All righty then, this is the basic USPTO website.
Everybody's familiar with how to get here.
In case anybody is not for some reason,
it is now in the chat.
How done.
All right, trademarks.
We're going into trademarks
and then we're going into search, right?
So we click on search trademarks.
Now we go back to the screen that we've all seen before.
We click on the search button
and now we're going to do a,
you're not gonna do a basic word search
because a logo is not a word, right?
It's a logo, it's a design.
So for that reason, if I actually,
let me just share my screen.
I'll just say famous design logos.
Let's give you some examples of images
of famous design logos.
Okay, so can everybody see like my Google search, right?
So these are like examples of famous design logos.
And like, so some might be saying, well, hold it, Google.
Like Google is a wordmark.
It's like, yeah, it is a wordmark,
but you notice what they did here
was they did something similar to what Mary did.
Like Mary used that Bodhi
and she made that into an actual character in the word.
So she actually has,
she can have protection of the wordmark
and she can have protection of the logo.
The logo would be the Bodhi inside the word.
So that would be a logo.
And then the Bodhi alone,
if she uses the Bodhi alone, completely alone,
then that would be protectable too, right?
But it depends upon how she using it.
So in any case, in this case for Google,
they have the wordmark Google,
but they also have this other version here
that's in color.
So they want to be able to own the color version.
So they actually have a trademark
for the color version as well.
They do it different ways.
And as you can imagine,
Google has a ridiculous number of trademarks,
but if you just scroll down,
you'll see there's the Apple, right?
Second, you see that, who do you think of?
The corporation Apple, right?
So, and that right there,
the green woman that looks like she's yelling
at everybody to come in and get a cup of coffee, right?
That one right there, that is Starbucks, right?
So, the second you look at them,
that's the whole thing with these trademarks.
And this, what I find is amazing
is that Target actually has a trademark on a Target.
That to me is amazing,
but that was really smart the way they did that.
Very famous trademark.
Everybody knows it.
The night, the golden arches.
And for those who have watched coming to America,
the golden arcs, you know, remember that?
This isn't McDonald's, it's McDowell's.
So, if you want to see a really good,
funny trademark movie, that's in coming to America,
although there's a lot of inappropriate parts to it,
but still there's a lot of funny trademark stuff.
Twitter, there's their bird thing, right?
So, when you put all that together,
let me make sure that you're still looking
at the same screen that I am trying to share with you
by refreshing for you.
Okay, so those are all designs.
Those aren't word marks.
So, you can't search that under the first link here.
I've had people, you know,
say I'm looking for the Twitter bird,
but I can't find it under the word search.
So, right, because it's not a word, right?
So, go to the second one.
Second one's for designs.
So, now you click on the design.
All right, now what I'm going to do,
let me back up a second.
I think I'm going to do something first.
Let me do a really quick,
trying to think of a really good example for you.
So, what if I just type in Swoosh?
Let's see.
Actually, let me make it even better.
I'll do Nike
as the owner
of the mark, and then Swoosh.
Oh, now somebody should be able to tell me what I did wrong.
Does anybody see what I did wrong there?
Dan, what did I do wrong?
Or instead of and.
You got it, there it is.
Very good.
Now you submit the query.
Now, see how much better that is?
Now you can actually see the Swoosh.
There it is, pops right up.
That was the difference between like 25,000 returns.
And this is what you're going to run into.
You're going to start doing your own searches
and you're going to go, there are too many results.
When I did a search for Nike and the Swoosh,
I got 4,597 trademarks.
And no, it's because you search for Swoosh alone
and Nike alone.
And so what you want to do instead.
is just make sure you have that operator change to end.
Now, boom, shows right up real fast, right?
Okay, so now let's just grab one of the swooshes here.
It's probably, actually, that's a word mark.
Let me do this one too.
That's the swoosh mark too.
Yeah, I'm gonna show you something.
Yeah, all right, this is a really good example.
Okay, so what we just did was we searched
for the term swoosh in any field, right?
But if you search instead under description of mark,
you see that there, description of mark?
If I search for swoosh under description of mark,
let's see what we get.
Now, these are old ones.
There's a swoosh.
You see the swoosh there?
See how all of a sudden the swoosh pops up?
I'm gonna show you why that is.
Now, this is an old one of theirs.
We'll show you some newer ones in a second,
but I'm gonna show you why this is.
I wanna give you a better example.
This is a boring example.
Let me see, maybe the chance will be better.
Yeah, that's a better example.
It's easier to see, okay.
All right, do you see right over here in this field here,
the design search code?
See that?
It says shields or crests for figurative elements
contained therein or superimposed thereon.
It's kind of laying out exactly what that,
what this thing here is.
It's kind of telling you how they're searching
for that term, right?
The examiner, how's this search,
how's he actually going to search for that term?
Now, there's another field that is actually really helpful
is under here.
See the terminology description of mark.
Do you see that?
I just highlighted it.
Let me make it bigger so everybody can see it.
All right, do you see that right there?
Description of mark, right?
Okay, anytime you file a trademark application,
you remember from day number two,
when you file a trademark application,
if you file it on the design,
you have to describe it, okay?
So if you actually search for the word
in the description of the trademark,
you can actually find the results as logos.
Does that make sense?
Let me say it again.
I'll say it slower, okay?
When you file a trademark application,
you have to describe the logo.
If you actually do a new trademark application,
if I went back right now,
let me shrink my screen a little bit,
minus, minus, minus.
Go back here, go to trademarks, apply online.
And let's say I was going to file a brand new application.
I'm not gonna do the whole thing for you,
but once you click that button and you register,
you'll come up to a screen that says My USPTO.
You'll log in with your government account
and you'll enter in your USPTO info.
Once you do that, you'll get a pass,
you'll enter in your password
and then your cell phone old thing,
or you'll get an email, you do all that.
Once you've gone through all of that,
you're gonna fill out a new trademark application.
Once you fill out your new trademark application,
one of the fields in there is going to be
for you to actually enter a description of your trademark.
Does everybody remember that?
Or do you want me to show you
how to follow the trademark application again
and show you where to enter that field?
You remember that?
So when you file the application,
it says enter description of trademark, right?
That's all it says.
And so you just type in a swoosh,
or you say, like, if it's a crown,
you'd say a crown, right?
You just type it in.
You just describe what your logo looks like.
So let's do Mary's example.
Unmute Mary, let me unmute Mary.
So let's go to Mary's example.
All right, so Mary, what's your,
is it Innovative Therapy again?
Innovative Therapy PC.
The attorney told me I had to use PC all the time.
You don't, but anyways, that's all right.
Okay, so, all right, so this is,
let me share the screen here,
just because this is gonna be hilarious
to actually figure out.
Let's see.
So you stop, there you go, screen sharing.
So there it is.
So right here, we have Innovative Therapy.
So now, here's that,
the.
Bodhi, right?
So the Bodhi is inside of this,
inside of the word innovative therapy PC.
So if she were going to try to get a registration
just for the Bodhi alone,
like she would have to describe that.
Okay, so now somebody tell me,
would that be in the case, stop share screen,
how would you describe that?
Like type in the chat,
how would you, Mary, you can't help.
Cause this is yours, you know how to describe it,
you did it right.
So other people type in the chat,
how would you describe,
this would be a really good example for everybody
cause you're going to have to do this with your own logos.
So why not do it with somebody who actually,
as you know, is doing this.
So this, just the character there,
how would you describe that character?
When I use him is, I actually use him with the son
cause it's supposed to represent.
I'm just asking them how they describe
the person reaching out, that's it.
Okay.
That's all.
All right, so would that be in the case,
people type in the chat.
Let's see, human body.
Wow, okay, let's see.
Purple silhouette of human figure with one knee raised
and one, who wrote that?
Oh my gosh.
That's like, I want that person to be my lawyer.
Like, that was really good, that was like perfect.
Image of body as representative of a letter, okay.
Single color body with one arm reaching up to the sky
and one knee lifted as though they are jumping
to grab a star.
All right, that's awesome.
Yeah, these are good examples.
Okay.
So as we just kind of went through,
you'll see there's a lot of different ways
you can describe this thing, right?
But I gotta say that the one of the,
who's Angela, right?
Was that the first one?
There was one-
You gotta look in the chat,
Jill's got a pretty good one going on too.
Single color body with one arm reaching up to the sky
and one knee lifted as though they are jumping
to grab a star.
Yeah, what I would say is just remove the star thing,
but I think that's because you see the sun in the picture.
So in any case, if we were just going for the person there
without that sun there,
then I would say, yeah, absolutely, that nailed it.
You know, I think what Jill said,
nails it, just get rid of the star.
But what I'm doing by showing you this is,
there's a lot of different ways you can describe it, okay?
Like there's a lot,
we have a number of different people here
and a number of you came out
with really good descriptions.
But I would say you don't,
what you don't wanna do is make it so broad
that you have no coverage,
but you don't wanna make it so narrow
that you have no coverage.
So for that reason, like human body, that wouldn't work.
I mean, that's gonna cover like basically everything
from a dead body, you know, from CSI
to like a person who's newly born to anything else.
So it has to be more descriptive than that.
But I really like this Angela's one,
purple silhouette of human figure.
And look, Mary, like she's got the gender neutral thing
there, human figure, it doesn't say male or female.
Look at that, she got it.
With one knee raised and one arm up.
So that's pretty good.
All right, so with that, that's basically a description.
So why did I walk us through that exercise?
Let me explain to you why we did that.
So I'm gonna stop sharing again
and then share my screen again,
just to make sure you all can see.
Okay, let's go back to searching, trademarks, search.
And when I go on, click on search
and I click on word search.
And let's just say, oh, crown, perfect example.
There are so many crowns out there.
So just description of mark.
Design description would be good too.
Yeah, cause it's a design mark.
So if you select design description
and put in the word crown,
yeah, I knew there was gonna be a ton.
Okay, all right.
So let me just click one of them.
All right, perfect.
Okay, here we go.
So let me show you what I did.
I selected the word that describes
what the logo looks like, right?
So I said crown.
And as you can imagine,
there's like so many trademarks on crowns.
There's a ridiculous number of them.
So you're gonna have to be more precise than a crown.
But if you wanna kind of determine
whether or not you potentially infringe
and you type crown,
then anything that has a crown should pop up.
All right.
Now remember, just like I told you from day one,
do not rely upon.
your own searches, what I would do is I would do your own searches to knock out things that are
obviously not good. You know, that's easy. Like, so if you have 10 potential trademarks or 10
potential logos, and you search for crown and you go, Oh my gosh, there's like 40,000 trademarks
with crowns in them. Nevermind, I'm not going for crowns. You know, that just tells you, you just
saved yourself the money of going to a lawyer and saying, Hey, would you search for this crown?
It's like, you know, you're like, all right, nevermind. Let's look for something else.
Right. So that that's done. But what you don't do is you don't do a search here and then say,
well, I couldn't find it. Therefore it must be clear. You're not an expert in the field.
Right. Like just, just because like, you know, how to take cold medicine doesn't mean that if,
if you have like 106 fever, you're just like, Oh, I'll just take cold medicine. It's like,
no, there's something wrong. You should see an expert. Right. So there's a difference. His name's
Jesus. But anyways what I would do is I would make sure that if you do your first top level search
and it looks clear, if you're searching for multiple things, narrow it down to ones that
look like they're good. And then bring that to your attorney to make sure that they know
what they're, that they're clearing it for you. That's going to serve you for multiple reasons.
One is it's going to make it. So you, you feel more confident that you're known and friends,
but the second one is you're relying upon the legal opinion of an attorney.
So if somebody comes out and said, you willfully infringe my trademark,
you just show them the letter from your lawyer. You say, no, my lawyer said that I did not
infringe. So maybe I do infringe, but I can't possibly willful infringe. If I was following
the instruction of an expert, like, how do you say that myself as a commonplace individual who
does not understand trademark law, like a lawyer who relied upon the opinion of a lawyer, how do
you say that I willfully infringed? If I relied upon the opinion of an expert, that doesn't make
sense. And that will get you out of that'll typically get you out of the situation where
you're, you're looking at willful infringement, you know, it'll change it to, yeah, maybe you are
infringing, but again, now you're not looking at paying attorney's fees of the other party.
You're not potentially paying treble damages for infringement because you relied upon the,
the opinion of an expert. Okay. So I typed in the word crown. Then I looked up design description.
Why did I look up design description? Cause every single person that files a trademark on a logo
is going to have to describe the logo. And it's kind of silly. If you, if you do a trademark
application for a crown for this, and you don't use the word crown, I mean, what are you going
to say? Like a rectangular object, having pointed portions on the very top that can potentially be
worn upon a person's head. Like now just say crown. Like, I mean, are there some people out
there that might describe it the way I just said? Yup. And that's why you want to get a professional
searcher also when you're ready to go forward, because they'll search, not just the word crown,
they'll search anything that could potentially be interpreted to be a crown. Okay. And they're not
just going to search for words. They actually have design codes so that all crowns are going
to fall under a specific design search code. So you see over here crowns. So they they've got,
there are codes for everything. When you actually file a trademark application,
they categorize what you filed into a specific, a specific category. So they say crowns belong
in this section, you know, like circles belong in that section. And so the, your professional
searcher will know what section crowns are associated with, and they'll search for everything
in that area. So even if the word crown was not in the description, which it is here, you'll see
like description of mark color is not claimed. Remember how I told all of you, when you file
your trademark applications, if you're using many different colors for your logos, I told you to
file in what black and white, right? By doing black and white, you end up covering all the colors.
I need to actually find, I actually said I was going to find that law for you. So let me see
if I could find it and post it in the Facebook group. So you have that. Ray, can you DM me on
that just so I don't forget right after I want to post that just to make sure I'm not making a,
they didn't change the law on that. So nobody runs into issues. Okay. So the main point of all this,
every single filing with the trademark office is going to have a description, use a word
that is going to be a description of what you're going to use for a logo. If it's a crown,
Type the word clown.
If it's a swoosh, type the word swoosh.
But just realize that the word that you're using
may not be the word that everybody else uses.
That's the problem.
That's where, that's why it helps to actually
have a professional to do the search
because you may be in a situation
where you actually don't realize
that the word that you're using to search
is not the word that somebody else used
and therefore it doesn't catch it.
It's similar to like patent searches.
You can do a patent search
on the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
And so you've got a brand new bicycle, right?
And so you want to file a patent application on a bicycle.
So you search for the word bicycle.
The problem is that the guy who actually filed
or the gal who filed the patent application on the bicycle
didn't use the word bicycle.
They use apparatus.
They use a word like riding apparatus.
Well, you're out of luck.
You look for the word bicycle.
It's the exact same thing that you created.
You're potentially committing patent infringement
but they didn't use the exact word that you listed.
So therefore the result is that you could potentially
infringe somebody else's intellectual property
even though you didn't intend to.
And you even did a search.
This is why we use professionals in these areas.
All right, so I'll give you the Thompson info.
There is no such thing as a Thompson affiliate link.
So I get nothing out of it except blessing you guys.
So it's not about that, all right?
So I want to make sure you guys don't get into trouble
but you can by all means do these kinds of searches yourself.
So find a description of what you're looking for
and then search for that.
Now, let me explain to you after you do a search
why is it that there's a blank here?
See this blank?
You notice there's a blank there.
There's a blank there.
Okay, so there's a reason why the blanks are there.
All right, and the reason why
is when you click on those trademarks,
you see there's no words, right?
So I click on this trademark, no word, right?
I click on this trademark, no word, right?
So this says, I'm assuming this is a bee
that's wearing a crown.
So let's just see if you look at the description of the mark.
Oh, there's a really good example here.
All right, so this is description that was,
can you guys see the bee on the screen?
Yeah, okay, let me make it a little bigger.
All right, this is a bee that was filed.
It's an intent to use application, see section 1B.
It was filed September 8th, 2021.
But when they filed the trademark application, look at this.
Look how down here, the colors, yellow, orange, brown,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
You see right here where it says,
the bee wears a gold, what?
Crown, see, there's a word crown.
And then on top of that, you'll see that the searcher,
when they did a search,
they use the class associated with crowns.
So that's why it came up.
But since there is no word in the trademark,
when you actually look at the results,
you just see a blank space.
That's all that means.
It just means that the trademark itself
does not include words.
The logo does not include words.
So all of these other ones,
let's pick one that's not offensive.
Let's go with ALM culture.
Let's see what that is.
All right, there you go.
So for ALM culture, make this one bigger.
There's the trademark.
You see the crown, there's the crown.
But look next to it, ALM culture, do you see that?
That's why in the search results,
you actually saw ALM culture right there.
It's not because the logo is ALM culture,
it's because the word ALM culture is in the logo, all right?
So you can actually do a search.
Let me shrink this down again.
You can actually do a search and then find,
what you'll find is that here's the logo,
but oh, there's other words there.
So what should that mean to you?
That should mean you should actually be looking and saying,
okay, well, am I using Aegean also, right?
Because while it's a logo filing, it uses certain words.
So there may be certain words that they own.
So if you're looking for, if you see Aegean cuisine
and there's a crown in there somewhere, right?
This, I guess they're calling this wreath thing as a crown.
So then you wanna ask yourself, when you look and you say,
oh, well, I don't have an issue with the wreath.
You might actually be using the word agent.
If you are, just make sure that, you know,
you don't potentially infringe, same thing.
But I'm gonna use this as an example
to tell you one more thing.
And then I think we're gonna close.
I'll answer like, I'll answer a few questions on logos.
See if anybody has any, okay.
So if this person filed for just a design mark, right?
Then it would not say underneath it, wordmark.
You see how it says wordmark?
So that means they actually use this logo
that they've filed with a filing
for the words, Aegean cuisine.
Okay, cause it's listing Aegean cuisine.
So there's a word component
and there may be a design component to your trademark.
That's something that's really important
for you to understand, right?
There can be a word component
and there could be a design component
to your single trademark.
If you want to stop others from using the words,
you wanna file a wordmark.
You wanna stop people from using the logo,
you wanna file a design mark.
They're two different things.
So I wanna see if I can find you a good example
of one that, okay, yeah, there's a good example.
There's a good example.
All right, can everybody see this cauldron ceramics?
Okay, the words cauldron ceramics
really have nothing to do with the design.
I mean, when you look at this logo,
you're like, who cares about the words?
It's really about the crown there
and all this other stuff that's there.
The words really have nothing to do with it.
So if cauldron ceramics files a design mark
on this image, all right?
Actually, I'm gonna correct something for you in a second.
So they file a design mark on this image
and then somebody goes and they use cauldron ceramics.
It's gonna be more difficult for them
to enforce their rights against others
because they own a design.
They don't own the word mark, right?
Now, arguably the words are part of the design, okay?
So I just wanna show you something
that the USPTO did recently.
You see here where it says word mark.
So a moment ago, I just told you that if it says word mark,
they don't, this is actually a filing just for the words.
They changed the way that they post it.
That's not the case.
Cause I just looked at a few different examples
and it's confirming what I kind of thought they did.
So on the USPTO website,
anytime that it's saying word mark,
that does not mean that they filed for a word mark.
And I can tell, I'm gonna prove it to you in a second.
I can tell it's because they're filling that field up
every single time.
Like it's anytime there's a word there, they're typing it in.
So what they're actually doing is,
let me shrink this down.
I'm gonna bring this all home in a second,
but let me explain to you what's going on.
They're under the word mark category here for the filing.
What they're doing is they're saying
if there's any word anywhere, they're typing it there.
That's all they're doing.
So while you and I would think, all right,
a word mark means a trademark filing for a word.
That's not what they're doing.
That is not what they're doing.
They're just, all they're doing,
I can tell on the USPTO website,
is they're saying, are there words?
Yep, okay, type them.
That's what they're doing.
Because if you go down to the description of the mark,
this is a design.
This is all design.
It's describing the mark itself.
If it was just a word, then it should just say the word.
And so let's go in and just confirm
if that's the case or not.
Because this is something that they've been doing,
which is kind of confusing for people.
So I'm gonna look at their actual trademark application.
So let's see.
Yep, see, this proves it.
This proves it.
Okay, so they filed a tease.
Let me make this bigger so everybody can see it.
This is their actual trademark application.
And this proves what I just told you.
The mark itself.
Here's the mark.
See, this is the trademark filing itself.
That's the trademark filing itself.
It's the actual logo itself.
That's their filing, okay?
And then when it says special form, it says yes.
Why is it a special form?
because it's the design all right and so and then when you go to description of the mark
it's giving you a description of the design it's telling you that color is not an element and
that's what i would suggest for all of you if you're using it in color just follow it without
colors because if you make colors claim somebody uses a different color they may argue that it's
not trademark infringement i'm not saying that they'll win i'm just saying that it's that's
what they'll argue um let's go down here look and see what else they have in the filing
you can see exactly who their attorney is the law firm the phone number to call their email address
you can see who the applicant is if the lawyer didn't list their info
you can find all sorts of information on that form so if you if you have a certain trademark
and you see that there's somebody else has something similar and you want to reach out to
them which i wouldn't suggest doing without an attorney but if you did do that you can all their
contact information is there so what i was basically just showing you is that if you do a
trademark search yeah it's good all right so if you do a trademark search let me stop sharing and
then share my screen again and take you back to the beginning just to make sure everybody
understands what i'm doing here okay if you do a basics trademark search search trademarks
search second link type in whatever the the thing is that you're looking for so let's say like
lightning light lightning is it lightning lightning or yeah lightning right that's it
yep okay and then i go i go down to description of mark or i could go to design description either
one um i'm going to go to design description because that's the logo itself and submit
then i click on it there's lightning how in the world did you get a trademark for that
is this a registration
they own lightning a lightning bolt that means they relied upon another trademark to get it
wow does these guys get a registration
it's registered wow so they own a lightning on clothing are you kidding me
yeah i have to dig into this one figure out how they actually did that but for some reason these
guys have a lightning on clothing wow loading bolt that's amazing um so anyways you just type
in the word and that describes what's actually within your logo you just type it into the field
and you select for the field design description that's it okay now just realize again it's not
bulletproof this isn't bulletproof why is it not bulletproof somebody might not use the word
lightning like what if instead of saying lightning they typed in bolt right which is possible
or they typed in like electricity right so you're really trying to trying to find the right word but
if you're doing things on your own and you can knock out some of the results that's great because
then you're decreasing what you actually have to bring to your attorney right but if i search for
electricity i bet you the lightning bolts there see there it is you know did you see that i just
searched for the word electricity instead of lightning bolt and it came up anyway somebody
unmute themselves and tell me why why was i able to type in electricity and get the same result as
if i typed in lightning bolt the design search code has electricity and lightning and sparks
it's the design search code that's right mary the design search code for 1.15.2
covers electricity and lightning so for that reason when you type lightning it came up when
you type electricity it came up but you know so this is this is a great way for you to actually do
some searches yourself and see what's out there hopefully you don't get 16 000 results when you
search for your word um so you can decrease but but the whole point being is you're decreasing
the number of things that you have to bring to your attorney which is going to make your life a
lot easier but then when you bring stuff to your attorney you've already done some of the top level
review so you're just digging into what's important okay all right questions about logo
searching logo searching is very different any questions about logo searching
do you
See how you can mess up in a trademark search for a logo?
Like you might use the wrong word.
You might do, Mary will be the first person to ask questions
and for each person, I'll give you like two minutes
because it's Saturday.
Everybody should be able to go and do other things, right?
So Larissa, you're trying to speak, what's up?
There are a couple of quick ones in the chat.
I didn't know which one-
I'll get to them after I get to Mary, okay?
Okay.
So the point being that you want to decrease
the number of things you have to bring to your attorney.
You want to be prepared
and you want to have everything together
so that you present it to your attorney, right?
So if you've already knocked out, again,
you've knocked out seven of the results,
you bring them three.
Now they're just digging into the three
or you can actually hire the professional searching company
for just the three
because Thomson Reuters will charge you 700 bucks.
I think it's around 700 bucks to do a professional search.
It's not cheap, but it's really good.
They do a really good job.
Like they will get you-
Somebody here lives right down the street
from Thomson Reuters.
Who is it?
I don't know who it is.
Is it you, Mary?
Mary lives right down the street from Thomson Reuters.
And it's like, she tells me it's even hard
to get in the building.
I have high security and everything, you know,
because that place, like they know what they're doing.
They're like one of the best in the world
at doing trademark searches,
but they charge you like 700 bucks.
So the result is you're gonna get the state registrations,
the federal registrations,
any countries that you specifically designate.
They will give you corporate name formations.
They'll give you domain names.
They'll give you websites.
Like you're gonna get a book that's like that thick, okay?
And you can see exactly who is using that name.
All right, Mary, you're on.
Two minutes, my friend.
What is your question?
My top level question is,
you've got the reaching person, which is what I call him.
Yeah.
And then you've got the reaching person
as the I in innovative therapy.
Right.
Are those two separate designs?
Do I need to trademark them as two separate designs?
I do use them separately.
Oh, well, that answered your question.
What you just said, the second part answered your question.
So if you use them separately, the answer is yes.
Then you wanna go after each one separately.
The reason why is if somebody,
if I had the Bodhi and I use that separately
and then somebody else used it,
I'd be upset about that because I created the Bodhi.
Like that's mine.
I don't want people using that.
Look, it looks like kind of like an I, right?
And so they can use it as an I in any other word.
And I'd be like, hold it, that's my Bodhi.
You don't get to like use that.
That's mine.
And then separate from that,
I'm actually using it alone as well.
So I would actually file a trademark for the Bodhi alone.
And then I would file a trademark for the Bodhi
in the innovation therapy.
I would do both.
That's what I would do personally.
Yeah.
Second level question really fast.
I have Bodhi, the artist has drawn him for me
in at least a hundred different body positions
because he becomes your instructor
using the worksheets to go through my system.
That makes sense.
So he's in lots of body positions besides reaching,
although reaching is the iconic,
you know, and you'd said,
be sure you're trademarking your iconic.
And so that's what I've had the artists do this week.
But do I need to, I mean,
trademarking him in every single body position.
That's not possible.
Is financially, there's no way I can do it.
Absolutely.
No, Mary raises a really good question.
Hopefully everybody's listening to her.
So what if the logo that you're using,
you use in a lot of different positions,
like a lot, like she does, right?
It becomes basically an important character
in all these different like scenarios and, you know,
pointing here and doing that and like whatever else,
right there do all these other things.
So what I would do, I'll tell you what I would do,
but in general,
I would find the ones that are most prevalent, you know,
cause it's, it's cost prohibitive.
Like you can't, you can't basically say, all right,
well, I have it in a hundred different positions.
I'm going to follow a hundred trademarks.
That just would be crazy.
Yeah.
Like that's just crazy expensive.
So what I would do is I would find like the ones
that are most prevalent, like, you know,
on most of the documents,
this position is happening, right.
And another, and most of the other positions,
you know, documents, it's like something else, right?
Whatever it is.
And so for that reason,
I would find like maybe like the five most popular
and then figure out my budget and file only for what I can,
because remember the test,
the test is likelihood of confusion, right?
So if in my federal registration it's doing this,
but somebody else has it doing this,
I'm gonna say that's a likelihood of confusion.
That's the same character.
It's very similar.
You just move the arm a little bit.
So I'm gonna say that in the public's image,
they're gonna see the bode that you have there.
That's my bode.
They're gonna say, no, no, no, no, no.
There's a likelihood of confusion here.
That's an issue.
So I would find the ones that are most prevalent.
I would get the protection on that
because it's cost prohibitive to go after every single one.
Although there are companies
that do go after every single one.
I would get the main ones.
And if somebody starts using something
that's kind of like ballpark similar,
I'd still send them the letter
after you speak to an attorney and say,
hey, this is potential trademark infringement.
I believe there's a likelihood of confusion
in the public's eye as to the source of goods
because you are using my trademark.
You just move the arm a little bit.
It's like same colors, same shape,
same gender neutral, you know, John Travolta pose.
I'm just kidding.
So it's still the same thing, you know?
So for that reason, that's why I would,
I would take the most prevalent
and then I would use those as ammunition
to make people stay away from all the other stuff.
All right, I go to the next one.
Helene, you're up my friend.
How are you?
Hi, real quick.
When you do the search
and you see all of the blank fields
and you click on them one by one,
is there a way to get a list of thumbnails
without having to click one by one?
That's an awesome question.
I've never seen that.
Thomson Reuters has a service called Sirion
S-E-R-I-O-N, I think it's called,
where you can do like a lower level search
using the Thomson database.
You can do the search yourself.
I think it costs like,
probably end up costing like 300 bucks or so.
The problem though is that
you might not use the right search terms,
but when you do that, you do get a list.
Like you're talking about with thumbnails and stuff,
which is kind of helpful.
Like, but every one of the trademarks
that you wanna get more data on,
you actually have to pay a fee for every one.
So it can be cost prohibitive,
but the USPTO website, I wish they would do that.
That would be amazing.
That would be truly amazing,
but I've never seen that feature available.
Let me just look and see if I click this here.
Yeah, they don't have anything like that.
I wish they did.
Oh, hold it.
Wait, what is this button?
Image list.
Ooh, ooh, hold on.
Oh, okay, hold on.
I'm sharing this.
All right, this is probably gonna be the best bonus
of all time because I'm seeing something
I never knew existed.
Cause I always get like the professional searches.
So then I know there's no liability issue.
Everybody's happy.
Look up here.
Look on the top here.
You see image list?
Yeah.
Click that.
You get images.
That's good.
Yeah, that saves a lot of time.
That saves a tremendous amount of time right there.
All right, so yeah, click the image button on the top
where it says, let me go back, let me go back.
All right, so right here on the top,
it says image list.
Click on that.
I mean, again, realize that, you know,
this kind of search is not going to be a professional search
so there'll be things that you miss, but this is fantastic.
I mean, we should call this the Helene search.
This is great.
I love it.
This is awesome.
Copyright or trademark then?
Yeah, I know, right?
That would be trademark, yeah.
So, but there you go.
You can just kind of glance through
and see everyone that's there.
I love it.
That's awesome.
That is awesome.
Yeah, what a great tool for people to be able to go in
and just look at them one by one.
And then underneath it, you see,
so let's say you go over to step in over here
and you're like, oh, I wonder what that's about.
You just click on that and there's the trademark.
That's good.
And then you just click back and you go back to your screen
and just scroll down again.
Helene, you're awesome.
Well, you found it, you're more awesome.
Well, I mean, and this is just,
what we just exemplified, guys,
is this is the body of Christ
and this is really what happens in the portal.
Just to understand,
I understand that I am the quote-unquote leader in the-
the portal, but this is what happens.
Helene actually joined the portal.
So that's awesome.
I'm glad to have you there.
Clearly for this reason and more,
you're gonna be contributing as much.
But the point being is that it's a community.
It's not just Peter talks, everybody writes down notes.
That is not what the portal is about.
I mean, do I have a wealth of knowledge?
Yeah, I mean, I pretty much have run into most things
that most people would ever run into.
Everything from appeals to litigation,
to prosecution, to you name it, right?
But the fact is what just happened to you live
is literally what happens in the portal.
Where we dig into things like this and we're like,
what happens when you click that button?
What does this do?
What does that do?
And then boom, we just found a new feature that's available
and then everybody starts using that.
We have one person who just joined, I think it's Jill.
She's actually creating a flow chart
of what you should do from beginning stages
of a corporation, like for the formation of the corporation
to like trademark search to like everything.
And she's doing that within the portal.
Like, and then we're all gonna review it all
and kind of fine tune it and make it a tool
that we use in there.
So it's like, that's what it's about.
It's community, it's making things strong,
it's helping each other out.