Hello?
Hi.
Is it?
I think you're frozen.
How are you?
I'm good.
Your picture is frozen.
Yeah.
I was noticing as well.
It might be my reception.
I don't know.
I just turned off my Wi-Fi to only use cellular, so maybe that'll help.
Okay.
Is that better so far?
Let me think.
No, but I think I actually don't have a lot of...
Let me see.
Let me try this.
Let me try...
No.
Okay.
Are you there?
Hello?
Yeah, can you hear me?
Okay.
Let's see. Oh, it says that you've got one bar.
Okay.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah. So far, I think it's better.
This is better because I think the reception in the other room.
I'm not at.
Home. I'm at my sister's place.
It's a fall break in Norway.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Well, this seems to be a lot better. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'm okay.
Well, you see.
Where are you originally from?
Because you speak perfect English with like an American accent.
Well, I'm a I'm from, I was born in South Korea.
Okay.
But I came, I was adopted. So I came when I was one years old.
Okay.
Five years. I think I was with youth.
Youth with emissions.
Uh-huh.
Yeah. So it was with them for five years.
So that's probably okay.
Yeah. Okay. Well, cause I was just so confused.
I thought, well,
she didn't look like she's from Norway and she doesn't sound like
she's.
I'm like.
Yeah.
No, no. I'm.
I consider myself full Norwegian. I lived here all my life.
Yeah.
But my parents are white, tall Norwegians.
Yeah.
Me and my sister. We're both adopted from Korea.
Yeah.
Oh, okay. Great.
We're doll. Are y'all biological sisters?
No, we're not.
Different families, different cities in Korea.
Yeah.
Oh, fascinating.
Yeah.
I have always been fascinated by Korea.
I learned Korean for a while. I don't know very much.
Yeah.
Just because I was so fascinated by it.
Yeah.
I actually grew up in Turkey.
In the middle East and.
From the time I was 11 to 18 years old. So anyway, I have a very,
I have a big fascination with them.
You know, the world and other countries.
And can always easily relate to people.
You know, that live other places,
even if I've never lived in Norway or lived in Korea or whatever,
it's just like.
Yeah.
You know,
it's just such a great culture to be able to, you know,
just appreciate.
versus the states or whatever.
Different ways of thinking,
different ways of socially interacting or whatever.
So anyway.
Yeah, that's true.
It's like, it's different
when people have actually experienced it.
Yeah.
So it's good to finally get to meet together.
I mean, I know that we did a,
we did the No Shame conference before I got to see you there,
but we didn't get to visit or anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah.
Well, what would you like to catch me up on
so that I just kind of know, you know,
where it is that you're coming from or, you know,
your background or you'd like me to know.
I thought I could tell,
share like my life story really quickly.
Try to. Oh yeah, that'd be great.
Just because I think maybe it is important
to understand where I'm at right now.
Like I grew up in a very healthy Christian home.
I received Jesus first time when I was three
and was really conscious about it when I was 11.
Like followed Jesus my whole life.
Went into missions when I was 18, moved to Hawaii.
And yeah, that was,
and then I really,
I was brought up in a kind of a little bit
conservative home background.
So then I met with YOM when I was 14,
I experienced more of the Holy Spirit
and I knew, oh, this is what I want.
Like I met people on fire for God
and I'd never met youth that were in love with Jesus.
And I knew that's what I've been waiting
for all my childhood.
So, and then I was 18.
So I knew I wanted to go into missions.
Then I went to Hawaii and I fell in love with Jesus.
Like really, yeah, just, yeah.
Just met, really met Jesus for the first time
and fell in love with him and nothing else mattered.
And it totally transformed my life.
So, and also experienced God's presence
and learned how to call on his presence
that it would just come into the room
or I could just invite him and he would come anywhere.
And also he started to deal with adoption issues,
with sin in my life.
I needed to turn from things just like ask for forgiveness
and let go of things in my life and like make big decisions.
So it was like, so for some years I was doing that
and missions was really good,
but it was also very, a bit unhealthy back in the nineties.
This was back in the nineties.
So we weren't, so I think I also developed
some wounds from there.
And when I was 23 years old,
so I was a person with a very, like a above average energy,
a lot of work ethic and very Korean discipline
in my relationship.
It was wild how that rendered in the G-lysis.
Going 120 in my work, I would do 120%.
Like I would be like all in or nothing.
And then when I was 23, I burnt out like so badly
to the point where I got very, very sick
and I had to step out of ministry,
step out of work and school and everything.
And it just led me into a huge crisis with God
because then I've been given years of my life to missions
and I'd follow Jesus wholeheartedly my whole life.
And I couldn't understand why I would,
like why I would lose everything.
And so that happened then.
And what happened that was worse than the burnout
and left my body, like I would just cry.
I couldn't function really,
but was the worst was that he left me.
Like, I don't know if you heard about
the dark night of the soul.
I've heard of it.
Yeah, it was just like kind of, I don't know.
Like he, it felt like he just withdrew
his whole presence from me.
And that was like, and for years,
my soul was in a state of just darkness.
Like I didn't, like nothing in the Bible made sense.
I had to stop reading the Bible, worship, speaking,
like nothing, I didn't feel him.
Like it was like he left and it just traumatized me
because he was my best friend.
He was my husband.
He was like everything to me.
And then I, after a year, I felt like he said,
because I had been like desperately calling for him
to see me and to understand me.
And then I felt like he said,
I want you to see into my world.
Like let go of your world and I will show you my world.
And then I said yes to that.
And then everything kind of started to change.
And I realized that I, for 23 years had been.
kind of going on my own and hadn't really invited people in,
like I was living. I just kind of thought it's me and God. And
we can live life together. And I didn't really depend on other
people. It was just God. So he showed me how to invite people
in and to be vulnerable, and that I needed other people. And
he had created me for fellowship. There was a lot of
like healing that took place and also physical and mental
healing. But I didn't get better. So after about seven
years, well, I get better, and then I got worse and better and
worse. And then the doctor said to me that she was sorry, they
hadn't taken me seriously enough, they were going to do a
full checkup and everything. I went through lots of tests,
physically, mentally. And they gave me an ADHD diagnosis. And I
was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. And it still
didn't get better. And then I was through counseling, and a
counselor asked Jesus that he would reveal where this came
from, or that he would, like, leave it hidden. And then I felt
that Jesus revealed to me that it was the first year of
adoption before I came into before I was adopted. That had
Yeah, this, of course, is like a longer story. But the short
version is that it was the first living year. And then I went
back to that. And I talked to my parents about it. And I've been
to I grew up first year in two orphanages and different kinds
of centers. And in Korea, at that time, they had this view
that kids shouldn't adjust, they shouldn't attach. So they
sent kids around like packages. And then they understood, of
course, that this is horrible. We are missing the children, and
they stopped. But I was one of the few children during that
time. Yeah, so I realized over years, then I have like really
deep attachment disorder, trauma. Yeah, it took like 12
years to start working on it. And, and it was a series of
events that led me to it. And then I read books, and I got in
contact. And then finally, I got to a place where I would cycle
why with very good shrinks and psychologists, doctors started
to heal and focus on the attachment disorder. And
through, so it's like, and now it's 19 and a half years later.
And I've gone to shrink for five years, very, very good, solid
help. I've gone through lots of counseling, deliverance. I've
searched. I searched Jesus for 20 years for healing, and he's
done like a massive work in me. It's kind of like I explained to
my friend that it was like, that this is like what the devil
stole from me. And then over the 20 last years, God has given
this back. And then he's given me all this, like so many more
things that I didn't ask for, like, he's just blew my mind and
changed me and transformed me and used me massively. So he's
given me like, so much more than I could ever ask for. But
there's still this part. Yeah, there's still like, I still
live in, like, I have a very meaningful, rich life, and God
uses me and I am in a healthy, healthy job, healthy environment.
And I have loving family and friends around me. And that I'm
seeking the Lord with. But I'm in a lot of even after 20 years,
I'm in a lot of anxiety. And time, times depression. I still
think I have ADHD. And I still so nine years ago, my dad died.
So what happened then, because before that, even though I was
sick, I could always cry, I always had tears. So I could
always grieve and get the exam. And when my dad died, it was
like, it was like a lake froze over. And like all my emotions
kind of like my body, I could feel my body go like this. Yeah.
And since then, for the last nine years, I've, I've rarely
been able to cry. It was like, the tearful stuff, because I was
so attached to my dad, probably even more, even especially since
I was adopted. So he when I came as a one year old, he was the
first one that I really attached.
even more than my mom.
And we've most of the time
had a really good, healthy relationship.
So it traumatized me and shocked me
and I spiraled down really fast.
And so I spent years coming up from that
out of a very heavy depression,
but I still haven't,
I still don't really cry anymore very often,
or I don't feel safe anymore.
Like my dad was my roof,
the walls in my house and the floor.
So when he left,
I felt like I was without protection, without shelter.
And then suddenly I was afraid of being alone.
I've always been very independent,
loved being alone, very active,
putting myself to work.
Suddenly I stopped functioning alone.
I felt unsafe and like I struggled to be alone.
So since the last nine years,
it's like God has been on the other side
of like a glass wall most of the time.
And I can't cry and I can't feel his love
and I don't feel safe.
I don't wanna be alone.
And I'm living in lots of anxiety
and kind of my life is living in faith,
which it sounds kind of like weird
because I live in faith because I do a lot of things.
Like if you knew me and you didn't know this,
you'd never notice.
And you'd never like most of my friends
see like the strong side.
I really contribute to things around me
and I'm very, I'm pretty resourceful.
But Isabella, can you look at the camera?
Please, Olo, can you look at the camera?
Yeah, that's why I look at the camera.
So, but most, so, but they don't know
that I do this in faith.
Like I need faith sometimes to go to work.
I need faith to get me through the day.
Like, I'm like, I, sometimes it's been so bad.
I'm like, I don't know how to get up,
but I'll have faith to get to the bathroom.
And then I get to the bathroom and then my day starts.
Or like, I actually don't have strength to go.
And if I'm asked to do a testimony in my church,
like I don't have it in me, but I do it in faith.
And then I do it.
And then God uses it.
So it's like living in constant weakness,
living in constant faith in a way.
So then you also see a lot of miracles,
but it's also exhausting because it's-
Correct, that's what I was gonna say.
You're probably tired.
Yeah.
Probably very exhausted.
So I kind of thought that I,
because there's so much good in my life
and I've been so healed, I kind of thought that,
okay, maybe I just need to accept this,
that my life will be like this
because it's so rich and meaningful.
And I'll just have to live in anxiety.
It's just a part of the package.
I was damaged one year old.
And for some reason, shrinks can't heal it.
And even counseling and prayers can't heal it.
So, and then, but I kind of,
when I heard your, I listened to your teaching this summer.
Yeah, and then I kind of,
and then also, of course,
there are things that happens in life that makes it harder.
Like I suddenly, because,
probably because of stress over 20 years,
my system has been a little bit down.
So I got an ear infection, which led to tinnitus.
And then that became a huge health problem.
And I've been seeking a clinic for this
and paid lots of money and kind of in a way,
partly living in with sound
that you don't want to be there.
And the audiograph and pedagogues think it might be,
because usually ear infection won't give you tinnitus,
that they said that since your body
has physically been in stress for 20 years,
then your system probably is very prone to react.
And it was maybe that that caused like bad tinnitus.
So that happened, that's just life and or part of this.
And then another part is like,
I met a man that I wanted to marry and it didn't work out.
And then that plays into the whole rejection wound.
That's part of the grief and sorrow that I'm feeling.
So some of it is like 20 year old and my first year,
but some of it is like.
Tinnitus is a year old health problem
and the broken heart is like a few months ago.
A few months, I was gonna ask when that was, yeah.
So it's kind of hard to know what is what
and the situation is that I have been living in a lot of,
so sometimes you don't know what came first,
the hen or the egg.
I don't know if you have that expression.
Me too, yeah.
Yeah, you have the same expression as we do.
So I don't know what came first or what causes what.
I just know that I kind of feel in that hopeless
because like I've tried everything
and when I say everything, it's like-
I'm sure.
I've tried everything I've been in,
like I don't even, yeah.
Yeah.
So I've had multiple people come to me and tell me,
including by the way, and I can tell you this
because you're in the rest intensive
and you could see this testimony,
including my own sister who has said that
because you know how it is with family.
It's like, oh, you're doing that thing.
I'm so happy for you.
That's great.
But for them to actually buy into you helping them
or know something that they don't know
is a little challenging.
So anyway, she finally got to the point
where she was so desperate.
And I think that she just,
I started like pouring into her instant
when she was telling me the things she was struggling with
and whatever, that she finally started hearing hope in it.
And so she finally decided to listen to what it is that,
you know, to one of my, you know,
to my teachings about rest and whatever.
And it completely changed her.
And what she says, and I've had at least one other person
tell me the same thing,
that they have been to multiple counseling sessions.
They've been to like Celebrate Recovery.
They've been,
I don't know if you know what Celebrate Recovery is.
I don't know if it's over there.
So anyway, it's this organization here in the States
that helps people who are either dealing with like
addictions or major mental and emotional health issues,
that kind of thing.
And I think it's a Christian organization anyway.
So it's a big thing.
It's almost like group therapy.
She went to that, very big, very well known.
So in other words, it's known for being successful.
And that wasn't how it wasn't dealing with it.
And then she's even been to deliverance sessions
and that wasn't fixing it.
And she said that when she learned about rest in the Lord,
in other words, the power of the gospel
and finally claimed it, she said that finally worked.
So, you know, the Lord has their own journey,
has his own journey for everyone.
I just wanted to give you encouragement
that there've been other people before you
that have tried everything and every bit of it
either didn't work or it would just work a little bit
but it wouldn't actually fix the root issue or whatever.
But then they found healing in learning about rest
because rest is basically is what God has saved us into,
which is that unification with Christ,
where there's now, we no longer have to provide for
and protect ourselves and strive really hard
in order to accomplish any outcomes in our life,
heal ourselves, make something happen, you know, whatever,
that we just release ourselves to allow him to do it.
And therefore, that's why it's called rest
is there's nothing left for us to do and to work for.
And they said, finally, when they let God,
when they stopped trying
and they actually released it to God,
not just simply stop trying, that won't work.
You have to actually give it to God
for him to do something with it.
Then suddenly things can start breaking off
and breaking through.
And anyway, you know, he has his own process
for every person.
I mean, like I just watched a lady be delivered
as a very oppressive demon that had been messing with her
for literally, I think her whole life, decades.
She was an SRA, you know, satanic ritual abuse victim.
And anyway, so I just watched her being delivered
miraculously on Sunday.
So, and that was because someone had a word for her
and then laid his hand on her and then boom, it came out.
So things can happen very dramatically
where it's not, you know, talking about rest
and all of that.
So my point is that it's,
God has his own journey for everyone.
And what that looks.
like and what different modalities or tools are that he uses to help them. So I'm not saying that
that everyone and that that everyone that learns about rest and whatever it just like fixes
everything and etc. It does have the power to fix everything but the thing is that God sometimes
uses other elements in our journey to help us as well but the point is that it can that shifting
into rest can start breaking things that other things weren't breaking and part of it and it's
because it changes the position from which we are approaching God in faith and that is the
basis of everything. That's the basis of our relationship with God is our faith in him.
In other words do we choose him and do we believe what he says or not because it says without faith
we can't please God. He just he's just like I just want to be believed that's all that I ask.
I don't ask for you to work for me. I don't ask for you to you know quote unquote you know obey me.
I ask for you to believe me. If you believe me then there's all of these things that come out
as a result including obey me etc. So I just wanted to give you that encouragement is there
are people that have walked this before you and the reason that it works that way is because
that is like I keep saying that is the gospel. If this is what God saved us into is to be able is
that is he saved us from the oppression and the slavery of having to work for our outcome because
God says that you know anything that you work for out of the flesh in other words anything that you
have to do on your own will only lead to death. So that's why we were slaves to death. There was no
other there was no other option for us and so God said but if if I buy you at a price then I buy you
from being a slave to death. You're no longer a slave to death and what that gives us the option
to do now is it gives us the option of being a son of God. He just takes care of things for us
and when the Lord does anything it's only done in spirit and in life. So anyway that's why that and
that's the gospel and so that's what that's what rest is and that's why when I talk about rest and
we can honestly use a lot of different words to describe what it is that I teach and use the word
as rest. So a lot of people sort of teach what I teach but they just teach it in a different way
and they just use different words. So it really doesn't matter what words we use what we have
to understand is we have to claim the power of the gospel. We have to claim what it is that God
truly did when he saved us and he says hey look you're no longer have to take care of yourself
you no longer have to strive and to fight and to sweat on your own in order for good
things to happen in your life in order for you to be healed whatever he said if you just believe me
and I say that I'll take care of you if you just believe me then I will take care of you.
I'll take care of you as a response to the fact that you believe me
then and then you know obviously you're at rest you're no longer having to strive and
sweat for it so that just learning about inclining the power of the gospel which is
just the fact that you know we're at rest and we no longer are slaves to our sweat that leads to
death that will automatically start breaking off things that other things other modalities
haven't been able to break off it's because it's changing the position from which we are
approaching our relationship with God which is Lord now I'm going to believe you and if I believe
you this is how I therefore will act because if we believe that God's going to take care of us
we're going to act very differently than if we believe that God won't take care of us
so everything changes when we when we actually choose to have faith and where so when I talk
a lot about rest one of the really big things that I talk about is faith how to have faith
how to choose the Lord etc because then we get to receive rest we get to receive the benefits
of our inheritance we have to believe it in order to receive it because he's already given it
so another encouraging thing is you're already there so you're already in rest it's just that
you that it's just that we don't know it we're not we don't believe it we're not aware of it whatever
And God, see, the thing is that if God gives us the gift, it's just like anything else when we
receive a, when we are given a gift, we have to receive it in order to, you know, to benefit from
it. So I've heard someone describe it like kind of like a, like an app on your phone. There's all
those apps that we have access to, but unless we use it, we don't get to benefit from it. It can
just sit on our phone all we want, you know, but we were given it, but if we don't interact with it,
if we don't, if we don't use it, we don't get to benefit from it. And it's the same thing between
us and the Lord. So he's given us everything that we need. He's given us including, including
healing, you know, inner healing, physical healing. He's given us, you know, peace and joy and love
and all of the fruits of the spirit. Those are gifts that he's given to us and we don't,
and we're not waiting for them. There's nothing left that we have to do in order to get it. We
already have it. We're already there, but if we're not agreeing with it, if we're not believing that
we have it, if we're not interacting with it, well, then our lives don't get to benefit from it.
They don't get to benefit from feeling peace or feeling joy or being patient or whatever
because it's just sitting there and we're not believing it and interacting with it. So anyway,
the point is that everything comes down to having a foundation down to the foundation
faith. But the thing is, like I said, you already have it. So you already have the victory.
You're already there. So there's not something that you're going to be obtaining. It's not
something that you don't have that you've got to try to bring towards you, or you've got to work
for, or that you've got to be enough for, or that you have to figure out. In fact, it's rest is your
default state. So it's who you naturally are as a new man, as a new creature, because your old man
died. We can act like it all we want and it doesn't make us the old man. You know, Paul talked
about that. He said, you know, why are you acting like the old man if he's dead? So we can act like
it all we want, but it doesn't make us the old man. We are the new man. We are new creature.
And that new man was created in Christ. Christ is uncorrupted, therefore, and he has nothing
corrupt within him. And therefore, if our new man is in Christ, and he can have nothing corrupt in
him, it means that there's nothing corrupt about us, which is the new man. And therefore, you're,
you're perfect. There's nothing wrong with you. You know, who it is that you are in your spirit
is that is the new man. That's the part of you that's joined with Christ. So you already are
those things. You already have the victory. So all, so like what I was saying, everything that
God talks about in the, in the Bible, specifically the new Testament, all of the things that it's
that we always took as, Oh, he's urging us to have this or to become this or to be more patient
or to be more loving or to whatever he was, those are actually things that we already are.
But he's inviting us to it in trying to mature us into knowing that that is who we are. So that
will start. So that will believe it and start acting like it. And when, so in order to access,
say for instance, rest or joy or, and all the other benefits, healing, et cetera,
we actually have to stop what we're currently doing. So that will return to our default state.
So you're not going to be working for, you know, your faith. You're not going to be working for
rest. You're not going to be working for love and joy and trying really hard. What I teach people
is to learn is to, is how to stop trying so that they just go to their default state because our,
our habit has been to always work really hard for everything in the world. And so we translate that
into how we interact in the kingdom. We think we have to work really hard for that too. We have to
think I'm not it yet because I don't see it in my life. So therefore I must work really hard to get
it because they know you don't see it in your life because you don't believe that I've already
given it to you. So basically what we have to do is if it's our default state and we're not reflecting
it, it means that we're resisting our default state. So think about your default state. It's
very natural, very normal. It's very natural because it's your default, right? So if you're
not acting normal and you're not acting natural, it means that you have to
put forth a lot of work and a lot of effort. In order to fight the natural. In order to
fight your fault, your default state, your default state is very natural, very easy,
very effortless. So if we're not acting like our default state and our natural state,
it means that we're in resistance, active resistance against it. That's why I keep
saying we have, I teach people how to stop trying because they're trying is resisting it.
So if you stop trying, then who it is that you naturally are comes out.
So anyway, I just say all of this to kind of, you know, encourage you that you've already won.
This is easy. This is very effortless. We're just not used to things being easy. We're not used to
things being effortless. So we don't know how to, how to receive something effortlessly
and easily. We keep trying for it. We keep, we, you know, we keep thinking that there's,
there's something that it requires of me. There's, there's something that it requires of me.
And we keep trying to give it. And God says, no, if you keep trying to give something
it or give something in order to get, you won't get it stopped. And so,
but it is so much a habit of our interaction with God is an internal emotional or spiritual,
or, you know, soulish striving that, that we don't know how to not do that. And that's actually
actively resisting God, because in order for us to receive a gift in the kingdom,
the world doesn't work like this. The kingdom of the world, the principles by which the world
works. I just don't, I don't mean just like society. I mean, actually the, the king, the,
the world and how the principles work in the world, you have to give something in order to
get something in the, in the kingdom. It's the opposite. If you give it, you can't get it.
I mean, sorry. In other words, if you give something in order to get something,
you can't get it because it has to be freely given and you have to freely receive it without
trying for it, but working for it without, you know, exerting any kind of effort towards it,
without trying in order for you to, in order for you to receive it. So a lot of people, you know,
I find even struggle to, I was telling my husband this yesterday, struggle in to even join the
rust intensive, because they're so it, because the people that it will help the most are people
that are so desperate. They're just, they're at their wit's end. They are burnt out spiritually,
emotionally, physically, mentally, whatever. They're just like, I'm just done. You know,
I've tried everything or whatever. It works the best for them because they're, they're finally
desperate enough to just really start risking what they have to risk in order to have faith
in the Lord. And what I was telling him is the hard part is that people are so, some people are
so burnt out because they're so used to trying for everything so hard that when they hear when
that even though they want rest and all of that, they think in order to have it,
they have to learn something more. They have to do something more. And therefore they have to
exert even more effort in order to heal. And it's the opposite in the rest intensive. It's all about
stopping the working, meaning like stopping the striving, stopping the exertion. That means
stopping activity. It doesn't mean stopping our job. It means stopping the sweating in it,
stopping the striving in it. And so anyway, that before we go on to you have,
what are your thoughts or questions? Yeah, I can recognize it. Some of it. And I think the Lord
has shown like some of it I am living in like the part where I'm sure that I live in faith,
but then there are some parts I don't. So like when you're talking, I'm like,
yeah, some of it it's familiar and something I think I'm living in something, but then
something's not. But then I'm like, what am I? I don't know what
am I living in? What am I not? And why am I not? Because what God has shown me is that because of
sickness, I've been kind of like gotten into control, like to control a lot of things. Yeah,
correct. And I've had to survive. So God revealed to me that I need to let go of control. So I
think that's part of it. Why I don't experience full freedom.
That's that I still control things. But then even so he's
shown me that and then I have the past year tried to really
deal with control issues in my life. But I and also when I read
the Bible, I see so much about suffering there. That I think
it's also a theological question for me, you know, to take up the
cross every day and to follow Jesus. There's like so much
about Paul even even just the other day I read about it. Yeah.
And I'm like, what am I not supposed to suffer? The sun and
also that God has used my suffering so much in other
people's. So then I think it's like, um, it's a partly
theologically, and it's partly like, oh, but I am living it,
but I'm not feeling the fruits of it. And yeah, yeah. When you
speak, it's like some of it is familiar, but why am I not? Why
am I still in anxiety? But then maybe I am trying too hard to
have faith and to live in it. Because when you said that, but
just have faith and do something, do it effortlessly.
For me, somehow, that is work.
Which part is what I think the fighting, like, for instance,
like someone says, the other day, someone said, Hey, can you
have a testimony at church? And then in myself, I don't want to
for many reasons. And I don't want to expose myself. I don't
know if I have what it takes, blah, blah, blah. But then I
feel the Spirit is leading me to do it. And also, I think it's
good. If you have something to bring to the church, you
shouldn't stop it. So then it's like, I feel like I should do
it. But it becomes such a big fight. And then I end up doing
it in faith. And I get the reward, because of course, when
it was the Spirit, people are blessed, and I'm blessed. But
then still, I go away from that experience with a lot of
striving, because to get to the place of surrender, took a lot
of stress. And for instance, like, during this rest, like
just like the figuring out if I should do it, if it's the right
timing, do I have time, financial aspect, all these
things, yeah, makes it like stressful leading up to it. And
then I decide to and then I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna do it.
Yeah. Yeah. But I, I have a lot of striving until I come to the
faith decision.
Correct. Yeah. So that's what I do is I teach people how to
shorten that time in which we struggle and work so hard. And
so we finally just do it. Because you understand what
helps us finally do it is not the struggle. It's when we
finally stop struggling. So we struggle, struggle, struggle,
struggle, because we don't want to do it. And so we're fighting,
fighting, fighting. Oh, but I know I shouldn't, shouldn't I?
And I think the Lord is calling me or I don't really know. Is
this me? Is this the Lord? And I'm just like, I just can't do
it. We finally give up. In other words, we finally let go. So
it's only with rest, it's only with effortlessness that we
finally choose the faith at the end. But because we've had so
much of this leading up to it, we think that this is what
enabled us to do that. This was the resistance. This is the part
of us that is resisting, resisting, resisting, and that
that we have to learn to stop resisting. And so you can
overtime, we learn how to, how to shorten that, how to shorten
that resistance, how to just kind of effortlessly let go. And
that, that, you know, that resistance in us is something
that we want to control things we want to protect ourselves, we
want to, you know, we want to provide for ourselves and all of
that. And we have to let go of that in order to have this and
and, but we don't want to let go of it. And finally, we just get
to the point, okay, look, in order to have that, I have to.
Yeah. And we decided to do it. But we go through this whole
struggle of I don't want to. Yeah, I do that all the time.
Yeah. So the faster that we that we just finally just release it
to the Lord, and we just actually let go, the shorter
that that struggle time is. Now, understand, that's because you're
human. This is what we're doing here on this earth, we're
actually the sons of God, you know, and according to Romans
eight, are manifesting themselves to creation as the
sons of God, we're showing them that that is who we are. And in
order to do that, we have to overcome the flesh, which is
what Jesus did. Even Jesus struggled, even Jesus
suffered, including in the garden of Gethsemane, you know, he, he understands what it's like for
the flesh and the spirit to war against one another. It even warred against one another in
Jesus. But the thing is that he never let the flesh win, which is why he never sinned, because
of course, sin is unbelief. And he just never, he just never gave into the flesh, but it doesn't
mean it didn't war. In fact, it had to war in him in order for him to overcome. That's how,
that's why what he did actually had, actually had the power that it did, you know, meaning
like the fact that he saved us and his blood shed on the cross actually had the power to
buy us and all of that is because he actually had something that he had to overcome. He was
born into a fleshly body that was subject to corruption. It was subject to death, even though
he himself never sinned. The body that he was born into because of the very principles and nature of
flesh and of creation, you know, it, it was something that is in resistance against the
spirit. And so what he had to do is he had to choose, you know, between the spirit and the
flesh. He always has to choose the spirit when he chooses the spirit, it transformed the flesh.
And so when he finally died and then he rose again, his body was transformed and even his body
became a spiritual body. It says, you know, Paul talked about, and yet, even though it was a
spiritual body, it was, it was, it could, it was still a body. In other words, it could still eat.
He could still walk. It could still do the things that a body does. And yet it had been, it had,
he had overcome the flesh. In other words, he'd overcome the part of the body that had been
subject to corruption. So that now it was still a body just like Adam was born into with and created
into a body before the fall. There's nothing wrong with our bodies. They're not simple. They're not,
they're not a problem, but they are subject to corruption until we overcome. And I'm just using
the body as an example, because it's also the soul, you know, a lot of it, you know, a lot of
our emotions or whatever are in our decisions are a result of the fact that we're, that we're at war,
that aspect of ourselves, our soul and our body are at war against the spirit aspect of ourselves.
Our spirit believes God, our spirits, one with God, our spirit, sinning man. And it is at war
with our soul and our body. You know, they struggle against one another because our soul
and our body does not trust God and does not trust the spirit, does not think that they're safe
with them. And so what our soul and our body are, and that, that, that, that resistance that I was
talking about, you know, that I want to preserve myself. I want to protect myself. I want to,
I need, I need to, I need the control in order to do that. And that's your soul and your,
and your body doing that. That's the flesh. And what we finally have to choose is no,
I'm going to release myself to the, to be subject to the spirit, to be subject to the Lord
and rely on him to protect and provide for me, meaning that I'm giving up my right to do it to
myself for myself. But until we give up that struggle, you know, we're, it, it's gonna,
it feels, it feels very painful and we're in this constant, you know, state of resistance.
And I said, that's what that is. So my point in going into all of that is to kind of explain
that is the normal part of human existence. Even Jesus did it. In fact, that's why Jesus did it.
As he said, this is how to go through it. You know, you, you're going to have these experiences,
just like Jesus had the experience or, you know, whenever he asked something of us, he always
shows us as an example. He always goes through it first and actually lives it first. So he said,
Hey, look, I'm going to live this life for you. And I'm going to show you, these are the things
that you're going to run into. This is how it's going to feel. And this is the, this is the war
that you fight within yourself. But I'm telling you by example, this is the choice that you need
to make. And I will, and I myself will show you that you can make that choice by me having the
victory and making that choice. And so you're not subject to choosing what your flesh wants you to
do. God says that it is actually possible. And he proved this by actually doing it for your,
your soul, sorry, your soul, your spirit to have the victory and for you to always choose to believe
God instead. But yeah, that struggle, that suffering, all of that is the fact that we
are born into a, a creation that is currently subjected to frustration. Like it mentioned.
in Romans 8 it's currently subjected to death not just physical death but death is in lack
is in separation etc and God says you no longer have to live like that if you choose the higher
thing if you choose the lower thing and then you're just going to live like that sometimes
you don't know like sometimes it's easy you know what God's telling you to do you just fight him
anyways yeah but then sometimes you just don't know don't know what you don't know what to do
like what is the spirit saying like and yeah but then that is oh yeah well part of that is
you're talking about the things when you know it already you kind of know in your heart what
you're supposed to do and then you go through that striving and fight anyways to get to the decision
yeah well yeah sort of that time sort of yeah so one of the things though is that sometimes
I don't know why I'm struggling why I'm fighting why I'm anxious whatever and we'll get to this
that I think it's actually the very last session is I talk about I think it's the last session
seven that I talk about the the tools that people can use to help them to help them
shift from unrest into rest and incent and you sometimes don't know what it is that you're
in a manner of speaking sometimes you don't know what it is that you're choosing you just
know that you're anxious you just know that you're stressed and you don't know why you're
stressed yeah you're just like look I'm in a perfectly safe situation why on earth am I anxious
why on earth am I stressed about this and then sometimes you do know why you're stressed but a
lot of times you don't there's still a way to not live there's still a way to release that anxiety
and to release that stress without knowing what triggered it and like what exactly you're supposed
to be quote unquote believing instead you know you don't know what it is that you're believing
that's gotten you anxious and stressed in the first place so that's one of the things that I
talk about but just just just really quickly one of the things that I explain to people is
sometimes people wonder well how do I know if I'm in unrest I'm like well you look for negative
negative experience feelings kind of like anything that brings a heaviness inside
kind of like a feeling of oppression or like a wet blanket or you know like the anxiety or stress
or etc you know fear a heavy anger not like righteous anger but you know a heavy anger
or whatever and if it's just negative and heavy and weighing then those are things you know those
are evidences of the fact that we're in unrest and then we can just know okay well there's something
about you I don't know what it is actually but something about you that I'm not believing
because that's what unrest is unrest is um is a state in which we're not believing God
about something which God says is a sin so anyway we're not believing God about something and that's
why we're stressed and anxious etc so it's like okay then then Lord I don't know what it is
specifically that I'm supposed to be believing about you that I'm not but I do know generally
some things or that I choose that I'm that you protect me I choose that you are my protector
that you are my provider that you are good that you are loved that you're whatever that God is who
he says that he is and I choose that and I don't know why I'm stressed I don't know why I'm anxious
but and this is one of the things that I teach people to do and we'll be talking about this is
teach people to just let go of the stress and to let go of the anxiety and and it just sounds
really easy when we're sitting here talking about it and it's very difficult to do sometimes
because we don't know how we're holding on to it so we don't know how to let go of it
but one of the things that um that I try to help walk people through is how to recognize or
help kind of anchor how how would I word that how people can kind of
recognize that they're holding on to something so that they can start to you know unfurl their
fingers and start to let it go um and but anyway there is a way to actually you can actually do
that and choose God without having to have something necessarily specific that you're
thinking oh I'm anxious about this and I'm not believing this about God there are some
general things about God that if we're anxious we're not
believing. We're not believing that we're safe. We're not believing that we're being provided for,
you know, or whatever. And it means that we're not trusting God for those things. And so we
just have to choose that he is who he says that he is to the degree he says he is that,
and that we are who he says that we are. And, and we just have to choose that at a very basic level.
And I don't even have to get specific about it in order for me to, for that anxiety and that
stress to release. And one more thing that I wanted to say as an encouragement is you were
talking about whether it be about this or whether it be about the fact that you said, well, I am in
faith in some areas and not in faith in another. That's fine. That's just all part of it. Because
remember that we're just like in the physical, it's the same thing in the spiritual in our
relationship with the Lord is we are physically, we're born as babies. We're not born 35 or 65
or whatever. We don't know all of the things for the 35 or 65 year old knows we can't coordinate
our own body or even eat solid foods when we're first born. And there's nothing wrong with us.
It's okay for a baby to be a baby. In fact, it's important for a baby to go through this
process of development where he learns different things at different stages, and he's not equipped
to be able to handle the things that a 34 year old is learning in order to become a 35 year old.
A baby is not equipped to be able to handle that yet. So God doesn't hold it accountable for that.
And it's the same thing with us in the Lord and the Spirit is whatever age that we are in the
Spirit, and who knows what that is, whatever age that we are in the Spirit, it's okay to be that
age. God didn't create us, whether as babies in the physical or as Christians in the spiritual,
as baby Christians that eventually grow up to be like teenagers in our relationship and fathers
in our Lord and all that. He didn't create us in a state of condemnation with him where we're not
enough and where he's just, he only looks at us as is, oh, there's something wrong with you until
you finally get to be this age. You're bad in my eyes until, and it's just not the case. He's like,
no, this is what you're supposed to be right now. It's the way that I created it. And I didn't
create a process for you to go through that puts you in condemnation with me and from me,
where I say that you're sinful and bad and wrong and not where you're supposed to be. And you're
always supposed to be somewhere else until you're 35. And then you're finally where you're supposed
to be. It's the same thing in the Spirit. You're not supposed to know everything.
You're not supposed to know how to do it all. God doesn't expect you to have to go into every
situation and know fully how to have faith and how to do this thing and how to have relationship
with him and how to interact with him and who he is. He doesn't expect that. That is part of what
he delights in is the whole development of all of that. So God's purpose for you isn't to get
somewhere. It's not particular destination. It's not a particular level of spiritual maturity.
It's not even to overcome your body or your emotions or your flesh or anything like that.
That is secondary because God created you. It says in Ephesians 1.4, God chose us in him before the
creation of the world. So you were created for relationship with him. And I think you're going
to talk about that in session two. You're created for relationship with him
before creation, before God ever made the world. God created the world in order to show
our relationship with him in a physical form. What is our relationship that already exists
in heaven? What does that look like in a physical form? But the focus isn't the physical form. The
focus is our relationship with the Lord. And God just wants that to be developed.
He never expects us to, he doesn't condemn us for not being somewhere yet,
because the whole point is the fact that we're learning how to relate to him and that we're
developing the relationship. That's the point. The point is the journey. The point is enjoying him
and him enjoying us. And God's just like, hey, but we're heading in this direction where you're
becoming more mature, where you become more intimate with me, et cetera. See, God, I believe,
is like the universe, which I believe that he pictured the universe in such a way where, you
know, it says the universe is always expanding.
to say that the universe is always expanding.
I believe that God put that into reality
as a picture to us of the fact that he's always expanding.
In other words, God's infinite.
And as mind boggling as it is,
I think that there's an aspect in which he's like,
almost like it's always expanding
and always getting bigger or whatever.
And therefore we're never gonna get to the end of him.
So he doesn't hold us in condemnation
against something that we can't even never do
because he's always expanding.
We're never gonna get to the end.
So there's no destination that we're going towards.
We're just in a direction of developing closer
and more intimate relationship with him.
So I say that so that we release ourselves,
so that we understand that God has released us
from shame and condemnation
of being wherever it is that we are in our relationship.
God's just like, yeah, but we're learning,
and you're learning more about me
and you're learning how to have more faith in me, et cetera.
So I believe that we're out of time.
So I just wanted to leave you with this.
I would, and this is actually the first thing
of the practical tools that I teach people
about how to shift into rest.
And the very first thing that I recommend that people do
is to release themselves of shame and condemnation.
So if they are struggling with like anxiety
or stress or whatever,
and, or even if they're feeling ill,
regardless of what it is,
regardless of the negative experience that they're having,
that they focus first on releasing themselves
from shame or condemnation.
To understand-
Do you say it out loud, kind of?
Or like how do you do that?
Like-
Just, no, you don't have to do it out loud.
You just do it.
See, a lot of times what we're doing
is we're identifying with,
we're believing that the experience that we're having
is saying something about us.
That there's something wrong with me,
or I'm not mature enough,
or God isn't pleased with me,
or I'm not protected, I'm not provided for,
or I don't know, just, you know, whatever.
Or if we're experiencing some physical ailment
that, again, there's something wrong with who I am.
And we have to disassociate our identity
and our value from the experience that we're having,
and even the choice that our flesh is making,
because you are not the choices that your flesh makes.
So if you are in unbelief in an area,
that is not who you are.
Who you are is in your spirit, man,
which is the new man, which is perfect, which is in Christ.
That's who you are.
You have the flesh, you have a soul in your body,
but the part of you that's your identity,
that's who it is that you are,
it has to be seated somewhere.
And it's seated in your spirit
because that was created first.
You know, Ephesians 1, 4,
God chose this in him before the creation of the world.
Who you are is your spirit,
not meaning like your actual identity.
And God says that that identity is in him,
and he can't have anything corrupted within him,
which makes you perfect.
And it says in James, even,
it says, anyone who was born of God,
okay, let me back up.
James talks, Jesus talks to Nicodemus,
and he says, that which is born of flesh is flesh,
that which is born of, that which is,
that which is born of spirit is spirit.
So that means that our spirit was born of God's spirit.
We're not God or anything, but we're born of his spirit.
So that is, so your spirit is born of God.
Your spirit is perfect.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It literally has, and it mentions in James,
that anyone who is born of God,
for anyone who is born of God,
it is impossible for him to sin.
It says that in James.
It depends on the translation as to what word they use,
and certain translations say the word impossible.
Other ones say things like cannot sin or whatever.
But so it's impossible to sin, cannot sin, whatever.
It's talking about your spirit
because it's the new man who's in Christ,
and Christ can't have anything corrupted within him,
therefore it can't have any sin in him.
And if you're in him, it means that you don't sin.
Who you are is in your spirit.
So if your flesh, your soul, or your body,
that your identity is not seated in those places,
but you still have it.
It's still part of you.
It's your soul and your body.
If it is an unbelief, and if you're acting in unbelief,
you, who you are.
or your identity is not being touched by your unbelief.
Who you are always believed God.
So I say that, that's in order for us to understand
when we're claiming God says,
there is therefore no condemnation
for those who are in Christ Jesus.
That's why he can say it,
because who you are is your spirit,
no matter what your flesh does.
So release yourself from condemnation
and know that even if you are even intentionally sinning
in some way, sure, we shouldn't be doing that,
but that's not the discussion we're having right now.
Even if you're doing it,
how do you release yourself from condemnation?
If you were actually and intentionally doing something,
or if you just did something,
how do you release yourself from condemnation?
Yes, you're still doing it,
but who you are, it's not affecting your identity.
And so anyway, it means that that's an aspect
of your flesh you haven't overcome yet.
And you're not currently overcoming
because you're intentionally sinning,
but who you are is not any less perfect
than it was before you sinned.
That aspect of you is always perfect
and always will be because it's unified with Christ.
So that is releasing yourself from shame and condemnation.
And it is shocking that even when you're intentionally
sinning or someone does something to you and hurts you,
and you're like, what on earth did I do to deserve that?
What must that be saying about me?
All of those things, we can,
even regardless of the situation that we're in,
we can, if we choose,
we can release ourselves from shame and condemnation
if we choose.
Okay, no, regardless of the flesh,
who it is that I am has never changed.
And who it is that I am is perfect
and is uncorrupted by sin.
My flesh is, but not who I am and who I am as spirit.
So release yourself from shame and condemnation.
And I'm serious that so very often, not all the time,
which is why I talk about some other tools
that people can use,
but so very often that anxiety and that stress
will just lift because there are some way,
even if it's in physical, even if we're in physical pain,
there is some way in which we take on a condemnation
of our very identity and we associate it with it.
And we get very discouraged, et cetera,
because we think that somehow God's abandoned
who it is that we are,
or there's something wrong with us,
or we're not enough or whatever.
It's really weird how we associate things like that,
or even things that happened to us
as saying something about who we are.
So we have to learn to disassociate that
and to choose that we are who God says that we are.
And he says that we're spirit.
He says that we're the new man.
He says that we're perfect.
So that's what I would encourage you in
to focus on this coming week is.
Yeah, I will.
Just the no shame and no condemnation.
And I mean, if you're paying attention,
you will be shocked at how often
you'll have to do it throughout the day
because we have such a strong tendency
towards shame and condemnation.
In fact, we typically use shame
to motivate us throughout the day.
Yeah.
We use it to work harder.
We use it to try harder.
We use it to read our Bible is shame.
Yeah.
We've got to release ourselves from shame.
The more you release yourself from shame,
the more you will naturally follow God,
the more you'll naturally obey him,
and the easier it'll be to have faith.
Shame is active resistance against our faith.
So anyway.
Good, thank you.
You're welcome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, well, you let me know in the meantime
if anything comes up, otherwise I'll see you next week.
But like I said, I'm here to actually help people
live the thing, not learn it and not learn how to do it,
but actually live it.
So during this time, so you just reach out
if you have any questions.
I will.
And so, and I can see this recording.
Yes, it's recorded.
So I always record it so that not only I have it,
but then also if anybody needs the recording,
I can always send it to them.
So remember that that's part of what it is that you have
is this recording is going to go up on that page.
Yeah.
Only you will see it.
But my point is that that's how you can access it
is through that page.
Through which page?
The kingdom, the kingdom,
the rest intensive membership page on the website.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you remember when you go to watch the session?
Yeah.
Because there's one.
I cannot be part of the group, right?
Correct.
Correct. But this is the membership page. This is on the website.
So remember, if you go to my website, interhiv.rest,
and you go to Rest Intensive Program at the top,
there will be a drop down.
And one of the things is Rest Intensive Members.
Yes, okay, I'm there.
And then this will be uploaded there.
Yeah, that's the page. Yes.
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah. So that is where you can watch the videos.
And then you'll notice that there's the transformation sessions at the
bottom. And then when I,
when I am able to get these recorded sessions downloaded,
I'll upload them there.
So that's your private page to be able to see that.
Perfect.
Yeah.
That's great.
The sessions will appear when, when it's time.
So they're always going to appear, you know, like I'll be able to,
I'll give you access to the second session.
Now that you've watched the first and then you have an opportunity to
watch that before, you know, next week, et cetera.
And then I'll be uploading this transformation session for you to be
able to see that as well.
Sounds great. Yeah. Okay.
All right.
Well, like I said, you reach out if you have any questions.
I will.
And see you next week.
All right. Good to talk to you. Yeah. You too.
Bye.