WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.600 Welcome to Empower You. I'm Amy Stevens. You may have heard Pastor Steve's podcast where we had a 2 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:13.920 conversation about public policy engagement or civic engagement. You know, COVID changed a lot 3 00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:19.680 of things in our community and this is where the road really exploded in membership and where people 4 00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:26.080 began to get engaged. And so Pastor Steve came to me and said, hey, would you consider volunteering 5 00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:32.880 to help lead this effort? We have all kinds of views in our church, diverse views. And really, 6 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:36.960 how do we make sense of that? How do we move forward? People are exhausted. A lot of people 7 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:42.960 angry. Some just trying to raise their kids. How do we stay engaged? And I'm convinced it's through 8 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:47.360 big, important little things, things that you and I can do every day. And that's what you're going 9 00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:52.240 to hear on these podcasts. You're going to hear from people in the community, school board members. 10 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.960 You're going to hear from people that work in the life pro-life space. You're going to hear 11 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:02.080 from legislators, people that are going to talk to us about what their lives are really like, 12 00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:06.720 what their jobs are really like, and actually how we can make a difference and or support them. 13 00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:11.040 And so that is the hope for Pastor Steve. That's the hope that I have, 14 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.280 and we look forward to engaging with you. 15 00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:27.600 My guest today is Eli Bremer. Eli is a actually native Coloradan. I've known him for many years 16 00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:33.040 and so happy you're here. He is a former Olympian. He's a U.S. Air Force Academy grad. 17 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:40.400 He ran for U.S. Senate, where he was endorsed by a majority of county commissioners. His wife, 18 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:45.920 Cammie, is a county commissioner. In fact, she's head. She's chairman of the board right now. 19 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:52.240 But he has an amazing story also about his son, Struthers, who was born weighing one and a half 20 00:01:52.240 --> 00:01:53.040 pounds. One and a half pounds, yep. 21 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:59.840 My gosh, okay. But you also come from a long line in terms of family engagement, 22 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:05.360 policy engagement. Your dad, Duncan, was a former county commissioner. Your uncle, 23 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:11.680 Paul Bremer, was also appointed by former President Bush as the presidential envoy to Iraq 24 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:22.160 in 2003. You've played a really big role in this whole issue of women's sports, transgender men 25 00:02:22.160 --> 00:02:28.240 engaging in women's sports, the exposing in terms of athletes, and the governance of the U.S. 26 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:34.480 Olympic Committee. You also, however, and one thing I was very happy about, and you endeavored, 27 00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:40.000 you waded in the water. You were our former El Paso County party chairman. 28 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.720 And I'll never get those two years of my life back, Amy. 29 00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:48.800 You never will. That's exactly right. You were our former party chairman in El Paso County. And 30 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:56.640 that in and of itself is a bravo. That's a tough job. It is a tough job. And you and I have 31 00:02:56.640 --> 00:03:03.360 talked a lot about this. We've been talking about the blue state in the time you and I've known each 32 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:10.080 other, even in the time I served in office, right? The blueing of Colorado. And what are 33 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:16.960 we going to do about it? And we kind of lamented sometimes what's going on. Where I want to go, 34 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.080 and I'll give you a scenario. You know this well. As you were running for U.S. Senate, 35 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:29.200 I think our congressman, Doug Lamborn, for the fifth CD was running. We were also going through 36 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:33.280 redrawing of the boundary lines here in Colorado, everywhere. 37 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:33.840 Redistricting. 38 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:40.880 Redistricting. Here at our church, and Pastor Steve and I have talked a lot about this, we had 39 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:48.240 a lot of backing and forth. We had a lot of people all over the map here at our church. Not that they, 40 00:03:48.880 --> 00:03:54.800 I would probably say a majority in this body are registered Republican and or independent, 41 00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:03.680 but probably Republican. And a lot of over, right? Why would you vote for a compromiser? Why? 42 00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:12.560 The buzzwords, the establishment, right? And we would just go, I remember I got voted off the 43 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:21.040 island on one chat group I joined. And then it was pretty clear where they were going, right? 44 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:21.120 Yeah. 45 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:28.320 And pretty clear where I was. And they were just, the group shut down because they were 46 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:31.840 asked too many questions. It was kind of ridiculous. But this is what we have going 47 00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:37.920 on in every church. And this is what we have going on in our party. And about a few weeks ago, 48 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:44.560 I got a resolution. I'm a precinct committee person. I got a resolution by the Republican 49 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:50.160 party in regards to the fundamental principles of our party, which wonderful, we all want, 50 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:55.280 everybody wants principles. And it really revolved around the constitution, right? 51 00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:59.200 The bill of rights, the 2016 Republican party platform. 52 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.400 No, I would go, well, OK. 53 00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:04.120 I mean, that's fine. 54 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:05.160 I'm there with you. 55 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.280 I will support that. 56 00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:12.840 I was a political appointee at HHS in administration. 57 00:05:12.840 --> 00:05:15.960 And then it just says, be it resolved that the El Paso 58 00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:18.640 County Republican Party, that any elected Republican 59 00:05:18.640 --> 00:05:23.240 official, and any candidate that aspires to elected office 60 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:27.880 be firmly, openly, unequivocally, unashamedly 61 00:05:27.880 --> 00:05:30.880 demonstrative in support of our fundamental principles. 62 00:05:30.880 --> 00:05:31.520 Yeah. 63 00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:33.920 So Amy, the question is actually then 64 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.280 who gets to adjudicate that. 65 00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:41.000 And when I was elected chair, I was the youngest chairman 66 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.120 in the state of Colorado. 67 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.920 I was younger at the time and naive. 68 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.760 And I thought, oh, here I am. 69 00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:50.960 People really asked me to serve. 70 00:05:50.960 --> 00:05:52.720 I was an Olympian, Air Force grad. 71 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.040 I was separated from active duty. 72 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.460 And boy, did I get a wake-up call real fast 73 00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:00.420 when I realized that was the fundamental question of who 74 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:02.740 gets to do the adjudication. 75 00:06:02.740 --> 00:06:06.460 And when I was chairman, I coined the term the party 76 00:06:06.460 --> 00:06:08.620 Pharisees, because I realized there 77 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:11.700 was an entire class of people who acted 78 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:13.300 like the Pharisees of the Bible. 79 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:17.180 And they said, we get to determine the law, 80 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:19.140 the Pharisees and the Sadducees. 81 00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:20.860 And they went so far off the rails 82 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.300 that they convicted Jesus and executed him. 83 00:06:23.300 --> 00:06:25.740 They literally convicted the Messiah. 84 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:31.340 And I hate to say it, but this is a problem we see in politics 85 00:06:31.340 --> 00:06:37.420 is that you have self-declared adjudicators of the law. 86 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:39.000 And I've seen that. 87 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:40.540 Unfortunately, I've seen it for years. 88 00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:43.060 And I think this is partly why we are slipping away. 89 00:06:43.060 --> 00:06:45.780 In the same way that the Pharisees of the Bible 90 00:06:45.780 --> 00:06:48.940 were driving the Jewish people further and further away 91 00:06:48.940 --> 00:06:52.340 from God, I think the Pharisees in politics 92 00:06:52.340 --> 00:06:55.140 drive us further and further away from electoral victories. 93 00:06:55.140 --> 00:06:59.020 I think today, you and I have had this conversation 94 00:06:59.020 --> 00:06:59.700 with our party. 95 00:06:59.700 --> 00:07:03.060 But actually, I'm seeing it also in the Democratic Party now. 96 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:07.020 In other words, my former lobbying partner 97 00:07:07.020 --> 00:07:10.020 was kicked out of the Hispanic caucus. 98 00:07:10.020 --> 00:07:11.820 He wasn't La Raza enough for them. 99 00:07:11.820 --> 00:07:16.540 And I mean, he is as up and coming a leader as anybody. 100 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:17.740 And I said, wait, what? 101 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:18.900 You've got to be kidding. 102 00:07:18.900 --> 00:07:21.100 Amy, I think particularly as Christians, 103 00:07:21.100 --> 00:07:23.740 and in full disclosure, Steve Holt 104 00:07:23.740 --> 00:07:26.420 gave the opening invocation at my launch event. 105 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:27.100 Yes. 106 00:07:27.100 --> 00:07:29.100 So I've known Steve for a long time 107 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.260 and consider him a good friend. 108 00:07:31.260 --> 00:07:34.100 But I think as Christians engage in politics, 109 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:36.900 first and foremost, let's remember your faith 110 00:07:36.900 --> 00:07:38.900 surpasses everything else. 111 00:07:38.900 --> 00:07:42.300 And if you engage in politics, it 112 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:44.540 needs to subordinate to your faith. 113 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:48.100 And that truth is truth, and righteousness is righteousness. 114 00:07:48.100 --> 00:07:51.140 And I love the hearkening back to when Jesus said, 115 00:07:51.140 --> 00:07:53.460 give to Caesar what is Caesar, and to God what is God's. 116 00:07:53.460 --> 00:07:56.740 And oftentimes, I see churches that get political, 117 00:07:56.740 --> 00:07:58.140 they lose their true north. 118 00:07:58.140 --> 00:07:59.900 And we can disagree on what a candidate is 119 00:07:59.900 --> 00:08:00.740 or something like that. 120 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:02.100 But within the body of Christ, we 121 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:04.740 need to be very careful to keep that. 122 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:08.860 With that said then, it's also important to be wise. 123 00:08:08.860 --> 00:08:11.060 And there's a lot of organizations 124 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:13.220 that I see surrounding various churches that 125 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:14.340 get politically involved. 126 00:08:14.340 --> 00:08:15.860 I'll use an example. 127 00:08:15.860 --> 00:08:17.540 There's a pro-life group. 128 00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:19.020 I'm going to put this in air quotes. 129 00:08:19.020 --> 00:08:21.980 It's a pro-life group that attacked my wife 130 00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:24.020 because she was not pro-life enough. 131 00:08:24.020 --> 00:08:28.380 Now, my wife literally put her life on the line 132 00:08:28.380 --> 00:08:30.300 to bring our son into this world. 133 00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:33.900 We were counseled minutes before she went into an emergency 134 00:08:33.900 --> 00:08:37.380 c-section that the safest thing for her to do 135 00:08:37.380 --> 00:08:39.740 would be to terminate our son's life, 136 00:08:39.740 --> 00:08:42.460 and that that would guarantee her life be saved. 137 00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:45.900 She said, no, that's not an option. 138 00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:47.860 So I've emceed. 139 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:49.460 Right, but there's a group of people 140 00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:53.180 who say she considers herself, or she's not enough. 141 00:08:53.180 --> 00:08:57.300 So we've financially supported pro-life causes. 142 00:08:57.300 --> 00:08:59.980 I spent, I think, six years I was the emcee at the Walk 143 00:08:59.980 --> 00:09:01.020 for Life. 144 00:09:01.020 --> 00:09:04.220 And there was this group in town that declared themselves 145 00:09:04.220 --> 00:09:06.180 a pro-life adjudicator. 146 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:10.300 And they sent out a survey to her 147 00:09:10.300 --> 00:09:12.540 when she was running for county commission saying, 148 00:09:13.300 --> 00:09:16.500 will you demand that all abortions in El Paso County 149 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:17.060 are canceled? 150 00:09:17.060 --> 00:09:18.620 Now, you've been involved with the government. 151 00:09:18.620 --> 00:09:23.100 Can a county commissioner cease abortions in the county? 152 00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:24.860 Do they have the legal ability to do this? 153 00:09:24.860 --> 00:09:25.700 I don't know that they do. 154 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:26.220 They don't. 155 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:26.860 No. 156 00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:29.620 And so she reached back out and said, 157 00:09:29.620 --> 00:09:32.700 I can't affirm that I will do this because I don't 158 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:35.180 have the authority to do it. 159 00:09:35.180 --> 00:09:36.780 They also wanted to know, will you 160 00:09:36.780 --> 00:09:38.940 attest that the county will not do 161 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:42.500 any business with any enterprise that supports abortion 162 00:09:42.500 --> 00:09:43.460 or something like that? 163 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:46.380 Well, there's legal and constitutional reasons 164 00:09:46.380 --> 00:09:49.780 why a county is unable to do that. 165 00:09:49.780 --> 00:09:52.020 Those policies are decided at other levels. 166 00:09:52.020 --> 00:09:52.940 Right. 167 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:55.740 And same, by the way, federal can also. 168 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:57.140 We deal with this all the time. 169 00:09:57.140 --> 00:09:59.980 For instance, a very particular example I looked at 170 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.840 when this came up was the county is self-insured. 171 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:04.680 So let's say that you're a county employee 172 00:10:04.680 --> 00:10:07.840 and you're in Boston, and you have an emergency 173 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:12.120 and you go to a hospital where they perform abortions, 174 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:13.320 the county would have to, you know, 175 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:14.420 they have to pay your medical bills, 176 00:10:14.420 --> 00:10:15.640 that's the agreement you have. 177 00:10:15.640 --> 00:10:17.640 So you don't have any control over this. 178 00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:19.740 So from a logistical point of view, 179 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:22.600 she looked at it and said, I'm not going to lie to people. 180 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.540 I'm pro-life and I'm not going to lie to them 181 00:10:24.540 --> 00:10:26.560 and tell them I can do things I can't do. 182 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:28.720 So she was attacked as not being pro-life. 183 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.320 Right, and by the way, I've had those surveys. 184 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.160 I've had them and I- 185 00:10:33.160 --> 00:10:34.000 And they're gotcha surveys. 186 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:34.960 Oh, they're gotcha surveys. 187 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.480 But there's one, I mean, I remember saying, 188 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:40.680 how much have you given to candidates? 189 00:10:40.680 --> 00:10:43.920 How much have you walked for candidates? 190 00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:45.880 What have you done for candidates? 191 00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:48.100 And what's really interesting, Amy, and you know this, 192 00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:49.520 but a lot of people don't, 193 00:10:49.520 --> 00:10:51.840 that this is predominantly driven by money. 194 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.200 Again, back to the Pharisees. 195 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.240 What was going on in the Pharisees' days? 196 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.240 It was about money, it was about power. 197 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:00.960 I think it's important for people to be very wise 198 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.440 and say, don't just listen to what someone says. 199 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.520 Steve Holt, the pastor here, has many times said, 200 00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:09.040 we should be fruit inspectors. 201 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:11.600 We should inspect the fruit of what someone's doing. 202 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.560 And so, again, I'm not going to say the name of this group. 203 00:11:15.560 --> 00:11:17.120 It probably wouldn't be too hard to figure out, 204 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.940 but this is a group that masquerades as a pro-life group. 205 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:23.480 And yet what they do is they attack pro-lifers 206 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:27.000 and then they send out financial solicitation emails 207 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.960 to pay for the people that run what is called a scam pack, 208 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.440 a political action committee that's a scam. 209 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:34.400 Right, and we've seen that on Second Amendment issues too. 210 00:11:34.400 --> 00:11:35.600 We've seen it on Second Amendment. 211 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:36.800 There's a major scam pack, 212 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:38.880 one of the largest ones here. 213 00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:42.440 So, I think as we engage politically, 214 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:44.640 it's important to be wise and to say, 215 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.560 Jesus did not call us to be foolish 216 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:51.600 and just to walk into a situation blindly. 217 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.160 He said, be discerning. 218 00:11:53.160 --> 00:11:56.200 Look at the fruit of what a business does 219 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.720 or what a person does and judge it by its fruit. 220 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.440 And that, I think that applies very substantially 221 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:02.360 in the political arena. 222 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.360 Well, you know, when you were party chairman, 223 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.740 this is kind of when this whole, I'm more pure than you, 224 00:12:09.740 --> 00:12:12.280 kind of, you're not enough is what I call it, 225 00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:13.120 the you're not enough. 226 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:15.640 I remember when the Tea Party was going on 227 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:19.200 and I was in office at the time and I remember thinking, 228 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:22.040 wow, okay, people are gathering around. 229 00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:23.240 This could be quite exciting. 230 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:28.240 This could be, you know, this could be helpful, frankly. 231 00:12:28.520 --> 00:12:32.200 But then it became very clear that the people 232 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:35.680 that were moving and taking that over had probably, 233 00:12:35.680 --> 00:12:37.560 few had barely worked a day in their lives 234 00:12:37.560 --> 00:12:40.440 or couldn't hold a job or in my mind 235 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.840 were even suspect in mental health. 236 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:45.440 I mean, you and I would go, 237 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:48.160 that's probably not a person I'd have on my team. 238 00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:49.400 And we would say, 239 00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:51.800 that's probably not someone I would go with. 240 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:54.920 And eventually we began to see the party 241 00:12:54.920 --> 00:12:57.400 kind of taken over by this. 242 00:12:57.400 --> 00:13:00.440 A number of years ago, this was right after my term, 243 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:02.480 but I was intimately involved with it. 244 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.200 We had a vacancy for a state Senate seat. 245 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:07.040 You remember this? 246 00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:08.320 Where there was a recall election. 247 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.480 And it was out of this group that they ran, you know, 248 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:14.520 the supposed Christian conservative candidate. 249 00:13:14.520 --> 00:13:17.480 And I remember a conversation with one of my best friends 250 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.040 who I was joking with him. 251 00:13:19.040 --> 00:13:21.040 I said, what do you think when we look at her background, 252 00:13:21.040 --> 00:13:23.360 we're going to find, it turned out she wrote pornography. 253 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.400 And so we had the Christian conservative 254 00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:31.400 and we had two former now former state senators 255 00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.000 who were part of this. 256 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.200 You know, I sort of call them the chief Pharisees 257 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.520 who were promoting a woman who wrote pornographic content 258 00:13:39.520 --> 00:13:41.600 as the Christian conservative candidate. 259 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.160 And so again, I don't think we can do enough 260 00:13:45.160 --> 00:13:47.360 to advise people to be wise and ask questions 261 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.240 because you know, the Christians were supposed 262 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:50.360 to support this woman. 263 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.240 And, you know, I'm like, wait a second. 264 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.360 You know, maybe I missed that section of the Bible 265 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.040 where this is how we're supposed to act. 266 00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:01.640 I want to ask about a conversation you told me you had 267 00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:04.000 with a former state Senator. 268 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.880 And you kind of went through the whole reasoning 269 00:14:07.880 --> 00:14:10.120 of can we agree to disagree 270 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.760 or can we have a different opinion? 271 00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:15.120 Well, and in this case, it was really interesting 272 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.320 because, you know, I know you've started the book 273 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:18.440 Getting to Yes. 274 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.040 And it's a great book. 275 00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:21.240 I'd recommend it to anyone. 276 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:23.280 It was written, you know, 40 years ago 277 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:25.840 and it's about how to get what you're trying to get 278 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.400 out of a negotiation. 279 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:30.840 And they talk about the difference between a position 280 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.760 and like in your principles. 281 00:14:34.760 --> 00:14:35.600 Okay. 282 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.360 And so I sat down with this former state Senator 283 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.840 who I'd been having issues with. 284 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:40.640 And, you know, he considered himself 285 00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:42.320 the most ardent pro-life person. 286 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.120 And I, you know, I said, well, hold on a second. 287 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.320 You've never actually passed legislation 288 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:50.360 that affects the life issue. 289 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.400 He said, yeah, but my voting record's really good. 290 00:14:52.400 --> 00:14:53.640 And I said, well, you know, 291 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:55.560 there's a whole different group of people that believe 292 00:14:55.560 --> 00:14:58.000 that if you reduce the number of abortions you've done, 293 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.320 you've saved lives. 294 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.760 Schindler's List, the movie Schindler's List, talked about the man who couldn't save all 295 00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:05.400 the Jews, but he saved some of the Jews. 296 00:15:05.400 --> 00:15:08.560 Now, frankly, if you're one of those Jews who was saved, you're probably not condemning 297 00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:12.640 him and saying he wasn't enough pro-Jewish. 298 00:15:12.640 --> 00:15:20.320 So that was when it really struck me what a disconnect there was, because he couldn't 299 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:26.080 even see that other people might have a different opinion, that if you say I'm for lowering 300 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:31.680 taxes and you cut a deal to lower the taxes by 5% because you couldn't get to 10%, that 301 00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.840 that was better, and that doing good was better than not doing good. 302 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:40.760 And again, I hearken back to, I think Jesus gave us some really great lessons. 303 00:15:40.760 --> 00:15:45.840 And he talked about collecting food for the disciples on the Sabbath. 304 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.040 Would you rescue an animal out of a pit on the Sabbath? 305 00:15:49.040 --> 00:15:53.720 And one of the message of Jesus was love your neighbor as yourself. 306 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:55.680 And this is not some warm, fuzzy deal. 307 00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:57.280 It was very practical. 308 00:15:57.280 --> 00:16:00.840 It was go do good things. 309 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:06.800 And so I look at that and I say, personally, I believe that politicians who advance our 310 00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:11.800 values are more effective and do more for our cause than the ones who don't, and who 311 00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:15.840 stand there and say, I got this rating from some outside group. 312 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.840 Yes, this group. 313 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:17.840 I get that. 314 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.160 And by the way, it was interesting because in that conversation with that former state 315 00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:23.120 senator, he was talking about these ratings groups. 316 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.600 And I said, so where do the ratings come from? 317 00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:27.520 And he said, well, they're objective. 318 00:16:27.520 --> 00:16:28.520 And I said, right. 319 00:16:28.520 --> 00:16:29.520 But who decided? 320 00:16:29.520 --> 00:16:30.520 Right. 321 00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:31.520 Well, it doesn't matter. 322 00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:32.520 They are objective. 323 00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:33.520 And I said, no. 324 00:16:33.520 --> 00:16:37.200 And Amy, let's be very clear, because I think it's important for people to understand this. 325 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.000 A lot of these groups who do ratings. 326 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.360 So if you're looking at someone's ratings, a lot of the groups that do ratings are special 327 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.400 interest groups that are making money off this. 328 00:16:44.400 --> 00:16:45.400 So what do they do? 329 00:16:45.400 --> 00:16:49.840 They've got a couple of candidates who they sort of own or a couple of elected officials. 330 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.240 And then there's oftentimes two sides of every vote. 331 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.120 And there's a reason why a good person might vote one way or the other. 332 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.840 So what they do is they say, OK, we need to bolster this person, this person, and this 333 00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.840 person. 334 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:01.920 And so we start with whatever they did was correct. 335 00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:05.040 And we back into that. 336 00:17:05.040 --> 00:17:07.920 Or we list a bill and we say, this guy was the champion. 337 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:08.920 Correct. 338 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:10.839 He was a champion on this bill. 339 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:12.440 And yes, everything from there. 340 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:16.400 And so when you look at these rating systems and things like that, realize there's people 341 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.400 behind them. 342 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:18.560 And you didn't elect those people. 343 00:17:18.560 --> 00:17:20.560 You probably don't know who they are. 344 00:17:20.560 --> 00:17:22.480 But I pretty much guarantee you they're making money off of it. 345 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:23.720 Right. 346 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:24.720 And they all think the same way. 347 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.480 And there is an inherent bias in everything they do. 348 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.440 And as much as I hate to say it, a lot of it comes down to money making. 349 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:32.440 Yes. 350 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.600 And you've been around as long as I have. 351 00:17:35.600 --> 00:17:39.120 We've seen that where there's this person behind the scene who couldn't cut it in their 352 00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:40.400 business life. 353 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:45.760 So they come in, they create this rating system, they judge oftentimes good people, and then 354 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:46.760 they make money off. 355 00:17:46.760 --> 00:17:47.760 Right. 356 00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:51.360 And we wonder then why we cannot find or have a bench enough of good candidates who will 357 00:17:51.360 --> 00:17:55.440 actually get in the game to run, because they don't want their own party running against 358 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:56.440 them. 359 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:02.400 And the idea that we have some of this going on right now has forced some candidates to 360 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:09.280 have to pay to get on the ballot, to pay for signatures, because their own party works 361 00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:10.560 against them. 362 00:18:10.560 --> 00:18:16.880 And I wish, you know, anybody living in another state has got to start seeing this is the 363 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:21.680 road to completely and totally losing your power, completely. 364 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.160 I mean, it saps majorities. 365 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:30.400 I had a guy, I was at a conference and he came up to me, he's from South Carolina, and 366 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:35.500 he was talking about infighting there, and that he's so worried about it because people 367 00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:41.840 are making crazy connections and in a way skewering each other, doing them in. 368 00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:46.720 It's why we say during the presidential campaigns, yeah, why not 16 Republicans? 369 00:18:47.560 --> 00:18:51.840 Let's jump in the race so you can skewer each other while the Dems just sit back, have one 370 00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:52.840 candidate. 371 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:55.200 They don't do anything else. 372 00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:03.600 I mean, to me, if people could look at Colorado and see how that has so worked against us, 373 00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:04.600 right? 374 00:19:04.600 --> 00:19:05.600 Yeah. 375 00:19:05.600 --> 00:19:06.600 It was funny. 376 00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:07.600 I don't remember who said it, but it was very clever. 377 00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:11.200 They said, you know, if someone were to do a postmortem on the Republican Party in Colorado, 378 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.720 it would be ruled a suicide, not a homicide. 379 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.680 And I think there's a lot of truth to that, and I hate to say it, but some of that has 380 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.680 come out of the church. 381 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.840 I love what I see out of this church. 382 00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:26.360 The church I attend is also very grounded. 383 00:19:26.360 --> 00:19:29.560 The pastor does a great job of saying, here's what the truth is. 384 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:31.560 You figure it out. 385 00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:34.080 Here's what the Bible teaches about sexuality. 386 00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:41.200 Here's what it teaches about abortion, and you figure it out from there. 387 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:47.520 I think that begets Christians who get involved and really understand better how to engage. 388 00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:53.400 We also see, on the flip side of that, people who get really revved up, and, you know, divisiveness 389 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.760 is not something we see around Jesus in the New Testament. 390 00:19:56.760 --> 00:19:58.120 We see—not Him causing it. 391 00:19:58.120 --> 00:19:59.920 I mean, He's—He sometimes— 392 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.080 ends the fight, but not starts it. 393 00:20:02.080 --> 00:20:04.520 And he doesn't, you know, when the disciples came to him, 394 00:20:04.520 --> 00:20:05.960 remember the disciples come to him at one point, 395 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:07.920 says, Jesus, Jesus, there's people over here 396 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.300 acting in your name, doing good things, 397 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:10.140 and we should stop them. 398 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.120 And he said, why? 399 00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:13.080 They're doing good things, 400 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:14.960 let them keep doing good things. 401 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.920 And, you know, yet we see that culture. 402 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.120 Unfortunately, that culture has taken hold 403 00:20:20.120 --> 00:20:22.840 at the highest levels in Colorado right now, 404 00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:26.740 of if you're out trying to defend life, 405 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:28.440 if you're out trying to protect women's sports, 406 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.660 if you're out trying to cut taxes or protect guns, 407 00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:32.060 but you're not in our faction 408 00:20:32.060 --> 00:20:33.780 and we don't get to control you, 409 00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:35.740 then we're condemning you. 410 00:20:35.740 --> 00:20:36.940 Right, exactly. 411 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:38.820 I remember as majority leader, 412 00:20:38.820 --> 00:20:41.740 I had someone from the other, 413 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:43.700 across the aisle, Democrat, come over and say, 414 00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:45.700 hey, listen, there's a few of us here 415 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:49.900 that are deeply religious, Catholic, 416 00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:53.320 and if you wanted to run a late-term, 417 00:20:53.320 --> 00:20:55.740 you know, an anti-late-term abortion bill, 418 00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:57.420 we'd be with you on it. 419 00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:59.440 That would never be allowed in the Republican Party. 420 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:01.720 Well, it wasn't allowed. 421 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.440 You know, we floated the idea, the speaker and I, 422 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.640 we said, great, we're happy to do that. 423 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.640 We think, again, we'll be, you know, cutting back. 424 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.820 And again, you had a faction that said, 425 00:21:14.820 --> 00:21:16.840 if you do that, you're not pro-life 426 00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:19.400 because then you're approving 427 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:21.880 anything below 24 weeks is okay. 428 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.060 And we said, how did you get there? 429 00:21:24.060 --> 00:21:25.960 Not at all, people. 430 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.100 But we have an opportunity, other side of the aisle, 431 00:21:30.100 --> 00:21:31.580 joining, right? 432 00:21:31.580 --> 00:21:32.660 To have a positive impact. 433 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:34.060 To have a positive impact. 434 00:21:34.060 --> 00:21:36.060 Nope, not having that. 435 00:21:36.060 --> 00:21:36.900 Let's rewind. 436 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:38.940 If our founding fathers had taken this approach, 437 00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:40.920 we never would have created this great country. 438 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:41.760 Right. 439 00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:42.740 Slavery never would have ended. 440 00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:43.580 Right. 441 00:21:43.580 --> 00:21:46.540 You know, when the Constitution was passed, 442 00:21:46.540 --> 00:21:48.300 slavery was still an issue. 443 00:21:48.300 --> 00:21:50.220 And there were a number of our founding fathers 444 00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:51.780 that understood how bad slavery is 445 00:21:51.780 --> 00:21:53.460 and that it's a terrible thing. 446 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:55.820 It had been going on for the history of society. 447 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:57.320 But it was wrong. 448 00:21:57.320 --> 00:21:59.960 And yet, because of the approach that they took, 449 00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:01.960 they said, we're not gonna be able to end it today. 450 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:02.800 But you know what? 451 00:22:02.800 --> 00:22:04.880 They ended it 75 years later. 452 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.800 And that was, you know, that was a high watermark 453 00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:11.140 for America that they did this. 454 00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:14.200 And I think that's a great path for us to look at 455 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.440 and say, we're not gonna win everything tomorrow. 456 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:17.280 Right. 457 00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:18.960 But can we make our state a better place? 458 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.420 Can we get it back to our core values that we agree on? 459 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:24.720 You know, can we get back to the point 460 00:22:25.060 --> 00:22:27.820 of individual liberties, of personal responsibility, 461 00:22:27.820 --> 00:22:29.100 of respecting life? 462 00:22:29.100 --> 00:22:29.940 Right. 463 00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:31.020 You know, respecting that women 464 00:22:31.020 --> 00:22:33.420 should have their own bathrooms and sports. 465 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:36.740 If we say it has to be there tomorrow or we give up, 466 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:37.980 well, we're not gonna get there tomorrow. 467 00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:38.820 Exactly. 468 00:22:38.820 --> 00:22:41.860 No, and to undo so many, and I mean, 469 00:22:41.860 --> 00:22:43.180 the federal government, of course, 470 00:22:43.180 --> 00:22:44.740 is the absolute worst example. 471 00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:46.460 But people tried, right? 472 00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:48.460 As a political appointee, you try. 473 00:22:48.460 --> 00:22:50.060 You try to undo some things. 474 00:22:50.060 --> 00:22:52.940 You try that. 475 00:22:52.940 --> 00:22:54.840 And it takes forever. 476 00:22:54.840 --> 00:22:59.080 I just have to say, if we cut literally half 477 00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:03.080 of all these departments, no one would miss a thing, right? 478 00:23:03.080 --> 00:23:05.280 And really, I wouldn't miss a thing. 479 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:10.120 And we began to see just to get the minutest thing done. 480 00:23:10.120 --> 00:23:11.920 And you know, I have to say, 481 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.000 we had a president who kept pushing and pushing 482 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.840 and saying, we have to get this done. 483 00:23:15.840 --> 00:23:17.200 We're gonna get this done. 484 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.580 No one's taking off till it gets done. 485 00:23:21.120 --> 00:23:23.280 There's merit in that in government. 486 00:23:23.280 --> 00:23:27.480 And I think so few people understand 487 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.280 that sometimes it's the getting to yes 488 00:23:30.280 --> 00:23:32.600 that you talk about in the gray areas. 489 00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:35.880 You're not gonna get everything you want. 490 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.280 No, and you know what? 491 00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:39.080 It's interesting to me that people talk 492 00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:40.180 about our founding fathers 493 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:43.640 and practically deify them politically. 494 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.560 And yet our founding fathers said we built the government 495 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:48.680 around having to compromise. 496 00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:51.300 And so, you know, our founding fathers would get kicked 497 00:23:51.300 --> 00:23:52.700 out of the Republican party today. 498 00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:53.540 Right, and Reagan. 499 00:23:53.540 --> 00:23:55.100 And Reagan would be kicked out, yeah. 500 00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:58.420 So, and what they meant by that is 501 00:23:58.420 --> 00:24:01.600 that the process is built around that. 502 00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:04.780 And so, you don't have to like it or not. 503 00:24:04.780 --> 00:24:07.540 It's not, there's no morality to it. 504 00:24:07.540 --> 00:24:08.980 It's sort of like saying, you know, 505 00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:10.660 my truck has an owner's manual 506 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:13.180 and it says you need to change the oil. 507 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:14.500 And here's the type of oil you put in. 508 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:15.540 Now, if I don't change the oil, 509 00:24:15.540 --> 00:24:18.300 eventually I'm going to have negative consequences. 510 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:21.400 So our founding fathers built this form of government. 511 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.480 They didn't trust human nature. 512 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.320 They didn't want one group to have too much authority. 513 00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:27.800 So they said, we're going to set it up 514 00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:30.320 so you can never get everything you want. 515 00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:31.920 Now that's a good thing because personally 516 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.880 I don't want the current people in charge of Colorado 517 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.560 or our country to get everything they want. 518 00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:38.840 In fact, it would terrify me. 519 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:43.440 And so yet oftentimes I see conservatives and Republicans 520 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.000 who say, well, I'm not gonna compromise. 521 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.300 I say, it's not a negative character trait to do that. 522 00:24:49.300 --> 00:24:51.740 It's understanding that the system was built 523 00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:53.460 that you're not going to get done what you need to 524 00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:56.460 unless you can find a way to work within the system 525 00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:57.660 to get something done. 526 00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:58.580 Right, right. 527 00:24:58.580 --> 00:24:59.420 Or raw power. 528 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.520 power days, right? We're really past, at least even here. The same kind of thing we see in 529 00:25:07.520 --> 00:25:13.760 those subdivisions, we see it at the Capitol. And a lack of free speech, a lack of, sorry, 530 00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:19.040 our way or the highway, because that's what's going to happen here, people. And almost to, 531 00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:28.840 well, again, it's so oppressive. It is so authoritative. And you think, oh, my gosh, 532 00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:30.640 10 years ago, that would not have been the case. 533 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.560 So Amy, you know what's interesting is when you said that, I had to actually think which 534 00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:39.560 party you were talking about, because they both act the same way in that you've got, 535 00:25:39.560 --> 00:25:43.480 but one controls the levers of government and the other does not. And yet you actually 536 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:49.480 just accurately described a lot of political figures. And if we're going to make the changes 537 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:53.920 we want to make and that the church body tends to want to see done, we're going to have to 538 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:59.320 be smart about it. And I just, I gave a speech last week to a county party and they asked 539 00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:03.320 me to come talk and say, how do we move forward? And I said, you know, one of the things that 540 00:26:03.320 --> 00:26:06.840 I've seen is that we don't, we don't engage other people. We do a lot of talking, but 541 00:26:06.840 --> 00:26:10.120 we don't do a lot of listening. And it was interesting. A gentleman came up afterwards 542 00:26:10.120 --> 00:26:13.400 and said, what do you read for news? And I said, I try to read all the news. He said, 543 00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:17.600 I only read Breitbart. And I said, I'm curious how many of the people that we need to persuade 544 00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:21.880 only read Breitbart news? He said, probably none. And I said, how many of them are reading 545 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:25.200 CNN? He said, probably a lot. And I said, that's why I read CNN every day, because I 546 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:29.520 want to understand what's out there. So I think we have a tendency to get very insular. 547 00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:35.240 And unfortunately, this type of thing, all it does is it feeds our gravitas, it feeds 548 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:40.680 people's egos and it says, ah, you know, I'm, you know, I'm so righteous. It's the Pharisee 549 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:46.320 thing. What we really need to do is, is frankly, have a little bit more humility about, you 550 00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:52.400 know, we have great answers. We have, we understand the biblical principles that can 551 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:57.600 go into, into governance. You know, it was biblical principles that led to understanding 552 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:01.080 that, that all, all men are created equal. And that means that based on your skin color, 553 00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:04.680 you're still equal, which led to the end of slavery. You know, these are good principles 554 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:10.360 that, you know, where do we see a personal responsibility? It's biblical principles. 555 00:27:10.360 --> 00:27:14.360 These are things that we want to bring into the government. And yet, if we, if we go and 556 00:27:14.360 --> 00:27:18.360 yell at people and tell them how amazing we are, you know, we're not evangelizing them 557 00:27:18.360 --> 00:27:22.840 into our cause. And if we yell at them and say, well, that person believes the exact 558 00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:26.920 same thing, but they're at a different click. So I can't support them. Then that doesn't 559 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:32.320 help us either. Right, right. And we saw that actually, uh, not just at state convention, 560 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:37.320 but we saw it in the County convention, right? People who said they were the Patriots, they 561 00:27:37.320 --> 00:27:41.000 were wearing some sort of little bracelet or something. I can't tell you how many people 562 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.880 I know who said they wanted to leave and take a shower after that. Now, God help us. 563 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:50.800 If you go into a church body and, uh, you know, when I go into a church, whether it's 564 00:27:50.800 --> 00:27:55.960 my church or this church, you know, I expect to feel edified in a walk out and say, okay, 565 00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:59.920 my spirit's been fulfilled. And yet that was a general feeling that people had this year 566 00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:06.080 was they, they'd never heard the kind of foul language, the kind of vitriol of people who 567 00:28:06.080 --> 00:28:11.840 were, who were doing this in Jesus name. Uh, and, and again, I go back to what I love 568 00:28:11.840 --> 00:28:16.760 Steve's deal. Well, let's be fruit inspectors. And if, you know, I, I attended an event that 569 00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:22.600 was hosted at a church a couple of years ago. And I remember walking out of that political 570 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:27.240 event hosted at a church and feeling like I didn't, I would not have wanted my at the 571 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.840 time six year old son to have heard the words coming out of the pastor's mouth because they 572 00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:36.160 were so vile toward other Christians. Wow. You know, uh, it reminds me, and I read a 573 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:42.400 wonderful book this year, Kurt Schleicher's militant normals. I get, I get the whole, 574 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:47.320 how, uh, the rise up of people going, look, we're sick of you giving away the house. When 575 00:28:47.320 --> 00:28:51.440 you get to Congress, we're sick of you, uh, changing, you know, you were this way when 576 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.800 you were here, then you got over there and now you're just, you know, I get that part. 577 00:28:56.800 --> 00:29:02.000 It's a great book, by the way, I highly recommend a militant normals. And I also recommend Douglas 578 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.560 Murray's the madness of crowds. And now I'm reading yours. Get to yes. But I would say 579 00:29:07.560 --> 00:29:15.120 that in that they're there. In fact, I, I remember this, this bill, odd bill, uh, homeopathic 580 00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:19.800 bill, uh, every year we'd come before us and everyone was like, ah, no one could come to 581 00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:26.440 agreement. Right. I mean, it's split. It's split every, the, the personalities on the 582 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.680 house floor as you run it are really interesting, but in this homeopathic bill, okay. Um, and 583 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:38.120 Colorado's big on homeopathy, natural meds. I mean, all we're, we're very East and West. 584 00:29:38.120 --> 00:29:44.560 And I remember the majority leader, uh, saying to me, because we had just switched in 2012. 585 00:29:44.560 --> 00:29:49.720 So we just lost. And she said, this thing comes before us every year. I think we need 586 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:55.280 to get this past. And I said, I agree. I agree. And it's so funny. We did get it past, 587 00:29:55.280 --> 00:30:00.000 but we had ours on my side of the, all over the map, all some with. 588 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.520 Some totally against, and D's on the other side. 589 00:30:02.520 --> 00:30:05.520 Some really with us, and then not. 590 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.400 But we got it done, and you would, 591 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.400 you know, even today, it'd be called, 592 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.240 well, that's completely compromising, right? 593 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:16.040 But now here, could we agree, could you and I agree 594 00:30:16.040 --> 00:30:18.800 on some benefits, the benefits of homeopathy 595 00:30:18.800 --> 00:30:20.800 for people who choose, right? 596 00:30:20.800 --> 00:30:23.120 For themselves, their children, yes! 597 00:30:23.120 --> 00:30:23.940 That's freedom. 598 00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:25.120 Yes, it is freedom. 599 00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.200 And so, I always think about that, 600 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.200 because it really required us. 601 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.160 She was on my side of the aisle, working the votes. 602 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.240 I'm on her side of the aisle, working votes. 603 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:40.080 We got the thing, but again, how rare that is today. 604 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:42.200 How, just so rare. 605 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:44.840 It is, and there's, you know, I also, 606 00:30:44.840 --> 00:30:46.040 on the one hand, I don't like it 607 00:30:46.040 --> 00:30:48.760 when a politician goes and they change, 608 00:30:48.760 --> 00:30:51.940 but that, there's also something that comes about 609 00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.560 the longer you're in an activity, you grow mature. 610 00:30:55.560 --> 00:30:56.400 Yeah. 611 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.280 The longer you, the longer I competed as an athlete, 612 00:30:59.280 --> 00:31:00.560 the more mature I was. 613 00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:01.560 Right. 614 00:31:01.560 --> 00:31:05.560 And so, you also, it's also good to have, again, 615 00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:08.440 a level of humility, and if you have a question 616 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:11.360 for an elected official, don't listen to the outside group, 617 00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:13.840 take it to them and say, is there a reason for this? 618 00:31:13.840 --> 00:31:14.680 Yes. 619 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.440 Because what I've discovered is that oftentimes, 620 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.760 there is a reason. 621 00:31:19.760 --> 00:31:20.600 Right. 622 00:31:20.600 --> 00:31:22.360 You know, and sometimes it's that the law 623 00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:23.560 doesn't allow them to do it. 624 00:31:23.560 --> 00:31:25.360 Sometimes it's that they can't get done 625 00:31:25.360 --> 00:31:26.480 what you think they can get done. 626 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.040 Yeah, that's actually very often. 627 00:31:29.040 --> 00:31:32.960 My wife woke up one day to 300 emails in her inbox 628 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.040 complaining about a development that had been approved 629 00:31:36.040 --> 00:31:37.800 in the city and saying, you need to block this, 630 00:31:37.800 --> 00:31:40.520 and some very angry people that were friends of ours 631 00:31:40.520 --> 00:31:42.040 who were sending her nasty letters. 632 00:31:42.040 --> 00:31:43.400 She had to get her staff involved 633 00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:45.680 and send out to every single person, 634 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:46.840 we're sorry you feel this way, 635 00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:48.740 you should probably address it to the city council 636 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:50.440 because it's not in the county. 637 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.800 And oftentimes, again, it's easy to get angry, 638 00:31:53.800 --> 00:31:55.400 it's easy to get wound up, 639 00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:58.760 but maturity comes from spending time in something 640 00:31:58.760 --> 00:31:59.920 and truly understanding it. 641 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:01.440 And one of the things that I've, 642 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.440 I still learn a lot and I like to, 643 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.560 I hope I keep on learning my whole life. 644 00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:07.440 I've learned to ask questions to people and say, 645 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.120 why is this the case? 646 00:32:09.120 --> 00:32:12.160 And oftentimes, you'll discover that it's not as simple 647 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:13.160 as we thought at first. 648 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:14.860 I mean, when you first got elected, 649 00:32:14.860 --> 00:32:16.480 you probably thought life was very simple. 650 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:17.320 Right. 651 00:32:17.320 --> 00:32:18.140 Until someone. 652 00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:20.520 And then you suddenly realize, 653 00:32:20.520 --> 00:32:22.400 wait, this is a whole lot more complicated. 654 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.040 Oh my gosh, you and I were talking about Schwarzenegger 655 00:32:25.040 --> 00:32:26.480 when he became governor and he said, 656 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.480 there is no university anywhere 657 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.640 that teaches you this with problems every day. 658 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:31.460 Right. 659 00:32:31.460 --> 00:32:32.300 I mean, it's crazy. 660 00:32:32.300 --> 00:32:35.480 Yes, and so, as people engage in the system 661 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.840 or you're trying to understand is my elected official 662 00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:39.440 or is this candidate gonna do a good job? 663 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:40.280 Right. 664 00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:41.120 That's something to ask. 665 00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:45.080 And it's also important to understand as people mature, 666 00:32:45.080 --> 00:32:47.040 usually that's a good thing. 667 00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:49.600 My son who's eight makes better decisions now 668 00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:50.560 than he did a couple of years ago, 669 00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:52.960 and he's still eight, so he makes bad decisions. 670 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.800 I point out to people who have this vitriol and say, 671 00:32:55.800 --> 00:32:57.360 this person's not identical to me, 672 00:32:57.360 --> 00:33:00.400 therefore, I judge them and I'm 100% opposed to them. 673 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.360 I say, I don't agree with every position 674 00:33:02.360 --> 00:33:03.640 I held five years ago. 675 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.120 And five years from now, I won't agree exactly 676 00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:07.600 with every position I hold today. 677 00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:08.880 That's maturity. 678 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.600 So if I don't even agree with myself over time, 679 00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.600 why should I hold somebody else to the standard 680 00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:15.400 of having to agree with me 100% of the time 681 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:17.160 when I can't even get my own act together? 682 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.760 Well, you know what's so scary at the Capitol this year 683 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:24.760 is to see people who really, literally from the House floor 684 00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:30.480 when I'm elected, I'm representing 70 to 100,000 people 685 00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:32.200 in El Paso County, right? 686 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.440 And I have, when I served, highly educated. 687 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.440 US Air Force Academy area, everybody retired military. 688 00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.120 So you better have an answer for why you voted, 689 00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:45.120 the way you voted, because they're gonna come 690 00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:46.680 and call you or email or- 691 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:47.520 Which is good. 692 00:33:47.520 --> 00:33:48.340 Which is good. That's okay. 693 00:33:48.340 --> 00:33:49.180 There's nothing wrong with that. 694 00:33:49.180 --> 00:33:50.540 Exactly, exactly. 695 00:33:50.540 --> 00:33:53.100 And, you know, to me, I was thinking, 696 00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:56.940 you and I lived through some of the worst vitriol, 697 00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.620 particularly when you were party chair. 698 00:33:58.620 --> 00:34:00.520 I mean, really, that's when things 699 00:34:00.520 --> 00:34:02.740 also began to really turn. 700 00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:03.580 You and I know, I mean, 701 00:34:03.580 --> 00:34:05.660 we had the health benefit exchange, right? 702 00:34:05.660 --> 00:34:06.940 I didn't pass it. 703 00:34:06.940 --> 00:34:07.820 I didn't vote. 704 00:34:07.820 --> 00:34:09.659 Michael Bennett voted on that. 705 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.860 And from the feds, it came to our state. 706 00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:15.179 Now, you either understand state-wide, 707 00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:16.100 it would be like abortion. 708 00:34:16.100 --> 00:34:18.179 If they said, hey, we passed it. 709 00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:19.020 It's coming to your state. 710 00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:20.699 So you gotta decide what you're gonna do. 711 00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:21.620 Federal or state? 712 00:34:21.620 --> 00:34:22.460 Yep. 713 00:34:22.460 --> 00:34:23.300 Who's gonna have the answer? 714 00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:27.300 You had to make a decision based on your authority. 715 00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:28.139 Right. 716 00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:29.179 And on what you could control. 717 00:34:29.179 --> 00:34:30.420 Exactly, and- 718 00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:31.420 And you- 719 00:34:31.420 --> 00:34:33.020 No handbook. 720 00:34:33.020 --> 00:34:34.380 Because obviously, you and I were 721 00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:36.699 in massive amounts of communication at the time. 722 00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:39.100 This became a big blow up around the state. 723 00:34:39.100 --> 00:34:40.780 And I remember very clearly, 724 00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:43.440 your logic was the decision, I believe, 725 00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.080 that is being presented is, 726 00:34:45.080 --> 00:34:46.460 do we let the federal government 727 00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:48.620 or do we have local control of our health care system? 728 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:50.179 Right. 729 00:34:50.179 --> 00:34:52.060 And I think if most conservatives 730 00:34:52.060 --> 00:34:53.239 were presented that question, 731 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.100 they would say, oh, I think the local- 732 00:34:55.100 --> 00:34:55.940 Sure. 733 00:34:55.940 --> 00:34:56.760 Controls the better option. 734 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.600 Just like with guns. 735 00:34:57.600 --> 00:34:58.420 Right. 736 00:34:58.420 --> 00:34:59.260 And if you're not given option C, 737 00:34:59.260 --> 00:35:00.100 which is neither of the above- 738 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.000 of which you weren't given, then you have to do it, but they wanted that. 739 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.000 Right. 740 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.000 Unreal. 741 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:15.000 And again, it looks so simple because you have people that don't think through some 742 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:16.000 of these things. 743 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.080 In other words, it's in a two second sound bite, right? 744 00:35:19.080 --> 00:35:20.080 Two seconds. 745 00:35:20.080 --> 00:35:21.920 That's the answer, right? 746 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.600 And it's kind of like saying, I'm going to go back to the floor, House floor this year 747 00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:32.280 where I'm elected to represent, but if I disagree with you, you're a hater. 748 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:33.440 You're a hater. 749 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:38.120 And I've watched those in control of the Democrat Party go, no, I'm sorry, you disagree. 750 00:35:38.120 --> 00:35:44.160 In fact, people were even told the kind of verbiage they should be using. 751 00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:49.760 Someone got gaveled because he said the word—he was arguing and said the word Planned Parenthood, 752 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:54.040 and they're like—they were gaveled, and he said, wait, what? 753 00:35:54.040 --> 00:35:55.040 They're a business. 754 00:35:56.040 --> 00:35:57.040 They're here. 755 00:35:57.040 --> 00:36:01.600 Another guy gaveled because he dared to talk about a resolution because his three daughters 756 00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:07.640 were back to the sports issue, and he said, I'm not comfortable with what's going on. 757 00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:08.640 He's gaveled. 758 00:36:08.640 --> 00:36:09.640 Right. 759 00:36:09.640 --> 00:36:10.640 He's saying, wait, what? 760 00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:16.080 And so the question becomes then, does my representative actually get free speech as 761 00:36:16.080 --> 00:36:19.320 we're supposed to debate these issues on the House floor? 762 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:20.480 I see that coming. 763 00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.800 I see that as a very big issue. 764 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:23.800 You and I disagree. 765 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:24.800 You're just a hater. 766 00:36:25.560 --> 00:36:26.560 Yep. 767 00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:28.560 We can't—and again, we're back to how do we get to yes? 768 00:36:28.560 --> 00:36:29.560 How do we get to yes? 769 00:36:29.560 --> 00:36:30.560 Or how do we get to no? 770 00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:39.240 And at a practical level, you don't get to—you don't get your policies passed unless you 771 00:36:39.240 --> 00:36:40.240 get a majority. 772 00:36:40.240 --> 00:36:41.240 Right. 773 00:36:41.240 --> 00:36:42.240 You have to have the votes there. 774 00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:47.360 You know, it's something that I think a lot of people who even are engaged in the system 775 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:50.920 don't understand the true civics and understand how do these things actually work. 776 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:51.920 Right. 777 00:36:52.040 --> 00:36:55.960 And in a speech I was giving the other night, I said, we've got to get back to understanding 778 00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:00.080 this stuff because if we don't, we're just going to keep losing. 779 00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:07.520 So I remember I was a much more—I was much more—I don't want to say rigid. 780 00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:11.680 I was probably a lot more arrogant about my beliefs when I was younger. 781 00:37:11.680 --> 00:37:12.960 And it was 2008. 782 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.800 I just finished in the Olympics. 783 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:18.360 And Senator John Kyle was in town. 784 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:23.080 And Cammie and I were asked to be sort of his—and we had the president of the NRA 785 00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:24.080 was here. 786 00:37:24.080 --> 00:37:28.800 And so Cammie was sort of her body person, and I was Senator Kyle's body person. 787 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.800 Great experience. 788 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.320 We drove down to Pueblo for an event that was poorly organized, so we wound up leaving 789 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.400 and coming back to Colorado Springs. 790 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.280 And I set up—I called up some friends over at Focus on the Family. 791 00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.220 We set up a meeting with Senator Kyle and Jim Dobson to talk about the election. 792 00:37:45.220 --> 00:37:46.800 So we were able to salvage the day. 793 00:37:47.240 --> 00:37:50.480 But we're driving up, and he gets a call from Susan Collins. 794 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.280 And he says, Susan, you know, it's okay. 795 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:54.280 Vote against me on this. 796 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:55.920 And then he hangs up the phone. 797 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.760 And I looked at him, and I said, Sir, what did you just do? 798 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:00.180 And he said, I'm the whip. 799 00:38:00.180 --> 00:38:03.560 It's my job to make sure we have enough votes to pass the legislation. 800 00:38:03.560 --> 00:38:07.720 Whether it passes with 51 votes or 61 votes makes zero difference to me. 801 00:38:07.720 --> 00:38:12.320 But whether or not she gets reelected makes all the difference, because if she gets replaced 802 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.680 by a Democrat, which is what would happen in that state, I will never get her vote. 803 00:38:17.560 --> 00:38:19.360 And people don't get that, do they? 804 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:21.160 It was—I call it my road to Emmaus. 805 00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:25.160 The scales fell off my eyes, and I suddenly understood—before that, I was like, yeah, 806 00:38:25.160 --> 00:38:28.640 I'm going to go get those rhinos, and I would have been—I'd have been Paul. 807 00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:29.640 I'd have been the rhino hunter. 808 00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:33.080 You know, if we're doing biblical analogies, I'd have been the Paul, like, none of you 809 00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:34.080 are pure enough. 810 00:38:34.080 --> 00:38:35.080 Right, right. 811 00:38:35.080 --> 00:38:41.240 And then, you know, hearing from this elder statesman how it actually worked, and I said, 812 00:38:41.240 --> 00:38:42.240 I get it. 813 00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:43.240 We have to be smart. 814 00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:46.800 We can't just stick our head in the sand, or scream in the wind, or whatever analogy 815 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:47.800 you want to use. 816 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:48.800 Right, right. 817 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:53.040 And, you know, I hope that we can be wise as conservatives and Christians engage on 818 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:56.040 the system and say, let's be effective. 819 00:38:56.040 --> 00:38:59.120 My minority leader said, vote your district or someone will vote it for you. 820 00:38:59.120 --> 00:39:00.120 Yes. 821 00:39:00.120 --> 00:39:01.120 That's very true. 822 00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:04.120 And it's very—no truer words, you know, have been said. 823 00:39:04.120 --> 00:39:11.320 As a majority leader, we had to look at our—you know, we only got the majority by one seat, 824 00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:12.320 right? 825 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:13.400 I thought it was them. 826 00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.360 We had to, you know, say, no, it was not you. 827 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:21.120 It was this guy, right, by 350-something votes, right? 828 00:39:21.120 --> 00:39:28.080 So you're hurting caps, but you always have to think, okay, she is in a re-election position. 829 00:39:28.080 --> 00:39:30.600 She just barely won her seat. 830 00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:35.400 She cannot take the hit on this vote, or we need to—you know, very often she would say, 831 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:36.560 I'm going to vote this way. 832 00:39:36.560 --> 00:39:37.560 I feel this way. 833 00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:38.840 We're like, you do it. 834 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:43.800 And Amy, to put an exclamation point on that, the way—you will never even bring a bill 835 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.000 to the floor unless you have the power of the gavel. 836 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.000 Right. 837 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:49.000 Exactly. 838 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:50.000 So let's be really clear. 839 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.400 The second you lose that majority, you can't block legislation coming to the floor, nor 840 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.600 can you force it to come to the floor. 841 00:39:56.600 --> 00:39:59.960 And so, if I'm scoring—you know, I came out of school. 842 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.480 or it's in business in the military. 843 00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:04.600 So I tend to be objective in my analysis. 844 00:40:04.600 --> 00:40:06.320 You know, in my business ventures, 845 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:07.800 you're either successful or you're not. 846 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.480 They don't give you an E for effort. 847 00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:10.840 You know, the Olympics, they didn't say like, 848 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:12.000 oh, we'll just put you in the Olympics 849 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.880 because you gave it the whole college try. 850 00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:15.520 You know, you did a lot of practices. 851 00:40:15.520 --> 00:40:16.920 I had to go win Pan Am games, okay? 852 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:18.560 They made me perform on the field with blood. 853 00:40:18.560 --> 00:40:19.520 No one cares. 854 00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:22.360 So in politics, the same is true. 855 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.000 If you lose the majority, 856 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.840 you can't push any of your agenda forward. 857 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:28.400 And so this is where- 858 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:29.840 Some don't care. 859 00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:30.680 Exactly. 860 00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.120 Because they care more to tell people, I fought. 861 00:40:33.120 --> 00:40:34.040 Well, because they make money. 862 00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:34.880 Yeah, they make money. 863 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:35.720 It's back to that. 864 00:40:35.720 --> 00:40:37.040 They make money when we lose. 865 00:40:37.040 --> 00:40:39.760 So it's really important to understand that, 866 00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:43.120 that sometimes it's more like watching a game of football. 867 00:40:43.120 --> 00:40:43.960 Yes. 868 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:46.960 Because, you know, and I use that analogy all the time. 869 00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:48.560 If you're on defense, 870 00:40:48.560 --> 00:40:50.160 there's times when you're gonna be on offense 871 00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:51.240 and there's times when you're on defense. 872 00:40:51.240 --> 00:40:53.240 When you're on defense, don't try to score touchdowns 873 00:40:53.240 --> 00:40:54.600 because the other team's gonna score on you. 874 00:40:54.600 --> 00:40:56.200 Play defense well. 875 00:40:56.200 --> 00:40:57.720 Try to get the ball back. 876 00:40:57.720 --> 00:40:59.640 Try to prevent your opponent from going there. 877 00:40:59.640 --> 00:41:02.440 When you're on offense, don't throw Hail Marys every time. 878 00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:03.720 Move the ball down the field. 879 00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:05.600 Sometimes you're not gonna get it across the finish line, 880 00:41:05.600 --> 00:41:06.840 but you're gonna get it closer 881 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:08.280 and you'll play the field position game. 882 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:09.120 Yes. 883 00:41:09.120 --> 00:41:11.160 And you know who's done that magnificently 884 00:41:11.160 --> 00:41:12.440 are the Democrats in this state. 885 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:13.280 Yes. 886 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:14.120 Yes, they have. 887 00:41:14.120 --> 00:41:18.560 The Democrats did not run a bunch of radical leftists 888 00:41:18.560 --> 00:41:19.600 to take over our state. 889 00:41:19.600 --> 00:41:20.440 No. 890 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:22.080 So, and Amy, one of the things 891 00:41:22.080 --> 00:41:24.480 that I've been thinking a lot about, 892 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:26.400 you know, because people, again, they sort of think, 893 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:30.640 okay, one really loud, obnoxious person 894 00:41:30.640 --> 00:41:33.280 who speaks the truth that I believe 895 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.880 is worth three who are not as loud and obnoxious. 896 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:36.720 Well, that's not true. 897 00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:38.120 They're actually worth exactly the same votes. 898 00:41:38.120 --> 00:41:42.520 I believe that the level of change in the government, 899 00:41:42.520 --> 00:41:44.080 whether it's conservative or liberal, 900 00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:47.600 is not based on how vitriolic the people 901 00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:48.440 in the majority are. 902 00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:50.400 It's based on the size of the majority. 903 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.240 Yes. 904 00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:53.280 Okay, because if you have a one-vote majority, 905 00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:54.600 you can get very little done. 906 00:41:54.600 --> 00:41:55.440 Yes. 907 00:41:55.520 --> 00:41:59.600 And you will accomplish the center of your party, okay? 908 00:41:59.600 --> 00:42:00.440 Right. 909 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:01.840 So that's very different 910 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.680 than if you have a larger majority. 911 00:42:03.680 --> 00:42:04.520 Right. 912 00:42:04.520 --> 00:42:06.840 And what the Democrats did in Colorado very skillfully 913 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:08.320 is they elected a lot of people 914 00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:10.600 that were squishes, according to them. 915 00:42:10.600 --> 00:42:12.080 But once they had a large majority, 916 00:42:12.080 --> 00:42:15.280 they could lose two, three, five, seven votes. 917 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.120 Right. 918 00:42:16.120 --> 00:42:17.440 And they were really governed 919 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:19.040 by the left-hand side of their party. 920 00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:22.120 Yes, and they are today, I mean, very radical. 921 00:42:22.120 --> 00:42:24.360 And so I think it's important for people to understand 922 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:28.480 that if you wanna see your values achieved, 923 00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.960 it's not achieved by having louder, more obnoxious, 924 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:33.200 more vitriolic people. 925 00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:35.280 It's by having more people who generally agree 926 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:36.720 with you holding those seats. 927 00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:38.440 Yes, yes, no, I agree. 928 00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.480 Listen, I wanna thank you for being here today. 929 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:43.880 These discussions are ongoing. 930 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:46.160 I may be calling you back, but they are. 931 00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:50.160 And, you know, really seriously within our church, 932 00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:51.240 these issues are happening. 933 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.280 And I think the whole be wise is very, very apropos 934 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:59.080 for right now, as well as the get to yes. 935 00:42:59.080 --> 00:43:01.920 I think as I'm going through this book, 936 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.880 I go, oh my goodness, how do we, it's not personality. 937 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:06.760 Is it issue? 938 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:08.200 Is it principles? 939 00:43:08.200 --> 00:43:10.000 Let's please get there. 940 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.600 And I think as Christians, 941 00:43:11.600 --> 00:43:13.560 we need to have people use discernment. 942 00:43:13.560 --> 00:43:14.400 Yes. 943 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.080 Okay, it's okay to ask questions. 944 00:43:16.080 --> 00:43:16.920 Right. 945 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:18.800 And, you know, when we're vetting candidates, 946 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:20.920 it's okay to ask them beyond what's your view 947 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:22.440 of the constitution. 948 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:23.280 It's okay to say, you know, 949 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:24.800 I need to know what's in your past, 950 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.400 because, you know, we have set up a system 951 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.080 where a lot of times people say, 952 00:43:30.080 --> 00:43:32.000 you can't ask those questions, 953 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.960 but it's up to us as Christians to be wise 954 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.080 and ask those questions. 955 00:43:35.080 --> 00:43:36.120 I wouldn't hire an accountant 956 00:43:36.120 --> 00:43:37.440 who has a history of embezzlement. 957 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:39.040 Be wise, be discerning. 958 00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:39.880 Yes. 959 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:42.320 Take your Christian values into the political system 960 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:44.560 and use the lessons Jesus taught us. 961 00:43:44.560 --> 00:43:46.720 You know, just because someone says they're a Christian, 962 00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:48.000 it's okay to ask the question. 963 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:48.840 Are they a Pharisee? 964 00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:50.520 Are they benefiting from this? 965 00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:52.160 I don't think most Pharisees know. 966 00:43:52.160 --> 00:43:54.040 I don't think most Pharisees, yeah. 967 00:43:54.040 --> 00:43:54.880 They didn't get the memo. 968 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.800 We saw that back in Jesus' day. 969 00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.640 Yeah, sure. 970 00:43:57.640 --> 00:44:00.520 And people haven't changed much in 2,000 years. 971 00:44:00.520 --> 00:44:02.360 No, true, true, very true. 972 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.040 It was the self-professed, you know, 973 00:44:06.040 --> 00:44:08.360 spiritual people that executed Jesus. 974 00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:09.880 Right, and as Steve will say, 975 00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:13.360 he's toward the kingdom of God, you know, revolution. 976 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:17.760 He wants to see this kind of stuff, operating discernment. 977 00:44:18.720 --> 00:44:20.720 And that's where we will make the most progress 978 00:44:20.720 --> 00:44:22.320 is when we're wise and discerning. 979 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:23.160 Yes. 980 00:44:23.160 --> 00:44:26.320 And we say, you know, the lessons we learned from the Bible, 981 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.680 you know, about the fruits of the spirit. 982 00:44:28.680 --> 00:44:31.120 You know, I look at that in politics and I say, 983 00:44:31.120 --> 00:44:32.320 how many times do I see someone 984 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:35.000 who is purporting to be following God? 985 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.960 And I say, I don't see any of the fruits of the spirit. 986 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.160 You know, call me crazy, but my Christian faith, 987 00:44:40.160 --> 00:44:41.280 you know, advises me on this. 988 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.600 I'm still working on my fruits. 989 00:44:42.600 --> 00:44:44.080 I got a lot of them to overcome. 990 00:44:44.080 --> 00:44:46.560 We all are, but to that point again, 991 00:44:47.160 --> 00:44:49.640 I think Christians need to be wise, discerning. 992 00:44:49.640 --> 00:44:50.560 We need to pray about it. 993 00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:52.960 You need to, you know, to test, you know, 994 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:54.120 Jesus said, test the spirits. 995 00:44:54.120 --> 00:44:54.960 Sure. 996 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.920 And when someone comes in and tries to wave, you know, 997 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:00.680 these are my values in front of you. 998 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:05.200 you great, but test it and be wise. I like it. Thank you. Boy, always great 999 00:45:05.200 --> 00:45:08.480 talking to you. Thank you, Eli Bremmer for being with us. Thanks, Amy. Thank 1000 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:08.760 you.