Hey, everyone. Welcome. It's been a while since we've done a love story, so I'm excited
to have two couples here tonight. I'm sure we're going to have more people logging in
as we continue a little bit past the hour. Our crew tends to show up, you know, after
about 8.15-ish, even on my live sessions. By then, the crowd is more of a normal crowd.
So glad to have you all here with me. We have two incredible couples tonight. We have Megan
and Brian, and we have Clayton and Stacey, and I'm so excited to unpack a little bit
of their stories for you all tonight with them. And on that note, I'm going to pray
over our time together tonight. I did want to let you guys know, because this question
came in, we are still planning on having Supernatural Saturday on Saturday, even though it's 4th
of July. The last word I got was that Jackie is going to do a Word on Saturday, but we'll
just go with the flow. They are traveling, but we are planning to go on our normal schedule.
So show up, be there. I think it's going to be a really great message on Saturday. All
right, let me pray for us. Father, thank you so much for this night. We thank you for this
amazing community, all of the people in it. We thank you for the success stories. We thank
you for those that are here tonight to share their stories. God, we thank you for Kingdom
families and marriages. I pray that the conversation would be fun and inspiring. God, for people
that have felt hopeless, God, that you would just meet them right where they're at and
just encourage them. God, we thank you for men and women alike in our community, that
you have a plan and a purpose for them individually, but also with them and for them as a couple
and creating spiritual DNA for your kingdom. And we just thank you, God, for leading all
of our brothers and sisters here that have not met their spirit mate yet, one step closer
to their spirit mate and their spirit mate one step closer to them. We just thank you
for love stories continuing to pop like popcorn, people meeting their spirit mates, and God,
the supernatural work that you're doing in us as we wait and move forward in that process.
In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. So as we kick off tonight, my hubby is not here with us
tonight, but I am going to be the host. We led Simbis this week, so I've already borrowed
his time once this week. So he's, he's taken some time to rest tonight, but I'm excited
to share a little bit of our story. I'll kind of weave that in with the couples as well.
And so the way we're going to do it is we'll kind of, I'll go to one couple first. And
so I'll just go to Clayton and Stacey, and then we'll go to Megan and Brian, and we'll
kind of toggle back and forth a little bit. And I'll like ask you all a question, and
then you'll answer. And as you answer, I didn't hear any no holds barred on any, any topics.
So, you know, we just go with the flow of the spirit. Sometimes y'all will say something
that I just, based on things that I know our people are working through or navigating,
I might be like, Oh man, let's go here. Cause it's such a good conversation. So just want
to make you aware of that. And yeah, so we'll start with Clayton and Stacey. And so first
want to just have you guys, each one individually share about five minutes or so of your story.
And let's start with the perspective of like, what was God doing in each one of you individually
before he brought you together? And then how did God bring you together?
Okay, I'll go first. So I joined last year single in November, 2022. Before that, I'm
55 free to thrive. And at 41, I got married and was married for about two and a half years.
Met my husband at my local church. And, um, you know, he did not honor God or our marriage.
All of a sudden it was like, we got married and then the light switch went off. So, uh,
we divorced and then, um, I, and that was in December of 2015. So I didn't do any dating
probably for about three years or didn't even think about it. Didn't want to do that.
And in the midst of that, I did divorce recovery, did a lot of deliverance and healing and retreats,
et cetera, have a great church community that I was a part of. I was actually on staff at
a church at that time. And then I was ready to go ahead and date and man, I was having
a hard time knocking my head against the wall. And so then a friend of mine, um, was like,
what about Jackie Dorman's program? And I knew Jackie cause we lived in the same community.
And I'm like, huh? I don't know about that. And my friend said, she goes, Stacy,
if you don't like it, then just drop it. Like at least give it a try. Um, and so I gave it a try.
I came in on one of the challenges in November, 2022. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, this is,
I need this. Um, so that's the type of work I did. I realized that I was God defined.
that I was made divinely feminine and so I was like, this is the era of soft, sexy Stacey.
Grew my hair out a little bit, softened up because I'm a boss babe naturally.
And so I didn't, I just, I needed to soften up and I needed to surrender the pen as Jackie
says and realize that number one, there was not one thing wrong with me and that God had
a plan for me and it was a plan with a sexy man.
So Clayton, what about your story?
Okay.
So for me, um, I got married, uh, right, right out of college back in, uh, 19, back in 1980,
86, 87 time period.
And I was married for 25 years, uh, and I, uh, chased the golden, you know, the golden
carrot to, uh, uh, move up in my career and kind of lost track of what, uh, what I should
have been focusing on.
And, uh, like I said, we were married for 25 years.
Uh, I moved all around the world, got to see a lot of great places and, uh, uh, you know,
have a family, start having a family out on the road and, uh, um, then I, then I got transferred
back to, uh, Dallas, Texas, uh, to where, uh, my career was just right there where I
started at.
And my marriage failed because I was too focused on my career, uh, and I, I, I allowed it to
fail.
Uh, and then that was in 2015.
So I was married from 86 to 2015 and, uh, for 10 years after that, uh, 15 to 25, yeah,
I bounced around and, and poor relationships and made some mistakes, uh, that, uh, I had
to learn a hard lesson with, um, and then met Stacey.
Well, you got involved in your, your men's group.
Well, at the, at the church I went to, I had always gone to the same church ever since
I moved back from, from Europe.
Um, I was going to a church there in Dallas and, uh, I was involved in the men's groups
there.
Uh, hearing, hearing about other men talking about their marriage, hearing men talk about
their issues, hearing men talk about what was going on.
Um, but none of it sunk in really, uh, because it wasn't a men's focused church.
Um, but, uh, like I said, it, it, for 10 years, I kind of struggled, uh, floundered in the
ocean of, uh, of what was out there and really had kind of given up and I don't want to say
I had given up, but had pretty much come to the conclusion that all women were the
same.
Uh, and lo and behold, I met the, my, the woman of my dreams.
And we met, we met on Facebook dating.
That's how we met.
So we met in April, 2025 on Facebook dating, had our first date on May 9th and, um, dated
went through Simbis in October, November last year.
And Clayton put a ring on my finger on, um, new year's Eve.
And then we just got married on May 7th.
So exciting.
And I want to kind of just hone in on something that Clayton said real quick, because our
ladies tend to say this about the men.
And I think, I think there might be some other men out there, whether they're here live tonight
or they're watching the replay where they're saying the same thing, where the men are saying
all women are the same and the women are saying all the men are the same.
And you all, we have to come out of agreement with those thoughts, no matter what we experienced
in the past, you know, we have to let go of that.
Every person is like this because I'm going to tell you what, if you don't get rid of
that before you get married, it's going to bite you after you get married because you're
going to tend to think that everybody is like your ex, even after you're married.
So now is the time to heal and figure out what caused that to start in you to begin
with and really allow God to set you free from that so that you can actually see your
spirit mate when they come.
Because truly, I don't think if Clayton hadn't worked through that, I don't think he would
have seen Stacey.
I don't know exactly all the dynamics of conversations and stuff like that, but you know, God will
allow our eyes to be opened.
But first, typically the healing has to happen.
And that's what kind of works in partnership with that.
And so I love your whole story.
I love hearing the little bits of like what, where you were before you came together and
then what brought you together.
We're going to circle back to you in just a few minutes.
And so Megan and Brian, if you all can do the same kind of give them hello, welcome.
It's so good to see you all.
I know, so I haven't seen Megan and Brian and since we did Brian, my Brian and I led
Symbus when they went through.
And so I haven't seen them since before their wedding.
So this is an exciting night to be here with them.
So let's hear a little bit of your story.
What do y'all want to share tonight?
Great.
Well, Stacey, it seems like we were in the same initial entry to Jackie's program because
I also joined November of 2022 through a challenge.
So at the same exact time, and for me, you know, I think for much of my life, I just
believed, you know, God will just put the person in my path.
Let me just focus on everything else, my career, volunteering at church and different things
like that, and really never did anything proactive.
And it was really around, you know, the time frame was around November 22.
I bought my first apartment and I just remember telling people, I was like, oh yeah, God,
you know, like brought me to this apartment or things like that, but God gave me this
apartment and that just kind of occurred to me.
And I was like, so God brought me the apartment, but I was like, I looked at a lot of apartments
before I found the one I like.
Actually, it took some work and I was like, and I also made offers on some places that
fell through.
And I'm like, so why do I have this belief that dating is somewhat different?
Like where, you know, maybe I do have to like talk to a few houses or apartments or like,
maybe you do sometimes step into something and you're like, you know what, that's not
the right fit.
Like I'm gonna step back into something else.
So that really started my search and around that same time, you know, right after I moved
my apartment and was starting to have these thoughts, Jackie was speaking on a podcast
and I heard her join to the challenge and, you know, something else had been happening
around that time where, you know, my pastors were like, do you want to leave this Bible
studies?
Do you want to leave that?
Like that thing was really resonating with me.
And I started learning all these things from Jackie.
I was like, I never knew that.
Like, oh my gosh, there's another lie not believing or that I've been believing.
And like, there's so many people in my life and in my church that are believing some of
the same things.
So I ended up starting a singles group at church.
Jackie was actually our first speaker and a lot of, a lot of kingdom marriages came
out of it and she came a few times, but mine hadn't come yet out of it.
So I, you know, was at this point in her program for a couple of years, I did the online dating.
I was getting a lot of inner healing, getting more comfortable going on dates, dates were
becoming a little bit more fun because I was getting a little bit better at kind of sorting
through new people on my dating.
But for me, I just really preferred, you know, just because sometimes you run into
all different types of people.
I just preferred meeting in real life.
And that's where I kept trying to create opportunities, find opportunities.
So I found a Christian singles conference online.
And I think before the program, I probably wouldn't have the courage to like put myself
out there in a place like I'm flying from New York to Nashville, I'm going to a conference
and ended up, there was this guy there and I met line dancing the night before the conference.
And I actually were not initially interested in each other on day one.
But a lot of what, you know, I think the program talks about is like not having a type, getting
rid of some of your like preconceived, like this is what the person will be like.
There's some ways we're similar.
And then there's a lot of ways that we're complete opposites.
And they had us do discussion questions there.
And they're like, it was like 500 people there, but they're like, turn to the person behind
you.
And he just no matter what day of the conference it was, he was always the person behind me
without even realizing he was coming behind me.
Like it was just that was the empty seat.
And I realized that there's such a depth to, you know, his answers, like, you know, I want
to get to know him better.
And we started talking after that.
And dated for about a year, and then had a beautiful proposal overlooking the city and
got married a year ago last week.
Yeah, and just to add, yeah, I think it's I think for a lot of us, you know, we're in
different seasons.
So maybe we've gone out of a relationship, we need to heal from that maybe there's things
in our past that we have to work through to get to the next season that God wants to put
us in.
I kind of relate a little bit to what Clayton said.
Yeah, I went through a couple of different relationships, dating, and I kind of hit a
wall where I was like, hey, you know what, I kind of saw relationships as actually, I
should say I saw marriages more like it's just the business.
It's just you do something for me.
I do something for you.
I never saw it with God in the center.
I didn't see it as a spirit mate that Jackie talks about, a co-warrior.
you know, I always think I think I'm in a lot of relationships like there's going to be a self
sabotage, like something's going to happen. OK, here we go. Another fight. So not learning how
to do that properly. And, you know, I think Simba's was great for us because I'm not going
to lie. There's different moments where I go back to it. Like we learn how I connect with activities
and I'll tell her sometimes like there's ways she connects mostly. And I say, hey, like the best way
I connect with you is activity. And so I think for a bit, for a long time, I was just in a
different season of healing, really focused on God. And then little by little, I went on dates and
I started asking, like, how important is your spiritual life? And I noticed like my questions
get very specific. And I was like, you know what? I don't think I don't see people really
as interested. So I was like, I wonder where I can meet other Christian people. And I think
I just started looking around. I started asking and kind of one thing led to another and different
people will add to your life. Some people are temporary. Some people are just a short season.
Some people are meant for a long time. So you don't know how God working in your life. Sometimes
we could be in a tough storm. But I always say I learned is smooth seas never made a skilled sailor.
And so sometimes we're in these difficult seasons and we're like, why? You know, God,
I don't understand what's going on. It might be later on. He'll say, OK, God, I see what you were
doing. He was preparing you for the next piece. And then that piece then maybe led you to your
partner. And so that was a little bit of my story. I think for me, it was different pieces.
My career, I was very focused on that, just didn't really want to be around people and anything about
dating and marriage. And then over time, I kind of saw, oh, you know what? There are kingdom marriages
around. And I started rewiring my brain a little bit. And then just over time, working with Jackie,
I know Bethany had some great sessions. I'll still go back to our notebook because, yeah,
like different things will come up, you know, how we do things, how handling responsibilities.
We both very independent people. We've done things. She's done it a certain way. I've done
it a certain way for a long time. And then how do you merge the two? And that's the beauty of
marriage is the refinement. And so I think it's just a beautiful journey, what God does in marriage.
And again, I think just making sure that you're not looking for a perfect person.
You're just looking for that core, that spirit mate to that gets you closer to God in this
journey, because at the end of the day, you're serving each other and you just keep growing in
new ways. And so that's a little bit of kind of how I've been on our journey. And yeah, like we
just had one year last week. Yeah. Happy anniversary. Thank you. Thank you. I never just feel
blessed, like just of everything. I know some of you might feel like down, like, hey, I haven't
found my person. Oh, I'm too old. Like, I think we got to just get rid of these notions in our head.
And I think just know that just continue to lead into God, be around good people,
Bethany, Jackie, just people who continue to just to keep pushing you and support you. And
sometimes we need that good push to break those walls, those boundaries, and just to get us to
grow and to get ready for when that right person comes, you will have the tools and just feel ready
for that next moment. And just the one thing I'll add, too, is, you know, when we met, I was 40
years old, and he was my first boyfriend. So just to put things, you know, in kind of the timeline
there, because I know everyone's on, you know, different timelines. Yeah, and I love Megan,
that you added that. And even like Stacy, and you know, when you all share some of your background,
I saw some of the ladies were asking, you know, so Stacy was in last year single for three years
until you know, she met Clayton. And it's about the same. Yeah, for Stacy, Megan, obviously,
they've been married for a year. So hers was two years before she met Brian. But some really
awesome things that he was mentioning there that I think is very important to pull out.
And it's not just regarding Simbus, even though that's what he was referencing, but the heartwork.
Y'all, we're almost Brian and I are almost at four years of, you know, being married and my
Brian are almost being married. I don't want to confuse people. And then, you know, we knew each
other about a year before we got married. And I'll tell you what, like we when we coach Simbus,
I it's I'm so grateful that we do that. Because every time I prepare and coach with Brian, my
Brian for Simbus. I'm like, man, we've kind of gotten away from that we need to we like we need
to go back to that and kind of recenter because life happens. And you know, as I was mentioning
earlier, the things that we, you know, a lot of us, we know things that we need to heal from before
we get married as we go through that heartwork. But then what happens is then you're walking in
marriage and then something that you didn't even know was still in there gets revealed,
it gets triggered by something.
And so use, like, hang on to those tools.
That's kind of why I'm saying this.
Hang on to the tools that you're learning now.
And then the tools that you learn,
hopefully for those of you that are in our program,
that you will go through Symbus,
it's really, really important to make those investments
so that you have those things to fall back on.
And so on that note, some of y'all,
you guys already shared a little bit
about your healing process,
but I would love for you to share just like one or two,
and there might be more, but we'll start with one or two,
things that were really pivotal in your heartwork process.
And if you didn't go through the heartwork in our community,
you all have healed outside of here.
So it could be whatever your journey was of heart healing,
like two things that were really game changers for you.
So I'll come back to Clayton and Stacey,
and then I'll go to Megan and Brian.
Okay.
You know, when I was living in the Dallas-Denton area,
the church that I went to had a men's group
that was called the Men of Merge.
And, you know, we would meet every Monday morning
and share what was going on in our world.
And at that time, that was in the, you know,
at that time, that was 2014,
2015 period when I was getting my divorce.
And I really found a group of men
that made the Men of Merge all about me.
And there was a lot of heartwork.
I didn't realize it at the time,
but there was a lot of heartwork done
or completed during that Men of Merge.
And, I mean, it was every, you know,
I felt bad about it afterwards
because a lot of guys were there.
I mean, there was, you know, 200, 300 guys there.
And we were, you know, all of us sitting around,
you know, sitting around five guys at a table.
And there was five guys that gathered around me
and literally lifted me up through that process.
And, you know, I went through that, that Men of Merge.
And then I also got, when Stacey and I started dating,
not even dating, she didn't realize we were dating.
I knew we were dating.
She handed me a piece of paper and said,
you know, this is the, you know,
if we're gonna have a friendship.
And right there was, you know, kind of the first thing
of like, well, wait a minute,
what direction are we going?
A friendship, what are you talking about?
Now, she hands the paper to me,
she emails it to me and says,
this is the way the relationship is going to go.
And I'm looking at it,
it was called the five levels of a relationship.
And I'm looking at it and I'm already at phase three.
And she's like, we have become acquaintances
and we won't get to be friends
until we get through acquaintances.
And she said, you know, this could last six weeks
or it could be six months to get through the acquaintance.
So she gave me the parameters
of the relationship right up front.
And then not only that,
after we went through the five levels of a friendship
or five levels of a relationship,
we went through Simbus.
And that was, you know, key to my part work
was the men of merge,
the five levels of the relationship,
and then the Simbus.
You want to talk more, Amanda?
Oh, and then, okay.
Well, you know, this was the right time.
You know, I see three or four other guys on here.
You know, I had to look in the mirror
and look at what the problem was
and what my dating life was like in my marriage.
And the problem was looking back at me.
And I actually had to eat a big piece of humble pie.
Not that I was really, really arrogant,
but the same problem kept on focusing, showing up.
And what was the one thing that was always there?
Me.
And I went to see a counselor, a therapist,
for about three or four months that I would share.
And the thing that she really helped me with the most,
and Stacey did too at this time,
was that a lot of my problems
were that I didn't use my voice.
I allowed a lot of my stuff
to be just swept under the carpet and not address it.
Because I always assumed and felt
that if there's a elevated voice or a disagreement,
that it's over, this is over.
And, you know, pack my bags and close up the shop.
this is over, there's no point in going any further.
And Amanda, the woman that I went to see,
she really helped me come up with the knowledge
and you do have a voice,
and you also need to set boundaries.
And those were two things that I had never done in my life,
use my voice or set boundaries.
And then for me, for the two things
that probably have prepared me was,
I was always around really good marriages.
You know, my sister and my brother-in-law
had a good marriage.
I saw, I mean, I could name at least probably 10 couples
where I was around really good marriages.
And so I learned that, you know,
I learned about not exposing your husband,
not talking about him badly,
not gossiping, things like that,
and to really, you know, to honor and submit and serve.
So I really learned how to do that.
And also I learned that,
I learned that triggers don't mean
that it's the other person's fault.
It just means that it is something
that I need to, you know, get over that hump.
I mean, we had a trigger today.
So this morning we went and worked out, we work out,
that's one of the things we love to do is work out.
So we worked out and as we were working out,
I like bumped my shin on this piece of metal
and Clayton really didn't see it.
And so, you know, Clayton is, you know,
world-class power lifter, all of those things.
And so he's like, you know, and he does this,
we do this when we're lifting weights, like suck it up,
come on, push through, let's do it.
And I realized that it triggered me.
And so then I, after we did this one exercise,
I pulled him aside and I said, I just wanna let you know,
this was a trigger and this is why.
And I went through it and he apologized to me
and not because of the trigger,
but because of, you know, what he said
and it wasn't this big thing.
And so I think one of the biggest things
that I've learned is short accounts,
like let's not wait until three weeks have gone by
and then talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
And it doesn't have to be this big blow out.
It was like, hey, come over here,
let's talk about this for a minute.
You know, this is how I felt.
This doesn't have, this was a trigger
and I'm gonna explain what the trigger was.
And moving forward, when we're training
and I tell you that I am hurt, you need to trust.
If I'm telling, you need to trust me.
If I'm saying I can't do the next thing,
you need to trust me.
You have been with me in the gym now for over a year.
You know that I'm strong.
You know that I push through and you know that I work hard.
So if I'm not doing something,
it's because there's something genuinely wrong.
And that short accounts has helped me in life.
So it's not just the Clayton,
but it really helps because it's a short account.
We have the conversation, we repair,
and then we can recover quickly.
And now y'all, we've only been married for two months.
So we don't know everything, but you know what?
That pattern works well for us.
It's so true, Stacey.
I appreciate you sharing that
and just the vulnerability of like,
hey, this just happened today
and this is how it happened.
And, you know, Brian and I were working through something
last night and this morning as well.
The reality is that you said it really, really well.
Triggers don't mean it's the other person's fault.
Sometimes there's something that someone said to us
10 years ago, 20 years ago,
something that again, it may have already been healed.
But if you all remember when you go through the hard work,
for those of you that have gone
through the hard work with me,
I talk a lot about peeking under the hood.
Like when God brings us back to something
that we have already processed before,
but it's coming up again,
it's because he wants to reveal another layer
of that thing to us.
So it's important for us to just,
we don't have to go all the way back
through everything necessarily,
but we need to pause and just take a peek up under that hood
and say, okay, Lord, I'm seeing this thing come up again.
What is it that you're trying to show me?
What new information, what new layer of healing do I need?
You remember God is a God of upgrade and revelation.
And so he uses our spouses to lead us into the fullness
of who he originally created us to be, you know,
and they're a part of that
and can be a part of that process.
And even when, I'm gonna come right back
to something else Clayton and Stacey said,
but one of the things I forgot to mention that Brian,
Megan and Brian, this Brian mentioned tonight.
Um, was he said, every person is a part of the journey, or he said something like that, like every person we meet, and even people that it doesn't work out with you all, if we will start to just embrace, okay, this didn't work out.
And for those of you that, you know, hey, you were just talking to someone on, you know, dating app, maybe you started thinking, oh, this is someone good, it didn't work out, maybe some of you were dating for months, and it didn't work out.
I just want to encourage you. If that is not your person, you are one step closer to the person that will be a better fit for you. And I know it's so hard when we go through those things. But I am so grateful, even myself, that there were people that I dated that God used them to help me heal and have confidence that they were good men.
Some people I learned like, okay, that's a flag, and I'm recognizing it and I'm not blowing past it. You know, we start to see what we've learned how we've grown. And God will allow us to see those things if we're willing. And so I'm so grateful for that. I did want to ask two things, two little things, I think, when Clayton, when you shared, um, that you learned that you weren't using your voice, and that you just
because it's good for the ladies to hear from the guys, too. So I'm not not that I'm not going to have the ladies share. But I think this is super helpful for everyone. And for our guys to hear from success story, guys. And my question is, two things. When you say you weren't using your voice, can you expand on that a little more? Like, like, what did God show you? Like, how were you not using your voice? And how did God teach you to start using your voice, even if that's still in process?
And then my second question is, and you don't have to share all the boundaries. But what is like one boundary that you like God was leading you to start setting boundaries in a certain area that helped you step into a healthy relationship?
Um, that one answer for for both of them is the word no. You know, and and I, I constantly felt like I was always having to go be the hero. That I had all the time, all the time in the world to go do what I needed to do, rather than focus on on me.
So I spent a lifetime of racing, racing around the world to take care of problems. And I never learned that I could say no. Or that I had an opinion. And that if if my opinion didn't resonate with the other person, that's fine.
You know, you have an opinion, too. But I would give in, of avoiding a, you know, a confrontation, argument, a conversation, just simply because I was afraid to use my voice. And that's an ongoing process of, you know, sharing my opinion. And I'm not saying being opinionated. I'm saying, share my opinion.
And then also learning when to say stop.
You know, a quick little story about not using my voice. When, when Stacy and I were dating, and most of the guys you may, you may, this may resonate with you, um, I always thought that I was going to defend Stacy by fighting off lions, bears, and gangs. That's how I thought I was going to defend her.
I did not realize that I was going to have to defend her emotionally from the people who meant the most to me, because they were going to say something that possibly might offend her. I never, I never imagined that I was going to have to protect the one I loved from the ones that I loved.
And that was very difficult to learn, learn that, you know what, okay, there are, there are no lions and tigers and bears running around in the neighborhood, and there are no gang fights going on where we live at. It's, it's the people who I love and socialize with that I've got to protect me and her from. So it's learning to say no and learning that I have a voice.
So good. This is so true as well, man. Brian has had to protect me from people in the church, you know, more than anybody. Um, and so such a great piece to bring up. We might circle back to that in a little bit, depending on time. Um, so thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. So appreciate you all Megan and Brian. So we're talking about, uh, just want to circle back. So what is
one or two things that you all learned
in your heart healing journey
that you think would be helpful to share tonight?
So for me, so with last year's single,
that was the first time I was ever exposed
to attachment styles.
And when I first took the test, I had,
I think it was called disorganized attachment
where it was like, it would fluctuate
between anxious and avoidant.
So I think that, and like after we started dating too,
like we read a book about attachment styles together
and like he was testing avoidant in the beginning.
And we now both, anytime we take it,
we've probably taken it too many times.
I don't know how many times
you're actually supposed to take it,
but we now both test secure.
And that's really through like doing the hard work,
healing those parts that weren't able to trust
or were trusting the wrong people or too quickly.
And really learning, I think like the coaches
being able to say like, that's a green flag
or that's a red flag.
Because when you're in that disorganized type of state,
it's hard to recognize.
Like I remember a situation early on in our relationship
where I thought it was a massive red flag
and was thinking of breaking it off.
And because, so he's like a high introvert
and I'm more of an extrovert.
And he's with people all week long.
He's a physical therapist in our houses.
So high people job, introvert energy.
He was getting ready for vacation
and we normally hung out on Saturdays.
And he's like, I'm sorry, he's like this Saturday,
I'm just like worn out.
I don't think I can hang out.
And I was like, he hates me.
If he doesn't want to see me before vacation,
clearly he's not that interested.
Like that's a red flag.
I just remember Jackie being like,
okay, the red flag in this situation is you.
And he's like, not, he's like communicated a need.
He's communicated a boundary.
She's like, if he was doing this every weekend,
like that would be a situation.
That would be something we would look into.
But the fact that he's clearly communicating,
like I don't have the energy.
I can't do it this weekend.
Like he's clearly communicating what he needs.
And then when I left him alone for just a couple hours,
it was like on a Thursday,
he left a voicemail later that day that was like,
I don't know what I was thinking.
I have to see you before I leave.
And all this stuff.
So we ended up hanging out that Saturday.
And I was like, if I would have not had,
you know, beautiful guidance and coaching,
I probably would have flipped out on him,
which could have ended the relationship
because it would not have been respected.
And in the end, you know, I got to see him that day anyways.
Yeah. And I think to add to that,
and then what Clayton was alluding to this a little bit,
I think it's just communicating,
I'll say it again, just like your needs.
And I think in dating and relationships,
I wasn't really clear and what works for each of you
to relax, to recharge.
It's important because again,
I think when you go into marriage,
like it's the same thing.
Like very similar situations happen
where like she wants to socialize.
And I know certain weeks I'll say,
hey, like this weekend is going to be my rest week.
And if you want to plan something, that's fine.
But I'm letting you know that I'm not planning
to do anything this one.
But if you want to do a social event later this month,
then we can pick a different day.
And it took me a while to learn that
because again, you're meeting each other's needs.
So, hey, maybe one weekend is off,
one week could be a social event.
And I think just really learning your needs
is I think is really important.
And I wasn't really clear about that until just over time
and really just learning that and healing.
And I think over time as each of your individual journey
with God, I just learned that your partner
doesn't place the role of God, that's not their job.
You have to have your own relationship with God
and your partner is going to fail, you're going to fail.
And you got to learn to forgive each other a lot.
You guys will get upset about a little something
not put away.
You might be triggered by this.
You might have a hard day
and you might take it on out on your partner,
especially the people closest to us, things happen.
And I think just learning to know that,
hey, we're on the same team.
God has a bigger purpose when we're together.
And I think that's what I see in marriages.
I think there's a bigger purpose when we're together
and I enjoy the journey when you're with the right person
that's going to help support you.
And of course, yeah, there's going to be days that are tough.
That's the beauty of grace.
You get to just do it again
and have God just center you again.
And so that's something that I've learned a lot
in the healing journey.
Yeah, and I think too, just learning how nice
like being complimentary opposites on certain things can be.
Like for me, I was living in Manhattan when we met.
I was living with that Manhattan energy where it was like, go, go, go over books like, okay,
I'm going to this person's birthday party, this person's baby shower, then this person's
wedding all on the same day and things like that.
Brian was on the other extreme.
And now we're like somewhere in the middle where there's like a lot more rest, you know,
in my life, which has been, it has been good.
He I think has more community and more social than he has, you know, we met somewhere in
the middle.
And I think that was healthy for both of us.
Like I've learned so much about margin and like how you need to build space, like, like
I was so overbooked.
They like, you can't be late.
It doesn't leave room for anything to go wrong.
Like now I was like, it's not always a big deal if I get stuck in traffic because he
made sure I only booked one activity that day and I left, you know, double the time
it would actually take to get there.
And that kind of plays into to like so many of the people that come into this program
say they want to meet someone, but then tell us they don't have any time to date y'all.
That doesn't mix.
So if you really want to meet someone, you're going to have to figure out how to make some
white space in your calendar and make your spirit mate and that journey towards them
a priority because you can't just keep saying, I don't have time.
I don't have time.
Now, if you're worn out and God is, is leading you to rest and take a Sabbath from dating.
That's a different, that's a different story, right?
And so I just think that was such an important just thing to put in there because I hear
that so much.
And then as Megan saying, also, you know, your seasons change where you live, what you're
doing and that, you know, even the, the balance, it sounds like that Brian brings to Megan
and you guys really talking through and setting healthy boundaries so that you can rest when
you need to.
And that can look different for everyone.
That kind of similar thing shows up regarding a ministry for us.
My, my husband is a massive visionary and he's actually pretty similar, not exactly
like Jackie Dorman, but very similar, a lot of vision, a lot of ideas.
And so that's one of the things we've had to learn how to really balance.
Because I, I'm a visionary too, but I tend to be the person now that's like, Hey, I don't
think we need to add that.
That's a great idea.
Let's tuck that away for like five years from now.
I don't know, you know, so not that it's always five years from now, some of the people are
laughing so y'all can resonate, I guess, but you know, those are the kinds of conversations
you'll have and will need to have.
And so again, growing in your identity in Christ, your identity as who are you before
you meet your spirit mate and heal, know how to use your voice, know how to set good boundaries
is really important.
So if you don't know, here's another thing.
If you don't know what your hobbies are and what you actually like y'all, that's step
one.
You need to know what you like, who you are, because if you don't, and you meet someone
most of the time, you will allow that person's life to absorb your whole entire being.
So get to know who you are, know what you love to do.
And then that's something you can share with the person that you meet and bring them into
your world and you go into theirs.
Right.
All right.
So my next question is, I'm going to ask Brian and Megan another question, if it's okay.
When we led you all through this Symbus, I know one of the conversations that we had
was around church and selecting a church.
So if, again, no pressure, if you're comfortable to share kind of where you all were at when
we were going through Symbus and like, where did God lead you from there?
So many people will benefit from this conversation, whatever y'all feel comfortable to share.
Yep.
So I will say we've made progress on that journey since the Symbus conversation.
I don't know if we've fully arrived.
That's all right.
But at the time, you know, that we got married, we were going to vary, when we went through
Symbus, we were going to very different churches.
I was going to a charismatic, you know, church in Manhattan.
He was going to a Spanish Catholic church in New Jersey.
And we were trying to figure out, you know, how, how will this work for us?
And that almost Symbus, like that was one where we were like, are we even going to pursue
this relationship?
Or are we going to back up?
Because we're like, we don't yet know the answer as to like, where are we going to go
to church?
And even like, okay, how important is it that we go to the same church and trying to work
through some of that stuff for the, we just moved into our house like two months ago.
But before that, we, I sold my apartment in Manhattan and we were living with his parents
for a while.
And for the past, like the eight months or so we were there, it was a little bit of an
untraditional way we did it.
it like some weeks we would both go together to the church in Manhattan.
Some weeks we would go to the Spanish Catholic church.
I'm working really hard on my Spanish.
I still, I was picking out words here and there.
I don't know if I fully got any of the messages yet, but, but it did, it
was a pretty helpful for my Spanish.
And then what we started to do more recently is we kind of found, I don't
call it like a compromise church, but we found a place that's like
10 minutes from our house right now.
So now we're kind of going there several Sundays a month and still, we're still
involved in a Bible study that actually is a New Jersey from my Manhattan church.
And then occasionally still going to the Spanish mass, but we're more often now
just going together to this, this other church we found, and that's kind of
where in Simbis we were talking about, like the answer might be neither of our
churches or like we find something different and my pastors, even when we
were first dealing with this in Simbis, they were like, you marry a person, not a
church.
Yeah.
And they're like, well, your family, no matter what.
So they're like, we want you to be at church with your husband.
So whether it's our church or it's another church, like, I think it's more
important that you guys are growing spiritually together than that you
remain at our specific church.
And that was hard.
Cause I've been there for like 12 years.
I used to live with my pastors for even a period of time.
Like I, they, you know, were in our family, um, but they've, you know,
stayed connected and are really like, even like mentors to us now.
Um, so I've realized we, and I see a comment there too, that is a very
mature church that can say that to a person I've seen them to do this to
other people, like really, like they celebrate and honor and bless people.
Like even when they feel like God's calling them to another place.
And I would agree that's rare, but it's, you know, a beautiful,
important way for it to be.
Yeah.
And I want to share too.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Um, yeah, I think for a lot of us, um, you know, that could be a big situation.
Um, right away you might, Oh, two different churches.
That's a red flag.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think, I don't think, I think we sometimes go in
thinking we need to get all the answers and I mean, you're not
going to have all the answers.
Um, some of the stuff you'll just learn through marriage, um, and
just, and just no right or wrong.
And I think it also shows like how open you are.
And I think that's one of the things I love about Megan is how open she's been.
Um, and I think it also depends, shows your partner because this is the
person you're going to live with.
Um, and you're going to do life with, if they, you start seeing some of these
things, that's the red flag that they're close-minded.
Um, but again, if your church really, you know, uh, really such a big thing,
you know, that's a different discussion.
Um, but I think dealing with it, um, you're like, yeah, there's sometimes
like going to the city, like, Hey, like maybe this Sunday we blocked the whole
day because I rested Saturday.
See, it's like, see how it plays a role now.
Well, I've rested this Saturday.
Let's go on Sunday because typically those Sundays in the city are more of a
full day type of thing and hanging around with a lot of people.
Um, and then, uh, yeah, we've gone to a different church, which is allows us
like, Hey, we had a late, late Saturday.
We want to sleep in, but at least we can go to like the 1130 service.
Um, and sometimes, um, with the Spanish mass, like over time, over the last
several years, that's, you know, it just feels like one has penetrated a lot in my
heart.
Um, and again, your partner might be a little bit different.
Um, you know, Megan worships a lot in, in her specific way with music and singing.
For me, uh, I connect a lot with my work, um, providing service to clients, helping
them on their goals is feel like using the gift that I, that I've received doing
manual therapy, doing exercise and health.
So I think that's also important how you all, how you guys connect with God, but also
seeing like how you can even blend, uh, like, Hey, okay.
I'll like, I'll sing too.
Like, I don't, I don't sing well, but I'll do it because, you know, you just get into
it and it is important to her.
Um, and we put, and we'll even start to put music in the house.
So it's like being open to, to new experiences.
Um, I think it's such an important, I think that's like the moral of the story.
Um, you know, really just keep your, have an open mindset.
Um, and if it's important to the person, just, that's like something might be
important to you, you would want the same thing in return, um, helping each other
and also, uh, just learning a new aspect of, of getting closer to God.
Yeah.
And just to layer on, I think that, you know, he said it, but like, that was a
learning for me that like different people connect to God differently.
And like, for me, I love like prolonged, like, you know, long worship sessions.
And for him, like someone will ask this, they're like, so what was the message
like this week at church?
And then I'll be there.
And I was like, um, and then he'll be like, Oh, you know, it was similar to the
one from like two years ago where he referenced this and that, and like, he
just, he meditates on the word, he meditates on like the message to like,
and it just, it compliments each other.
Well, we're like, just seen again where God puts like different.
different strengths or things like that. And like, he makes me
think and remember, like, Oh, yeah, that is something I need
to keep in mind. And like this thing that happened later in the
week connects to the message, you know, from Sunday.
Yeah, it's so good. I love how you guys even put that in. And I
wanted to pull this out because there are so many people that
are just like, my person has to go to my church. They have to
worship God the way I do. They have to do devotions like I do.
And you all I years ago, used to be in that camp, I did. And
I'm so grateful that God started leading me out of that before I
even met my Brian, but even more so through meeting him. And when
Megan was mentioning to like how much she's learned, because of
the way Brian encounters God for himself, you all, you know, God
wants to teach us something new about himself in the way that
people connect with him. And how awesome of a gift if you get to
see that through your spirit mate, it's really, really
incredible. And so I just want to want to encourage those of
you that have been close minded. And, you know, God can help you
make connection with your spirit mate and grow closer to the
Lord, and have a close relationship between yourself
and the Lord, and really allow God to guide you. And what I
thought was so great about Megan and Brian's story when they went
through Simbas, was that they were willing to ask the question
about like, hey, what do we do about this? And, you know, Brian,
my Brian, and I just felt so honored to be the coaches during
that time, because of how God led us when I met my husband, he
was, you know, a minister in two little small churches, little
awesome churches, but totally not anything, you all, like what
I had been in church going to for years, and I wasn't quite
sure. And I literally called Jackie and said, Hey, I don't
know, he's a pastor of this kind of denomination. That's, that is
not anything like me. I don't know how this could ever work.
And she just said this to me, she said, Bethany, just get to
know him as a person. And that's what she said. And I'm so glad
that I was teachable. And I listened to that coaching
advice, because it changed my life. And my husband is an
incredible person. He loves God. And I'm so excited to get to do,
you know, kingdom ministry with him. And so I just wanted to
pull that out. Clayton and Stacey, I'm not 100% sure you
guys have anything you want to add to this conversation, or we
can pull out something else from your all's personal story as
well.
No, I got something to add this very, I think very important
and relevant to this. You know, when when I'll say dating, but
when we were going through the five levels of a relationship,
Stacey and I lived four hours apart from each other. So I was
coming down every week to see her. And we would have she would
arrange the we you know, she knew that I wanted to come and
see her on the weekend. But whenever I was an acquaintance
and a friend, we weren't really attending church together. It
was I would come down and we would plan our dates that, you
know, on Saturday, our date was over with and I would drive drive
my four hours back to Dallas. And that was the end of the end
of what we did. But when we when we moved into phase three, or
level three of a dating relationship, Stacey Stacey told
me she said, you know, Clayton, um, if you're not comfortable
with the church that we're going to, with the church that that
she's going to that I'm going to, because I went to my church
for 20 years, and she was she was involved in her church for
16 plus 20 years, something of that nature. And she told me she
said that, you know, if you're not being fed where we're going,
I will follow you to the church that you want to go to. But you
will lead me. You don't, you know, don't that is what I said,
don't make a mistake, you will lead me. Yeah. And got really
lucky. I really, you know, I made a comment earlier about it
is a men's focused church. I was really welcomed and embraced. And
it didn't take me long to get involved with becoming involved
in the in the, you know, the church there by being an usher.
And they're constantly having men's groups, men's conferences
that are, you know,
Focused on marriage, marriage, men of how we lead.
So it was a, it was an easy transition.
This is so good.
So, okay.
Long distance relationship came up here.
So let's, let's kind of shift to that.
Stacy, tell me how did this work for you all?
Cause people are going to want to know.
I saw somebody saying, whoa, four hours, my Brian and I, we were three and a half
to four hours apart from each other as well.
And we, we just made it work.
So how did you all, how did you all navigate that?
I'm going to, okay.
So I told Clayton on our second date, I told him, I just want to let you know,
I'm not moving.
I just got a promotion.
I mean, and I didn't get a little promotion.
I got a huge promotion at work and I'm like, I am 55 years old and I'm not going
to go to Dallas and find another job.
And he's retired.
You know, he still works and stuff, but he's retired, you know, pension and all
that stuff.
So the long distance, I'm going to be honest.
I had it easy because Clayton is a, Clayton is a true man's man and a gentleman.
And so I'll let him take it from here.
Okay.
I see something there that says, yes, distance is a challenge.
No, it's not.
Ladies, I'm going to tell you right now, and I've told, I've told Stacy this the
whole time, if the man that you're dating is not willing to eat his arm out off to
get to you, drop him.
I took, I made sure that whenever Stacy and I were dating, that she never had to
drive to come see me.
I came to pick her up and take her back.
I always drove down here.
Uh, you know, got, got the hotel room for myself.
Uh, never expected her to take care of what I needed to come down here.
And we carried on life as if I, if I was her next door neighbor, because I never
wanted to inconvenience her and it wouldn't have been an inconvenience, but
I didn't want to put her into any kind of harm of being on the highway, four
hours strung out from me.
So.
Okay.
He literally, he literally came to me almost every weekend.
I went and saw him maybe five times and he would come and pick me up and he would
take me there.
He would talk to my sister, my brother-in-law.
Hey, I'm going to be taking Stacy.
She'll have a separate bedroom.
She'll have a separate bathroom.
This is what we're doing this weekend.
Um, if you, you know, you can call at any time.
Um, and so Clayton did the work and he wasn't afraid to do the work and.
Relationships are inconvenient.
You know, marriage is inconvenient.
And the other thing I want to say is yes, if you do want to be in a relationship,
you need to make that a priority.
You know, I mean, I am in, I was involved in a lot of things.
You know, I was involved in church.
I was involved in a women's nonprofit.
I was involved in this.
I have a family.
I have nieces and nephews.
I have great nieces and nephews.
I could be doing something every night of the week.
And I remember when Clayton and I were dating and I had my girlfriends, my good
girlfriends, and they're like, Hey, we're all going to meet for lunch at this place.
And I w and I was like, no, I want to spend time with my boyfriend.
I'm not going.
And that's okay.
And so you have to carve out the time.
I carved out time every weekend for Clayton.
I mean, it wasn't very often that we didn't, it was like hardly ever
that we didn't see each other.
And let's let's say I was going out of town or I was, you know, like going to
Wisconsin, he would pick me up from the airport when I got back from Wisconsin
and then spend time with me.
Or he would come, he would drive.
He would take me to dinner and drive home.
So yeah, the whole eat your arm off, you guys show your arm, baby.
It is a thing.
My Brian drove almost every time as well.
I did drive out, um, you know, I'm, I'm pretty independent.
So not that Stacy's not, but you know, because Brian was still working, he
couldn't necessarily come pick me up.
He probably would have, if I had asked him, but I did drive out to
Indiana a couple times, um, when I went out, um, Brian stayed with
his mother and he gave me his house.
Um, one time I did have a friend, uh, that I wanted to meet him.
She came and stayed at his house with me.
And that time he did say this house, but he had the whole
downstairs and we had the upstairs.
And so, um, you know, it was a really chivalrous way of approaching things.
And that was what Clayton and Stacy are talking about, um, as well.
And, and ladies and gentlemen, this is important for y'all to be thinking about.
Um, you know, what are some.
things that you can do in this next season, as Jackie's saying, as of today, we're starting the
next six months of like the last six months of the year. What are some things that you can do
to prepare to receive chivalrous behavior, ladies and gentlemen, to kind of up the game a little bit,
you know, to go out of your way. I'm not saying you need to break the bank or anything, but like
what is something maybe that God wants you to continue to grow in that in the next season?
And then the one thing I wanted to say, and then I'm going to come and ask you all the next
question. I also just wanted to say, because I heard in my spirit as Clayton and Stacey were
talking, and so I imagine that someone is thinking this, well, that's great for them, but I don't meet
men like this. So if you are on this session and you had that thought, God sees you and he hears
you and he's telling me about it and he wants you to know it's because you're partnering with that,
that that is what you're getting. I'm not saying you haven't encountered people that are not
like healthy. I encountered people that weren't healthy even after I was healthier,
but I was able to discern that, bless them and move on and just understand that everything in life,
y'all even in church, you're going to encounter unhealthy people. So why would it be different
in dating, right? So you just bless them, you move on and you keep going and expect that you're going
to meet someone great. Before I would get on the apps, I literally would pray like, God, thank you
so much that you're going to send good people my way. You're going to help me to discern the people
that aren't healthy and I'll just be able to move on and I won't lose time with them. I just prayed
and had an expectant heart every encounter. And I will tell you, there were a couple guys that
they were just really amazing guys, but they weren't the guy for me. One guy didn't really
know Jesus. He was attracted to Jesus and me, but that wasn't the kind of person I needed to
be with because I needed to be with someone who was running the race in ministry because I know
the calling of God in my life. And so anyways, I want to encourage y'all to really be open,
surrender the pen, surrender the idea that you're not going to find someone like that.
And if you still believe that you've got to get to the root of where that lie is coming from.
All right. So my next question for the couples on that note, the list, our list and guys,
I think both of you all would know a little bit about our list that we talk about in this
community. So the never will I ever list for the ladies first, I'll go to Megan first and then go
to Stacy. Okay. What was one or two things that you had to surrender the pen regarding that was
on your list that you had to let go of so that you could be with Brian and Clayton?
I'm trying to remember what was originally on the list because I think the list got
pared down long before I met him through the program. So probably my earlier list was more
like I was, I tend to be a bit of ambitious type A. And I think I was initially looking for
somebody that had equal ambition. Like, I don't know if anyone knows the app, like the league,
but it's like, it was basically the initial people I was seeing was like Wall Street guys
and like things like that. And when I tell you, when you have two crazy ambitious career people
trying to schedule a date was ridiculous. We'd be like, so seven Thursdays from now,
I have an opening like for one hour. It was insane. But I think for me, I had to
set aside some of those things. And to be honest, I can't imagine like two people that are like
super, and now I'm a little bit like more balanced too. But in that place,
like we probably would have driven each other crazy with those types of things.
But like the list, when I pared it down and it was like, okay, the list of qualities,
like he met, you know, everything that was on it. Cause it was more about like
a heart that's pursuing God, you're like open to a family, like different things like that.
There were a couple of things. I mean, I think it's great. Like kind of going back to what,
you know, Clayton and Cesar were saying, I think it's great that like Clayton knew what he wanted
and what he pursued, you know, and went after it. But I think sometimes if you hold yourself
only to that, especially at the very beginning, you might miss some of the gold that's out there.
Cause like Brian was in a different stage of life where he just wasn't a hundred percent. Sure. Like
what he wanted in the very beginning. Um, and I just think, cause a lot of my friends are like,
Oh, we want what you have. But like, I think there's people that would have run like at the,
at the very beginning. Cause
and you shouldn't discuss this in a first date,
but it just came up where he was like,
I don't know if I ever want to get married someday,
where like he was just externally processing a little bit,
but some people might be like,
that person is not marriage minded,
so I'm going to cut them off.
And like, I never would have anticipated within that year
that we would have been engaged and married soon after that.
And something else Jackie used to say is like,
sometimes a guy doesn't know he wants to get married
till he meets the person he wants to marry.
So there's a difference between someone
who's stringing you on and wasting your time
and someone that just needs a little bit of grace
and a little bit of time to figure out themselves,
you know, what they want.
So just like lowering the pressure a little bit
on like those first few dates to just see,
am I enjoying their company?
Do I want to see them again?
Is there anything that's like a blatant flag
that's something like I should run from?
You know, if not,
like if there's nothing that's like putting me in danger,
or like anything like that,
like maybe we connect a few times
and see if there's something there.
So just wanted to add that as well.
What do you want to say?
Oh, is this just the lady?
It's okay, Brian, you can go.
You have one.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a perfect segue because I,
yeah, I was very close-minded for a long time.
So before Megan, yeah, I had dated a little bit,
several years, and I said,
oh, I wouldn't date someone that had like,
I wouldn't date someone who was a single parent
or not a single parent, that had a child.
And I was very closed off that because like-
And I don't have a child,
so that's not referring to me,
but he was just-
So that was a dating experience.
And yeah, I think you just learn from the experience
and it just kind of just opened your mind like,
hey, okay.
And then the next, like, yeah,
like things just didn't work out.
But I think at the end of the day,
like, I think the emphasis is that
what I felt in that experience,
she was looking for someone to fit the father figure.
And I wasn't at that stage.
I was really, like, I want to know the person,
but she really wanted someone to kind of fit that mold.
The person right before me, just for clarity.
And then, yeah, there was, like,
I wanted to date someone, oh, like, Latina.
And that was it.
Like, I was really focused on that.
I always kind of went there.
And then I said, oh, I don't,
I don't want to date anyone older than me
because they will just want to get married
and just have kids right away.
And so I think that was the pressure
where on our first day, like, oh yeah,
she just wants to just get married and have kids.
Like, that's what, like, everybody wants
because they feel like time's running out.
And so then, like, you just start running
a story in your head.
But Megan was very patient
and started to know where a lot of that
and the experiences and stuff like that,
just the pressure sometimes,
past dating experiences, just, you know,
not just having, yeah, just the pressure
sometimes we put in dating
and trying to solve everything.
And I think over time, once we kind of broke the ice
with different things, from things we've learned,
it just became an enjoyable experience
of just learning and understanding one another.
And so, yeah, sometimes you just,
yeah, don't cut yourself short
with what you think.
Like, I want this type, such a criteria
because Kaz is not looking for that.
He wants to grow your heart with the right person.
And sometimes you need the right person
that's gonna help level you up.
And I think that's all the different experiences,
the dating experience.
I think if I didn't have that,
I wouldn't be as prepared and wouldn't appreciate
and value someone like Megan
because a lot of the stuff that I eventually,
like, oh, it'd be nice to, like,
have dance parties with somebody,
someone who would be silly
and, you know, wanna watch the Knicks games.
And eventually she got into it.
Like, I didn't expect that.
I said, it'd be nice.
And then she became more a fan than I did.
So, like, you just don't know how God's gonna work.
And I think it's just been enjoyable
to share these different things.
And, like, I'm into a lot of the Marvel superheroes
and, like, she follows my shenanigans.
And so it's just great.
So, and just for clarity from the story,
so right before he met me,
he went on a date with someone
that had some things in common.
I mean, they were older and things like that.
And before they were in a relationship,
you know, they were never in one,
was putting pressure on, like,
where I gotta get married.
I wanna have kids.
And having conversations that should not have been had yet
at the stage they were at.
So while on the first date,
I didn't bring up any of this,
he's coming with the baggage of this last date.
So it just kind of comes almost out of nowhere.
He's like, I don't know if I wanna get married.
I don't know if I wanna have kids.
And just how God, like, with a little bit of patience,
to where, like, I, for me, like,
I want a family, so I wasn't gonna stay forever,
you know, in a relationship with something
where you didn't have shared goals.
But he just needed, honestly, after a month or two,
and by the time we became exclusive,
that was a goal of his.
And by Simbis, like, we were both clear, like,
oh, this is something.
we're believing for we're praying for like it became marriage blindness so i'm just saying
maybe just don't just be careful how quickly you discard someone you know yeah don't jump
to conclusions i think that's a big thing like sometimes you don't see the the real person after
like sometimes the first date oh i don't have the butterflies i don't have the spark everybody's
talking about the spark um you know that's just like the superficial love but i think over time
you get to the deep love that's the really like when things get hard with the the tough situations
the difficult conversations um that that's what it really comes down to you know you like red you
like cheesecake like that's all good and dandy but that doesn't get you far um the the real stuff is
you know when life gets tough you know who's gonna help be there who's gonna help you during those
tough times you know who's who's the person like you have a tough day you enjoy being with and know
that they have your back even on your worst day totally y'all better be taking notes you're looking
for more than just a spark on the date and i would say not even just the first date the second date
i can remember on my second date with brian i think i've told him this maybe not he's not here
tonight so no he's in the other room but um i can remember like we were walking into the restaurant
and he wasn't doing this in like a creeper kind of way but he kind of just lightly touched my back
and i could remember like kind of moving like i don't know if i want him claiming me yet and i
literally had that thought and it wasn't necessarily even what he was insinuating but i got all nervous
and in my head about it but then when we sat down and i just let that go um and didn't worry about
what it meant or any of that and just got to hear like what he was saying surprisingly the second
date um after we had dinner we went for a walk in the park and i really knew by the end of that night
that i really liked him um and so obviously we took a lot more time to get to know each other
but i wanted to mention that too because um i didn't have sparks i really appreciated and valued
him i was very attracted to his character and his personality um and he had like i just felt
really really safe and peaceful and happy on those you know first couple dates and then you know
things just kept growing from there so um love those shares um so appreciate all you all sharing
that stacy and clayton what about you all what did you have to surrender off of your list
well one of the things that i had to surrender off my list was age gap like you know i'm 55
and i'm a young 55 and so i always was like i think i want someone younger than me you know i
think i want someone that's you know maybe you know 50 52 or whatever well clayton is seven
years older than me so i was like oh i don't know man seven years seven years yeah and so um but
once i met him and you know he's he's active he's a young 62 and and i think the most important
thing is that whole friendship thing i mean clayton's my best friend you know he is it's like
i have best friends or i it's like i have my best friend and we get to have a slumber party every
night and megan and brian we have dance parties too so it's fun to you know have dance parties
and and just be goofy and have fun but i had to give that up and i had to give that a chance
is there anything you had to give up well yeah um kind of got two two two things here um i'll go
with the first one the thing that i had to give up uh or be taken away from was the um i'll call
it my bermuda triangle that i was starting to live in uh worked in dallas uh i had a ranch
out in west texas uh with my parents and then the start of a relationship with a woman that just
totally blew me away and i i was doing that bermuda triangle on a on a and i and i actually
kind of prided myself on and the fact that you know what i'm the only one that can run 18 20
hours a day yeah still going to the gym at four still still working still getting back to the
ranch and feeding the cattle and doing what i need to do and then there's this young hot thing
up in george or down in georgetown you know that i can go and wind down her and then be back on the
road and and i was kind of living a fantasy
or actually it was a nightmare.
And I had to learn how to slow down and give up something.
And I married Stacy and I gave up Denton.
So you can guess what I gave up.
So that list changed real quickly.
And then the other thing you talk about making a list,
this kind of came back to haunt me,
but be an answered prayer also.
In my previous career, I worked for the government
and we were always big on goals and writing goals.
And I was listening to a gentleman about,
you know, meeting your goals and exceeding your goals.
And he thought it was pretty cool thing
to write down the goals for his future wife.
And I'm like, you know what?
That's not a bad idea.
So I've sat down and I wrote my goals
and I honestly wrote my goals out.
And when I finished it, I threw it up on my shelf
and said, that's going to be a miracle.
And I got a phone call one day and I follow,
yeah, before Stacy, before Stacy,
I got a phone call one day to,
from a guy that I played college football with
and hadn't talked to him in 25 years.
And he's like, I got a girl I want you to meet.
And she met every one of those goals except for one.
And I'm like, this has got to be a relationship
that I want to pursue.
And it turned out to be the coldest nightmare
I'd ever experienced.
And whenever I was done, I'm like, you know what?
I am done with women.
And lo and behold, Facebook dating app popped up
and the woman that met all the goals came into my life.
So that list opened back up and she, every one of them.
And the one thing that it was, was tithing.
And when we were talking on the phone and Facebook,
she told me, she said, I can't be involved
with a man that doesn't tithe.
And I just looked at her and I said, Stacy, I tithe.
And you know what?
Just give me a chance.
And here we are.
It's so good.
It made me think about, so Clayton would have no clue
that I did this, but I was working with a coach
long before I came into Jackie's program.
And I was actually in the bad relationship
with my spiritual daughter's dad at the time.
And it was not going well.
And so I was working with this life coach
and she asked me to make two vision boards
because there were two things I,
like main things I was talking to her about.
It was the unhealthy relationship I was in
and my like career, my life direction.
And so it wasn't just like a, oh, like a vision board,
like where it just was massive like stuff,
but like I cut out pictures that represented things
that I wanted in a relationship with my,
like my actual person that I would,
that I really believed that would make,
like we would make a happy life together.
And I hung that vision board up, you all,
after I got out of that, well,
before I even got out of that relationship,
that vision board was something I looked at often.
And I would ask myself,
is this current relationship that?
And it wasn't.
And that board, which seemed like such a simple thing,
gave me the courage to start moving,
like moving towards ending that.
And then finally did end that.
And then I, when I got into like kind of
the next emotional kind of mental space and capacity,
I hung that board up.
I wasn't dating, I didn't date for two years.
Cause I just felt like the Lord asked me
to take a break for one year.
And then I got to one year and I was like,
well, that wasn't too hard.
I'm gonna, I'm doing another year.
Cause I was, I was growing so much and learning who I was.
And I had never, you know, young, young person,
some of the things I went through,
I didn't even know how to not have a boyfriend
when I was younger.
And I don't say that pridefully, you all,
but I didn't know how to live by myself.
I didn't know how to not rely on other people all the time.
And so that, that two year time
was really, really healing for me.
But I'm saying all that to say this,
I cannot tell you how many of the things
that were on that board.
like genuine happiness things, teamwork, ministry together,
like pictures that represented my true heart
and what I believed God had for me in marriage
is what I put on there.
Friendship, you know, the sparks,
because I do want sparks in my marriage.
You all, I might not have had sparks on the first date,
but you know, we had sparks after that,
which is even better.
And so I just want to encourage you,
maybe some of you,
you don't even know what you want in a partner.
And you're trying to just date to, you know,
to move towards that.
And that's good.
But maybe tonight is just a reminder for you
just to ask the Lord, like,
man, what do you have for me, Lord?
What kind of relationship would be best for me?
And just start making a little,
it could even be,
it doesn't even have to be a full poster board.
Take a little eight and a half by 11 sheet
and just start somewhere.
But like make it a visual,
at least for me, I'm a visual person.
If you're a visual person,
that'll probably really help you.
But as we start to close tonight,
we have like eight minutes or so left.
Let's do a very quick,
I know you guys already gave like a ton of amazing advice
and thoughts,
but if you have one more thought
that you want to leave our people
and our community with tonight,
I would love to hear kind of what that is from you all.
And we'll just kind of do a quick round robin.
So whoever, Brian and Megan are,
go ahead, Stacey.
I think Stacey was putting her hand up there.
I just want,
I saw that there was a couple of things in the chat.
Did Stacey ever give up on FB dating or whatever?
So what you have to remember is I was divorced in 2015
and I was married for a short time.
But for three years,
I didn't know if I ever wanted to have another relationship.
I didn't know if I wanted to be married, any of that.
But in 2018, I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna do this.
And so I had, you know, I had probably, you know,
in 10, 11 years,
maybe three or four short-term, three-month relationships.
And I would be on and off date, on and off dating apps.
I would be on Bumble.
I would be on Match.
I would be on, you know, Facebook dating.
There was a whole bunch of stuff,
but I would always take breaks
because you just have to take breaks sometimes.
And then I would, you know,
meet other men through friends
and different things sometimes, or at church.
So I do wanna encourage you to make sure you take the breaks.
And right before I met Clayton, my birthday is April 15th.
I met him on April 16th, 2025.
And right before I met him, I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna take the summer off
and I'm just gonna see, I'm gonna go,
I'm gonna see about some different events for singles
and do all that.
And then I saw his profile and I was like, hmm.
And he's got two sons.
So he had pictures of his sons in there
and his, you know, profile was pretty cool.
And I just liked him.
And then he, you know, right away,
he actually didn't at first think my profile was real.
He's like, this can't be real.
And so, you know, he was,
anyway, he started a conversation with me.
So I think it's important to take breaks.
I think it's important to be honest
with the people in your life
and at your singles groups, in the churches or whatever.
I wanna be married.
I was telling everybody, hey, I wanna be married.
I wanna be married so that people know
because there are people that are my age
and I've been in different, you know,
singles groups in my community.
And they're like, oh, I'm good.
Oh, God will bring it when he brings it.
And I'm like, okay, you're 65 years old
and you've never been married.
God will bring it when he brings it?
Eh, I don't think so.
So I'm just saying, be real and be authentic
about what you really want if you're marriage-minded.
So Anthony, you wanna say?
You know, guys, this is gonna sound really strange
coming from me that I'm still working through this.
Set boundaries and the boundaries are not
for to keep people away.
The boundaries are to protect you.
Set boundaries for yourself
and know that you've got a voice and use it.
So good, Brian and Megan.
Yeah, good stuff, good stuff, good insight.
Just to piggyback on Clayton and Stacey,
I'd say, yeah, just don't lose yourself in the process.
I think don't change who you are in marriage
and because what happens,
I think we think we're gonna change the person.
The person has a certain core.
And so, for example,
we just have an inner child in ourselves.
And
You know, I love just being a child and letting that loose.
And it's great to just be with someone who loves to play
with glow sticks and just have glow stick parties.
Stacey, the second you said dance parties,
he disappeared and like left the webcam.
I was like, where are you going?
Like comes back downstairs with glow sticks.
That was a positive trigger, like a glimmer
where he's like dance party, like let's go.
And so I said that in all seriousness,
like whatever you guys like, like don't lose that.
Like if you like fishing, you like Hallmark movies,
you like playing worship music.
If that's important, you say that like,
hey, like I like to be silly and dance around.
And, you know, I would love to share that with you
and see if they're open to it.
Like, hey, you're like, I don't sing, but I'll try
because I know it's important to you
and I like growing with you.
And so I think that would be my biggest advice
going into it.
Yeah, I think definitely like have fun.
It was something I didn't learn until like later
in the dating process.
It would have been great early on if I was like,
like days were very painful for me.
Like maybe the first year of putting myself out there
and like learning how like the first date or two,
like it doesn't have to be that serious.
Like, you know, once you're like,
you want to commit to somebody in a relationship,
you have to figure out if you can actually marry them,
you know, like down the road.
But like those first couple of dates,
you don't have to know.
And like just trying to remove,
because sometimes you're on a date
and like it's a first date and you're like,
could I marry them?
Would that have an annoy me for the rest of my life?
Like, and you just go a little bit too deep too soon.
When the first date, it's fun to like,
I mean, we're, we are really kids at heart.
We were probably the only adults that,
that have a membership to Chuck E. Cheese
without having children yet.
That was our, that's where we went.
We went to play Skateball.
Anniversary.
But like just being able to be yourself
and like every day, like he keeps me on my toes.
There's always like some surprise
that I come home to that's fun.
And like, yeah, just being able,
when he talks about being true to yourself,
that's not being like, if there's like behaviors
or things like that you need to fix,
like then we work on those.
But the like, we were both very weird people
and like just embracing, like this is who we are.
And like no longer, like probably three years ago,
I probably would have hated that we had,
I had a Chuck E. Cheese membership,
which I didn't have one back then.
But now like, we just, we just own who we are.
So I think the right person, like you'll eventually like,
it's amazing.
I've never been able to so be myself
with anyone in my life, even family growing up.
Like there was always like an element of like masking.
And for me too, like I have ADHD.
So after a day of like being professional all day,
like sometimes I'm like singing to myself
and then jumping to a million different songs
by the time I come home,
because I just need to unload.
And he just like laughs and embraces it all.
So just, you know, like when you end up with the right
person, like they'll get who you are, you know?
Yeah. And I'll even say too, like, you know,
changing a little bit in the process,
like I'm very used to just very quiet and peace.
And sometimes Megan needs to sing and let things out.
And so, and I think this is where the boundaries
like communicate, okay.
Like, I would love to have some peace right now,
but you know what?
Right now I'm going to focus on my wife.
She needs to let, we call it love.
We let the monkeys out.
Like there's just been so much going on in the day.
And we just, we do crazy stuff and we just embrace
and say, it's okay.
And then say, hey, okay.
I'm going to have my 30 minutes of quiet time now.
And I think it's all about communication.
Yeah. Some days, like the way you've done certain things,
you're going to change it up.
Like, okay, I would have done this,
but hey, right now this is important.
I got to be there for my partner.
The other things can wait.
Yeah. And I just, I'll just say too,
like how healing it is when somebody takes you as you are.
Like I grew up like doing musical theater.
So like he gets reenactments all the time
of all sorts of musicals.
Just like, I might be washing the dishes
and singing like five different parts from a musical.
And like growing up, like my family would always be like,
stop it, be quiet, like shut it down.
And like his, one of the first few times it happened,
he was like, that was so good.
Like, what was that from?
Like, what were you doing?
Like, tell me more.
And I was like, wait, you're serious?
Like, you're not giving me a hard time.
Like you actually found that entertaining?
Yeah.
And like, it's very healing.
Yeah. We were, we were working out
and she played some music and she was doing a choreography.
And I was like, oh wow.
Like I want to, I was like,
I want to learn that choreography.
Cause I like to dance.
I was like, oh, like, did you, did you learn that?
Like, did you do that in a show?
And she says, I just made it up right now.
I was like, oh, I want to learn it too.
So I think that's what it's about.
Yeah. Go ahead, Brian.
Sorry.
No, no, no.
It's all about just, you know, owning yourself in that way.
Like it's, I think it's just a beautiful thing.
And cause we're all God's children
and we have all our interesting quirks.
works in interesting parts of ourselves that I think just makes us who we are.
And he wants us to, to showcase it.
And it's great when you can share it with your partner.
I love this.
And I'm so glad you went and got the glow sticks.
I totally, I'm like, I might have to buy some of those.
So as we close, I just, um, wanted to say to you all, this is the
kind of stuff God has for you.
You know, that even as we were talking about that, you will have somebody that
you can even navigate difficult conversations with and come out the other
side, stronger, not further apart and have fun with, and, um, As y'all were
sharing your stories, I mean, I've told the last year single crew so many times.
I mean, I love to scare.
It's like my favorite thing.
You all, I'm going to find every way possible, uh, to jump out
from somewhere and scare my husband.
Thank God he has a strong heart.
Um, but the other thing I was just thinking about so funny, I don't know
if y'all have ever heard of zoomies, but you know, this girl can fall asleep
and be out and then wake up.
And then I have just like massive energy.
And so sometimes my husband does too, but he likes to say I'm the
only one that gets the zoomies.
So if you don't know what zoomies are, you'll have to look up some funny
reels, um, but it's a legit thing.
And he laughs and we laugh together.
Uh, sometimes when I say this, I don't mean this is in a, we fight in a bad
way, but we fight over the covers and take them from each other.
It's like a whole thing, uh, sometimes at night.
And so, you know, no matter what you're going through right now, I want you to
really believe that God has fun for you and your relationship to not just serious,
not just spiritual.
That was one of the things I put on my Jesus cares board y'all for my relationship.
I, I literally put the word fun.
That's one of the things I wanted and I absolutely got it.
You see that these couples have built that and are doing that with their
lives and their partners as well.
So believe for that too.
And that the things that maybe other people squashed in you, like Megan was
talking about, that God will use your spirit mate to help create a safe space
for you to be who you are and, and for that person to love that part of you.
Um, and I know that that's happened for my Brian as well.
And so I believe God has that for you all.
Um, Clayton and Stacy, Megan and Brian.
So awesome to be here with you all tonight.
Thank you for your time and sharing your stories.
Uh, praying many, many blessings over your, your marriages and your families.
And, uh, let me just pray us out tonight.
God, thank you again, just for bringing us all here.
We know that like all of the people that are here tonight and have been here
tonight, we will not all be here together again in the same place in our hearts
and our lives and our spirits.
So God, thank you for this time.
Thank you for the joy, the laughter, the good, uh, information, their stories.
God, I pray that you just continue to bless their marriages and
again, bless our, our community.
Encourage those that feel discouraged, Lord, help them to, to let, um, help
them to experience God, your presence.
And, um, yeah, Lord, just to get to know themselves more, um, as who they are in
Christ, and we just thank you God for your blessings, your protection be with
all of us as we go about this weekend, 4th of July, celebrate our freedom.
That not only would we celebrate our country, God, but we would celebrate
the freedom that Jesus Christ died to give us and that we would walk in
that in a fresh way in Jesus name.
Amen.
God bless you all.
Have a good night, everyone.
Bye-bye.