Okay.
Eric.
Talked his way out of the nap and it's doing quiet time instead.
So.
By the way.
Am I breaking up?
I didn't think about it. No.
Okay.
Well, I was just wondering if I needed to switch.
For it to like cellular or something, but go ahead.
No, it looks fine.
Okay.
Yeah. So anyway, Eric is out in the living room playing with Legos.
So he might be in and out of here. I'm not sure, but I told him,
I'm going to go have quiet time.
Bedroom.
If he needs me, he knows where to find me. So he said,
he'll just be out there in the living room playing.
I'm very jealous of the Lego.
I can't wait to have a little boy.
Penny.
Come here.
I just want her in here so that I can grab her if I need to.
She starts camping.
Oh,
Good girl.
Okay.
Sorry.
Thank you for.
Letting me call you. So last minute.
Yeah.
I feel like it's like one of those things that has been like brewing.
For months.
And then all of a sudden.
Kind of all blue part this morning.
But I think the basis of it.
It's just that I'm so.
I'm scared that my faith in God is shaking because of.
What I'm experiencing.
And I'm like, I don't know.
God is one way.
And you don't change that.
You know,
And you, you just stay inside that box.
And if you step outside of it, then, you know, look out.
And, you know,
Josh and I have very much stepped outside of that box.
And.
I mean, the things that we're experiencing and, you know,
It's like.
Who I used to think God was and who.
Like, and whatever I'm experiencing now is so different.
That I'm afraid. I don't even believe in God anymore.
And.
Like when we had went down to North Carolina.
Like to see you the last time we went down with Sharonda.
And.
And she's very much like, you know,
She gets it.
She she's living the same life that we are, but without.
God, like everything for her is just.
Who's Sharonda.
The lady that came down with us to North Carolina.
That Loretta's friend.
Yeah.
What.
Yeah.
Like had grown up in a Christian home and was it quote unquote, like,
I don't want to say it's strong.
I'm believer, but I mean,
just like that she and her husband went to church.
They were very serious about their faith. It was part of their life.
Right.
Yeah.
She was actually okay.
So like she was.
Yeah, they both were.
And her and I were talking on my home from North Carolina, you know,
and she,
She was like, I don't know what I'm experiencing.
But I know that I can't talk with her.
And label what I'm experiencing as God,
or else she just doesn't hear it. You know?
And so it's just so fascinating to me.
Like she's experiencing the same thing that I am.
But yet she said that she doesn't know that the Bible's full of nothing
that's like completely renounced like her faith and it's like,
else, except just Greek fables. Like she just doesn't know.
there is no God. Like, I think she's just in the midst of it.
And, and she doesn't want anyone to force her or convince her to
think of anything different anyway. I've noticed. Yeah. Yeah,
big time. So anyway, it was like, it was not very receptive
with me as a person when we met her. Yeah, that would make
sense. So anyway, after that, I came home, and it was the
strangest week. And I was just all of a sudden, like, you know,
what is it that we're experiencing? You know, like,
all these things, like, everything I've been taught
about God isn't valid for me anymore. That's what it feels
like. And, like, I feel like there's so much more out there.
And I'm so scared. Because all the things that I've experienced
and am experiencing is just so different than what I was told
that God is. And I told Josh, like, if what I'm experiencing
isn't God, then I don't care. Because I love my life and what
I'm experiencing so much. That if God is still that mean
dictator, like I don't even care. And I'm just like, my
word, like, where have I come to, that I'm that I love my
life more than my faith, like, is that's what's happening to
me. And I'm just I'm scared. I'm scared of myself, because I feel
like all of a sudden, I'm aware of how much power I have in me
and my belief. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I can do this
on my own. Like, people that don't even label this as
Christianity can do it, you know. And I feel like all of a
sudden, you know, it's like, I don't know, was it God that got
me here or not, but I don't even care. Like, you know, I'm afraid
that I've just come to this place now that everyone said
that I would. And now I'm just crazy off in the deep end, you
know.
Well, for one thing, it, it could be that. And so I'm just
presenting this to you and so you can seek yourself if that if
this is true. Could it be that it's not that you don't, it's
not that your life matters more to you than your faith, your
family matters more to you than your faith. But that what it is
that you have is more important to you than who you thought God
was. So it's not who God is. It's who you thought he was.
Yeah. And so that scares you because it's like, well, I
value this more than that. But is that thing? Not actually
real? Not that God's not real. But that who this whole idea
that you had created your mind of who it is that he is that
you've been taught that he was and does that, that things are a
lot happier and nicer and more wonderful than and do you like
that more than and that's more important to you than following
a God like this, when this God isn't even real, so to speak. I
mean, God's real, but that this one isn't. Right? Like, could
it be comparing it to not you learned in in meeting God and
interacting with him who he is, but that you're actually
comparing it to that very, that very entrenched structure and
belief system that you've grown up with so long that as much as
you've grown in, you know, in the Lord and everything. Think
about how much more time and affirmations that there were
invested in the other. So it is still really entrenched. Yeah, I
mean, could that be some of it?
Yeah, for sure. I'm just, I just struggle so much to come to
grasp of how, how, you know, the God that I grew up with and
served and like, gave my life up for but never experienced like,
how drastically different they are, like, to, to what I'm
experiencing now, you know, and I'm like, is this God, you know,
but it's like, it's, it's all of a sudden, like you were married
to someone for so long, you had no idea who it is. And then all
of a sudden, you saw him one day, and you're like, well,
that's not at all what I thought I was married to. Well, who am I
married to now? You know, and it's like, all of a sudden,
nothing makes sense. And I don't, I don't understand what's
happening to me. Because I don't
So you keep referring to go ahead to do with what was, but at the same time, I
feel like I'm totally blaspheming God then because like my family still serves
that God and like, nothing makes sense to me.
So you say that it's things that have been in all kinds of things that have
been happening to you or that you've been experiencing or something like
that the past several months needs that both you and Josh have experienced.
So, and you're saying that that's kind of like throwing you for a loop.
Like, can you give me an idea about like what kind of things you're talking about?
For instance, like my, my, I'm trying to figure out what the word of it, what the
term for it is, but basically like my intuition with people that was always
really strong to begin with has been like extremely heightened.
And so the one day I was like, you know, I'm just going to try this out.
I'm going to see what happens.
This there's this lady that I've been following on Instagram.
And like the minute that the minute I saw her, I was like, Oh my word.
Like their relationship is so toxic.
She was dating at the time and was engaged.
And I was like, Oh my word.
Like they have to break up.
And of course I've never known this lady from Adam.
I have no idea who she is.
I never at all messaged her, like totally none of my business.
And then the one day she had something on her story about resenting,
resenting God or something.
Anyway, all I had to say, I had just, I really had this sense.
Like I have to message her and tell her that like, she's going through the
exact same thing that I went through like two years ago and that everything
will be fine, like just as long as she keeps pushing into what that is, that
she has allowed to start breaking open.
And in my mind, I was thinking like, I know she broke up.
Like, I just know it.
I know that she broke up and I w I didn't mention anything about her fiance.
They were engaged to get married.
I think next month, I mentioned nothing like that's none of my business.
And I'm like, I know that she broke up.
I just know it.
And she messaged me back and was like, she's crying and couldn't
believe that I knew all these things.
And then she said, I literally just broke up with my boyfriend two days
ago or my fiance two days ago.
And so it's like things like that.
And then there was an other time too, where I just knew something.
And I'm like, I don't know if this is God or not.
Like, I just know things and then I act on it and they're true.
And then I'm like, well, all of a sudden I hold all this power
inside of me and knowledge.
And I'm like, what kind of crazy witch am I becoming now?
Like, that's what I'm afraid of because I feel like the more I'm like, well, I
don't know if this is right or not.
I'm just going to try and see what happens.
Then it works.
And then I'm afraid that if the basis that I'm doing all these things on isn't
faith or isn't planted in God and all these things, well then like, do I
even believe in God anymore?
That's what gets inside of my head.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So, I mean, you know, that what it is that you are, are knowing about people
and stuff like that is because, you know, you, that you have, you're very
sensitive to the spirit and there, and there are just things that you just know
in the spirit, because obviously God exists for one with them and he knows
all things and they're so he's, he's showing you things you just, and, and
then therefore that's how you know.
So, um, I understand.
So if we get our minds off of that and we think, oh, I can just know all of this
on my own, well then it, I mean, that is how people like, there are even people
in like a mystic community, a lot of the people, you know, that I may have
mentioned names to y'all and stuff like that, that, that I don't, um, really
have a whole lot of connection with anymore.
And I don't follow anymore because they are, they're following the same thing
that you're talking about, that's rising up within you, that has you concerned
this idea of like, oh, I can use this.
And they're putting the label of God on it and it, you know, which
condones it in their mind.
And then they're going and doing what they want to do, feeling like that
because they have access to all of this possibility, oops, I can do this.
I can, I know these things.
What do I need God for?
Not that they're thinking, what do I need God for?
You know, because again, there's still, oh, I'm following God.
This is what God intended and what God planned, but there's, there's.
um there seems to be a disconnect and a lack of a lack of connection between
so that they're not relying on God so much and they're taking the the benefits
of being connected with God and then using them it's like the prodigal son you know asking for
his inheritance but then he takes it and leaves he still had it so it's not like oh well once you
want someone leaves well then they don't have it anymore no I mean God sent him off with that he's
like okay you know I promised you this so here you go but you do know that when you're not connected
with me with me you have it for infinity but if you leave then it runs out it also means that
there's no there's no spiritual life in it that that because non-believers can do what you're
talking about non-believers can do what you're doing it but if we're can if we're not drawing
from and operating in those ways by spirit and we're then it won't have life in it and it'll
bring forth to bring forth death and destruction even though all of the the results that come from
it sound good but it look good you know there's healings people like Joe Dispenza you know for
goodness sakes you know he has these huge conferences that of people where he's teaching
them to heal each other they're healing conferences and these are non-believers
so this stuff is accessible to even non-believers why because
so the thing is that yeah what you're talking about is actually able to be operated in outside
of God but it doesn't have life in it so so I say this to encourage you I know that some of
this might sound I'm fully aware I'm just being honest with you I'm fully aware that this might
actually sound discouraging to you oh my word this is exactly what I was afraid of you know but
it's but this is actually um uh I'm saying I think of it and I'm approaching it from a very
encouraged perspective in the fact that okay you can operate in these things with God or without
him and without him it leads to destruction it leads to death it's accessible still to all those
other people but it doesn't have the eternal life in it to actually bring heaven into earth
but when you operate in it in God in your relationship with God through the spirit it
brings life to someone from the outside it looks like you're doing the same thing this person's
doing the same thing as this person this person knows things and this person knows things and
things happen when this person says the things that they know and things happen when this when
this person says the things that they know but in the spirit one is bringing forth death and the
other is bringing forth life you know one is leading to nothing but destruction it's leading
from separate to separation from God is leading away from God and one is is leading you know
and is being invested in and has eternal value you know and things are actually shifting in a
very powerful and major way in the spirit you know so it is so I say all that to say
that you experiencing what you're experiencing is in no way proving that God doesn't exist
you can it's actually you have it because God exists but people can operate in it with or without
that's their choice yeah so um so anyway I mean I'm I mean anyway does that make sense
yeah that makes sense I think I think I'm just so scared because I don't know how to
I feel like I don't know how to experience him anymore because like for so long you know
and after the rest intensive it was just so much all the time and it was great
and then it was like this call to something so much just so much so much of what him
you know like you know like how you say when you start off there's so many interactions so
many confirmations because it's like the Lord wants to encourage you in the way you know and
I was like this is great it's never gonna run out you know and then all of a sudden
all of a sudden it dries up and I feel like he just somehow vanished and I feel like I still have
him in me but I can't see him out of me or maybe it's
the other way around, I don't know.
But I feel like in my dreams,
I'm having all of these dreams
of me raising dead people to life
and I'm seeing angels and then I'm like,
but I think I've been there.
And I just, I feel like it's this call
to like experiencing it supernaturally
and I don't know how.
I don't know how without being a crazy new ager
and like, I know that they have,
they've accessed something
that I think God intended us to access,
but I don't know of anyone who's ever done it.
And so I just feel stuck.
I feel so stuck because I know,
I know something is there for me spiritually,
like even more so than just, you know,
in the physical world.
Like I've seen the effects of things
when I speak things into spirit
or when I just don't even have to speak it,
I just intend it and it happens.
But then I don't,
I can't figure out how to experience God that way.
And it's frustrating me because I feel like
I experience all the effects of him supernaturally.
You know, but then it's like,
actually him, I can't seem to get a hold of.
And I don't know, I don't know.
I don't even know if that's possible.
Yeah.
Well, the fact that, well,
multiple things,
but one of them that you desire it so much
is indicative of the fact that it does exist
and it is possible.
So that that's what it is that God intends.
Now, imagine he is the most precious thing
available to us.
And I'm trying to figure out how to word this
so it sounds encouraging and not discouraging,
but therefore the things that are the most precious
are the things that aren't the most easily accessible.
And I don't mean, and meaning like, you know,
like in the world, what people do
is they work hard for those things.
They talk about the fact that, hey,
you have to work harder for the things
that mean the most to you.
The most, and the things that mean the most to you
are the things that you work the hardest for, you know,
that kind of a principle.
Well, it's not that way in the kingdom.
And the fact that we don't have to strive
for the Lord or anything,
but remember that it says that he shrouds himself
in mystery and that there's treasures
that are found in the darkness, you know, mystery.
And, you know, it says that in the Bible,
it says the treasures that are found in the darkness
and that's where God is.
So him, so it's just, it's not that he's saying,
hey, look, you know, I'm the most important thing
and therefore I'm going to make myself the hardest to get.
It's not that, it's just that it's the very nature
and principle of the kingdom and of who he is
that we, that he being the most precious thing
is something that we really have to press into,
not with striving, but just, we just, we pursue
and we pursue him as a being,
not pursue the effects of him, et cetera.
But all of those effects of him, et cetera,
are things that are supposed to encourage us to draw near,
to go further, to go deeper, et cetera.
So I don't mean any of that to sound like
God is high self and making, is playing hard to get
and saying, well, no, you've got to work really hard for me
because I'm the most important thing.
I don't mean it like that.
But it's just kind of like the nature of something
that's the most precious is the thing that's the most deep,
it's the deepest, it's, you know, whatever.
But, you know, you can ask God for all of those things,
pray out to the Lord about it and say, you know,
Lord, I want to know you, you know, not the effects of you
or the, you know, the results and the expressions
and all of that.
But just, I want to be able to touch and experience you.
And so I've had times where I've been able to,
and you've had times where you've been able to,
but it hurts when there are other times where we want.
and we can't seem to get it, we can't seem to connect.
And sorry, let me plug in my phone,
make sure my phone doesn't die.
Just a second.
And what was I saying about all of that?
Oh, anyway, so, but there are times where, you know,
I just really want to and experiencing more than I am.
So what I have to do, one second, is I'll do,
oh yeah, sorry, I need to just make sure
that my package is not getting rained on.
Good job, Eric.
Oh, okay, great.
Okay, we're all good.
Eric, I just wanted to make sure
that that's not getting all wet, okay?
I want to get that food out of it.
Huh?
I want to get that food.
Oh, well, I'll get it later, okay?
Yes, I will get it later.
You keep building your stuff, okay?
Take advantage of this time
that Dominic's not getting your food, okay?
Okay, we're good, sorry.
That's a good thing to come throw in there.
Take advantage of this time, right, Dominic's not.
Getting his fingers in what you're doing.
But anyway, so do you remember,
so in those times I have to do,
I just have to choose by faith
that he is who he says that he is,
that he is there, that he is who he says that he is,
just what he says that he is, et cetera.
And I've got no evidence.
My feelings don't feel like it.
Logically, I can't figure it out.
Logically, it doesn't seem to make sense.
And yet he said.
So there are times where that whole process is easier,
partly because we're feeling him,
or as soon as we do that,
well, then we get some kind of a result out of it.
We get some kind of a proof,
some kind of an evidence that kind of like
follows up close behind that gives us encouragement,
et cetera.
But I mean, this is why God has to talk about faith
the way that he does,
is it's like when we're in the situation that you're in,
who do we say that he is?
When there's nothing,
I mean, there's no feelings and a logic,
meaning like there's nothing in our feelings
that makes us, that convinces us that it's true.
In fact, sometimes we're flat out very hurt
and we're struggling with resentment against the Lord,
et cetera, or we're mad at him or whatever.
And then logically, we can't figure out,
logically, it doesn't make sense, but it's true.
So you remember when I was in a hotel room in Venice,
and I couldn't check out of my hotel room
because I had no money.
And I just lay there crying,
and I'm just like, Lord, I don't understand what's wrong.
Everything was going great.
You and I have been living this life together for,
I don't know, two year, a year and a half,
maybe it was a year and a half.
And then I had been living by faith for,
I don't know how long by that point,
maybe a year and a half,
maybe two years by that point, anyway.
Thing is, I said, you know, Lord, did something break?
Felt like I dropped something and it broke.
You know, what's going on?
And that's when he asked me, he said,
Ashley, who do you say that I am?
Don't repeat to me who I've told you that I am.
Don't repeat to me what the Bible says.
Don't repeat to me what you should say.
Who do you choose me to be?
And I'm telling you, this is who I declare that I am.
Is that the thing that you decide to choose
that I am to you, like as your reality?
So he wants to be chosen at such a deep level.
And that's how we get to experience them.
That's how we get to connect with his being
is when we choose him,
when there's like nothing except the fact
that he said that he is,
it's nothing to the fact that we choose that he is
who he said that he was.
And we actually, because like I said,
we don't have any evidence to back it up.
All of the things that we used to use as evidence
or used to kind of give us a bit of a bolstering
of our faith is being attacked
or is just felt like it was just all washed away,
you know, or whatever.
So, I mean, sorry, do you need to take care of something?
Go out and have quiet time
or you need to take a nap, okay?
Okay.
He's calling it.
I don't blame him.
It's like, oh, I'm going to take a nap.
I'll go find something to do.
So anyway, I mean, so that's really what,
what we're called to do in these,
in these times, in these moments,
is that there's just no easy way around it.
We have to just make the decision for ourselves
of who we choose God to be.
And anyway, it's, it's extremely,
extremely, extremely hard.
Meaning it's not, it's not complicated,
but it is very hard to do.
And, but the, it's in the sense
that literally everything changes
and it may not be immediate.
For instance, mine wasn't immediate,
but he did begin a journey immediately
to begin to heal me.
And I went through some more struggles after that.
And, and, but by that time,
and I remember because what happened is,
and I'm just giving you this example.
Well, it's kind of like, it's not that everything works out.
It's not that every,
everybody else's situation looks like this.
I'm just giving you an example,
but I lived through this particular example.
When I was in Venice and I made that choice,
what ended up happening is I still, I still struggled,
but I continued to make the choice.
I'm like, no, I know God, this is,
I'm still battling the external experience.
I'm still struggling with,
with my, with having to continue to make the choice
because it's not like it's just come easy,
but, and I had to do that for a while,
but what helped me is the fact
that I'd already made the choice.
I made the decision.
I made the choice and then I just had to,
and then I just would continue to remind myself,
well, I've already made it.
So I'm no longer, so even though I'm still struggling,
just like I was before I made the choice,
just like, even though I'm still struggling,
this time I've already made the choice.
I've already decided what I'm going to do.
I've already decided who he is,
not who I wish he were, not who I know,
not who I choose to,
not who I choose that God,
that I believe that God should be,
or that I should believe that God is,
or no, no, no, I choose that this is who he is
in reality, in my life.
I actually claim it and make it so, so to speak.
And then God will just show up like that
because he said that he was that way first
before he was that way.
So anyway, so even though I still had to go
through some hard things and like,
actually have to walk it out,
I'd already made the choice.
It was easier to continue to refer back to it
and claim it.
It's like, well, I've already done it.
It's not like I'm now in this situation,
you know, the next day and I'm still struggling
and I'm in the same situation that I was,
you know, the day before.
I'm really not because I've already made the decision.
I'm no longer being faced with having
to make the decision again.
I just need to remember that I myself know
I've already made the decision, so here I am.
And here we, and we keep going.
And I continue to choose that this is true.
Then eventually I got to a place where I went
to just try to like heal.
And the Lord, you know, a lot of time,
just kind of like talking to me.
And while I say that, I talked more to him
than I felt him, but I started to feel that,
okay, he does see me.
I'm not alone, even though I did,
I was going through a lot of pain.
Then I went down to Naples.
And in Naples, the bottom fell out of everything again.
And I had no money.
I thought that things were going to come through.
They didn't.
And so I found a week after the first incident,
after a week after Venice, at least,
I don't think it was longer than that,
but it might've been two weeks.
But anyway, a week or two afterwards
in the same situation again.
Lord, you know, I already made this choice.
So I expected that my outside circumstances would change,
that you would come in, that you would free yourself
to express yourself.
And that I wouldn't find myself
in the same physical situation again.
God's like, that's not how that works.
And so, and so I was like, but no,
I've already made the choice.
Lord, no matter what happens to me,
no matter how, no matter what I have to do in order to,
you know, because of the physical situation
I'm in, I've no money.
No matter what I have to do,
no matter if it like challenges my faith in you,
I still choose.
So choose that you are protector and your provider and you are that for me
right now. That you were literally doing it for me right now. My outside
circumstances don't determine or dictate to me whether or not that's what you're
doing. And so I made the decision and then I came back to the States and
everything changed. It was so hard to come back. The circumstances under which I
came back to the States were so hard, so hard. But I'm telling you what, everything
changed. And I don't remember, I think it was some point at which as soon as I got
back we went on vacation. My parents said we're taking us all on vacation. So we
went on vacation, somewhere on vacation, everything started switching. And
everything started and the Lord started, you know, bringing in all of the money
again, you know, to pay for my bills. And then I started traveling around the U.S.
again. And then that's when, that's when I met you. It's when, right? Yeah, that's
when I met you. When, when I started, I started traveling. And, you know, and I
went and saw, you know, Laurie and all these other people. So my, my point is
that when we make this particular choice it may not always, it's very, very
hard to make. And the circumstances and situations like, like you may not get
immediate proof and evidence as soon as you make the choice. You may not see
immediate proof and evidence in your life that you made the right choice and
see God now shows up again, you know, in ways that makes sense to you or whatever.
You may not. You may continue to have to make the choice because the point, the
point is you choosing the being, not the lifestyle. So that's what you're being
challenged with is where you're just like, you know, Lord, I appreciate and I
love the expressions of you and the effects of you, but why won't you let me
touch you? Well, the thing is, in order to be allowed to touch him, so to speak,
because he's presenting himself, but in order for us to do that, we have to
choose him with no strings attached. So sometimes we're brought to this moment
in which there are no strings and we have to choose them because there's no
proof. There's no, you know, there's no effect, there's no logic, there's no
nothing. And we just have to, we have to choose, we say, God, because imagine that
you wouldn't want to give yourself, you know, the deepness of who it is that you
are, you're being to someone unless, unless you knew that it was you, not what
you give someone that they wanted. And it's the same thing, you know, with the
Lord, he's like, is it me? Or is it the effects? And we all tell the Lord that
that's what we want. But if we're not willing to actually do it, when the going
gets tough, then God's like, see, you don't really, and I need you to choose
me. And now so the good thing is, as you, as you know, we've talked a lot about
before. It's an intention. It's a willful, intentional decision. This is what I
choose. You don't have to worry about, like, Oh, I don't feel like it. So my
feelings aren't matching up with it, or whatever. That doesn't, that doesn't
hinder you making the choice. You just make a determination for yourself of
this is what you choose. And that is faith. So your faith, something that you
want to do and want to shift into want to choose is not being hindered by
whether or not you feel like it. So you can make the decision. You just have to
decide if that's what you want to do. You know, into the degree that you want
to do it and all of that. But but yeah, that's it. So it's, it's not that God's
like withholding himself from us. It's just that God's like, No, I'm here. But
you actually have to choose me. If you want my being, you have to choose my
being, as opposed to God, I want your being without having to choose it. And I
just want you to give it to me. But I'm really, you know, there's all of these
effects and whatever. And God's like, No, no, you really have to choose out any of
it. And sometimes you're gonna have to, you get to the point where you have no
God's telling you to choose.
And so, anyway, this is an invitation.
So does any of that make sense for?
Yeah, it makes sense.
I was just hoping that there was-
But it really is where everything changes in your life.
Go ahead.
Here we go, Patti.
Yeah, the weird thing is that my external circumstances
are great, and I still feel this way.
You know, like, there's no reason-
If it doesn't satisfy.
Yeah, and I think, like,
it's just been this slow accumulation of, like,
feeling like I don't have anyone to take care of me
and just wanting that from God instead of me.
Like, you know, I'm like, I know he's thrown me the life,
but, like, I honestly don't have the strength to get in it.
Like, that's how I feel.
And I'm just like, if it's up to me to save myself this time,
I don't know if I can, because I just, I feel so alone.
Yeah, no, I definitely hear you on that.
I have.
And that's not something that I thought to mention
when I was telling you what I was telling you,
is that that is how it feels when you're in that situation
where you have to make the choice, is you feel alone.
That part of why it hurts so bad
when you're having to choose God and his being.
Do you need-
One moment. I need to take care of Eric.
Yeah.
Okay. I told Ashley, or Eric was like, who are you talking to?
And I said, well, I'm talking to Ashley.
And, you know, I've told you, we have two friends.
Like, you are an Ashley and I have another friend, Ashley.
And so he was like, oh, you mean daddy's sister, Ashley?
Somewhere in his mind, he thinks that you are the Ashley
that's daddy's sister. So I just was like, yeah, daddy's.
I just let him think that.
And so that's how he knows which Ashley you're part of,
that you're daddy's sister, Ashley.
That is hilarious.
When isn't, haven't you and I been told
that we look like sisters or after-birth sisters
and stuff like that a lot?
Yeah.
So, like, I'm talking to daddy's sister.
You and, you and my friend Amanda,
I'm telling you what, everyone always thinks
that we're siblings, but I think it's hilarious.
Well, Amanda's son, Jonathan, who is older than Eric,
he's like, he was like nine when he said this.
He thought legitimately that I was,
that I was Mike and Amanda's fifth child,
that I was their sister, that I was his sister.
And he didn't understand why I didn't live with them.
Why?
Just like, dude, I know you've known me.
I know I was like there for your birth, basically,
and everything.
And I know I've been there for your whole life,
but, you know, I'm mommy's friend, I'm not your sister,
but I'm very glad you love me that much.
Oh, baby.
Because I feel like, looking at me, looking at me like,
he's, you know, Mike, Amanda's husband,
just like, where is he getting this?
He's like, I don't know.
He's like, you can tell how entrenched you are
in this family.
Our nine-year-old thinks that you're his sister.
Oh, my God.
I mean, I can be Josh's sister, that's fine.
Because technically, I, yeah, isn't it fair?
That's hilarious.
Yeah, I don't know where he got that from,
but anyway, he was just like.
That is hilarious.
Yeah, I know.
Relationships are always very challenging
to figure out that whole idea of like,
well, he's related to you, and how are you,
how can people be related
and other people not be related, you know?
And it's always challenging to figure that out growing up.
Oh, but yeah, so anyways,
that was something that I hadn't thought to mention
is when you're in that situation,
one of the reasons why.
It's so hard to make the decision is not only do you feel alone, but you feel tired.
You feel meaning like you feel like you literally do not have the energy to do
it and you want someone else to do it this time, you're like, God, I have been
pursuing you, I have been doing this.
I had sacrificed.
I have given up.
I have whatever.
And Lord, people that are around me, um, that as much as people love and support
me, I still have to just do this on my own.
And, uh, and sometimes, you know, can obviously it be extending beyond the
spiritual circumstance you're finding in yourself and into a physical situation
and or emotional situation you're finding yourself in, in which you feel
alone in all those situations too.
And so that is just an exacerbate problem.
Yeah.
And the point is that that is what it looks like when you have to make that
drastic step is it so that's normal.
Is it feels alone and like you don't have the energy to do it anymore.
And you resent being asked yet again to be the one to do it.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was like, but like I said, if, huh, it felt like
that, it felt like that.
Yeah.
And, and it's not, but it does feel that way because that's how we interpret
being in those situations is, oh, this is, this is abuse.
This is, um, uh, unjust, unfair.
It's, you know, um, hard hardship.
There's not a, I keep thinking of a different word.
Um, there's an, it's like, there's this other word or phrase I'm looking for
that's like beyond abuse and I can't think of the word for it, but anyway,
yeah, it doesn't feel right.
It doesn't feel just, it doesn't feel like that's the way that things are.
And that's thing that's something, um, is being asked of you that they don't
have a right to ask if you like, this is not how things work and yet you're
requiring it, so that that's because we just have, um, whatever you call it.
Uh, we have a misunderstanding of like what this, what we're interpreting
the situation through a filter of our past experiences in life, you know,
maybe with parents or with friends or other authority figures or whatever,
and how they treated with us and treated us and interacted with us.
And then when God does something that looks like that, we put the label on God
of like, of, of, um, like he is interacting with us in a more, in a
selfish way, like the, like the humans were, and it's not, he's just like
noticeable because remember that anything that we go through, like all of the pain,
all of this suffering, um, uh, is always an invitation by God to more freedom.
So that's every, that's all that all of this is, is God is saying whether or
not you feel the way that you do.
In other words, whether or not you're recognizing what it is that you are,
you do understand that what you are feeling and experiencing is the, is the
state or whatever of all these other people, you know, the difference is
you're feeling it when you feel it.
That's God's invitation for you to shift out of it.
You have to live with it.
So why not know about it to get out of it?
Because even if you don't know that you were living it and experience
saying that you're have a quintet of it.
Is that one calling you?
No, no, no.
You're kind of thought someone thought he said, mom.
Oh, no.
Oh, you're you hesitated just a little bit.
Your connection, your connection is just a wee bit behind.
Oh, okay.
Oh, there we go.
Now you're back.
I, yeah, so I switched to sell cellular instead of case.
So anyway, you have to live under the consequences and difficulties.
Of where you are right now, whether or not you feel it and everybody else
around you that hasn't made the choice is having to do it too.
But the difference is God's like highlighting it to you.
So he's like, Hey, would you like to no longer live like this and live with the effects of
it?
So it's beyond even you feeling it, even when you don't feel it, you're still having to
live with the effects of it.
So with the fact that you feel it, in other words, the fact that it's not the feeling
of it, it's like the fact that you become aware of it and yeah, it brings pain and God's
like, yeah, but that's always there.
Whether or not you felt the pain, for instance, your body can be terribly sick and not be
notifying you of it, you know, like kind of a thing, pain lets us know there's something
wrong.
So it's the same thing in, you know, in the spirit is pain lets us know that something
is wrong, but it's not the problem itself.
So God's like, Hey, look, I'm highlighting this to you.
So wouldn't you like to deal with it?
Because if you don't deal with that, you're still bearing, you're still having to deal
with all of the destructive consequences of having it in your life and you know, et cetera.
So wouldn't you like to release it?
And so this, so this isn't, so even though it feels abusive, it's actually, and I don't
mean this in any kind of a shameful or condemnation way we've, we, we've put ourselves in this
situation that we're finding ourselves in.
And I don't, again, I don't mean that in a condemning way, some of it that we inherited
through Adam, you know, we inherited through our parents, we, you know, and some of it
is the choices that we made.
So I don't mean that, Hey, you know, we're to blame for it.
My point is God's not to blame for it.
God didn't put us in a situation that is actually him making life especially hard for us.
We were here and he's just like, Hey, look, you always have to look like this, but now
you're aware that you are making, giving you the opportunity to make a choice.
So that whole feeling of like, Lord, I feel alone, God's like, yeah, you've always been
that way.
You're just now experiencing the feeling of it so that, you know, you can shift out of
it or the whole thing of like, God, I'm exhausted and I feel like I'm always doing everything.
I'm feeling like whenever I want something from you, I have to exert more energy or give
up more or do more.
I have to do the thing, you know, and why can't I just be enough and loved enough for
you to do it?
You know, am I not important enough, you know, and, and therefore, because I'm not important
enough, if I want it, you'll, you'll, you know, graciously give it to me as long as
I do all the work.
I mean, that's how it feels.
Right.
But God's just like, no, no, all of that's already there.
That's the oppress that that mindset is the oppressiveness that you've been living under.
So wouldn't you like to live outside of that?
So in order to live outside of it, we actually have to face it.
We have to face the loneliness, meaning like we have to be in this position in this experiencing
that loneliness, experiencing that exhaustion and being like, God, I have no energy left
and I don't want to, you know?
And we have to face it in order to make a choice.
How would you, how would you say that in order to make, in order to choose something else
other than it, we have to have me facing it in order to say, no, I don't choose this.
I now choose this.
And that destroys the power of this thing over here, because you've grabbed a hold of
a higher power.
They had to do that to do all of that.
All of those results all sound great, but you have to do it.
And yeah, that, and so that is hard, but again, at least you don't have to worry about the
feeling.
You just have to make the choice and the decision and you're choosing a being and all of that.
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
It's okay, right?
Can I get that through?
That's out there.
Yeah.
If you're very careful, you will be.
Yeah.
Okay.
Close your door.
Yeah.
Sure.
It's not done for us, you know, and there's not an explanation out of it, but it does
mean that the solution is very simple.
We just have to make the choice, but anyway, so, and there is a solution to get out of
it.
That makes so much sense.
Yeah.
Because I'm.
like listening to you talk, go ahead. What were you going to say? Well, I was, I just wanted to,
you know, encourage you that, you know, you don't, there's an aspect in which you don't have to do,
you don't have to, you can relieve some of the aloneness by asking him, Lord, I'm doing this.
I'm having to make this choice. I had to make this decision, but this is really hard for me.
You know, can you help me? Can you give me the gift of faith? Can you, can you, I don't know,
be gentle with me? Can you, I don't know, just whatever. So you can ask for him to help you
and to be there and to participate and that you would feel his presence. So you can do that. So
you don't have to have to like not talk to him. You can ask for his help in doing the thing that
he's asking you to do, you know? So anyway, go ahead. Yeah. No, that makes that, um,
it helps me understand what's going on because I know, I know that,
I know that if I don't choose, it's just going to go away until next time. You know what I mean?
Like, it's just gonna, it's, it's always been there and I can make it go away because I just
don't want to look at it, you know, and I would much rather do this hard. I'd much rather do this
intentionally with a relationship than stay over there all by myself. Cause that's a lot of work
to just stay there. But I, I'm seeing so many parallels to, as you were talking about the whole
like thing with perceiving God to be abusive because he has the same actions as someone who
was abusive yet. His heart is pure, you know, um, that, yeah, really helped me understand
because Josh and I really been struggling the last few days too, which is kind of what
made this all come to head. And it was the same thing. Like I just thought to myself, like he's
doing the same things that my dad did and his dad did, but yet I know his heart isn't the same as
theirs. And I was so confused and it's the same thing that I've been feeling towards God too.
Like you really require me to be an active participant, active participant in this.
Well, are you sure it doesn't have a hook? Yeah, it doesn't. Oh, okay. Well,
maybe we can return it and get the other one, but you can still play with that one
until we get the right one. Okay. I'll look, I'll look to see if I can find the right model number.
We got Harold helicopter, but it doesn't have a hook. So we're going to have to play. Does
that look great? Yeah. Yeah. But you can still play with that if you want to anyway. Yeah.
I forget what I was saying about being an active participant. Yeah.
And I mean, obviously marriage too, but it goes further than that.
And daddy has to assemble it. Good. Eric, can you please go finish your
Legos or go take that downstairs to your superstation? Okay.
You don't want that. Okay. Well, you may lay here if you're quiet. Okay.
No, it's Dominic's Jeep.
I know. Daddy and I will talk about it then when he gets back from work. Okay.
Hey, Eric, you need to either go have quiet time or lay down here and be quiet. Okay. Mommy
doesn't want to make Ashley waste her time. Okay. Are you going to lay down? Okay.
Anyway, don't blame him. I'd want to go play too. Yeah. He's a way down, but
making a lot of correlations between all the different things in my life.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. It's been challenging and hard.
And that, you know, things were starting to come up, you know, or not starting, but that
there were just some little things between Josh recently too. I'm sorry.
Does that hurt? You just really feel alone.
Yeah, you're like the person that's supposed to be taking care of me isn't even taking
care of me anyway so now I'm just angry.
I'm sure we'll get everything smoothed over soon.
Can you just just lay here and be quiet, okay?
I'll get you a snack when I'm done, all right?
No, I'm going to get it on myself.
Okay, then help yourself.
That's fine, if you need to open it just use the scissors, okay?
I think he keeps getting more tired and more tired because his visits keep becoming more
frequent.
Yeah.
Almost four.
Yeah, I'm surprised he's actually lasted this long.
So, was there anything else that you wanted to kind of bring up or talk through that's
bothering you or that's it?
No, I think that's it.
I think so.
Well, there was one thing as far as like the worst thing.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
What did you say?
There's something like put you down into like the worst angle.
I have this little nick in my fingernail that keeps catching on all like on my blanket.
Yeah, I get it and I can't get it.
Anyway, as far as experiencing the Lord supernaturally, is that something that you just discovered
on your own and you were just led with it in the Lord?
Or was there ever anything that you found to be helpful as far as tools or any kind
of resources that you found were like really helped you become more aware of ways to interact
with the Lord like that?
I'm trying to think.
How I did that.
I and other people and getting and hearing from or talking to or reading, you know, things
from people that had particular experiences to give me an understanding of like what's
possible and what I could press into and all of that because I just didn't know it was
possible.
So basically, it was just for me, that was my exposure.
I've had other friends, however, that have always had supernatural experiences with the
Lord and they thought everybody did.
I just thought it was normal.
And at some point, they found out other people didn't.
So they kept it quiet.
Because then now they didn't know anybody else who was having experiences like this
with the Lord.
So my point is that God can, God just has our journey with people, it wouldn't be different.
There are some people that God is literally their only teacher.
And there are others that have a lot of exposure to other people or books that they've written
or conferences that they put on or they're having to be friends with them or whatever
that exposed them to other experiences that people have had to kind of help them realize
oh my word, the world is a lot bigger supernaturally than I thought.
And then sometimes they ask them, you know, or if you read a book, you know, it'll explain
how you can experience that for yourself.
And then other times God's just like, you get exposed to all of this and then God himself,
you know, just kind of teaches you how to interact or whatever.
We have a gentleman with those supernatural experiences like, okay, so I just had this
dream or I just had this vision.
And what does that mean?
Is that real?
Is that God?
You know, and what am I supposed to do with it?
And so sometimes there are people that someone has connection with that they can talk to
and other times, you know, God just doesn't himself.
And there's a gentleman here who told the Lord that God, I believe that I don't know you.
And I want to know who you actually really truly are.
And God began to into experiences every single morning with the Lord.
I don't know for how long, but every single day, God would meet with him and take him
through these supernatural experiences.
And I don't remember if it's still going on, but he's just.
published his, I think his fourth book, maybe it's his only his third, and he's working
on his fourth of all of these experiences.
And he, and God, he just told God what was on his heart and God just started, he started
showing up and then God himself had to teach him in the experiences, what everything meant,
what to do with it, you know, et cetera.
And so I don't know that the guy really had anybody to talk to about it.
Now he knew that it was possible and it was real.
He just took that.
He didn't know other people in tight relationship that he could ask, okay, now what am I supposed
to do with it?
So anyway, I, I'll ask Ed if he, and I can think of any resources or whatever that we
can refer you to for, I don't know what that would be like.
Are you talking about dreams or are you talking about visions or are you just talking about
like more of God or what's possible or what?
Yeah, probably just more of God and what's possible.
Yeah.
Cause my dreams, my dreams, I mean, I don't, I, I mean, I definitely have most of experiences
with my dreams.
So it's not like I necessarily need or want those to be more supernatural.
I mean, if they end up being more supernatural, that's fine, but it's not necessarily, I've
been like, you know, already had that type of thing, which sounds really ungrateful.
I don't mean it to sound that way.
No, I understand.
Yeah.
I think for me, it would be more realizing what it, what is entailed more in the spiritual
world, the spiritual realm.
Because I know that there is that realm and that world, and I would just like to experience
more of it.
Yeah.
Now that you can obviously ask the Lord for, cause nobody experiences that kind of thing.
I mean, outside of God, unless, you know, God gives it to him.
And so you can, you know, tell him that that's what I do, just ask the Lord, I'd like to
experience this and whatever.
And then I had someone tell me who had no idea I'd ever prayed that prayer, prayed that
prayer.
And they had never met me and they knew nothing but my name.
And they just told me, they said, God tells me that you are wanting that.
And you said that he's going to give it to you.
And I'm like, Oh my word.
So anyway, you can obviously, you know, ask him as your father, you know, Hey Lord, this
is what I want.
Can you show me what more I can experience?
Could you bring me experiences?
Could you allow me to experience things?
And then could you either show me or bring me resources to show me how to grow in this?
What it, what it means, what I'm supposed to do with it so that I can gain understanding
and of what's going on and not reject things or or discredit them because I just simply
don't understand something.
So, so obviously he's our father and the whole point of our, the experience that we
have is to develop relationship with him.
It's not to have experiences, it's to develop relationship with them.
And so that means that he wants to, as part of his relationship, it's father and son,
father you into it, show you how it's done, show you what to do with it, you know, okay,
let's walk through this together and I'll tell you all of this stuff.
Sometimes he tells us through books.
Sometimes he tells us through people and sometimes he just tells us directly.
So there's always that.
And then, and then I'll talk to Ed, if there are, if there are things I can, if there are
resources that we can think of, all of the stuff that's coming to mind, though, are,
are things like experiences that people relating experiences that they've had, not necessarily
explaining to someone else how they can do it, or, you know, and how to do it or what
to do with it.
There's one exception, there's some guy and I don't remember what, I don't know what the
whole book is about, but Ed's been telling me, I need to read this book because I want
to see angels.
see into the spirit realm. And he said, well, actually there's this guy that I think his name
is. No, it's not Gary. I don't remember what his name is. And he said that in this book, he talks
about how he started seeing angels. And it's kind of like a, how to it's like, actually, I think you
need to read that though. I need to read it. There's not all. So my point is I'm not getting
a whole lot of how-to books coming to mind, but Ed knows a lot of resources. So I'll see if he can
think of that or books or, or like teachings or whatever that maybe would be helpful.
Some of the mystic stuff, I think that Ed and I have talked about, you know,
to y'all about that. We've been some of those people have gone, what appears to us to be
made some kind of a left turn somewhere. And because no one is immune from that at any point.
In fact, the further, the more that you've been given in the Lord,
Ed thinks that the more that you're given in the Lord, and I agree with him,
then the greater attack that you can come under and that to try to counter that. And so we all
want so much more, but the thing is with more comes more responsibility. And, and so we think
that some people have taken some things and gone, taken some left turn and they don't think so. And
all the people that have been following him for so long, don't think so. And these are people that
Ed and I used to listen to. In fact, some of these people, some of them are our friends and some of
them are people that we're not friends with it. Ed's met, knows, supported and helped and all
of that. And all of a sudden we're going, we're hearing all these stories and we're going,
they believe what? They're teaching what?
Yeah.
Um, so a little, you know, I, we don't feel like we can recommend those things the way that we,
the way that we used to, the people, we don't speak them ourselves the way that we used to.
They were just trying to, you know, just stick the word on, well, this is what all's going on.
Um, but that's a very long answer to tell you that. Um, no, I asked Ed about some resources.
Yeah. You can think of some things. Yeah.
It's good to talk to you. I'm sorry that, you know, you're going through, um, what you are.
I really do. I really do understand. I really, really do. It's awful. And, you know, I,
I haven't just gone through it. You do know that I'll periodically we'll run into that again,
where I have to, where I have to go through a, a, a season or feeling or whatever, and I have
to make the choice just like you are right now, that there's more coming up. It's just,
it's just how it is, but it's not like this fatalistic view of like, well, it's just how it
is. It's like, no, this is, this is releasing the flesh. This is overcoming the flesh and
relief from the rest. This is just kind of this is, this is moving. This is transitioning more
and more into spirit. And this is the process because of the amount of, because of the flesh
that has to be overcome. So anyway, but it is hard and I'm very, very, very sorry. I, I,
I don't wish that on you to talk to, because I know that you get it. And I'm like, well,
who does Ashley ever have to call and cry too? It's like, she doesn't have anyone. I mean,
now you probably do more than you did, but I'm like, I don't know what I do without you
because I just, some days I'm like, I am going to lose it.
I'm sorry. If it makes you feel better. I still feel like, like that on days like that. I had
a moment like that. I don't know, maybe it was two, three weeks ago. And Ed reminded me of it
yesterday. It's like, Ashley, you were, you were, you were at the edge of your rope. I was like,
oh yeah, absolute edge. And, and so when Ed gets to that way too, you know, and we all just kind
of, I was kind of do, and someone asked Ed the other, or someone talked to someone else the other
day and asked Ed and Ed ended up hearing about it later. Somebody asked, because they were talking
to Ed about stuff and Ed was, you know, encouraging them and counseling them or whatever. And so then
they went off to go see somebody else. And then they sit, they told somebody else who ended up
telling Ed later, they're like, who does Ed have to talk to? Like, well, that's,
the thing we, we, you know, we all have, I'm so very grateful.
We all have people in our lives that we just like, like, well, I have so-and-so
I can reach out to so-and-so and then we try to beat out for other people.
You know, we all just help each other.
It's just a, it's just a, you know, body, you know, part of the
body has its function and whatever.
So now that Ed and I are married, even before then, when Ed and I are married,
you know, we talk to each other and so that's helpful, but then Ed has his
circle of people that he, that he talks to, I have some, that he and I talked
about the fact that I don't have the number of people that he has and that
that's an issue, knowing that I need, I need some people I'm like, I know.
I know Ed, don't tell me something I don't know.
Like, do you have a woman to talk to?
Well, I don't know.
It depends.
I talk to different people, but different people.
Sometimes I call Carrie, sometimes I call Amanda, sometimes I call Lindsay.
Sometimes I call, I don't know, she's like, yeah, but somebody older.
No, I don't, I don't know what you're trying to do.
Anyway, so I'm praying about that.
I was like, well, I've been praying about that Ed for like decades, so.
Oh man, well, truly, honestly.
I, I do not know what I would do without you and I, you mean a lot to me.
Our relationship means a lot to me for not only just, I mean, giving of your time, I
think was probably the least of what you gave today, giving of yourself and your
energy and all of that.
I really, really, really appreciated it.
Oh, I'm so glad.
So glad to be here for you.
I like to, I like to help people.
Well, love you dear friends.
I'll be praying for you as you go through this and that'd be, be quick.
And
that I understand a little bit more what's going on and that this is actually how
hard it is sometimes.
Like it, it's been hard in the past, but I always like, I feel like now I'm, I'm
I feel like now I'm, I'm, I've had enough of time with the Lord in the past where
I'm like, this seems offensive now because like in other times I was still learning
who God was, you know?
And so I was like, oh, well, this is fine.
It's just all a part of it.
Probably, you know, it's just hard and that's fine.
And then all of a sudden you get to know more and more of how loving he is and
all these wonderful things.
And then it happens again.
And you're like, yeah, I know.
It's like, why would you do that?
I thought that was a segment of my imagination before I knew you loved me.
How could this happen after you left me?
Yes, exactly.
It's like the more you, the more you, the longer, you know, the Lord, and then it
gets harder and harder, the worse it hurts because it's like, I can't believe
that you do this.
It does.
The worst it hurts.
Yeah, very true.
And there was one more thing that I thought to tell you.
What was it?
Oh, that's a bummer.
Oh, well.
Anyway, I mean, you've got got plenty.
It was just something else.
Oh, choosing.
So you remember what it is that you're actually like, like choosing, right?
Not like, because remember like, God is me or who I say God is.
Yeah.
And so it's not like, oh, that you give me these things to you, whatever.
But no, God, you are, you know, the things that he declares himself.
To be as his personhood, so to speak, and his character.
And that would be things like provider, protector with, you know,
identifier.
They loves you.
They likes you and then he comforts and then he's comforter that he is those
things.
Not that he does certain things for you that manifest in a particular way.
So it's him, not the manifestation.
It's his character, not the manifestation, etc.
And so anyway, it's because sometimes we can think, oh, well, so what am
I choosing?
Well, God, I'm choosing that.
That your God or I'm choosing that, you know, you do act like this towards
me.
I could be disappointed because he doesn't always do that, you know, you
know, so it's like we have to we have to make this.
We have to choose God detached from him expressing any of that detached
from the expression of any of that.
And so that's what you're choosing and that that's vital to understand
because
Cause that's where the power of the faith is to choose.
Anything else won't work.
Thank you.
That is very, very helpful.
Do you want to tell Ashley?
Bye.
Good to see you, Betty.
Thank you very, very much.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Good to talk to you, Carrie.
Thanks for reaching out.
Yes.
Okay.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you too.