Okay. So this is November 2022. Welcome, Protection Portal members. Oh, actually, some of you
have been here since the beginning. So you're going to be getting a special communication
from me to give you an offer for a certain thing for all of you guys who have been here
since the very beginning. And matter of fact, let me talk about some administrative stuff
first, then we'll jump into the legal stuff. All right, so first, let me explain to you
what I'm what the offer is that I'm doing tomorrow. And the reason why I'm explaining
this to you is for multiple reasons. One is because I want to give a courtesy to all of
you because it wasn't available for you. So I want to let you know what's going to happen.
And then obviously, you have the option to jump in, but I'm giving it to you guys at
a way discounted rate because you guys are like the foundation members. And so, you know,
I just feel like you always try to honor the people that have been with you the longest,
you know, so I think that's just a good way to do things. So with that being the case,
the offer that I'm dropping tomorrow includes the following. It's a short two to three hour
IP audit. That's the first part. Okay. So the IP audit is where I sit down with the people for
two to three hours, talk about everything that they have, every scenario that they can think
about, you know, all the assets that they think they have. Yep, individually. That's correct.
It's not not as a group. It's one on one, which is honestly what people keep asking for anyway.
So that's, you have one on one time, we sit down for two, three hours. And we look at all the stuff
that you have. You explained to me your scenarios, you explained to me what you want to do in the
future, what you're currently doing, partnerships that you have with other people, where you want
your company to be all that stuff over like a two, maybe a two to two and a half hour time period.
Max, that's the maximum amount, okay. Because I'm discounting this so much, it's, I've got to make
it so that I actually work for the people that want to take it. After that, I will provide you
with a strategic plan. The strategic plan will lay out out of our after our conversation where
you've disclosed all the things that seem to be protectable, which things seem to be
already where you already have certain rights to like under common law rights, and which things
are things that you may have to file for. So you may have to file for trademark on this or
copyright on that or patent on that. And it kind of lays out what what I would do,
meaning time wise, based on our conversation, and based on what you've said is important to you.
And my knowledge of the law of patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets in many countries,
I give you a strategic plan that is based on what you currently have, what you could own,
and the sequence that I would do it in. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to follow that
sequence, it just means now you have a laid out for you. Okay, that's part one. Part two in the
offer is there is a trademark search that is performed for you a professional search by me,
plus a trademark application by me. Okay, so and that all happens in my new law firm. Okay,
not my old firm. Okay. So now you fall under, as you can imagine, you're gonna have to sign an
engagement agreement with the law firm. So this isn't like, you know, we just kind of jump in
because 80 challenges can't do legal work, or do my law firm can do legal work. So you'll get an
engagement agreement, you have to sign off on the engagement agreement. And then with the signing
off on the engagement agreement, then I can do the IP audit. And then I can do the the actual
give you the the layout of what I would do first, second, third, and then after that,
the trademark search and application. Now the people that jump in within 48 hours,
will receive a free bonus. And that free bonus is that they will be allowed into the protection
portal. Now, why? Well, it's called a free bonus. Obviously, we all know that there's,
it's the protection portal has its own value. Obviously, if you if you right now try to get
into the protection portal is $29.95. Okay, and people that are trying to get into protection
portal are not allowed in because I tell them they have to be in the challenge first.
Because I'm not letting people in. It's just I've had the request from coaches from other people,
I said
If your people go through the challenge first,
then they can be considered for the protection portal.
I'm not letting just anybody into the portal either.
Like I'm looking to see who the people are.
Are they ready?
Are they troublemakers?
Are they very negative about everything in life?
If they are, they're not coming.
It's like, we've got something
that is really working very well
and I want to keep it that way.
And so we reserved the rights to, you know,
and honestly the foundational members
also have a lot of feedback too.
Cause you know, if Jennifer calls me up and says,
you know, Bill is a real pain in the butt.
He's going to destroy absolutely everything
that's being built here.
I'm going to listen to Jennifer
and I'm going to interview Bill.
You know, I'm going to talk a little bit
and make sure that this is going to work
because we're moving, like we're moving up.
So there's a lot of things that are happening.
I want to make sure that you guys are well taken care of.
So with that being the case,
that offer is $54.95.
It includes an audit,
includes a strategic plan,
includes a professional search, trademark application.
That includes the United States Patent
and Trademark Office fees.
The official fees are not separate.
It's all included in there.
All official fees are included.
All third party fees are included.
Everything's in that price.
Okay.
So that's the offer that I'm dropping tomorrow.
Now, if people do not grab that offer within 48 hours,
it's gone.
There's no recovery period.
It's gone.
So what happens instead is that they can then,
if they want, join the protection portal alone.
But the cost for the protection portal alone is $29.95.
All right.
I'm still thinking,
I'm wondering if I'll keep it at $24.95 this first time.
I'll have to think about that.
I have to tonight to make up my mind.
So I may keep it at $24.95 just for this one time.
So that's the offer that's coming out.
So then the question becomes,
well, what about the people
that are in the portal already?
Like, what if they want to do an audit
and they want to do a trademark search and application?
What do you do for them?
So you guys are going to be getting an announcement
this week with a special offer
that is not available to people who are not in the portal.
So I can't tell you guys what the offer is
until I'm done with the other offer, quite frankly,
because if the other people find out,
they're going to go, well, I want that price.
It's like, well, you can't get that price.
You're not in the portal.
It's not available for you.
So it's severely discounted from what I just told you,
like way down.
Okay.
So I'll make it so that you guys can have the one-on-one time.
This is not group.
This is one-on-one time.
And it's actual legal advice.
It's not like, this is not legal advice.
It's not that.
Water.
Where's your water?
So it's not that it's not legal advice.
This is legal advice.
We're going into actual legal advice on your companies,
your guidance, your strategic plans,
and making sure you're in the right place.
Now, if you have like a big corporation,
you're not going to be able to take advantage of this
because you're not going to be done in two to three hours.
So you can't be, just to be clear,
you can't be a Steven Diaz and say, oh my gosh, I'm in.
Like you can't do that.
You can't be a Pedro Adeo.
Like you can't take this offer.
So Pedro, if you see this,
cause Pedro actually had something to do
with this offer too.
We actually had a call on something and he says,
why don't you do this?
And I said, that's a really good idea.
And so he actually knows about this offer.
He's like, that's a really good offer.
I said, yeah, you can't take it.
It's not available for you.
Your company's too big.
You can't do that.
So, but God bless him.
He's wonderful.
So that's the offer.
You guys will get a separate thing coming to you.
Okay.
There you go.
You got your water.
All right.
So with that, let me touch base on the first thing.
If you see people.
Hi Lynn.
Lynn's here.
Hi.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good.
I just raced in from the pharmacy.
So I'm just, I didn't know if you started an hour ago
or just now.
Oh, it's perfect.
Perfect timing.
We're jumping in deep now.
Thank you, Peter.
You're so welcome.
It was good seeing you at the 100x conference too.
Yeah, it was awesome.
It was, it was.
All right.
So what happens if you have your own IP
and somebody else is using it?
That's what I want to touch base on now.
Okay.
Because unfortunately many people
are just going to run into this.
A lot of you probably already are running into this
and it's frustrating.
And so let me just talk a little bit about.
how to handle this situation, okay?
The first thing I would do, honestly,
is I would do your research first.
I wouldn't jump out there
and start sending nasty grams to other people.
There's a thing called a declaratory judgment action
that can be filed against you
if another party feels that they're in the imminent threat
of being sued.
If they believe in their heart of hearts
that they are going to be sued by you,
they can preemptively strike.
This is dangerous, guys.
This is dangerous territory.
So don't just like randomly send a letter over to Dan.
Dan, I'm gonna sue you for stealing my incredible
blah, blah, blah, you know, that painting is mine,
you know, don't.
I would do some investigation first.
I would hire an attorney, honestly.
I mean, this is one of the areas
where you don't wanna mess around.
Okay, let me explain to you a few reasons why.
Number one, I've had situations
where I've had clients come out to me and say to me,
I wanna send a cease and desist letter.
Does everybody know what a cease and desist letter is,
by the way?
Does anybody not know what a cease and desist letter is?
It's okay if you don't.
Everybody, okay, cool.
All right, so a cease and desist letter
basically is a letter that you're sending over
to somebody saying, hey, cease, desist, you know,
it's basically saying, this is who I am.
I'll give you the basic structure
of a cease and desist letter.
This is who I am.
This is what I have and own.
So this is who I am.
Part two is this is what I have and own.
Part three is this is what I see you doing.
And then part four is your summary statement,
which is basically what you want, okay?
That last part, parts three and four
is where everybody gets in trouble
because they come out with guns blazing saying,
you stole this painting from my 100X conference.
And so, Lynn, I'm just playing, just saying.
So, you know, you stole this painting
from my 100X conference and, you know,
you're not allowed to do that
and you need to stop immediately.
If you don't stop immediately, I'm gonna sue you, right?
Now.
Peter, is this being recorded?
This is being recorded right now.
This is, I'm making this up.
This hasn't happened.
I'm just making this up.
Oh, I know, but I'm mostly wanting to know
because I can tell I'm gonna wanna re-watch this.
Oh, yes, it's being recorded.
You can re-watch it.
Okay, great, thank you.
Sure, absolutely.
Okay, so the different parts, I'll go through it again.
Yeah, part one, who am I?
Who am I?
That's part one, okay?
Part two, after you say, who am I?
You say, what I own.
Part two is what I own, okay?
Now, why do you not say who am I and then who they are?
Because you don't wanna come out there and say,
hey, I'm Peter Nieves.
Oh, and you're Bob such and such
and this is what you're doing and I own it.
Don't do that.
Say, this is who I am.
This is what I own.
So part one is, if I were drafting it as an example,
I would say, hey, this is Peter Nieves
of Nieves IP Law Group.
I own the website, nievesip.com.
For the last 25 years,
I've been practicing in intellectual property law.
I've been using the name Nieves IP for 20 of those years.
In 19, I don't know, in 1992,
I filed a federal trademark application for Nieves IP.
I obtained that trademark on blah, blah, blah date.
That federal registration is enforceable
in the United States
to stop any others from using a trademark
that is likely to confuse the public
as to the source of services, period.
So I'm laying out, this is who I am.
This is what I own.
This is the right associated with it.
Now, after I've done that,
now I've got a section that says who they are.
So it'll just say, I'll actually have a section,
let's say it's ABC Company.
I'll say ABC Company's Actions.
That'll be the title.
Then underneath that, I'll start out with,
we've recently become aware of ABC's use of Nieves IP
in a publication dated October 18th.
2022 as attached herein as an exhibit,
or as attached herein as schedule A, something like that.
So now I've got the attachment.
There's the proof.
Here it is.
I'm not just making this up.
Like, here's the proof.
Here it is.
ABC Corporation may not be aware of the fact
that Nieves IP is a federally registered trademark
of Peter Nieves.
Okay, hey, hey.
So it's kind of like, again, laying it out step by step.
Stop!
Although it was amusing.
There you go.
Oh, nope.
There we go.
Okay.
So again, just one more time.
I'm starting out with who I am, what I own,
who you are, what you're doing, okay?
Now I gotta get to what I want.
Now, this is the dangerous area.
Okay, this is the danger zone, guys.
This is where lawsuits happen.
If you come out saying,
you are infringing upon my trademark,
and if you don't stop within the next 30 days,
I'm gonna sue you,
you just opened yourself up for a lawsuit, okay?
Now, if you're okay with that,
if you've got plenty of money,
like if you're a multimillionaire with your own island,
like Samuel over here,
Samuel, like he owns an island, right?
You own an island, right?
So I mean, if you have those kinds of assets
and you have no problem with it, then-
Not yet.
Yeah, not yet, not yet.
Yeah, you qualified it, not yet.
Pretty soon, though.
So for that reason, you don't wanna come out and say that,
because if the other party believes
that they're going to be sued,
they can file a declaratory judgment action against you.
What that means is that they can file a document
with the court, a complaint against you,
saying that they believe they're gonna be sued by you
unrightly, meaning that it's not a justified action.
Your suing them would be an unjustified action.
So they're bringing it before a court of law
in their own jurisdiction to make sure,
well, that's Todd Enwall.
Hold on one second.
Let me make sure he knows.
Hey, Todd, we're in the protection portal right now.
Where are you?
You know, I'm just calling to check on you.
You're on my heart.
All right, thanks, bro.
Let me call you afterwards, okay?
I didn't know if you were looking for the link,
so I'll call you right after, brother.
Bye-bye.
All right, so that's Todd and Tamara.
So there, that was really nice.
These are the kind of calls I get from you guys.
Like, are you doing okay?
Because everybody knows I'm starting my own firm,
so I'm grateful.
So that's the sequence there, okay?
So just, again, you don't want to come out
with guns blazing.
This is the way I would do it.
And again, please talk to your lawyers.
Make sure a lawyer reviews this.
Don't send out a letter unless your lawyer looks at it, okay?
But the way I would word it would be more like,
I've recently become aware of the fact
that you're using the EVIS IP,
which has brought concern to us
since we have a federal registration for EVIS IP.
It may be that you're not aware of our federal registration.
For that reason, we wanted to make you aware,
and we ask that you please stop using the name
going forward.
Please send a response confirming
that you've received this communication
and that you are doing so within the next 30 days.
Thank you for your cooperation.
All the best.
Like, that's a soft letter.
That's a soft letter.
I have clients that don't like soft letters.
They like come out,
and the way those letters read instead are,
we recently became aware of your using,
of your using EVIS IP without our permission,
which is a violation of, and they list the statute.
You are to immediately cease all use.
Pull our product from the shelves,
and send us $10,000, you know,
to handle legal fees and blah, blah, blah,
within the next 15 days.
If we don't receive correspondence from you
and proof of your doing these steps,
we will proceed with filing a complaint against you
in federal district court.
Like, do you see the difference?
Like, those are the two different extremes, right?
Can you do the first one again, Peter?
I'm sorry.
No, no, no problem, no problem.
So the first one, again,
make sure that you speak to your lawyer, Lynn,
you know, send it to them to review it.
But the-
First one in a soft, what I call it is a soft notice letter
as opposed to a cease and desist, right?
I wouldn't even use the title cease and desist.
I would use more like a title like notification
regarding potential trademark infringement
or notification regarding ownership rights of Nieves IP,
something like that, it's softer.
That's your first shot.
It's a general, it's like smoke signals, right?
Before you come out with the cannon, you're gonna say,
hey, maybe you didn't know, right?
And I don't know if you guys realize this,
but this is biblical too.
It says, don't just walk in the court
against your brother, right?
Because now your fate is in the hand of a third party
and you're hoping that they're gonna act out of justice.
It's much better to try to resolve the matter
between yourselves, you know, in a godly fashion.
So this is kind of trying to do that, all right?
So the letter would say,
I'll kind of walk through the whole thing with you.
Let's say it's Nieves IP.
So I would say I represent Nieves IP Law Group.
Nieves IP is a federally registered trademark
of Nieves IP Law Group.
And therefore the trademark is owned
throughout the United States and enforceable.
And I'd also even talk about the goodwill
that I've spent on it.
So I'd say, you know, Nieves IP Law Group
has spent considerable time and financial resources
in protection of its trademark, Nieves IP Law,
Nieves IP, and in making the public aware
of the services that are provided.
Like I'd kind of talk up what I've done
to make this trademark known to the public.
I wouldn't just say,
yeah, I've got a federal registration, period.
Like if you spent time in ads, I would mention,
you know, there's been advertising associated with this.
If you've sold product throughout the United States,
I would say, and we've sold product
throughout the United States using this trademark.
So this trademark is known
throughout all the United States.
It's not just federally registered.
It's known throughout the United States.
Like I would kind of talk it up, right?
So to realize it's not just some random thing.
So now the next thing is,
I would say ABC Corporation's Actions.
That would be the next title.
Under that, I would say we recently became aware,
we have recently, it has recently come to our attention
that ABC Corporation has been using Nieves IP
as a trademark on blah, blah, blah.
Please see the attached.
And so you're showing them an example
of how they're using it in an improper manner.
So now they've got that to look at,
and then you just use nice soft language.
Like it may be that ABC Corporation was not aware
that Nieves IP is a federally registered trademark
of Nieves IP Law Group, period.
For this reason, we have sent this communication
to make you aware of the same.
Now that ABC Corporation is aware
of this federally registered trademark,
we ask that ABC Corporation cease use of Nieves IP for,
and then you would list the goods and services
that are within your trademark application, right?
Because you're just copying and pasting
what's in your own trademark application.
So if your trademark is for Nike and it's for footwear,
then you'd say, we request that or we ask
that ABC Corporation no longer use Nike for footwear
because that's in your registration services or goods.
So you're just copying it and pasting it, right?
And so, and then after that, you could say,
please confirm in writing receipt
and agreement to this request.
This is our attempt to amicably resolve this matter.
We'd like to hear from you within the next 30 days.
All the best.
It's a soft way of doing that.
I've actually been to CLEs,
Continuing Legal Education courses,
just on how to draft a cease and desist
and not end up in litigation.
Okay.
Because again, if they feel threatened,
they can file a DJ action against you.
Now you're forced to go to court.
And we don't want that.
We don't want that.
You're just trying to defend yourself.
It's not right that you end up in court.
Let me open it up to questions right now.
Again, the preface to this entire thing is,
call your lawyers, right?
But here's the thing,
if you draft most of that letter yourself,
your lawyers should just be able to tweak it.
So you end up saving yourself a thousand bucks.
See, there's little things that I continue to teach you
that'll make it so that your costs go lower and lower
when you're working with attorneys.
Like, you're not trying to get rid of the attorneys.
Like, when you need a surgeon, you need a surgeon, right?
You're not saying, well, I want the nurse to do it.
Like, hey, you know how to do things
with blood pressure and all.
Can't you just cut around the heart
and get rid of that thing there?
You know, I'm sure you've seen it on TV.
No, you want to talk to the lawyer, okay?
But try to get some of this stuff in place beforehand.
All right, any questions on that before we move on?
Doesn't look like it.
Lynn, are you all set on that?
I think she's all set.
Yes, I am.
Okay, perfect.
I'm so glad this is on replay
because I didn't get it at all down on paper.
It's no problem.
Super, super helpful though, thank you.
Sure, sure.
Okay, all right, let me talk about a question
that ironically, I'm going to move to the next topic.
Was that helpful, guys?
Does that kind of help you guys out?
Okay, so the reason why I'm going through this is,
again, you guys, as you're protecting your IP,
chances are you're going to run into somebody who's using it
and you're going to want to know, well, what do I do now?
That's what you do now, all right?
You don't just call them up and say,
hey, I'm going to sue you, cut it out.
It's like, now you're in court and you're like,
Peter, what do I do now?
It's like, well, now it's 600 bucks an hour.
So let's make sure we're not in that situation, okay?
All right, so I had a phone call this morning
from a friend of mine in the mastermind.
He's walking into doing a deal
and he just called me up like I'm in the shower.
I get, afterwards, I call him back
and his question was as follows.
And it's awfully ironic
that Jill just asked the same question.
So on the same day, so that is pretty interesting.
So what if you're trying to compare what you're doing
to what somebody else is doing?
What's the safe way of doing that, right?
So he called me about a TEDx.
Everybody knows what TEDx things are?
TED, like, you know, right?
So he called me about, he's in a different industry.
He's in like small homes.
That's his like his business.
And so he said, he's starting up a certain thing.
And so he said, I want to be able to say,
this is like the TEDx for small homes.
Like, can you do that?
Because you're using somebody else's trademark
in describing what you're doing.
And Jill, you asked something similar.
So your question, which is something
that we traditionally do in our family,
even though obviously we don't believe in it,
we just do it because it's fun,
that Elf on a Shelf thing.
It's kind of fun, so we do it.
So your question was, I'm doing a challenge
around developing your own holiday IP
for income and impact.
Am I copyright infringing?
It would be trademark infringing.
To use the phrase, be the next Elf on a Shelf in my copy.
Okay.
All right.
This is a tricky one, guys.
This is really tricky.
Because technically, what you're asking is,
can I use somebody else's trademark
in a comparative thing, right?
So like, can I come out with a new sneaker line and say,
these are the new Nikes on the block?
You know, something like that.
That is comparative, which is allowed.
You're allowed to compare.
There's nothing wrong with comparing.
The question becomes though,
does it potentially fall into like unfair competition
where you're taking advantage of another person's trademark
for personal value?
And is there, in the trademark world,
there's this thing called likelihood of confusion.
So is there any chance that in the statement
that you're making, people are gonna believe
that you're the makers of Elf on a Shelf?
Well, if you say it the right way, the answer is no.
So I don't think that's a problem there.
The question is, it's not really an IP question.
It's more of a tort question, which is unfair business
practice, unfair competition.
That's kind of more of a corporate law issue.
Mench on a bench.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember that.
I saw that.
It was kind of funny.
So mench on a bench.
So to answer your question, yes, you can compare.
And you can say, these are the new Adidas.
But the problem is, if anybody believes that you're saying
you are Adidas, or if Adidas gets upset with you,
they could sue you.
So you've got to make it very clear
that you're distinguishing.
So when I spoke with him, I said,
why don't you say instead?
He came up with a name for this thing.
It was like, I don't remember what it was,
but he had a name for it.
And he said, the such and such for little homes.
So I said, well, why don't you say the such and such
for little homes, like TEDx is to the business world?
Because that's like comparative.
That's so comparative, it's clear.
It's not like saying, like TEDx.
If you just say, like TEDx, then you
are intending it to be comparative,
but it's not as clear as if you said,
as TEDx is to the business world.
Now that's showing that you're saying,
we're as good in our industry as TEDx is in the business world.
That's good.
But if you come out and you say something like,
we're the new elf on a shelf, I think, is it safe?
The question isn't, is it safe?
Are you going to run into problems?
The question is, are you going to spend money
on lawyers trying to make sure that you
can prove that you're safe?
That's really what I look at when I tell people what to do.
I don't just tell them, yeah, legally you'll win.
Legally winning is not what most people want to know.
People want to know, am I going to get sued?
That's what they truly want to know.
If I answered all the time as, yes, that's legally sound,
then 90% of the people that I'd speak to, I could say,
yep, do it, do it, yep, because I know I'll win in court.
But they're going to spend half a million,
or in patent litigation, $2 million,
to get to that win, which to me is a loss.
With that being said, looking at the example that Jill gives,
let me just grab that one.
Be the next elf on a shelf.
So is it OK to say, be the next elf on a shelf?
I mean, arguably, yes.
I actually changed it to become.
Become, is that better?
Become the next elf on a shelf?
Develop your own Christmas IP.
Yeah, I mean, it's comparative.
You're not using the trademark in a trademark manner.
Like, you're respecting that it's theirs.
You're not saying it's mine.
Like, you didn't come out and say elf on a shelf
on your website.
You're describing something to compare yourself to another.
That's OK.
The only area you just got to be careful of
is unfair business practice.
But I don't think they have a case, honestly,
for unfair business practice either.
I don't think using a language like, become the next Kleenex
or become the next Microsoft, something like that,
that is being used in a descriptive manner.
You're telling people about something descriptively.
That in and of itself is not a problem.
And again, this is not legal advice.
So you should be talking to your lawyers to double check,
triple check everything.
So nothing that we discuss here is legal advice ever.
I'm giving you guidance.
And then you guys can look into it further.
But comparative stuff is not a problem.
The place where you can run into problems
is not like what you're talking about.
There's a thing called dilution.
It's in trademark law.
It's called dilution.
The way dilution works is very interesting.
If you start using the term Kleenex as tissue,
then you can be sued by the owners of Kleenex,
the trademark, because you're diluting the trademark.
You're not doing that.
So if you're using a trademark in a descriptive manner,
then the people who own the trademark could sue you
for using the trademark in a descriptive manner,
thereby diluting,
meaning decreasing the strength of their trademark.
So as an example, Xerox, right?
If you come out with an ad and the ad says,
hey guys, make sure you Xerox
what I send over to you and send it back.
That's using somebody's federally registered trademark
as a descriptive term.
You're not allowed to do that.
That is, that's a big no-no.
That's called dilution.
You can be sued for that.
So when you say become the next Elf on a Shelf,
you just wanna make sure you're not using it
in a descriptive manner, right?
So if Elf on a Shelf were a descriptive term,
which I don't believe it is,
you're talking about the company.
You're talking about the product line.
So I don't see that being a problem.
Xerox and Kleenex, that's right.
Those are two examples of dilution.
I mean, there have been lawsuits by Xerox.
I mean, that used to be
one of the most powerful trademarks out there.
Xerox, huge.
Scott's Tape, another one, very good.
That's another one.
Why am I getting phone calls all of a sudden?
Let me just turn this thing off
so nobody bothers me anymore.
That was Joshua Stevens.
I'll call you back, okay.
Peter, can you explain again
when you say it's descriptive?
I'm not sure what you're saying.
Like when you said like Xerox this and send this to me,
I'm not using it descriptive.
I'm using Xerox as a verb, as something you should do.
Exactly.
And all it implies versus saying, send me,
I don't even how you would use Xerox descriptively.
Yeah, so Xerox is a brand of printer, right?
So there's the Xerox brand printer.
Xeroxing something,
there's no such thing as Xeroxing something.
Somebody all of a sudden said,
everybody owns Xerox printers.
So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna just say,
hey, why don't you Xerox that thing back to me?
I'm gonna use the term Xerox as a descriptor,
as an action, as opposed to
as the actual printer itself, right?
So if you use a trademark-
You're using the word descriptor
for the same thing as a verb?
Because when you say Xerox-
In this case it is, in this case it is,
because the descriptor doesn't have to be a verb.
Descriptor could be a noun, could be anything.
So let's say like-
It's like you're using the brand name
instead of the generic of what it is.
Instead of saying a tissue,
you're saying, can you get me a Kleenex?
Yes.
Right, so that's-
Because the way that trademarks are supposed to be used,
and this is a little tricky, Jennifer,
so I have no problem elaborating on this at all.
The way a trademark is supposed to be used
is you should be able to use the word brand after it.
So you should be able to say,
get me a Kleenex brand tissue, right?
You shouldn't say, get me a Kleenex.
If you say, get me a Kleenex,
that means you're calling the tissues Kleenex.
That means you're using-
You're not using the trademark as a trademark.
You're using that as a description of the good itself.
And that's not allowed.
That's diluting the power of the original trademark.
And so if you actually own a trademark,
you wanna make sure that you don't use that trademark
in a descriptive manner.
If you use it in a descriptive manner, you can lose it.
Okay, so let's say like-
It's another one, Band-Aid.
Band-Aid's another one.
Do you realize people say, go get me a Band-Aid?
They're talking about the actual apparatus.
They're not talking about the brand Band-Aid.
I can say to somebody, go get me a Band-Aid.
They'll give me a totally different brand.
And I said, no, I asked for a Band-Aid.
They're like, that is a Band-Aid.
Like, that's it.
You peel the two parts off.
You put it on your cut.
That's a Band-Aid.
It's like, no, that's not a Band-Aid.
That's an adhesive material
that's placed on your cut.
Band-Aid is a trademark.
You're using it as if Band-Aid is an adhesive material
placed on a cut with a cottonness or porous portion
so as to absorb any bodily fluids, blah, blah, blah.
I could bore you all day long with this.
So the whole point of this is
you can't use a trademark as the good.
Adhesive material for my cut.
I will teach my son to call it the, oh my gosh.
I am not responsible for your son being upset.
Let's just put it that way.
With the Band-Aid-
Mom, I've got a cut.
Can you give me an adhesive material?
What?
So with the Band-Aid, there was-
I was actually at a point in time where they even had their commercials changed, did anybody
notice that?
There used to be this commercial with the jingle, I'm stuck on Band-Aids because Band-Aids
are stuck on me.
And they changed it to Band-Aid brand.
Yes!
Now you understand why.
That's exactly why they did that.
Because everybody started, every time they ever saw this adhesive band, adhesive material,
what do they do?
They said, that's what I want.
And so all these other companies are coming out with these adhesive, you know, materials.
And so Band-Aid, like they started losing the power of their, the trademark because
people literally would have on their packages for Scott's brand adhesive materials.
It would say, you can use these Band-Aids to cover your cuts.
No, Band-Aid is a trademark of another company.
You can't describe your product by using somebody else's trademark.
That's not allowed.
That's trademark infringement.
And so in this case, you just have to be careful.
So to go back to the original question, can I say, be like, you know, be like the, be
like, be like the Elon Musk of the, of the, of the, what do you call it?
What do you call it?
The rockets of, of the space age, of space age, you know, something like that.
Hey, so you, you can use that comparatively speaking.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Just be careful that you're not diluting their mark and you're not, the way that you mentioned
it, Jill should be fine.
Okay.
Does anybody have any question on what we just went over?
Cause that, that's a little complex.
So the whole point is you can't, go ahead Holly.
Well, I mean, isn't it kind of like a, don't they kind of want to get to that point where
everybody's using, I mean, when you get to that point, when everybody is using your brand
name for the thing, isn't that kind of like what they would want?
It's a great question.
So imagine that you spend $10 million in a year advertising Holly's, you know, whatever,
let's say you have Holly's we'll say cookies, let's get John upset, upset.
So we have Holly's cookie brand, right?
So Holly has her own cookie brand spends $10 million and it's called, they're called Holly's
right?
Just H O L L Y S that's what they're called.
And everybody's following Holly's.
Oh my gosh.
Did you guys get a, did you get any Holly's this year?
Oh, I didn't know.
I've got to make sure I get them.
They should be saying Holly's brand cookies, but they're saying, did you get your Holly's
this year?
Right.
And so all of a sudden this other company comes out and it's called just like Holly's,
you know?
So their ads are saying, we're just like Holly's.
We're just like Holly's.
Now what they're doing is they're writing your coattails.
They're writing the fact that you have spent tens of millions of dollars in advertising,
high quality products, the best things out there.
And instead of trying to build their own campaign by making a single statement that says, just
like Holly's, they're taking advantage of all the advertising that you did.
And they're putting in the public's mind immediately.
Oh, I know Holly's they're a little pricey.
These are a little cheaper.
Let me buy theirs.
They just bypassed years of marketing, years of like failures and rebranding and everything
just by using your name.
Is that fair?
No.
The answer is no.
If you did all that hard work, you should be able to be the one who has the advantage
of all that hard work.
Right.
So you've got to be careful.
There has to be a there's there's a comparison to see just how much just how much can you
say?
You know, you can't come out with a brand that's called just like Holly's like that's
that's essentially using their trademark in your trademark that they can't do that.
That's not allowed.
Now, can they do an advertisement that says, well, you've tried Holly's.
We're just as good.
If it's true and it's not it's not libelous, meaning it's not a lie, then by all means,
like there's a whole body of law that's focused on comparative advertising.
You know just how much can you do and maybe what I'll do next time is I'll post some articles
on that and I'll post them in the in our group so you can see just what you can and can't
do in comparative advertising.
Right.
Because, you know.
you can, you, Bonnie, all of a sudden says, Man, I'm good at
this challenge thing. I'm gonna start my own challenging
street. And I'm going to call it just as good as Pedro. You know,
it's like, it's like, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a phone
call. So it's just, you know, it's, it's all of a sudden,
people are thinking, well, hold it. I'm Peter. The mere fact
that you're using his name, you know, is an issue. Because the
fact that what you're doing is, it's basically like unfair
business practice. It's, I'm trying to take advantage of the
other person's name now. But that didn't stop Burger King
from going up against McDonald's and ads. That didn't stop
Wendy's from mentioning McDonald's and Burger King in
their ingredients. When Wendy's had, you know, the snack bar
area where you can add all the lettuce and tomato and onions
and pickles and whatever you want. They came out with an ad
that said, we're not like McDonald's. You can add all the
stuff you want at one price. That's comparative advertising.
But they didn't come out with an ad that says, just like
McDonald's, like that's, that's a little, they just, there's a
line you got to be careful of. And so what I tell people is
just be, just try to stay as far from that line as possible.
Because you just don't want to end up in legal problems if you
don't need to be, you know, is this helping you guys
understanding what you can and can't do? Okay, good. So I'm
going to drop I think I'll drop a few articles that I know of
that speak about what is allowed in comparative advertising. So
if you're going to come out there, and you're going to run a
challenge, and you want to say, you know, just like TED Talks,
or stuff like that, you can say there's certain ways you can do
it. And those articles should kind of give you some more
details on that. Okay.
I've got a quick question. Go ahead, Samuel. So this is along
the lines of dilution. What if you come up with a trademark for
a not necessarily a product, but a process name, and you want to
use it as a verb? Are you diluting it yourself? Like if
you come up with your own trademark? Yeah, your own
trade? Yes. You can end up diluting your own trademark.
This is this is exactly that's actually a defense in
litigation. So if, if, let's say Samuel, you sued, Mark, right,
Mark starts using your trademark, your trademark is
like, Twenda, right? I don't know, I just made it up Twenda.
So now you're using that. And well, you can't really say,
let's say Twenda is, they're like, I don't know, let's say
it's a kind of food item or something like that. So now
instead of instead of people saying, Hey, can you get some of
the Twenda brand supplement? Everybody just said, everybody
just starts talking about Twenda. That's it. They don't.
They use it in a descriptive manner. So now instead of
saying, like the brand of vanilla bean that you buy, or
the brand of vanilla extract that you buy, they just use the
name. They just say Twenda.
What if, what if the name itself is descriptive? Like it's
describing
it never should have been a trademark. Really? Yeah. I
mean, because you can't get a federal registration on a
descriptive mark, unless there's an exception to the rule. All
right. So this goes back to Jennifer's question, which was
descriptiveness, right? That was part of what we were kind of
talking about a little bit there. So with trademarks,
they're not allowed to be descriptive of the goods or the
services. Because if you get a federal registration on a on a
trademark, that's descriptive, then nobody can ever use those
words to describe the goods. So if you have, if you have a wood
company, and you make red doors, you can't own the name
red door in construction or in, in, in carpentry, you can't own
red door. Why? Because then anybody that sees a red door
that says, Oh, I'm gonna sell red doors at Lowe's, boom,
trademark infringement. So what are you supposed to say? Oh,
they're blood. They're blood colored doors. Like no, like you
need to say red. You say door. So the United States Patent
Trademark Office won't allow you to get a federal registration
for red door lipstick. Yes, you can get that. Absolutely. You
could also have red door perfume. Right? My wife uses
red door for the perfume. So that's fine. But what you can't
do is get red door
doors, because that's descriptive of the doors.
So I think maybe I should refine what I'm saying,
because I'm talking about being descriptive of a process
and not necessarily a product.
Sure.
Does that make a difference?
Is it the same applies?
Yeah, so when you file a trademark application,
you have the registration of goods and services, right?
So if it's like for t-shirts, it'll say t-shirts.
But if the service might be the manufacturing of t-shirts,
right, so that would be the description of the service.
If in the description of the service,
the words that you would use to describe the service
are the actual trademark, that's not allowed.
OK, so think of it this way.
Let's say that you come up with a new trademark that's
like kingdom finance, or no, kingdom revenue.
Let's say it's called kingdom revenue, right?
And so in your recitation of services,
it says how to increase your revenue
by use of kingdom principles.
I mean, you just shot yourself in the foot
in your own recitation of services,
because you're using the word kingdom in there
and you're using the word revenue in there.
And so your trademark is kind of descriptive
of your own services.
And the United States Patent and Trademark Office
is going to go, no, no, no, no.
You can't, because if we give you that,
then you're never going to be able to describe the services.
Like I can't give you a trademark
for something that's descriptive.
Does that make sense?
Yes, yes.
That's helpful.
They'll do that analysis to determine whether or not
they're going to allow your trademark to register.
So now let's say that you use your trademark
in a descriptive manner now.
So now you own kingdom revenue.
So now on all of your ads,
you're saying increase your revenue using kingdom values,
or you just come out and say, kingdom revenue,
we'll say kingdom revenue.
Kingdom revenue increases
when you apply the principles of God.
So that's descriptive.
Instead of just saying kingdom revenue,
and then underneath it, you talk about what you do.
Those are two different things.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that, again, it goes back to,
don't seek trademarks for descriptive things.
You end up wasting a lot of money.
Now there's an exception to this,
just so you guys know,
because you guys are more advanced than most.
There's an exception to this rule.
Okay.
And it's called acquired distinctiveness.
All right.
Acquired distinctiveness.
What that means is that if you've been using this thing
for like five or 10 years, right?
And everybody in the industry is kind of getting to know
you as being the foundation of that term,
even though it might be considered to be kinda descriptive.
Now this doesn't work for things
that are definitely descriptive.
Like, you know, brown door, can't get it in construction.
Like it's not gonna happen.
But if it's kind of like, you know,
if it's kind of like brown,
I don't know, brown portal or something like that,
you know, so it's like that there does
for brown doors essentially,
but it's called brown portal.
Somebody might say, well, it's kind of descriptive
because a door is really a portal.
So we think it's descriptive.
Then what you can do if they reject it
is you can ask for it to be registered
under the supplemental register.
It's called the supplemental register, right?
A lot of people have never heard of this.
If they reject your trademark as merely descriptive,
you can potentially tell them,
I want to register it under the supplemental register.
To get a registration under the supplemental register,
you have to have been using it for five years at least,
exclusively for at least five years, okay?
So this is what you do.
If you get a rejection on your trademark application
and you're thinking that's not descriptive
and the USPTO is thinking it is descriptive,
ask your lawyer about the supplemental register.
Just say to them,
can I put this on the supplemental register?
And they'll say to you, how in the world do you know
what the supplemental register is?
Because a lot of lawyers don't know
what the supplemental register is, okay?
But that's a loophole because what that does now
is if you get a registered on the supplemental register,
that means nobody can ever file for that same name ever
because you have preemptive rights
under the supplemental register.
You may not have a federal registration with the USPTO
as a normal federal trademark,
but nobody else could get what you have.
And if you're continuing to use something over and over,
It can grow in strength, even though it's arguably
descriptive.
So it's an exception to the rule.
Don't rely upon it.
It's something that's out there.
Jodi, do you have a question?
OK.
All right.
Let me look through a chat.
If any of you have had a question through this,
I haven't looked through a chat.
So does the name apply?
Jodi said, does that apply to a company name?
You mean descriptiveness?
Yeah, same thing.
Trademarks can be company names.
They can be goods.
They can be services.
They can be lots of different things.
Can they be, I'm sure you told us this in the challenge,
but can they be goods and services
for the same one, the same trademark covering both?
Yes, but that would be two different trade.
So you can file one trademark application,
but you're going to end up selecting
two international classes.
Because goods are a different international class
from services.
So that means you're going to end up paying,
if you're paying $275 per class, you're
going to end up paying $550.
Because goods and services don't fall into the same class.
The USPTO separated them, arguably to get more money.
OK.
Who knew?
Let me just see if there's any other questions in the chat
before I move on.
Jill had an interesting question.
What is it?
I didn't see it.
I said, can I?
Dan, can I tell my competitors that they need to stop
before I nearly miss them?
That's awesome.
So that's where I said, can a community
turn a trademark into descriptive jargon
without being accused of dilution?
For example, be sure you nearly miss the word
Be sure you need it as your IP.
Yeah.
Yes.
And me personally, I think that's flattering,
quite frankly.
I mean, that's humbling if people do that.
I have no problem with it.
But I can tell you that if you start saying every,
let's say you have a software development group
and everybody has their own software development
that they do, and every time people get together,
you say, you know what, you need to Microsoft that.
That's diluting the trademark Microsoft.
And so I'm sure Microsoft would be upset about that
if your group kept growing and growing and growing
and you started having ads saying, hey,
stop trying to bring something forward yourself.
Microsoft it.
They're going to come after you and say,
you're diluting our trademark.
You can't do that.
They won't be as flattered.
Okay.
I think we've hit that and we hit the questions on that.
So I think we're fine there.
All right.
So let me open it up for any questions here
before I look at some of the other questions
that Joe had and Jennifer.
Anybody have any questions on anything specific
happening within your company?
Well, I'll just add to that question that I asked.
What do you do if your company name is descriptive?
Because I think that's what mine is.
That's a great question.
And been using it a lot of years, huh?
Do you want to discuss it now
or do you want to discuss it offline?
The name of your company?
We'll do it offline then.
So, all right.
So let's say that you do have a quote unquote
descriptive name, right?
What you could do is you could create a DBA, right?
You could create a DBA with a name
that actually is distinctive
and then file a trademark for the distinctive name.
And then when you file the trademark application,
you can list the DBA, right?
So you'll list the original company,
but then when you file the trademark application,
it'll say doing business as,
and it'll have the name of the trademark there, right?
So that way you can enforce your trademark anywhere.
Because the problem is you can't stop people
from using a descriptive term.
So as you grow and grow and grow
and other people start saying,
man, that name, I like that name a lot.
I think I'm going to use it.
You can't stop them.
But remember, descriptiveness is based on the goods
or the services that are associated with them, right?
So again, red door is not descriptive of perfume.
So you can use red door.
You use red door for computers.
You can use red door for tires.
You know, I mean, you can,
so just because a certain phrase
is descriptive in one international class
does not mean that it's.
descriptive in all international classes. That's what I want you to remember.
So if you do have a descriptive name for your company now, that's okay. Come up with a DBA.
If you want to be able to say that this is my name and I don't want anybody else using it,
especially if you're growing because you don't want to be growing with a generic name.
You don't want to come out with, you know, like Kingdom Marriage and you're in marriage
counseling. You're in ministry for marriage counseling and the name of your company is
Kingdom Marriage. That is not a good name for a company because all these other people are
bringing, they're focused on a Kingdom Marriage. So now how is anybody supposed to know, oh I want
to go to Jodi. Her program is one of the best out there. How do I find it? Let me go on Google
Kingdom Marriage. It's like a thousand other people that have that name. How do I find her,
right? So you're actually serving your people better when you have your own trademark, when
you have your own name. You're serving them better because now they know where to receive
that same quality of service or product, right? And especially if you're a Christian-based or
focused business and you're trying to bring the Kingdom forward, you want to make sure they can
find you easily. Jesus didn't hide. He didn't go out putting out ads, but he kind of did because
he had people announcing his presence before he showed up. So I'd say his number
one advertiser was the Holy Spirit. So other people knew. What you're doing is
important. There's nothing wrong with advertising and making sure people know about it, but make sure
that you have a distinctive name when you do that. You're a creative genius.
Hold on. Somebody owns your creative genius? That's not really necessarily. That's not
technically descriptive. You're a creative genius? I mean, what would that be descriptive of?
So I don't think that's so bad. So anyways, I can't give legal advice here, but I wouldn't think
that that's horrible. Uh-oh. With that, let me move to some of these other questions
that some of the people have. Yeah, go ahead, Jo.
Unmute. Okay. So part of what I'm developing is an IP development community. How do I protect
each other from each other so that that space feels safe? Yeah, that's a great question.
During development. So you're doing live, you have a live environment,
and people were sharing there in the live environment?
Well, at my hire ticket, yes. So it's not entirely a map. I mean,
it's not entirely a map. I mean, I'm putting together a mastermind eventually, but right now,
it's hot seats, but there is a community where they can share in it and ask questions and get
feedback, but they're sharing IP ideas. Yeah, that's a problem. This is why when I'm in certain
groups that I'm involved in, and I see people starting to say their trademarks, their ideas,
I cringe because I just know people can be losing rights immediately just by disclosing certain
things. Like in the patent world, there are statutory bars. In the United States, there's
three statutory bars, right? There's the public use bar, the offer for sale bar, and the publication
bar. But in foreign countries, there's no statutory bar. It's an absolute non-disclosure requirement.
So if in one of your meetings, they start disclosing their invention, they can lose rights
throughout the world, except in the United States where they can file within one year.
So it's really messy. So even an NDA, if it was a... I mean, primarily, we're starting through
storybooks. So it's characters and worlds and things that will be copyrighted as soon as their
book is published. And they will have the rights to that. But is there...
Would NDAs that they all sign? Is there some legal document?
NDAs are contractual obligations between individuals to hold them accountable to not
disclosing. They don't...
don't stop statutory bars from ticking.
In the United States, there's three statutory bars.
Those statutory bars don't care if you file an NDA
or if you're in the NBA, they don't care.
There's no difference.
It has no bearing on-
And that's for what?
Trademark or copyright or everything?
That's, well, the statutory bars apply to patents only.
Okay, so if I wasn't talking about any inventions
or software or anything like that,
we were just doing things that would be copyrightable
or trademarkable?
Well, in the copyright world, the second that I create
something, I have rights under it immediately.
The second that I create it, second that I place it
in some kind of fixable form, I now have rights
associated with it immediately, okay?
Whether or not I file a copyright or not,
I have certain rights immediately.
So if you had an NDA, if I had an NDA in my group
and then people just started disclosing,
well, this is what my book's gonna cover, blah, blah, blah.
And the subject matter of the book
is not protectable by copyright.
Copyright does not protect subject matter.
Copyright protects the embodiment of the idea,
meaning the book itself.
Okay.
So the concept of, I've got a book,
there's this guy, he's actually a ranger.
That's what he does for a living in New Hampshire.
He goes deep in the woods because he hears
that there's a bear that's been wounded.
He goes out to put it out of its misery
because it's causing some problems.
As he's out there, he finds a small pool of water.
When he goes to the small pool of water
and he reaches in because he wants a drink,
he's transported into another world.
When he gets into the other world, he finds this woman.
This woman is familiar with the area.
She starts to introduce him to her family
and he becomes a member of their tribe.
And that starts a whole new adventure.
That concept there, I don't own that concept
through copyright.
I own the book that I wrote about that.
That's the words that are written, copyright covers.
But the concept of that, you can take that exact
same concept and write your own book.
I can't stop you.
So when you have these meetings talking
about people's concepts,
a non-disclosure agreement is helpful for concepts
to make sure other people don't steal their concepts.
And in an NDA, it actually does say in there,
if you've derived it yourself or by a third party
or it's publicly available, then the NDA is null and void.
That language is always in an NDA.
So let's say you disclose something to me, Jill,
and I'm thinking, well, I've been working on that
for six months.
I've got proof of that.
I'm not gonna be locked in by this NDA
when I've been coming up with the same stuff myself
for years, right?
So that's an exception to the NDA that's in the NDA.
So I would continue having the NDA,
just know that within the group,
you can't stop a statutory bar.
Somebody starts talking about their invention.
Somebody says, I've got a new medical device
and the medical device can be utilized
to assist in taking out the tonsils, right?
And it has this part and this part and this part
and they start talking about it.
That's disclosing the invention in your group meeting.
And so I would stop them immediately
because if they disclose that in foreign countries,
foreign countries, you may not be able
to obtain any rights at all.
Now, to really get you guys confused, why not?
We're at it already, so let's go deeper.
All right, so let's, and you got the videos.
You can watch it and then shoot a question later.
So if you really wanna get confused,
in foreign countries, NDAs do get rid of statutory bars.
So the reason why is that there are no statutory bars
in foreign countries.
So the way it works is that there's an absolute
non-disclosure requirement.
But if there's an NDA between certain individuals,
not like a big conference, that's not really an NDA.
That's like, that's different.
But if there's a small group and you have an NDA in place,
that technically is supposed to be an exception
to disclosing in a foreign country.
But it does not work in the United States.
So in the United States, any publication,
any offer for sale or any public use
starts the one-year clock.
You have one year to file a patent.
If you don't, it's donated to the public.
Okay, so perhaps I should have clarified.
When I talked about IP development,
I was mostly story development.
And so there's no patents.
Yeah, so, okay.
So yeah, there would be no,
I mean, if someone started talking about an invention,
I'd cut it off, but that's not.
The way I would do it then, if this were my group, you see how I run my groups here. I don't let people just kind of start talking about their inventions. I cut them off.
Or if they're going to talk about a trademark, I say, think seriously before you tell me that thing, because there's other people here. I know them, I like them, but I don't know what they do on the side.
So, with that being the case, I would try to control it. I like the idea of an NDA. NDAs are great. It stops people from taking the general idea. I would just make sure your NDA is clear.
I would have some language in there that says, during our time together, there will be disclosures of storylines that are provided by certain individuals.
This NDA is intended to cover those storylines. Under this NDA, you're not allowed to take any of those storylines and write a book on that same subject matter.
I would make it very clear in the NDA. Make it customized to your group. And that should give you a little more freedom. But in copyright law, again, the second that you write something, you have protection, whether you file the copyright application or not.
The reason why we filed a copyright application is, well, now we have federal rights, which means we're guaranteed statutory damages, at least $500 per infringement.
So, does that help, Jill? Yeah? Good.
Helene, you're up, my friend.
So, if I invent something and use it in public, I have a year to file a provisional patent or something.
Because I create stuff, slap stuff together, walk around with it, and I thought one day I might patent it, but now I'm here and I guess I can't.
Well, again, it depends because there's an exception to public use, right?
The exception to public use is, does anybody here remember the exception to public use? I'll be really impressed, Larissa. Larissa, you're in every meeting with me, you know, of course you know it.
All right, Larissa, what is it? Go ahead.
Okay, so let's hope I get this right, because, guys, I do a lot of things.
How you let them use it? Like if people are, you're testing it out.
That's correct. That's right. It's called experimental use, and that's exactly right, Larissa. Very good.
So, if I just experiment on myself, I'm not selling it to anybody, I'm not giving it to anybody, I'm just using it myself.
That's an exception?
The experimental use exception to public use, technically, yes. Just be careful, because if you are, quote unquote, experimenting on it for three years, riding back and forth to work, that's not experimental use.
Like that's using the bicycle, right? So you create a bicycle, and you're taking like, you know, a few months of testing it to tweak it, to modify things, you can argue, well, that's testing, it's experimental use.
But really, I mean, really, the experimental use thing is, it's really focused on third party use, not so much your own, right, because it's called public use.
Now, arguably, if I'm using it in the public, then the public's going to see it, so therefore, it should be considered, quote unquote, public use.
So for that reason, I would just make sure it's a limited time, and that, you know, you're getting data, you're analyzing it.
It's not like, oh, for the last two and a half years, I've been riding this bicycle that nobody has ever seen to work in the way it's supposed to be used. That's not experimental use.
So the old saying for a patent world is, use it or lose it. That's really it.
So either you're going to keep it internal for a trade secret, or you're going to file a patent application and own it outright, one of the two.
But you can't dabble. I have some clients, I have one client in particular, very well known, large company, competes with ActiveCampaign and with others.
And they have certain things that they do internally on the back end, right?
So it's kind of like a central office customer premise deal where they have software on the back end, people use their software platforms, but they never access the code, like ever, like never, ever.
And so if they never access the code, like we had a call last week, and they're saying, hey, we think we need to file these patents on these areas, and I said, why?
I said, I realized that's the opposite of what every lawyer in the world would say.
But I'm kind of asking myself, why?
exactly do you want to file a patent on something
that you can essentially own forever?
If nobody ever is going to see the code,
nobody interacts with it, it's on a single server,
there's limited access, why not keep it as a trade secret
and have it potentially last forever?
Because the second that you file a patent application
on something, it becomes public domain.
Meaning that it's published after 18 months of filing.
A year and a half after filing, the public
is going to see your secret sauce.
So that's why Coca-Cola never filed a patent.
Because by keeping it secret, nobody
could ever use their formula.
Now, if you know as a fact that when
you bring your product forward or your service forward,
people are going to be able to reverse engineer it
and do it themselves, that's when you need a patent.
Because then the second you sell it,
you know somebody is going to break the thing open,
figure out how it works, make it themselves, you need a patent.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So that's kind of how that breaks down.
All right, let me check and see if anybody else
has any other questions before I cover one other topic.
Anybody got a question?
I'm just going to put out there to everybody, guys.
You can hop into the challenge anytime,
into the Facebook group.
Send me a DM if you're not in yet.
You can't go VIP.
I don't know, that's up to Peter.
But this stuff, it's great refresher.
And the atmosphere is great.
We'd love to have you in so they can see.
You know how important this group is
in the very different industries and everything we represent.
And so you coming to the challenge
is just really priceless to us.
Just being there, talking in the chat, whatever.
We love you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, that was really good, Larissa.
It's true.
I mean, I've seen a number of you stop by.
And you guys, what you offer to people
while they're asking questions, it's amazing.
It shows that this is truly a community.
It's not just a bunch of people trying to make a ton of money.
It's a strong community.
When I see a Joe show up, or Jody, or even Holly and others,
they just, Helene, you've shown up too.
You just pop up and you're like, somebody
type something in your chat.
And you're like, well, no, that's actually not
how it works.
This is how it works.
And then they go, who the heck are you?
Like, how do you know what that means?
Oh, I was in the challenge last time.
And now they're going, I guess this thing does really
work because these people understand these concepts now.
And so it makes their businesses better.
Actually, which reminds me, tomorrow is Thursday, right?
Tomorrow's Thursday?
Yeah.
So tomorrow is Thursday.
So if any of you are available, Jill,
I don't know if you're available to stop by.
Maybe around 7.30, around then, if you're available.
7.30 Pacific or Eastern?
Eastern.
7.30 Eastern, yeah.
If you're available, or Jody, if you're available, or Bonnie,
and obviously, Helene, if you're available, or Holly,
if anybody is available, would love
to have some people talk about what you've
learned in the protection corridor
and have you applied it yourself.
I think that is.
And then the other part is just to say
that you haven't seen an offer.
Because the offer that I'm dropping tomorrow,
we have never done.
That's a legal, done-for-you offer.
That's what people have been waiting for.
So my hope is that a lot of people
will engage in that so they get on the right,
they get on a solid foundation.
And then they take off from there.
Yeah, Larissa, go ahead.
I don't know if you answered this.
I saw Jody ask, and I did hear you because I was listening,
that you're going to let the protection portal people know
their version of the offer.
But she asked, is there a way to get in line quickly
for the audit for the people here
who know they want to take advantage of that?
Who asked that question?
Jody?
I think it was Jody.
Yeah.
Yes.
So here's the deal.
Those who are in the protection portal
always get first dibs at everything.
That's just the way it works out.
So yeah.
So the law firm opens on November 21, right?
My last day is next week, Friday.
And we open for business the 21st.
Even though the firm's already open,
I'm just not doing legal work from it.
And so by all means, when the offer is dropped for all of you,
you guys always get first dibs because you're
the foundational members.
So yeah, you guys will be first.
You're not going to end up being like 20th.
So we'll start digging in right away, OK?
So I'm finalizing that deal because I can do it.
two ways. One is I can do the IP audit with the trademark search and application, or I can do the
IP audit alone. I'm trying to figure out which one you guys will like the most. I know if I package
it together, people tend to like packages. And then at the same time, we're also coming up to
renewals. For some of you that have been in since the beginning, we're coming up for renewals,
but I don't want to be renewing people at the $29.95. I want them to be discounted if they're
the original people, the original protectors, the OPs. So I have a discounted rate for the OPs.
I'll tell you who actually made out like a bandit. Do you guys remember when I put up an offer for
24 hours for lifetime membership? There were a few people who took that. Man, my wife and I
were kind of talking. There were like five people who grabbed it immediately. That was smart. That
was smart because now they're locked in forever. And all the features, all the details, they get it
all. So I was actually talking to her today. And I think it was, I think it was, I think Umstead
took it. And then obviously Karen Hudson, she's like, she grabs things right away. But I'm thinking
of, I'm thinking of doing something similar. I'll let you guys know about it shortly. Okay.
So we're trying to put it all together and make sure that you guys have the best offer possible
that's going to make sure that you guys continue to grow. So, and you guys have come a long way. I
don't know if you realize it, but the questions that you're asking, these are not like, is that
a trademark issue? Is it a copyright issue? Like, no, is that experimental use? And could that
possibly result in dilution of a trademark? And if it is dilution, like, can I do this? I'm like,
oh my gosh, like you guys are asking questions of like graduate law students. Let's put it
upper level law students. So, which is good. That means your businesses should be thriving. So that's
what we want. So, all right. And with that, I think we're going to close unless somebody has
another question. Obviously you can email things, you can publish things. Oh, thank you, Bonnie.
You're awesome. Well, you guys are amazing. I mean, honestly, you, I don't even consider you
guys students. I consider you all teachers, honestly, because each one of you is training
other groups. And so I feel like it's a teacher training teachers, you know, and so we're just
transforming the industry. So people are not so afraid of IP anymore. And yeah, so that's,
that's important to me. So.