Hey, there.
Hey, Ashley.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can.
I apologize, Terry.
I see actually that it was on my calendar.
But I never saw the notification.
And so totally fine.
I'm so sorry.
I mean, you know, if I make myself available.
You know, it means that I'm available. So I, I'm,
I just had no idea that someone had scheduled and I I'm sorry.
No, no, that's totally fine.
I know it was last minute and I was like,
I'm just going to try and do it this way. And I was like, you know,
if it doesn't work, I I'll just shoot you a message.
So it sounds like you're having a crazy.
Yeah.
I am.
Yeah.
There's just a lot to, to unpack.
I'm I'm good.
It's kind of one of those things where like in a nutshell,
it's like you realize you have so much freedom, it's terrifying.
So it's you're so good that it's kind of freaky.
You know what I mean?
It's like, you know,
it's like you realize you have so much freedom that you,
you feel terrified.
And.
It's just been an interesting past couple of weeks. Honestly,
it was like, I think it was two weeks ago.
I was listening to one of your teachings.
I think it was about the two trees. Whoops.
I've lost my earbuds here.
It was about one of the two trees, one of those teachings.
And anyway,
I was listening to one of your teachings.
And it was about how free I actually am in life to make decisions.
And to not.
Basically.
I don't even know if this makes sense,
but to not hold God responsible to the outcome necessarily.
Like, I don't even know if that's the logically correct, but.
All of a sudden it just dawned on me.
Like how much freedom I have in life and how many decisions I have
to make.
And how much of my life has been.
Decided or how much of my life has been framed up by.
Making the choices that I thought were the right choices to make.
And all of a sudden I realized like that,
that that isn't even a thing anymore.
And I feel like.
I don't even know what the meaning is to life anymore.
Like, I don't even know if that makes sense, but like,
especially like with marriage and.
All of a sudden I just realized like.
I.
Got married because I was afraid.
That it was.
That not getting married was the wrong thing to do.
So I just got married because I was afraid that if I don't get married,
then that's the wrong thing to do.
And then, you know,
We had kids because I was afraid that, you know,
it's like every decision up until now has been made out of fear.
Not because of something I genuinely wanted to do.
And now all of a sudden it's like, Oh my goodness. Like why,
why did I do the things I did? You know, like why, what,
what is the point of marriage? I know this sounds horrible.
Like we're, we're married and have kids and I'm just like,
All of a sudden it's like, what is the point of everything?
You know?
Yeah.
And, and, you know, like even with marriage, it's like,
How do I go on from here? Realizing.
That the choices that I've made to like the,
the choice to get married.
It wasn't like, you know,
It obviously wasn't made out of the right decision.
And I just feel like.
It's invalid.
I don't even know how to explain it.
I don't know.
Even makes sense.
Yeah.
Like it just, the, the, the system that I used to.
To make life's decisions on up until this point.
It all of a sudden.
You know, you all of a sudden you realize you aren't held.
You aren't held to.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden it feels like another one of those carpets gets
pulled out from under my feet.
And I'm like, I don't even know how to explain it.
I don't even know how to explain it.
I don't know.
Even makes sense.
Yeah.
Like it just, the, the, the system that I use to.
To make life's decisions on up until this point.
It all of a sudden.
You know, you all of a sudden you realize you aren't held.
You aren't held to.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden it feels like another one of those carpets gets
pulled out from under me, you know, and I'm like, oh no, like.
Then what's the point of everything.
And I just feel like.
I feel like there's something that I'm missing.
Like there's something that I'm not.
Understanding or something. I don't know.
But.
It has been an intense struggle.
Especially in marriage, because it's like all of a sudden I realized.
That.
and based out of fear, and not because I had the free will to
choose, if that makes sense, or because I thought that I didn't
have the free will to choose.
Yeah, correct.
Well, that's kind of where I'm at.
Yeah, well, it's all really good thoughts. I always enjoy talking
to you. I love how you think and you really, you really come at
the root of the issue. And I think articulated extremely
well. So like you said, there's a lot to unpack, meaning there's
a lot that I can respond to, to give you, you know,
encouragement.
One thing about, you know, feeling like, oh, my word, I've
got so much freedom, you know, and it can sound, it can feel
terrifying. Oh, by the way, can you hear me? Okay.
I can hear you good.
Okay.
Maybe I can do that.
And so with with freedom, yes, we have a tremendous amount of
freedom in the Lord, but we grow into it. So we don't have to, we
don't have to worry like, and feel overwhelmed by the amount
of freedom as if we've been thrown into outer space. You
know, we're just like, oh, my word, there's no boundaries,
there's no structure, because we don't know how to manage
that. So like children, God leads us into more and more
freedom, and he's teaching us how to govern it. And until we
can govern and govern ourselves within it, and know how to how
to interact with life, and then how to actually, you know,
govern, well, then he's only going to expose us to as much as
we can, as much as he's growing us into at that moment. So just
like, you know, with the decisions, you know, you give a
child, you know, you just tell them when they're young, okay,
no, you're gonna wear these shoes. And then when they get a
little older, like, okay, you can wear these shoes, or these
shoes, you get them a choice. So they're still structure, but
they're you're introducing them to freedom and teaching them how
to make their own free will decisions in a protective
environment that does not where they can't harm themselves. So
and then you eventually get kind of like, Oh, my goodness,
you know, now we're at a store. Now you can pick out pick
between these five shoes and which ones you actually want mom
and dad to buy for you, you know, and then eventually you
just buy your own shoes, etc. So as far as we, we actually grow
into those things. And we don't have to worry that Oh, my
goodness, we're expected by God to just like, Oh, I can do
anything that I want. And he'll back me up on it. And we were
not thrown into that much freedom, even though we're born
to eventually operate in it. But he teaches us how to do it
safely. So so there is that. And so did that address what you're
specifically related? Yeah,
yes, very much. So that helps a lot. It makes you feel less like
I that makes me feel a lot less like, it's like when animals went
out of the cage, and they just kind of, you know, they just
kind of sit in their cage for a while, like shivering and like,
where am I gonna go? You know, and then yeah, no, that makes
that makes a lot of sense. So knowing that I can't, knowing
that God doesn't give me the amount of freedom that I can
harm myself with. Yeah, so then still, there are still things
that will do that will that will feel that, that, that will, that
will step out in that will make decisions on thinking, Okay, I
think that this is where my piece is that I think that this
is my heart's desire and the Lord's. And we get into it and
realize, wait a minute, something's not right here. You
know, I feel like God's correcting me or I feel that
God's, you know, doing whatever, well, he's just he
that's part of the part of the teaching process where he's
like, Okay, no, you thought that that's how it works. But that's
not exactly how it works. So let me gently show you sometimes
it's a little harder, you know, but let me show you that, you
know, it's actually wiser and more effective to make these the
decision this way, instead of the way you did it. So that is
where the Lord is. So it's not a free for all. So we still need
the Lord and he likes us to be vulnerable to him. He doesn't
want us to just go off and do our own thing. He gets that it's
a dance of a relationship. The whole point of life is a
relationship with the Lord and growing us and he's raising up
his own bride. He's adopted the man, the woman that he wants to
marry. And then he's married to her and now he and now he
continues to mature her as
her husband. So, he's raising, he's raising the desire of his own heart to be able to
interact with him, provide to exert, and by exert I don't mean like, you know, forcefully,
but to express her own free will in relationship with him, etc. And he's teaching her how to
know her own heart, and which is a heart that was birthed out of him, out of his essence,
out of his DNA. So, it really is good, but he's teaching her how to know herself so that
when she brings her own contribution, even though I'm talking about a her, I'm talking
about bride, you know, because it could be male too, it could be a man as well, but,
you know, then bring her own, her own contribution to the relationship, then she's teaching her
how to do that, as opposed to teaching her, or not teaching her, but telling her like
a master, you will say this, and you will do this, etc. Well, that's taking away her
free will, and God doesn't want to do that. God teaches us how to discover our own free
will so that we make it out of our own choice. So, it's very interesting how all of that
works. But anyway, so does that answer that part of it? Yeah, definitely. As far as like,
you know, like the purpose of life, I touched on it earlier. Sorry, I'm trying to figure
out what we're doing here. Sorry, it's the police. They need us to get over for some
reason. Oh, I think that they're catching speed speeders. Maybe that's what that is.
Um, so as far as, you know, the purpose of life, so purpose of life is growing image
is what I just described, you know, growing and maturing in our relationship with the
Lord. And because he's raising up his own bride that can bring her own contribution
to the marriage. And then so that the two of them together in their interaction, create
a feedback loop, where each is giving to the other and each is each is giving to the other
freely, and each is receiving from the other freely. And, and a part of that process is,
okay, well, what are we going to do together? So we know that we're safe with each other.
You know, so now what are we going to do together? Well, you know, it's bride and bridegroom.
Well, we're going to govern the earth, we're going to govern creation, we're going to,
we're going to bring it into alignment with the invisible, so that it so that the visible
looks like the invisible. So in other words, it's, we're working together to learn how to make
the invisible seen. And so that's, that's the purpose of life we are in all of the things that
all of the events that we go through, our ways that it in ways that we're interacting with
creation, are us interacting with creation kind of similarly to the way that God interacts with us.
And the fact that he enjoys us, it, you know, we eat for the fun of it. You know, yeah, there's,
there's fuel involved as well. But a good chunk of eating is just in the reason that God created
it, because he said, Hey, you don't have to eat, you can live strictly off the word. So then what's
the point of eating? Well, because we enjoy it, it's fun. So we can interact with creation,
we can interact with events like, oh, well, you know, baby showers, and, and church fellowship,
and having families, whether it's your own family, you know, that you came from, or the
your family that you're creating. It's, it's just, there's an aspect of enjoyment that we shouldn't
make. So we should, we should understand is part of what God intended it to be,
is just, you know, just just interaction and enjoyment and pleasure.
For, so I don't want to ever devalue our interaction with creation, as if the only, our only
is if our only interaction with it, in a lofty spiritual sense is supposed to be that we govern
it and tell it what to do, we provide leadership or whatever. Well, no, we have a relationship with
it. And the fact that we enjoy it, and it enjoys us, etc. But when it needs leadership, we provide
the leadership. And then as far as that, and then the same thing, everything that I just described
goes for marriage, you know, as an aspect of creation, as an aspect of, because that is
something that the two of y'all birthed, the two of you birthed a marriage. It's a thing that y'all
came into agreement about and created.
And so you're still in the process of creating
what that looks like,
what y'all's specific unique marriage looks like
and what it brings to the world.
Because it, your marriage together in oneness
is meant to overcome the world
and to govern it in a specific way,
has a specific sound, frequency, whatever that creation,
your children, your house, your family,
both of your families, your community, whatever,
responds to what y'all create your marriage to be.
And it will, can receive more of the Lord from it.
It can see what Christ and the bride look like
by looking at y'all, that kind of thing.
And then there was something else I was gonna say.
Oh yeah, it's related to, you know,
oh, well, I made the decision to get married out of fear.
So I'm now looking back on it.
Well, you know, I feel like that's kind of going
into the next thing we were gonna talk about.
So before I talk about that,
did what I say make sense about like the purpose of life?
Where did it sound to you?
Definitely.
Okay, did you?
No, that totally makes sense.
Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Okay, all right.
And let's see, because what I wanna make sure
that we all understand is two things.
And I keep repeating this, I guess, I don't mean to,
but is to know that what it is that we're experiencing
on this earth and the mindset by which we've approached it
all of this time is that marriage and issues with parents
or, you know, getting a job and, you know,
being promoted in position after position
and getting money and moving houses
and creating a life for our children
and creating blah, blah, blah.
What we became so focused on that world that we thought,
oh, this is all that there is.
And God just helps us do it so that the way that we live
looks nice and it looks godly and whatever.
Well, it's actually much more than that.
We're meant to govern the thing, not be governed by it.
We're not subjected to the events that happen to us.
And we're not just creating events just in order
to hit milestones and go through life
so that someone at the end can look back and say,
oh, well, you know what, they live good.
So therefore, you know, God's pleased.
You know, they made history,
they made other people's lives easier.
They made other people laugh, whatever.
No, it's more than that.
It's we're actually making the invisible visible
by how we live.
And we're actually, all of the struggles,
all of the pain is that we go through
and how we deal with that is us overcoming
and bringing creation, freeing creation.
It's bringing creation into freedom
so that it's no longer enslaved to pain.
It's no longer enslaved to death.
It's no longer enslaved to, you know, sin.
And so we give that.
But in explaining that that's actually the purpose,
I don't ever want to devalue the fact
that life is to be enjoyed and life can be fun
and life can be simple.
And God takes great delight in the fact
that we take great delight in the simplest things
such as making popcorn and binge watching Netflix
on a Friday night, you know,
or waking up in the morning and deciding,
you know what, it's Saturday morning
and we're going to have a special morning.
We're going to do pancakes and we're going to do,
I mean, they're just simple little things
and we don't want to think that, okay, well,
I'm overcoming creation.
Something like that should be,
should, is, is there's no point to it.
It's frivolous.
Like, you know, that's where, yeah.
Including the afties, all this vein in there, I mean.
Yes, exactly.
Like this despondent, you know, perspective suddenly
of, oh my goodness, you know, none of it matters.
No, it does.
It's just the perspective,
our perspective of it needs to change.
Oh, I wonder.
Sorry, just a second.
Let me check and see if I was supposed
to have taken that exit.
I hope not.
So just a second, love easy.
Sure.
If so, I'll just start around.
Cause that's weird.
Cause I thought that I 10 went all the way through.
Let me check.
Oh, wait a minute.
I'm sorry.
It's just taking a second.
Oh no.
Maybe, maybe I am going.
the right way. 3.1 miles to where? Where does it want me to go? I don't know.
Sorry, I don't know what it was wanting me to do. If it was wanting me to go a different direction
and I didn't obey. I don't know. We're just going to go this way because it's going to be just fine.
Okay. Let's see here. Sorry, what were we talking about? I'm trying to remember too.
I'm sorry. Oh, well, yeah, just that everything being saying that they're part of the
well, yeah, it just that yeah, we we do we do govern and we are leaders but at the same time
we have a relationship with creation just like God has a relationship with us and and therefore
we're meant to enjoy it and those things are meant to serve us as sons of God where we
where by enjoying those like those examples of things that I mentioned we are we're taking
pleasure in God and the fact that he has fun the fact that he's beautiful the fact that
you know I don't know whatever and those things aren't aren't full of frivolous so anyway my
point is I want to make sure that I don't make it sound like oh well everything's just supposed
to be so spiritual of that that the the other things sound frivolous in comparison they're not
that's actually part of these the the point of creation is the enjoyment of all those things
it's not frivolous it's not vain so there's that so did you have any questions about that before
I talked about the the whole the marriage and other decisions and being wasted I think no I
think that that makes sense to me yeah okay and then so as far as the um uh the thing about
making having made decisions whether it be marriage or or other or having children or
whatever that's kind of like well wait a minute if it were where we like look at the past and we
start second guessing things the God uses all of that and that's actually part of our journey part
of our journey is having walked through making decisions from a place of fear but it doesn't
mean that that was a that that was wasted or that that was frivolous or that that didn't
mean anything or doesn't have value or or whatever uh why sorry okay good that's not
trying to figure out where I am and I think I'm good um and so God God used all this like I said
it's part of our part of our part of our story part of our part of our journey part of the path
that we walked and um and it doesn't mean that it was a bad or wrong decision because
the the point isn't so much what it is that we do and the actions that we take it's the
it's the source behind why we took those actions and God just wants to deal with the fear
so um not uh yeah so does that make sense he's like I don't want you to do it out of fear
believing that you know you're abandoned and all of that so we don't have to like look back in our
life and think oh my goodness I've made wrong decisions that are that equate to what we call
waste because I made it out of fear so if I made it out of fear then apparently you know it's just
you know it was is wasted or it's wrong or it's uh uh that's not how God intended it or
or whatever um and uh sorry there was something I was going to say
something I was going to say about that I mean something more I was going to say about that
and uh like about man a lot I lost it while you were talking I was like okay yeah yeah that's
what you know I know what I can I can see it and then now I'm trying to say it and I and I've
forgotten what it is that I kept in mind but anyway what are your thoughts so far yeah no it makes a
lot of sense
what you've been saying, it totally makes sense.
I don't know, it's just, especially in marriage,
the past, I don't know, well, the past couple of months,
I feel like it's coming to a head.
But I feel like, you know, all the areas that I've shifted
in my relationship with the Lord,
and like just the complete, you know,
the complete makeover that has happened in my life,
I feel like that is trying to,
like, I feel like that's trying to infiltrate my marriage
or manifest in my marriage.
Like, I feel like it's trying to shift in my marriage,
and it's just an extremely messy process,
if that even makes sense.
You know, like when you shift into business,
it's kind of like, you know,
things kind of fall by the wayside.
Maybe you, you know, some things kind of,
you feel like you're neglecting them or whatever,
and then, you know, it's kind of a bumpy route
until you kind of are all of a sudden sailing in,
you know, the freeway of rest,
or however you want to explain it, you know.
But I feel like in marriage,
like, we keep trying to shift gears,
and we just keep selling out.
Because I know that, like, how our marriage has been,
like, there's really good seasons,
and then it only goes so long until there's, like,
extreme conflict, or we come up against something,
and it just seems, like, exhausting.
Like, absolutely exhausting.
And I don't know, like,
I'm kind of at my wit's end, honestly,
and I don't know if, like,
I don't know if this is awkward for you or not,
but I even, like, I have said before
that I feel like I would make
a better prostitute than a wife.
Like, I don't even know if that makes sense,
but I feel like, even with intimacy,
like, I feel where there's anything, like,
you know, sexual involved,
I feel like if I could just somehow
remove the relationship part of it, then it's fine.
Like, something about the deep, intimate relationship
part of marriage completely freaks me out,
like, completely freaks me out.
And I don't know why.
I do not understand what is going on,
but there's something inside of me
that just bucks up against, like, when Josh,
and, you know, it's not always just with, you know, sex,
but it's like, even if he just wants to, you know,
give me a hug or a kiss,
and it's completely unsexual with it,
there's just something inside of me
that when he goes to show me love or affection, like,
it just, I don't know,
something inside of me bucks against it,
and it just makes me angry.
But I don't want it to be that way.
I mean, I want to be able to accept his love,
but somehow the deep, vulnerable parts of marriage
just absolutely freak me out and terrify me.
And I feel like I would, you know,
I would be such a better wife.
I'd be able to cope so much better
if there wouldn't be so much relationship.
And I don't, I know that, I know that I want a relationship.
I know that that's what I want,
but there's something that just, I don't know what it is,
that just rises up inside of me
that just feels extremely uncomfortable
and extremely just terrified
at the thought of actual, like,
deep, intimate relationship with someone.
Yeah, so I'm assuming,
are you talking about a physical intimacy
or emotional intimacy, regardless of whether-
All of it, honestly, all of it, yeah.
Just any intimacy.
Now, I don't know-
I would say that, I would say,
I would say, like, physical intimacy would be much,
like, it would be much harder.
You know, I can talk to Josh about anything, you know,
and I know that he understands
and he's very loving and caring.
I feel like it's much easier for me to bear my soul to him,
you know, emotionally than it is physically.
Yeah.
Well, a couple of thoughts.
Is it that you are not comfortable in your own skin,
so to speak, that there's something about your own sexuality
that you do not feel comfortable with?
Or, and therefore it's hard to be vulnerable and revealing,
and I'm not even necessarily talking about,
oh, well, you know, I like this about my body or that about,
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about your sexuality,
which is deeper than, which is more than skin deep.
Or is it,
or is it that
there's something about,
you don't believe that you will be actually,
there's something that is concerned
that you're going to be rejected,
or, here's another one,
you don't trust that he's actually rejecting you.
receiving you and therefore it feels fake and or there's something that some
doubt inside of you that makes you feel like, oh, wait a minute, you know,
that I feel that even though he wants physical intimacy, that the emotional
intimacy and connectedness that comes with it, I don't feel safe with him
because I do not feel that I'm actually being received. I feel that it's a bit
hypocritical.
Yeah, I definitely feel the last one.
The last one. Okay. Yeah, I mean, go ahead.
I was just gonna say the first one. I mean, it's definitely not I mean, I
don't struggle with like insecurities or body image or anything like that. I
mean, even after a baby, like, I'm just, I don't know. I'm just so over that.
Honestly, like, I just don't even I don't even go down that route. I mean,
as far as like, understanding my sexuality, like, I have no idea what
that means. But as far as like, you know, not feeling, you know, comfortable in
my own skin, I don't think no, I would say I definitely don't have that
problem.
Yeah. And so when I'm talking about your own, your own sexuality, I'm not
talking necessarily about your, your, you know, how it is that you feel about
your body. Like I said, in your physically, you know, that sexual
intimacy is, or is that person's sexuality is deeper than their body?
It's in. So how do I explain this? Oh, how would I explain this? Where some
and I know what I'm trying to say, but I thought that I'm wondering how on
earth you articulate that in words? And where you feel that? Okay, so here's an
example. Do you feel that you can experiment with him? Do you feel
comfortable experimenting, trying new things, doing whatever? Are you, you
know, can you initiate? Okay, so that is kind of an example of not feeling
once on sexuality. So it's deeper than actually a person's body and whether or
not they feel like, you know, oh, well, you know, I can go through the act. This
is like, there's a, the experimentation of playfulness, the the initiation, that
kind of thing comes from someone that is comfortable on their sexuality. So
that's why I was asking, because I'm just trying to help you kind of, you
know, think of some think of some new thoughts that maybe you hadn't thought
of before that you can explore. So there's that. And then as far as like,
you're not feeling like you're actually perceived. And do it's, it's possible
that that's going back to, you know, your your father, you know, because
again, Josh is a man. And so this idea that feeling that you that words are
said, and there are certain interactions that you've had with like your father
or brother. Yeah, that with your father, where you felt you couldn't trust that
it is what he said, because his actions proved different.
Is Nick? Okay.
Yeah, sorry. I'm just trying to get his pamper on. Okay, we're good.
So anyway, if someone is used to is, is not used to being able to trust what
someone else says, like someone else says all of the right things or
whatever. But their actions don't make you feel safe, then you can project that
on to your husband. Because that's what you're used to.
Yeah. So I was wondering if maybe any of that triggered any, I don't know, any
memories or any thoughts of, and I'm not talking about physically with your
father, obviously, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about, you know,
where words don't match action. So in other words, that you knew deep down
that, okay, he, the right thing to do is to trust what he said. And then you
that you knew deep down that, okay, he, the right things are being said, even
the right things are being done. But you don't, you feel that deep down when it
really matters, that it, there was not follow through. And that you discovered
that, okay, no, you know, that actually was just lip service. And that was
something that they knew that they were supposed to say or do. And they believed
it truly about themselves. But when it comes right down to acting on it, they
they, you discovered, no, they actually believe very differently. And they
don't even catch it. They
even catch that they believe differently than the way that they're talking in the way that they're
acting um so therefore you just learn oh well you know i don't can't feel safe with them so when
your husband's trying to show love to you you don't actually feel safe with them you're like
no he's doing and saying all the right things but i don't trust it i mean anyway g what are your
yeah thoughts on all of that it makes a lot of sense i mean i was any relationship you know
there have there there have been like hurts and stuff and you know words said but it's
not to the point where i feel like i haven't let it go you know it's not like it's not to
the point where i feel like you know i feel so deeply wounded or whatever that it would be
affecting me and i just i mean it has been such a huge struggle i just don't know what to do anymore
or i mean i just honestly like i don't get it i i mean josh is a wonderful husband and he has never
used me the way i mean he has been you know he has been an outstanding husband and that's why i
can't understand but then i just feel like oh well you know i'm just a problem because i just can't
get it you know like i just can't get it but um it makes a lot of sense what you were saying
towards the end where i feel like when he goes to show love i kind of freeze up because i'm like
don't know like it's just manipulation to get what he wants yes yeah correct that um
that you can't that you can't truly expect and trust that you're being received that you don't
feel safe like emotionally safe or like it's safe when it really really really counts um like where
there is no safety net and there's no going back um you know internally there's no going back that
kind of a thing and so it and so it i don't i don't know about about josh but i saw i'm making
i'm i'm making guesses here um about what is likely true it's likely that that from your
description that the issue is not josh at all and that you are not a problem that that i know for
sure no you're not a problem and you're not the problem it's there's something that has happened
there are things that have happened that where you were trying to grow up learning or knowing
the truth and there were lies that either you inherited through your dna you know through past
previous ancestors they believed and whatever that you inherited whatever because we all have
those you know we've heard from other people but and then other things that you've experienced
maybe in your relationship with your dad or with or with i don't know men at church or with your
uncles your grandfathers or i don't know somebody maybe even maybe even with your with your mother
it doesn't have to be men but whatever it is where you realize you know what you can't
i can only trust people to a particular degree because when it really counts they don't mean
what they say they're not actually there there's no there's no safety net and so you learned
you you you learned what you thought that life of the way that life really was
so you're not trying to be mean to yourself you're not trying to be mean to anybody else
you learn this is how life is and but because that's not how life is it's not working and it's
creating strife but it makes sense why you believed what you did because what it was that was said or
done to you and the fact that there was not the proper emotional follow-through was not right
that it was done to you you weren't intended to live through that and experienced that
um and to have taken on that belief that was never intended by god
um
i'm sorry no no i know don't worry
so as far as like what to do about it um one of the things that you can do is because other people
can't give us what we need meaning like uh now how do i how do i work with this we
now how do i how do i work with this we uh i'm not trying to to make other people sound like villains
I'm saying that, you know, we can't expect others to give us something that God intends
to be the one to give us, that's my point.
And so if there are things that you're wanting, oh, how do I read this, okay, so let me, let
me just, let me back up and word it like this and come at it from this direction, maybe
it'll make more sense faster, that you, because when people say things, you don't, you, you
want to believe it and you can believe it to a certain extent, but you believe it to
an extent where you can still backtrack if you need to.
So because you, so in other words, people may not be able to help you in the way that
we would like other people to help us through something like this, where it's like, okay,
for example, for example, if you're, if you're just like, if it was a different situation,
then it would be something like, I don't know.
Okay.
Like if your mother always said a particular phrase when you were growing up and it meant
something that, that, that constantly triggered you, then your, then, and Josh was always
saying that, well, then you could work through something like that and say, okay, hey, you
know, Josh, could you help me with this?
Because I understand that when you're saying that same phrase that my mother used, she
meant it this way.
And I know that that's not how you mean it, but it still triggers me because I, I, and
so I'm asking if you would help me by not saying that because it's, because I have
associations with it.
So I'm asking you if you would help me in that.
So that's something that we can read.
That's an example of a situation in which we're going through something that someone
else can kind of help us walk through it by something that they do.
But with this, no matter what he says, and no matter what he does, you, you don't trust
it.
You see what I'm saying?
Right.
It's like, sorry, we can't be typically intimate anymore because it triggers you.
Yeah.
So it doesn't, yeah, exactly.
So in other words, this is a bit of a different situation.
And that's what I was trying to explain as I was showing you another, totally, I was
trying to compare it or contrast it with what it is.
I'm saying that it's not the situation.
It's a different one.
So my point is that you can be your own and here's, here's the freedom and here's the
hope for you.
You can be your own parent and you can give yourself what you were never given because
you're wanting it from others.
And Josh, I believe personally, Josh has it to give you, but you can't hear it and you
can't see it and you can't receive it.
So you have the power by God to give it to yourself.
You have the power to, you have the authority to be the parent to yourself that you always
wished you had, that talked kindly to you, that spoke things over you.
And that gives you permission to not believe what you used to believe and to believe
different, kind of like a blind child with blind faith that, Hey, if mommy says that
it must be true.
So your parent, your spirit is kind of like a parent to your soul.
And so, and it takes faith, you know, like the faith that you've had to step out again
when you stepped into rest in order to trust God.
So it's hard.
It was hard to do that.
It's hard to step out and feel that you can be emotionally vulnerable with Josh to that
extent, because it's the, it's the earthly equivalent of what you've walked through with
God.
And it's that hard.
So I don't want to, you know, I want to make sure that that's, that you understand saying
that I'm fully aware that even though I'm, I'm talking as if, Oh, well, this is really
simple.
It's simple.
It's not easy.
So I just want to make sure that that's very clearly stated.
I am fully aware.
This is not easy at all.
And so in the end, there's an amount, there's a tremendous
and just amount of risk and it's done internally.
Then the other thing is you can talk to Josh about this
and that's another part of the risk
that's very, very hard to step out on.
And that is actually telling him what the issue is.
If you feel like that's something,
like that's a step that you can start taking
because it's inviting him into the process with you
because you've committed yourself to each other.
Like the Lord, how the Lord says,
hey, you know, you can struggle with me
but I want you to struggle with me.
Don't turn your back on me and shut me out.
You know, you can be mad at me, you know
but I want you to be, I wanna do this with you.
It's the same kind of thing in a marriage
where you can invite someone into the process with you
and saying, hey, look, I am struggling in this area
and I am stepping out and choosing to believe
that I can, that I actually am being received by you
that I can trust, you know, trust you
and that you do mean what it is you say.
And you're acting in a particular way
be out of a pure heart and a pure desire
for me as opposed to being manipulated or whatever
but I'm bringing this, these lies in
from before I ever met you.
I'm bringing in these lies from, I don't know where
and I don't know where they came from
but I projected them onto you unintentionally
and I'm asking you as my husband
will you walk with me through this
because I'm choosing to believe that you
unlike previous people in my life are genuine
and that when you say something, you mean it
and when you act in a particular way, you mean it
and I'm gonna have to choose it
because I don't believe it right now.
And it's not because of anything you've done.
It's because of, you know, decades
of being with other people that I didn't feel safe with
and I don't know how to not see a person that way.
And I'm asking if you will be the person
that will help me finally stop seeing, you know
people like that because you
of all people are the person I don't want to see like that.
And I would say you have to word it like this
and I'm fully, fully, fully aware.
Trust me, Kerry.
I am fully aware that that is hard.
That is extremely hard.
And maybe y'all have the relationship where it's not so hard.
I would imagine that that is, would be a huge
huge, huge first step in making
in choosing to make oneself emotionally vulnerable
in exactly the way that you've tried,
you tried that your body
and that your spirit had tried so hard to protect you from.
It feels like stepping into the fire.
Now, maybe for you, y'all have a relationship
where it wouldn't be hard to have that conversation.
Most people I would talk to
would find that to be like the worst thing ever.
No, no, I don't feel like that at all.
I mean, that's wonderful.
Yeah, no, I mean, I feel like I could tell Josh
that I robbed a bank and he would say,
it's okay, honey, let's talk through it.
Like he would never, he is extremely understanding.
And we, I mean, there's nothing that we don't,
I mean, we bare our souls to each other.
Emotionally, I mean, it's hard.
I mean, it is very hard for me,
but it's not like, you know, I,
it's not like I don't do it.
Yeah, yeah.
But so, well, that's good
because then he could help you with it
because then he'd understand
because there's also a possibility that he,
unless y'all have already talked about this,
that he feels rejected
when that's not what you're trying to do,
but you're trying to protect yourself.
You're not trying to reject him.
So both is possible.
I'm not speaking this over it because I don't know,
but it's possible that both are trying to protect
yourselves from each other.
When, you know what I'm saying?
I like it.
Yeah.
And so anyway, the more open and vulnerable
that y'all are with each other,
it's that it's really, really hard.
But the more that you are,
the greater potential that you have
to overcome and to together
because you'll be stronger tackling it together
than either one of you is gonna be trying to do it
by themselves.
So you, in fact, it's not even double the effort.
It's at least triple, if not quadruple the effort.
By effort, I don't mean hard work.
I mean, the
power behind it is more than the sum of the two of y'all coming together and what y'all
commit to it, it actually at least triples, if not quadruples.
So that's wonderful that y'all build a relationship to the point where y'all can talk about that
kind of thing.
But anyway, what are your thoughts?
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And I guess, I mean, as I continue to just, as I continue to just step out in faith, like
the same way, you know, that I did in my relationship to the Lord and just trust Josh, and act,
I mean, just believe Josh, even though I don't trust him fully, you know, then the rest of
it will just all fall into play, you know, physically and everything else.
It'll just kind of all work itself out.
Yeah.
And, you know, doing it with him is the same process that you go through with your, with
the Lord, where you don't believe it, and you're not seeing evidence, and you don't
believe it.
So you have to choose it and have to act on it.
So in other words, okay, I'm choosing that such and such is true, because Josh tells
me that it's true.
And I'm not getting a check in my spirit that I shouldn't be believing him.
You know, because obviously, some people are in marriages where God's just like, Oh, no,
no, no, you know, I'm trying to protect you from this man, you know, don't do it, you
know.
So I, so I'm very aware that there are those situations, but if it's a situation which
you're not feeling and checking your spirit, you know, and obviously that this, you know,
you're just like, Oh, no, everything's fine, then making, then choosing, okay, if Josh
is saying that this is true, you know, Josh, you know, showing you my, my love for you,
if you tell me that this is true, I'm going to choose it, even though I don't believe
it yet.
And therefore, if I choose it, I'm going to choose, okay, if he says that it's that his,
you know, Josh, your word is good enough for me, I'm going to choose it.
And therefore, I'm going to frame up my world that that is that that is the reality in which
I live.
And even though I don't believe it yet, I'm going to choose that's a reality of the world
in which I live.
And therefore, if that's the reality, and those are the laws by which everything works,
what decisions would I make then?
What actions would I take, and then I start taking those actions, and I start making those
decisions.
And then when you start acting on it and deciding on it, and start doing it, then eventually
come to believe it, then eventually you begin to see proof of manifestation.
So it's, it's a step of faith, even with another human being, even though it's not God.
There's an element of this, especially if you're feeling this in your spirit, that it
is an act of faith towards God as well.
If you're feeling that, you know, from your spirit, if you feel like, you know, God is
God is saying, Hey, you know what, you need to trust Josh and whatever, there's an element
of stepping out and choosing and acting on it that is faith in God and faith in his word
as well.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I definitely feel like the Lord has been using Josh to, to show me in the
physical realm, what it is that God wants to do for me in the spiritual realm, if that
makes sense.
And I guess what I'm sorry, I said that I know that
I really have been feeling like the Lord has been using Josh in my life to show me, to
basically show me in the physical realm, how it is that God feels about me in the spiritual
realm.
I mean, you know what I mean?
Like, does that make sense?
Yeah.
Because I've never like, I mean, I've never been so loved as I have been since I've been
married.
I've never, I've never felt so like, unconditionally loved by a person in my whole entire life.
And, you know, but it always comes up to that place where it's just like, it comes to that
to a certain point, and then I start shutting down.
But I know, like, I just felt like it kind of came to head and I was like, Oh, like,
I know that this is the same thing that how it was in my relationship with the Lord.
I just didn't know how to navigate it without trying to make it without making my marriage
my salvation.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yes, it does.
Yeah.
And it's when you were talking about, you know, you're about the fact that, you know,
You know, you get to a certain extent and then you start shutting down that like you were talking about is a physical way in which you are walking out.
What, what, what it sounds like you might be walking out of how you might be interacting with the Lord, which is okay I believe that he loves me to a certain extent, then once we get to that.
Once we get to a particular boundary, we think, oh no, I can't possibly be that I can't, this can't possibly be real. He can't possibly love me to this extent he can't possibly love me this much, or I don't deserve it.
And, or this doesn't follow a principle that because this doesn't make sense. And there's no way that this is actually true. And so we shut down to protect ourselves from what we think we're doing is protecting ourselves from a lie.
Which is like, okay, well this is just this is just too good to be true.
And we do that with the Lord like okay well yeah I believe the Lord loves me I believe he loves me and then we get and we believe it to a certain extent and we hit our boundary.
And so we're shutting down to protect ourselves from him and then we can do that with spouses as well. We can shut down by a particular point, because our ultimate goal, because our belief, because how we approach every how we approach one thing is how we
approach everything. Our ultimate belief is hey we're deserving of love, to a particular extent, but once someone seems to express love for us beyond that we do not trust it, whether it be God or Josh or mom or whoever.
Yeah.
So, it's anyway that that definitely makes sense.
It's deeper than your marriage, it's just showing up in your marriage, right.
If you'll look you'll notice this shows up everywhere. The only difference is how close you've allowed these other relationships to get.
to such a degree where I'm not that anyone will be as close as your marriage that's not what I'm saying, but you know, you know what I'm saying that there's, there's a, you might like protect yourself from other relationships where you've never had to like face, or you
try to avoid facing, you know, create boundaries with certain people in order to avoid passing a particular point where you'd have to, where you could possibly run into the boundary to which you're no longer accepted, because you don't because you're like
oh I'm trying to avoid running into that boundary. So you make it much shorter than that boundary.
So, I mean, would that be what I feel like I'm coming up against especially like with physical intimacy, then it's it's just simply doesn't feel safe and that's why I don't want it.
Yes, it's possible. I again I don't know but this is possible, because the same thing with pornography so let's think it was talking about pornography, I guess.
Yeah, it wasn't here I was talking I was talking to somebody who wasn't talking to. I have no idea. Oh, I mean they weren't having problems with their husband, and it was something I was bringing this up as an example.
Did I was I talking to you about this using it as an example, it was just a random example that I came up with to try to make a point.
But anyway, so like for instance with with pornography. So, people can have a very strong marriage, and someone can, you know, given this like say for instance a man gets himself fully to his wife and he doesn't have different partners.
It's just, it's just only her and all of that. And he's physically intimate with her and he loves her and jokes on her and he shows affection, etc. However, if he still deals with pornography, it means that he is, he can have a.
It can be struggling with emotional vulnerability, because physical vulnerability is, is making a pathway in a way in which to express emotional vulnerability but it is possible to have physical vulnerability without emotional.
So an aspect of him, of a man like that that is withholding himself from his wife, because he feels that he'll be rejected, and the, and the, the aspect of pornography that is so appealing to someone like that means that they can satisfy the idea that they could
be appealing to someone, but they're putting themselves in an environment in which they can't be rejected.
And with a real woman that can be rejected.
And I don't mean rejected physically. I mean, rejected emotionally.
there's an aspect in which they kind of block themselves off.
And again, I'm not saying that they don't seem and that,
that they're not actually being affectionate. They are,
they're being very loving and very affectionate, even in the act,
but internally there's an aspect of themselves that they will not
open. They won't open it to themselves. They won't open it to their wife.
They won't open it to anybody because they have this fear of being rejected,
including being rejected by themselves.
They won't even look at themselves that deep.
So my point is that yes, that it, that emotion,
that physical intimacy, if there's an issue, there's a,
there's an emotional vulnerability that is struggling
because the physical intimacy is a,
almost like a body tool through which,
through which it's in
it's triggered. It's supposed to trigger emotional vulnerability.
That makes sense because you can have a very wonderful marriage,
even with people who can't be physically intimate because of
physical disabilities. Like say, for instance, you know,
people that are married to somebody who's paralyzed or, you know,
even who has a, what is that called? You know,
who might be brain dead or anything. I mean, you think about someone like,
what was his name? Who was, he was played Batman and he was in the wheelchair.
Oh yes. I have no idea what his name was, but yeah, I know who you mean. Yeah.
I mean, people like that. So I mean,
because there's a way to have that good, that good marriage.
And because it's emotional, the physical is a tool and a trigger.
It's very important. Yeah. So it's not to be discredited.
It's extremely important and it's not, it's not devalued at all.
It's just that you can have the importance of a marriage without it.
So that the benefit of it is it isn't used as a tool,
but it's not an end-all.
It's supposed to trigger an emotional vulnerability to a level that some,
that talking doesn't get a person.
Well, it can, it can get a person. Yeah.
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. But yeah, it's a lack of feeling safe.
Yeah. And I'm not trying to declare anything over you.
I'm just saying that hearing everything that you're saying,
those are some ideas you can think about and figure out, well,
does any of this, what you'd talk about with the Lord,
does any of this seem to ring a bell or ring true or sound familiar or
trigger any ideas or whatever?
Yeah, no, I know. I know for sure.
Like physical intimacy always triggers fears in me
always fears of, you know, did I make the wrong decision?
Am I getting married? Did I marry the wrong person, et cetera, et cetera.
And I know that that, you know, I, yeah. And you know,
how do you, how do you just, do you just not even like,
do you just not even give the fears any,
like how do you work through that in a healthy way, but still not give it,
give it the attention that it wants? You know what I mean?
Yes. So it's easier. So there's two different ways you can do it.
You can battle the lie, but that's a lot harder because again,
it's focusing on a negative.
And so you, you end up beating the enemy that you're trying to flee from,
which is absolutely possible, but it's just harder.
Or you could just fill yourself up with the truth so much.
In other words, just focus on whatever the truth is.
And, and let it over and let it over power and overwhelm the lie because that's
what, in other words, you choose a new focus. Like, no,
and it's a choice because remember that you don't believe it yet.
You know, it's a choice. It's an intentional willful decision,
which is terrifying because if you don't believe it,
your body and your soul thinks we're going to die. You know,
we're going to leave ourselves emotionally vulnerable and we're going to die.
Emotionally vulnerable in some way that is actually going to cause us at some
level, either physically or soulishly to suddenly not exist.
It's that it's, that's, you know, that's why it's a leap of faith.
It is,
it's a choosing when we've got nothing but word on which to step out.
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Honestly,
I feel like everything that I've been sensing the past,
I don't know how long, everything that I've been sensing,
like you just put into words tonight, honestly. And it just,
everything just makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, very much so.
Well, I'm sorry that for
All of the struggles, I'm glad that you're in a wonderful marriage, you know, with someone that
that you're just like, Oh, yeah, he just, just loves me. And, and you've got a good platform
and a good, you know, with him. And then what it is that y'all have done all of the hard work in
order to build, which is that, that the vulnerability with each other to communicate
very clearly and very openly and very transparently, that is huge. And that you have to support,
you know, emotionally and to support the marriage that the two of y'all want to want to do what you
need to do in order to get this to work, you know, in order to push through. And I'm not trying to
use all of these, you know, all of these tree of knowledge and evil words, but I'm just trying to
get an idea across here in the way that we understood it for so long. Y'all, you're really
in a wonderful position to, to deal with this. And so that's, that's a tremendous blessing.
But it does not, it doesn't actually take care of, it doesn't,
you still have to do it. And so whether someone was in your position or not, or they were in a
more, in a position where, I don't know, I didn't know what position it would be in, but
they, you, it, it still comes down to the fact that a person still has to make the choice.
And, but I was telling someone about, about you the other day, I was talking to them about you.
It was, it was someone within the group and I promise I did not reveal anything, you know,
that you've told me in private. It was all public stuff that you've talked about
in the community Q and A's or on your post or whatever. And they were talking, oh, you know,
Carrie's done this and Carrie Snow overcomes, and I was telling them, I said, I know that you
remember. I said, do you remember what it is that she went through? I said, I said, I said,
you've got to understand that your situation isn't just because it looks different than Carrie's.
And I don't remember what the situation is because, you know, everybody thinks their
situation is smarter. And I don't remember that they, they're, I don't know that they
necessarily thought their situation was smarter. It was just, they couldn't see past it is all it
was. And they weren't trying to devalue yours or theirs. They were just like, well, you know,
Carrie seemed to overcome. Why can't I overcome? You know, what's wrong with me is kind of what
their perspective was. And I had to explain, I was like, no, you've got to understand she had
to still make that choice. And, and regardless of the persons of the events in someone's life and,
and what, what circumstances that they're in, they, we all still have to make the choice.
And, and, and it, it's just as hard for each one of us because it's a leap into the absolute
unknown. I said, so on the outside, I said, it looks like, oh, wow. Yeah. Carrie, you know,
Carrie, you know, she, she shifted into rats and all of that. I said, exactly. I said,
and, and I told them, I said, and you do understand what, what helped her as to what
helped Carrie do it is the fact that she was so desperate. She gambled everything. I said,
that is what is required of everyone, regardless of their situation. That's what was required of me.
And it's just that each person's everything that they have to gamble just looks different.
Their basket of things looks different, what's in their basket, but everyone has to gamble the
entire basket. And so anyway, I was just, I was just, lack of a better phrase, I was bragging on
you. Encouraging someone else with the fact that, hey, look, someone else did it. And they,
and so someone else, you can be encouraged that someone else has walked this path before you,
not just me, but Carrie and other people. And this is how they did it. It looks pretty on the outset,
but when you're in it, you know, you understand between you and the Lord how to gamble everything.
I don't remember why I was telling you that, but maybe to just encourage you that,
that you've done an absolutely, you know, amazing job in your willingness to,
you know, to do whatever it is that you needed to do to follow the Lord. And that's not easy.
You have to gamble everything, everything internally, everything externally.
And it's just this leap of faith. Maybe that's what I was talking about.
I was talking about the leap of faith, you know, and when you're like, but there doesn't
look like there's anything to catch me on the other side.
I'm like, exactly.
That's why, that's why we go by God's word, because he's a sure thing.
And why he talks so much in the Bible about his word, he says, my words do not come out
and return to me void, but they always accomplish that, which I set them out to do, you know,
and where he talks in Hebrews, I don't remember which chapter, maybe it's Hebrews six, where
he says that he was so concerned.
Okay.
I'm paraphrasing here, but in order to, he didn't allow Abraham to be part of the covenant.
He allowed Abraham to be the third party beneficiary, but God made guarantee with himself, God set
himself up as the guarantee that he would do something because he needed to ensure that
it would actually be done.
So in other words, his word, yeah, highly recommend that you go read Hebrews six, it's
absolutely fascinating.
He put himself up as the guarantor because he said he could find nothing else by which
to swear other than his name, other than himself.
So he said he swore on himself because it was the only thing that was sure enough in
existence that would, to use as a guarantee.
Because even Abraham, with his faith in the Lord, was not a sure one.
So anyway, my point is that God's word is that sure, and he always talks about that.
So already given us multiple, he talks about it just all throughout scripture, that we
can trust his word because he's fully aware that's all we're stepping out on.
So we talked a lot about how we could know and be assured that it's strong enough to
sustain us if we step out on it.
And you've done that.
And that's no small thing.
Most people, I mean, you know, most people by far who've ever have existed have not done
what you've done.
And so it's hard.
And I wanted to just, you know, commend you for that.
And so you have another opportunity to step out in this and understand that because most
other people, most of the people come to this threshold, they're like, no, I don't want
to do it because it is this hard.
And so I want to make sure that that is very clear.
It is this extremely, extremely difficult.
So don't devalue your decision, the weight of your decision.
Yeah, it's just, I mean, I never thought of it, though, in the parallel of, you know,
I went into my relationship with the Lord with reckless abandon and literally just threw
everything to the wind.
And I've never thought about the parallel to marriage, to, you know, it feels it feels
so terrifying to just to just go like all in and to just be vulnerable and to just go
the whole way, you know.
But at the same time, you know, has God failed me in this journey?
Absolutely not.
And it gives me a lot of faith and courage to to have the same, you know, to have the
same thing in our marriage, too.
So I'm glad that you see it like that, because that's exactly the way you should see it.
I'm just glad that that's an encouragement to you.
Yeah. Well, thanks so much.
My goodness, you're probably like this is yeah, I was like, you know, I don't know what
she's going to think of all of my deep problems, but I'm just here we go.
I mean, I'm sure it's not every evening you get you get the full scoop on marriage
problems and everything else.
But thanks for dealing with it so graciously.
Oh, you're welcome. You'd be shocked at what people talk to you about.
Now, not my I mean, I have had clients talk to me about deep marital issues, you know,
like even intimacy issues.
But yeah, I mean, I've had people, you know, outside that my client group who struggled
with things like that talk to me about like all kind of like sexual addictions or the
fact that they can't intimate they struggle having intimacy with their partner unless
they imagine a threesome.
I mean, like fantasies.
I mean, the struggles that they have that they're like, how do I you know, how do I
deal with it? So I for someone who's never been married, I hear a shocking amount.
I get all kinds of all kinds of healthy things and all kinds of perversions.
And yeah, I'm sure, you know, all kinds of things as far as, you know, becoming or
understanding sexuality more.
Do you have any like resources or I mean, where how do I even begin to because I know
I mean, I know that I do not have a.
give you a sexuality at all i mean sexuality was an extremely shameful thing growing up
and it was always there was nothing there was nothing pure and holy about sexuality at all ever
in our home like growing up yeah but you know where do you begin to unlearn or where do you
begin to start getting the correct perspective of sexuality um you know i don't have a book
that i or you know i'm trying to think of things you know i don't have a book that i'm aware of
i mean i know that there are them that there are books and i know that there are christian books
that that talk about sexuality you might want to just kind of google that you know some phrases
um you know say something about christian and then women's sexuality or something like that
or healthy women's sexuality maybe that christian okay women's healthy sexuality and see what comes
up and read some i read some things i'm afraid i don't have anything off the top of my head
yeah that's totally fine i don't have anything that i've ever read uh it's just something that
the lord that i just you know it's just one of those things that i just know in the spirit
but i've never actually read about it it's even things in myself that god has had to address
because even though i'm not married because because like you i didn't grow up with a healthy
view of sexuality so i just thought it was all shame and it's all evil and it's all whatever
but at the same time it was needed for procreation and and you know and married people seem to you
know at least some married people you know seem to like it you know or you're or everyone thinks
you're supposed to like it and so there's this very weird threshold on the day you get married
at which some point all of a sudden you're supposed to you're you're even you know people's
mothers suddenly start giving them advice and encourage them on things that is a lot to lay on
a on a woman or man on the night that they're you know that they get married we yeah they're
supposed to suddenly change their whole mindset you know yeah well we when we were dating we were
required to not even we were required not to hold hands like completely physically nothing
and it was extremely traumatizing going from that to like boom okay now you need to go consummate
your marriage you know and it's like extremely traumatizing or it was anyway and it's like i
don't see how those two worlds can reconcile to where all of a sudden it's like nothing until
all of a sudden boom it has to be everything yeah i'm sorry but that just did not work very well
no that makes complete sense and again that's one of the things the lord's had to
had to reveal to me because i read the whole i could stay to get by book just like everybody else
yeah like oh wait a minute i know and um yeah yeah i yeah the lord's really had to teach me
all kinds of things so related to that
again relationships with guys with guys and like i don't know just things i wouldn't i don't know
that i did not think that i would i don't know i didn't know how to try how to say what i'm trying
to say but yeah i've had to that's had to start already teaching me some things so i'll have a
more healthy perspective um which is something that we should have all grown up with as opposed
to me just learning it now so it's not like oh i'm learning things outside of the scope of
marriage that i should be learning in marriage no there's a healthiness that i we should have
all grown up with now how you introduce a child to that at the appropriate time and not too early
well then that's one thing but um but uh you know just talk about when and when you do introduce
them to it that it we should have had a healthy perspective as opposed to shame until the night
of your wedding or until you know you're going to the doctor before your wedding and they're
and you're the gynecologist is talking to you about different birth control options and you're
like oh my word you know which one do you want you know which one does your fiance want you to
have and you're like oh my word i have to have that discussion you know yes exactly yeah like
to do i want a what a what ring and o-ring and i have to ask him if he wants that or if he wants
it
oh man you articulated perfectly i tell you what you know this very timid shy
sheltered little mennonite girl and then all of a sudden i was like yeah i was culture shock yeah
but total side note but you know then the chinese culture they will
Men or women, depending on the culture, will sit outside the marriage chamber to ensure
the consummation of the marriage. Isn't that horrid? And in some cultures, they bring out a
sheet as proof of her virginity. Wow. Okay. Yeah. It wasn't as traumatizing as I thought then.
They do that in Indian culture. Even though it's still practiced. Oh yeah, in Asian Indian
culture. Now, not everybody does it, but you know enough. And the Asian Indian culture,
some of them do it. They do it in Asian, in like Chinese culture, some Korean culture.
In the Korean that I've seen, it was women. Now, I saw this on a movie, and it was the women
doing, sitting outside. And then for Indian, I heard that it's the men that sit outside.
But anyway, and then of course you remember it. They talked about this in Israel as well.
Right. Yeah, that spill. I mean, sorry to be graphic, but you know,
he actually did not consummate it with her and let his seed spill on the ground. You remember that?
And that was just a horrible violation. Right. Well, people were like, people, how did anyone
know that? You know, anyway. Oh my goodness. Wow. Well, thank you so much though for taking
the time to talk. And you have no idea how much it means. My goodness. Yeah. It really meant a
lot. But it sounded like you had a busy evening of calls and stuff. So I appreciate your time.
That was weird. I had all of this time, and then all of a sudden I had all of these calls. It was
very strange. Totally fine. I was able to rest while I didn't get sleep part of it all last
night. So I was able to sleep in between, you know, waiting here back for you. So it all worked
out like it always does. I'm glad. Well, it was good to talk to you, Curie. I'm glad you reached
out. Yeah, thanks so much again for your time. Are you traveling all night or just to a destination
tonight? I'm traveling to Houston, and then I'll be in Houston for a week and a half. And then
yeah, so I'm trying to think. Yeah, I'll be in Houston for a week and a half. And I should be,
I should arrive in about, I don't know, 45 minutes, maybe. Okay. So I'm almost there. I'm
already in Houston. Okay. Wow. Very good. All right. Well, I will let you go. And thanks again
so much for the time to walk me through all of this stuff. It really means a lot. You're welcome.
I hope you have a good night. Thank you. You too. All right. Well, I will let you go.
We'll talk to you later. Bye.