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How do you lay down at night on your pillow

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after you've just preached a six-part sermon series

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on why tasting alcohol will send you straight to hell,

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but yet then you come home, you molest your daughter,

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and now you can go to sleep?

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I don't understand how somebody gets to that point.

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All right, everybody, welcome back to the Preacher Boys podcast.

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Wendy, thank you so much for joining me on today's show.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited to finally be here.

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Yeah, the key word is finally be here.

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We've been trying to set this up for a long time,

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and I'm so glad we're finally sitting across from each other.

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And I want to know a little bit about your introduction

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to the church world.

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What was your first memories of being part of a church?

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Well, when I was born, my dad was already a Baptist preacher.

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So I don't know if they had me in the Baptistry.

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So the real question is, can you remember a time before that?

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No, no.

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I literally think I was probably at church

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before I turned one week old.

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That was just a thing.

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You'd never missed a service.

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So I was most likely on the front row

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before I was even a week old.

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So I don't ever remember a time in my life

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where church wasn't part of it.

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Right.

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Were your early memories positive?

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Did you have a positive experience

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growing up within the church?

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And being a staff kid has its own challenges and things

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like that.

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Was it fairly positive memories, though, overall?

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It absolutely was.

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When I was born, we lived in Illinois.

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And my dad had a church there.

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But when I was two, we moved to the Atlanta, Georgia area.

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And he took over a church.

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And so those are really where my memories are.

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I don't remember much of Kankakee.

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I can't hardly remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

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But I have very good memories of the time in Atlanta,

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which was from two years old up until about the time I was 14.

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And most of those memories were very good.

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When I say the church, I actually

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mean he had not just a church, but we started a school.

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And so I called it the compound.

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And I know that's probably got a negative connotation because

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of the David crushes of the world or whatever.

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But it was, for me, it was the most fun place to be.

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Everyone in my world either went to our church and or our school.

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So all of everything I did was on that campus right there.

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And so if we weren't at church or at school,

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we were at home.

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So it was just one of those places all the time.

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And I loved being a PK.

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I absolutely loved it.

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I mean, my dad was like the head honcho.

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And he was the founder of the school,

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the pastor of the church.

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And I was so confident in how I related to my father.

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I was daddy's little girl.

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I was the first born at the time.

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There were four of us.

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And I was so confident in my relationship with him

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that I used to tell my teachers as I was growing up,

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don't make me mad or I'll tell my dad and he'll fire you.

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And I truly believed that.

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My dad was everything to me.

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And of course, growing up in the IFB, looking back,

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they were taught to elevate themselves

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so that other people put them on a pedestal

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and worship them instead of God.

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And that's the exact environment I grew up in.

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And at the time, it didn't bother me because, of course,

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I didn't know anything else.

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Pulots were what we all wore.

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So I didn't know that was weird.

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I had no idea.

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My cheerleading uniform came down below my knees.

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Well, we all had that kind of cheerleading uniform.

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So I was never exposed to anything

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outside of the walls of our church and our school.

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So for me, it was all positive.

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And when your dad runs the place

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and you feel like your dad's little girl,

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then there was no downside for me.

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It didn't feel like...

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Well, you kind of run the place in a way.

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Yeah.

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In my head, I did.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I remember we had the whole service

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and at the end of the service,

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my dad, after he was done preaching,

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always, whoever was leading the, you know, the prayer that would, you know, you would pray right

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before the service dismissed. During that prayer is when my dad would walk from the stage, from the

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platform, down the aisle to the back in the, whatever you call that, the vestibule, and he

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would stand and he would shake hands with everybody as they left. And I literally, from the front row,

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the second he would get down to the floor, I would grab his hand, walk down the aisle with him,

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and stand there with him while everybody said, oh, that's a great sermon, brother Tom, or way to go,

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you know? And I mean, it was just like, I love him so much. I'm never going to not be with him.

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When he would go visit people in the hospital, I would go with him. The bus route, I would go with

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him. I mean, I wanted to be with my dad at all times. He literally was my hero, period, end of

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story. Yeah. I relate so much to your story thus far, because I grew up a staff kid. My dad was the,

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still is, associate pastor and, you know, administrator of the Christian school. And

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I grew up, like you said, when you're growing up on the staff side, you've got other staff kids

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you're hanging out with, you're riding bikes around the compound, the property. I had the

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same thing, the school and the church on one area. So when I go by there, you know, now there's mixed

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emotions, you know, but, you know, I also have so many positive memories, like learning much of

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what I've learned, you know, learning how to ride a bike, learning how to, you know, make videos with

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a camera, you know, was there, you know, playing with friends was there. Some, it, you know, I,

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I met my wife in high school there, you know, we were that, we were that Christian, you know,

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we met in high school. So, so it's, you know, it's still together. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's,

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it's, so there's so much positivity there and it is what makes some of the negative things that

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have happened hurt worse because it is a place where it was a sanctuary. It literally, and

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emotionally it was, it was a sanctuary. So I'm kind of curious, excuse me. I'm kind of curious

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for you, you know, coming into a place where it is this positive place, you're, you're, you're at

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the top, you know, in a lot of ways, what was the first thing that happened where you said,

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okay, this doesn't feel right. You know, everything up to that point feels great. Life is

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good. This is how it should be. When's the first time you noticed like something's not quite right

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in the way this is all happening? Well, for me, it was done at my house. There was nothing that I

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ever questioned, like no, no rule, no assignment. No, you got to memorize this many verses in a

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wanna. I mean, I prided myself in being a rule follower. I'm a type A by personality. So that

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wasn't hard for me. And I, I didn't have any problems with anything other than these things

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that I wasn't allowed to do. So say for instance, you know, I couldn't wear shirts with writing on

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them because then that made boys look in places they shouldn't look right. And I could swim with

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boys. We call that mixed swimming, you know, couldn't go to the movie theater to watch a movie,

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you know, even if it was Bambi, right. Okay. So those were all things that I did not know at the

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time. I thought they were like sin, like actual sin that we would go to hell. And, um, none of

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that seemed odd to me, but what made me start questioning everything was when I was 11, um, my

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mom and dad, of course, you know, in, in our denomination, divorce is just not an option.

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It's just like, it's one of the top bad word. It's very, very bad word. And you can't pastor anymore

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when you've been divorced. I mean, that's, that's, that's the rule. So, um, when I was 11 years old,

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my mom, whose parents at the time lived in Florida, she started going more often to Florida.

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She'd go down there, you know, before, cause it wasn't a very, very long drive. And, um, so it

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wasn't like she had never gone, but the trips became a little bit more often. Well on these

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trips, um, the four of us kids would always take turns sleeping with dad in the big bed. We called

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that the big bed because I had a big, huge King size bed and we all had these little beds, you

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know, that we slept in. And so it was no different than we had done for years. And on one of these

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particular trips when I was 11, and it was my turn to sleep in the big bed is when my dad started

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doing things to me that, first of all, I couldn't have explained it to you. Had you asked me what

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was happening? Because being that he controlled everything that I learned, that was never

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something we were taught in school. Like sex education was not a thing. Um, we never,

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ever, even, I didn't know the word sex.

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I didn't know anything about it, but I knew that something was happening

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that was new and that felt very, very wrong, but it was hard in my brain to

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put the word wrong and my dad together because I, I so thought of him as so

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close to God and so perfect.

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In fact, I had asked him many times.

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Cause I, I got spanked all the time, you know, as you know, as the preacher's

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kid, like everything you do, I mean, you live in a glass house, so yes.

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So the people who are on his payroll got brownie points, if any of us kids did

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anything wrong and they caught us and then they told dad, you know, Hey, I

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saw Wendy doing this or whatever.

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I mean, I would get the crap beat out of me, literally.

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And so, you know, I, I personally looked up to him.

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Like he was like next to God because I never saw him get a spanking and I

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would say, dad, you, you must be perfect because you never get spankings.

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And he would laugh and say, well, you know, God is the one that punishes me.

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And I'm like, well, I'd way rather get a punishment from God.

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That can't hurt me as bad, you know?

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And he'd be like, no, no, no, you don't.

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But that's in my, you know, little 11 year old brain, that's how I felt.

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So the word wrong was never, um, like it's, it's just not something I

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would have ever used to describe him.

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So just naturally, because I was wrong a lot and got in trouble a lot, I

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thought something is wrong with me.

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This is my fault.

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Something is majorly like, what am I doing?

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That's creating this weird problem I'm having, you know?

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And so it just kept getting, you know, more and more frequent and more frequent.

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And it went on for years.

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And of course, um, you know, I knew for a fact that nobody in my world that I

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knew no, no adult, not even my peers would have believed me if I would have

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tried to explain to them what was happening.

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And so I never said a word, but, but my dad also told me and was very adamant

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that if I did say anything to anyone that my mom would leave, it would break

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up our family and that would be the end of it.

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So that being my entire world was all I needed to hear to, you know,

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control and keep me very, very quiet.

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So that was the first thing that, you know, raised a red flag with me.

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And it was nothing to do with church or school.

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It was everything to do with what was happening at home.

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Right.

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Right.

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With someone who's a literal paternal figure, but also spiritual leader, you

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know, and that's a, that's a, that's a lot to come down at once, you know, it's

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a lot to, to, you know, have to deal with at once.

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And I'm curious before, can I continue with your story?

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You know, you mentioned 11 years old, not knowing what even to call what was

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happening, you know, not being able to identify what was going on.

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And I'm kind of curious, like now in retrospect, you know, looking at

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Christian education, how sheltered children are within the, you know,

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Christian service.

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I think there's a benefit to that.

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You know, I think there's two, some go to the other extreme and I think over

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educate their kids on things they don't need to know yet.

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But then there's the other side, it's hard to find parents who are in that

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middle ground where it's like, I'm going to protect you.

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And then as we get to different levels of life, remove that protection a little

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bit and say, here's what's going on.

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Here's what you need to keep an eye out for.

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Do you, do you think that, how do you think, I guess the church could do

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better or schools could do better in equipping kids to be ready to identify

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potentially harmful situations and, you know, prepare them for the realities of

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life as opposed to putting them in a bubble that can be, you know, very

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quickly popped, you know, by anyone.

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Right.

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I think the first thing is that the church has to be willing to believe

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a child that comes forward for, for a child to come forward and make an

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accusation against someone.

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And especially someone in a leadership position in a church situation or a

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parent, that is such a level of courage that a lot of kids cannot even fathom.

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However, if the church had a record of supporting that, I think first and

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foremost, it would be much.

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easier for children, but also then they would want to provide the resources for parents

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and teachers to be able to then educate them on this is how you do this.

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So for instance, like right now we have a ministry that we have a curriculum that teaches

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children from little bitty, I'm talking three, four years old, all the way through college

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age and it's all age appropriate.

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Nothing is, you know, like what you're seeing nowadays with the pornographic cartoon things.

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It's nothing like that.

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But it opens up the dialogue for questions for children to be able to ask in a very safe

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environment.

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It has color sheets for, you know, them being little and sometimes the things that they

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color or they draw are very eye opening.

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And so there are ways that you can very innocently and age appropriately share information with

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them that then would be a quick red flag for a grown adult to know, Hey, there's, we need

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to look into this a little bit more, but then that teacher would have to then have, you

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know, the latitude to be able to go somewhere and say, Hey, I think we need to question

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little Johnny over here, you know, because our house is, would have been the safest house.

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Any member of our church would have, without even thinking, let their child spend the night

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at our house, any member of our church.

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And so, you know, you say now as, as parents, how do you not, you know, like I wanted, when

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I found out I was pregnant the first time I wanted to, like, as soon as he came out,

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you know, fit him for some kind of, you know, protection device, chain him to his bed, never

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let him out of the house.

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Right.

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I mean, that's obviously not the answer, but when you have conversations with them that

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are age appropriate, then when they get to certain ages, then they're not, they're not

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afraid to talk to you about that because kind of opened that door and you then put

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boundaries in place that protect them.

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So for us, it doesn't matter who they are.

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They, our kids do not spend the night with anybody.

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Now their friends can come here all day long.

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If their parents are good with that, they can come spend the night here.

250
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We can have the entire class of, you know, their school to come over and spend the

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night.

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They are going nowhere.

253
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Our kids go nowhere.

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Period.

255
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End of story.

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Now that changed as they got, you know, like even, I think, I think my oldest son spent

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the night out when he was 17 for the first time.

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Now my, my next oldest child was more like 15 or 16, but you know, we learned, you know,

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I told my first child, you are the experiment child.

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So understand we started a college fund for you and a counseling fund all at the same

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time.

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So hopefully we will not screw you up as bad.

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In fact, I said, maybe our grandchildren will be normal, right?

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You know, like we, we are not even hoping that our kids are normal, you know, because

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we know there's so much that we are trying to overcome and just find that balance.

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Like what you're talking about, because it is very easy as a parent to want to protect

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them.

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And that's all really, really, that's, that's good intentions, right?

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But you can also really damage them by keeping them in a bubble and never, ever letting

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them experience.

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Cause at some point they're going to leave the house.

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I mean, it's just the way nature is.

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They're going to leave the house.

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And even though I homeschooled my kids for eight years and that I have to say, um, if

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I can do any kind of plug for homeschooling, I think if you've ever considered

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homeschooling right now in 2021, this is the time to homeschool.

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There is so much weirdness going on in our public school systems and even our Christian

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schools.

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You know, I sent my kids to a Christian school, um, because they were both baseball

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players and they aged out of little league here.

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And so, um, of course I wouldn't even think of sending them to a public school, but even

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the Christian school I sent them to, I mean, there's all kinds of issues going on, tons

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of issues.

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And my son actually wrote a paper saying how when he went to this Christian school, his

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relationship with the Lord went the opposite direction.

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He had, he's now working his way back to the way it was when we homeschooled.

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And the sad part of that is, you know, every kid, no matter how much you protect

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them, there's going to be a time where they, they have to figure things out for

289
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themselves.

290
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They're going to, like, you know, we call that rebelling or whatever.

291
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I don't think it's rebelling at all.

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I think it is the process of life.

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And as a mom, I want them to know their faith is theirs because they're not, they're

294
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not going to heaven because I'm saved.

295
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They're going to heaven because they have a personal relationship with the Lord.

296
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So they, they had to figure that out for themselves.

297
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Well, when you're.

298
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in a peer pressure situation in a school,

299
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that is a lot harder place to be.

300
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So if they don't have a safe place at home

301
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to come home and say, hey mom, hey dad,

302
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so-and-so was smoking vapes in the bathroom

303
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or so-and-so and just announced that they had sex

304
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in the car in between classes.

305
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It's like, if you freak out

306
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and they're not gonna come talk to you.

307
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So you have to be able to have those hard conversations

308
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and talk to them.

309
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And if you don't, they're gonna talk to someone else.

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Well, you set the precedent as a parent

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and that's something that my wife and I talk about a lot

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and we're, we have a four-year-old,

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so it's like, we're looking down the barrel

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at all these things.

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But even now, when we first,

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when she first started walking and knocking things over,

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we would have conversations, not us and the four-year-old,

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us, me and my wife would have conversations about,

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we don't want her to be scared to tell us

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she broke something.

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We don't want her to be scared to tell us

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that she knocked her plate off the table

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because the thing is like, it starts that early.

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Like if you set a precedent where,

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oh, you spilled ketchup on the couch,

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which I may or may not be referencing a direct thing

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that may have happened.

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You know, if she sees, oh, daddy yelled at me over that

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and, you know, freaked out and flipped the house upside down

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you know, is my daughter at 13 or 14

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when something serious happens gonna come to me?

332
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Because if I responded like that to the ketchup

333
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or to the spilled milk or to,

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how am I gonna respond to, you know, so-and-so did this

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or this happened or I made this mistake.

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And I think it's so important, especially like you said,

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bubble wrapping your kids does a disservice

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because the minute any adversity of any kind happens,

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even if it's not their fault, you know,

340
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that level of shame and fear they feel

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is gonna stop them from coming to you, which is scary.

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That scares me that my daughter might not come to me

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and tell me something, you know, I wanna know first.

344
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Right, absolutely, yes.

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And I think also as parents,

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it's so important for us to set an example

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of admitting that we are wrong.

348
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So when we make a mistake,

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so let's say, let's use your ketchup example.

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If you do freak out, right, which I did multiple times,

351
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but I had to go right back and say, you know what?

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Mommy was wrong.

353
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I should never have acted like that.

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I overreacted.

355
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This is not a big deal.

356
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It is a thing.

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We can replace that thing.

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Even if, you know, she burnt a hole in the couch,

359
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you know, you can replace the couch.

360
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What you can't do very easily is repair their spirit.

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And so if we can tell them and set an example

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of this is what you do when you're wrong,

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you go back and you make it right,

364
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and you admit where you were wrong,

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and then you tell them, this is what I should have done.

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This is how I handle it.

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And will you forgive me?

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And then you repair that relationship.

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Number one, they're getting a model of, okay,

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well, when I do something wrong,

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I need to go back and tell my dad, you know what?

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I totally messed this up.

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I'm so sorry.

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Now, it doesn't mean there's no consequence

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for what they did.

376
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I mean, you know, burned a hole in the couch.

377
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:33.800
Okay, yeah, we have to repair the couch.

378
00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:35.440
Now, when she's four, you know,

379
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you're probably not gonna take it out of her allowance,

380
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you know, but there comes a time

381
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where when they make dumb choices or whatever,

382
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you're like, okay, well, you know,

383
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:45.520
we'll just give you extra projects.

384
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You can work that off or, you know, whatever.

385
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You wanna teach them, you know, how to admit they're wrong,

386
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but also how to take responsibility for their actions

387
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because that is the real world.

388
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And so you wanna prepare them for that

389
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while they're here, you know?

390
00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:02.760
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's so important.

391
00:24:02.760 --> 00:24:04.320
And before we move on,

392
00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:06.920
what was the name of the resource that you mentioned?

393
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.880
Where can people find that?

394
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:13.880
Oh, on our website, it's endabuse.com, endabuse.

395
00:24:14.040 --> 00:24:14.960
Yeah. Perfect, perfect.

396
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.800
Yeah, and I wanna throw out one more material

397
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that's been really helpful.

398
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:22.600
There's a book called God Made All of Me by Justin Holcomb.

399
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I don't know if you've ever read it,

400
00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:26.600
but it's a really great book for kids.

401
00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:28.880
Our daughter's not quite old enough yet,

402
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I think maybe five.

403
00:24:30.280 --> 00:24:32.160
I would say like when they're ready for K-5,

404
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.840
I think it's a good book to dive into,

405
00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:38.680
but it does a really good job explaining, you know,

406
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:40.200
one of my favorite things in the book,

407
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.440
it talks about the difference between secrets and surprises,

408
00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:46.720
and like it goes into grooming a little bit

409
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without obviously using scary terminology

410
00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:51.240
that's gonna terrify your five-year-old.

411
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.360
Again, giving them what they need to know,

412
00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:55.480
but it's a really helpful book as well.

413
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:57.320
But I'll link to all this stuff in the show notes

414
00:24:57.320 --> 00:24:59.560
for people listening so they can check it out.

415
00:24:59.560 --> 00:25:00.400
But.

416
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:13.440
But going, going back to your story, I mean, like I said, this is a lot to confront, you know, this is a lot to your, your spiritual, your physical, your family, um, you know, how long did this go on?

417
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:21.840
And, and what was the effect it had on you as you're developing, you know, you're, you're growing, you're trying to figure out where you stand in the world.

418
00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:28.000
You're trying to figure out what you believe, what was the effect over those years as this continued?

419
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:53.440
Well, it finally ended because my parents sat us down on December 30th of 1983. It was a couple of months before I turned 14. And what we were told was that we were moving to Texas to start another church. So, um, that's what we thought initially.

420
00:25:53.760 --> 00:26:12.080
It wasn't very long after that on our way out to Texas, that the truth came out and being the oldest, um, I'm the one who kind of figured it out, of course, because of the abuse that I have been going through for the last several years, I'm matured way faster than I probably should have.

421
00:26:12.080 --> 00:26:34.800
So I was more attuned to even looking for things because I was now starting to question things on my own. And so, um, my, my dad and my mom who, you know, had been married my whole life, there was also another couple in our church that had been married for however long, and they had been in our church a couple of years.

422
00:26:34.800 --> 00:26:45.760
But, um, and, you know, she was an elementary teacher in our school, and he was my volleyball and softball coach and eighth grade homeroom teacher, history teacher, all that.

423
00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:57.120
They were married and they got divorced at the same time my parents got divorced. And I was very close to these people and my parents would travel, I would stay with them.

424
00:26:57.120 --> 00:27:05.760
And, um, so I was devastated, you know, that we were moving and I just wanted to live with them and stay with my friends. And of course, that was not an option.

425
00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:20.720
But what I found out quickly on the way to Texas was that they had all been swapping partners. And so my dad and mom got divorced and he married the woman and my mom married her husband.

426
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:28.720
So my stepmom and my stepdad were married to each other. And so it was like, okay, hold on.

427
00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:42.720
Wait, what? Okay, I can't wear shirts with writing on them or swim with boys, but I have the stuff going on at my house that nobody knows about. And I'm keeping the secret that no one knows about.

428
00:27:42.720 --> 00:28:07.840
And now you're getting divorced. Okay, that's a big D word. And wait, and now who are you marrying? And what what is going on? I mean, it was just so like, overwhelming. And of course, I never was allowed to question anything, but you know, it was always because I said so was the answer to any, any kind of question that was uncomfortable.

429
00:28:08.800 --> 00:28:28.480
And so it was very, very difficult for me, because I could tell that these were not going to be easy conversations. So basically, I just said to my dad, I really don't think that mom is going to be happy with how nice you're being to her referring to this other woman.

430
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:50.400
And that's when he said to me, well, your mom is not going to care because she ran off with, you know, Mr. So and so. And I immediately knew that she must have found out about what was happening with my dad, because that's what he told me would happen if she found out. So now my biggest fear has come to light.

431
00:28:50.400 --> 00:29:16.800
And he allowed me to believe that he really allowed me to feel like this was my fault. And so my mom left with her with him. And he's now the victim, too. And so this woman who he's now bringing in, is coming in to save the day, because now we don't none of us have a mom. And so she's coming in to save the day.

432
00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:40.160
And at 14, I didn't need anybody saving my day, I just needed some stability. And I just wanted to be with my dad. And if I lost my mom, I was set to deal with that. But getting a new stepmom was just not, I just was not ready for all this change. And it literally happened this quickly.

433
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:59.840
We left Atlanta, January 3 of 84. My parents divorce was final in February. My mom married him in March. And my dad announced to me that he was marrying her in April. Well, that's when I found out that he was having an affair with my mom.

434
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:07.000
At that time, she was already living with us in Texas and we were having to tell people that she was our maid.

435
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:08.000
She's our live-in maid.

436
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.000
Because your dad was still pastoring.

437
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.000
No, no, no, no.

438
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.000
He was not pastoring.

439
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:38.000
In fact, now we were at my uncle's church in Richardson, who is back in the news nowadays because he was on some kind of show like Inside Edition or one of those, A Current Affair or whatever it was, years ago for stealing condoms when he was a pastor.

440
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.000
Ended up, he had an affair.

441
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:48.000
Everybody that came out of that gene pool, all three of the brothers.

442
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:54.000
What I haven't mentioned is they all grew up in Jack Kyle's church.

443
00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:02.000
Jack Kyle's daughter is married to my dad's brother.

444
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.000
We grew up swimming in Jack Kyle's pool.

445
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:16.000
My grandmother, my dad's mother, ran the preacher boy school that he ran out of First Baptist Hammond.

446
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:29.000
All three of the Smith boys were trained by Jack Kyle's to never admit you're wrong because then you're a weak leader and nobody will follow you.

447
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.000
Deny, deny, deny.

448
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.000
It's just ridiculous.

449
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:41.000
Everywhere I went, that was my, that was what I was surrounded by.

450
00:31:42.000 --> 00:32:00.000
On the day that my soon to be stepmother told my dad that he had to pick between her and I, because this wasn't working, that's when I really believed that, okay, finally, he's going to tell her to go.

451
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:06.000
Because in my brain, there was not any, that was not a hard choice.

452
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.000
I was his first born daughter.

453
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.000
He had known her a couple years.

454
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.000
And like, if you're going to give him an ultimatum, I mean, thank you.

455
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.000
You know, good, good rhythms.

456
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.000
And that's not how it happened.

457
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:24.000
The next day, I was, I had made cheerleading at my uncle's school there in Richardson.

458
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:30.000
And my dad came to the school and was walking down the hallway.

459
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.000
And when I saw him, I ran up to him because I was so happy to see him.

460
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:36.000
I knew he was coming to tell me that she was leaving.

461
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.000
And when I went to hug him, that wasn't what was happening.

462
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.000
He literally pushed me off of him.

463
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.000
And that moment right there is what changed my life forever.

464
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:58.000
Because that rejection by my own father and the man that taught me about God and the man that introduced me to God,

465
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:08.000
when he rejected me and opened up his coat and told me I was going to live with my mom and I was leaving that night and gave me my plane ticket,

466
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:14.000
that rejection is something that I still struggle with at almost 52 years old.

467
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:25.000
Because the sexual abuse, that is a, one person on the planet has to deal with my triggers and my flashbacks from the sexual abuse.

468
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.000
And that's my husband.

469
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:32.000
Everybody, everybody has to deal with the rejection issues.

470
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Because, you know, had I not been more mature in my walk with the Lord, all the back and forth that you and I were doing,

471
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:47.000
you know, like, okay, I'm going to, now I'm having to reschedule you and I'm here, you know, and not returning the call or, you know, wait, no, I didn't get that email or whatever.

472
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:50.000
Normally I'd be like, oh, well, he's mad at me.

473
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:55.000
Or, oh, he saw something I posted on Facebook and he's, you know, he doesn't want me on the show anymore or whatever.

474
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:04.000
You know, there's so many, there's so many mental gymnastics that I have to go through to say, this has nothing to do with me.

475
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.000
He's, he's busy.

476
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.000
He's got a schedule, you know?

477
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:18.000
And it's so hard for people who have been rejected by the people who should love them and protect them more than anybody.

478
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:25.000
So those are the really, really deep scars and harder things to get over.

479
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Because it's something I live with hourly.

480
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.000
You know what I mean?

481
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.000
Yeah.

482
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.000
No, I know exactly what you mean.

483
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
I'm always terrified of people, you know, did I offend somebody?

484
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.000
Did I hurt somebody?

485
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:43.000
And, you know, it's funny because on the flip side of trying to get this scheduled, I'm going there like, are they upset?

486
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:44.000
Or do I need to do this?

487
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.000
And like, how do I make this work?

488
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.000
And so both sides are going like, okay, I hope this is good.

489
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.000
But the minute we get on the phone, it's like, oh, we're both like, let's make it happen.

490
00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:00.000
And, you know, I'm more excited than ever to be sitting down and doing this and, you know, but it's, I've seen.

491
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.740
that to varying degrees, you know, doing this show, you know, I have people that

492
00:35:03.740 --> 00:35:07.020
reach out to me and I just really can't get to everything every day.

493
00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:11.880
I mean, with Facebook and Instagram and email and Tik TOK and like all these

494
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:16.980
places and I get a lot of, a lot of times, uh, even one of my, my really closest

495
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:20.760
friends that I've made from the show, he'll text me and then like the next

496
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:21.780
day I'll be like, you good?

497
00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:24.160
And I'm like, yeah, I just totally, I read it.

498
00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:24.880
I received it.

499
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:25.580
It was great.

500
00:35:25.580 --> 00:35:26.640
Thank you so much.

501
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:32.180
But I just, in my mind, I dealt with it and it was done and I just, it never

502
00:35:32.180 --> 00:35:32.520
happened.

503
00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:36.620
And so I had people, I've had, you know, I've had one or two that get so mad and

504
00:35:36.620 --> 00:35:39.080
they're like, do you, you don't care about my story?

505
00:35:39.080 --> 00:35:43.260
I'm like, it's not that, but I also have to remember on my side, you know, they're

506
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:48.420
telling themselves a version of the story that is, I don't care or that I, you

507
00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:52.580
know, I'm another person that's discounting them or that's not the case,

508
00:35:52.580 --> 00:35:56.420
you know, and I, so I'm partly saying that if anybody's listening, who has

509
00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:59.180
reached out, hit me up again, let's do it again.

510
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:07.200
But, yeah, so I want to ask you this before we move on, like your, your dad

511
00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:12.500
was the person that introduced you to God, spiritual leader, like you didn't

512
00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:18.140
see any of these issues, you know, looking back retrospect, like I always

513
00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:21.900
do, like I look at a Jack Hiles, I look at stories like yours and I see these

514
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:26.700
guys who build these platforms on the Bible, you know, or on this Christian

515
00:36:26.700 --> 00:36:31.800
worldview who live in complete contradiction to that, do you think it's

516
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:37.780
a situation where that's just an easy path to become successful and to

517
00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.220
leverage it for what they want?

518
00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:42.980
Or do you think it's something where they go in well-intentioned, they do

519
00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:46.980
believe it, and that belief just fades out to the background as they start

520
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:48.180
getting more and more power.

521
00:36:49.180 --> 00:36:54.860
I think it is, um, closer to your second scenario and let me, let me kind of

522
00:36:54.860 --> 00:37:03.380
explain, you know, I have racked my brain with what made my dad cross this line

523
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:10.100
with me and how, how do you lay down at night on your pillow after you've just

524
00:37:10.100 --> 00:37:15.420
preached a six part sermon series on why tasting alcohol will send you straight to

525
00:37:15.500 --> 00:37:19.900
hell, but yet then you come home, you molest your daughter and now you can go

526
00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:20.420
to sleep.

527
00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:24.100
I don't understand how like somebody gets to that point, right?

528
00:37:24.140 --> 00:37:27.460
I mean, that is like not something you just wake up and do, right?

529
00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:30.140
You just like, it's a fade over time.

530
00:37:30.580 --> 00:37:36.660
I think what happens is that I really believe, and I'm, I'm not speaking for

531
00:37:36.660 --> 00:37:44.220
everyone, but I think for the most part, I do believe people who surrender to

532
00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:49.700
ministry, I think they do have, for the most part, good intentions.

533
00:37:49.940 --> 00:37:53.220
I think a couple things happen in the case with my dad.

534
00:37:53.620 --> 00:37:59.100
I believe that the stuff that he was taught to preach and that he grew up

535
00:37:59.100 --> 00:38:03.500
believing himself, you know, like, I mean, there's nowhere in scripture that says a

536
00:38:03.500 --> 00:38:07.140
woman cannot, um, you know, wear a shirt with writing.

537
00:38:07.180 --> 00:38:11.620
Now you can interpret that from, you know, modest things, you know, scripture

538
00:38:11.620 --> 00:38:17.060
about modest, but that's an interpretation that is certainly not up to any man to

539
00:38:17.060 --> 00:38:23.220
tell a woman, unless maybe they are the husband and something is uncomfortable

540
00:38:23.220 --> 00:38:27.340
and then they can have that conversation privately, but in no way, it gives anyone

541
00:38:27.340 --> 00:38:31.500
the right to stand in a pulpit and demand it, or make someone feel guilty.

542
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:33.620
That's, that's the job of the Holy Spirit.

543
00:38:33.620 --> 00:38:36.580
And the Holy Spirit is the only one who can convict a heart and

544
00:38:36.580 --> 00:38:38.060
make them want to do something.

545
00:38:38.060 --> 00:38:38.540
Right?

546
00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:44.100
So I think what happens is because they have all these guidelines and all these

547
00:38:44.100 --> 00:38:49.580
rules, and they are telling people, they, they are also having to look

548
00:38:49.580 --> 00:38:52.620
that way in front of those people.

549
00:38:53.220 --> 00:39:00.780
And I think that is so unattainable that it is, they literally come and swing all

550
00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:06.540
the way over here and have this double life so that somehow they feel somewhat

551
00:39:06.540 --> 00:39:08.660
normal because this isn't normal.

552
00:39:09.340 --> 00:39:15.700
And this certainly isn't normal, but, but maybe a combination of the two kind

553
00:39:15.700 --> 00:39:17.580
of gives them a balance somehow.

554
00:39:17.620 --> 00:39:20.420
They're fulfilling what they want, also fulfilling what they

555
00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:21.740
think other people expected.

556
00:39:21.740 --> 00:39:22.900
Right, right.

557
00:39:23.060 --> 00:39:30.020
But also like just having a, having, you know, I don't know, just some kind of

558
00:39:30.540 --> 00:39:39.140
outlet for not being perfect because none of us are and where, where they are

559
00:39:39.180 --> 00:39:45.580
really, really missing the boat is in grace, because even though we sang

560
00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:51.100
amazing grace, I did not understand grace until many, many, many years later.

561
00:39:51.580 --> 00:39:58.980
I knew what grace was, but I had never received it because I lived in

562
00:39:58.980 --> 00:39:59.940
condemnation.

563
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.760
Well, that's not scriptural either. That's so completely against the Bible and I'll give you a for instance

564
00:40:08.680 --> 00:40:12.800
When okay, so let me I do need to tell you this because this is relevant

565
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:16.720
After the flip-flop, right

566
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:23.680
The switching of partners and after my dad told me I was going back to live with my mom who in my brain didn't want

567
00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:26.520
Me at all because she had found out about what happened

568
00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:32.840
I'm now back in Atlanta living with my mom and my new stepdad and

569
00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:36.680
some things came up where I

570
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:45.240
I had heard another rumor about my dad and was so mad that I was hearing something else that I went in and

571
00:40:45.560 --> 00:40:52.680
Confronted my mom and my stepdad about it and it had to do with him, you know

572
00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:55.200
Having an affair

573
00:40:55.200 --> 00:41:00.080
Before and my mom said why would you even think something like that about your dad?

574
00:41:00.080 --> 00:41:06.560
And I'm like, well mommy, you know why I would think that thinking she already knew and that's why she had left

575
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.040
About what happened with us and she's looking at me and she's like, no, I don't understand

576
00:41:12.040 --> 00:41:17.000
Why would you think something like that about your dad and after a couple minutes going back and forth?

577
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:20.520
I realized she did not know and so now I'm I'm having to tell her

578
00:41:21.120 --> 00:41:24.520
What my dad did to me which was devastating to me

579
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:31.600
So I ended up being so distraught that I was the one that had to tell her

580
00:41:31.600 --> 00:41:36.720
I ended up like totally depressed with doing anorexia bulimia

581
00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:41.800
I mean I was trying to get some kind of control back in my life and about the time that I did

582
00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:48.080
My stepdad started molesting me. So now I've got a whole nother father figure this new

583
00:41:49.040 --> 00:41:53.080
man in my mom's life that is now doing the same thing and

584
00:41:54.080 --> 00:41:59.520
So I say that to tell you that by the time I was 18 years old

585
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:02.520
My moral compass was so

586
00:42:03.120 --> 00:42:04.400
messed up

587
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:08.280
Because I had also before we left Georgia had a Sunday school teacher

588
00:42:08.640 --> 00:42:13.840
That molested me had an eighth grade homeroom teacher that molested me

589
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.000
there were other people because I feel like

590
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:24.680
Once you are a victim like there's some kind of radar that perverts have they can just sense

591
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:31.960
That you are an easy target and and because you're so young when it happens and you don't speak up for yourself

592
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:34.360
That's another thing that we teach kids what you know

593
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:39.400
How to speak up for themselves and find a trusted adult inside the house and one outside the house

594
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:42.400
I mean, there's a lot to it, but I didn't have any of that

595
00:42:42.640 --> 00:42:47.920
So I just was I felt like a piece of meat right like I just this must be why I'm here

596
00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:50.440
so when I was 18 years old, I

597
00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:56.360
Ended up in a topless bar as a stripper now get this looking back on this

598
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:58.920
This is one of the craziest things for me. I'm

599
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:01.920
18 I danced for almost two years

600
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:04.800
Never did I taste alcohol?

601
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:09.880
Did I puff on a cigarette or do any drugs now how how I did that?

602
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:11.600
I have no idea

603
00:43:11.600 --> 00:43:18.360
because I do know it was God's grace in my life because I would be dead right now had I had I done that because

604
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:22.200
I have a very addictive personality and that environment and

605
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.800
Yes, absolutely would have just sucked me in

606
00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:30.680
but what's interesting is

607
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.840
That was a place for me that I actually felt safe because in these clubs

608
00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:41.560
We had bouncers and those bouncers were very protective of us

609
00:43:41.720 --> 00:43:46.640
So if they saw any I mean we had signals we could give them but they were also very observed

610
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.600
Very observant and if they saw anybody giving us a hard time

611
00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:55.280
I mean it it was about 0.28 seconds and they were dragging somebody out of the club

612
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:03.040
Well, nobody was doing that for me at home. Like I was I was an easy target everywhere. I went so I

613
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:04.240
I

614
00:44:04.240 --> 00:44:08.280
was safe on that stage and so for me

615
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:14.400
That's what kept me there for almost two years and it was that feeling of okay. I can at least

616
00:44:15.160 --> 00:44:17.640
get the control back of my

617
00:44:19.680 --> 00:44:21.680
Sexuality and

618
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.800
You know just not being taken from because everything was always taken from me without my permission

619
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:35.520
You know, and so I I felt like for me that was the safest place to be well

620
00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:43.240
The Lord obviously had a plan for all of that because years later years later

621
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:49.360
We end up opening up a home for unwed pregnant sex traffic teenage girls

622
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.640
And now this is you know decades later

623
00:44:52.640 --> 00:45:00.040
So these girls are so broken and so hurting but they have been so abused that

624
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.680
that they don't trust anyone, literally, they trust no one.

625
00:45:04.680 --> 00:45:08.760
So what was always interesting was watching them

626
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:13.400
change how they reacted to me after they heard my story.

627
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.840
When they knew what I had gone through,

628
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.560
that I had also done something that I'm ashamed of,

629
00:45:21.560 --> 00:45:24.120
although my shame is totally gone now

630
00:45:24.120 --> 00:45:26.720
because that's all been covered by the blood,

631
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:31.360
but that gave me an authority with them

632
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:33.400
to then speak into their lives

633
00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:36.560
because no longer was I just the church lady

634
00:45:36.560 --> 00:45:40.240
that they got stuck at this home that she was running.

635
00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:42.320
I was now somebody that literally

636
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.680
had walked in their shoes with them.

637
00:45:46.680 --> 00:45:50.060
And so it was so much more effective

638
00:45:50.060 --> 00:45:52.400
than just being someone who read a good book

639
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:56.040
and said, oh, well, page 210 says

640
00:45:56.040 --> 00:45:59.040
this is how you should be feeling right now.

641
00:45:59.040 --> 00:46:01.960
I mean, they heard my story in the news.

642
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:04.520
So it was, for me, I'm so thankful.

643
00:46:04.520 --> 00:46:09.520
I'm so thankful that God gave me all of that pain.

644
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.480
Now, I wouldn't choose it again.

645
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.120
I mean, I'm not a masochist.

646
00:46:14.120 --> 00:46:15.600
I wouldn't be like, okay, yeah,

647
00:46:15.600 --> 00:46:18.000
but I can either be bitter

648
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.760
or I can allow it to make me better.

649
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:20.600
That sounds cheesy,

650
00:46:20.600 --> 00:46:23.240
but those are your two options, right?

651
00:46:23.240 --> 00:46:26.960
I can be bitter and that is not something

652
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:30.760
that I wanted to pass along to my children.

653
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:33.400
I don't want them to see a bitter mom.

654
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:36.600
I want them to see a victorious mom.

655
00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:40.520
And so I decided to take what happened to me

656
00:46:40.520 --> 00:46:44.800
and to get victory over that

657
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.520
and then be an advocate for people

658
00:46:47.520 --> 00:46:49.520
that had also been through it

659
00:46:49.520 --> 00:46:52.880
so that their parents don't find them hanging in the closet

660
00:46:53.520 --> 00:46:54.520
because they don't think anybody will help them

661
00:46:54.520 --> 00:46:55.880
or believe them.

662
00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.560
Because I know when I have spoken at women's conferences

663
00:46:59.560 --> 00:47:01.480
and youth conferences,

664
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:03.000
every single time I speak,

665
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.880
somebody comes forward and says,

666
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:07.840
I've never shared this with anybody,

667
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:09.440
but I feel like I can tell you.

668
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.040
And it's because that vulnerability and that transparency

669
00:47:14.040 --> 00:47:18.600
that draws people to you so that they feel safe as well.

670
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.040
So that's, I wouldn't have that

671
00:47:22.040 --> 00:47:26.800
had I not gone through everything that was painful.

672
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:29.760
And like I said, I wouldn't vote for it again,

673
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.840
but I think it's the same kind of thing like,

674
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:33.800
and I certainly don't compare myself to Paul,

675
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:36.960
but the Bible tells us that Paul was set aside

676
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.400
in his mother's womb for service to the Lord.

677
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:41.640
Well, why in the world then wouldn't God

678
00:47:41.640 --> 00:47:43.800
have met him on the road to Damascus like at eight

679
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:45.360
before he could have done all the damage

680
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.320
he did to the church, right?

681
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:51.480
But never one time did he ever run into anyone

682
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.240
after Saul became Paul where they could say,

683
00:47:54.240 --> 00:47:55.720
well, you don't know what I've done.

684
00:47:55.720 --> 00:47:58.000
I mean, Paul like called himself chief of sinners.

685
00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:58.840
You know what I mean?

686
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.560
He had persecuted Christians and everything that,

687
00:48:01.560 --> 00:48:02.960
you know, anybody, I mean,

688
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.200
nobody had any one up on him, right?

689
00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:07.880
So it made him pretty effective in his ministry.

690
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:11.960
And I just feel like so many of us that will, you know,

691
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:14.920
take our broken pieces and sweep them up to the cross

692
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:16.960
and let the Lord make beauty from ashes,

693
00:48:17.600 --> 00:48:18.440
just let that happen.

694
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:19.440
It's painful, don't get me wrong.

695
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.520
It is painful, but it is worth it.

696
00:48:21.520 --> 00:48:24.520
And I feel like I'm the hope on the other side of the cross

697
00:48:24.520 --> 00:48:27.880
for so many of those girls that God brings into my path

698
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:30.520
that I wouldn't be able to even relate to them

699
00:48:30.520 --> 00:48:31.800
and they wouldn't care what I had to say

700
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:33.600
had I not been there and done that.

701
00:48:33.600 --> 00:48:36.640
Right, well, I mean, yeah, nobody would choose it.

702
00:48:36.640 --> 00:48:39.520
I mean, it's one of those things like to get to a point

703
00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:43.520
where you feel safer in a strip club than in a church

704
00:48:43.560 --> 00:48:45.000
or in your own home.

705
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.560
When that becomes more of a sanctuary,

706
00:48:47.560 --> 00:48:49.240
something has gone wrong.

707
00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:52.160
You know, there's something, you know, there's something,

708
00:48:52.160 --> 00:48:53.840
there's something bad there.

709
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.360
And I think, you know,

710
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:56.920
I think it's so important to see this.

711
00:48:56.920 --> 00:49:00.440
And it's unfortunate because, you know,

712
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:02.800
we do say pithy things like, you know,

713
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:03.960
are you gonna be better or better?

714
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:04.840
Are you gonna be this?

715
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:08.800
And unfortunately, so many have weaponized those statements

716
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:10.320
or they've weaponized forgiveness.

717
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:14.280
They've weaponized, you know, healing in a way

718
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.920
to say get over it or don't think about it

719
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:20.200
or it wasn't that big a deal.

720
00:49:20.200 --> 00:49:23.800
Whereas I like what you're saying, which is this happened,

721
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.000
this was bad, this should never have happened.

722
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.440
I definitely wouldn't ever want it to happen again.

723
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:32.480
Don't want it to happen to my kids or to anybody else,

724
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:34.120
but it did happen.

725
00:49:34.120 --> 00:49:36.800
And so, you know, is this gonna be the thing?

726
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:38.760
It's the survivor mentality.

727
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.200
It's how do I take what did happen

728
00:49:42.200 --> 00:49:44.520
and prevent it from happening to anybody else?

729
00:49:44.520 --> 00:49:47.600
How do I take this and make something from it?

730
00:49:47.600 --> 00:49:50.560
You know, with the horrible tools that were handed to you,

731
00:49:50.560 --> 00:49:52.560
how do I do something with it?

732
00:49:52.560 --> 00:49:55.440
And I think that's a powerful thing for people to hear.

733
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.600
And I think it's important to hear it from survivors

734
00:49:58.600 --> 00:50:00.040
because I think when it said,

735
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.280
you know, uh, that phrase specifically, it's funny. My, my wife hates when people say be

736
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:13.680
better or be better because she remembers pastors who didn't go through serious traumas saying that,

737
00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:19.200
you know, pithily from a stage, it sounds good, but you know, they haven't been through the

738
00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:25.840
things that would make you feel legitimately angry and hurt and frustrated. Um, and so I think it

739
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:30.560
means so much coming from someone like you, who's now able to work with someone who feels like

740
00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:35.120
there's no coming back from this. There's no, this is, this is the end. This is the nail in

741
00:50:35.120 --> 00:50:44.960
the coffin on my life. And it doesn't have to be. And you know, I, what, what I love is I now have

742
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:52.320
stories of times where the Lord's opened the door for me to go into a topless bar, you know, and

743
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:57.440
which at the time I couldn't even believe they would let us in. Like I was really kind of even

744
00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:02.400
surprised. And then I found out the owner of one of the bars right here in where I lived is a

745
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:07.120
Baptist preacher's daughter. So she and I just immediately bought it. You know, she has a story

746
00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:13.200
very similar to mine and, but she let me go in and go to the dressing room where these girls are

747
00:51:13.200 --> 00:51:19.120
literally walking around naked. Well, I had been there and done that. So I'm not like, oh my

748
00:51:19.120 --> 00:51:24.400
goodness, what, you know, I literally just walked in looking right in their eyes. And actually I

749
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:30.000
looked at their shoes too, because the shoes have gotten much higher since I was. And so I started

750
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.880
with that. I'm like, girl, how do you walk in those shoes? You know, I'm not judging them. I'm,

751
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:39.520
I'm engaging in a conversation with them. I'm treating them like a human. And when I start

752
00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:44.640
talking to them, they, and I, and I'm with the church ladies, you know, I'm with the ministry

753
00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:49.440
that's there to, you know, save all of them from the pit of hell. Right. But I don't treat them

754
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:54.480
that way. I wouldn't have responded to that. I walked right in and I asked if I could try

755
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:58.320
their shoes on, you know, because seriously wanted to see if I could stand them, you know,

756
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:05.120
but just in my interaction with them, when I started telling them my story, they immediately,

757
00:52:05.120 --> 00:52:12.400
the very first question, how did you get out? So it's so frustrating to me to hear people

758
00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:18.880
put people down, you know, put down the strippers or like, you know, like I remember something

759
00:52:20.240 --> 00:52:24.400
with, when Trump was, I don't know, whatever happened to, he's had so many issues, but

760
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:29.360
one of the people that was like suing him was stormy Daniels. And like, she was a stripper

761
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:33.920
and all this stuff. And they like totally wanted to discredit her on that one thing.

762
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:41.280
Remove the humanity of that person based on that. Yeah. Yeah. She has to be guilty because look what

763
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:47.120
she did, you know? And it's just like, okay, first and foremost, you have no idea. Nobody

764
00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:52.560
wakes up and says, oh, I think I'm going to be a topless dancer today. No, it's nobody just does

765
00:52:52.560 --> 00:52:58.800
that. It's stuff that like, just like with the perpetrators, they don't just wake up and decide

766
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:05.680
they're going to molest. I'm sure there are like serial killer, like really mentally deranged

767
00:53:05.680 --> 00:53:10.960
people that will do that. But, you know, pastors who know the Bible, they don't, they don't just

768
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:16.960
cross the line. It's a slow walk. They, they try to, they try to keep, you know, pushing the

769
00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:22.400
envelope and, you know, they flirt and then they get away with it and that empowers them. And then

770
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:27.760
they, you know, kiss somebody that's not their wife and get away with it. And that empowers them.

771
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:32.320
And then they have a full blown affair and that empowers them. And then that's not enough anymore.

772
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.600
Then they go to strippers or prostitutes, and then that's not enough. And then now it's a child,

773
00:53:37.600 --> 00:53:43.520
you know, and sometimes their own child, that is a long process, you know, and it's the same thing

774
00:53:43.520 --> 00:53:50.640
with these girls. They have been through so much to get them to walk in the doors of a place like

775
00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:57.440
that. So to continue to just devalue them, it's just perpetrating the problem. But when you can

776
00:53:57.520 --> 00:54:05.840
meet somebody head on as a human being, we are all created by the creator and we are all made

777
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:12.480
in his image. Okay. We each have our own stories and we each have our own traumas that happened to

778
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:19.120
us. Some very early, some not till later, but every one of us are struggling with something.

779
00:54:19.120 --> 00:54:23.040
And so if we can just remember that as we're engaging with people, instead of putting them

780
00:54:23.040 --> 00:54:28.080
in a box, okay, well, you're a stripper. So you go in this category or you're a Republican. So you

781
00:54:28.080 --> 00:54:33.920
go in this category or you're in, and I'm talking to myself too, because I have a real hard time

782
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:39.840
with preacher, right? I'm like, I've told, you know, one of the preachers on my board, I'm like,

783
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:45.600
the homeless person that I might have to go around to get into your church is way higher up on my

784
00:54:45.600 --> 00:54:51.520
totem pole than any pastor that I'm listening to from a pulpit, because my initial, you know,

785
00:54:51.520 --> 00:54:56.320
wonderment is, okay, who's he molesting? What's he hiding? What's he not telling me? You know,

786
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:59.840
because it's just like, as you know, better than anybody every day.

787
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:01.000
Hey, there's a new one.

788
00:55:01.020 --> 00:55:01.700
There's a new one.

789
00:55:01.700 --> 00:55:02.400
There's a new one.

790
00:55:02.700 --> 00:55:08.640
What I believe is happening is nobody is highlighting the really awesome pastors.

791
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:15.860
Nobody is highlighting the really awesome doctors or the, the girl that came out of

792
00:55:16.080 --> 00:55:21.360
the stripping and now look what she's doing or whatever it's everybody.

793
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:26.220
And I think human nature is we are drawn to the train wreck.

794
00:55:26.220 --> 00:55:28.680
You know, you don't want to look, but you can't not look right.

795
00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:31.420
And so I think because that's our human nature.

796
00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:35.320
And again, we're in a fallen world, you know, that is something that we just

797
00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:40.200
have to fight again and we have to bring attention to what is positive.

798
00:55:40.200 --> 00:55:43.600
I mean, the Bible warns us, you know, whatever is good, whatever is lovely,

799
00:55:43.600 --> 00:55:46.260
whatever is pure, think on those things.

800
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.800
And as humans, we just don't want to do that.

801
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.760
It's just not exciting for some reason.

802
00:55:51.060 --> 00:55:54.160
And I think it's something that we all struggle with, you know, just

803
00:55:55.080 --> 00:55:57.160
the 24, seven new cycles.

804
00:55:57.160 --> 00:56:02.040
And, you know, it's just, it's something that I think we all need to learn from,

805
00:56:02.040 --> 00:56:07.100
you know, me included, because it can really, I mean, it can wear your spirit

806
00:56:07.100 --> 00:56:10.720
out, you know, yeah, it definitely can.

807
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:12.080
And it is important.

808
00:56:12.080 --> 00:56:15.600
You know, I was, I was talking with someone the other day and I, and I, you

809
00:56:15.600 --> 00:56:20.660
know, I've, I've got close friends who are pastors, you know, and I, I, um, some

810
00:56:20.660 --> 00:56:24.060
are dealing directly with, you know, fallout from scandals and things.

811
00:56:24.060 --> 00:56:29.420
And it's, it's heartbreaking talking to people who are well-intentioned

812
00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:31.580
and are trying their best in our.

813
00:56:32.220 --> 00:56:36.380
And, you know, and they're saying, they're going like, I'm not doing this, but I'm

814
00:56:36.380 --> 00:56:40.020
picking up all of the flack and I'm picking up all the pieces for it.

815
00:56:40.460 --> 00:56:42.140
And same across the board.

816
00:56:42.140 --> 00:56:46.100
I mean, any profession, any, any time, uh, you know, anytime an athletic

817
00:56:46.100 --> 00:56:50.420
news story breaks of abuse, you know, there's good people affected in,

818
00:56:50.540 --> 00:56:51.540
in deep ways.

819
00:56:51.940 --> 00:56:54.940
And I just think it's, it is, it's something where there does need to be

820
00:56:54.940 --> 00:56:57.460
more attention called to the good people.

821
00:56:57.460 --> 00:57:01.100
And that's why I try to have a lot of mixed people on my show, you know, like,

822
00:57:01.100 --> 00:57:04.940
I think it's, you know, I think it's important to bring on pastors who are.

823
00:57:05.300 --> 00:57:08.220
Killing it, you know, they're doing a great job, you know, they're, I think

824
00:57:08.220 --> 00:57:12.020
it's important to bring on people who, you know, maybe Christians would turn

825
00:57:12.020 --> 00:57:16.100
their nose up at and say, you know, oh, it's, you know, but they're killing it

826
00:57:16.100 --> 00:57:17.460
in there and they're helping in ways.

827
00:57:17.620 --> 00:57:22.740
And again, I think those conversations with empathy at the root of them, you

828
00:57:22.740 --> 00:57:24.940
know, is such a positive thing.

829
00:57:24.980 --> 00:57:27.740
It's going to help make progress in all of these different areas.

830
00:57:27.740 --> 00:57:31.780
If we can sit down with someone who's not like us and start with empathy and

831
00:57:31.780 --> 00:57:33.860
just have a conversation and listen,

832
00:57:35.220 --> 00:57:35.540
right.

833
00:57:36.460 --> 00:57:38.060
And listen, it's exactly right.

834
00:57:38.060 --> 00:57:40.940
And it goes back to respect, like what you were saying, you know, you

835
00:57:40.940 --> 00:57:42.020
have to have that respect.

836
00:57:43.100 --> 00:57:46.420
So tell me a little bit about now, because I know you mentioned a little

837
00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:50.820
bit about like some of the ministries you're involved in, obviously, you know,

838
00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:56.420
with the website, like stop abuse, stop abuse, end abuse, end abuse.com.

839
00:57:57.220 --> 00:58:00.460
So with a URL like that, you have a very specific mission.

840
00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:02.460
Tell me a little bit about that.

841
00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:06.900
What has been some of the opportunities you've had to end abuse?

842
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.340
What are, what's, what's the process there and the goal moving forward?

843
00:58:11.220 --> 00:58:14.660
And this, this is going to get you in trouble and probably me in trouble too.

844
00:58:14.700 --> 00:58:15.500
And that's okay.

845
00:58:16.140 --> 00:58:20.140
Let me, let me start by saying this is never something that I would have

846
00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:27.860
surrendered to, submitted to in regards to the Lord, you know, asking me to do

847
00:58:27.860 --> 00:58:31.100
something, which is how I know for a fact it came from the Lord.

848
00:58:31.100 --> 00:58:35.780
This is not something I would have drummed up, but I will reference back

849
00:58:35.780 --> 00:58:38.100
quickly to kind of tell you how I got started.

850
00:58:38.780 --> 00:58:44.860
Well, right before the hospital incident, which I'll tell you about, but I had,

851
00:58:45.260 --> 00:58:46.980
I had thought I finished my book.

852
00:58:47.100 --> 00:58:47.380
Okay.

853
00:58:47.380 --> 00:58:51.020
I have written a book that they told me would take about six months, 18 months

854
00:58:51.020 --> 00:58:54.740
later, I'm finishing it up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I never want to ever do that

855
00:58:54.740 --> 00:58:55.100
again.

856
00:58:55.140 --> 00:58:57.420
So I was so thankful I was done.

857
00:58:57.420 --> 00:59:02.300
I had sent it to the editor and I'm not, I don't feel like I'm a good writer, but

858
00:59:02.300 --> 00:59:05.380
it was like, I had a ghost writer who would interview me, ask me questions, and

859
00:59:05.380 --> 00:59:06.860
then she would make it sound legible.

860
00:59:06.860 --> 00:59:07.060
Right.

861
00:59:07.620 --> 00:59:11.140
And, um, and I told her I wanted it to be for a 10 year old to read, like I said,

862
00:59:11.140 --> 00:59:12.420
make it very plain and simple.

863
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:17.940
Cause you know, my audience, I really want it to, you know, touch young girls or

864
00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:21.460
boys that are in this situation or could be in this situation right now.

865
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:24.380
So, um, we had gone through this whole 18 month process.

866
00:59:24.380 --> 00:59:28.780
I was so happy it was over and I was on a little prayer walk in my subdivision and

867
00:59:28.780 --> 00:59:32.620
just very clearly, I heard the Lord tell me this book is not complete.

868
00:59:32.620 --> 00:59:33.740
And I'm like, oh no, no, no.

869
00:59:33.740 --> 00:59:34.660
It is complete.

870
00:59:34.660 --> 00:59:36.460
We're done 18 months.

871
00:59:36.460 --> 00:59:37.340
I am done.

872
00:59:37.860 --> 00:59:39.940
And, um, and he said, no, there's something missing.

873
00:59:40.620 --> 00:59:42.940
And I'm like, what could possibly be missing?

874
00:59:42.940 --> 00:59:45.620
I have never cried so much in my life.

875
00:59:45.620 --> 00:59:49.460
You know, this, this interview for 18 months just took it out of me.

876
00:59:49.460 --> 00:59:51.180
So I couldn't imagine what it was.

877
00:59:51.740 --> 00:59:56.300
And he said, there's nothing in there for the perpetrator.

878
00:59:56.380 --> 00:59:58.420
And I'm like, well, of course there's not.

879
00:59:58.420 --> 01:00:00.100
I am helping the victim.

880
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.880
I mean, you know me, I am a victim's advocate, you know, and he said, I understand that.

881
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:12.100
He said, but I need you to be willing to help the victim, the perpetrator.

882
01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:14.200
And I said, that's not who I'm after.

883
01:00:14.200 --> 01:00:17.160
He said, I know that, but that's who I'm after.

884
01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:23.120
And man, that was humbling because I didn't want to hear that from him at all.

885
01:00:23.120 --> 01:00:28.040
And I had a whole plan because I know better than to argue with what the Lord's telling

886
01:00:28.040 --> 01:00:29.280
me to do.

887
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:33.260
So I knew I was going to come back and tell my ghostwriter who thought the project was

888
01:00:33.260 --> 01:00:37.960
over and she'd been paid and that she was going to refuse to do it.

889
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.120
And then I would be like, well, I tried, you know, but she said no.

890
01:00:42.120 --> 01:00:47.160
And when I called her, she said, I knew there was something missing.

891
01:00:47.160 --> 01:00:50.480
And it's just like, you know, okay, Lord, now you're just making me mad.

892
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:56.520
You know, I, I was, I had this whole plan, but he had already worked on her heart before

893
01:00:56.520 --> 01:00:58.800
he told me he was just waiting on my obedience.

894
01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:02.040
Well, we talked a little bit about what it was.

895
01:01:02.040 --> 01:01:06.120
I think she put like a page and a half from the interview we had about it.

896
01:01:06.120 --> 01:01:13.160
And my biggest fear, my very biggest fear was offending the means of the world, the

897
01:01:13.160 --> 01:01:19.400
people that were going to read that book and looking for some hope and then read that part

898
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:21.920
and be like, what is she thinking?

899
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:22.920
Right.

900
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:23.920
Right.

901
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:25.960
So I just, you know, she did it.

902
01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:28.080
It went to publish, we're done.

903
01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:29.080
So check mark.

904
01:01:29.080 --> 01:01:30.080
Okay.

905
01:01:30.080 --> 01:01:31.080
We're done with that.

906
01:01:31.080 --> 01:01:36.800
About six months later, my stepdad, who I told you had also molested me, um, had a stroke

907
01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:38.720
on New Year's Eve.

908
01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:41.880
And you know, of course we took him to the hospital, the ambulance took him to the hospital

909
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:43.760
and he never came out.

910
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:45.960
Several, um, he was there for a couple of weeks.

911
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:49.640
So, so I had made several trips to the hospital already.

912
01:01:49.640 --> 01:01:57.000
And, um, with my father, my actual father, forgiveness came very easily.

913
01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:02.640
And what I, what I struggled with with my dad were the abandonment and rejection issues.

914
01:02:02.640 --> 01:02:06.240
With my stepdad, forgiveness did not come easy.

915
01:02:06.240 --> 01:02:13.120
Forgiveness was a grueling process that the Lord walked me through over decades.

916
01:02:13.120 --> 01:02:17.320
And I had already come to the place of forgiveness for him.

917
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:23.800
But on this particular trip to the hospital, I heard the Lord say, I need you to forgive

918
01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:24.800
him.

919
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:26.080
And I said, Lord, I have forgiven him.

920
01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:27.160
How do you know that?

921
01:02:27.160 --> 01:02:28.760
And he said, no, I need you to tell him that.

922
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:32.000
Well, he was on life support, you know, they had drilled a hole in his brain.

923
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.600
I mean, he, I knew he couldn't even hear me.

924
01:02:34.600 --> 01:02:39.220
So I'm questioning Lord, I'm like, why would I do like, he can't even hear me.

925
01:02:39.220 --> 01:02:41.640
And he said, I need you to tell him.

926
01:02:41.640 --> 01:02:46.160
And the other times I was there, I never spoke this out loud because my mom was there, but

927
01:02:46.160 --> 01:02:50.640
I never spoke it out loud, but in the back of my head, I was kind of quoting that scripture

928
01:02:50.640 --> 01:02:55.240
to myself about vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, you know, like, uh-huh, see what

929
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:59.720
happens when you're, you know, don't do what you're supposed to do and all that.

930
01:02:59.720 --> 01:03:03.960
And I wasn't like excited about what he was going through, but I thought, okay, this is

931
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:07.480
what happens at the end of a life, like you've led, right?

932
01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:13.200
And when I walked in that day, when the Lord told me that I needed to tell him that I forgave

933
01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:16.400
him, something happened.

934
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:24.080
It was the most bizarre feeling for me because any other time that I was ever around him,

935
01:03:24.080 --> 01:03:25.840
I could not get near him.

936
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:29.440
I could barely look at him just because he disgusted me.

937
01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:34.600
I can't explain it other than if you've been the victim of somebody that you don't have

938
01:03:34.600 --> 01:03:38.720
a natural bond with, it's just, you just don't want to ever be around him.

939
01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:40.760
It's just a disgusting feeling.

940
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:42.880
And that's what I struggled with, with him.

941
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:48.000
When I walked into the hospital room that particular time, the only way I can describe

942
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.080
it is that I saw him through God's eyes.

943
01:03:50.080 --> 01:03:53.080
It wasn't Wendy looking at him, it was through God's eyes.

944
01:03:53.080 --> 01:03:58.280
And I saw him in such a way that the compassion overwhelmed me.

945
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:03.360
And I immediately asked the Lord, if this is the vengeance thing that you promise us

946
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:07.560
in your word, I want you to stop doing this right now.

947
01:04:07.560 --> 01:04:10.320
Like, I don't want you to punish him because of me.

948
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:11.320
I'm okay.

949
01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:12.320
You know?

950
01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:15.000
And that's when the Lord said, now is the time, you know?

951
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:21.520
So I asked my mom if she minded if I talked to him for a minute and how I know that just

952
01:04:21.520 --> 01:04:26.600
the Holy Spirit was leading is because never in a million years would I have ever touched

953
01:04:26.600 --> 01:04:27.600
him ever.

954
01:04:27.600 --> 01:04:29.840
Like, he disgusted me before, right?

955
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:36.080
But I was able to walk over to him, put my hand on his arm and literally say to him,

956
01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:41.520
Hey, I just, I don't know if you can hear me, but I just, I want you to know that I

957
01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:42.840
totally forgive you.

958
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.520
You know, we, we are good.

959
01:04:45.520 --> 01:04:50.200
And if you need to hear that, to be able to let go and know that I'm going to take care

960
01:04:50.200 --> 01:04:54.360
of mom and everything's going to be okay and you can rest in peace.

961
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:57.480
I just want you to know that I totally forgive you.

962
01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:59.360
And then I walked to the other side of the bed.

963
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:03.640
And I did not know this, but his eyes followed me

964
01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:05.360
to the other side of the bed

965
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:07.800
and he was like welling up with tears.

966
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:09.600
And I put my hand on his other arm

967
01:05:09.600 --> 01:05:11.960
and I just said, it's okay.

968
01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.680
And my mom said she had never seen him

969
01:05:14.680 --> 01:05:17.540
follow anybody in the room the whole time he had been there.

970
01:05:17.540 --> 01:05:19.320
And he certainly never welled up with tears.

971
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.480
So she's convinced that he heard what I said

972
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:23.900
and it was a couple of days later that he passed.

973
01:05:23.900 --> 01:05:28.900
So again, I felt like, okay, I was obedient,

974
01:05:29.860 --> 01:05:31.740
check mark, I'm moving on.

975
01:05:31.740 --> 01:05:33.700
I'm not on any kind of mission.

976
01:05:33.700 --> 01:05:36.780
I did what the Lord asked me to, check mark.

977
01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:40.980
So back in just doing normal everyday ministry stuff,

978
01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:44.780
the Lord started really giving me a heart

979
01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:49.780
for if I want to abolish child abuse across the board.

980
01:05:50.860 --> 01:05:55.260
And I know from research that most perpetrators

981
01:05:55.260 --> 01:06:00.260
have a hundred victims, some more before they're ever caught

982
01:06:00.700 --> 01:06:03.140
because no one wants to turn them in.

983
01:06:03.140 --> 01:06:03.980
What's the best way?

984
01:06:03.980 --> 01:06:05.580
And that's not an exaggeration too.

985
01:06:05.580 --> 01:06:06.420
No, it's not.

986
01:06:06.420 --> 01:06:09.740
It literally is a hundred plus is an average,

987
01:06:09.740 --> 01:06:11.580
like you can Google that stat.

988
01:06:11.580 --> 01:06:13.860
Because I think we say that on a podcast

989
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:17.620
and I think people hear that and go, yeah, hundreds.

990
01:06:17.620 --> 01:06:19.580
But it really, that's the number.

991
01:06:19.580 --> 01:06:20.420
It is.

992
01:06:20.420 --> 01:06:22.780
And it's hard to even wrap your mind around that

993
01:06:22.780 --> 01:06:24.980
because that's almost the size of the Christian school

994
01:06:25.180 --> 01:06:26.020
that I went to.

995
01:06:26.020 --> 01:06:28.060
You know, that's a lot of kids.

996
01:06:28.060 --> 01:06:29.900
Exactly, exactly.

997
01:06:29.900 --> 01:06:34.900
But if I want to be impactful in ending abuse, right?

998
01:06:35.860 --> 01:06:37.620
Endabuse.com.

999
01:06:37.620 --> 01:06:41.900
If I can help one perpetrator,

1000
01:06:41.900 --> 01:06:45.340
how many victims am I saving, right?

1001
01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:48.380
But it would take me helping a hundred victims

1002
01:06:48.380 --> 01:06:50.060
to save a hundred victims.

1003
01:06:50.060 --> 01:06:54.140
Well, I didn't even know like how to go about that.

1004
01:06:54.140 --> 01:06:57.340
Like I don't have a friend group of pedophiles, right?

1005
01:06:57.340 --> 01:06:58.900
I mean, I don't even know where to find them.

1006
01:06:58.900 --> 01:06:59.980
That's good.

1007
01:06:59.980 --> 01:07:03.100
Yeah, I've spent my life avoiding them

1008
01:07:03.100 --> 01:07:05.220
and keeping them away from my children.

1009
01:07:05.220 --> 01:07:06.260
And I have the little app

1010
01:07:06.260 --> 01:07:08.180
that when one moves into the subdivision,

1011
01:07:08.180 --> 01:07:09.420
you know, I get a notice.

1012
01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:12.300
I mean, I'm a victim's advocate and I'm a mama bear.

1013
01:07:12.300 --> 01:07:14.660
So I didn't even know where to start.

1014
01:07:14.660 --> 01:07:17.660
Well, someone suggested that, you know,

1015
01:07:17.660 --> 01:07:20.340
there's hopefully many of them in prison.

1016
01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:22.260
So we reached out to someone we knew

1017
01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:23.860
that did a prison ministry.

1018
01:07:24.580 --> 01:07:26.220
And in sitting down to talk to him

1019
01:07:26.220 --> 01:07:28.900
and sharing what the Lord had put on my heart,

1020
01:07:28.900 --> 01:07:30.500
he was like, wow, okay.

1021
01:07:31.620 --> 01:07:34.940
He said, I, you know, I hear what you're saying.

1022
01:07:34.940 --> 01:07:37.700
He's like, but here's going to be the problem.

1023
01:07:37.700 --> 01:07:42.420
Nobody that's there for that particular offense or crime,

1024
01:07:42.420 --> 01:07:44.180
no one admits that.

1025
01:07:44.180 --> 01:07:45.660
They all make something else up.

1026
01:07:45.660 --> 01:07:48.260
They, you know, like a man for murder or, you know, whatever.

1027
01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:49.820
They don't admit that because they're like

1028
01:07:49.820 --> 01:07:51.420
on the lowest end of the totem pole

1029
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:53.260
and they usually get killed in prison.

1030
01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:55.500
So he said, you know, let me, he's like,

1031
01:07:55.500 --> 01:07:57.340
let me just think about it and pray about it.

1032
01:07:57.340 --> 01:08:00.340
And, you know, let me just think through the logistics of it.

1033
01:08:00.340 --> 01:08:01.500
He was worried about logistics.

1034
01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:03.620
And so I'm like, okay.

1035
01:08:03.620 --> 01:08:06.460
And so again, you know, check mark, I've been obedient.

1036
01:08:06.460 --> 01:08:09.660
And so about 10 days later, he calls me.

1037
01:08:09.660 --> 01:08:14.100
He's like, Wendy, after my meeting today,

1038
01:08:14.100 --> 01:08:15.860
he does a service with them every week.

1039
01:08:15.860 --> 01:08:20.260
He said, I just mentioned your story

1040
01:08:20.260 --> 01:08:23.620
and what you're wanting to do to these guys.

1041
01:08:23.620 --> 01:08:25.460
And you could have heard a pin drop.

1042
01:08:25.460 --> 01:08:27.899
He said, in a million years,

1043
01:08:27.899 --> 01:08:32.420
I never thought anybody would ever even approach me

1044
01:08:32.420 --> 01:08:35.260
afterwards because they didn't want to be identified.

1045
01:08:35.260 --> 01:08:36.819
And he said, but one of them did.

1046
01:08:36.819 --> 01:08:38.020
And they came up and talked to me

1047
01:08:38.020 --> 01:08:39.460
and he told me what he said and everything.

1048
01:08:39.460 --> 01:08:42.500
He said, I'd like to bring you in to tell your story.

1049
01:08:42.500 --> 01:08:43.740
Are you willing to come in?

1050
01:08:43.740 --> 01:08:46.819
You know, and of course these are maximum security prisons.

1051
01:08:46.819 --> 01:08:49.380
So we had to get my husband on board with that.

1052
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:52.740
And, you know, there's a few things that I had to learn

1053
01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:55.700
and to know and, you know, I had to go and get searched

1054
01:08:55.700 --> 01:08:57.140
and, you know, all of that.

1055
01:08:57.140 --> 01:09:00.819
But I knew that it was something the Lord was doing

1056
01:09:00.819 --> 01:09:03.420
because it was not anything I would have ever thought of

1057
01:09:03.420 --> 01:09:07.779
on my own or wanted to do by any stretch.

1058
01:09:07.779 --> 01:09:11.580
When we got there, the amount of peace

1059
01:09:11.580 --> 01:09:14.060
that I had was overwhelming.

1060
01:09:14.060 --> 01:09:16.939
I thought I was going to be nervous and scared to death,

1061
01:09:16.939 --> 01:09:19.300
but I was overwhelmed with peace.

1062
01:09:20.180 --> 01:09:23.380
And they warned me, now, once you're done talking,

1063
01:09:23.380 --> 01:09:26.380
we're going to do like an altar call or whatever,

1064
01:09:26.380 --> 01:09:29.380
but don't get offended if no one responds

1065
01:09:29.380 --> 01:09:32.300
because that would then, you know,

1066
01:09:32.300 --> 01:09:34.300
pinpoint them as a perpetrator.

1067
01:09:34.300 --> 01:09:35.700
So I was like, okay.

1068
01:09:35.700 --> 01:09:38.859
So I tell my whole story, you know, about all of it.

1069
01:09:38.859 --> 01:09:42.420
And then at the very end, my friend got up

1070
01:09:42.420 --> 01:09:45.100
and, you know, kind of gave a little summary.

1071
01:09:45.100 --> 01:09:46.819
And then when he did the prayer, he said, you know,

1072
01:09:46.819 --> 01:09:48.100
Wendy's going to be up here.

1073
01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:49.859
If anybody wants to talk to her afterwards,

1074
01:09:49.859 --> 01:09:51.819
you know, we'll just be up here.

1075
01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:54.780
When we raised our head from that prayer,

1076
01:09:54.780 --> 01:09:59.780
the line of the men waiting to talk to me was to the door.

1077
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:07.000
It was so overwhelming and I wasn't sure what, what was going to happen because that was what I was told was not going to happen.

1078
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:21.000
Each one of them came up and with tears streaming down their face, told me their story of what they did to their, some to their daughter, some to their niece, some to, you know, just different.

1079
01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:46.000
And most of them were so repentant and broken. Some of them literally on their knees, repentant and broken because they heard from a victim when I said to them, if this is something that you're in here for today, then you have not crossed a line that is too far for the arms of Jesus and his grace to reach you.

1080
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:56.000
But it starts with repentance and getting on your knees and asking first and foremost, God to forgive you, but then also restoring with your, with your victim.

1081
01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:01.000
Now, of course, they're locked up for 30, 40, 50 years, so there's no restoring of the victim.

1082
01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:14.000
But every one of them, other than one, there was one like really very weird experience I have, but all of them, except for this one guy, were so repentant and asking me to reach out to their victims for them.

1083
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:18.000
Like, can you get her your book? Can you do something to help her?

1084
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:26.000
It was, it was an unbelievable response so much so that we didn't even have time to finish the number of people that were in the line.

1085
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:29.000
Like they had to, you know, use the room for something else.

1086
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:35.000
And so I, I did that like in three different prisons right before COVID hit and then they, you know, shut everything down.

1087
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:40.000
So I don't know what the Lord is going to do with that, but here's, here's why I'm telling you that.

1088
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:52.000
I would never in a million years have dreamed that that would even be something that I would ever get to the place that I would even be okay with, even in obedience to the Lord.

1089
01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:59.000
I'd be like, that's just going to have to be something that, you know, it's on the list of things I've got to apologize for when I get to heaven, you know, just add it to the list.

1090
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:15.000
But when you see the Lord use your crazy life that was rejected and abandoned by your own father, and he discounts you like the trash.

1091
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:41.000
But then you see God, our father use that to potentially change the lives of countless number of victims because one man heard your story and saw the damage firsthand and what he actually did by his actions and that he never was going to do that again.

1092
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:43.000
I don't know.

1093
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:53.000
That is very motivating for me because it then again, one of those crazy little sayings, but it gives a purpose for all that pain I went through.

1094
01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:54.000
Right.

1095
01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:07.000
And I can say that with authority because my pain was very real, but my purpose is so much more real than my pain and my purpose is going to last until the Lord takes me home.

1096
01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:09.000
My pain was for a period of time.

1097
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:11.000
I could have chosen to live in that pain.

1098
01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:16.000
I could still be living in that pain and nobody would blame me for that.

1099
01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:20.000
I have a perfect reason and a perfect excuse to live in that pain.

1100
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000
Nobody would feel bad for me.

1101
01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:24.000
I would probably still be on your podcast, right?

1102
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000
And you'd be like, man, I can't believe that.

1103
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.000
And nobody would be upset with that.

1104
01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:40.000
But when you can turn that pain into something that is really going to make a difference and my difference making is going to be even more effective.

1105
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.000
If I can say a hundred victims at a time by reaching one perpetrator.

1106
01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:45.000
Right.

1107
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:47.000
So God had to get me to that place.

1108
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:51.000
And it only came with being willing to be obedient to whatever it was.

1109
01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:56.000
He said, even something as little as I need you to add a page and a half to your book.

1110
01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:57.000
I'm like, okay.

1111
01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:58.000
You know?

1112
01:13:58.000 --> 01:13:59.000
Okay.

1113
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:00.000
Check.

1114
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:01.000
I'm done.

1115
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.000
Not wanting to do it again, but not wanting to not be obedient.

1116
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:04.000
Right.

1117
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:12.000
And then when I was obedient in that, he then had me do it face to face with a perpetrator that hurt me.

1118
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:14.000
And then it was like, okay, check.

1119
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:17.000
Now, what could he do with that same obedience?

1120
01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:27.000
If I was willing to put myself out there and be the arms of grace to those perpetrators who everyone else has discounted.

1121
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:37.000
How many victims, how many of the people watching the show right now, their children may not be perpetrated upon because whoever was going to get to their child.

1122
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:38.000
Heard my story.

1123
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:39.000
Right.

1124
01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:41.000
And said, man, okay.

1125
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:42.000
I'm not.

1126
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:44.000
There is hope for me.

1127
01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:45.000
You know?

1128
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:51.000
And so that's the reason that I never want to say I'm not going to do something.

1129
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:57.000
If God tells me to do something, I want to be available to him to do whatever it is he's asking me to do and just be a vessel.

1130
01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:58.000
Right.

1131
01:14:58.000 --> 01:14:59.000
Yeah.

1132
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.460
Yeah. I mean, and to be honest, yeah, it's a, it's a challenging thing.

1133
01:15:03.460 --> 01:15:06.160
Cause like I, I struggled to wrap my mind around it because I think there's so

1134
01:15:06.160 --> 01:15:10.800
much of, you know, I'm curious.

1135
01:15:11.480 --> 01:15:15.940
So I, again, it's hard because all these words get used in a weaponized way.

1136
01:15:15.940 --> 01:15:20.680
So like when we talk forgiveness, restoration, so I'm curious from your

1137
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:27.860
perspective, cause I think a lot of what my, I want to say pushback, but my, my

1138
01:15:27.860 --> 01:15:33.240
thought when I hear people talk about restoration ministries, is it putting

1139
01:15:33.260 --> 01:15:36.900
somebody who has committed an offense because recidivism is also very high

1140
01:15:36.900 --> 01:15:41.380
statistically, you know, what's the, what's the difference in your mind there

1141
01:15:41.380 --> 01:15:46.420
when you're talking restoration or you're talking you know, repentance or,

1142
01:15:46.420 --> 01:15:47.380
or things like that.

1143
01:15:47.700 --> 01:15:51.500
You know, I had Jimmy Hinton on who, who, you know, we were talking about

1144
01:15:51.500 --> 01:15:56.220
restoration at length and he was talking about one of the things that predators

1145
01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:58.540
and perpetrators do is they're very compliant.

1146
01:15:58.580 --> 01:16:03.980
They're very say what they need to say, you know, to appease people that before

1147
01:16:03.980 --> 01:16:07.940
abusing their grooming four or five different groups of people to make this

1148
01:16:07.940 --> 01:16:08.380
happen.

1149
01:16:08.780 --> 01:16:13.100
So, you know, when you talk about restoration, is that purely referring to

1150
01:16:13.100 --> 01:16:15.820
their personal relationship with God?

1151
01:16:15.820 --> 01:16:19.140
Or is it saying, you know, Oh, can they change in a way where they could be

1152
01:16:19.140 --> 01:16:22.860
reinstated into a place of authority or leadership?

1153
01:16:23.020 --> 01:16:23.580
You know, cause that's

1154
01:16:24.460 --> 01:16:26.140
no, no, no, no, no, no.

1155
01:16:26.340 --> 01:16:33.020
This has to do with their soul and their eternal, um, their, their eternity.

1156
01:16:33.380 --> 01:16:39.820
Um, so many of them have such disdain for themselves that they don't even

1157
01:16:39.820 --> 01:16:41.820
believe God wants them, you know?

1158
01:16:41.860 --> 01:16:44.260
And so that's, that's what I'm after.

1159
01:16:44.660 --> 01:16:46.100
No, absolutely not.

1160
01:16:46.140 --> 01:16:53.500
None of them, zero of them, no matter how compliant, repentant, sad, sobbing,

1161
01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:57.460
you know, they, they could go on a world tour telling their story.

1162
01:16:57.460 --> 01:16:58.020
That's great.

1163
01:16:58.060 --> 01:17:00.980
You will never be in a room alone with my child, period, end of story.

1164
01:17:01.020 --> 01:17:05.100
No, that's called consequences for your sin, which is also biblical.

1165
01:17:05.460 --> 01:17:13.140
There is absolutely no way that I would ever advocate for a perpetrator to ever

1166
01:17:13.140 --> 01:17:18.700
be put back in any position of authority or to have any contact with children

1167
01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:21.140
that wasn't highly supervised.

1168
01:17:21.140 --> 01:17:23.820
Like in other words, like they could never be a Sunday school teacher.

1169
01:17:23.820 --> 01:17:26.740
They can never teach in a school anywhere, anywhere, like

1170
01:17:26.740 --> 01:17:28.380
never be a teacher of any kind.

1171
01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:30.500
They could teach other men in prison.

1172
01:17:30.500 --> 01:17:33.260
They could go in and tell their story in a prison and maybe give

1173
01:17:33.260 --> 01:17:34.700
that same hope to other men.

1174
01:17:34.860 --> 01:17:37.780
But as far as children, absolutely not.

1175
01:17:38.060 --> 01:17:43.540
It's, it's no different than the consequences of anyone's sin.

1176
01:17:43.540 --> 01:17:43.900
Right.

1177
01:17:43.940 --> 01:17:46.780
You know, if you steal, you're not going to work in a bank, you know?

1178
01:17:46.900 --> 01:17:47.780
Yeah, probably not.

1179
01:17:47.900 --> 01:17:48.900
Yes, exactly.

1180
01:17:49.100 --> 01:17:53.460
And, and if you, if you get pregnant before you get married and you don't

1181
01:17:53.460 --> 01:17:59.140
have an abortion, that is a lifelong remembrance of, you know, there's

1182
01:17:59.140 --> 01:18:02.740
probably God put that in an order for a reason, you know, so now a single mom

1183
01:18:02.740 --> 01:18:06.580
might have a lot more struggle than she would had she waited, gotten married,

1184
01:18:06.580 --> 01:18:08.580
you know, and then had a baby, you know, because then she'd have

1185
01:18:08.580 --> 01:18:10.380
someone to help her, whatever it is.

1186
01:18:10.740 --> 01:18:13.300
But that sin is sin.

1187
01:18:13.380 --> 01:18:15.220
Like sin has consequences.

1188
01:18:15.220 --> 01:18:17.540
Some consequences are much higher.

1189
01:18:18.020 --> 01:18:21.500
You know, uh, some, but somebody says, you know, like a little white

1190
01:18:21.500 --> 01:18:23.780
lie is not as big of a sin.

1191
01:18:23.820 --> 01:18:29.220
Well, the more someone gets away with something, I think I would rather have

1192
01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:32.980
the consequence up front because then it reminds me, don't be doing that again.

1193
01:18:33.220 --> 01:18:37.340
The reason I'm sitting here today is because my dad's sin was never caught up

1194
01:18:37.340 --> 01:18:44.620
with, he never, ever got busted for all of the sexual moves forward that he took

1195
01:18:44.900 --> 01:18:48.420
to where it empowered him in such a way that he thought he could get away

1196
01:18:48.420 --> 01:18:50.140
with it, doing something to me.

1197
01:18:50.220 --> 01:18:52.980
And so it, it totally changed my whole life.

1198
01:18:53.180 --> 01:18:53.620
Right.

1199
01:18:53.740 --> 01:18:59.460
So I would rather, you know, get a hold of the consequence of the sin immediately

1200
01:18:59.500 --> 01:19:01.260
than to think I got away with it.

1201
01:19:01.260 --> 01:19:01.500
Right.

1202
01:19:01.500 --> 01:19:02.660
Cause you learn faster.

1203
01:19:02.860 --> 01:19:05.580
So sin is going to catch up with everyone.

1204
01:19:05.580 --> 01:19:10.940
Some sin in our human world is, has a lot higher consequences, right?

1205
01:19:10.980 --> 01:19:14.860
You murder somebody, chances are you may not be around much longer

1206
01:19:14.860 --> 01:19:16.180
if you get the death penalty.

1207
01:19:16.180 --> 01:19:16.940
Right, right.

1208
01:19:16.980 --> 01:19:22.500
So there are levels of sin humanly, but to God, we all fall short of his glory.

1209
01:19:22.620 --> 01:19:30.020
So I can't say that my sin is any less, um, you know, qualifying than a

1210
01:19:30.020 --> 01:19:36.140
perpetrator's sin in my not being qualified for heaven, right?

1211
01:19:36.340 --> 01:19:42.060
I still have to have the same blood that Jesus shed for me and for him, that blood.

1212
01:19:42.060 --> 01:19:49.780
And if we as Christians think that that blood that covers our sin is not strong

1213
01:19:49.780 --> 01:19:52.220
enough to cover their sin, we're in trouble.

1214
01:19:52.700 --> 01:19:56.700
And so that's what I'm, that's, that's what I'm talking about is giving them the

1215
01:19:56.700 --> 01:19:59.900
hope that we are all in that same category.

1216
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:03.440
of sinners and falling short of God's glory,

1217
01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:05.080
of God's righteousness.

1218
01:20:05.080 --> 01:20:07.660
And he has not discarded you

1219
01:20:07.660 --> 01:20:09.940
if you're willing to be repentant.

1220
01:20:09.940 --> 01:20:10.960
That's what I'm saying.

1221
01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:14.280
But most of them believe that God,

1222
01:20:14.280 --> 01:20:16.040
you know, nobody else wants them.

1223
01:20:16.040 --> 01:20:17.880
So God must not either.

1224
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:20.080
And see, that was, I struggled with that.

1225
01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:24.040
When my own father, and I gotta tell you this story,

1226
01:20:24.040 --> 01:20:25.660
this is something God's done recently,

1227
01:20:25.660 --> 01:20:27.720
which just blew my mind

1228
01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:32.080
because I had been thinking about this wrong for so long.

1229
01:20:32.080 --> 01:20:34.080
And God finally got me to a place

1230
01:20:34.080 --> 01:20:36.080
where he could tell me and set me straight.

1231
01:20:36.080 --> 01:20:36.920
It was beautiful.

1232
01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:41.160
But when my dad rejected me,

1233
01:20:41.160 --> 01:20:44.180
well, and my pastor rejected me,

1234
01:20:44.180 --> 01:20:46.680
I was convinced, well, God doesn't want me either, right?

1235
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:49.240
Because that's just a natural thing to believe.

1236
01:20:49.240 --> 01:20:50.080
Okay.

1237
01:20:50.080 --> 01:20:53.780
So I finally got to the place where I said,

1238
01:20:54.660 --> 01:20:59.380
okay, I'm actually now thankful that my dad,

1239
01:20:59.380 --> 01:21:04.020
my earthly dad, did not love me,

1240
01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:06.700
wanted him to, and give me the approval

1241
01:21:06.700 --> 01:21:07.780
that I wanted him to,

1242
01:21:07.780 --> 01:21:10.860
because that rejection drove me

1243
01:21:10.860 --> 01:21:14.680
to then fill that void with another dad,

1244
01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.060
which is then what led me to my relationship

1245
01:21:17.060 --> 01:21:18.640
with my heavenly father.

1246
01:21:18.640 --> 01:21:21.460
And so now, because of my dad's own abandonment

1247
01:21:21.460 --> 01:21:23.060
and rejection towards me,

1248
01:21:23.060 --> 01:21:24.580
now I have a relationship with God

1249
01:21:24.580 --> 01:21:25.820
I would never have had,

1250
01:21:25.820 --> 01:21:28.100
had my dad given me what I wanted

1251
01:21:28.100 --> 01:21:30.260
because I would have settled for that, right?

1252
01:21:30.260 --> 01:21:32.320
And so that was a good place to be

1253
01:21:32.320 --> 01:21:34.520
for many, many, many years for me.

1254
01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:36.780
It was recently, actually I was in my car

1255
01:21:36.780 --> 01:21:38.780
driving to Atlanta,

1256
01:21:38.780 --> 01:21:40.640
and the Lord showed me so clearly.

1257
01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:42.100
And I just, I was so excited.

1258
01:21:42.100 --> 01:21:44.200
I literally had, because I was driving on the highway,

1259
01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:46.660
so I had to just turn my phone on and record myself.

1260
01:21:46.660 --> 01:21:48.300
So I would never forget this.

1261
01:21:48.300 --> 01:21:52.980
But he said, sweetheart, you've had it backwards.

1262
01:21:53.800 --> 01:21:56.860
You have never been rejected by your dad, ever.

1263
01:21:56.860 --> 01:22:00.060
He said, I've always been your true father.

1264
01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:02.340
What I did was I gave this man

1265
01:22:02.340 --> 01:22:05.040
that I put on the earth an opportunity

1266
01:22:05.040 --> 01:22:09.540
to be a representation of me to you.

1267
01:22:09.540 --> 01:22:11.700
And he failed miserably,

1268
01:22:11.700 --> 01:22:15.220
but you've never been rejected by your father

1269
01:22:15.220 --> 01:22:17.260
because I've always been your true father.

1270
01:22:17.260 --> 01:22:20.060
And I thought all those feelings

1271
01:22:20.060 --> 01:22:22.540
of being the black sheep and the abandonment,

1272
01:22:23.180 --> 01:22:24.740
it just was gone.

1273
01:22:24.740 --> 01:22:27.260
It was so unbelievable.

1274
01:22:27.260 --> 01:22:30.260
I'm like, okay, I don't know why it took me so long

1275
01:22:30.260 --> 01:22:31.980
to get to this place where then now

1276
01:22:31.980 --> 01:22:33.300
you can share this with me,

1277
01:22:33.300 --> 01:22:38.060
but I'm so grateful because this person

1278
01:22:38.060 --> 01:22:42.420
who was involved in my birth,

1279
01:22:43.340 --> 01:22:46.700
he just totally missed the mark

1280
01:22:46.700 --> 01:22:49.900
in showing me what a dad is.

1281
01:22:49.940 --> 01:22:51.780
And that has nothing to do

1282
01:22:51.780 --> 01:22:55.080
with how God feels about me at all, nothing.

1283
01:22:55.080 --> 01:22:59.380
So I am so thankful that I was finally able

1284
01:22:59.380 --> 01:23:00.900
to receive that from the Lord

1285
01:23:00.900 --> 01:23:03.300
because that changed everything.

1286
01:23:03.300 --> 01:23:05.300
The abandonment and the rejection,

1287
01:23:05.300 --> 01:23:09.020
that is just, I mean, when the creator of the universe

1288
01:23:09.020 --> 01:23:11.200
who created everything you see

1289
01:23:11.200 --> 01:23:12.800
and stuff we don't even know yet,

1290
01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:13.780
I mean, the Hubble telescope

1291
01:23:13.780 --> 01:23:16.060
is only so many light years away, right?

1292
01:23:16.060 --> 01:23:18.140
They still haven't discovered everything.

1293
01:23:18.140 --> 01:23:22.060
But he loves me and never rejected or abandoned me.

1294
01:23:22.060 --> 01:23:24.940
And I mean, that's pretty overwhelming.

1295
01:23:24.940 --> 01:23:27.420
It's hard to wrap my blonde hair around, right?

1296
01:23:27.420 --> 01:23:31.460
It's just very, very difficult to really fathom that.

1297
01:23:31.460 --> 01:23:33.700
But that's my dad.

1298
01:23:33.700 --> 01:23:38.700
That is not this man who did all this horrible stuff to me.

1299
01:23:39.340 --> 01:23:42.260
He's the one that God gave a chance

1300
01:23:42.260 --> 01:23:44.260
to show me who God was,

1301
01:23:44.260 --> 01:23:46.820
but he just missed the mark tremendously.

1302
01:23:48.740 --> 01:23:52.520
There's a lot to chew on in these last 30 minutes.

1303
01:23:52.520 --> 01:23:55.460
And I'm curious for anybody who wants to,

1304
01:23:55.460 --> 01:23:58.000
keep up with your story, follow up with you,

1305
01:23:58.000 --> 01:23:59.500
be able to see the things that you're doing

1306
01:23:59.500 --> 01:24:03.560
and hear more from your journey now,

1307
01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:05.300
what's the best place for them to do that,

1308
01:24:05.300 --> 01:24:06.860
to connect with you?

1309
01:24:06.860 --> 01:24:11.180
We have a podcast that is called Truth Talk with Wendy.

1310
01:24:11.180 --> 01:24:12.020
Yeah.

1311
01:24:12.020 --> 01:24:12.860
Somewhere back there.

1312
01:24:12.860 --> 01:24:14.900
Yeah, I know.

1313
01:24:14.900 --> 01:24:15.740
We're trying to do,

1314
01:24:15.740 --> 01:24:19.620
I'm gonna run this on my podcast as well, hopefully.

1315
01:24:19.620 --> 01:24:21.420
But yeah, Truth Talk with Wendy.

1316
01:24:21.420 --> 01:24:24.340
The basic premise of it is we talk about faith,

1317
01:24:24.340 --> 01:24:26.420
family and freedom through the lens of scripture

1318
01:24:26.420 --> 01:24:31.420
with an emphasis on how a victim of childhood sexual abuse,

1319
01:24:32.260 --> 01:24:34.380
how we see those things in the world.

1320
01:24:34.380 --> 01:24:36.140
Because like we've talked about,

1321
01:24:36.140 --> 01:24:38.220
it affects how you trust people.

1322
01:24:38.220 --> 01:24:39.580
It affects how you parent.

1323
01:24:39.580 --> 01:24:42.020
It affects a lot of things in your life.

1324
01:24:42.020 --> 01:24:44.980
So we go through just different issues that come up.

1325
01:24:44.980 --> 01:24:49.380
Some are about faith, some are about family stuff.

1326
01:24:49.380 --> 01:24:53.300
I just dropped my second son off at college.

1327
01:24:53.300 --> 01:24:57.060
It was like devastating and why it's so much harder

1328
01:24:57.060 --> 01:24:59.380
than some of my friends are counting down

1329
01:24:59.380 --> 01:25:00.620
until their kids are up.

1330
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:04.160
of the house, you know, but like for me, it's just, it's, you know, so we just talk about

1331
01:25:04.160 --> 01:25:09.520
different things. And then all the political craziness is going on. We talk about different

1332
01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:16.480
things. I just interviewed the woman that is just announced her candidacy to run up against Dan

1333
01:25:16.480 --> 01:25:22.080
Patrick, who was the Texas lieutenant governor, and he's not been doing everything he's supposed

1334
01:25:22.080 --> 01:25:26.880
to do. And so she's running up against him. And she's big involved in sex trafficking and has

1335
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:32.000
been before we ever even knew what sex trafficking was. I mean, she's an amazing godly Christian

1336
01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:35.920
woman. And so, you know, we'll have, you know, different people on to talk about different

1337
01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:44.160
issues, but all through the lens of people who are recovering from, because I don't ever think

1338
01:25:44.160 --> 01:25:48.960
that we are totally healed. My husband calls this the gift that keeps on giving. It is, there's

1339
01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:53.920
always in something that we're having, you know, and it's a new struggle that we didn't even know

1340
01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:59.040
that was affecting us that way. But I think it's part of just our journey with the Lord and how we

1341
01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:04.240
walk with him. And like I said, you know, just a couple months ago, he revealed something totally

1342
01:26:04.240 --> 01:26:08.640
new to me. And it was revolutionary for my thinking. You know what I mean? How do you,

1343
01:26:08.640 --> 01:26:14.320
how do you change an almost 52 year old's mind about something? You know, it's, it's a process,

1344
01:26:14.320 --> 01:26:18.800
it's a journey. And I wouldn't have received that not, you know, four or five years ago,

1345
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:24.320
would not have been in a position to even hear him say that. So I just think there's, there's so

1346
01:26:24.320 --> 01:26:30.160
many of us, unfortunately, that have been through something like this. Not all of them have been in

1347
01:26:30.160 --> 01:26:38.160
the church. Unfortunately, many have. And we have a tendency to want to blame God. Well, God did not

1348
01:26:38.160 --> 01:26:43.280
molest me. God did not abandon me. God did not reject me. That was something man did. And no

1349
01:26:43.280 --> 01:26:48.000
matter where we go, or what environment we're in, whether it's a university, whether it's the

1350
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:53.360
grocery store, someone is going to treat us in a way we should not be treated. So we have to

1351
01:26:53.360 --> 01:26:58.560
decide for ourselves, you know, how are we going to respond to that? And for me, the only thing

1352
01:26:58.560 --> 01:27:06.240
that's kept me going is my faith in the Lord. And I think even that is a gift from him. I don't

1353
01:27:06.240 --> 01:27:10.240
believe, I don't take my faith for granted. Every day when I wake up and I still believe in him,

1354
01:27:10.240 --> 01:27:16.960
I'm thankful because I have every reason to not. And I'm thankful that he still gives me

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my faith every day and then I exercise it. You know, it's not something I take for granted

1356
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because at any point in time, I think I could easily talk myself out of it. And I don't want

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to. The alternative for me, it's not an alternative. So I'm thankful that he keeps revealing himself to

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me over and over and over. If you're listening, be sure to check out all the links that I have below

1359
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the book, the website, and connect there and the podcast as well. We'll make sure we link out to

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that as well. But thank you so much for making this happen. I know it's been a journey of its

1361
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own making this all line up, but I'm so glad it did. And thanks for talking to me for so long.

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It's been awesome and a lot to think about, a lot of challenging thoughts. And I like

1363
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conversations like this that, you know, make people think through these things. What do they

1364
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believe? What do they think? What do they understand about these situations? So

1365
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thanks again for sharing. Well, I appreciate you having me on and I'm so excited about what you're

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doing and even watching your own personal journey. You know, I don't think the Lord's done with you

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either. I think that he's, you know, using you in such a mighty way and bringing light to things

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that have been hidden for so long. And now I think people are finding that they can, you know,

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speak up and not be, you know, pushed aside and people are believing their story. And, you know,

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I think that because the church didn't do what they were supposed to do, God used things like

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the Me Too movement and all the stuff going on in Hollywood. He's like, no, no, no. These are

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my children. We're not going to be doing this to them. So if the church isn't going to say

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something first, you know, then this is how I'm going to expose it. And then I just think,

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you know, you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing.