I see you and I can hear you.
Can you see and hear me?
Yeah.
I think that I think we're better now.
Much better.
Yeah.
Just needed a reset.
So anyway, I thought why I've never had this problem and I was like, and then I suddenly
I glanced down.
I was like, I'm unplugged.
But anyway, so go ahead.
You were talking about the fact that, you know, this, it's, it's not so bad anymore
because you realize that, oh, well, no, this is just allowing the thing to no longer stay
there and to come up.
And I now have the opportunity to let it up and out and it's just part of the process.
So exactly, exactly.
And I think, again, everything's circling around, well, you know, I think the out, if
I could like frame it, it's that releasing the outcome, but also learning how to operate
with a mature will and something that you, so Kate, I saw that Kate had, it popped up
in my newsfeed because Kate had commented once again on your, you posted it the first
week of our intensive about overwhelm and you talked about responsibility, which was
interesting because that was such a theme in our group last night.
Because I feel like, I think I feel such a high sense of responsibility.
And when I feel responsible, yet no authority in the situation, there's like this really
like tumultuous disconnect, if you will.
And so yesterday, you know, Hannah's in a phase where she's exerting her will, like
she's discovering, I do have a will.
She's just in that natural phase where there's tantrums and there's breakdowns.
And then I have a husband with a really strong will, like, you know, he's a go getter.
He's a maker of happen.
He is, and he has a high sense of responsibility too, right?
Like that's something that can be a strength until it's not a strength.
And so just in my home environment yesterday, I'm like, can someone just do it my way?
That's hilarious.
Can I win at least once today?
Can I just please?
And I just had this breakdown and it was in front of Bruce and I was able to like just
verbalize like, hey, this is what I'm feeling.
I am feeling such a loss of control because I have, I am in a, how, and I think this is
part of the tension with like, even what I was expressing in our last transformation
call with his parents and family, his family culture.
So it's a, it's a family of leaders and everyone has very strong wills.
And I think it manifests in some unhealthy ways, especially after trauma, which is what
we kind of unpacked even last call.
But it's like, I lose my, I realize, I didn't realize this, but I like, because I was explaining
to you with his parents, like, I just kind of shut down because I'm like, I don't want
to tell the truth and I don't want to lie.
And so I just kind of withdraw and then I'm like kind of silent.
And I realized it's actually, it's not, it's, it's a, you know, where I would have maybe
attributed that to the past of like being a people pleaser, trying to be a peacekeeper.
It's actually like a will problem.
Like it's me not, I don't feel like I'm showing up with a mature will in the situation and
therefore I kind of diminish myself.
And then I'm really resentful and frustrated and I don't know why, you know, or, you know,
and so anyway, all that to say yesterday, I kind of, it was all like hitting the fan
and there's a lot of things that I'm still processing with the Lord, but the responsibility
piece for me, I think was an aha moment in yesterday and last night's call, because feeling
responsible for people's responses.
And to the point of, I can see it, but also I'm having a really hard time letting it go
because I feel like I've been raised with this sense of like, it's attached to like
godly character.
Yeah.
Correct.
And so that's been like hard for me when I'm wanting to exert my will because it feels
prideful, it feels pushy, it feels messy.
So you added some clarity in one of our Q&A sessions, because I was even just maybe even
confused with like, what does it mean to choose me?
And like, what does that look like?
And you even talked about it in like, hey, this isn't about like you choosing yourself
over another person.
So I feel like I'm putting pieces together, but it's in the moment.
of like, you know, you're just like, wait a minute.
I feel like I have pieces of understanding,
but I'm struggling because it feels
like an entirely new operating system
that I'm learning of just how do I relate to others?
Releasing them from the expectation of change,
you know, like they might not change.
And I like how to, but there's not me
like removing myself entirely from their lives
because this is family.
And so I know I'm just throwing a lot at you.
I'm verbally.
Yeah, you're just really processing.
You're just like, well, there's this going on.
And then there's this and all the connections.
I think with Bruce and I, like it was the fact
that I could verbalize like, hey,
this is just what I'm feeling.
I felt like he received it.
It wasn't like we really knew what to do with it.
Cause like, you know, it's just another level
of us learning to trust each other.
And in certain dynamic, we're doing so much together.
Like we're not just married to each other.
We're running a business together
and this ministry piece together and stuff like that.
And so there's a lot of, you know,
we carry different perspectives when there's a healthy trust
that it runs really smoothly, but when we're trying to,
especially when we're in innovation mode
or trying something new, like it's, you know,
I'm like wanting to share my insight.
And he's thinking so much quicker than I am.
And like, what about this?
What about this?
I'm like, can you just hold on for a second?
So I'm not, I think I'm not so worried
about that piece as much because I feel
like we've been in this dynamic before
and I was actually hope-filled
because I've felt the tension before
but I've never been able to articulate it quite
like I was yesterday of like, hey,
I'm just feeling oppressed with, you know,
before if it was just you and your strong will,
there was some relief if, you know,
I could step away and come back,
but now it's like, I step away from you
and I'm like with Hannah and her strong will, you know?
And then like, even the dog doesn't want to listen
to me sometimes.
And like, so it was just,
there wasn't like a stepping away and like, you know,
resetting and coming back.
And so he understood that.
But as I was processing it with the Lord,
I was like, Lord, is this part of what I'm struggling with,
with like the entire family dynamic?
And it's something that has been acknowledged in the past.
Like, you know, at the dinner table, like, oh yeah,
like we're just a, you know, a group of challengers.
And like, there's a sense of pride in that in many ways
but what's been really interesting
and even having some talks with Bruce's sister,
you know, his sister, sister, not a sister-in-law,
she's in a season two where she's recognizing like,
hey, I don't know if this is like, okay.
So everyone's kind of, you know, we've all hit our thirties
and we're realizing like, oh, wait a minute.
Like there's other ways of doing life and there's other,
and like maybe some of the tension in my marriage
is because, you know, my family culture isn't like superior,
like meaning what I came from.
And so she, her and her husband are having those talks too
after almost 10 years of marriage.
So it's just interesting, the timing of it all.
And I know it sounds obsessive,
but it is the thing that I feel like permeates,
like just the fam, because of the situation, right?
And it's all the different things, all the different layers.
It just, I feel like it permeates my time
and my energy and my-
What does specifically?
Like my dynamics with his parents and some of his siblings,
my dynamics with some of my siblings,
because they're tied into the situation.
Like there's not a place,
I don't feel like there's a place I can go where-
You don't have to face it.
You don't have to face it and navigate.
Right, yeah, yeah.
And so I have to figure it out, figure out what do I do?
What's required of me?
So for all that rabbit trail,
I think that's the point is like,
there's no removing myself from this.
Yeah.
Like there's no me, I mean,
without it being like extremely,
short of being estranged from family members, right?
Which is like not really what my heart is.
It's like, we have to figure this out
because it's not going away.
And I think I've gotten to a point
even right before the rest intensive
where I told you I kind of had that moment
where I like cross-lined, I'm like, I'm done.
I think that was more about me realizing,
like I can't change people.
So if they don't change for the next 20 years.
Where does my responsibility lie and what is the Lord requiring of me in this to where I can walk free, even if there's like, yeah, oh yeah, stuff swirling.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, which is absolutely obviously possible because just like Jesus in the boat, where the situation can stay and he was like I don't find any change it.
Right. He just went and he was in sleep now. Yeah, we can bring order. And that's what the Lord wants us to eventually do is to, to, you know, express heaven into earth to the point where earth, meaning creation meaning other people's souls have an
opportunity to respond and to make a different kind of response than what they're responding to and unbelief, they can now choose to believe you know that they are safe they are protected, you know, and that God is the source of all of those things,
but, you know, we don't, we have to let go of that ever happening first and be calm in the storm before we're given the authority and the responsibility and the power to be able to bring order to the situation so the disciples couldn't do it because
they were afraid they were subject to it and so they they didn't have it within them to, they didn't have the authority in that position to be able to bring the order, so we have to let it go first before we're given the responsibility to bring order to the
situation so we have to give it that at first but there were several things that I was thinking of when you were talking and so it's kind of like trying to scribble without looking down.
I'm sorry.
I just like verbally vomited so much. No, no, no, no, no, not at all. It was actually very helpful. I like it when people just talk and talk and talk and get because it gives me, especially when I don't give them much, and which is why especially when I used
to give calls and I would just basically ask them to tell me about themselves and I would give them a whole bunch of, I would basically just explained like this.
You tell me about, you know, your relationship with the Lord and how you grew up and where you are now. So in other words basically say hey you can tell me anything, because I found that when people, when I didn't give them specifics.
More than I knew to ask for. Yeah, because they would tell me what was really important to them, it was actually in their hearts because that's the stuff that would come to their mind is the stuff that was most important to them so if I just kind of let it all come out.
I don't know I like it when people just talk because then it gives me gives me more, more insight into, like, I don't know, not just like kind of like the issue, but like how they're feeling about it, how they're interacting with it you know, like how they're
responding to it. And so that's really helpful. But, um, but anyway, so one of the things that I was thinking about is, well, I feel like I'm, I'm like jumping in on some things that we've already passed that were.
So I'm just going to start talking and mentioning things that came to mind at different points that you brought up. And one is that sometimes we you know you said that you were feeling a loss of control.
And you're like you know how do you actually in the moment, you know, choose yourself.
Well part of it is that one of the things that we feel is we feel that we don't matter.
In other words, we're not present in the room, we're not present in the conversation, we kind of, we kind of disassociate because we're too afraid to like what you said you were afraid of confronting but you were afraid of in telling the truth and you are also
just shut down or, you know, remove yourself and so therefore you know that's this, that's this sense of like not being present. In other words, not giving one, not giving oneself to the situation.
And we can't bring Jesus into a situation that we have disassociated from.
We're not allowing ourselves to be there.
So we can't do anything positive for the Lord. And, and even like sacrifice for someone else or whatever because you have to have something in order to sacrifice it.
But then we're not by disassociating well then we're not carrying.
We're not adding our weight to the room weight just simply mean value substance that you and your presence there in the spirit matters.
But what I'm saying like even more than physical is just even the spirit. It matters. And so anyway, that was one of the things that I was thinking of is that is that we, we get frustrated with a lack of control, but then we also get frustrated with feeling like
that we don't matter because, how did I put this?
As if our voice, so it's sometimes beyond
not getting to do what we want to do.
Like, you know, can every, what did you say?
How did you wear that?
Can we just do what it is that I want to do?
Can we just do it my way for once?
Can we just do it my way, yeah.
So there's that, but sometimes it's not even just that
that's hitting us in this situation.
Sometimes we can have a similar response
but what's bothering us is that we don't have,
that what it is that we want doesn't matter.
It doesn't have any weight, you know?
So it's more than just simply control.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it's like,
hey, I want safety and security
and I've attached it to this type of result.
So can't we all do this and make this type of result happen?
Oh my word, we're not, therefore I'm losing control,
therefore maybe I'm not gonna be safe.
So sometimes that's one of the things we struggle with.
And sometimes in those situations,
it can also be this fear and this concern
that we are, that we're not significant.
That what it is that we want,
just simply for the heck of just wanting it,
isn't as valuable as not just what someone else wants
but sometimes when no one else is involved,
it's just that what it is that we want
isn't as valuable as, I don't know,
as I say, I don't know, meaning I know,
but I'm trying to figure out how to word it,
like as valuable as what we think of as a godly principle.
Like, well, we know we should do this, but I don't want to.
And so that can feel like that we don't,
we feel that we don't matter
and because we haven't had enough affirmation
in our own quiet life with the Lord,
quiet life meaning like the inside life with the Lord,
that our opinion and our will does matter.
We don't have usually as much of a problem
with other people getting their way.
If we have enough affirmation that we have value,
but if we don't have enough affirmation,
then we're always looking to those situations
to affirm it for ourselves.
So anyway, that's another thing that can come up
and I don't know if that's anything
that you've run into at all,
but I was just mentioning that that sometimes
in the situations when we respond like that,
it can be control and it can be a lack of feeling
like we're valued, which shows up with other things
like when we're in relationships where,
someone's vocalized something
and you don't feel like you can vocalize anything
because you're simply bringing your weight to the room.
In other words, your presence, so to speak,
means that there's going to create conflict
and it's going to sound contrary
or contradictory or whatever.
And so again, this sense of like a lack of a value
that they can say what they want,
but you don't get to say what you want.
Yeah, yeah.
Or that can be vocalized and that can be expressed
and they can live out loud and you can't.
Yeah.
And so that's one of the things that I thought of.
The other thing is you were talking about you and Bruce,
the fact that he like comes up with these ideas
and he thinks so fast and you can't think that fast.
You're just like, just a second, let me like,
because you probably have, you probably analyze more.
Yeah, I do.
You analyze a lot more.
And so you, me, and I have another friend
that while you were talking,
it was reminding me of conversations
that I've had with her as well,
where all of us think that,
now my husband isn't necessarily the same way.
I've just found myself in other situations
like this with other people.
And she, with her husband, you, with your husband,
where people are coming, firing these ideas so fast
that, and you just need a bit more time
and then it can feel like everyone else,
that the other person always gets their way
simply because they can think faster.
Yeah.
And so, so my point is that,
like what you were talking about yesterday,
was it yesterday?
Yeah, I think it was, yeah, it was yesterday
about the fact that God has been talking to you about time.
You've got time to decide.
Yeah.
You don't have to decide right then
just because he came up with his idea
about what it is that he thinks would be great,
doesn't mean that you have,
that that obligates you to have a response of,
to have a decision right then.
Yeah.
No, so something that my friend and her husband realized
because that she's like that,
that it was, they would discuss the fact that,
okay, so that's, those are all of his ideas
and that's what I'm gonna do.
Great. She just needs a little bit of time. And sometimes they would, she would tell them about
how much time that she was going to need. Okay. Give me 10 minutes or give me 24 hours
or give me a whatever, because it's, you just process differently. There's different factors
that you're taking into account that they're not usually somebody who's an internal processor is
also thinking of all of the risks, all of the what ifs, but okay. That sounds really creative
very great. But what about these things right here? And so one of the things that they found
in their marriage, that was just that helped them is that they, that when they needed to make a
decision about something, he needed to know that she needed a bit of a leeway. I mean, meaning like
a little bit of heads up. That's what it's not leeway, a little bit of heads up. It's like, okay.
And that she wasn't. And then she basically would, in a manner of speaking, would
for, would refuse to be forced emotionally by him into making a decision right then.
But no, I understand that you want that. I don't have it to give. So therefore I'm not going to
give it. So therefore you're just going to, I will, I'll let you know when I come up with it.
And then she maybe sometimes like give them a time or whatever, because we can feel that pressure
from other people. And what's really hard is for us to not take our, our treat her husband,
similarly to what we used to do with our parents, which is, well, I guess if I had the emotional
pressure, well, then I just have to, and this isn't fair. And I want you to know that I don't
think that this is fair and I don't like this, but then the fact that we're, that we're acting
like that lets us know that we're feeling threatened. Just know that, no, we're not
threatened. So in other words, there's that active in that sense of maturing our own will again,
of like, no, my, my will matters and it's equal. And so therefore this is my decision
and you don't have to agree with it and you don't have to like it. And we're not being
mean about it. I'm just letting you know how it's going to be. And because that's where I am right
now, you know, without feeling this thread of like, well, why did, you know, he's not going
to like this and he's probably going to give me pushback. So what if he gives us pushback?
I mean, we're married to good people, right? Forces, you know, we're not in a bad situation
where it's kind of like, oh my goodness, am I going to be in a physical threat? Right. There's
not, there's just kind of like what, so in other words, what's he going to do? Yeah. And as weird
as this sounds guys like it because it's, they, they respect it. Yeah. It's weird as it is. And
so it makes them also feel more safe with us because then they feel like we're being more
authentic and you know, et cetera, because there's an actual will that we're exerting.
And anyway, those are just some of the things that I thought of. And then there was just one
more thing is, you know, talking about value is then, so I'm sorry, all of these things probably
feel like they're like this. That was great. I'm taking notes too. So I'm connecting dots
right. Um, and that is also, um, being enough for yourself is sometimes more spiritually powerful
than quote unquote, doing the right thing, being enough for yourself in the moment,
because you're coming to agreement with the Lord to that degree. So being enough for yourself,
having enough, enough value and significance of who it is that you are and not kind of like,
oh, well there's, um, because again, it's more than just knowing that there's this truth out
there that you're significant. It's more than that. It's, it's choosing that to step into
the significance, owning it, being it, living it as opposed to agreeing with or acknowledging some
arbitrary truth that's out here and separate from you. And you're just going to believe that it's
true. You have to, you have to kind of own it. You're like, no, I am this. I am significant.
This is who I am. That's what all of those I am declarations do for us is they help us to own
the truth as opposed to cerebral or cerebrally trying to believe something's true, because then
it feels like some arbitrary law that's out here that we're trying to remember.
And we're trying to claim, or we're trying to like convince ourselves of. And instead,
what we have to do is we actually have to own the significance and kind of almost like
feel the weight of ourselves inside. Yeah. Anyway. So it's important in those situations to be
enough for ourselves, like us be enough for ourselves to ourselves. Like in other words,
we are self looking at ourselves and finding that.
not enough for us. Does that make sense? So your spirit,
looking at your soul and your body and saying, you know, yes,
I'm choosing that you are enough for me. And so being that in the
moment is will, and then presenting that, that, that
weight into the room or into a situation is more powerful in
being able to help put you in a position to spiritually shift
things or, you know, to not feel threatened or whatever, then
quote, unquote, doing the right thing. Because you we want to do
the right thing from our character. And we can't access
that unless we've accessed ourselves. But if we're inside
ourselves, in other words, we pull, so to speak into ourselves
where our spirit is looking at our soul and body or like, okay,
you're enough for me. You know, that I'm not separated from you.
I'm not afraid of you, whatever, no, you're enough for
me. And then presenting that, you know, in the situation, so
far, even it's basically my point is where it doesn't, you've
given yourself a habit, how to put this, you've accepted
yourself as you wish that the person that you're with would do
or that you wish God would do. I'm not saying that you don't
believe that. But I'm just saying that there's a degree to
which we're struggling with it. And so you choose yourself
first, even if you can't believe that God accepts you like that
you accept you like that. So you be enough for yourself. And that
will, that will kind of help you kind of like, come back to
yourself, own yourself, give yourself weight, give yourself
significance. And then from that place, who is a son of God?
Well, then you operate with more clarity, your you know better
what to do in a situation without having rehearsed it, you
know, because because you're present. And so you just kind of
act on what you feel and believe and think in the moment, and
trust that as opposed to ignoring yourself, and trying to
go back in your history, and think, okay, based based on past
experiences, or what I've been taught, what should I do?
Yeah, learning, because that's relying on knowledge. So
instead, instead, operate a bit, trust yourself in those moments.
And then operate according to what it feels, what what it
feels like in the moment. And you we can't, I can't tell
everyone that because they're just not at that place. But you
know, you with the Lord, you know, where it is that you are
with the Lord, you can access that place, and access who it is
that you are, and you have matured enough in the Lord,
where if you just pull back to that place, instead of relying
on and rely on, on what naturally comes about of you as
being good as being wise as being spirit led, instead of
just trying to remember all of these do's and don'ts and
wisdom and knowledge from the past, then, then you're able to
to be present, and you're able to actually give yourself to the
situation, which is what is spirit, you're able to give
spirit to the situation, as opposed to knowledge, wisdom,
whatever. Anyway. So let me know if I need to flush that out a
little bit more.
You know, it's helpful. I think that's where I'm getting stuck.
Because, like, it's the disassociation that you talked
about, like, I find myself in situations where I am, like,
disassociating. And so that was, because I feel threatened. I
think the way that you worded that was helpful about being
enough for myself. I think that's where I'm getting stuck
is because I just haven't ever operated that way. Like, I'm
realizing, like, I have, I can't remember a time and not to be
dramatic or anything like that. It's just where I haven't felt
condemned. If I like there have been times where I could say,
Oh, yeah, I chose myself, but it felt really selfish or prideful.
And I like regretted it. Yeah, you know, like, whether even if
it was like in a situation where I was like, sticking up for
myself, because someone was coming at me, and then I would
feel shameful, because I did that, or because, you know, I
lost my temper or all those things. So
so this is what I would recommend that you do in those
situations is to ask yourself this question, instead of the
question that you've been asking yourself, because I'm assuming
that you're like me. So in those situations, what we typically do
is something happens, someone says something to us.
And, and there's something in us that rises and kind of like panics a little bit and automatically
what we do is we leave our body, we go into our head and we say, what should I do?
That's automatically what's expected of me.
What does God expect of me?
And we, and we, and we try to make it sound really Godly, you know, to ourselves, what,
what does God want me to do?
What would Jesus do?
And so instead I recommend that you ask yourself something like that happens and ask yourself,
who am I instead of what should I do?
Who am I?
And then that brings you back into yourself as opposed to, in relying on who you are as
opposed to what you know and what you've heard and what you think.
Because a lot of what it is that we based our thinking and our knowledge on have been
lies that, that were based on and anchored to and, and colored by lies that we were believing
about God or about ourselves.
So they can't, so we can't always trust those because they were just founded on, on old
beliefs, et cetera.
So if thinking about what you should do, let me, let me word it this way.
Think about how it is that you've approached those situations in the past.
If those, man, I know, I know what I'm trying to say.
How do I read that?
Um, uh, basically the, I, what it is that has gotten us into the situation that we're
in can't get us out.
So we have to start doing something very different than the way that we've been doing it.
So however it is, quote unquote, that you've been doing, it hasn't been working.
So we can't use that same modality to get us out of doing, of repeating that same pattern.
And that would be things like, okay, well, what do I need to do?
You know, what does God expect of me?
You know, how should I respond right now?
What would be the wisest, you know, how it is that we've actually approached it?
I believe that that pattern is, has exacerbated the problem.
So following that same pattern, but simply using different rules, so to speak, and like
funneling different thoughts through that same pattern and that same modality isn't
going to fix it.
You need a new structure.
You need a new wine skin.
If you're going to use new wine, that's what I'm trying to say.
So I wish I knew how to explain this better.
It's like, I can see it.
I'm like, I think that's really helpful.
I think, I think I'm picking it up.
I mean, yeah, I think that's going to be challenging.
Not in a bad way, but it's going to be a challenge just, even the, who am I, because
of the disassociation for so long that who am I has been attached to what I have, what
I do.
That's something the Lord has walked me through in many different layers.
Like when it comes to like productivity and things like that, and now this is probably
just another layer of like, I have to detach like who I am versus like, it's not the, what
I do that comes, that defines who I am.
It's who I am that defines what I do.
So and my actions and relationships and things like that, because I think I've just operated
so much out of obligation and, or manipulation, feeling like my back was up against the wall.
And yeah, so, so what, how, like, what would you say, like, okay, let me give you a scenario,
like a real life scenario.
That's probably going to seem minor to you.
Oh, it's good.
Very minor to you.
No, no.
I'm probably can relate, but go ahead.
Okay.
So I probably, we're going to have to start using names because I know I have many siblings,
brother-in-law, sister-in-laws, but I have sister-in-law Jordan, who's married to Bruce's
brother Ross, and they've been married for almost 10 years.
So we've been doing life together for a decade.
They are very different than us, progressive, liberal, like different worldviews, enjoy
being known as the black sheep of the family, et cetera, et cetera.
So it's been volatile, though there have been good times.
There's been a lot of hard times, especially lately, because there's just been distance
and disconnect.
And when we do connect, it's been too long.
And it's, you know, in a family of challengers, people just say what they want to say, and
then it sets people off and all that stuff.
So back in September, that kind of, that happened at the dinner table and Jordan like
went after Bruce because Bruce said something that was challenging, like to his, like he
kind of, you know, he ignited it.
And that is when I started pulling back from like the whole thing.
So we don't see each other very often, though we live in the same city.
We've kind of just have just, you know.
Everyone, Alana is weird too, because people just, it's hard to get together.
Like it's crazy, but it's like, Oh, let's get together.
Okay.
What are you doing in a month?
Like, it's just, Alana is known for that.
So I know it sounds weird to have siblings, like literally 10 minutes away.
And we never see them, but it's like, not even because things are wrong.
It's just, but, um, she is in a, she's in a play that's coming up and it's
like an hour away, like the theater is like an hour, hour, 15 minutes away.
Last year, she was in one.
I, Bruce is not a theater person.
Hannah was young.
So I went by myself.
Cause I'm like, I love the theater.
I want to support her.
The show is coming up and my mom-in-law is like, um, Hey, are you going?
Like, we'll get you a ticket.
And this was like, why we were in California together.
And I was like, actually, I'm just, I don't think I'm going to go.
Cause it's, it's a lot.
It's, it costs my family a lot, not the ticket, but like the time for me to
like coordinate for Bruce and Hannah to be alone for five hours while I go to
theater, you know, all that stuff an hour away.
And I told my mother-in-law like, and she was, you know, she was like, Oh, why?
I was like, honestly, mom, like, I just don't think it's meaningful
to Jordan that I be there.
Like, we just don't have that relationship right now.
Like I was trying to like, yeah, not get gossipy, but you know,
she, she knows things are off.
So it wasn't like I was telling her something new, but I was like, it's
just a lot of effort for something that I don't know if it's going to be entirely
meaningful that I'm even there.
Right.
So that was the situation.
Then we're like, they've come back from California.
We got together with my mother-in-law, like, so they, cause they were
there for business and stuff.
So they were gone for almost a month.
So we get together on Saturday and she's like, Hey, are you wanting to go as if
we never had the conversation?
And this happens frequently, um, In, in front of Bruce.
And I told her, I was like, and I hadn't really had the conversation with Bruce.
I just like, it wasn't even worth bringing it up.
Like, Oh, I'm not going to Jordan's play.
Like, it wasn't even a conversation point.
So he's hearing it for the first time, her asking me this.
And I was like, no, I don't think I'm going to go.
Um, and she's like, Oh, why not?
Like, as if we never had a conversation and Bruce was like, Oh yeah, you can go
if you want, like, cause he just, he thinks like, Oh, Lindsey likes the
theater and I'm like, actually, and we had had some Bruce and I had had some
conversations recently of like, Hey, like I've committed to a lot in the season.
Like I'm in the rest intensive, I'm doing some sessions with another friend.
Like it's taken me away.
Bruce is definitely like supportive of it, but he's made mention of a few times.
It's a different, it's a bit of a different mode.
And so I'm like, I'm not going to like commit to a five hour or something.
That's not even really something like a priority or a value of ours at this
point in time to someone we barely have a relationship with out of like obligation.
Like I'm trying to like, you know, show up for myself.
I didn't say that all to him, but I'm just like, and I was like, I just, in that
moment, I was just like, I didn't want to get into it.
I was just like, you know, I'm not going to go.
I was like, there's just not, it's just not convenient for us in the
season for, for me to go.
And my little, I kind of dropped it.
I'm livid because first of all, I'm like, why are we having this conversation again?
Secondly, I'm like, what the heck, Bruce?
Like I'm, I'm doing, you know, all night afterwards, like I'm at home.
I am so conflicted.
Cause I'm like, should I go to this play?
Like, would it, would it communicate love to Jordan that
I like take the effort to go?
Like, I don't want her to feel unloved by me.
Like, and then it's like this commit, this it's, it's no longer
attached to anyone else, but like, God, like, am I doing something
wrong by just like not going like to the, and I, it seems such a minor
thing, but I think it represents layers of all the, yeah.
And so like, I was really like conflicted of like, I mean, like it.
It was like keeping me up at night, which I know it sounds so minor, but
like, that's what it progressed to.
And there's several things like that that happened, but it was just
such the perfect example of like, correct.
This is what I'm living with.
It's a constant feeling of like, not ever knowing if I'm doing this right.
Yeah, correct.
Yeah, exactly.
So in a scenario like that, with all that you shared, which is really helpful,
like choosing to be enough for myself is more important than quote
unquote doing the right thing.
Cause that's where I was getting stuck.
Like, what is the right thing to do?
Like, do I go, I wouldn't hate it.
I love theater, but it would be, you know, I would have to like
coordinate with Bruce and Hannah.
I would have to drive with my in-laws an hour, a little over an hour.
And I'm like, I don't know if that's the most healthy thing right now.
Like, you know, just cause they wanted to go together.
And so it's all of those layers of things where I'm just like, I just
don't think I have it to give, but like, I could do it.
Like, I actually, I know I could do it.
Oh yeah.
That's not the question.
Yeah.
You could do whatever you needed to do.
My goodness.
Yeah.
Um, well, um.
Sorry, I was I was looking at the notes that I'd written.
Okay.
So one of the things is yet you so in something similar, it's similar to this.
And again, it's part of your learning process.
You remember other people sometimes have learned some of this in high school.
Yeah, I are now learning here.
So they had time and they would try something and see if it worked.
The point is, God is giving you just like
a parent gives a child a safe environment in order to learn what's possible.
You can trust that the Lord will provide you a safe environment with the emotions
of your family and the dynamics of your family and how it is that they receive you
and what is it, how it is that they respond to you and whatever for you to figure this
thing out and so the whole being enough for yourself is like, OK,
you're you have the right to make that decision simply because that's what you
choose and that's what you want regard.
And then sure, between you and the Lord, you'd ask, Lord,
you know, am I am I thinking about this right?
Because you and I are living life together.
And this is the choice that I made based off of like a gut instinct,
you know, which I you know, you teach me to trust myself.
And so, Lord, this part learning process,
am I really connected with who it is that I am in my will
and sensing your will at the same time, even without asking you, I'm sensing it,
Lord, am I understanding this right?
Is this what's been going on?
Because this is what I thought was who you
and I were together about this particular situation.
So how is that? But it's part of a learning.
It's part of you learning this whole situation, you figuring out,
well, you know, is this right or wrong or Lord?
The whole point of it is the development of your relationship with the Lord.
Lord, you know who you and I are living life together.
How's this? How's this going?
This is what I was thinking.
I'm wanting to make a choice, God, based off of where it is that I think
that is reflecting your character and where it is, I think that you are
and where I thought that you were, Lord, was in valuing my family
and not being willing to pay the cost and the price of making this other decision
because of, you know, just the situation.
I just don't think it would mean enough to her.
And it doesn't mean enough to me based off of what it is that I'd be missing here.
It's not that doesn't mean a lot enough to you, a lot to you.
It's that the exchange that you're having to make, you're having to make a choice.
So, well, God, I love this enough that this is what I choose
anyway, and then making it about and that's what I do with my decisions is I make
I learned and it changed everything for me is I just learned even when God didn't
tell me explicitly what to do or meaning like I couldn't hear him tell me
explicitly what to do, I just began to tell him, OK, God,
based on who I know you to be, based on how you and I developed a relationship,
based on who you revealed to me and my spirit that you are,
how you and I are relating to each other these days.
This decision over here looks and feels
like what I am now discovering that I think that you are not what I'm reading
in the Bible and cerebrally trying to analyze and figure out that just,
you know, being the being or this is where I think that you are.
So, God, I'm going to choose since you haven't told me point blank what to do.
I'm going to choose this because this is who I think that you are.
That is why I'm choosing.
And God will create a
God will greatly bless you making that decision strictly off of the reason of why
you chose it, that you didn't choose it from self-protection.
You chose it based off of what the fact
that you are pursuing his character and and strictly for that.
And then if he reveals to you,
he might reveal to you things like he's done with me.
Well, you know, that's not exactly, you know, what I look like and whatever.
But we discover that along the way.
And he's not upset at us because we did
something as opposed to doing something else.
It's the why behind it, et cetera.
And and and so and another thing is that in a situation like that, you have a which
I already kind of mentioned before, is it can be enough for you as in, like,
your will of what it is that you want
matters and has weight.
And it's important to give what's the word you would use for that?
It's important to give it
to.
Acknowledge it. Yes. Uh, there's another word. Why am I struggling with words? Um, to give it a,
I don't know, maybe the word I'm looking for is, is acknowledged to acknowledge it, to give it,
you know, to, to value it, to honor it. That's the word, um, to honor the fact that that is your
will and that's your decision. And it's between you and the Lord as to why you're making that
decision. Are you doing it for selfish reasons? Are you doing it to, for self-preservation? Are
you using it for self-protection? Are you doing it? You know, are you doing things like you're
trying to fix your world because you don't feel safe or are you doing it because no,
me and the Lord are, you know, we're doing life together. And this is what I think and how I feel
about, I don't mean feel emotionally, but I mean like feel spiritually about like the direction
that I and the Lord want to head, you know, together in life. Um, and so I, I would choose
you as in choose to trust that, you know, how to address situations. So that's another thing,
you know, like when you're running into like conflicts or whatever, um, that I've found
extremely powerful that if I, if I was struggling in a situation where I was being required to make
a particular decision, like say for instance, in that one and say, for instance, you had to
make a decision right then is that I would just kind of go with the decision. And then I would,
I would go beyond that. I didn't just allow it to just be a decision because again, I'm trying to
agree with the Lord about things. It's all about the development of my relationship with them. It's
all about trusting and having faith. So I'm like, okay, it's not about what I do or don't do. So
it's not about whether I make this decision or that decision, that's not the point. The point is
why am I making that decision and how do I, and what am I coming into agreement with God about
when I make that decision? So if I make a decision, I trust myself in it because I'm
going to choose myself as in the fact that God going to trust that God has made me, um, what's
the, I don't mean, I was going to say that he's made me wise, but I don't mean wise as in like,
I'm on my own and cerebrally wise. I mean that I have access to the spirit of wisdom that I
operate in the spirit of understanding that I sense the Lord. I desire to always be in his will
and that is how I make decisions. And sure. Sometimes I get it right. And sometimes I don't
because I'm still trying to learn who he is, but I'm making decisions based off of what I know
he is thus far, where it is that I am in the Lord. Well, this is who I think he is. So I'm
going to make a decision from that standpoint. This is my gut reaction towards this thing,
because remember that we can follow our gut quote, unquote, more and more, the more that we
submit ourselves to the Lord and rely on, on him and on his character and on us being enough for
him without relying so much on what it is that we do. We can then trust our gut more because our gut
is being founded in, um, in the, in the fact that we are relying on God as our source.
So it's no wonder that we, a lot of times we don't trust our gut and we have learned that
our gut doesn't always lead us down the right path. If our gut is operated by fear and self
protection to self-preservation, but if we shift into relying more and more on the Lord as our
source, then we can trust our gut more and more as being actual as us being spirit led and meaning
like from our spirit, lowercase S as opposed to always uppercase less. Cause it's obviously yes,
uppercase and lowercase because they're joined. But what I mean, it's not just
relying on the Holy spirit to tell us, you know, sometimes our spirit who's aligned with the Lord
just feels a particular way and we can trust it as opposed to thinking, you know, because more and
more, our gut is being led from our, an alignment with our spirit, as opposed to an unalignment from
our spirit. And that's another reason why I said that it's important for us to strengthen and
exercise that being enough for yourself muscle is to give yourself more and more of an opportunity
to access, to come into agreement with, with, with the Lord that you are enough and that you're perfect.
in that or whatever. And then you can, and the more you come into agreement with that,
the more you operate from and make decisions from that place. And therefore you can trust it.
And so, but, but there, it takes a journey to get there. Yeah. Meaning like you're not,
I don't mean that that you've, as soon as you start acting by your, by your gut, so to speak
that, well, you're obviously going to do it out of your soul. The first, like several times,
you know, I don't mean that. I mean, it just kind of takes a while for us to, um, for us to, uh,
however that to begin to trust ourselves, maybe that's it. And so what I just did is again,
reckless abandon. I'm like, okay, I choose to develop my relationship with the Lord and to
strengthen my, my will as a son of God over getting it right. And the consequences of getting
it wrong while I'm trying to, while I'm trying to stand in this other thing, it's like walking
and falling down. But if you don't try to walk and in order to avoid falling down, well, then
you're never going to walk. It's that kind of a thing. So I had to make a decision, which is more
important to me to fail and to mess up and to quote unquote, bear consequences, even relationally,
because I've had to do this in relationships. I'm still doing it in relationships. I'm telling you
something I'm still living through, especially off of the conversations that you and I've had,
you know, struggles that I've had in certain relationships in my life. I'm still learning
this and stepping out on it, but there are certain other areas that I've already been
doing this in for the past few years. And this is what I did. I made a decision,
which is more important to me, what I'm now recently having to do and what I really appreciate
you being there for me, you know, um, you know, the other day we had that conversation because,
well, I mean, for multiple reasons, but one of which is the fact that I crossed a threshold
bin because I kind of like, it was like it broke something and enabled me to start making a more
of a decision to choose to stand in who I am as the son of God and value that more over the
potential consequences of that I could bear in making possible mistakes in the process.
Cause it's one thing. Yeah. Cause it's one thing if we're like, if we're like, yeah, well, I mean,
it's hard enough for us to bear, to, to, to fear bearing consequences is something that God told
us to do because we're like, well, at least God told me to do it. You know, we can at least do
that. You're not going to give us courage, but you know, like in the face of, in face of like
big, big, awful consequences, but it's another thing. If you, you you're bearing consequence
or you could bear the consequence of you actually making the mistake. Yeah. It's really hard. And
I just had to make a choice, which is more important to me. And honestly, it comes down
to which is more important, God or your life. I mean, that's ultimately what it comes down to.
We can talk as nice as we want about the, like, well, you know, you know, who are you and who are,
you know, all of that, but ultimately it comes down to which is more important, you know, to,
you know, God or, or, you know, the, the life that you live and the effect that it has
on your, on, I don't know, your lifestyle, et cetera. And I made my choice in those other
relationships. And I am telling you what they have. It's it's helped so much. It has strengthened me.
It has freed me all of the sudden things in my life just broke off. Just these shackles just
broke off. And then my life just kind of like took off and just kind of exploded. And now I'm
having to learn to have courage, do it in like new area. You know, it's a little more challenging
and, and so it's like, okay, but I did it in the other one. So I already know,
and I can do it in this one and there's everything to gain. There's heaven to gain.
So anyway, that's, that's, that's ultimately what it is that I had to choose to do is I'm like,
well, I choose to, to mature in this. And I value that more than avoiding the, the consequences of
me doing it wrong because I will do it wrong sometimes. I mean, that's, that's just, I can,
I can just make that assumption in the face of things. I am absolutely going to do it wrong
sometimes. And I still choose this and I'm going to have to apologize. And I'm going to have to
make, I don't want to say make restitution, but let's just say, you know, from a worldly sense,
you know, apologize and do all this stuff. And, and it, oh my word, you know, well,
that sounds humiliating. And then it sounds like, oh my word. And I brought somebody else.
pain. And oh my goodness, how many other people with this effect other than just the two of us,
you know, it's like, okay, yes, but also I choose this over that, over the fact that this will
happen. And I will be going through this, not in everything, but in some things. And then also
I trust that my God is as good as he says that he is, that he is a good parent and that he will
provide me a safe environment to make those mistakes in which when I make those mistakes,
I will not have to bear the full weight of the consequences of what it is I've really done.
Because he helps take away some of that, some of that burden, kind of like a child, you know,
falling out of a tree, breaking his arm, the parents end up taking the majority of that
responsibility. Yeah, it's inconvenient for the kid. He really doesn't like the fact that he
doesn't get to play baseball for several weeks. And he, you know, and he has to keep his arm out
of the shower and it's just such a pain. Kids make fun of him or I don't know, whatever could
happen, you know, that he just doesn't like, but the parents are the ones who are having to get
into the doctor's visits and schedule everything and to work everything out with insurance and
then pay for it and then fight the kid and, and babysit his emotions all day. You know,
the parents really are bearing a lot. So God does the same thing for us. And it doesn't matter that
we're as old as we are learning these things because you know, it's, it, he's still, he's
still our parent, regardless of how old we are in the physical. So my point is that we can
understand that we are given that grace and we haven't missed the, uh, the timing or the phase
in which grace was allowed and permitted. Well, it was, if we had done all this in high school,
you know, then God would have given us grace because that's when he bakes it into everything,
bakes it into the process, you know, whenever you need it. That's good.
Super helpful. Yeah. I think that's exactly like what I needed to hear because, um, it brought,
it just brings a lot of clarity to like the why behind, which, which is like, I wanted, I choose
powerfully choose to do life with the Lord. And I'm willing to choose that over life as I know
it right now, which is so interesting because life as I know it right now, meaning, you know,
with what's going on with the sort of relationships is like not pleasant anyway, but there's this like
fear of making it worse. That's keeping me from like showing up for a, in a better way, right?
Rather the devil we know than the devil we don't. Yeah. I mean, that's just the way it is. It's like,
at least I know how bad this is, but you know what, I also know how to manage it and how to cope
that thing there that's new and that could hurt. Yeah. Uh, Shakespeare talks about that with
Hamlet. Were we talking about that the other day, or was it talking to somebody else about it? I
think I was talking, we weren't talking about Shakespeare. Okay. So in Hamlet, um, you know,
he, he addresses that whole question as far as like, uh, it relates it to suicide, you know,
because he's contemplating suicide and that's his whole to be or not to be speech. Cause that's
referring to, you know, to be meaning like to exist or to not be in a, in die. And then he,
one of the things, and then he goes through this whole little thing. And then at one point,
he said, we all finally, he said with how much struggle that we go through in life,
people, eventually people often get to the point where they're just like, it's not worth it,
but they're like, what keeps them from committing suicide? He said, the fact that he said, everyone
dies and knowing comes back to tell us what, what, you know, what it's like. In other words,
he said, it's unknown. So he said, we'd rather bear the ills we have than fly to others that
we know not of. So, I mean, anyway, it's just this age old thing of like the, our great,
the greatest fear of humanity is the fear of the unknown. Yeah. So, so yeah, that's really helpful.
Well, thank you. You're welcome. I don't know why I feel it was a bit of a downer. I was like,
I hope that she's encouraged. I know I'm really encouraged. I am. I, this is how I kind of take
in process information. I don't know if I've ever told you about this, about me, but someone,
a mentor of mine one time was like, you have to really work on your facial expressions because
you look angry when you're like actually processing information and like listening.
And so I'm like, but it's, it's like, it's just how I like kind of receive it. Cause I'm,
cause I'm processing it, you know, but no, I think I used to do the same thing and I,
and somewhere I stopped, but yeah, I used to the same age as, you know,
and I think I did look mad and I hadn't thought about that in so long because I don't know. I
think my game faces, not my game face, my resting, my resting face. I know I need it. I need a more
pleasant resting face.
So people know that I'm taking it in.
But no, I think that's, I think that's helpful.
I mean, I'm, I'm learning so much.
I think, um, It kind of feels like drinking out of a fire hose sometimes, but
what's been really cool is the Holy spirit has been kind of in it during my
days, like kind of taking pieces of like massaging it in.
So, um, and I have a lot of practice ground and it's interesting that we're
going into the holiday season because like, I'm literally like in two weeks
time where Thanksgiving is like, we're all going to be in a house together.
And Hilton head, South Carolina.
It's Hilton head close to you.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
You might be away for Thanksgiving, but the week we're going to be in Florida.
Okay.
I'm just now realizing that would have been so fun to go through
Atlanta and get to see y'all.
But, um, you know, like on our way, probably on our way back, but, um,
but y'all are, I'm sure we're going to be gone.
So anyway, and we might be having two other people with this.
We're not really sure, but yeah.
Yeah.
We're going that Saturday to Sunday.
We'll be in Hilton head.
So, I mean, like we, um, Ross and Jordan aren't joining us because she's in this
play, which is a whole thing.
Cause like my Bridget, my mother-in-law, which I understand, like I'm a mom, you
want all your kids together?
Like I get it, but it's kind of one of those things.
The people that actually are there have to kind of hear about
the people who aren't there.
Really?
Yeah.
It's just like, like we're, we're here.
Like we're all here.
That's right.
Can we, can we just be enough?
Can we just be enough?
I'm going to have a lot of practice, a lot of opportunity to practice this.
I know, I know that.
Uh, and I wish I could think of another way to articulate it, to describe what it
is that I'm like picturing of just, because I'm picturing you being in those
situations and remembering and knowing myself, you know, current day, um, present
day, being in those situations and what it feels like.
And I wish, you know, God just drop it into her spirit.
Um, I wish I knew how to, how to articulate for you, um, how I recommend doing this
because what, uh, and, and like, kind of like feeling and reverting back to defaulting
to incident in situations where say, for instance, y'all get there the first day
and, and, uh, y'all are going to be there two days.
We're there for a week.
Oh, wow.
You're there for a week.
We're there from Saturday to like the following Sunday, the following Sunday.
Okay.
So anyway, so you get there and, um, first day.
And so the second day you find yourself in a situation, you're like, okay, you
know, I said, I was going to do this, you know, this is, this is me choosing this
over the, over the potential mistake and like actually doing it wrong.
I mean, you may not, but the point is like, you don't know that, you know, and
that's, that's the concern and that is the potential that you are making your
decision in is that is it related to relative to is yeah, but what if, so
anyway, so you're in that situation and then you say something and then regardless
of whether it was right or wrong based people, people didn't respond towards
you and continue to respond towards you in the way that you would wish.
So what do you do?
And that's the thing is you don't cower to yourself, meaning like even inside.
That's why you, you trust yourself.
And one of the things that I wrote down is, you know, you trust that you
know how to address the situation before you, like something comes to you.
Trust that you own yourself, you know, remind yourself who am I?
And then just trust that you, who you are knows how to address the
situation and then address it.
Um, and just, you know, just do your best.
Yeah, because you're not relying on now.
It's no wonder that we're afraid of, of, of, of being wise enough.
If we go to our, if we go to trying to handle it cerebrally, let's try something
new.
No, no, no.
You, you know, pull yourself back into yourself.
Okay. Who am I connect with yourself?
And then go off what a lot of new agers refer to it as, uh, go, go back into your
body, go into your body.
And because they're talking about the fact of stop feeling everything out here
and, and become more present with yourself than disassociating from yourself.
often being aware of your environment. So anyway, it's that kind of a thing. It's like connect with
yourself to apply a bit of weight, you know, to you and your situation. And then so that you can
be present. And then what the, and then from that place of being, of remembering who you are,
meaning like, who does God say that you are? Okay. And by that, I don't mean that you're even
having things go through your mind of like, well, the Lord loves me and I abide in him. I just, I
do that on, on my own time. I do that when I've got time to remember and time to think through
those words in a situation like that. I don't, I don't got time. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Yeah. So in those times, I just revert back to that familiarity because I've practiced what that
place feels like so that I can, I'm familiar with it enough to go back to that place
of connecting with myself and remembering, oh, that's right. I'm significant. I'm valuable.
I'm whatever. So in the, in front and then from that place within you,
um, kind of, uh, live. So in other words, from that place within you, as opposed to here,
what am I supposed to do? We're being aware of, you know, your mother-in-law here and so-and-so
here, and oh my goodness, what's going to happen out in the environment. You're leaving yourself.
You know, you keep yourself in yourself. And then from there, from that place,
being very aware of who you are instead of who everybody else is, then what, then start acting
from you, what, what, what naturally comes because you're good and you're loving and you don't have
to be afraid of you. So you shouldn't. So sometimes we disassociate because we're afraid of ourselves.
We're afraid that we're going to bring destruction. And so trust instead that you are not
going to bring destruction to the situation. You're not going to bring it to yourself. Instead,
one of those things, when you say, who am I? And, you know, value and significance is that you
inside your life. And you're now bringing that life in from you into the situation. Yeah. But
you can't do that if you're disconnected from yourself. So you pull yourself away from,
okay, mom's here and someone says here, and oh my goodness, you know, what could happen? And
it's really hard. It's so interesting. Once you finally realize how much we live out here,
then it becomes, I don't know. It just becomes easier to be aware of like pulling into oneself
and associating with oneself again, and then living from that place. But a lot of times the
new wagers refer to it as come back into your body. Yeah. That's how they, or drop down into
your body. That's what they say. When you're up and talking about being up in your head,
they'll say, drop down into your body. In other words, take your consciousness and start operating
from, from here. That's a good way to put it. Instead of your consciousness being from here,
drop your consciousness down here, which I know you can't see, but you know, down here,
your consciousness down here and operate from there. Uh, not that I know where everything
connects, but I think that I heard one. I think that I heard from one of the teachers
that, um, one of the mystic teachers that, uh, that your soul connects to your body,
um, in your stomach. I think it's well. So Susie, who's in our kingdom messengers group,
like she talks about this, she talks about often the, when the Greek is translated for mind,
it's actually gut. Oh, cool. So like, and you know, like you're, you're, um, like, you know,
you're kind of, you're, you're inner man. Yes. What it's translated as mine, but it's actually
like, um, I forgot what the word is, but yeah, that's what she teaches on. She said, you know,
if we train, if we actually translate it correctly, it would change our, even the way that we think
about our intimacy with the Lord and our connection point with the Lord. Cause we're, we're trying to
do everything, which is, which is soulless, you know, our mind we're trying to, you know,
do that versus actually like operating from your inner self with the Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Yeah. If that's helpful to kind of like, like what Susie was saying, you know,
just operating from, you know, you move your consciousness from here to recognizing it to
be down here and then moving out from there. And I don't mean like you're, I wish I knew how to
I just kind of like in giving these pictures of, oh yeah. I mean, it makes sense to drive
your consciousness down in here and then began to, to interact as opposed to trying to figure
out the situation, figure out if you're safe, figure out how to handle it, predict what could
happen if you say it, you know, and all of that releases you from strategizing. Yes. Which I've,
you know, I've started releasing myself from like, I'm, Hey, I'm not thinking.
Looking ahead into this week and like, you know, so-and-so acts this way because they
always do.
What am I going to say?
Like I'm releasing myself from all of that because I'm, I want to surrender the outcome
to the Lord anyway.
So I'm not going to spend my, I'm not going to exhaust myself trying to strategize for
potential scenarios, which is easy for an overanalyzer to do.
Yes.
You know, cause we're like thinking about all the what ifs and, and that's relying on,
like you said, that that's been relying on knowledge.
And that is the old wineskin and old strategizing and thinking about situations, the old wineskin
that just can't accommodate is that new pattern in that, that old pattern and that old modality
that just won't accommodate the new.
And but anyway, so that, so another thing, another thing to just kind of continue the
picture that I was trying to paint is in your situation, you just operate from who
it is that you actually are, you know, just like what feels natural.
You know, what do I believe me?
Who's now connected with the life of spirit within me?
What does that life want to give?
How does it just naturally move?
And then, you know, you present that or whatever, and then chips fall where they may people,
you know, respond to however, and you never know, it could be like full of all kinds of
great life, you know, or they could be like, well, this is the new Lindsay, we don't know
what to do with this, you know, or we don't like this or this, you know, whatever.
And and then it could then affect things for the next and I'm just painting a picture of
like, what's possible, like it could affect interactions, you know, for the next few days,
or you just think that it does, it's possible that no one acts any different, but then you
could start in your mind going on my word, you know, you're the one who's remembering
it, and you're the one who's thinking about it a lot, etc.
And so when those types of situations, I stopped thinking about it, I just allow the situation
to just be I don't analyze it and figure out, well, how good did I do?
You know, do I think that I follow my gut?
Do I just like just let it be and then move on.
And that's one of my other practices that I would do is I would trust myself enough
I've practiced to trust myself enough to allow me to just operate without having to
second guess myself.
So just releasing myself from it and just keep going.
And then just just trust that it was all okay, and that was going to be okay.
And that whatever now you can ask, you can talk to the Lord about those types of things.
But a lot of it, it's, I didn't talk to him so much about stuff as much as I would just
kind of like sense and feel things.
And then it wasn't like this big, like conversation I would have.
But anyway, I would just go throughout the day and then that night going to bed, you
know, just trusting that I knew how to handle the situation and trusting that even if I
did mess up, I'm still fine.
No condemnation.
And just, again, choosing that to choosing my development as a son of God over doing
it right.
And if I did it wrong to how to fix it, I choose this instead.
Now in choosing this, but if you quote unquote did it wrong, in other words, there was damage
or whatever that God wants you to, to like, I don't, I don't know, like somebody's feelings
got hurt, you know, or whatever.
Well, then what is you as the son of God or the one though, who needs you operating as
a son of God or the one who needs to bring life into that situation.
So again, you still need to choose this one, not from analyzing the situation, questioning
the situation, questioning how you did it, apologizing from this place, then it's that
old cycle.
It's just obligation.
Yes.
It's that old wine skin, even though you're doing the right thing of like you apologize
and you make sure that they feel loved and whatever, it's going to exacerbate the problem
because it's still from the old structure as opposed to a son of God, repenting, making
someone make sure that somebody, somebody's hurt feelings get addressed.
That's what I'm trying to say.
It's not that you should, that there's necessarily an apology to make depending on the situation.
It's more usually just the fact that someone else's feelings got hurt and they just kind
of need to be addressed.
They need to be known that, you know, you do love them or whatever, you know, but it
needs to be from this place because this is what's life giving and the old one couldn't
do it.
The old owner was just, was just with Lindsay, disassociating was Lindsay, not feeling valued
Lindsay, not being present and just trying to do everything right.
And that can't bring life to making someone's feelings be addressed.
They can't bring life.
Only the spirit can not the doing of something right.
Following a particular protocol, it's socially agreed upon protocol or a cycle.
logically agree upon protocol.
You can do this.
If this is all you can manage.
And God's fine with that.
He was like, Hey, that's where you are.
I'm just saying that you're free of being obligated to that.
And you can choose this operating from this place.
And it's very challenging because if we're so results driven, or if we're so.
Driven as to what was right.
Did I do it right?
Regardless of what I did, Lord, was it right?
You know, regardless of doing it or whatever, is it just right anyway?
Yeah, that is so helpful because that are like, the Lord was just reminding me, like
he told me back in September when I was facing a similar situation, like you just
need to focus on responding according to who you are not reacting according to what
other people are, have done or haven't done.
And so like, that just, what you shared was like, okay, that's what it actually
looks like, you know, of like showing up responding according to who I actually am
like spirit, Lindsay, son of God, Lindsay, instead of reacting to the hurt feelings
and feeling like, okay, well, I have to like react to this.
No, I'm actually coming, responding according to who I am bringing life to the
situation.
Yeah.
And still not responsible for how that response.
Yeah.
I mean, order to the storm.
And when God brought order to the storm, he didn't rebuke it.
He just simply said, peace, be still say, Hey, look, you've done something wrong.
You know, just cut it out.
It was very kind.
He would just like, Hey, be peaceful.
He didn't rebuke it for what it was doing.
It was just like, Hey, here's a, here's a new way to operate.
In other words, the same thing in speaking to other people's feelings.
It's just, it's just bringing him comfort as opposed to addressing that.
I don't know if something wrong was done or I don't know, just whatever, but it's
just speaking.
Um, and that's what kind of like brings life to it is just the fact that someone
feels noticed and heard.
And I don't know.
Anyway, but, um, I don't know if that made any sense, but that's really helpful.
Yeah, that's really good.
Anyway, it's amazing.
So I'm sorry that you're going through such a challenging time as in like soul
stretching and it's, um, and then there's just, I don't know, just wanting to always,
you know, this, this heart of just always wanting to handle it right.
And then it being in such delicate relationships, I think I'm going to take
extra care of, yeah, I think I'm grieving what could have been, but not actually
like, I coming to terms with like, I thought I was grieving what was, but I
think I'm grieving what could have been.
Because like, it actually wasn't what, you know, there was tension before.
Um, you know, it wasn't like great before, but I think there was a lot of band-aiding
and like overlooking things and people kind of ignoring the elephants in the room.
And then when everything exploded, there was no more, there's, you couldn't, there
wasn't a band-aid big enough.
Right.
But, um, but I do have hope even in the heart, like even yesterday I had this, it
was exhausted, but I was hopeful that like, I think this is part of like the
Lord, like cleaning out the ditch, if you will, and, and bringing restoration and
it, and it's okay if it doesn't look the way I wanted it to, because I trust him
that it's going to be bigger, better, brighter.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, uh, remember that you and your spirit are what God put in the situation.
And I'm now seeing this and I'm thinking my husband just left it for me.
He leaves little chocolates for me.
That's really sweet.
He probably thought I was going to be sitting here.
And so he gave me chocolate.
Um, but, um, oh dear.
Now I got off track.
What was I saying?
Um, I was just saying, I said, you know, it'll be bigger, brighter, better.
And then you, oh yeah, because it's your spirit that, which is the re that, um,
that God gave to them when he knew what it is that they needed.
And so you have to present that in order for what all of the healing, the
restoration, the life, the hope, the possibility that God intends to be
brought into their life to be brought in, you know, it, then we have
to actually present ourselves.
You actually have to present that spirit and not hide it and everything.
And so that's another thing that gives us a bit of like freedom to step into
it because we've been given, it's even more than permission.
It's like understanding, oh, this is why we were created.
This is why we were given.
And so that gives us a bit of, um, like I said, just a bit of courage.
Um, permission that we had that permission.
Um,
So interesting that you said that because this lady that I'm meeting with
Holly, who works with like, basically.
Kind of trauma driven, physical ailment stuff,
and we got connected and all that stuff, but.
Part of her sessions, which are really like more inner healing sessions.
Like it's not talk therapy.
She's kind of leading you to like discovery by asking some questions and
then listening.
But one of the things that came out of our session was,
was this declaration. Cause she's all about, you know,
releasing things and then replacing it with like the truth.
But, but, but she doesn't tell you like, this is your new declaration.
Like you kind of discover it. And like, it just came, it came,
it literally came from me that like,
I need to start declaring and believing that I am who I'm meant to be.
Like I was made.
I was meant to be it's what God intended and it's what the world needs.
And I think exactly what you're like confirming. It's like.
Yeah.
It's like, I need to like,
who I am is who I'm meant to be.
I need to like, allow myself to give, you know, like you're saying,
like own who I am not like withdrawal or
diminish or hide.
Because I'm feeling threatened because it's like actually what.
The P it's what the world needs, what the people around me.
And so it was just a cool little.
I don't know.
I think it's great.
So you can give that.
And then you can operate from the moment.
So you can give that.
Ask yourself in the moment. Who am I?
Who am I?
So that you can be present.
And then operate from who you are.
So that reconnect with it. Operate from who you are.
So that.
What God intended to be brought in, can be brought in.
It's amazing to me. Like, I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's something that I operate in now, but I just,
it's amazing to me how much.
That how subtle that is,
where you're almost afraid to ask who I am because you're afraid that
you're not going to like.
That, you know,
Discover yourself to be like,
and there's many ways that religion kind of tries to trap you in that.
Yeah.
It's a very subtle, which is like, not necessarily unbiblical,
but it's kind of religion paints it as a way that like,
actually just makes you very self-centered because you're constantly.
Yeah.
Focused on yourself in a negative way.
Like, you know,
and so, yeah, this is very freeing.
Cause I feel like it's the right, I feel like it's like.
Yeah.
So anyway, a lot of dots are connecting. So.
Oh, good.
It's good.
It honestly is all.
I'm going to make a quick comment.
I don't want to make it too big for everybody. It really is very simple.
It's just that all of the talking.
I mean, addressing it from different perspectives.
Is simply to help us dismantle.
All of our resistance to it.
All of the why nots that were subconsciously coming up with or the,
the reasons.
Yeah, but what about, yeah, but what about, yeah.
But what when this happens or yeah, but what about.
Yeah.
You are with a situation needs show, show up.
Yeah.
Choose yourself so that you you've got you,
you bring your weight into the situation. In other words,
you're what other people refer to as you be present.
Yeah.
And in being present.
You operate from who it is that you are,
as opposed to what it is that you have been.
Indoctrinated with.
Yeah.
You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not,
you're not a rational person or, or whatever.
And then, and then, oh, we.
Because you're coming into agreement with the fact that you are,
who God says that you are. He's valuable.
He says that you can be trusted.
He says that you come up with good ideas.
You know,
Whatever.
And so you're just, you're just asking the Lord.
And what we're doing is we're learning with the Lord. Okay, Lord,
discovering with the Lord. Okay, Lord.
Who am I already? Not who am I becoming?
I already am the thing.
I'm just growing into it.
Yeah.
I'm I'm filling it out.
But I'm already the thing.
Well, I was going to mention something, but it's kind of like a.
That's kind of like.
got a side note to it. So don't worry about that. But yeah,
I think we're unlearning complexity and that's why it feels complex.
Exactly. So that's another way that I tell people is I'm like,
what you're doing is you're bringing in the complexity of the world because the
world is very complex. And so we just think, okay, well,
I'm just supposed to exchange all of the,
all of the things that the world says about this with an equal
thing from God about how to address that.
And then here's another next complex thing. Okay.
Now what does God say about that next complex thing as opposed to, no,
God's just very simple. Just throw out the complexity all together.
God's one thing addresses like a gajillion of the complexities. You know,
it's not a one for one exchange. It's like a one per million.
I wonder if it's like, you know, I'm coming back to John 10,
10 Jesus says like the thief has come to steal, kill and destroy.
And I've come to give you life abundantly.
And once you like make that switch and you're like new creation,
like life is simple and death becomes complex. Yeah.
So when you live in a system, like when the world, you know,
everything's operating out of death or the knowledge of good and evil,
like it's actually because you're in,
because you're in abundant life now in Christ death is complex, but like,
we we've made the switch, like we are new creations,
but we're still tying ourselves to the complexity of anyway,
I'm just thinking out loud. Just, yeah. I think that's,
I think that it, we're trying to keep it up. Yeah.
Yeah. Like just make the switch. Yeah.
I mean, it's so simple and,
and free that Paul had to say, you know,
don't use your freedom as a license to sin. It was that open.
Like he said, everything is permissible,
but not everything is edifying. He said, everything is permissible,
all my word. And then he had to say,
don't use your freedom as a license to sin,
because it's absolutely possible to do because we're going from all of these
rules to essentially speaking, none,
yeah, there are no rules.
It's just that God calls us to operate out of our being,
which is,
carries the DNA of God's character and to be from that
place, which is always good,
but it's not good because there was an evil because God was always good,
even before there was evil. So it's just good as simply God's character.
So we just operate from according from God's character.
There's that much freedom and there's no,
there's no accountability to anything outside of God's character.
There's no accountability to anything outside of just being,
just have to learn who, who that being is. In other words, who are we?
You know, so we're just, we're flushing it out. We're going into it.
We're filling it out, but but we already are the thing. Yeah.
We're just asking the Lord, okay, Lord,
can you father me into what does this look like?
And and what do I have? How do I access it?
Et cetera.
And the fascinating thing is that when the older son talked
to the father, the accusation that he had, wasn't about,
he wasn't upset with the prodigal son. He was upset with the father.
He was like, you didn't do that. You didn't do that.
And the father didn't even say, all you had to do is ask. He said, all you,
he said, all, everything that I have has always been yours.
All you had to do was take it. He didn't use that phrase,
but I don't remember how he phrased it, but whatever it was that the,
the implications were, all you had to do was take it for yourself.
It wasn't all you had to do was ask me for it. It, he said, all,
everything I have has always been yours.
Not everything I have transitioned to you or everything or everything that I
have is available upon simple request. He said,
it's already yours. So use it.
So all we have to, we don't even have to have permission,
so to speak to step into it. The thing is though, the estate is so big.
We're like, okay, God, what's available. Okay.
And this is a really cool thing. What do I do with it?
And how does this benefit me? You know,
so we're learning what it is that's out there and then how to use,
you know, in God's character, what it is that we discover and what it is that we
find. But he doesn't even say that we need to ask,
ask for even didn't even say that we told
that didn't even tell the older son that he needed to ask for permission.
He just said, use it. It's there. Yeah. Because you don't have to ask permission for what's
already yours. Yeah. For what not. Yeah. Ownership is your own it. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously,
you know, he just wants us to rely on him to father us and how to use it. Kind of like,
you don't give your child the keys to the car. Right. But at the same time, you know, he's just
so he says that it's ours and it's available. But we also have to submit ourselves to his
teaching us how to use the thing. So, yeah, it's interesting because this is just a way of
processing with a peer. But, you know, when we find like the new agers, for instance,
in ancient Eastern medicine, things that are biblically rooted or biblical principles and
people are getting results. It's is do you feel like it's like God has given us the thing,
but some people have not chosen him to be a part of the process? Oh, absolutely. They're
getting the results, but it's obviously going to lead to death. But that's like that's kind of the
prodigal big brother situation where that's exactly it. And God said, I've given it to all
of my sons. Yeah. But some took it, separated it from me and are using it. And God enabled them.
He enabled them to do it there. Joe Dispenza is doing healing sessions, healing conferences or
whatever. They're healing and it's working and whatever. So it just Moses addresses this with
Israelites, the second group, the the sons of the Israelites that came out of Egypt, you know,
after four years, you know, they come back around to the to Canaan again. And he was going through
the whole situation. He was telling him what had happened with their forefathers and whatever.
And then he said, you know, your fathers didn't came to Canaan and they basically said, no,
the Antichrists are too big. I think it was the Antichrists. The Antichrists are too big.
You know, they're giants, even though God said, hey, look, you are my firstborn son and I've
given you the land. You know, I have chosen you and I have given you the land. So I've given you
everything I've given you. I've given I've chosen you and I've given you a promise that, hey,
you've got everything what I'm already want. I will get I've already given you the land, not I
will already given you the land. And then and then they said, oh, no, no, the giants are too big,
et cetera. Well, the then Moses gave three examples of non-Israelite groups that actually
believed God believed that they could have something. But it doesn't even say that God
gave them a promise of it. And then they took it and God blessed them because of it. In fact,
he didn't even allow the Israelites to set foot on their land because he honored the fact, you
know, that they did it. And of course, it was the Moabites and the Ammonites, which are the
descendants of Lot. So in other words, they're their forefather, Abraham, and they're not their
ancestors, but their family through Abraham. And then another two generations later to Esau,
the Edomites. So all three of those groups who were the Israelites family. Yeah, they but they
weren't the chosen. Right. It says that they all fought the same group of people, the Anakites.
Now it says that one of them, I think, you know, it says that they had different names because it
says they were the Anakites, but then they were the but they were or they were they were like a
not an offshoot of the Anakites, but they were related to the Anakites or they were
like the Anakites or they were whatever. Anyway, it compares all of the people groups that they
conquered. It compared all of them to the Anakites. And if I'm not mistaken, that they were,
it was like they were all related. They were related to him. So in other words, same blood
line, the same giantessness, the same obstacle that the Israelites had said, Oh no, it's because
of this, they are too big. They are to whatever it's these reasons why we can't do it. Well,
and then Moses told their sons, he said, Hey, look, you've got three other family member groups
who weren't chosen, that there is no record in the Bible, at least that I remember that God ever
promised to any of them that they could take the land. They just didn't know why they couldn't.
So they just did. And so they didn't have the promise. They were not the chosen and yet they
didn't know why they couldn't take it. So sure. They, they conquered the same groups of people,
the same giant groups of people. And in fact, and it says that
God gave them, it said at the end, and God gave them the land. And then it said,
and you Israelites are not allowed to set foot on it. Not wild. And so it's the same idea is like,
Hey, look, you know, those people are believing God and God isn't even giving them an invitation.
Yeah. You know, not giving them a promise. I don't want to say that he's not giving
me an invitation, but you know, he's not giving him a promise. He didn't choose them.
And, um, and then they're just pursuing possibility. Yeah, exactly. And people that
are healing and yeah. And the name or whatever, and we're given the possibility and the promise
point blank. And we're going, Oh, no, no, no. It's too big. I'm too afraid. What if I fail?
What if I, if I misinterpreted and God really didn't mean that.
I mean, there's many, there's many that are, you know, I mean, I, I know I spoke to you about this
with the birth thing. I mean, there's so many new agers right now that are literally having
supernatural births. Yeah. Cause they just, they just pursue the possibility that it's possible.
And Oh, we're not subject to pain and Oh, we're not threatened in the state. And when we realize
that. Breatharians. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
breatharians. It's when we realize that we're, it's actually pleasurable. What used to be a
painful process. Meanwhile, we have Christians combating each other because how dare you would
even suggest that we could have childbirth without pain. Yeah, exactly. And, and then,
and then I don't know if you've heard of breatharians before. No people who don't eat.
And then Chris makes mention of like, I mean, he doesn't, he makes mention of like,
who is the guy that he's certainly delinear. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So he's a breatharian. But anyway,
so there are breatharians are people, you know, who don't, you don't eat. And then,
and there are people who have given birth that do not eat. I mean, how do you do that?
Gosh, but anyway, so they, and I always wondered is like, well, so what happened after the baby
was born? Did you, did you feed it? Like, did you nurse it? Or, you know, was it like a crack baby
only on the opposite end of the spectrum? Was it born not needing to eat? I mean, I don't know. So
I don't know. I always wondered, I think there's a documentary out there that I heard of and I
thought, Oh, I want to watch that documentary. And I knew enough of it to hear, maybe Ed watched it.
I don't remember. Anyway, I thought I need to watch that, but in it, one of them was pregnant
and she had given birth as a breatharian. I was like, that's wild. So I know these people,
they're all just going, well, why not? Why not try? And we're given explicit permission and an
invitation and we're empowered and we're like, yeah, but what if, and we're just so afraid we
become more aware of rules and sin in becoming Christians than we were before Christians. And so
that's what we've, that's what we've done is that we've, we, and you and I don't really know any
other life cause we, we've always been Christian. Yeah. We've always known hard. We've always,
yeah. Intense. Yeah. It's always intense. You know, we've always known we were bad.
Isn't that awful is that we've always been taught, you know, and we've always been in this world in
which you're supposed to approach yourself as being horrible and you can't be trusted. And you're,
you're inherently, inherently bad. Yeah. That you're inherently bad. Yeah. In that while,
in fact, I had someone tell, asked me one time there, it's like two years ago, they asked me,
they asked me, you know, well, Ashley, I was wondering, you know, if we don't have
as if we're not supposed to, you know, live in shame and condemnation,
how do we, how do I give my children an understanding of their need for the savior?
Because God's good, regardless of whether there's evil,
so because you want them to be drawn to the good, as opposed to simply using God as a default
of an escape from the bad. Yeah. You don't, you know, God is good. Not because he's not this
that's a destruction or just, what did they call that? A destruction,
uh, oh man, destructionist, um, theory or something like that deconstruction. That's
what a deconstruction theory, which is the idea that something doesn't have an intrinsic value
for what it is. It's it's value is in what it's not. So in other words, that theory is the idea
that a is.
a not because it's a, but because it's not B or C or D or E or anything else.
And that's it's only value. And that puts its value on the existence of everything else,
which means it has no value because it's only value comes from the existence of everything
else, which it's not. And it's very other than, I mean, it's just like, that's what it's called.
The deconstructionist theory is because, but, but that's what it is that we, that we've done
with the gospel as well. That is this idea that we're just, that we're horrible and we have no
value. And so no wonder we find it hard for us to, um, to believe that God loves us. Right.
It's because we're, we're actually taught, no, you don't love you. You think of yourself as
very bad and you're a problem. And actually I wrote this for, for, um, the lady I was doing,
um, the, uh, the, what do you call it? The, um, the transformation session for, and I said,
what we, what we've done, I pictured it kind of like it's two different, two different ways,
kind of like we, um, that we believe that we, this is who we are and that we've just been
covered over with the blood of Jesus. So that's all that God looks at, but we're still, we know
who it is that we still really are, you know? And so in other words, that idea means that we've
never changed. So we're still always bad. We're still a sinner. And aren't we just glad that God
hasn't like, you know, cast us into hell. And aren't we glad that he's going to let us live
with him, you know? Um, or we think of ourselves as being in Christ, but in completely in him,
but we still feel like, you know, we're still, we're still, I don't know, bad in that. And God
says, no, you are the old man died and you are the new man, but we don't ever let, we don't let
each other be the new man. We're always judging each other for being the old man and for being
wrong all the time. And for always, and we're calling it discernment. It's just like, why,
why does everybody have to be treated so imbued is so bad all the time and approached as, as bad
as opposed to as good. And so when people took, when I talked to people about, about how to govern
in relationships, et cetera, but I think Liberty asked me this the other day on, on a, like a
fireside chat or something. And I was, and she was asking, well, um, how do you view people,
especially non-Christians? So, and the way that I learned that was with non-Christians
of how to view them. And I, and I, and I actually did it kind of with that, uh, with that, that,
uh, bully that I ran into at work and I had ran into is that I wasn't like with him all day,
every day, but that bully that I had at work that, um, and I just asked God, God, would you show me?
It was more that I knew in my, in my spirit that it needed to be more significant than what would
Jesus do? No, Jesus, how do you see him? How do you see him? And would you help me to see him?
Like when I interact with him and I look at him that I see him, like you see him. And so I began
to wonder what is that really? And then I began to think, well, you know, if God created all of this
and God only creates good things, why can't I see him like that? Why do I have to see him
as the him that he's presenting himself to me as, which is fear and insecurity and all of this.
That's not who he is. That's who he thinks he is. And that's who he's projecting. But I don't have
to see who he is trying to present himself as I can see who it is that he really is. And then I
just interact with that person. I interact with who it is that he really is. Um, and, but then
obviously, you know, that, that means it's not like I have to, um, put myself in trusting
situations with him or whatever, because I know how he's going to have a tendency to act. And yet
I still see him according to who it is that God created him to be, which is he's intrinsically,
you know, he's born of the Lord and he's, he's good. And, you know, and all of that, he just
doesn't know it. And he's not coming into agreement with the Lord, you know, about all of those
things. And anyway, so it completely changed everything. And because I saw him like that,
it brought a particular measure of, um, how would you put that? It was like me telling the wind in
the ways to be, to be, um, you know, peace be still, I now had the authority because I saw
him as God saw him. I now had the authority to, um, uh,
It was, it was as if he's here.
And instead of seeing him like that and interacting with him like that, I saw
him from seeing myself like this.
Then I could see this is who he was.
And I would talk to this person and then he would suddenly realize, oh my word.
It's almost like I was shining a light on the fact that he was this person.
And he was like, I didn't know that I was that person.
It's like somebody calling your name for the first time and you never
heard it and yet you're like, that's my name.
I've never been called that before.
I know that that was my name, but I had that power in the, because
I'm operating out of, out of the spirit.
And my point is it then it's so powerful that it has an opportunity to change
someone because it gives them something to respond to because it gives
them the spirit to respond to.
And, um, and it's, but if, if I'm just giving them my soul, well, that's not
anything, um, of the kingly power to respond to, but if I give them my spirit,
then it gives them God himself to, to choose to respond to.
Um, so even the, and a soul will recognize another son of God, their
spirit, their own spirit always has the most authority over them, but
somebody else's spirit can, um, uh, uh, their soul can recognize the
authority of another, of the spirit of another son of God talking to it.
It doesn't ever usurp the power and the authority of its own spirit and what
and what it's deciding, but it can call it to attention.
It recognizes something and it can give it an opportunity to rise up because
if their spirit is dead, in other words, there's like some disconnect or
whatever, you know, we're giving them an opportunity to, you know, like what
we've been saying, you know, have something to respond to makes all
the difference in the world.
I saw just some, some shocking things and, and, um, I don't know.
I think I ran into some situations recently and I was kind of like
thinking through them and I thought, oh my word, you know, and I was like,
I've been finding these really hard.
And I thought, you know, and this is nothing compared to the
situation that I was in, you know, and I was remembering that corporate
job and I thought I'd forgotten how hard that was, that was hell on earth.
That was awful.
I mean, a grown woman walking into walking back home.
And as soon as I walk in the door, my mom asked me, actually, you know, how
are you doing?
How are you, you know, how did today go?
I couldn't even talk.
I'm a very strong person.
I couldn't even talk.
I just burst into tears and I'm a grown woman who's leading like this project
of like 45 people across continents, you know, and all of this stuff.
And I walk, it was just awful.
And I'd forgotten how bad it was.
Um, but I, it wasn't bad for as long as it was powerfully good.
Because that was a shorter time.
It felt like forever.
It felt like the majority of the time, but when I look back on it, I realized
relatively, it was a very short period of time and I had all of the time
after that to reap the reward.
Yeah.
And, um, anyway, but that's how I learned these things about, about
relationships was, um, I'd learned in another situations as well, but that
one just was so extreme that I learned a lot, but yeah, it was how to, how do
you, uh, it was the effect that our spirits have on people, even on nonbelievers.
When we see them as crises, then we have to see them through the eyes of our
spirit, not the eyes of our soul.
And, um, and that's, and it's only from that position that we actually have any
authority to speak order into a situation and call creation, including another
person's soul to rise up and to shift, et cetera.
And the same thing, you know, with you and your relationships, the relationships
that you're finding yourself in, even though they're all Christians, it's that
when you show up from your, in the strength of your spirit, as opposed to
even strengthen your soul or the wisdom, you know, and knowledge and relying on
past experiences and whatever, to figure things out and do things the right way.
You know, if you show up as your spirit, it actually, literally, that's what
creation, those situations are waiting for is a son of God to be in the situation
and show up as a son of God.
And all of a sudden a creation can, can, has the opportunity to change now.
Sure.
Another thing that will happen.
And I don't know if I should tell you this or not, but you're mature enough
that I know that you won't in the Lord that you know, to not get scared, just
to receive it as like, oh, that's an interesting possibility.
But that is the fact that one of the things that I learned is that, and this
can happen with relationships, but, um, uh, one of the things that I learned.
in my business career is that I had the tendency that when I came into, when the Lord brought me
into a situation or into a team or into a project or into a company, all hell would break loose.
I mean, everything would get worse. I mean, when we're talking about worse, we're talking like
really bad, like the wheels start falling off bad. And I start, and it happened so many times
that I began to ask the Lord, Lord, am I destructive? And of course, this is before I
learned about rest and all of that. And so of course, I'm, I'm living all my life in condemnation
and everything. And I asked the Lord, Lord, am I that destructive that my presence, God,
it has, it has, it creates a pattern that I now can't ignore. All of these years in, I cannot
ignore it. And I've noticed that when I come into a situation that all hell breaks loose,
everything, it was going fine. And now everything, all the wheels are coming off. And I asked him,
Lord, do I bring destruction? Is there something about me in the spirit that's causing these
things to happen? And basically he was like, yeah, it's like, because you're bringing in the kingdom
and you're bringing in light. So that which is not in alignment, all of this sudden has to shift
in order to come into alignment because everything now has to respond and it's having to choose
how it's going to respond. Interesting. And so there's all of this stuff, Ashley,
all of that stuff was already present. You didn't cause something, all of that was already there,
but the other authorities allowed it to be there. They didn't require a different kind of,
they didn't bring in a different standard. You brought in a new standard and everything in the
spirit now has to realign to that new standard. And there's going to be a lot of resistance
to the adjustment and the shifting of, into alignment. And so everything, every aspect of
creation, including people's souls on this project or the project itself and the systems and
whatever, um, everything has an opportunity and a will to choose how it wants to respond.
And you don't get to choose that, but Ashley, you, um, you don't get to choose how they respond.
They get to choose that including systems. So not even just people and souls, but actually systems,
they get to choose how they want to respond. However, if, if that, if they do not come into
alignment, that was just not con that continues to resist and refuses to come into alignment
will be removed because it cannot stay. And, and so I watched it. There would just
be things that God would just remove from the situation because they refuse to come into
alignment. Um, and I'm trying to, and I don't think, Oh no, I think there may have been,
there may have been some situations, um, in which God eventually just moved me because the
situations wouldn't come into alignment. They went to a certain point and then they
wouldn't pass a certain point. And then I was moved out because there was an absolute refusal.
You know, that lawsuit, I suppose, for instance, would probably be seen as that is like,
we're works, you know, so long and there was so much progress and there were people shifting.
And then all of a sudden, you know, the Lord's like, okay, you know, they've had their chance,
they've had their choice and they're putting up that they've made certain,
certain people have made certain decisions. So that would, they're willing to come into
alignment. They are in the rest of it. I'm going to now remove you. So anyway, so the thing is
that when the spirit comes in and the spirit is brings an authority into a situation, into a
relationship or in an environment that which is not an alignment becomes a very evident.
And it, all of a sudden it's like, it should, it shakes it. I don't want to say that shakes
everything. It just means all of a sudden, sometimes you can have bit of chaos. It can
work, look worse before it looks better because things are, things are shifting. Yeah. And,
and, and it's not that we're causing something and that we're actually creating destructions,
like everything was fine. And then I messed it up. It's like, no, you brought in the authority
of the kingdom. And then God's just requiring that everything come into alignment and everything is
shifting. And that which is in a resistance to the alignment, if it continues to resist and doesn't
shift, well, then it'll be removed. That, I mean, we see that in the life of Jesus.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, he would enter, he would enter cities and chaos would,
you know, the religious system, but also there'd be mobs and yeah.
They thought that, oh my word, you know, this guy is walking around and creating all these problems.
So the problems were always there, but everyone was willing to, no one, no one held them
accountable to anything different spiritually held them accountable to any other standard.
When you bring in the kingdom, if there's a new standard and everything.
has to everything is forced to now make a choice, man, not bringing that new, new,
new standard, nothing, no choice is required and a new choice is now required.
You don't get to pick what choice everyone makes, including the system.
Including like, for instance, your family system and how it functions.
Don't get to choose whether or not, how, how the people respond or
how the system itself functions.
But, um, uh, usually, well, at least from my experience, usually the, you know,
being submitted to the Lord, um, the, usually the, the, um, everything comes
into alignment, meaning like that, which is refuses to gets removed as opposed
to everything, just resisting and everything, just being bad eventually.
And it can take some time for a long time, but it depends, but, um, you know,
usually in the situations that I've been in, um, I don't fully know how to
describe for you or even to myself, which situations don't sometimes come
into alignment, I can just tell you that usually they do eventually.
And I don't know if it's my tenacity of like sticking things out and staying
long enough now by that, by that, you know, really, I'm just following the Lord.
Lord, how long do you want me to be here?
How long do you stay or whatever?
But so, so I, so, you know, not, um, so, uh, not taking credit for that.
Um, it's just that, you know, but you do have a high pain threshold, huh?
But you do have a high pain threshold.
I do, and it is true that I have stayed longer than, than I
should have at certain places.
But so maybe I would, I didn't mean to give myself credit for like,
oh, maybe it's just my tenacity.
But, um, I meant that, you know, the fact that I had stayed there
because God has told me to, and then of course there's been, and I've
just like, just decided I'm just going to dig in my stakes and I'm just
going to do it because it's right.
And I wasn't doing it every, I would does not doing things, all
things from place of rest back then, but a lot of striving and a lot of
just, I'm going to grit my teeth and bear it and gain a lot of pain
and a lot of hurt as a result.
But anyway, um, I have noticed that the majority of the times
that we, um, uh, things do shift.
They can take a long time, or at least it feels like a long time.
I think when I look back on them, they, all those things, usually
depending on how intense it is and like meeting, like how often that it happens.
Um, I have a tendency to it.
Things will just change within months.
Not years.
It's things that I very rarely have touch points with like certain
family events and interactions that might take longer, but, um, those,
in fact, those have taken longer just because the touch points are further
apart, but the touch points are closer together, those things transition,
um, you know, within weeks or months.
So, but yeah, but so just as an encouragement, they all usually come into alignment.
Yeah.
Yep.
I don't know why, maybe because everything is meant ultimately
because it's created by God.
Right.
I mean, they like all of its creator long for the truth.
Yeah.
And I don't know, maybe part of it is a son of God claiming something,
claiming it for God as opposed to giving up on it.
Well, you know, like Moses did with the Israelites where God
said, I wanted to wipe them out.
And Moses is just like, no, maybe.
So I don't know.
Anyway, that's really powerful.
It's just more stuff I was thinking about.
Oh, it's really good.
It's really good.
Very life-giving lots to stir on.
Well, I'm looking forward to, um, uh, gaining from your wisdom and me being
in your seat, being in the hot seat.
That's right.
I was going to say being in the hot seat, but then I was like, well, I don't want
to feel like she's a Nazi right now, but yeah.
Um, I'm very much looking forward to it on Friday because I'm like, okay, I need
some of Lindsay's like just her wisdom and comfort and counsel and assurance
and stuff on like multiple fronts.
So on some stuff related to, um, just what it is that I'm looking to do.
And so anyway, yeah, I'm excited.
I'm really excited.
This is the dream for me.
I told you the story.
I was like, I told you the story.
Someone said, what would you want to be doing by the end of this year?
And I'm like, I want to help people like my friend, Ashley.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the thing.
I mean, you, like what you carry is so weighty and like anything I can do to
help the depth of who you are.
you are go wider to more people.
Like I'm in that's, that's fun for me.
I appreciate it.
It means a lot to me and it's dream come true for me to get to see what I work
with YouTube and for me to have, for me to have help for me to have someone who
can, who can, um, bear my weight, so to speak of like my questions and my concerns
and my wonderings and my whatever, because as I'm sure that, you know, from
your, from, you know, your life, um, I'm used to having to have all the answers.
Yeah.
And this is not something that I tell many people, but, um, me asking for help
and me, me reaching out and being mentored and stuff like that is, um,
as weird as it sounds, it's, uh, has been a big, uh, challenge for me.
And it has been for my siblings as well.
And that's because in the family that I grew up in, you're always, you can't be
both, you can only be one, you have to either be, you have, and you have to be
the one who has all the answers, because if you don't have all of them, then
you don't have any of them.
And, um, and, and therefore you're in your, and if you ask for someone else's
advice or wisdom and glean from it and didn't know, you didn't know how to do
it or whatever, um, then you're weak.
Yep.
And it is so entrenched in my family.
It's not even funny.
It's that's the fan sales.
Really?
Oh, 100%.
That's everything I've been walking through.
Oh, well, I didn't think that it was because I thought that yours was, um,
because you're, you're, you're a mother and father-in-law came to you saying,
oh, we'd love to be your friends.
And I thought, oh, okay.
So apparently they don't have that problem.
I mean, that's been part of the struggle is because it's not, it doesn't feel
two ways because they're always fine.
Oh, yes.
It's not reciprocal.
It's not like let's be friends and Hey, here's, here's what I'm struggling with.
I mean, to the point where now I've been unpacking with my sister-in-law too.
Cause my sister-in-law for the very first time is going to therapy, which
they don't believe in, which the, you know, the parents, you know, and is
gleaning and she's realizing that, you know, there had to be a combustion in
her own life where leaders who were watching over her, thankfully said, Hey,
you need help and it was hard for her to even admit, and this isn't something
I'm not sharing anything super confidential, but like just, you know,
she's, she's been, she's like, this is awesome because she's finally being set
free and realizing like, I don't have to have all the answers and that's okay.
And so, yeah, yeah.
That's part of it.
Okay.
I thought y'all's was very different.
And I thought, well, I don't know, maybe one of these, I think
it's, I think it's what they want.
I think in their hearts, it's what they want.
Like, they want to like be peer level with their kids, but they,
but it, it, it's kind of a facade, you know, like, yeah, I've gotten to the
point where I'm like, I don't even know if they see it, like, I don't think
they're in, I don't think they're trying to be dishonest, think it's like what
they want, but at the same time, they can't give up this, like superiority of
like, yeah, it is the point where you can't, they, they end, they enter
into places that are like trustworthy spaces and they feel like they have to
critique and like, oh, I would do it this way and yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and then like, it'll come up to me with, you know, mom is, is a lot.
Has like changed in so many ways over the years.
And, um, and, and so hers, my relationship in many ways, because I
finally stood up for, started standing up for myself and owning myself.
And, um, because I ran into a situation like you did with your sister in law
and your, and your mom, you know, about like Jordan and not going to her play
and all that, well, I had a situation like that with my sister and where my
sister and I wish we were fine.
My mom was not anyway.
And they called me out on it.
Basically.
They were saying my sister had, um, had it was having an in and out surgery one
morning and my sister hadn't even told me it was on our foot and my head.
She hadn't even told me, well, apparently, so I found out through my
that Audra was going to have that.
And then her in that Audra had a friend that was going to drive all the way down
for, it took, it was going to take her the lady, at least 30 minutes, she had a
kid and everything, and she was going to drive down like it to make sure to pick
Audra up and have her to the doctor by like six in the morning, it's so much.
mom called me from her work and she said, Hey, Ashley, I'm going to just tell me all this. I'm
like, Oh wow. You know, I just didn't tell me she was going to do all of that. You know,
she didn't tell me that she had, that's going to have to have surgery, et cetera.
And she's like, yeah, and then this is what a friend's going to do. And she says,
so I was thinking that, you know, I'm going to go down and I'm going to,
I have to go into work, but then I'll be able to be back to the house by like 10 or something.
And I was thinking that maybe you could call and offer to take Audra instead of her friend.
You know, and you can stay there. This is my life. We are the same person.
I was just like, I'm not hearing this right. I was 30. How old was I? I was 35 when that
happened. It was August of 19, sorry, 2019. It was not that long ago. I was going,
am I, am I 18 again? Yeah. Am I, I'm like 35 years old. Anyway, I'm going, I've been,
I've been a business consultant. I worked for very large worldwide corporations.
But two things I need to do with my sisters, making a plan for you, making a plan.
Shocked. Even though I know, even though I know what it is and what's going on and I've lived in
it my whole life, it was like my eye, an event finally happened again. Only this time my eyes
were opened and I'm like watching it while it's happening. I'm going, I can't believe that this,
this is happening as in like, this is how I've lived. Okay. No, no more. And so I said, mom,
you know, I think I said, I'm really excited. I think this is wonderful.
Audra's got friends that love her this much. She didn't even tell me her sister that she was
going to have surgery, let alone ask me to come help her. I think it's wonderful. And this will
be a really good bonding experience for them. I think it's great. So my mom got really tight and
you know, and stiff anyway. So she came home later and she did, she did a pattern that she
normally does. And I've told mom that she does this pattern. And so over the years, she's finally
stopped doing it, but she's done it ever since I reckon ever since I was young and I recognized it
in high school that it was a predictable pattern is if I made her upset and I didn't, if I didn't
like make peace with her, I, as the child would make peace, then she would be mad at me for three
days. Like she would talk to everybody else and then change when she would talk to me.
This is a very solid Christian woman loves the Lord. And it's very submissive to him. And I'm
telling you, we all have things. So she started doing that again, even though I'm 35 years old,
she started doing the whole like three day thing. And I bet this time I was like, no,
no, I'm, I'm right on this one. And I, I, I'm my own person before the Lord taught in yourself.
Oh, by the way, this was one month after I'd first heard that, um, that, uh, that story from Chris,
uh, first heard Chris Blackabee's, uh, teachings. So my life had changed in like four weeks.
I know that is when this happened. So it's like writing. So all of a sudden it's God's like,
okay, Ashley, so who are you? So they've got to step out on it now. I'm like, okay.
Oh yeah. So anyway, it caused a big, big stink. Then the only reason I'm telling you all this
is just in case you can relate and it gets you and gives you an encouragement.
The biggest blow up my family and my parents and I have ever had
was on, was prompted by that because I asked to talk to my parents. Oh, like, okay. So I said,
we need to, I was wondering, you know, could y'all give me some time? And there's something
I'd like to talk to y'all about. You don't do that with my parents. They call the meetings.
You don't, but anyway, so I did it and they're like, yeah, sure. We've got some things we'd
like to talk to you about too. I'm like, okay. Interestingly, that worked out. Yeah. So anyway,
we, uh, I told them what it is that they thought and they thought I was selfish and they literally
called me, excuse me. It was, they called me like all of the horrible, it was like the worst
cases. I'm not trying to like paint a bad light about my parents. I love my parents.
They're wonderful people. I'm telling you, this was my experience and this is how this is,
this is the type of situation I found myself in and it hurt really bad. So they literally,
before my eyes played out all of my worst nightmares that I had literally, I told myself
for years, almost like the vows, like I would do whatever it is I had to do for, for me to never
be in this situation with my parents. And I had multiple things. I never wanted them to tell me.
They labeled me as literally all the things I had, I had to do for them to not be in this situation.
pulled myself, I never wanted them to have to call me any of
those things. He called me all of them. I was like, well, here
we are. So anyway, so from that point, I was like, no, because
who did it? Who have I learned that I am? And I have to stand
in that identity. So when I talk about my relationships being on
the rocks during that time, when I made those final ultimatums
with the Lord, his final ultimate choices, those are the
relationships that I'm talking about. But it also brought some
stuff open between my brother, sister and I. Because before
then, we never talked about the dysfunction in our family.
That's exactly what's happening with I mean, select siblings,
like his sister in law. Yeah. I mean, his sister and my sister
in law, his sister. Yeah, we just never. Yeah, we just
didn't know. We could, there was this whole thing of like, then
it would be talking badly about them. And you never want to do
that. Yes, we didn't even talk to each other about it. Well,
because it's very unsafe, because you are dismantling.
Yes. So much of what you put your own stock and identity in.
I mean, this is my birthday, my birthday, Liesl, who's Bruce's
sister, like reached out and said, Hey, like, I'm going to be
in town. Let's drink. Let's grab, you know, dinner and
drinks with Jordan. So she like organized it. This was in June.
This was just this June. We sat there and it was like, kind of
awkward at first. It's been a while since we've all been
together. And then like something opened up. I mean, to
the point where Liesl's like, because she had at this point
have been in therapy and stuff. And she said, like, I think
there's narcissistic tendencies in our family. And it was just
like, the thing that I had in my heart that I was so like, I had
kind of recognized things. And I'm like, that's pretty extreme,
Lindsay, like, I don't think you could go there. Yeah. And then
she verbalized it. And I was like, Oh, wow, like, we're going
there. But it just I mean, I'm not saying it like healed
anything, but it opened up this possibility of like, honesty
that was never there before of like, we have like, we, there
has to be things revealed in order for there to be things
that are healed. Yeah. And that had just never been a it had
been things I kind of had noticed. And you got it's not
my, they're not my family. But I like, I mean, I call them mom
and dad, like, we're very close. Oh, yeah. So I love them like a
moment. Like, I'm not. You know, and that's the tension. Like you
you said, it's like, we have to acknowledge that there's
dysfunction, or ultimately acknowledging, like, I wish it
could be different. And I have hope that it can be different
reading it. Yeah. Yeah. But that's really interesting.
Yeah. How did we find each other? We're literally like, I
know, the same person.
That's a wild. That's wild.
No, yeah. But I forgot that that just as a side note, just to
continue my whole point of telling you that story. And I
don't know. Now what I'm looking at, I'm like, what it what
connection that I see. But the thing that I was going to say
was that one of the things that I've noticed about like, they
always have to, what I discovered, they always have to
be right, or they always have to know everything. That's what I'm
trying to ask for help. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is is when I'll
tell them certain things about like, Oh, my word, you know, I'm
just like, you know, there's there's this going on in the
church, or there's this going on in, in in like, I don't
remember, like, I mean, I remember, but I don't know how
to describe it. It's like, oh, this is what's going on in
Christianity these days, or these are some of the problems
that that are rising up in these people that that we know. And
these are some situations that we're dealing with. And I was
like, you know, it's just it's just wild, etc. And then I'm
just shocked. It's like my mom will switch and she was like,
Ashley, she's like, Oh, I know. She said, you kids don't know
she'll do that. You kids don't know that. But you know, you
know, your dad and I have have known that since the 80s. You
know, yeah, and we've been dealing with that since the
ages. Oh, yeah, actually, all this stuff that y'all are
seeing your dad and I've, you know, we've seen it in the
church for decades. We've whatever. Yeah, I'm sure y'all
have. Yeah. So in other words, you can't know anything, and be
able to offer anything.
You can't offer anything. When they when they change their
minds on something which has happened. The church is a great
example. These people have led implanted churches for the last
30 years. And then everything blows up. And then all sudden
they have this revelation of like, the organizational church
is like, not even necessary. Oh, yeah. You know, and I'm like,
which is like, you can believe what you want. And I can
definitely meet you in some of those places of like, yeah,
there's definitely we need some things to change because I don't
you
We don't love this building, but like, there's no point in time where there's
like, uh, like a transition, like, man, I know for the last 30 years, we've
spent our lives building something that we're realizing now, like, maybe it
wasn't kingdom, like, okay, let's have that conversation, but it's as
if it's always been this way.
And I'm like, I'm like, meanwhile, you have raised your children.
And, and I will include myself in the last 13 years of that to love and give
our lives and lay down our lives and sacrifice for the building of the local
church.
Yeah.
So then you're like, so as someone like me, who, who is like desperately
looking for a sense of safety and, you know, at the time before coming into
Chris's teaching, looking for a tangible Christ, I'm like, you know, like, I'm
like, what is even real anymore?
And you want me to follow you into that unknown, knowing that you could
change your mind again without any acknowledgement that there was a change.
Yeah.
I, I hear you through it.
And so I've just kind of learned to just, I don't know of how to like form of
how to approach conversations.
And I so badly wish, you know, you, you wish with how much your parents have
contributed to you, that you could be, that your contribution could be valued
is like, you've got something to give.
But even these days, you know, as old as we are, we don't feel like we have
something to give.
Now there's a few things that have changed in the back.
Like what, sometimes when my dad will want to know how to do something on an
Excel or, um, or he'll know, want to do, do some kind of a project.
And I, his, in my mind are very similar in how we work.
And so he'll bounce ideas off from off of me and that, and he'll like, he'll
expose the fact that he's run into a roadblock and he doesn't know what to do.
Yeah.
And so he'll, I'm, I was shocked when that started happening.
So he started doing that and that allowed us to connect.
And I've so appreciated that because I noticed I'm like, oh my word, this is a
really big deal.
I'm not really sure what to do with this anyway.
So our, our relationship has really blossomed in that area.
But then, but, but when it comes to the spiritual stuff, I was going to say,
well, how do they, how do they interact with your revelation of rest?
Uh, they don't, they don't, they don't, they, they've not heard me teach on it.
I mean, are they aware that you're doing what you're doing?
Yeah.
They're aware they, they know how the rest intensive, et cetera.
I don't know if they've ever watched one of my teachings.
I don't know.
It's possible that they watched the 40 minute summary, maybe.
Yeah.
But yeah, I've given him access to my teachings.
They, and they said, oh yeah, we want, we want access to him, whatever, but they
don't want to, don't talk to me about it.
In fact, it took them a long time to actually ask me questions about like how
it was going and whatever, um, but they don't know, they don't fully know what it
is, I believe, and whenever I do mention something that I believe they, they
either don't, they, they, how, how to put that they either avoid talking about it.
Kind of like, oh, well, that's nice.
Whatever, or they'll do that.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
That's absolutely true.
And, and that, yeah, that's just the way that it is.
And then they add to the conversation because they know, yeah, they know it's
so it's kind of like, no, you, you really, really don't.
And I know that because I know how you raised me.
Why didn't you tell me?
Well, I know.
So this is just like my heart of a child wanting so badly to have, to be seen like
having a valuable contribution, other than simply what it is that other than
mirroring how great their teaching was and then being raised.
Um, and so that that's hard, but I will tell you this, and this is
something I just discovered.
Um, my brother is talking about like visiting with siblings, my brother and
sister-in-law, we were visiting, um, the two of us were visiting with Ed and I,
and, um, and, and then, um, uh, and Dan, I don't remember if it was Danielle or
Brendan, maybe it was Brendan who brought it up, Brendan's my brother.
And he's four years younger than I am.
And he said, well, Ashley, you know, you do have noticed, haven't you?
That mom and dad treat me different than they treat you and Andra.
Mike.
I said, well, well, what do you mean?
And then I said, and I think I said, I don't remember if I said something like, oh, yeah,
no, no, I don't remember.
I think I said, well, I don't know.
I don't understand what you mean.
And then as he explained it, I was like, oh, that I was like, oh, yeah, I've always thought
that was really sweet that they really, you know, that you talk to them about stuff and
that they, that they really listen to you when you're in your, not your counsel, but
your, like he's advising them, but your wisdom, that's what it was.
So your wisdom and your revelation in the Lord, I said, I've always thought that was
amazing that mom and dad would listen to that.
And I would always really like, not, not appreciated, but I'll just use that word appreciated the
fact that they would, that they would do that.
And I just said, Brendan, I always thought that that was just, but thought so highly
of you that, that their response was evidence of your maturity in the Lord, that they would
recognize it and respond to it.
And I was just, and I, and so I've just really, really respected and admired how much, how
mature you are in the Lord and all of that.
Both he and Danielle said, Ashley, you do know that that's because he's a man, right?
And Brendan's like, yeah, actually it's like, I don't know, guys, I don't, I've never gotten
that impression.
It was cause he was the guy in the room.
So Danielle's looking at me like, oh honey, are you sure?
I don't think so.
Both of them, including my brother said, no, Ashley, it is.
It's why I was like, are you serious?
And they said, and I was like, yeah, but that's not how we were raised.
We were raised to believe any different.
And like, I know, but they probably don't know that that's what they're doing.
And that's just what they, it's just how they, it's just how they grew up.
They grew up, you know, intrinsically and subconsciously respecting what a man has to
say and a contribution and the leadership, so to speak, recognizing leadership, that
they could feel kind of, that they could feel safe following.
That's a good way to put it.
As opposed to even like spiritually following or like intellectually following other than
a woman.
I was like, are you guys sure?
They're like, yeah.
How did I miss this?
Maybe because they always talk very different.
And, and, you know, I've learned a case in point, this is a total side note, and I need
to let you go.
We've been chatting.
I'm fine.
It's always so fun connecting.
I know.
We just, but with the, the thing is that my, my mom, you know, is always saying things
like, she's like, well, actually it doesn't matter what people think.
You don't need to be worried about what other people think.
I'm like, mom, you were the poster child.
I didn't say that, but I'm like, because that's what they've always taught us.
It doesn't matter what other people think they've said it.
But everything else they've taught us is what matters is what people think.
Case in point.
I was, I was at church one day and this was like 12 years ago or something like that.
And I went and, and I lived alone, you know, and, you know, lived on my own and I don't
know how old I was at the time.
It was like mid twenties or something.
Anyway.
So I went to, after church, I went to my parents' house for, for Sunday lunch.
And I was telling mom, so I was slowly, even though it was like, I don't know, a decade
before I would learn about rest or anything, I was slowly starting to kind of open up because
I was in a church that offered me a safe place for relationship.
And so that was really starting to open up, you know, how it is, you know, we don't
always have the one big threshold, you know, that God gives us opportunities to grow and
open up slowly over time.
So anyway, I was, I was going through one of those phases where I was starting to feel
a little more free.
So I had taken, I told mom, I said, oh mom, great Sunday today.
And it was so much fun.
I was just, I was sitting there by myself and I just kind of, I, you know, I just, I
took my shoes off and I like tucked one of my feet up under me and, you know, and I'm
just sitting there.
I said, I just had a great time.
I just felt so relaxed in church today or whatever.
And she said, actually, did someone see you going, it doesn't matter, mom.
That's not the point of the story.
The story is not, did someone see me with my shoe off, but tucked up under me?
You know, the point is your daughter was happy.
I was feeling that free, but she's like, actually, did someone see you?
I'm like, this is why I didn't tell her this, but I'm thinking, this is why I don't
attention when you try to encourage me to not worry about what other people think.
Because that's where you go is what do people think? Anyway, I just like, so my poor mom,
but you know how it is with everybody. I look at their parents and I watch how much they have
grown, how 100% of parents have grown from theirs. And I'm just like, you know what? That's what the
Lord gave to them and they were faithful. Yep. That's exactly what the Lord gave me another
floor to, you know, to raise a new ceiling, you know, gave me a floor to stand on their shoulders,
you know, raise the ceiling. They, they, not everything is given to everyone. It's like
every generation has their thing. Do you know who Sean Bowles is? Yeah. Yeah. So I remember
him saying something that set me free because he was talking about his parents and like growing up
in the culture of like, everything was super strict and we're boycotting this and we're
boycotting that and you know, all that stuff. But he said, it was just kind of a passing story,
but he said, look, my, my parents were first generation Christians and I know that they were
doing the best they could with what they had. Like it wasn't out of a, you know, they weren't
trying to abuse me. They weren't, it was just like, they were trying not to repeat. And that's
like, that was my parents' story too. Like my dad grew up, like where he was raised by, I mean,
his mom was great, but she was ended up being a single mom because his dad was like violently
abusive and they eventually were left that situation. Yeah. It had no context of God
whatsoever. Comes to Jesus through a Billy Graham book at the age of 22. I'm like a year old and
like life has radically transformed. So like, and you know, Bruce's dad, the same way, like they,
there's no religion traced back and like 14 years old, he was driving a motorcycle up and down
the steps of a church and this British pastor comes out and befriends him, eventually leading
him to Christ and becoming a spiritual dad. But like, you know, there's so much to honor is what
I'm saying. Yeah. Despite all of the, and it's a good reminder to have, but like, you know, we
were, we're carrying the torch. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and, and, you know, it was,
tonight was a great reminder because, you know, as we choose ourselves, it's like, we get to
actually be aware of like, what it is the Lord has this carrying and it doesn't have to be
attached to the unhealth and dysfunction of, we don't have to like accept it. We don't have to
carry it. Yeah. It's it's, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you. Sorry for each other. I am sorry. But
it's amazing. Like what you are carrying now, like out of that. And again, to be overcomers,
we have to overcome some things. So for you to have even have that context gives you,
makes you so much more powerful in this revelation that you carry because you had to overcome
that religious system. And I, I had to, and I hate to keep sounding like a broken record and
going back to this, but I had to make a choice to live and learn to live and step into my identity
as a son of God, or do I choose, you know, a lifestyle? Do I choose to, you know, trying to
keep the peace and make sure everything's okay and whatever. And I'm like, no, I'd rather this
and make mistakes and just have things just mess up with my relationships with other people,
while I'm just doing my best to learn and figure this thing out because everything I'm doing is
me trying to do this, you know, it's me trying to live from here. And so sometimes I might get it
right. And sometimes I might've misunderstood and then I, and then I don't get it right,
you know but I just had to make a choice. And so anyway, I try to tell for a long time,
I didn't tell stories about myself because I didn't want it to be about me. I didn't want
people to feel like they were come to me with their problems. And then I would just talk about
all my stories. But people kept telling me that they loved my stories. And finally I realized,
oh, okay. So they're actually making them, it makes them feel, it makes them not feel crazy
or alone. And it also helps gives validity to me speaking into their situation when I say,
paint a picture of like, this is what I lived through. This is the amount of pain that it felt
like, you know, and these are the, these are the obstacles. These were the attacks. These were the
contradictions. These were the whatever's. And so when I made a choice, I made it in this type
of a situation that was affecting me in this type of a way. And then I'm telling you that it worked,
you know, so that people understand, you know, I'm not just, I'm not like, oh, I'm so sorry that
you're going through that. Let me counsel you on a.
situation that I've never been in. And so you, you know, like,
oh, yeah, in theory, you know what the Bible says? And people
are just like, that all sounds great. But you know, I'm in a
lot of pain. And that doesn't feel like that's gonna work. And
I feel like you care about me, but I, I'm not confident in, you
know, in the, I don't know, the validity or of what it is that
you're speaking the strength and the power of what you're
talking about. It sure would be nice. But it just sounds like
the story of David and Goliath, it's hard to connect with. And I
think you're giving me theory, instead of something I can
actually stand on. But then when I show them, I was like, no, no,
I've actually lived this. And this is the situations I lived
it in. And I didn't have someone to tell me these things. I made
the hard choice, hoping I was right. Yeah, I didn't know. I
was making I was making professional career risks on the
fact that I thought God might have told me something. Yeah. I
mean, it wasn't even on like, Oh, I know God told me and then
I was willing to take the risk. No, I thought that maybe he
said that. And I would take the risk. And I think he honored
that simply from the fact that that the reason that I was
choosing it because it was because I thought I was choosing
him. Right? That's where she thinks I am. And that's why
she's choosing it. She's not choosing it to self protect. In
fact, she sacrificed herself protection to choose this
trusting that I was going to be there. Yeah, I'll show up
because I will show up according to how she she declares to me
that I'm allowed to interact with her to show up. So we honor
that. And so I appreciated that. So anyway, it's amazing. Yeah.
I hope that you'll be encouraged by the things that we talked
about today, because I know that some of them were were heavy.
And you were probably thinking of, man, that sounds really
hard to do in this situation. So I was hoping, I was like, I hope
that it it sounds like freedom as opposed to Okay, now I have
to go do something hard. No, there's a potential tornado, you
know, or something.
No, it's definitely clarifying. Absolutely. I feel very hopeful.
Like I really do. I'm like, I at no point did this feel heavy at
all. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing I
mean, I know it's not for another couple of weeks, but I'm
looking forward to hearing how it goes. Yeah, yeah. I mean,
I mean, well, you go to your in-laws. I'll go to mine. I
know.
It's the wedding.
There were some issues. In fact, Ed and I were talking about it
this morning about about that. And I was honest with him for
the first time about how much those things.
I'm so proud of you. I know. I mean, how was it? How was it
received?
Oh, good, because that is one thing about Ed that he's very
strong in is to be able to see. I don't even know how to explain
it. But to be able to. I don't know. I don't know. Sorry. I
don't know how to explain it. But he's very good at just
listening to, you know, those types of things as being true.
And just like kind of like just disassociating from them and
just kind of like dealing with them was like, well, yeah, you
know, that's you're right. That's how it's what was going
on, etc. And, and, and I and one of the things that was very
honest with him about was the fact that I heard that I was
more hurt than I realized by his mother's actions. Because he was
talking about how he was frustrated with his mom at the
wedding, you know, because of stuff at the wedding, and this
was going to be our first time to see her at Thanksgiving. And
and he was anyway, but I and then I was honest with him about
the fact which you know, is hard when you're the in law. And
you're like, I don't want to say this. Yeah, about my husband's
family to my husband, you know, so you're just like, you don't
want to cause extra pain. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I was like,
Oh, Lord, but I was like, I but I remembered our conversation. I
thought if Lindsay can be brave, I can be brave. I thought
about you in this situation. I thought, okay, Lindsay did it, I
can do it. So I told I told him, I said, Well, to be on it, I
said, I haven't, I've come to realize that I've been more
hurt than I then, then I realized, you know, that I've
come to acknowledge it. And I said, to the point where I
haven't gotten over it, I hurt actually hurt really,
really bad. I said, because I said I was publicly rebuked by my future mother-in-law in front
of my parents, the entire wedding party, you know, you, your dad, and the pastor, I said,
and I'm the bride, everyone's looking to me to give them the directions. Cause I remember
I was the wedding coordinator. So I'm like telling everybody what to do. I wish I could
you, but everything has stopped. So everything is quiet. Yeah. She lays into me and I'm like,
oh my word. And I told him today, I said, I really struggled with the fact. And he said,
oh yeah. He said my dad and the, and the pastor had to physically restrain me from coming to help
you because they told me to not engage with it. They said, especially the spiritual, the pastor,
he said he, um, it was the spiritual thing that was going on. He said, do not engage with that.
It's your wedding. Don't don't mess with it. And so it's like, okay. And then his dad was
telling him the same thing, but his dad from experience with this mom, of course knew that,
Hey, you don't, it'll you going over there to defend Ashley and to stand up for her. He said,
it's going to make the problem worse. And so he's like, it'll, it'll go away. If you don't,
if you don't engage with it. And so it's like, Ashley, they literally had to physically restrain
me. And I said, well, I didn't tell him that. Well, I didn't know that, but he could figure
out that that's what I was saying. I said, I said, you know, I understand why they told them
that I said, why they told you that. Um, and I said, and I would agree. I said, but what I do
not understand is that emotionally I wanted protecting, and I don't understand why they
would give you that advice when I'm being publicly humiliated without protection and
no one stood up for me. I said, no, my parents didn't because they were trying to honor the
fact that that's my mother-in-law. And I said, I appreciated that because that wasn't their place.
And my mom, she, she like physically started to move forward and she, she stopped herself.
And I said, I was so glad that she did because this was not her place, but I had wanted him
to protect me because that his mom and my future husband. And so I told him, I said,
and that was apparently his, his gut reaction. And the guys both told him to not do it. And I
said, I don't understand why they would tell you to not do it because I felt unprotected.
Yeah. So anyway, so we talked through that. So that was good for both of us, you know,
to talk through. And I was so pleased that the Lord helped us through that conversation
that we could both be honest, but then know that I could hear from Ed, you know, that he
loved me and that he was there to, he was going to try to do something. And he actually did it for
some other thing that came up where I was, I was approached again with an issue with his mom.
And then I was rebuked for it. And someone came and found me in the kitchen and told me what for
and all of that. And, um, so he found out about that and then he went to both that person and his
mom and explained to them how that wasn't going to happen again. So, you know, he would protect
me, but anyways, but it was important that I actually say that and I confess it. So anyway,
so you and your, and your story about what it is that you've been going through gave me courage.
So I greatly appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad, and I want you to know, like it is,
you know, especially as you're going into like their territory for this holiday, like
verbalize to Ed that you need and want his covering. I hadn't thought about that. Because
I think, you know, I don't know Ed very well, but I know he's a man of honor and integrity. I think
he would really respond, respect that and be super attracted by that because what man wouldn't,
right? Cause it's, it's there, it's in them to be a protector and obviously their wife's covering.
So, um, when, when, but I, but when you're a really strong woman, sometimes it might not even
be communicated, but maybe felt like, oh, she doesn't need that or want that from me because
she can handle it. So I think it's very important from like a wife's point of view to just like
verbalize that to him. Like I want, and I need your covering. I need you to be on my side.
Yeah. I need you to take, I need you to have my back. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that you told me that
because yeah, I, I hadn't thought about it and it would be good to talk about that, you know,
before we're actually in a situation, you know? And so, yeah. And then tuck into that as the woman,
like tuck into his covering and protection. Even if you feel like, oh, I can't handle this,
or I can, like I'm, I've had to learn that too. And I'm, am learning that actively with.
Bruce, like, I can't, I need to, I need to give into it, like,
be vulnerable to it and like, and, and submit to that
leadership. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As he steps out and
does that for me and protects me, even if it's not how I
would have done it. Yeah. And we can always talk about that
later. Like, hey, like, but in the moment, just tuck into that.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I appreciate you telling me that
because I need to do that. And that would be very healthy. And
because otherwise, I kept finding myself in situations
where I didn't feel protected, but I didn't couldn't figure
out if he was just trying to honor and respect me in the way
that he knew how, or if he just felt like in his family, they
didn't do that kind of thing. You don't because it's
interfering, you know, between two other people or whatever.
And so anyway, I would just want him to know, you know, that,
hey, you know, I've, I've always looked forward to somebody who
would stand up for me where I didn't have to, like, be all by
myself kids growing up, I was, I just always felt, you know,
isolated. And, and actually, in literally every single
situation that I've ever been in, that I can remember, I have
not, oh, no, there's been one, my best friend's husband that I
worked for, he would come in and provide me a recovery and a
protection that I'd never was quite used to. I'm an
experienced. So that was that I really, that gave me kind of a
flavor for what, you know, for something that I could expect
and could enjoy. And so, and so anyway, and that would, that
would be a very helpful conversation for me to have with
them for it. So um, thank you. Thank you very much for
mentioning that. I'll have to do that. Yeah. Anyway, it's
gonna be great. It's gonna be really well, it'll really be
great. And yeah, it'll, it'll be really good. We were already
talking today about like, how we need to handle the week and you
know, that we're there and I was get I was very bright. I was
very excited. I also told them some things that I thought that
we got to create some boundaries with this family and some
expectations based off of past how they've acted in the past
that for me was a big deal. Because again, I haven't wanted
to say anything, you know, as if anything was wrong with this
family or whatever. But um, anyway, I was just basically
saying, you know, I don't believe that they're honoring
you and your time when you're down there. And I think that it
would be very healthy, not just for us, but for the whole
family, for us to be putting down certain for us to, you
know, own ourselves and to own our time, to invite them to be
part of things as opposed to us just being available for them
when they don't make themselves available. And we're the guests
down here, you know, whatever I said, you know, I think that
would be really important. And so he I think he started
thinking about all of that. So I was very grateful that the Lord
has given us that time. So anyway, yeah, we can just text
each other back and forth. That's right. Hang in there.
It's gonna be great.
Anyway, so all right. Well, I hope you have a really good
night, Lindsay, you too get some rest. And we'll obviously see
each other tomorrow night. But I'm looking forward to our
conversation on Friday. Yes, me too. I've got like, I didn't
know, at least three big things that I want to ask. I want to
ask you about. And one of them, you know, I mentioned in the
chat, and then and then one of them, I was just remembering
just now. And then the other one, I don't remember what it
is. But I'll remember it by Friday.
It'd be great. It's gonna be a great conversation. Yeah, I'm
looking forward to it. All right. Have a good night. You
too. Bye.