I'm going to turn it over to Amy.
Hey Amy!
Hey how are you doing?
Good how are you?
I'm good.
Anybody else on yet?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
I made it on time.
I missed everybody.
We didn't have a Zoom call last week.
We did the week before but not the week before that.
I'm trying to remember how many times we've...
I'm trying to remember how many times we've had Zoom calls.
I'm trying to remember how many weeks we've missed recently.
I've been in so many conferences.
Would you believe I'm in another conference?
Some people won't be on this call.
It's also tonight.
I'm trying to remember how many times we've had Zoom calls.
It's ending tomorrow morning.
Tonight is the last night.
We'll have one more session tomorrow morning.
It's being recorded.
I can watch it after this.
I can't do it again.
I'm trying to remember how many times we've had Zoom calls.
I'm sure there will be times in the future I'll be doing it.
We didn't do it last week.
Anyway.
How is work going?
With your designs and sending that collection?
I got everything submitted at the last moment.
It's a few miles away.
He drove me up and we parked right by the cell tower.
I could upload these big files.
We got it in.
I haven't got another assignment yet.
I'm going to talk on the phone and go over what I need to do next time.
That's great.
We were there for about two hours.
It's crazy.
The files are huge.
The designs have to be 20 inches on the smallest side.
I have to layer them up in Photoshop.
They are massive.
There has to be a better way to do this.
I see why people work in a coffee shop now.
There were so many people pulling on the Internet.
I'm not sure how fast the Internet is.
It's been a while since I worked in a coffee shop.
I don't remember.
I used to do it more
when the last time I did that.
I used to do it more
when I worked as a consultant.
When I worked at FedEx,
sometimes I would work remotely.
I would go to a coffee shop.
I'm trying to remember how fast the Internet was.
I'm glad you all live near the Zod Towers.
You can get it done faster.
The more there is a will,
there is a way.
Next time that happens,
you all need to do a picnic.
Two of you in the truck.
It's quiet.
We are uninterrupted.
That's right.
He is going to get to the point
where he is going to ask,
do you have any files you need to upload?
He will be ready for a break.
Especially since he is working from home again.
Can we get out of here?
Is it going good?
It's going really well.
He goes next door to the apartment.
He has his little space to get away and work.
They shut down his office this week.
They split him up again.
Hey Irene,
how are you doing?
How are you doing?
Hi, guys. How are you?
Hey, good to see you.
Good to see you.
Everybody have a great holiday?
Yeah.
In spite of our limitations.
Yes, I know. Of course, we didn't run into.
We didn't run into any meaning like.
I know.
Yep.
Self-imposed ones that families make better than that.
Yeah.
My brother and sister in law,
they weren't here because this is not the year to all get together.
This year it's all get together for Christmas.
And Thanksgiving is with the in-laws.
So, but my sister ended up.
We ended up just scheduling our Thanksgiving for the next day,
which enabled my sister and her family to come.
But at Christmas we'll all be together.
Yeah.
It's a lot on the day.
And everyone does it at their in-laws though.
But anyway, so we didn't run into any limitations.
Did y'all.
Some people abroad.
No, we don't. No, no, we're all.
We're all in town. I'm the one who travels now.
So they're all in town and all of their,
all of their in-laws are in town, which is really nice.
Yeah.
And.
Well, one of them is abroad.
They're missionaries overseas.
And then.
Yeah.
So anyway, but yeah,
it's very weird for my family because they're used to me being at
every family function.
And so now that I'm the one traveling.
I don't know if Alice is going to be.
I don't know.
So Linda Ordway, you know, in the group.
But those plans changed.
And so I, which meant I got to have Thanksgiving here with my parents.
Oh, one family.
That's good.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
So just checking the time.
Does anyone have anything? I'm trying to see what time it is.
Yeah.
Okay.
Does anyone have anything that they wanted to, any question or.
I don't know anything that's been going on that the Lord's been
talking to you about.
Even going through.
You know what?
I actually was just thinking about a conversation.
I just listened to the session five.
About decision-making. I just, just listen to it.
Yeah.
I think we burden ourselves with trying to make the so-called right
decision instead of focusing on just the whole process and having
peace.
And I remember I haven't followed through.
I haven't done anything with it,
but talking about like moving from one church to another. And I thought.
It's good. Now that have knowing that it makes so much sense.
Like we get so.
So much paralysis because you focus on.
You know,
you're not worrying about how you make this decision.
What's going to be outcome and rather than focus on the process.
And as long as you do it.
With that.
You know, in line with.
You're in a prompting with God.
Then that's all that matters. And whatever decision we make this,
I mean, you're going to have his grace. And so that's such a good feeling.
Yes, it is. Yeah.
Yeah.
So another way to make decisions, which I've never talked about,
or another.
Factor in making decisions that I've never talked about.
Is is to just kind of.
To, to sit back and I've actually just recently learned this.
From someone I did.
I did some sessions with a trauma counselor a couple of weeks ago,
I guess.
And so trauma isn't just like one particular event that's happened.
That's just horrible. And everyone just think,
and the whole world recognizes, Oh my word, that's trauma.
You know, trauma can just be,
it is just anything that just kind of settles in us that can,
that can create.
That can be triggered.
You know, just kind of this trauma and this, this,
this desire that we have to kind of.
Self-preserve.
And so,
so don't think that I've like had a horrible experience or something
somewhere.
But it's just these beliefs that I've had that developed from certain
things that happened or certain things that were said or whatever.
And then I just constantly looked for affirmations after that and kind of feel the world around
And, and sometimes it can just be one event.
it.
Yes.
So anyway, that's my point.
And like, I just wanted to explain the trauma really quick that it's not like as just, it's
not like didn't have to be rape or physical abuse or something like that in order to actually
be trauma.
Our body categorizes it the same as if someone's been raped or someone's been whatever.
So point is, so I was doing a session with trauma counselor and she was having me do
something where it's basically doing, it's kind of taking someone into a place of rest
sort of, and from that place, you just watch, you just let your brain just go.
You start thinking about something and then you just, and then you just kind of feed on
it and you just let your brain go, but you don't.
And you, and the important thing, and here's the, here's the key ingredient and everything
is you don't judge whatever it is that you're seeing, whatever it is that, that your brain
is reminding you of, it's reminding you of a memory.
So you just take that memory.
You think, okay, what do I think about this?
Oh my goodness.
Well, I'm feeling, I'm feeling panicked.
Like, okay, that's okay.
Just sit there.
Just recognize the fact.
Why are you panicked?
Well, I'm panicked because I'm fearful.
Okay.
Just sit there with the fear and let yourself be okay.
Let yourself be okay being afraid.
So in other words, it's teaching us the whole point of the exercise is to teach us how to
stop judging ourselves and condemning ourselves because as we do that, we have a difficult
time actually coming to a conclusion and figuring, figuring our way out of something.
So if we don't judge it, we more readily are able to, to just observe what's going
on and our brain will naturally, our brain meaning like what it is that we really believe
and what it is that we really know will eventually over time, walk us out of there because we
stop judging it, condemning it, squishing it down, stifling it, or allowing it to overcome
us out of fear or whatever.
So, um, and anyway, that's another, that's another thing.
I've never applied it quite well.
I have applied it towards trauma, but just not as extensive and as deep as she took me.
I've done it on myself through things that I've learned and this was long before I ever
started the rest intensive, so I haven't ever talked about it, but, um, you, it's very important
that, uh, like I said, the key ingredient in it is to not judge, not to judge what it
is that we're observing about what it is that we think or we feel.
My point is that eventually brings clarity because if we stop all of the emotions, if
we stop all of the thought patterns of why I always tend to go in this direction and
why I need to think about someone's feelings and well, what happened last time and if we,
if we just, if we just watch ourselves kind of observe our memories and watch how we feel
about him and allow ourselves to just, to just sit there with it and then to acknowledge
it and kind of, um, allow it to have a voice, which is what we talked about, you know, with
the decisions about letting your soul have its voice and then listening to the spirit
talk and letting the spirit have its voice.
So it's letting your soul with all of its fear, all of its anxiety or all of its stress
or whatever, in a particular moment when you're remembering something or when you're thinking
about what decision you should or shouldn't make, because, oh my goodness, what could
or couldn't happen is to just sit with that.
And then without judgment, just observe it.
And eventually, because we don't have the, because we're acknowledging the emotions and
we're allowing ourselves to just be, we can eventually know what it is that we really
believe and what it is we really want to do.
And really what the decision that we want to make is.
In other words, we come to kind of know ourselves because we're allowing all parts of ourselves
to have it say, and then we figure out, okay, which part of myself, because it's all trying
to protect me, all of it is, which part of myself do I want to acknowledge and thank
it for, you know, so to speak for trying to protect me while, which direction do I, uh,
what does it, what emotion do and, um, beliefs do I actually want to act on, which can be
very different than the fear that I just wanted to acknowledge and let it have its say.
You know, telling, Hey, look, I understand you're trying to protect me and you're here
and I accept you and you're fine.
I don't, I don't condemn you or anything.
I don't condemn that part of myself.
It's okay.
Then though, is that the, is that the, is it fear on which I want to base my decision
or is it on these other parts of me that actually want to make a different decision?
Which direction do I want my.
life to go? How do I want to handle this difficult relationship with so and so? You know, should or
shouldn't I go to Thanksgiving dinner, you know, whatever. So that's another way of making decisions
like what you said, allowing each of our parts to have their voice, the soul and the spirit and
making sure that we don't judge. It's when we judge and we're not, and judge meaning, you know,
we, what I meant by judge was when we actually condense something, then we can't really figure
out what it is that we actually really want deep down and what we already know we want to do.
We just keep trying to talk ourselves out of and think, well, no, maybe that's not the right
decision. Then we get all very confused when, if we stop and think about it, we really do already
know what it is we want to do. What is the wisest decision, especially when you let the soul have
it say, and then listen to what, where your spirit has peace, where your spirit is indicating that
that your faith has built to by that point. So anyway, yeah, that's really good. I'm glad
that that was helpful. That's actually really interesting. I never thought to give
feelings, especially uncomfortable. It's like a voice almost treated as though that's another
person that's speaking and just acknowledging because sometimes it's so much easier to try
and like wish away a feeling, but yet you'll make the decision. And actually probably what's driving
your decision is the fear or this, the fear you have, or perhaps you decide not to make a decision
in the direction of for, against, or the right decision. So just having that,
give it a voice and actually acknowledging because the very thing you're, you're not
acknowledging is actually what's going to drive your behavior. So you might as well bring in the
forefront, acknowledge its presence, you know? Yes. And I noticed that my feelings quiet down
once they've been heard once they felt that I acknowledged them and realized their importance.
In other words, the fact that they were there because I felt that it was needed to protect me,
then they can call, they can calm down. They're just like, okay, I've been seen, I've been heard,
you know, I'm here and you don't, you don't, you don't ignore me, squelch me,
condemn me and think that I'm bad and I'm wrong. And all of that. It's just like,
and it, it, I've noticed that it really quiets them down. If they're just, if, if I allow those
parts of me to, to voice themselves. As you said that, I think I just had felt,
you said something in my mind, your ability to be able to technology and acknowledge and
acknowledge that. I think I can imagine being able to do that and how that make me less judgmental
towards others. When I see sometimes, sometimes I find I'm judgmental about things that perhaps I
don't like about myself. Those are the very things triggers that things that people do,
like a very things that I hate Obama. And it's like, I'll look, yeah, you do that,
but I'm kind of projecting that hate on someone else. And if I'm able to do that for myself,
the chances are I'm able to do that with other people and give them grace.
Yes. Yeah. That's, that's perfect. Yeah. That's, that's exactly right. Our,
our thoughts about other people are a mirror, our mirror thoughts of ourselves. What it is that we
judge about other people is what it is that we're judging about ourselves that we can't,
that we're struggling so hard to meet that particular standard in our own lives. And,
and maybe have already done it, but we're worked hard. We worked hard of our own effort to get
there. And so therefore, if we see somebody else who's not working hard, in other words,
strife and all of that, well, then we condemn them. So yeah, our, our judgments of others
reveal the standards, the very harsh standards to which we hold ourselves. So yeah, it's near.
Yeah. Oh, great. Thank you so much. You're welcome.
Does anyone have anything else they were thinking about?
Oh, let me see why y'all are thinking. I can think something been talking people about.
Oh my goodness. What have I been talking about this week? People.
I just have a thought. Yeah. I'm kind of trying to, I, I'm kind of still, I have to say, I'm
rather early in the process of working through the sessions, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to
think. I just have a thought. Yeah. I'm kind of trying to, I, I'm kind of still, I have to say,
I'm rather early in the process of working through the sessions. But one of the things I was wondering,
like I,
I've actually realized one of the things
as I was thinking about rest,
I realized I needed to learn more about rest
because as somebody who leans more towards
being like a type A personality,
I want things done, I want things done.
I want to be in control.
And I try to figure out how to explain the whole thing
of saying like, what's the concept of being a rest?
And I just try, I'm kind of grappling with that whole idea
and trying to figure out how over time,
one of the things I began to realize,
and it's sort of like tying into what you're saying,
I'm kind of all over the place.
Please bear with me, corraling my thoughts.
You're fine.
So one of the things I began to realize
because of my tendency to want to have things happen
right away, what sometimes happens is that
I am in the process of trying to hurry through everything.
I think I'm so caught up with trying to do the thing
that I kind of missed the point
to be able to take breathers to actually exhale.
Like there's this book I came across.
Yesterday I was looking,
trying to figure out how to explain the cost,
the concept of rest, working at rest.
It's almost like contradictory to be resting and working.
Like the two stones seem as though they go together.
So I thought I'll look up something
and I saw something about the hurried life.
And it was kind of interesting to see the perspective
about this person talking about
how we're all kind of going through this process
of we want to get results right away.
And how, because everything,
we have so much efficiency in our lives.
We have so many shortcuts.
We have so many hacks and things like that over time.
It's hard to be in the place
where you just take things one thing at a time
and not feel as though,
like if you're doing 20 things,
why you're really efficient
versus coming from the place you're saying
to be in a place where you don't feel hurried and take time.
And I like like what this,
I forget who the author was saying about,
Jesus started his ministry at age 30.
And how like in three years he got so much done.
So for him to be able to got so much done,
if he was like, oh, I've got to do this.
I've got to do that.
And he's trying to multitask.
He'd probably not be able to be that effective.
And in his ministry,
I know he was saying that one of the things
that was really beautiful,
in spite of what she was doing,
he was teaching his disciples how to take it easy.
Like, I remember like, where were they?
There was a lot of people at a church,
like there's a gathering.
And then this one woman,
the woman with a blood issue touches his garment.
And then he says, somebody touched me.
And the disciples are like, so many people touched you.
There's so many people around.
And just to have that level,
to figure out how to strike the balance,
to have that level of awareness
and being aware of what's happening around you,
but yet still get to do,
like for me, that's such a difficult thing.
Like I find right now, I don't like to talk on the phone.
I think because I don't talk to people on the phone,
I end up living in my own sort of like cubicle or something.
I'm over here, but I'm thinking about,
I need to call somebody.
I'm like, oh, that's going to take too much.
I'm going to be on the phone for the hour.
So just be able to be able to do what you want to do,
be efficient, but yet at the same time,
take time to actually really have conversations with people.
I haven't figured how to do that for myself
because I feel to some degree, I feel I live a hurried life.
And I'm kind of like half of my life is gone.
I only have X amount of time,
but yet like to kind of silence that part of me
to be realizing, oh my gosh,
I'm in like midlife, no much time left.
How can I not keep that in mind to get,
be efficient and make sure in the end of my life,
hopefully when I take my last breath,
I've done whatever this race was, I've run the race well,
but yet at the same time,
take time to really talk to people and engage.
And I struggle with how to strike that balance.
Yeah, first of all, hey, Lori, good to see you.
And baby Felicity.
So, okay, so I'll, I believe that you're wondering,
trying to determine like what rest is exactly, right?
Is that correct?
Okay, so rest is a good point.
So rest is not inactivity.
Rest is actually, rest is a place.
And in that place, it's understanding that we don't strive.
It's understanding that our energy source
that fuels everything that we do
comes from our relationship with God,
not from an amount of.
effort that we're exerting to try to create something. So if you, this might make a lot
more sense when you watch, I think it's the next session, which is, I think it's the next one,
either that or it's the one after that. The one about two trees.
I saw the one part that was one God and I think the phone was two trees. I saw those headings.
Okay, yeah. So the one two, two down from the one you're on is the one about two trees. So that'll
make a little more sense. Well, it'll make a lot more sense in the, in the fact that it's the
difference between operating, understand, you know, the operating according to the tree of life,
meaning out of relationship with the Lord, we're unified with the Lord and he through spirit,
his spirit joined with our spirit is, is the source of all life is, is spirit. It's his spirit
that gives life to our spirit. And then together we, we can do things. We can fuel things
effortlessly without, without an exerting our own energy. So doing it from the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil is where we believe that no God's abandoned me. I'm alone. I'm
separated from him. I'm isolated. And so because I'm abandoned alone and isolated, then I'm,
then how do I please the Lord? How do I do a good job? How do I provide for myself,
how to protect myself? Cause God did all those things. When I understood I was unified with him,
he was my provision. He was my protection. He identified me. He, he was made me feel loved.
He made me feel liked, made me feel comforted, all of that. So doing it, you know, according
to the tree of the knowledge, good and evil. If we operate like that, it's where we literally
know the difference between good and evil. It's the knowledge of good and evil. In other words,
instead of just operating out of life and relationship, we're operating according to
a list of do's and don'ts such and such as good, such and such as good sessions. That's good. I
will do these things. I will exert effort and meet these standards. I will get such and such a job
in order to make X amount of money. I have to do follow these formulas and these strategies and
I have to execute, execute, execute. I have to, I have to operate according to this strategy,
et cetera. And I need to make sure, so I don't hurt myself. So I don't bring bad things in my
life. I need to not do these things. I need to not do drugs. I need to not get, I don't know,
maybe it's sent for some people. It would be things like I need to not be lazy. In other words,
I need to not, not have a job. I need to, you know, just whatever, whatever we've determined
is good. And we determined as evil. And so we're constantly having to analyze everything. Okay.
What's good. What's evil. What? Okay. I need to exert a whole bunch of effort to make sure that
I try to do all these good things and try to remember to do all these good things and try to
remember and be careful of and watch out for all of these evil things that I can just fall into,
you know, and it's a lot of work and we're having to drum all of that up. But if we operate
according to our relationship with the Lord, if we're just, if we're unified with him, if we,
if we, cause we're, we're unified with him. But my, my point is if we're conscious of the fact
that we're unified with him and we exert, um, we interact with the world from this place,
which is from a place of rest. So the place of rest means in God, unified with God, one with
God, that's the place of rest. There's this stillness. There's this peace. There's this
resting. There's this sitting. We no longer have to exert, um, uh, energy, so to speak from this
place. And, um, and then we can do everything from here and being in relationship with him,
God, we ought, we act and look just like him and God's always good. So we no longer have to
try to be good and try to memorize all these things that are good and memorize all these
things are evil so that we can do the good and avoid the evil. It's all effortless. We just act
like God. We just look like God. We do it, do everything that, you know, like Jesus said, he
said, um, I don't do anything. I don't see the father doing. We just, whatever we see the father
doing, whatever we see him saying, whatever he guides us to say, you know, whatever, just wherever
our decisions, um, uh, are revealing a sense of peace. We just operate like that. It's effortless.
We're not no longer having to strive and figure things out. And okay, Lord, I'm going to please
you. I promise. I'm going to get the test right this time. I'm going to do it. I promise you,
you know, but we've turned away from the Lord to do it. And so that's the difference, um, between
operating from strife and operating according to the tree of the knowledge of the evil, where we're
We think we have to provide for and protect ourselves, as opposed to just resting in our identity in God and believing that he's going to be our provision, he's going to be our protection, he identifies us.
That's the difference. So, it's not inactivity. In fact, you'll find either even people in this group that talk about the fact that once they realize what it meant to shift into rest, and then they shifted into it and then they operate like that,
they get so much more done with less exertion. They get so much more done in their day, and they're less tired. And they're like, how did I get all of this stuff done? Because they stopped doing it like this, thinking it was all up to them,
and thinking that they had to do all of the good and avoid all of the evil because God was going to come and he was going to be a hard task master.
And, and they just had to be ready. You know, they had to be ready to so that they get a good mark on their scorecard.
And God's like, no, I just want you to operate out of relationship with me. And so when we do that, all of a sudden we find that the things that used to be a burden to do over here are now a joy.
So there are people, for instance, there are various clients that I've worked with, and then, you know, in this group and outside of this group that found work to be a drudgery until they begin to operate out of rest.
They came to me because they're like, Ashley, I don't even know that I want to do this anymore. I don't like meaning like they didn't know if they want to do that business anymore. I don't know if I want it for my work anymore. I don't know if I want it for my business.
And then when they started to operate out of rest, all of a sudden they rediscovered why they loved what it is that they chose to do. Like, I like it now because it's no longer a burden. It's no longer a weight.
They said, I can just do it effortlessly. I can do it out of who it is that I am, who it is that God made me to be. And now it's fun. Now I actually enjoy what I've chosen to do for a living. And yes, I want to keep it. There are others that have changed what they do.
Because of going through the rest intensive and they realized, you know what, I like this, but I don't like these things. So I'm going to get rid of these things and I'm just going to do this. Or they're like, I don't like any of what it is that I'm doing. I'm going to scrap it and do this other thing.
And they finally had the courage to follow the thing that they've always loved to do because they began to realize that when we operate in rest, it brings clarity. We suddenly discover, oh, this is who I am. This is what I like to do. We rediscover our love for things.
Because now that, now that we, now that our actions, and this is my point, now that our actions and our activity no longer bear the responsibility and the burden of creating a result, because instead, God's going to create the result. God's going to provide for and protect us. We're not operating by striving where we have to make it happen.
Now that our activities no longer have to bear the burden and the weight and the responsibility of creating a result, it's now fun. Because it's not, because the result doesn't rely on my effort. It relies on the Lord.
So it's a huge, huge shift.
Huge.
But you will find that you are either going to continue to love this stuff that you do, and you're going to love to do it more because now it doesn't bear it. You don't go to work thinking, oh my word, all the weight and the responsibility of making the paycheck is on me.
No, no, no. I've got that. I want you to just operate out of your spirit and enjoy living, enjoy being, enjoy being, enjoy, you know, existing.
And, and then you'll find that you enjoy your business activities, or you'll discover, oh, this actually doesn't resonate with who it is that God made me to be. And you will go on a journey with the Lord to discover, oh my word, there's this other thing, actually, that is in my heart that I'd like to, that my spirit would like to operate out of.
So, I now have the courage to start pursuing that.
That's so interesting because I sometimes just hearing you talk, I'm hearing when you talk about the Tree of Life, I'm hearing Old Covenant, and even though we're under the New Covenant, we're still in a lot of ways operating by default on the Old Covenant.
It's being very legalistic and all that. And I love what you say about the latter part, because if I'm doing that, this is the part I struggle. I try to do too many things, and I couldn't imagine what it'd be like to just focus on doing and let God worry about the outcomes.
Because for me, it's almost like what a child does. The child plays, the child doesn't worry about crayons, the child doesn't try to create something like Picasso.
else's joy because that's what child's compelled feeling wanting to do.
And what a wonderful way to be able to operate.
Yeah.
So, like I said, it's not inactivity and it doesn't mean that we don't have jobs.
It means that what a job it it's just that what a job means changes in our mind.
It's a way for our spirit to, to bring heaven into earth.
And we enjoy that.
We enjoy being ourselves.
Our issue is we put ourselves aside thinking that we couldn't afford to be
ourselves because we had to do these things.
We had to create a results.
Exactly.
But the Lord actually wants to operate out of who it is that we are.
And then he's going to create the, he's going to create the result.
He has a purpose for that and the world will miss it.
If, if we don't operate like that.
So thank you.
You're welcome.
Hey, Carrie.
How are you?
Hey, I'm doing good.
It's so good to be on here.
I'm not pregnant.
I know.
I don't know what you look like.
Not pregnant.
Remember, I think you were pregnant.
Were you pregnant in April?
Yeah, you were.
Yeah.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to count like how many months that is back from when you
Yeah.
Like six months pregnant in April.
How are you?
Oh, wow.
I don't remember being that far along.
He's like four months old already.
I can't, I can't believe it.
And we're, we're just now at the place to where he, like, he's getting to bed and
I'm like, I can have one year without nursing.
So like, I'm not going to miss this opportunity.
I'm glad you did.
We, we obviously didn't meet last week for Thanksgiving, but we met the week
before, but we didn't the week before because I had a conference.
I've been having lots of conferences lately.
I was telling them I have a conference tonight, but I'm missing it in order to
do this because I was just like, I can't say one more time.
Are you in, are you, are you still in Houston or where are you at by now?
No, I am in Arlington now.
You're in Arlington.
Okay.
I've been here since Thanksgiving.
I was in Houston for three weeks.
So yeah.
You're still traveling, like kind of wherever you're to and fro and yeah.
Wow.
I am.
So I guess I haven't caught y'all up on that.
Let's see.
Um, so total, um, like if you count since August, I was in Baton Rouge,
Little Rock, then back to Dallas, then Missouri, Kansas city, Denver, back to
Dallas, back to Denver, well, technically, technically, Colorado, and then, um, and
then back to Dallas.
And then what I do, I think I went to Houston, then I went back up to Dallas.
Then I went to Memphis, Nashville, uh, Greensboro, North Carolina, Asheville,
North Carolina, Moravian Falls, North Carolina, then Ohio, and I almost got to
see Steph and I almost got to see, um, Cheryl, uh, in the end, um, you know,
Cheryl Reese in the end, I went to Washington DC on election day and then
Atlanta, then I was in Houston for three weeks.
And now I'm here in Dallas and I don't know where I'm going to be next.
I have some people here who want me to do, um, uh, you want me to
talk to them about rest intensive.
So I figured that I'd stay in town to at least be in town and in person for that.
Um, I don't know if I'll leave town for a little bit after that or
before Christmas or, or what, so I don't know.
I often don't know what I'm going to do.
You know, things will just, things will come up like the day of, or the day
before, and then I go do it, but this is where I am today.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
So, um, what time is it?
Does anyone have anything else they wanted to discuss?
I think, yeah, so I was trying to think of something earlier if no one else has.
Well, I, I totally didn't even come on here with thinking of anything, but I mean,
I figured there'd be more people on if you don't have anything else to talk about
or if anything does, if anyone else has anything, um, how do you parent out of
the spirit?
Because I am really struggling.
Oh my word.
Yeah.
I mean, up until, up until like Eric is almost three and up until now, you know,
it's been pretty smooth sailing.
I mean, you know, there's no sleep and, you know, things like that, but there's
never been like that bucking of like clashing between us.
And like, I'm just like, how in the world, how in the world are we going to do this?
Because it's.
bringing up a lot of things in me with how I was raised
and how I was trained, a lot of not good things.
And it is really challenging for me to try
and figure out how to set boundaries or discipline him
without parenting out of fear
because of how I was disciplined and parented growing up.
And I can see that out of the fear,
there's just a lot of stuff that can go wrong.
So any advice is very welcomed.
Well, part of that, you know, it's just,
it's when we're in fear, it's just, it's a habit.
It's all that we know is how we were raised.
I mean, it's all that we know.
And so as far as like bucking and all of that,
oh, well, one thing I do want to mention,
you know, the more that we focus on something,
the more, and the more attention that we give to it,
the more energy that we give to it
and the bigger that it becomes.
So the more that we try not to be like our mom,
the more that we try not to be like our dad,
the more we actually become them.
So just FYI for everybody, you know?
So in other words, the more, you know, case in point rest,
the more we let go of that,
the less likely we are to follow through on all of that.
And the more likely that we're going to be following through
on the new things that we've learned
as opposed to in fear, we revert back.
We fall back on, okay, what's habit?
What's really deep down in there
as opposed to operating on new thoughts and ideas
of what it is that we now believe,
how it is that we've changed as people
since we were children and since we believe certain things.
So anyway, for that, for what it's worth.
As far as like bucking and things like that.
So I don't know, you know, all,
I don't know an exact scenario.
So I'm just going to throw some things out there.
It's real, what it is that he's going through is,
it's going to sound funny at first.
What he's going through is really, really good
because it is exerting, he's trying to discover
who he is that's different than mom
and that's different than dad.
Now, yeah, he went through that a bit with the twos,
but in the threes, you know, he's going to, you know,
be doing that some more as well.
So he's discovering, okay, who is it that I am?
What is it that I want?
And so that's what he's discovering.
He's discovering, you know what?
I actually realized that I want something
very different from mom and I want to do it
and I'm going to do it.
And so he's trying to learn who he is and how to exert it
and how to, and which is something that we were created
to do in a world by the Lord is to put
our own individual spirit stamp on the world.
So what we do with children is we teach them
how to govern that because they don't know
how to govern that.
So that's what the process is, is it's not like, okay,
you know, like maybe, maybe I'm just guessing
by how you're talking that maybe you were raised
is very traditional and like, okay, no, no, no,
here's this, according to the tree of knowledge
of good and evil.
So all of these things that we're not going to do
these things and there's all these good things
and we're going to avoid that or how all these good things
that we're going to do these things,
all these bad things, we're not going to do those things.
And there's just this standard and there's this list
and there's this, whatever.
Do, I will say that kids that, so bear in mind though,
when I'm saying all of this, that we're teaching them
how to govern themselves, how to handle this new strength
that they don't know what to do with.
It's like a child's been given a hammer
and they don't know what to do with.
So it's just like kind of give them,
if they're given a way in order to exert it
as opposed to just stifling it.
And no, I'm not talking about necessarily in a moment.
I'm talking about, because sometimes you do
to just kind of like have to stop it in a moment.
They can't run out in front of a car.
They need to obey you when you tell them to stop.
There's certain things where it's kind of like,
hey, look, you're going to hurt yourself.
And God does that with us as well.
It's like, hey, you're going to do that.
You're about to hurt yourself.
That's an absolute no.
And we're going to just stop this right here.
Then we're going to learn the lesson and learn why not.
So there is an element of that,
but there's also this aspect of like just in general
in the parenting is to understand,
and this works very good with strong-willed children as well
because strong-willed children are the same
as other children.
They're just exerting a lot more of it
that you have to contend with,
but you have to deal with it generally speaking
in the same way.
You just have to deal with it in a much more intense way
with a strong-willed child.
And so it's just kind of understanding,
okay, what is coming out of them is a good thing,
but they don't know how to direct it.
So it's coming out nasty.
It's coming out as being rebellious and as attacking.
And to me, or to someone else,
and they just need to understand,
How do you, how can you have your own way in certain, in your play or in your whatever,
whatever. So many children are just told to know all the time, just know all the time.
And so if you can think of ways that they can, that he can take that sense of identity
and what it is that he wants to do, and that that thing can be fostered.
They're not there over time. They're not as upset when they can't have something.
So if that, if that makes sense, as opposed. Yeah. Anyway. And then another thing to mention
is it's not like the child grows up in like all of this gray area and it's just kind of like,
Oh, my worry. Well, let's just kind of learn all of this. If they're it,
children feel very secure with black and white. This is the way that it always is.
So in the end over time, gray area can be introduced because they, because when they're
young, they don't. And teachers learn this when they're teaching children, they learn that that
children have to be taught how to logically formulate a thought in order to come to a
conclusion. So when they're very young, sometimes just black and white works best. So it's directing,
it's making very, it's providing structure so that, which also really, really helps. Oh,
my word helps tremendously with attitude is, is providing structure where this is always this way.
And it's just the way that it is at the table. This is what we always do. No exceptions. And
it is extremely difficult for a parent, extremely difficult for a parent to be consistent. That's
one of the most difficult things for parents is to be consistent because we live in a world where
things are not consistent. So to create a consistency in our home for children, when
we're tired, when it is 10 o'clock at night, you know, when I've been doing this all day long,
and here's the 3000th time, you know, it can be very frustrating. And that consistency is huge
in order to create that block, this black and white boundaries that will tamper down attitude a
lot. I'm not saying that he has an attitude, but if he does have an attitude, you know,
tamper down attitude a lot because it provides provide safety. And attitude a lot of times,
sometimes is is just acting out out of fear. And, okay, I'm going to give you an example from
personal experience. Now this, this kid was not three. I don't know how old he was. I was 12,
babysitting for kids. And there was this one kid who was maybe Oh, you know what, he may have been
three, he was three or four. And he would he would do wild things. He would literally climb
a wall, floor to ceiling bookcase, you know, and I'm 12. I'm not 36. I'm 12. And I've got like four
little kids, one of them in diapers. And I don't I think she could walk anyway. But here's the here's
the third one. I'm like, Oh, my word, what am I going to do with this kid? Well, he would give
me so much trouble. It wasn't just that he would just he would just constantly be rebellious.
He would say no to whatever it is that I said to do or whatever. So I just tried my best to be
consistent. And this was at 12 years old, just same thing every single time, same thing, you know,
no, you can never get away with that. And eventually, I don't remember how long it had
been that I was babysitting and both his parents and me knew of the struggles that I was having
with him. And so we all thought he didn't like me. Well, one day his his mom and came to pick me up.
And she told me that she said, Hey, by the way, we let the kids know at dinner that you were coming
to babysit them. And she said, Zachary surprised us all and said, Oh, Ashley's coming. I love
Ashley. We're going. It was because I reminded him of his mother. So when his mother wasn't there,
here was someone else that he knew what he could always expect from. He always pushed it. He always
pushed it. He always tried to break those boundaries and test them. You know, but often
children who are testing boundaries, they're just trying to understand where their security is.
How how much can I trust on this thing to never move? What can I possibly throw at it?
You know, it's like child keeps throwing something at something else trying to see,
OK, is it going to break now? Is it going to break now? Is it going to break now?
And it's exhausting because we call it rebellion. And really, they're trying to prove how safe their
world can be. And they're they can because there's something that's made them feel concerned or
afraid that something won't won't be safe for them. So I know that that was probably just a
smattering of things. I hope I didn't confuse you. Those were just all kinds.
the things that came to mind that, um, that I personally dealt with, uh, with
children, um, and, um, that I just know based on how it is that we are as, as
adults and how that starts as children.
And so to understand that all of the things in him are all very, very good.
He just doesn't know how to.
He doesn't understand what's going on and why he feels like
this and what to do with it.
So it's teaching them, they're not trying to be bad there.
They just don't know what else to do there.
It's, it's out of, it's out of fear.
It's out of confusion.
It's out of, well, this feels right.
So I'm going to do it.
And they just have to learn.
Well, no, no, no, no.
Don't do it like that, but you can do it like this.
So I hope that that's helpful.
I know that's a lot of stuff.
No, that's helpful.
I feel like it's kind of, I mean, what you said about the consistency and about
how, when it feels like, when it seems like rebellion and it's really just them
like trying to figure out how safe they are, that really clicks with me.
Um, because that, that just makes a lot of sense.
And I can see that that would, it's definitely the scenarios that are playing
out, especially with Dominic and figuring out what is acceptable there and what's
not like with how he interacts with Dominic and stuff, trying to figure out
if it's, you know, safe or not to jump on him, which it's like some of the stuff
it's like, Oh my word, it's a miracle that Dominic is still alive, but we, uh,
in a couple of years, they'll be great.
And they'll get along.
They'll get along well.
And Dominic can, can hopefully give some back to him.
That's right.
Stand up.
I know exactly.
So I wanted you to see if I missed something.
I think we were getting some chats.
So Steph mentions that age three is harder than age two, but y'all, I keep
hearing that, but you'll learn to see so much growth in you both this year.
And, um, Irene was saying, um, uh, let's see about what about sibling
rivalry is your older one misbehaving more since the baby was born?
Oh yeah.
I had this issue with my oldest son after his brother was born.
Yeah.
And then you were just responding.
Yeah.
I noticed it spending so much time with baby.
Yeah.
I know that if they're not, if they're used to, because their security came from
always knowing that they had the attention.
So now they have to learn that they're always safe.
They're always secure.
Mom's always there.
It it's all okay.
Mom's not going to leave me.
I'm not abandoned just because I'm not being paid attention to.
I mean, even though I'm not being paid attention to, and it's a transition,
they have learned to associate safety with attention.
And so now they're just having to learn and that they're, that they're
safe without the attention.
They're learning to having to learn to trust the, the presence and the you
know, and the love and the fact that mom's not going to be there and that
I'm not abandoned even without that touch point of attention is just shifting that.
So we all have to do that.
I mean, you have, we have, you know, have to learn to trust
your husband when he is away.
You know, your trust, you know, when you're when your mom, when you can't
get ahold of her or your best friend, when she hasn't answered your texts for
three days, you know, or whatever, you just like, okay, well, did I do something?
I don't know.
I'm still struggling with that.
You know, at 36, I'm just like, Ashley, just, it's okay.
They haven't abandoned you.
They don't not love you now, you know?
So I struggle with that.
In fact, there was a, there was a friend.
I was struggling with that today.
I'm sorry.
My sister about it.
I'm like, I know this is ridiculous.
36 years old.
And I still wonder fully aware of it.
It happens.
Like, I know what I'm doing.
I know what I'm doing, but it's having, and I told her this, I said, I'm having
to learn that it's that, that to not associate touch points and non-touch
points with abandonment or attention or not attention, but abandonment or affection.
I've got to learn to disassociate those things and learn to trust that when someone
says something that it's actually true, you know, and, and whatever, it's part
of a part of honoring somebody else by trusting them, you know?
Yeah.
That, that makes sense.
Cause I was thinking today, I was like, I know that, I know that children act
out when they don't have attention and I'm very cautious of giving attention.
I'm like, literally.
I cannot spend all day just sitting on like this.
Something has got to change because I have Dominic.
I have other things I need to do.
I'm like, I love him and I spent time with him, but legit.
Insane.
This is crazy.
Yeah.
No, no, that hurts me though, that it does still, he still has to be the one to realize
that I'm still, I still love and care for him, even though I can't.
spend every waking hour with him,
every sleeping hour with him too sometimes, so.
Yeah, yeah.
Another idea, I don't know if this,
how this will work, you could just try it,
would be when he's wanting your attention,
that you give him something to do for you.
So in other words, it creates a connection
because he's wanting to be connected
as opposed to, you know,
mommy's doing this, can you go play?
Or go watch a movie or whatever.
If it's something, hey, will you do this for me?
And come back and show me what you did.
And maybe that will help kind of like start to,
or you could do it but be right here,
but you know, I don't know.
Some way in which he feels that there is a purpose
Right.
that's still connected to you
as opposed to he just can't be with you.
I don't know if that's helpful
to kind of like start to wean him off.
Yeah, no, that's very helpful because,
and I can tell that he's very, he loves to help.
Like whenever I'm doing anything,
he's always right there and he wants to help.
And I think if I could make a more conscious effort
of doing that, I can see that being very beneficial.
So no, that was very good too.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I think it might be, you know,
as we all are, you know, just a loss of,
fear of a loss of connection.
Or he helps with Dominique.
Oh, you are the big brother.
I used to do that with my niece, my niece, Cora.
Oh my word.
So much attention.
All day, all, every moment.
And she couldn't play by herself.
And you would think that an oldest child could.
I did, but she just absolutely couldn't.
So when Kayla came along, oh my word,
it was just, it was wild.
And so what I used to do when I would babysit them
is I would give her things to do to help me with Kayla,
which I know that you already do.
I'm just saying, you know, I'm just mentioning this,
is, you know, oh, well, let's do this now.
And let's do that.
Oh my word, you know, you're such a big help.
You know, go get his diaper.
Let's change, let's change Kayla together.
Let's get her bottle together.
Will you get this, the bottle for me?
And I will get the milk.
I don't know if that's better.
And then it made her kind of feel,
and then it helps the jealousy with her and Kayla.
Now they're big buds.
So for whatever that's worth, sometimes it works.
I could see that.
Yeah, I could see that resonating
with the type of personality that Eric has anyway, so far.
That's cute, that's cute.
So let's see, anything else that anybody wanted to cover?
I keep checking,
because otherwise we just keep,
I just enjoy visiting.
Oh, wow, it's 8.57.
And then time passes.
But before we jump off,
was there anything else that anybody
just needed to cover tonight?
Hey, Carrie, I just wanted to say thank you
for asking those questions
because I have been struggling with some of the same,
I don't know, it's not really the same thing,
but Felicity has become super clingy.
She's seven months now, almost, yeah, seven months now.
And she has suddenly discovered
that mama is not always there all the time.
And I cannot leave a room without her crying.
I can't do anything without her pulling on me,
or even sometimes she seems to panic if I leave the room.
And it seems like she's starting to realize
that, oh my goodness, mama has the ability to leave.
So I know it's not the same thing,
but it kind of, I don't know,
I really resonated with what you were saying
because sometimes I'm not sure how to communicate
with a seven-month-old that even if I'm not there,
I'm there, yeah.
So I don't know, I just wanted to mention that.
Yeah, I know, it does, it brings comfort
because to me, it doesn't matter the age,
it's just, it just all, it helps to just kind of know
and acknowledge, oh, this is what's going on.
Yeah.
And we still deal with it at 36.
I don't want to declare that over myself.
I'm just saying, I'm still working through this.
I've grown so much.
I was so embarrassed today.
I was like, Ashley, this is ridiculous.
Like, and then with that other part of me
that I had to not be judgmental about,
like what I was talking about earlier,
Irene was just like, yes, but I'm scared.
I needed to have it safe, and my sister let me have my safe
so that I countered it.
But I know this is true. And anyway, so now I'm very, I'm a lot better. I was crying this afternoon. I'm so much better now.
Let's see if there's anything else I can say.
Guess that's it. Well, it's good to see all of y'all. I'm so glad y'all could jump on. It was so good to see y'all's faces. I've been missing everybody.
So I guess I will see y'all next Thursday. I don't know what day that is. Or is that the 11th? Maybe.
What is it? Oh, is it the 10th? Okay, thank you. Irene keeps me on my schedule.
Anyway, love all of y'all. Good to see y'all. Thank you.