All right, let's see, share screen.
Okay, I just want to show you guys a few features here
under trademark searching.
So what I did was I went into the second block. So there's three different types of searches,
there's the basic word search, which is this one. So your options here are combined word mark,
which really can be any single word or multiple words. The problem is,
unfortunately, when you search multiple words, it can be complicated because if I look up
Microsoft, let's see, what's, oh, Burger King, that's a good one, Burger King. Burger King.
All right, so anything that has Burger King will pop up, but then what you also get,
see if I have some examples here, next list. Okay, so if you get more records than you can
see on one screen, just click the button next list down there. That'll get you to more. But
the only search results you're going to get when you type that are the words that anything that
has the word Burger King in it, or apparently somebody was smart enough to go after BK
and add that into the United States Patent and Trademark Office's database. So they see that
as an equivalent to Burger King. That was kind of clever, kind of smart. I wonder if it's actually
owned by Burger King. Let's see. Yeah, Burger King brands. So owned by them. All the BKs are
Burger King brands. Yeah. So the thing is, when you become big enough, you can actually own
acronyms. So remember how we talked about getting trademarks for acronyms? And we said what they'll
do is they'll actually search for what the acronym stands for. There's a good example of that.
So BK stands for Burger King. So when you did a search for Burger King, you got everything
that had BK. So anytime that somebody files for an acronym with the United States Patent and
Trademark Office, you'll find that the examiner is going to ask you what does that stand for? And
when they ask you what it stands for, they're going to actually make an equivalent to that
within their database. So what should technically happen, and I use the word should because sometimes
it doesn't work this way, but what should technically happen is the acronym, the equivalent
of the acronym, whatever the words are that's associated with that acronym should pop up in
your search. Should. What I'm going to tell you is don't rely upon that though, just in case.
All right. So if you have BK, then make sure you're searching for Burger King also.
Like search for both. Search for the acronym plus search for the words themselves. It's important.
Otherwise what can happen is you think that you're safe and you're really not. The other part is
you can search live trademarks here or dead trademarks. Now let me just kind of talk a little
bit about dead trademarks. What most people think is that if a trademark is dead, you don't have to
worry about it. That's not true. That is not true. Okay. So if I do a search for, like we just did,
Burger King, and then I scroll down as I go lower, next list. Why is only 24 coming up now?
Let me see. Oh, I clicked live. That's why. All right. Live and dead. There we go. Submit.
All right. There we go. There's your hundred. It's kind of funny that Burger King has exactly
100 trademarks. Anybody else find that interesting? Exactly 100. That's kind of interesting.
All right. So you see all these trademarks here? They say dead. See that? Seems rare.
All those are dead. Dead. These were like burger ideas that never made it very far.
So you might think to yourself, well, I can go use BK Joe because BK Joe is dead.
But here's the problem. Okay. The problem is that even though somebody may have allowed the
trademark to go abandoned by not renewing it or not responding to a office action or whatever
the case may be, that does not mean that they necessarily do not have any rights.
see their trademarks. Somebody unmute and tell me why. See if
anybody can figure this one out. Why is it that on the USPTO site
it might say dead, but the party may still have trademark rights?
Is that common law? Yeah, I think they've been using it.
Yes. Carrie, is it? Can you just work with me? Like, can we just
work together? I'm wondering, you know, sure, sure. You know,
all this job. Sure. This is good. Right after I get back
from Europe in about two weeks. There you go. Just before
conference is very good. Very good. Carrie. So I had I was
counting down until you asked her that. I know, right? Like,
she's, she's so on it. I mean, she and Catherine are like on
every single point. She's like, though this scenario that
so good. Alright, so, um, that's correct. So you may have a
situation where you do a search and you think it's clear, but
then when you go, and you start, you know, like you go after
federal registration, you find out the other party owns like
eight states. You didn't you thought it was safe. So how how
exactly do you handle these situations? Let me show you
something that's kind of cool. Let me do I'm going to use a
different name, though, from Berg. Berg King's not really a
good example for this.
Um, before you get off, I guess you are off the page. Now. It
showed a classes. There you go. What was that? It is. So it
shows a column for classes. Yes. But not all of them have
classes. That's correct. So what are classes? international
classes? Okay, those are the international classes on day two.
What they are is any goods or services that you have are going
to fall into a international class. And so as an example,
here, I apologize, he went over that. Yes. Oh, no, no, it's
fine. I just want to tell you what day it's on. So you can
find if you want to watch the replay, it helps you out to
that would be day twos replay is where there'll be a breakdown of
it. But you see right here where it says providing online
training courses, right? Yes. Alright, so that's class 41 is
typically online training classes are online training.
Yeah, courses are in class 41 predominantly, right. So for that
reason, what you should see and what what I don't understand,
actually, is when you actually look at the list.
So my real question was that some of them don't have any
classes. Yeah, that that's what I'm talking about. And I thought
all of them needed to have classes.
Well, they all do have classes. The question is, why aren't they
listed? That's, that I believe is just a USPTO issue. See,
because here's a registration in class 30. You see that? King
cake, burger, gosh, that's a hard one. Oh, okay, it was
another company. Alright, King cake burger, right? So when you
look at King cake burger, there it is class 30. We just saw that
right. But then when you look at the next one, BK, that's in
classes 35 and 41. But when you look back over here, it's not
listed. So I just think that's what is that because it's more
than one class? No, because there's multiple classes on some
here too. Oh, sorry, the chat's blocking me. Here's like three
of them there. You know, I think it's just the USPTO records or
not. This is why I tell you guys like what I'm training you on
and searching is great to get rid of potential trademarks. It's
horrible to determine whether or not you potentially infringe. I
would never rely upon the United States Patent and Trademark
Office exclusively determine if you infringe, I would decrease
the number of trademarks and then get an attorney or get a
third party to do a formal search. Like today, john
umstead called me up with one of his clients, he coaches. So he
had one of his clients with him. His clients now actually
become one of my clients. And he had he did a Thompson Reuters
search, a Syrian search, which is like the best kind of search
you can get. And he said, Hey, we already paid. Like we already
paid the 800 and change to that company, we got the results
already. We just want you to result to review them. And so I
said, fine, no problem. So he just forwarded to me and over an
hour, we started looking at these different logos to see if
they're potential trademarks.
infringement and then word marks to see if there's potential trademark infringement.
We did that together live, and it worked out really well for his client.
When we did that, we found certain things that may be a concern.
And so now he has to kind of go a little bit back to the drawing board.
But, you know, when he did the search himself, he thought, I'm clear.
But that Syrian search is so good. It's like,
I mean, honestly, I wouldn't spend 800 bucks on a search, but they are really good.
And so they find stuff that you just not going to find anywhere else. And so
for that reason, it's good. But you asked an excellent question, as usual, Catherine. And
I honestly have no idea why they didn't populate these, because clearly there's a class,
like every single filing must have a class.
It's right there, class 43. So class 43 should be on your way. Nothing there.
So that's their own issue with their own database, not populating things properly.
So can I ask a general question back to the common law thing?
Yeah, go ahead.
Is there a period of time that you have to,
well, is there a period of time that if it has not been used for a period of time,
put it that way, that then you can use it? Like, does common law just exist forever?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Right? I mean, at some point, it's got to be able to fall off.
Yeah. So in the United States, if you have a federal registration, then it's
it's three years of consecutive use, you have to maintain three years of consecutive use.
If you don't, you can lose your trademark under common law.
See, common law is, it's not like United States patent trademark law,
where you kind of you have a very clear rule on it. Under common law, I would think if somebody
stopped using it for two years, I would think they'd lose their rights. I mean, that's not the
law, though. I just say, you know, it's I think it also depends on how famous the trademark is.
And if there's any inventory out in the industry, because if there's still stuff on eBay,
even though the company is not manufacturing it, that's still in the public side. That's
still interstate commerce. So that's still a sale. Okay. Yeah. So I would say it's going to
be situation specific. But if you're like three years, four years, five years, not using a
trademark, I think you're dead. At that point, it gets really difficult. So with this year,
so let's say we got a scenario where there's a trademark that's listed as dead.
And we think to ourselves, okay, we're clear. Now, let me try to think of a trademark where
they definitely would have listed the website of the company. How about let me see.
Let me see if MIT.
MIT dead.
Next list.
Dead.
Live.
See if this one works.
Go down to the original filing documents.
Application. I just want to show you something that's pretty cool.
Here's a company. See if they list the website. Read Law. What's the
company?
It's in services. Didn't MIT create the internet for someone there? I have no idea.
The internet got created by a guy, well, I guess browsers. There was a gentleman who actually
created it as a page. And then somebody else who created calculators, digital calculators,
saw how applicable the browser could be and what they could use it purpose-wise. And that's how it
evolved.
Wow. I thought it was some senator or governor who thought he claimed that he created the internet.
Not the former vice president who was affiliated with. That's right. That's who it was.
I created the internet. Yeah, whatever, man.
You created a farce.
You'd be a billionaire if you created the internet. I'm trying to think of a name that
where somebody who files the application will definitely list a website,
but even if we can't find one, that's okay.
How about we just look up Google? Let's see if Google.
Come on, Apple.
Google's got like four billion trademarks.
Let's go down to the bottom.
Oh, they're dead.
Google's dead.
Google.com? Did you see that?
Yeah, but I'm looking for one of their earlier trademarks.
Google Chrome. Cool.
Let's see. All right, we're getting close.
There we go. Google Play. That should work.
Yep, that's a good one. Okay.
So if I look at their original application filing documents,
let's just assume that it's a dead trademark.
If we look at the original application,
what we're looking for is a listing of a website.
And it doesn't look like they did either.
No, they didn't.
They didn't. Okay.
Anyways, if you're trying to figure out whether or not a trademark
that's listed as dead,
if the company is actually still using that trademark,
there's a way to do it.
There's a way to, there's a tool that helps.
And it's the Wayback Machine.
But what you want to do is you want to figure out,
one of the things I do in practice is I'll figure out
what is the website for that company?
And then I'll go to the Wayback Machine and I'll look at their browsers
from each year and each month.
And I'll find out when they stopped using it on their website.
So if they stopped using like five years ago,
like Kerry and I were talking about,
then if it's been five years and it's not on their website,
you don't see it anywhere.
But before then it was all over their website.
That helps me to kind of get an idea of, okay, well,
maybe they stopped some time.
Then I'll look at things. I'll look on Google.
I'll look on eBay, Amazon.
I'll look on Alibaba.
If I don't see anything in any of those places,
I think I'm pretty clear.
That's what I do.
But in general,
just because a trademark after a search is stated to be dead,
does not in any way, shape or form mean that it's actually clear.
Okay.
So don't rely upon that word dead to think to yourself, I'm safe.
It's not a good idea.
Let's see if I do swoosh.
Okay.
I'm going to give you a, did everybody here fill out the assessment form yet?
Yep.
Yes.
Because I want to kind of show you guys something.
Beforehand.
But before I do that, let me.
There we go. Now I can see you guys.
Okay. So.
What I would say is I wanted to give you guys an example of something on,
on a logo search, because it is kind of tricky.
You're going to get when you, when you fill out the assessment form,
you're going to get a video that breaks it down for you in more detail.
But I want to kind of live since you guys are in VIP.
I want to kind of live,
just kind of give you a preview of what you're going to see in the video.
All right.
Because it is, it is a little tricky.
And this way, if you guys have a question while I'm doing it,
it'll help you out.
So, so if you haven't filled out that form,
I am like going forward and sharing this stuff with you.
So make sure you fill out the form. Okay.
Cause our general rule is we give it out afterwards so we can see what
kind of feedback we get. All right. So.
This is kind of cool.
Every trademark.
Let's look for a swoosh.
There you go. Lots of swishes, many swishes, the diamonds.
There's a swoosh. See, that's a swoosh. Okay.
I'm just going to pull up a trademark here. You guys,
can you guys see this? The diamonds? All right.
If you look at.
The description.
Let me shrink this down. So I don't, I can't see you guys.
All right, here we go.
If you look at the description of the mark itself, you'll see the mark.
Consists of a remember whenever you file a trademark for a logo.
You have to describe.
The logo. So it says right here, description of the mark.
That's it right there.
It says the mark consists of a concentric diamond shape.
And at the center of it is a pair of gradient building.
Should be buildings, plural.
Oh, well.
With a triangular shape, a top.
And a shaded. Do you see the word there?
beneath it. The words, the diamonds, are written in large and stylized lettering underneath the
concentric diamond shape. Okay, so here's the thing is that when you do a cert, what you can do
to find logos is you can think of how would you describe the logo. That's what I would do is
think to yourself, how exactly would I describe this logo? And as I'm thinking of how I describe
this logo, I type in the word for the description. So swoosh, obviously, is something that people
become associated with this or this, you know, it's kind of like a line that's just kind of
cursive or there's a curve to it. It's considered swoosh, right? So when you use that word,
what you can do in the field section is you can go down to description of mark. You see that there,
that field, click description of mark. And now when you submit this query, you get any trademarks
that have the swoosh in it, pops up, right? So what you're essentially doing is you're,
but here's the bad part. The bad part is that you need to ask, you need to use the right words.
That's the thing that's really difficult about this is you don't use the right words.
It can be really tricky because you can miss something if you don't use the right words.
Now, you see how I'm going to show you something that you probably have never seen before.
You see how there's all these results right over here. There's a button says image list.
Do you see that? Click that. Look at that. Oh, very cool. Now what you're seeing is you're
seeing the logos and the results. So instead of, instead of looking at this here, where you are
like, well, what's a W like, I don't know what W they click it. Okay. Got it. Now you got to go
back and I got to go to the next one and click it. I got to go back. Instead. You can click right
here. Image list. And there it is. Now you can just scroll down and go. That doesn't look like
mine. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Oh, that one. This one seems like a problem. Then
you have the number that you click on the number and you can see the trademark. Isn't that cool?
That's cool. That's a faster way to go through trademarks way faster. All right. So, excuse me,
Peter, one more time. Where did you find image list on the sheet on the page? Hold on a second.
Share. Right. You have to be on the page with the results. There's a page. See the page with
the results right there. Yes. You see it right there. Oh, now I see it. Okay. Up at the top.
Got it. It's kind of hard. Thank you. Between between next, next list and bottom. Okay. Yes.
Thank you. Click on that. And now you've got all these images that are right there.
Which is I'm telling you, this will save you so much time. Otherwise, what you're doing is
it's so frustrating because you're going through everyone because there's no way to know what kind
of image is there as you're looking at the word marks. So, you're going through everyone one by
one and every one of them, you'll see in the description of the mark, there's the word swoosh.
So, you're trying to determine whether or not there's potential trademark infringement and
you're looking at them one by one. But this, this, that just doesn't work. I would click the
image list. Just scroll down and go through. Sorry. Is there a way, let's say you want it
to use a swoosh, but you want it to use it in the restaurant industry or the consulting industry or
can you search for the swoosh in a category? Yes. You tell me how to do that. Well, you go back up
to the top and put swoosh in the term and the field description of mark. And then search term
would, or maybe in the other field, you would put, put the field or put in, or let's say,
Is there consulting? Or what did you say? Some kind of training? Online online training? Yeah,
sure. 41. Right? Yeah, come on. That's what you said. Let's say you wanted to do this.
Just so good, guys. This is like, this is the best way to me for me to have a Friday when like,
literally the students are like, teaching the class. It's so good. I love this. This is why
I love what I do. So let's say you were like online training. Right? Right. So you come over
here and you you do what? What would you select? I'm down. Where is the rich? Oh, international
class. Okay, let's see if you did that. You clicked international class. You wouldn't do that.
The reason why is because if you did in a cloud international class, you have to put the number.
Oh, okay. I thought you do that. Okay, if you do like online training,
then what you could do is come over here and select the non punctuated or something
right here. Goods and services. Okay, services, right? What else do I need to do?
Do the operators and and? Come on. Do you want a paralegal position?
See, submit query. There you go. So now what you do is you go to image list again.
So when I go to let's say that one. What is that? Let's back up. Maybe that one.
Maybe that one. That's better. What was that? I clicked the image.
Oh, so if you click the image, it just goes crazy. Apparently. That's nice. Good to know.
Does that happen everywhere? It does. Oh, wow. That's interesting. You have to make sure you
click the number. Alright, so there you go. See consulting services, right? Class 41. Very good.
You nailed it. Class 41. And in the description, what do they have? So the other way that you could
do it would be to change this to 041 and change this to international class. And then do a search.
Now you only get 478 records, right? It's a lot lower. Then you can go to your image list and see
what's out there. And if you didn't have a logo yet, this might give you some ideas of what's out
there. Yeah, it'll definitely give you ideas of what's out there. Yeah. It'll lay it all out for
you one by one, every single one of them. I mean, it's not, again, it's the USPTO website is not the
most comprehensive thing in the world. That's why I say use Syrian. Use those guys. Clairvate is
actually what they're called. But then when you click on one of those, you're going to see the
same thing. And you go down to description of the mark, there's the word swoosh. See, now you've got
there's your class 41, which you typed in. And there's your educational services.
Hey, Peter, that one I noticed it also down there at the bottom said color is not claimed
as a feature of the mark, right? That's what I've actually told you guys. See, here's the thing.
As you've been going through this training, you're probably I don't think you're you're
capable of understanding all the stuff that you've learned yet. The stuff that I've actually
taught you taught all of you are like secrets to the industry and things that a lot of lawyers
don't even know. Like like I just figured if you're going to be doing this, do it right.
Like understand all the tools, excel and just do really well. But there's little nuances of
things that I've taught you. Like when you file an application, don't claim color. Then you covers
all colors. You know, when you do a trademark search, use the image button to fly right through
a lot faster. When you're searching for multiple words, how to use the multiple words, you know,
using the and not the or like all these little things here. If if you guys understood the stuff
that you're learning. It would blow your mind. So this stuff should make your lives a lot easier.
But again, you're going to you're going to keep using this stuff and there's going to be other
things that you're going to need. And that's why the portals there, because there's a lot of stuff
you're going to need. You've learned a fraction of what's important. So let me share one other thing here.
Share screen, there we go.
Okay, so let me do this.
Let's say that you find somebody,
all right, this is not legal advice.
I'm just saying in general, if you find a,
like if somebody finds a trademark and they think,
say they're looking through all the records
and they're going blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, who cares, who cares?
Whoa, whoa, that looks very similar to the logo
that we've been using the last three years, right?
And so you look at it, you click on it
and you're like, what?
Like, look at the list of services, right?
Look at this list.
And then look at this list, like, oh my gosh.
And then when we haven't even gotten to 41 yet,
there's 35, look at 35.
What, what is that?
Look at this.
And then go down to 41, wait till you see 41.
Look at 41, all of this is covered.
So when you run into a situation like this
and you go, oh my gosh, like that's a lot.
Oh, I needed this right here, hold on a second.
That was incredibly convenient.
Software as a service,
featuring software for databases.
Oh, this is perfect, I needed that language right there.
Hold on, actually, you know what?
I'm gonna grab all this right here to here.
I click copy.
Give me one quick second, guys.
I'm just gonna copy and paste this language
into my Microsoft Word.
I was actually looking for a really good description
of a SaaS platform for a trademark application.
So as the Lord would bless me, thank you, Lord.
I just found one and trying to demonstrate for,
see, this is how life is.
When you serve others, things just come to you.
It just happens.
I was trying to come up with the best description
for a SaaS platform and it just so happens
that boom, there it is.
All right, so let me share my screen again.
Okay, so when you run into a situation like this
and you go, are you kidding me?
Like, oh my gosh, and so you think to yourself,
I don't know, can I continue using this name
or do I need to change it?
And so you think to yourself, all right,
well, I remember Peter showed me how to find out
who owns it.
Like, there's their registrant.
Look who it is, Alibaba.
Huge, huge corporation.
Absolutely huge, monstrous corporation.
They're the ones that own it.
And so I think to myself, well, let me reach out to them.
Let me reach out to them.
So I'm gonna figure out where's the information.
So I click this TSDR thing here
and then I scroll down to see who's the contact.
When I click on attorney correspondence information,
there's the information right there.
No way, Nixon Peabody represents?
I didn't know that.
Alibaba, that's good to know.
Huh, okay.
I know Jeff, very cool.
All right, so you think to yourself,
well, maybe I'll just call this guy
and I'll just ask him.
I'm just gonna ask him, you know, is it okay?
Like, I'm using this thing, are you all right with that?
Like, you know, I just wanna find out.
Please involve a lawyer before you do that
because if you've been doing that
and it's actually trademark infringement,
when you call them, you've now told them,
hey, I am infringing your trademark.
I mean, they could literally just turn around
and say, thank you very much.
Please send me a check for $100,000 or for $25,000.
And you go, well, no, I was trying to do the right thing.
I was trying to reach out to you.
And they go, yes, you did the right thing.
You reached out to us.
We applaud your efforts.
We just love that you're so honest and trustworthy.
We'd like to welcome you to dinner
as you are giving us a check for $100,000
for infringing for the last three years.
Like that will happen to you guys.
So don't just go calling people.
I've seen people do that.
They just, they learn, you know, who the contact is.
And then they say, well, I can figure this out.
And they just call, like call a lawyer,
let the lawyer do the assessment and say, okay, hold it.
That's Alibaba.
That's one of the biggest companies out there.
They're worth a ton of money.
And you're calling up Nixon Peabody,
which is an extremely litigious law firm,
to actually get them to agree to let you use
something that belongs to their client,
where they're thinking,
I'm gonna make money off of this litigation.
Bad combination.
So what you should be doing is thinking,
okay, I found a trademark here.
Let me do a little research.
As you do research, I would involve an attorney personally
and ask the attorney what they suggest you should do, okay?
And one of the things that the attorney should be asking is,
all right, what are the potential damages?
You know, how long have you been using it?
What do you have to lose?
Like, what is the potential for loss here?
Is the potential for loss here $5,000?
Yeah, let's make the call, who cares?
If $5,000 in damages, who cares?
Or if you've been using it for a number of years
and you find out about the infringement,
you may just say, yeah, no way, I'm not calling.
Does that make sense?
Just because you have information
doesn't mean you should always use it.
Let's just put it that way.
Having knowledge is one thing,
using it properly is another.
Yes, Catherine, good.
So my question is, they got that in 2016.
Let's say my mom and pop store has been using it since 2010.
Yes, so you tell me what happens.
So then if I understand correctly,
then that gives me some rights
even though I have not filed the paperwork,
that still gives me some rights
to be able to possibly continue using what I have
and not have to change.
I'd still need to contact an IP attorney.
And there could be the possibility that,
oh, by the way, Alibaba,
you're taking me out to dinner tonight
and every other night for the rest of my life.
It's true, it's true.
I mean, there's a definite possibility of that, right?
And so you need to do that assessment
and find out, well, hold it.
I've had this name for multiple years prior to them.
Just keep in mind that under common law,
you get, what they do is they give you
the specific geographical region, right?
That's what the law says, a geographical region.
A geographical region is not a whole state.
It's not even a whole city.
It's like a small region within the town.
You don't own all of it.
And so you could continue, like under common law,
a company could continue using or making,
using, selling, doing whatever they're doing
with the trademark on products or services
in those same geographical regions, but they can't expand.
They can't go past those regions, right?
If you're selling products on the internet,
that's where it gets really tricky.
So like I have a client who's been selling
on the internet for a while
and another party went and filed a trademark.
And I said, I don't care.
Like I reached out to the other party and I said,
hey, we've been providing these services for seven years,
eight years, eight years.
And his clients are around the world
in every single state, like in many culture,
in many countries.
So you've got a choice here.
You can stop using the federally registered trademark
that you got, or we could sue you.
It's your call.
And they backed off.
Like they just, they backed off because they saw.
Now, like when I made that,
when I had that communication, I had to be very,
I had to make sure that I did my homework
to make sure that I was right, right?
Like you don't go out there making a threat
and then find out, oh my gosh, no, they predate me.
I just walked myself into a lawsuit
because I admitted that I'd been using it, right?
So you don't do that.
But at the same time, once I was comfortable
and confident that my client had those rights,
reached out to the other side and said,
you guys have to stop.
Now they had, you know, they had a federal registration.
Todd Engwald just pinged me.
How's your, how did your challenge go?
He thinks it's over.
It's not over, buddy.
So I love Todd and Tamara.
They're awesome people.
So, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
You just have to be careful, because you can end up shooting a missile at somebody and then having them hit you with a nuclear bomb.
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
And I've seen that a lot. People get very excited about a potential infringement issue or a cease and desist letter.
They send it out, and then they end up in a litigation matter that, if they had done the homework properly, they never would have gotten in the first place.
So just be careful. That's why it's important to use a good IP attorney, because if they do their homework properly, it should minimize the potential exposure for you.
You want to minimize potential exposure. So let me take one more question, and I think we're going to close.
I had just a quick question, but I hate for it to be the last one.
Yeah, let's just check and see. Kay, or Mandy, or Carrie, or the other Carrie, or Clyde. And if not, then I'll go to the other Carrie.
Doesn't look like it. Okay, go ahead. Carrie, go ahead.
I just thought about it in that scenario you raised with you've been using it and someone else has it. Can you sell a trademark?
Oh, yeah.
So at that point, if you don't have a federal registration, but they do, but now you have the right to it, could part of the negotiation be that they buy the rights from them and you actually secure your position?
Oh, yes, definitely.
Yeah, that part, definitely. The other sequence is more difficult. So let's say that you've been using it under common law.
Somebody has a federal registration and you threaten them, and then they say, okay, yeah, I got to back off.
And you say, well, hold it. I'd like to buy it off of you. Can you assign our right title and interest over to me?
Now, the tricky part, though, is that you have to make sure that obviously you fall under the recitation of goods and services that they have listed.
You have to be doing exactly what's in their recitation of goods and services. Otherwise, you'll have to abandon at least part of your trademark.
So let's say it lists bicycles, tricycles and unicycles. And so you get that, but you only make bicycles.
So you purchase the trademark off of them, but you only make bicycles. That means you're going to have to abandon unicycles and tricycles because all you make is bicycles.
You can only maintain a trademark for the goods or services that are listed that you actually use in interstate commerce.
So when Alibaba did that trademark with all those things listed, did they pay for one or did they pay for each of those?
Like, how does. Well, you guys tell me. Let's take a look at it.
It's a good question. So let's take a look at it. Here's their trademark, right?
You guys tell me, I'll go through it slowly. I'll go very slowly.
You tell me.
That's off of one trade. I'm sorry. That was off of.
Don't ask the question yet. I want to make sure this question first.
I think I have an answer if I'm allowed to go.
All right, go for it. Good.
Didn't you say that you do have to pay, but only for each individual class and not each of those like little ones, but just each class.
Yes.
Gosh, was that Mandy?
Yep.
Hi, Mandy.
Hi. Sorry, I'm not on camera right now.
That's awesome. That is awesome. Well done. That's right.
So in this trade, in this class 42, look at all this they listed. They only paid one fee.
OK.
They paid one fee for that entire monstrous listing.
Now, going along the lines of what Carrie mentioned, they need to actually be using the trademark on every single thing listed here.
Like every one. They go back to class nine. Do they have class nine? I think they had a class nine.
Yeah. So they've got to be using it on like everything.
Anything that's missing. Anything that's in here that's missing, like computer software that may be downloaded from a global computer network for posting information, blah, blah, blah.
Let's say that one thing up until.
Well, let's just say up to here. Let's say they're not doing that. Then that part there they're supposed to abandon.
But who's enforcing that?
When they try to enforce against another party, that's what the other party will do.
do, the party will try to, to confirm that some of the goods
or services that are listed actually are not being sold.
Right. All right. And the other thing is, when they go to file
their renewal, the examiners, the examiners over the last like
five years have gotten very, very aggressive where they come
out and they say, Look, you need to send me a specimen for every
single thing that you have listed. You do that to Alibaba,
can you imagine how much money they have to spend just for one
renewal with an attorney, that attorney would literally have to
take every single one of those 5000 things that were listed and
find a specimen for that one thing. And then upload the
probably the largest ever renewal for a trademark ever
filed. You know, but that's, that's literally what will
happen. Catherine, I'm going to give you the last question. Go
ahead, my friend.
Sorry about that. I'm a little confused. My hand wasn't raised.
You were starting to comment when I was going through
something. And I said, Don't say anything yet. Because I wanted
to finish that let them finish counting. Otherwise, I would
have stopped and people would have lost track. So
I apologize. That was me commenting over here. Like, oh,
my gosh, like, that we measure things in this household by
our got this, like there. So that's a lot of all about this.
It is I mean, the renewal of this trademark could potentially
cost could could potentially cost $20,000. If if the attorney
has to go through literally every single item one by one.
And based on the fact that they're with that law firm, I
wouldn't doubt that they spent at least $10,000. It's a good
law firm. I'm just saying that, you know that they charge a lot
of money. So alright, my friends, I think that is enough
for you to digest. You have the video since you're VIP, you have
the videos for a little while. I highly encourage you to jump
into the protection portal. We do this and way more. We
continue going more and we talk about actual application in real
life. Like how do you actually implement some of these things?
And then we also talk about what's the cost? Like, you kind
of learn some of the top level things. But now you got to be
asking yourself, well, all right, what does it cost for a
declaration? What does it cost for an assignment document? You
know, if I end up doing a, a license agreement, what does it
typically cost for a lawyer to do a license agreement? We go
into all that kind of stuff in the portal, and we do a lot more
there. So I look forward to seeing you hope to see you
there. And it has been a true honor to serve you over the last
week. I'm going to sleep well this weekend. And yeah, so I'm
going to jump off Larissa. Thank you, Ray. Thank you. I'll catch
up with you ladies. Later. Just go relax.
Whoo.
Wow. Let me know. Thank you so much. Everyone. Thank you,
Anders and Carrie and Catherine, Kay, Carrie, Clyde, Mandy, all
your awesome, awesome participation. You guys are what
makes being here all that much better.