So I had just finished my audit and I just have to say guys that it was the best party
I have ever been to and it definitely over delivered in every way that I could have
ever imagined.
I didn't know what to expect to be honest.
I did know that I was going to come out with some crazy value and I did.
So much was unpacked in such little time and it was just smooth.
I've had businesses before but this is a different business I'm getting into and Peter does not
do all the work for you but he does all the work with you and that alone is already more
than you can ask for.
You're definitely ripping him off by getting all these things taken care of and he's there
with you the whole time.
We've robbed him definitely because this is priceless.
It's the value on your audit and just being in this protection portal alone is so much
more than you can ask for.
So mad props to the generosity that Peter has given us for allowing us to be in such
a community and I'm just confessing that to everyone so you know how real this is and
I just want to stand on solid ground again and say that Peter is the real deal.
He's just so thorough.
This guy is so proper with everything and I cannot be more blessed to have had him work
on this with me and I just pray to be successful so much sooner so that I can just go back
and just tell everyone, you know what, this is the guy, this is the man who helped me
get to where I gotta go.
Definitely one of the key roles into my success.
I just had my IP audit yesterday.
I'm very grateful for this program because I was stuck literally because of these copyright
issues that I thought about it but I didn't know how to solve them.
I tried to look for an IP lawyer but haven't been able to find one that is as knowledgeable
as Peter and experienced as Peter and so this time he really solved a lot of the long time
questions I had regarding the videos I created.
Each question, each situation I mentioned, Peter was able to help me to find an answer.
Oh yes, I started a company name, eventually we found that there is another trademark that
has the very similar name but we found another one which is closer to my Chinese version
and it has a higher possibility to be accepted.
So that is great, I was very excited.
At least I know there's a way to solve it instead of hanging in the air.
I just had my IP audit, Peter and Ray did an amazing job.
It just seemed to flow.
In between all of that we were laughing and having fun.
Peter gave me legal direction and discussed my patent and its history.
Then he gave me legal direction regarding the word trademark and the specific goods
and services that could be affected and we think we overcame a few items there.
I had a manufacturing terms and services document, there was proprietary information as well
as an indemnity clause and I read over those thoroughly, brought those to Peter's attention.
He read through them as well, gave me great direction on what to add, why he was concerned
about specific things.
I think we covered nine different things.
Definitely get prepared, look over everything you have, have more questions than you need.
Peter is more than willing to take the time to go through it and just a wonderful, wonderful
experience.
I just got done with my IP audit and I'm so, so happy.
It just was amazing.
Peter helped me find a great money making idea for a business that was something that
I'm already good at and I can just easily do it and put together a challenge and a course
and I didn't even know it was a thing.
A potential partnership came out of this that is going to be a win, win, win.
A win for all of us and the people that we serve.
My exact IP questions were answered and the, seeing the
Mark searching going on with my ideas just made it made the training so much more clear because I
could see okay these are my ideas and then this is where it doesn't line up it's too descriptive
or common terms that shouldn't be used so and then I came away with two business names that
are unique and available to trademark so that's just really exciting because that's where I was
kind of not not knowing where to go from from there and then I came away with clarity focus
peace and joy so I mean just just amazing amazing I feel like I'm so much lighter now and so much
more on fire to go and get my ideas done and and work on this money-making idea hi there I'm Eileen
and I did my IP audit last week with Peter and Davis so they get you prepared with a package
to you know have everything squared away what we're going to talk about and me being new in my
business I'm writing a book and I've got you know some coaching um down the road I was thinking okay
this meeting is not going to take long because I don't have much but after three hours plus three
hours with Peter one I just it was awesome I don't like lawyer stuff I don't like um you know
that talk but Peter just made it so easy he gave me just like a like a map of the things that I
needed to do that I need to take care of how to protect myself literally it was so much more than
what I expected and Peter just goes above and beyond so if you're thinking about it considering
it I highly highly suggest and encourage that you do you will not be disappointed
hey what's going on guys how's everybody doing good to see everybody I see Jeff hanging out it's
like this royalty chair over there probably doing like five different deals while he's watching this
at the same time uh and see all these other people that recognize this is awesome so what's
kind of funny is um we usually don't run that video until like day four like we usually it takes
a long time before we get to that video but this is a very different group I've had a lot of real
application real business questions come to me within one day like more in one day than I usually
get an entire challenge so there's more professionals in this group um than usual
so I mean that some of the questions that people have been asking have been really specific to
application within their corporations what should they do with one entity what should they do with
another entity how should they apply this how should they apply that what do they do with their
networks I've got somebody who's doing franchise work another one who's doing uh bringing books
in another one who's got like like five different trademarks are asking questions on
and so as we're looking at all this a lot of the questions had to do with the audit
like immediately people wanted to start doing the audit and so I showed that video that's a
handful of people that have taken the audit uh it's real guys like it's it's real legal work
it's in-depth it's hardcore okay um so now you know a little bit more about what the opinions
are the people that are actually have done it uh and you'll hear more about that on like day four
but um it's kind of funny that I wanted to play that now it's just because the questions have
come out I'm gonna hit one administrative thing and then I'm gonna jump directly into another
topic in copyright and then I'm gonna introduce our guest speaker who's here from DC which is
awesome Keith's with us which is really cool um I've met Keith before in Boston we hit it off and
he is uh he's brilliant and so I know you guys are going to appreciate what he has to share
uh but before we jump into that I just want to touch one administrative thing okay for those
of you that are in VIP because some of the people in VIP been asking very direct questions meaning
like life or death of the corporation questions like those are the questions that I've been getting
like literally I got a cease and desist letter I'm contemplating doing this what should I do
all right so here's the thing I can't give you legal advice meaning I can't tell you in your
specific situation there's a 90 percent chance of you being liable for trademark infringement
because of these seven factors blah blah blah I can't do that here I can do that in the audit
okay but in VIP what I can do is tell you what the law says so in VIP um I think we've already
answered around 22 different questions at this point I mean we've answered a lot of questions
already and it's still growing like people ask questions a lot in there um and so we guarantee
that we will answer at least one question but when we answer your question I can't tell you
yes
As your trademark is Feshir and the other person owes Feshift.
And there's no likelihood of confusion
because it's international class 41.
And it's blah, blah, blah.
I can't do that.
What I can tell you is exactly how the evaluation is done
so that you can make the decision
or make the decision with your attorney.
Now, if you want me to dig in, which
is what about 50% of people always want,
if you want me to dig in, that's the IP audit.
You want to get in there.
People are already signing up.
They're already getting booking that.
That's how you do that.
All right, so VIP, there's the link for VIP.
It was just dropped.
If you want to jump in there, that's
where you can ask at least one of your own questions.
With that, I want to jump directly into copyrights
and then introduce everybody to Keefe.
But there's an issue here.
There's two main issues that I want to cover today.
One of them is copyright ownership
when it comes to using anything in artificial intelligence.
And number two is, how many life coaches do I have here?
Just like business coaches or life coaches by a show of hands.
All right, so that's not a lot.
How about virtual hands?
There are a lot of, because I got about five
different emails.
OK, mindset coach.
I'm seeing other coaches.
OK, all right.
Any of you, real quick, any of you
who are quote unquote coaches, meaning business coaches,
life coaches, anything in that realm, your most valuable asset
is literally your materials.
Because for a number of you, your processes
can't be protected, meaning that you're likely not
going to be able to file a patent on your process.
So there's not a system or a method
that's protectable under patent law.
We'll talk about patent law in two days.
However, your processes that are being performed,
the way that you want to protect the processes that
are being performed is actually through protecting
your materials, your handouts, your software apps, your videos,
your audio, the name of your programs.
You may have an educational institution
that has a separate name, that has another,
that's a different trademark.
It might be a separate LLC just for that, right?
You can do that.
But the process, as an example, let's say that what I do
is I meet with people, I evaluate what their ideas are,
and I give them an IP audit.
And I tell them what to do, first, second, third,
lay it out for the entire year.
That's my process.
I can't protect that under patent law.
I can't even protect that general process
under copyright law or trademark law.
But I can protect the name with trademarks.
I can protect the logos with trademarks.
I can protect the flow chart that lays out
the steps through copyright.
I can protect the videos through copyright.
I can protect the audio through copyright.
I can protect my e-book through copyright.
I can protect my blog through copyright.
I can protect my podcast through somebody.
Somebody, anybody?
Viewer, copyright.
Yeah, you got it.
That's right, come on now.
That's what you can do.
See, and the beauty of copyright is it,
how much does copyright cost?
Somebody type in the chat.
Define copyright application.
What's it cost?
Boom, 65 bucks.
Come on now.
How many people here went to dinner this week
and spent more than 65 bucks?
I just went to lunch and spent more than 65 bucks.
And that might speak towards how much I eat at lunch,
but that's another subject matter for another day, okay?
The whole point, that might be a different challenge,
how to control your appetite.
That's a different challenge.
But the point being that copyright is the least expensive
of all the IP rights, but it can be very powerful.
It's like a sniper shot.
So if you've got these really good programs,
look at protecting your software apps,
your materials, your flow charts,
all that other stuff through copyright, okay?
All right, now I'm gonna touch base
for about three minutes on copyright ownership
and is Keith here yet?
Let me see if Keith's here.
Yeah, he's here.
Yeah, I'll turn on my video.
That is wonderful.
All right, Keith, give me two minutes
to reintroduce this topic
and then I will introduce you, my friend.
It's good to see you.
Yeah, good to see you too.
I'm gonna turn off my video.
You go ahead with your stuff.
All right.
And I'll jump in when you're ready for me.
That sounds great, all right.
So here's the thing, everyone.
When it comes to ownership,
we touched base on this briefly yesterday.
When it comes to ownership
of what you create using artificial intelligence,
namely, ChatGPT, MidJourney,
programs like that, AI software
that uses a neural network.
network on the back end to manipulate data or manipulate images and provide you with a result
based on your entered prompts right and we all like that name prompt because you're prompting
the software to spit something out that's what you're doing you're typing in something or you're
inputting something for the software to manipulate to give you a result okay or to draft results for
you when it comes to ownership this is so important please listen to this when it comes to ownership
of what is rendered the majority of the time you are not going to be able to own the copyright
associated with what's rendered because what's being rendered the result of what you're getting
is created by artificial intelligence this is a huge problem because there's a lot of people
that are using ai programs to create things and then they're presenting them to other
corporations and saying hey i'm a marketing specialist i just created this new logo for you
i just created this new introduction for you this new marketing campaign for you
it's all yours you can file a copyright on it and everything no you can't because it was created by
artificial intelligence all right that's that's one layer and keith and i are gonna explore this
we're gonna go deeper with this because i'm of the opinion that that's going to change
soon but there's a reason for it and we're gonna have a little discussion about that and keep
elaborate a little bit on that as well but there's a second part to this guys and there's a second
part that a lot of people are missing how many people here just by a show of hands really enjoy
reading all of the disclaimers and legal jargon that what i didn't even finish the question why
are you shaking your head already like let me finish it it's gonna get better no no it's gonna
get better so all the the jargon that i can't even finish the question people are shaking their heads
all right like you know the all the terms and conditions all the policies all that legal stuff
that you have all claimed that you have read because you all check the box saying that you
read it just to be clear you have claimed that you've read it okay so how many of you enjoyed it
just by a show of hands could i get an amen or something like nothing i can't get anything all
right ray thank you ray thank you right all right here's the thing i've read them okay i've read
them i'm the nerd in the background who reads these things okay now the majority of them
will have language that says that if you use the results for commercial purposes
guess what you can't all right now what does commercial purposes mean commercial purposes
means that you're going to use the logo that's rendered to make money you're going to use the
you know the the software the modification to the source code or the creation of source code
and modification to the source code you're going to now utilize that to make money
you're going to monetize that that's using it for commercial purposes you literally signed an
agreement when you agreed to some of these ai software platforms stating that you would not do
that now you can pay a fee all right and this is where i'm going to end and then i'm going to
introduce keith you can pay a fee a monthly fee to be able to use these in a commercial environment
but there's a hook that nobody tells you about the hook is the second that you stop using some of
these a second you stop paying these monthly fees you no longer have a commercial license
which means now that you no longer have a commercial license you can no longer use the
materials so the materials that you have created under the license under some of these this is not
all of them this is under some of the ai software platforms that you paid for the monthly fee for
saying that you can use in a commercial purposes once you stop paying that fee you lost the right
you lost the license to use it in a commercial environment which means now you are now in
violation of their agreement you gotta read the small print guys you've got you've got to dig into
this stuff this this place it's not the wild west but people are trying to figure this area out
and with that i want to introduce my friend keith kopferschmidt he is really smart in this area
um i met him in boston we had a little discussion separately about a few different things uh he is
the ceo and head of the copyright alliance he's done a lot of work in copyright and intellectual
property law and agreements working with different groups heading up different groups
seeing how they negotiate he's indeed you're still in dc right oh yeah yeah he's still in dc so he's
in the belly of the quote-unquote beast nice place slash nice place and so uh i just want
to introduce you keith just maybe we could start a little bit by
you could say just what is your own impression when it comes to this ownership issue? Like what do
you think about this ownership issue? And then we'll kind of talk a little, we'll elaborate a
little bit more on the prompts and the elaboration on the details of the prompts and then obviously
feel free to offer anything else that's going to help everybody. Yeah so before we get in I just
want to say I joined a little bit early just to make sure I didn't have any technical difficulties
and I'm glad I did because I got to listen to you talk about, you talked about, you asked how many
people were mind mind tech coaches and when I was in private practice I did some of that work and
your, not advice, your information was spot on. I mean it was fantastic because it's really all
about sort of like making a recipe. You got a little bit of, some stuff's going to be protected
by trademarks, some patents, some copyrights, but the processes itself you want to protect
all those individual videos and materials and you know everything all together. But anyway I don't
want to get too far into the weeds there because you just said that but that was fantastic,
that was just really really great information I think for the group. Thank you Keith, I appreciate
that. Thank you. In terms of you know copyright ability of AI, everything with AI, whenever we
talk about artificial intelligence you know we're treading new ground here right. So we're in
in uncharted territory. The copyright office issued some guidance on kind of how to register works
that might include some elements of copyright ability or some elements of AI generated output
basically. We'll talk, we'll definitely go into that in more detail but so they, but they were
they're the only copyright office in the whole across the globe to do that right. Everyone else
is still trying to figure it out and the copyright office has been going from country to country kind
of explaining the different issues and stuff. So and they have also said the copyright office
has also said that this is their first crack at it. They're probably going to make mistakes,
they're probably going to have to fix things but this is the first step in that direction
and so that's what we have to go with right now. So we'll talk a lot about copyright ability
of works that are created either solely with AI or partially with a using AI and you know and
what I tell you today frankly it could potentially change in the future but as of right now this you
know we can certainly talk about it and and I can tell you what I know about this and what you can
do and not do and things you need to need to be thinking about. So that's a great introduction
guys and just so everybody's really clear what what Keith is talking about is is the fact that
this is this is so new. All right now artificial intelligence in and of itself is not new. It's
been around for ages like a long time. Netflix uses artificial intelligence like that rhombus
that you have moving in your like in your living room. I mean if you've ever been concerned that
artificial intelligence is going to take over the world and like everybody's going to die.
Has your rhombus attacked you yet as you were sleeping in the middle of the night? Did your
vacuum attack you? Probably not. So this technology has been around. We're going to get have to get
used to it but Keith is exactly right. The the copyright office is trying to figure out how to
do this. Legal like laws are trying like courts are trying to figure out how do you deal with
these issues because there's no there's no precedent in some situations. So law is literally being
created. You're on the forefront of the law right now and you've got two individuals that are really
digging deep into this to try to help all of you out as we're trying to figure it out ourselves. So
go right ahead Keith. Yeah yeah no that's that's exactly right and and to your examples I'm going
to draw a dividing line here between two different types of artificial intelligence right. You've got
artificial intelligence or the Roomba whatever it's called you know the the that device and
and you've got other types of artificial intelligence and then you've got what we
call generative AI right. Generative AI is artificial intelligence that takes a a creative
work a copyrighted work ingests its copies it uses it and and lots of works and combines that
and learns from it to create other creative works right to create artwork to create a literary work
like a a short story maybe or a letter or who knows what in terms of text. Eventually it's
going to be able to create and it's restart a little bit audio visual works and movies and
and what have you and certainly music. It is AI for music. That's what we call generative AI
and that is really what the copyright office is most concerned about and what we'll talk about.
We may I might not say generative AI all the time but when I talk about AI I'm talking about
generative AI not the type of AI that you might use like Netflix might use to figure out what
movies you want to watch or or something like that.
That's quite a bit different, and the laws will apply quite a bit differently
to that as opposed to generative AI.
Just for clarity, everybody, so what Keith is referring to is there literally is a clash.
There's a difference between the two, right?
So one of them uses neural networks.
One of them becomes intelligent.
Gives it, it makes it so that the results that are rendered are very similar
to what a human being, quote, unquote, would render, right?
That's the one that he's referring to.
That's what we're most concerned about with the Copyright Office versus the ones
that are just kind of looking at trends
and just doing the exact same thing over and over and over.
That's a different type than what we're referring to.
Go right ahead, Keith.
Yeah, yeah, so, okay, so if you are using artificial intelligence,
there's a spectrum of copyrightability, okay?
On one end of the spectrum, you have work that is created completely
by using artificial intelligence.
So, for instance, let's say I put in, I'm using, let's say, Stability AI,
and I type in a green frog with a hat, okay?
What's going to come out is produced entirely by AI.
My prompt is really not giving it much information of any type.
And so what's coming out is purely AI.
That is not going to be protectable by copyright.
In order to be protectable by copyright, it must be, something must be created by a human.
So, we have on one end of the spectrum, something that's created purely by AI.
On the other end of the spectrum, obviously, is something created solely by a human.
You're not using AI at all.
You're drawing, you're doodling, you're, you know, you're filming something,
you're taking a photograph, you're writing a letter.
All that stuff's going to be protected by copyright, okay?
Because that's created by a human being.
The difficult part is everything in the middle, right?
You have this spectrum of different type of works.
On one point in the spectrum, you have human-assisted AI-generated works, okay?
So, that's, for instance, where AI generates something.
Let's say AI creates, you say, AI, create a short story about somebody,
a grandmother going to a market or something.
It creates a short story.
That is not going to be protected, that short story, in and of itself.
But let's say you go in and you start editing that short story.
So, you change the grandmother's name.
You don't like the market they went to or parts of the story of where they went
or why they did this or the other thing, and you start changing that story.
Well, wait a minute.
Now, you've got human involvement, human creativity included in that.
At what point do you draw the line there between what's protected and what's not?
That is very, very difficult.
And we'll try to answer that a little bit today.
But that's one point in that sort of gray area.
The other point in the gray area to talk about is the inverse of that, basically, okay?
Where you've got AI-assisted human creation, okay?
So, let's say you write the short story, and then you put it in as a prompt
in the chat GPT or something else, and you put it as a prompt, and you go,
can you fix my grammar, fix my spelling?
Or can you make this a little bit more exciting?
Or, you know, so, or maybe can you fix the ending or insert a chapter that gets me
from this point to that point, and then it gets a little bit more muddy, right?
And so, those are the points in between that become very difficult.
What the Copyright Office has said in its guidance,
and if you want us to read the guidance entirely,
you go to the Copyright Office website.
On the right-hand side, it says, if you just look on the right-hand side of the website,
it says, Copyright and Artificial Intelligence.
Click on that, they'll send you to a webpage, and then you can,
the guidance document is there, you take a look at that.
So, but what the Copyright Office has said is basically, for that short story example
that I gave, you can claim and you can register that short story.
But what you do, you have to disclaim anything that was created by the AI itself, right?
So, if you have the AI write the last paragraph, you have to say something like, okay,
short story by me, last paragraph by AI, or something like that, or some text added by AI.
So, something like that, you're going to have to disclaim that, okay?
And same with the inverse, if it's AI generated and you go in and tweak stuff,
you would sort of do the opposite of that.
And on the registration form, it's fairly easy to do, and for anyone who's thinking
about registering, I don't know to what degree, Peter, you've talked about this yet,
but if you're going to register, there's only one form you can use, right?
There are many different forms you can use under normal circumstances.
But if you're creating something that you have to disclaim the AI usage in it,
you have to use what's called the standard application.
It's the only form you can use, and that's pretty significant.
A lot of people have problems with that.
And the Copyright Office is going to change that over time to make it
so you can use other forms as well.
But right now, you can only use the standard form to do that.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So yesterday, towards the end of the class, everybody remember I showed you the Copyright
Office site, and then in VIP, we looked at it in a little more detail.
That's where you actually find it.
I actually dropped the link for all of you to see on the Copyright site where it refers
to AI.
In there, they actually were having hearings, they were having opportunities for the public
to speak.
They had all sorts of different things going on for consideration of what to do with AI.
What do you do with what's created with AI?
Now, one of the things that I've tried to coach everybody on here is that artificial
intelligence, these platforms are phenomenal for getting ideas of what to do, right?
But what I wouldn't do is actually have it literally create everything for you and then
try to take ownership of what's created because you can't.
So let's say you've got like, you're stuck, like in your brain, you're stuck in your,
you know, there's certain characters for the story you want to create.
And so you have like most of the story together, and you're trying to figure out the next chapter,
you know, you can actually ask it to give you ideas for another chapter.
But what you don't do is copy every word that's rendered from the application, and
then use it.
It gives you ideas, it can break, it can break the old, when the writer's block, it can help
you break writer's block very well.
One other thing that works very well, which Keith alluded to is, you can take some of
your work and you can have it modify things.
Or you can take one of the things that I've done, I've done something that's pretty cool.
I'll use otter AI to take my own presentations, transcribe my presentations, throw my presentations
that are not confidential.
We covered this yesterday.
I don't put anything confidential into these platforms.
Then I throw it into something like chat TPT, and I say, take this, this, this transcription
of what happened, and give me five main bullet points, put it in an email format.
So as to entice the members of my corporation to want to attend the next meeting or something
like that, boom, it grabs out the most important points, spits it out in an email, I tweak
it a little, bam, I send it out.
That's high usability.
But what we're talking about here is ownership.
When you're creating something that is important to the company, you want to be able to own
it.
You don't want your competition to just grab the same thing, and you can't stop them, especially
when you spend all your time and money creating this thing.
I mean, for some writers and for some creators, that's like their children.
And so you don't want the competition to walk away with this.
And so we're talking about ownership at the copyright office.
And so that's, Keith, I'm going to hand it over to you again.
But that's where we're, the biggest issue that I've seen in this area, really, I believe
if you go into incredible detail in the prompts, to the point where you almost become the photographer
taking the picture with the camera.
So you're laying out so much detail.
Instead of saying, give me a beach scene with a hammock, and boom, it comes out of mid-journey.
You're saying, I want sunset with this color, this many clouds, this many palm trees, this
many ridges on the palm trees, this color scheme being used in the background, this
type of sand.
I mean, you're laying it out in so much detail that it doesn't take the artificial intelligence,
a lot of intelligence, pun intended, to create the result, because you've laid out so much
of the actual image yourself.
That's the part that I believe we're going to see some serious changes in the copyright
office where people are going to be able, they're going to be able to do this assessment
and say, you know what, in that prompt, that prompt was so incredibly detailed, I believe
you truly are the author, because all the computer did was render exactly what you typed.
I believe that point is coming.
But what I don't want you guys doing, which is why I covered yesterday, is please don't
use ChatGPT to create the prompt for you to then put into mid-journey to create the image,
because you use AI to create a result from AI, and you're going to have, there's going
to be no room to argue that you can own the results of mid-journey in that case, because
you didn't create anything.
So Keith, go ahead.
What do you think about that?
Yeah.
No, that's, that's exactly right.
And when I mentioned copyright registration, it's all about ownership.
It is.
And as Peter said, I mean, you don't want your competitors be taking this information,
these materials from you.
And although there's no, there's no requirement right now, if you were to use AI to create
something, there's no requirement.
for you to label it created by AI or something,
there will be, that's coming.
I can tell you that's coming.
And so your competitors eventually will be able to see,
oh, this material is AI, that means they don't own it,
I can take it too, right, and use it.
So you might think, oh, I just won't say that I did it,
they won't know, they'll think it's protected by copyright
and I own it.
Well, you might be able to do that for some period of time,
but not for very much longer, I think.
And to Peter's point, he's also spot on here
where if you look at the Copyright Office guidance,
it's pretty basic in the guidance right now.
It doesn't anticipate
if you have a very, very detailed prompt.
And we've been doing these, at the Copyright Office,
we've been doing these demos with different artists
and authors and musicians to learn how they use AI.
And one artist showed us that she had
an image of a character
and she had a separate image of a hat
and she showed how she put that into,
oh gosh, I can't remember, it might've been Midjourney,
she put it into Midjourney and she told Midjourney,
put this hat on top of the character, right,
on top of the head of the character, and it did that, okay?
And so there you've got two prompts
that are totally protected by copyright, right?
The mix of them probably is also protected by copyright,
but the Copyright Office doesn't think so, right?
They don't really know what they're doing right now
because their advice is pretty simplistic.
They're just thinking like the example that I gave you
about originally with the green frog with the hat.
The other piece of information I wanna pass along
is you do not always have to disclaim
if something is created by artificial intelligence.
You only have to disclaim it
if it's more than what they call a trivial amount
or a de minimis amount.
So if it's a very, very small amount,
I think somebody had asked a question
about like spell check or something.
I mean, you wouldn't have to disclaim that presumably,
unless you're a really bad speller, I suppose,
but you wouldn't have to disclaim that
because that's gonna be really trivial changes
to what you've done.
Where that line is between trivial changes
and not trivial changes, I can't tell you.
I really don't know.
If you were to put some photograph, for instance,
into AI and you said, change the color here and change this
and we'll put a tree here and all that kind of stuff.
And I don't know.
I don't know whether that would be trivial.
The Copyright Office also has a video that they,
I don't think posted it yet or not,
that explains the guidance
where they go through many, many different examples.
And if you're still kind of confused,
you want more information,
that's not a bad video to watch.
And I think it'll be kind of helpful
because it shows you very visually
like what they would consider to be a trivial amount
and what they wouldn't.
But there's a lot of tough questions here
that need to be answered.
There's one thing in particular that I'm looking at
that I think is it may be a way to use AI
in an effective manner,
however, bypass this entire ownership thing
because the original copyright owner
has the right to create derivatives
and only the original copyright owner.
So if you take your original work
and you put it into, let's say mid-journey
or some other program, some other AI software,
let's for the moment not talk about the fact
that what you uploaded may actually become available
to third parties.
Let's assume that this is completely sealed
and no third party is going to see it.
If you are the original copyright owner
and you're using AI to do a slight modification
to the point where it's only considered a derivative,
meaning that it never gets to the point
of being a completely brand new work
for purposes of copyright purposes,
then there may be an argument
that the modification that was done by AI
falls under the scope of the original owner
because any slight modifications to the original work
are supposed to be owned by the original owner,
which is the person who created the original copyright.
I haven't seen anyone argue this yet.
This is something that I'm exploring right now.
And I'm wondering, I don't mean to put you under a gun,
Keith, I'm just kind of wondering
if you have any thoughts on that
since the original work is owned by,
let's say Julie in here to make it real.
Julie's got her own picture.
She uploads it.
She owns the copyright.
She makes the modification to the point
where it's only considered derivative,
not a new created work.
Since it is modified by AI,
the author of any new work is considered to be AI.
However, it should fall under the scope of the original.
owner, can she in fact file the copyright on that slightly modified work, even though the modification was done by AI?
So she can, but she may not want to. It may be a, frankly, a waste of money to some extent.
So if you have that original work and you've got a registration and you've got that's protected by copyright already, that original work,
and then you use it as a prompt and you, and the example I usually give because we've been talking to a lot of our music members about this,
is you've got a song and then you go, oh boy, we really love, it's like a really good song, but really would love to put a guitar riff in here or something.
And so you have AI do that and go, oh, this is perfect. Boom. It's great. And you put that out.
Well, you're going to own the original sound recording of the original song. You're going to own that.
OK, you're also going to own the song with the with the AI component, the guitar riff disclaimed, if you will.
OK, so you're going to own, but it's pretty much the identical thing, right?
I mean, the original song, the original song with the guitar riff disclaimed.
So you really don't you shouldn't need to do that. You'll be protected in any event.
But you are right. In theory, you would you could do two separate registrations and protect yourself that way.
I suppose it might depend on just how many changes you're making with the final version.
I think this is going to be an interesting discussion that's not too far away, because if you read the news, the Beatles are coming out with a new song.
Right. Even though two of the Beatles are not with us any longer, they have a song, but they had were never able to release it because the recording of John's voice is just not very it's kind of sketchy.
And through AI, they're able to fix that. And so that song will be basically protected.
But it'll also be a little bit different because of what AI does to the vocals in John Lennon's book and John Lennon's voice.
So anyway, we'll see if anybody challenges that. Yeah, that's about it's a really good point.
And so the the the reason why I wanted to walk through that scenario, everybody, is because I want you to understand the power of a sixty five dollar registration.
What Keith just walked you through and what I just walked you through was that original copyright application that was filed is so powerful that it covers not only the original work, but derivatives.
So therefore modifications that are being done through mid journey through other programs should fall under the legal rights of the original copyright owner.
So whatever you are creating your original works, you should protect if it's important to you, because then if somebody modifies it and it falls into the category of a derivative, they cannot do that.
You own the original work, whether or not you file for rights on the new one really is not as important.
And quite frankly, as Keith said, it may be a waste of money, quite frankly.
But the fact that it matters, the only one who can create the derivative is the original copyright owner.
Keith, you've been like really generous with your time. I mean, I asked you for like 15 minutes. You've been here for like a half hour already.
So I just I want to thank you personally. I know how incredibly busy you are.
I think maybe I'll ask and see if there's like one or two questions and then, you know, I'll let you go if you're OK with that. Are you OK with that?
Yeah, no, I'm here. I'm fine. I have the time and I'm very happy to do it.
And I will mention, too, that if anyone has any questions, obviously, Peter is just a huge fountain of information here and a great resource.
But on our on our Web site at the Copyright Alliance dot org, we have lots of FAQs and we only do copyright.
So you won't find any trademark information or patent information there. But any questions you have on copyright, we we try to answer a lot of them.
And if there's no answer up there, you can send us your question and we'll try to put an answer up there.
Yeah. And in the private group, we'll actually give you the contact information for the Copyright Alliance as well.
So, Anita, I knew you had a question. Let me unmute you.
OK, go right ahead. So my question is about royalties.
You were talking about the Beatles and Lennon, of course, is deceased.
So do his heir still qualify for royalties or is that because now it's animated or artificially manipulated? Is it no longer him?
So if you've been watching the news, there's a strike going on, a couple of strikes.
And that issue is subject to the strike. Now, not necessarily in the music area.
But if you were to take that same example in movies, right, if, let's say, someone's passed the law passed on and you have some excerpt of of a deceased actor that you want to put into a movie or something.
Does that actor get paid? Do their heirs get paid? That is one of the issues that is at the heart of the strike going on with the studios and labor.
And so I'm not going to opine on that. And that will all be resolved by contract.
And the same is generally going to be true in music.
too, you'd have to go back and look at their contracts
and agreement.
I would think, as a general matter,
that his heirs probably would get paid.
But you never know.
And certainly, back in the Beatles' day,
no one ever anticipated something like this, like AI.
So I have to say, I just don't really know the answer.
A lot of it's going to just depend on the agreements
that they have in place, I think.
Yeah, and Anita, this is a body of law called likeness.
It's a really big area right now, specifically in AI.
Matter of fact, if you're really interested,
Arnold Schwarzenegger recently did a song on the hills.
The hills sing music.
The hills are music, something like that.
If you look at online, you'll see Arnold Schwarzenegger
singing in a dress what was formerly
in Little House on the Prairie, or whatever the old sequence
was when the woman is singing and spinning
about the hills, singing.
Sound of music.
What is it?
Sound of music.
Sound of music, yeah, that's it.
But you can hear Arnold, he's like, get the chopper.
He's singing that as he's dancing.
It's all artificial intelligence.
It's absolutely hilarious.
I'm pretty sure he didn't get any royalties.
But the whole point being that there is
a body of law called likeness.
If you look it up on the internet, you see a ton of it.
It crosses over with intellectual property law.
It does hit on copyright.
It's a specialty area where, as of right now, as Keith said,
there's a huge strike going on.
I have a friend of mine who's actually out in Los Angeles.
And she's actually out there picketing, walking the streets,
not doing any films, because this is such a big issue.
Because that's how they make their money.
And now all of a sudden, can you imagine all of a sudden
that an artist no longer is needed,
because their likeness is, quote unquote,
owned by the company that actually gave them
the character?
I mean, could that actually be?
Is that even possible?
I mean, think of somebody like Jim Carrey.
Go ahead, Keith.
Yeah, no, I was going to say, so remember at the beginning,
I said, OK, I'm going to tell you what's going on now.
But a year from now, two years, things might be different.
There's something called right of publicity.
And that's really state law, not federal law.
There is no federal right of publicity.
That's probably going to change because of AI.
And Congress has been talking about a federal right
of publicity law.
And right of publicity laws differ depending
on what state you're in.
California's got a very strong right of publicity law.
New York, too.
But if you go to other, some states don't even have it.
The big differentiation is, does right of publicity
survive your death?
In some states, once you pass on,
you have there is no right of publicity.
In others, no.
It still passes on to your heirs.
But there's almost certainly going
to be a right of publicity.
And I'll tell you why.
Congress doesn't do very much sometimes.
But when congressmen's public, their images are threatened,
I think they're going to take action.
So you'll see some law probably within the next couple
of years having to do with that issue, spot on.
That's right, absolutely.
All right, we'll take one more question.
Todd Engwald, how are you?
Good to see you, brother.
Good to see you.
Thank you.
Yeah, my question was just basically how to use MidJourney.
And I've read through their terms.
It doesn't look like you have to keep on paying MidJourney.
But you can use it commercially as long as you're a paid user.
Now, I have a question on other softwares
that are connecting to their API and adding
the images with music or a sound or a voice, AI voice.
How do you get the rights to use that commercially?
And what does commercially mean?
Like, I'm not trying to sell a video,
but I like the video to promote my nonprofit work just
to raise awareness.
How does that all work?
Do you want me to take that, Keith, or you got it?
I'll let you take that.
I don't have anything else to add.
But I think this is a sort of very specific question.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
So all right, so Todd, I know you personally.
I know how brilliant you are.
And I know what kind of work you do.
So this question really begs the question
of what if you're using multiple software platforms that
have different rights, right?
So you've got MidJourney here.
It says as long as you're paying their monthly fee,
you have a commercial license to use whatever's produced
and make all the money you want, right?
Now, just to be clear so everybody understands,
that does not mean that MidJourney
is going to indemnify you from a copyright lawsuit
or a trademark lawsuit.
That does not mean that.
It just means that they're saying you can do it.
use what's rendered, and we won't go after you.
Now, it's your job.
And those of you that are in VIP,
I'm going to talk a lot more about this today.
It's your job to make sure that whatever is produced
doesn't infringe upon somebody else's legal right.
That's your job, not MidJourney's job.
They're waiving all rights to that.
And by the way, that thing that you signed,
you told them that was OK.
But here's a question.
What if I'm taking another software platform,
and I'm taking the results of one
and I'm incorporating into another one?
Like, I've got a commercial license here.
If this program over here doesn't
have a commercial license, can I use them
and use a commercial license for MidJourney
and take the result and use it commercially?
If, in fact, there is no trump card in software applications.
So for software application number one,
I get a commercial license, meaning
that I can use it and make money using interstate commerce,
sell products, sell services.
There's no preemptive right that says, OK,
since I have it for MidJourney, now
that I'm using it for XYZ software platform,
what I get from XYZ platform added
to what I have for MidJourney now
makes it so that I can use that result commercially.
That is not the case.
You've got to look at each application one by one
and see what the terms and conditions are
for every single one of them.
Anything that's added by any one platform,
you've got to make sure it gives you that commercial license.
Or in the example of Adobe Firefly, which is pretty cool,
they use open source content.
They use licensed content.
So you really don't have to worry about the results.
Unless they change that recently,
they intentionally came out making it
so that anything that's rendered is already licensed.
It's an open license.
You can use it anytime you want.
You can modify it any way you want.
No problems.
So that means that you can take something
that gives you a commercial license,
add on Adobe Firefly to do some tweaking, and you're fine.
But if you're adding another software program
that has an agreement that says,
look, you must pay X amount per month, or you can't use this,
the fact that you got a commercial license
from the software, the first software program
does not mean it carries on to the second one.
So now you can use the second software platform's results
as well.
You've gotta look at every agreement one by one.
I'll give you one example of this.
I was in a meeting with a marketing team,
and one of my team members saw that on the screen,
there was a little logo that showed
that this was being recorded by artificial intelligence.
What I was discussing was being recorded
by artificial intelligence.
My own teammate, Ray Carter, highlighted it.
She said, hey, do you realize that you're using AI
and we're having a confidential conversation here?
Like what's being recorded is now being stored
in a third-party platform,
which potentially is accessible by another party,
which then takes what's confidential
and potentially makes it available to the public.
You can't do that.
They shut it off immediately.
So the whole point being
that you've gotta look at each program.
You've gotta understand as the party who owns the company,
owns the material, it's your job, nobody else's job.
And if you have a company, you have a marketing team,
it's your job to make sure
that your marketing team understands
what software they can use, what they can't use,
what they should do and what they shouldn't do.
Nobody else's, it's your job to do that.
I hope that helps, Todd.
That does, and can you clarify commercial use?
Like let's say you're not selling that video
that it created, you're just using that for promotional use.
Is that commercial use?
Or if I sell that video, that's commercial?
That's a great question.
I mean, personally, from what I've seen in litigation,
if there's any finances that are going to come back
and forth, any benefit that's gonna come back and forth,
those are often considered to be quote-unquote
commercial use.
So if you're using it for advertising,
but you're literally not making money
on the transaction of the advertising,
in fact, you're losing it on Facebook ads,
it still can be considered commercial use
because there's a financial gain
that's going to come out of it.
And so anything kind of public
where you're going to have an expectation
of something coming back,
that's kind of how the courts are looking at
quote-unquote commercial use.
It's very broad.
Any thoughts on that, Keith?
Yeah, no, I was just gonna agree.
That's completely right.
If you look at, there's various cases on this
having to do with uses by Google,
uses by influencers, for instance,
they might use something, a copyrighted work
to gain followers and you might go,
okay, well, that's not commercial,
you're just gaining followers.
But the courts have said that would be considered
to be commercial, something like that,
because...
By increasing the followers, they're
improving their reputation and notoriety.
And therefore, they can make money.
It'll help them make money in other ways.
So commercials are usually interpreted by the courts
pretty broadly, as Peter mentioned.
So I think you're best off kind of making that assumption
that it would be interpreted pretty broadly.
Absolutely.
Everybody, can you please join me
in thanking Keith for his time?
I personally want to thank you.
Light up the chat with just hearts, fire,
whatever you got to do.
Let this man know how much he's appreciated.
Personally, Keith, I'm very grateful for your time.
Thank you.
You're more than welcome to stay and stop by anytime you want.
But I want to respect your time because I
know you're a busy man.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
I really love talking to the group here.
I do have to leave, though, because my dog
is crossing her legs.
So I will have a mess to clean up if I don't.
But I do appreciate all the thank yous
and everything in the chat there and enjoyed being here.
So thank you very much for inviting me.
Absolutely.
We'll be in touch, my friend.
Thanks for your time.
OK, bye-bye, everyone.
All right, take care.
Everybody, how cool was that?
Guys, you just heard from one of the most versed and most
knowledgeable individuals in Washington, DC.
And he just volunteered to help us out.
So that's what happens, honestly.
When you're trying to help people out,
people will make themselves available
to help you serve others.
And so whatever your calling is, I
would strongly urge you to pursue your calling
because somehow, I mean, just by the grace of God,
the people align to help you out when
you're trying to help others.
It's when you're just trying to monopolize everything.
That's when everybody's quiet.
So with that, I'm going to cover one more topic.
I hope that was helpful.
Was that helpful just by a show of hands?
Help you guys out?
Good, OK.
That was probably one of the most thorough,
at least from what I've seen, because I've
gone to different conventions and watched
different virtual things.
That's probably one of the most thorough overviews
of copyright law and AI.
We should probably package that up, Ray, honestly,
because that could help a lot of people.
So with that being said, I want to cover a little more
in the area of materials that you're
going to be using to grow your business,
to excel as a business.
And when do you know when it's something you should protect
and when it's something maybe I don't care about protecting
or not?
The reason why I'm asking this or I'm raising this
is because some of you have got like 1,000 different things.
And you can't afford to file 1,000 different copyright
applications.
Like, I don't know too many people
that want to spend $65,000 on copyrights.
I had a discussion a few weeks ago with DC Comics
and one of their lead attorneys over there.
And Chris, he's the one who filed the trademark
application.
He filed the trademark application for Shazam.
He filed the trademark application for modifications
of Batman.
No, no, not for Batman.
It was for a few other ones.
There were a few other ones.
I think it was Spawn.
I think Spawn was another one.
Anyways, he has his name on like probably 60 different trademarks
for DC Comics.
And we had a discussion with regard to a specific name.
And we had a discussion with regard to copyrights.
And one of the things we kind of touched base on
was, why bother?
Like, if you've got a lot of different things,
how do you make that choice on which one to protect?
So this is a very practical question.
So if you've got like 10, 15 different things
that you're looking at potentially protecting,
which is the one that's going to be out in the public the most?
Which is the one that's going to get you the most upset when
it shows up on your neighbor's wall?
Which is the one that's going to get you the most upset
when you see it on eBay or on Amazon?
Like, which one is it?
That's the one you protect, OK?
This is not like some high-tech detailed analysis.
That's the one you want to protect.
Straightforward, just go, that's what you want to protect.
If you are a designer of dresses and all sorts
of amazing things, the one that is the most well-known,
sells the most volume, that's the one you want to protect.
Talk to your marketing teams.
Now, with this being the case, is it 6,500 or 1,000 or is it?
Oh, that's a great question.
OK.
Copyright is one of the only government grants
that you're trying to get.
cards for once, okay?
It's funny, I actually have never thought of this.
I've done this for 25 years
and I've never had somebody ask that one question.
Is it a one-time fee or is there an ongoing fee structure?
Copyrights you pay once, you file, you own it, that's it.
It's all yours, right?
That's it.
Which makes it even better guys
because when we get into trademarks tomorrow,
there'll be some crossover for copyright.
But when you get into trademarks, you got to pay renewals.
You have to pay for like, you know, five year, 10 year.
You've got to do these section eight, section nine,
section 15, all these new like renewals
and making things so that they can't be challenged.
It costs more money.
Copyright's one of the only things.
Don't tell the government
they are losing out on renewal fees.
I like that, Diane.
Yeah, let's not, guys, nobody talk about this, okay?
This is, I've never even thought about this, but it's true.
This is one, this is probably the only area
I can think of in intellectual property law
where there's a single fee, it's a low fee
and you don't continue paying.
And the legal right lasts you for a very long time.
Even after a person dies,
I think it lasts for like 75 years after they die.
Like that's a long time, right?
Which works really well because a lot of artists
become really famous after they die.
So I guess it's sort of benefit of the family.
Okay, so, but if there's any artists here,
you're going to be famous now.
You're going to do well now.
We're not going to wait till you die, okay?
We're going to help you out now.
Got this, all right.
All right, we are going to break
and go into VIP in 10 minutes, in 8.15.
Guys, there are,
there's a lot of stuff we're going to cover in VIP.
Okay, so if you're interested in VIP,
I'm not trying to urge you to get in,
but if you've got questions, get in,
because you're going to get at least one question answered.
Now, just to be clear, again,
we covered this when we first started out.
You get at least one question answered, right?
This is not the IP audit.
In the IP audit, you can literally ask me anything you want
on anything in IP and even some corporate stuff
and licensing negotiations and terms and conditions.
You could ask me tons of stuff.
I am yours essentially for three hours, okay?
And I can't go anywhere.
I'm like captive audience.
And I'll use all that I have that's accessible to me
to make sure that you are highly successful.
But that is not what VIP is.
VIP is we go in deeper, I give you further training,
and then separately, I answer some questions.
It's not legal advice.
Legal advice is the audit.
I know there's a number of you that are already,
there were, I think, 19 people on day one
that checked out the audit, like 19 people.
I think it went up to 21 by midnight or something like that.
So there's a lot of people that are interested in this.
If you have specific questions, you can stay on now,
or you can DM me separately.
I'm very happy to answer your questions
because I know you guys want your companies to succeed,
and I will help you out.
And yes, you need to drink water, so I'm gonna stop now.
So go drink water, yeah.
I haven't said anything about legal advice.
That's right.
David wants some not legal advice.
This is not legal advice.
All right, I'll give you one thing that's not legal advice.
There you go.
One thing that's not legal advice.
Okay, and this is a preview for tomorrow.
If somebody has a federally registered trademark,
you cannot and will not add one word, two words,
three words, or whatever it is to what they have
and file for it or believe it's yours.
That is called trademark infringement,
and that was not legal advice.
There you go.
Go take your bio breaks.
Go take whatever breaks you need.
Bless you guys.
I'll stay on to answer any questions
with regard to the audit
because people are already booking for that.
So I wanna make sure that people get to be in there early.
So everybody else that's in VIP,
I'll see you there at 818, 818, 818.
That's 10 minutes.
It gives you guys 10 minutes.
Also, if you have decided to just sign up for VIP,
raise your hand, put a note in, and stay here for a second.
That Zoom doesn't open till we close this one.
We do wanna make sure that you get the link
because it's a separate link.
It's not the same link for this.
So if you just signed up, raise your hand,
reach a virtual hand, or put it in the chat
so Ray can help you out should you need it.
All right, Candice-
I can definitely-
Just real quick.
Candice has asked a really important question.
Somebody just asked-
How fast can I schedule an audit?
If you sign up now, you can schedule it now.
All right, that's how important I know this is
because I know you guys are running companies.
I know it as a fact because I'm getting emails
from some of you.
Some of you have got some really important questions.
If you book it now, we will call you now and schedule.
All right, and by the way,
that is not a service that we usually do,
but I just know that the caliber of the people
that are in this room are real people
that are real businesses.
It's not like people would just kind of,
oh, I just want to learn something.
Like this is real life.
And so, yeah, if you purchase it now,
it's first come first serve though, guys.
So we will go into ClickFunnels, see who ordered now.
We will call you personally and book it literally today.
All right, and I'll help on that, Ray, so don't panic.
Okay, because Ray's like, what did you just say?
You did not just say that.
Yes.
And they have parameters.
Don't know me so well.
I know, I just saw it on your face.
I was like, oh my gosh,
that messes up our whole onboarding process,
but we'll do it.
I know, well, yeah, but I can at least book it now.
Yeah.
So, because I have access to my calendar
and everybody is always waiting for me
to be able to do things, so.
Also to piggyback on Larissa's comment about VIP,
I added a button and a link on the page to join VIP.
So as soon as this room closes,
just keep clicking it and wait for it to open up
and we'll be over there at 218.
Makes sense.
So it's there as well as an email.
If not, you can message me on Facebook
and I can shoot you a link after verifying too.
All right, it looks like Diane literally just signed up.
So Diane, I'll call you up right now and I'll book it, okay?
I've literally never done this before,
but I know how many people are just really
like in business right now.
This is not a joke.
They want their company to be successful.
So I'll do it right now.
So I'm going to give you a buzz right now.
All right, I'm going to jump off so I can call her.
Do you see Candice's question?
Candice has a question, let me see.
Right at the bottom of the chat.
Does the audit cover up and does it cover up in websites?
Yeah, websites are included.
Yep, everything.
All right, just so you guys understand
what happens in this audit.
Every single ounce of my knowledge
will be utilized for your success.
All right, I'm a trademark attorney,
copyright attorney, patent attorney,
trade secret attorney, litigator, prosecutor,
global IP portfolio manager, mentor.
Like I do every area of law.
It usually takes multiple attorneys to do what I do.
So if you try to get the knowledge
of what you get within one audit with me,
it will probably take you two or three other attorneys
to be able to do that.
And I'm not bragging.
Like people that know what I do
will tell you that's the case.
And people who have done the audit
will tell you that's the case.
So that's why I take this very seriously.
I want to see you succeed.
You've invested a lot of time and a lot of money
in your own ideas.
And what I don't need is for you guys
to start pursuing something
and find out a year and a half down the road
that where you're pursuing, you weren't allowed to pursue.
Now you've got to start over or pay money to a lawyer
to fix a nasty mistake that we could have resolved
from day one so that you start your company
and take off right from the start.
And so that's why I'm doing this.
And just so you guys have seen,
I gave you the actual cost of what we charge
our own clients.
Our own clients pay $15,000 for one audit, all right?
And that's not including all the other stuff.
With this package, there's some...
Ray, there's something that...
Actually, we'll talk separate.
I don't want Ray to bark at me right now.
There's other stuff.
There's other stuff that is included.
You guys are gonna get all this stuff.
We're giving you all.
But the audit is there.
You've got the trademark search is there.
The trademark application is there.
A one year, one year, a full year within the network
where you can ask direct questions
and get answers for a full year.
That means as you're implementing
what you learned from the IP audit,
you can come in and say,
hey, Peter, remember how we said
we should use this name instead of that?
I've been using it.
I'm running into this problem.
What do you think?
We can talk about it and you don't pay anything extra.
It's all included.
It is a ridiculous deal.
This is what my clients would take, honestly,
if I offered it to my clients.
All right, I will see you guys in a minute.
All right, bye.