Natalie's smiling like, oh, I'm on camera. Hi. So hey, everybody, welcome to Day 2's VIP. I just
wanted to welcome everybody to this. Everybody's getting into the room. We're going right to
questions and answers. And Natalie, go right ahead. Yeah. Thank you. I was curious if we
file for U.S. trademarks and copyrights and that sort of thing to try to protect our work
internationally if we're doing, for example, online business or adding online business material
that's creative. How do we protect that internationally? Would that be something?
That's a great question. Yeah. All right. So this is what I was talking about. There are certain
people who are here that are actually doing this already. And so this is a really good example of
this. So if you file a trademark application in the United States and you know that you're going
to be using a trademark, let's say, in Canada and you're going to be using the trademark in,
let's say, Europe, like you're going into Germany, you're selling there and you're
selling into Australia. Within six months of filing your application in the United States,
you can file a foreign application. You can file one application that includes many different
countries that are a part of that application. OK, but it has to be done within six months.
OK, so this is it's a CTM application. So what it does is it includes multiple different countries
that are part of this of this one filing. And then you designate all these countries in the filing.
And now once that case gets examined by each of the different the different offices, if it gets
rejected, then you're going to need an exam. You're going to need an attorney in that country
to proceed with examination in that country. And so the beauty of it is since you're jumping into
the the offer, you're going to have attorneys assigned to you. So you don't have to worry
about having to figure out, well, I'm doing work in, let's say, I'm doing work in Australia.
Like I can send you to PISIs, like PISIs is an Australian law firm. You know, I'm doing work in
India. OK, well, I could send you to Chattanooga. Right. So there's different firms in each
geographical region. So you file in the U.S. within six months. You do your foreign filing
so you can maintain that original filing date. And then once that examination takes place,
you go, oh, my gosh, I got rejected in Russia. Got it. So Gorvinsky, I can call them up and say,
hey, Jessica, I've got a client over here. They got an issue. Can you talk with them? They say,
yes. Boom, you're all set. So they'll work with you individually. So that's all included. So you
won't have to worry about any of that stuff. But basically within six months of your original
filing, that's when you would do your foreign filing. Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out
because if you have information online, you know, anybody in the world could access that,
including A.I. So I don't know how to protect that. Yeah. With regard to you, you mean with
regard to another person taking the trademark that you already filed and using it in another
country? Right. Yeah. So here's the beauty of it is if you file in the United States
and you don't have to wait the full six months, like you can file beforehand, you can file
in the United States and then within 30 days, foreign file. Right. And just to be clear, like
what what Natalie is talking about is not theoretical. Like it actually happens. There's
people in and this happens in China a lot. What happens is that somebody falls in the United
States and somebody in China falls for the exact same application, because in China you don't have
to actually prove use. You can just file it and then designate all of the international class.
And so in during that pendency, you know, now you get somebody basically blackmailing you. So what
I essentially told people is if you're really interested in foreign filing, you file in the
United States. Just let me know if you're going to go into foreign filing right away.
It's a form. It's not that difficult. Like my paralegals put it together. It's not not saying
my paralegals aren't smart. They're incredibly smart, but it's not that complex. And so they
designate all the countries, they list all the goods and services, and then they do this foreign
filing. And so now you're on a holding period for the examination to take place by the individual
offices. If it's rejected, the beauty of it is if it's not rejected, it just goes right through.
You never need an agent in any foreign country that way if it's never rejected. But if it is
rejected, now you need an agent in, let's say, India or China or, you know, Botswana. You know,
it can be anywhere. And so we have agents all over the world that you can use.
It sounds like if I understand correctly, the U.S. helps us do that.
by, I guess, distributing that information
and asking for approval from all those different countries?
Yeah, so if you file in the U.S.,
and let's say within 30 days you do that foreign filing,
that foreign filing covers all countries, right?
So you designate all the countries.
So the second that you file that,
that's your priority date in all the foreign countries.
So nobody else can file.
Remember, foreign countries are a first-to-file system,
and even in the United States, it's a first-to-file system.
So if you file in the United States
and you file within 30 days your foreign filing,
nobody's gonna know about it.
It's just, the chances are extremely slim.
And in 25 years, I've never had a single case happen
where somebody within 30 days filed in a foreign country.
It's just never happened.
So what I would do, though, is file U.S.,
file that, that CTM application,
and then designate all the countries that you want.
And then when that application has been examined,
if there's no rejections,
it'll go right through to registration.
If there is a rejection at that point,
like I have one client who filed in 12 different countries,
I think 11 or 12 different countries,
and he sells wallets, right?
And so, but he also sells like key chains
and all those other things.
And so it was allowed in nine of the countries, right?
Three of them were rejected.
So now we had to get an agent in Russia,
agent in Germany, and agent in,
there was one more, Australia.
So three different countries.
So all I did was email my agents,
say, hey, got this situation here.
It looks like a simple situation.
I think we just have to modify the registration of services.
I mean, I'm sorry, the registration of goods.
And they said, oh yeah, that's really simple.
Yep, I'll take care of it.
Done.
500 bucks, they were done.
It was so simple, you know?
So that's the way I would do it.
I wouldn't file and wait a really long time
if you're concerned that somebody
is gonna grab your trademark.
I just file within 30 days.
You can swear back to the priority date
of the original application anyway.
And that's the beauty of it.
As long as you file within those six months,
you get to rely upon the filing date of the US.
So when you foreign file,
the filing date for the foreign case
is the filing date of the US.
Because it's connected.
It's in the family.
So as long as you file within six months,
you enjoy the priority date of the US filing
in the foreign country.
That's the beauty of foreign filing.
If you don't do it within six months,
that's when it's unfortunate.
And I've seen that happen.
It's rare, but I've seen it happen
where somebody does exactly what you're saying.
They come in, they see the company,
they get the trademark,
and then they want five grand.
Like, oh yeah, very happy to give it to you.
$5,000 please.
And there's just no way around that.
Like they know they can blackmail you
because you can't stop them.
And so, yeah.
But clearly you're smart enough to know the issue already.
So that's the route I would go.
It's fairly inexpensive.
It's not a very expensive process.
Trademarks are pretty inexpensive, yeah.
All right, so-
Our protection portal members are going to love Natalie.
Well, Natalie understands this stuff.
I mean, the fact that she's talking about this stuff
the way she is, she understands it,
which just makes it more valuable for her,
which is good,
because she'll know how to take advantage of it.
There's a number of people that jump in that don't know.
It's kind of like, you know,
all of a sudden you own a car
that has a ton of different features.
And you're like, I know how to drive,
go forward and back and park.
It's like, yeah, but it does like 4,000 things.
It's like, yeah, but I don't understand that.
But if you understand the car, you could have a lot of fun.
So yeah, you'll be able to do a lot of things.
All right, so let me do this.
The thing that I promised to do for everybody here
is to show all of you
an actual live trademark application filing.
And so I want to walk through that with all of you
so you understand all of the parts piece by piece
that are involved in a trademark application.
And during this process, you can ask any questions.
So as I start to show you what you're adding
into the application,
please like feel free to ask any questions.
Stop me, you know, you're not interrupting me.
This is your time.
Like, that's why I did this.
This is to help you guys.
Let me just type one more thing here.
Let me open this here, hold on.
Okay, all right, let me go into the USPTO site.
Yeah, if you want to get a lot of traffic,
I'm sure you guys already know this,
but if you ever want to get a lot of traffic,
you take a really famous domain name
and you change like one letter,
like the last letter associated with it,
you get a ton of traffic.
It's like, it's not the best thing to do,
but I can tell you like,
I can't tell you how many times I've typed in
instead of USPTO.gov,
I've typed in like USPTP or something like that
and .gov or whatever.
And so imagine if you were the person
that had that one misspelling,
how many millions of people that go to your site?
So let me share the USPTO website with you guys now.
And we'll jump into how to do this.
There we go.
Okay, all right, like I said, as we're going along,
just let me know if you have any questions
and I'll be happy to answer them.
All right.
This is the main site.
Can everybody see the USPTO site?
Okay, great.
All right, so you click on trademarks,
you go under, actually, your best way to do it
is when you're on the main site,
you click on My USPTO,
that's the best way to actually do this stuff
and then log in with your own government account.
You guys actually probably don't have one, I do.
So I'm gonna log in to my government account
and then I'm gonna click on file an application,
file a tease application.
What a tease application is, is an online filing.
They're gonna send me a code.
I'm gonna stop sharing,
so you can't see my law firm website
or my law firm email
with clients.
All right, there's my link.
366-548, 366-548.
Now I just type in here, 366-548, verify.
Okay, now I'm in.
So this is what the site looks like.
Let me share my screen again.
And there you go.
Okay, this is the United States Patent and Trademark Office
website for applications, all right?
This is what the page looks like.
So it's principal register right here,
filing an application on the principal register.
As I scroll down, you see Tease Plus and Tease Standard.
Tease Plus is less expensive.
You see it's $250 per class.
The other one is $350 per class.
The reason why is because Tease Plus is using
the description of the goods or services
that the USPTO provides versus your own,
like your own created description.
And so since you're using the USPTO's own description,
they're not gonna reject their own description.
So it's taking less time on behalf
of the examiner to examine.
So because of that, all you do is,
what I typically suggest to people is to use the Tease Plus.
But if you can't find the words that,
as I'm gonna walk you through this,
if you can't find the words that are related
to for your application, then I would just choose standard.
That means you can just type in your own words.
I'll explain that in a second.
Is an attorney filing this application?
Okay, this is actually a really funny feature here
because I technically am an attorney.
So when I filed a trademark application for myself,
I actually selected that an attorney was filing it.
But then when I listed myself as the applicant,
they rejected my application saying that,
you can't be the attorney and be the applicant.
And I said, but I am an attorney and I am the applicant.
And they said, yeah, it's an issue with the software.
So you have to actually say, no, attorney's not filing it.
And then you click continue.
All right, now we start to get into the fun.
The owner of the mark.
Now, what's an owner of a mark?
If you're gonna have it,
let's say Natalie's filing an application in her own name,
then she could file just Natalie Green.
But let's say Natalie's filing it in the name of like,
Trenton Corporation.
Then she would come in here,
she would type in Trenton Corporation.
Whoever is going to own the trademark,
that's who you list, okay?
Not just the one who's filing it,
like whoever is going to own it.
That's who you want to list.
This is extremely important because
if you want the asset to belong to a corporation.
so that you have a write-off for that corporation, then you want to list the corporation here.
Then you can take the USPTO filing and just write it off as a business expense,
as a corporate expense, right? There are individuals that have formed corporations
in their own name, so yeah, they can obviously in that case list their own names here, but
I typically tell people to list a corporation. So that's one of my entities, A to E Challenges,
it's one of the entities, that's my educational institution. So then when you come down here
under entity type, you just figure out which one of these your entity type falls into. So if it's
like an S-Corp, that's corporation, in my case it's an LLC. When you click on LLC, look at what
happens. Right down here, it asks you what's the state of incorporation. So now for me,
I incorporated in New Hampshire intentionally. So I put it in New Hampshire, now I've got the
state of incorporation. So I've got my company, the state of incorporation, then I come down here
and ask for the address. So now I'm just filling out the address here, right? But here's the
interesting thing is, you got to make sure it falls under where the star, the asterisk is.
So if you have in your buffer or in your cache an address, when you right-click and paste it,
it's going to put the address up top in the internal address area and you're going to get
a rejection. So you got to cut it from there and then paste it under a mailing address.
And now, so this is the address of the entity, okay? So if you're listing a corporation here,
this is the address of the corporation. If you're listing an individual, it's the address
of the individual. All right, so now I'm listing the address. I select the states, New Hampshire,
then I come over here, United States, and then zip code. Let's say that's it.
And then phone number, if you list the phone number, the good part about listing a phone
number is that if your attorney wants to list a phone number, I would let them list their phone
number, not your phone number. The reason why is because people will call the number that's
listed on here. And if you don't want spam phone calls, it's probably a bad idea to list your
personal phone number, okay? Unless you have like another number that you can use. Always list your
email address, like always list your email address. So in this case, I've got a phone number that I
randomly created. I put that in there. I've got an email address that I created. And then there's
no website address. But if I have a website address for my company, I might list it down there.
And then I click Continue. So far, everything works. Now, let's let's assume that like I did
something wrong. Let's say I got rid of this city's gone. And I click Continue. Watch what
happens. Oh, rejection. See tells you it's rejected, something's wrong. You have to go back
and then come over here and put in the city. We need sound effects like
I know. Continue there. Hold it. Oh, detecting multiple windows. No, I don't have to worry about
that. I'm going to go back to the beginning. To make this faster, just to catch up to where I was.
One other mark, Limited Liability Company, New Hampshire,
internal address, cut and paste.
New Hampshire.
Zip. Email address. Okay, done. Continue. All right. Now we get to the interesting stuff. This
is where you type in the the this is where the your firm will actually enter in the trademark
itself. So let's say it's like flex here, right? Let's hit ask the trademark. That's where you type
it. That's all. Very simple. And if you want to preview it, you can just click the preview button.
And that's what it actually looks like flex here. Okay, very simple. Now clean. Now your lawyers
will know whether or not you need an additional statement. You guys don't need to understand that
for working with an attorney. They'll ask you a bunch of questions to see if there's some extra
stuff that's needed. If you instead of following a word mark, if instead, it's a logo, then this
is going to be a design, that button there. And so for that, in that case, a file with the image
will be selected. So now
You go into like, let's say images, pictures.
Here we go, pictures.
Then I grab one of the pictures.
Boom.
I attach it.
Your image count, which is outside.
Okay, so if you attach a logo,
it needs to actually fall within the size
of what's allowed here,
which is no less than 300 dots per inch,
no more than 350 dots per inch.
That's what the lawyers will actually do.
They'll change the format of the file
to make sure it fits, all right?
So then for the image itself,
if there's color that you're going for in the image,
you gotta describe the colors there.
But what I tell people in general is
when I file trademark applications for logos,
I like to file them in black and white
because then they cover all sorts of colors,
not just one color.
And then separate from that,
you have to describe the logo.
So if it was like an eagle with a face next to it,
then I would say a prominently displayed eagle
where a face is facing the same direction,
the nose of the eagle or the beak of the eagle
aligning with the nose of the face.
And I would break down exactly a description
of the logo itself.
But I'm going to take the simple example.
Let's go back.
This is the problem with their go back system, the USPTO.
This is why you want to do it right the first time
because every time you got to go back,
it ends up having a hiccup.
So let me go back here, do it again, continue.
Since I do this so much, it's so fast.
I do it really fast.
Oh, see.
Their go back button should work better,
but it just runs into problems all the time.
But that's not for you.
You guys don't have to worry about that.
That's what your lawyers will have to deal with.
All right, United States.
New Hampshire.
There we go.
Email.
Okay, continue.
To mailing address.
See, the exact thing I told you was going to happen.
You got to paste it under mailing address.
There it goes.
All right, continue.
Okay, so we're going to just do a word mark.
So we'll just use Flexier as the word mark.
We click continue.
And now we have to select the goods or services for that.
So let's say that Flexier is being used
for athletic wear, right?
So then all I do is I click add goods and services.
And now I look for like athletic wear.
Oops, where?
Athletic wear.
Go.
When I click go.
How come nothing's coming in?
Nothing's coming up.
Is something misspelled?
No, that's not.
That's right.
Oh, let's say, so athletic wear didn't come up.
So let's say sneakers.
Let's say foot, footwear.
It is misspelled.
It's W-E-A-R, right?
Yeah.
There it goes.
Okay, footwear.
All right, so now I've got footwear.
And let's say I'm going to use it for athletic footwear,
waterproof footwear.
Let's say footwear for men.
You just basically look down the list
to find the ones that align.
Now, obviously the law firm will know
which ones align a lot faster,
but there's basically part of the process
is figuring out which things here pertain
to the footwear.
So footwear, so let's say that's what we have.
All I do now is say insert, checks, entries, done.
See that?
All of them populated.
Now I have to specify if I'm actually using it already
or not.
Remember how I told you about an intent
to use trademark application?
Let's say you're not using it yet.
You can just select 1B.
That's what the 1B is here.
That's an intent to use application.
So now they're going to ask that you confirm
that you understand that this is a 1B.
That means at some point,
you're going to have to file a petition
to change it to an actual use
or an affidavit to change it to.
to alleged use.
So they're gonna force you to click this box here,
which the law firms will know about.
And then you click assign flying bases.
Boom, all of them say 1B now.
See that?
Every one of them says 1B.
Now let's say that we're not,
like we've already used footwear for men.
Let's say these two here.
It was already done for men,
but these two here, athletic footwear and waterproof.
Actually, let's say waterproof footwear
has not been created yet, but these three have.
So then what we do is we select section 1A.
So now what we're gonna do is we have to change this.
So if I go back, let's see if it'll work if I go back.
Oh, it did work.
Yay.
Continue.
So what I'm gonna do in this case is unselect.
Let's select this one, this one, and this one.
Let's see.
I'm gonna remove these
because they're listed as section 1B already.
If you start doing this and you have to change it,
you have to remove the check goods and services.
Yes, now you have the one that was there before,
and we're gonna add new ones.
And so now we just select the ones
that are not selected before, this one, this one.
Let's say those two we're gonna add.
Insert those two.
Now there's, hold on a second.
Go back, go back, go back, go back.
There we go, okay.
All right, so I wanna add one more.
Let me just add one more.
Waterproof footwear.
All right, those are the three that I'm adding.
I go insert the checked entries.
Now I have to assign the following basis.
If I am not using it yet for this one here,
I click on that one, I select 1B.
And now it assigns the following basis for 1B.
That's done.
But these two over here I am using already,
so I select 1A for those.
And now what it's asking me for is the actual specimen,
the example demonstrating use of the trademark.
This is where the attachment is added.
So you add the specimen there,
you describe the specimen,
you list the date of first use of that trademark anywhere,
and then the date of first use in interstate commerce,
which means first sale across state lines.
So you list all that.
And so if I go, let me just add dates randomly.
That, and then I'm just gonna do,
just gonna write this stuff.
Don't use that for a description.
I'm just gonna write this stuff.
And then attach, choose a file,
picture of myself, attach it.
Return to form.
Okay.
All right, so I've got the specimen attached.
Your lawyers will actually know
what type of specimen is necessary.
I've got the dates of first use, ever,
and then date of first use in interstate commerce.
And then I assign the following basis for those two there
as 1A now.
Now it shows that you'll see 1A, 1A, and 1B.
So now I have,
that shows that it's been used for footwear already,
and I have a date of first use.
It's been used for athletic footwear already.
I have a date of first use,
but I haven't created any waterproof footwear yet.
So that's why it's an intent to use.
So you can have one application
that includes actual use and intent to use stuff
all in one application.
That's why I'm showing you this,
is that you can customize the application.
So let's say that you're already using it
for three different things,
but you're not using it for two other things.
Make sure you tell your attorneys,
hey, I'm using it for these three things.
I'm not using it for those two things.
I want to file an intent to use
for the ones I'm not using yet,
and an actual use for the other ones that I am using.
And then you just click continue.
And boom, now it just asks you
for an email address to communicate with.
There's one there.
You put a secondary one there,
and you click continue.
And there's your cost.
That's it.
Because it was in one international class, in class 25,
it's $250.
And then you sign it directly.
You can read all this stuff.
Basically, you check all the boxes, you sign it,
and then you click validate,
and then it goes, and then you actually pay for it,
and it goes through as an application.
So just to go back real quick,
I just want to go back to see if there's any questions
as I'm going through this.
Okay, first part.
Is there any questions on the owner part?
Is that understood?
Yeah?
Okay, great.
All right, so that's where you put your owner.
That's where, if it's a corporation,
you specify the type, the address of the corporation,
the email address to be communicating with, right?
Then your next part here, if it's a wordmark,
that's where the wordmark goes there.
For the logo, you click on this special form there.
That's what the lawyers will do.
Then you connect your logo to it itself.
But since it's a wordmark, you just click continue.
Let's say you're using it for other stuff.
You can come over here and add more stuff.
Let's say instead of footwear, we're doing,
let's say we're using it for tents.
Tents, let's look at tents.
All right, there you go.
Class CL-22 came up right away.
Done.
See how simple this is?
Like, it's not really difficult.
But the thing that you have to keep in mind
is that there are different things.
Like, there's tents for camping, tents made of fabric.
There's tents not for camping.
Like, there's all sorts of different things here
that you could specify.
But let's say that you have the pegs for the tent,
and they're made of metal,
and you're selling the pegs in a box.
Then what you do is you click on this as well.
And now when you come over here
and say insert the checked entries,
now those have come up too.
All of this is the new stuff that you added.
But you see how now I've added two new international classes,
class 6 and 22?
Well, watch what happens.
So now I'm going to turn these off here
because those already have a filing basis.
I'm going to grab these over here.
I'm just going to say they're all intent to use
just to get things rolling.
Watch what happens when I do this.
Assign the filing basis.
Everything has something assigned to it right there.
And when I click continue, watch what happens.
Continue.
Look at the cost.
See the cost difference?
It's because now there's three classes.
There's class 6, 22, and 25.
So now it's $750 because it's $250 per class.
Okay.
And then all I do again is I check the boxes,
sign, and then validate.
And then afterwards I pay.
All right.
Those are all the parts of a trademark application.
I wanted to show you this because there's this huge mystery
when people deal with lawyers.
They just, they don't, like they're lost.
Now you know what they actually do in an application.
So if you know that, you know,
beforehand you can get them the right specimen.
You can answer the right, you know,
you can actually ask them, do you need this?
Do you need that?
Or here's my state of incorporation.
Here's this, here's, like,
when people work with us, with our law firm,
I give them a trademark application form.
All you do is fill it out.
Like you fill it out right from the start.
And then we do all the work on the backend.
So the beauty of it is that we've made it so simple,
like so ridiculously simple
for people to get the information to us.
What lawyers typically do is they have these long meetings
going back and forth, asking lots of questions.
And it can be annoying for the client.
So I list it all on the form.
I explain it very clearly.
People that have been through a training,
they just go through it and they're like,
oh, this, this, this, this, here's that, this, this.
And we figure out the international class.
We figure out what your description, how it should look.
We prepare the application and file it, done.
And all that, all that process, getting you the form,
having the meeting to discuss what needs to be in there,
getting the application together, filing it,
the USPTO filing fee, a quick search beforehand,
all that is included in the package.
All that's included.
Now, if you file in three international classes,
then you're going to have to pay more
for the two extra international classes, right?
So, and I believe the way we have that set up
is it's like $200 RFI per additional class,
but that's including like extra specimens,
extra dates of first use, extra information being entered.
Like we do a lot of stuff just to get that all together.
And then there's one flat fee, done.
Okay.
Any question on that, that application, the parts of it?
Okay, wonderful.
Let me open it up to any other questions
before I go on to the next topic I want to touch base on.
Let's see if anybody has any questions.
So I just had a question.
I noticed you had logos and text separate, right?
So if you had like the Nike logo,
you would have to have two separate,
complete separate filings, right?
One for the text.
X and one for the logo?
Great question.
Yeah, that's a really good question, Jay.
So yes, there would be one application for the logo
and then one application for the wordmark.
Now, the way I would do something like that
is I would file them separately, personally.
I would file one application for the logo
and then file a separate application for the wordmark
because you can't have a logo and a wordmark
in one application.
They have to be two separate applications.
So if it's like Nike Swoosh, Nike Just Do It,
it's actually three applications in there.
The Swoosh is protectable, Nike is protectable,
and Just Do It is protectable, each one of those.
And so I would file each one separate.
And the reason why I would do that
is that if anybody ever used Nike alone,
trademark infringement.
If they ever used the Swoosh alone,
trademark infringement, right?
If they ever used the Just Do It, trademark infringement.
So now you're locking down your brand.
What people don't realize is that a brand is,
it's not just like a trademark.
It includes a lot of different things in a single brand.
In your brand, it can include like your name, your logo,
that most certainly can be part of your brand,
but it also includes things like your graphics
or your images that are used.
If there's certain images that you tend to use a lot,
you can become very well known for those kinds of images.
Also the color scheme that's used.
So if you look at our funnel, our funnel uses,
let me see if I could share my funnel real fast.
There we go.
What colors does it use, Peter?
Our funnel, hold on a second, share funnel.
There, okay.
So this funnel here,
see how it has like the blue with the orange,
that tends to be the look that we use.
The blue with the orange on the whole site.
Again, blue with the orange, blue with the orange.
The style of providing these boxes with the days,
things like that,
that can all be associated with what's called trade dress.
So you can actually own that as well.
But your brand will include like your colors.
It includes your logo or include the name.
It can also include things like your fonts that are used.
It can include like a slogan.
It can include like certain sounds that are used.
And then like a certain tone that you use.
All those things are included in your brand.
So your question was a really good one, Jay,
with regard to like a logo.
Like do you file for the picture
and then the word mark separate?
The answer is yes.
If, and it's only if, you're using the words separate.
If you're not using the word separate,
you can't really file for the word mark alone
because well, you could,
you might run into a battle though,
because if the only time that you use the word
is within the logo,
your specimen is gonna be the logo itself.
The USPTO should allow that,
but they could reject it saying that your application
is a logo, not a word mark.
I've seen that before.
You can win that argument,
but in general, if there's words in your logo,
file for them separately.
And you should be using your trade,
for your trademarks,
you should be using that word alone anyway.
It's just gonna make that way more valuable
to you and your company.
Cause it'll keep people away from what you're doing.
And that's, what's really important is
you're segmenting your markets
and you're saying, stay away from my territory.
This is mine.
And so they, you know,
that allows you to take up more for,
for what do you call it?
For sales and for taking more,
like I said, territory and in a specific marketplace.
So let me, did that help Jay?
Yeah, that was perfect.
Thank you.
Awesome. You're welcome.
All right, Natalie, let me go to you.
Let's see now, I've almost forgot my question.
So for the specimen,
if it's like a, for example,
like online courses,
would that be a screenshot or something of?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So let me show you an example of what,
this is something we actually went through.
A number of people asked this exact question
in the protection portal.
So I'll show you exactly what I showed them.
Let me share my screen.
Share screen.
There we go.
All right, so let's say I went through my,
let's say that the protector idea challenge
is actually protected, right?
So,
When I look at, let's say,
see right here, Protect Your Idea Challenge,
TM, see that right there?
That's use of the trademark on the site.
What it covers is the providing of in-person and virtual
educational services focused on protection of new creations.
When I go down here,
you'll see it's a five-day challenge.
This is what I'm training on every day.
There it is. See that?
Then right here, yes, Save My Spot.
It's telling you where to purchase it.
That's the Save My Spot.
It even goes in and tells you what are the parts.
There's a registration, there's a Facebook group.
These are the actions used at Protect Your Idea.
Then separately, there's the cost.
Yes, the Save My Spot.
This is giving you all the data,
not only about the challenge,
but it's giving you all the data that is
listed under the recitation of
services for a trademark application.
Since it's on the site,
I can actually just do this,
right-click, print, and then wait until the preview is done.
I wonder why things are slower today.
There we go. This whole site right here, see this?
I can take this right here,
I can save it as a PDF,
and I can submit this as a specimen.
Because it's showing the services listed.
These are the services right there.
Introduction to this,
it's giving you the cost.
There's a place to buy the purchase.
All of this is listed there.
I can actually just right-click,
print that, and send it out with no problem.
That can actually be a specimen.
Now, here's the interesting thing, Natalie.
One thing I would say be really careful about is,
what I find a lot of people do is they
use their trademark in a descriptive sense on their websites.
As an example, somebody calls their people like idea protectors,
and then they try to file for
idea protector in International Class 41,
which is for online training, educational courses.
But then when you read the website,
it says, allow us to train you to become an idea protector.
That's using it in a descriptive sense.
You're seeing what the people are.
That is the worst specimen you can send in,
because that's exactly what the examiner is looking for.
The examiner is looking going,
all right, let me read this thing.
There it is, idea protector trying to own.
They're saying, let us allow you to become an idea protector.
That means idea protector is a description of a person.
Boom, they reject you with
a merely descriptive trademark application, rejection.
Using your own information against you.
It's the worst scenario.
It's like the best way to win a case in
litigation is get the other party to say
something and then use
their own testimony against them in the court.
It's the best way, and that's why
you have what's called depositions.
Where were you on this date?
What did you do on this date?
Did you see this? Did you know this person?
Did you meet them ever before?
Blah, blah, blah. You've got all the answers.
Now, when you're in front of the jury,
is this your testimony?
Is this what you said? You said this,
this, this, and this, therefore that.
Thank you. Bye.
That's exactly what the examiner seeks to do.
Just be careful on your specimen that there is
no example of the trademark application
itself being used or
the words being used for the trademark
in a descriptive sense.
Don't do that.
Just be really careful with that.
All right. Let me go to Joyce, Joyce.
There you go.
Hello, my friend. Can you hear me?
I clicked it at the same time,
so you unmuted me.
Anyway, I have to ask,
this could just be old wives' tale,
but somebody, I don't remember who,
said if you put your,
like my artwork on Facebook,
I lose the ability to trademark or copyright it.
Is that true?
No, that's not true.
Start interrupting. It's really hard to hear her too,
because it's like echoing in a weird way.
Yeah. So what, what,
Joyce just asked was, if you put something on Facebook, if you put your own artwork on Facebook,
does it prevent you from obtaining rights under trademark law or copyright law? And that's not
the case. You most certainly can still file for the things. The problem with Facebook is that
what most people did not do is read the terms and conditions of Facebook when they signed up for it.
And in there, you gave Facebook a non-exclusive license to whatever you publish on their site.
So that means that they can take your content and use it, right? They can use it for many
different purposes. I mean, this is why, you know, when it comes to your birthday,
all of a sudden you get this like happy birthday from Facebook and it's showing you 10 images
and like videos of yourself with other people, pictures of you with other people,
things that you typed in. I mean, it's giving you your own stuff back to you because they have a
legal right to do that because you signed up for their platform and you gave them a non-exclusive
right to do that. So you just got to be careful. What I tell people in general, if you're an artist,
what I tend to tell people who are artists is try not to put anything that's at a high resolution
onto the website, onto Facebook, right? Because what people can do is right-click it,
go and take it somewhere else, get it, like explode it, make it bigger, and then print it,
right? And so all of a sudden, all of your artistic work, this happened to Lynn Lanesky,
which is horrible. People love her work. She was at a convention. People took pictures of it.
And then they took the pictures that they saw online, they brought it to the corner store,
turned into a large print, and now they have it on their walls. And Lynn never got a penny out of it,
like not a single penny of it. She actually went to a doctor's office and saw a print
that she created in the doctor's office and the doctor didn't realize it was her work.
And she said, oh, wow, that's a really nice piece. Where did you get that piece? And they said,
oh, well, we saw it online. We went to such and such store, had it, you know, made into a large
print and put it on the wall. That's copyright infringement. And so she had to tell her own
doctor, well, actually, I'm the artist. That's my work. You can either pay me $150 for the print,
or take it down one or two. And they paid her $150. But the point of this whole thing is that
as artists, you have to be careful. Now, it used to be that you can take
your image and put a watermark on it. There's AI software now that will automatically
remove watermarks. Like it's gotten so good. So what I tell people to do is use a low resolution
with a watermark. Don't do high resolution with a watermark because when you use high resolution
with a watermark, they can remove the watermark and now they have a high resolution image that
they can create new prints from. But if you use a low resolution with the watermark embedded
into the low resolution image, not as a separate frame, but part of the same frame,
then when they pull that extra data out, or that extra data is actually the name for
the pixel information, right? When they pull that data out, there's going to be such low
resolution there, they're not going to be able to create a new image. But just so we're clear,
AI has gotten so smart that it can look at the rest of the image and reproduce what that section
should look like. The technology is so advanced right now. And a lot of people in the public are
not seeing this. I'm seeing this and like I have a separate network called ALUN, the AI
Legal Update Network, right? And so I talk about this stuff there. But in the protection portal,
I cover this as well. We walk through these different programs and what do you do?
What do you do if your livelihood is associated with creating a new image for people to see?
What do you do? This is why artists are panicking right now. You have to learn
what are the resources that are available. You can do things like you can use what's called glazing.
If you're an artist, you can use glazing before you actually use any site.
You're going to drop the link for that, right? Thank you. And so what glazing is, is it's something
that you implement on top of your image before you use it on a site so that they can't actually
take your image and embed it into the site. It's pretty cool. It was created a number, it was
created basically this past year not yeah earlier this this past year um it was created it's still
being refined that's one thing there's also filters that you can use uh whenever you're
you know using your your stuff online but what i tell people in general again is
low dpi small pixels like small image so nobody can blow it up you try to blow it up the data is
so corrupt it's so bad nobody's gonna want it that's why i tell artists to do give them a taste
right you get to see it if you like it you'll buy the bigger print but don't give them high
res images second they see the high res images they don't need you anymore that's it technology
is too advanced yeah so hopefully it helps you out joyce yeah you're welcome you're very welcome
all right let me see if anybody else has any questions today and if not then we will close
and then ray yeah um just to kind of piggyback or coattail on one of the last things you said
was that you know about artists panicking it's not just our um it's our artists but it's also
on the other side of that our our entrepreneurs and our creators because of um third parties that
they're hiring using those types of image sourcing and they don't know so that's another reason um
why our members are going so thoroughly in our protection portal about that topic and the cool
part about it was peter had them ahead of the game what was it maybe seven eight months ago
already and there are corporations and even law firms that weren't even privy to getting that far
ahead and our members were already like leading edge there and protected and they knew exactly
what to do yeah so just so you guys know what ray's actually talking about is that it was about
nine months ago nine ten months ago i did a prediction when ai software was just starting
to get known like chad tpt i did a prediction i said there's going to be three series of major
issues i know jay heard this before because he was in the training that i did on this
but there are three major issues that are going to happen number one people are going to find out
that the information they're putting into artificial intelligence software actually becomes public
domain when they find that out when they've been using ai software for personal information for
health care information for client information they're going to be in shock and they're going
to try to stop that from happening but it's going to be too late i said the second thing that's
going to happen is there's going to be lawsuits against the owners of the software companies
right they're all they're going to get sued and the reason why they're going to get sued is because
they scraped data and they didn't have permission to have access to that stuff and the scraping of
data um they so as an example open in open ai and creating chat tpt scraped the internet and grabbed
all the images like all the data that existed prior to 2021 so all the way through 2021 all
became available on chat tpt right well that includes people's books their blogs like their
personal information it is accessible through chat gpt all right so that's why there's a large
number of lawsuits right now going up against open ai by many people like many i don't mean like one
or two i mean tons of people are super open suing open ai because they they took the data of other
people without legal rights so they violated their copyrights and then the third phase i said was
going to happen is lawsuits against people directly so people that are using the results
of the software that don't understand what you can do and can't do like if i go into mid journey and
i say give me um i'm doing a new marketing campaign for pampers give me a a year old
girl on a you know with a really cute dress she's wearing pampers um and she's on the beach and
there's a pumpy sitting next to her a palm tree in the background really pretty sunset and this
is just to make people you know like pampers right well joyce has a daughter and like she
goes in the mid journey and she says i'm going to create a christmas card for the family and we're
in hawaii this year and so she takes her daughter and she puts her on the beach and she takes a
picture of her and adorable picture and so she takes that picture and she upslows it into mid
journey and makes it into a christmas card well that picture of her is now available to the world
so now pampers goes in and says i want a one-year-old little girl you know on the
beach blah blah blah the picture of her daughter pops up like with a puppy on the beach with a
palm tree with the sunset and now pampers goes out and does an ad campaign with her daughter
on their on their marketing campaign people like what like
Yeah, that's what happens because what you're entering
becomes part of their database.
And that's what they use to give you a result.
So how do you use these tools and not run into problems?
And that's what we've been talking about
in some respect in the protection portal as well.
That's what Ray was talking about.
But we talked about this nine months ago.
This is before all these lawsuits were filed.
This was before anybody knew about copyright
and trademark infringement issues.
So to people that are within our network,
praise God, we're way ahead of the ball game.
They already were talking to their marketing teams
and saying, hey, you're within the company.
I know you like Mid Journey because I've seen it on your,
I've seen Discord on your PC.
You cannot use that for our personal information
for our clients because whatever you're uploading there
to create your image now becomes available to third parties
even if you use it in stealth mode.
Like we talked about this like nine months ago
and now all of a sudden all the lawsuits are being filed.
But fortunately nobody in our network is having problems
that they knew about this already.
So, which is, I'm very grateful for that.
I'm really saddened that people are going
through lawsuits obviously,
but I'm glad that it's nobody that we know.
So Natalie, go right ahead.
So, and I had another question about trademarks
in terms of things to trademark.
So it sounds like you need one for the word mark,
the business name in other words, right?
One for the logo, one for maybe a slogan
and then maybe the name of a major concept
would be another one.
Is that right?
I would say like a major product or service.
Like, so it's a, it's gotta be,
there's gotta be actual application or usage, right?
In interstate commerce.
So just do it is actually a slogan that's being used
on t-shirts, on packaging, on like backpacks.
It's used on a number of different things.
Just do it, like shorts, right?
Pants, all those things have just do it on it.
So they own just do it for sports apparel.
But if it's just, it's gotta go past the conceptual area.
Like when it comes to trademarks or copyrights,
IP in general, it's gotta be fixed.
Like it has to actually be on something.
So it has to go past being just an idea
to actually being implemented.
This is one of the reasons why I call this
the Protector Idea Challenge.
It's actually a play on words
because the fact of the matter is you can't own an idea.
You can only own the embodiments of the idea.
So I call it the Protector Idea Challenge
intentionally to get lawyers very upset
because I think it's hilarious.
Like I'll get these calls, you can't protect an idea.
It's like, yeah, I know.
That's why I called it that
because what it does is it makes the public aware
of the fact that you can't own these ideas
because everybody in the public thinks you can own an idea.
It's only the lawyers that are IP lawyers
that know you can't own an idea.
So why not market to people with what they understand
and then explain the truth to them
after you've got them there to guide them?
But lawyers don't think that way.
They're like, it's wrong.
It's like, all right, well, you do your own thing, okay?
Go bill a few hours, go away.
So.
Well, the challenge word is on there
because it sounds like it is a challenge to protect.
It is.
And that's, see, you get it.
That's exactly why the word challenge is there as well.
So it's not only, the structure is not only a challenge,
but it's called a challenge, Protector Idea Challenge.
It's a challenge to be able to protect your ideas.
And that's what we help you understand
how to protect your ideas.
Well, this, what I'm speaking of
is something that's gonna be used as like a framework
for all of the discussions, like an acronym.
So I would assume that would be a good thing to trademark.
Yeah, so if you're going to,
let's talk about acronyms for a second here.
Acronyms.
It's sort of like a, it's an acronym, if that makes sense.
Right, right.
So when you file for an acronym,
the USPTO is gonna ask you what it stands for, okay?
So just be careful when you file for an acronym
that the words that the acronym represents
are not descriptive of the service or the good.
Because sometimes people will take something
that's descriptive
and then take the first letter of everything
and say, oh, it's a new word.
The USPTO is gonna come back and say,
tell me what it means.
And when they ask what it means,
if it's descriptive, they're gonna reject it.
So just make sure that whatever your acronym is,
whatever the words are that's associated with the acronym
are not descriptive of the services
or the goods that they're covering.
Just be careful about that.
I don't think it would be,
it's an acronym to help people think through something,
like different categories of things
for people to think through.
So it wouldn't be describing specifically,
I guess, the trademark or the business name.
It's what I would say is in your case, since you're doing the package anyway, we can talk about this directly.
Yeah, we'll go through it like in details, like you'll be able to it won't be theoretical because you'll actually be a client.
So we can talk about all the stuff in a lot of detail.
But what I would say for you is it's pretty clear that you're involved in multiple things.
Bring it all. Like, don't be bashful.
Ask every single question and I'll walk you through that.
And that let's say you're affiliated with like multiple companies, like multiple things that are going on.
Bring it from all of them. I don't care.
I mean, the way I see this is like I'm trying to be accessible to all of you.
So you guys are successful.
And so I had one person come in with eight companies.
I don't know how a human being can run eight companies.
I have no idea.
You always say eight because you're crediting his genius.
But it was 11. Was it really 11?
It was 11. That's insane.
I don't understand.
How does one human being run 11 companies?
And what's funny is during the meeting, like he he he felt guilty.
He said, I've got another company.
Can I ask you a question? I said, all right, look.
And he asked me that like three times.
All right. I'm not going to say no to anything that you asked me.
So just ask everything.
And when we were done, it was you're right.
It was 11 companies.
I'm running two and I'm tired.
I don't get it. I don't know how he did it.
God bless him. But he does it and he does it well.
And so as you're you'll get a list of like,
what is it like seven or eight things that I listed out?
The preparation checklist has seven categories.
But they have subcategories on there. Right.
So and you don't have to collect them all.
But when you look at it, you'll see this directly relates to me.
This one relates to me. This one relates to me.
That one, not so much.
So get when you get all that stuff together, then when we have that meeting,
we can go through everything and don't be bashful.
This is like it's about you. It's not about me.
It's to make sure that you are doing extremely well and you do well going forward.
And then the nice part is within that, you're in the network for a whole year.
So you can keep bringing questions.
It's like you're already there.
So that's the beauty of it. Yeah. OK, great.
OK, absolutely. Jay, did you have another question?
No, we were very productive in the last session, so that was really good.
OK, wonderful. All right.
Well, with that, I'm going to close for tonight.
Like I said, I always go over.
Sorry, Ray, but I always go over.
And so we'll catch up tomorrow.
Tomorrow we're jumping into to copyrights and we're going to dig deep.
All right. Copyrights is a lot of fun.
It's one of the more fun areas is a lot of practical stuff
that people actually don't realize are covered by copyrights,
meaning that, you know, you're you're doing everyday business
and you don't realize like the music I listen to, the video that I just did,
the blog that I did, the post that I did, the picture that I just took.
Like all of these things are protectable by copyright.
So the big question typically when it comes to copyright is,
do I really want to spend all this money protecting everything?
That's the big question.
And so what exactly should you protect and what don't you want to like?
Don't even bother.
And then there's certain things in copyright that you can do
to protect multiple things at the same time with one filing.
I'll teach you guys about that.
There's shortcuts for doing this where you can take like a hundred pictures
and do it in one filing instead of doing 100 filings.
So I'll walk you guys through all that. OK.
Well, with that, all of you have a wonderful evening.
You've got the link for the foundations and IP.
They're always available for you to ask questions.
Like I said, the people that registered, we already had somebody in there.
But as you register, we'll shoot to the email right away
so that you can schedule time.
But we'll also get you that list of all the different questions
and you can add more stuff there, too. I don't mind.
So are you guys have an awesome night?
Hopefully this is helpful and I'll catch you guys tomorrow.
All right. Thanks, Mike.
Take care. You're so welcome. Take care.