be ready to get married. Like, like, like
you'd never be ready to get kids. Like, you know, like there's some things where you can figure out
the 2% thing or the 5% and you can convince yourself, but sometimes you, um, you just have
to move or ask somebody else. So you guys like, um, that was one of the questions I had for
everybody. Anybody, how are you guys doing on the apps? How are things going? You guys taking
shots, right? I mean, you miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take, you know,
I'm not, but I'm, I'm not going to do that within a month of breaking off an engagement.
If you were, we would, I'd be like, you know, Joshua, I think you might want to slow your role
a little bit. Yeah, for sure. You know, that whole, uh, the basketball thing, what do they,
what do they call that when they pick up the ball? Oh, rebound. Let's not do that right now.
That's how you get into really terrible relationships. You're like, Hey, she seemed
great at the time, but like, um, but like, yeah, don't, don't play basketball and in dating
relationships. It just doesn't work. Yeah. Have you heard the HALT acronym? The HALT acronym. Don't
make any big decisions if you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. Yep. Dude, it's a hundred percent.
So Christopher, how you doing? Um, I know you're on your way to work, so maybe we'll jump on you
jump. You got anything? You got any wins? Um, I guess you could consider it a win. I'm starting
to narrow down what my type is. Um, cause I got a little bit over my skis with, uh, you know,
my job pretty much kills any, any day of the work that day of the week I'm working. It kind of kills
that day, but I've been stretching myself a little bit, trying to do some meetups for like coffee
before work and across pads and they're getting off work and I'm going to work. Um, and that's been
tough cause it means I got to skip the workout or whatever it is. But, um, I just.
that I actually had two conversations with some potentials.
One of them was basically, hey, I'm not feeling anything
and I think I'm wasting your time.
And those conversations I'm getting,
I never liked doing them,
but I think I'm getting better at navigating them.
Cause it just, it's, you gotta pull that bandaid off.
You can't just, you know, keep reeling them.
It's just, it ends up being more cruel.
She was, you know, she's way more into me
than I was into her.
And, you know, it hurts, it hurts them very badly.
And I don't like doing that.
So it's hard for me, but it was necessary.
And just actually got off.
It's honorable, right?
Like it sucks, dude.
I hate that part.
Like, I don't know if any of you like it, please,
like we need to have a talk.
So, but like, I just thought about it.
It's really hard, dude.
You know?
And I just got off actually random phone call
from another one that I'm dating.
She's actually in the program,
but, you know, we had a date.
She's in the program.
Oh wait, Jackie's group, my bad.
That's why I'm not, but she called me.
It sounded like she had a pretty tough weekend.
We had a date on Friday and she wanted to talk to me
about some of her thoughts.
Cause, you know, how two people can walk away
from a date with completely different impressions.
But I think her impression evolved over two days
and some of her maybe tough emotional things
she's going through.
And all of a sudden some positives became negatives.
But I think we navigated that pretty well.
And we're gonna continue to see each other.
But it's just interesting to me that I have a sense
of that I've got to be very careful with how deep I go,
with how casual I am.
Cause, you know, that boundaries are important.
And when someone keeps hounding you about,
oh, you don't need that boundary.
And then it turns out you did.
Yeah, just, it was information that now I will just continue
to do what I've been doing instead of making that,
oh, well maybe she's, you know,
there was too much trust there.
She's in the program, she knows she's on the level
and, you know, it ended up backfiring.
But we had a good conversation about grace and boundaries.
And I think she's just going through it.
And I think maybe she's being a little critical of me
saying it was our second date.
So I'm like, all right, but I think we're good.
Well, it sounds like you're learning a lot.
You're getting like, you're getting reps.
You learn a lot, you figure things out.
Like, you know, I mean, shoot,
my first date was a trainer.
Like the first day back, you know,
after the divorce, right?
And so, you know, learning, you know, like,
but I'm just glad you're in the game, right?
And you're still working through it, you know,
and eventually one will come through and, you know,
you'll get it, right?
I just want to encourage Josh, since you're new,
like the hard work is just amazing.
I remember week four was my week.
I had to take like an extra week and a half to do
because it really hit me.
It's a lot about identity and who you are in Christ
and who you are as just a person in the world.
And I really came out of that with some good revelation
that I like who I am.
You know, I'm not perfect,
but I got something to contribute.
I'm a catch, I'll say that.
And so, you know, I encourage you to just do that hard work.
And I'm having fun dating, even though the apps are hard,
the way that they put it out there is fun.
I hope other people do,
because I'm just scheduling things that are really fun.
And then doing it with them and hopefully it goes well.
Cool.
Yeah, I think that's a really good thing.
Like, it's like, hey dude,
I'm going to do something that I want to do.
And if it goes great, awesome.
But either way, I'm going to have a good time, right?
You know, like, you know,
so it's a win no matter what, right?
Anybody else, any wins,
anything that you guys want to chat about?
That's anything eating your Wheaties
or not eating your Wheaties.
Got a,
got a lot of,
looks like everybody's at work or on their thing.
So one of the things you guys,
that I'm seeing,
how do I want to broach this?
It's funny, I thought about this all day long
and I'm like, I don't really,
but like, love you guys.
Like, you know, the first Corinthians,
or I think it's 13,
but like talking about, you know,
love thinks the best and seeks the best,
you know, love is patient.
Everybody goes, love is patient, love is kind.
And, you know, we get that.
But one of the things is, I keep running into it, and I think every facet, and I've just
happened to, I think in dating, there's a couple gals who I decided to choose the best,
thinking the best, because it didn't go super great.
I was like, you know, love thinks the best, right?
And it ended up being, it was a legit thing, and if I had gone to where the enemy wanted
to take me, and I hadn't led with love, then it would've ruined a really cool moment, right?
And ultimately, you guys, whether you, whoever you interact with, I would hope, and my heart
in every person and every date that I go on is that I raise the bar for them, right?
Like that I, you know, if we don't work out, that they are like, hey, oh, that's what a
Christian man looks like, that's what, I reset the target so that they're like, you
know, he didn't push boundaries, he was honest, he was kind, right?
We didn't get, you guys, every one of mine seems to be a ministry opportunity, which
is kind of crazy.
You know, I dated, I went on a date with a cop, which, oh, and that's the other thing,
and I know I had talked about this a couple weeks ago, but like, the more reps you get,
the more you know you're not, so you walk in, you're like, you're confident, you're
like, hey, no, oh, you're not what I want, or you're what I want, and then you can just
walk into it.
Like, so I went on this date, and I didn't know she was a cop, right, and that hadn't
even been in my freaking, wasn't even, hadn't even been a thought.
And she's like, I'm in law enforcement, and I'm like, huh.
So then I sat there and processed in real time in the date, which was super, super great.
But I did learn that, you know, maybe, I don't think law enforcement's for me, just really
isn't.
You know, she was a cool lady, taught her, I was like, hey, here's a couple books on
how to really hear God if you ever need some help.
So I ended up being a blessing in it and reset it, but like, you know, you may just, God
may be using you to set the bar for somebody else.
And especially when somebody's in this community, I mean, you guys, like, we're men of honor.
That's what we do, right?
And knowing what you want will help you be confident when you see what you want.
And yeah, so anyways, this hasn't worked yet, like, I just want like, full disclosure, right?
But you know, one of the things that I always, how much do I want to just, so what, somebody
once said, don't be afraid to ask the prettiest girl in the room out, right?
And like, and so I haven't, and actually, it hasn't, I haven't landed any of them yet.
But like, you guys, just take, take swings, you guys, you know, you're here, you're doing
the work, you're doing the hard work, you're unicorns.
Like people don't do this, most dudes, you know, and so and don't, and don't feel like
you have to be a jerk to, there's a lot of ladies who are used to being screwed with
and messed with, with their nervous systems in order, you know, to be attracted, right?
That's not what we do.
That's not how we roll.
Because how you land something is how you're going to keep it, right?
Like, and you don't want to, you don't want to be that way, right?
Be strong, be confident, be in your full masculine, divine masculinity protects.
It's not, it doesn't shrink back, it's not passive.
But it's also not, it's always kind, it's not, it's not unkind, it doesn't, it doesn't
try to force things, it doesn't work things.
And so and like, Christopher, I really, I've really, I've really appreciate, I'm really
proud of you, dude, for, for what it's worth, like, you've been navigating a lot of crazy
scenarios.
And I just want to give you props, dude, because I'm, I just want to tip my hat, because it's
not easy.
But you've been a man of honor, and it shows who you are.
Right.
And so like, when somebody, you know, somebody asked, like, Hey, who's Christopher?
I'm like, dude, that guy's solid, right?
You know, you know, he's learning what he wants.
He treats me, he treats everybody with honor.
He's a solid and amazing guy, whoever gets, whoever gets to marry him is going to be blessed.
And so I appreciate that.
You know, and just, so just keep, keep, keep it up.
Keep the divine masculine and let, let the Lord work on the details like you guys.
I've crashed and burned so many times like, like, you know, it just like, like, sometimes
it still stings, you know, but, but I look at it as like, Hey, man.
I took a swing, right?
I mean, I went for, you know,
I don't know if you guys play baseball,
but when you go, when you come up there
and you're going for the fences,
like, dude, go for the fences.
I mean, don't be offensive when you do it,
but like, but you know, like, you never know, you know?
I mean, I met some good,
some of those ladies have become friends, right?
Like, you know, and then I realized,
man, I wouldn't ask them,
I wouldn't recommend them to any of you all because,
you know, like, and so it ends up being,
trying to get them into the heartwork and stuff.
And that's another thing, you guys,
like ladies in this community,
there's a commonality that you already have, right?
Like, so if there is people in the community
and I would highly recommend like pursuing that
because you have common terms,
you have a common community, like you can,
like if there's things that come up,
you can discuss things, right?
That hasn't worked for me because there's like,
well, I guess Redding's kind of,
it's four hours away,
but it's not really like local, local for me, you know?
There's a lot of people in Texas,
so I don't know, like, you know, Joshua,
once you get your healing
and you kind of get back on your feet
and don't feel pressured to get on your feet, right?
Let the grief process, let that process roll, right?
And you know, I actually,
one of the things lately I've been going through,
the church I've been working with
is I've been going through some rough things
and I haven't had bandwidth, right?
Like if you don't have bandwidth,
I want, when I go on a date,
I wanna show up as the real me
and have the bandwidth to do that.
And if you can't do that, that's okay, right?
You know, I still say,
like why, look at your reason
why you don't have bandwidth, right?
You know, make some adjustments
so you can get to the place where you have,
like you guys, if you guys are marriage-minded,
which I'm pretty sure you all are,
like, do you have a ring fund?
You know, I mean, I'm gonna beat this horse
every single time just because,
like be intentional, even if it's just squirreling away
10 bucks a week, 15 bucks a week, right?
Like, begin with the end in mind
and work your way there, right?
Like, and so, and I know I'm preaching to the choir
in a little bit because you guys are here,
but I just like, you know, like, you know,
as at Lombardi would be like, hey, this is a football,
which everybody's like, well, duh, coach, it's a football,
but he'd start out with the basics
is hard work, super important, you know,
getting on apps or getting connected,
like getting opportunities, taking swings.
So you can find out who you like, what you like.
You can navigate boundaries or learn, you know,
learn like a couple of weeks ago, you know,
I made a mistake where I let the fun out of it.
Like, you know, it got so, you know,
like every conversation started getting like serious
and it became fun, less fun.
And then she's like, you know what?
I don't think I can do this dating thing.
And she, and she got off the apps and I'm like, dang, man,
I wish I would have pulled up, but I didn't,
I didn't think about it until it was too late.
And so I say, you guys, and Christopher,
that's what I love.
Like you're going out and you're doing something fun, right?
Like, let's go do something fun, something I enjoy.
And you're going to show up as your best self
when you're doing that, right?
So, so.
That's funny that you said that.
I said those exact words to her today.
I said, when we do something fun,
when we go out and we do an activity together,
we're enjoying each other's company,
that's the best version of me that you're going to get.
So that's why I do things like that.
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, build a life that you want to be,
like that somebody wants to be with, right?
And Chris, I'm like, dude, you're like,
you're killing, you're crushing it, bro.
Like, right?
You know?
I appreciate it.
I think you're, you're hyping me up too much,
but I'll take the.
But it's, it's, I don't, I don't blow smoke, dude.
Like that's just not in my, it's not in my nature,
but I do love the fact that you're, you're, you're,
you're working, you're working, you're at it,
you're doing it, you're doing great things, you know?
And the results may not be there yet, but they'll come,
you know, I mean, as long as you're, as you're,
as you're working, I don't know,
like the fundamentals, right?
Like, you know, you know, and learning them, like I,
you know, and I just applaud you because,
and I, I love that you're doing it
because we can all learn,
we can all glean from that, right?
I'm like, oh yeah, boundaries.
And oh, people, man, they, they want this quick,
quick connection and they want to be like,
let's be, let's be like,
let's go from level one to three in about 35 seconds, right?
Yeah.
And how do you navigate that, right?
I think that I plan, I'm already.
kind of playing a disadvantage.
Cause I will echo, you know, being in law enforcement myself, even
the dispatch side of things, it's already a tough ask being in that
world when you're not in the world.
And, and maybe being a spouse in that world is extremely difficult.
And I think that that is not made for Smith, just it is.
I mean, I'm, I'm working nights right now.
That's really causing some issues with some, some of the
ladies that I'm like, look.
I want to have weekends off.
So I work nights.
I can have weekends and go into days, but I am not high enough
at CRU to get weekends.
Well, you're not going to Christmas.
No, no major holidays, zero zilch, probably going to have them
unless I have the day off already.
And so it's a big ask.
So, um, I will echo that.
That's, that's tough.
And, uh, I have experienced a bit of that and it's not for everyone.
And so don't feel, don't feel terrible about not wanting to get in the life.
Sure.
My I'm sure Josh can relate being an earners.
Yeah.
I was, uh, I worked on the box for four years also.
So, uh, I don't know if you dispatch for EMS also, or just, uh, police,
but yes, I definitely understand.
Well, and I think that's also like something where, um, cause
I dated a nurse prior to the cop.
We're kind of scary.
Well, and, and so, but I, but here, here's the thing is like, okay.
I'm like, Hey, you know what?
She's worth the, uh, I mean, Trump blew it up because it was politics
ended up blowing that whole thing up.
But like, um, which is insane to still like, I, you know, I, I'm like,
um, some people it's really important to, um, uh, I call it idolatry.
Like anything that becomes bigger than Jesus, it becomes an idol.
Even if it's relationships, it's like, you know, like to me, I'm
like kingdoms first, right.
Um, but like, but I was looking at, I'm like, okay, well, she works for four on
three off, I'm like, that's going to be a bit bumpy, right.
But then I'm like, we can, I think I can make that work.
Right.
Like, you know, it's, it's like, and so when you find, when you find
somebody of value, it's like, you know, we'll make that work.
It should be like, Hey, you know, so I like even the gallon law enforcement,
like, you know, um, if we'd hit it off, I would have been okay with it, but
like, we just really didn't, didn't work jive really well.
She was cool.
We could be like, great.
We can hang out and have great combos.
That was great.
But like, there was no, I was like, yeah, no, nothing there.
And she's like, you know, I didn't feel a connection.
I'm like, yeah, no, there wasn't, but which is okay.
Like the whole point is getting out there.
It's like, do we have a connection?
Now I do have to say you guys.
And like, um, just because I need to hear that.
Like if I, if I need to hear this, you guys need to hear it is, um, fast
connection isn't all is, is rarely good.
Usually that's your red flag, your, that your brokenness and their brokenness,
they're having a field day and you're freaking endorphins are running.
And you're like, this is amazing.
And your brain is not engaged.
It's your, it's your, your demons are playing together.
Whatever you, however you want to call it, like, um, the slow burn is what
you're looking for.
Right.
Um, which for me has been an adjustment, I have to say, but you got, you know,
there's been like, um, there's like, I don't have this like massive endorphin
hit, like, oh, this can't be, I must not be attracted.
And then I'm like, no, I'm attracted.
I just am used to that huge rush.
Um, and then as I got, then as I got to know her, that rush grew, does that make
sense?
Is it like, versus like the broken one, it's like massive, right?
It's like slow.
And then it grows.
And then it, you know, um, and that's why so many people are like, once the
endorphins wear off, their relationships are over.
I think Julia Roberts was the ones like, I'm in love with being in love.
Like she wanted the honeymoon phase the whole time and that's great initially,
but you can't build, there's no depth to it because it's all, it's all chemical
reaction.
So, you know, mature love is when you start, um, when that you still have that
to some extent, but you, you grow in like emotional connection.
I mean, obviously everybody goes for the physical connection, but you guys, that's
like the least of the ones, spiritual, emotional, intellectual.
Um, I didn't know I need an intellectual connection.
So like in some of these dates, the gal, I was like, I'm having to explain
everything and which is fine, but like, it's like, I want somebody who we can
actually have a conversation where, um, it stretches me.
Right.
And, you know, and so, um, and I had a gal that I was like, oh my gosh, I'm
outmatched, which was.
which was actually extremely attractive
because I'm like, man, I have to keep up with this gal.
It's kind of fun, right?
You know, like I have, you know, and so,
but figure out what you, what,
do you need like emotional connection, right?
I mean, that's,
it's massive for ladies
and it's really important for dudes, right?
You know, spiritual connection for me is like number one,
you know, and I've had a lot of really beautiful women
that the physical,
like that whole, the physical attraction was there,
you know, the, but like the spiritual thing,
I'm like, man, we can't talk about things and I,
I'm gonna be very careful.
Sorry, I was about to say something and I like,
we're called to be spiritual leaders,
but like, but if you're having to carry somebody,
that gets, it gets, it gets heavy real quick, right?
And so make sure that,
so unequally yoked,
you can be unequally yoked in a Christian relationship.
And I mean, I've had this conversation with Jackie
and I've, cause I've lived it, right?
I was an on fire Christian and evangelist
wanting to go change the world.
And my ex was a couch potato
who just wanted to go to church on Sundays, right?
So if you want to be a couch potato Christian,
which is fine, if that's what you want to do.
And that's how you were like,
like you're gonna,
you're gonna go work at church and do that stuff.
Find somebody else who has the same kind of style
and mesh with that.
But don't go for somebody who is out
charging the gates of hell
when you want to be sitting at church
in a children's ministry doing that stuff.
Not that there's anything wrong with like
not charging the gates of hell.
I'm kind of an outside the box, outside the church guy.
Marrying an inside the church girl
didn't really work for me, for us.
Because she wanted to be in the church,
which I didn't have a problem with,
but I'm like, we also, but we never got outside.
Does that make sense?
Like, I hope I'm making sense.
Marry somebody who's walking
in a similar path direction as you.
Don't measure, don't marry somebody who isn't, you know?
And there is, there can be growth.
As long as they're moving
and you're not having to move them
and they're willing to come alongside, that's great.
But like, if you're having to pull them along,
just envision that's your whole relationship.
Because if it's starting that way,
it doesn't usually get better, it gets worse.
Because then they're like, they regret being pulled.
So spirit, so like, so when you're looking at these things,
it's like, okay, are we spiritually synced?
What are your non-negotiables?
And they're like, should be three or four, not like,
like if everything was great in this person,
what, but this one thing was there, you were done, right?
You know, like for the gal that was a nurse,
her non-negotiable was Trump, like politics.
It was like, which is an opinion.
Just so you guys know, like really, that should not,
that's not a, that's an opinion, it's not a non-negotiable.
I mean, but like, and we can discuss that if you want,
but like non-negotiable, Jesus, right?
Where's the Luca, he would have something.
Is he on the call?
He'd have something to say about that.
Yeah, I know.
So, but like, but my thing,
if Jesus is in the middle,
there's nothing that can't be crossed, right?
Like now, obviously you would have,
and I'm not saying that you,
if you're completely politically opposed
and you're both passionate about it, that's a good point.
Please don't hear that.
But I do say that is idolatry
because if Jesus is calling you to be together,
then your political leanings or what's dictating it,
that's idolatry.
And I'm not saying that,
and please don't hear any judgment,
but like, I at least would like you to look at it
and go and submit it to Christ and go,
Jesus, what is this about?
Right?
I mean, there's a lot of things where I'm like,
I thought it was a non-negotiable.
The Lord's like, oh, is it?
He's like, or is that just what you want?
He's like, what if I asked you to do this?
And I'm like, well,
so I mean, everything went through the Holy Spirit.
I don't know if that's helpful.
Sorry, I kind of got off on a tangent,
but it's just important to know what you want.
I think that it's interesting that you brought that up
because I feel like I'm kind of on the opposite
where I'm getting kind of drug along.
She's a lot more on fire for the Lord in a different way.
Like that kind of is intimidating to me.
I can hang with it.
I'm not like saying, oh, well, that's too far.
But I did find myself wondering,
I'm like, is she gonna be disappointed if I'm not,
I'm serving in this ministry.
Does she want me to go out and kick down doors
and drive out demons?
name of Jesus or am I going to be too slow for her?
So it's good food for thought.
And I think that's a good I think that's a great conversation to have.
Right. Like, well, and and is it something that you want to do?
And remember back to my previous thing, like,
is she OK with you not you being you and not doing that?
And you're OK with her doing her thing.
And that's you see what I'm saying?
Like, it's like you get to be you and I get to be me.
And do we work right?
You know, like and the other thing about being a spiritual leader
is if you have somebody who's on who's better at something,
if your wife or girlfriend is better at things than you as a good manager,
why wouldn't you put them in a position like that's a good leader?
Right. Like I take my best like a guy at the shop.
I use the guys who are the best at what they do in order to lead.
Well, right.
So being a spiritual leader doesn't mean that, you know, more than her.
I mean, like like Renee, Renee. Right.
She she's got her theology, theology degree.
I mean, she's got what I forgot how he masters.
Anyways, but like she's learned a lot.
So like that would be really intimidating to be like, oh, I have to lead her.
And she knows more than I do.
It's more like, hey,
I see your strengths and let's manage that.
Let's let's let's let's.
Breathe on those, let's let's walk through those, let's let's
let me shelter and and and blow wind
and put wind beneath your sails
and like you lead there and I'll lead where I'll lead in my
in my realm and you lead in your own.
Does it because there is that helpful?
Yeah, and I think that
I can say, like I said earlier, you kind of got to walk that out.
She wants to always get super serious, super spiritual.
And we talk about like not establishing that spiritual connection too early.
It's kind of like a physical intimacy kind of thing.
Like, oh, yeah, no, we're both very like on fire for God.
But not everything we do has to be the most serious
God conversation we've ever had in our lives.
Let's dig down deep and bring up.
That's like, no, can we just have dinner and talk about who we are?
What do you like to do on a weekend?
Are we going to, you know, vibe together?
I hate to use the V word, but I just did.
But I mean, it's like I mean, and Christopher, like I'm kind of bad at that
because I'm like, hey, so what are the let's let's probe the end,
like the universe and like the whole the spirit realm and all that.
But but to your point, you guys, spiritual connection.
You got to be really careful with that
because it will lead to physical connection.
Like, you know, you have to have really good boundaries on that.
And like you say, Christopher, I love how you brought that up.
It's like, hey, let's we can we can talk about the mysteries of the universe later.
Let's just let's just hang out and have some fun
because we're trying to develop, figure out who whether we fit or not.
So getting into.
I don't know, ascending into heaven together
would be is it would be a great if you can do it, great.
But like that's a great marriage thing, dating early on, not a good plan.
But knowing that you can do it together, that's helpful.
It's like, hey, hey, we can do we can we can mesh in that way.
But not right now.
And not until we get more commitment and get farther along.
You know, so but but like we can't get farther along
if we're not talking about what we're doing and what we like and who we are.
And, you know, so.
If you guys I want to challenge you in a way, like I think this is this is good.
I mean, you should have already done this already,
but like go through your non-negotiables again.
Right, like what am I looking for spiritually?
I mean, you guys like.
You know, physical always seems to trump everything else,
but like I have a couple of gals who snuck up on me, right,
like like and which surprised me.
And and then I was like, oh, you know what, they're attractive.
But like they were more spiritually attractive and emotional.
They're emotional.
And so like it's it's it's intellectually.
So like make sure that you have the whole gamut, not just the one
that draws you initially, because that's kind of a hollow connection.
Does that make sense?
Where like, you know, you're looking at building a relationship
and you need all the four pillars, the emotional, the spiritual,
the physical and.
Physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual.
Sorry, I always forget intellectual.
Like all those are important and all those will bring you
or things that bring you together.
And so, like, I don't know, I don't know how many women are like, I need somebody who's
six foot.
And I'm like, that's 15% of the population is above six foot.
Like that's not the marriage.
I mean, that's not the single population, but you know, like, you know, if you're looking
for somebody, you know, a bit of a double standard there too.
Yeah, no, it is.
I mean, dudes are like, Hey, I want somebody who's a 20.
And I'm like, if you want a million dollar gal, you need to be a million dollar guy.
If you're if you're a $5 dude looking for a million dollar girl, it's like it just doesn't
work.
Right?
Like, so what are you doing to become the million dollar guy?
Because most of you guys are here, which is huge, right?
All right.
Do you have a plan?
What's your plan?
And what you know, and Chris is working his I wish anybody else I know everybody's off
camera except I know I'm kind of monopolizing the time I love to have a combo with Mr. Henshaw.
Are you there?
Yeah, I'm here.
How you doing, bud?
I'm doing good.
Thanks for leaving tonight.
I appreciate it.
So I guess what I'm coming up on is like lots of opportunities are coming in now because
the season has shifted.
I'm getting to the point where I'm just ready.
And it's just going to come to the time where people are going to be in my life and obviously
going to choose the one that's the best.
But what's impressing on me is I really need to sit down, figure out what what it is I'm
really looking for.
You know, what's most important to me, because right now it's it's kind of a little cloudy
at least.
And that would not be helpful if I'm going out on dates and I'm not really sure what
what I'm looking for, you know, so yes and no, but how do you find out what you're looking
for unless you're out working it right?
You know, I mean, like so I mean, like when I say non-negotiable, it's like what what
are my absolutes, right?
Like and so and so that and that's like, oh, well, she fits those.
Well, then now we can have a conversation about the other things and I can find those
out.
Yeah, I think for me, the physical is kind of more easy because I'm more open minded
on different types of appearances.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
But but within reason, obviously.
But I guess the heart of the harder thing would be the intellectual, because I'm very
mean.
I was raised by a very academic father.
I mean, he purposely orchestrated it when he was younger to spend many hours studying
so he could avoid farm work because he hated farm work so much.
So but yeah, but OK, I mean, OK, so can I can I can we look at that for just a sec?
Right.
So.
That is how you were raised, but is what is that what you like?
Does that make sense?
Like you can be raised that way, but is it like something you enjoy?
Like for me, carrying a conversation, it just gets exhausting, right?
You know, and like and so I just heard you say that.
And there's a lot of things that we that we grew up with.
But like, I think figuring out what you like, I think, do I need this?
Like for me, I learned I needed it.
Like I need that in a relationship.
Right.
But not everybody can't is going to be a need in a relationship.
And so I think it's really good to get clear on what you want and what you need.
So that way, when you find somebody, because there's a lot of you guys, I have my list
and there's a lot of people who I would initially be like, no way.
But then I'm like, well, they meet like these five criteria.
I'm like, dang, now that they meet the five criteria, so I need to like at least give
this a run.
And I've been blessed by it.
Like the ones that I said snuck up on me.
They weren't overtly there wasn't an overt physical attraction.
But as I got to know them, I'm like, oh, you know what?
They are beautiful and they are attractive.
But I like who they are far more than their looks, which is key.
So does that make sense, Dave?
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm not quite sure what you're saying as far as the intellectual thing goes.
So the intellectual is not that like, I'm kind of lost in what you meant.
So like, I realize I like having high income.
Well, I mean, like Christopher, like, you know, probably like on the other.
You know, like I talk about King stuff a lot and having like conversations about that
or how things work or my mind is very analytic and I like solving problems and I like having
conversations that are that are very deep and have and have a lot of breadth.
I love I love how like David, like I would love to hang out with you and just learn what,
you know, and like because you're smart.
and you do a lot of things and it just interests me and it's something that I've always I've
always wanted to get to know what makes people tick and like and so and have those conversations
about you know I can have conversation about cars computers you know spiritual things and
just have something where we just end up talking for hours and just have a great time so most
of my good friends we do a lot of talking like that so and so and I and I apologize
that I didn't have this better fleshed out to like show it you know so now I hear what
you're saying gosh how would I describe it yeah it's the unique balance between being
flexible and reasonable but also just not caving in and and denying who you are I guess
well yeah it's like okay if you're like hey so how you doing good well you know and you
ask like I like asking questions that are discussional right like let's start discussions
right and they're like well I don't know about that I'm like well would you like to like
or what do you know about let's talk about that right like you know like where where
you can just like have have have a conversation and broach subjects that you both get to learn
you get to learn about their world and like if somebody that hasn't really my ex you know
and and in full disclosure my ex had been sheltered quite a bit in her life right so
she didn't have a lot of life experiences and that was something that really affected
our relationship and so I just you know I met a Ukrainian gal and she did like want
to talk about being like she's one of the smartest people I've ever I was like really
intimidated by her when we first met you know but she could she loved talking about stuff
she's like you know I went to New York we did this and you know I do like and like and
we just had great conversations and she'd ask me questions and then we could like I
don't know how about this and so we could go for you know quite a while on any subject
does that you know and just pivot and and maybe it's maybe it's just the ability to
connect over intellect but it's still a type of connection right so I don't know I hope
that's helpful Dave but I'm glad that you're getting back in it though yeah yeah yeah that's
helpful that explanation so yeah I understand now what more you were saying and I also feel
like maybe I should go review the hard work again because it's been so long like I guess
there's a certain part of it I don't know if it's week three or whatever that like kind of
focuses in on more of being real about what your preferences versus non-negotiables are
yeah that's super important like because most of our preferences are not non-negotiables but
we think they are right like and and I have to say I've pruned back things and it's opened up
stuff does that make sense like you know I was so limited with because of my like fixation on
the list now I don't think I've dated somebody that would have been on my list in the last
couple years right so it's like you know I'm off the list and it's been amazing and I realized
maybe that list wasn't all that it was made out to be yeah and I'm coming up on some real
questions here too now with like there's potential that I may be starting to date someone in a
different country and all the things that that comes with you know that's that brings a whole
myriad of things to look at right you know how to do a long distance how to do no and I think it's
a really good plan to look at the I mean you guys it's good to go back to the heart work even if
you like just just to get refreshed on it right and redo it because you know so you may every time
I go back through it I see something different right that's like peeling an onion you're like
oh I didn't realize that I was a little little that that's been popping up sometimes well like
Jackie says what you know what happens in relationship needs to be healed in relationship
so sometimes you're you know you guys when you go on a date if you're feeling triggered or you're
feeling something look at it why what was I feeling what was going on and then do the heart work and
like oh yeah when was the first time I felt that oh shoot that was when this happened oh no now
that's showing up with my dating relationships oh let's go look at when this first happened now so
like you guys the first date back from you know after my divorce I was disassociating right like
like and I knew it like why I mean well actually I didn't
know it, but I figured it out because there were points of the date that disappeared.
I was missing, and I'm like, what's that about? And so I went back and I'm like,
oh, I was feeling this. And so I was like, oh, I need to work on that, get some heart work,
get that healed. And I haven't disassociated since, right? But it was just, she was touching
something that had been touched by somebody else that caused trauma, which I needed to go heal,
so that way I didn't disassociate. I mean, and so, you know, like the heart work helped me
to be fully present. Because when you go on a date, you want to be fully you and fully present.
Hey Hunter, happy Monday. Hey, a lot, something happened and I'm just growing and challenging
with something that I'm going through. All right, one sec. So you guys, just like the heart work's
really important. And Dave, I really appreciate that you're wanting to get the, you know, before
you get back on the horse or like as you're getting on the horse, do it as you go. I mean,
date, you know, Christopher, I'm sure, I know you're probably at work right now, but like
all this stuff, as you go out and you're dating and you're doing this stuff and you're interacting,
things are going to pop up. That's what the heart works so beautiful. It's like, oh,
this popped up. Let's grab it. Let's shoot it and kill it, put it down and heal it, get it done.
So that way it doesn't ruin the next time or whatever. So sometimes like my,
I'll tell you all this stuff that we've talked about is in Jackie's new book as well. So
I just got it and it's been pretty good. Oh yeah. Oh gosh. I totally don't want to butcher
the name. What was the name of that, David? I it's all modern dating sucks. Modern dating sucks.
Yeah. And so like, and that was, and Jackie made it to be a self, like you can walk through it
yourself. So I would highly recommend that to you guys because Jackie puts together some really good
stuff. I mean, this group, like the whole, the whole premise of this, the whole point is to get
people healed and integrate marriages. Right. So and the heart work is something you use for the
rest of your life. All right, honey, we got a couple minutes short. Can we make this quick
and short? Like what's going on? Well, basically it's fun. It's these two girls, one that I'm
sitting with in church. And basically I asked them about, about, since it was nice talking
and they were nice enough to sit with, I was thinking about at first it was, we got to know
they're local around here. And I, they, one was nice enough to look like a real undeniably good
godly woman that, but basically she meets the criteria of a good godly woman. The other one
did too. And then she said, offer me to sit next to her. I was like, okay. And, and then I said,
you know what, why don't we say, last week I said, you know what, have you ever thought we hang out
after, hang out after church as a way to get a level two relationship going? And she goes,
gee, gee, I don't know. We're busy after Sunday school because we're preparing for the week
because of work. And she says, we'll let you know. And I was like, okay. And then finally I said,
you know what, when we come to this week, they say, they said, you know what, Hunter,
they saw me come in and they're like, you know what, we may not be able to do it. So I got their
numbers and I managed to get them. And, and so we each got each other's numbers. And I told them,
I want to do this just for intimacy and connection. Basically I thought, because I want to pursue
intimacy and connection, and I want to do it for the right reason. And then though it doesn't
guarantee, and they really liked that idea, but it has to do, I don't like to have this thing where,
you know, when you, someone loves moms, they say, we'll be there and it doesn't happen.
Well, they said, well, it's not like they're doing that, which is good. I like that they're
attention, but it's not like they're trying to do that thing that frustrates me. They just want to
squeeze some time in after church. Like you want to start somewhere small, like solid ground. And
I was thinking, yes, and we're going to try and connect and build a relationship. They liked the
fact that I, they liked my idea and me wanting to do it for the right reason, but they have to
squeeze it in too. And I got their numbers and I don't want to text them, maybe annoying, but
I want to connect more. The more I connect more, the more I think I can text and not waste their
time. So, so Hunter, so, so what I'm understanding is that these are somebody that you go to church
with. Yes. And I even went to Greece and Malta, went overseas with them. Well, I mean, like, so,
um, why don't you just like, like you have an opportunity, like, it's not like you're on apps
where you have to like, like you get to hang out with them every week. Right. You know? Yeah. And
so just take it slow. Yes. Yeah. I don't want to just be going through this and wasting time and
say, I'm seeing somebody you may, I want to take it slow and take your time for him to draw it
closer to me. Right.
Yeah, and so and to get comfortable with you and to feel safe and like and about like you
get a chance to build a connection every single week.
And so I just I just want like I mean, they're hanging out with you that you're with you're
sitting next to them in church.
You know, I mean, the next step would be to me, but like, just take that opportunity and
to get to know them, too.
All right.
That's great.
So cool.
Good job, dude.
You're taking things.
And also, I went eight days in a row without any self self gratification.
I went weeks at any pornography whatsoever.
That's amazing.
Keep it up.
Well, I'm only doing it because I'm one pursuit connection and intimacy and vulnerability.
When I pursue that the pornography and the self gratification loses its appeal.
Yeah.
I mean, you need to handle that before the other though.
Right.
I mean, you know, people you think that marriage is going to fix that.
It doesn't.
No.
It's like you need to get that get that.
Car in the shed or the garage and get a hold of that, because, you know, that was one of
the things I always thought that marriage would fix all that like a yellow flag incentive.
And so, like, you know, so you have an opportunity now to work on that outside of relationship,
which is huge because you need that inside relationship, too.
Yeah.
So.
So, of course, what they're telling me is they like.
So for for these two days, they like the idea of hanging out after church, like in a solid
ground and they like I want to do it for the right reason.
But it isn't all going to guarantee it.
All I can do is.
Yeah.
It's just takes a slow process, right?
Just just see where it goes.
Right.
You've been intentional.
Like, if they feel comfortable doing it, you know, if not, then that's OK, too.
Right.
You know, but like but you're taking the thing that I like is that you're actually taking
initiative and you're trying.
Right.
Like you can't like I've said this probably twice on this call already.
You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take.
Right.
And so.
But I would change intimacy is an interesting word, Hunter, and not everybody.
Most people would connect that with like sexual intimacy, like intimacy.
You know, I'd like to hang out.
I would like to connect.
Right.
Like even connect can like depending on the connotation.
So I just be careful using the word intimacy around.
Yes.
I mean, connection.
So you think they would take that the wrong way?
Like, no, the intimacy is good.
They like the fact that I came up with it.
All matters to them is they think they'd like to.
I want to do it for the right reason.
Well, and so you just say, hey, I want to get to know you.
Can we hang out?
And and so and the other thing, just real quick, Hunter there, they probably don't have any
a.
Are they in the program?
Yes.
No.
So.
So so so so so.
So.
So levels.
So they will have no context for level two relationship.
All right.
Do you understand that?
So if you were, if I if I weren't part of this program, I would have no idea what a level
two relationship is.
I'm like, Oh, okay, good.
Good.
Good job.
Yeah.
I mean, you're just a little tweaks and you're good.
You're good.
Just take it.
Just don't focus so much on.
Just let it take time and let it flow.
Just be you.
Yes.
Right.
Like before you, but like also be be aware of what they're doing.
How are they?
How are they responding like, you know.
So.
All right, you guys.
It's a great.
Anything.
Before we go.
Any.
I know.
Oh, Christopher.
The other Christopher's on now.
Joshua, it was nice to meet you.
Amen.
God bless you.
I'm going to pray.
I start with Lord Jesus.
I just thank you for all the men who are on this call, who are not on this call, who
are in this group, in this community.
Lord, I just pray that you help, you know, help them be men of honor and work through
whatever challenges may be before them.
I just pray you make the path straight and that you would, that you would intersect
them with their, their, their spirit.
Thank you.
Amen.
Thank you.
that they would be in a level 3, 4, 5 relationship soon, in Jesus' name. Amen.
All right, great job you guys. Super proud of you. Just keep it up. Keep
taking those swings. I would love to hear some wins next week. Lord,
would you provide some of those? God bless you all. Have a good night.
You too, man. Ciao.