Okay.
Hello. Hi.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good. How are you?
I seriously need to work on my lighting.
On your what?
My lighting.
Oh,
Yeah.
I'm doing all right.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry.
You had sent me a message and I didn't read the message.
Oh,
It wasn't anything important.
Okay.
I will. Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
Okay.
You hadn't like asked a question or something.
Yeah, no, no, no.
Yeah.
Have you been.
I've been, I think.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'm going to break it down.
I've had some really good experiences.
And some challenging ones.
I had two really, really good experiences.
One of them was.
That.
I'm a teacher in Chinese and English.
Oh, okay.
And.
I did a big mistake.
I was on the bus on my phone and someone heard it.
Pupils.
Like I.
Pupils.
Oh, you're.
Oh, my people.
Yeah.
And it became kind of a big deal where they went into kind of
attacking.
And it was a mistake. I did a mistake and.
And.
Before a mistake like that would have gotten me.
I don't know, devastated.
Yeah.
And just to really like thrown off and just like,
like horrible and remorseful and just like so much condemnation and
guilt.
And then I could tell, you know, when you hear someone.
And you realize you've done a big mistake.
Yeah.
But then.
I just kind of was like,
All right.
I was able to just stay in it.
And not run away from my responsibility,
not kind of a defend myself.
But kind of just take it in without going into deep condemnation.
Yeah.
And that was, that was a big thing.
And that's where at the same time I wasn't in.
Going.
They were kind of attacking me, which is.
Thing.
But I.
Kind of let the attack fall off.
Because I realized I hadn't, it was a mistake,
but I knew that it's not at that. It was a mistake.
But I knew that.
I knew that it was a mistake.
And I knew that I was not.
Visible in attacking me.
So I was even those, they,
they saw it unclearly and they attacked me. I.
I didn't go into condemnation.
And I just heard them out and thought about it and prayed about it.
And I didn't go into.
Guilt.
And I just realized, okay, I just need to say.
I did a mistake. I hope, can you forgive me?
I didn't want you to trust me.
I didn't mean any harm and yeah.
And then I could feel, and then the next morning.
Some parents had gotten involved and have been writing emails to the
teachers and the teachers were coming to me.
So kind of like.
It was blowing up a little bit.
But then I.
I, and then I could feel.
I could feel it.
And I didn't go into condemnation,
but then I just asked the parent to parent to pray.
And then I went to the classroom.
Eight 28 students.
And just ask for forgiveness.
And we talked about mistakes and I, and the whole room changed.
Like everything changed.
Yeah.
Everything they received my.
Yeah.
And then I was able to ask them questions. Like,
why would you attack me? I did something wrong.
But your response is attacking.
You know, so we got like anything from like.
The talk about making mistakes too.
How do you respond when someone does a mistake?
Like, why don't you trust me? Like if you trusted me, you wouldn't.
Yeah.
So.
I.
I would, I have that experience.
it's very good yeah i'm like oh my gosh yeah it was really incredible it's hard to uh it's hard
to think like that in the moment meaning like make a choice especially when you're being attacked
especially when things are public in other words other people know and when you have done a mistake
it's like you're in the wrong that you haven't even met your own standard so yeah yeah you're
having your own standard it's public and then people are attacking you for it that is extremely
difficult in a situation like that to choose no i know that is huge and you did it it's huge
it's like that is huge yeah and some of the teachers were starting to question me i felt
but the way i handled it and kind of like i didn't go into like oh i'm so horrible i did
i was kind of like yes it was a mistake i'm gonna say that i'm sorry uh but i uh but then i kind of
just like i kind of stood in it like i was me i was i was um i was standing i like i never crumbled
under under the pressure and like people start perception because they like me and then you can
feel them yes it's changing of you like can we really trust her and then i'm like yes you can
trust me even when i do mistakes yeah correct yeah so that was like so amazing and then uh
i told you that i had my heart broken by a man which is uh has been it's a very it's a long
story but my heart was has totally been broken and i felt like i needed to leave the church i
asked for godly counsel and everyone around me were like it's too difficult the whole situation
he's the youth he's the um he speaks in church he's the worship leader he's always on stage it's
like lots of things that makes it difficult to continue so i decided the healthiest thing was
to leave and then right before i was going to leave i felt the lord tell me i want you to go
through it and i was like okay i really don't want to i don't really don't think that's healthy
but if you want that i will do it so i decided to continue in the church and to go through it
but obviously it's been very hard and i felt the victory for doing it but also a lot of pain
and because he is so public being the worship leader and the speaker and it's a small church
and we used to be good friends and everything and then on this sunday and so what i've been
i've been coming late to church like after worship uh-huh but then this sunday i'm like okay i'm
gonna go to worship this sunday even though he leads and i don't know if he's gonna speak or
what he's gonna do and then i came and uh it was just incredible he was leading worship for a long
time and for the first time what happened was that i i received him it was just so like like
before i've been coming to church and you're protecting yourself or asking god to protect
you and there's like this resistance yeah because you've been hurt yeah but this time it's like i'm
still hurt i'm still heartbroken but i'm allowing you to be just you and i receive your worship
leading i wish to see your voice you say speaking over the church i receive it i'm blessed by your
beautiful voice i was like oh my gosh this is a miracle i know the lord changes the lord
transforms yeah it's incredible just like feeling like i i nothing has really changed in the
situation i still am hurt yeah but i allow but i didn't let the enemy take me away from the church
or not being able to be blessed by what he's actually doing even though he hurt me it's it's
not i don't know how i was able to just receive him all of him without thinking oh no he likes me
or now this is gonna happen just like no it's not gonna happen we're not gonna be together
and i am hurt but i still receive all of you wasn't it crazy huge yes but that that's what
it's like that's what it's like to be one with christ where you are seeing someone through
christ's eyes and you're interacting with them because you have no need to offer it to to feel
separated and alone is if you have to protect yourself you're in the being that'll protect you
and then if you as long as you know that you're protected that you're safe that you have
of what it is that you need, you can see other people,
the way that Christ sees them,
interact with them like that,
instead of closing off, instead of self-protecting
or whatever.
It's a totally different way to reflect.
That's wonderful.
I'm so excited for you.
Yeah, that's huge.
Yeah.
So, and then what were your challenges?
My challenges has been more that I feel like
I'm not being able to let go of stress
during the day and during my work.
And I, like a lot of the time I'm in stress or pain.
And I know some of the things
because I have gone to therapy for many years
and I have gone for healing and prayer.
It is, I don't know.
It's, I don't even know how to explain it.
It's just, it's just pain and stress.
And I know some of it comes from my first living years
that I haven't been able to attach through my first years.
So it would affect, it affected my brain.
And I know that I have a attachment disorder.
So, and I know that I go into, I don't know,
you cringe or you, I don't know,
there's nothing that gets me out of that.
Do you know about the regulation window?
Like where you regulate yourself within?
It's a psychological term.
I very often is outside of it
where you are in pain or in stress or in, yeah.
And I, like, for instance,
if I come home after a day at work and it's been a hard day,
I can't lay on the couch and just rest.
I'm in, I'm kind of in pain or in stress
and just a lot of mental and confusion in my mind
that's allowing me from coming into rest.
And through the day, like for instance, on Monday, yesterday,
I had, I have very busy days on Monday.
And then I can just tell during the day
that I'm not in rest and I don't know how to get there.
And even if I take five minutes break
and go to the bathroom and kind of like, okay, breathe.
It's like, I can't seem to be able to go shift into rest.
So then I come home and I'm totally exhausted
and I lay on the couch
and I'm not able to rest there either.
So what helps is that I always need to distract myself,
but it's sometimes it feels like
I shouldn't have to always distract myself from pain.
I don't know, I should be able to just, I don't know.
Yeah.
No, no, you're right.
We shouldn't distract ourselves from pain.
We should be able to move through it
to just let the thing go.
Yeah.
We don't have to live like that in other words.
And so-
The thing is that if you distract yourself,
I said like, oh, you go for a run or you go for a walk
or you do something, it helps.
But then what about those times
where you're not able to do that?
Right.
And that's where I am at times.
I get so tired or that I can't distract myself
and then I just end up in pain and stress.
Yes.
And then also those things are coping mechanisms
is simply ignoring it and not dealing with it.
So it's still there.
So it's still gonna come up.
Yeah.
It's just kind of like, you know,
putting a bandaid on the symptom
but not dealing with the root.
And therefore you're always,
therefore it makes our life about managing our pain.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, instead of living a fuller life.
And that means that a lot of our,
that means that all of our energy is going towards,
going towards, like I said, managing our pain
as opposed to moving forward into the future,
being filled and enriched by the Lord
in other things and other dreams
and living a bigger, fuller, richer life or whatever.
And we can't bring the same level of power
to other, to the world and to our own,
our own selves, you know, our own flesh.
If we're always in this fight or flight mode
where we're managing the fact that our soul
is just simply scared, really.
And because, let's see,
you said that you watched through session four, right?
But I have watched them this summer.
All of them.
Okay.
So you remember the spirit, soul and body topic.
Okay.
The three rounds that my friend got as a,
at kind of like a picture of, you know, what our interactions, you know, in life
look like is kind of like a spirit realm, soul realm, and the body realm.
And so soul and our body are our flesh.
And what we're doing here on earth is our, our identity is in our spirit.
It's not in our soul or our body.
Yes, we are our soul and our body.
And the fact that it's, we're unified as spirit, soul, and body, but the place
where our identity is seated is in our spirit, which was created first, you
know, and it says that in Ephesians one, four, God chose us in him before the
creation of the world, et cetera.
Anyway, so that aspect of us was created first and it was created in
order to have relationship with him.
So what we were here doing here on earth is before the fall, God created Adam.
And so therefore there was some kind of a purpose in expanding Adam from spirit
to give him flesh and put him here on this earth that didn't have anything to
do with sin, because all of that happened before Adam ever sinned and who knows
how long he was here before he sent.
I mean, it could have been thousands of years.
I don't know.
You know?
So in other words, there was some purpose for it.
So, and that was to express God and us in the Lord together, who it is that we
are together with the Lord into the visible realm, into creation, and then
for us to also have a kingdom in which we are having dominion over, just like,
you know, Adam was given dominion over creation, that is our kingdom to have
dominion over, in other words, to express kindness, protection, love, provision
for, in the same way that God provides as a king for his kingdom and that he
provides us with, so he's our father and we're supposed to look like our father.
So if our father's a good king in his kingdom, he gave us the kingdom to be,
to express those same characteristics in our kingdom, and that's what we're doing
here, but then when Adam fell and he was like, no, no, no, I'm not going to rely
on the Lord, you know, I, what if God's holding out on me?
I want to know the difference between good and evil, because before he, before
they ate the fruit, they didn't know the difference and they were perfect and
they were fine and they ruled righteously.
Older came in, they ruled creation and had dominion over it, took care of it
righteously, so they're apparently, we didn't have to know the difference
between good and evil, so anyway, but now that they knew the difference and
whatever, God's just like, well, you're choosing to rely on yourself, you know,
on what it is that you know, on the things basically outside of you to be
sourced by like knowledge, principles, you know, of good and evil, you know,
whatever things outside of you in order to give you direction, in order to give
you, you know, uh, in order to source and determine the outcomes that you get in
life, it's like, okay, what do I learn so that I can plug it into a formula and
get a particular result as opposed to what God wants us to do, which is to rely
on him and to rely on our connect on the fact that we're unified with him and we
need to be expressing his spirit and it's his spirit that'll create the result in
our lives, but that requires that we give up control and that sometimes we don't
know what's going on, but we're not looking at this arbitrary list of do's
and don'ts and rights and wrongs and shoulds and shouldn'ts and goods and
evils outside of us, these principles outside of us, instead we're relying on
the character of the Lord by which we live.
So anyway, that's what it is that we're being called to shift to, but because of,
because of, uh, uh, because of the choice that not only Adam made, but that we
continue to make our flesh, the soul and the body is subject to corruption.
It's subject to death.
And our spirit now is needing to come in and, and overcome the flesh.
In other words, overcome the aspect of our flesh that is subject to corruption.
So we're not going to obliterate our flesh.
We're not going to obliterate, obliterate, meaning like, uh, kind of like, uh,
a shift into non-existence like non-exist.
So it's more than just killing it.
It's as if like, boom, it doesn't exist anymore, you know?
Um, and, uh, so that's not what we're doing with our flesh.
What we're doing is we're transforming it from being subject, subject to
corruption and fear of God and not believing God, et cetera, we're transitioning.
it into spirit so that it believes its father. It feels protected by its father. It chooses
to believe its father, etc. And so that's what it is that we're doing. So my point is that
our process throughout our day is that we are being presented with, and I don't mean that
God's just put us through this. It just puts us through one big test all day. I don't mean it like
that. I mean that just by the very nature of the fact that the world operates in the way
that it does, we wake up every day into a world in which we're always being presented
with some aspect of flesh, ourselves, or creation outside of us, that doesn't believe God. And we
have to come in in our spirit and choose a higher power, a higher authority, a higher truth,
and overcome the flesh by choosing to believe God instead of what our flesh is saying, where
we're not protected, we're not provided for, you know, I have to figure all of this stuff out,
and if I don't figure it out on my own, well then, you know, then there's the word that I'm looking
for, but that, you know, I'm not safe, etc. And we have to choose no matter what this fleshly world
manifests, no matter what it looks like, that's not the truth. The truth is I am protected,
I am provided for, etc. And by choosing this over this, this will be overcome. In other words,
it will transform into spirit because we're choosing a higher truth. So the higher truth
will perform a miracle, and it will supersede and be more powerful than the world's truth that no,
you're not protected, and you've got to do it all on your own, etc. And so then God will come in,
and you're allowing him to protect you, him to provide for you, him to create the results in
your life. And that proves to creation because you made a higher choice, that because you made
the higher choice, and then God comes in and starts protecting and providing for you, etc.
You prove to creation that God is true, not in that you are always provided for and that you're
always protected, etc. And not what the world is saying. That's what it is that we're doing. So,
so all of this stress that you're experiencing, etc. is this feeling is this belief in our flesh,
that we are not safe, that we're not being provided for, that there's something that we're
needing, there's something that we have to do, there's something that's being required of us,
we're not enough, I've got to figure it out, I've got to work harder, I've got to catch up,
I've got to keep up, I've got to do it right. In other words, we feel that there is some,
uh, we're carrying the burden, the weight, and the responsibility of getting results in all of
these areas of our lives, because we believe that we're that, that the source of actually those
being successful is us. It's based on whether on us being wise enough to figure out the situations,
and be able to apply the right formula in order to get a successful result, that everything's
dependent on us. I'm always thinking, what am I going to do now? Like, let me stress again,
what did I do wrong? What am I going to do? Oh, and maybe I should have done that. But actually,
I'm too tired to do it. And then you feel guilty. Because if you just did this, you feel better,
but then you don't do it. And it's like, what am I doing? Yeah, if we think that we are,
are sourcing the results, and then we are feeling that we're, then we're always walking around
feeling that we carry this heavy responsibility. And that's, we weren't created to carry that
responsibility. That, in other words, that weight, there's nothing. Yeah, wait, that is if
everything depends on us, when really God says, No, I want you to depend on me. And then I just
in the now that I'm now that you've given it to me to take care of, you just get to enjoy the
process, you get to now enjoy going to work, enjoy interacting with your students, enjoy problem
solving, because you are choosing that the outcome of all these things that you're doing
is going to be created by the Lord, you've given it up to the Lord.
And now you're just enjoying the process of developing your relationship with God by just
doing things, by just having a relationship with your student, by getting to problem solve and
figure out some really cool solution that God has put into the principles of education or the
principles of psychology and how kids, you know, think and whatever. And then to see what aspect
of creation that you and God want to partner with y'all to, um, as part of the, as part of
the journey towards whatever's going to happen, like the results, the outcome or whatever.
And so now it's fun. Now that now that the outcome isn't determined by your actions,
it's determined by the fact that God is good. It's determined by the fact that God is provider
and protector for all of creation, for you, for those kids, et cetera. That is what is going to
determine the outcome. And anyway, so what are, what are your thoughts? Does this making some
sense or do you have any questions? Yeah. Uh, I think some of it is like,
I need to kind of like, I understand some of it, maybe not all of it. Um, but I think I'm
grasping what you're saying, like from where Adam originally was before the fall, before he used to,
he took control. Um, and it reminds me of, you know, the scriptures that says that we're going
to rule with God, you know, like the king, the kingdom that's coming, that we're going to be
sent rulers and governors over places. And it's actually the kingdom. And you kind of think of
it's something happening in heaven, but I'm realizing that it's something that can start now.
And, um, uh, and I just realized that I'm starting to grasp this, but I, I'm not fully
understanding it, but I'm just like little scriptures come to mind or like things that
happened or like experiences where I've had, where I feel like I am really walking in the spirit and
seeing it happening. But then I like the thing, the question that I've had when I watched your
teaching is that I identify with some of your story. Um, and, uh, some of the pain that you
were in and like, for you, it sounds like it was like a very, like before and after, like you say,
you were even saved, you know, you got the gospel when you were past 30. For me, the thing is that
I don't, that I struggle to comprehend is that I feel like, um, in a way it's a before and after
and another, it's not like, I feel like God has shown me very deep things over the past years.
Yeah. But I'm not fully living it. And now I'm just seeing another layer of it or seeing the
areas where I'm not living by the spirit. Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm kind of just like,
and also I think why, but if God really has shown me so many things over the years,
why am I still in so much pain? I'm trying to figure out where is it that I've been
having a revelation from God and where is it that I have been in the dark or the things that I'm
learning now that I'm seeing for the first time. And I'm not, I'm trying to figure out where I'm
at. And, um, so what's from God? Huh? Yeah, no, just, uh, yeah. Well, what I was going to say
is that the fastest, that the whole, all of this is about having a relationship with God
and living out of relationship as opposed to living out of, okay, God, now,
what do you want me to do? Or now how do I, even in a manner of speaking, Lord, how do I now
interact with you? What do you require of me? How should I position myself? You know, trying to
figure all, we can't actually figure out how to live in rest. Well, maybe I am, maybe I'm trying
to figure it out. Yes. What have I been wrong? What is right? What is wrong? I'm still a little
bit in the figuring out and analyzing and yeah, it's like, it's the tree. It's the knowledge of
the tree. It's the knowledge of good and evil.
It's the, because the tree is the good and evil tree.
It's the knowledge of good and evil.
We're trying to use knowledge and figuring it out
in order to do the right thing and avoid the wrong one.
Yeah.
And so what we have to realize is that as an old wine stem
and so that could only hold the old wine.
So if God is saying, hey, I have a new wine
to give you a new revelation,
that old wine stem can't hold the new wine.
And so the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
can't help you, in other words,
knowledge or figuring it out,
can't help us in transitioning to the new revelation
that God is trying to reveal to us.
Does that make sense?
Yes, it makes sense.
I'm trying to use the old system
to understand the new things.
Correct, that we've been relying on our knowledge.
We've been relying on trying to figure it out.
And so one of the ladies that I've worked with,
I literally worked with her for months
because she was struggling so much to get it.
And finally, there were a couple of different things
that she did that really helped her.
And one of the things is that she realized
is that I told her, I said, okay, you know what to do,
but you keep trying to figure out how to avoid doing it.
So you're just, you're trying to figure out
through your mind how to make all of this easier
so that the thing that you actually have to do
in submitting yourself to the Lord can be avoided
or so that eventually it gets easier
to submit yourself to the Lord.
And I said, I'm afraid it won't get easier.
I'm afraid it'll actually just get harder.
So you might as well do it now
because the only difference between doing it now
versus doing it later is if you're going to have a lot,
you're going to experience a lot more pain.
And then you're going to simply be motivated by pain
just because you're absolutely desperate.
I said, so you might as well just do it now.
So that was one thing that she finally chose to do.
And when she did it, everything changed.
But the other thing is that what she'd been doing
was she was trying to figure it out.
She was trying to understand.
Yeah.
Because we've relied on our knowledge
and we've relied on figuring it out.
We've relied on trying to reconcile
all these different truths that we know
and try to figure out how they work together.
And we can't, and God doesn't,
the thing that, the way that a friend of mine
words it is, he says, what got us,
this is Chris Black at the beginning
who talked about the three realms.
He said, what we can't use,
what got us kicked out of the garden
to try to get back in.
What got us kicked out was the knowledge,
was trying to rely on figuring it out,
on principles, on how does this work
and what are the truths and how can I harness the truth
in order to get what I want from the Lord?
And he said, we can't,
if that got us kicked out of the garden,
that won't get us back yet.
So what we have to, so here's my point.
We have to actually abandon it altogether
and choose reliance on nothing but relationship.
And by relationship,
I mean the fact that we are connected to God
and we just allow ourselves to rely on
and be dependent on the fact that we are connected
and the fact that we relate to him
in the way that he says that we do.
It's actually extremely simple.
It's extremely basic.
And it's the fact that he loves us
to such an extreme depth.
For one thing, God says that he's loved
and he, I personally believe that he subjects
all other aspects of his character
to the fact that he is loved.
So everything else, like his strength, his holiness,
whatever, has to submit to the character,
the fact that he is loved.
That's just my own personal belief about that.
But anyway, it says, regardless, it says that God is loved.
So there's all kinds of other things that God says
that he is, but they're all adjectives.
God is holy, God is mighty, God is righteous.
Those are all adjectives.
But love, when it says God is love,
that's a noun, not an adjective.
So God is the love, God is love,
God is the essence of love itself.
And you are the object of that love.
So the very aspect of God's character.
that he submits, that I believe he submits all other aspects of his character to, that
you are the object of that.
You're the object and the focus that God directs what defines his very being towards.
And then he says that because he loves you so much, you know, for God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten son.
So because he loves you so much, he desired to be unified with you because then he could
interact with you and relate to you in literally the most intimate way.
And then that, and so that's really the foundation of who it is that you are, et cetera.
And the essence and the foundation of your relationship.
So we, what we're called to do is abandon, are trying to figure it out and simply exist
in that relationship, simply exist in that connection, then that union, it's deeper than
how we usually think of relationship.
Like, okay, I talked to God, he talks to me, I do things to please him.
He does things and it makes me feel loved.
We often think of relationship like that, but relationship is at, but that's conditional.
Relationship is actually in, you know, relationship, the Lord is unconditional.
It's the fact that we, it's the fact that we're connected.
That's really what relationship is, is it's a connection and we just need to, we need
to completely depend on, rely on, and just rest in the fact that we are deeply connected
with God in that place where enough you're, you're unconditionally loved because you exist.
And because you're in him, because you're connected to the most valuable thing in existence,
you're one with the most valuable thing in existence, making you the most valuable thing
in existence.
You're connected with that.
You're one with that doesn't make you God, but I'm just saying that, you know, that you're
one with that.
So in other words, we abandoned the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and we have
to embody it simply by the fact that we are, we embody rest simply in the principle of
the best, simply by the fact that we are connected with the Lord, we are one with him
and that he is creating all of our outcomes.
And so, so what I do whenever I'm stressed, you know, you're talking about going through
a lot and going through, you know, your days and you're just going, I'm just in stress
and I don't know why I'm stressed.
Or you know, while you're stressed, but you're like, I don't know why I can't let it go.
I don't know why, you know, I can do these really big things with my ex and I can do
these really big things with them.
What's that other story there with that, with releasing myself from shame and condemnation
in a really big, really big instance, but the daily stuff, I just can't figure out how
to release the stress.
The thing that I always do that I'll ship that will release everything is I have to,
is I have to choose that.
God says that I am, that I am loved by him and that I'm completely enough just because
I exist.
Not because I'm doing something right.
Not because I'm doing something in particular, not because I'm obeying him.
Not because I have a job that I do not because of, I don't know, just not even because I
believe him because to God, and so this is very, very, very important to remember nothing
else from the river that you are more important to God than the choices that you make every
day.
He values you more than he values the decisions that you're making.
He values you more than he values whether or not you're believing him, et cetera.
You're that important.
You're important to him and that's where I live.
Maybe that's where I'm struggling because I know that if you do reject God, like in
my, what I believe that I believe it will have consequences for your eternity, like
even though he's love and everything, you know?
So I think, you know, that there is a condition in a way, you know, to live and reign with
him forever.
You have to believe in him or you.
have to have faith in him.
I agree, yeah.
So that's why I think,
so then I know that God loves me,
but even though there is a condition in the way
that if I choose not to follow him,
there will be consequences
and I will not be reigning with him forever.
And then I will fall away from God, you know?
I think it's like,
and also I learned so much about,
there's so much teaching about love
that I think affected me in the wrong way.
And then you read the Bible
and all of the love is different, you know?
Love is different.
Love is different than what you kind of,
it's not like,
like, I don't know if you read,
when you read the whole Bible,
there's like books without love,
but there are always books about,
there's always something about his greatness
and his holiness.
But then you can also say that love,
like the whole law,
there's not like a lot about love,
but then you can say that it was love.
I think, I think the struggle,
and I've heard like,
what have brought freedom to me is more to not focusing,
but I don't know if it's freedom and,
but with a twist or,
but I've heard so much the last 20 years,
there's been so much teaching about love.
And then that has split the church.
And then you allow all kinds of things into the church,
which I don't think is right.
And you turn away from the Bible.
And then it's like,
well, you really read about the gospel, the Bible,
it doesn't say that much about love.
It talks a lot more about holiness or his greatness.
And with me, I think theologically,
I'm trying to figure out,
this is like a big topic,
but because he will sentence people to hell.
So then, and so there is condition,
but there's not,
and it doesn't say in the Bible
that God unconditionally loves us,
but it says a lot in the gospels,
and especially also in their letters
about love among brothers.
So it seems to be that God's love is different
from the believers.
And so much talk about love each other as brothers.
But he will also condemn the world.
And how is that seen?
Like, so I'm trying to understand all these years,
the theology that's gone around and that has switched,
where you don't really talk about the holiness of God.
In my environment anymore,
and you put parts of the Bible out
because it doesn't align with him being loved.
And like the kind of love that feels good,
that's Norway at least.
And things have become very liberal and unhealthy
and split in the church.
So I think I'm trying, but then I'm trying to,
but then I know that he loves me,
but I know also all these things.
So I think this area is theologically challenging for me.
And I follow the teachings of charismatic
and conservatives over 40 years.
So, and you've seen the switch from the nineties
and up to now, and you've seen things go bad
and things, something's getting better
and something's getting worse.
And I'm struggling to understand love and that he is love,
but then at the same time, he's holy.
And it's not the kind of love that maybe I,
yeah, I struggle with love
and also what it personally means for me.
So maybe I do, because I don't fully understand it.
I keep him, like, I'm not able to take it in.
So, because it just says in the Bible twice
that God is love, two scriptures that comes right
after each other in the same book.
So that means like there are 65 books in the Bible
that doesn't say that he's love.
So then I'm like, why the proportions of this?
And I've heard teaching about those two scriptures,
what it really means.
And then I'm like, is that right?
Is that wrong?
Why does it talk so little about love
when if that's the basis of who he is?
And I kind of think, I don't know,
I struggle to understand love and to really receive it
because I'm conflicted theologically about it.
And then that prevents me from really letting it in maybe.
Because I'm like, yeah, God is love, but the Bible doesn't really talk that much about
it.
So is he really love?
And what is definite is he's holy.
And he's just and he's righteous.
And he's all these things.
But I don't see, I'm not able to fit it in fully.
Yeah.
And like I told you, the first time my dad since my dad died, there's been like this
glass wall, I think, a little bit between God and me, not the whole time, but at times,
where it's like, I can't really reach out to him, and he can't really reach in.
And I think the tea, all the teachings that I've heard, and that experience has also affected
my view.
So, so what when you're saying you're talking about the lady you counseled, I feel that's
what I'm doing all the time, like I'm surrendering myself all the time and doing the hard choices.
But I'm still not getting it or it's still not fully like things that people struggle
with for years to surrender to God or to give up money, housing comfort, or like their will,
I feel like I live in it.
I do it all the time.
I've done it.
But it's not, it's not, it's not really like releasing, I do it every day, I release things
to God, I surrender things to God.
And I'm still partly living in bondage.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That was like, that was like a lot.
I don't know if you could understand.
Yes.
No, I could.
And that was very helpful.
It's very helpful.
It's very helpful to get to hear, you know, how you're processing all of this.
Think of it this way is, well, there's a variety of things to say, but that in order to let
go of our unbeliefs, we have to change who we choose to receive God to be.
Because you're right, rest doesn't reconcile with the theology that you said that you've
been exposed to.
That's why people don't aren't living, you know, in rest.
And for two reasons, one, it doesn't reconcile with the fact that God is holy, but not love.
It also doesn't reconcile with the fact that with with the fact that God is all love and
from it's everything, which is very liberal aspect of the like, oh, well, then we should,
but all of these, you know, you know, it's okay to be homosexual, and it's okay to do
this.
It's okay to do that.
And that's what's happened with this idea of like, because people don't know how to
that that is, those are people who haven't fully been exposed to and live in God's real
love.
It's people who've adopted the idea of love.
And so they think, oh, well, the idea of love means surely that we're supposed to, you know,
do all of this stuff.
God's just like, well, if I'm love, and I say it's an abomination, apparently, no, then,
then to just to just open your arms, you know, not open your arms, or I mean, we should love
and accept everyone.
But what I mean is, like, per is if everything is permissible, is is not in line with God,
you know, God saying is not in line with my love.
So apparently, you haven't really been exposed to my love.
You've just been exposed to the fact that I said that I was love, and then you made
your own definition of what that meant, and then follow it according to the knowledge
of good and evil.
Like, okay, let's try to figure this thing out.
And then how would we carry it out, you know, kind of.
So that's what's happened, you know, so much the church, so anyway, that in order for us
to actually change, and actually let go of all those unbeliefs, we really do have to
choose that God is different than who we have received thus far that he is.
And so we have to see who does he say that he really is.
And what I would recommend to you is that you expose yourself experientially to him,
as opposed to just trying to look through scripture and figure it out.
And by experientially, I mean, like you've experienced him, like you put yourself like
you do those exercises, you, you remember the excerpt, what's happened when you stand
that exercise in the first session of, you know, the first teaching.
session, you know, you close your eyes and you can do it in a variety of ways. But I,
I, the thing that I always, you know, explain to people that I did is I would have Jesus come sit
on the bed and then look at me. And then I would receive, I would receive the truth of what he was
wanting to give me of himself. And that was always that, that was, it was always love,
but sometimes it was even more than love. I'd like to learn things about the Lord and about
how he saw me simply because I put myself in a position where, where I would work. I would allow
him to talk to me and I would receive of himself, his character, his personality, whatever it is
that he wanted to show me, I would receive that and I would accept it. And then I would learn
things. I, in other words, I would put myself in a position where he could be who he wanted to be
in my presence. And that's how I got to know God at a deeper level, because I could try,
I couldn't convince myself that God loved me. I looked at scripture, I listened to other people
that had had the experiences and I've listened to lots of teachings. And I'd even read this book
that had really changed my life called all this child by Brennan Manning. And that really changed
things. But ultimately I could not convince myself that he loved me. The only thing that will do that
is by actually experiencing him by being with him, where we allow him to show us who he decides
to show himself to be. In other words, okay, God, I'm here. No, no requirements. Be who you want to
be with me and show me that and give me that and just come and be you in my presence. And then I'll
get to know who that is, who it is that you are, you know, you know, and then you end up discovering,
you know, his love and his holiness and his unconditional acceptance, you know, et cetera.
It doesn't mean by the way, that our sin doesn't matter. It matters. We do sin, but we do it in our
flesh, not in our spirit. And here's why. Well, it mentions this in multiple places in scripture.
One of them was, uh, uh, well, uh, Jesus told Nicodemus, you know, that he was born of flesh
is flesh. He was born of spirit is spirit. And then in James, it says that he was born of God,
who is spirit. He was born of God or he was born of God. It is impossible for him to sin yet in
other places in scripture. See, that sounds contradictory to other places in scripture
that says he, who does not, he, who says he does not sin deceives himself. Paul said that. So how
can you have these two seemingly contradictory scriptures in the same Bible? And we're all told
to, uh, to believe all of the verses. Well, it says, Paul is talking about our flesh,
but James was talking about our spirit because he said he was born of God, which Jesus says that,
that, um, that he was, he was, uh, born of spirit is spirit. So we're, you know,
we came from God's spirit. So therefore, you know, we have a spirit and spirit can only come out of
another spirit. So apparently, you know, we came out of the Lord. So he was born of God.
It is impossible for him to sin. So anyway, um, there's a point that I was trying to make with,
with that. And then I kind of like went on a, on a little rabbit trail to make a point. But anyway,
the thing is that I could not convince myself that God loved me. I read, I was reading all
of these scriptures. They sounded contradictory. I always focused on all of the holiness and all
of the righteousness stuff and all of the, all of the rules. And I knew that God was loved just
like, you know, I knew that God would, that God said that he's loved, but if, if he talked about
him being loved so little is what it felt like to me so little and, and all of the do's and don'ts
were so big, then apparently his love wasn't as strong as his holiness. And it wasn't as important
and it wasn't whatever with all of this other stuff. But, um, the thing is that I actually
hadn't, I hadn't, because I hadn't experienced God himself at the time. Then, I mean, in a way
I had, cause I have been saved since I was four, but I didn't fully understand what it is that I
had received until I was 34, 35. Then I finally got it, but, uh, but I'd already received it.
It was just that I didn't realize what I had received until I was.
So anyway, the thing is, and that's all that we're learning about rest anyway, is we're
not learning.
We're not receiving something new.
We are now learning what it is that we've already received.
So point is that I just thought, you know, that God's holiness and his righteousness
and all these rules and all these laws apparently is more important to him, et cetera, but that's
because I hadn't experienced him.
But when I come to him and I actually let him show me who he is, not me reading scripture
and trying to figure it all out, I allow him to show me who he is and I present myself
to him.
Then I discover that I am fully accepted.
I'm fully loved.
I really am enough because I'm experiencing it with him.
Actually when I'm in his presence, that's what he's giving me.
I'm not trying to figure it out anymore.
In other words, overcoming my knowledge or my whatever, do you need to go?
No.
I'm just changing rooms.
Okay.
Huh?
That's interesting.
Yes.
So it's choosing God over my knowledge of him to determine to me what is letting God
and his being, not what I figure out from scripture.
I'm not saying scripture is wrong.
I'm saying, no, no, no, no, no.
I don't hear you.
So what is true?
Then I lose my experience in relationship with a being helped me now interpret through
where in other words, where God helps me interpret Lord, what does scripture mean?
Because I'm telling you, Lord, I cannot get it to reconcile.
We can't even get certain parts of scripture to reconcile with other parts of scripture.
And yet we all, right.
What do we have to do?
If we can't get him to reconcile, we end up choosing one over the other.
We choose this one, ignore this one because we can't get him to reconcile and God's just
like, no, no.
If I said this, we'll then accept this.
And if I said this, accept this and we're going, I don't, I don't get it.
So what we have to do is apparently there's just something that we're just not understanding.
So we have, that's what I was talking about with the old and the new wineskin is if God
says that this is who he is, then I have to choose that.
And then I have, and I have to abandon the old wineskin, have to abandon the old way
that I believed the old way that I perceived him to be.
And I have to let him tell me who he is as opposed to figuring it out.
It's me trying to figure it out this whole time in life that's gotten me where I am.
That has made me miserable, that has made me stressed.
It's not working.
So something is wrong.
So the approach is that approach of like me approaching things from the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, as opposed to approaching it from getting to it from relating to a being.
That was the, that was the choice that Adam and Eve were presented with.
And they chose, you know, knowledge.
They chose to try to, to figure things out on their own, you know, et cetera.
They didn't want to not be around God anymore.
In fact, it really bothered them to no longer that they realized they no longer had a relationship
with that.
Their choice costs them their relationship.
They thought they could have both.
They thought that if they had God though, you know, just in it, they just existed in
relationship with him and just operated from the, from his character.
They thought they couldn't, that God was pulling out on them and that there was something that
they were missing.
Like, Oh, remember what Satan told them, he said, well, God knows that you've got the
tree that, that God knows that if you eat of the tree, then you will be like him knowing
the difference between good and evil.
In other words, he was saying by living the way that you're currently living, you're,
you don't have something you don't, he knows something that you don't.
And then he's holding, he's withholding that from you.
So they're like, well, I want that too.
So they, I believe that they thought they could have both, but no, is that by choosing
this, they were not, they were choosing to not have this.
They could only do one.
So if we're, so that's why we can't use this.
If this is what we want, we have to abandon the figuring out, we have to abandon their
knowledge.
They have all of that, choose this and then live from live from relationship because it's
actually who God is that he's trying to express in the Bible.
But if we're trying to.
approached the Bible. So it's only our relationship with him
that can interpret the Bible for us, because it's his character
that he's trying to express. But if we're not approaching it,
approaching, figuring out and understanding the Bible and
interpreting the Bible from relationship with him, and
we're just trying to do it from knowledge, and we're by trying
to figure it out, then we can't ever understand it. Because what
he's talking about is he's talking about, you know, his
character, he's talking about what can only be understood from
relationship, but we're abandoning approaching it from
that way. We're abandoning approaching it from relationship
and experiencing God himself. And instead, we're trying to
figure it out without knowing him. And then we're not always
going to get the interpretation wrong. Because it can only be
understood through the code, if you will, of relationship, not
through the code of knowledge and figuring out. So my friend,
like I was telling you, what finally helped her release the
stress is, and she she talks about this, in fact, she even
talked about it just the other day. And she was telling other
people that she and I were on a call with a bunch of other
people. And she was relating to them. Again, she said, I thought
I could figure it out. And I finally realized I had to stop
figuring it out. And I had to embody it. I had in other words,
I just had to choose who does God say that he is, and I will
abandon everything else that I can't figure out. And I will
even though I don't know how this is true, because it just
feels too recklessly wonderful. And I don't see how he could
love me as much as he does, and still be holy, or accept me
unconditionally, and still tell me to do all you know that all
that I need to do all these things. So if I can't reconcile
them, I have to pick one. And this is the higher one. And I've
been trying this one and it didn't work. So I have to
recklessly abandon it and choose this instead. And so she
said that as soon as she stopped trying to figure it out, and
just chose God for who he was, and just embodied it, in other
words, just began to live it, where you know, that, that if
he's that she was unconditionally loved, and that
she was enough for God, if she just lived it, even though she
didn't understand it, even though she didn't feel like it
was true, that she chose that it was and began to live it
herself between her and the Lord. She said, everything
changed. And she said, and that's when her life changed
life transformed, because she chose to believe God over her
being able to understand him.
That's so good.
And it's terrifying, because that's why God has to talk about
faith the way that he does, because it doesn't make sense.
There's so much which we're going, yeah, but what about?
Yeah, but what about? Yeah, but what about? And yeah, but God,
and here's often what we'll do. Yeah, but God, you said, yeah,
but God, you've also said, yeah, but God, you said this. And
yeah, but you said this, but here's the problem. We are
actually putting those things between us and God, and say, and
what we're doing is we're putting those as accusations
against him. We think that we're repeating his words back to him.
But if he is telling us one thing, and we're saying, yeah,
but you said, yeah, that's accusation against him. Sure, if
we if God, so what what I have to do, because I lived my whole
life, needing God to reconcile all of the different things that
he said. It's like, okay, or before I can move forward and
anything that you say, I have to understand how that is how that
works with all these other things that you said. And I
realized that I wasn't getting very far very fast in the Lord,
if I constantly required him to reconcile everything that he
said to me, to my understanding to my satisfaction. So what I
have to do is in a manner of speaking, I had to abandon a lot
of the things that he said. Meaning like I had to abandon.
And in fact, that I couldn't understand them. I couldn't
understand. What did they mean? What was I supposed to do with
them? What did he work? What was he telling me he required of me?
You know, how do I have a relationship with him? And if I
abandon it, I'm so concerned that I'm going to lose
relationship with him because he's holding it
holding me to it, and then I'm not going to be doing it. I felt
like I was risking my relationship with the Lord. But
here's the really cool thing is that all of those things that I
quote unquote, abandoned, they could only be understood and
approached after and from the foundation of using something
deeper that God had said that he is who he says that he is to the
degree he says he is that which is good, he's provider, he's
protector, he's holy, he's love, he's all of these things. I have
to that is the deeper thing that he asked me to choose that he is
who he says that he is over that he said what he said, because I
can't figure that out yet. So I have to choose at a deeper
level, you know, at the deepest level of my being, I have to
choose him over what he said, and understanding it and
following it. I just said, I don't understand God. You say
that you're this and I don't understand what that means. You
say you're good. You say that you're love. I don't fully I
don't fully understand that. I don't understand how that's
possible. I don't understand how that ends up working out. What
that ends up making my life look like I don't understand how this
is true, but then you also say this. So if I can only choose
one Lord, you know, right now in order to finally get to actually
believe something about you, then I'm going to choose that
you are who you say that you are, to the degree you say
you're that, and that I am who you say that I am. And you say
that I that I am one with Christ, and he has nothing
correct within him. So therefore, I am not correct. You
say that I that as the new man, I have a new man has never
since. So therefore, that is what I choose. And I'm going to
start there doesn't mean that I'm not going to learn and
understand all of the other things. But I couldn't
understand them all at once. Because by trying to understand
them all at once, I wasn't believing any of them. Because
they seem to cancel each other out. Yeah, some seem to
contradict this one. And so therefore, I was choosing
nothing. So I finally realized without faith, it is impossible
to please God, it says, in other words, I needed to choose
something. So I thought, what is the deepest thing that in the
Bible, God asks to choose? And it's always, always, always,
always, always himself. Not what he said, what he tells us to do
how he tells us to obey him. He said that the deepest thing that
he always calls us to choose is him. Not even how you know, and
that's him, even more than how he has who he has declared us to
be, that we have to first choose that he is who he says he is.
And that he is that to the degree that he says he's that,
like, in other words, we can believe that he's love, but do
we believe that he's love to the extent that he says he's
love? He doesn't say he's this much love, he says this much
love. So do we believe that he's love? Or do we really believe
that he's love? Who does he say that he is? And we have to
choose that. We won't feel it. It won't make sense to us. But
we make the decision that that is who he is, we make a
decision that that is that. We won't feel it. We won't believe
it. But you make a decision and it will feel like in other
words, you make you decide that that's reality. You're not
making it up. Because God said that that's true. What you're
finally doing is because you can't convince yourself. Because
you can't make yourself believe it because you've been trying
that and you just, you know, if you're like me, it just hasn't
worked. So because trying to believe it hasn't worked, I had
to make a decision that it was true. I had to finally come
into a I had to decide to agree with God that that was true.
Because he said it and he said, Actually, I want you to agree
with me. So I agreed with them. And it felt like I was making
it up. It felt like, yeah, but God, I don't see how it's
possible. I don't see that that's how the world works. I
don't see that that's how my life works. So Lord, it doesn't.
It doesn't feel true. So it feels like I am believing
something that isn't real. And yeah, show itself to be real.
Or you sit there and nothing happens.
Yeah, it's what it is what it feels like. So what I had, but
so I just had to make the choice is if I was making up a new
reality. I had to choose that if God said it, it was true in my
life. I made it
decision. I didn't say, okay, God, you know, if you say that
that's true, well, then I guess I'll just see it. You know, I'll
let I'll let you come in and prove that to me. And then and
then that'll show me that it's real. That won't work. I
actually had to decide that that was the way that who God is, is
the way it was going to be in my world. And then I was just gonna
and then God eventually was going to just show up like
that. I don't know why I hadn't shown up like that to this
point. All I know is that if he says it's true, then I'm going
to choose in my kingdom. That is the authority that's going to
rule. That is the thing that's going to be real. Because I
decided I'm deciding something that God's already said, I'm not
making something up because I wish it to be so. You only
decide the things that God has spoken are the things that are
true. We don't just decide, oh, well, I want God to be like
this. So I'm going to decide that that's what he's like. So
who does God say he is, and then make a decision that in your
world and in your kingdom and your the reality in which you
live, that is who he is. And I had to choose that over my life.
Because think about it, your life in so many ways, according
to the way that we're filtering and interpreting it isn't
looking like that. It's not looking like what God says he
is. God says he's good. God says he's love and life does not look
like that. You know, in so many ways, you know, that's what
we're thinking, right? So I have to. So in what we're doing is we
don't want, we're so afraid to choose that God is love, because
we're afraid or and I'm just using that as one of these
things. Because God says he's lots of things. We were so
afraid to choose that he's love in our life. Because we don't
feel that that's going to actually show up. And we're
actually going to get to live it. So what we do is because we
don't think it's actually true. We're going to choose other ways
to protect ourselves from disappointment and of him not
coming through. And so you protect yourself from
disappointment by not believing that because if you believe it
and it didn't happen, you'll be disappointed. So we choose to so
in order to avoid disappointment, we don't choose
that we choose to believe what it is that we're seeing. Well,
it looks like God loves me conditionally. It looks like and
feels like and experiences that I look like this. So as long as
I accept reality, that I won't be disappointed because I will
have expected it even when bad things happen. Because I
expected it. I can't be disappointed. Because I knew it
was gonna happen. And sure enough, it happened. So I
protected myself against disappointment. But if God says
that that is not who he is, and we don't like our lives and how
they're looking in our life, no matter if we thought that this
was the right way to live it. If you're miserable, it means
something's wrong. It means that somehow what we've been doing
doesn't work. So we have to do is we have to make Bible talk so
much about hardship, and suffering and taking up the
cross, and all the martyrs and all the priests in prison people
that follow Christ in Asia, then I'm like, it's aren't we
supposed to be in pain?
But part of that, I think that's also theology, or just kind of
reconcile, how can this be true? If this is true? Yeah, yeah, I
have to make a decision. Do I want to true? Do I do I? Do I
choose that God is harsh? Or do I choose and because that's my
my own only my only way of understanding this if I don't
believe me? So then do I believe that? Or do I believe
that? Because if we're if we're finding them contradictory,
we're having to choose one of them. So choose. So if you've
been choosing one this whole time, and it hasn't worked, what
I did is I is I abandoned it. And I chose the other very
recklessly. And not because I wished it to be true, so to
speak. It was that I mean, I did wish it to be true. But the
reason I did is because God said that that's who he was. Like,
okay, then I'm going to choose that one because I thought he
said he was like this too. But it's not working. That's not
working. So maybe there's just simply something about it that
I'm not understanding. In other words, I'm not approaching it
from the person I'm not seeing it
through the filter that I'm meant to see it through,
I'm seeing it through another filter.
And so therefore I don't understand
why there's so much suffering, et cetera.
You know, so anyway,
so I just abandoned trying to understand this
and I chose this instead.
So we can't, we, that's the, again,
the thing about the old and the new wine spin,
we can't, when God calls us into something new,
we can't use an old wine spin.
Our way of understanding it or the things that we believed
because they will not reconcile God,
because here's, I mean, they eventually reconcile,
but they, our approach to them does not,
cannot stay, how do I put that?
That the problem is our approach to them.
So we have to,
since we don't know how to approach it in different,
we just have to abandon it, choose this instead,
and then God will shine light on what that other means,
how to view it in the appropriate,
correct way, so to speak.
Well, okay, Lord, you know,
what is this whole martyr thing?
What is this whole suffering thing?
You know, et cetera.
And which, you know, I could explain some of that,
but anyway, I felt like I was,
that I was,
word,
why am I having a hard time thinking of the word?
That I was risking my relationship with the Lord.
Yeah.
Because I thought that he was holding me accountable
to doing all of these things,
to obeying all, to obeying him over here,
to apologizing all of the time,
to feeling bad about myself, to do that,
and that that was making him pleased with me.
But it wasn't working,
because there were all of these other things
that he said to believe about himself too,
and it's like, well,
I couldn't see how they both could exist,
so I abandoned these,
and I kept all of the hard things.
So again, when they didn't work,
I had to, because I couldn't figure out
how the two reconcile,
I had to abandon all of these,
and I had to choose these,
and that changed everything.
And then from that,
he began to shine light on all of these other things
I could only see through God has been harsh, et cetera.
Then he understood that was possible through love.
And I just hadn't understood that before,
but I had to abandon them first,
because here's ultimately what God requires.
He said, he always wants us to choose him
over our life, over our lifestyle,
over our knowledge,
over what we thought we understood,
over our fear,
even over us understanding him.
He wants to be chosen for who he is,
regardless of whether we like it,
regardless of whether we understand it,
regardless if we don't know what it is,
because sometimes God will ask us,
in fact, you're currently in that position
of having to choose God
without knowing what you're choosing.
And that's what I had to do as well.
I'm like, okay, God, I don't know who you are,
but you're telling me to choose who that is.
So Lord, who are you?
And sometimes he won't tell us.
I mean, he'll tell us general things.
Oh, I'm good, I'm loved, I'm whatever,
but we don't know fully what that means.
What do you mean you're loved?
What do you mean you're good?
Because Lord, I haven't,
the things that I've been seeing in my life
and other people's life, that didn't look good,
or that didn't look like love.
So you say that you're good and you say that you're loved
and you say that you share that in my life,
so apparently I don't know what good or what love is.
But whatever that is, Lord,
and whoever you are, I'm choosing to receive that.
I'm choosing that over what my life looks like,
over whether my life looks good or comfortable
or pain or whatever, I choose that you,
I choose as my higher value that you be who you are
into my life instead of over my life
looking a particular way.
For me, understanding or whatever, I just choose you.
That's true life sacrifice of ourselves.
And then by doing that, God takes care of us.
God takes care of everything.
He mentioned in Hebrews 11, six,
what we're called to have faith in.
Because you know, we all wonder that, okay, we're supposed to
have faith, what are we supposed to have faith in? Are we
supposed to have faith that, you know, God promised that such and
such would happen. And then we have faith that that's going to
happen. And it's not, it is, it was 11, six. It says, and
without faith, it is impossible to please God, because anyone
who comes to him must believe that he exists. So we've got
that one. And that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Not seek that, and believe that what he said is going to happen
is going to happen, that if he gives you a promise, that it's
going to happen, or whatever. And no, what we're supposed to
have faith in, it's saying, is him, not in what he says, you
know, etc. That sure, we're supposed to, you know, believe
what he says, etc. But my point is, it's so much deeper than
that. The foundation is we have to choose him without
conditions. You know, allowing him to be whoever it is that he
says that he is, even though we don't know what that is, and we
don't understand it. We just have to choose that. And, and
then choose that he says that, okay, he says that he loves me
unconditionally. So I will choose that no matter what it is
that I'm doing, whether I'm sinning, intentionally or
unintentionally, or I'm not sending that someone's doing
something to me. But you know, when they they're hurting me,
and they're, you know, they're attacking me, or I'm living some
kind of a I'm getting some kind of an A an experience with the
Lord or with, you know, or in my school or with a relationship or
with finances or whatever. I choose that, that no, that no
matter what it looks like, and no matter what it feels like,
and no matter what I'm being tempted to believe, to the
contrary, I am choosing that God loves me. He says that he
loves me, he says that right now, I'm enough for him, without
doing anything, without being anything without accomplishing
anything, that everything it is that I've done this far in my
life, isn't being used by God to determine to him whether or not
he loves me, that he loves me simply because that's what he
chose. And he chose that before we chose him. For instance, I
know that you're talking about, you know, sometimes these things
just kind of feel a bit contradictory, like the fact
that, yeah, that we're supposed to believe in, you know, etc.
And yeah, we are. But the thing is that, in remember what I was
saying earlier, is that you are more important to him than
whether or not you believe him. Your belief in him is not the
most important thing to him. You, regardless of your belief,
is what's most important to him. It's not that your belief is not
important to him. It's that you are more important than what you
believe. And how do we know that we can prove that God proved
that through scripture, when it says that God chose us, and he
saved us to himself, while we were killing him. So not only
were we not choosing him and not believing him, but we were
out and out rejecting him to such an extent, to such an
extreme, that our rejection killed him. So it's not like,
Oh, well, he was dying. And while he was dying, we were
rejected. Our rejection is what killed him. Our unbelief is what
killed him. And it was in that time that he chose us and loved
us. And that he, you know, united us with himself. I mean,
that is love without condition. So the love with it, the
unconditional love was proving, God said, like this action. Even
though I don't know that anywhere in the Bible, it says
the phrase, God loves us unconditionally. The act itself
proved it, because he didn't even die for us while we loved
him. He died for us, when we have literally had nothing to
offer and literally not only didn't want to, we were the
ones who were causing him to die. We are rejection of him
was killing him. And so he's like, so there's nothing. So
that's how we know, proven by the fact that God himself, he
doesn't have to die. Because he's God, he put himself in a
position and actually died, actually went to death. And
because he
chose us. And he did that without conditions on our part. In other words, we had nothing to offer.
So, if that's how he chose us, then there's nothing on this side of his death, because his
death was worse. There's nothing on this side of his death, now that he's resurrected, that we can,
that his choice of us and his love of us is conditional on, not even your belief.
Because you had no belief back then, when your unbelief killed him. So, your belief now,
so his love of you and his choice of you is not conditional on your belief.
And so, I'm saying all of that from the fact, you've already believed in him, which has allowed
you to be, to receive what it is that he did. And you've been able to be reunited with him, because
you responded to him. So, now that you were united with him, and there's nothing correct
within you, then you don't have to be, then you don't have to worry about not believing him.
That's who you are now. You are the new man. Your soul and your body, yeah, they still struggle
with unbelief, but your spirit doesn't. Now that you've chosen him, now that you've received what
he did for you, when you didn't believe him, and so therefore, he has no conditions on you.
Now that you're united with him and one with him, your new man literally has no history of sin.
Because the old man died, the new man was created. The new man was literally created in Christ,
when you accepted him. And therefore, it's never had an existence or a history in which it had sinned.
So, that's why, that's the, that's the, I don't know, the foundation, the logic or whatever that you,
that proves that you are more important to him than your belief in him. You know, meaning like,
whether or not you're believing him right now that he loves you, or whether or not you're
believing that, you know, even that he loves you unconditionally. You have to choose, you have to
believe that if he says that you are as important as he says that you are, that you really are to
him. You have to allow yourself to be that important, to be chosen at that deep level
that was so unconditional. Because it's true, but you don't get to live the benefits of it being true
if you don't choose it, if you don't allow it to be. Because God's like, hey, this is what I choose
for me. Like, yeah, Lord, but that's not what I choose to live, experience it. You have to choose
to live to, you have to choose it in order to get to live and experience that. So, that's what I do
whenever I'm stressed or whatever. Sure, there's other tools that we'll be talking about in session
seven of the teaching. But that, you know, like, do you? It's so good. Yeah. But ultimately,
the deep thing is that we have to completely abandon our understanding,
our trying to reconcile all of those other things that God said, etc. Because it's like,
you can't understand them if you're not choosing the basis of faith that I am requiring of you.
And that is just me. Do you choose me? Everything else, the understanding, the obedience,
the living like me, the looking like me, the, you know, being a good Christian, all of that
flows naturally from choosing me first. So, there's no hope of this if we don't do this.
So, if this, and I'm trying to figure this out, is keeping us from being able to do this.
So, like, I don't see how this reconciles with this. So, I have to choose if I can only choose
one as I've been choosing this, then we're not even choosing the thing that makes this
living this thing possible. We can only live like the fact that God, like the way that God wants us
to live. He's first that we are that he is who says that he is. So, what I do is whenever I'm
stressed or whatever, I just remember and I had a moment like this yesterday, actually,
I'm really, really struggling with something. And I'm struggling.
actually with another person, it's like, Lord, why am I
struggling with this other person? I don't feel that
that's right. I don't feel like that other person has like done
anything to me. And yet, logically, and yet it feels
like, why is it? Why do I? Why am I happy about this? And he
showed me, Ashley, it's because you do not feel that you are
enough for me. You don't feel that you just being you is
enough, that I love you without you doing anything without you
being anything without you having a ministry, having a
business without you, you think that there are conditions. And
therefore, because you believe that there are conditions and
that they're not enough for me, you don't feel that you can
pursue the dreams that you want. You don't feel that you can
live, that you can, I don't know, you've got some dreams in
your heart that you want to see that you want to live out. And
you don't feel that you can want them, or receive or asking
for them, or receive them, because you do not feel that
you're enough in a manner of speaking, you don't feel that
you deserve them. Is that therefore at the root of it,
Ashley, you don't believe me. You don't, I've told you
something, and you don't believe it. I told you that I am good.
And you're not believing that I am.
And this projected into another relationship?
What?
And this projected into you having trouble with another
person?
Yes, because this other person, what they were doing is they
were some good things were happening in their life. Yeah.
And I was just like, why do why am I not happy about the good
things that are happening? Yeah. And it was because, why can I
be happy in the worst just like because you think I'm holding
out on you? Yeah. And I'm not letting you pursue. And so as
soon as I realized, Oh, my word, God's not putting limits on me.
God, God loves me, and I'm enough for him. And all my work
is to keep inviting you to live bigger than I'm living, and to
dream bigger than I'm dreaming. And he's just like, actually,
let's go. I'm not limiting you. You're not limiting you. You're
saying that somehow you can't or that I won't let you or
whatever. You're making that up. He said, so as soon as I
felt that God was not withholding something from me,
and not letting me live a particular way. In other words,
live larger, and I was like, holding me back and whatever. As
soon as I realized that wasn't the case, I was so excited for
my friend. I'm like, I can't believe she got to be that's
wonderful. Because my whole issue wasn't her. My whole issue
was what it triggered in me as an accusation. I was holding me
against that he wasn't that I wasn't enough for him. And
therefore I wasn't letting myself dream, you know, and
pursue things bigger than whatever I thought he was like,
stifling me or holding me back or whatever. No, I love you. You
and I live big together. But do you choose that that's true? Do
you choose Ashley, that I love you to the extent that I do that
you're enough for me that there are no conditions on on my love
for you? How? Hey, if you say it's true, Lord, that I choose
that it's true. I make it true in my in my mind, in my reality,
because you said it first. So therefore I allow it to be so
and I will live like it. I will choose it is true. And if I
choose that it's true, I will make my decisions based off of
it. And so soon as that change, and I'm telling you what this
changed in seconds, my whole thing of like having an issue
with her and not having an issue with her, literally seconds, all
that I needed to know was that I was enough for God, that I
didn't have to do anything, and that I could just be and that he
just delighted in my existence. You know, regardless of what my
life looks like, regardless of whether or not I believed in, he
chose me over my beliefs. He chose me over my faith. It
meaning like whether or not I'm, I'm believing in whether or not
I'm having faith in him, because I'm already the new man. My soul
is the is the one that's having a problem. But my spirits not.
And it's my spirit that's one with him. So it's all fine. So
anyway, as soon as I as soon as I mean the word with mine, I was
so excited for my friend. And I had no problem. And I
congratulated her and I said, Oh, my goodness, I can't believe
that you do that. That's wonderful. Because it no longer
had anything to do with me. Anyway, so I'm always still
having to learn all of these things, too. So with along with
everybody else, but anyway, so I would recommend
that seriously, hands down the most powerful thing.
In fact, that lady that I'm talking about,
she talks about the fact that the most powerful
transition moment for her in shifting into rest,
of course, she learned a lot of things after that,
but the most powerful thing for her was to break
the belief in her mind, in her inner being,
that God didn't love her.
And as soon as that broke,
a whole new world opened up for her,
and then she could start,
and then she could like shift into rest,
she could release things, whatever.
So her biggest experience that she had,
in fact, a lot of people,
their big thing is the exercise,
the love exercise that you and I were talking about.
That for them is huge,
because if they finally allow themselves
to be vulnerable enough to be loved by the Lord,
they allow God to just present himself as he is,
and love them unconditionally,
accept them unconditionally,
where he sees everything,
and he's like, yeah, we're not even talking about it,
because I choose you at a deeper level.
I choose you for who you are,
not for what you've grown up to become,
not for what you've developed,
not for what you believe about me,
just you as you are,
that is who I choose.
And that changes everything,
because you already are the man.
So the problem is we're living in resistance
believing that we're not.
That's the problem.
That's creating all of the difficulty,
all the anxiety, all of the struggle,
is the fact that we don't believe
that we are no longer a sinner.
We think we still are,
and that we're fighting ourselves,
and we're not.
We're the new man.
Sure, our soul and our body still are afraid,
but our spirit isn't.
And so we're teaching our soul and our body
how to not be afraid anymore.
But we've already accomplished it in the spirit.
Who it is that we are is already there.
So is this,
I wanna make sure before I leave you
that you know how to actually take this
and what to actually,
like some things to begin to step into
as opposed to,
oh, sure, all of that sounds good.
Wouldn't that be nice?
No, it resonates.
Okay.
It really resonates.
Yeah.
It's really good.
Because even me telling you all of these things
is just to trigger your conversations with the Lord,
but this can't convince you.
You listening to me and all of the teachings
is the same thing as scripture.
It cannot convince us.
No.
The only thing that will work
is if we expose our spirits to the Lord
and say, God, you reveal yourself to me,
and I am gonna present myself vulnerably to you
where I allow everything that I've believed about you
to be completely challenged and wiped away.
If that, you know, when I come,
and I'm not saying that it will,
I'm saying that, Lord,
I'm willing to give up my beliefs about you.
All these things I held so dear
that I thought, well,
I was keeping me in good stead with you.
I'm willing to abandon all of them
just to expose myself to you
because God is what transforms us,
not our belief about it.
It's God and his being that,
and his spirit that gives us life,
that changes us are,
and so, I mean, I'm not devaluing our beliefs.
Our beliefs are very important.
No, no, no.
God wants him to be more important to us
than what we believe about him.
He doesn't want us to get our identity from our beliefs
or our security of our relationship with God
from our beliefs.
He wants us to get our security
of our relationship with God from him.
So sometimes we're using our beliefs
and as a protection between us and God,
and so sometimes we have to not choose our beliefs
and what it is that we've believed about God thus far,
and just like God, I just present myself to you.
You show me who you are.
Forget about what I believe that you are.
I'm just presenting myself to you.
Now you show me, Lord, who you are.
That's terrifying.
That'll change everything
because nothing can convince you of God's love
than actually exposing yourself,
allowing yourself to be exposed to him and to his love.
So that'll change everything
because it's not a game.
And it's not our knowledge of this love that will change anything.
It's actually our spirit being touched by God's spirit.
And sometimes we have to get our beliefs out of the way.
In other words, our head out of the way in order to finally, um, have
that spirit to spirit connection.
And then our beliefs will come from what, from the being that we've encountered.
Hmm.
And then scripture will open up to us and it'll make more sense because
we know the being who wrote it.
Hmm.
So good.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
It is scary and yeah, but very, very good.
Yeah.
So you have some, so you know what, uh, you have some, um, like some
steps to take or whatever, so you know, some things that you kind of like
basically kind of grab ahold of take between you and the Lord.
Okay.
All right.
Yes, I do.
Yeah.
You have any questions you feel free to reach out, um, and I might be posting
a few, um, extra little videos for you, um, on your, on the, on the
page that you might find helpful.
So.
Oh, that's great.
Okay.
So much.
This is so good.
I'm just going to take this in now.
Okay.
All right.
Good.
All right.
A little, you save a little, I can't really, really tell.
I can't, I can't tell if you're just kind of like overwhelmed.
I have a lot of emotions.
I think I am.
I feel like it's really good.
I'm a little bit overwhelmed.
I'm thinking about, Oh, I'm using old wine skins, but, and I'm like, yeah, but I
know, I know what I need to do.
I need to just take it with God and kind of like surrender my beliefs about him.
It is my theology that's gotten in the way of this.
And I can just say it like when you were talking, you're just kind of
painting a picture for me about it.
And also that now, even though I heard this teaching this summer, I've been
walking through it now for weeks and I'm still trying to use old wine skins.
And then I'm just like, and I actually don't believe that he's loved that he
loves me, and I actually don't fully believe that he's good to me, you know?
And I also think that I know about the Bible.
I'm actually using something good.
The knowledge of the Bible, which is a good thing, but it's
coming between me and God.
Exactly.
So often we use scripture itself, you know, God's word as accusation against the Lord.
And I was thinking, is it in the first session you make this, you talk about it
in the first or second session, I think.
Yeah, I did that we can use scripture.
I can't remember.
I'll, I'll check it out.
Yeah.
I don't remember that you're having this exercise where you, yeah.
Yeah.
I mentioned somewhere in there about the extent to which we have to have faith
and God even requires of us sometimes to abandon, um, the, to, well, not, not
abandoned, but if there's something that we can't find in scripture that we feel
that he's telling us that we can't actually find it, I'm not talking about
like it's contradictory to scripture, find it, then sometimes we're just like,
yeah, but God, I can't see it.
And we'll, we're that's taking God's word and using it in accusation against him.
It's very, it's the same thing.
In fact, it's worse than what Adam did with, uh, with the Lord.
When he said, Lord, it's the woman gave me woman.
You gave me that it, that is actually accusation against the Lord.
God gives a good thing.
And we use that against the Lord saying, God, the thing that you gave me as a good
gift to love on me is the thing that caused me to separate from you.
That is a horrible accusation.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
So I know what to do.
Okay.
I just wanted to make sure that you're okay before I left.
Yeah.
And I'll let, let you know if I have questions and if not, I'll talk to you next week.
Okay.
All right.
Sounds good.
Well, I'll talk to you later, Renee.
You take care.
Okay.
Bye.